Bulwark Takes - Trump’s SURREAL Antifa Summit

Episode Date: October 9, 2025

Andrew Egger and Will Sommer take on of the most surreal events of the Trump era: a White House “roundtable” where Trump met with right-wing influencers to discuss Antifa as if it were an organized terror group. Egger and Sommer expose the theater behind the event, the made-up claims of an “Antifa hierarchy,” and the absurd partnership between DHS and online agitators. It’s part authoritarian propaganda, part farce, and all dangerous.

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Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. But MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Hi, this is Andrew Eger with the bulwark. President Donald Trump yesterday had a round table discussion with some independent journalists, some content creators, some right-wing on the ground guys who hold a GoPro at protests and riots to talk about the scourge in our nation of Antifa, which the White House recently labeled a domestic terrorist organization and which they are attempting to squash

and stamp out with the might of the state. It was a weird event, surreal in a lot of ways. here to talk about it with me today is our right-wing media whisperer, our false flag newsletter author. Will Summer. Will, how you doing today? Hey, I'm happy to be here. Let's talk about this. I mean, like, there's so many different things you can say about this event, so many different things you can say about Antifa, so many different ways you can kind of plug this into, you know, the broader sort of sort of military crackdown of, of this White House on sort of broadly lefty foes. But I think we have to start with the cast of characters, right? I mean, you got, you got all the usual suspects. You've got Donald Trump. You've got Pam Bondi. I think Cash Patel was there,

you know, these sorts of people who are, who are, you know, the actual persons leading this, this sort of anti-Antifa crusade in the White House. But then you also had this sort of rogue's gallery of, again, sort of right-wing content creators on sort of a sliding scale up to people who are actually journalists. So can you just talk about sort of the people who they had, who they had convened to impanel this panel yesterday? Yeah. So, I mean, the White House here is clearly looking for some kind of pretext to increase federal crackdowns in cities, increase ice raids, send more troops into cities like Portland and Chicago. And so part of that is bringing in these people who they run a bit of a spectrum, but I mean, you might call them right-wing

fame balls, right-wing influencers or personalities. You know, the White House called them independent journalists. And I will say, you know, I try to, you know, have a pretty wide tent in terms of what comes to journalism. I would say someone like Julio Roses from Town Hall. Some of these people are just like, they go, you know, these right-wing blogs, they love the coverage of, going back to 2020. They love this kind of riot coverage. Or a lot of stuff I don't think qualifies riots, but this kind of stuff.

And then all the way to people who are really like much more partisan political operatives, provocateurs almost, people like Jack Posobic or Nick Sortor. Then there were some people who have historically, or, you know, whether it was this year or in the past, been attacked by protesters or Andy Nuo, who was there who has claimed that he was, you know, hit with like a concrete milkshake. It's a little unclear. You know, I believe it, Katie Davis Court, who was there was kind of whacked in the eye with a flag recently by protesters. And so there's sort of this, the White House has bring these people out to say just Antifa is out of control, President Trump, please. please rein them in. Yeah, I mean, these guys have been such an interesting phenomenon to watch over the past few years because I totally agree. Like, they sort of slide back and forth. Like sometimes they just seem like content creators, but sometimes, you know, they're on the ground trying to give out, you know, just actual reports of what's happening there. But then sometimes, you know, they're involved in these scuffles and these clashes. And so they, you know, they're not exactly just like these third party observers. Like, you know, ideally you would be for a reporter. Maybe it's not their fault. Maybe they're trying to do that and they get sort of implicated in these things. So it's all a little messy. It's all a little unclear. Water crackdown is interesting, and we're going to need to go back and forth because we want to talk, the Nick Sortor stuff in particular was so amazing. But let's talk a little bit about just sort of like what Antifa is and like what is it that the White House is trying to do right now with basically saying there is such a group, such an organization as Antifa, and we're going to root it out and get to the bottom of it.

What's going on there? Obviously, we've been dealing with kind of this contemporary version of Antifa in our public discourse going back to 2016, 2017. But, you know, of course, it's short for anti-fascist and these are people who are often wearing all black and, you know, I would say are broadly open to using violence to achieve their ends and kind of like street scuffles, you know, to hear Jack Posobic tell it, Antifa has been at the White House, he said, Antifa has been a problem going back to Weimar Germany. And you think, well, now, what was it? Were there fascists in Weimar Germany that might have been a, that might have been, might be Antifa been on the right side of that one? But, you know, look, they were a big problem for the Brown shirts, President Trump. We've got to stop them. But basically, like, I think both in, you know, kind of 2017, 2018, when, you know, there would be these kind of riots after a conservative campus event or clashes with the proud boys in Portland. And then up to then 2020, of course, the riots and the protests then. But now it sort of seems like there were, I just feel like the protests aren't really that big. You know, I very closely scrutinized the video around

the Portland Ice facility. And it's like a few dozen protesters. And you can tell the White House really, like they really want kind of like 20, 20 levels of response. And so as a result, they're bringing out these people like Jack Posobic, like Nick Sortor. And the other thing I would say is, our colleague, Adrian Keroskeo, got into this in his newsletter, huddled masses this week. But there's this weird way in which DHS and ICE really work hand in glove with these influencers. And so they'll put them on the roof of the ice building in Portland where they can kind of taunt the protesters, maybe rile them up. At one point, I think it was Nick Soror, maybe someone else, was, like, threatened by an Antifa guy, and all of a sudden there was, like, a red sniper dot on the Antifa guy's shirt. I mean, I will say, you know, I haven't threatened to protest as a journalist.

I haven't had DHS snipers, you know, closely monitoring anyone who's rude to me and aiming a, like, a sniper rifle at them. So you can see the way that I'd say the government is also really emboldening these guys. And then, of course, the government is quite happy to then publicize any footage of clashes that that inspires. Yeah. I do think it's important to have, like, a little. nuance on some of this stuff, right? Because, like, on the one hand, you know, anti-fascism, super for it, you know? Like, fascism is bad. I feel like we're somewhat anti-fascist here at the bulwark. At the same time, you know, these groups have frequently, I mean, I would say

overwhelmingly when you have seen like Antifa at protests over the last, you know, five or 10 years, it has been people who are there who are like just up to no good, right? I mean, they're there to kind of crack heads. The whole, like, black block sort of agitator thing is real. Like those are people who have done that kind of stuff in the past. I've been at protests where, you know, I felt sort of hostility radiating off of those people against me, myself, who's, you know, just there as sort of a journalist observing. So I don't have any brief with any of that. I think that the more sinister thing that we are seeing at the White House right now is this attempt to, first of all, they want it to be the case that, like, all of these protesters,

they are tarring with that brush, right? I mean, like, and you got into that a little bit just yesterday. Right. I mean, like that they, first of all, they want to say anybody who is basically out protesting against ice or protesting against these troops in the cities basically counts. You know, like these are basically Antifa people. They secondarily, you know, want to, I mean, Pam Bonnie was talking about this yesterday. They don't want to just arrest people in the streets. They want to go after, you know, the institution of Antifa, which is largely fictional. I mean, it's, what you're talking about when you're talking about Antifa is a group of basic. you know, decentralized people in all these different cities who share some tactics, who share some iconography, but who don't have like a, there's no like, you know, national Antifa registry. You don't pay dues, you know. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of talk about where, where's the funding coming from? Who could, who's got to be behind this? But you look, it's like, I mean, it doesn't make some funding for someone to punch someone. I mean, it's not like these people are using these. They don't have like artillery or anything. So, I mean, you know, yeah, to your

point. I mean, I think a lot of these quote-unquote clashes we're seeing, particularly in Portland are not so much in Tifa, but almost this very weird sort of agitation being carried out by some of these right-wing personalities. That doesn't mean they should be hit. But in the case of Nick Sortor, for example, this is a guy

who is sort of his claim to fame such as it was. And this guy is kind of affiliated with Turning Point USA. That's his background. He's filled in for Charlie Kirk on his show. And so he goes to Portland and basically he sees a protester at the ice facility burning a flag. So he runs in and grabs the flag and rescues the

flag. And now the flag is going to become our weeks-long arc with Nick Sortar. And so he marches around with the famous flag that he stole. And this actually happened on video, right? So let's, let's real quick. I mean, we can, we can just play this clip. Like, let's just see this happen of Nick Sortor grabbing this flag. You know, we got a, we got a Trump supported. We got a Trump supported on here. Oh, he's putting it on the ground and he's making it work. First, and now we're standing on it. You're not supposed to stand on it?

No, now I think he's just saying it on the first. Yeah, so that's, so go ahead, Will. I mean, that's just the moment at which he kind of becomes the man of the hour. Exactly. And so then this becomes this, he at the White House, he says, here's the flag I rescued. And Trump says, you know, we should prosecute that person who was burning that flag. Yeah, let's just play that clip to you real quick here. Years now.

So thank you guys so much. for taking this seriously. And President Trump, you mentioned that flag. So remember, you put out a truth right after I took this flag from that man that was burning it in the street. Do you know who he is? Oh, yeah, I know exactly who it is. So why don't you give it to Pam?

Give it to the Attorney General and let's start prosecutions. Yeah, I actually have a second flag that he tried to burn as well. So I have two of them from the same guy. So what happened when that flag started burning, Everyone went crazy. And that's when it started when they started burning the flag. So thank you.

If you could give the information, it would be great. Absolutely. And at least that horrible night made you famous. He was already good. I got a text from the president of the United States, so I appreciate that. Since then, he's been kind of marching around the protesters with the flag. But he'll also do things that I mean, look, none of this is journalistic in any way. I mean, when I go to an event, I don't say, hey, you're mistreating that, that, you know, that flag.

I'm going to rescue that. And then kind of taunt you with it. And then, I mean, in his case, he also has made a big deal about, well, they won't, you know, I want to walk through a group of protesters on the sidewalk. And so he'll kind of blunt, you know, kind of put the elbows up and kind of blunder through them. And that sort of creates these clashes because then people are like, why is this guy kind of like throwing himself through our group here? And, you know, people associated with him have been arrested for kind of getting in these scuffles. And so, you know, you can see that really there's not a lot of journalism such as it is going on. Yeah, I want to put kind of a fine point on this, this Nick Sortor story specifically, because we just showed what actually happened. We showed, you know, him whipping the flag out as sort of a trophy of war at the White House and Trump being like, yeah, you know, tell us who, tell us who was burning that flag, we'll go prosecute them. I mean, I think this kind of just is really at the heart of why all of this is, is and should be concerning to us, right? I mean, that if you're talking about

Antifa, like when they talk about Antifa as a domestic terrorist organization, they are trading on this popular conception of, you know, people who are in the streets, you know, indiscriminately committing violence and, you know, sowing mayhem. And to the extent that people are in the streets indiscriminately committing violence and sowing mayhem, I think everybody would agree, like, it's okay for law enforcement to, you know, prevent that and arrest people who are doing that, who are committing crimes. But you look at that video. I mean, you watch that video right there. What you see is a guy who is not, you know, dressed in Antifa gear, not like dressed like a black, block agitator basically just looks kind of like an aging Portland hippie who is just standing

there burning an American flag, which is constitutionally protected, you know, First Amendment covered speech. I mean, this is open and shut stuff, according to, you know, what the Supreme Court has ruled on these issues. And then you see Nick Sortor come in from out of frame, snatch it, you know, put it out, carry it off. He still has it. He has burglarized this poor guy's flag and carried it to the White House and you sort of displayed it as a trophy of war. And without any kind of like friction or anything like that, Donald Trump is immediately like, you know, okay, so that guy was Antifa, obviously, because if you weren't Antifa, he wouldn't have been burning a flag.

Tell us who that was so we can go prosecute him. And that is all you need to see, like, the ways in which this thing is being, you know, if there's like a crack in the door to be able to prosecute people who are actually doing, you know, bad, wrong crimes, they are using that now to much more broadly crack down on any sort of like disfavored political speech or protesting in general. And I think that's what we're seeing here. Yeah, I mean, you know, at the White House, we also saw the influencers asking Trump, please designate Antifa as also a foreign terrorist organization because they're bugging our far right friends in Europe too. And Trump said, well, you know, maybe I'll, that sounds like a great

idea. So really, I mean, this whole event was about having these people come in and just beg Trump to do something. I mean, he no doubt would love to do anyway. Yeah, yeah. And the extent to which they are just sort of like producing this theatrical production, like they're all cosplaying as though this is a normal sort of like counterterrorist, uh, uh, tactical crackdown where like you get, you know, certain members of the, of the organization and then they can turn on other people in their organization. Pam Bondi said, something yesterday about how they had the wife of the founder of Antifa in custody. I mean, just like, that's just like something she said kind of in passing. Like as though, again,

as though this were an organization, a structure, like a thing, a thing where like they have meetings and they know one another. And like a lot of these are like that people put up flyers and they say, hey, the Antifa thing's going to happen at such and such a time show up wearing black. You know, like, and that's the extent of the actual organizing. Right. So it's just, again, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, using the tactics of our ordinary, highly militarized, you know, ability to deal with and crack down on actual terror cells abroad and use, you know, these massive financial tools and all these sorts of things to crack down on these groups, now being deployed against this very nebulous target that basically amounts in the words of Trump and in his telling to people who are out in the

streets unhappy with what ICE and, you know, National Guardsmen are doing. Yeah, I mean, you can see there really is, obviously, this attempt to find some pretext. I mean, I was struck when Benny Johnson went with Christie Nome to the famous roof of the ice of Ice Portland and looked down and he said, Christy Nome is steering down this man an inflatable chicken costume. I mean, it's like, you know, read that back to yourselves again, fellas. You know, I mean, clearly there is really not that significant of a threat as they're describing it. But they were just really desperate to have some kind of big crackdown.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, if we're, obviously, you know, nobody's taking protest directions from me. But if I were to rank, you know, effective versus ineffective protests against what's going on right now, I would consider, you know, committing acts of street violence to be very far down the list of actually effective protest and wearing a giant inflatable costume and just sort of like dancing around these military police, that seems a lot more effective to me. I mean, the footage that this company coming out of some of this stuff has been unbelievable. But nobody cares about this.

It's really clever. I mean, it does demonstrate. I mean, obviously, people in giant frog costumes or chicken costumes or bananas can't, like, physically engage really in violence. And so I think it's demonstrating how ridiculous this is. Right, right, right, right. Okay, I think we can leave it there. I mean, it's so hard to talk about this stuff because it is so serious and it is so silly. And it's all, like, wrapped up together, right?

And so it's hard to know how lightly to treat it, how much to mock it, how much to kind of like just dwell on the alarm. I guess we'll probably keep doing both. And there'll be plenty opportunities to do that in the weeks ahead because they are not slowing down. This is all just getting rolled out. We're all out now. So thanks, Will, for coming on and talking a little bit about it. We'll keep covering it. Thanks to you all out there for watching. I hope you will subscribe to the channel. Head to the bulwark.com. Read our stuff. Send it to your family. Send it to your friends. Send it to your black block agitator acquaintances and your MAGA ones alike. because we're a big tent here at the bulwark.

So thanks, and we'll see you all next time.