Bulwark Takes - Tim Miller: Epstein Outrage Is Breaking Through!

Episode Date: July 27, 2025

Tim Miller joins Jen Psaki and Ezra Levin to discuss how the Epstein files are shaking up politics—fracturing Trump’s base, angering disengaged voters, and creating a rare opportunity for Democrats if they don’t blow it.

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If you have questions or concerns about gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. Ben MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey everybody, Tim O from the Bullwork. I was on with Jen Sackie last night and we were talking about an angle on this Epstein case I've been gotten into a bunch on this feed, so I wanted to share it with you. We were talking about the politics and how it may or may not impact the midterms.

And for me, there've been more pressing kind of matters from a legal standpoint, had an interweisman on yesterday, victim standpoint, talking about Stacey Williams, go watch that interview if you have it. But the politics of this obviously matter. At this point, it definitely seems like it will play some role in the midterms.

And so we talked a little bit about what and how the Democrats should talk about this issue, you know, as it relates to campaign politics. So I was on with Azure 11 as well over at Indivisible. They're already out there doing organizer-related to Epstein. They have some ads related to Epstein. And I think that's interesting. You know, my take was a little different. I don't, I think for like Democratic campaign strategists, always get immediately into TV ad mode. Like what can we do with the TV ad? But I think there are other ways to kind of be more authentic and credible in talking about this

issue. It's not like there aren't any vulnerabilities there for Democrats too. I mean, you know, the first thing that Republicans are obviously going to say, Republican voters are going to say, well, why didn't you do this when Biden was president? And I think they're good answers to that question. But so I think there are forums that I think lend more towards credibility on this if you're a Democrat. So we talked about that. Jen's obviously really smart on this. So stick around for that.

We're going to have much, much more on this next week. Subscribe to the feed. I'll go on a swamp tour with my kid and her friend, which is why you're seeing my shoulders right now. But I'll be back later if we got breaking news. And we'll be talking to you guys soon. Stick around for me, Jen and Ezra Levin of Indivisible. One of the questions, I mean, I've been thinking about, Tim, there's so much to be enraged

with about this story. There's transparency, there's the cover-up, there's the former personal attorney meeting with a sexual predator. I mean, there's lots of things, right? And I keep thinking about this woman, Maria Farmer, we had on last night, who's just one of so many victims here, and we don't talk nearly about much about that.

But one of the things that's interesting about this story from a political standpoint is people are enraged and they want them to be released, and the Republican base is divided and pissed off at Trump, but it doesn't mean Democrats or others are flocking to Democrats right now, right? We're not seeing that necessarily. What do you think? How do Democrats out there, people running for office, it doesn't have to be people in Washington, people who are trying to get engaged, talk about this in a way where it feels real and it feels authentic and it doesn't feel like it's just trying to take advantage of a political weakness on the other side.

Yeah, that just just I just want to say the Maria Farmer interview last night was really good and I was watching it and her testimony is so important because she was the first one to name Donald Trump and as associated with this way back in 96 the FBI. So anyway, that's very important. As for the Democrats in the politics of this, you know, look, the thing that the Democrats have struggled with most, if you look at all the demographic groups, so we don't always break these us campaign strategists, look at this demo and that demo.

The demo that Democrats have struggled with most are people that just aren't that engaged, right? Disengaged people. It doesn't matter men, women, race. And so this is an issue that they care about and understand and pay attention to, right? Like people that don't watch the news, don't watch this show, don't listen to my podcast, right?

They do know about the Jeffrey Epstein story and they do care about it. And so this is an opportunity for Democrats to talk to them about that. And I think that to your point about being authentic, if there are women democratic politicians that wanna talk about why this matters to them in particular, about their experience with sexual abuse or their experience helping survivors, they should do that. If there are guys, male politicians that want to go on bro

podcasts and make jokes about how Donald Trump is in there, I think that's a useful thing to do, right? I mean, I think this thing is broken through, you know, comedians like Shane Gillis and, you know, the Flakrant podcast have been teasing about this. So I just think the Democrats should not try to force this. I think what Ezra is doing is good, but they don't need to try to force it into a 30-second TV ad per se. You know, just look for opportunities to talk to voters and talk to them about this in a way that they might talk about it themselves. Ezra, just to add to that, I mean, one of the reasons I love talking with you is you're not you're not just looking at polls. You're not just making TV ads. You're actually talking to people who are moved by things. And sometimes it's unpredictable what people

are moved by and how they're moved by things. What have you heard from people out there who feel angry about this, who may wanna know when there's gonna be a protest they can participate in or wanna know what action they can take? What is moving them specifically? Over the last several months, we have seen a real transformation among the public.

I think people started out assuming that this guy was gonna consolidate power and have the ability to just to implement his agenda and there wasn't going to be pushback. I would put the Epstein files as one of the most recent but biggest breakthrough moments we've had with the population that largely, as Tim said, doesn't pay attention to politics.

And these are people who we desperately need involved. It's not enough to just reach out to folks who are politically engaged all the time. If you truly fear what Donald Trump's political project is, as I do, you understand that we can't just be organizing the same old people. We've got to be pulling new people in. So when we talk to organizers on the ground, what they are trying to do is to welcome new people into this movement. And whether you're coming here because you're worried about the secret police force that has now just been funded

to the hilt, whether you're worried about your Medicaid being cut off, maybe you voted for Donald Trump, and now you're concerned that this guy's just out for himself and exhibit A is him hiding what's in the Epstein piles, whatever it is, it's important to welcome people in. And so our folks on the ground who are organizing in red states and blue states and purple states

and rural areas and suburban areas and urban areas, they are there to welcome people in. And if it's the Epstein files bringing them in because that's what Brogue Group, great. Welcome to the club. And they are seeing this drive new people to start to question whether this guy is for real. And in my book, that's a good thing. We should take advantage of it and we shouldn't let Trump or anybody else change the subject. And the good news is we're headed into August recess early as a result of the Republicans

actions. They brought these weeks of members of Congress going back home to their districts to talk to their constituents early. It's starting now and they've got to go home and answer their constituents. And as you covered earlier, one of the top questions on people's mind is,

hey, what's happening with Epstein-Viles? Why aren't you voting to release those? Which is, I don't know if I'm surprised by it. I am a little surprised by it, frankly, but we are at the beginning part of August recess. We'll see, but it is interesting how it's manifesting itself out there. Let me ask you, Tim, just to put your Republican strategist hat on for a moment. You've spent many years in that world. I mean, what I can't wrap my head around here, figure out a bit, is Trump went further than

he has to date, basically suggesting a Maxwell pardon may be on the table today, right? And ABC has also reported on this proffer agreement for Maxwell. It doesn't feel, I mean, there are some who are excusing him in the Republican party, but the Manosphere in the podcast world seems to be still pretty enraged with him.

How do you think that sits? Like, what does that do to the divide that's happening right now? Yeah, well, here's the challenge. I'll do the challenge and I'll put my Republican strategist hat on. It's been a while, but I think it still fits. But the challenge for them is as much as outrageous as the facts of the story are. I think the biggest political issue for them is that Trump seems like such a normal politician right now.

Like, you know, the types of people that all these guys hate. He's covering up this story. He's protecting himself. He's protecting his rich buddies. I think, you know, you tie that to what we saw with the, you know, with the big bill that they put through Congress. And you can see this where like, as you mentioned, the Manosphere,

these podcasters are like, wait a minute, I thought this guy was supposed to be different than the other politicians. I thought he was supposed to be different than the other politicians. I thought he was supposed to be challenging the elite status quo. Like, and so you can see that trust connection being broken. Right. So how do you how do you rebuild that if you're Republicans? The answer to that question is, well, number one, the elections aren't for 15 months. So maybe we'll see how this break goes and we'll deal.

You know, come talk to me at Christmas. I'm going to go hide out and like, you know, hang out by the lake for a little while could really be the answer. But the other answer is what they're trying to do, right? And this is why they're trying to distract. This is why they're trying to do the Obama thing. How can you find other issues where you can get on the right side of that group and hope that this dissipates and that you can raise the salience of that?

And so I think that's and, or maybe within this issue, how can you find ways to go after democratic elites? And that's what I suspect they're trying to do with this insider corrupt deal with Ghislaine Maxwell. So I think that's where their heads are. I'm sure they want her to have something incriminating about one of the many Democrats they all have a conspiracy theory about.

We'll all just predict that's where they're headed or trying to. Ezra Levin, Tamilla, thank you both so much. I really appreciate you joining me.