CALLING HOME with Whitney Goodman, LMFT - How to Recognize a Narcissistic Family System

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

In this solo episode, Whitney explores narcissistic family systems - what they look like, what they feel like, and what recovering from them might entail. She explore roles like the scapegoat and enabler, discusses why image matters more than authenticity in these families, and explains how the parenting styles of narcissistic parents create long-term, but not insurmountable, harm. Whitney Goodman is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT) and the founder of Calling Home, a membership community that helps people navigate complex family dynamics and break harmful cycles. Have a question for Whitney? Call in and leave a voicemail for the show at [phone]⁠⁠ Join the Family Cyclebreakers Club⁠⁠ Follow Whitney on Instagram | sitwithwhit Follow Whitney on YouTube | @whitneygoodmanlmft ⁠⁠Order Whitney’s book, Toxic Positivity⁠⁠ This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Reading, playing, learning. Stellist lenses do more than just correct your child's vision. They slow down the progression of myopia. So your child can continue to discover all the world has to offer through their own eyes. Light the path to a brighter future with stellus lenses for myopia control. Learn more at SLOR.com. And ask your family eye care professional for SLOR Stellis lenses at your child's next visit. Hey, everyone and welcome back to the Calling On podcast. I am your host, Whitney Goodman. We are going to be talking about narcissistic family systems today. Before we get started, I wanted to let you know that we have officially started the new month at Calling Home. Every month inside the Family Cycle Breakers Club, we focus on a new topic. And I send you a worksheet, video, script, and I send you a worksheet, video, script.

article every single Monday to help you with that specific issue. And so this Monday, yesterday, if you're listening to this, on the day that it comes out or watching, we sent out our first bit of content on narcissistic family systems. And then starting tomorrow on Wednesday will be our first support group on the topic. I'm really excited for this topic. I think that you are going to learn a lot. And I will, of course, have some podcast episodes like the one today about the topic. But if you really want to like dive deeper, take it a step further, meet other people that have gone through what you went through and also have all of these resources that you can use in your own therapy for journaling, in your own like

work that you're doing on this. It's also a great resource for therapists to use with their clients. I'm amazed at how many therapists join our groups for their own like personal work and also how many therapists are using our tools with their own clients. And the truly the biggest compliment to me and to the work we're doing at Calling Home is when my peers find the content valuable. So thank you all so much for that. And I really appreciate it. You can visit callinghome.com or click the link in show notes to join the Family Cycle Breakers Club. Those groups and the content will be coming out every Monday in the month of July. And if you join, you get access to the content on the website forever, which includes our entire content library

where we have over 50 different topics. I've shown you that search feature that you can use. So if there's certain things you're looking for, you can go on there and type in boundaries, mother or daughter issues, whatever it is. And you'll get access to that whole library with your membership as well as unlimited support groups with me and our two other licensed therapists. Also, I have to tell you all this because if you're watching this on video, you can see what I can see right now, recording myself to this level, like having the podcast be on video, trying to do a lot more video content as the world has changed. I have learned is one of the biggest ways to try to get over some of your insecurities or things that you're uncomfortable with because you're just like, I have to do it. and you have so much footage of yourself that you kind of start to tune it out. But today I have maybe the world's biggest pimple on my cheek that I've ever had.

So if you're watching this on video, you can see that. And I'm very sorry. But I do think that if you are someone that is struggling with like seeing yourself in photos and video, this is a really good desensitization and like exposure therapy practice that I use. to Google like how to make videos without showing my face, like when videos were starting out because it was so scary to me to like put myself out there and possibly have my appearance criticized or not like the way that I looked. And it's been such a hurdle for me, but it's something that I've wanted to do for my career. And I need to kind of like roll with the punches

and not let my insecurities get in the way of like where content is going. So if that's something that you're struggling with, I just want to call that out because it's something that I have struggled with as well. And even as I'm sitting here recording, I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm going to have this 45 minute video. But it's so, it's so not important in the grand scheme of things. But like we all think about this stuff. And I don't want to act like I'm so above it. And I'm not thinking about this stuff just because I'm a therapist or whatever it is because we all have these insecurities. So. If you're watching this on video, it's your lucky day. All right, let's go ahead and dive into the episode. My goal today is that we are going to talk about the hidden or often misunderstood emotional and psychological realities of growing up in a narcissistic family system. And I'm going to be talking about what a narcissistic family system is, the hidden roles, and what it feels like to be in one of these families.

And if you relate to what I'm talking about today in the episode, then you will definitely love the content that we're putting out in the Family Cycle Breakers Club this month because this is really just like scratching the surface. There has been a lot of press and information put out about narcissism. And I think most people think that narcissism is just about being like self-absorbed or vain. But when you grow up in a narcissistic family system, we're talking. talking about an entire system that often shapes everything about who you are and the experience in your family. A narcissistic family system is a system where the needs of typically one parent dominate the entire system and the child or the children and typically that person's partner, their co-parent, whoever else is in the family are expected to meet those needs. And in these families, we are going to see things that you see in a lot of dysfunctional families. So emotional neglect, enmeshment, being very emotionally rejecting, a lack of empathy.

And there will be a lot of specific roles assigned to different children that allow the system to keep functioning that way. And I like to always add this caveat that a lot of the time you didn't choose your role, but you are not destined to remaining in that role for life. And there's a worksheet that I just added to the website about assessing your role and understanding it and then trying to get out of it that I think is really helpful for any of you that are like, okay, I understand my role, but I want to stop performing it. And that's part of the Family Cycle Breakers Club membership. In these families, there is also a big push for. image over authenticity. So how the family looks, how they are perceived, what people think about them

and say about them are much more important than the members feeling like they are being their true authentic selves, right? So in some of these families, it's very important to dress and look a certain way, to follow a certain religion, to have specific political beliefs, to go to a certain school, choose a major, marry the right type of person. And if someone tries to go against that, there is often a lot of pressure, rejection, criticism, guilting, et cetera, to try to get them back in the family system. And I think it's often described as this feeling of like, this is the way we do things. And that is a law. It is not a suggestion. It's not something that people are necessarily consenting and willingly agreeing to, but they are feeling like they

have to do it in order to survive and stay in like the good graces of the system. And it can feel very scary to go against your family's wants and needs in those types of families. Another common feeling in narcissistic families is that it often feels like everything in the family is very distorted. You're not sure what is actually real or true because everything is being filtered through the lens of that narcissistic behavior or through the lens of how the enabler is perceiving it. So you might perceive that your narcissistic parent is very cruel and critical and induces guilt and shame. But then maybe your other parent is telling you like, They just have a hard day at work.

You need to be a little bit nicer to them. It's not actually that bad. And there's a lot of distorting of what feels authentic to you in order to maintain that image. And so a lot of people, when they are breaking out of these types of symptoms, excuse me, let me say that again, a lot of people when they are breaking out of these types of systems, they feel very disoriented and overwhelmed because it does. does not align, you know, with what they're feeling and what they've been told. So within narcissistic families, we are going to see a lot of different roles develop. And you've heard me talk about these roles in the past. But I think the two roles that are the most important in these types of families are the scapegoat and the enabler. So the scapegoat is a key role in a narcissistic family

system. And I think a lot of adults who are estranged from a parent are typically feeling like they have been scapegoated at least after the estrangement has happened or sometimes in the process or even throughout their childhood. There are some golden children that can be estranged from a parent and then they kind of move into that scapegoat role. But a lot of you listening to this probably know what it feels like to be ostracized. from your family blamed for the problems and made to feel like you are the one that is actually causing issues in the family, while also deeply knowing that there's something else going on. And this plays back into the distortion that we were just talking about.

So when you can see that you have a parent that is, again, very grandiose, demeaning, critical, overbearing, everything has to go their way. everyone's walking on eggshells around them, you see that. Yet you're being told that you are the problem that can distort your reality in a big way. The other thing that can happen here is the scapegoat can absolutely display things that are problematic and are disruptive to the family system. We are going to see that scapegoating often leads to mental health struggles like anxiety and depression in children and as they move into adulthood. And you're also going to see that growing up in a narcissistic family system can cause some of these issues.

And you might see adults who develop other mental health conditions that struggle with addiction, that have been traumatized, have PTSD. And those are going to lead to behaviors that make it much easier to scapegoat those children and blame them for being a problem. Because the way that they are communicating that they have a problem is disruptive to the, family. And this is how a lot of kids get scapegoated. The family system is deeply unfair. There's issues happening within it. It's high in conflict. There's a distortion of reality. So the child tries to communicate their discomfort within the family by behaving in destructive ways. Kids will try to get attention in so many different ways depending on their developmental age. And so most children do not have the ability, especially in these types of family systems, to sit down and say,

Mom and Dad, this is what's going on with me. I feel like Blank, and especially if they know that their feelings are going to be met with judgment, criticism, and denial and gaslighting, they're not going to do that even when they have the skill set, right? And so we might see that the person that is scapegoated is also behaving in ways that we would, you know, claim our, disordered or disruptive and this becomes like a self-fulfilling prophecy in a lot of ways. The enabler I mentioned also plays a very key role here and I mentioned that in like the distortion how the enabler can keep that going but in these narcissistic family systems someone has to be enabling and covering up for that behavior and a lot of times many family members are doing this in different ways. But there is typically one key person and a lot of times it's the other parent or the partner of that parent that is doing this because they are the other adults in the equation. And they are the one that is filtering the information coming from that

parent and giving it back to the children in a different way. So I explain that example of a parent saying like, well, you know, they're just tired. They love you even though they do this. And so there can be a lot of this rebranding of like what is happening in the family as being love, protection, um, loyalty through the voice of the enabler that allows the narcissist in that family to remain in power and to be the one setting the tone for the family and, and to not be questioned. Because now you've got one parent that is doing this behavior that clearly thinks it's okay and it's the right thing to do and they think that they should be in charge. And then you have your other parent.

validating that and co-signing on it. And you have to learn how to not trust yourself and the inner feelings that you have anymore. Later this month, I'm going to talk a little bit more about how different types of narcissism impact the family systems. Talking about grandiose narcissism versus vulnerable narcissism. So look out for more of that leader. But right now, we're just having a little bit more of a general conversation. Wendy's most important deal of the day has a fresh lineup. Pick any time. two breakfast items for $4. New four-piece French toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches,

small hot coffee, and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's taxes extra. And I want to talk about the parenting style of parents who have more narcissistic traits and how that can lead to negative outcomes in children. So it's not necessarily that the parent being a narcissist or having high levels of narcissistic traits is what makes the family system not function well. The style of parenting is really what is involved in creating a lot of the damage. So sometimes in narcissistic parents, you are going to see a lot of overprotection, this increased level of anxiety and need for control that fosters an unhealthy

level of like loyalty and commitment in the family and also creates a sense of dependency. So there is often a feeling of like you need me. I'm the only one that knows what's best for you. I get to decide what you do in life. There's also a lot of putting down of the other members and of children. So being critical, doubting them, telling them that they'll never achieve anything or that they're not going to be good at something. And this can create a lot of self-doubt and low self-worth in the members of the family. And you will find that when the narcissist has this very inflated but false sense of self and this big ego that sometimes for children, what they see in front of them is more of a confident, in charge, in power type of figure,

especially when we're talking about grandiose narcissism with vulnerable narcissism or covert narcissism, it's a little bit different. But if you have a parental figure like that that is maybe well regarded in the community is successful, seems like everything just comes easy to them, even though their sense of self and their abilities are actually very fragile, it's hard for you to see that. And then their ability to consistently put you down and make you feel small, often makes you feel more reliant on them and attached to them in those ways, much in the same way that you see in couples where there is one partner abusing the other and they sort of whittle away at their self-esteem over time to make them become more dependent

on them. There's also a lot of emotional control in these families and there is a culture of anxiety, perfectionism, fear of failure, always trying to live up to the expectations of that family, often because you fear being ostracized or kicked out of the family if something were to happen, right? If you were to not live up to those standards. There has also been some studies that overvaluation, so having excessive praise without effort, So telling a child that they are better than other people, that they don't have to try and things will just come to them, not allowing them to learn anything about failure or making mistakes, telling them that they are better than other people just because of who they are can lead to grandiose narcissism in kids. And then we'll also see that with vulnerable narcissism, there's often this outcome of entitlement with no coping skills. And this happens sometimes in the narcissistic family systems where the parent believes that.

They believe that as a result of that being their child, their child is a reflection of them. They are the best child ever. They are good at everything. Anyone that tells them no or gives any pushback to them is wrong. They might do this with the child's friends, teachers, coaches. Everyone is like an enemy of the family that is out to get them and is standing in their way. When in reality, sometimes that child is not doing the right thing, needs to work harder, didn't get a good grade, needs to practice more, whatever it is.

And so within these families, there's often not this healthy instruction of learning about coping skills, learning how to deal with rejection and just working at certain goals and understanding that you can't be good at everything or successful at everything and that when that happens, sometimes it is partially or all of our fault. And this is something that kids have to learn in order to take responsibility for their own lives. Let's talk a little bit more about how it feels inside of these narcissistic family systems. There was a study done by Alpe and Aden in 2024 about kids of narcissistic mothers and how they often developed intense self-criticism that led to anxiety and depression. And a lot of these adults internalize this belief of like, I'm bad, I'm broken, I'm too much. And we talked about this a little bit earlier in the episode, but that your reality is consistently denied within these families. So emotional gaslighting leads you to a more confused sense of self.

And this means that you're probably going to struggle to trust yourself or others and have difficulty setting boundaries. You need a lot of external validation and you have emotional dysregulation. And a lot of this happens because of the interplay of all those roles in the family and everyone circling around that one person to make sure that they do not get upset. their comfort is not disrupted because you know that things are going to be so much worse for you if that happens. We also know that when we're talking again about mother-daughter relationships, that where the mother is a narcissist, that vulnerable narcissism predicts child maladjustment,

not just because of the parenting style, but because these mothers often perceive their child as difficult. So then that child internalizes the shame and rejection. And this is why a lot of kids will feel that were raised in these environments will feel like they're impossible to love or too much. Now, if you grew up in one of these families, you might be wondering, and I hear this a lot of, like, can I become a narcissist too if there was a narcissist in my family? Or maybe you have a sibling that shows narcissistic traits or your parent has accused you of being narcissistic. And we know that narcissistic parenting can lead to narcissistic traits in kids. And when there is warmth in the sense of like you are better than everyone, you are good at

everything, no one can tell you anything otherwise, and low parental monitoring, so very permissive parenting, we can see kids develop grandiosity and some of those traits that we associate with grandiose narcissism. And there's also then parents who do a lot of like helicopter parenting over observing their children and overvaluating them. So they're not low monitoring. It's like over monitoring with that same overvaluation that we see through that parental warmth that is being defined as everything you do is amazing. You can do no wrong and not making the child be accountable. This can lead to a fragile self-image and entitlement for that child. And when I use the word entitlement, I'm not using it in the way that I think it's being used a lot. I'm using it in the

sense that this child feels that they are entitled to everything and everyone, that the world completely revolves around them. They're not asking for accountability. We're talking about a grandiose sense of ownership over life and over what is given to them. But I do want to say that, of course, not all kids of narcissists or not all kids in narcissistic family systems become narcissists, but some do, especially when they have learned that that's how one can get power in the world and within their family. And sometimes that seems so much better of a pursuit than maybe being one of the people that is being victimized within that family. And of course, there's also a genetic component to this as well.

Now that we talked a little bit about what these families look like and feel like, I want to discuss what recovering from this dynamic and stepping out of this might look like. And I'm going to do kind of just like an overview of this that's brief. But if you want to do more of this work, that's what we will be doing in the Family Cyclebriggers Club and in our groups this month. The first thing you need to do is develop awareness. So naming what happened, being honest about it, and validating your experience. Now, for those of you that have been conditioned to believe that you can't trust yourself and that you don't know what happened in your family, this is going to be hard. And I put some scripts up on the calling home

website yesterday for members about how to do this and what it sounds like to really name this and call it out. So if you're struggling with that, I think that will be helpful for you. Then boundaries are important, learning to say no, how to separate yourself from what other people want from you and think of you. I think one of the biggest things that people who grow up in narcissistic family systems have to work on is how they feel about themselves and developing a sense of self and a value, an internal value, that exists without your performance. A lot of members of narcissistic family systems feel like I am loved if I perform, right? I think also this is where you have to grieve the loss of the fantasy of this parent.

Unfortunately, a lot of people with narcissistic personality disorder or a lot of narcissistic traits are not very likely to go to therapy or to get some type of help for this. It doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, but it's less likely than with other types of conditions. And so sometimes you have to make room for the reality of what your family is. And I find actually that a lot of people struggle more with accepting and understanding their parent that was doing. the enabling. And even though that parent might have seemed like the nicer, more engaged one, and they were not as scary or overwhelming as your narcissistic parent, realizing that they still had some role in it, whether that was intentional or not, can be very, very challenging. And that's where I see a lot of people struggling. And we're going to talk more about that, especially with our

group discussion questions this month. This is also where it's so. important to find some support. So going to therapy, joining groups like our groups at calling home, reading books about this. We do book recommendations every month. And finding community is so, so helpful. So after listening to this episode, I think it's important to ask yourself, if you want to do like a gut check on how much you experienced this, how accurate it is for you, you can ask yourself, like, were my needs dismissed chronically and routinely in my family? Did I feel like a burden for even existing? Was there one person in the family that we had to rally around and make sure that they

were always comfortable and getting what they needed and we would sacrifice ourselves for that? And this person is an adult in the family. And then thinking about what did my family do or endure to make sure that that person always was comfortable and was getting what they needed? How would they act whenever their needs were not being met fully? And then are you still carrying some of those beliefs that you're too much, too needy, or not enough? If you relate to this, I would love to see you this month inside the Family Cycle Breakers Club at Calling Home. You can join at callinghome.com or click the link in the show notes.

We will have a bunch more episodes about this this month. I also have an episode about narcissism with Dr. Romney on the podcast from last year. So you can definitely check that out. That's an amazing resource. And she has the book called It's Not You. that is super helpful for anyone in dealing with narcissism within their families. And we'll talk more about that book this month as well. Thank you so much for listening. Please don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, leave a comment on Spotify and YouTube. I always respond to those Spotify comments and I love reading them every week.

And thank you so much for listening. I'll see you on Thursday. The Calling Home Podcast is not engaged in providing therapy services, mental health advice, or other medical advice or services. It is not a substitute for advice from a qualified health care provider and does not create any therapist, patient, or other treatment relationship between you and Colin Calm or Whitney Goodman. For more information on this, please see Calling Holmes Terms of Service linked in the show notes below. Thank you.