Bulwark Takes - Will Israel Attacking Iran Tear MAGA Apart?

Episode Date: June 13, 2025

Tim Miller and Will Sommer analyze how the MAGA movement is reacting to Israel’s strike on Iran and what it could mean for Trump’s coalition moving forward. As tensions rise overseas, deep divisions are surfacing within the far-right. From Jack Posobiec’s warnings about a fractured movement, to Nick Fuentes accusing Trump of betrayal, to Tucker Carlson openly opposing any U.S. involvement. We’re seeing cracks in what is usually a united front. Is the MAGA coalition’s “America First” mantra clashing with pro-Israel hawkishness?

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slash audio boom. Hey everybody, Tim Miller from the Bulwark here with Will Sommer, who writes our newsletter monitoring the MAGA right. I want to talk about how MAGA world, the online MAGA world, and maybe those some of those inside the administration are reacting to Israel's attack on Iran last night. I thought it was pretty noteworthy that Pizzagate Jack Posobiec posted this before the strikes. When kind of rumors were circulating. He wrote, This strike would divide MAGA, especially at a time we are totally united on immigration and have the momentum. Let Wipkow cook. He was talking about Steve Wicuff who's working on the negotiations with Iran, which obviously didn't yield a successful deal given the ongoing military action that

is happening that we are at least tacitly participating in. So, Will, I'm wondering what you make of that. Is it going to divide MAGA? If so, with whom? Just, you know, what are you kinda seeing out there in the chatter this morning? Yeah, so, I mean, you know, we'll have to see long term if it divides MAGA, but I do think this is a real fault line, maybe the fault line for the the MAGA coalition. Israel in particular or war in general? I would say Israel, probably. And and And you know,

certainly the idea of going to war for Israel or allowing them, risking getting embroiled in a war on Israel's behalf. You know, I think there are a lot of people on the right who have kind of convinced themselves that the Republican party is dovish, Donald the Dove and all this stuff, despite all the other evidence. Last night, Nick Fuentes, the sortish, you know, Donald the dove and all this stuff, um, despite all the other evidence, um, last night, Nick Fuentes, these were white nationalist leaders, been in Mar-a-Lago, he was live streaming, getting a ton of audience and just saying, you know, Trump has betrayed us. He posted a meme of like a guy with a MAGA hat, getting his head crushed by a boot. Uh, and so, I mean, he's not happy about it.

I think people like Psobic who are a little more moderate, but still claim to be, you know, anti war. So far, we'll have to see. I mean, it's still relatively early. He was really out there yesterday against the idea of Israeli strikes against Iran. So far, I think there's been a lot of like, pray for the troops. Oh, I hope we stay out of it. But we haven't seen a ton of denunciation of Trump so far. But we haven't seen a ton of denunciation of Trump so far. Yeah, I mean, look, I don't think this will divide MAG in the sense that you'll see this big internal fight over this issue unless things get out of control and unless events change. We've seen this before under the things the Jack Pesovics of the world are going to circle the wagon around, you know, their sugar daddy, you know, like nobody wins in MAGA world by going against Trump. And so these guys all come around eventually. But there are a couple exceptions

to that, both outside and inside the administration. I want to focus on the outside. Tucker, I think you mentioned Fuentes, who, you know, whatever is racist, but has a base of power among young, racist white guys. Tucker also has a base of support that is somewhat independent from MAGA. Obviously it overlaps, but you know, I think that he has an audience that is there for him. He had a morning newsletter this morning, Drop Israel, let them fight their own wars. It's not America's fight. In bold, he writes, the United States should not at any level participate in a war with Iran. No funding, no American weapons, no troops

on the ground. He goes at the end at one of his former Fox colleagues. He says, no matter how many bogus anti-Semitism allegations, neocon ghouls like Mark Levin hurl at Americans who advocate for that path, opposing, destroying the United States in the name of the Netanyahu government has nothing to do with anti-Semitism. So, I mean, not even, no mincing of words from Tucker this morning. And so there will be at least that one powerful outpost that opposes this no matter what kind of the situation like is like on the ground, I think. Yeah, you're right that I think Tucker has been probably the most prominent mainstream Republican pundit who has even after the strikes criticized them and criticized whatever U.S.

involvement there was. And I think that's because he's staked out since leaving Fox this real kind of isolationist point of view. His show, when he has people on, a lot of them are very against war. I mean, he had, after the Pete Hegseth purge at the Pentagon, he suggested that all these Hegseth people were getting pushed out because neocons wanted war with Iran. And so I think we can expect him to- And he had that historian on, we should mention that historian, Daryl Cooper, who was tweeting out yesterday that they should bomb Tel Aviv. I mean, who was out there, who was who was out there, who was tweeting out yesterday

tweeting out yesterday tweeting out yesterday that they that they should bomb that they that they should bomb that they that they should bomb Tel Aviv. I mean, it seems Tel Aviv. I mean, it seems Tel Aviv. I mean, it seems like he was the historian like like he was the historian like like he was the historian like the kind of Hitler. Let's

the kind of Hitler. Let's the kind of Hitler. Let's take a second look at Hitler take a second look at Hitler take a second look at Hitler type of story. Yeah, this is the type of story. Yeah, this is type of story. Yeah, this is the guy who said Churchill was the guy who said Churchill was the guy who said Churchill was the great villain of the war and so

great villain of the war and so great villain of the war and so the idea that like any kind of the idea that like any kind of the idea that like any kind of intervening in a conflict that intervening in a conflict that intervening in a conflict that doesn't directly involve your doesn't directly involve your doesn't directly involve your country is wrong and and and country is wrong and and country is wrong and and and yes, I mean, that's very much yes, I mean, that's very much yes, I mean, that's very much yes, I mean mean that's very much like the isolationist group in the party and I

think represented by Tucker most prominent. Yeah a couple others over at Breitbart, Matt Boyle tweeted this this morning basically 90% saying don't get the USA involved this is a test Trump pace is moving forward. So again, depending on whether this escalates, could develop into something that becomes a fissure. I do wonder internally, you know, what is happening and obviously JD Vance, as we saw in the Elon fight is going to side with Trump, no matter what. But he also was sticking out his claim on the more of the isolationists, right? I mean, it was Tucker that was advocating for him. And if you recall, I don't know the exact quote, but Tucker's, I guess, I don't even know if Tucker said it publicly, if this was reported in a story, but essentially that was reported that Tucker said to Trump, like, the deep state is going to come

for you if you make Marco the VP, and the neocons are going to like, you know, might try to assassinate you or force you into the war with Iran, right? And so JD Vance was kind of the point person for the stronghold for this isolationist wing. He posted Donald Trump's post about what happened. The only other thing that I've seen from him so far publicly was an attack on Lloyd Austin, some random person, Kelly Magsaman, who's a national security wonk with 23,000 followers, did a post attacking Pete Hegseth. JD Vance quote tweeted that, even though he wasn't tagged in there, talking about posting behavior and shit on her and then attacked Lloyd Austin.

So that's the extent of his commentary so far. Yeah. I mean, if we think back to the leaked signal chats where J.D. Vance was saying, I don't know why we're getting involved with this stuff in Yemen when in reality, obviously, that was being used as sort of a pressure point on Israel. So, I mean, certainly at least privately, and he's been giving all these speeches that are saying, you know, the U.S. needs to pull back from world conflicts. And yeah, I mean, yeah, I think we can definitely expect him to

back Trump here. It's funny. I feel like Trump was initially this idea that the US, oh, we did, you know, who's to say what our involvement was, you know? And I think as it seems as though the strikes were successful, I think the Trump administration is kind of creeping out a little more and claiming credit. And I think maybe that initial reluctance was sort of a nod to this sort of the peacenik wing of the party. Yeah. Well, I just just think it'll be interesting. I mean, I think that Trump, obviously the Trump is a dub stuff is ridiculous and betrayed by all facts. I think we're in a little bit of a different moment than in the first term because there was four years of this kind of sentiment of like, we can't waste money in Ukraine. It's not our fight.

Like we have to rebuild nationally. Like to me, that is the part where the fissure could develop. Like less so on like should we support Israel or not? Obviously, there's going to be some blatantly anti-Semitic folks on the right and some hardcore isolationists who are going to oppose that. You know, that is, you know, there's kind of some limits into how much that fissure can expand within the actually DC part of MAGA, you know, congressional leaders, etc. But if you end up in a situation where there needs to be more funding, more weapons, more money, you know, and the ground has really been primed for getting MAGA voters to be opposed to any of that.

primed for getting MAGA voters to be opposed to any of that. And I think there is some danger there that's short of even troops on the ground, as far as Trump is concerned about managing his own coalition. I think that's a great point. I mean, you think about all the rhetoric about we have to shut down USAID, all the stuff that's like, why are we involved in any other country helping people or being involved in their affairs? And so then you start saying, like, you know, if there's going to be, you know, whether it's a to Israel or, you know, you're going to rebuild in Iran or who knows? I think you could easily see that there would

be a lot of people saying like, Hey, I thought, you know, do we need to do this effort? I think that there will be some, some maybe desire to doge. And I think that the doge crowd is probably gonna be pretty anti this stuff too. When you think about how the different kind of factions might overlap. Okay, well, just after I saw the Tucker newsletter, I figured I would get your two cents on that. Will, we will keep monitoring this and got a bunch of stuff already talked to Tom Nichols kind of more about the substance of what's happening on the foreign policy side of things with this administration with Israel and Iran. So make sure everybody checks that out.

We'll see you all back here soon. Peace.