Bulwark Takes - Tim Miller: Trump Has a MAJOR Problem — and the Dems Should USE It!

Episode Date: July 15, 2025

Tim Miller goes on MSNBC to break down how the Epstein story is turning into a real political vulnerability for Donald Trump, and why Democrats should lean into it. This scandal, once used to fuel MAGA conspiracy theories about Democrats is now coming home to roost for Trump and his allies.

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If you have questions or concerns about gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531- 2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. Ben MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with eye gaming, Ontario. Hey everybody. Tim Miller from the bulwark here. I was on MSNBC with my friends, chairman Michael Steele, who he missed on this YouTube channel. Simone Sanders, Alicia Menendez, Congressman Eric Swalwell was on and we were're just kind of chewing over this Epstein story and what are the implications and what is the Democrats' response to it? I reacted for the first time to what Hakeem Jeffries had to say. His plan was as far as what Democrats

in Congress can do to bring pressure to bear. I liked a lot what he had to say, gave a little additional add-on to that. Also, I've been looking online and watching what we've been seeing from some of the Democrats. Andrew Bates used to be a spokesperson for the administration. Put it this way, Democrats should be saying instead of going after the pedophiles on Jeffrey Epstein's client list, Trump gave them a tax cut. And it was interesting because Bates is more of an institutional Democrat, if you will. But I saw one of, I think it was one of AOC's advisors replying that this message is right on.

So you can see how that kind of spans the whole breadth of the party as an opportunity of a way to make an argument that wedges the other side, that hits on some populist economic themes, that hits Trump on an area of vulnerability when it comes to corruption and cover-ups. So, interesting conversation. Stick around. It's Alicia. It's Simone. Michael Steele, Eric Swalwell. Of course, truly. I was talking the most, obviously. Just blah, blah, blah. I've been on vacation. I got a lot to say. So stick around for all of that. I've got a fun little one with JVL. I'll be taping later. So subscribe to the feed and we'll be seeing you back here soon. Here's how the crowd at a conference for young conservatives reacted to the Epstein News

just this weekend. How many of you are satisfied you can clap? Satisfied with the results of the Epstein investigation? Clap. Okay, I told you to clap. Raise your hand if it matters a lot to you. Raise your hand. So every hand of 7,000 people you to clap. Raise your hand if it matters a lot to you. Raise your hand. So every hand of 7,000 people.

Everybody cares. This is the first big scandal I'd say of the Trump administration. It's one of the right's own making and it's not going well. Joining us now MSNBC political analyst Tim Miller. He hosts the Bullwork Podcast. Tim, it's very good to see you. Look, I think it's very good to see you. Look, I think it's important that we ground the conversation

in the fact that this conspiracy theory, and let's just be very clear, Epstein's crimes were real, but it is the surrounding narrative around them that is the conspiracy I'm talking about. This conspiracy theory is actually very central to the MAGA base. It's about a lot of things. Jeffrey Epstein is the perfect symbol

of this war on elites, if you will, that the MAGA Republicans often talk about. He helped give just a little bit of truth to a lot of the fringe pieces of the Internet that used to be QAnon and now are what I would call mainstream MAGA. This was about Democrats. This caught fire with Republicans, MAGA Republicans,

right-wing conservatives about Democrats. They said that Jeffrey Epstein was linked to Democrats. Now it's like a boomerang coming back around because the files and the lack thereof of the release or even now saying that they exist by the Trump administration and Pam Bondi are now coming home to roost and reflecting very badly on Donald Trump. Yeah for sure Simone. Look I think this is

important for two reasons like within the kind of Republican mind if you can get your head there. The first is that for a decade now and maybe more you know they've been pushing the actual conspiracy theory, right? That there was this democratic pedophile ring, you might remember Pizza Gate and the people that like went to try to find the kids in the basement of a pizza parlor in DC that doesn't have a basement, right?

Like this goes all the way back to 2016. And in this kind of narrative that you get from the Maggaret, right? There's this deep state, it's a shadowy group of elites. They protect each other, there's no accountability and we need an outsider like Donald Trump to come shake it up, right? And to hold them to account.

And then nevermind these elites are mostly Democrats but they also could be whatever bankers or Hollywood elites. And so then you have this case of Jeffrey Epstein where like that, it's kind of true of him, right? Like he was an elite that was convicted of, you know, trafficking young women. And he did have a lot of elite friends. So it kind of verified, you know, this narrative that they all had believed.

And so when Trump doesn't follow through on getting accountability for that, people are rightly upset, right? It's like, again, it's like they've been watching this show for 10 years or people tell them that Donald Trump's gonna get the bad guys, then, and then he says, oh, nope, nevermind.

You can understand why there's blowback to that. And then if you add on top of that, all the other like more real conspiracies that they have about Russia or the 2020 election or the pandemic. It's like, they were promised that Donald Trump and his DOJ was gonna go get all the bad guys that did all these things.

And if they can't even get Jeffrey Epstein's conspirators, then, you know, maybe they're in on it. There are two ways I wanna go with this. And I'm trying to figure out which way Alicia is going to go. So I can swing around the other corner so we can just kind of meet at this central point. Because I think I'm going to go with Hakeem Jeffries. Because he's closer to where I see some of this.

Let's listen to Hakeem Jeffries on the two options here. Option one, they lied for years. Option two, they're engaging in a cover-up. At this point it seems reasonable that can only be one of the two things. If you're not hiding anything, prove that to the American people. And if you are trying to hide something, as many of Donald Trump's MAGA supporters apparently believe, then the Congress should actually work hard

to try to uncover the truth. And that's kind of where I am, because here's the core thing to keep in mind. This whole thrust in the MAGA world about the Epstein files is that there's a list, there's a paper with names on it. And the presumption is that all the names on the list are Democrats. Okay, let's go with that.

But keep in mind, that list of Democrats included one Democrat, Donald Trump, right? Who was hanging out with Epstein when he was a Democrat. When he was swinging and writing checks to Hillary Clinton. When he was going out and partying with New York's elites. So all of this is around this idea that somehow we're going to produce a list that's going to have all these Democrats and the first Democrat on the list is sitting in the White House.

That's where I think this, this is where, this is the pullback, this is the sweet pullback. They get there and look at it and they go, oh hell no, we can't go, no, no, no, oh, no, no, no. And then what, it kind of makes sense then when Elon Musk puts out this sort of tweet, this sort of threatening tweet, okay, I'm in this, you know, you're on the list, Trump,

and then backs away from it. So what are you, am I, what am I doing here? Tell me what I'm doing, because I think I'm right about this. Look, we're all just like, I don't know, maybe this is true, maybe they're so true. I guess the point is it's not incumbent upon us to have a theory about whether it's true or not, that there's a cover up and Donald Trump's on the list.

We know his shadow president, his closest advisor for the first four months says he was on the list. We know the deputy director of the FBI, which was once a serious role, it's a podcaster that's doing it now, but like the deputy director of the FBI was threatening to quit over this.

So, okay, maybe all these people are clowns but like the deputy director of the FBI was threatening to quit over this so I Okay, maybe all these people are clowns and maybe this is all a big WWE show I don't know But those are serious roles if you're gonna be the top advisor to the president United States of the deputy director of the FBI And if those two people are saying there's they're there then I do think it's incumbent upon Hakeem Jeffries to look into it in Congress and they should and the only other thing I'd add to what Jeffries said was the thing that's different about this case politically

when he gave those two options, either it's a coverup or he's been lying for years. In this case, on the lying for years side, it would be that he's been lying for years to his own people. And I do think that's meaningfully different because I don't think MAGA voters, we know actually at this point, MAGA voters don't really care if Donald Trump lied to the public

about stuff to get elected right or lied to the media they don't care about that but if he was lying to them this whole time I do think that's a meaningfully different you know data point and why we're seeing kind of a different reaction than we have in the past from from those from that world. Within the Republican Party this has taken on a life of its own. How do you see or what's your best guesstimate of this narrative playing out? Is it something that Dan Bongino decides to show up back at work and just put his head down and move into that thing with no further noise?

Or does he step down? Or does the grassroots call for a more independent source away from the White House and the Department of Justice and the FBI to sort of get involved here? Yeah, far be it for me to get inside Dan Bongino's head, Chairman. Maybe he just pulls a Costanza and shows back up to work. I don't know what he's gonna do. But here's something I think is an opportunity is how this plays out.

I admire the Congressman's optimism that maybe his Republican colleagues actually do something on this one. I don't really share it, but I think that he should pressure them and we all should continue to pressure them to do something. And I know their voters will. Here's where I think it's vulnerable,

where it plays out, is, you know, I think Fox will stop talking about this, we've already heard that today, they'll get in line, the Trump sycophants will get in line on this and move on. But there are two groups of people that aren't. There's that group like the Manosphere of the Joe Rogans, the B.O. Vons, and Flakrant Potts, those guys, they weren't on board with Trump the first time. Like, they've got on late, and they truly cared about this Epstein story and covered it and talked about it to all their followers for years.

They're not just gonna stop talking about it now, and they've been mocking Trump, if you listen to those shows over the last few days, for trying to play them like fools. So that group's gonna keep talking about it. And then I think kind of the outsider MAGA world, for trying to play them like fools. So that group's gonna keep talking about it. And then I think kind of the outsider MAGA world, the Alex Jones, the Tuckers, the Candace Owens,

they're gonna keep talking about it because this is their bread and butter, the conspiracy material. So I think that there are gonna be some outside forces that pressure Trump that he doesn't have as much control over as kind of like the institutional MAGA or institutional Republican party Party if that makes sense We're gonna get the last word on this look I think the congressman. What do you think about what the congressman is saying about corruption because

maybe You look I Don't we always try to pick up the broad blush on this stuff, right? I think that there are definitely some voters that care about corruption. And I think that maybe the way I would frame it is there are a lot of voters that went along with Donald Trump because they thought he was anti-establishment. They might have gotten fooled by this, but you know, he'd been president before, so we could roll our eyes at it if we want.

But they thought that he was taking on the status quo. And I think those people are being disappointed by him. And whether it's about corruption, whether it's about the fact that he's taking on the status quo. And I think those people are being disappointed by him. And whether it's about corruption, whether it's about the fact that he's, you know, hasn't stopped the wars that he promised, that he hasn't brought down prices, I do think that those are all places of opportunity. And I think that the Epstein thing

plays into that a little bit.