Bulwark Takes - Sen. Cortez Masto: I Want to Win Votes, Not Go Viral

Episode Date: August 23, 2025

Senator Catherine Cortez Masto joins Lauren Egan to talk about how Democrats can actually win in swing states — and what it will take to beat Donald Trump. From grocery prices to border security, she argues that moderation and voter engagement are the key to victory.

Hey guys, it's Lauren Egan here at the bulwark. And today I have Senator Catherine Cortez Mastow with me. You have to tell me, is it Nevada or Nevada? I feel like I never get it right. First of all, thank you for asking. It is Nevada. It's almost like the little ant, the little bug ant. Remember the A is Nevada.

And you know, as Nevadans, we are very proud. When somebody says it wrong, we have to shout out and tell them. You are the new chair of the moderate Democrats pack, and you're from a swing state, obviously. You've won multiple times. And you've talked a lot about how Democrats need to drop purity tests and kind of like not engage in stuff like defund the police. And I'm curious whether you feel like since the 2024 election, if there's been kind of a shift in the party, whether or not you've heard from folks or kind of coming around more to your theory. of politics, particularly among the more like liberal part of your caucus. Well, let me just say, Lauren, a couple of things.

One, there's enough room for all of us. And if we really are going to focus on and learn from the last election about what voters want, then we should be listening to them. And what I am hearing in my swing state from all of my voters in my rural areas and urban areas who are feeling this kind of chaos and certain anxiety is that they just want common sense policies. They want people focused on lowering their costs, right, and keeping communities safe and making sure they can stay healthy. And if we're doing that as Democrats and reaching out and talking to folks, then we are going to be able to win these elections,

but we've got to show up and we've got to have these conversations. It's not really a difficult thing to understand. It's just it really is a matter of Democrats understanding what voters want in swing states like mine where we actually, if we want to flip the Senate or the House and the Democrats want to expand their map, then they're going to have to pick up swing states like Nevada or a rural red or red states. We have to focus on those voters. Do you think, though, that like the party as a whole needs to recognize that more, particularly folks from bluer states? Because, I mean, I've talked on this on our show before about how earlier this year, Chris Murphy and Adam Schiff introduced an assault weapons ban,

which obviously has no shot of passing with the dynamics on Capitol Hill right now. And so, like, why bother when we're looking at a really competitive Senate map where, you know, you're maybe going to force this issue that Democrats don't really want to have to talk about in, like, a competitive seat in Iowa or North Carolina or Ohio? So how do you kind of think through that and where the party picks it? its moments. And if you think they have to be kind of a little bit more strategic about when you do go and kind of like attack on trying to pass some legislation like gun control, for example, and then maybe it's not right now. Yeah. And no, Lauren, you're right. I think the Democrats are

also learning from the last election. If you look at Democrats who won, they were pretty much the Democrats from the moderate states, right? Because they were focused on what voters want. And I do believe at a national level and the large big Democrats, there's enough room for all of us, but we've got to do no harm to one another. We've got to recognize we also come from a variety of blue states, swing states, red states, purple states, whatever you want to call it. And if we are going to focus together on this fight and call out the power grabbed by this administration or the bad policies of this administration, we also have to talk, be common sense, and talk about the power. the very things that people care about. For a perfect example, is border security. I've been around my state.

I know everybody wants border security. We see the concerns about fentanyl coming into our community crossing the border and the human trafficking and weapons trafficking, all of the above, and making sure there's an orderly process for immigration and people play by the rules. I don't know of any Nevada voter in an urban or rural area that doesn't want that. And so we have to be smart about how we're. we talk about and recognize, yeah, everybody wants a safe community and we should be working towards that. But we also, we can say, yeah, we do want secure borders and we want to make sure

we're funding it to address that criminal element. But we also can say, and we also need comprehensive immigration reform. We need to make sure that dreamers in our community have an opportunity to succeed since they grew up here. They're not hardened criminals. They want to be a part of our economy and future job force, whether they're teachers or attorneys or doctors, I know so many of them, why can't we do both? And just be common sense, because that's what I'm finding voters are. They're not stupid. And they understand both sides of it. And they're just looking for people to get to realize that and work together. So yes, I think part of, and you talked about it earlier, why I have taken on this honorary chair as the Mod Squad as the more

moderate senators is to elevate those voices that are coming from swing states like mine as well as a red states that what voters want. It really is common sense. If we're going to, if we are going to be a backstop to the bad policies of this administration, then we got to stand together and do no harm to one another and really focus on the constituents and the voters and work towards a goal of passing common sense policies that they care about. It's still high prices. I was just in my rural road trip. I was in nine counties in rural Nevada, and I get all over the state in August. It's the same issue that I hear from everyone. The angst and anxiety is out there. They want a lower cost that they see happening in the grocery store. They want safe

communities. It's no different. And so working on a broadband policy that lifts up all of our communities is a good thing. We should still be focused on solving problems. We can do that and also be strategic about fighting back against this administration that is harming this country and in my state in events. I want to talk a little bit about like what you think it means to fight back against Trump right now because there was this, I don't even know what you want to call it, a showdown, a skirmish between you and Senator Cory Booker earlier this summer on the Senate floor where he basically said you were being complicit with an authoritarian president by trying to push through bipartisan policing bills. So talk to me a bit about that

experience and kind of how you think about this moment when voters are constantly, like all we're hearing is that they want their Democratic leaders to quote unquote fight back. That means different things to different people. So I'm curious what that means to you and whether or not you think there is room to work with Republicans right now while Trump is in office or if you feel like you have to resist at sort of every opportunity in every corner, which I think, think was kind of what Booker was arguing on the Senate floor. Well, it goes back to what I said. And it's somebody from a swing state in listening to voters.

We got to win. And if we're going to win, that means we're out talking to our voters and what matters to them. I didn't get elected and reelected in Nevada by just a Democratic base. Republicans supported me. Nonpartisans, 37 percent of the registered voters in Nevada are nonpartisans. There's the independence out there. And so we've got to focus on what they care about. And do they want us to fight back and stand up? Absolutely. And I'm in for that fight. But I also think we have to be strategic about it. That means we also figure out how we solve problems for our families. If we want them to vote for us, we've got to show we're also working on their behalf. We are not just going to be the party of, oh, we're just the alternative to him. He's so bad, so just vote for us. It's not going to win over our voters. It is going to win them over if they see us not only fighting him,

on those bad policies that are harming us, like taking people off of Medicaid in my state, working families who rely on Medicaid for their children who have rare diseases, or gutting food assistance for working families who are now getting ready to go into school gear, and some of those kids may not have meals to eat during the day.

So there is a fight to be had and be smart about it and take this administration on, but at the same time, show the voters, that we also are working on their behalf. We should be working to address affordable housing in this country and working together. We should be working to bring broadband into every community. In rural Nevada, I was just there. Of course, they're concerned about the Medicaid cuts and the cuts that are happening

because it could close some of my clinics or some of my hospitals are going to have to make tough decisions about what services they provide. But one of the areas that will help them is if we give them broadband and connectivity so people can do telehealth and telemedicine. So there should be a way that we can work together and at the same time put up that fight. I do it. I know it can be done. It's not an either or.

And that's where our party needs to be because at the end of the day, we have to win. If we're going to be a backstop in Congress, whether it's taking back the House or taking back the Senate, we have to win these races. And the only way are we going to win are with voters that have not been there for us or voted for Trump and now are unhappy because they see the cuts that are happening and they want somebody that's going to stand with them and fight for them and give them an opportunity to succeed in the future. Speaking about taking up the Senate, I mean, I look at the Senate map for 2026 and it looks grim, frankly. It's a tough, tough cycle for you guys. So, I mean, you love the DSCC for

2018 and 2020, I believe those are the cycles. So, I mean, give me your candidate assessment about where you think things are. And if you were in that leadership position now, like, where would you kind of prioritize which races? What do you think are the most important things that Democrats get right? Is, like, candidate recruitment at this stage, the most important thing? Talk me through that a little bit. Yeah, Lauren, I can tell you from just my experience of the DSCC, when I ran it, remember, we came out of, we were, it was during a period of time of COVID. And we did have a tough map then.

And the only way we were able to flip the Senate is to expand those states for Democrats that are traditionally the purple states and red states. Otherwise, we weren't going to flip the Senate. So if you recall when I was DSEC chair working with my team and Chuck Schumer, we actually recruited incredible candidates in those states that helped us flip those seats. So we got Mark Kelly in Arizona, and he flipped that seat from Republican to Democrats. We got John Hickenlooper, former governor of Colorado. He flipped that seat from Republican to Democrat. And then we picked up those two incredible seats in Georgia, which typically is hard to flip, but we flip them both to Democrat.

We got John Osseth and Raphael-Whorner. Huge surprise at the time. Exactly. And that was a long, if you remember, it was long, too, because it was not just November. We had to do a runoff in January. So it can be done with the quality of a candidate, absolutely. But it goes back to what I said. but also the candidate talking to their voters about what matters to them, those common sense issues, lowering costs, making sure they have access to health care, keeping our communities safe. You don't go in and say we're going to defund the police. I don't know if anybody who doesn't want the police to respond when they call 911. So it really is smart conversations with our voters and the quality of the candidate and the candidates in those tough states where they can't just rely on a democratic base, but where they have to really talk.

to voters about what matters to them, that shows that they can win. And I will say this. If you look at the last election in our moderate states, our moderate candidates, whether they were senators or governors, they actually did really well and out, they really outpaced the top of the ticket as well in votes. So there is something to be said about not just being a moderate, but more importantly, just talking to your voters and talking to them, finding a connection and figuring out how you can grow from there in developing common sense policies that solves problems in this country. And I think at least I think that's what voters want. You know, most people don't know Northern Nevada, particularly our rural areas. And I'm going to name some cities. Most people don't

even know. Lovelock, Battle Mountain, Winamucka, Elka, Wells. These are really rural ranching communities, and they voted for Donald Trump. But I'm telling you, Lauren, they feel the anxiety and the angst. They're uncomfortable, and they're concerned about some of the cuts that this administration has already done when it comes to wildfires and preventing wildfires. And BLM, a Bureau of Land Management, remember, almost 80% of the land is owned by the federal government. And most of its BLM are ranchers rely on that grazing on BLM land. But if we're not managing it, and smartly managing it and wildfires are happening, there's a problem. And they're cutting that. This administration has cut back on a lot of the Forest Service and our federal land managers.

And that's not going over well with some of our ranchers in northern Nevada, rightfully so. So they're just, but it requires us to get out and talk to them and show up and just have conversations and find common ground. And I think that's just so important. Well, speaking about how moderates can win, the New York Times described you in an article recently as one of the, quote, least flashy lawmakers on Capitol Hill. I think they meant that as a compliment, but when we talk about politics today being all about who can grab people's attention and kind of like breaking through and understanding the attention economy, how do you kind of think about that? And do you feel like moderates, you know, like I spoke to Connor Lame about this a few weeks ago. he was kind of like, yeah, you know, moderates are a little bit disadvantaged here because we're not going to say the most like bombastic things on TikTok and, and kind of go viral. So it's this,

it's this thing we have to sort of navigate and figure out because our style is naturally a bit more cautious. I'm curious if you agree with that and how you kind of think about how to navigate this, this new attention economy that we're all trying to figure out. Yeah, I think there's a difference. I think there's a distinction here. There's a difference between. going viral and being a show horse and going viral, not sure that translates into voters supporting you, right? So you've got to figure out, and for those of us, and I'm a workhorse, let's solve this problem.

Let's figure out how we get things done. But I do have to, in essence, get out in voters and say, here's why I want you to vote for me and be a higher profile. But I think there's a way to do it without having to just look for those viral moments. I think it is about showing up. It is about engagement. It is about follow up. It is getting to know your constituents and they know you.

And here's why I think this is important. When I'm in my community and they're talking to me face to face and when we are having this engagement, they look at me differently than those congressional members in Washington. You're not one of those Washington people. You're one of us. And they may not, they may be Republican and they may say, you know, she's not one of those crazies. I may not vote for her, but I'm not going to vote against her.

I'm not going to come out against her and vote for the other person because I know she's working on policies that are good for me. And so there is a distinction. Here's the other thing that most people forget. And this is another distinction for me. In Nevada, there's about three million people. 70% of them live in Las Vegas. Right. Las Vegas is a tourism, travel service industry. It is very transient. If you're running in Nevada as a statewide elected, you have to reintroduce yourself to that constituency because it's very transient. They're coming in every two or three years maybe moving in. And so there is a way to show who you are and connect with them, whether it's through social media or commercials or TV or radio, you're talking with them all the time. And you're communicating with them about what is being done.

So there's a way to do it. And my preference, obviously, is let's get the, let's solve these problems. Let's win these races and show people who we are as Democrats that when we show up, we can focus on the issues that matter to them and we get it done. To me, that is the way we win these races. And I see that happening, as you said, amongst the moderates that have won in the past that are running now, they're focused on the issues that matter to. Americans in trying to solve those problems. I know you've got to run, but before you go,

I want to talk a bit about the government shutdown deadline that's coming up in about a month from now. Republicans are going to need Democratic votes in the Senate in order to avoid a shutdown. And so I guess two questions for you. One, do you think that Democrats should try and sort of extract some kind of deal from them? Is there room to negotiate here? And if Democrats do make any sort of demands from the Republicans in exchange for their votes, if you had a magic wand and you've got to decide the two demands that the party was going to make and rally around, what would those be for you? Yeah.

Well, before we even get there, let's put it into perspective here. The Republicans are in control. And as they are in control, they set the agenda. And particularly, they get to identify what areas that they value in terms of budgeting. What they should be doing is identifying those areas that lift everybody up in this country that don't take away programs or health care, that don't stop negotiation prescription drugs, that ensure that we're funding everybody across the country, no matter where you are, we're focused on our hardworking individuals and we're lifting them up. That's where the Democrats should start. Excuse me, that's where the Republicans who are in control. That's where they should start from.

If they're starting from that, that's then where Democrats automatically will come in and work with them and say, yeah, let's get this done. We're lifting people up. We're not about harming people. So really, the burden is on the Republicans to show who they are. Are they really going to, are they, is it about for them setting in appropriations that identifies their values of helping Americans or harming them? And I don't know that yet, learn until we get back and see where we're going to go. But that's where it should start because the Republicans are in control and they have the ability to do right by this country when they identify the budget that they're going to put forward. They shouldn't harm anybody in that budget.

They should be helping folks and lifting them up. And really quickly, Senator, I'm curious on this tour that you just finished up, if you were hearing from folks about increased energy prices, we've talked a lot in the past few days about how energy prices are just skyrocketing. And I'm curious whether you think the utility bills and how, yeah, we're all just paying way more to keep our AC running in the summer, whether or not you think that that's going to be an effective midterm message next year. Yeah. Well, in Nevada, let me say it's still groceries. I will tell you whether I'm urban or rural area, it's still cost of food, groceries, health care, access to it. But also, you've got to remember Nevada, particularly in the last probably about 10 years. our focus has been on renewable energy and solar. Solar has provided an opportunity for us to keep our costs down, create great jobs, union jobs in this country, and in Nevada and grower economy in Nevada.

So there's a lot of people that have benefited because of solar. And now we have an administration that is targeting solar for some reason, has basically said it is the enemy. It is the cause of all of our problem. and so we are going to eliminate any projects or anything having to do with solar. That is going to backfire in Nevada. Nevadans have benefited. Whether it's urban, rural area, people have seen the benefits of solar.

And so what I am hearing now in Nevada is questioning, why is this happening? Why is the administration targeting solar when it really should be in all of the above energy approach and allow us to continue to create jobs around solar and batteries, right, electric fields, all of the above that have benefited in Nevada. So that's what I'm hearing in Nevada right now. All right, Senator, thank you so much for being here today. Come back in September and let's chat about government shutdown. We definitely do so.

Thank you, Lauren.