Bulwark Takes - Why Charlie Kirk Mattered So Much to the Right

Episode Date: September 12, 2025

Sam Stein and Will Sommer take on Charlie Kirk’s murder, the spectacle of Turning Point USA, Kirk’s role as a gatekeeper, his clashes with rivals like Nick Fuentes, and the legacy he leaves behind.

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Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. But MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Hey guys, me Sam Stein, managing editor at the bulwark. I am here with Will Summer, who is the author of our False Flag newsletter. We are coming to you, obviously, in an incredibly dark moment, sad one too. But we're also sort of processing what it means for our politics. Will, who has reported extensively on Charlie Kirk and his rise in conservative politics, pen to peace today that I thought was really, well, it's an important read, honestly. It gets at what Charlie Cook represented and why he was so important for so many people in that movement. I'm going to shut up because I don't really have much to add beyond this, but I am going to ask well some questions along the way.

But, Will, why don't you just start there? Why was he so important in conservative politics? Yeah, I mean, I think Charlie Kirk was important for, because he was sort of this, he had so many things going on, I guess. I mean, he sort of over the course of a decade rose from, you know, kind of a young Republican activist, no one had heard of, to having this gigantic organization, turning point USA, to being sort of confidant of the Trump family, an enormous fundraiser. You know, and importantly, I think, also being just like a very omnipresentation.

right-wing media figure, but not really just in right-wing media, right? I mean, he's not just on talk radio or podcasts. I mean, he, I think a lot of people from outside of the conservative media bubble knew him from TikTok, from YouTube. You know, he was, you go on all these apolitical podcasts. So I think he was, he sort of forged the path for the future of sort of like right-wing media influencing and being beyond just like someone who's posting takes or something like that, but being sort of a, just a, just really an enormous figure politically as well. Yeah, I guess the question is how do you manage to do that? And a lot of people have wanted to have that trajectory. They, of course, want to have an incredible amount of, well, an incredible following, frankly. And then, of course, obviously some influence on the direction of the political party. But Kirk, unlike anyone else, and at such a young age, too, he's only 31 when he was shot and killed. He was able to do that. Was there something that he understood that others didn't? Well, you know, it's a couple things.

I think, number one, I mean, he linked up with some donors really early on, some big donors who I think, you know, were sort of like rocket fuel to the organization's growth. But also, I mean, I think he made, you know, and I don't mean to say that, like, politics is really cool ever. But he made, you know, being a young Republican cooler than it was, you know, he threw these big kind of spectacle like conferences that unlike CPAC, people seem to have fun going to a lot of the time. and, you know, they had like, you know, smoke and big, you know, pyrotechnics, you know, and I think it's notable that the picture that Turning Point put out on his ex account today, sort of memorializing him is him in front of one of these big pyrotechnic displays. And so he, you know, kind of created this model for the kind of dynamic right-wing influencer that was, I think, a lot fresher than, you know, what we might compare to like Ben Shapiro or something like that. And I think

that drew a lot of young people into the party. Yeah, there's like a modernity to him, like something that was, if you ever been to like a seatback conference, at least, you know, five, ten years ago, it's a lot of, you know, guys on stage talking about the direction of the party and old debates that they've had probably a million times over. And you'd have keynote speakers and you kind of go through the motions. This was much more glitzy. And I think it got to something that he was really good at. Look, I don't know, I'm not going to like try to sugarcoat it. A lot of people, including out of. site had strong disagreements with both what he offered ideologically and his methods. And I think it's fine to admit that. But it's also worthwhile to acknowledge that he had, his method was pretty impressive by the standard of the metrics, right? Like he was able to build this organization. He was able to build a huge media following all in a very short period of time.

And one of the things that I thought stood out from your article, and I think in real time, I appreciated it, was that he understood the attention economy and that you could just, that getting people to follow you and watch what you're doing and to be in the conversation at all times really was at a premium. And he was really good at that. I mean, he perfected the art of confrontation. And he did it in like pretty simple ways. Like he showed up at college campuses. Yeah. I mean, you know, he he saw these college campuses. is an opportunity, I think, both to spread his message and to sort of emboldened conservatives or kind of right-leaning students. And also, frankly, you know, just to get content. I mean, this, he and Stephen Crowder were really, like, on the front lines of the, what we now know is sort of the trope of, like, you know, liberal, blue-haired, progressive, totally obliterated by, you know, by, you know, epic conservative. And so, I mean, you know, and that's, that's more

content, you know, for the, for the, for his internet presence. And so, you know, in that way, I think he was, he sort of was the model for what we saw in 2024 with the Trump campaign, being willing to go to so many more places outside of just political channels. Right. And to make spectacles of it, right? To like go there and try to humiliate people and also own them politically and things like that, which wasn't really something you could do until the modern media age. I mean, he had a real mastery of modern media techniques, too.

Yeah, I mean, I think he knew what would really like sort of say. sizzle online and, you know, and how to package that. And I think that's what drew so many people into his orbit. So who was in his orbit? I mean, obviously he had connections with the Trump world and Republican politicians. But like, who did he mentor? Who are the next people to come in? Yeah. So, you know, I mean, I don't think it's accidental that, you know, at one point, Benny Johnson worked for him. Candice Owens worked for him. And these are now people who are in sort of the top 10, along with where Charlie Kirk was, in sort of the biggest figures in the right-wing media.

You know, and beyond that, I mean, Turning Point USA itself is sort of like an incubator for these right-wing talents. They have the ambassador contributors, sort of like a legion of people that even I have often never heard of, and then I'll look them up and they have 100,000 followers on Instagram. I'll say, where did this person come from? But there's so many of them who are, you know, Charlie Kirk clones or based on that model. And, you know, clearly they look at him and understandably is sort of a success story in right-wing media and have tried to follow that. I mean, you know, we've talked here before about sort of, you know, tumultuous or moments at chaotic, at turning point conferences.

There's some really chaotic, grotesque things that happen there. Yes. Yes. And, you know, that, I think, is part of the appeal for people. And, you know, it's also sort of this world where all these influencers bump into each other. How do you to find what Kirk was doing? Was he a media figure? an operative?

Is he a politician? I don't know. I think he was sort of all of the above. I mean, you know, obviously he didn't run for office. But, you know, we, I mentioned the newsletter today. How many people were saying, oh, you know, he could have run for president. He could have run for office someday. But, you know, he was certainly an operative.

I think he was, you know, maybe, you know, along with someone like Sean Hannity, but maybe even more so, someone who is both an advisor to the White House. And, you know, he was vetting, you know, presidential appointees, while also having his own sort of media empire and a megaphone, you know, after the right-wing media backlash to the closing of the Jeffrey Epstein case, we know Trump called him and sort of said, hey, why don't you lay off? Let's try to change the narrative here. That's interesting, because I think people don't really recognize that he was divisive, obviously, but that he didn't just have, you know, foes on the left, that he had them on the right, too. That's right. I mean, I think the paragon here is Nick Fuentes, who is sort of a white nationalist podcaster who's sort of almost like a mirror image Charlie Kirk and has his own sort of legion of fans, albeit I think much smaller. And, you know, Fuentes and Charlie Kirk would often bump up into each other. Fentes, I believe in roughly 2018, felt that, you know, Charlie Kirk was sort of sapping the energy for what he wanted to be a much more racist Republican Party and Trump movement. And so the Groydbers, which are Fuentes' followers, began crashing turning point events, yelling at people like Representative Dan Crenshaw. And I think Charlie Kirk basically folded in this case.

I mean, they felt that Charlie Kirk was too open to non-white immigration. And then, you know, he did indeed start changing his rhetoric and start, you know, ultimately saying, you know, we need to end even legal immigration from third world countries. It is, it's kind of interesting. And I know we sort of touched that in the piece, but the willingness to sort of hang on to your audience to know where the movement was heading and not get caught up. I mean, he basically got rid of a conviction and kept his audience, and that was an interesting choice. What's the legacy he leaves? I mean, I think, you know, he's sort of laid out this model for how to be both this kind of a right-wing media figure and a power player and, you know, to have millions of dollars behind you. it's really hard to think of someone on the right who combined all of that together,

both, you know, obviously there are people with big, big audiences of their own, but in terms of, you know, a huge apparatus, I mean, he had this huge voting, get out the vote operation as well. And, you know, he was basically like the right-hand man of the Trump administration. And the other thing I would say is he really had a lot of power in determining through setting who got to speak at Turning Point USA conferences, who was allowed in. He had a lot of power over sort of what was considered acceptable discourse in the Magamese. keeper. Exactly. And so, you know, if you lost your job as a TPUSA contributor, if you were

banned, you know, from speaking, then that would sort of signal, I think, what Trump more broadly and sort of what MAGA represented. Well, thank you for writing this incredibly difficult to write about these things in the moment of real despair about what happened. But I thought you did a really, really eloquent job with doing it. So thank you for that. And for those who are watching, Thank you for watching us talk about this difficult subject. We appreciate the engagement for our audience. I'm going to leave the comments open on this one, and we hope that you are respectful and mindful in them.

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