Bulwark Takes - Rogan Plays Footsie With Anti-Semites, Tim Pool Skatepark Fiasco

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

Sam Stein and Will Sommer take on controversies shaking the podcasting world. Joe Rogan and Theo Von sparked outrage by platforming antisemitic conspiracies, and Tim Pool’s skate park dreams crash in a Cracker Barrel confrontation.

Hey guys, what's up? It's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at The Bulwark, joined by Will Sommer, who is fresh off his first edition of False Flag, what is widely considered the most critical newsletter of our time. The reviews are pouring in. The New York Times calls it indispensable. The Wall Street Journal said it is... I won't keep going. All right, Will, thanks for joining us as always subscribe to the feed if you're watching this i want to talk about this uh first edition because um i'm jewish and um this one's about maga bro podcasters playing footsie with anti-semites it piqued my interest for obvious reasons uh I guess I'm a little bit nervous about what's happening. And I don't know why it's happening. And maybe you can explain what the hell is going

on here. Yeah. So I mean, these podcasts we're talking about, I mean, we're talking about Joe Rogan, Theo Vaughn. These are like really serious podcasts. They have big audiences. This is the Roganiverse. And I feel like if there was one lesson from 2024, it was that, you know, however much, however influential you think these podcasts are, you're underestimating it. And so now this idea that they have, you know, increasingly over just this month, started having some anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists on as guests and people who will who are not hiding it. I mean, they're on the show saying – Who are these people?

Let's start with that. Sure. So one of them is a guy named Ian Carroll who has kind of like a mechanics mustache, kind of a greasy mustache kind of guy. And he has sort of emerged on the scene. Why is the mustache important? I'm kind of trying to situate a sense of – Set the scene? I appreciate that.

Yeah, that he kind of looks like uh like a gen z type of guy you know gotcha and you know he's sort of emerged on the scene out of nowhere which has provoked conspiracy theories of its own and are they well just that he's you know uh an fbi plant or whatever uh but that he's a he's a and you know him going on roger doesn't help is he a fault is he jewish and this is all false well i mean it how deep does it go um and so in his case he's sort of a like he's kind of like the gen z tiktok conspiracy theorist and he kind of hits you with the like hey what's up fam like you know jews did 9 11 um and so stuff like that um and and so so he went on he went on rogan and promoted a lot of like epstein stuff saying that you know

he said jeffrey epstein's a stain on the jewish people um and so this is kind of heavy duty stuff i think that's fair yeah i'll take that one i'll let you handle that one he's a stain on all people but because he is jewish yes it's not great um where how do these people get into rogan's orbit i'm sort of curious about that like this guy you say burst out onto the scene, clearly like he's viral enough, has enough of an audience that Joe Rogan's like, we need to book that guy. But why? Yeah. I mean, well, look, I mean, Joe Rogan loves conspiracy theories himself.

I mean, sometimes they're pretty harmless, like about UFOs and, uh, you know, other times, you know, he, I mean, he clearly loves these guys. I mean, he's chopping it up with them. He's referencing years of their work going back. So this isn't like a guy they just plopped in front of him. He's a fan. And then Theo Vaughn is the other one. I was talking to someone who is a big Theo Vaughn fan. I like Theo Vaughn. But they were very disappointed in the platforming decisions that he made what what

happened there sure so theobon yeah once on the real world now this kind of like affable you know i hate to say dimwit but like sort of like like he sort of plays it maybe he's not he's like he's the dimwit who's actually smart right yeah i think that's a good way to put it he kind of like an idiot savant perhaps right he's like i'm just a simpleton and I just actually had a really interesting and thoughtful and insightful comment. It's like, oh, yeah, Theo, good job. I think that's a good way to put it. So he had on Candace Owens who is sort of a right-wing talker YouTube personality. Yes.

Who has become – That one didn't just pop up on the scene. Right. And so she has become increasingly – That one popped off the scene. And so last year, actually a year ago today as we're recording this she got the boot from the daily wire uh ben shapiro's company over her like really like she was getting very into anti-semitism basically and so in in this case she goes on theo von and she's saying well israel and the jews are

blackmailing all these american politicians and that's why they control America. I mean this is the kind of stuff that a few years ago – I mean you have to go to Stormfront to find. And now we're finding it on these just like mega popular podcasts. So what's the explanation? I mean I guess in theory this is like, well, we just went through a year or so of them being like, we should just unleash the hounds on free speech. And if you can't take it, get out, you pussy. And then obviously, this is what we've sowed, right? This is exactly the outcome.

But at the same time, though, I think to a person, people probably thought, well, they wouldn't platform anti-Semitism, right? So I don't know. Maybe that's what's happening here. Maybe they just need to be controversial and keep stirring the pot. Well, I have a couple of theories about it. I mean, I think on one hand, it's, you know, a lot of these podcasts, really, their bread and butter was sort of the blue haired SJW outrage of the day, trans issues, various things. And that was how they sort it stood out as like kind of

contrarian or like a little like different right they were common sense but they were just common sense telling it like it is and maybe just raising a few questions here and there about medical science right exactly and so now obviously a lot of that dei type stuff is on the retreat um and so i and and it's sort of the uh so i think they're looking for something that will continue to get attention. And the reality is it certainly did get attention. I mean I wrote about it. A lot of people were outraged about it. Yeah, what's the – so there's backlash obviously to this.

It's interesting. Yeah, a lot of particularly Jewish Republicans were offended by these appearances. Jeremy Boring, the now former CEO of the Daily Wire, came out and said, you know, after the Ian Carroll interview, I thought, I mean, he was he took it like very seriously, which was interesting to me. And he said, you know, this is a terrible day for American Jews. You know, this is like a black mark. I'm paraphrasing here, but essentially this is a this is a catastrophe. This idea that this anti-Semitism is getting such a wide audience. You know, I'll speak sort of on a personal level,

but I kind of in, in agreement, honestly, I just, um, I guess it doesn't seem, if you look at it from afar, you're like, well, what's the harm is it? They're just having a conversation. Doesn't mean people have to listen to it. But I think the platforming is itself a problem because once you inject the stuff into the mainstream, once you have the biggest podcasters in the world, platforming this stuff, it invites more people to think exactly like this. And, you know, obviously anti-Semitism has been around forever. But we saw a version of this, like, with the vaccine stuff, right?

It was forever. It was like, well, don't platform it. Don't platform it. Don't give it all. And then it started getting more and more platforms. And now we're in a place where vaccine skepticism is fairly mainstream. So I think there is proof to the concept that if you give things platforms, they will take grips among certain people. Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I think once these ideas are sort of injected into the discourse, it becomes a story about, you know, censorship or, you know. Right. And that's the flip side is like if they were to say, you know,

if people come down hard on Rogan, all he's going to say is what? You're trying to censor a conversation. Yeah, we're just asking questions. And particularly, you're trying to stifle discussion about Jeffrey Epstein or what have you, or Israel. And it sort of gets away from the original topic. Can we talk a little bit about Epstein and divert a little bit? But there's obviously a lot of anger happening on the MAGA right over the fact that these files have not been released. I know you wrote about what happened with Bondi and Loomer, but what's the status here? Are they just dropping or are they still pounding away at Bondi for how she handled it?

Yeah, I mean, this is an interesting one. I mean, so before the – like right at the start of the administration, Pam Bondi said, I have the client list on my desk. So you would think – and all the genuine Epstein experts who are around say there is no client list or they'd be very surprised if there was. So now she's saying, well, I got the client list right here. And so you're like, oh, boy. And the anticipation here is that it's – a lot of Trump supporters have been basically led to believe this is going to say like oprah tom hanks i mean it's going to be this kind of like yeah oprah i was surprised too that's going to be your reaction when the files come out yeah oprah yeah and so they think it's

going to be all you know you see you see these the fake flight manifest circulating and it's like, that guy would have been eight years old with – that guy wouldn't have been palling around with Jeffrey Epstein. Some of these don't compute to me. Yeah, and some like some liberal 20-something. So they do this. Like Timothee Chalamet. It's like, no, that doesn't make sense. And so, of course, the binder – so basically this fascinating thing where these right-wing influencers were going to the White House on an unrelated thing. And Pam Bondi reportedly was like, this is my chance to get some clout. She does this.

As far as what's going on with it now, I mean she said, Cash, I want the FBI files on my desk less than 24 hours from now. And that was two weeks ago at this point so you know as far as we know i mean i kind of think can i speculate a little bit it's an interesting speculation yes of course so so i think your speculation my speculation is and this is maybe like a little like too like 5d chess just don't get us sued that's all well speculate responsibly butibly. But I think the Trump administration is, and as we're talking here, the JFK files are supposed to come out today. Right, right. This is, just to be clear,

4.30pm. We've been promised the JFK files today. It's getting a little late. Go ahead. And so I think the JFK files are kind of like a distraction from the Epstein thing in that, like, because Trump's saying, you know, the stuff people are most excited about is the JFKk files and that might be a generational divide um as well where i think perhaps boomers this is kind of like the jfk assassination looms larger but i think there

is kind of this thing where it's like well i don't know we do have the jfk files you know we can drop trump has never never been fully committal on the epstein stuff well why would he be he's friends with epstein yeah and so the idea that he it was always like yeah we're gonna release jfk mlk rfk and we're like and yeah we're going way back the teapot dome we're blowing it all up and keep going sir uh and so yeah but so i i guess it's the whole sort of like do they just fall for it and like does it go away because this has happened several times now and And so, yeah, but so I guess it's the whole sort of like, do they just fall for it? And does it go away? Because this has happened several times now.

And Dave Portnoy was talking about it always seems to be a shit show when they promise some Epstein information doesn't materialize. But in this case, Loomer seemed really aggrieved and angry and was on like a real rampage against Bondi. I guess at some point you just tie her out and you just leave it but um is that is there any sense that that's happened that they're just ready to move on i mean i think i think they're still right they're still there and i think that like you know if another week passes or something i think we'll get some more outrage i mean you know one of the the how much outrage can you continue to muster over this it's like three weeks is that is that sustainable one of the you know, one of the complications is after the original Pam Bondi release, one of these right-wing figures said this was a huge debacle. For one thing, Trump's name was in the files. Did he not know?

There's literally video evidence out there. Come on, man. You got to keep up. All right. Last bit. Tim Pool. Yes. You wrote about this. Skate park in West Virginia. You got to keep up. All right. Last bit. Tim Pool. Yes. You wrote about this.

Skate park in West Virginia. Very hip. Very cool. But it's not actually going well. So explain exactly what's happening. Yeah. So this has been a passion project of mine for a little while. So Tim Pool, very popular right-wing YouTuber.

Yes. You might know him from the beanie. The beanie. Yes. The emblematic beanie. And he has some compounds out in West Virginia and Maryland. And he's also very into skateboarding. And so two years ago, he – there was a – basically it's like a patch of – it's just like concrete.

It's like a concrete slab in this town called Martinsburg, West Virginia that he lives near. And the skaters there had – it was basically abandoned property that they skated on. Tim Pool said, cool, I'll offer $20,000 so we can have a contest. They said, oh, Tim Pool, we want nothing to do with you. What kind of contest are you talking about? Who's the better skater? Who's like, who does the

sickest ollies or whatever? I'm going to get roasted by a skateboarding team. I'm not pretending to know anything about this shit. So they said, Tim, we don't want to associate our skateboarding with you. And so then he secretly went and buys the land. And now I will say, to his credit, he sort of seemed to be more interested in co-opting the local skate scene. Because he's like, I'm going to build the sickest skate park ever.

You guys are all welcome. And now cut to now where he says i'm surrendering the skate park to the city you know the city wants it or not no and so he claims anti-timpool vandals were destroying it and so basically the city took it over the city says they don't know what he's talking about and i i guess the final beat here is that he um he claims he was accosted a cracker barrel he said he was going to get catfish. And he walked in and someone said, you stole my skate park. So, look, I mean, things are heating up.

Do we know which Cracker Barrel? I assume the Martinsburg Cracker Barrel. Did you call up the Martinsburg Cracker Barrel? I should have. I should have. Was there a showdown at your Cracker Barrel? Yeah, I would call them up and just say, one, do you serve catfish? Then we would, you know, that could just break the story wide open right there.

Two, are you aware of a man wearing a beanie who got accosted in your Cracker Barrel? And if so, can you provide any videotape? That is a wild story. I, you know, Cracker Barrel, I don't hand on Cracker Barrel. I'm all for it. But I've never seen someone get accosted over a skate park. It is just, it's just funny. It's a funny phrase and when he's saying, and why do I

know? What is the problem here? Someone accosted me at the Cracker Barrel. You expect someone maybe about 40 years older to be saying that. Again, I'm not going to hand out Cracker Barrel. I like the chicken and dumplings. All right, Will Summer doing God's work. The New York

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