Bulwark Takes - Top Democratic Fundraiser: There’s No Saving Ken Martin (w/ Rufus Gifford)

Episode Date: July 30, 2026

The Democratic National Committee is facing growing criticism from within its own ranks—and now one of the party's most prominent fundraisers is speaking out. Sam Stein sits down with veteran Democratic fundraiser Rufus Gifford to discuss why he believes DNC Chair Ken Martin is failing at the two most important parts of the job: raising money and delivering a clear message. Gifford explains why he thinks the committee is spending too much on long-term party-building while critical Senate and House battlegrounds need every available dollar ahead of the midterms.Read more from Lauren's reporting on Ken Martin: https://www.thebulwark.com/p/its-gone-from-bad-to-worse-to-perilous-dnc-finance-fundraising-ken-martin-democrats-moneyVisit https://Upwork.com right now and post your job for free.

Hey, everyone, it's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at The Borg, and I am pleased to be joined by Rufus Gifford, who is the finance guru extraordinaire of the Democratic Party. He's held so many different titles, raise so much money for Democrats that it's impossible to pinpoint one who benefited the most, probably Obama. I will say we're having Griffith on to talk about people who are having trouble raising money, the Democratic National Committee and the issues that are taking place there with its chair, Ken Martin. Rufus, thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it. Thanks, Sam. Very happy to be with you. The reason I want to have you on is you took what I thought was kind of a rather extraordinary step, not something that you normally do, to pen a substack post about the current situation at the DNC for those that are not caught up. The Democratic National Committee is really lagging in fundraising. It's in debt. There's been calls for the Cherkin Martin to step down. There's been a lot of drama there. Rufus, you wrote this substack post where you said the DNC is quote spiraling to. towards irrelevance. You warned that they were failing, or Martin was failing it as two main jobs,

which you said were raising money and messaging relentlessly on the media. You said, quote, at this point, I think there's no saving Martin's chairmanship. And then you said, God willing, we will win in November, despite the brand of the national party, our superior candidates or superior campaigns in Trump's disastrous regime will likely propel us. I guess I have to start with, why did you feel compelled to do this? Oh, Sam, you know, it isn't it. It's, I love that place and that's, you know, when I wrote that place, I led with that. I've worked at the DNC so many different times over different chapters of my life starting in 2004 and then most recently hand in hand with them in 2024. And it's hard to do it. I will say this and I'll be very

frank with my thought process here. I've been frustrated for a while now, a good year plus. It seemed to me that it, there were, the stories that were coming out of the building were internal squabbles and kind of lack of money and not what I think we all need to be focusing on, which is laser focused on winning elections, rebuilding an obviously devastated party. And that got, but I will say something I, you know, held my tongue most of last year. And then I think something really happened to me in March, which was something that I thought was unthinkable a year ago was possible. And that was, the Democrats have really a serious shot of taking the Senate.

Still a reach, map's still tough, of course. But a combination of Canada recruitment, Trump's weakness, all the rest, it's, the map is starting to look more favorable. And I think it's a real possibility, tough but a real possibility. And thus I threw all of my focus into that and continue to. And the problem that I have right now is that the National Party, the DNC, in my mind, always just needs to be a team player in a midterm elections. I've been at the DNC in a midterm election in many ways what the building needs to be doing is working with the DS and the DTrip

to ensure that their committees and their candidates are well funded. It's a narrow path to a Senate and a House majority, but that's what we, this is existential Sam in every way. I think this is the most important midterm election in a century. And we need to be laser focused on it. And then what I saw was the DNC, not just, and I think sometimes it's, sometimes it's, oversimplified by saying that they're struggling to raise money. The real challenge, Sam, is the reckless spend and the unfocused reckless spend, because as they tout constantly and probably rightly so, that they're doing an okay job raising money. It's much more about where they are spending it. And the fact that we're entering August in this critical election year in debt when they need to be

cash rich. And thus, like, to me, that falls squarely on leadership. And I, and that's why I took it on. And I don't regret it. You're right. It's not something I would typically do, but I don't regret it. How's the response been? You know, I will say this. I wrote the piece, and I wrote it somewhat, going back a little bit, I hosted the DSEC on Saturday night. And one of the things that was clear out of the briefings that we had over the course of the weekend was that they were having to make up for a fundraising gap that was that they had typically in any other cycle they would have expected from the DNC. And that was frustrating to me because it made it made a very D&C transfers, traditionally transfers money to committees. Yeah. And every other cycle, I think it's

certainly in modern history, that's what's happened. And now that they have a gap in their budget. And they'll fill it and we'll figure out how to fill it. That's part of the conversations we are having. But then it frustrated me to no end because it was clear in these existential moments. as I said before, where we have the possibility to have a Democratic Senate to, you know, block the horrific Trump nominees that potentially protect the Supreme Court. All of this would be predicated on a Democratic Senate majority. And we're messing around after last weekend with giving money to the state parties of Guam. I just, I couldn't take it anymore, Sam.

I really couldn't take it anymore. And because, you know, we, and so I just, I just. just couldn't really hold back. I wrote the article. I couldn't sleep all night. I wrote the article first thing in the morning. I honestly didn't know how it would be respond. I didn't show it to anybody. How people would respond? I didn't show it to anybody. I actually went on a bike ride because I'm kind of on vacation this week. And when I got back after an hour, my phone had exploded the likes of which I hadn't seen in a very, very long time. It struck a nerve. And so the answer to your question is how it's been responded. I will say the response I've gotten

has been overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly supportive of what I said. And in particular, the Dems on the inside. So that's, that's, that's, that made gay. And I was nervous, I'll tell you. My husband, I was, I was like, God, did I go too far? My friends, did I go too far? Did I do something stupid here? And, but I don't think I did.

I think that the words needed to be said. Did Ken Martin reach out to you? I don't, I don't want to get into the, like, I had to ask. I know you do. There's been an attempt at outreach out. I have not connected with Ken. I have not heard from him since I won't.

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It's free to sign up and posting a job is easy. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That's Upwork.com to connect with top talent, ready to help your business grow. That's UPW-O-R-K. upwork.com. So you say there's not really a fundraising problem, but I think the data doesn't

quite, I mean, I understand the problem you have is with the spend. But there is clearly a problem on the money raised too, because if you just compare it to the RNC, it's night and days, our Irwin-Lornegan reported about this stuff and everyone else too.

I think that the disparity is that the DNC has $2 million in debt. RNC now has $128 million cash on hand. I mean, That's not just a spend problem. And I'm curious what your theories are on the money raising side, because you deal with these people, you ask people a lot of times to write checks for political causes. Yeah. What's the issue here?

And as part of it, the threat of getting on Trump's target list. You know, I think it's less, look, the answer is I don't think so. Because, look, I mean, I'm hosting an event for James Tala Rico on Sunday. this thing is, you know, sold out and people are flooding money at our candidates. So I think it is less that. I think most Democrats are fired up. They're angry. They see leaders that they want to support.

It's not that our candidates are having a shortage of money. I will say that the national brand, and we know this, this has been reported over and over again, is in it's terrible. It's terrible. And I don't think there has been enough of an effort. and this is in part, you know, the National Party needs to do a good bit to, like, rebuild the brand after 2024. And I don't think that's been effective. And this is part of my, like, my messaging argument.

I think especially when you don't have the White House, especially when you don't have a de facto leader of the party, there's no sort of former president who wants to really put themselves out south out there politically right now. The chair of the Democratic Party is the logical person to actually help try to message. And I just don't see that happening. obviously you have people like Leader Jeffries and and Leader Schumer and they have their own lanes but you don't have somebody who can just go on TV over and over again and hit that message home and I think that's

damaging the dumb brand so I know I'm not answering your question directly. No but it's an interesting point you bring up because it is obviously we're talking a lot about the money element but the messaging element because you I think properly diagnosed there's two buckets here for the DNC chair it's raising and spending money and then it's messaging it's uncommon how little we see Ken Martin out there in public. And when we do see him in public, it's almost always an effort to defend his own reputation.

And I feel like that gets underappreciated a little bit. Yeah, I think that's fair. And I am someone who believes that fundraising is connected to absolutely everything else you do. So you don't raise money in a vacuum. You don't raise money because you have the best fundraisers out there. You have to sell something. And the problem is that it's not been particularly well articulated what an investment in the DNC means. And frankly, most of the stories out there are that we're spending money on, you know, frivolous projects like giving money to the state parties of American territories.

Just just in fairness. And you can push. Let's just do the push back here. He would say, I am sending money to the state parties. I'm building Democratic Party apparatuses in places that have been neglected over the years. If we're going to become relevant in the long term, we can't just seed the South and the Mountain West and all that stuff. We have to have to have to start at some point in that point. And now, why is that wrong?

No, I think everything you just said is absolutely right. As long as it is not at the expense of the races that. you absolutely need to win now. So I am fine with investing in the North Dakota and Washington, D.C. Democratic Party nationally at a much, much lower level, right? But if we do not have money nationally to spend and say the seven critical states to win back the Senate, and then, of course, the red to blue house races to win back the House, that has got to be first priority. And leadership in these spaces, in my mind, is dictated by making those tough choices. It is not blanketly sending money to every state party.

And I also think, look, I think you can do that. And I hope that it can be done because we do need to build the bench. We do need to undo a lot of these super majorities in these bright red states. All that is important. But again, Sam, we have the most important election, midterm election coming up. And we can't take our eye off the ball. So for me, like, Democrats need to be united in that goal, that specific goal. And we need to be marching in lockstep.

All the party committees, the donor base, the activists, the organizers, everybody needs to be in lockstep in order to achieve those goals. It is doable. But like Democrats, so often we can't get out of our own way. And I really do things true. And I really, really do think that all of us, like those of us who, you know, people talk to the press all day long. on. And, you know, in this piece, I put my my face and my name and my reputation behind it. And I just think more people at this time and these critical moments need to speak out because not good enough can't be acceptable. It cannot be acceptable right now in the trumpet minute when we are fighting

MAGA and what is what he is doing to our democracy. Okay. Speak about to what end. Like, what would you like to see happen between now and November with respect to specifically the DNC? Well, what, so my biggest concern right now, Sam, is that I think we're going to win in November. And, and I think that's because of our superior candidates, the organizations that are being built in the states and the work that's being done. Look, and I will tell you this, heading into 2027 when the DNC comes kind of in focus, because the DNC is kind of the, in the presidential election cycle that comes in focus. I will be doing everything I possibly can to raise money for the DNC, whoever the chair of the DNC is. But I think right now, unless there is a significant shift in priority, and let's also like a little bit of humility and perhaps just some attempt to show that like, look, things aren't working right now. let's try to turn this around, asks for help, and really all getting on the same page here.

I just don't know that the status quo is going to work. I think there are a lot of possibilities. I have no power here, Sam, other than my soapbox. I'm not a DNC member. I'm not like, I can't vote. I don't know. I would like to see, as I said in the piece, I would like, I've always wanted to see at this moment in time, someone who is a kind of a marquee name, who has relationships across the country, who's able to go on TV as often as possible, able to call every donor known to man.

That person be the face of the party. I would love that. I think actually can, who I have nothing against personally. He's a personally nice, perfectly nice guy, but I don't think he has been successful in this piece. And so, and I think they are the most important pieces if you're going to be DNC Char. So that's my challenge. So what happens? I don't know right now. I just, want to be laser focused, which is what I am laser focused on, on raising money for House and Senate candidates and the candidate committees, making sure that money is spent wisely and we can win. After November, I think that conversation does need to happen because I do not want in any way for this party to be limping into January. I want this party to be like pounding their chest into January. So if I'm just, I want to make sure I'm summarizing correctly, and then I'll let you go, because you're on Nintuckin, and you should be doing other things than talking to me on Riverside here. No change at the top of the DNC prior to November?

I mean, look, I don't, what I hope happens. I mean, you did say there's no saving his chairmanship. That's your word. So clearly you think someone, he needs to go. I think that's fair. No, I look, I don't, I think that we have given him a chance to succeed and I haven't seen the change needed over the course of the last year when some of these early stories broke about money and spend and some of the internal management squabbles. I don't, I have lost faith. That being said, I don't get to make a decision. I don't get to make these decisions. So whether or not he stays as chair, I don't get to have a voice. What I do hope happens is that whether he stays as

chair and there's some sort of co-chair dynamic, someone else comes in to help try to do some of the external forward-facing work, the person going on TV, the person doing that lion's share of the travel and the money raising all that. That's happened. before there is precedent for it, I'd be okay with that too. I just think that we need to acknowledge that there is a problem here and that we address it as the party broadly. Have you talked to Rahm about this yet? I mean, everyone's just sort of like, ROM's got to do this, right? But I don't know if people want ROM. He's an acquired taste. Well, right. I don't know. You know, there's, well, we could talk about this all day line.

Look, I think that Rom would be a fantastic person to be in that position. I will say I would like there to be folks who want to take that job who believe in it for the sake of rebuilding the party. So, and that's like, I don't have any selfish interest here. I don't. People like cast me all the time was that your substack some sort of play for a put your name to put your name in the mix for new DNCJ. I don't think that's true. I have a good life. Yeah.

What I want is, by the way, I will, I will sign up to do whatever I can to help the DNC. I'm pretty, to help the DNC at 2027. I'm not saying that. But it's my goal here is to try to identify the right people. And they should be pressured. Not everyone just running for president for the sake of running for president. But I think this role is a vital role to help rebuild this party at this critical moment in time in advance of the most important presidential election, perhaps in American history in 2020.

They say that every time. But there might be right this time. I know I do. I do say it, Sam. And you've heard me, so many people have heard me say that before. But like, tell me, with everything on the line, with everything on the line, we just need the A team. Do you ever look back to like 2012 when you're like Mitt Romney versus Obama and the most important election?

Like, wait a second. The fact that my first, like literally my first two major, I did 04, but 08 and 12. I literally thought, you know, John McCain and Mitt Romney and even in 2004, George W. Bush, like, they were, everyone, everyone, I can't, I shake my head every day to what the, what the Republican Party has come to, what this country that we've all loved so much has come to. And we just got to, we got to just do absolutely everything we can to turn it around. And so that's, that's why I say what I say. And I just don't think we can hold our tongues any longer. And frankly, if the, if, if, if, if the, if, if, if, if the, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if leadership of the DNC of Ken, if the DNC members decide he is the guy for the future, even though I have voiced my opinion, I am all in ensuring that we have the best and strongest candidate in 2028. I'm not going to burn the house down on this by any stretch of the imagination. I voice my opinion. It's gotten some people. It's gotten some tongues wagging. I know that. And I think that's ultimately a good thing because we can't, Democrats for far too long have accepted

not good enough, have made excuses. for people and candidates that are flawed. And we all know what we're talking about. I won't say anything more on that. But I don't think we can do that anymore. And we have to expect the best, the strongest. We need fighters and we need people. You know, we need the best in these jobs.

And I'm not sure. And I think that's falling short right now. And that's why I speak out. Okay. Well, Rufus, thank you so much. Thank you much. Really appreciate the time. Rufus Gifford, a longtime Democratic fundraiser, soon to be the chair of the Democratic Party of Guam. Nope. Oh. I don't know where they take me. I have been to Guam once, but I don't even know why we have a Democratic Party of Guam, but I'm sure there's someone who can tell me why.

Okay. Yeah. All right. Rufus, thanks so much, man. Really appreciate it. Thank you soon.