CALLING HOME with Whitney Goodman, LMFT - Raising Conscious Sons and Daughters with Dr. Shefali Tsabary

Episode Date: September 29, 2026

Content warning: This episode contains descriptions of domestic violence, violence against women, and past abuse.Whitney talks with Dr. Shefali Tsabary, author of the twin books Raising Conscious Sons and Raising Conscious Daughters, about what boys and girls each need to thrive right now in our current society. The through-line: you can't hand your child a self you haven't worked on, and it is never too late to start.Connect with Dr. Shefali Tsabary Website: https://www.drshefali.com/Raising Conscious Sons: www.drshefali.com/raisingconscious-daughters-sons/Raising Conscious Daughters: www.drshefali.com/raisingconscious-daughters-sons/Whitney Goodman is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT) and the founder of Calling Home, a membership community that helps people navigate complex family dynamics and break harmful cycles.Have a question for Whitney? Send a voice memo or email to [e-mail] the Family Cyclebreakers Club: https://callinghome.coFollow Whitney on Instagram | sitwithwhitFollow Whitney on YouTube | @whitneygoodmanlmftOrder Whitney's book, Toxic Positivity: https://sitwithwhit.com/toxic-positivitySign up for updates on Whitney's new book: https://cmnyyv4kpyt.typeform.com/to/PHMzjy0oThis podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome back to the Calling Home Podcast. I am your host, Whitney Goodman. Today I have an exciting interview. Dr. Sheffali is on the Calling Home podcast and she's here to talk about her two new books out. Yes, she wrote two books at the same time, which is really crazy, but she divided them up. So we have raising conscious sons cultivating purpose, connection, and inner power in a chaotic world, and raising conscious daughters, building confidence, courage, and inner power in an anxious world. I'm so excited to bring her on the show today because we talk about conscious parenting, which I love, what boys need at different stages and what girls need to thrive. We also talk about how parenting has changed, what we need to do differently and more. So let's welcome

Dr. Sheffali to the Calling On podcast. I was very impressed and surprised to see that you had written not one but two books on the topic. And I'd love to know why you decided to split these books up into one for boys and one for girls. Yeah, so this is the one for girls. It's called Raising Conscious Daughters. This is the boys, raising conscious sons. It was an ambitious project, and I really had to battle with it because it doesn't make good publishing sense to write to books,

and no one does it. But the reason I wanted to do it, I think, is because I felt that boys and girls are so different, and they need to be treated differently with different understandings of their hormonal temperament, the development of timeline. And the algorithm is treating them differently. So whether we like to be progressive and not see them as different, the algorithm understands

their brain chemistry far deeper than we do and gets them in ways that we cannot anticipate and then we cannot help them. And I then thought to put them both in one book, but then it would be so thick a book and parents get scared of reading these days. There's not enough time. So I decided to do both books, but I insisted that they come out together. so that I could talk about them together because they both are kind of on a continuum. At the end of the day, what happens to our daughters, happens to our sons on some level.

So it's about children in general. But I really encourage parents, even if they only have a daughter, to read the son's book. I mean, I learned so much about men. I only have a daughter, but I learned so much through my research. And I think it's fascinating if you're married to a man to understand his inner chemistry and what could have happened to him as a little boy, boy. And anyway, if your daughter stays straight or is straight, plans to be straight, as in heterosexual, then she will be with a boy, so she needs to learn. So it's just good to know the neurochemistry of both, but I don't mean to be reductive. I don't mean to, you know, not be aligned with gender fluidity and anyone who is struggling to discover their identity.

I'm very sensitive to that, and I'm very open to all children. Yeah, I see why you made that decision. And I think that you're right that there are certain things, whether we want to admit it or not, culturally, societally, that are affecting young girls and young boys in different ways. And the fact that many parents are raising both daughters and sons. And you're right that our daughters are going to interact with our sons in the home and also with other people's children, you know, outside of the home. I have two sons and a daughter. And a daughter. And you're right. And you're right. And And so I think in this moment, I'm feeling particularly concerned about raising my sons even more than my daughter. And I'm wondering if that's something you're feeling from other parents as well. I can tell you, I wrote these two books because I was worried about our boys. And it doesn't mean I'm not worried about our girls, but girls kind of talk about things and they express things and the mothers are talking and we're talking, talking, talking, so at least there's some language being shared. but because boys are not inherently talkers, they're inherently more physical, their needs kind of get masked and disguised in aggression or sexuality,

and then they get into trouble, then they're seen as just ADHD or defiant or so angry. They get labeled, they get shamed, and they don't have a conscious blueprint for a masculinity that feels viable. You know, on one hand, the manist is telling them to be all this exaggerated caricature or what it means to be a man, and then they're told to be sensitive. and empathic and be vulnerable and share their feelings, but they can't really do that either. So boys are caught between these two extremes of extreme masculinity, false masculinity, toxic masculinity, and then trying to be like their sister, they can't really do that.

And then they're seeing that the toxic patriarchy has messed it all up, but they don't feel like they're part of that. They feel kind of suppressed as well. So I feel that the poor young man is really lost. And now more than ever because of video games and escapism and loneliness and isolation, they are more at risk for not getting the emotional support that they need. So that's why this book Raising Conscious Sons is a must read for anyone who has a son. And then I give really elegant, simple, profound, deep strategies that you can start

implementing right now to help your son. What do you think our sons are getting from this Manosphere content? Like what is attracting them to it that they're not getting elsewhere? They're getting a place to put their frustrations, which is on the woman. The man is saying them that, you see, after the Me Too movement, the pendulum swung so much that women are coming out on top now. We are like crushing it. But the men are feeling left behind. They're feeling displaced.

And this doesn't mean that they shouldn't do better for themselves. But it is a fact that now they are being left back and they are feeling unresourceful. And the man is speaking directly to that lost boy, saying the reason you are under-resourced is because the females are taking over. So they're giving a place to put all their frustration, all their upsetness, which is so nice, right? Don't we all like a place to put our frustrations? So it's giving direction. Then it's telling them, go to the gym for six hours a day, eat so much protein, go buy a fancy car, move to Miami. Just, you know, not blaming Miami, but move to a fancy city.

kill it. And so it's giving them purpose. It's giving them fire. And it's telling them that the goal at the end of the rainbow is a hot woman or few hot women. So they now are channeling all that frustration. They look very purposeful. They look like they're working hard. But what they don't realize is that it's a setup because they are being told that their happiness, their worth, their purpose is on the outside. Yeah. And that there's always somebody else to blame, I think, for the way that you're feeling. It's so interesting because I definitely was, you know, I think when you fall into, how do I want to say this, when you feel like you can relate to sort of the feminist lens of like, oh my gosh, men have been causing pain to women for a long time, right? And we're sort of experiencing

this uprising in the wake of the Me Too movement. And then you have sons. And I know after my sons were born, I was like, oh my gosh, but now I can't just be upset about this. I have. have to learn how to raise men that are going to be good men among other people's daughters and things like that. So when you talk about conscious parenting, what are you hoping that parents of young boys are teaching their son? Yes. So the reason that they're going to the man sphere ultimately is because they feel really bad about themselves and they want to feel better. But they're being told, just like women were told, if you look better, you will feel better. If you please your man, you will do better.

So they're being told a different kind of message. Become richer, become more powerful, and get a lot of women, you're going to feel better. Get a lot of muscles, you're going to feel better. They're also being lied to. And what we need to do as parents is have compassion. Understand that our sons feel as much as our girls. They need connection. They need your presence.

They need your intervention. They need you there to guide them through. And if you think that they're going to figure it out on their own, you're wrong. So they need other men. They need a tribe. They need a brotherhood. I literally have the key ingredients. Let me tell you the key ingredients that boys need.

First and foremost, they need to be understood as deeply feeling beings. They're in fact more feeling perhaps, more fragile because their inner architecture is developing slower and later. Number two, they need a lot of movement. So they feel their emotions through their motion, not through verbalization. Their left brain, their talking side, and their right brain, their feeling side are not connected as much as girls. So they don't know how to talk about their feelings. They show their feelings.

They need to move, move, move, move, move, and more move and more move. Therefore, the school system is not designed for them. Therefore, when they come home and they're in trouble at school, school, it's because they didn't move enough. They should not be sitting down at all. They should walk and learn tables. They should run and do math. They should only be expressing themselves through their body.

That's how much testosterone they have. That's how much movement they need. Number four, they need to be told that their fire and their anger doesn't and that intensity doesn't mean danger and aggression. They need a safe space to vent it. They need to be told that this is powerful. Go outside. This is powerful.

throw a pillow. Don't shame them for their anger because when you shame it, you suppress it, it will become aggression, data, and violence. Number five, when your son grows into puberty and adolescence, he is emerging into a powder keg, a rocket ship of testosterone, and he doesn't know how to deal with it. He needs now not to be initiated anymore by his mother. His mother needs to step back. And she needs to recruit the tribe of male elders, brothers, cousins, uncles, elders from this culture, fathers, you know, wonderful thing that would be, to step in and initiate the boy through rights of passage of physical test and understanding and integration into the conscious masculinity and manhood. A woman cannot do it. A woman cannot talk to him about his sexuality,

his aggression, his horniness, his thoughts. A man needs to do it, a conscious man. And he needs the brotherhood. He needs a tribe. And then he needs purpose. He needs to contribute. He needs to feel like he is valued. He needs to know that he's needed to fix the light bulb, to go and mow the lawn. I know this sounds so stereotypical, but that testosterone needs a place to go. Just like estrogen needs to talk and connect

and tend and befriend, testosterone needs a place to channel, to find purpose, to find competence, to find use. And when you give a boy purpose man, he is focused. He is focused. But a purposeless boy is an addict, is an addict to the video games.

I feel like a lot of men today, young men, especially young boys, feel like they don't have a purpose, especially when they're looking at, oh, look at what women are doing, or I feel like they don't need me in order to have what they have. And that doesn't feel good, obviously, when they're kind of directionless. When you're talking about recruiting the village and the elders,

a lot of the people that listen to this show are really the first in their family to, break a dysfunctional pattern or they might be estranged from a family member. If they don't have a lot of good role models in their own family system, how do you recommend they recruit those conscious community members? I know. It's so hard. I would say, you know, just for the sake of that, I would join a boys and girls club, big brothers and sisters, go to the church, go to the synagogue. You've got to do it. I'm telling you, single mothers raising teenage boys is not a good combo. need male brotherhood tribe around you to help you because your son needs that kind of physical

male presence to look up to, to feel contained. He doesn't recognize his mother anymore. He realizes, man, she is very different for me. You know, when he was small, he could kind of be cuddly and sweet with her. But as he's growing into this big strapping boy, he needs a big strapping adult. And I don't mean this in terms of actual height or actual way, just the energy. to contain his rising testosterone because it's very intimidating for most mothers to even see this. It just brings up a lot of feelings in her. She doesn't want to look at it. She doesn't want to touch it.

It's not her place to raise that anymore. Yeah, I wonder if even some mothers, like especially single mothers who are raising boys alone, can start to feel even afraid of their son's anger or the power that they have in their responding to that in their own way that isn't helpful for their sons. Exactly. You know, every woman I know has had some perpetration at the hands of an unconscious man, their boss, the ex, the brother, the father. I mean, I don't know a single woman who hasn't experienced some sort of violence or sexual violence. Same. Yeah. Right? Something. So imagine we, and you know how we all live. We live with danger. You know, we feel unsafe. There's never,

a time I say, oh, it's 11 o'clock at night, let me go for a walk. It just will never happen. Never happen. So, I mean, in an uninhabited place, maybe a busy city, I could, but I'd be scared. So we live like that, right? So somewhere unconsciously is an archetype of danger, danger, danger, when we see big or big energy, you know, male energy. So that naturally gets transferred and projected onto our sons when they have big energy. And we think to ourselves, I'm not going to let you hurt me. You won't be one more man who hurts me. I'm not going to raise you as an abuser. You better not be an asshole. Right? It's very low, perhaps, but it's there. And of course, our boys are going to pick up on it. And they're thinking to themselves, I'm not a mean

person. I'm not a bad person. I want to be loved. I want to be understood. I want to be cared for. But we women have so much vitriol and so much reactivity to that. Yeah, totally. I've even found that in myself that I have this level of anxiety of like, oh, I'm going to make sure that you treat women well, that you're respectful, you do this in any sign that appears like, and my kids are very young, like leading into that. It's like, oh, no, I need to extinguish this. And I could see how if you were a woman, especially who had dealt with domestic violence, things like that, you are going to be on edge, especially as your son gets bigger and has more of that presence. Right. The more this past abuse in the mother's background, that growing boy is going to perhaps ignite that and

trigger her. Therefore, she needs to really process that so she doesn't, you know, project that on him because then he's going to feel bad, then he's going to feel ashamed, he's going to wonder why. It just continues the cycle. Instead, we need to celebrate him. We need to celebrate his bigness, not make him feel scared of his intensity. Intensity is part of testosterone. It is part of that drive, it is part of what gives them energy. And they have a different energy than us. It's not comparable. It's just not comparable. What do you think we are doing that makes boys feel like they're not allowed to show their feelings or they're not allowed to show certain feelings? You know, it's weird because on one hand, we want them to be vulnerable and soft and caring and

empathic. But then we kind of get turned off when they're too much of that. Or we decide there's too much. But where is that line? Right? We have also, I think, some internalized misogyny against women ourselves because we don't let them be anything like us, but we want them to be like us. It's so confusing for them. We want them to initiate, but we don't want them to initiate.

We want them to be strong, but we don't want them to be dominant. You know, we have a constant stream of contradictions ourselves. And that's why I really break it down in this book, raising conscious sons. I've grappled with it in the book. I've asked important questions. raised awareness so that parents really go, before I open my mouth and say, oh, be vulnerable, let me see if I really mean it. And I've really given parents a pathway to screw up less.

And they're still going to screw up. We're all going to screw up, but just screw up less. You've been doing this for a while and talking to parents for a while. Do you feel like parents today are much more anxious than before? I think we've always been anxious, but we're more distracted now. And therefore when you're more distracted, you get more anxious because you don't remember. You're not fully present or attuned. And we are more in this comparison perfectionism than ever before. I don't know about you, but I'm constantly thinking I'm not good enough now every day because I'm seeing people's houses. I'm seeing their cars.

I'm seeing their hair routines, their face routines, makeup routines. I'm like, oh my God, I have no routine. I literally have no routine. So I'm never feeling good about myself. I'm thinking to myself, wow, I didn't do all this when I was 35. man, these 35-year-olds are prushing it. So then you feel really bad about yourself. So we're living in this pervasive, perfectionistic,

super elite kind of curated life that is really unreasonable, unsustainable, and it's completely illogical, but yet we think it's real. So we're putting pressure on ourselves, but we cannot do it all, but we want to do it all. And I think we're really damaging ourselves. So we need to wake up. And that's what my book gives parents the permission to do, which is stop following the matrix. Come back home to yourself.

Your children need you. These are the years that they need you, not super mom, not super dad. They need just you. Your full on presence and heart. So I think my books are giving parents the permission and the pathway to reconnect to their children's childhood in a way that is getting really muted. and lost out there. Yeah, I agree. Like, you know, I'm sort of in the thick of it right now.

I have three kids, five and under. And I feel like I'm like the, there is a lot of noise. And it's deciding when to listen to yourself and when to outsource that. And so I think that's something I like about your message is that it does sort of combine the two of like, okay, you have some inner knowing that is important between you and your child. And there are some tools that you can implement. with that. It's been helpful.

There's so much you can do. The other day, I was with another podcast and she was saying to me, she doesn't like to play with her kids. And she thought I would judge her. And I said, you don't have to play. You can just be there. And just do 15 minutes. And for 15 minutes, maybe you can do a little

bit. But when you think to yourself, I have to play all day, who wants to play all day with that kid? It's mind-numbingly boring at times. So little things we don't realize can make such a difference. I told her, do 15 minutes, go out, do your work come back, or just read there or just be there, right? We put too much pressure on ourselves.

And we think we need to be the comedian, the entertainer, the science teacher, the history teacher, the proper parent, the gentle parent. No, we can't do all that. We can just be. And in our being, we can do a lot of positive. Totally. I mean, I feel like my philosophy has been to be like one. of many things that my children are exposed to because I'm not good at everything. And so can I bring in grandparents and child care and people who embody other qualities that I don't have,

you know, that they can get that from those people instead of me trying to become all of those things because one, it's not possible. And two, it's just so inefficient when I could like find other villagers, you know, to be around my kids. Absolutely. Outsourcing is a skill. It's a strategy, especially when they're very young and when they grow older. So maybe in between when they're cute enough and they're more human and more adult, like between six and 12, you can be there. But when they're young, get in the tribe, get in the village. And then from 12 and 13, start outsourcing, bringing cousins and uncles and elders and big brothers, big sisters.

This is the village and we've lost the village. And now we're going crazy. and our poor children are subjected to us 24-7. What a horror story that is. It's so true. I want to, before we sort of switch into talking more about girls, I want to hit on some of the, I think, scariest things for parents, especially of boys that fall into that, like, 11 to 16-year-old range.

And I'm thinking about, like, sex, video games. We talked a little bit about the Manosphere, social media. like what is your philosophy as a conscious parent to approach those things? What should people remember when talking about those issues? 11 is almost too late. You have to understand now it's become 7, 8, 9 because it's not necessarily your kid. It's the kids he's hanging out with or she's hanging out with. So it's their siblings, their exposure, their parental presence, right, in their homes.

So you have to now anticipate, preempt, and protect. So you have to start talking about these things from a young age, build your community, try to get all the other parents involved, go to your school, ask them to pass a law, do whatever you can to activate and advocate for as much protection as possible. And then be really aware of what's happening in your child's pocket on a screen. Always be around. put it in public, don't let it go into the bedroom. Do not slack.

Treat it with the intention that it deserves, that it is a drug. It will take a hold of your child's life and you want to protect them. No matter what they say, oh, my friends are on it, oh, you're so mean, it's okay. You can give a little, but you have to supervise. You cannot take your hands off the wheel. You have to watch. You have to be vigilant. You have to be a little paranoid.

it and ever, ever, ever, you know, aware and supervising, do not let go off the wheel. Because if you do, the algorithm will take the car off the highway. Yeah, it's, it's hard to compete with those algorithms, I think. I mean, I have a five-year-old. And the other day, he was like, when do I get to have a phone in my room like you? And I'm like, we're already having conversations about this. You don't even have a phone. And you're asking when you get to keep one in your room. I was like, I don't think. Because he sees, he sees everyone has one. Yeah, he sees me with it in my room at night. What is this candy? Everybody can live, nobody can live without this candy everywhere he looks. So he's just imitating us. And that's really the tragedy. Yeah, for sure. We've lost the communal family TV.

That was seen as a bad thing at one time. And now it's, I look at it as so benevolent compared to what we have now. Oh my gosh. I know. And it's even funny where it's like, I think the grandparents on the phones have become an issue as well. I talk with a lot of parents about that, that like my parents are always on their phones. They're trying to give my kid a game. It's like everyone is sort of into this technology and you're competing with it all the time, even generationally. Yes. It's all over the place.

It's seen as the future. So you feel almost in a bind on one hand. you want to expose them to the future and make them all successful about it. But on the other hand, you know it's instinctively, you know this is not a good thing. But you're caught in between. You know, how much technology is good. Where is the good technology? How to handle the good technology?

If we could do that, that would be amazing. But so far, there is no magic potion of the correct balance. So we're yo-yoing and toggling, not sure. And parents are helpless. This is bigger than the parents in many ways. ways, but also the only person who can take charge is the parent. Yes, exactly. And I think that's where you and I are so aligned is like parents need to be leaders, right?

They need to show their children how they want them to be through their own behavior. And sometimes that means us evaluating our own relationships with technology, you know, and what we're modeling to the kids as well. Yes, exactly. I want to shift now into talking about girls. I know a lot of the things we just talk. about also applies, but are there any unique things that you think parents of daughters are facing, like, in a more intense way at this moment in time? You know, we've always had to deal with

the extreme objectification, the extreme perfectionism comparison. We've always been relationally attuned and very sensitive to culture's messages. And culture has done a real number on us women. We know that. But now, Whitney, it's astronomical catastrophic. It is cataclysmic because now she's being, you know, BS and lied to every single minute. You know, the filters, the editing, the curation, the comparison, the like button, the approval, the ads, the makeup routines, the get ready with me routines. I mean, it is constantly a barrage. She's getting evaluated and approved off on a daily basis. She's being told how to look and when to look and what to wear.

So now the pressure on the girl, if it was bad for you and me, is almost unbearable now. And she has to contend with all of it. And it's a lot for her to juggle. Yeah. I can't even imagine having that much access to what I should look like, what I should be buying. how other people look.

You know, when I was growing up, like, you really were just exposed to the other girls around you and maybe what you saw in like magazines, movies, a TV show, but not like a million other girls your age and older than you. And the filter, like, it just, I'm overwhelmed by it. As an adult woman who knows what I'm looking at, you know, I can see that, oh, this is doing something to my brain. And I'm not a kid.

It never makes us feel good, doesn't it? No. And we're most likely tempted to buy something at some point in the week. Within seven days, for me, I show such low willpower. I'll try to handle it. But by the week's, by day seven, I've bought some dumb cream. I've bought some curling lash thing that would make my lashes long. I've succumbed. I've given in. And each time I buy it and it comes to my house, I see that it was never what was advertised. Ever. Yeah. And I'm just, I'm fascinated by how the algorithm got me, you know? I'm just, I'm really a test study. Totally. And even, I mean, you and I are both in a, in a part of the field where you're looking at yourself a lot on camera. You're doing interviews. You're seeing yourself on social media that I know what that has, I've really had to resist some of the things that has done to my brain that I cannot imagine, you know, and I think we have to tend to this with our. daughters and sons, what it is like to constantly be looking at yourself like that and having yourself be perceived, you know, through other people's eyes and then even critiqued. I call it the perception prison. And you and I know, you know, before COVID, there was not so much on Zoom, right? And then everything became on Zoom. And now everything's on FaceTime and Zoom and Google Meet. And so this unhealthy constant self-appraisal

is so toxic for us because we're not supposed to be looking in a mirror. We're not even supposed to own a mirror. We should be looking at the mirror once a day in the morning, maybe at night. But now we're constantly seeing our reflection. So we're seeing, and the thing, the great thing is, of course, we don't realize is no one really cares except us.

But we're constantly viewing ourselves as if somebody else is viewing us. And it is exhausting. It takes a toll. you notice things you're not supposed to be looking at. And then we obsess over it, then we want to fix it. And of course, then you buy more products, right? Yeah. I think you talk about like how the fear of rejection is impacting our daughters.

Can you speak more to that, what it's doing to them? Yeah, I think it's making them so paranoid, right? I mean, imagine when we grew up, we got, you know, rejected at the annual school dance once in a blue moon or grandma said something about our pimples. But it was really measured and we knew who the enemy was. Here now, the bully is out of the school yard. It's everywhere. And everyone is fair game.

And everyone thinks that they can comment. And then you don't realize who is real or who is virtual or who is inconsequential. You take it all seriously. And so then for a young girl who is blossoming into her identity, who doesn't know who she is yet, this constant barrage of feedback really decimates her very fragile sense of self. She's not even had a chance to ask who she is, and she's already being told who she's not and who she is and who she should be.

So we have to protect our daughters. And in my daughter's book, I give a lot of clues, a lot of signals, a lot of suggestions on how parents can really show up and have those deep conversations and make sure the daughters understand, that they are being, you know, played, that they are being manipulated and exploited. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I know that seems like such an important lesson to teach very young, like to be able to be

discerning and to spot the signs of that. Yes. Yes. You know, a lot of the people that listened to my show grew up in homes where maybe there was some, like, religious fundamentalism or a lot of strict beliefs around girls and sexuality. And so they are kind of navigating this uncharted territory of speaking to their daughters about sex and about their bodies when they never got those conversations themselves.

So I'm wondering if you can speak to how those parents can help themselves feel comfortable with it. And also, you know, is there anything they want to make sure that they do? I think it's so great that we are becoming more relaxed and open about it. I will encourage parents to remind their daughters that they should not mistake hypersexuality for liberation, you know, because we've been so suppressed and felt so oppressed that now we may have swung the other way where we're like, I'll wear what I want, I'll do what I want, I'll show what I want. Well, don't mistake it for liberation. It could be, but it may be another disguise for the same suppression, and you still want the man to look at you and the man to pay you for sex. and it will just look different, you know, on Onlyfans, maybe it's more glamorous. But at the end of the day, you may go the same way. So we wanted really teach our daughters.

The same things we've always wanted to teach our daughters, that their worth doesn't lie in their beauty. Of course, everyone wants to look beautiful and feel desired, but they cannot tie up their work to an extreme. They need to not follow the trends. They need to really come home to themselves. And really there, the mother is a prime example of how she treats herself, how she is in her body, how she cherishes her body and cherishes her daughter's body,

how she celebrates herself, how she eats, how she looks in the mirror. And then on the father's end, how he treats women, how he talks about women, how he cherishes the mother. All of these things will be playing into the daughter's psyche without the daughter even realizing that she's creating a sense of self, right? Yeah, I think the way that the mother speaks about her own body and even speaks about other people's bodies around her. You know, one of the stories I hear so much from adults who have a difficult relationship with their mother is like, my mom might have not criticized me,

but she criticized everyone around us that was more overweight or didn't do their hair. And so I internalized that like those were bad things. And so how important do you think it is for the mother to even work on herself more than focusing on the child? Oh, so. So, important more than anything. Just work on yourself. That's my core message. And yes, when she's criticizing women all the time, you know, even if she's saying, oh, look at those women, they think they're so fancier. Look at that woman, you know, woman. She's wearing such a awful dress. She may think it's benign, but she is really showing her daughter that appearance matters, right? Appearance matters. And we want to show our children that appearance doesn't matter, you know. And it's

really important to show them that you're comfortable as you are and you don't care about what people think. Often my daughter will tell me, for example, mom, you can't wear that. You know, at least dress up a little bit and, you know, I'll be a little embarrassed, but I'll come back and I'll tell her, Maya, I'm so sorry, I really don't care. And she's like, but I care. Right. So now it's the other way. So then we will negotiate. I'll give her two choices. I go, These are my max. I'm willing to bend. But after this, I am not bending.

I'm willing to play your game. But I want you to know, I want to be appropriate and make you feel comfortable. But I also cannot play the cultural game. I cannot do it. And she and I compromise. You know, often I compromise on one thing, a top or shoes. Because I really don't give a damn. So I have the opposite effect going on here.

But I can understand. And I don't want her to feel uncomfortable. But also children need to know that we cannot sell ourselves. Just because culture tells us to look a certain way, we need to maintain decorum, but we cannot sell our soul. And there has to be that line loudly, clearly demonstrated in the house. Yeah, I agree with that. I think there's that fine line between like what's appropriate and what are you doing as like a performance, you know, that, okay,

it's good to teach your kids like, yeah, you need to wear this to a funeral. to a wedding, but not that every single thing needs to be this type of performance. Yes. So the last thing I kind of wanted to touch on is that, you know, a lot of my work is with parents who feel like their parents raised them very differently, maybe than a sibling. So a brother and a sister growing up in the same home, and the brother was given maybe less boundaries, not have to do stuff in the home. the daughter felt like they were the one that was always cleaning and cooking.

And so now they're trying to make sure that they raise their children in a different way. Is there any advice you would have for that type of parent? I know. It's so hard. You know, parents do have different rules. In some ways, it makes some sense, meaning if the boy has more freedom to stay out a little later, I can understand that one. But I do not understand girls having to cook more and do more in the house. That is not fair.

And parents need to just be mindful because if anything, we need both of them to learn how to manage themselves and be independent. And we have to really train our sons to learn to participate in the home and really show up. Because as women are becoming more modern and as women are showing up more outside the home, they're not going to settle for men not showing up in the home. So to set the man up, set your son up for successful relationships, he needs to show up in the home. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's certain tasks that are certainly any gender can do them. It's like the biggest lie we've been sold, you know, that men can only take out the trash. They can't do dishes.

Yes, exactly. Absolutely. And it's a good thing for them to feel competent and to feel like the home belongs to everyone, the outside world belongs to everyone. And that's how we change the world. Exactly. Exactly. Well, the last question I want to ask you, just to leave everybody with a little bit of hope if they feel like they've totally lost it. Let's imagine that someone's listening to this and they're like, oh my gosh, I've been doing the opposite of everything that they just said. And they're convinced that they've ruined their child. What would your advice be to that parent who's really trying to turn it around? Oh, my goodness. You can turn it around starting today. there is no parent who has never messed it up a lot. I have messed it up a lot.

This is not about perfection. Do not worry. Start where you are, even if your kid is 35 years old, you can change things around right now. I have helped 40, 50-year-old fathers reconnect with their children, mothers reconnect with their children. It happens all the time.

So do not feel bad. This is not a one-time try. this is a journey. It's a constant relationship that is constantly dynamic. I believe in giving parents confidence and hope, not making them feel like there's a verdict or, you know, an indictment against them. There is no grade. This is an ever-evolving journey. You have a right to have been unconscious. You could not have been conscious. How could you have been conscious if you weren't conscious? Because we can only do what we know. So I want every parent to start today. And that That's what I do. When I mess up 10 minutes ago, I start now. And I do that with almost anything in my life.

Yeah, I love that so much. And I agree with you. I have seen parents of adults, you know, say, I want to turn it around and do something different. And I think that's the thing I love about the conscious parenting is that it's not just a set of tools, but more of a philosophy that I am going to try to like embody this with my children. And it's never too late. So thank you so much. it perfectly. This is not about strategies or scripts or tools. This is not even gentle parenting, which is a strategy. This is a life-changing, lifelong, beautiful, in my opinion, philosophy that isn't it the most loving thing we can do for ourselves, which is to see our children as our teachers and grow from every moment? I mean, you can never go wrong with that. And I

feel so much love and compassion and adoration and admiration and admirable. for every parent because parenting is one of the most human things you can do. But because it's so human, you're going to mess it up, especially without the village. So have grace. These are the two books. Support me in spreading this message. Please, absolutely. You can get raising conscious daughters and raising conscious sons.

I assume anywhere where books are sold. Yes. If you go to your website, however, you'll get some bonuses. Amazing. We will link that in the show notes as well for anyone that is looking to get your book. Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Whitney. Thank you to everyone. The Calling Home podcast is not engaged in providing therapy services, mental health advice, or other medical advice or services. It is not a substitute for advice from a qualified health care

provider and does not create any therapist, patient, or other treatment relationship between you and Colling Home or Whitney Goodman. For more information on this, please see Calling Home's terms of service linked in the show notes below.