CALLING HOME with Whitney Goodman, LMFT - Q&A: Self-Diagnosis and Toxic Grandparents

Episode Date: July 10, 2025

In this Q&A episode, Whitney explores the complexities of self-diagnosis, particularly around autism and neurodivergence, discussing when it can be helpful versus harmful and how to pursue formal diagnosis responsibly. She also addresses a caller's struggle with a narcissistic mother-in-law and provides practical advice for protecting children while navigating a spouse who isn't ready to set boundaries with their difficult parent. Whitney Goodman is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT) and the founder of Calling Home, a membership community that helps people navigate complex family dynamics and break harmful cycles. Have a question for Whitney? Call in and leave a voicemail for the show at [phone]⁠⁠ Join the Family Cyclebreakers Club⁠⁠ Follow Whitney on Instagram | sitwithwhit Follow Whitney on YouTube | @whitneygoodmanlmft ⁠⁠Order Whitney’s book, Toxic Positivity⁠⁠ This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Conjuring Last Rites On September 5th I come down here, we need you out of you! Array! Hooray! Hooray! Array! Array!

The Conjuring, last rights, only in theater September 5th. Hey, everyone and welcome back to the calling on podcast. I'm your host, Whitney Goodman. I'm excited to be back today for a Q&A episode. But first, we're going to get started with the little epiphany segment where I talk about things I've seen this week, some reminders about calling home and stuff we talked about in our groups that I want you to know. So we had a really amazing estranged little child group this week on Monday that I facilitated. And there were, I think, around 30 people there, which is amazing. and we had so many people sharing and it was just like the best group and the best feeling because so many people were writing in the chat and saying like this group has had such an impact on my life. I'm so grateful that I have this group this week. And there were a lot of people that were going through really similar things. And some of the discussion questions that I brought to the group were about if you feel that you were accepted and supported by your parent. And what I'm finding is very consistent across adults who are strange from their parents is that

they say no to these questions. Did you feel accepted by your parent? Do you feel accepted by your parent today? And do you feel supported by your parent or did you feel supported by them in childhood? And so I wanted to talk about this more in the group. And something that we really found to be consistent across so many members of this support group was this feeling that everything in their family was about performance for other people and doing what quote unquote like looked good. So it was really fascinating how many people brought up the need to dress a certain way in their families and that their parents were so concerned with what they were wearing, where their clothes were from, who purchased the clothes like them being in control of all

that was really important and some of this even exceeded, some of those even continued into adulthood. And I found that so interesting that this was just like a universal experience throughout a lot of different types of dysfunctional families, you know, some that had more emotional immaturity, some that were more heavy in like narcissistic traits, some children who experienced a lot of childhood trauma or abuse, but they had this shared experience. of like outside perception of the family being much more important than how members in the family actually felt. And this is something that I think is really common in narcissistic family systems. And so we're going to be talking about that a lot more in the content this month. I had

an episode come out on Tuesday all about like how narcissistic families function. So if you're curious, if your family is that way or if it's that criteria, that's a good episode to listen to. that's also what we will be covering this month at calling home and that narcissistic family systems group started yesterday on Wednesday and those are going to be happening every Wednesday for the month of July. And so I definitely want to continue talking about that desire to make everything look good to the outside. And if that's something you want to hear more about on the show, send me a message, email, leave a comment on this episode and let me know because I'll definitely put together an entire episode about that. But something to think about like, what was

that like in your family? The next thing I wanted to mention, I put this in my email on Monday, is that I have been watching The Bear. It's the fourth season of the show. And I'm only about halfway through, but this season is really focused on those adult family relationships and the dysfunction and a lot about their mother, Karmie, who owns the restaurant, who's the main chef, his role with his mother, and you can see some of his anxiety manifesting when he sees her, you can see that she is trying to change and be different, but everyone is a little bit weary of this. And I think it's just if you can stomach it, and if you are looking for a show that depicts a lot of the stuff that we talk about on this podcast, I would definitely go and

watch that because I think it's super interesting and they've done a really great job of illustrating those dynamics and I'm going to record some videos on that for social media as well. And then the last thing I wanted to mention was I watched the season finale of the or sorry, the reunion of the Secret Lives and Mormon wives and one of the husbands talks about his experience with sexual assaults as a child. And I thought it was so incredible to see a man who is involved in a deeply religious community coming out on national television and talking about this so openly and being honest about the impact that it's had on him, what he experienced and the things that he was working through. And I just think that that is such a testament to a lot of the work that has been done. over the last decade to make child abuse survivors feel more comfortable about speaking out

and knowing that they will be validated and heard and listened to at least by some of the community. And I can only imagine how difficult that is to do in certain circles. And so I thought that was just an incredible testament, you know, to the work that's being done publicly. child abuse survivors. As a reminder, you can always join the Family Cycle Breakers Club at callinghome.co and join our groups and get that content about narcissistic family systems every Monday this month. All right, we're going to have two caller questions today. I will play the voicemails. I listen to them live for the first time. So this is my first reaction to them. And then I will give you my response. Let's go ahead and play that first voicemail.

Hi, Whitney. My name's Amanda. I just listened to your latest episode on Therapy Speak, and it made me wonder what your take is on people's self-identifying as autistic or neurodivirgent of some sort. The reason I asked is because I've suspected for the past year or so that I may be a high-masking, low-support age autistic. I know this is a loaded topic, and this question has a lot of layers. I was hoping you could speak on any intersectionality you may have seen between neurodivergence and trauma. So for instance, if I have frequent meltdowns or shutdowns, how do I tell is that PTSD from trauma or a potential autistic system? Or if I always had trouble making friends growing up and struggle with these social situations without a script? How do I know if that's an

autistic trait or maybe just the result of a childhood that was to sheltered and controlled? and also do you see any benefit in people who have been formally diagnosed sharing their experiences and trying to raise awareness for others, or do you think it may perpetuates more harm and people misunderstanding? And lastly, do you have any recommendations for resources for someone to pursue a formal diagnosis if they suspect they may be autistic or ADHD? And if you're wondering how I got through all of this message as a potential artistic, it's because I wrote it all down. But I love your show.

I appreciate everything you hear and hope to potentially hear and answer on the podcast. Thanks so much. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you listening and calling in. I want to say that to qualify this with I am not an expert on neurodivergence or autism. That is not my specialty, but I can speak to just like the larger therapy culture, online especially, self-diagnosis, and give you a couple of things to explore here. So I think the first question that you asked was about self-diagnosis. Do I think that it is a problem?

Is there value in it? Could there be pitfalls with that? And I have a very therapy. therapist answer, that it depends. I think that a lot of people today are discovering things about themselves and their past, they're present, their symptoms, how they react to the world through the internet. And the problem is, is that sometimes when we read things, they make sense, they apply to us, but they could just be like a piece of the puzzle. And so it's hard to know if something was caused by childhood trauma, for instance. It's hard to know if it is something that you were born with and has always been consistent for you or was something that you were sort of like genetically loaded for that has been manifested later in life

because of your experiences. For some people, I find that getting to that sort of understanding of why things are the way they are is very powerful for them. And they want to know, know how A plus B equals C. And for other people, it's more of this thing of like, my day-to-day life is so difficult. I'm struggling with a lot of issues. I feel like I can't function in the world. And so that's why I'm seeking some type of diagnosis or a way to label this so that I can understand it. And I think that that can be very powerful to people. We know that when we put a name to something and we feel like it is something that we can understand, it's real, it's legitimate, other people have experienced it, then that makes us feel better. And I understand why that

would make you feel better. It would make me feel better. And so I think if you say, like, I have been consistently struggling in these areas of my life, I notice that some of this stuff seems to make sense for me. Then I don't think there's anything wrong. with using that as a way to access resources to help yourself to potentially seek some type of treatment. And I think that's where this is important here, right? If we are talking about someone who has autism, the treatment might be one thing. If we're talking about someone that has complex PTSD, the treatment might be this. If there is a combination of those two things, then you're looking at a different approach. And so that's why I think it's important.

to really work with someone that has a very nuanced and deep understanding about not only neurodivergence or some of these types of diagnoses, but also trauma, family history, the way that your biology and your life circumstances can interact. All of that can be very important. What I find can be kind of problematic with self-diagnosis is when it only comes in the form of like, this is what's wrong with me. I have this label. Now I am this label and I don't take it any further than that. It's not being utilized to help me in any way. It's just like a label that I'm putting on myself for no other reason, but to give myself this label. And we just talked about how that can be affirming and it can be helpful and it can make you feel like,

oh, I'm not crazy. This is a thing. But I think in order for it to have like real, transformative powers in your life that often requires you going past just that labeling stage to either find tools, resources, community, whatever it is that can help you manage the ways that that has been showing up in your life. I think if you're going to pursue a formal diagnosis, it's important to find a psychologist or a neuropsychologist. Or a neuropsychologist. someone that does testing for these specific types of diagnoses and again, someone that has a nuanced understanding of neurodivergence, trauma, et cetera. I think, unfortunately, I have seen a lot of predatory digital startups forming to help people get these diagnoses because they know

that there is so much information seeking going on about that on the internet. particularly on social media, and they're taking advantage of that. And so I think it's very important to find someone that is reputable and trustworthy and not someone that just like popped up a business five minutes ago because they saw that there was like opportunity in this area. You can use your insurance company. You can get referrals from friends or other medical professionals. You can, of course, use Google in your area.

you can go on social media and look up some of these people and find someone that you feel like has the background to do an accurate and thorough battery of assessments. And then I think it's worth asking yourself, like, what would a diagnosis mean to me? How would it help me? What would it do for my life to know that I had this? What would it feel like if I went to this person and I got a diagnosis? what would it feel like if I went to them and I didn't get a diagnosis and I am a clinician that really doesn't do a lot of diagnosing because I particularly work with like family issues

systemic family issues I'm not working in a realm where I typically need to diagnose so I think that it's definitely worth speaking to someone where that is like their bread and butter and that is what they do I hope that that's helpful for you I think think also on the nuance needed podcasts, which they've been on my show. I've been on theirs. They did an episode on self-diagnosing. That was very good. So I would definitely check that out as well. Thank you so much for calling in. And I appreciate your question. All right. Let's go ahead and get to that second caller. I'm going to play their voicemail now. Hi, Whitney. I wanted to call in because your last episode really resonated with me. And I wanted

kind of your advice on how to navigate a difficult situation with my narcissistic mother-in-law. She and I have never really had a good relationship, and it's gotten a lot worse since I had our first child. In addition to her being a covert narcissist, he is extremely emotionally immature. Essentially, she sees my husband as a surrogate spouse since he and my father-in-law divorced about 25 years ago. She has tried to interfere with how my husband and I parent our son, who is now two years old, she made it known that he didn't support my husband and I when we decided to get married eight years ago.

And she actually showed up at the hospital uninvited, unannounced, when our son was gone, even though we told them that we weren't having any visitors. When we've established boundaries, it's always treated as an attack on. her and she'll try to imply that I'm controlling my husband. So my question for you is more centered around my husband rather than my mother-in-law, but he's not really understanding that she's very damaging and difficult to be around. I've noticed that we always fight after we leave their house. It's always an argument. Whereas if we take a lot of time and space away from them, our marriage improves.

And I've expressed to him that I don't want her son to be around her because she's very negative and I know that she said toxic things about me behind my back. And for me I feel strongly about keeping our child away from somebody like that because I

feel like if you can't respect me as a mom, then you don't really have any business being around my child and having a relationship with them. And my husband will respond to me and say, well, I'll just take my son over there to see her and you don't have to come, which to me is even worse because he hasn't been able to establish clear boundaries with her. And he is, unfortunately, a people-pleaser.

So I'm scared that he'll try to take my son over there without me, especially once the holidays come around. And right now I'm currently pregnant with our second baby, and I have actually had panic attacks in the past before going over there because of how she is. how unwelcome I always feel. So I guess my question to you is, do you have any advice for me on how to navigate that relationship with her, but also how to explain to my husband that I just am not comfortable with my son being away from me at her house or anywhere near her specifically. Thank you so much. I love your podcast. Thank you so much. I can tell that this is

a really difficult situation. And it's so hard to be pregnant and to be thinking about this stuff. And I can hear in your voice, I think that you just are worried about your children and wanting to protect them. And it sounds like, unfortunately, your husband is a little bit afraid of disappointing his mother, not doing what he's always done, which is maybe some. side with her, support her, do what is pleasing to her because otherwise he might experience some negative consequences to that. And so I think that when someone is in this position where they're not ready to make a change, they're not ready to kind of like put their foot down and set a boundary with this person, it's likely because they are not ready to feel the things

that are going to come up when they do that or experience the consequences. I would imagine that your husband has had moments like this with his mother throughout his life where he has learned that if he does something that she doesn't want or tries to set a boundary with her, whatever it is, he has experienced negative consequences from that. And he may not be totally aware of that. And that's kind of some of the problem here that I like to go back to like what can you control? Okay. And it sounds like your husband doesn't fully comprehend the fact that your children being around this person is something that you don't believe is healthy or good, right? And he may never see that. And so this might be sort of an impasse between the two of you, that he wants her to be

around the kids and you don't. And this is where I think I go into sort of, like harm reduction safety mode and as a mother myself I'm thinking like well then I need to be there when my kids are with this person because even if it's uncomfortable for me I need to protect them and make sure that they're okay and unfortunately I think in a lot of these situations it takes something really bad happening for the other person to often like totally realize what's going on. And I think you want to make sure that it doesn't get to that point where something really does happen that is not good for your children, not good for your family. And so you being there as a buffer might be helpful. There's also different rules that can

be instated, right? Like maybe they are only doing certain types of things together. Maybe it's only under certain circumstances, you know, in ways that you can help this be more palatable and safe. I think also approaching your spouse from the perspective of like, I know that we both want the best things for our kids and for our family. And I know how hard it is for you to have to realize and accept that maybe your mom isn't a good influence on our children or isn't a safe person for them to be around, whatever it is. And sometimes leading with that intention of like, I know that you're a good dad. I know that you want the best for our kids. I know that you're trying to do the right thing. Rather than like you're crazy, how do you not see this can be helpful.

This might be one of those situations too where you need to get some type of mediator to help, whether that's a therapist or another family member, someone that can help. you to work through this because I think this might be one of those. We both compromise and we both kind of feel like we're losing a little bit situations. And also at the heart of this is the two of you agreeing to focus on what is best for the kids, what's safest for them, what's most reasonable. And if you get to a point where you really feel like this is a safety issue and it's really not okay for your kids to be around this person, then that's also something you have to think about and we have to put our foot down. Sometimes in those situations to protect children who

cannot protect themselves, even against their own family. And I think sometimes that's what a lot of family members are not willing to do. And so you see kids get hurt or abused within family systems because the adults were not willing to have those uncomfortable situations or conversations. So, I don't know the specifics of your family. I don't know how far this is gone or even, you know, the ages of your children and all of that, that I think it's something you have to look at and be like, okay, where are we at in this? What is the level of threat? What does my husband see? What does he not see? How much protection do I need to provide? What could really go wrong here? What is my kids' understanding of all of this, if they have any, if they're at the age, being able to

do that. I also think for you there's, there might be a level of anxiety about bringing another child into this world and having to deal with this again or on an even deeper level. And that is very understandable why that would be stressing you out. And so also working on that anxiety for yourself might be very helpful. I hope that this helped. Thank you for calling in on our website at calling home.co, we have some different topics that I think could be really helpful for anyone going through this. I do have a grandparents topic section. If you go onto the website and just type grandparents into the search bar, it will bring up tons of resources for adults who are dealing with grandparents that are abusive, invasive, not helpful, whatever it is,

violating boundaries. There's also some resources for grandparents. parents there. And then there's also an in-law sections. If you type in in-laws, that will all show up. And I have a lot of resources, scripts, guides, et cetera, to help you have these difficult conversations about your in-laws with your partner. And you get access to all of that when you join the Family Cycle Breakers Club at Calling Home. Thank you so much for calling, for listening. I really appreciate all of you. if you would like to, you can leave a review, comment on this episode, share it with a friend, subscribe. All of that is so helpful and allows us to continue keeping this podcast free and accessible and helps our whole team that make this podcast possible. Keep going. So thank you

very, very much. I really appreciate all of you. And I will see you again on Tuesday. Bye. The Calling Home podcast is not engaged in providing therapy services, mental health advice, or other medical advice or services. It is not a substitute for advice from a qualified health care provider and does not create any therapist, patient, or other treatment relationship between you and Collin' home or Whitney Goodman. For more information on this, please see Collingholm's terms of service linked in the show notes below. Thank you.