Bulwark Takes - Sen. Shaheen: Trump Seizing Venezuelan Oil Tanker Puts Us At Risk

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

Sam Stein speaks with Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH) for her take on the fast-moving fight in Congress over extending enhanced Obamacare subsidies, the looming spike in premiums, and why millions could lose coverage if lawmakers fail to act. Shaheen breaks down the competing proposals, the political pressure inside the Senate, and the GOP’s reliance on Donald Trump to bless any deal. They also discuss the administration’s continued escalation in the Caribbean, the unanswered questions surrounding the September 2 boat strikes and news that the U.S. seized a Venezuelan oil tanker. Exclusive $35 off Carver Mat at https://on.auraframes.com/BULWARKTAKES. Promo Code BULWARKTAKES

Hey, everyone. It's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bullwork. This is a Bullwark take interview with Senator Gene Shaheen of the great state of New Hampshire, where I went to college. So I feel some affinity for New Hampshire, as always. Senator, thanks. Did you get an harvest, I assume? Yes, I did, and I appreciate it. I take the assumption very pleasantly. Thank you very much. It's a great school. Senator, I want to talk to you about what's happening on the Hill today. And then I want to talk to you about what's happening overseas. But let's start with the Hill because, your chamber and the House are both engaged in this debate of what to do with the Obamacare subsidies. The reason that this debate is happening is because you were part of a group of Democrats that made the decision to open the government, or reopen the government, I should say, without a deal in the Obamacare exchanges. At the time, it was a very contentious decision to take that vote and to reopen the government, but now that the issue of subsidies for Obamacare is front and center, do you feel

vindicated with your vote? Well, I think we made the point. that people were going to see a huge increase in the enhanced premium tax credits if Republicans didn't act. And when they passed the big betrayal bill, as I call it, in the summer we tried to get an extension of those premium tax credits, which they did not approve. And so we wanted to point out that it was going to mean a huge increase for those people who rely on those premium tax credits and result. and about 4 million people losing their health insurance, and that will have ripple effects

across the whole health care system. So I think that point was made during the shutdown. We thought it was important to be able to ensure that there is a vote so that people will know who's responsible for the fact that those tax, if those tax credits don't get extended, and they'll be able to hold our Republican colleagues accountable in the elections next year. So the vote's coming up in a matter of days, maybe a day. Tomorrow, I was trying to be generous about who knows what happens on the floor and also when this comes out.

But yeah, it's scheduled for tomorrow. This is recorded on Wednesday. The votes on Thursday. There's like half a dozen, maybe more proposals flying around. It's hard to actually keep track of what's happening. What are the prospects, what are the chances that you put of a clean extension? Maybe it could be a year, two years, three years, potentially of these. enhanced Obamacare subsidies. What are the chances you put of something like that passing through your

chamber? Well, I think the proposal that the Democrats are going to put forward would be a three-year extension, clean extension of the premium tax credits. I don't think that will pass. So far, we haven't been able to get enough Republicans to say that they would support that. There will be a Republican proposal that was put out today by Senators Cassidy and Crapo that don't extend the premium tax credits and don't provide the kind of help that people really need to help pay their health care premiums. I think that will also fail. And then hopefully maybe we can get people to work together to see if we can't find a compromise that will address those increased costs of premiums because we've got to do something about those premium tax credits.

Is it fair to say that Democrats are not on board with a version of the health savings account? that have been so popular from Republicans right now? I think that's correct. Because currently those health savings accounts are prohibited from covering premium increases or the cost of premiums. So they don't really help with what people are facing now. And there's real urgency about this because people have gotten their rate increases. They see what they're going to be paying.

We had a shadow hearing earlier this afternoon, Senator Warner and I with a number of Democratic citizens. senators. And we heard from experts, like from Georgetown University all the way to the woman who heads the Massachusetts connector, who's dealing with efforts for people to get into the marketplace, to Susan Stearns who heads the NAMI, New Hampshire, which helps people who have substance use disorders and mental illness. And they all talked about what's going to happen if we don't extend these tax credits. The number of people in Massachusetts, I think she told us that there were already 10,000 people who had not renewed their health insurance. We know in New Hampshire

we're going to have people who are not going to be able to afford those costs and renew. So it's going to have significant impacts, not just on the people who are losing their health insurance because of those costs, but on the whole health care system. We know analysis says that the cost of uncompensated care, people going to the emergency rooms and not having health insurance is going to increase dramatically $7.7 billion for that. We know that it's going to have an impact on emergency rooms and the ability to provide coverage for people. So, and for those of us who have health insurance, employer-sponsored health insurance, it's going to affect our rates, too. So we've got to address this issue. And there's, as I said, real urge

to do this. It's funny. It's almost remarkable that you had a shadow hearing. I'm old enough I report on the passage of Obamacare to remember actual hearings around health care policy where people were debating legislation and amending it. It's just absent from any of this discussion. And it does kind of get to sort of the lingering tension around the shutdown and I think around the debate over the enhanced subsidies, which is everything's happening in a very haphazard way. And it seems like the only possible ingredient for something passing through Congress, at least on the Republican inside of the ledger, is if you have direct engagement from Donald Trump himself. If he says, yes, I will allow my party to support this measure. Is that how you view the political prospects here,

is that Donald Trump has to do some form of direct engagement, maybe outline a plan of what he wants? Is that the only thing that we get, is that the only way that we get some sort of constructive bill or negotiation? Well, I don't think it's clear yet. I think, unfortunately, Trump talked about putting forward a proposal. What we knew about the proposal that he seemed to be offering sounded not bad. And I think maybe that's why he never formally offered it because he got blowback from particularly Speaker Johnson and House Republicans who didn't want to vote on something that actually provided health care under the Affordable Care Act. Right. So I hope the president's going to get involved.

I think it's important as we talk about affordability and, you know, the president can't decide if he's on board with trying to address affordability for people or not on board with you. No, no, that's a hoax. That's a hoax. Come on now. But as we talk about that, one of the huge costs that people are facing is for health care coverage and health insurance. And what we heard today in our hearing from people who were affected, one small business owner from Virginia who talked about that she and her husband, both of whom were small businesses, have started their own businesses, are not going to be able to afford the increases to cover their health insurance. And they don't have any other option. Right. It's a young couple who have young children have some health issues. And we're seeing that repeated over and over again and state after state across.

Well, do you think it's one of these situations where you have to go over the cliff, unfortunately? I mean, I know people are getting already notices that their premiums are going to spike in the new year, but they haven't yet spiked. Bullwork takes is sponsored by ORAF frames. I've got a bit of a holiday gift-giving pattern. I tell myself this year it's going to be different. and then I will panic at the last minute because I forgot to get the more thoughtful gift and I'll just buy a gift card.

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orrframes.com to get $35 off Orra's best-selling Carver Matt Frames. It was named number one by wirecutter. Use the code. Use the promo code. Bullwork takes at checkout. That's A-U-R-A-Frames.com. promo code bulwark takes this deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out pretty fast so order yours now to get it in time for the holidays support the show by mentioning us at the checkout is it one of the situations where things really get out of hand people start saying they start dropping insurance stop showing up for care start you know filing you know i don't know what they would have to do in this case but they basically can't afford their health insurance and only then you compel action well i hope not i hope not i hope

that senior heads will prevail and that we can address this before people face those kinds of dramatic consequences. You know, one of the things that I learned early on when I got involved in politics is that there are some fundamentals that are critical for people to feel like they have security with themselves and their families. One is a decent place to live, a job, But the third is health care, being able to know that when they or their families get sick, that they can make sure they get the care that they need. And that's a basic that every American should be able to feel comfortable about. Yeah. I want to switch to foreign policy. Right now, the preponderance of attention is what exactly is happening with respects to Venezuela, our actions in the Caribbean.

And in particular, this double-tap-bock strike that happened on September 2nd, in which the Pentagon ordered a second strike because there were survivors of the first. We know that a video of that second strike was shown to the gang of eight. I'm wondering if you are going to get the opportunity to see it, if you've requested the opportunity to see it, if you've heard about what's in it. Well, we've requested briefings both in the Foreign Relations Committee and in the Armed Services Committee. So far, those requests have not been granted as far as I understand. I have not, so I have not seen what's in the film.

But what's interesting about that video is the administration has been very quick to release videos of boat strikes over the last. few months. And it raises questions about why are they not willing to release this one? What's in it that they're so worried that the American people might see? And it's important for Congress to see this video, but the American people ought to see it too, so that they can determine whether this is the kind of stance that America should be taking and whether it's consistent with our values. Right. The other thing that's kind of percolating all over, this is that South Khan Admiral Alvin Holsey was pushed out of his position under very weird circumstances, frankly. No one was quite certain why he was, but it seemed very much related

to the campaign that we're now undertaking in the Caribbean. Reports this week is that he has been talking to or did talk to a couple of your colleagues. I presume you want to talk to him too and get him before your committee, but I'm just sort of curious you can give us a little insight into what efforts have been undertaken to reach this admiral to see if he has any insights into what is actually happening? I have not been part of those discussions, so I really can't speak to that. But the admiral has an honorable record. I'm sure that it's important for him to be able to retire with honor. And what we heard from his successor has indicated that he gave the order for that second boat strike and the circumstances are still murky about what actually

happened there. Yeah. And then the last thing I want to ask you about, and we're going to do something I haven't really done on a take before, which is this is this happened today, Donald Trump. We're going to play some video for you. I don't know if you've seen this, but Donald Trump today, reported by Bloomberg, then Donald Trump announced that we have apparently seized a oil refinery a boat from Venezuela that was en route to Cuba. I want to play the video of Donald Trump announcing it, and I want to just get your reaction on the other side of that video of the FMA. From the standpoint of news, as you probably know,

we've just seized a tanker on the coast of Venezuela, a large tanker, very large. Largest one ever seized, actually. And other things are happening. You'll be seeing that later, and you'll be talking about that later with some other people. Sorry, he said oil refinery. I obviously meant oil tanker. What is going on here?

Well, it's a further escalation of the actions by this administration in the Caribbean and against Venezuela. And again, it puts at risk Americans, puts at risk our men and women in the military. He's taking action without congressional authorization and risking. a further conflict in Venezuela. Can Trump do this without congressional authorization? Well, as long as people are not willing to prevent him from doing it, unfortunately, the answer is yes. I'm hoping that our Republican colleagues will speak up with us to say this is not appropriate action. I know that there is an effort, legislative effort that Senator Cain

has engaged in to try and call out this action if he further escalates. But again, Congress needs to act. We need to make our voices heard that we should not let the executive and the president, the executive branch and the president get us into another war that the American people don't know about, haven't supported, and there's no transparency for what the president is doing. Yeah, no hearings, no rationalization, no legal justification. It's quite something. Senator Shaheen, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Please come back anytime. Obviously, I have a soft spot for anyone from New Hampshire, so thank you. I appreciate it.

Good. Well, we consider you a granite stater. And I've graduated from Dartmouth. I'll take it. I take it. Thank you so much, Senator.