Bulwark Takes - What It Takes to Bring Thanksgiving to Soldiers in Danger

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling (Ret.) joins Bill Kristol to reflect on what Thanksgiving means for the military, sharing his favorite stories from years of service, including the traditions, the meals, and the special efforts to bring a taste of home to troops and military families. Learn more about Operation Gratitude: https://www.operationgratitude.com Read Mark's article, "How the Military Celebrates Thanksgiving": https://www.thebulwark.com/p/how-the-us-military-celebrates-thanksgiving

Hi, Bill Crystal here from the bulwark, joined by my colleague, Mark Hurtling, retired Lieutenant General, many years of distinguished service in the military, specifically in the Army. We thought it would be interesting to people to talk about what happens on Thanksgiving when you're in the military, and I suppose, especially when you're deployed overseas, which you were for so much for your career. But I don't want to prejudge it, so you tell me what do we not know about what it's like to experience Thanksgiving in the military. Oh, man, Bill, I tell you, I'm so glad we're talking about this because one of my new Bullwark colleagues asked me about how do soldiers spend Thanksgiving when they're on duty? And it's kind of fun because it's a great holiday. And if you haven't experienced on an Army post in peacetime, it's terrific, because what you

see are the cooks and the mess chiefs and the mess halls or the dining facilities, as they are officially called, turn into a wonderland. It is unbelievable the things that they do, the amount of food they prepare. And I think most Americans would say, well, why are they? doing it. Aren't they having their Thanksgiving at home? Well, you know, there's a certain percentage of soldiers, about 40 percent that are single, that are usually either not going home for the four-day weekend or they hang around the post. And what happens is the soldiers who are there, single soldiers, certainly have a great meal and it's turned into an unbelievable treat for them. But for most of the military families, they go into the mess hall for their

Thanksgiving day dinners, too. And I think when you see that, the food service specialist, as the cooks are officially called. Their nicknames are spoons. You know, you just call a cook a spoon when you're in the military or mess daddy for the mess sergeant. They turn this into their premier event of the year. And if you haven't been to a dining facility in the Army or any of the other services, it is not something you would expect. They have ice carvings. They have the turkeys and cakes and pies and things all over the place. and the families come in and they're Sunday best. I don't know if that's an expression anymore,

but everybody dresses up. And even the kids have a ball. They're running back and forth between the ice cream machines and the dining facility and all the treats and everything. But what also happens, I think, which is the most fun part of it,

is the leaders of any organization, of any unit will put on their dress blue uniform, their full dress uniform, and they go in and serve the families from behind the mess hall lines. So literally the captains and the majors and the generals and everybody else are with the ladles and the spoons serving the turkey and given too much to all the people that are coming through and the mess sergeants get upset about that because it throws off their systems

and everything. But it's just a fun day in a garrison environment in one of our post camps or stations. But when you then extend that into a field environment, it's a whole different ballgame. That's what I was going to ask. So this is what you're describing is kind of universal if you're on a base here in the U.S., if you're on a base in Germany, if you're not combat, but I mean, but a... No, but in combat, it's completely different. It turns into a special event then, too.

And there's historical references. And in fact, I put an article together for the bulwark to explain this in detail through all the wars of the United States. Even World War II, there was a troop ship that I can't remember the number. I've got it in the article. I think it was like 1,600 tons of turkey that General Marshall during World War II said, make sure these meals get to the troops on the front line. So the amount of supply chain requirements to do that is just phenomenal. It is a monumental effort. And it's just give the indication and show the soldiers who are fighting that people care about them, that even

though they're away from their families, it is still a feast. It is a day to give thanks. Thanks. The history of Thanksgiving in the United States is a unique one. And we, the military, doesn't want to leave anyone out, whether it be family in a Garrison environment or soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, Coast Guardsmen, and guardians of the Space Force. And each one of the services have their unique and different traditions on this. You know, I was talking to a guy in the Air Force who had missile, missile men out in the middle of the Dakota's wilderness with the missile sites. And they would literally deliver the meals from the commanders to the missile sites to all those that were out there. The ships at sea, you know, they load up months ahead of time when you have

a long deployment. Like, you know, we've been talking about the USS Ford Strike Group. I'm sure before they even deployed to the Mediterranean, their cooks on board were thinking about not only Thanksgiving dinner, but Christmas dinner, New Year's and all that, and the storage of food on a ship like that when it's at sea is pretty intense. So it's a real logistics challenge as well. Yeah, I remember our son telling us when he got back from, he was a marine infantry officer in Afghanistan in 2010 in Sangan and Helmand Province, which was the middle of nowhere and eating seven months, basically eating MRIs or something a little one cut above, but not nothing much, you know. And the Marine Corps and the rest of the military correctly

prioritize other things than giving them wonderful meals, you know, spending a lot of money and time and logistics, getting them wonderful meals every night or anything like that. But Thanksgiving was special. And this is really the middle of nowhere. And they were in intense combat. And they got full turkey dinner. And it really was, I think it meant a lot to the, and these guys were kind of out there as a say on the frontier and feeling they weren't feeling neglected, but were, you know, they were at risk and so forth. And I think it, I think it means a lot in those circumstances. It's a wonderful tradition that they keep that up. And I know they go to a lot of trouble. to do it. Yeah, one of my favorite memories from my last combat deployment, I was commander

with First Armored Division, Task Force Iron, and Northern Iraq. And we had an area of operations that was about the size of the state of Pennsylvania. In that area that bordered the Turkish and Syrian border to the north, the Iranian border to the east, and Baghdad and Anbar province to the west, We had about 29 different combat outposts, forward operating bases, patrol bases. And the sergeant major and I, my battle buddy, Command Sergeant Major, Roger Blackwood, we had a meeting about a week before Thanksgiving, and we pledged to ourselves that we would hit every single one of our bases on Thanksgiving Day. So we took off in the morning, about 5 o'clock in the morning, and literally flew to each one of our bases.

And of course, as you go in, the cooks want to feed. you at each base. So we probably gained 20 pounds that day. But it was fascinating going to the more secure bases in places like Dialla province where they had a bigger base versus the smaller patrol bases where there was maybe a platoon or a company size element where we would touch down and literally get off, go to their child hall, go around, shake hands with the soldiers that weren't conducting patrols or doing operations. And that was a high intensity the environment too. What was interesting about that is the division's art major, my good friend Roger Blackwood, he had an experience during Desert Storm where his mother sent he and his

cavalry platoon a box of Twinkies on Thanksgiving. So, you know, he's saying, hey, that's the one thing we can't get in the middle of the Iraqi desert. So ever since then, he's made it his mission to deliver Twinkies to soldiers. So we had about 12 cases of Twinkies in the back of the Black Hawk helicopter. My personal Thanksgiving experience from Desert Storm was when a guy came along with a case of near beer, you know, non-alcoholic beer. So we had another X number of cases of near beer. So Sergeant Major and I would get out at each one of the locations and personally hand-deliver the near beer in the Twinkies to the soldiers at different places. We had one outpost on the top of Mount Sinjar, which is in northern Iraq, and it became famous during the ISIS.

attack where we had a six-person marine detachment that was running communications force. So it was the highest spot in all of northern Iraq. They'd put up a huge set of antennas, and we were allowed to communicate because of these six Marines, which were for a year up on the top of this desolate base. And we flew into there and got great pictures of us delivering near beer and Twinkies to these Marines, and they thought we were crazy army guys, but they sure did eat it. and drink it. That's fantastic, really. I mean, you went into the military way. You graduated from West Point in 75? No, I mean, yeah. Has it changed much? Or has it been pretty constant for all the

changes in our society and everything? During my time as a senior commander, what I saw was an increasing amount of competition on garrison bases between different dining facilities. And, you know, you always give the award for the best dining facility on Thanksgiving, so, you know, the commanding general would usually be the judge and go around and say which one had the best displays and the best pies and cakes and all that other stuff. And it was intense. And I remember my wife and I, when I was a one-star general at a place called Grafenbeer, which is the training center in Germany, we had one mess hall, one dining facility we went to at about six o'clock in the morning. All the cooks were there, they were getting ready, and I have never seen as many

turkeys being cooked in my life as I saw in that. There were probably 100 turkeys being baked at that one dining facility, along with all the other stuff that went with it. It's mind-boggling for someone who's not a cook to watch these young men and women who all go through, you know, the chef school at Fort Lee, Virginia, and they do a great job. And they are world-class chefs. The biggest thing is they train them how to do this at the cook school in Virginia, but they actually have a course on ice carving. And the only time that these cooks do ice carving is either Thanksgiving or Christmas. And you walk in and you see these beautiful ice carvings in the middle of what is normally a mess hall, and it just blows you away. It's really kind

of cool. To the locals, like in Germany, where they're, you know, cordial relations. And it's not, it's a garris. As you say, it's not in combat or not a tiny little combat outpost. Do they participate a little? Do they understand this? Do they think we're just crazy? What are they think? Well, no, because they understand what we're eating. And as a commander of a couple of bases in Germany, we would always invite the local Germans to come and have Thanksgiving. And they became, if they're a base like a Grafenbier, where there's always the same Germans around, they're invited every year. And they know what a special occasion it is, first of all, but they get into it as well. We've taught them about Thanksgiving and Halloween and they've taught us some of their

local fest, but it's always fun. I'll give you one more memory, Bill, that was special to me. When I was a brigade commander out in Fort Lewis Washington State, my dad came out. He was 84 years old when he came out to have Thanksgiving with us. And he was expecting, of course, to come to our house and have my wife cook a great Thanksgiving meal. And I said, no, no, no, we're going to the mess hall. And, of course, he served in the Army during World War II in Japan. And he was thinking we were giving him the shaft by taking the messall. He went in this place. He didn't want to leave. He just kept piling up the food and thought it was the best Thanksgiving he ever had. So it was a lot of fun. And having him meet my soldiers, too, was kind of a unique event, too.

It was just a really unforgettable experience. That's a wonderful memory. And any advice for civilians about is there some way they can help in this? Or people, I guess, send Twinkies, right? or send things the kids don't have. Otherwise, we did a lot of that in Afghanistan. Yeah, there was actually a group, a young woman by the name of Carolyn Blachick in California. I'll give her a shout. I know we worked with, yeah, my wife would have worked with her son. Operation gratitude.

Yeah. Back in 2003, when I was in Baghdad, I was an assistant division commander for General Marty Dempsey. And I get this email from Carolyn Blachek, didn't know who the hell she was. And she said, General, I understand you're with a unit over in Baghdad. and if you need anything, we've got this organization. We'll send you care packages if you just give us a list of names. So there's a story, and I wrote her back and I said, Carolyn, I said, I don't think you understand who I am. I'm an assistant division commander of a 30,000 soldier division. And I said, I don't think I can give you names of 30,000 people and you can get the packages here. She immediately

wrote back, and this is the legend of Carolyn Blachick, she immediately wrote back in 2003 and said, General, if you give me 30,000 names, I'll get you 30,000 packages, and she did. And that organization, Operation Gratitude, is still going right now, originally established in her living room. Now it's in a big auditorium where they pack boxes for soldiers and sailors and airmen and Marines, certainly. And the Marines are a big contingent of Operation Gratitude, so I'm sure you know them well. Yeah, our son knows, knew her son, actually, when he was in.

And I think he's on the board, it was on the board of Operation Gratitude as he got to know the family and so forth. And he's in New York and he helped raise some money and so forth. No, it's a wonderful thing. And it really is a case study of, you know, what Tocqueville said about America, these people form associations. She didn't get, you know, no one told her to do this. I mean, she really was her idea. And it's fantastic. It's great that you wrote back, though, and it didn't get lost in the bureaucracy and all that.

I'll tell you one more secret about Carolyn. So the first time I contacted her was in 2003 when I was in First Armour, Division in Baghdad. Fast forward to 2007, I'm now the division commander. She writes me. And she says, hey, I know, you know, we've been sending your soldiers packages, but I've got the two millionth package coming up. And we'd like to do something special. She said, Jeep, the Jeep Corporation has donated a set of car keys for a new Jeep in one of the packages that's going to be the two million. She says, I don't just want to send it out. I want to send it out to someone special. So could you pick someone in First Armour Division that would get this?

And we do this on the sly and not tell anybody. And now I'm telling the world. But I said, sure, Carolina, that'd be great. I'll find a young soldier that's got a big family and doesn't have a whole lot of money. She said, well, the only caveat I put on this is, can I deliver it in person? And I went to the middle of Iraq. We were up into Crete at the time. And I said, well, let me talk to my boss about that. So I called General Petraeus and told him the story and he said sure have her come over so caroline came to iraq with a couple of other people hand delivered the package with the car keys in it to a young specialist and it was her two millionth package that she had delivered to soldiers over a 10 year period of time wonderful story that is a

wonderful story and a good one to end on so we should wish happy thanksgiving to all the young men and women serving us all around the world thanks for doing this story it's the better side of the military right now yeah thank you mark and thanks for sharing it with us.