Bulwark Takes - Tim Miller Causes MAGA Nut To Have A Full On Breakdown

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

Tim Miller joins a panel on Piers Morgan Uncensored to share his takes on the White House Correspondents' Association's annual dinner, Trump's cruel immigration policies, and trans women in sports.

Hey everybody, this is Tim Miller from The Bulwark. I made my, you know, semi-monthly appearance over on the Piers Morgan show to engage with the dregs of MAGA society on the topics of the day. Today I got this guy, Vinny. Didn't know a lot about Vinny. Was pretty worried he was going to have a heart attack. He was really stroking out. It's tough to defend Trump these days.

It's really tough. You know, this show, we're not going to make you watch the whole 30 minutes, but this show, these guys are still focused on trans sports and Biden's decline because like those are the things I think they can argue. It's a lot harder to argue about what's happening

so far in the Trump administration. So I get into it with them on a couple of issues, particularly immigration. Pierce tried to get me to credit Trump about the border. I did not. I hope you will listen to my argument on that, because I think that's something we're going to be hearing a lot from. You've got to hand him credit on the border. And I don't think you do have to hand it to him on the border, actually,

for a variety of reasons, which I'll get into in a second. But lastly, you know, this conversation devolves into the conversation about transports because people's genitals is the only thing that these guys want to talk about um uh but i got cut off at the end but i wanted to kind of uh extend my remarks about how this, just the moral vacuousness of the people on the right who want to tell you that if there's one trans woman in a high school swim meet, that is an unacceptable abridgment of women's rights. We cannot possibly tolerate that. And then at the same time, while people are being deported to a torture prison in El Salvador, they do not broach the possibility that if one of them was wrongly sent there, then that is an unacceptable abridgment of that human rights and just shows you the moral bankruptcy of these guys, you know, that they, that they can,

you know, look, if you, if you're Martina Navratilova, if you're a person who is, it has a dedicated lifelong track record of fighting for women's rights. And you also disagree with, with the, the fact that, um,

trans women should be able to participate in a sport when you've competed in that sport at the highest level. I'll listen to you. I'll listen. Like, look, let's listen to these arguments. Let's hash these arguments out. I think that there's certain cases where that's true. There's certain cases, you know, where like, I'm not going to care that much. My daughter's playing in a boy's basketball league right now. right? Like she's seven, like it's different for seven year olds than it is for professionals, right? Like it's different in the Olympics than it is for a Frisbee golf tournament, right? Which is a story that Fox was covering, right? So like, you can hash these arguments out, but I will not listen to people tell me that they care about women's rights, that they care about human rights, and that's why they care about this issue.

If they then go on in the next breath to be like, well, whatever. If a couple people get accused of being gangbangers and have their entire life taken from them, then that's just a part of doing business. That's BS. It shows you that this is not genuine, that they don't actually care about women. They don't actually care about human rights. They care about their own political agenda. So anyway, that's where I was going before my cousin Vinny tried to stroke out there for some of the other highlights from the conversation. Because I know you guys like it.

I get complaints from people like, I don't want to see, I don't want to have to watch that. It speaks to themselves. Some guys like it. I get complaints of people like, I don't want to see, I don't want to have to watch that. It speaks for themselves. Some people like it. Some people, I think, you know, you know what I think this does? Is there many of you out there that want to yell at the MAGA in your life? But, you know, they're your dad or your uncle or your friend at work. And that's really not a fruitful use of your time. So let this be the outlet for you.

I'm joined by the PBD podcast, angry patriot, Vinny Ashana. So let this be the outlet for you. I saw you raising your eyebrow there. But there is a truth there, because it was a bizarre spectacle of a liberal skewed mainstream media basically openly admitting we dropped the ball massively on Biden's ability to be president of the United States. But many would argue, particularly on the left, I would think, well, it was entirely self-defeating, this ball dropping, and probably deliberate. You didn't give it the same attention you would have given if it had been, say, Trump. And the consequence of not holding Biden to proper account was that actually Donald Trump got re-elected, which nobody would have expected.

So there was a real-time consequence to this ball dropping. Do you think, though, that the mainstream media have learned any lessons from this or not? Yeah, I don't know. And I think this is the one area maybe where I can agree with you and the co-panelists is I think that this dinner is pretty stupid. I think the last thing that we need is a self-congratulatory ball for political journalists. You couldn't have paid me to go this weekend. I was at Jazz Fest instead. And so I agree that it's kind of silly. I do, though, bristle a little bit. I'm not speaking about you, Piers, per se, but at right-wing commentators talking about how they think that the mainstream media is biased and unfair. And, you know, when if you go to

Fox or Steve Bannon's podcast or the Daily Wire, I mean, you see like North Korea-esque coverage of what's happening with the president of the United States as he's single-handedly tanking our economy for no good reason, just because he likes the word tariffs, I guess. He inherited an economy that was getting better, that was improving, that wasn't perfect, but that was on the right path. And in three months, he has put us on the brink of recession. And so I think that the coverage on Fox and on other right-wing media outlets is, if anything, worse than the mainstream media's coverage of Democrats, which is not perfect by any means. And so, you know, I just don't know if the right-wing media folks have a lot of great credibility when it comes to demanding unbiased coverage.

There are reportedly 10 million people who came over the southern border in the Biden administration. You think they're all genuine asylum seekers? I think that we don't have a good enough asylum process and there are plenty that are claiming asylum and it doesn't matter whether someone is claiming asylum or not. Trump is treating them all the same.

I mean, he just deported a two-year-old US citizen back to Honduras who was being treated for cancer. And that's the problem here is when it comes to our border issues, we are focusing on it's just it's treated so broadly and so angrily so hatefully and there's no difference between these people the way that this administration is treating them is inhumane okay tim you wanted to jump in there hang on hang on go ahead bennyny. I'll follow up, Vinny. Yeah. Go for it, bro. And I appreciate you both.

Thank you. Thank you. And I appreciate it. First of all, that two-year-old was here with an illegal alien mother. And if the mother gets deported, Piers, the kids go with the mother. So stop that rhetoric. She's a two-year-old being treated for cancer. Excuse me.

Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. I'll let you speak. Please let me finish, okay? And you're talking about, well, you're talking about. First of all, let me back up. Americans can't afford a thousand dollars and they're struggling. That's because of the last administration. Trump just got here. That's number one. And you're are you truly genuinely talking about illegal?

You're talking about illegal immigrants, illegals that are here that are in freaking gangs that to join the gang. They have to kill people that sell drugs that beat in freaking gangs that to join the gang they have to kill people that sell drugs that beat the shit out of his wife we get rid of him is that who you're sticking up for are you honestly gonna sit here and say trump is just doing a broad any illegal no it's going after the illegals all right and you mentioned veterans i'm a united states air force veteran when i joined i swore an oath to the Constitution to protect this country of enemies foreign and domestic. And I never knew, Pierce, who was the domestic? You know what the domestic is? It's the people that flood this country with illegals. They don't

give a shit about a law. They weaponize the justice system. They try to kill our freaking president. And then when he tries to kick these people out, he's the mean one. I'm sorry. This is an argument that you are not going to win. Okay? There's absolutely no... He's talking about illegal gang members and you're sticking up for MS-13 members. Have you ever encountered an MS-13 member? Have you ever spoken to one of them? You know what they're about?

Hang on. Hang on. I'm going to come to Tim. We are conflating several different issues here because the issue of people being deported, many of whom are already on the deportation list and are convicted criminals, some of them for murder, rape and so on. I don't think many Americans have any sympathy, I assume, with those on a deportation list who've had the due process but haven't yet been deported,

now being deported. There is an issue about whether they should be put in prisons in El Salvador. I get that. But that's not to do with what's happened on the southern border. That's a different issue altogether. So, Tim, let me ask you the same question. You wouldn't naturally race to praise Trump for anything, but can you find it in yourself to say that what's happened on the southern border is a good thing? I can't.

And here's why. And I was happy to let my cousin Vinny over there go. I thought he was going to explode. He might have had a heart attack over there if we didn't give him a chance to good thing? I can't. And here's why. And I was happy to let my cousin Vinny over there go. I thought he was going to explode. He might have had a heart attack over there if we didn't give him a chance to talk. But here's the thing, Piers. I believe that, you know, look, I used to be a Reagan Republican, all right?

I believe that we were a shining city on a hill. I believe that we were a place where people should want to come if they're fleeing oppression. If we're talking about these Venezuelans in particular, they're in a communist country where they are being persecuted by a communist dictator. And I think that we should have an orderly process where people should be able to come from Venezuela to this country to be refugees like so many have before, like all of us have who came to countries, who came to America. That is what is unique about America. That's what makes America special, is that everyone,

except for the Native Americans, came here because they were looking for opportunity, because they were fleeing someplace else. And we created a system that was obviously totally out of control. And so bringing some control to that system is fine. But that doesn't mean zero people come in. I'm not happy about that. I want Venezuelans freeing communism to be able to come here. We need to create a system where people can come here. And you're saying that these people are coming illegally. We actually know for sure that at least a couple of the Venezuelans that were sent to El Salvador came through the legal process. You might not like that process, but they use the CB1 app. They said that they were refugees fleeing oppression. They went to a third country. In one case, a guy went to Colombia, just like you're supposed to. And then he was brought to Florida.

And that man has been sent to El Salvador. Maybe he's trying to Aragua. We don't know, because there wasn't a court hearing. I've talked a lot about the gay makeup artist, Andre. I'm sorry, Pierce, but so I look, I want people to come. I hear you. It's not good to be zero. We're America. Tim, I agree with you. We're not China.

Listen, I don't disagree with you about the due process issue. On the progressive left, you'll also have people at high levels of the party come out and say with a straight face, we think biological men should be in women's sport. And the moment most average Americans hear that, they do what you just did. They roll their eyes and go, you lot are insane. And you're doing it for a different reason. You're doing it because you think I'm insane for saying that. But I can tell you, as somebody who's always been pretty liberal, I think that strategy was completely insane. The idea that you would let your leaders go out and propagate such bullshit, which most Americans with any vein of common sense,

as you call it, know is bullshit. That then allows exactly what happened. The Republicans to run with that and say, look at these people, they're nuts. Yeah, I mean, I do think the Democratic Party has a messaging issue, but i think this is less about the democratic party and more about right-wing media which i watch and analyze

for a living or at least before i started running for congress uh there's been plenty of research talking about uh when people transition how it doesn't really impact uh their effects in sports this is a very very very tiny very tiny percentage of the population. No, no, it's complete bullshit. Sorry, I'm sorry. Can I please finish this? By the way, I'm not right-wing media in any shape or form. I'm not saying you are.

No, but I'm just telling you I'm not, and I think it's bullshit. Okay, this is the thing. Trans people's existence and even, like, the 40 people that are in sports isn't the big issue with women's rights. It isn't a women's rights issue. But it becomes one when you support obvious unfairness. That's the point. Can I please finish?

Sure. Thank you. The thing here is you have Republicans right now in the state at the federal level that are saying we need to check children's genitals to make sure that the right ones before they play that's a harm to children and women the save act which is going to stop millions of married women from being able to vote if they don't have their birth certificate and proof of their name change that's an actual harm to women trans people existing and in like one state that did a law against trans kids being in sports there was literally one trans child that was in any sport who was supported by their own team this is lawmakers at the state level people that are being paid that are full-ass adults that are bullying children so just to be clear okay so

just to be clear you would you would personally like it to continue you think it's perfectly okay for biological men to compete in women's sport. Is that your position? Yes. I don't mind trans women being in sports. Okay. Then Kat, with respect to you, I'm very glad you're not running this issue in America because it is grotesquely unfair to women. Vinny, final word to you, then I'll come to Tim for his final word. Well, she just said it. You're spitting out these numbers.

If one man tries to take away a scholarship from a female, that's anti-woman. And for you to sit there and act like it's not a freaking problem, it's happening more and more, like Pierce said, every single day. And that's the problem is this low number talk if one one girl is being affected and if there's men and women's bathrooms you guys make it seem like this is just we're just coming out of thin air and that's the problem pierce with the democratic party you heard it here first no vision no plan they're totally

fine with a male with testicles beating the shit out of women spiking volleyball in their freaking faces sending them to the hospital it's no no no no it's unbelievable that i'm happy you're exposing yourself because he nailed it this is why your party is going to keep losing over and over and over because you guys are standing on issues that it's so common sense men should play with men women should play with women and if you don't think it's affecting women go ask all these girls that are losing scholarships to men with freaking testicles that are beating the shit out of them in sports yeah unbelievable that you think like okay tim i mean i think tim the wider part i'm

gonna you know really get the whole trans thing but i I think the point is, as the Democrats try and find a new voice, a new way to compete and a new way to win, I just feel they have to go down the Gavin Newsom route of abandoning just propagating all this progressive far less stuff. Otherwise, they're just unelectable. Yeah, so just two thoughts on this. just one really quick on the moral bankruptcy of vinnie's position i just look i have a more nuanced view than cat does on on trans women in sports but the idea that having one trans woman in a swimming meet is unacceptable but i don't care if i wrongly sent but okay okay but i don't care but I don't care. But you don't care, apparently, if we wrongly sent one person to a concentration camp in El Salvador? If we wrongly, you don't care about due process.

It's a concentration camp. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You said you don't care about due process. Two different points. You're conflating two different points. No, I'm not. Two different points. And you're using the word concentration camp.

Tim, you're using the word concentration camp. So you're one of those people that's like, Trump is Hitler. Again, your dumbass party has watered down the name Hitler. The name Hitler isn't even strong anymore. Because you know what? You compare it with Trump, people go, oh, if Hitler's like Trump, then he's not that bad. Stop saying that. Guys, that's stupid rhetoric.

Concentration camp. You're an illegal gang member. Get the fuck out of my country. Period. You don't belong here. You have deportation orders. You're not supposed to be here. You beat your wife.

Bye. Bye. Okay, listen. Listen, listen, listen. Unfortunately, we have to wrap it up. All I would say is, Tim, in relation to your point, Tim, I actually think it is wrong to deport people to prisons in El Salvador without proper due process. And it's a much more serious matter. Don't be in a gang, Pierce.

Don't be in a gang. Well, Vinny, I have not seen yet enough evidence for my liking that this guy was a member of that gang. If there is, if there is, hang on, hang on. If there is, if there is, put it, hang on. If there is, if there is, put it out there. And then I may change my mind. But until I see it, I'm afraid I'm not satisfied. And I also think the trans issue is important. You guys think that they're lying?

Well, let's wait and see. Are they lying, Piers? Let's wait and see. You guys think they're lying. But initially, just to be clear, the administration initially said it was a mistake. Their words, not mine. Anyway, we've got to leave it there. Great panel.

Thank you all very much. I greatly appreciate it. We're going to move on to other subjects. Take a breath, Vinny.