CALLING HOME with Whitney Goodman, LMFT - Unresolved Childhood Trauma with Andrea Ashley

Episode Date: April 30, 2024

This week on Calling Home, Whitney discusses the impact of unresolved childhood trauma with the host of the Adult Child Podcast, Andrea Ashley. Andrea shares her personal journey of growing up in a loving but dysfunctional family, dealing with addiction, and discovering the concept of "adult children" of alcoholics and dysfunctional families. They’ll also touch on the difficulty of moving forward without an apology from parents and the importance of inner child work in healing. Learn more about the Adult Child Podcast at adultchildpodcast.com and follow Andrea on Instagram @adultchildpod.  Have a question for Whitney? Call Home at 866-225-5466.  Visit Mindhappy.com and use HOME15 for 15% off first monthly subscription! Click here to get “Toxic Positivity” on paperback.  Join Whitney’s Family Cycle Breakers Club for further support and discussion on family dynamics at CallingHome.co. Follow the Calling Home community on Instagram or TikTok.  Follow Whitney Goodman on Instagram or TikTok.  The Calling Home podcast is not engaged in providing therapy services, mental health advice or other medical advice or services, is not a substitute for advice from a qualified healthcare provider, and does not create any therapist-patient or other treatment relationship between you and Calling Home or Whitney Goodman. For more information on this, please see Calling Home’s Terms of Service. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We are wrapping up a full month of talking about parents who will not apologize to their adult children. And that's why I'm so excited today to have my guest, Andrea Ashley. She's the host and creator of the Adult Child podcast. And she's here to talk with me about healing from unresolved childhood trauma and growing up in a loving but dysfunctional family. I'm Whitney Goodman. Welcome to the Calling Home podcast. I'm glad you're here. I really appreciate Andrea joining me today because she's really open and vulnerable in sharing

her story and how she realized that her loving and dysfunctional parents shaped her behavior as an adult in numerous ways and how she had to sort of hit rock bottom in order to begin healing. Andrea talks a lot about her own journey with addiction, how she came to discover adult children of alcoholics and dysfunctional families and the ways that she has utilized. her past to help other people today with her podcast. I know that your podcast is called adult child. So I wanted to start with just, can you define adult child for us

and really like walk us through your journey of discovering you were an adult child of dysfunction? So I'll give you two definitions. So the first one comes from the program, ACA, the 12-step program. So they would define an adult child as someone who responds to life with self-doubt, self-blame, or a sense of being wrong or inferior, all as a result of their childhood experiences. The other definition I would give you comes from T.N. Dayton, who's one of the adult child pioneers. and she defines it as when our unresolved childhood pain surfaces and plays out in adulthood.

And I like to add, like, and not in a good way. It's not in a good way. And so before I talk about, you know, how my adult child bought, I think it's important to say that the term first came about in the late 70s. It was an offshoot from Alon. So there were a group of, they were part of Aalachian. and they sort of, like, graduated into Al-Anon. And they realized that they couldn't relate to what was being discussed in the meetings

because it was mostly about spouses or, you know, maybe children. And they were trying to cope with the damage that was done to them from growing up in a dysfunction, in an alcoholic home. And so they created their own meeting. Initially, it was like, you know, just an Al-Anon meeting, but then it shot off, and they created their own problem. program. And what they realized was that like even if this specific details of their childhood experience is varied, there were these common characteristics that they had. And that's the laundry list. And we can talk about that later if you want. I like shit my pants the first time I read it. And so then it was like less than 10 years later though that both like the mental

health and medical community realized that this wasn't like this adult child thing and these characteristics were not unique to somebody who grew up in an alcohol home and that there was actually like a ton of different dysfunctional family systems that could produce an adult child. So I like to say pretty much everyone. Pretty much everyone's an adult child. It makes sense. That laundry list is very eye-opening. I included that in an article on my website on calling home the other day. And when you see it for the first time, if you haven't seen it before, it can be really like eye-opening for people and also be like, oh, my gosh, I'm not alone in this. So what did you identify with?

Number 12, we were dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment, who will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings that we experienced, I would say, from growing up of people who were never emotionally there for us. So I grew up in an alcohol calm. I always knew that my childhood was less than ideal, but I had no idea that it impacted me in the ways that, it did was mostly because I became the problem. I became the identified patient. I became the

scapegoat like at around nine. And then 12 was when I started to drink and use drugs. And then I was really the focus of the family. Like I got sent to rehab for the first time in the eighth grade and was just like in and out of treatment centers in boarding schools. And then eventually got sober at 19. But for me, it was all about this broken man picker, you know? And so I would say that most people, when they enter sobriety, they typically don't have, you know, high self-esteem or a long history of healthy romantic relationships. So you typically find yourself in relationships that you shouldn't be in, right? We all kind of have this broken picker. But what I saw was that my friends that I got sober with, their pickers were improving. And mine was that. And not only was

my picker not improving. It was more so my reaction, the way I felt. and behaved in each relationship and the way that I felt when a relationship would end. And I was somebody that would like take long breaks in between. Like I was never somebody that hop from one to the next. And so I like to call my bottom the tale of two Bryans. So I dated two alcoholics named Brian back to back. So Brian number one was at seven years sober. We dated for less than a month. He ghosted me. It was pretty clear he was an alcoholic on the second date or on the first date, sorry. When he said to me, oh, I think it's great you don't drink anymore. I've really been trying to cut back and haven't been too successful.

Yeah. And so he ghosts me. And my reaction was if my husband of 30 years had just tragically died in a plane crash. You know, like I became non-functioning. I couldn't go to work. And it was in the midst of that that I had like the two really pivotal ahas. The first was there's no way that the way I'm feeling right now could actually be about this person. I'd known him for less than a month.

It didn't make sense. The second one was, this is a feeling I felt often as a child. And I realized that that feeling that I was going to die, that I experienced anytime a relationship, the exact same feeling that I felt when I woke up as a little girl and I felt like I was going to die if I couldn't sleep in my mom's bed. And at that point in time, I still didn't really realize that it was, I didn't realize that that was trauma. I didn't realize that that was what we call an emotional flashback at the time.

And so it was like a couple weeks a month or so later, I'm at an AA meeting and this woman with over 30 years talks about how when she had seven years, she'd hit a bottom as a result of a romantic relationship in which she came to terms with the true impact of her childhood. And she mentioned this book, adult children of alcoholic and dysfunctional families. I go home, I read it. I read that laundry list. My mind's blown. I go up to her the next week. And I'm like, thank you so much for your share. And she goes, Andrea, that's great.

but I just want to let you know that, like, just reading that book is not going to be enough. She's like, this is going to take you, like, years and years and years and years to work through. You have to treat this as seriously as your alcoholism. I think I was maybe 27 or 28, and I just thought, years, ladies, I don't fucking have years. And I just really hope that her childhood was way more screwed up than mine, you know? So I was like, all right, I'll take a year. off. I've read this book. Surely that I'll be good enough. And then fast forward, you know, a year, a year and a half later, enter Brian number two, another alcoholic named Brian. It was the most painful

six months of my entire life. And I mean, it was, it was just insane to see how this relationship was impacting me in all the same exact ways that my alcoholism was, you know? And it was through that when that finally ended, I truly saw how serious all this was and that my livelihood really dependent upon confronting it. It was through that relationship that I really was able to come to terms with the fact that this was complex trauma and complex PTSD. And yeah, so it was, it just, I had no idea. I had no idea. And there's so many people out there. who have no idea too, have no idea that like the recurring issues that they're encountering in life is a result of their unresolved childhood shit. And there's so many people

who don't have any idea that what they're experiencing is complex PTSD. Yeah, it's so interesting that these these romantic relationships that you experienced kind of led you to that realization and it shows how deeply buried some of this can be. Because of course, when I was looking back, you know, you've shared your story a lot on your own podcast and on your social media. I think the way that you reflect back on it now, and I have this experience with a lot of people, is like, oh, this is obvious, right? But when you're living through it and you're having this experience, especially as a child, it's just what you know. And it's just, it's just your family. And so, you know, you tell a story on your podcast, this separation anxiety that you experienced with your mother, you know,

when she was drinking and this feeling of wanting to take care of her, be attached to her in a lot of ways. And I'm wondering if you can speak to how you had that realization that that's what was going on with you as a child. Because they sent me to therapy when I was nine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like that's my stories like, you know, I was, I was heavily scapegoated and became the identified patient. So, you know, my dad traveled a lot for work, which was when my mom drank the most. First, I'll say, so what happened was one night, I was probably nine. I was already the girl that couldn't go to the sleep over. I was already the girl who, like, always got sick right before it was time to go to bed. But it was this one night I woke up in the middle of the night and I felt

like I was going to die if I couldn't sleep in my mom's bed. And, you know, I had woken up upset before, like from a bad dream or whatever. Walk in there, they'd walk me back a few times. I'd be okay, but this night was different. And once they realized that no one was going to get any sleep unless I got to sleep with my mom, my dad threw in the towel. He went and slept in my bed, and it started this cycle of me falling asleep in my bed. And then in the middle of the night, I would go and change places with my dad. And so after several months of this going on, they sent me to see a child psychologist. And so I was very aware of the term separation and I was also heavily parentified, right? And so I knew that this was what was going on,

but I asked my mom a couple years later, probably when I was a teenager, did you ever tell that therapist that you were an alcoholic and that you and dad fought all the time? And her response was, no, it didn't seem relevant. Yeah, I remember you saying that. I think it was an episode I listened to or your Instagram that I found that to be so interesting. Like it's funny when we hear it now, but it is something that I come up against with tons of parents of adult children when you're having these conversations of like, well, no, I don't think that did anything or that really wasn't a factor. I think she genuinely meant that too. That's the thing, too, is like, I really think that she believes that, you know? 100%. What did it feel like to you to hear like, oh, I didn't

think it was relevant? You know what? At that point in time, I was probably already heavily in my alcoholism and addiction as a teenager. So again, I had no idea how much any of this impacted me. You know, like I would recount my childhood. And this is common too. But it would be as if I was a news reporter standing in front of a burning building, that that burning building was actually my house. Very matter of fact, I had no idea. I could, I think part of it too is like I was so the printification and being so heavily involved. I found out about my mom's alcoholism when I was like seven and, you know, I was my dad's like emotional support and confidant. Like I've always been able to talk about it. I was so involved, you know, so it was just so intellectualized and just

being sent to boarding schools and therapists and always being able to talk about it. I really just had no idea. I had no clue that it made me feel that. And I really just thought that my own alcoholism was the problem. But the thing too is it's like it takes time though for this stuff to show up. You know, it comes out through, you know, mid, later 20s, early threes as we become more of an adult. That's when this stuff surfaces, you know. So how was I supposed to know? but um it it pisses me on it you know what and now it does like i've had the realization in the past year since i'm also a recovering alcoholic i've i've always just viewed my mom's sin towards me as like her being an alcoholic and i have that too so it's i don't know like the

feelings haven't really been there but the anger finally i mean it took me a long-ass time to be able to cry like the tears didn't start coming up for me until about a year and a half ago and it was summer, when I was, like, in the midst of an emotional flashback, having some stuff come up, that I really, the anger started to come up. It's like, fuck, I didn't choose this. I didn't choose this. Like, here I am, 35 years old. I've already done so much damn work on myself. And here I am feeling like I'm six years old and I'm going to die. And I didn't choose any of this. And meanwhile, my mom's sitting at her house, like, presently, you know, drunk and checked out. And so the anger and those feelings, like, really started to come up,

like, just how unfair it all is, you know? Yeah, absolutely. It's a lot to have those realizations. And I think that's why a lot of people remain in that place of denial, right? Or still using... Too scary. Yeah. So why, why still... start this podcast then. Why do this work publicly? Because I was brought here to do it. Part of hitting my bottom was the realization that I had been selling myself short, like from a career perspective. I was a CPA at the time. And not once had I really ever considered like what a fulfilling career would look like at all. Like all I cared about was finding a guy and getting married. And so part of it was like this realization of like

the potential within that I was letting go to waste. And so it was not only was I embarking on this journey to like heal. I was also embarking on this journey to figure out like why the hell was I put here. And so it just started this journey of like learning about myself and what makes me uniquely me. And mostly what it was was these these divinely inspired interactions with strangers. Like I'm just totally myself, right? Like I have no filter. And so the universe was just putting all these like on the bus like in a lift just all over the place. And I was just shown how because of my ability to be so open, so vulnerable, like from the second that you meet me, that all these people were being like, wow, they met me like 15 minutes ago, wow, I've never shared this

with anyone before, you know? And so I just saw that my gift is like this unapologetic, unabashed vulnerability and authenticity. So then I just started in my damn closet next to my cat's litter box on the floor. Where all the best podcasts begin. Yeah. I didn't know what the hell I was doing, you know, and I still don't. You know, I'm still going through it. You know, the stuff takes years and I was listening to an episode that I did the end of

2022. I was listening to it when I was about to record my episode for the end of 2023 and it's like, God, I felt like I was so much more healed. I thought I was so much more healed then. that's got to be interesting to have all that to go back and look at it is and it's hard you know my parents are you know me acting out like that really worked that really worked in saving the family so I was an only child but it was like when I was acting out my mom stopped drinking as much and my parents stopped fighting as much you know and as soon as I got sober it's just

been this downward spiral for them and especially when I started doing this adult child child work and I started to act differently in the family, you know, and it's so insane and crazy how they will try any opportunity to like put me back in that scapegoat role, you know, and to put me in that identified patient role. It is so ingrained. Yeah. I wanted to talk about that more. So I'm glad you brought it up of like, you said something in one of your episodes or you said I wasn't the problem child, I was trying to communicate the problem. But unfortunately, when you are, I think especially for only children, when you're put in that role, you then become the focus of the parents. And like you're saying, there was some benefit to that. Things got better. So if you

could be the one to suffer, then your family could feel a little bit better maybe to be in. And I think it would be really hard to step out of that role. I wonder if there's a part of you that still gets pulled into being like, I want to save my parents. Absolutely. Yeah. Because there's still some financial entanglement and I feel that's something I have a lot of shame about that I don't want to talk about, you know, but I think that that is a large part of it. Like when we're talking about my podcast and my business and my ability to, you know, be fully self-supporting, there's There's still a lot of self-sabotage there, and I think it is largely rooted in keeping me in that child role as a way to, like, save them, keep them safe. Even though I know that that's not, like,

none of that's happening. Like, none of what it's, like, it's really bad. I mean, I don't even know how my mom's alive, you know, her, it's insane. Like, their life, their, they're, their diseases, it's absolutely insane. But I'm sure that there still is this part of me that feels like I'm keeping them safe in some way. Yeah, finding a way for them to be needed. And them too, right? So it's really hard. It's really hard. And what's also really hard is that as their diseases progressed, they've become a lot more, especially my mother, like a lot more abusive. It was never like that, you know. It wasn't like that when I was a kid. My parents were, I mean, I would say 80% of my childhood was pretty good, you know.

I was never told I was a piece of shit. They were always at every event and we went on amazing vacations. They included me and all these, I never, you know, but that's just the nature of this disease of what they want to call it, I don't know. That's the other thing that's changed for me so much is that I view alcoholism so differently now. How do you view it now? How has that changed? It's all rooted in trauma. I just think for some people, maybe just going to AA and working the steps is plenty for them, for somebody like me, like I was going to die if I didn't do the deeper work. You know? And I know that that's why it's interesting. For me, I had to get sober and have that kind of under control before I was ready to look at the deeper causes and conditions of my trauma. And I think for most people, that's the way it needs

to be. I think for other people, like I think about for my mom, I think that unless they deal with that right away, they're not going to be able to get any sobriety under their belt. And I think for people who are, and I think this is really important. And I like to share this when I'm in meetings. I was in a, I was asked to speak in a meeting that was a basically like a dual diagnosis type A.A. meeting. But I shared that. I think it's important for people who are habitual relapsers who can't get it. It might just be that, it might be that like you have to confront that shit first head on right away or you're not going to be able to get any time under your belt. And I think about, too, I think about like a fourth and a fifth step and how

re-traumatizing that can be for so many people. Yeah. I would imagine it's hard for you to have a relationship though with your parents who haven't done the same work that you have or maybe aren't in the same place of understanding that you are. It's heartbreaking. And like they're proud of me. Like when I, when they found out that I was going to do this, my mom at first she was like, can you please not bring up me, me and your dad? And I was like, well, this is something that I've thought a lot about. And I said, I think it's important for me to share about my childhood. And I said, but the thing that I make sure to emphasize is that coming from a loving family, and a dysfunctional family are not mutually exclusive.

100%. And also that this didn't start with them, you know. But what's really, what's been interesting is that initially, you know, I didn't share about anything that was kind of presently going on. Because I would say the five years leading up to me, starting the podcast was, you know, was a lot more kind of abusive and crazy than it was during my childhood. But I was kind of out of respect for them, just not really. allude to certain things. But as certain things have gone on, like, I've just opened up more about

it, just because I think it's important for people to hear. And I'm not worried about my parents, like, listening to it or somebody telling them about it. But that's the thing, too, is like, they are proud of me. I know that they're proud of me, but they can't, they can't go there. But, like, how much would I love if they were able to be like, hey, I just listened to your episode? It was really interesting when they said, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, like, I crave that genuine curiosity from them, but they're just not capable. Mind Happy is a lifestyle and wellness brand centered on thoughtful creativity to help people craft fulfilling moments, connections, and self-care rituals through purposeful play.

Visit MindHapy.com and use the code Home 15, that's H-O-M-E-1-5, for 15% off your first monthly subscription. It's hard to be that person that goes first and is like, I'm going to do something different, especially when other people aren't joining you on that. But I want to hone in on like what you just said because I think it's an important point that like dysfunction can exist in loving families. I often hear that rebuttal from parents of like, well, I loved my kids a lot. And you can love your kids a lot and still deal with things like addiction, homelessness,

poverty, all these things that are not necessarily personal individual failings on any level, but they do cause dysfunction for the child. And there's still things that we have to talk about and heal from. And that can be a very difficult thing to understand, I think, when we talk about parenting. Absolutely. And I think in a lot of ways, like the more benign, subtle forms of dysfunction are even more sort of insidious and harder to deal with because people have no idea. They have no idea that what they experienced was trauma and that it's impacting their lives. Yeah, we know so much more now about how that stuff impacts kids than we did, you know, even 10, 15 years ago where the prevailing thought was like you had to be beat

and significantly harmed or sexually abused as a child to experience any negative consequences of childhood. And now we know, of course, that these things can be much more insidious or things like emotional abuse, emotional neglect, you know, can have a negative impact on a child. And that means that people who didn't know better at the time have to kind of know better now and take accountability for that and work on it, which is hard when you see that your parents can't do that. This month, we're talking about parents who can't apologize, which was bringing me back to a post of yours that I had read where you talked about growing up in an act as if nothing happened family, you know, a family where there was a lot of

pretending or like modeling avoidance, dismissing emotions. And I found this really interesting comment on this post that I wanted to read you because I think it gives insight into how people think about this. Oh God, this was the comment that I said that this was gaslighting and this was the one that people went nuts on? Yeah. I think so. because it was at the top, and I was like, oh, I've heard this a lot. Like, it doesn't seem like gaslighting. They seemed like good parents trying to protect their kids from their issues in the relationship, which has nothing to do with the kids. You were eavesdropping, and they probably didn't know you were there. Why would they talk to you about their fighting and bring it up at breakfast? Did you ask them

about their fighting? Good parents would never offer up their problems to their kids. Now, if they do it in front of you all the time, that's totally different. And, you know, this person goes on to say, I'm sorry you to experience that. But there's this incorrect belief that, like, if the fighting is happening behind a door, the kid doesn't experience the consequences, right? So I'd love to hear kind of how you came to the realization of this pattern of, like, acting as if nothing happened or denial within your own family. Well, I think, first of all, I realized after I made that post that, like, I can understand this person's comment, right? But it's not, it's, there's so much more to the story that they don't get, right? And for me, I was, I was heavily brought into it all, right?

Because my mom's alcoholism was a secret from the rest of the world. And my dad used me, like, essentially as his therapist. So I was being brought into it. Well, first of all, I realized that, like, I think my first addiction was to, like, the chaos and dysfunction within my home. And I would just sit on the steps and listen to them fight. And I would get, like, a high from it, you know? Like, I think some kids would go in their room, cover their ears, so upset, but I was like a moth to a flame. Like, I needed to hear every single word. And I think it made me feel safe in a way to know everything that was going on. But I mean, the way that it worked was like, right? Like huge fights, cursing. I'm getting a divorce. And then the next morning,

it's as if nothing ever happened. And so that's, it's interesting. I was thinking about this because for a lot of kids, they don't know what's going on, right? Like, they're not aware. that alcoholism is going on. Like, they have no idea that parents aren't talking to them about it at all. And so they're filling in the blanks and they are assuming, right, that it's about them because that's what we do as kids, right? It's way too scary to think that the problem is our parents because they're the one that are responsible for our survival, our livelihood.

So we'll make it about us. Well, my experience was different in the sense that I knew what was going on. The problems were being discussed. But there was no solution, right? It was just around and around and around and around and around. Yeah. Unless it was me, right? Right.

Then there was some collaboration on a solution. But I do think a lot of kids, a lot of adults can relate to that feeling of hearing the fighting, knowing it was happening, experiencing the tension, walking on eggshells within the home, but not really being given full access to problem and maybe sometimes being brought in, like you said, being parentified, acting as a therapist for your parents and how that can almost be worse than like disclosing what's going on because then as a child you don't have the ability to create like a consistent narrative. So you're blaming yourself. Like you said, you're trying to save your parents. You're engaging in

this fantasy. That there's a way that you can fix all of this. And that's scary for a kid. or like you have said, you're becoming the problem as a way to distract and manifest some of that pain within you so that they have something to focus on. And I don't know if some kids, and maybe you could speak to this, do some kids actually consciously think like this is because of me? Like, is it always unconscious? Because I never once had that, like, I never once had that thought. Like, I never once had the thought like that this is because of me. Or I never once had the thought that my mom's not getting sober because she doesn't love me enough, you know, like that never once crossed my mind, ever. Yeah, that's interesting. You know,

I think it depends on like personality, temperament, how kids internalize things. But that's definitely, especially with addiction, a recurring theme that I have heard throughout my career of like, if my mom loved me, she would get sober. If my mom cared, she would do this. And they kind of create this narrative of like, I am defective and unlovable. And so that is why this person will not change for me. When you and I both know that addiction is not about lack of love for the child a lot of the time. It's so much more nuanced than that. Well, what's so interesting for me is that like it wasn't until, I don't know, maybe I had six years sober. Like I truly believed that eventually my mom was going to get sober because she loved

me so much. You know, like I truly, I knew I was convinced that eventually she would get it. I just knew it. It's a powerful fantasy. Yeah. And so I just remember, I just remember the moment that I realized that there was nothing that I could do or say. You know, like I was convinced. I was always convinced that there was something that I would be able to do or say eventually to get her to stop drinking and I remember I was in my car I was about to go into a meeting myself and I was just yelling at her at the top of my lungs and I got off the phone and I felt like shit and I realized that all this was doing was hurting me you know that like this what I just said to her would have absolutely no impact on her and I just feel like shit for everything that I just said yeah yeah

was that freeing for you at all to like release that feeling that you could change her yes but also Yeah, it was, but then with that came backlash, right? Because that's when I had to say to my dad, stop calling me every single time there's an incident with mom. And so then that's when the backlash happens, right? And this is, this is such a horrible and sad element of this whole thing, too, is that like the person who is the whistleblower, the person who is acknowledging what's going on in the home, like they then become the problem. And the rest of the family attack. and I'll share this one experience that I had that really sums this up. So my mom was coming to see me in San Francisco. She had tickets for Hamilton. We had all these amazing things planned. And I knew, I knew at this point that it's a crapshoot, like as to whether or not this will be a good weekend at all.

But I got to the point where it was like, okay, if we can have a nice time together, like, I'll take it, you know? But let's not have our expectations too high. So I get a call from the Delta flight attendant. Like I guess as soon as her plane hit the ground, he's like, your mom's drunk. I've been having to take care of her the whole flight. She can't walk. What do you want me to do with her?

And I was like, well, call the police or call 911 or something, you know, and he wasn't willing to do that. And so basically, long story short, like I got our hotel, whatever. I told her. I said, hey, we can still have a nice weekend together. But I'm just letting you know that I'm not going to spend any time with you, like, have you been drinking. we spent one hour together, one hour. And I know that that's not what she wants, right? I know that.

I know that my mom was nothing more than to have a really nice weekend with me. And so it was like three days of her, it was horrible. And my dad was, so she was in Florida. My dad was in Tahoe, weirdly. I talked to my therapist. I said, I feel like my dad needs to go back to Florida. Like this is, I don't want to get involved, but this is also like a medical emergency. Like she's been drinking around the clock and I feel like I need to say something to him about that. So I did. Of course, he did not take that well. He lashed out at me. Then I find out after my mom leaves, my grandmother calls me. And she's like, how's the trip? Meanwhile, my mom's only brother had died from alcoholism a couple years prior to that. And I didn't want to say anything to upset my grandma. But then she said,

your mom's coming this weekend. And I knew I couldn't put my grandma on that situation because the last time my mom was there, she was driving a rental car. She went to Target. She fell in the parking lot and knocked herself out and somebody had to call 911, you know, and here's my 80-year-old grandmother who has Parkinson's. And I was just like, listen, Grandma, like, it was not good. And I can't have her come for your birthday. I'll come instead. You know, and so then I called my mom. I said, listen, I love you. I don't think you're a bad person. I just think you're sick. And I'm going to go visit Grandma and said. So my mom's pissed off at me. My dad's pissed off of me. The next morning, I wake up from a text from my mom, it says, we have changed all the locks on the house in Tahoe and you are

no longer welcome there anymore. And so that's what this, that's the perfect example of what this is, right? The person who is, you know, it's, here's the thing, and this is what I talk about with my therapist, and I think that this is important for people to understand. Like, I don't get involved in, um, in the disease. Like, I try to, there's a level of detachment and, but at the same time, I'm also not going to participate in the family denial. you know so it's like balancing the two it's like yeah there's nothing i can do but i'm also not going to pretend like there's nothing going on i think that makes a lot of sense and it's hard to participate in denial when it's so glaringly obvious you know that there's something going on

and it's hard to be framed as like the villain in that story you know that you just shared the last thing I wanted to ask you about was, you know, this month I mentioned inside the calling home community, we're talking about parents who won't apologize. And I'd love to hear in your experience working with adult children and their issues, like what you think adult children need to do or should do if they are not getting an apology from their parents about things they feel that they should apologize for. And how can they move forward without that recognition. Okay, so like everybody, like the like the amount of people who actually get an apology is so slim, right? Yep. It's really hard. I mean, you know, I think

that's all like inner child work, becoming our own loving parent, all that stuff. You know, it's giving our self. It's essentially like telling our inner child or inner teenager, saying the words to them that, you know, that they need to hear from. from our parents, but the other part of it, too, is like, it's always going to sting, you know? Like, I don't, I don't know if it's really ever going to completely, like, go away. Like, it just hurts. It's hard. I think as much as you can, because the fact of the matter is, is like, they're just not capable, right?

Like, it has nothing to do with us not being good enough or us not being loved. like they literally are just incapable of seeing it, of saying it, but at the same time, it's for that inner child, it's hard for them to really understand that and grasp that. So I think it's constantly like reassuring them here, telling ourselves the words that we need to hear. But at the same time, I think it's always going to hurt a little bit. It's always going to sting a little bit. I totally agree with you. Thank you so much for, sharing that. I think that's helpful advice. Well, I have loved having this conversation with you. I appreciate you being vulnerable and sharing your personal story and the work that you've done on

this. I'd love if you could share with the calling home community, where they can find you, and anything that you have coming up for yourself. So you can find adult child anywhere. And my Instagram and TikTok is at Adult Child Pod. And then I also have my own community. So I call it the shit show. So what? I found was like, I was having a hard time finding good quality, like adult child groups. I feel like a lot of them were kind of doomy and gloomy. And so I created my own. So it's, you know, it's not, it's an acquired taste, but it's a place where we can bring in a lot of like humor and laugh at our experiences. It's people who are okay with saying the word fuck. It's a level of

like vulnerability and honesty that I've never experienced before. And I think it's like, because the vulnerability and honesty that I lead with. So you can find that in any of my spaces too. It's the shit show we meet four times a week. It's really a special group. Awesome. I love that. And I think there's a lot of people that listen to this podcast that could benefit from that kind of space. Thank you again so much for being here. And I hope we can connect again soon. I hope you all enjoyed that episode with Andrea, and you can definitely find more about her on the Adult Child podcast. Just as a reminder, we are wrapping up our module on adult children of parents who will not

apologize. If you couldn't join this month, that's okay. All of the content will still be up on the website forever. So you can always go to www. calling home.co and join the Emotional Home Proven Association or the Family Cycle Breakers Club to access all of the really great content that we have about parents who will not apologize. Thank you all for listening and I'll see you next time.