Bulwark Takes - OOPS! GOP Hypocrites Caught on Tape

Episode Date: August 27, 2025

Tim Miller joins Nicolle Wallace on MSNBC's Deadline: White House to take on Donald Trump’s attempted firing of Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook, the rise of Bill Pulte as a MAGA enforcer inside government, Trump’s mounting autocratic incentives, the hypocrisy of GOP leaders on election control, and new revelations around Alex Acosta and the Epstein files.

Hey, everybody, Tim Miller from the bulwark here. I had another hour with my friend Nicole Wallace. I was a little kind of feisty today. I was a little spunky. Maybe feisty is wrong word. I was a little bit of a troublemaker. I made reference to what might happen if Nicole broke bad and went with Donald Trump. So you can get to watch our reaction to that.

That counterfactual. But we covered a lot of super important stuff, including this Lisa Cook attempted firing from the Fed Board of Governors. And I really leaned in on something I talked about on the podcast, too, but I wanted to get into more of, which is this Bill Pulte character inside the government who is doing a Laura Lumer, but from inside the government, trying to target foes of Donald Trump to get inside his good graces and how that was the origin of Lisa Cook getting pushed out essentially or attempted to be pushed out based on some alleged issue with her mortgages. I just, I think it's very telling and I think that it is an important indication of where things are going with this administration and what the incentives are and what we can expect to see more of. So I think learning about Bill Pultzies is important. We also hit on the redistricting stuff. I give a little love for Mike Pence. We talk about Alex Acosta and the Epstein files because we're not distracted.

We're going to talk about that. It's a great combo. There are some other folks around too who are pretty good. So stick around for that. wallace me cadre of other panelists and subscribe to this feed because i got a bunch of other shit coming for you we'll see you soon well he says a lot of things tim so i don't know that he i mean i think he says things with confidence that have no mooring to reality he confidently talks about windmills and bleach inside one's lungs so i i understand that what he says he says with confidence

but i think he said some pretty stupid and insane things with the same degree of confidence that I heard today. So I guess what I want to press you on is how much these fights fuel are sort of drafted off the fight that came before and then motivated by the fight ahead. I think Tyler makes an important point about this as part of a sweep of retribution that includes the law firms, the universities, and John Bolton. I think it's interesting that the capitulators wince and cringe when they become part of a democracy and autocracy story. But to Tyler Page's reporting, every person that doesn't go to court and fight the illegality of his conduct makes it easier for him to take more illegal retributive action.

And I wonder how you see this move against Lisa Cook. It's definitely an autocracy story. Look, and I think it's important to kind of step back and go through the process of how this came to be. You know, they, as mentioned, but my co-panalysts, like, obviously a lot of the stems from Trump's frustration with the Fed, the fact that he wants interest rates lower, whether that or not that's in his interest, I think that some economists would dispute, but that's what he wants. And so that is what's at the core of this. But then how do you get to Lisa Cook? Like, what happens here? Like, how is she the Fed Board governor? I mean, it's, I guess, important to note that as a black woman, she can be sort of pinned as a DEI target or something. And so I think that's one reason. But then you look at the process and there's this guy, Bill Pulte. Bill Pulte is the head of the federal housing and finance agency.

So I had to look down and look at that because this is not somebody that's usually a public figure, the head of the federal housing and finance agency. Well, within this little random agency in the government, like he's running his own Cash Patel enemies list. And he's referred now Adam Schiff, Tish James, and Lisa Cook. to the DOJ, you know, with essentially paperwork accusations of paperwork crimes related to their mortgages. Like, it's important to say that none of them have been charged with anything.

And so, like, that is how this comes to pass. Like, this is death of Stalin's stuff. You're some random apart check, some random part of the government that wants to get in the autocrats' good graces. And so he starts going after, you know, the witches and the dissidents inside the administration. to get a pat on the head from Trump, and who knows, maybe he'll be at one of these fawning cabinet meetings in two or three years.

And, like, that's what happens. And so the people who speak the truth or who at least give their view, their honest view, like Lisa Cook doesn't want to be what the rates should be, or people would speak the truth like the Air Force Chief of Staff who got pushed out because he had said that he thought that the administration was too focused on China versus other threats, like kind of an anodyne thing

or the intelligence officials have pushed out because they just said the truth, that Venezuela wasn't invading us. You know, if you're in government, if you're a government service work, you know, if you're in public service and you're just doing your job, you can be targeted by like these random hacks who, you know, see like getting scalps as a way to advance in MAGA. And like, that incentive structure is awful. And it is a hallmark of not a democracy or a federal system, but of, you know, what you see

in Banana Republic. Tyler, made the point of all of Trump's victories in court, and it's true, a lot of authority does rest with the president and in the executive branch. But what is your sense, Tim, in terms of the lawsuit that Abby Lowell filed today? Look, I mean, I'm not the Andrew Weissman to tell you about how that's going to go. I'll tell you this, he's lost a bunch, too. And there's a great New York Times story this week about how the DOJ has impaneled three different grand juries against a woman who is protesting against ICE. They went to target her for going after, you know, for some inappropriate behavior related to, you know, going after the cops at this protest. And it had gone from a felony and other marked intent or misdemeanor.

So, like, there's, there is, Trump has executive, as broad executive authority. In this case, you know, has the only, like the letter of the law is that he can only fire Lisa Cook with cause, is this alleged having two prime residences on your mortgage, a cause for being pushed out of your job as a fed governor? I mean, I wouldn't think so. I don't exactly know, you know, what judges will say and what folks are going to say. But I think if you look at this, I mean, a judge, I guess approved the John Bolton raid, for example. We don't know on what grounds yet. We don't know on what basis.

So Trump is going to get leeway. Trump's put a lot of MAG and judges in there. But he's had a lot of L's on this sort of stuff too, on immigration issues in particular. So, I mean, I think that remains to be seen. I think it's important to kind of, you know, continue to fight this stuff in the courts. And at some level, delay is a victory against Trump,

just as Trump used. delay in courts as a victory for himself in the past. I mean, that same tactic could be used against him. You know, Tim, I keep thinking of all the control he had over COVID, and it's why he loses reelection. Like, Trump thinks he wants to be in charge of big consequential stuff, but when he does, he does such an incompetent job with those things, that it hurts him politically. And I mean, there's sort of a bare political analysis where he's better served with someone to blame. And it's the same argument for having Democrats in control of Congress, that he's better served if he doesn't own anything. Right now, Trump, MAGA, Republicans own all branches of government. And I wonder

if this is this sort of thing that you wake up after everyone in America sees you as solely responsible for the cost of everything, the price of everything, the inability to buy anything that used to be. I mean, the prices are already going up on everyone out doing back to school shopping. It's already seeing the impact of Donald Trump's economy and it's terrible. What is your sense of the buyer's remorse they could end up experiencing right around

the time of the midterms? I agree at that assessment. I don't think it's in Trump's nature, right? I think that he's a bully. He wants to have powers that he can intimidate people and that is kind of an end in itself for him. But politically speaking, it seems to me that having

Jerome Powell is a boogeyman that he smears something that he's also good at. is probably a better political place to be in than what could be an economic calamity if the Fed independence is completely obliterated, which is up the possible trajectory that we're on with this is one step to it. So I agree that assessment. At some level, we could say it's about a lot of issues, DeCole, like if Trump had just gulfed and renamed the Gulf of Mexico, the Gulf of America and, you know, done one or two

other things right now, his approval ratings would probably be better than having done everything. I don't know that the actual policy, but maybe he doesn't care about that. Last night, the House Oversight Committee announced that that person, Donald Trump's former Labor Secretary, Alex Acosta, will appear voluntarily he has not been subpoenaed, before

the panel on September 19th, as part of their investigation into the Epstein case. Acosta, as the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Florida, reached a secret non-prosecution agreement with Jeffrey Epstein, who instead pleaded guilty to state charges in the state

of Florida involving a single underage victim. He served 13 months in a Palm Beach County Jail where he was allowed to leave almost daily through a work release program and have his own private security detail. This is from 2018. Facing a 53-page federal indictment, Jeffrey Epstein could have ended up in federal prison for the rest of his life, but on the morning of the breakfast meeting between then U.S. Attorney Alex Acosta and Jeffrey Epstein lawyer Jay Lefkowitz, a deal was struck. Not only would Epstein served just 13 months in the county jail, but the deal called a non-prosecution agreement essentially shut down an ongoing FBI probe into whether there were more victims than other powerful people who took part in Epstein's sex crimes, according to Miami-Herald examination of thousands of emails, court documents, and FBI records. The pact required Epstein to plead guilty to two prostitution charges in state court. Jeffrey Epstein and four of his accomplices named in the agreement received immunity from all those federal criminal charges. But even more unusual, the deal included wording that granted immunity to quote any potential co-conspirators who were

also involved in Jeffrey Epstein's crimes. As part of the arrangement, Acosta agreed, despite a federal law of the contrary, that the deal would be kept from the victims. Tim, how does Alex Acosta end up in Trump's cabinet after this? Well, it wasn't exactly a competitive category. I think. I think Trump was scraping the bottom of the barrel for a couple of these positions. And you know how Trump is. Nicole, if you came out right now and said, you know, the scales have fallen out from my eyes, I'm going to put on a red hat.

Trump might make you his press secretary next year. So, you know, I think that he is very amenable. I doubt it. I think you want. I'm just saying, that's Trump. If you, if you suck up to him, he'll go for it. So I think that that is probably the simple answer to the Alex Acosta question, how he got in the cabinet.

I think, look, Alex being in his cabinet does tie Trump to this story in a way that's unflattering. But I think that probably what I worry about is that his voluntary decision to testify is because, like, the questions that people would have of him and of that plea deal, which, in retrospect, and based on everything I've read, just looks unbelievably shameful and misguided and who knows maybe corrupt. But that doesn't really, none of that has to do with Trump, right? Like the fact that Trump picked him for Labor Secretary, you know, is a bad, as bad optics, for sure. But like the Trump, the cover-up part of this about Trump's relationship with Epstein and what may or may not be in those FBI files that FBI agents flagged for Pam Bondi, who then flagged it for Trump, that now they're suppressing, Alex at Consta is not going to have anything to say about that. So in some ways, I think this might be something where like they feel like they're throwing some chum in the water, you know, that that does not, you know, directly address Trump's actual vulnerability on this, if that makes sense. It does. I mean, for me, I feel like the Trump question has been answered by the Trump cabinet who confirmed in multiple news organizations that Trump's name appears in the Epstein files a thousand times. I mean, that's the answer to the Trump piece.

What I don't understand is how the MAGABase, which is so upset about the cover-up, the Epstein conspiracy, again, foments on the right. And it is a conspiracy theory about a cover-up that spans multiple administrations, Democratic and Republican presidents to keep things secret. And I just want to read this line again. Epstein and four of his accomplices named in the agreement, received immunity from all federal criminal charges. So the feds dropped it, right? And then we've had Republicans, Democrats, and Republicans in charge of the federal government. But even more unusual, the deal included wording that granted

immunity, quote, to any potential co-conspirators who were also involved in Epstein's crimes. I want to read one more piece from this story, because this is, if you listen to Joe Rogan's early episodes about this, it's about, you know, I don't know, what is it called, gigabytes and gigabytes of videos and evidence. So here's the evidence piece. only would Epstein serve 13 months in county jail, but the deal called a non-prosecution agreement shut down an ongoing FBI investigation to whether there were more victims and other powerful people. The Miami Herald examined thousands of emails, court documents, and FBI records. So somewhere in a deal that Acosta does, there are thousands of emails and court documents.

I wonder turning those over will be part of Acosta's testimony. You would, I mean, again, that goes way back, and whether Trump would be involved with those, I don't know. And conceivably, I guess, at least with Virginia Jewfrey, because of Mara Lago, and that was across his region at the time. So, our district, rather. So I think, potentially. So, yeah, and I think there are questions about that. And a lot of weird coincidences and objects for the conspiracy theorists to chew over with Trump's first cabinet. You know, Bill Barr has some connections there as well.

through his father. So, you know, and I think that all of that would be interesting. And I don't, and I think that it will give fodder for the MAGA base. I just don't, I don't think that, I guess my point is, I don't think it costs would be volunteering to do this if he was going to say something bad about Donald Trump. What this is really about is an effort for the federal government to take over the way we conduct elections in this country.

It is a solution in search of a problem. This is all about consolidating power, a national. power grab to take away the voices from our local elections officials and our state elections officials. You think about the way that we've been doing elections in this country for over two centuries, the states have always been primary. They've been the principal entities when it comes to conducting elections across this country. This would consolidate, federalize, nationalize elections in this country and Washington, D.C. And that is not something when the American American people find out about it that they're going to be for.

But what they want is a federal takeover of the elections. I do not want a federal takeover of our election system. I oppose it. How about them apples? That was Mitch McConnell, Marco Rubio, has like 11 jobs in the Trump cabinet. Joni Ernst and John Thune. Railing, railing against exactly what Donald Trump is doing right now. She was on the other foot.

Republicans were attacking in 2021 and 2022 voting rights legislation championed by Democrats. We're back with Nick and Tim. Tim, it's amazing that none of those guys thinks that like we have the tape or I guess more amazing that none of them cares that all the principles, all the positions, everything is disposable at the altar of what Trump wants, a guy with a 35 percent approval rating. For one second there, I got my hopes up that that John Thune clip was for this week. And I was like, there's John, John Thune is back? No, we don't, I don't think he's still on vacation.

I think he's still on vacation, actually. No, these guys, like, look. For the Edstein files somewhere. Yeah, I mean, they, I don't even think they get humiliated by it anymore is really the sad part. I just think that they've accepted and rationalized that this is what they need to do for survival, just go along with whatever Donald Trump wants, even if it is. is in stark contrast with everything they've argued for before.

It's the one thing, and obviously we've had all of our disagreements to call with Mike Pence over the years, but it's one thing that's been refreshing about Mike Pence, you know, obviously January 6th, but then continuing to do it over the next four or five years that he is out there. I thought that was interesting in Nick's reporting that Pence being from Indiana, you know, maybe he's having some conversations behind the scenes, I don't know, or maybe he's loyal to him that that has an impact. I think that's interesting, and he was out.

criticizing the tariffs this week. You know, so I think that, like, Mike Pence is, like, existence is a mirror up against these guys, that that's what they would be saying, if it was not for the fact that they've decided to sell their salt for whatever power or position they have with Donald Trump. And I don't think that, unfortunately, we're going to see any of them change unless they, like Mike Pence, you know, get pushed out.