Bulwark Takes - Tim Miller: Trump’s Can't Fix This—Obama, Talk to the Bros

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

Tim Miller joins Nicolle Wallace on MSNBC's Deadline: White House to discuss the need for Barack Obama to step off the sidelines and speak directly to younger male voters on popular podcasts. Tim also argues Trump can’t solve the real pain Americans are feeling and says Democrats need to meet people where they are to counter his message.

Rural communities are being squeezed from every side. From rising health care costs to crumbling hospitals, from attacks on public schools to the fight for paid family and medical leave, farmers and small businesses are reeling from the trade war. And now, Project 2025 is back with a plan to finish what Elon Musk started. Trump and the Republicans won rural votes, then turned their backs on us. Join the One Country Project for the Rural Progress Summit, July 8th through the 10th.

This free virtual event brings together leaders like Senator Heidi Heitkamp, Secretary Pete Buttigieg, Governor Andy Beshear, and others for real talk and real solutions. Together we'll tackle the most urgent issues facing rural America. Register today or learn more at ruralprogress.com. Hey everybody, just got off with Nicole Wallace

and we talked about two really important topics we haven't really gotten to on the channel. So I wanted to show you both of those. The first was President Obama gave a panel, I believe it was Heather Cox Richardson we've had on the show, where he was talking about the threats to democracy here and how he wants essentially the liberal elites or centrist elites, however you want to put it, to stiffen their spine and to not fold when they're pressured and about the importance of that and about how that might require a little sacrifice and that's okay. So we talked about that. I threw just a hint of shade at the old president about the forum for that and I just I kind of wanted him to expand his remit a little bit. I think it's an easy ask, but you can check that

out. And, and then with Justin Wolfers, we've had on the show, we also talked about economic numbers today, which were just, they're brutal, and they're not like catastrophic Great Depression, but they're ugly, and not good and not promising, both on the economic growth and job side and on the inflation side. So we get into that. So stick around for both. We'll be back here soon.

Subscribe to the feed if you haven't. Why haven't you subscribed? Subscribe. We'll see you soon. Former President Barack Obama issued a stark warning last night about how weak our democracy has become. The former president saying we are dangerously close to our government operating like an autocracy.

And he warned that democracy requires government workers, judges, and lawyers at the Justice Department to uphold the Constitution and follow the law. Saying this, quote, "'It requires them to take that out seriously. And when that isn't happening, we start drifting into something that is not consistent with American democracy. It is consistent with autocracies. It is consistent with Hungary under Orban. He went on, quote, we're not there yet completely,

but I think that we are dangerously close to normalizing behavior like that. And we need people both outside government and inside government saying, quote, let's not go over that cliff because it's hard to recover. Tim, he also said this, quote, let's not go over that cliff because it's hard to recover. Tim, he also said this, quote, you could be as progressive and socially conscious as you wanted and you didn't have to pay a price before he said.

You could still make a lot of money, you could still hang out in Aspen and Milan and travel and have a house in the Hamptons and still think of yourself as a progressive. We now have a situation in which all of us are going to be tested in some way, and we're going to have to decide what our commitments will be.

Now things are a little different. You might lose some of your donors if you're a university, and if you're a law firm, your billings might drop a little bit, which means you can't remodel that kitchen in your house in the Hamptons this summer. I mean, it's Obama cool, but it is dripping with disdain for people choosing comfort and

their corporate clients over standing up for democracy. And I wonder what you thought of that, Tim. Yeah, a couple of different thoughts. One, I share his disdain. Sometimes it's hard to keep down for people that are not standing up in this moment, because we're kind of still at the easy part of standing up, if we can just be honest. Like we have a, we certainly have creeping authoritarianism, but you know, if you're on the Harvard board or you're one of these law firms, and we've seen some folks do the

right thing in law firms, and we should acknowledge that, but the ones that haven't, boy, folding right now is not a great sign when things get hotter in the the kitchen The other thing that I would say about what he said It was it reminded me I was talking to Ben Rhodes his former national security advisor this morning For the podcast and Ben pointed out something just about where we are in this process towards authoritarianism I hadn't thought about which is that like he's like we always say well We might get to Hungary and in a lot of ways Orban has grabbed You know power in a more authoritarian manner than Trump has. But there are some things that Trump is doing right now that isn't really happening in Hungary. There aren't

military on the streets of cities. Opposition leaders aren't getting manhandled like Brad Lander and Alex Padilla. So in some ways, we're past that. And that's good perspective. The last thing about Obama, you mentioned the Obama cool. Far be it for me to give him advice, but I'd like to hear President Obama making those points with Joe Rogan and Theo Vonn and like got in bro pods, not with like academics on panels. I just think that he has a higher and better purpose in this moment.

So that's just my, my friendly request. Tim, the, the president getting at this liberal elite piece is so interesting because the the Republican smear against the Obama's is that they, you know, they just run in all these elite circles. And as most former presidents are technically elites, right? They serve their country and they're in an elite group of former presidents. But he is uniquely situated to call out people who haven't necessarily served their country

but are super comfortable. He talks about going to Aspen and Milan. I don't know what happens in Milan. I'll have to Google that. But this idea that there are still people on the sidelines is interesting coming from him. It is. I appreciate that. I appreciate what Mark just said.

I guess that goes to what I was saying at the end there about what I wish he was doing because the President Obama I think has a unique ability to influence certain demographics, right? It's like Fox News viewers are not going to listen to President Obama so it probably doesn't make a lot of sense for him to use his time doing that or to pop off the daily news cycle as you said. This is one area where he can, he can name and shame the kind of maybe not even liberal but like the centrist elite class, right, and try to pressure them to do the right thing. I think that's very useful and I'm happy that

he's doing it and because we have seen folding in various places and maybe he can help step in the spine of folks who admire him or who you know he might you know might run in those circles. And then again just back to kind of this this talk, I just I do think there's an opportunity there for Democrats and the Democrats need to really, really work on it. And probably as good as a $20 million plan or whatever it is for some from some consultants would just be Barack Obama is going out there and leveling with people. And so anyway, I think those are both two audiences, it's very useful for him talking, and I do think it's noteworthy who he's trying to speak to. Well, I guess I would put Senator Alyssa Slotkin in the mix too. I mean, calling them out, telling Pete Hegsley doesn't know the balls to do what his predecessor did before him.

I think that's some straight talk that is welcome. I don't know if they melt in the atmosphere when they get delivered inconvenient truths like that, but it was certainly refreshing to hear her speak so bluntly. I call him too late, Powell, because he's always too late. I mean, if you look at him,

every time I did this, I was right, 100%. He was wrong. Maybe I should go to the Fed. Am I allowed to point myself? He's not a smart person. I think he hates me, but that's okay. You know, he should. He should. I call him every name in the book trying to get him to do something. I'm nasty. I'm nice. Nothing works. He's like just a stupid person.

Way too deep inside the mind of Donald Trump. That might be what it looks like when Trump doesn't get what he wants out of someone. He reveals his strategy of smearing him on a daily basis. That was Trump today blasting Fed Chair Jerome Powell for refusing to cave to his bullying, his demands that he cut interest rates. This afternoon, the Fed did not cave. It declined to lower rates again. Why, you might ask.

Well, it could have something to do with Donald Trump's tariff policy, which remains in constant flux, completely incoherent. According to CNBC, Powell and his colleagues have expressed hesitation about adjusting rates with so many open questions regarding the Trump economy. For one, the long-term impact of Trump's tariffs is a known unknown. Joining our conversation, Professor of Economics and Public Policy at the University of Michigan, Justin Wolfers, Tim Miller is here as well. Justin, it seems perfectly logical, even without a background in economics, that you can't

change rates one way or the other when you have no idea what's happening with Donald Trump's global trade war. Yeah, and that's basically what Fed Chair Powell said today. He said, I don't know whether I'm going to be making policy for a high tariff world or a low tariff world. I could start to shift the lever right now in order to figure that out. But why don't I just sit tight for a while and wait and see how things pan out? And honestly, that seems like a pretty useful way forward.

Tim Miller, you know, my obsession with the best people brand, I've stolen it. I've reappropriated it for my own podcast. But it seems that every problem he's having right now has its roots in what he thought was going to make his second presidency a roaring success. He thought by picking the worst people at their particular areas of expertise, but who may have been the most loyal to him instead, that he would have smooth sailing. It is the opposite. It is why he is so bogged down on his trade war. It is why he has his key members of his coalition

warring wherever they show up to war on Iran. I mean it is why everything is a mess and his approval ratings are plunging by the day. Yeah that's absolutely right and I'm into your new podcast. I saw Doc Rivers was on there which I was pretty jealous of. So just a little competitive jealousy there. But as far as his best people, best people, here's the thing about this time versus the last time. I think we focused a lot rightly on how he will have all these enablers around him this time and how that makes things more dangerous on the authoritarian spectrum we talked about

in the last segment. But it's also true that he has worse people around him when it comes to the implementation of policy. And economic policy in particular, right? Like what you have is this kind of Frankenstein monster of the worst elements of Republican right-wing policy of the past, right? Like he has this huge debt-busting tax bill that is going through the hill. None of the debt hawks or deficit hawks from past Republican worlds are out there, except for Tom Massey, shouting a loan into the ether.

So we're going to have a huge increase in the deficit, which is going to increase everybody's interest rates. And then on the tariffs, you have Howard Letnick, and you barely have anybody trying to stop him from doing the tariffs this time He's talked out a few times But like we still have tariffs going in at a much higher rate than we did last time and then on immigration You already you're seeing the the old Chamber of Commerce Republicans trying to be like whoa Can you chill out on some of the deportation of the workers and and and and he thought about doing that for a day?

But it seems like they're not doing that. So you combine all that, and you have higher prices for everything for cause of the tariffs, higher prices because you're gonna have a worker shortage, higher prices because of the tariffs on the actual equipment that they're supposed to be building with in construction sites, and higher interest rates on everybody

because the deficit is skyrocketing. It's just like, it's bad policy. It's significantly worse economic policy than the first time. And I think that sometimes that gets lost because it's a little wonkier than the other topics. But it's pretty clear at this point, six months in. Yeah, it also turns out to be the biggest political betrayal in modern presidential politics. Trump ran until election day on making quote, the grocery cheaper. He says they talk about the grocery and the grocery and then literally in the transition

says, oh no, it's going to be really hard to make things go down. They might actually go up. Is the president okay with this bill adding to the deficit? This bill does not add to the deficit. In fact, according to the Council of Economic Advisers, this bill will save $1.6 trillion. There's $1.6 trillion worth of savings in this bill. That's the largest savings for any legislation that has ever passed Capitol Hill in our nation's history.

Tim, even on Earth four, where like I don't think you can say that on Earth two or three, like what is what is she talking about? I think she's just going to the Sean Spicer School of Press Secretary there. I guess just a lie. It's just like a blatant. Yeah, it's just like a blatant lie. I don't believe you're lying. Guys type lie. Here's the thing, though, on on economics unlike some of this other stuff It's hard to get your lies to sink in with people because people feel it and they'll know it But we had a new report out today That they revised down what we think the GDP is gonna be they revised up what they think inflation is gonna be So they can go they can you know shout from the podium about how everything's great

But people know how much things cost in their lives. And it becomes a much more challenging thing to spin than some of the other B.S. that Trump spins. And Justin, what are the consequences for the economy here on Earth One, where we all reside, to the big, not so beautiful bill? So the first thing is huge effect on the deficit. The thing I want you to understand is the deficit right now, right now is the largest it's been in the pre-COVID economy. Of course, things went haywire with COVID. They're taking that deficit and they're adding to it.

So the nonpartisan congressional budget office says somewhere between two and a half and three trillion dollars and pretty soon now we're to be talking about real money. The implication of that is interest rates are going to go up. But the real kitchen table part of this is a deficit is not just how much we, the budget is not just how much we spend versus how much we take in. It's who we give what to. And it turns out that the top 10% gain from this and every other decile loses, particularly working in

middle class Americans. They stand to lose on the order of one to two thousand dollars per family each year as a result in order to pay for those tax cuts for the wealthy. Tim, the political betrayal is a real hallmark of this administration in that in 1.0 he tried to cleave off his own supporters from the damage that he did to the country, to the rule of law, to other things. There's no way to protect what he sees as his people from his economic damage. No, there really isn't. And there is betrayal.

I mean, you could try. There's certain things you could do. And the first term, like a classic example of this with the terrorists is this massive bailout for the farmers. Right, like the farmer bailout for the first term, I think, cost more than the entire State Department. And so, you know, maybe they do other stuff, put little goodies in this bill. But, yeah, inflation affects everybody. And it's going to continue to, and he's not going to be able to fix it.