Bulwark Takes - Stop Using Cops as Props!

Episode Date: May 18, 2025

Michael Fanone joins Ben Parker to discuss the politicization of policing, the lies law enforcement has been sold, and why the people who attacked the Capitol should never be called patriots. Check out Michael's post here: https://michaelfanone.substack.com/p/from-one-cop-to-another

Hi, everyone. Ben Parker from the Bulwark. It is my pleasure and honor to be joined by Officer Michael Fanone, one of the heroes of the January 6th insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, former member of the Metropolitan D.C. Police Department. Officer Fanone, thanks for joining me. No, thank you guys for having me. I appreciate it. And it's sad, but we actually have to quantify. I was when he says I was a hero of January 6th. I was one of the police officers that showed up that day, not the insurrectionists. Yeah, that's right. To me, that's what being a hero on that day meant. I guess other people have a different interpretation, but we will talk about that because on your sub stack, you had a really powerful piece you wrote for National Police Officers Memorial Day, which is May 15th.

And it's called From One Cop to Another. What made you want to write this piece, Officer Fumil? I mean, coming from a law enforcement background, for those that don't know, I spent two decades with the Metropolitan Police Department in Washington, D.C. Before that, I spent a year with the United States Capitol Police. So I spent the better part of my have experienced the way that law enforcement officers in this country have been pandered to and politicized by both the Republican and Democratic party. Yeah. We got to talk about this because this is what the piece is all about.

It's how politicians use and abuse their relationship with law enforcement for political ends. And obviously, you have a huge amount of experience with that because of January 6th. And you wrote a lot about, again, from one cop to another is the title of the piece. You wrote a lot about what other police officers should think about January 6th and everything that happened after. So why don't you just give us a summary, If you had to put it in a few sentences, what should other police officers, what should everyone think about what it means to back the blue? I think most officers recognize pandering when they see it.

And, you know, we're experiencing that as a community now with the Republican Party that seems to be showering us with this hallow praise. And I think it's important for officers to recognize the motivation behind it is because this administration wants you to do things that are immoral and in many cases illegal. And listen, you know, as a police officer for two decades, I had what I would probably describe as a high school their oath to the Constitution and what that means and recognize the fact that they work for the American people and they work for the principles that are enshrined in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, not for Donald Trump and not for MAGA. And you really can't be a supporter

of both. And so the purpose of the piece is for officers to hear from another law enforcement officer that perspective and that point of view, and in hopes that it will get them thinking about what it is that they're doing in the moment that they may be asked to do something that is immoral or illegal. Yeah, it's less about interacting with police and more about interacting with politicians, right? So whenever a politician is being really nice, it means they want something. And in this case, politicians definitely want something from law enforcement. And you write a little bit about what that is, why the Republican Party really wants to portray itself as being closely allied to law enforcement. But it's not because they like enforcing the law.

It's not what they like, the guys with obviously, that I point to is January 6th, 2021, an insurrection which was incited by Donald Trump, carried out by his supporters who assaulted members of law enforcement, myself included, at our Capitol building in the hopes of preventing Congress from certifying a free and fair election. Now, listen, that event in and of itself has been politicized, you know, to no end. And I think a lot of police officers are just tired of even hearing about it. And I hear a lot of whataboutism and, you know, the riots in 2020. And, well, I experienced this. And we'll take, for instance, you know, break it down into the individual assaults of police officers and recognize the fact that behind each of those individuals that Trump later pardoned was an assault committed against a police officer in which a police officer, you know, you, the American law enforcement officer's brother or sister who went to court, testified, swore under oath that they would give a true and accurate accounting of what happened.

And then those individuals were either found guilty or pled guilty as part of their due process, which they were afforded, and then sentenced in accordance to the law. And so how can you support a political party or feel that this political party supports you when they would pardon individuals who were afforded due process after having assaulted police officers and then sentenced to jail time. And then we're let go. It just doesn't, it doesn't add up. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's not just the sworn testimony they provided. We've all seen the videos. If it's been a while since you watched the videos, go back and rewatch the videos because there's no question about what's happening, right? You and your fellow officers

were clearly labeled as police. You were wearing, you know, police uniforms. Some people were wearing like, you know, the full riot control gear. There was no question. And people were what? Spraying bear spray into your faces, bashing you with, with, with, you know, flagpoles. And I think in one case of the fire extinguisher, I mean, just crushing you. You told the story before about at one point they were yelling and grabbing at you. Get his gun, get his gun. Right. who grabbed me around the neck, pulled me off the police line and restrained me in this crowd of thousands of individuals. During that time, another individual, Kyle Young, lunged at me, tried to remove my firearm from its holster.

All the while, you know, members of the crowd were yelling to get his gun and kill him with his gun. I had Daniel Rodriguez use a taser device and apply it to my neck a number of times. And Wayne Snoots, who restrained my my arms, you know, while individuals were beating me with their fists, some with, you know, metal objects. I mean, it was a it was a violent and brutal assault. Yeah. You testified at their trials. So none of them went to trial. under oath, you know, in their pre-sentencing, sentencing hearings, what they were culpable of, the assaults that they committed against me, accepted responsibility, and were sentenced. And then how did you feel when on one of the first days of his second term, Donald Trump pardoned them and thousands of other people who had also assaulted law enforcement. It was expected, but it still was shocking. I mean, listen,

the guy announced his candidacy for his second term in office in Waco, Texas, the scene of one of the bloodiest encounters between the American fringe militia movement and law enforcement in which, you know, numerous law enforcement officers lost their lives. He's been promising these pardons literally since day one and has stood shoulder to shoulder with members of the January 6th insurrection and, um, and called them heroes and patriots. Yeah. Uh, and he claims to back the blue, but you were the blue that day. Have you heard from any of the, uh, people who attacked you or any of the other January 6th insurrectionists since they've been free? Have they tried to get in contact with you or have you heard from them at

all? No. Yeah. There was the episode though we were we were both at the principal's first conference so there was a bomb threat by some of the proud boys so that that maybe counts i think yeah i guess that's a in a form of reaching out um and then ivan ranklin and um enrique tarrio showed up so i i guess uh yeah and they showed up because they knew that you and henry dunn and your a few of the other officers from January 6th, they knew you were going to be there. So they showed up to confront you and someone called in a bomb threat. Yeah. No, they they were looking for a viral moment. I mean, that's what it's all about. I mean, you can there was an article that came out, I think it was yesterday in The Washington Post that talks about all the money that's being made by these insurrectionists in the aftermath of their pardons by selling swag and, you know, T-shirts and other, I guess, memorabilia.

But that that's really what I think what that moment was all about. And an attempt to, you know, strike fear into those that are in opposition to, to the MAGA extremist movement. Yeah. Well, look, I, uh, I'm going to go out on a limb here. Um, we've only just met, we don't know each other well, but I'm just looking at you and just from what I know about you, when I look at you, the first thing I think is I'm going to try to strike fear into this guy. That's not my first reaction. He looks easy to scare. No, that's not what I think.

So I want to ask you, you've spent this long career in law enforcement before January 6th. Did you see signs of politicians trying to politicize law enforcement then? And what did you think about it before it all came to a head during the insurrection? Really the first time that I ever experienced the politicization of law enforcement on a personal believe was in late 2015, early 2016. And then you saw this national media attention turn towards these polarizing events involving communities of color and police officers. And so, you know, on the one hand, I'm the first person to tell you that law enforcement in this country most certainly is not above reform and reproach. That being said, the way that those conversations were conducted and handled was not in any way, at least in my mind, productive. In fact, in a lot of ways, it was counterproductive and it was dangerous to police officers.

And what I experienced was the assassination style killings of uniformed law enforcement officers for no other reason than they were wearing a uniform and doing their job. And so it had a chilling effect, I think, on police officers across this country. And at a time in which, you know, there was a lot of focus on rebuilding relationships with the community. This idea that, you know, legacy media organizations and politicians would paint a picture of police officers as being, you know, these rabid animals out in the streets trying to kill people of color was just not productive and um and it was destroying you know any uh headway that had been made in rebuilding some of those relationships i mean i worked for the metropolitan police department of washington dc dc is a bastion of far-left politics we were doing progressive community policing before that was even a term. And so, you know, what I saw was relationships that had been built come tumbling down in the

aftermath of this. And then, you know, officers like myself, I mean, that was the main reason I voted for Donald Trump in 2016, was because I saw one political party that in my mind was anti-police. That was about punishing people for choosing the profession of law enforcement. Now, whether or not that was the case with, you know, each and every member of the Democratic Party, I mean, I know that for a fact that now that is not true. And obviously, you know, Fox News did a wonderful job of making it seem as though that was the case. But, you know, perception in a lot of instances is reality. that coupled with the things that I was actually seeing and witnessing made it impossible for me to support a democratic candidate at that time. And then I saw Donald Trump come along and whisper sweet nothings into my ear as a police officer. And I bought into that bullshit. And so Um, and so I, what I wanted to say in the piece was that while, you know, in the one hand being politicized in a negative light is bad. So is being pandered to and politicized in a positive light.

It's all bullshit. You know, if a politician wants to do something good for a police officer, then do your job, draft legislation that, you know, in some way raises funding for training for law enforcement officers or, you know, whatever the case may be. But we have a Hatch Act for a reason. I don't care if it's a leisurely photo or not. I don't think police officers should be taking pictures with politicians and vice versa. I think that, you know, politicization, regardless of what side of the aisle, is incredibly dangerous in this country. And, you know, we're living that right now. I mean, we literally have a political party in the Republican Party that celebrates the weaponization of law enforcement. Yeah. Uh, you know, I think you're right. You know, the best thing to do for politicians to do, uh, during campaign season with police is leave them out of it. Right.

Yeah. Um, do you think we have a pro police party in this country today? No, I think that's right. I mean, you know, I'm sure there are, there are a lot of Democrats who take your points about policing very seriously. And I think, you know, there are a lot who have learned a lot since, as you said, the Michael Brown era. I really, you know, Republicans pretend to be pro-police, but as you said, right, like they're partying with people who attacked you and tried to kill you and try to take your gun and shoot you with it. Law enforcement has gotten, you know, sucked up into the culture war, uh, just like the military and just like any other organization that, you know, at, at its face,

uh, you would associate with, you know, patriotism and, and, you know, the red, white, and blue and all that jazz. But, um, it's, it's just an incredibly complicated issue. You know, law enforcement is not something that we can just say, all right, we're going to stop and fix this problem. Like you got to refit the ship while it's at sea. Yeah. So I would much rather see, you know, politicians stay the hell away from police officers because it doesn't do us any good in the community. Right. You know, some poor schmuck officer riding his bicycle, being forced to do a photo op with like Kevin McCarthy when he did his National Police Week bike ride,

you know, somebody is going to go see that guy in the community and say, oh, I know what kind of cop he is. He's a MAGA cop. It just doesn't, you know, it doesn't help. And law enforcement agencies should recognize that and they should do a much better job of keeping their people separate from these events that are clearly designed as a publicity stunt. All right. So I would be remiss if we didn't talk about the very last line of your piece, because you give a little bit of advice. You say the next time your MAGA loving supervisor gives you an order that is contradictory to the principles and laws enshrined in our constitution and bill of rights, the one you sort of uphold, you told them what to say. What do they say? I told him this is America and you should go fuck yourself. Michael Fanone, thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for watching The Bulwark. Make sure you

like the video, subscribe to the page, leave a comment. And if you really like what we're doing, come on over to the bulwark.com become a bulwark plus member. We'll see you back here next time. Thanks, Ben.