Bulwark Takes - MTG's Revenge Tour?

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

Tim Miller joins MSNBC’s Katy Tur Reports to talk about Trump’s lawless power plays and why neither side is backing down. They also discuss Marjorie Taylor Greene’s attacks on her own party—torching GOP leadership, blaming “weak men,” and accidentally(?) helping Democrats in the shutdown fight. Watch Katy Tur Reports on MSNBC: https://www.msnbc.com/katy-tur-reports

Hey, y'all, a couple hours ago, I was on MSNBC with Katie Turr, and I was in a different shirt, so the shirt's going to change half a foot to this video. But, you know, you guys, we know each other at this point. It's fine. I can be in different shirts. I was just thinking when I was doing school pickup about the conversation we were having. And, you know, it was this very, it started as this very kind of DC focus. been reviewing Jake Sherman is great covering the hill on Punch Bowl about like what are the

political implications of the shutdown and how could the shutdown come to an end and how are negotiations happening on the hill and this is like how the shutdown has usually been covered traditionally right it's like one party wants to shut down the government because they're trying to get something or because they're trying to decrease spending you know what they're they have leverage on it there are other people that have specific asks and like the question is can they come to the table you know will Obama negotiate with bainer Like, this is, you know, with the Freedom Caucus guys negotiate with Paul Ryan. Like, that was the history of these things, at least the modern history of them.

This one's a little different, right? Because the House and Senate Democrats do have a substantive ask, you know, which is these Obamacare subsidies. And that's like the stated reason for the shutdown. but nobody's negotiating they don't really have a counterparty for that and I think most of us believe that like well that's the stated reason for the shutdown like the unstated reason for the shutdown is the Democrats trying to use any lever of power they have to demonstrate they're going to stand up against this authoritarian lawless administration this regime and and so within that context it's kind of like well you know is so and so in the Connecticut's third district who's vulnerable because of health care stuff like that kind of stuff right like can you get the moderate faction from the other party to agree with you like there is no Republican moderate faction the only Republican speaking out about this is Marjorie-tail Green right and so I it's just the wrong prism to look at this through right

like eventually it will have to come to an end eventually there'll be some kind of negotiation but Like, what's happening right now is power politics. And Trump is trying to do power politics by demonstrating that he can fund whoever he wants, whenever he wants. He's going to be lawless. He doesn't care about the shutdown. He'll just fund the troops and not fund these other projects. He'll fire government workers. You know, so, like, there are real consequences for the government workers that are being laid off.

And that's, like, serious. So, like, I don't want to ignore that. But, like, from the political standpoint, Like, Trump didn't care about them. Trump doesn't feel any political pressure. House and Senate Republicans are just going to do whatever Trump wants. So if Trump doesn't feel any political pressure, they don't feel any political pressure. And then the Democrats, again, their motivations, stated motivation is to get this Obamacare subsidy extended.

But like their real political incentives are to demonstrate they're fighting, to be tough, to stand up to the administration, to draw attention to the fact that healthcare premiums are going up, prices are going up, there are illegal federal troops in the streets of your cities, menacing and harassing people, even in U.S. citizens, right? Like, that's what they want to get out of it. And so looked at through that prism, right, where it's not really about the policy negotiation, but it's about the broader power politics. Neither side is incentivized to stop this anytime soon. So the thing that we'll have to happen to get this to stop is like some actual negative impact on people's lives, you know, I mean, whether that is the unpaid workers,

working in airports, you know, causing flight nightmares and travel nightmares and all the downstream negative effects of that, you know, and there are a variety of other things that it could be. And that will come to a head eventually, for sure. And, you know, we'll see how things shake out. But in the meantime, I think that the Democrats see this as a political win, which I'll explain in this clip. And the Republicans aren't really incentivized to crack for any, given the fact that

Donald Trump doesn't really care about the impact on people. So that's where we're at. Stick around for a little bit more. I just going to want to contextualize that. I'll be in my blue denim shirt on the other side of this. Subscribe to the feed. We'll be seeing you guys soon. Marjorie Taylor Green continue on this media blitz, Tim,

where she is torching the Republican Party. She's torching leadership. She's talking about prices. Well, they even brought prices down, she says. She's talking about the health care subsidies. She's saying leadership didn't inform her or any of the members that they were not going to extend those health care subsidies. She's talking about how Republican men

are weak and they're afraid of strong Republican women like her? I mean, she's not, and she's been doing this for days now, she's not backing down. Is she an effective voice for the Democrats at this

point? I mean, absolutely. I've got no notes for her. Everything she says seems pretty, pretty spot on. And look, this is a political environment where the Democrats, I just, I don't think the Democrats are concerned about the midterms for next year. And the midterms are so far from now.

And like, does anybody even remember when Elon Musk was in the government? That was like four months ago. The midterms are 15 months from now. So much can happen between now and then. And so I think the Democrats' political calculation is can they demonstrate that they're up for fighting this administration and keep their base happy? And I think that we're saying that the answer to that is yes. The base wants them to fight on this point. And then secondly, can they kind of win for once some media cycles against Donald Trump, who just has dominated them in the media narrative throughout his whole administration pretty much. And I think the answer to that is yes, in part because of the health care issues, a poignant one,

in part because Marjorie Taylor Green is doing them a solid, dropping some truth bombs and getting a lot of attention in the way that Donald Trump has been known to get attention in the past. And I think in part because the administration's actions, you know, with the masked agents in the streets, which is also getting a lot of attention. So I just think for a confluence of reasons, the political incentives for the Democrats right now are not to negotiate or to come to the table in any way. And as you mentioned at the top, and as Jake did, Trump's just doing whatever he wants, funding the things that he wants to fund. So I don't see a ton of incentives either for this thing ending. I will throw out there that maybe Palm Springs might be a more up-to-date cultural reference as far as time. movies. That was a couple years ago. Groundhog Day is about 25 years old now, but, you know,

I'm just doing my best to keep y'all young. The fact that I can barely remember it, or even who was in it, means that it's not as resident as a cultural... Andy Sandberg? Andy Sandberg was great. Sure, great. It's not Bill Murray, and it's not Groundhog's Day. So there. Thank you.