CALLING HOME with Whitney Goodman, LMFT - You, Your Husband, and His Mother with Dr. Tracy Dalgleish

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

Whitney interviews Dr. Tracy Dalgleish, author of the new book "You, Your Husband, and His Mother” about navigating mother-in-law and daughter-in-law relationships. They discuss why this dynamic is so challenging, the scapegoating of daughters-in-law, triangulation of husbands/partners, the difference between setting boundaries and being controlling, and a few practical strategies for surviving the holidays together. Connect with Dr. Tracy: https://www.drtracyd.com/ Preorder her new book: https://amzn.to/4hixF49 00:00 Why the Mother-in-Law Dynamic Is So Common 04:44 The Abandonment Wound 07:04 The Scapegoating of Daughters-in-Law 12:01 Abusive Daughter-In-Laws? 18:54 The Husband's Critical Role in the Triangle 24:09 Death by a Thousand Paper Cuts 28:24 Psychological Conflict Between Women 32:25 Practical Boundaries and Mindset Shifts for the Holidays Whitney Goodman is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT) and the founder of Calling Home, a membership community that helps people navigate complex family dynamics and break harmful cycles. Have a question for Whitney? Call in and leave a voicemail for the show at 866-225-5466 Join the Family Cyclebreakers Club⁠⁠ Follow Whitney on Instagram | sitwithwhit Follow Whitney on YouTube | @whitneygoodmanlmft ⁠⁠Order Whitney’s book, Toxic Positivity⁠⁠ Learn more about ad choices. Visit podcast.choices.com/adchoices This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. Built for breakthroughs, with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at OnePeloton.ca. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Calling Home podcast. Today, I am joined by Dr. Tracy Dalglish. She's a

clinical psychologist, couples therapist, and the author of the upcoming book, You, Your Husband, and his mother. Create a healthy relationship with your mother-in-law and your spouse in five simple steps. It is coming out on November 4th. That means that you can pre-order it now and get it delivered on the day that it's published. It is such a good book. I got to have early access to it, and I think after you listen to this episode, you are definitely going to order it. Dr. Tracy has spent years helping couples and families navigate some of the toughest relational challenges, and you may know her from her book, I Didn't Sign Up for This, or her top 100 parenting podcast, Dear Dr. Tracy. Her work has been featured everywhere, and her new book

takes on one of the most common but rarely discussed sources of conflict in long-term relationships, the tension between women and their mothers-in-law. I know that this topic has been so popular with this audience. I've done a couple of episodes on, like, toxic mother-in-laws before. So this is the episode for you. I am thrilled to welcome Dr. Tracy to the show. I told you this, you know, when we just spoke recently, but I think that my episodes about mother-in-laws, especially like, quote-unquote,

toxic mother-in-laws have been some of the most popular on this show. And so I know that there are a lot of people dealing with this dynamic that are listening. And I'd like to know, you know, why do you think this is such a common, difficult dynamic, especially for women in heterosexual marriages? When it comes to looking at this specific dynamic, and a lot of people navigating family dynamics have come to me saying, why didn't you title the book her mother? And the system in the book is going to help everybody with extended families. But there really is something unique about the mother-in-law and daughter-in-law relationship. And there are a few specific pieces in here that we can think about. One is women today doing something differently.

We know more. We're going to therapy. We're aware of generational cycle. and patterns that we want to break. We also are showing up in our marriages differently. We're parenting in a different way. We are dividing the mental load more evenly. We're attempting to do that. We're showing up in the workplace in a different way. And so a lot of women today are saying,

I don't want to do it the same way as you did. And what you did doesn't work for us. And so right there, this creates this tension between two women. And of course, women do tend to be the kinkeepers. They're the ones who hold families together. And so oftentimes when it comes to holidays, you know, thinking of the holiday coming up, mothers-in-law, moms will text their daughters and daughters-in-law because those are the communicators most often. And today, a lot of women who I've worked with have said, I don't want to hold all the families together. It's exhausting.

I can't do this. And also, if there are these toxic dynamics that show up, it makes it even more complex. So that's the first piece, but I also believe, you know, coming from an attachment lens, coming from our core needs and longings, I do believe insecurities show up here around role changes, especially for mothers-in-law, that they question, what's my role here? They don't feel like they're being turned to or leaned on, especially as the adult children and adult child-in-law are having their own kids. they question, you know, what's my own identity, especially if a woman has identified herself largely as mom and not nurtured other parts of her life. And then we also bring in, I mean, this is kind of a greater picture. And I know you talk about this a lot in your community, which is around those toxic family patterns and dynamics that have been there for a long time.

I think that all makes perfect sense. And especially sort of as a daughter-in-law looking at your mother-in-law and being like, wow, this is a big transition point for her to not be seen maybe as mom or as the one that's being relied upon the most. I think especially as sons maybe start to go to their wives more for advice or emotional support, like some of the things that they may have relied on their mothers for. I also find that at least in some cultures, the husbands tend to follow their wives to where their family is. I mean, I know that's true for me. And that can be a huge thing as well, that there's this like abandonment sort of wound of like, now you are joining that family. And it's so interesting when you even

say it as an abandonment wound because sometimes if we pull back the layers and the complexities of this, we might even see a more distant family pattern from mom and son. to begin with. And we even think about how girls and boys are taught to deal with emotions and needs and setting boundaries. So many women come to my practice in their 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond, having already been well rehearsed in boundary setting. And most men show up in my practice, especially when it comes to this issue, around 33, 35, 37, when they've got married or they've had their first baby because it's the first time that instead of just using avoidance, distance, compartmentalizing or dismissing and being like, oh, that's just mom. Like, oh, mom sending me a text

wanting to go to family dinner again. Like, oops, forgot to respond, right? That's a pattern that I commonly see. Now instead, mom saying to her daughter-in-law, well, when are you coming? And then we're in this triangle relationship that so often shows up and creates. conflicts conflict. And so then these patterns were already there. And now she wants something different because she sees that she's not getting what the other family is getting. And that comparison trap is so tricky. Totally. Yeah. I think that you're so right that like those dynamics already existed. But now there's sort of this spotlight on them and the ability to compare, you know, to whatever else is going on.

A dynamic that I see a lot when it comes to estrangement is estranged parents of, let's say, a son saying everything was totally fine until this evil daughter-in-law stepped into the picture and now she has taken my son, corrupted him, and turned him against us. And I'm wondering, like, do you see that a lot? And what do you think is actually happening in these moments? I do see that a lot. And it's one of the, I walk through six types of mothers-in-law that throughout my 20 years, near 20 years of working with this dynamic, working with couples, either through research or therapy, I see that there is one group specifically that's this blamer mother-in-law type

and this blamer type scapegoats the daughter-in-law and says we didn't have these problems before you. And for daughters and law, I think it's so important to remember that as you just said, Whitney, this dynamic existed before you came along. There were things that were not being vocalized beforehand. And so then along that pathway to estrangement, because it doesn't just happen at one event, these are these multiple moments, that then son is saying, Mom, you can't show up unannounced. You need to text me first. We need a plan. Or he's saying, mom, you know, it's not okay to make that kind of comment to my wife, potentially, that we would hope that the partners together can do that. And for for in-laws, it's confusing because their son maybe

has never done this before. And so what do we do when we have uncomfortable information coming to us? Most people don't, well, no, let's do it this way. We do one of two things when we're uncomfortable. We go to internalizations and we say, it's all about me. I'm a bad person. I'm filled with shame. I'm collapsing inwards into this kind of frozen state that I'm just so bad and awful. Or we externalize. And externalization is they're the problems. They're doing those things. This isn't me. Look at what they're doing. And so if a mother-in-law is trying to grapple with, why is my son doing this? then she's going to go to one of those. And most often it is easier, so much easier to blame and to put the problem outward,

rather than slowing down and doing this self-reflective piece, which we know also too when we look at generational patterns, we're seeing this pattern of emotionally immature parents and this inability to be self-reflective. to take ownership and accountability to repair those hard moments and then nurture the relationship going forward. I want to get to those six types of mother-in-law because I think that's so important. But first I want to ask you, do you think you can help us understand the difference maybe

between a partner that is truly being abusive, isolating someone? they really are a problem because that does happen and a partner or a daughter-in-law who's really just maybe pointing out issues in the family first time there's been a voice like that one that you just described. I even want to caveat that conversation to if we are feeling pulled between having to choose who are we then who are like as yourself as that partner who are you looking at to put the problem to because unfortunately what I see happen so often between couples is it's easier and I'm going to intentionally use him. It's easier for him to go to his wife and say it's just mom. It's not a

problem. Like it's stop. And instead of going to his mom to set those boundaries. But I think your question here was more about what about the daughter-in-law. Can we talk about someone who's reflecting these patterns? And can I find that a lot of people are sort of, like they argue back with me almost to this sense of like, you know these abusive partners do exist. And I'm like, yeah. Of course they do. But I find that we are really labeling like a wide range of behavior as the abusive daughter-in-law that took your son rather than being self-reflective. And I'm wondering if there's a way, even for daughters-in-law to sort of check in with themselves and be like, am I being like controlling and wrong and stealing him from his family?

Because when you get told that narrative, it's confusing. Yeah. Yeah. And I often do kind of the reasonable person test. What would a reasonable person experience in this moment? What would they do? What would your friend do? What would your friend tell you?

And when we think about this abuse and manipulation, there is this. constant outward blame refusal to look at how you're contributing to the dynamic. It's hostility and contempt. It's more than just saying your mom is hurting me or your mom doesn't like me. It's more than just pointing out behaviors. And even to, you know, I can think of, gosh, I can just think of so many of the women I've worked with at their breaking points in the postpartum period because of course they're not sleeping. Their worlds have been turned upside down. They're vulnerable. And so then a mother-in-law comes along and says, look, your wife is crazy. She just yelled at me. And I'm looking at the whole picture thinking,

no, this woman is so vulnerable. She has hormones surging through her body and she's feeling a threat to her baby. So yes, she's going to say, give me back my baby and get out of my house. And that's not someone who is being abusive. that's a woman trying to survive. And I think, you know, that line is so fine because it's like how much time are we going to spend labeling and putting down women and not believing their experiences? Yeah. And that's so tricky. And I know you talk about this a lot as well, which is the, okay, so here is this mother-in-law or extended family member. You are the parent. And even when your child is 40. Your child is not responsible for your feelings. Your child's not responsible for your

marriage or your financial situation or the choices you make. That's still a parent-child dynamic. And so then expecting them, and I hear this from women who come into my community who are mothers-in-law, they'll say to me, why are you trying to tear apart families? I get that all the time. That's not what, and I know you do. And that's not what this is. This is a. This is a. about giving voice to women who have never been heard, who have told, don't make a stink about this. It's not that big of a deal. And to keep placating and pleasing and performing and perfecting. And that's exhausting. So it is, it's always this like, it depends. Nobody is in that lived experience. And if someone can slow things down and ask themselves, you know, what, what do I do when

things get hard. And maybe there is a moment where I could do something different. Most likely that person is not abusive. Right. Right. The abusive person is rarely self-reflective. And so I think for daughter-in-laws that are sitting around spinning their wheels, like, what am I doing to make her not like me? How can I be better? Like, you're being reflective. And that's to me as a sign exactly like you're saying. It's so interesting because I was at dinner the other night with another couple. and my husband, and we were talking about what it feels like to be parents of very young children and sort of having this conversation of like, how do we make sure that we don't forget what this feels like so that when our own kids have kids, we can remember that feeling

because I think, I don't know if you feel this too. Like, to me, that's such a big part that's missing in these dynamics generationally is like this lack of, like, felt like body sense of like, what was it like for me at that time? How do I remember feeling postpartum and like, what did I need? And when you're so disconnected from that, I think it's so hard to think about your daughter-in-law or your son. It's, I don't know. Is that something you see?

Yes. So in the book, I have this section to help readers become the mother-in-law they want to be. walk you through three different phases. And I just love this section because it is such a common question that I know we're asking ourselves, how do we not repeat these experiences? How do we show up differently? And I believe that the awareness that people are already having right now is part of that solution. You will be different because you are tuned into what your experience is like. You are slowing things down. You're modeling this to your kids. You're building a different relationship. And that is in contrast to being numbed out, being disconnected to feelings, being unaware,

or not so much unaware, but also unwilling. When I think of that, I think of these long generational lines of denial and how experiences and feelings and needs were denied. You think of the mom standing over her child that says, stop feeling sorry for yourself. You know, she's repeating that cycle. she's saying what she heard. And so if we are tuned into our children, that attunement that we talk about in therapy, we're attuning to our feelings, to our clients, to others, you do that with your child.

Now when they're kids, I believe that's going to be this lifelong skill that you're practicing and you'll do it again when you're in that position. And so we will show up differently. But I do believe that there is this missing, and this is part of the conflict and why this book is so needed is that there's this inability to openly discuss expectations and desires and needs without completely personalizing it and attaching yourself to it. So that when a daughter-in-law says mother-in-law, you know, we want to build this relationship with you. We want you to be involved. We cannot come on Thanksgiving Thursday. I know you want us to all be there on Thursday. And

that's not going to work for our family. Instead of, and I'm using my hands for listeners, like instead of this like mother-in-law lumping on top of her daughter's feelings and making it all about her, she can step out of that and say, oh, my feelings hurt. That would make sense because I had this hope and this expectation. And also what a healthy family does is they turn those adult children towards each other. They turn the adult son and his wife toward each other to nurture their marriage, they understand that their entire relationship is not hinged on one holiday event happening the way that it's, in quotes and doing quotations, the way it's always been. It's such a good point. And I think that this is a perfect time to sort of pivot into the role

of the spouse. And I know in the title of your book, you know, it's the husband or the partner is right in the middle. And I assume that that is by design. And I'm curious if you could tell us about, like, what is the partner's role in building this healthy relationship? Oh, my goodness. Yes, I just love that you've pulled apart the title and how the book cover looks with the triangles and how it's so intentional to see that a lot of times people will say, so sons will say husbands, I'll use husband and wife. Husbands will say, you're putting me in the middle between you and my mom. On the flip side, wives will also say, you're putting me in the middle between you and your mom. And so when I think about the role, and I do believe that this is

what's changed in the last 20 years compared to 40 years ago, is that the role of nurturing your family is each adult child's responsibility. Unless you have explicitly communicated and agreed that your partner is going to take on that role. And a lot of times we fall into marriages without having said, what's this going to look like? I remember working with one couple. We talked about roles as they were parenting and she kind of had this aha moment of, oh, I'm doing exactly what my mother did. I'm doing all of the things. And he's doing exactly what he saw his father to. So we fall into those roles. And so I really do believe there's this collaborative process that can happen in the home between your chosen family. That's you and your partner. And we're not

abandoning your family. But instead, we're choosing to prioritize the needs and the feelings at home. And then in most situations, not all, this really depends on the relationship that you have with your mother-in-law and also your mother-in-law type. But then you go to her as the adult child. You're the one to communicate with her. You're the one to nurture that bond. When she texts you, You text her back because that's what relationships are built on, communication and contact and connection. With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score you a spot trackside. So being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime. That's the powerful backing of Amex.

Pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race. Turns and conditions apply. Learn more at MX.ca slash Y Annex. You talked about this a little bit at the beginning to like sort of this cultural expectation or often gendered expectation that the woman will step in to those roles. And I know I found myself doing that in my own marriage and my husband and I come from different religious backgrounds that include like different holidays and all of that. And I was like, why am I spearheading this holiday that I never celebrated, you know,

in my whole life? I don't know anything about it. And somehow I took on this role being like, it's my job to teach my kids about this and we've had conversations about that. And so I think it can just be so assumed from everybody. And the second you decide to say, like, I'm going to step back from this. It's not always a rejection of like, I don't want this included in my life. I don't want to do it.

It's more just about who's best suited to take on this role. and I think in a lot of ways your husband mediating that relationship and also aligning as a teammate with their partner can make things move so much more smoothly. But I want to tap into like this idea of choosing sides that you just brought up. And I'm wondering for any daughter-in-law is listening to this, how can they talk about that with their husbands when they're taking this very passive, I don't want to get involved approach. You indicate to your husband. When you do nothing, you are part of the problem. And it is this section in the book that is almost like this tear out section at the back that you can pass to

your husband so that he hears from me the five things he needs to know about this. Because here's the thing. Doing nothing is like saying, I'm allowing this to happen. And also, too, when your partner comes to you and she has this experience, it doesn't mean that, and again, depending on what she's saying, but she comes to you, you can see the anger in her body. That triggers your defensiveness. And you go into what most people will do for their parents. They go into defensiveness. They protect their histories, their childhood, their memories, the people who raise them. And so then husbands say, It's just my mom. She didn't mean it that way. It's not that bad. And that right there ends up dismissing the other person. And that's where couples then get even more stuck in this cycle.

Because what happens then when somebody feels dismissed and minimized and denied of their feelings, most people lawyer up. We say, okay, let me give you 10 more examples of this. And he says, no, no, no, it's not a big deal. And then she goes, I'm going to lawyer up and to give you 10 more examples, right? Instead of this kind of separating from my wife is having this experience and my mom is still my mom. And I can hold both of those things to be true that this is not about choosing sides. This is about validating my partner's experience.

And because it's a we, we then have to find a way to work through this together. But doing nothing doesn't help. Right. Do you think this is ever another, like, case of, I've tolerated this from my mother my whole life, so you better learn how to do it do. Oh, yes. Yeah. It's, it's the, that's just mom. It's not a big deal. And, and sometimes people can get to a place and say, you know what? Okay. Thank you. Like, I'm going to really work on not taking it personal. Every time your mom comments on our feeding, sleeping choices with baby, I'm going to say, mm-hmm, and then go to the bathroom and splash water on my face and not engage in that. Or I'm going to say, you know, this is how we're choosing

to parent our child. It's not a conversation I'm willing to have with you. And so we can find this position of agency. And at the same time, there are varying degrees of behavior in here where it's not okay for a husband to say that's just how my mom is. If you're part, partner, it's like asking your partner to show up to death by a thousand paper cuts. Her arms are bleeding out at the table and you're asking her to still sit there at family dinner while everybody criticizes her and talks about her body and the parenting choices. And end, and those are the experiences that so many people have. It's so true. And like, just because you've been able to ignore it for so long or it look different, you know, in your life, I think that it can feel

very different for your partner, especially because they don't have the context and the experience. And sometimes the tactics that are being utilized, like woman to woman, I think sometimes can be a lot more, like, what's the word I'm looking for? Just like under the radar, like you don't notice them as much. I'm so glad you added that in here because, I mean, I even look at my daughter. She's just entered grade three. and the girl world is so much harder than the boy world. And we know, developmentally, girls develop emotionally and socially faster than boys do.

And boys, it would be the rough and tumble. One kid jumped on the other kid, knocked him down like you could see it. But for girls, it's like this psychological warfare. And so then we move into this power dynamic at times as well, right? So here's the mother-in-law saying, I know my son best. I was there when he got his first soccer goal. I watched him go off to college.

I did, I put his underwear in his drawer for 18 years. Don't do it for 18 years. Right. But it's that dynamic there of saying, I know him best. And it's just this undercurrent of insidious remarks. It's so much easier. If you're, if, you know, I would. not want this, but if there was physical abuse, if your mother came in and pushed your wife out of the

way and went and grabbed baby, that you could clearly say, whoa, but oftentimes these are paper cuts, but it's not once. It's patterns and they're hurtful and they lead to experiences like daughters-in-law ending up feeling like the outsider. They're not involved in the family. I've had women tell me I go to my mother-in-law's house and she whispers nasty comments to me like you're not really are you're not really my son's baby's parent you're not really his family and whispers these comments and then when she goes to her husband and says your mom says these things to me he's like no she doesn't no let's you're making that up she would never do that yeah he doesn't want to believe that and that's a defense mechanism yeah

totally i think so so much of that psychological warfare is very like you have to be perceptive of it right of making a little offhand comment like oh you're feeding them that oh you're gonna you're not going to put socks on the baby like when that happens constantly over time with someone that you don't you don't know well you don't have a good relationship with like it starts to eat at you i think it's it's very different than i think how men communicate typically, you know, within families when they're upset. We show up in these families wanting to be liked. We want connection.

We want the village. We want to welcome people in to support us. And so a lot of women will try to push through that and say, okay, it's not a big deal. Oh, well, maybe not. And then again, it happens and happens and happens until it's like, is it me? Am I crazy making here? Or is this okay? And I also think there's this movement where women are saying, I don't want to keep tolerating this.

And I want, and you and I talked about this on my podcast episode in the sense of I am connected to other people who are going to then fill that need for me without cutting me down. And I am going to choose then to nurture that connection rather than having to show up at my mother-in-law's house every Sunday just to be told that I'm doing 10 things wrong. Yeah. It's making me think that I'm such a big believer in the reality that most daughter-in-laws want to have a good relationship with their mother-in-law, right? I think it's exceedingly rare that we have these people with, and they exist, but it's not the norm and they're certainly not listening to this podcast that have, you know, severe pathology that are just like, I want to take down my mother-in-law and I get pleasure out of that. I think that that is quite rare. Right. And so for, you know, all these, for any daughter-in-laws listening, I think that feel like maybe I have become a villain or acting like someone that I don't want to be. And I know you talk about this villainization in your book. I think you have to go back to that idea of like, I don't want it to be like this.

I desire for something better. And that doesn't mean I'm always going to get it or that it's achievable, but I am coming. from that place. Yes, just trusting your own sense of worthiness and enoughness. And here's what I say about toxic family members is that you have to sit in accepting that someone else will not know your truth. And that is so uncomfortable, especially when we think of how these dynamics play out, that likely you've spent your whole life trying to get your family to see you.

and this this is at our core these are our core needs can you see me can you connect with me that was the point i was trying to make earlier is that daughters-in-law i have seen most like all i have not seen any come in saying i'm lighting the torch i'm going to burn down my mother-in-law's house that's not what we're doing we're trying to build relationships so that we stay connected and grounded to ourselves so we can then parent our toddlers and be connected and grounded with them And so then when I set these boundaries, it's not to cut you out. It's not to hurt you or to say you're an evil person, but it's for me to stay grounded within myself and that most people do not want to have to go down the road of, like,

they're not banging down the door and, you know, coming out to say I'm out to get you. It's just fun, an enjoyable way to spend your time. And I think like there's so many other better things people want to be doing. doing, they also don't want to bring that into their marriage. Nobody wants that to have to be a central part of it. This episode is going to come out right around when we have Thanksgiving in the U.S. And so I'm wondering if you could leave people, you know, with who are maybe dreading an upcoming holiday or family visit or trying to set a boundary. Like, what is one mindset shift they can have and maybe a practical boundary that they can think about in stating.

So for people to remember that this system was in place before you joined the family and that we know families are consistent and predictable. So if you've been to the family event before and they bring up politics at the table, they're likely going to do it again. And so you can then prepare yourself. This is whether you do it with your partner or you do it for yourself, but this is also about you having that sense of agency and power. And that's really what this book is about, is helping you to find that again. And deciding, what do I want to do in that moment? So the moment that I know it's going to happen or a comment about your parenting choice

or a comment about bodies, whatever tends to show up for you, what am I going to do in that moment? Am I going to say, this is not a conversation I want to have and excuse yourself to the bathroom and splash water in your face? is it about looking over at your partner because you've agreed that you both see this comment happen and, you know, maybe he comes and squeezes your shoulder or you give each other a wink or you text your partner saying, can you get my baby bag? Right? Like something ahead of time. And then at the end, I want you to find a way to reconnect with your partner, to feel close again,

not to get in the car and to vent and say, oh, see, your mother is so crazy. It's more of a look what we did well together. We were in this as a team. I think just saying that together we're on the same team is so powerful. Yeah, I love that because that approach is empowering. It includes like planning so that you feel equipped and like you can handle it and then also prioritizes that collaborative nature, which I think once you have that down and you're doing this as a team, it makes it so much easier to, like, feel with any craziness that comes at you because you don't feel like you're alone. And I love that about your book. So I want to thank you so much for coming on the show and for being here. I know we mentioned a couple of things like the vault

method and the types of mother-in-laws that we didn't get to. And some of that, I think, is on purpose because I feel like I want people to go and read it in your book and buy your book because it is such a wonderful resource. So I appreciate you coming on here and sharing. Thank you so much, Whitney. Thank you for having me in your community. And I'm just so excited for people to grab this book. Thank you so much for listening to this conversation with Dr. Tracy Dalglish. I hope it gave you some insight into navigating those tricky in-law dynamics and building the kind of family relationships that truly support your marriage. You can read more about this in her book. And it is now available for pre-sale, anywhere books are sold. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to

subscribe to the calling on podcast so you never miss a new conversation. Leave us a review, subscribe, like, leave us a comment. It really helps other listeners find the show and helps us keep the show going. And if you're ready to go deeper, I'd love for you to join us inside the Family Cycle Breakers Club, our membership community where we take these conversations further with resources, workshops, quizzes, horses, and support groups. You can learn more at callinghome.co. Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you on Thursday for another episode. The Calling Home podcast is not engaged in providing therapy services, mental health advice, or other medical advice or services. It is not a substitute for advice

from a qualified health care provider and does not create any therapist, patient, or other treatment relationship between you and Collin' Home or Whitney Goodman. information on this, please see Collingholm's terms of service linked in the show notes below.