Bulwark Takes - Scott Pelley Says the Quiet Part Out Loud

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

Sam Stein and Lauren Egan look at a rare moment when a veteran journalist like Scott Pelley publicly defends the press. They discuss Pelley's warning about the rising threats to journalism and free speech, and why this moment feels different.

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to improve your dog's health. Just add a scoop of rough greens. Hey guys, it's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at The Bullwork, and I am joined by Lauren Egan, who is author of the Opposition News newsletter, which came out over the weekend. I don't know why we did it on Memorial Day weekend. I'm sorry.

I asked for a day, Sunday off. You know that I was angling for that. Well, maybe that's why I made you do it. Anyways, it was a great one. It was about Substack and how everyone in democratic politics seems to be decamping towards that platform, which we love publishing publisher of the bulwark as well, but we're not going to be talking about that. We're going to be talking about Scott Pelley and his commencement address at Wake Forest University and a few other tangentially related items about institutions under attack by the Trump administration. Before we get to that, as always, subscribe to our YouTube

feed. We really appreciate it and subscribe to our newsletter feed to sub stacks where it's at Alright Lauren you start Scott Pelley Wake Forest gives this kind of impassioned speech Doesn't actually mention Trump by name, but it's obviously about Trump. So yeah, it's pretty clear I don't know. I grew up watching Scott Pelley. And to me, he's just always like this super, like, you know, even handed, like even toned reporter. And that was a pretty, he doesn't mention Trump by name, but it's, it's really clear. It's obvious. It's really obvious. And he's not someone who sort of like overstates things or since sensationalizes things. And that's like his whole reputation as a journalist. So I found this speech to be pretty interesting because he's someone when he's sort of raising the alarm bell like that and saying, our institutions, journalism, academics, like everything's under attack.

Like my ears perk up when it's coming from him. For sure. Why don't we listen to what he had to say. This is just a portion of it and then I have some other elements of the speech that I'll read out loud but here's Scott Pelley at Wake Forest over the weekend delivering the commencement address. But in this moment, this moment, this morning, our sacred rule of law is under attack. Journalism is under attack. Universities are under attack. Freedom of speech is under attack.

And insidious fear is reaching through our schools, is reaching through our schools, our businesses, our homes, and into our private thoughts, the Lincoln's phrase, of the people, by the people, for the people, then why are we afraid to speak? Okay, so yeah, I mean, you're right. It's obviously about Trump. And it was kind of surprising to see Scott Pelley do it because he has this reputation. But I guess the context here is kind of important too, which is that he is with 60 Minutes and 60 Minutes is in this incredibly difficult position. I don't even want to say difficult. Like basically

the journalists, they're all mad because the company that owns 60 Minutes Paramount is trying to settle a frivolous lawsuit where Trump sued them for, what was it? They like edited Kamala Harris's interview transcripts? Yeah, it was right. Like all these news stations enter, for the most part, edit out these, edit these interviews. And yeah, they're pissed that they edited Harris's interview, even though that's standard practice and yeah it's it's pretty silly. And for like tens of millions of dollars and maybe even billions I can't even keep track but so Scott Pelley works at this institution that's under attack and it's clear from just the tone that he's pissed about it he's angry about it and this is you know he says first make the truth-seekers live in, sue the journalists for nothing, then send masked agents to abduct a college student, a writer of her college paper,

who wrote an editorial supporting Palestinian rights and sent her to a prison in Louisiana and charged her with nothing. Then move to destroy law firms that stand up for the rights of others. With that done, power can rewrite history with grotesque false narratives. They can make heroes criminals and criminals heroes.

They can change the definition of the words we use to describe reality. I mean, it's dark. Like that's some dark shit right there. Uh, and it, it's to hear him say it, uh, is remarkable. And I think like we can talk about all these stories, I feel like in silos, but to hear him say it and to tie it all together like that in one speech is like, you read that or you listen to it and yeah, it's dark and it's alarming and it's terrifying. And he said something about, he said he tried to put in historical context in the speech. He said the Wake Forest class of 1861 did not choose their time of calling, the class of 1941 did not choose the class of 1968 did not choose

history chose them so he's putting this this moment in in the context of the civil war world war ii in vietnam um which i guess if you step back you're like holy shit um maybe that's over certain things but maybe not uh yeah not in a time of, but he seems to be comparing the three. I feel like that's always been kind of the hard, this hard thing about Trump. It's like, just how much trouble are we in? And it's like, you know, yeah, it's not war. It's not something that maybe you're going to like see overnight, but it's kind of like this like, you know, and maybe that makes it worse, right?

It's like, yeah, it's long and slow and you sort of, yeah, you're, you're the frog in the boiling water. Yeah. So we had two stories that happened since then, that kind of get to this. One is that this morning, two things happened. One is that the Trump administration announced that it's going to try to go after the remaining federal contracts for Harvard University, a hundred million dollars left. I, I'm shocked that they had anything left because last week I giggled and I'm sorry, I shouldn't be giggling

It's not funny. But last week they went after the foreign students who study there I said they can no longer get visas to study and then this morning they had I went after a hundred million dollars That's federal contracts. And then the other thing is that this morning we got word that NPR is suing President Trump Over his executive order that would end federal funding for NPR and PBS, saying it's a violation of their first amendment rights. Quote, the president has no authority in the constitution to take such actions, the lawsuit says. On the contrary, the power of the person is reserved to Congress.

So you have Harvard sued over the foreign student visa thing too. You have two lawsuits now from these institutions pushing back. thing too. You have two lawsuits now from these institutions pushing back. I'll just say it does seem like you're beginning to see a more forceful and quick, I should note, pushback from these institutions. The Harvard lawsuit was like within a matter of hours. Yeah, clearly it's like not what we first saw with the big law firms where it's like, oh, well, we'll figure out how to make a deal and like just get on with things. Yeah, the, yeah, it's changing. And I don't know. It's like the Trump administration is doing basically everything that they can

to destroy these institutions that they view as like working on behalf of the democratic party, or is they seen aligned with the left? Um, and it's not just verbal attacks, right? And I think there's just sort of like a realization that, um, playing along or trying to figure out sort of like a middle that playing along or trying to figure out sort of like, a middle ground with him like doesn't really work. And I don't know, I feel like I feel like there are people who continue to do it. Like we were talking about this with last month, Gretchen Whitmer, right? Their poll today has her at like 63% approval rating in Michigan. Like she's ascendant

and she played along. She went into the Oval Office. She had the famous photo. What was it? Where she's like, Oh God, don't do it. Yeah, but I think that's different than like Harvard, you know, where like that's just seen as like, you know, Harvard can't play along. Like what can they do? They're getting completely eviscerated. Right. I do think people have tried to do it, but it's just, you only just, I think you just get yourself sort of in like more, you know, sticky territory if that's the case. Right.

You appease and then you keep coming after you. All right. Let's do this. Who was your commencement speaker? Mine was Ken Burns. Nice. But it was nice. I heard it was nice. I didn't go to it. You didn't go to your graduation. No, I went to my graduation, but our speaker, like our commencement. No,

that's when I could get my diploma. Um, our commencement speakers spoke the night before, which I'm like, what college student is going to show up the night before? I'm like, what college student is going to show up the night before? People who want to hear Ken Burns. Okay. I mean, I'm sure there's like a YouTube video of it. Did you watch it? No, but now I might go back.

This is like the conversation we had with when Trump went to Alabama and gave the commencement address. Wasn't the actual graduation. And so like, obviously students were doing other things. That's true. That's true. I'm still waiting on my records request from that University of Alabama. Get on it. Okay.

Well, mine was Jeff Immelt. And it was funny because at the time everyone was like, ah, we don't want Jeff Immelt, then all these student forums online are like trash in the pick. And he, he, uh, for a speech he read from the, from the student forums. Yeah. He's like, he's like, he's like, I just, and he's just going on. He was like reading off all the insults of him. It was really, it was really, that's pretty good.

Yeah. I do too. All right, Lauren, thanks so much for doing this. Appreciate it. Everyone subscribe to the opposition newsletter, subscribe to the bulwark on subsocks, subscribe to the bulwark on YouTube. God, a lot of subscribing going on,

but it's worth it and we appreciate it. And we'll talk to you soon. Ever notice your dog slowing down and having health issues and wonder, what can I do to make them better? Well, my friend, add rough greens to your dog's food for 90 days and I guarantee you'll see changes that will amaze you. Greetings, naturopathy Dr. Dennis Black,

inventor of rough greens here, and I invite you to give your pup the rough greens 90 day challenge. In the first 30 days you'll see shinier coats and increased energy. By day 60, your dog will have a stronger immune system, less shedding, improved joint function, all due to the live nutrients that you've added to their diet. And at 90 days, better digestion, reduced inflammation, improved heart health, and you may even have reduced their cancer risk. Fetch your dog a free Jumpstart trial bag today. Go to TryRuffGreens.com. Use promo code TRYRUFF. That's T-R-Y-R-U-F-F. Go to TryRuffGreens.com. Use promo code TRYRUFF. You just cover the shipping. You don't have to change your dog's food to improve your dog's health. Just add a scoop of Ruff Greens.