Bulwark Takes - Trump’s Health Claims Are Getting Embarrassing (w/ Ben Terris)

Episode Date: January 27, 2026

Tim Miller is joined by New York magazine Washington correspondent Ben Terris to talk about his reporting on Trump’s health and the increasingly surreal way the White House talks about it. From mysterious MRIs and constantly bruised hands to doctors reading from talking points and Stephen Miller insisting Trump is “superhuman,” Tim and Ben dive into what we actually know about the president’s health versus what his inner circle wants us to believe.

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Hey everybody, it's Tim Miller from The Bullwark. Delighted to be here with an old friend, Ben Terrace, New York Magazine's Washington correspondent. He wrote a buzzy little article today titled, You're going to make me say this. Yeah, you've got to say it. The superhuman president. And it was a dive into what we know about his health, what he wants to tell us about his health, and what other random strangers that he calls on his phone say about his health. and I'm excited to talk about it with you.

What's going on? How's going on, man? How you doing? Thanks for having me on. I'm happy to talk about something like this, a little silly, as a little break from our Minneapolis coverage that's going to drive me to a stroke. And, you know, not that the president's self isn't a serious matter, but there's some silliness associated with the story, I think.

Or a little bit of, you know, you may be a twinkle in your eye a couple of times when writing about how the administration's talking about his health. Yeah, that's right. I mean, it's kind of Vee-Ked, kind of death of Stalin. You know, there's a little bit of a zaniness going on here. So tell us, how did you end up, you end up interviewing Kim and two doctors in the Oval Office about his hand bruises? I've been monitoring his hand bruises very closely, as you mentioned in the story, which I appreciate. Like, how did that come to pass? Yeah, honestly, I did not know the doctors were going to be in the Oval Office when I arrived. It was a surprise to me. A pleasant surprise because, you know,

as a feature writer, you're always looking for scene and, you know, surprises and unsuspecting things. And I was not suspecting this at all. But basically, it came to be because I was working on this story about Trump's health for a month or two at that point. And there'd been a lot of interest in Trump's health. The New York Times had published the story. That story had sent Trump into a tizzy. He was very angry about their coverage of him. They found that he, his public schedule was not as robust as it had been at the same time a year before. And he was really mad about it. And I think because he was so mad at the New York Times, he really wanted to talk to anyone else who was already working on a story about his health. And so he called me to the Oval

office and gave me 45 minutes of his time. And the doctors were there. And, you know, we just kind of went into it. What, um, in the premise of the story was you trying to figure out what's really happening with his health or are you trying to figure out what they're saying is happening about his health? Yeah, I mean, it's a little of both, right? I mean, on the outside, it would be great if I could figure out what was going on with his health. You know, I wrote a story, my first story for New York Magazine was last year was about John Federman and his health. And I feel like there were some kind of big blockbuster scoops in there about what was actually going on with his medical records and his health. To get that about the president of the United States is harder even than a

senator, which is already pretty hard. And so, yeah, it would have been great if I could get, you know, someone to leak me, you know, his actual records from Walter Reed. But ultimately, the story is in part about his health, but also about kind of the health of the government, right? I mean, he's kind of infected the government in a way. They have almost like a, I don't know, like a brainworm that he is put in them. And all these people that I talked to, it was like, I don't know, they had been,

snatched by body snatchers and we're just parroting what the president wanted them to say. These are, you know, serious people in the government or supposedly serious people in the government that are talking about him like he's the superhuman president. I mean, the headline is kind of a tongue-in-cheek joke. It was actually suggested by Stephen Miller, who told me if I was going to be serious. The headline has to be the superhuman president, that he has powers that no mere mortals have. And so that became the headline because that's the way that people talk about him. I thought about your Federman's story just before he came on because Federman put out a statement finally after like 70 hours after Alex Buddy was killed, which includes the sentence, I reject the calls to defund or abolish ICE. I strongly disagree with many strategies and practices ICE deployed.

It's not it's not the height of coherence coming out of the senator's office these days. He ain't what he used to be. Okay. So let's go through the various elements of the Trump health. questions. The thing that I guess you got the most information on was the MRI. He went to Walter Reed for an MRI. They didn't tell us what it was or why. And the doctors did share a little with you on that. Yeah. When I brought it up, Trump was very happy that I brought it up. I mean, I could see his eyes light up. And he said, thank you for asking about the MRI. And then he said, it was the stupidest fucking thing I've ever done in my life. I don't know, are you allowed to swear

on this podcast? Well, I said it was the stupidest stupidest fucking thing he'd ever done. in his life, and I blame them, and he pointed at the doctors and said, can you explain, you know, why I had to do this? And then he turns to Carolyn Leavitt and says it was the stupidest thing I've ever done. He was very upset about having taken this test, which turns out not to have been an MRI, but something very close to an MRI. And what the doctors claimed is he was just at Walter Reed anyway. And because he's the president of the United States, they wanted to be extra careful with his health. And so they just said, oh, the machine is here. Let's just do it. And the real headline they said the real story should be that it was amazing it was it was perfect results

they said and so they just did this abdomen you know they did an image of his abdomen and they found that everything was great yeah i don't want to think about that abdomen um that doesn't really i mean i've been to a fair amount of doctors in my day you know we're getting to middle age i doesn't usually it doesn't usually how things work i don't think like oh i happen to have this machine here why don't we just do it while it's here that's a little curious it's not usually how things work i will say that presidents get different kinds of health care than anyone else. He is nearly 80 years old. He does have, you know, some preexisting conditions, you can say. He's got a, you know, a circulatory issue that has made his ankle swell. And, you know, it's possible that because of that,

they were like, let's just be extra careful and make sure he's not about to have a heart attack. And they claim that he's not. All right. Let's go to the hands. So I think we can definitively say now that the first story about the bruises that they told, which is just that he is an aggressive hand shaker, I think we can rule that out now that the same bruises shown up on the left hand. Do you think that's safe? Yeah, I mean, it's not just handshaking, right? So what they say is that he takes way too much aspirin, basically. Like, he takes so much aspirin that when he told the head of a pharmaceutical company that makes aspirin, how much aspirin he was taking, they said, oh, no, no, don't do that? Like, do your doctors know? And he's like, yeah, they know, but, you know, it works.

for me. And so he says because he takes so much aspirin, he bruises very easily, which is true. If you take that much aspirin, you probably do bruise easily. And that handshaking is a number one cause. His right hand is the one that's usually bruised. And he's got these bandages on the back all the time. And he says that's from women's fingernails and from women's wedding rings sometimes or their engagement rings. He said that one particularly nasty slice on the back of his hand was from when Pam Bondi botched a high five with him and cut him with a ring. He said he healed perfectly, though. He showed me the hand. He's like, I have a beautiful hands and they heal perfectly.

And so, no, it's not just handshaking. It can't be because the other day in Davos, he had an equally disgusting bruise on his left hand. And unless he started shaking hands with his left hand, it can't just be bruising. He said it was from, like, slamming into a table or, you know, the side of a desk or something. You know, the doctor said that that's what it's from. You know, part of the story is about who can you believe? at this point, right? These are doctors at the highest level.

One of them is a physician's assistant with a PhD, but still a doctor at Walter Reed, and they're the ones who care for the president, and the people who are around the president the most are the ones telling the stories about how healthy he is. And in a normal world, you should be able to just believe them. We're not really living in a normal world. So I think the story is really like, look at what they're saying,

and then look at what you see with your own eyes and do these things match up. Yeah, one of the other things that come out, the doctors is that one of them told you that Trump is in better health than Obama. Yeah. Yeah. He was prompted by Carolyn. First of all, the doctors were holding pieces of paper when I arrived that said talking points on the top of it. And they were like pages long, filled with text, handwritten notes in the margins. At the end of my time there, Caroline Levitt prompted one of them and said, hey, you worked for the Obama's, didn't you? And he said,

yeah. And so I asked him, oh, who's healthier? You know, Barack Obama or President Trump. And without even hesitating, he says President Trump. I mean, Barack Obama was a healthy guy. He still is a healthy guy. Also, he was president, you know, a million years ago now and was younger than Trump. He's still younger than Trump. He's in his sports. It's a little hard to believe. Does Trump get his heart rate up ever? I mean, I don't know, it's hard to do you ever? I mean, he barely walks, you know, when he had this circulatory issue. One of the things that doctors recommended for the swelling was, you know, walk around more. When he was on the campaign trail, I think he walked. I think now he basically goes from the residence to the Oval Office often, and that's most of the steps he gets. And he asked

his staff if he could, if there's anything else he could do instead of walking. He doesn't really believe in exercise as has been reported before. And so, yeah, I mean, he's not a health nut. He might be, you know, healthier as an 80-year-old than most people would be if all they do is eat McDonald's and and don't walk around, but healthier than Obama felt like, you know, pretty funny to me. Pretty concerning to me that just like working doctors at Walter Reed are like corrupted to such a degree that they sound indistinguishable from Carolyn Leavitt. Like, I don't know, we probably shouldn't expect that, you know, our press secretary,

the spokesman for the president lies, but kind of, that's sort of part of the job, I guess. The press secretary is going to always be spinning, at least on behalf of the president. But it's like pretty noteworthy that he now, this is the second time he's found doctors that sound pretty indistinguishable from what a campaign spokesperson would sound like. Yeah. And the first time was amazing, right? It was that guy who, you know, put during the campaign in 2015 or whatever, who put out the statement about how Trump is the healthiest man alive, basically. And then it turned out that Trump had written that statement himself. Yeah.

You mentioned the walking. One of the other viral theories going around was that I enjoyed obviously. Oh, is that there's a catheter going down his leg. It looks like something that's jutting out of his suit pants as he kind of limped in a couple of videos. Do you get anything on that? Did you learn anything of what's happening there? I did sort of like take a peek at his legs when I was there, you know, like you do. And I didn't see anything when I was there.

You know, they obviously deny that he wears a catheter. There was one other thing, too, that was like. That's going to be my headline. Okay. Your headline was Stephen Miller suggested. Superhuman president. Mine will be president forced to deny you where's a catheter? Yeah, I mean, that's great.

There was another thing, too, that was like there was some belief online that he had some sort of medical device, like, attached to his hip. And the White House claims that's just a box of tic tacks that he always has because he has a Tick-Tac addiction. So I did actually hear Tic Tacs when he came into the Oval Office like it was a Seinfeld episode, you know. And that's kind of an old man thing. Yeah, and he's kind of an old man. Yeah. Hmm. How did the hands look when you saw him up close?

Yeah, gross. You know, he has a very warm and soft hand when you shake his hand. Not a lot of physical labor over the years. Yeah, not a ton. And, you know, that was surprising that it was so soft. But then on the other side, the back side of his hand, it looked kind of like rhino hide. I mean, it was very dry. Just the bruise had kind of.

taken over the whole back of his hand. I think I write that it looked like an ink block test. And I don't know, he's very self-conscious about the hand, as we know, right? He puts a dollop of makeup on it that makes it even more visible sometimes. I was at that mom, Donnie Trump Oval Office meeting, which was an amazing meeting. Oh, really? Yeah, I was there. I was there watching him, you know, scoping out the hand, among other things. And he spent the whole time covering his hand with his other hand so nobody could see it. And then every once in a while, he would just like look at it, like he was checking the time. And it was like, he is very self-conscious about it. In fact, I talked to somebody who had a meeting with Trump and he had a bruise on the back of his hand

and he wanted to, like, relate with the president about it. He's like, look, I got one too. And Trump shot it down. He didn't want to talk about it at all. Was there anything interesting off camera at the Trump's a mom-dadi meeting? I was mostly there for the on-camera part, you know? I didn't, I didn't get to see the kind of secret meeting. And so, you know, I just saw what everyone else saw and then they all showed everybody out. But, I mean, it was fascinating to watch, obviously, like, because I was there to watch him and see how if he looked old or not, and he was next to kind of the youngest, hottest, coolest, you know, politician.

And, you know, Trump clearly wanted some of that energy. It felt, it felt to me like, that's why he liked Mamdani so much, as he wanted, you know, some of that kind of spark. I do think that we'd, that there would be a different conversation, and maybe worse for him, maybe better, I don't know, about all of this. If he just didn't wear makeup, like, if he, if you just saw what Trump really looks like, like he looks like an 80-year-old man, kind of like Joe Biden.

So like there would be some benefited transparency to that. You know, he wouldn't be doing the death of Stalin stuff, like making up these ridiculous lies. On the other hand, maybe he would think that would make him look more weak and feeble. But I do think that that is kind of what is underlining all this. Like he just puts a lot of effort into looking like a clown rather than an elderly person. No, I think you're right. I mean, because one thing he has done recently is he stopped tying his hair.

It was something I noticed right away when I saw him. His hair is white now instead of kind of that orange golden hue that it has been for a long time. And honestly, it looked better, right? Like, it didn't look ridiculous. I saw him and I was like, oh, it's a guy who's aging. And, you know, I talked to some of his staff who was like, it's the only concession to aging that he admits to, basically. And a lot of people around him were happy because they were like, thank God. He doesn't look quite as ridiculous anymore.

You did say some people around him said that his hearing is going a little bit. Yeah, that's right. He doesn't notice that, apparently. It's going to happen to the best of us. Sure. I mean, that's the thing about this is a lot of these signs of aging are totally normal and not embarrassing. And, you know, a normal person would admit to them. But a big part of the story is that Trump is flailing for control right now, right?

He's sort of losing in the polls. He's losing his control over the party in some ways. He's losing control over his ability to, you know, get the attention of America at all times. And I think he's losing control of the story. about how young and healthy he is. And so when he's losing control, he kind of pushes back as hard as humanly possible. It's one thing to say, yeah, I feel great for 80.

And I'm losing my hearing a little bit. And like, yeah, I'm not as fast as I once was. And I can't hit quite as far as I could on the golf course, but like pretty good for 80. And it's another thing to have all of your people say, this is the healthiest man alive. Caroline Levitt told me that outside of the Oval Office where the Marine stands century,

they've had to, quote, call for backup because the Marines can't keep up with his work schedule. He's working so hard that even the Marines can't keep up. And you hear stuff like that and you're like, you sound ridiculous. Like, you could just say like he's doing pretty well for 80. But no, they have to push back as hard as ever because that's the only way Trump operates. The last little interesting anecdote I want to ask you about is my old friend Marco, who was exceedingly, I don't know, I don't know, I guess what word would you use to describe Marco's fawning description of Donald Trump's health?

You know, speaking about him as if he was a talented Miami University quarterback in his athletic prowess. But then he adds an anecdote about how he hides from Trump on Air Force One so Trump can't see him sleeping. Yeah, a big part of what everyone wants to tell me about when they talk about Trump is that he's got more energy than anyone, more energy than the 20-year-olds that work in the world. White House. And Rubio told me that when he goes on Air Force One, Rubio needs to take a nap when they go, you know, when they travel across the, you know, across the ocean. When they go international travel, he needs to take a nap. That's normal. Airplane rides are long and boring and tiring and he's take a nap. But he's terrified that the president will see him napping because Trump apparently does not sleep on Air Force One ever. And he's so afraid that the president is going to see him sleeping and think that he's weak, that Rubio will take a blanket and wrap himself. in it. He said, like a mummy, cover his head. He did a whole little impression for me, taking a fake blanket and wrapping it over his head and lies down on a couch in a back conference room somewhere, wrapped up. So if the president were to walk by, he might think it's just some staffer who's asleep and not the Secretary of State. You know, he's a guy who's a,

the Secretary of State is supposed to, you know, instill confidence in our allies and fear and our adversaries. And he's, you know, hiding on an airplane from an 80-year-old man who might seem sleeping. Do we think that's apocryphal? I think that's real. I mean, I believe it, honestly. He told it. It feels a little bit more conspicuous to me to wrap yourself up like a mummy and go hide. Yeah, but maybe, you know, Trump walks by and it's like, ah, yeah, it's just some, you know, some loser wrapped up in a blanket.

A little risk. I don't know if you just, if you talk to Marco again, just flag this for him, though, it's like a little risk. It's because Trump walks out and he's like, where's little Marco? Where's little Marco? And then people are like, he's hiding from you wrapped up like a mummy. That feels like they'd be more embarrassing than if he was just kind of resting his eyes, he could pretend like he could pretend like he was thinking or listening. You call him Little Marco, but, you know, Rubio told me a story about how Trump got him shoes.

And he said that they were size 12 and they were a perfect fit. Did they have the heels? You know, they did look like they had some heel to them. Yeah, I mean, they were shiny black dress shoes. He was wearing them, you know, when I had my interview with Rubio. Okay. So jury's still out on, well, we're going to the aspirin for the bruising. Yeah.

Tick-tacks, maybe. Cather. We have a denial. MRI was just coincidence happened to be around look I'm just saying the doctor says the healthiest president they've ever been around and what are you going to do i forgot i'd one more the arie manual story is funny oh yeah yeah that was great um you know at one point when i'm interviewing him his phone rings and uh it's ari ammanuel the super agent uh you know jeremy piven's character and auntarge and rom emmanuel's brother uh and trump just puts him on speaker phone and he's like

Ari, Ari, I got this writer here from New York Magazine. He's writing about my health. Can you be my reference, basically? And Emmanuel who was calling about, I don't know, tax rebates or something for Hollywood, is just all of a sudden put on speakerphone and has to be like, yeah, hi, hi, Ben. He seems normal to me. Like, he's still with it. And then he has to kind of caveat it by being like, you know, I haven't seen him in five years.

But, yeah, yeah. And then Trump's like, oh, yeah, but he'd say I was losing it if he thought I was losing it. This guy's a fucking legend and he hangs up on Emmanuel. It truly is amazing how easily these guys just get pushed around by Trump. You wouldn't think that Ari Emanuel would need to do that, you know? Everybody, I mean, that's the thing is like everybody in his orbit, they just can't help but become, you know, the ultimate Trump lackeys. It's the only way to succeed in his government. I think, you know, long term, it might not be a recipe for success, but it's a recipe for success right now.

Well, I hope you continue on the bruising beat because I'd like to know more. And I'm not an investigative journalist, and I'm interested. So do keep on it. Do keep us posted. That's Ben Terrace. Everybody subscribed to the feed. Go check his work out at New York Magazine, one of the best feature writers going. And we'll see you all soon.

Thanks so much.