Bulwark Takes - Trump’s Unhinged And Lie Soaked Congress Address Was Insane For Even Him

Episode Date: March 5, 2025

Sam Stein, Lauren Egan and Sarah Longwell break down Trump’s lies in his address to Congress, and the strong Democratic response from Senator Elissa Slotkin.

Okay. Okay. Is it over? Is it over, Sam? No, that's just halftime. That was act one. Have you seen The Brutalist? It's a good movie, but there's an actual, they built in an intermission, and I felt like that thing could be used. Can you imagine if he came back out here and started all over again? It would be, I think I would die. Lauren, you have to unmute before you start talking. This is the year 2025. Oh my God. I'm the youngest here and I can't unmute.

Hey, Lauren. It's nice to meet you. Hey. How's it going? So, okay. Let's talk about that. I don't even know where to begin. That clocked in at well over an hour and 40 minutes. Longest, it's not a State of the Union. I'm going to call it a State of the Union. I don't give a shit. I'm going to call it a State of the Union. Longest State of the Union in history. It was a stem winder, generously. But I want to be very upfront about it. Because I think our Overton window shifts a lot with this stuff. And I think we just need to be very upfront about it. Because I think our Overton window shifts a lot with this stuff. And I think we just need to be very clear about this. It was a brutally dishonest speech.

It was filled with complete fabrications, some of which had been almost recently debunked. It was highly partisan in a way that we're not accustomed to for these speeches. These speeches tend to be, or should be, or traditionally are efforts to unify the country. It wasn't even, I mean, it started with him mocking Democrats, so it wasn't even close to that. It was Trump. It was Trump. It was ego. It was him as a singular force. It was filled with dishonesty. Doesn't mean it wasn't effective. I want to be very clear about that because I do actually think, and we can get to the more effective parts, but it was Trump. True, true. Sarah, what are your thoughts? Well, I thought there were some

unifying parts. I do think we are all unified by the ritual humiliation of Marco Rubio. I felt like the whole room was there for that. I was waiting for that, yeah. I gotta say, so I was gonna wait because I can tell you all the things I hated about it. Like, did I hate JD Vance's smug face throughout it?

I sure did. Did I hate the fact that he somehow managed to talk about trans stuff far more than he talked about the cost of living, which if you weigh the Americans' priorities, cost of living far

outweighs any trans issues. I mean, he probably spent more time just on trans women's sports stuff than on cost of living alone. Those were his guests, too. That's who he brought yeah um i could talk about trump saying that right after we talked about how the guy who got shot and killed at his event how that was sad but trump got saved because he needed to make america great again like that kind of egoism i was like i find

trump repellent. I find, you know, the people standing behind him. Here's the thing though. Trump went for a light, like he created like happy moments. Like he went for trying to create these moments of like the terminally ill kid that he is making part of the secret Service and the guy who he got out of the Russian prison with his 93 year old mother. Like there were actually and in some ways, the way that a standard, you know, state of the union goes like he does break through that with a certain amount of showmanship that I do think if people who are, because look, I can't get used to how dumb he sounds when he talks. Like I'll never get used to it. Oh good. Then we got Joe Perdiccone. Joe Perdiccone. And if you'd showed that to Republicans like a decade ago, like that speech, they would be like,

and you're like, you're going to cheer like a maniac for this guy. Because that was something that was very much on display was how pumped Republicans were and how demoralized Democrats were. But if you showed them and you said, you're going to cheer like a maniac for this guy, they would have been like, never who is that lunatic? And what is he even saying?

And yet here we are. So anyway, I can, I will talk a little bit more about it and I don't want to be such a downer by saying that I thought it was relatively effective. But I do think he did. There was a lot of showmanship that worked for him and his people. Joe, Joe, while we have you, you are in the room.

Yeah, I'm over Trump. I'm now in a tiny sunproof box in the press gallery. All right. Well, give us the. That's why it's dark. People have to understand the glamour of the job here um what was what was the what was like in the room um this is like my eighth one of these covering in person um across now four presidencies obama trump biden now again. And it was just like, it felt like one of those big tent revivals

that they do in the South where like every line he said, there was like an amen, yes, sir. And like the praise. So like a rally. I feel like that's like what every rally he holds feels like. Very much like that. And then like the Dems were either all super depressed or

they just left like bernie bernie wasn't they were trying he just got up and he walked out and you know some of them that had like t-shirts um i think like the probably the most awful moment was the first one with al green. I noticed Madeline Dean, when the Sergeant at Arms was making his way down the aisle to go over to him, she tapped him and it looked like she mouthed, don't hurt him. And he was just kind of like, oh, I know, but we have to get

him out. And I was like, that was just a very low moment, just for a very decreasingly effective body. Joe, tell us quickly, what was Elon like? Because he was sitting in the guest box and seemed a little bit out of place. So he started by every time anything happened, he stood up and was clapping and jumping.

And he was staring at the lights and the ceiling and just kind of like moving around like he does same same thing as the inauguration um but like more so and then like you know after about an hour and a half he was like slumped in his chair and then when trump mentioned mars he like leaned forward and was like wait what and then people started clapping and he was like oh and jumped up and was like so oh he um he had a like brief conversation before it started with uh Jason Selvig from the Good Liars I like watched them meet and there was like some sheriff who was there like as a guest in between them like what is is happening. So we're going to try and find out what that conversation was. I want to go quickly.

Cause you talked about Al green and Democrats and Laura and you, this is sort of your forte here, but you know, I was looking at Tim's Twitter feed and I think, you know, I'm not trying to cut them any favor. I think Tim is right though, that anything they did would look cringy. There's really no, I mean, this is the ultimate home this is yeah this is the ultimate home field advantage right it's like he's got he's at the lectern he's got uh both his buddies behind him sycophantically clapping there there's nothing that he's going to say that they're going to clap to and then they're also high expectations for

them to try to create a scene without totally ruining the decorum. So it's really hard. So yeah. Or Al Green, you know, just like didn't want to sit through that. He was just like, I want out. I'm old. I don't want to sit through this. No, I think like, look, if they didn't do anything right, like their Democratic base voters are already like pretty frustrated with the party that they're not doing more to fight back against Trump. So they had to do something. And yeah, I don't think there's any way to like, you know, all whatever you do. I mean, even when Republicans were, you know, heckling Biden during his State of the Union, like it just comes across as super performative and really cringy. It's like, you know, what can you do, but they had to do something.

Sarah, let me talk, go back to you about this because you've been doing all these focus groups about voters and their changing, sort of softening appreciation for Trump and the Trump voters who are getting a little bit frustrated with it. What do you make of his messaging tonight? I mean, we talked a little bit about

how it went really for the culture war stuff, right? Less so for the economics. And even on the eggs, it was sort of like, well, that was Joe Biden's fault, right? Like that was very notable to me. But really, it was just sort of the focus, right? It was so much culture war up front. He didn't even get into immigration until I noticed that he didn't touch immigration until it was late. Yeah, it was an hour in before he started to get into immigration, which was ostensibly his number one issue. So, I mean, as someone who's been sort of on top of all the focus group data, like what did you make of the structure of the piece? And if you felt like he was communicating to win those people back who might be drifting? Yeah, I mean, it actually struck me your point about how he blamed Joe Biden for X, he didn't just, he blamed Joe Biden for everything, actually, when it came to the economy. And it seemed very much like they didn't want to talk about the economy that much, because it's not going very well right now. And so, you know, I have, I just, I have, sorry, Sam, I have a piece in The Atlantic right now talking about the focus groups.

I know. I know. I don't even, I own this publication. Why am I writing for other ones other than like their editors are more aggressive about making me do it? I don't know. Sarah, I've been petitioning you to write a piece for weeks. I know. I know.

I don't know what to say. Anyway, but so that we've been, the thing is, and I want to make this very clear, the vast majority of Trump voters are like here for it. They want to drink liberal tears until their thirst is quenched and it's not quenched yet. And it's impossible to quench it. Yes. Yeah. Right. And so, so that is most people and they are when Trump sort of in his windup, he was doing the, we've done more than most people do in eight years. We've done it fast and people are responding to that. Sam, the episode you did with me, we listened to voters say, like, well, he's doing something. I can see action. But there's this other type of voter and it's not MAGA. It's not a MAGA voter. It's a person who is like, my shit's too expensive. I'm going to vote for Trump because I don't know.

I don't really people say a lot of stuff about him. I just think he's, I think he's a businessman. And so like, I want him to do something for me, but those voters are deeply impatient. And so they're the ones that right now are being like, but is he doing anything on the economy? It feels like it's getting worse. And, and so I feel like that is who he's soft with. And they know that they're seeing that he has his worst numbers ever with voters on the economy because the economy that ate Joe Biden is now eating Donald Trump. Sebastian, stop playing these videos. We're going to go to Alyssa Slotkin now. Oh, we are.

She's delivering the Democratic response. I'm going to go down to the statuary. Sebastian, I'm sorry I yelled at you. Sebastian, we love you. Thank you for doing that. Let's go to Slotkin You go, Joe. We'll see you later. Sebastian, I'm sorry I yelled at you. See you, Joe. Sebastian, we love you. Thank you for doing that.

Let's go to Slotkin. Bye, Joe. ...on 9-11 when the Twin Towers came down. Before the smoke cleared, I knew I wanted to make a life in national security. I was recruited by the CIA and did three tours in Iraq alongside the military. In between, I worked at the White House under President Bush and President Obama, two very different leaders who both believed that America is exceptional. You can find that same sense of patriotism here in Wyandotte, Michigan, where I'm speaking

from tonight. It's a working-class town just south of Detroit. President Trump and I both won here in November. It might not seem like it, but plenty of places like this still exist across the United States. Places where people believe that if you work hard and play by the rules, you should do well and your kids should do better. It reminds me of how I grew up. My dad was a lifelong Republican, my mom a lifelong Democrat. But it was never a big deal, because we had shared values that were bigger than any one party.

We just went through another fraught election season. Americans made it clear that prices are too high and that the government needs to be more responsive to their needs. America wants change, but there's a responsible way to make change and a reckless way. And we can make that change without forgetting who we are as a country and as a democracy. So that's what I'm going to lay out tonight. Because whether you're from Wyandotte or Wichita, most Americans share three core beliefs.

That the middle class is the engine of our country, that strong national security protects us from harm, and that our democracy, no matter how messy, is unparalleled and worth fighting for. protects us from harm and that our democracy no matter how messy is unparalleled and worth fighting for. Let's start with the economy. Michigan literally invented the middle class, the revolutionary idea that you could work at an auto plant and afford the car you were building. That's the American dream. And in order to expand and protect the middle class we have to do a few basic

things. We need to bring down the price class, we have to do a few basic things. We need to bring down the price of things we spend the most money on, groceries, housing, health care. We need to make more things in America with good paying union jobs and bring our supply chains back home from places like China. We need to give American businesses the certainty they need to invest and create the jobs of the future. And we need a tax system that's fair for people who don't happen to make a billion dollars. Look, the president talked a big game on the economy, but it's always important to read the fine print. So do his plans actually help Americans get ahead?

Not even close. President Trump is trying to deliver an unprecedented giveaway to his billionaire friends. He's on the hunt to find trillions of dollars to pass along to the wealthiest in America. And to do that, he's going to make you pay in every part of your life. Grocery and home prices are going up, not down, and he hasn't laid out a credible plan to deal with either of those. His tariffs on allies like Canada will raise prices on energy, lumber, and cars, and start a trade war that will hurt manufacturing and farmers.

Your premiums and prescriptions will cost more because the math on his proposals doesn't work without going after your health care. Meanwhile, for those keeping score, the national debt is going up not down. And if he's not careful, he could walk us right into a recession. And one more thing, in order to pay for his plan, he could very well come after your retirement. The Social Security, Medicare, and VA benefits you worked your whole life to earn. The president claims he won't, but Elon Musk just called Social Security the biggest Ponzi scheme of all time.

While we're on the subject of Elon Musk, is there anyone in America who is comfortable with him and his gang of 20-year-olds using their own computer servers to poke through your tax returns, your health information, and your bank accounts? No oversight, no protections against cyber attack, no guardrails on what they do with your private data. We need a more efficient government. You want to cut waste? I'll help you do it. But change doesn't need to be chaotic or make us less safe. The mindless firing of people who work to protect our nuclear weapons, keep our planes from crashing, and conduct the research that finds the cure for cancer only to rehire them two days of people who work to protect our nuclear weapons, keep our planes from crashing, and

conduct the research that finds the cure for cancer, only to rehire them two days later? No CEO in America could do that without being summarily fired. Okay, so we've talked about economic security. How about national security? Let's start with the border. As someone who spent my whole career protecting our homeland, every country deserves to know who and what is coming across its border. Period.

Democrats and Republicans should all be for that. But securing the border without actually fixing our broken immigration system is dealing with the symptom and not the disease. America is a nation of immigrants. We need a functional system key to the needs of our economy that allows vetted people to come and work here legally. So I look forward to the President's plan on that. Because here's the thing.

Today's world is deeply interconnected. Migration, cyber threats, AI, environmental destruction, terrorism. One nation cannot face these issues alone. We need friends in all corners and our safety depends on it. President Trump loves to say peace through strength. That's actually a line he stole from Ronald Reagan. But let me tell you, after the spectacle that just took place in the Oval Office last week, Reagan must be rolling in his grave. We all want an end to the war in Ukraine,

but Reagan understood that true strength required America to combine our military and economic might with moral clarity. And that scene in the Oval Office wasn't just a bad episode of reality TV. It summed up Trump's whole approach to the world. He believes in cozying up to dictators like Vladimir Putin and kicking our friends like the Canadians in the teeth. He sees American leadership as merely a series of real estate transactions.

As a Cold War kid, I'm thankful it was Reagan and not Trump in office in the 1980s. Trump would have lost us the Cold War. Donald Trump's actions suggest that in his heart, he doesn't believe we're an exceptional nation. He clearly doesn't think we should lead the world. Look, America is not perfect, but I stand with the majority of Americans who believe we are still exceptional, unparalleled. And I would rather have American leadership over Chinese or Russian leadership any day of the week. Because for generations, America has offered something better. Our security and our prosperity, yes, but our democracy, our very system of government,

has been the aspiration of the world. And right now, it's at risk. It's at risk when the president decides you can pick and choose what rules you want to follow, when he ignores court orders and the Constitution itself, or when elected leaders stand by and just let it happen. But it's also at risk when the president pits Americans against each other, when he demonizes those who are different and tells certain people they shouldn't be included.

Because America is not just a patch of land between two oceans. We are more than that. Generations have fought and died to secure the fundamental rights that define us. Those rights and the fight for them make us who we are. We're a nation of strivers, risk-takers, innovators. And we are never satisfied. That is America's superpower. And look, I've lived and worked in many countries. I've seen democracies flicker out. I've seen what life is like when a government is rigged.

You can't open a business without paying off a corrupt official. You can't criticize the guys in charge without getting a knock at the door in the middle of the night. So as much as we need to make our government more responsive to our lives today, don't for one moment fool yourself that democracy isn't precious and worth saving. But how do we actually do that? I know a lot of you have been asking that question.

First, don't tune out. It's easy to be exhausted, but America needs you now more than ever. If previous generations had not fought for this democracy, where would we be today? Second, hold your elected officials, including me, accountable. Watch how they're voting. Go to town halls and demand they take action. That's as American as apple pie. Third, organize. Pick just

one issue you're passionate about and engage. And doom scrolling doesn't count. Join a group that cares about your issue and act. And if you can't find one, start one. Some of the most important movements in our history have come from the bottle up. In closing, we all know that our country is going through something right now. We're not sure what the next day is going to hold, let alone the next decade. But this isn't the first time we've experienced significant and tumultuous change as a country. I'm a student of history and we've gone through periods of political instability before and ultimately we've chosen to keep changing this

country for the better. But every single time, we've only gotten through those moments because of two things. Engaged citizens and principled leaders. Engaged citizens who do a little bit more than they're used to doing to fight for the things that they care about. And principled leaders who are ready to receive the ball and do something about it so thank you tonight for caring about your country just by watching you qualify as engaged citizens and i promise that i and my fellow democrats will do everything in our power to be the principal leaders that you deserve goodnight everyone okay I I know I'm reading the responses

in our chat and people are not like overly moved by it but I thought that was pretty good I mean relative to the baseline of what a response would usually these things are I mean the goal is to just not end up on SNL this

weekend which she cleared that bar. But I think she's one of the more like effective communicators in the Democratic Party, especially on issues like democracy, which is like such a challenge for them to talk about in a way that just doesn't sound so overbearing. I thought she did a good job about that there. And on the economy, too. I don't know. Like in a way, they're setting up for it kind of reminds me of how we were with biden just a few years ago right like the biden white house trying to tell people just stick with my plan everything's gonna be okay and she's kind of like framing it

that way like trump might talk a big game about the economy but like that's not what you're feeling right now i liked i liked her ideas she had you know you know, what was it, like four, you know, pieces of advice for what to do going forward. You know, these speeches are so 30,000 foot and unrelatable often. But by doing that, she actually seemed to be communicating directly with people who – I mean, clearly Democratic voters are struggling to figure out how best to channel their action. She was giving them concrete suggestions. I would suggest doom scrolling is is one of them personally it looks great for me especially if you're on the bulwark uh and you're just checking out our feeds

and subscribing it's a great way to get through the day but uh i don't know sarah i mean the bar so low like she didn't do a katie brit but beyond that i actually thought that was a fairly effective response yeah i mean look the responses really only get attention when they're terrible. Like the things that are, the things that are memorable about the responses are like, please, somebody get Marco Rubio a glass of water. Like what is wrong with Katie Britt? Is she having a stroke right now? And then like whatever was going on in these other ones, like we don't remember them because

they were just like perfunctory. There was the weird Bobby Jindal one where he was walking through his home oh yeah bobby jindal see like this is the thing though these are career killers like people i mean marco ruby i guess that okay but a lot of people he recovered it took him a while he recovered to be richly humiliated at tonight's stage that's right that's right yeahcovered. So I do think that here's what, here's what I think happened tonight for Alyssa Slotkin, which is, I think that Democrats are looking for some leaders. And I think that they probably look at her tonight and was like, well, that was good. Like that felt solid. Maybe you should talk more

Alyssa Slotkin from Michigan who had a Republican dad and a Democratic mom and seems to embody something sort of decent. And actually something Lauren said, I think is really true. You know, I much to the annoyance of my friends in the democracy sort of space, I'm constantly talking about how Americans don't care about democracy, quad democracy, right? And so if you want to tell a better story about a democracy, you need to tell a better story about America. Like it's always been really about saying like, why is America great? And tapping into something that people kind of have the sense of like, well, what is democracy? It's like this thing that we do here in America. And she found that, like Democrats have talked a lot about democracy and yet not found really the part about America. And she found that. Democrats have talked a lot about democracy,

and yet not found really the part about America. She reduced it to, quote, Trump would have lost the Cold War. That's the line, right? It was a very easy way to talk about democracy. He would have surrendered to Russia. Well, the people who think Liz Cheney lost the election for Kamala Harris, which, boo, that piece of analysis. They're not going to like the whole lionizing of Ronald Reagan from that Democrat right there.

But people like me, you know. Yeah, you love it. Let's go back to Trump quickly because obviously way more attention is going to be on him rightfully so he's the president. I think if there were places where I think there might be weakness, and I think we're generally in the same boat, right? We think that it was an absolute smorgasbord of lies and partisanship, but probably did the job that he wanted to. But there were a couple of places that I think ultimately there might be some weak spots. One for me was when he was addressing the farmers and anyone else who was going to be affected by the tariffs.

And he was like, maybe a little bit of adjustment period. Like, I feel like that line might come back to potentially haunt. A little disturbance, but we'll be okay with that. You know, that one could be shared. Go have fun. Go have fun, farmers. So much fun. And then the second one was social security now look the social security section was three minutes of just absolute

lies it's been debunked we're not paying 150 year old social security benefits it's just the way it's accounted but him getting up there and talking about social security in the context of cutting it whether you want to say it's for fraud or not is not the easiest tightrope to walk and slotkin in a way that uh no one else has done did bring up elon musk calling social security a ponzi scheme which he did do live on twitter uh and that's not something that tends to end well for Republicans. On Joe Rogan. Oh, sorry, on Rogan. Yeah, you did watch that. Come on, come on. Don't assign me to Joe Rogan if you can't quote it

properly. So that, to me, the Social Security thing, I think, is going to be you know, that's the soft underbelly here. Yeah, and I mean, she clearly went after Musk pretty hard, too. Like, even just as strongly as she did with Trump. And I mean, she clearly went after Musk pretty hard, too, like even just as strongly as she did with Trump. So I think Democrats clearly view the Social Security and Musk and all the firings with Doge as kind of this soft spot for Trump and Republicans.

Right. You know, and we've been talking about this with with all of the Doge stuff, too. Like it's not just people that in D.C. that are feeling it in terms of losing their jobs. It's people all around the country. And I think that they view that as something that they can totally tap into over the coming months. Well, Sarah, you and I have talked about it. And the question, I guess, keeps coming back is, is it worthwhile to focus your fire on Musk and let Trump skate a little bit by doing so? And I don't know. I think you could do both.

Me too. I think this is a weird thing that people do. I mean, maybe what we have to do is like, benefit Trump and Musk and we'll call them like- What would that be? Mump, I think. Tusk? Oh no. Rusk? Oh no.

Mump? I don't like any of those. They all make me really uncomfortable. I do think, I mean, I think it's important. Okay, so I'm going to stop. I think it's good to tie them together. I think that Trump sees Elon as a heat shield. I think Elon can be a bit of a heat shield.

He is, in fact, the unelected bureaucrat that we are being told. That was fucking nuts when they're, the unelected bureaucrat that we are being told. That was crazy. That was fucking nuts when they're complaining about unelected bureaucrats. Apparently a bunch of Democrats in the audience were like pointing at him being like, no, he's right there. Yeah. Sorry, go on. I interrupt you. Go ahead. No, no, that's okay. I just, yeah, I just, I really don't think that there's any reason why you can't go after both of them at the same time. And also anything that's bad for Musk is going to be bad for Trump. The only thing that you could say is like, oh, well, if it gets so bad for Musk, then Trump can cut him loose. Fine. Great. Let that happen and let them have

that fight. That feels like a good place to be. So I don't understand. People get this like paralysis by analysis where they like, ooh, who do we go after? I'm like, just do, just do it. Hey, I do the thing I do want to say though, about the speech going back to some of what, why I was sitting there being like, Oh, this is sort of effective is like the part where he, I mean, the speech writers could basically just take the night off. Cause they just kind of crept from a bunch of rally speeches. And then, but they did this part in the middle around USAID spending where they just did all of the, you know, Oh, here's all the silly things that I'm going to like mispronounce the name.

Who's heard of any of these countries? Yeah. I do think that's pretty effective for Americans. Like it just is. Americans are like, and it doesn't even matter sort of left, right. And center. Like people are like, why are we doing these things in other countries? I don't want to, I want to help people. And like, I thought that was an effective part too. Yeah. Slotkin like kind of address that.

Like she tried to say in Slotkin's response, like we are all for rain. She was like, we're all for raining in, you know, no one wants there to be, uh, you know, abuse in the government. No one wants the government to be ineffective or inefficient um but i agree sarah i thought that that was one of the strongest parts of his speech and also something that you can totally see just like popping off online and right millions of people who do not tune into the speech tonight are going to see that and they're going to remember that for tonight you also have to be super plugged

in to be like wait no it's not transgender mites it's transgenic mice and like that's totally different and it's like and then also aids male circumcision in mozambique like what the fuck it's like no it's actually to like stop the spread of deadly infectious diseases right sexual transmitted diseases and like this is bait, honestly, it's just bait. And they do it very effectively, right? Like there's merits for all this stuff, but they would love nothing more than to have their opponents be like, actually, we should spend, you know, $50 million on this stuff. And it really does matter. And like, you know, there's a reason they went after USAID first. Let's put it that way. There's a reason they went after USAID first. And Democrats, you know, maybe they could have prepared for it better. The foreign policy community obviously could

have prepared for it better. But ultimately, this was the easiest layup of a fight for them. And they frankly have won it. That's just the fact. Speaking of foreign policy a little bit, I got to tell you, I was relieved. I thought he might pull out of NATO, like in his speech. Yes, yes. And instead, he read that Zelensky letter. What do you make of that? Well, he didn't say he signed the deal, but it did to me was a huge, if you're, look, put it this way. If you actually are supportive of the US not abandoning Ukraine, like this was about as

good as it could have gone right in theory he could have gone up there be like we're done not a single cent more for ukraine he did say that he read the letter he didn't say he's going to sign the deal but he read the letter he was appreciative of it um he did have to temper it by saying he also wants to talk to russia it's like classic trump um but in terms of i I mean, foreign policy was such a small portion of the speech. For a second, I didn't even think he was going to get to it because it was like, what? Well, yeah, because we were in hour 30. And I was like, it's time.

It's time. I'm ready to give up on this speech. He did talk about Greenland and Panama and then the Afghanistan withdrawal, which he said, I supported getting out, just not the way. But I thought the Ukraine stuff, to your point, Sarah, it could have gone totally sideways. And that suggests to me that there is hope for some sort of salvaging of whatever it is that they're trying to do. But it's clearly not his central focus. It was gross in the sense that basically Zelensky gave Trump the optics moment he wanted that was like a bit of sort of not groveling exactly, but like he gave Trump exactly what he wanted to read out loud, which I always I find disgusting the way, obviously, that Trump treats Zelensky. But I think I don't want the United States to abandon Ukraine. And so I was sort of glad, and I was, I thought he might be like, we're pulling out of NATO or, you know, Europe, you're on your own. And like, so none of that happened. And I'm

glad about that. I wouldn't be surprised if we get some reporting about how the speech came together. Like people saying, you cannot say that. As he was walking into the rotunda. Sir, Mr. President, that might not be smart. All right, this one night has gone way too long already. Let's wrap this up with not a prediction so much as a reality check. These things to me can be overanalyzed in the moment as having great significance. And ultimately, I challenge either of you to remember one line that Joe Biden said, maybe Biden's not the worst, best example, but one line from any of these speeches that kind

of stands the test of time, other than Bill Clinton there of the government's over. Will this have any sort of lasting effect? And by lasting, I mean more than just Clinton there, if the government's over. Will this have any sort of lasting effect? And by lasting, I mean more than just a week. Lauren? No, I don't think these things ever do. I mean, if you think back to the last State of the Union, which was Biden, which was this big moment for him to show that he was alive.

He was back. And yeah, that didn't really work out well for him. No, these things really don't matter that much. Yeah. Sarah? I went on TV the next day after the

Biden thing and I was like, this is going to be the beginning of the Biden comeback. I was so desperate for him to like be on his toes. But here's the thing. And this is why it's like, oh, I don't blame Democrats for being annoyed or, you know, wanting to shout at the lies. But like, what do you remember about Joe Biden's speech? You gave Joe Biden his best moment by Marjorie Taylor Greene shouting at him and him being able to sort of parry back and forth. And Trump, you know, it has that sort of like, what's the wedding singer when he's like,

well, I have the microphone and you don't. Right. Like he's got the podium. He's commanding the room. And like, it's a tough spot for Democrats. I think like what's going to get played up tomorrow are like some of the feel-good moments that trump did that he sort of staged effectively and then the democrats behaving badly and like i i don't wish that to be the takeaway because

the takeaway should be everything he said was a lie basically um but i think i don't know it was more effective than i wanted him to be. It was effective. Again, I think we're all sort of on the same page here. He's very good in the showmanship elements of the presidency. He's very good at lying, frankly, and getting away with it. And ultimately, I don't think this ultimately matters, because tomorrow we'll either see the stock market continue to fall because of these tariffs, or he'll come with some half baked deal for Canada, Mexico,

and that'll be the story. And that's just, I'm sorry. Just one last thing that just really hacks me off about this though. Like the way that Republicans were, it's just like North Korea level shit. Like the way that they're just, the JD stuff behind him was unreal

they're all like yeah I want to cam on like Nancy Mace for the entire thing they love this shit though I mean even during the terror stuff I think it was reported only three of them were not clapping for the idea of reciprocal terrors

even though to a person they would all say we don't support the tariffs, but they were just clapping for it. It's a party personality. All right. Thank you guys both mostly to our people in the comments. Apologies for not getting to your questions, but it's late and we had to sit through about an hour and 45 minutes of Trump. Thank you for tuning in. We do generally appreciate it. We try to do these things to at least give you guys

some quick insight into how we view these events. And as always, do subscribe to our YouTube feed. Stuff like this pops up. We have a lot of stuff on the feed. It's a great place to get good material from the bulwark. Lauren, Sarah, thanks for enduring this with us. Really appreciate it.

We'll see you all later. Bye, guys. Take care. See you, guys.