CALLING HOME with Whitney Goodman, LMFT - How to Raise An Emotionally Mature Child with Dr. Lindsay Gibson

Episode Date: July 14, 2026

Dr. Lindsay Gibson's first book, Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, gave millions of people language for what happened to them growing up. Her new book flips the lens for the people who are now raising kids of their own and are quietly terrified of passing it all down. Whitney sits down with her to talk about what actually builds emotional maturity in a child, and what to do in the moments your own immaturity shows up.In this episode, you'll learn:Why the fear of becoming your own parents is often a sign you won'tWhat emotional maturity actually looks like at different ages, from newborn to teenagerWhy ruling through fear works in the short term and costs you the relationship long termHow to repair with your child in a way that actually changes the pattern instead of pseudo-apologizingWhy you don't have to be the perfect source of everything for your kidConnect with Dr. Lindsay GibsonGet her new book, How to Raise an Emotionally Mature Child: https://amzn.to/4fbX135 [this is an affiliate link - as an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases at not additional cost to you.]Whitney Goodman is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT) and the founder of Calling Home, a membership community that helps people navigate complex family dynamics and break harmful cycles.Have a question for Whitney? Send a voice memo or email to [e-mail] the Family Cyclebreakers Club: https://callinghome.coFollow Whitney on Instagram | sitwithwhitFollow Whitney on YouTube | @whitneygoodmanlmftOrder Whitney's book, Toxic Positivity: https://sitwithwhit.com/toxic-positivitySign up for updates on Whitney's new book: https://cmnyyv4kpyt.typeform.com/to/PHMzjy0oThis podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest really needs no introduction. She has been on the show before, and I am so excited to have her back. You know Dr. Lindsay Gibson's name and you know her book, Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It probably put language to something millions of people had felt their entire life and could never name. It's probably the book that I recommend the most and I think that most of our members have read and we do have a group. at calling home for adult children of emotionally immature parents. Her new book, How to Raise an Emotionally Mature Child, flips the lens. It's for the adults who are now raising kids of their own and who are terrified of passing down what was done to them. By the end of this conversation, you'll know what actually builds emotional maturity in a child and what to do in the moments you feel your own immaturity showing up. Before we get into it, if this is the work you're doing, the family cycle breakers club at Calling Home is where we do all of this together. It's a community of people actively breaking generational patterns with structured support, real tools, and licensed clinicians who get it.

This month, we are focusing on daughtering and the invisible load that daughters carry in dysfunctional families. We also, like I said, have a group for adult children of emotionally immature parents twice a month, I facilitate that group. And so if this episode resonates with you, that would be a great group for you. You can join at callinghome.co. And remember that we're here with a new episode every Tuesday and every Thursday answering your questions in a Q&A format. You can send those questions to Whitney at callinghome.com. All right, let's go ahead and get started. Well, I think that, you know, I said in my introduction that you really need no introduction, I think, with, with my audience and you're very well known for your book, adult children of emotionally immature

parents, but this book totally flips the lens onto raising emotionally mature children. And I'm wondering, why did you want to make that pivot for your next book? The surface answer is that with a lot of my clients that I was working with, so many of them had anxiety over whether or not they were going to be able to be good. parents to their children given some of the things that we were talking about that it happened to them in their childhood. And I've even had a few clients who have flat out told me that they're not planning to have children because they're sure that they're going to kind of pass this down as if it's, you know, some kind of genetic emotional immaturity. And there's like a, you know,

a thing that they're going to be, a script that they're going to be unkind. following, and they don't want to do that to their children. So that's the surface answer. Underneath that, though, I am just fascinated by this whole topic that we have this potential within us to become really these fully realized, emotionally mature people. And I'm not talking about people who turn into philosophers and psychology professors. I'm talking about your run-of-the-mill ordinary, quote-unquote, person who is capable of relationships, who is capable of relating to other people at a deep emotional, bonded level, who takes pleasure in their work, and who lives a life that feels filled with meaning and mattering. Now, to me, that is the most fascinating thing in the world,

like, how did this come to be? Why are we like this? And I wanted to really start. at the very beginning to show that the way that we relate to our children is going to give them this edge or this leg up, so to speak, in all areas of their adult life if we pay attention to a few key things. So that was sort of the, you know, the deepest level of my motivation. A side benefit of it, Whitney, was that if you're trying to raise an emotionally mature child, And you get these concepts, okay? There's no way that you're not going to also be emotionally maturing yourself in order to do that. So it's kind of a stealth book.

If I had written the book that said, how to be an emotionally mature parent, I mean, everybody would be terrified to pick it up. Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. Yeah. But you get there by this other way of going about it. Exactly.

It's actually funny because I did a podcast. episode that's, I think, like, one of the most popular ones we've done called How to Be More Emotionally Mature. And I was trying to sort of turn the lens back on how can we develop these skills ourselves instead of calling it out in others. And I felt that a lot in your book that it would be impossible to do this work as a parent without also absorbing some of it yourself. So I think that was a great way to weave that in there without calling out the parent that. might get defensive about their own emotional maturity. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It sounds like you had the exact listener in mind that I have in mind when you were writing this book, which is that

terrified parent who is like, am I going to be able to do a good job or am I going to create these same patterns in my children? What I'm hearing is that you have a lot of hope for these people and believe in their potential. And I'm wondering if you could speak more to where that comes from, like people's ability to learn these skills. Yeah. Well, you know, you have your emotional experiences. You have your hands-on interactional learning as a child that you just sort of absorb into yourself. And that forms a substrate of your eventual emotional maturity. So that part is the experiential aspect of it. But, you know, thank goodness, when we get to be about,

12 years old, our brains undergo a transformation and we are able to think at an abstract hypothetical level. We're able to actually look at ourselves, think about our thinking, become self-observing and objective in a way that gives us this huge tool that is able to let us see what it is that we're doing and what it is that we're missing and gives us this aspirational desire, really, to become more of what we consider to be ideal. We start pursuing our own identity, our own ego ideal in life. And once you get that capacity, then things like self-help books, education, therapy, all these things, they enable you to come in and begin to really relate to yourself as a work in progress. And it raises your conscious self-awareness.

And the remarkable thing is that we actually can do this for ourselves and our own lives by thinking about reading about learning other ways of being. And if that is, you know, in harmony with emotional maturity, we will recognize it because I think we're all programmed for emotional maturity. It's like the potential for language, you know, the potential for physical coordination. It's baked in. We come into the world with that potential.

And if it's been suppressed, you know, like holding a cork under the water by emotionally immature experiences with, by our interactions with emotionally immature parents or other people, then we have the ability within ourselves to go back and understand what happened to us and sort of release that cork. So it pops back up to the top of the water because that's where. it belongs, that's where it wants to go. So we have a lot of agency in terms of how we mature ourselves. And it's a lifelong process as far as I'm concerned. I totally agree with you. And I think that is a very hopeful message that almost as if when you leave this environment where there's so much emotional immaturity going on and there's not a lot of good modeling that you can find other ways to access that within you and in yourself at any age. And that's something I want people to really take away from your work is like, this isn't just something that happens in childhood.

It's great if it does, but we can access it and learn it later. Absolutely. We're always in a process of becoming. I mean, we live in a kind of a worldview that, you know, things, things are done and then it's over and then we go on to the next thing and then that's over. But really life and nature and human beings are much more fluid than that. They're always developing. And, you know, when you think about evolution and survival, how could it be otherwise? I mean, what good would it be for us to grow to a certain point and then not have any hope of becoming more adaptive after that? You know, going back to why you wrote this book, it sounds like,

there's this process happening, I think, between parent and child throughout the lifespan. And I see this with my own children that I'm constantly like learning from them and adjusting. And I'm curious, like, do you think that the parent can raise an emotionally mature child without also going through this process themselves and working on it collaboratively with the child? I think that is, an essential foundation to it. However, if for some reason the parent can't do that or they feel like they're not very good at it, I mean, we all have our strengths and weaknesses, you know. But if we have at least the concept of some of these things like the importance of the connection or, you know, how essential empathy is and how important humor and one,

and enjoyment and play and all those things are. But we may not be very good at it ourselves, and we may be realizing that, and we may be working on that, that's fine. That's okay. We just need to maybe think about how we can get some more of that in our child's life. Yeah, yeah, totally, even if it's not through us.

Even if it's not through us, because, you know, now we all go into our homes and we close the door and, you know, we could not be heard from for a week, and maybe, you know, people would notice that maybe they wouldn't. You know, we've gotten very isolated. But way back, the child was exposed to all levels of, I think, emotional maturity in people. And they could, they had this smorgasbord of interactional opportunities. And we want to, you know, sometimes we have to do it in a kind of a deliberate, clunky way. to put our child in the way of that kind of influence or that kind of experience. But that can be done.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I love the idea that not, this has been very liberating for me as a parent, like, that not everything has to come from you, that other people can be sources of this well-rounded approach to your child. And if you notice that, because I notice this in myself, like, I am very impatient with something or whatever, that I don't have. have to be the one to be perfect in that area. I can also expose my child to other influences that they can learn from. And that can be liberate. That's also, I think, an emotionally mature, insightful response, right, to be able to tell I might not be the best person to give my kid this. Yes, absolutely. And that means that you also are doing this wonderful thing where you are appreciating these qualities in other people, which means that you're able to kind of step into their experience and think, gee, this would be hard for me to be this way. This would be hard for me to be laissez-faire about this or that. I'm probably not the right person to take this person to the

amusement part. Exactly. Exactly. But, you know, but let me jump at the chance of finding somebody else, whether it's a preschool teacher or, you know, maybe it's a friendly neighbor, maybe it's my sister, you know, whoever, that, you know, brings this element that I admire and appreciate about being human. I can put my child in the way of that and let them sample that. Yeah, so true. I love that. And I think that can be really, take the pressure off of parents to, like, not be everything, which is another pressure I think we're seeing today in, in the parenting worlds. There is an overall principle that I took away from your book, like an underlying message, that we should treat our child the way that we want to be treated. Treat them as if they are

deserving of the same respect as an adult, right? And to me, this is so simple, but I think it's really hard for a lot of people. And I'm wondering if you can speak to that philosophy and why it might be hard for certain people to do that. Yeah. Well, you know, in our culture and just about any kind of Western, especially capitalistic culture, we are so used to being goal-oriented and to achieving what we want, working toward it, and really we can end up even treating our relationships as goals to be accomplished or things to get done. Okay. So that would be super easy to get into when you're raising a child and you've read a bunch

of parenting books, okay? Because you might mistake sort of the territory for the map of the territory, meaning that you would feel good about how you're progressing according to these, you know, certain things. But, you know, are you engaged in the story? spirit of it. Are you really taking the moment to be present with your child to really see them to, there's an old word called behold, meaning that you take them in in their essence without judgment, without agenda. So it's not that, oh, here's this, you know, raw piece of clay that I get to form into

the successful person that I can be proud of, but more like, oh, I am encountering this little spirit who is going to be showing me who they are. And can I relate to them in such a way that we can be connected through our mutual individualities? And can we enjoy each other, or learn to enjoy each other in our differences? So it's very hard. I think in our culture to step out of that more prescribed kind of way of working with children. And as a result of that, I wanted this book to be more of, here's how to put yourself in this frame of mind that is going to create deeper attachment, more fun, more recognition and validation between us.

Here's how to think about approaching it as opposed to, you know, these are just, you know, the seven things to do kind of thing. I have, you know, some of that in the book, of course, as well. Right. But it's more like how do we approach the idea of parenting in our child? And what are some ways that we can think about it so that it becomes automatic? Like the thing about, you know, just don't or treat your child the way that you'd like to be treated, that's one. But I think it's even easier to remember just don't do something to them that you wouldn't like done to you.

Exactly. It's the negative. It's the, you know, obverse of that. It's like, would you like somebody to scream at you and make you feel stupid? No, I really would not like that. Right. Okay. So let's apply that idea.

to how you approach your child the next time that they spill a quarter of milk on the floor. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And that was such a takeaway for me. It's something that I am trying to embody of this. If you need to set a limit or with your child or teach them something or there's something that they cannot do, can you do it in a way that you would do that is respectful and kind in the way you would speak to another person. So, you know, if my child needs to stay in their bed, for example, saying, okay, I'm going to take you back to your bed now and tucking them in, rather than screaming at them, be like, you need to be in your bed, get back there right now, because I don't want to be spoken to like that. And I'm always sort of thinking ahead to like,

are they going to think that's normal in a relationship in the future if I speak to them that way and they think that, or they're going to replicate that behavior, that putting yourself in that mindset of like, I'm not going to treat them in ways that I really don't enjoy is very helpful. I think it's a good, like, gut check throughout the day, honestly. Yeah, I think so too. And, you know, they are learning about emotional intimacy or intimate relationships, that is, close family type relationships from just these kinds of tiny interactions. So what happens is that, you know, yelling at somebody to get back in their room, that also gets linked up with the feeling of closeness. Like, this is what we, this is the

level we get to when we're really close with somebody. We sort of let it all hang at and we get very reactive and we say what we're thinking off the top of our heads. And somehow this means that we are really like almost like family now. And so we do have to be aware that we are giving them this baseline of what close relationships mean. And it doesn't mean that you stop treating each other with care and respect, you know, hopefully. It means quite the opposite that you do as much as you can, as much as you humanly can. You do more of that as you get deeper in. You know, to a relationship. Exactly.

I'm very much aligned with you on that. I think for many years, we've sort of treated our family relationships and our relationships with our children as these things that are always going to be there, no matter how we treat them and we save our good behavior almost for the outside world. And I hear that from a lot of adults, you know, who are estranged from a parent or have an emotionally immature parent. Like, my parent was so nice to other people. people and they were horrible to us. And so thinking about these relationships, I know you had said

in a prior interview, like treating them like a cherished friend is so important. And how would I treat my child like a relationship that I want to keep? We all have checks that we put on ourselves when we're in a relationship that we want to keep. But we also know there's nothing really binding us to this person and they're going to freely choose to be our friend or not. And we kind of, that's a piece of reality that we acknowledge subliminally. And we, you know, comport ourselves accordingly, right? But unfortunately, yeah, people think that, you know, once you're in a family, once you're married, once you have a child, you can sort of let it all hang out.

And that's sort of like, I have the, you know, the free pass to become as emotionally immature as I want now because this person is bound to me. But, boy, the culture has changed. There is no binding like that anymore. I mean, I'm sure there are exceptions and I'm sure that there are lots of people who feel differently about that. But I think the tide is really turning. I think that's why we're even having this kind of discussion. That's been my experience as well. And there's sort of this new cultural belief that I ultimately think is a positive thing that we should treat our family members better. We should treat them as people that we that are going to want to stay around us for more than just the obligation or the duty. You know, I don't want my children to feel that way about me. I would like them to have some sense of wanting to be around. me because of the quality of the relationship. And something that you said in your book that really

stuck with me was that putting yourself in the shoes of the person you're raising at least tells you how not to treat them at any given moment, right? Yes. And this perspective taking is something that I find a lot of estranged parents struggle with, taking the perspective of their child. So if there was someone who's parenting now, how would you help them maybe do more of that perspective taking with their child? Well, it comes back to, I think, this very basic idea that's enormously helpful to hold onto when you're trying to get the right attitude toward your kid. And that is that this little person,

is as real inside as you are. Now, they may not be as smart as you are in terms of their intellect. They certainly don't have the experience base. They certainly aren't socialized like you are. I mean, there are all kinds of, you know, elements that they have not achieved yet. So, yes, in that sense, they are not as skilled as we are. But in terms of their emotional reactions, in terms of their ability, to experience feelings, to experience the way things feel like to them,

they are just as emotionally here and present as we are. So lots of times I think people miss that fact in children because children don't show the same kinds of emotional signals that adults have learned to show. And we know that they can't talk about their feelings and words like adults can. So we understand that they may not be able to put their feelings

into words for us. But I think something that's also missed is that children, you know, for a few years, really don't understand how to communicate emotion in a way that is compelling to an adult.

For instance, if, let's say the parent is mad at the child because they ran into the street, okay and so they get the child they bring the child back you know maybe they they you know take the child by the shoulders and say you know in their face don't you ever do that again you scared me to death and the child looks at them with this blank face all right and doesn't say oh mom oh dan i'm so sorry i did that oh my gosh you're right i'm so sorry that scared me too uh no they are in a state of shock because your emotional response

has just put them there. Okay? So they're not showing anything on their face, except the fact that they are having to process more relational energy and experience than their little brains can manage. So they look like a deer in the headlights. And we think, because if we forget that they're real inside and they have all our emotions too,

we think we're not getting through to them. We think we have not had an impact on them. Now, that's a dramatic example, but there are a million things during the day where we want to have this emotional impact so that they will learn. And they look at us as if they're really not taking it in. They're not processing it. They're not, you know, interested in it. But that's because they haven't yet learned the facial expressions, the gestures, whatever, that we as adults recognize as emotional communication. So if we keep that in mind that they are feeling it, they just haven't gotten to the point where

they can express it in a way that's easy for us to recognize, that we have to guess and empathize a lot when they're little, at least until they're like, you know, seven or so. Right, right. You know, in order to probably be pretty accurate about what's going on inside them, they just don't have that capacity yet. but they do have the capacity to feel it and we are having an impact. Right. This is why, and I think your book does this in a big way, but this is why I think so many

parents before they have children need to take like a child psychology development, you know, course and understand what children are capable at each age. I think throughout your book, you reiterate that like children are not tiny adults that are are progressing on this, you know, plane towards adulthood and just growing larger. And we forget that a lot. I think that's what you're speaking to now. It's sort of you're looking at this little human and thinking, why aren't you matching what I'm doing? Why aren't you capable of showing me what I need from you? And I think a lot of these expectations are probably passed down, right? That their parents did that to them.

And so they think that's what should be expected from children. And it sounds like you're calling on really a radical shift in how we view kids and what we understand about their capabilities at every age. Yeah. And that's why in the book I put in, you know, basically from newborn to young adult. Because if you're trying to raise an emotionally mature child who can be as happy and successful as possible in their lives, then you have to kind of understand what the steps of emotional maturation look like. Okay. I mean, what's emotionally mature for a newborn?

Scream their head off. What's emotionally mature for a developing teenager? The need for time to themselves. The movement away from the parent in terms of the parent being. sort of a model for them to find their own identity. And so when people have asked me, well, what does an emotionally mature child look like? My first question is, well, at what age? But that maturation over time and through these different developmental challenges that they have is going to end you up with a person who knows how to have good relationships with other people.

They kind of approach life in a very realistic way, such that they understand cause and effect, they understand consequences, and they do stuff that makes life a little better instead of a lot worse, because they're not impulsive and reactive. And they go on to, you know, keep their vitality and their interest

in whatever it is that they're going to do with their lives, you know, whatever kind of work they're going to do. do. So we are looking for the kinds of, I guess, signals that they are tackling this job of becoming a full human being at the age where they need to be doing that. And that's going to give us some index of, you know, how they're doing. But it's a long, slow back and forth process. It's not a straight line. Absolutely. Yeah. And you, I mean, you can feel that as a parent, like, especially in those early years of like, whoa, I thought we mastered this. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I thought we're done with this. And now we're kind of going back again. And it requires a lot of patience. Like, I, to me,

that's such a, I don't know if you think this as well. Like a lot of emotional maturity is being patient sometimes, I think, and not being reactive. to what's in front of you immediately. Absolutely. I mean, patience is everything. And I do want to say that it absolutely counts if on the inside you are hopping around with impatience. Okay, that's fine.

I mean, the emotional maturity piece is that you may be feeling all of that on the inside. It's not that when you become mature, you stop feeling. feeling that. You're feeling that on the inside. But you are also aware there's like a split screen in your mind. You're also aware of what the effect is going to be on the situation if you give into that and start getting emotionally reactive and start yelling or, you know, whatever you might do under those circumstances. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can't tell you how many times in a day, I sort of feel like I have that split screen in my brain. I'm like, you're speaking so kindly.

You know, when I'm thinking of my kids, like, oh, that's amazing. And in my head, I'm like, oh, my God, what is going on? But, you know, that's, that's emotional maturity. The split screen is that we have that capacity for situational awareness. And we have the capacity to know what the consequence would be of doing this or that. We have the possibility of a choice point to work toward the effect or the future that we want. Okay. I mean, that's what a grown-up is hopefully going to be able to do. Yeah. I think it's so important that for everybody listening kind of highlight this here because

this is such a good moment to remember that it's not the feeling it and the thinking it and like the almost wanting to react in that way that is bad. You're allowed to have, I love this split screen in your head image of like, I can think all these things and be feeling them and also choose a different reaction. And then maybe at night when I'm with my partner, I'm talking to a friend, I can share how I was feeling in that moment and also how I reacted in a way that was very attuned to my child. And I want everyone listening to this to know that you're going to have those feelings and you're going to have those experiences because, I mean, I had them this morning. So it's very normal. And that's, that's not what we're trying to get rid of in the pursuit of emotional

maturity. Yeah. No, absolutely. I'm reminded of a moment that I had with one of my son's very good friends. This is, I mean, long after they were adults. And I think we were out to dinner or something. And we were just talking about the old days and when she used to come over and so forth. And she said, you know, it just always struck me that you never yelled. And I felt good about that. And simultaneously, I felt like, oh, honey, if you only knew how much I wanted to yell. Yeah, totally. You know. So, but that's the difference. It's not that you don't have the, you know, because we all have that like that little Russian nesting doll.

We have that little inner child that wants to, you know, blow our stack or, you know, strike back or whatever. That's part of being human. We have, you know, like a layered brain. And so we sometimes have to, you know, like go through those layers of reaction internally. before we hit upon, you know, the response, not the reaction, the response, that is going to take us where we want to go. But that inner wrestling with our, you know, sort of more impulsive natures, that's part of being human. Yeah. Absolutely. I want to shift the conversation to talking about power and fear because I think a lot of the adults that listened to this show were raised. in more authoritarian type of homes and are trying to move away from that parenting.

And in the book, you write that a parent's real source of power isn't force or fear. It's the quality of the relationship and how much your child loves and trust you. And I fully agree with that. I think for some people, this is a hard one because they were raised to really want to make their child fearful of them and to assert their power. And I'm wondering if you can help people who were raised in that type of environment shift their mindset to relationship quality instead. Yeah, it's kind of like, do you want your effects to be lasting or do you want them to be

quick? So, yes, you can get quick results, absolutely, from making anybody afraid of you. I mean, you could pull a weapon on somebody and, wow, you have instant control. Is that a good idea, you know, given broad situational awareness? No, but it will give you power through the fear that you induce and the other person. And it's the same thing with parenting. So we sometimes can feel like the only way that we can really matter to our child is by inducing some kind of, you know, like deep feeling. And then that shows us how much we matter to them.

So we can look at it from the standpoint of, are we trying to pull power over them? Yeah, sometimes we are. But the other thing is we also want to matter to our children. We want our reactions to matter to them. We want to have an impact on them. Just the same way we want to have that impact on our partner, on our friend, on our, you know, work situation. We want to matter. And sometimes if we feel like our children just aren't attending to us enough or we don't feel like we're having enough of an impact, we can sort of grasp at that in a, you know, kind of a a more forceful way to try to get a reaction that tells us, you know, we are still the object of their attention. We still have influence over them. But if we do that in a way where we are

actually scaring them as a way of commanding their attention, it helps to think, okay, what am I going to do when they are 16 or 17? And, you know, what am I going to do? What am I going to to do when they're 22 or 25 and they can just not come home anymore. We really need to think about the long game that we're playing with our child. And anybody who makes you feel fear, you're going to have an animal response to that of wanting to create distance because we're trying to create safety for ourselves. So in some ways, it's sort of like a cost-benefit ratio thing that we have to go through when we are tempted to use fear to get control. It's not as effective in the long term in getting what you want as building the relationship and treating that child like, you know,

they're a real person with real feelings. Do you think for some parents kind of ruling through fear feels less vulnerable than getting close with their children? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, especially in a culture like ours, we do not like to feel vulnerable. And it feels like we are losing control over our survival, actually, because if you don't have impact or control within your social group, and I'm just saying generally a social group, it's even more intense when it's for you and your child, it's a parent-child kind of relationship, you are really endangely. of having your survival compromised. Now, that really shouldn't be true in our day and time or living in a maybe a country where we're in suburbia or we're living in a city or something.

We're not exactly under threat with those conditions, but our bodies will feel like we're under threat. And we have to keep, you know, keep in mind that this is something that is going to be a reaction, whether we intend it that way or not. And avoiding that vulnerability, I think, comes at such a cost. You know, often some parents completely lose their relationship with their child at some point because they were not willing to be vulnerable with them. I'm also curious if you've seen some parents, who having a child is maybe one of the first times in their life where they have had power over someone and how that can sort of feel even good for them. I think that's hard for a parent to admit, but I don't know, is that something that you've encountered in your work? Yeah, I mean, I think it's such a human temptation, you know, when you have this little person

that, you know, demands a lot from you, but they also give a lot. I mean, they give a lot of attention. They admire you. They copy you. They want their programmed, so to speak, to want to be like you. I mean, you are the apple of their eye. They adore you. They need you in a way that probably nobody else ever will in your life. I mean, quite literally, they need you. Okay. So it's very tempting, just as it would be for any of us to, you know, in a way sort of take that on as a part of our identity that I have this power over this little person. I mean, you can see, you know, there's the thing about the old saying of, you know, power corrupts an absolute. power corrupts absolutely. You can see that in the lives of some people who have become,

you know, insanely powerful or wealthy and how their values and how their approach to the world seems to change under the influence of that. And that's because they have been moved into another part of their brain, essentially, that has another set of values and another set of focus and they really are becoming a different kind of person as a result of the kind of power that they had. So that can happen to us with our children. And that's why I think, you know, to go back to your point about the vulnerability, it's very important to remember that we are safe with our children when we become vulnerable with them or when we let them know that we think we've made a mistake or that we're,

we are sad about something or that we, you know, are not sure what to do about something. When we reveal these moments of vulnerability to them, they're very interested in that. Very interested in that because it's not only letting them get to know you better, but it's teaching them about this aspect of life that maybe they haven't had words for up to that point. They certainly have felt it because what's more vulnerable than being a child? 100%. Yeah. So if you can realize that your vulnerability with your child will probably bring you closer with them, then you have the opportunity to try that out, maybe in little tiny ways. Okay? Just letting them know, like, you know, I'm sorry, I snapped at you. I didn't sleep well last night.

I've been, you know, concerned about some things. And, you know, I didn't mean to take it out on you. But, you know, today I'm just feeling off. I'm out of kilter today. That's you making yourself vulnerable, for instance. And it's a way of letting them know, oh, here's what we do when we're feeling unsafe or unprotected or vulnerable. Like we're making mistakes all the time. Oh, we can tell the other person that we're in that state.

and then everybody knows what's going on and we can kind of go on from there. I think this is a perfect segue to pivot to talking about repair, which is what you were really just highlighting is how important repair is with our children. And I think it can help us avoid the dissolution of this relationship down the road. You know, in adulthood, if we start practicing that repair young. I'm wondering if you can walk us through, you know, what a parent might want to do when they're repairing with their child and just what that would look like on a basic level. Yeah, that's a really good question because that transition point between whatever it is that happened and where you actually get to the repair work. That is, you know, what you end up saying to your child or how you end up interacting with them.

There is a period of time in there, okay, that's very important to know how to navigate. It's a kind of a black box. There's, you know, oops, I made a mistake in my parenting. I didn't like that. And then there's the point where you go to your child and you, you know, you try to work it out with them. But in between there, there's this very important job that we have to do as parents. And that one is that we are going to let ourselves feel it. And nobody wants to do this.

Nobody wants to feel even worse. I mean, it's bad enough that you notice, oh, I shouldn't have done that. Okay. And we want to get out of that as quick as we can. All right. Sometimes that's fine. Sometimes we just say, oh, I'm sorry, you know. But other times, if maybe this is not the first time you've done this with your child,

maybe you've done this, you know, several times this week with your child. Our job in terms of our own emotional development, which is going to help our child's emotional development, our job is to stop and feel what it was like to be that way with our child. and if we give ourselves a moment to feel that, we're going to feel bad. Okay. That can take us to all kinds of places within our own memories and within our own psyche to where maybe this happened to us or when we've had an experience

or maybe that your child is reminding you of your partner at that moment, something that they always do to you. I mean, there's some depth to why you responded in that way that you didn't like. And if you can stay with it for just a few moments to kind of be curious about why did I get so upset over that? What was it that I thought their behavior was saying to me? if you can sort of break that down through your emotional awareness, then you can sort of not only prepare yourselves to go in and do the repair with your child,

but you have started to repair something inside yourself because that kind of behavior that we regret is usually coming from some little broken piece of ourself that never got mended, that never got attended to, never got thought about, never got integrated into our personality, and it just popped out under the emotional stress of the moment. So the self-awareness, the sort of the little bit of self-analysis in that moment, like where did this come from? Why was I so sensitive to that. What's going on with me? That is essential to the quality of your relatedness to your child when you go back in to say, you know, honey, I'm so sorry. I feel bad about that. I shouldn't have snapped like that. And you don't have to give them the, you know,

psychoanalytic treatise on why. I mean, that's, you know, that's per sempal. identifying the child, that's making the child your therapist, you don't need to dump all of that into your child. You need to integrate it within yourself so that your self-knowledge makes you into the kind of parent who's complex enough inside to handle your feelings and then to go on to handle your child's feelings. So when we are able to, you know, go back to, you know, go back to. to our child in that state, where we've done a little bit of self-examination, it's going to ring truer to them than just sort of like, oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah. You don't, even if you're not telling them, this reminded me of, you know, what dad's been doing for the last two weeks with me or

what happened at work, even if you don't share that with them, the way that you talk about your regret is going to, it's going to give them that feeling of, oh, this is something that's bigger than me. This isn't, this wasn't all about me. This was about something, you know, to do with mom or dad. And they are able to really take it in because they can sense when you have done your work. They really can. Totally. Totally. I do agree? Yeah. I mean, I think kids can, and you write about this, that kids can feel disrespected or misunderstood even before they have the language for that feeling. And I think that's something probably both of us see in a lot of adults is like, I've just always had this feeling that my parent doesn't like me. They don't care about what I think. And it starts in those small moments. And we all

know the difference between a flippant like, oh, I'm sorry to try to get someone to shut up. and a real apology even without all of that emotional dumping that you're talking about. And this piece in between, I think is so important for everyone listening to really hear is that that has to happen for you to not keep repeating this, right? Because if you don't understand it and you're just saying, I'm sorry to move on and kind of like pseudo repair, that's not real repair or a real apology because the behavior is not going to change. You're just going to do it again until you really get at, why does this keep happening? And is there something I need to change in my day, in my life, and how we structure things so that I don't keep reacting this way?

Yeah, and you can do it so simply. I mean, of course, it would be wonderful if everybody could pick up the phone and find a therapist at moments like that to, you know, go process it. But that can be hard these days. the market is tight on therapists. But one thing that you can do is you can take 15 minutes at some point during the day and ask yourself that question, why did that bother me so much? Why did I have such, let's go back to, you know, toddler time, why did I have such big feelings about that incident?

And then you can start kind of free associating, meaning you just, write down whatever comes to your mind. You don't have to punctuate it. You're never going to show this to anybody. You can tear it up or shred it as soon as you're done. But it's just your way of letting thoughts come to you in a very, you know, kind of random or open way. And it's amazing what you can get to in terms of what's really bothering you. And we don't take the time often to do. And we don't take the time often to do that because it seems nonproductive. I mean, we're not going to publish it. We're not going to share it at the PTA. It's strictly for us. But that kind of inner work is so helpful, you know, just like you're saying, to figure it out and integrate it so that it doesn't have to be acted out

again. Yeah. And it really helps you depersonalize it. I think with so many parents, we think that our children's behavior is always like directed at us or saying something about us. They're being disrespectful to me. They're making me feel this. And really a lot of times kids are not trying to do anything to us or their behavior as nothing to do with us. They're just being kids. And when you can take out that personalization and be like, this is reminding me of this. This is making me feel the same way I feel when I'm in a meeting with my boss makes it so much easier to just respond to your child rather than this all this other stuff. Yes. Yeah. I think that's so important for people to to take away from this episode. And I

I really want to thank you for being here today. I think people, especially parents, will learn a lot from this and hopefully be able to implement some of these exercises that we discussed even right after they listen to the episode. So thank you so much. Oh, it's been my pleasure. Thank you for having me, Whitney. Thank you so much for listening to this episode with Dr. Gibson. I hope that you enjoyed it. If you're the parent who's keeping score of every moment you've already gotten wrong, I hope that you heard what Dr. Gibson said. Repair counts and the relationship is built out of what you do next, not out of a perfect record. Your kid doesn't need a

parent who never fails. They need one who always comes back and tries again. You can go get Dr. Gibson's book anywhere books are sold. I will link it in the show notes and it is called How to Raise an Emotionally Mature Child. If her first book helped you understand your parents, this one helps you become the one you needed. And if you need help with this actual worksheets, scripts, groups, We have an entire content block. We spent it a whole month dedicated to how to becoming more emotionally mature, which I think would be a great add-on to this, especially for those of you that are parents. And you can find that inside the Family Cycle Workers Club.

We have so many resources about parenting after childhood trauma, parenting after a complicated childhood, and dealing with grandparents who might be emotionally immature. And if you want to have a question answered on Thursday, you can think that you can send that in a voice note or written email to Whitney at callinghome.co. I will be answering more questions this Thursday. Thanks for being here. As always, please don't forget to like, subscribe, leave this review or comment on this episode, especially if you loved something that Dr. Gibson shared with you today or if you'll be getting her book. Bye, everyone. Have a great day. The Calling Home podcast is not engaged in providing therapy services, mental health advice, or other medical advice or services.

It is not a substitute for advice from a qualified health care provider and does not create any therapist, patient, or other treatment relationship between you and Calling Home or Whitney Goodman. For more information on this, please see Calling Home's terms of service linked in the show notes below.