Bulwark Takes - Trump Trolls, Dems Lecture—Guess Who Wins? (w/ Arthur Delaney)

Episode Date: October 1, 2025

Sam Stein and Arthur Delaney take on the latest government shutdown, why Democrats dug in over health care subsidies, and how Republicans are playing politics with rescissions and canceled projects. Tickets to Bulwark Live in DC (10/8) with Sarah, Tim and JVL are on sale now at https://TheBulwark.com/events.

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Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. But MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. All right. Hey, everybody. Sam Stey, managing out of the Bullwark, joined by Arthur Delaney, a fan favorite from Huff Post. He's up on the hill, as you can tell, by the tight confines of where he's sitting. And we're going to be talking about the government shutdown. Artie, what's going on, man? The government shut down, but I'm still at the Capitol. We're still doing stuff over here. This part of the government's still open. What number shutdown is this for you? I'm not sure

there's been some really dinky ones and people wondering if this will be a big one or not don't know yet I asked that because I remember my first shutdown was in the Obama era or shutdown fight I should say and it was like a big deal like people were freaking out and

running around and really like concerned about the possibility of the shutdown and this doesn't feel like that. This feels almost like matter of course. I agree. I think just through sheer repetition, the drama is much less this time, even though the effects are significant, just like they were in the previous times.

Like, we've done this before. Yeah. All right. So set the stakes. Like it's 3 o'clock. It's Wednesday. We've been shut down for 15 hours now. where do negotiations stand and what are the sticking points?

There are no negotiations. No, that's not true. There's talks. Well, yeah, there's like a few senators were huddling on the Senate floor and, you know, we could all see them. So we're like, ooh, what were you talking about in the Republicans or, you know, Mike Rounds, the senator from North Dakota was like, yeah, well, we were just, we're not going to negotiate while the government's shut down. But we saw you. We saw you talking. What is the distinction between a talk and a negotiation?

I don't know. It's something that won't be done as publicly as that. But Democrats need a way to climb down. They definitely are the ones who precipitated this by not voting for a clean government funding bill, which they've always said is what you've got to do. That said, I mean, they are a part of the process. They, they, Republicans, sounds like you're blaming the Democrats here. I mean, Democrats are part of the process.

They do need to vote in order to get something through the Senate. And Senate Republicans were just like, screw you guys. They made no effort to get them along. Even as they say, we agree with you that we should do something about the expiring Obamacare subsidies. And to, to be fair to Democrats, this is like the biggest thing happening in federal health. care policy for years to come. Like, it's not, you know, they picked this fight, but they did pick it on a big topic where they happen to have very favorable polling.

Right. So these, the premiums are going to shoot up because the subsidies are expiring at the end of the year, but insurers have to set the premiums in anticipation of what they imagine the marketplace to be. So this is happening. It's a big deal. I guess you would know this better than that because you're up there. But like, for me, obviously, that's the more favorable terrain.

But, like, to me, it seems like the more logical reason to say, we're not going to give you our votes, Democrats to say that, is because of recisions. So, in essence, what's happening is that they're making these bipartisan agreements about spending, but then on a party line vote, Republicans are undoing those agreements. So, like, that to me sucks out all the reason for Democrats to partake in a negotiation. But I don't really hear many Democrats offering that up as their reason for not voting for a bill. Am I missing something? No, you're right. Recision is it just, it doesn't get on TV. If you're here, talking to them a lot, it does come up a lot.

And it is one of their main side of justifications for what they're doing. It's not just that Republicans, you know, did a funding deal in March and then on partisan basis undid it. The administration also unilaterally undid several billion dollars in foreign aid funding. So your Democrats have pointed out repeatedly, we're supposed to agree to a deal that you then don't honor. Yeah, like what the fuck? Right. So, yeah, that is part of it. I've been hearing that today.

but I don't think people out there care too much about that. It's like arguing about democracy and checks and balances, which I guess is deemed too abstract. I guess. If I were your editor still and I made you do a story and then I just rewrote all the story, you would stop doing story. No, you would continue. You just described the process.

So the other thing that's happening today is that Russ spot OMB chief is just going around being like, I'm not going to spend money on this blue state project. And you know what? I just decided I'm not going to do this blue state project. And like, I'm not sure he has any real authority to do that. But like, he's just doing it. And so like, what is the reaction on the hell of that? He's also being like brazenly partisan about it. Like I am canceling green news scam subsidies in the following states. And it's like every state that's democratic? I will say there were two non-states that weren't run by

Democratic governors among the list, but they're like both North East. There's like Vermont and New Hampshire. So it's pretty obvious. This is this I mean, goes pairs well with the argument about rescissions, which is that the administration not only does not honor us as a co-equal branch of government, but is flat out lawless.

Yeah. You're not, these rescissions and, uh, And probably these grant or project cancellations are not lawful or constitutional. And I talked to Chris Murphy from Connecticut about it. And he said, well, this just makes us want to dig in even more. This just steal their funds. Can you just go around and ask Republican senators? Like, if you were in the, if the shoe were on the other foot and the Democratic OMB was just canceling projects and rescinding funds, like wouldn't you not vote for an appropriations?

I'd be very curious to know, like, how they rationalize that. Igor, Bobbich, and I talked to a couple Republicans for a story we're doing Wednesday. And so Jim Justice, I was like, you think that I asked him, should the administration just go ahead and fire people and take other retaliatory measures to make the shutdown worse for Democrats? He immediately was like, no, you know, people have families. He's from West Virginia, so he's got some. tendencies to, you know, not want people who rely on the government to be screwed. And Igor heard from Tom Polis who said this isn't the greatest idea.

Republicans don't really love this aspect of it on Capitol Hill, the payback. Yeah, no, I get that. But, like, if they were asked, like, why should a Democrat vote for a funding bill that Russ Votz is just going to unilaterally undo? I'm just curious what their answer would be. Yeah, they, there are Republican voices saying, is not helpful for getting us out of the shutdown. But that's obvious.

That's obvious. It's pretty lame. I want to talk about other funnier things because it does seem like these two parties are just operating in different galaxies. So, like, you and are texting about this, but like Trump's been putting up these racist AI videos of Hakeem Jeffries. I shouldn't laugh. Every time I laugh at the absurdity, people think I'm like laughing at with Trump,

but I'm laughing at Trump. It's got a Hakeem and a sombrero. It's just racist. It's stupid. And yet the White House, like, let's just play what Carolyn Levitt said. I think the president saw the video and posted it and then took it down. And he has the right to do that. It's his social media.

He's incredibly transparent. As you all know, you hear from him directly on social media. He likes to share memes. He likes to share videos. He likes to repost things that he sees other people post on social media as well. And I think it's quite refreshing that we have a president who is so open and honest, directly himself, many a times on truth. You are hearing directly from the president of the United States.

So, like, as you and I described it, you have, like, Hakeem Jeffrey's like, this is undignified behavior. This is un-serious stuff. And then the White House and Trump are like, yeah, it's hilarious. Look at this guy in some borrero. So funny. It's just they're like, like, they're not working in the same world. I take it as a hint that the shutdown will be long.

You do? Well, Trump's the one who's got to come in and finish it. You know, Republicans work for him. They're not going to strike the deal and present it to him without some indication that he'll accept it. That's good point. Yeah. And it, like, it's completely offensive stuff. He's basically, well, Hakeem Jeffries, you're a minority.

All we can do is laugh at you. Yeah. I think sometimes it's corny when progressives say, well, that's racist. But I honestly, what else can you? you say about it. That is racist. It's racist. I mean, the White House's response was how was putting a black man in a sombrera racist? Is he offended for being called a Mexican? Isn't that racist? It's like, come on, people. What is this stupid playground taunting shit? Yeah. And so Jeffries is just trying to remain disciplined. And he said today, you know, regarding the targeted cancellation of funds for New York,

for New York infrastructure projects. Well, this is just what Donald Trump does. He kills jobs. So they are, rather than being overly personal and saying it's about democracy or divisions of government, he's saying this is more bad Trump economic policy. Because, you know, economic policy is an area where Trump is losing support. Yeah, I get it. I get it.

I don't know. I kind of vacillade between wondering if they should just, like, do the Gavin News and mockery stuff. or I guess they can't because they need it. So they did health care. They're doing health care. And I know you have Jonathan Cohn, who is very strong on this topic. But it's got the Republicans saying, well, you've shut down the government for illegal aliens. Yeah, we have a video coming on that.

Cohn did a whole piece on that. It's just bullshit. It's not a strong talking point. It shows Republicans trying to shift to their own higher ground where they have an advantageous position. So it's another thing that I think portends a long shutdown. because the two sides are digging their trenches where they feel they've got better politics. All right, well, I have two more questions. I'll go with my last one first because it sets it up, but like, what's your over-under on how long

this thing lasts? It's hard to say because- No, you got to, you got to say. I'm not going to lay you off the hook. Give me an over-under. I will say three weeks with the caveat that I'm making a reckless, a reckless guess. My reckless guess is incredibly reckless. First of all, I should just let the, the.

viewers know, you're horrible at this game, if I remember correctly. You're really bad. No, you are. It's okay. You have a lot of great qualities, but this is not one of them. You're very bad at predicting things, if I remember correctly. That's not true. I predicted that you would be rude on this interview. Okay, one for your last 35. But I'm taking the under. I don't think it lasts three weeks. The thing is something, some weird thing is going to happen. Do you remember the assassination of Charlie Kirk, it felt like a world-destroying phenomenon, and I know that we were going through the backlash to that and the clampdown on the radical left, but it still feels like it was ages ago now because so much crazy stuff is constantly coming out of the White House.

How long ago do you think Charlie Kirk's assassination was if he had to guess? Don't Google. It was four weeks ago? No, three. close off by week but again you're not very good at predicting things um finally predicting that's the opposite of predicting i have taken the under it's going to be under three weeks you heard it here first finally and i mean this with like some sincerity but not much how how disadvantages chuck schumer by the fact that the alliteration just doesn't work in his favor

schumer shut down it just rolls off the tongue really well and you can't come up with an alternative for Trump or Thune. There's just no T that, like, lends itself to that nickname. I thought Republicans had a strong argument that, look, Democrats rejected a clean funding bill. And it's a Schumer shutdown. And that's why I'm slight surprised that they are instead saying Democrats are trying to help illegals. No, they're doing it all. But my point is Schumer shutdown.

It just sounds good. And they don't have, like, a Thune, what? a Johnson, what? It's like, you need an alliteration. It just doesn't work. I will say that Democrats have, you know, they've done a lot of press conferences and stuff, and they haven't really caught lightning in a bottle.

No. Hockeem Jeffries was trying to do a 24-hour live stream. Yeah. People kept saying, oh, you have fewer people watching this than you have in the Democratic caucus. At one point, it was like 170 concurrence-ish. Yeah. Got to do better than that.

I would know about that over here. here at the board and the board please i would i would quit my job if we had 170 concurrence that would be a failure um all right well look i say go ask the question of those republicans that i suggested and if you get good answers don't write it for huffposts just come back and report to me okay i'll come back all right already delaney my man thank you so much buddy thanks for having me all right everybody we are sold out of tickets to all of our shows on the fall tour except for October 8th in Washington, D.C. I was on a call yesterday, planning out what we've got in store for you. It's going to be fun. Obviously, JVL will be there. So there'll be elements of darkness.

We're also bringing in Sarah McBride for a conversation with Sarah Longwell that I'm super excited for. Maybe we might get Will Summer up to talk about some of the crazy shit that's happened on the MAGA ride. I've got some other plans in store for you. So it's not too late. Get your tickets now. Washington, D.C., October 8th, you go to the bulwoolwork.com slash events. Thebullwork.com slash events. I hope to see you all there. It's at the Lincoln Theater. Awesome venue. Appreciate them for hosting us.

And so I hope to see you all in Washington, October 8th.