CALLING HOME with Whitney Goodman, LMFT - Sarah Adams

Episode Date: October 10, 2023

Whitney discusses the issue of 'sharenting' or oversharing children's lives on social media with guest Sarah Adams. Sarah is a mother of two, and she argues that this practice can be a form of child exploitation, as it often involves sharing children's experiences with a large and potentially dangerous audience for entertainment purposes. She wants parents to reconsider the impact this could have on their children's future and their right to privacy. Sarah also discusses the different categories of parents who overshare, including new parents, 'medical mamas' who share their children's medical information, and those who seek online popularity. She advises parents to reflect on their sharing practices and to treat their children as autonomous human beings rather than props for content. Qeepsake – use code CALLINGHOME to get 20% off your annual subscription. We text you questions and you text us the memories you want to hold tight. Alzheimer's Association - join the Walk to End Alzheimer's and help us make a brighter future for all those affected by Alzheimers's. Make a difference today Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My guest today is Sarah Adams, a mom of two, and someone whose entry into motherhood back in 2017 introduced her to something known as Sharon Ting, which Sarah candidly describes as a form of child exploitation. We all know there are social media accounts out there that are not only oversharing their child's lived experience to a large and potentially dangerous audience, but in some cases are purposefully using them for entertainment to captivate their viewers. I'm Whitney Goodman. Welcome to the Calling Home podcast. I'm glad you're here. The bottom line is every child, regardless of age or developmental stage, should have the right to privacy and informed consent. I hate seeing that very normal childhood behaviors are being

used for social media content. And often in the comment section, you'll see these normal behaviors being scrutinized or belittled by strangers who are consistently being fed doses of this child's life. I don't think that these people who run these accounts are inherently bad parents, but I do think that we need to reconsider and deeply think about how this is going to impact our children later on in life and what we're subjecting them to by putting them constantly in the public eye. Why did you start talking about this? Because I can feel your passion and I'm wondering what keeps you up at night about parents over sharing. I just started to feel a little uncomfortable with the amount of time parents were spending online, the information

they were sharing, the constant updates of images and videos and information. And I just started to think like, does anyone else feel this? Does anyone else feel that maybe like this is getting to be a little too much sharing. And one day I just had this revelation that like, holy, I'm a stranger. I'm a stranger who is like kind of invested in the lives of these children who do not know me, nor do they know that they are being used as content online and, you know, having this extensive digital footprint made for them by their own parents. When that light bulb went on, that I I am a stranger following children online. I was like, okay, this is weird.

And I feel like this needs to be talked about. Does anyone else feel this way? So I downloaded TikTok one day and just kind of started talking. I think it's amazing that you've not only started to have this conversation, but I think this is a topic that gets so much pushback, right? And I see it happening in your comments a lot or, you know, the way people respond. And I'm wondering, like, how do you deal with that on a personal level? And also, where do you think that's coming from? At first, it was pretty difficult. Like, when I first,

like, came on the scene, I was a little bit of a polarizing figure. And I'd never been online before. Like, I'd never had social media and really expressed myself in that way. So that was new to me, right? To be hated on, per se. And it kind of got to me. But at the same time, there was a level of, hold on, let me look at what this person is saying and maybe I can articulate what I'm saying better, right? Like a lot of the comments and the hate per se ended up helping me become the creator I am today and pose these questions and have these conversations will try my best to remove the judgment and the shame or the mom shaming that a lot of people we're commenting on, which I feel like in today's day and age, I feel like the mom shaming is kind of like

the Karen, you know, like we've overused it. Like what is it anymore, right? I don't feel like it is mom shaming by believing that children have a right to privacy and informed consent and digital safety and asking parents to be mindful of the digital footprint they are creating for their children, I don't feel or view that as mom shaming. And that was really hard for me to get over because I didn't want to be perceived as that. And I think I would like to say most people don't look at my content in that way anymore. The conversation has shifted, right? It has changed. For sure. Especially over the first few months. So it took a little while to get over that. But I just feel like my message is important. And if people aren't receptive to it or think it is mom shaming,

frankly, that usually comes from a place of them needing to self-reflect on the content they are consuming and the information and images they are sharing. Yeah, I have definitely been met with like the mom shaming stuff before myself. And when I watch your video, sometimes I'm like, oh, we have very similar personalities where it's like the past. passion in you is coming out in the video and you're so like, oh my gosh, I want people to know about this and I want to like protect these kids that if you're not in a place to like receive that, I can see how people are like, whoa, you're coming at me. But when it feels like it's so dangerous to keep doing, you know, what some parents are doing, I get why it comes out of

you like in that way that is passionate. Yeah. And I do have to check myself a lot. Like there's oftentimes, um, I don't know about you, but I rarely like make a video and post it immediately. I'm a make a video sit on it. Okay. Look back. How is my tone? How is the information? Is everything blurred appropriately? I take a lot of time before I hit post to make sure I'm conveying my message appropriately and in a way to be received because if people feel attacked, they don't listen. 100%. And if these people, specifically the influencers and the family vloggers, if they feel like

attacked and beaten down, they're not going to listen that. We're not trying to like shame you. We're just trying to have you take a moment of pause to look at it through the lens of your child and their future and potential consequences and ramifications in a different perspective because once you have that different perspective, once you have that different perspective, you realize you're giving strangers access to your children and they didn't consent to any of this. And now that it's out there, you can't take it back. Like, it's kind of a wake-up call. It totally is. So let's kind of like backtrack a little bit and talk about what is your message.

What are you hoping to illuminate and to convey to parents through your videos? I am hoping that parents will take the time to reflect on their own sharing practices, the way they are utilizing their children online or the information and images they are sharing and realize that children are autonomous human beings, worthy of dignity and respect, who don't deserve to be used as props and accessories for content so parents have something they can post, right? These are little humans. And a lot of the content I'm seeing isn't really treating them like little humans.

It's treating them as props. yes to make videos and skits from and things like that and the second part is for parents to reflect on what they are consuming are you consuming content that is child exploitation right are you supporting that type of content by following these mummy vloggers and those family vloggers because you might not think much of it now or you might not know the definition of child exploitation But that's what it is. It's exploitative. And we should all stop following the kids as content accounts. Yeah, you know, I've always been somebody that did not want to share my child online. And I knew that I wasn't going to do that. Really, even before I had kids, just because I'm a pretty private person. And also with my career, I just didn't think it was safe, you know, with me being so public-facing in some ways. But I was a big consumer of,

some of this content. And I actually noticed like, wow, I would recognize this influencer's kid out in public if I saw them and be like, oh, I know what they ate for breakfast today or whatever it is. And that was when I really had to think about like, what am I doing by consuming this content? So I'm glad that you bring that up. There might be parents who are really not doing that with their own child, but how are we like playing a role in like keeping this alive by consuming the content? Very well said. Exactly. And that's what we are doing. We are supporting it. And I think a lot of times, you know, as you know as a therapist, it takes time for us to reflect on our childhood and our trauma and things like this. And I didn't think this way as a teenager or a young adult. I had a

roommate who was really into John and Kate plus eight. I remember sitting down, well, she, watch that show. Well, now I see this family, like feeling like they need to have these family conversations publicly and justify and talk and they're out there. And these kids never asked for any of that. And by watching it as an adult, like, I feel like, well, we were kind of like indirectly or directly part of that. I was a Britney Spears fan in high school. Right? You know what I mean? I've seen her career in what has happened, I feel like by buying those magazines and logging on Perez Hilton, that I indirectly assisted in the exploitation of that child star, right? Like, you feel things differently as your brain develops and you mature and you go into adulthood

and you become a parent. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. For sure. I've seen you do videos where you sort of talk about what it's like for the child in a moment, you know, they're crying and the parent brings out. the phone, like, wait, let me catch that. And I'd love to hear more about, like, what you think is the experience of the child to be on camera all the time. I honestly can't imagine having

a camera in my face. But again, like, if this is happening to a child from a very young age, they don't even know what is happening, right? Like, that is just their lived experience. That is their normal to be filmed. So how long is it going to take for them to realize that that is not the majority of kids normal, right? And another thing I think about when thinking about these kids with the camera and their face is, can they authentically be themselves? Right? Like when the camera's out, do they know that they have to perform? Do they know that they have to like go into that mode, that content mode, that extra cute voice or that acting mode to say something, right? Are they performing at just being themselves?

Yeah. That's really concerning. And if they are these kids of content and they are performing, they're doing it because they get the validation and the admiration from their parents. And parents will come on and they'll say, well, they love being filmed. They love the attention they get from you. They love your reaction. They love that you grab the phone later and say, oh, look, Haley, a million people liked

your photo and, like, look how happy mom is because you did a good job. That's what they like. They don't know what's happening. Yeah, yeah. You're working so hard day and night just being a parent, and Keepsake takes the pressure off having to preserve the big and small moments, and it does this for you with thoughtful prompts. Keepsake sends daily text prompts with questions so you never miss a.

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To register and get involved with the walk near you, head to al-Z. or slash walk today. You know what's crazy is I have a two-year-old. And like sometimes when I will pull out the phone, like to video him doing something, he'll be like, mom, no pictures. Yeah. Like he has that language and that awareness of the phone at such a young age that I'm like, imagine if I were to say, well, like, no, we have to film this.

Or I have to, you know, use the camera. We need to do this for X. I think they do start making those associations at such a young age of like my mom spends time with me when we're doing things on video or I have to do this or I'm going to get in trouble. I saw a video the other day of some parents, you know, answering a question about this. Like what do you think it's going to be like for your kids when they're older and they were basically like, well, they'll be happy that college is paid for and they got to go to private school. And, you know, almost like this privacy can be exchanged.

for a better financial future, right? And I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. I'm not a big fan of that because, first, I think it's the parent's responsibility to provide for the child and not the child's responsibility to provide for the parents and the family. If you're exploiting your child online and they have turned into your content, that's what you are doing. They are the one paying the mortgage and they are the one paying the car payment

because they are the content. They are why you are popular, right? And when they say, well, oh, they'll like their private school or they'll like their college that is paid for, all I can think is, but you can never buy back their privacy. You can never buy back those Reddit boards where people were bullying them from toddlers. You can never buy back the images that might now exist on the dark web via AI and digital manipulation. you cannot buy back exploiting the sacred and intimate and private moments of their life for content. You can't get it back. You can always make more money, right? Like we can always find a way, pick up another job, find a creative way to do it online that doesn't involve

exploiting our children. There is more money to be made. But the things that these parents are taking away from their children aren't things that you can give back to them. And that's very concerning. With the new law, I'm sure you've seen in Illinois where the parents have to put aside a certain percentage, I was like, oh, that's great. But again, we're kind of saying like, it's okay to explore your child as long as you save some money for them. And, you know, they get that later. Like, to me, it's not enough protection. It's definitely not enough, right? It's a good first step because at least if this is happening, there's something. Absolutely.

Because look at child stars, okay? It's not the same thing, but if there's a case study, we can probably look to that. How many child stars were exploited and left with nothing by their parents, by their, you know, stage parents and things like that. If you think that all of these family vloggers are stashing all this money away for their children's savings and stuff like that, I feel like you are incorrect. Are some? Yes, of course. And are others? Absolutely not, right? And internet virality is usually like a short-term thing, right? So they might be peaking and be making tons and tons of money right now, but that might fade out. And then when that money fades out, do the parents dip into those pockets of savings that they thought they had for their children because they need to pay mortgages and stuff like that? It's going to be very interesting to see how. this turns out. And for kids who were part of the family vlogging world, to potentially grow up and find out your whole life was exploited online, and then you get nothing but maybe your college tuition paid for, that doesn't sound very fair.

Does not sound fair to me at all. And as a therapist that works with a lot of adult children and their parents and estrangement, I really see this becoming a huge reason in the future of why adult kids don't speak to their parents because of how they handled their online data and their privacy and what they shared. I think to your point also, that's also true for the regular everyday parents, right? Oh, absolutely. You know, sharenting is taking place amongst all of us, right? It's not just the influencers and family vloggers. There's a lot of just regular folk who are sharing way too much about their children online. And I hear from these children a lot.

And I hear from parents who used to and have moved away from it. And Cam Barrett, one of the people who spoke out on the Illinois bill, she shared her experience with a mother who overshared and how it has directly affected her life as a young adult, right? To think that these kids are going to get out of this, like, Scott Free, it's just not going to happen. Yeah. So let's talk about that a little bit more because I've heard you kind of divide up these different groups of parents, right? It sounds like we have like the family bloggers, the people that are really directly participating in child exploitation and making money off it. How would you classify the other groups of sharenting that are going on? I think there's the new parent group, like who just had babies and they're excited and they want to share and they're.

they're so beautiful and there's this natural inclination to share. And then they, and it feels normal these days, right? Like, it feels like this is what people do. You have a baby and then you share all of it online, right? So I feel like that is a category. There's a category which some would refer to as like medical mamas who are taking, you know, their children's medical diagnoses, terminal illnesses and things like that and using that online. there is a realm of children who are being exploited by being hypersexualized by their parents online. Oh, there's a few silos, I would say. For sure. And I, you know, I don't know if it might have been you that said this online. There was this metaphor of like, if you're going to share

something online about your child, you have to kind of imagine as if you're inviting all these strangers into your home to say like, look at my kid in the bath, you know, or here's my kid's medical information. I think when you hear it like that, you're like, oh, I would never do that. But it is kind of what you're doing when you are publicly sharing this information with people. It's truly shocking what parents have shared. I have seen so many children covered in feces online and shared by their own parent who is supposed to. you know be their protector i saw the other day a father sharing his son's circumcision online oh wow yeah exactly like the amount of parents who no longer view anything as private

intimate or sacred because this world has become so consuming and they are looking at their moments in their children's life as content versus moments It is concerning. It's very worrisome. Yeah. You know, when you say that I just have this reaction of like, oh, my gosh, how could you do that? And then my therapist brain kind of kicks in about like, okay, why are people doing this? What is the underlying desire? And I assume you've thought about this. Like, what do you think is motivating people? Well, a lot of people seem to say their motivation is to share, normalize, religious,

support. I, as a parent and as a mother, feel like we are capable of doing that without utilizing our kids and doing it on the backs of their private medical information and their images and they're embarrassing and traumatic moments, right? I feel we can all still connect and we can share stories and support each other without allowing our children to be present in an online world that seems to become more and more. safe as the years progress, right? And sadly, I think some people just want virality. They just want a viral video. They want online popularity. They want the dopamine hits from the likes and the views and they want the followers and they want accolades and validations. We support you. You're doing

a great job. You're amazing. Go you. And that could be because they're alone in their parenting or their mothering journey, and I get that. But when it's done by violating your child's right to privacy and informed consent and digital safety, that's where my concern comes in. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think now, especially on TikTok, I'm seeing a lot of mom creators who share about their motherhood without ever showing their child. And I still feel very connected to them as other women who are mothers without knowing their kids. And I think it can be done. Definitely. My whole, everyone I follow almost on TikTok is doing that, whether they are just narrating stories, whether they're like acting out, pretending to be their

toddlers, things like this. There's creative ways to show everyday parent life and, you know, the frustrations and the highs and the lows without sharing your kids all the time and making it about them. And some creators have become very successful by doing that. Yeah. And I think that's wonderful. There's also this other, you know, like the darker side of that that you mentioned is like wanting to become viral, wanting to get those accolades, possibly trying to monetize things off the back of your children. And I think it becomes particularly dangerous when you're doing that in a way that is really embarrassing. You're sexualizing the child. You're putting them down. And all of that, I feel, really requires this belief that children are their parents' property when they are young

and that they are not people. And I feel like, and I don't know if you agree with this, like we need a real fundamental shift as a culture just in how we view children before people are going to start changing their behavior in this realm. I think that is so perfectly said, Whitney, and that is what I'm trying to always convey, is that children are autonomous human beings, right?

They're babies now, but they will grow up. to be adults and to find out that they weren't treated with dignity and respect from their own parents and they were utilized in some of their hardest and toughest moments as content for strangers to comment on and be entertained by, it feels like a violation of the trust between a child and parent relationship a lot of the time. It really does. And I think I would imagine if I had to put myself into the mindset of anyone listening who maybe has done this or knows someone that has, that maybe they did not get treated in that way as children, right? And I think sometimes for parents, it's scary to think about this, but becoming a parent

is one of the first times in some people's lives where they have full control and authority over someone else. And that can be really, like, intoxicating, I think sometimes. and people take advantage of that, that it can be hard to think about, like, I never got this from my parents. My parents treated me like their property. And this is what parents do. And so developing, like, insight in that area, I think, can be, like, really painful,

even thinking about your own childhood and the ways that you were treated like that. Yeah, I agree. I think a lot of this journey that I've been on is also eye-opening in the sense that I feel very fortunate to have been raised by good parents, right? They're good parents. You know, they weren't without problems. They weren't always perfect. But in seeing what I am and growing, I kind of lucked out with my parents, right? And it used to be that you knew there were bad parents and you knew bad things were happening. And usually they were happening behind closed doors. But now with social media, a lot of those things are happening out in the open

and parents are putting it on public display. And that's been very hard for me to wrap my head around. Just, I guess, accepting coming to the big realization that like some parents are just really shitty. Yeah. I mean, shitty people become parents. Yeah, right? Right. And that's the reality is like it can happen and I've noticed that as well like especially I talk a lot about physical discipline and spanking and hitting your kids and the stuff that comes into my comment section I'm like you're writing this in public I can only imagine the things that you are not doing on camera because things are always worse you know behind closed doors that it's it's scary and I think people don't think about the long term ramifications of that if you're

going to get divorced. You're in a custody battle. Like, you're in any type of position like that. You don't want this stuff on the internet. 100%. You know, you don't want footage of yourself hurting your children. Or later on, your kids are going to see that. I was thinking about this, like, I'm sure you've seen this egg challenge thing all over TikTok that literally sent me into a tailspin. Yeah, it's sent many of us into a tailspend. Yeah. Luckily now my feed is just all people like telling people to stop doing it. So it's been a good shift. But that is a shift. Like this is the first time. It's amazing. This is the first time I have seen a trend like this. We've really gained some backlash from some really prominent people. I specifically like all the medical professionals who are speaking out and all

the psychologist and therapists and counselors and everyone offering their opinion on this. It's so nice to see. It's been a great shift. And I think that shows how much things are shifting. But the majority of the people who did it are not hearing the rest of us. They come out with a justification video or a justified comment or they need to justify their behavior in some ways. And I find a lot of time people will be like, you know, well, you're saying that they're a bad parent or things like this with sharing or these pranks and stuff. And I'm not saying you're a bad parent. I'm saying this is a bad parenting decision. This, this is a bad parenting decision. And if you're doing this publicly, then I don't know, maybe there is some bad parenting behind

the scenes as well. You know, it's not wrong to admit faults as a parent, right? And like we all have them, myself included. Like, I am doing and will do things that my kid's going to be like, why'd you do that? That wasn't good, you know? But we all have to have the humility, I think, to be able to step back and be like, oh, I'm a good parent, but maybe I made a bad decision. And part of being a good parent is being reflective and being able to say, like, oh, now I'm getting new information, new feedback. I didn't think about that from this perspective. And it's okay to go back and say, I'm going to delete that video or I changed my mind about that instead of doubling down. Because I've actually seen, like you said, some creators that really did some very

empathetic responses of like, I just want to help you understand how this might be interpreted in your child's brain, not like you're a bad parent, you stupid idiot. Exactly. I didn't see anybody say you're a bad parent. Honestly, everyone I thought approached the subject. very like, hey, your child's brain is immature. They don't look at it as a prank, right? Like, it was very well articulated in the videos I saw. Now, I'm sure you could find and dig for a video where someone's saying, like, you're a bad parent, right? But overarching, people were just trying to give these parents relevant, invaluable information that they could reflect on and make better decisions moving forward in my personal opinion. I think it's great that we saw like a little bit

of a change in the tide there and it's a testament to the work you're doing and other people are doing online that I think it's going to start to become like not cool to do this stuff to your kids. And that has to happen for people to think about like, oh, I don't want to do that because it's frowned upon. It makes me unlikable. I hope so. I hope that this shift continues because like it is okay if this digital space is not child-friendly, right? There are many spaces in the world that aren't safe for children, where children shouldn't be and shouldn't be present. And if the online world in regard to social media

and having them on there at young ages and stuff becomes that, then that's okay. We've got to do what we can to protect our children, their digital safety, their privacy, their right to, inform consent. I always say that ideally, I'd just like my children to have the same digital autonomy that I had, you know? I was quote unquote an adult 21 years old when I signed up for Facebook, right? All those decisions I made, right? And they're on me. And it won't be the same for my children. They probably will be younger when they get on. But it would be nice for them to come on

and not have a lengthy digital footprint of me narrating who they are and what they are and their story. and their embarrassing moments for all their peers to find. I totally agree. So I want to move into maybe some, like, tips, suggestions for parents and give them some tangible things that they can do. So I know a lot of parents have this inner feeling of like, I want to share, but I don't want to violate my child's privacy. So what would be like a nuanced safe approach that you would give a parent in that position?

I think one big thing is to go private. First of all, to go private with a curated list of friends and followers that you trust and that like you have vetted and you feel safe sharing images and information of your children and with your children, right? That would be number one. I think parents can also pose questions about like, why am I posting this? Am I posting this because it is a milestone event? or a great picture from a family vacation, or am I posting this because I haven't posted something in a while and I feel like I need to? Questions like, if my child found this or their peers found this later in life, could they be bullied for it? Could they be embarrassed by it? I think just recognizing that you are creating your child's digital footprint

and how would they feel about the imaging, you are sharing and the information you are sharing and posing questions to yourself reflecting on that and the need to share. You know, is this photo decent, right? As my child semi-nude or in the bath or in the potty, does this violate their privacy? Does this image violate their trust between them and me? Asking these really basic questions can allow parents to kind of really filter through what is appropriate and not appropriate to post online. I love that. Something I did that I'll share as I started just like a shared photo album on my phone with family members that I want to stay like up to date with my son and I just

share things there. And it feels like social media. Like they can comment. They can like the photos, but they're just on a private album that I share with my family. And that's been really helpful. Yeah. I honestly, like with the grandparents, I will, you know, share via text. But my friends, my friends who live, like, far, they probably, like, haven't seen my kids in years. I'm not really, I'm not really, like, good with sharing images and things like that. It just doesn't. doesn't like come naturally to me. I get a lot of questions from people how to navigate these conversations with their family. How do I say I'm not sharing and the reasons why and things like that? And first I'll just say listening to podcasts and conversations like this is a good place for them

to start. Yeah. But for me, I kind of lucked out and don't have families who are really immersed in sharing on social media. So I never really had to have those conversations because like my parents don't know how log into Facebook, right? So I kind of lucked out in that regard. But there's also like some apps that are more private, like a lot of people talk about a family album app. I've just started using that one to explore it. But there are other ways to share your beautiful children without posting them publicly on social media. Yeah. And I think you mentioned something really important previously just like thinking about is this an embarrassing moment for my child. Is this something where I think we can have like really hard rules around like if they're in the

bathtub, if they're going to the bathroom, if they're in a compromising position that I wouldn't want someone to see me in, I probably shouldn't share it. When you say like hard rules, I naturally as a parent think, yeah, that should be a hard rule. How do parents not have that. hard rule. Like, how are we all not in agreement on this, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. How are we all not in agreement that images of your children in the bath or on the potty or running around in a state of undress or even naked? I have seen naked children on just regular parents' social media, right? It's mildly concerning that we're not all like, okay, well, at least we can all agree on this one thing.

I find that interesting. Yeah, there's a lot of cognitive dissonance, I think, because I saw an influencer recently talking a lot about sex trafficking and things like that. And then I went to their page and there was like 40 pictures of their toddler, you know, in the bathtub, not blurred or anything. And I was like, well, if you're thinking about sex trafficking, like, they're on the internet. They're not like hiding in the bushes. Like they're like, they're online.

And so I think when you're on your phone, you're not really thinking about, like, that you have to not be thinking about who are all the people that are going to be looking at your kid. And if you did that out in public, would it feel comfortable to you? Probably not. Yeah. And we have to recognize that we are sharing these spaces with the worst people in society. Like that's it. Like the worst people in society who will take these images, alter them, manipulate them, share them with people. been sent, sorry, it's awful. I've been sent boards where these people go to discuss specific children of influencers in very graphic ways. All the different things that could happen are scary. I can't imagine a child finding out that these conversations were happening about them online, right? and these images were warped and manipulated. It's awful. It's becoming more scary year after year in regard to what can potentially happen

with the information and images we share online. Yeah. This sounds like a great conversation for people to have people who are in relationships who are getting ready to have children to really sit down and discuss, like what are our rules as a family going to be around sharing what do we feel comfortable with. And of course, this will change throughout the child's life cycle and as your family ages. But I think now in this day and age, like, it's something that we need to be consistently talking about and reevaluating. I think that's exactly it. And that's a large

portion of why I started to have these conversations online, because for the amount of time parents are spending online and the amount of time we are sharing online, I didn't see like the other side being discussed. And I just wanted to assist in elevating this conversation because it seems really important. And parents, to your point, they need to be having these conversations and they need to be on the same page. Family, extended family, everyone before the child enters the world. So they know the rules about sharing the child online. Yeah, I love that. That way you can get everyone on the same page and really directly communicate those boundaries because it's so much harder to like make up for a lost time. I think once people have started doing whatever they want.

I think being proactive in regard to this is a lot easier to be reactive because parents need to recognize that once you post an image online, you immediately lose control of it, right? Like even if you're sharing it privately, you don't know who has screen. recorded it or screenshot it or a place that's somewhere else, right? Like, so parents need to be mindful. So having rules and boundaries before is always the best way to go. I love that. Great. Well, thank you so much for talking about this topic with us. I think that it's something that I could talk about all day long. I find it so interesting. Oh, we could go on. Exactly. Yeah. I worry I'll never run out of content, but I sure hope I do. My husband asked me how the other day is like,

do you feel like you could ever stop talking about, like, dysfunctional families? And I was like, no, I could just go on forever. No. No. Yeah, exactly. I guess it's a good niche. I don't know. I would love for people to be able to go and watch more of your content and learn from you. Where can they find you? I'm across most social media as mum dot uncharted. My largest platform is TikTok, but I'm also very active on YouTube as well as Instagram. Great. Thank you so much again. And I hope to have this conversation again soon. Thank you for having me.