Bulwark Takes - The GOP’s Healthcare Flimflammery Is The New Big Lie

Episode Date: June 1, 2025

Sam Stein and Jonathan Cohn discuss the truth behind GOP Medicaid messaging, the real impact of the proposed cuts, and why this isn’t about fraud, it’s about gutting coverage. Check out Jonathan's piece here: https://open.substack.com/pub/thebulwark/p/rkf-jr-kennedy-hhs-may-have-just-ruined-our-best-weapon-against-bird-flu-moderna-mrna-covid-boosters-cdc?r=5i9ljr&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Rural communities are being squeezed from every side. From rising health care costs to crumbling hospitals, from attacks on public schools to the fight for paid family and medical leave, farmers and small businesses are reeling from the trade war. And now, Project 2025 is back with a plan to finish what Elon Musk started. Trump and the Republicans won rural votes, then turned their backs on us. Join the One Country Project for the Rural Progress Summit, July 8th through the 10th.

This free virtual event brings together leaders like Senator Heidi Heitkamp, Secretary Pete Buttigieg, Governor Andy Beshear, and others for real talk and real solutions. Together we'll tackle the most urgent issues facing rural America. Register today or learn more at ruralprogress.com. Hey guys, Sam Stein here with the Bullwork.

I'm joined by Jonathan Cohen, author of our newsletter, The Breakdown. He's got a great one this morning, but we're not going to talk about that. You should read that, subscribe to that, go on Substack, share with all your friends, get them to subscribe to it. We want the subscribers. We're here to talk about, uh, Russ Vought, Mike Johnson, Medicaid, and a series of egregious lies and misstatements, mistrust, whatever you want to call them on our Sunday show docket

before we get into that subscribe to our YouTube feed, which is where you're probably watching this. All right, Cone, first off, congrats, your kid got married. Oh, yes, indeed, indeed. Yeah, we had a wedding last weekend and it was- That's awesome. It was good to be reminded of the good things in life. So yeah, I'm a very proud dad and they're super happy. So yeah, thanks. All right. I remember

is this one that I met when he was like a wee little lad? Yeah, yeah, you were talking about the Red Sox. Yeah, still a Red Sox fan, by the way, I feel for him. I feel for him. It's been tough here. All right, let's talk response. He's on TV. He's on state of the union this weekend with Dana Bash. The pinpoint is, or the pressure point I should say is Medicaid and they're talking about going back and forth. Well, look, this bill you've put together that passed through the House that's now awaiting action in the Senate, it has some sweeping reforms that constitute cuts to Medicaid

and he is just absolutely pushing back on it in ways that are egregious. Let's watch the video and then I'm going to get your reaction to it on the other side. This bill will preserve and protect the programs, the social safety net, but it will make it much more common sense. Look, one out of every five or six dollars in Medicaid is improper. We have illegal immigrants on the program. We don't have, we have able-bodied working adults that don't have a work requirement that they would have in TANF or even snap and

Those are something that's very important to Institute. That's what this bill does No one will lose coverage as a result of this bill. I saw you on Twitter Before I had I summoned you to YouTube you seem Perplexed angered rageful. What is it about that? That's wrong Yeah, so I mean here we have the director of the Office of Management and Budget saying there are no coverage losses in this bill. I mean, that is, that's not just misleading. That's not out of context.

That is a bold-faced lie. And we're talking, you know, left is right, up is down, zebras are chickens. I mean, this is just not, there's no universe where this is true. The CBO has estimated that from Medicaid alone, and remember, there's Medicaid cuts here, there's cuts to Obamacare here, that we are looking at more than seven million people

losing health insurance. And actually, just to be clear, the number of people who lose Medicaid is actually bigger than that. It's just that some of them will find their way to other forms of insurance, which will be not as comprehensive. So you're looking at the number of uninsured Americans rising by more than 7 million people. I do not understand how an official of the United States government can get up there

with a straight face and say there are no coverage. I mean, like them, you may want to justify them. Fine, own it, argue for it, but they're not real. And his justification or rationalization, which Mike Johnson also talks about, and we'll get to that in a little bit, is that, well, you know, it's people who shouldn't be on Medicaid to begin with, so they don't count as coverage losses. Is that more or less what he's trying to get at? I mean, that's one of the arguments they make. And in Mike Johnson, when he was on, I think,

Meet the Press, that's where he started. And you've heard that a lot. Well, this is not who Medicaid is for. Well, let's stop and talk about Medicaid for a second. Sure. Yeah. The program, right? It was established in 1965, same bill that created Medicare. It was for low income people. Right. in 1965, same bill that created Medicare. It was for low income people. Over the years, we've had debates, Congress has had debates. You may recall there was a really big argument in 2009 and 2010 about something. I was there. You were there. I was there over the Affordable

Care Act. And the outcome of that debate was, hey, we want to get closer to a universal coverage system and we're going to build on Medicaid. Medicaid will cover more people we had that debate and again if they don't like that if they think well That's we don't want that fine then say that but don't say this is not what Medicaid is for. That's true is now a Medicaid or they're treating the Act of Congress and then relatedly and and subsequently the act of state houses and governors as illegitimate acts as if the expansion of Medicaid happened almost illegally and therefore should be undone. But that's not actually the case. We voted our elected representatives voted for this policy, which resulted in this expansion.

So it is kind of interesting that they just sort of say, well, that never really happened or shouldn't have happened as if those ones don't matter. That was not the only Russell Vought thing that you were angry about. There was another one about the bill, the big, beautiful bills impact on the deficit. He says it lowers it by 1.4 trillion.

Not true. This bill doesn't increase the deficit or hurt the debt. In fact, it lowers it by by 1.4 trillion. Not true. This bill doesn't increase the deficit or hurt the debt. In fact, it lowers it by $1.4 trillion. What some of the watchdogs have done is they have used CBO's artificial baseline, which doesn't allow and assume that current tax law will be extended because of sunsets that are in the law. They don't do that with suspending. It is totally something that would be foreign to any

common sense person who comes and looks at how we budget in this country. And so when you assume the extension of the President's tax relief from 2017, this budget or this bill, and it is really a reconciliation bill, it's not really a budget bill. It is using a budget process. This is a $1.4 trillion over 10 years deficit reduction.

It's $1.6 trillion in mandatory savings. Obviously we have a little bit of spending in there as well for border and defense. But that is the biggest mandatory savings package that we have seen since the 1970s, 1997. It's very historic. Again, we're in here. You know, I just make up numbers and be like, yeah, you know, it's this it's that and just like, you know,

we were in a simulation and there's like another simulation where they've passed a bill that actually cuts spending and raises taxes enough to reduce the deficit. I don't know, it seems like an interesting universe. I'd like to go visit it. We do not live in that universe. That is not this simulation. In this version of reality, this bill explodes the deficit. And it does so because of these tax cuts

that are heavily, heavily weighted to the wealthy. And you know, there's a chart running around, which if you haven't seen on social media, where the CBO basically said, okay, here's the money we're taking from the poor. And here's the money we're giving to the rich. It's basically one to one. It is a literal truth to say that the money, if you look at the amount of money that is now being taken out of Medicaid and food assistance, is right around the same size as the money that's going to go to tax cuts for the wealthiest people in America.

So this is literally taking money and resources from the people who desperately need it, and we can talk about why and what's going for to people who are having, who make the most money, who are at the highest end of the income scale. Okay. Let's finally dissect the Speaker Johnson statement. We can go line by line maybe here. He's on Meet the Press. Now he is like, I'll give him credit. He's pretty smooth at this stuff. And he just just

rolls off the tongue. And so much of this is so not only misleading, there's some there's something like almost like maddening about it because of the way he frames it and just the absolute opposite intentions. But let's just I'm going to read it and then we'll go through it. So here it is. They ask him, you know, does this not cut Medicaid roles? No. And you can underscore what I'm about to tell you.

There are no Medicaid cuts in the big, beautiful bill. We're not cutting Medicaid. What we're doing is strengthening the program or reducing fraud, waste and abuse that is rampant in Medicaid to ensure that program is essential for so many people, ensure that it's available for the most vulnerable. It's intended for young, you know, single pregnant women and the disabled and the elderly. But what's happening right now is you have a lot of people, for example, young men, able bodied workers who are on Medicaid. They're not working when they can that drains resources from the people that

need it most. And so what we're doing here is an important and frankly heroic thing to preserve the program so that it doesn't become insolvent. This is not going to hurt rural hospitals, he says for good measure. All right, where do you want to begin? You want to go line through line?

I mean, we could. Yeah, let's go. Let's go line through line. Here we go. OK. There are no Medicaid cuts in the big, beautiful bill. We're not cutting Medicaid. The Congressional Budget Office and every single independent Yeah, let's go. Let's go. Here we go. Okay. There are no Medicaid cuts in the big beautiful bill. We're not cutting Medicaid.

The Congressional Budget Office and every single independent analyst who's looked at this would beg to disagree. There are more than $600 billion in Medicaid cuts. Speaker Johnson knows this. How are they not cutting the program? They have to cut the program. They got to pay for the tax cuts. Right.

I mean, that's the whole reason they're doing this. So of course it is cutting Medicaid. Okay. What we're doing is strengthening the program. Well, you know, um, if strengthening means weakening, sure. I mean, it's going to cover fewer people. Uh, and, and, and, and, you know, we have data on this. We, lots of research on this.

We know that Medicaid, it makes people, it makes more financially secure, it gets you better access to healthcare. And we have data on this, lots of research on this. We know that Medicaid, it makes you more financially secure, it gets you better access to healthcare. And we've got really good data now coming, which we didn't for a while showing, it makes you healthy, it keeps people alive longer, it improves health. So the program is gonna be, to me, if you're taking that away from

people so now that they're more likely to have financial problems, they're less likely to get healthier, they're more likely to die early. I mean, I guess maybe this is a subjective judgment, but to me that sounds like a weaker program. Sure. We're reducing waste, fraud, and abuse that is rampant in Medicaid to ensure the program is essential for so many people to ensure that it's available for the most vulnerable. Right.

So I mean, this is the argument they've been making for a while is that we're not cutting Medicaid. We're just getting rid of the waste, fraud, and abuse. And look, does Medicaid have waste, fraud, and abuse? Of course it does. Every program does. Every corporation does. It's human nature.

And if they want to look at places to cut waste that doesn't take care away from people who need it, hey, more power to them, they get bipartisan support for that. What they are really doing, though, is they are throwing up administrative hurdles, making it hard to sign up for the program, making it hard to stay on the program. And the way that they know, and we know from past experience,

is going to cause people who are eligible for Medicaid, who belong on Medicaid to lose that coverage. And they are also, by the way, like they are have like some straight up cuts. I mean, one of the changes they're making is telling people certain groups in the Medicaid population who that going forward, they're going to have to pay out of pocket costs that they don't have to pay now. I mean, that's a cut.

That's a benefit cut. That is a straight up benefit cut. All right, here we go. Keeping, keeping the train moving here. It's intended for young, single, pregnant women and the disabled and the elderly, but what's happening right now is you have a lot of people, for example, young men, able-bodied workers who are on Medicaid. They're not working when they can. Most people on Medicaid are working and if they're not working, they have a reason like a disability or some kind of caregiving responsibility.

Number of people who are able-bodied and not working is quite small and actually if you start to dive into that group, you'll find a lot of people who are sort of in between jobs and they deal in this sort of low income workforce, etc. And so, I mean this idea that you have this like, population sitting around watching TV, it's not true. And if you generally make sense, if you think about it, it's not like a cash benefit, right? All you're getting is access to healthcare. Yeah, it's like, Oh, I'm gonna get my Medicaid check this week and I'll just hang around. Oh, I get extra colonoscopy, right?

So I mean, that their teachers own Jonathan, I you know, I'm collecting colonoscopy I is for sure. All right. Last line here. That drains resources from people that need it most. And so what we're doing here is an important and frankly, heroic thing to preserve the program so it doesn't become insolvent. So if they're so concerned about insolvency, perhaps they want to think about not having this massive tax cut for the wealthy that's going to drive up the deficit. But I also want to talk about this sort of deserving part. I mean, this is like the argument that another one is arguing with them and make wrongs. Well, you know, we're giving insurance to this working age population. It takes away from the elderly and the disabled. And so

first of all, there's no evidence of that at all. There's no, people look into this. There's no evidence that like, if you give to the working age population, then you're gonna take away from these others. But also this gets to the sort of broader point of why Medicaid was expanded in the first place, which is that, before the Affordable Care Act

expanded Medicaid to this group, there was a large group of people who were working But low-income and had no way to get insurance. They couldn't afford it. They were working in low-wage jobs They had seasonal jobs and these were very deserving people They need health insurance and this was the way to get health insurance for them And if you don't believe me go ask speaker Johnson if he cares that he would lose health insurance or Rosavate if he cares if he Would lose health insurance they would scream in five seconds and they would say health insurance. I will Johnson knows this for sure and because his members are going back home to the town halls.

And people are freaking out and then they're saying well. Everyone dies don't worry about it. Everyone dies. Don't worry about it. We're all gonna ruin that. Well, I'm gonna all right Cohn Thank you so much, man. Appreciate this people. It's not the subject of his piece, but you should read his piece this morning It's about RFK pulling the Moderna vaccine for bird flu because of M on mRNA Technology, which he's just adamantly against it's a must-read piece check that out in addition to watching and sharing this video Thank you for subscribing. Thank you for listening. We really appreciate it and we'll talk to you soon