CALLING HOME with Whitney Goodman, LMFT - Emotional Incest

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

This week on Calling Home, Whitney discusses the topic of emotional incest, also known as covert incest. This form of emotional abuse occurs when a parent or primary caregiver treats their child like a romantic partner, relying on them for emotional support typically provided by a partner. Whitney will talk about when emotional incest often occurs and outline the three types: the romanticizing parent, the friendly parent, and the critical/abusive parent.  Have a question for Whitney? Call Home at 866-225-5466.  Head over to cozyearth.com and use promo code "callinghome" for an exclusive 35% off. Click here to get “Toxic Positivity” on paperback.  Join Whitney’s Family Cycle Breakers Club for further support and discussion on family dynamics at CallingHome.co. Follow the Calling Home community on Instagram or TikTok.  Follow Whitney Goodman on Instagram or TikTok.  The Calling Home podcast is not engaged in providing therapy services, mental health advice or other medical advice or services, is not a substitute for advice from a qualified healthcare provider, and does not create any therapist-patient or other treatment relationship between you and Calling Home or Whitney Goodman. For more information on this, please see Calling Home’s Terms of Service. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. summer's here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats what do we mean by almost well you can't get a well-groom lawn delivered but you can get a chicken parmesan

delivered a cabana that's a no but a banana that's a yes a nice tan sorry nope but a box fan happily yes a day of sunshine no a box of fine wines yes Uber Eats can definitely get you that get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats order now alcohol and select market Its product availability may vary by Regency app for details. Hey, everyone, welcome back to The Calling Home Podcast. I am here today for another solo episode. These are always my favorite to record. And today we're talking about a topic that I think the name sounds really intense.

And I think that's by design, because it is a really intense phenomenon that I think if you haven't experienced this, you may not understand. how much of an impact it can have on you. And that is emotional incest, which is also known as covert incest. And this month, Inside Calling Home, we're talking all about family emmeshment. And emotional incest is something that can happen in really emmeshed families. So emotional incest or covert incest is a form of emotional abuse. where a parent or a primary caregiver treats their child like a romantic partner.

And the parent really relies on the child for emotional support that a partner would typically provide. And unlike other forms of incest, you know, when we hear the word incest, I think we think a lot of like sexual abuse, emotional incest isn't physical or sexual. It really just involves putting a child in an adult emotional role. role before they're ready. And this form of incest is specific to the relationship between a child and a primary caregiver like a parent or a grandparent or another adult in that child's life that is raising the child and is in this type of parent-child dynamic with that child. I know the word incest, like I mentioned, may sound intense or even inflammatory here, but I find that many feel

that it accurately describes the way this type of abuse has harmed them. And this word might sound familiar or similar to the other types of dysfunctional family relationship dynamics that we've discussed at Calling Home. You know, one of those I mentioned that we're focusing on this month is emmeshment. And I think that emotional incest occurs in enmeshed family. So not all enmeshed families will have emotional incest, but when there is emotional incest, there is emmeshment. And so emmeshment involves relationships with blurry or non-existent boundaries in a family. And like I mentioned, we're covering this for the entire month of June Inside Calling Home. If you want to learn more about that, you can go to callinghome.com and join the Family Cycle Breakers Club, and we'll be having

a matched family groups all month long on this topic for the month of June. And it's also pretty similar to parentification, if you've heard of that. It's really similar to the type of parentification that's known as emotional parentification, where a child is forced to take on the emotional burden that a parent or caregiver would usually shoulder. And I do have a free parentified child's workbook that you can get for free when you sign up for our email list. So you can also go to our website, calling home.com, and sign up for my email list. And then you will get access to that workbook, which could be really helpful to help you kind of break down, like, is this emotional incest or is this emotional parentification?

And the two are really tied together. So while these concepts are similar, emotional incest really differs in that it's specifically describes the relationship between a parent and their child or primary caregiver, and it doesn't include siblings or extended family. And rather that taking on the emotional role of parent, children end up taking on the role of partner. And in the book of the emotional incest syndrome, Dr. Patricia Love details three different types of emotional incest. And I want to walk you through those three different types. So the first one is the romanticizing parent. And this is a parent that typically turns to a child usually of the opposite gender for the

intimacy and companionship that they would typically find in a romantic relationship. The child becomes like their spouse and the relationship might include even like flirting and teasing, which can be really uncomfortable and confusing for a child and really confusing and uncomfortable for you to unpack as an adult. And then the second type is the friendly parent, which is typically a parent of the same gender, and the parent sees them as their quote unquote best friend and partner, and they have a relationship that operates in that way all the time. And so the role is really of friend more than it is of child, and you can see how that

would get really complicated and messy. And then the third type is critical slash abusive parent. And the child in this situation is used for emotional support and releasing anger or tension. And the parent really oscillates between treating the child kindly and then abusing them. Whatever the parent is feeling is directed at the child's. And the important thing to recognize here is that all three of these types have two things in common. Okay. So the first one is that the parent, uses the child to satisfy their needs of intimacy, companionship, romantic love, problem solving, and emotional support. And the child cannot satisfy these needs. Developmentally, they are not

able to do that. And they're being put in a position where they're being asked and expected to do that. The parent also ignores the child's needs and cannot adequately provide them with the protection, guidance, structure, discipline, or affection that is needed. for a child of that age, and the child is meeting the needs of the parent, and the parent is not meeting the needs of the child, when really this should be reversed, right? The parent should always be attempting to meet the needs of the child, and the child is not expected to serve in this role where they are meeting all of these needs of the parent. And so let's walk through some examples of how emotional incest shows up in these relationships and some examples of what it

looks like. So one of them might be when a parent overshares details of romantic relationships with a child. This is something I hear about a lot, especially when a child is serving that role of like mini therapist or partner to the parent is that they become deeply involved in their romantic relationships and knowing a lot of details about breakup or even sexual activity, things like that, that they really should not be hearing about at their age. And then the other one happens in a partnership where a parent discusses marital troubles in detail with the child. And this you hear about a lot, right?

Again, the child serving as like a mini therapist to the parent. serving as like a couple's therapist trying to help them manage any marital discomfort. And when this happens, it can be extremely difficult for the child to maintain any type of relationship with the other parent or partner of that person because they are constantly being asked to form an alliance with the parent that is creating this emotional incest type of bond and relationship. The other one is when a parent puts their own emotional needs before a child's emotional needs.

And so you would see this in a dynamic where the parent is highly emotionally volatile. They don't have a lot of good coping skills. They are unable to manage their moods. And so the child is always needing to conform and contort themselves to the emotional needs of the parent and not to overshadow them emotional. And this means that a child in this position is going to constantly be suppressing their own feelings and making sure that their feelings are not louder than their parents so that they can take care of the parent. Another example is a child is forced to give up age appropriate activity so they can be present for their parent. You know, unfortunately throughout my work, I've heard a lot of stories of children going to bars.

with parents, being taken to a casino, being asked to go to the store to buy something for their parent, being put in positions where they need to steal for the parent, or even just attending parties and events that are specifically for adults with the parent to be a companion to them. And when the parent sees the child as a partner, they do not see them as a child. They see them as someone that is there to be their companion at all of these events, even when the event is not suitable for a child. And every time a child has to do something like that with their parent, when this is happening consistently,

there is no time for age-appropriate activities or play because the child is not being considered their age. They're being looked at as if they were the parents' age. their friend or their partner. Another example is that a parent may be jealous of their child's friends or anyone else that occupies the child's attention. And so you will see parents who, you know, specifically do not allow their child to have friends or say, you know, so-and-so is not good for you. You shouldn't hang out with this person. And it's not because that person did anything wrong. Obviously, parents have to be protective in those situations. But this is because the parent does

not want anyone else to take away from their relationship with the child's. And when a parent doesn't give the child privacy or their own space, this can also lead to emotional emmeshment. I remember I was watching like the series finale of Shameless recently. And if anybody's watched that show, the girl Debbie, the character in the show, she has a young daughter and she's a single mom and Debbie's also very young herself and she was looking at an apartment and the apartment had two bedrooms and her daughter says oh mom this will be my bedroom and Debbie says oh no no no you're going to sleep in the room with me we'll just make this a guest room and her daughter is I think maybe like five or six years old at this time

and you can tell that Debbie is really struggling with allowing her daughter. to have her own space and privacy and area for herself. And she really sees her daughter as an extension of her. And this was just one of those moments where it's like the child could not have her own space. She could not develop her own identity. She could not have her own privacy even as a young kid because she needed to meet her mom's need of being fearful of being alone. And her mom was very much treating her as more.

of like a friend or an extension of her than looking at her as her own person that might need her own space. I'm so excited to introduce you this week to cozy earth. Cozy Earth bedding is seriously my favorite. Their betting products will transform your sleep and make it so much easier for you to get comfortable at night. And the thing I love about them is they have temperature regulating in them. So for any of you moms who are pregnant or postpartum, you know that this is super helpful and something that you need, especially when you're dealing with postpartum night sweats and all that fun stuff.

If you want to check out Cozy Earth's Superior Softness, Unparallel Fabric Materials and Weave, we have a discount for you. You can use the code Calling Home, C-A-L-L-I-N-G-H-O-M-E, all one word for 35% off at cozyearth.com. And another example of emotional incest that may come up is when a parent vents to a child about trouble at work. This can be especially difficult if the parent is always about to lose their job, fighting with someone at work, engaging in an affair with a boss or something like that.

And the child is aware that their parent needs to work to have money or what has happened when they've lost their job before, and that can put a lot of pressure on the child and a lot of worry about what they're going to do if their parent can't successfully resolve this conflict at work. And the last side I'll tell you about examples of emotional incest is when a parent makes the child feel guilty if they aren't complying 100%. And so children in these situations often learn that if they do not comply or listen to the parent or do exactly what they want, that their relationship with them is at risk. And maybe they are going to be punished or isolated or abandoned if they do not show up for the parent 100%.

And this is why these children can turn into adults who continue to mimic this relationship with their parent or potentially with others because they have learned that like this is what gives me security in relationships, and this is what I have to do in order to feel secure. So if you're thinking, like, I have a parent or a caregiver who did this to me as a child, and I want to know why they did this, there are a couple of reasons that we understand, you know, can be causes for emotional incest. And I want to give this caveat that not everybody that struggles with these things that I'm going to list and describe engages in emotional incest. But it can make it more likely. And typically when we see cases of this, these things are

involved. And so the first thing is unresolved mental health struggles, right? So if you have a parent who was undiagnosed, untreated, not getting held, their mental health was really not being managed, they may be more likely to engage in emotional incest because they are using the child as a form of support and a coping mechanism. The other one is emotional immaturity, which can be a symptom of somebody with unresolved mental health issues. It can also be something that stands on its own. Emotional maturity is something that is learned and practiced and it's a skill that we develop over time. And parents who are emotionally immature actually may be more successful at maintaining relationships with

children where they're able to be in charge and to assert power over that relationship rather than being in relationships with other adults where there are certain expectations for their behavior, right? The other one is, of course, unhealthy boundaries. Not having boundaries is one of the major components of emmeshment and emotional incest. All of those examples that I describe to you are a lack of boundaries between the parent and the child. for the caregiver and the child. And so if you did not learn how to set boundaries, if your parent didn't have boundaries with you,

you may then go on to replicate this pattern with others. The other thing is distrust of other people. You know, if you had a parent or a caregiver who did not trust others, who had really bad relationships with partners or especially potential like romantic interests or friends, they are more likely to feel like I can only trust. my child because they are an extension of me and we're related and we're family and also

they're a child. They don't have a lot of agency, you know, subconsciously they might feel like I can control this relationship. And so having a distrust of others and not having a support system, which is the last one is an insufficient support system, will really lead someone to engage in this type of behavior with their own child from childhood through, you know, potentially adulthood and into the present. So it's very important that parents and caregivers have a support system, whether that is their spouse, their partner, friends, other adult family members to help them manage these stress and the mental load of adulthood so it does not get put on to the child. Now let's talk about the consequences of emotional incest. So if you

recognize some of these signs and you're like, I grew up with this, like this is something that I experienced, then I want to talk some about what it feels like to experience that and what the consequences of that might be. The first one is that you really didn't have the opportunity to develop healthy emotional boundaries. And this might be why you struggle with that a lot in adulthood. And that's not necessarily your fault. right? If you had no one around you that could model healthy boundaries, you are going to struggle with that and it's going to be difficult for you. You may also not really have a good sense of safety because you felt so responsible for your parent or your caregiver's emotional

stability. And this can make you be on edge all the time, you know, constantly looking out for how person is feeling, what they're doing, if they're showing any signs of, you know, needing your support or any signs of emotional volatility, you know, all of that can lead to a feeling of a lack of safety or instability. You also really didn't have the space to just be a kid as a kid. You know, when you're put into an adult role in childhood, there is no space for childhood. And so you may not remember being a kid. You also likely developed an inability to recognize your own emotional needs and an inability to care for your own emotional needs because you are constantly focused on the needs of your parent and serving that role for

them. And doing that as a child means really learning how to silence how you're feeling and what you need. You also might experience guilt when you have your own needs and when those needs need to be met or you have to ask someone else to help you meet those needs. This can also lead to struggling with making decisions because you constantly were told what to do, who to be, how to act, and you outsourced a lot of those decisions likely to the parent that you were enmeshed with or that you had this like a covert incest type of relationship with. The other part is a lot of trouble separating yourself from the parent and the parent's needs. So you might feel as if you and your parent are one. And sometimes that can feel really good and sometimes that can feel

really bad. It also feels very scary to separate yourself from someone that you feel so intertwined with. I saw this example online that, you know, in meshment and I think emotional incest is like this as well, is really like you're a string and your parent or your caregiver is a string. And now imagine that you have balled those strings up and tied them into a million knots. And now you're trying to untangle them. And it's so difficult to figure out like where you start and where they end and everybody is just like tied up into this bowl. You may also struggle with low self-esteem. And we see higher risk. of anxiety and depression with people who were involved in emotional incest, you know,

during childhood and that led into adulthood. The other thing to note here is that covert incest does occur on its own, but often other types of abuse are happening. So people who experience covert incest also typically are neglected. And the child's needs often fall to the side when the parent is like at the forefront. And so the parent is not meeting the child's needs, whether that's emotional needs or physical needs. And that would be classified as neglect. Also, a lot of times with emotional incest, you see other emotional abuse coming into play. So the parent may threaten their child

or withhold love from them. And it's also possible that the parent can be able to, be engaging in physical or sexual abuse. But according to the childhood emotional incest scale, there is a scale that you can take to see how much of this you experienced. Neglect and emotional abuse are the most common co-occurring forms of abuse with emotional incest. Another consequence of emotional incest is that if you did experience neglect and other forms of abuse, you are at higher risk for developing complex post-traumatic stress disorder or see PTSD. And so that's definitely something you want to consider and look into if you relate to this episode and potentially see a therapist or a healthcare professional that can help you

get that diagnosis and get the treatment that you need. Now, if you're listening to this episode and thinking, wow, this really describes my life and I want to know what I can do about it now, You know, some of the recommendations are pretty like, you know, obvious and higher level. Like, of course, getting professional help is so important. So seeking therapy, I know you're listening to podcasts like this, but going to someone who can really evaluate your individual situation and help you navigate what you experienced is really powerful. It's also important that you acknowledge.

what this dynamic is, right? And so if you are a parent, you need to recognize how you have engaged in emotional incest and acknowledge that dynamic with your child. You can apologize and work towards intentionally building a healthier relationship with your child. And you can, you can explain, you know, why you were brought to that position, how you see how it harmed your child and how you want to change your relationship in the future. And please do not underestimate how powerful that can be. And if you are an adult that experienced this in childhood, it's really important that you build a support system around you, that you can rely on outside of the parents that you might be enmeshed in or that you've had this emotionally ancestral dynamic with. And

you start to figure out how you can set boundaries, say no, ask other people for help, and really come back to learning about who you are as a person and who you are outside of this relationship. And all of these things, I know they sound really easy, like set boundaries, seek therapy, build healthy relationships, but this is hard. And it takes a long time. And if you are realizing that you had this type of dynamic for the first time while listening to this episode, like, cut yourself some slack because you're not supposed to know this. You only know what you know when you're growing up and you don't realize till much later when you hear other perspectives that like, okay, that didn't really feel right. And maybe that's responsible

for how I feel today in XYZ way. And so you have to give yourself the chance to understand it, to grieve it, to feel the pain that comes with it, and then to say, okay, I want to do something different so that I don't repeat these patterns in other relationships, whether that's with my children, my partner, friendships, other family members, et cetera. And even if your caregiver or your parent doesn't want to change this dynamic, let's say they're really clinging to it, it's still what they know, you can still assert your independence in adulthood and start to break this pattern. I don't know that it will be easy or that it will always feel good, but it is possible. Thank you so much for listening to this episode today. I hope that it was

helpful. And just as a reminder, we will be talking about emmeshment and emotional incest inside the Family Cycle Breakers Club at Calling Home all month long for the month of June. You can join me for six groups a month. All you have to do is sign up at at www.callinghome.co. And we would love to have you in a group. There's also tons of courses, worksheets, everything you could possibly want on the website. I uploaded all of my old courses that I created that are like, you know, over a thousand dollar value for free to the Family Cycle Breakers Club as well. So please go ahead and check that out. And I hope to see some of you in a group soon. Thanks. And have a

rest of your day.