Camp Gagnon - Andrew Schulz on Meeting Mark Gagnon, starting Comedy, and Untold Stories

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

🚨Make Sure To Rate Us 🌟🌟🌟🌟 🌟Andrew Schulz joins us in the tent today to reflect and look back at our friendship and all the good times we had while on tour… WELCOME TO CAMP! 🏕��Shoutout to our sponsors: Zippix, Morgan & Morgan, and BluechewDitch the cigarettes, ditch the vapes and get some nicotine infused toothpicks at https://zippixtoothpicks.com/ today. Get 10% off your first order by using the code GAGNON at checkout.👕🧢 GET YOUR CAMP DRIP HERE: https://campgoods.co/🏕️ Get Today In History Email Here (Free): https://camp.beehiiv.com/🎟️ 🎫 Comedy Tour Tickets Here: https://markgagnonlive.comTIMESTAMP:0:00 Intro1:31 ANDREW SCHULZ Is In The Tent!!!3:00 Hitler Was Misunderstood? + Big Women Need Love Too5:20 Pregnancy Sex9:33 Spending Time w/ Kids12:11 Magic Tricks + Mark Was a Frat Magician + Street Magic18:18 Is Criss Angel a Sorcerer + Carrot Top + Weirdness of Vegas 22:49 Mark First Time Meeting Schulz42:05 Schulz Building His Space In Podcasting50:10 Early Day’s In Comedy1:05:09 Schulz First Time on Rogan + Schulz WILD Outfits1:15:51 Shows In Australia + Alex Media Kicked Out of Economy+1:19:58 Finding The Brooklyn Studio + Phone Call w/ Ben Uyeda1:27:38 Early Failures + $25k Micless Setup1:32:07 Schulz Giving Mark a Raise During Covid + 1:38:00 How Alex Media Started Working Schulz + Power of Internships1:47:27 Mark Lived In a Church + Writing Jokes For Bob and Tom Show1:51:00 Long Time Friends In Comedy + Performing at MSG1:58:26 Comedy During Covid + Perfecting a Joke2:10:07 Schulz’s Monologues2:13:30 Perks of Focusing On One Thing2:16:54 Schulz New Stand Up Material2:19:10 Podcast’s Becoming The News + Filtering Controversial Views 2:44:11 What If Mark and Schulz Never Met

You, and you didn't tell this story accurately, Miles told me that you planned to open for me and then work for me, that that was all part of your design. Of course, it's in the mind. You know what I mean? I'm going to work for him. I'm going to tell him to go to this burger joint, which I know is closed. And then we're going to go to IHop and talk about Hitler until 3 in the morning. And then he's going to hire me and later get a haircut inspired by that conversation. Exactly. This guest needs no introduction. You probably know him as Andrew Schultz, but I know him as a brother, a friend.

a mentor, and really the guy that gave me my career in stand-up comedy. Typically on this show, we deep dive onto weird, strange topics from around the world and the internet. But today, Schultz has joined me in the tent to break down our story. The origin story of how we met in the first place, how I opened for him at a show where a woman had a seizure, how we became friends, how I started touring on the road with them. And we even go through some of the early tour stories, some of the funniest moments of my entire life will be explained, stories that have never been shared anywhere else. even go through how we created a Netflix show together in the middle of a global pandemic while

I was like 24 years old. This episode is a long time coming and was really, really cool for me to sit down with someone that I respect and admire so much and just truly an awesome friend. And we had an absolutely amazing time. And I really hope you guys enjoy listening to it as much as I enjoyed having it. So without further ado, sit back, relax and welcome to camp. What's up people? Welcome back to Camp. Welcome to my tent. My name is Mark Gagnon. And this is a show where we explore the most interesting, controversial, and terrifying theories from around the world. And today I've been accompanied by a dear friend, a mentor, an OG, a legend, not only in the comedy, but also the business and peddell space. My dear friend, Andrew Schultz, how are you? Hello, Mark. How are you?

Thank you so much for joining me. Dude, thanks for having me. It's been a long time coming. Yeah, I'm excited. Yeah. I can't believe it's been so long for you invite me on the podcast. For real I have to force you to be invited onto the podcast If you want to know the honest thing Yeah You've done enough

Truly you've done enough I genuinely felt like guilt I was like Don't you end up being the hero here I tried to be the good guy No no no no no I'm the good guy And now you're the good guy Actually I'm the good guy

Okay I don't know if you knew this about me But I'm actually the good guy I did every fucking podcast You couldn't open your phone Without seeing my annoying face Is that why you were doing all the podcast? We need poor people to have more money

That's what it was This is all been a ruse. And then I'm waiting. I'm doing every pod. I'm like, maybe Mark will ask me. Maybe Mark will ask me. And then you refuse to ask. So I go, yo, when am I doing camp?

I think I asked Tanya. Look. Do the campers know about Tanya? No, I try to keep her away from all the good people on the show. I'm honest. But I do want to apologize for everyone that's been on TikTok in the last month. Wait, why? Because they've just seen you nonstop.

And I didn't realize that if I had just invited you on that they could have been alleviated. Of all that stress. Yeah, I know. Oh, my bad, dude. Okay, so Hitler is misunderstood? Whoa, whoa, no. You kept on saying, let's talk about how Hitler's misunderstood. That's not what I said.

That's not what I said. You were like, there's some really cool information out there. There's two sides of every story. Yes, yes, yes, yes. There's the truth. And then there's Hitler's bad. It's very simple, okay? Okay, so is that our topic today?

No, no, no, no. What was our topic today? Well, it asked. I said, what do you want to talk? Don't put this on me. No, I said, what do you want to talk about? I knew Mark was going to do this. I was like, I said, you picked the topic.

I knew he was going to pick the most boring fucking topic. I go, you have this big thing with Hitler, you have this big thing with autism. You have all these big things with... Hitler and autism, actually. Write that down. That's a good episode. Is he into it? He had it.

Yeah, yeah, allegedly. No way. No way. Yeah, love trains. Yeah, that's like, what is more autistic than that? Okay? I guess you're right. But you had said, oh, let's talk about corporate tax policy.

I mean, walking like that is pretty fucking autistic, dude. The big goose seven? I made it. Can we get a Google Hitler goose stepping? Yeah. Or just Google the kid from Love on the Spectrum, seeing Jack Black. Because he hits a goose step like you've never seen in your life. He was fired up.

I would do that for Jack Black, though. Yeah, shout out Jack Black for doing that, man. You see Shallow Hal, you're not going to go crazy a little bit? What a great movie. Yeah, right. What a great, great movie. All time. But you said, would you want that?

What, Shallow How? Yeah, the thing about Shallow Howell that's interesting, does everybody, know the film? I can explain it. Can you? Let me go to... That's the topic. That is the topic. No, no. The philosophy shall have. You find fat girls pretty. Yeah. Right? And, but here's

the thing. It doesn't take into account that everybody else finds them fat. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. So, like, eventually, are you worried about what other people think? I guess you wouldn't be

because you see them as beautiful. And so you just don't even care. And then people tell you, they're like, she's fat, you're like, no, she's not. I forget that you've only been with your wife. This is a horrible statement. But I'm shallow hal in real life because she got pregnant. And I was like, hey, you're still beautiful. Wow.

And everyone else was like, dude, she's a fat whale. And I was like, no, she's beautiful, actually. You know what I mean? But that's the beauty of the film. It's actually about men going through pregnancy. Not a lot of people know. It's an allegory for that. Didn't you find your wife beautiful when she was pregnant?

More so. Up to what month? At one month were you like, all right. Wait, did you, can I ask you about having sex with your wife or kids? Did you guys have sex all the way through, like all 10 months? No, I mean, what does that mean? All 10 months. Yeah.

Like, no. What month were you like, we can't really do this? Once, like, because it's not that it stops is that positions get filtered away. Yeah. You know what I mean? How many were you doing? I mean, you hit the normal routine. What do you got?

I mean, you go like just, you know. What do you start at? Regular Mish. Oh, you don't start from the back, reverse? No, no, no, no. That's an ending. That's an ender. How are you going to stand and not just bust immediately?

It's obviously an end. That's a finishing, dude. You never play Mortal Kombat? Yeah, you can't hit the crossroads immediately. Yeah, of course not, dude. If you're going to do the- We're wrestling fans now. You do the pedigree at the end.

Everyone knows this. But no, so you start with Mish, okay, because it's respectful, you know, face-to-face. There's some intimacy to it. Never start Mish, yeah. Much to my wife's chagrin. You start Mish, and then you move on to like side, saddle. You know what I mean?

Side is crazy. Why? Why is that crazy? I don't know. back without the effort. I feel like I got like only a quarter of my meat in it. On side. You got to find a right.

Well, this is the thing. Like, I feel like my penis is like a, like an American girl doll. Okay. So like if it's, if it's up. Kids touch it?

No, guys. And, okay, we're gonna cut that. And we're back in. Hitler. If you,

no, no, we can't go all the way back. Okay. So if you go, if my penis is up, then I'm good. And I got,

I have, I have stamina. Okay. But the second it goes horizontal. Right. Why? I don't know Don't you dare point

What do you mean? Wow, there's so much power in this Don't don't do that Can you even show this on YouTube? I actually, I don't We had a guest that was flaunting it Oh, no, we had fathead A Chinese gangster

And he came in and he was waving it around Just the whole time like talking Holding it to his own head Put in his mouth And did YouTube flag it or something like that? Wow Yeah, yeah Cool

But as soon as my penis goes horizontal Then it's just game over Meaning you orgasm So the position that we get progressively It's like a clock It's got to wait to get down So vertical you can have more stamina Yeah

Is everyone not like this? I never accounted for that at all Because I think the muscles tighten You're saying there's more like top pressure Oh you got a sensitive head because you're not cert Also that Yeah my shit's been rubbing on fucking Levi's for 40 years Yeah of course

I don't feel anything Honestly I think the most sensitive part of my dick is the bottom For real Yeah Your dick's like the Grand Canyon It's been eroded away For real

Thousands of years You ever seen like a weight lifter's Like Dick Dick I have Can we Google a weight lifter's dick actually

While we have it This would be good Ronnie Coleman's got a base on him Not a lot of people know that His dick has traps I'm pretty sure Shabli Okay

So what boring ass topic Did you suggest for me All righty Don't skip forward guys because I am on the road, World's fastest ad read, coming at you. I'm going to be in Bangor,

Maine, Portland, Maine, Charleston, South Carolina, Strodsburg, Hoboken, Indianapolis, Buffalo, Raleigh, Poughkeepsie, Portland, Oregon, Fort Worth, Texas, Austin, Texas, Stanford, Philly,

Levittown, Chandler, Arizona, San Diego. I'm also going to be adding Toronto, Montreal, as well as Washington, D.C., and a bunch of other dates. You can get all that at the markgagnon.com.

Dates are in the description, also in probably the comments of this episode. Go see me on the road. come hang out. I'll be hanging out with everyone after the show. Come shake my hand. Call me an idiot. Whatever you want to do, I will be there. Additionally, I will be doing my one hour of stand-up comedy. I'm very proud of this hour. I'm really excited to share with you guys, and it would mean the world if everyone could come on out. And what do you wear to a show on the road? That's a great

question. You can go to campgo.com. That's right. We got merch. We got camp merch. We got hats, we got hats, hoodies, t-shirts. A lot of stuff is out of stock. Things have been selling like hot cakes, but we're going to be restocking everything in all the sizes. So you can go there right now. Get all the merch, get all the coolest clothing in the podcast game. We're going to be updating that site regularly. And if you come out to a show, I'd love to see you sporting some of the threads that we got up online. I'll see you guys there. Let's get back to the show.

Speaking of Shabli, I was going back through like flagrant episodes. Oh, God. And I was like, dude, like we were in a stream where we were just like cooking, dude, you know? And then I was like, oh yeah, we're just hammered from every single episode. Like in the summer, it was just so fun. What was it? We're like, yeah, we're blackout drunk. Yeah, we would get drunk a lot.

For five months out of these days. It was wild, huh? That's the thing we got to work. And we were like, dude, Miami was so crazy. Yeah, we're shit-faced. Should we, I mean, bring that back? At what point is it just like a sacrifice that you make? It's like working in a coal mine, you know?

I mean, it's not a sacrifice we make. Sacrifice our wives and family and children. They make the sacrifice. I guess they do. Have you seen your kid today? Not my kid, no. No, I saw him briefly at the, I take him for his nightly walk. Yeah, I love your schedule with your kid.

It's phenomenal. That part is nice. And then you got to like show them off. Yeah. I feel like I'm normalizing fatherhood. I'm trying my best. I'm like, yeah, just have a kid. It's great.

Just walk around them. It is the best. In the morning time, it's really morning and the way before bed. Yeah. And then you just walk around with them. Yeah. Got to have that you time with the baby.

Yeah. That's the best. That is the best. But then again, you know, your wife wants to hang out too. A bath time is where I shine. My wife's be stealing all my jokes from the baby. Really? To shave your delivery?

No. but like little tricks I do she tries to do and I'll come home and she's doing it with them and I'm like, like what? What's what? I don't want to, you know, I don't want to have to, you know, give away all my tricks here.

No, everyone's gonna be taking it. Yeah. Everyone's watch. Oh, fuck, I'm trying to think. I don't know what I would call it. Oh, this was like an old like, movie with the Hulk, but remember when he was like running

and then when he would jump, he would jump like states. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you remember that scene from an old movie? Is that reference makes sense? Maybe you can bring it up, Gabe. You can do something. You know, let's see what he looked up.

Google, yeah, Hulk jumping states, yes. So that's what I do. I grab my kid by the arms and then I tell her run as fast as possible and then I jump her and then she starts shopping. You're not paying for YouTube premium? Yeah, we're on a budget here. Gabe.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You guys have the most stunning podcast studio in history. There's a lot of like eagle. I'm not trying to make this about you. I'm not trying to make this about your boy, but there's like a lot of, What do you mean? Whoa, not my boy.

I don't want to make it about your boy. The eagle is American. I agree. The bald eagle is, but the eagles that you have here is predominantly American. That's an American thing, welcome home. I think, I hope is American. I hope to God. And then everything else is, I mean, Houdini, American.

Well, here's a whole jumping over many states. Have you, have you, when you were a kid and you got into magic? Oh, yeah. Because you and I both got into magic as kids. Mm-hmm. Did you buy the thing that taught you? like the secret breaker for magic? I bought a few different ones.

Do you know that it was like a video? It was like a... The mass magician? I don't know if it was a mass magician. Maybe it was, but it was like you could buy it. They were doing ads online or something like that and they would tell you all the tricks and how it worked. I don't know this one specifically.

How'd you learn the tricks then? My brother had a whole chest of dozens of tricks. And then he taught me a bunch. What was the first trick you learned? I think the very first one is the multiplying bunnies. What? You never heard this? No.

You take one bunny. It's like made a sponge. Oh, yeah, and you can like put them in your hands. You crush it, and then you move in, and then there's a bunch of bunnies. Yeah, yeah. There was a first one. Okay.

And there was like a little sex joke in there. I was a kid. I was like, what was a sex joke? It was like, yeah, you know, bunnies. Like, they love to make babies, you know? And then you, it's fire. That was far. That was far.

What was the first tree you learned? I don't remember. But I remember learning it and then going, holy shit, this is so cool. You can kind of command attention, but not in an annoying way. Because every time you give the, you show somebody the trick. It's like the coolest thing that they've seen. Why does magic have like such a weird,

it's like if you're not one of the best magicians, you're a fucking nerd. What is that about? Because we all love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's without a doubt really cool. Yeah. Anytime someone goes, I know a magic trick,

we want to learn about the magic trick. So why is magic have this like rollerblades perception? I think it's kids, kids have like a disordinate benefit for magic. Because kids learn magic, then they get power over adults. Yeah. So, like, as a kid, you're like, hey, look at this trick. You command all this attention.

And then you can actually impress adults with like, all right, well, do it again. You know what I mean? Like, adults would give you a little. Wow, they take you seriously. It's like one of the first times in your life. First time ever. Because you don't know any jokes. You, like, can do, like, clever, like, puns.

And your thoughts they've already had, like, there's nothing. You feel like they're patronizing you a little bit. Yeah, 100%. And then you do a magic trick. Mm-hmm. And they are genuinely interested in, and then we feel that primarily. Yeah. On some level.

And then I think as you get older, you're like, oh, yeah, magic. That's like kid stuff. Because I think kids have such an affinity for it because it gives them power over adults. And so then I think a lot of people that grow up, they're like, yeah, we do a magic style as a kid. And that as a result, they have like this sort of infantile, I don't know, corniness to their whole schick. Yeah. You know, we're in a vest. You don't need to dress like a waiter to do magic.

Yeah, it is cool when someone's like, once someone calls themselves a magician, they're not cool unless they are the best magician. Yeah, yeah. But knowing a magic trick or two, like if you're like an uncle or a grandpa, you know a magic trick or two and it's good and you don't tell anybody the trick, that's a party stopper. I mean, you saw what I did. Joe, these girls were going crazy. You saw what I did. Got out the pool, got wetter. Come on.

That was that possible. Bring it up, Gabe. Bring up Mark Gagnon's fraternity video. He doesn't have access to those phones. Did you have to make them private? Did you have to make them private? I did. I moved them all to a separate YouTube account.

All the brothers asked, they were like, listen, we're doing things now. We can't have this out there. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because at the time, it must have been the coolest video on campus. Yeah, they were showing everyone. Then the second they got real jobs, like, hey, I worked for the DOD.

Can you actually not share this? If you guys aren't familiar, I've made a video when I was in college. It's actually available on the Flakrant Patreon right now. No, you were going to show it? I mean, it was on Patreon. I mean, we can't show it, show it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But we showed it on Patreon. And in the video, serendipitously, I just happened to perform a magic trick. Look, so I had a hand in some of the editing. A girl like crazy. And she was going buck wild, dude. I pulled out of seven of hearts out of her vagina. What are the odds?

Yeah, consensually, but it was crazy. That's how we do magic, bro. I'm telling you, it is a showstopper. You do it at a party, and everyone's kind of like like, well, I got married. No, but like, you chose comedy, but like, why did you stop doing magic? They were really good at it. I was never really good.

Okay. It was like public perception? I mean, it's just like, you know, you get older. Can't be a virgin to hand the magician. It's a tough sell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could be like, what's the guy's name? Not David Blaine, but is David?

Anthony, no, David Blaine. Yeah, you could be David Blaine. And because those guys occupy the same space. And there's no disrespect to Anthony Bourdain, but like there's a similar, like, affect to both of them. Oh, yeah, yeah, like a mysterious sort of sad boy. Yeah, and like, are you white? And then, but I, but like, yeah, he was getting tons of pussy.

so we were like cool with it. You want a magician that looks like they discovered magic in their 20s. You know what I mean? You want to look like he just like picked it up

later and then has the vibe. Like this is not a guy that was doing magic as a child even though he was. Yeah. But he has the energy like yeah, I just kind of got into this like my late,

after like I relapsed, you know, I went to rehab and now I do magic. Also doing the street angle is great. Yeah. Yeah, the whole spectacle with the tigers it's a little.

Yeah, it's too much. Yeah. But the second you're able to be like the Christopher Columbus of magic, you're like, I'm going to show this to black people. I mean, like, you create a whole new land.

You change magic forever. Oh, it was phenomenal. I mean, we really do need to pay for a YouTube premium, by the way. This is crazy. I mean, it's just, it's insane. This is crazy. Just use my account. Use the flagrant account.

There's got to be something, right? All right, but pretend bet. Would you bet heart's here or hearts here? Or could I impress you if the heart was on top, dime was on bottom? Both are different. Come on, turn your hand over. Nope. Go ahead, turn your hand over.

Oh. He's shaking his ass. He swings on him. You're a clown. You understand me? Do it that. I mean, unreal. Legit change magic.

Yeah, I'm a little embarrassed. Is that what it is? Is that what made magic cool? Oh, I think so. Yeah, yeah. Like bring it out of like this, like, you know. elitist little, you know, nerdy, like, dungeon and dragons. Black box theater with, like, your fucking, you know, suit

to making it on the street with real people, 100%. That's far. I am embarrassed to admit that I was a big fan of Chris Angel as a child. Yeah, why? I think, I just thought he was the devil. And I think I was like, this is how I'm going to rebel against me. Oh, I lived, that was where I thought. I was like, do they know your mom on the show?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You gotta have, have you done an episode with her? No, I have not. But I don't know if they can handle it. But there'd be a lot of edits on that one. Christos would be working overtime. Christos. Leave it in.

I mean, Amanda. Oh, yeah, but she thinks Chris Angel's an actual sorcerer. I told you that. I subscribe to that. And you can see it. I could see it. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I always thought he was weird.

I didn't like it. It felt forced. You know, like, David is, we should have him on the pod. Oh, 100%. Yeah, David is, yeah, look at that with the hair. He looks like the Mary Caten 8 plus 8 or something. What's that show called? Something 8.

Like K plus eight. Cape plus eight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, she's got a pageant mom here for sure. What happens in Vegas with these, with these guys? Like, where they just become this kind of, this like, caricature of themselves. Yeah.

You saw it happen to Toolbot. What's his name? Toolbox. Carrot. Carrot top. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Carrotop. Who I hear, by the way, his show is absolutely phenomenal.

Yeah, everyone I know that's ever gone to is like, yeah, he's the best. And he's also a nice guy. say it, it's kind of funny, they say it as if like they're exclaiming something that nobody else knows, even though his show has been sold out in Vegas for two decades, but they're like, it was incredible. Yeah. They're basically saying, I thought it was going to be horrible. I went there to just kind of laugh at him.

And then it was, it was amazing. Yeah. But, uh, but yeah, and he's kind of gotten all the surgery and all that kind of stuff. Like, I expect that in L.A. I expect that maybe in, like, Miami, a little bit in New York, but like, what is it about Vegas? I'm assuming the Vegas thing is that you get stuck in your own little. and you literally just go from hotel to show.

Okay. And that I think you just exist in that and you do long residencies where you never get out of that little, you know, routine. And then what happens? And so then you just get kind of like self-preoccupied is what I'm assuming. And then you become the caricature of yourself

because you're like, oh, I'm just existing within my own little box. But like what specifically about the way that they look? That part, I don't know. Yeah, like the surgeries or even. I wonder if it's like like Vegas showmanship. So everybody's a showman? so it becomes more normalized. And also you're just trying to get bigger,

like more outrageous. You know, like I think, I'm assuming people are responding to like the campiness of it. No pun intended. Yeah. But like the sort of like the,

this like garish like almost drag element. And it, and it's okay out there because you see it everywhere you go. I think that's just the point of the show. Like people go to Vegas to go see crazy shit. So you go see the show and you want it to be crazy. Then you like do it for a year. You know,

like how do it make it crazy? How do I make my personal affect more? That's true. There is no like regular one-man show. Like Mike Barbiglia is not doing one of his one-man hours in Vegas. Yeah. That's a thinking man show. You know what I mean? Yeah. And you actually want to not, you want to watch the Cirque de Saleh. You just want to see something insane. Yeah. And so I'm assuming these individual characters are like, okay, how do I like, either subconsciously or consciously, how do I like embellish my character even more and more and more? And then they become just kind of character of themselves. Whoa. But probably to the benefit of the show. I'm assuming that the show gets better and better and better because they get more outrageous. I mean, Caratop is diesel. Have you seen him now? Yeah. Can we get a picture of Caratops and fully nude body?

Bring up that one where his balls are hanging out on his Instagram. He had an Instagram where his balls were hanging out. Yeah. I remember his pay for ads on his Instagram also. I didn't actually mean his full nude, but here, you can pull up one of these pictures. Yeah, pull up that one. Well, he's shredded. I mean, unreal.

Shreded. I mean, all-time legend. I feel like that's what I'm turning into slowly. That is, I'm trying to get in better shape and my hair's getting more. unkept, that's gonna be me in three years. Jesus, Mark. I wonder if it never, like, you've seen that, that episode with, I think it was,

was it Conan on Conan with Norman and him? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't even know if he was on it. Norm's not on it. Board of Education. No, he's not on it. But the girl who's in the movie is on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think that killed him. Yeah, yeah. Like that rollerblading joke. Yeah, literally. Like ended rollerblading for us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's, uh,

Keratab is me if we never connected in Orlando. That's really what it is. Now, there's somebody else that's you, if we didn't, and we're not gonna bring them up because we would break their little hearts. That's actually, that's a fun story. I was actually wanted to talk about this. Okay, tell you.

The very first time we ever met. Oh, this was great. I was so terrified. Mark planned this meticulously. Don't do it. Does he not know, do you, have you not heard this story? Because I've heard the story from, I'll tell the Miles version and you tell your version.

But you did do it like Miles. Oh, yeah. I got that. Shout out Miles, the legend. The camp legend. Oh, yeah, let's get to fuck Miles in the chat, if you guys don't mind. Fuck Miles. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The chat's going crazy. Miles is a absolute saint. Miles can do no wrong. I will say Miles has gotten more into public infrastructure ever since that window of time. I've known this guy almost 10 years. And he was just kind of like a regular college guy. And the past like three years, he's got very much into trains and so. Do you notice this?

Maybe I'm the only one. Biting his tongue with Buttigieg. The second he started talking about was amazing. There's a moment on the episode where Maas goes, I really like trains. And then Buzzias goes, I love trains. And then all of us went, just pure, just raw.

You know, just a moment. Just two men, just enjoying trains. Just hanging. But my version of the story. Yes, you tell me your version. I just walk into a comedy club. They say, hey, you want to jump on stage. I go, yeah.

No, the version of the story, that's the truth. Yeah. March 2019. Yeah. I'm approaching graduation. Yeah. You are going to Orlando to do a show. Yeah.

I had seen the pyramid joke on YouTube maybe three months prior. Mm-hmm. And then I binge 4-4-1, go through everything. And I was like, okay, I see what's going on. This is fire. Like, it just touched on everything that I like. There was like cultural comedy. It was smart.

It was nuanced. And then just ultimately really funny and then available. Did all the things. So I was like, all right, that's pretty cool. So I started watching it. And then I was like, If there's anyone I could open for, it'd be you. So I hit up Krista at the Orlando Improv, now the Funny Bone renamed.

And I was like, hey, yeah, they changed the name. Oh, really? Funny Bone bought the improv? I don't know what happened. I don't know if they, like, turned it over. So it happens, you do a couple theaters, you know, you start missing out of my local club politics. But yeah, that's what happened. So now it's the funny bone.

But at the time it was improv. And I was like, okay, I'm going to ask my one favor to try to open for someone. At the club. I'd text you Christa, I said, is there any way I can host? Any way at all, I'll do whatever. You get, like, one ask, like a year to, like, get in. Sometimes she'll just throw you up and, like, you were you already hosting or featuring at the club? Just hosting.

Okay. And she'll put you in rotation for random people on off nights, stuff like that. On a weekend, you'll get, like, a couple a year. Yeah. But you get, like, one ask, maybe, like, two. Yeah. I never asked. And I was like, hey, this is my one time.

I really would love to host. Yeah. And she was like, I'll get back to you. A month goes by. Now it's like five days before the show She's like I'm reaching out to their team I don't know there's this guy Alex Media that's saying stuff We don't know exactly what's going on

And then the day of the show she goes Hey you're gonna host and I was like that's crazy And she goes congrats to sold out shows And I was like whole I've never performed the improv When it was sold out it was only off nights And then it was like the weekends But it would be like half full And I was like that's crazy

So it was two I was opening for this guy I was coming to town that was like blowing up I was like this is insane And then on top of that sold out Yeah And so then I go, I'm sitting in the green room, and I'm like nervous as hell. I'm like trying to dress before the show.

I was like, I don't even, like, all my clothes are stupid. Like, a New Yorker wouldn't look at this and think it was cool. So I'm like going through, I like find like a Muhammad Ali shirt. I'm like, that's kind of cool. You know what I mean? I was like, I don't know, boxing is. I don't know, like he's black. I was like, I don't know.

I was like, I'll just throw it on. And then I'm sitting in the green room and then you and Alex come through so tired. That's right. We drove down from Jacksonville, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the day before or the morning up. And you guys just roll in, suitcases the whole deal. And then you just like, chill in the green room.

I just don't say it word, just so nervous. Did you not say anything? I like, I was like, I was like, did we talk to you? Yeah, it was like sort of like host, headliner talk. It was like, oh, what's up? You're from there. Like, yeah.

Like, just like, from my memory, it was just like very brief sort of like interstishes up. And then show happens. The first show is just like normal, fine. I got off stage and Pedro Lima, a great guy from Orlando. He's featuring. And then you turn to me and you go, funny stuff. And I was like,

thanks, man. And then went out in the hallway and I was like, let's go. I was like fired up. And then... I didn't watch any of this. I feel bad.

I feel bad. I don't watch. No, you watch. Of course. You're not going to throw out of comment. Of course, you listen to the whole thing all the way through.

I'm just joking. I'll just joke. I was at the time. It was great. I did go on. I remember, yes, I remember those moments.

And it's... Fucking lie. No, I mean, I remember the moments where like you get a compliment from a comedian and it's like doing clubs or whatever like that, then you're just, it's just,

you float on it for months. Prior to that, I did a show with Mark Norman at a comedy festival, and he complimented a joke, and I was like, this is crazy. Like, I listened to these guys. Do you remember what you closed on, like what your last joke was?

No clue. Was it the rib joke? I don't even know if I was doing it then. I have no idea. I have no memory of that specifically. Yeah. On the stage, the stage stuff, I've no memory of it.

It was all the backstage that I was like this crazy. And then the second show, a girl passes out, out. Oh, had the seizure, right? During Pedro's set. Yeah. And then you go and check on her, make sure she's okay. Yeah. And you just walked out there. I like went in and I was like, hey, there's a girl like having a medical thing. Like just, you can just chill here. You like take off your Nike jacket. And then you went out there and you make sure the girl's okay. And you're like, yeah, I'm fine. I'm a big fan. She like consoles you. She's like, yeah, it's fine.

It's fine. I'm just going to go. And she's like, I was out at Disney. I'm tired. Like I just pass out. and then the fire department comes in. Yeah, yeah. And then as the fire department's in there, you just walk on stage. Yeah. And I almost like grabbed you. I was like,

don't, no, no, don't go, don't do you. Because I was like, he doesn't know, I was like, maybe he doesn't know that there's still here in the room. So I was like, no, no, don't go, don't go. And then you just walk on stage and you just start making fun of the fire department. That was far.

And I was like, what is happening? Yeah. And then you start like, just like teasing the girl a little and she's laughing on the way out. She's like waving at you. But she like almost doesn't want to go with the fire department's like, no, no, we have to stabilize you. And she's like, no, no, let me stay.

So she's having fun. And then there's a girl in the crowd that gets mad. Oh, that's right. Yeah, the girl that would, yeah, yeah, remember us. A girl in the crowd's like, you shouldn't make fun of the fire department, da-da-da. No, the girl, she was like, I shouldn't make fun of the girl who passed out. She's mad at the whole situation. She's like, don't make fun of the, like, it's too sensitive, da-da-da-da.

And then you start roasting her. And you go, what's your job? What are you? She's like, I'm a nurse. And she didn't help. And then you were like, well, why didn't you help? Yeah. And at this point, there's like a standing ovation five minutes into the set that hadn't

even started. The lights are still on. Like, there's emergency medical professionals in the room. That was crazy. And it's a full on standing ovation where, like, you can see the video. It's on YouTube right here. We're going to watch a six minute ad before it comes on. Oh, God, no.

And, uh, oh, no, I'm going to be so embarrassed. Oh, good. Thank God they're selling vacuums again. But, yeah, there's a full standing ovation. I'm filming it on my phone, just like, what is happening? Yeah, that was so cool. And then you got offstage and you were like, yeah, they're pretty good. I was like, what?

I think I kept doing the set, right? Yeah, yeah, no, you did a full hour. And then I went into the set. Oh, wow, yeah. Oh, that's right. And this guy's name is, what's his name? Pedro Lima. Yeah, I remember that.

That's a tough position of being. Oh, wow, it's a 10-minute clip. We were putting out crazy. Go to the middle. Go to the middle of it. Oh, God. Listen, we're not meant to watch it. You guys can watch it on YouTube.

Dude, that's crazy that that was, I connected these things. Yeah. Yeah, but that was a wild. But sometimes those moments are, I think those moments are more fun. I mean, when we get into these, like when we're doing theaters and stuff and arenas,

it's very hard to control thousands of people. Yeah. But at a comedy club, when like something goes wrong, you can take 200, 400 people, whatever, and you can kind of get them all on the same page. Yeah, that's, your perspective at the time.

My perspective was like, if you can control seven people at a coffee shop, like you're killing. Yeah. So the idea of 300 people at a comedy club and then just getting them all

in the same wave to like kind of make fun of the girl that's being indignant. You know what I mean? I was like, this is the crazy thing I've ever seen. You already something crazy, yeah? We went out to dinner after that.

We went out to like a diner or something like that. This is other craziest moment of my life. And what did you start telling us about? How Hitler was misunderstood. No, no, no, no, that's not it. This is no bullshit. That's not it. He's not it.

No, no, no. Crazy conspiracy theories. He's misunderstood. He's worse. He's worse. He's worse. He's worse than people think. That's what it is.

But you were shooting. It was like, you were like, this is the moment. I got to let these guys know I'm down. He just made fun of a dead bitch at the show. I could talk about anything with these guys. We got to hop it, dude. I had to level up. It was your fault.

But, like, it was. No, what did you say? You had some wild shit. Even that whole experience was crazy for me also because you were like, yeah, can you drive to the hotel? and I was like, oh, I get to drive them to the hotel. I said, do you want to get some food? Well, it evolved.

Like, I don't think, I don't think you even realize how big it was for me. Like, I'm just like a local, fucking open mic or Atlanta. I know. I just check it. I just package. Okay, go on, go on. Because you're like, yeah, he's driving the hotel. And I was like, all I bet.

We get my crisis of 300 that. No. Yes, 100%. No. Yes, it was, bro. It was my price of 300, 2010. What did Al say? There's no way Al got in a crisis of 300.

He said, can I drive? No, I'm driving. Okay. If we get in the Chrys 300, this is the car that also always stalls out. So the whole time I'm driving, I'm just like, don't stall. Any minute, this car is going to stall out, and I'm going to have to restart it on the highway at any second and look like an absolute idiot. And so I'm in the car and we put all the stuff in the back and I was like, all right, let's go the hotel. And then you go, let's eat.

And we went to one place that it was fire. It's like a Puerto Rican burger spot. And I was like, okay, let's go there. And it was closed. And I was like, you fucked it up. So what was open? IHOP. That's right.

And then we sat at that like center table. It was like a long table they gave us. Yeah. So we went and we went to IHOP. And then we just talked conspiracies. For a while. Yeah. But there was stuff even evolving in my mind that now obviously makes sense, but at the time made no sense.

Like what? Because like I was with my wife, my girlfriend at the time. Yeah. And you were like, so like as a comment, you're in college, like you date and you're talking to girls. And I was like, well, I have one girlfriend that I've been with since high school. And now I'm in my senior year. of college and we've been together the whole time. Like I could see it's eventually getting married one day.

Yeah. And you were like, what? Are you guys having sex? And I was like, no, we don't really do that. I'm Catholic. And you're like, you're like, you're a virgin? No, I didn't judge it like that. You didn't judge it, but you said, Alex said that.

Alex said that. Alex goes, bro, you're a virgin. And I was like, yeah, I mean, kind of, yeah. And then you made a comment. You're like, I always find these people. I always, I collect. How do I always find people? Why do these people find?

Like, what is going on? And then Alex goes, it's like, Akash and I was like who's Akkosh? I was like completely oblivious and then and then yeah we just did that till 3 in the morning and then Alex pointed to the guy randomly at IHob he was like I think that guy was AIDS and I was like what? He was like yeah that guy's do that on the road he thought he could like sense it yeah he could smell he's like a cat in the hospital he was like yeah that guy's AIDS for sure and he's like I just have a feeling dude I don't know and I was like all right the holocaust I was just go I was like all right

We can top that. I was like, whatever. That's not what we talked about. Okay, on the record, for real, we just talk conspiracies. And then we did that to like three in the morning. And then I dropped you guys off at the hotel and I was just like, hey, dude, if there's anything that I could do, like, help. Yeah. Like, I'll just do whatever.

Can I just give you my number? Yeah. And then you were like, yeah, sure. And I was like, give me your number. That's crazy. And then I called you like, I think I texted you maybe like a couple days later. I was like, yo, thank you so much. The show was awesome.

Da-da-da. If there's any way I can help, I have some ideas. maybe I could fill in here and there. And then you're like, all right, yeah, let's talk. And then we got on the phone and I basically gave you the pitch where I was just like, hey, can I like help out with like, I can edit a little and I can like maybe help with like clips and stuff. And I can also like, I can help with merch.

I can like, I design them for my fraternity. So like if I get the merch, maybe I can like sell them on the road. And, you know, I can also maybe open the show, maybe just host the show because it'll add consistency to the show. That was the part where it felt like I was stretching where I was like, there's no way he's going to go over this. I was like, dude, saying I didn't have an opener at the time. time, huh?

No. So I was just traveling with Alex and then whatever openers they had at the club. That's what I presume, yeah. Wow. So I was like, all right, if I can, you know, maybe open, it might add some consistency to the show. You know, you don't have to worry about someone before, da-da-da. And I was like, he's going to see you right through. He's going to think he's going to be like, no way.

And then you're like, yeah, let's try for a few months. I didn't ask you to edit a clip or anything first or you weren't cutting some clips first. I think maybe. It was like all around the same time. I was like, let me do the merch and I can bring it to the shows and I can help with the clips and then, da-da-da. How I remember it is like you were cutting some clips and then you were coming with us on the road.

When did you come on the road next? Addison Improv. Oh, wow. Addison, Texas. You guys went to Cleveland and then the weekend after you guys went to Addison. And then you had some thing, you had to graduate or something.

Right? Didn't you have to graduate? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you had to graduate. I remember that. And then you said you could come to New York and you would live in New York. Yeah, I was like, for the summer,

I'll go and I'll just do whatever you guys need. I'll just down to help. And then how'd you afford that? I lived on Joey Rinaldi's couch. No way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he, I knew him from like another friend. Was I paying you? Yeah. I mean, that was like the deal. I was like, hey, can I just do road stuff? And I'll just get paid from the road. And then you were like, yeah, we'll do the road stuff. And then I'll also like throw you a look something extra. I was like, okay. What? I was like, that's crazy. I was like, I just need the road money. Okay, so you were cooking up clips and you're obviously funny on stage, but you were like savvy with the stuff. I think from our conversations, I

must have known. But you said something funny. I don't know where it was. I don't know if it was in Orlando. You remember it? 100%. Yeah. I remember the moment.

Because I was like, oh, he's funny. I made them laugh. I remember it. I remember it. Like, I had a feeling you were like clever, but you weren't shooting yet. And then we were driving on the highway,

and there was a car that pulled up, and it was missing a bumper, and it was missing, like, a side panel. And then, like, there was, like, duct tape on one of the windows. And I look over, like, damn, that cars fucked. up and then you were like, you were like, Virgil made it or something.

You were like, it was like off white, like it was an off white reference. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was the deconstructed, yeah. Was it Jordan's, it was that Jordan one? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like, the Air Max is all this stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I remember you saying that, I was like, oh, shit.

I was like, that's kind of funny. Like, to just think of that in the moment, like, whoa. Alex gave it a ta-ha. Yeah. And I was like, oh. No, you got like a big lap. And like, it wasn't even like a, I think the laugh wasn't even, I was like, oh, wow, okay.

That's how I felt. I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, that was, yeah, I remember that. And I was like, oh, wow, okay. And then obviously I was seeing, you know, the stand-up, I thought was funny. I must have, like, thought you were funny. I wouldn't take somebody on the road if I didn't, like, watch and think you were good. But I remember you saying that and, like, having, like, these funny, like, quips with us.

And I was like, oh, he's funny. And then you understood the game. You definitely understood the game, especially the way that we were playing it. Like, this is early on when, like, I was, like, at the seller trying to convince comics and put things up on social media, and they're telling me, like, oh, no, you just got to go do Jimmy Kimmel or something. I'm just like, where does he put it? Oh, that's another part of the story. That's so funny.

Okay. You, I reposted something that you had on Instagram. And I was like, yo, I think Schultz changed the game with, like, his whole release strategy. I think YouTube was a move, da-da, and I put it on my story, and then you reposted it. And I was like, oh, that's crazy. And I think I messaged you. I was like, hey, man, if you were. need any help, let me know. And then I don't think you read it. And then when I actually went

on the road with you guys, I deleted those messages. I was like, oh, I don't want to, it's going to be so corny. He's going to be like, oh, this guy's so thirsty. So I just deleted him. That's so funny. But I saw the trajectory and I was also making like, you. Weren't you working with Sam or something, and Joe or something? Joe Mackey and Phil Hanley. That's right. So I met Sam in a comedy festival like the summer before. Oh, God. And I was just like, hey, I was like listening to pod. Jokes on you. Ficked up guys.

Fucked up big time. Most talented people in comedy you had right under your fingertips. I was in Orlando. I was far away. And I was just like, yo, can I edit? You're like editing their pod or something like that? Yeah, I was like, can I help out with the pot? But they didn't see it.

I was also distant. I was like still in college and stuff. Now, you got to see it, dude. I mean, listen, I get myself credit for a lot. But one thing I'll definitely give myself credit for it. If you're talented, I can see it. Yeah. Like I saw it quick.

I was like, oh, shit. You plucked up Shifty from Home Depot. Yep, we got Shifty, but you quick. Yeah. You quick, Shifty, quick. Alex, too, he was just like so eager. And like, even though he couldn't do it yet, like, I knew he would teach himself how to do it. Yeah.

You know? Like, when he first started, it was like really rough. But I was like, oh, he just wants it bad. I mean, even thinking about the early days of the content you guys were doing, even before I joined. It was insane. Now that I'm a little bit in that sort of, like, lane where I'm like, okay. You got to do pod during the day, then you got to cut stand-up at night, da-da-da. I'm like talking to these guys, I'm like, yeah, I don't know how Alex did it.

Bro. There was a time. This is actually crazy. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I want to talk to you about the most discreet, coolest way to curb your nicotine cravings. And that's right here with Zipix. You probably see me chomping on a couple of these toothpicks.

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Now let's get back to the show. When you first started, I don't know if you were working with this at this time, but there was a time where I remember I stopped working at MTV or something like that. Oh, I got asked to do one, like, I asked to do like a show on vice or something. like audition for a show on Vice. And I was like, this is my last time doing some shit for TV. Like, I had known it was done. I, but I got an opportunity.

And this is the time Vice was like falling off, but it was, you know, Deez-Zamero was popping on Vice. So it was like, okay, they're still kind of cool. Deez-A-Mero left, but they're looking for someone to kind of replace it. They're looking some hosts. And I get asked and like, I go, okay, let me go do this. And I remember telling myself, I was like, if I don't get this, I'm going all in on YouTube.

Like, this is the last thing I even care to do. I remember I was doing a, I had like this MTV contract. They give you like a yearly contract. And I was on like five different shows. And the amount was, it was, I think I made $118,000 a year. Right. And I thought I was the richest person on the planet. Like I didn't even understand taxes or nothing, dude.

I would just walk into stores and buy shit. I was like, I have $118,000, dude. Like, I felt so rich. It was unbelievable. And then I got like a. 3% or 5% increase every year. They had me on five different TV shows. Yeah.

Like, I was getting paid minimum wage to be a TV personality. How crazy is that? Yeah, what is it? Jobs that don't suck. Jobs that don't suck. Or jobs that don't suck. Girl code, guy code, guy court. I'm fucking hosting MTV.

I was so grateful I'm not complaining about this at all. But, like, very early on, I was like, oh, people on TV don't make any money. Yeah. Like, and then this vice thing, and then what happened was, I got, I, uh, got told by one of the executives over there that they were not going to continue my contract, like two weeks before it ended, which I thought was kind of like cruel. Like, what if this is the only way I come forward to live? And you, I have to ask you if it's going to be continued. I was actually going there to ask them if they could, uh, if they would let me do this, uh, sitcom. This is on this hockey show. Anyway, the, um, uh, and I remember, I was like, I'll go all in on YouTube. And, and I remember, I was like, I'll go all in on YouTube. And then I was like, I'm going to turn the YouTube channel into a TV channel and I'm going to have a new show every single day. So every single day, there'll be a new show. And I think it was like, Flayrant was one day, brilliant was one day. The jokes show, inside jokes was another day. And then I think we were doing, dropping it. And then dropping in was another day. And then maybe there was like a clip that would come out or something from Brilliant and a clips would come out from Flake or something like that. And I was like seven days a week, there are going to be, there's content on this.

and it was insane. And Alex was just cooking up all the shit while he was full-time corrections officer. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. He had a full-time job. Full-time job. It was editing a full TV network.

He had like an injury from like some felon that like tried to run out of the courtroom. Oh, really? And Alex, like, stopped him and like hurt his knee. And it was perfect for us because he could get disability. So they put him in just a room. Like you can do paperwork. He's like, all right, I'll do paperwork.

He's just editing brilliant idiots. Was Akosh the felon? You put a knee under him? So it was like, yeah, that was insane. I mean, think about that, like the amount of content. Yeah. Even now to get one podcast out, it's insane. Yeah.

And granted, the expectations for things were different, right? But you go back and watch the old shit, it's still fire. It's still fire, but like at the same time, everything felt so, I don't want to say rebellious, but it was like everybody's expectations were different because you're at a nightclub in deep Brooklyn. You're not at a nightclub in Soho. You go out to a club in Soho. that shit better be nice, the seeds better be cleaned,

like, that's the internet now. But early on, it was like, how are they getting this up on the internet? Yeah. People couldn't believe it. Well, you can think,

like, right now on Flagon, we'll use, like, the Lavalier mics. Yeah. You guys were using that on dropping it. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like, you guys were doing that, and that was a podcast. Yeah. In 2017, 2018. I wonder if we even use that shit. We used it on dropping in?

I'm pretty sure, yeah. And Alex figured out a way to make it work. Bro, I remember when I bought a TV, there was a TV in the old flagrant studio that went right there. It wasn't my studio. It was Chris Moreau's studio for loudspeakers. And I was like, and I asked Chris, I was like, Chris, why don't we just build this?

Like, it's going to be something. And he didn't see the vision with me, I guess. And, but shout out, Chris. But I was like, I was like, I was like, and I bought this TV and it was this little flat screen TV that lived there at the end of the desk. And I thought that it was the tonight show. I mean, and all that went there was the logo of the show. And I was like, everybody can have their own logo of the show on the thing. And then it feels like a real show. Like, the bar was so low back in the day. It was like, look at this. To look at this studio right here. Like, this is the nicest studio in all

podcasting, hands down. To look at this compared to old flagrant days. Like, I mean, old old day. bro, you might not even have pictures of it. That's it. That's it right there. Yeah. When we put that up, bro, there was one episode where Al got there early and Al put, he bought black curtains and he lined the whole studio with black curtains. Okay.

And he lined the whole entire studio with black curtains because he wanted to like give it like a more studio looking effect. And we showed up and we walked in there. and you couldn't see Kaz the whole episode. I mean, it was a great idea. But remember, we're not, there's no lighting in that sort of. You're using the lights from the fucking, the luminescence.

Yeah, but this is, it was so, it was really weird. It's interesting to talk about it. It was like a really exciting time. Yeah. We'd throw something up and have no clue what it would do. No clue. Every time you threw it up, no clue.

Do you already views the episodes would get at that time? Bro, like we had a porn star on once and it got fucking 500,000 views and we're like, what? Yeah. And then we fought that urge to just kind of continue doing that, which I'm proud that we did at that time. It was very easy to chase. I don't think we were monetized for years. Really? I don't think we were making YouTube money.

Why? Because you just didn't turn it on or you? We didn't know. We just, like, the way I was thinking about this is like building community and like, I thought that people would come out to live shows. Yeah. So I just paid for it. For the first year, I just paid for it.

Like, Akash was almost homeless. And it was just like, and Alex, we found some agreement. And then, I mean, the moment where Alex, like, quit his job was like a big. Yeah. Like, we're going all in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we have people committing their lives.

Like, for everyone on the show, it's like, yeah, you know, we're making money in the road, da-da-da. But Alice was like, yeah, I'm, this is it. And we weren't even making money on the road. We were making, like, two grand a weekend, which is great. but like that's the bare minimum you're making as a comedian. Yeah. You know, if you're a headlining comedian,

you're making a couple grand if you're not getting like the door. This is before you could really. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, and you're not working necessarily every weekend. Yeah,

you're like, you work in as many as you can get. But again, like at that point, I'm getting the shitty weekends in any club, like, yeah,

it was, you're getting like, the worst, like, it's fucking Super Bowl. And I don't even know if that's even good. I'm trying to think of like, there's a big thing happening.

Yeah. That nobody would go out to a comedy club. Then you get off for the weekend, you're like, fuck it, I'll do it. Yeah. And you're going alone. Yeah. It's like, super lonely. Yeah.

I mean, having you and Al around it was like, yeah, I don't understand. It was having an owl was like, this is awesome. And then having you and out, I was like, oh, my God, this is the most fun. Yeah. We're just traveling the country, getting in trouble, doing stupid shit. Yeah. Yeah. And taping it, putting it on the internet.

People like it. You know, more people start coming to the shows. It's like, insane. But that is also weird for me because I think, about the early days when I was on the road with you, almost every show was sold out. Like, at that point, you caught on, like, that was like the first time in my career, like,

I won't say the first time. I think you caught on when I started to make money. So basically what happens, like the first time I was doing the clubs when people started to find out about me, the rooms were papered, which like anybody listening means, like, the comedy clubs have a call service, they call people, they go, do you want free show tickets to the Andrew Scholl's show?

and they just, that was the business back in the day. They give the comic two grand and then they just try to paper the room and sell them drinks. And so the first, after I put out like the 4-4-1 or even before that,

when I started doing like the 52 weeks of stand-up, I was like, okay, I'm starting to get it. Like, tickets are starting to sell. Mm-hmm. Not sell. The rooms would be packed. Mm-hmm.

So I did like a whole tour with the rooms packed from papering. Then I did a whole other tour with the rooms packed from selling and I would get like bonuses. Yeah. So you get two grand and you get like a $500 bonus

if you sell out the show. And it's like, and also you have to sell out all five to get your bonus. Like it's insanely stacked against you. And I did a whole other run with that. And then after that I finally got the courage to tell my agent, like,

I think we're doing good and I think maybe we can ask for like some sort of deal or something. Yeah. Because even that show in Orlando was one night. Yeah. One night. Yeah, we did Jacksonville,

I think the night before. And then that we were doing that. And then basically, show from then, I remember like two in the very early days. It was like St. Louis. Yeah, St. Louis. Where it was like, oh, there was some seats in the back. Yeah. And then other than that, everything else was sold out.

Yeah. And it's just crazy to think. Like, even at that point, like, things were cooking. Yeah, it was, sorry, Mark. Don't worry. So, yeah, that was a fun. In the trap door, we have another. How's a fun time. It was just, yeah, it was just so exciting. Everything was so exciting. Putting something out, having it catch on. And like, also the end. at that time in your career is so great because like you're not you're not successful yet so like everybody that is rooting for you you know there's this like energy about like oh shit what's going on what is this this is different like I want this person to win once you have like perceived

success and we've talked about this at nauseam but once you have perceived success there's there's a lot of people like almost human instinct to be like I you don't deserve that shit yeah whatever and but the energy I think that's That's why it's so seductive on the way up. Mm-hmm. The energy of that is just, there's no one that's not rooting for you. Yeah. It's, it's, it's...

I mean, that's how it felt for me. Like, I was so excited just to be a part of it. You know, because, like, in my mind, I was like, I'm in college, like, there's no way you can even make money doing it. Like, I was like, there's no way this will work that I could go on the road. I didn't even understand how it could work. But you were killing. You got funny fast, too.

I mean... You got funny fast. It took a couple takes. No, I thought you were all. I thought you would always do well, but then you started to like kind of break the mold a bit. I think I understood the audience a little bit where like you're doing like open mics in Orlando

and it's just like random people and it's hard to understand, it's hard to understand what they need. You can't charm them. They're like, well, actually I don't know what the Orlando comedy scenes, but like if it's all comics, you're not going to charm them.

It's a lot of comics and then just random people. It would just be open mics where it's like, okay, there's like a girl doing homework on our computer. Yeah. And then a comedy show what happened. And so like the way I would judge, jokes is like if a girl took her headphone out. Yeah.

And, like, laugh. I'd be like, y'all, I'm killing right now. Like, if her headphone came out, I was like, this is crazy. She paid attention. But there have been times, like, you'll do Crowler or someone, you're like, oh, so what do you do? And they'll just put their headphones in. And you go, all right.

And then move on. And it's like daytime out. It was a nightmare. It's something the idea of, like, being on the road and, like, actual comedy fans. And then people that really loved stand-up. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, even to this day, the shows are the same way.

but especially then, it was the first time performing from an audience that loved stand-up. Yeah. Like, they were like, we want jokes. And yeah, you have, like, a lot of creative liberty there because you could do,

especially with our audience, like, you could do kind of fucked up shit. Oh, yeah. They wanted you to go, like, hey, push us. Like, make us a little uncomfortable. Like, do the wild thing. And especially at that point of time, like a lot of the brand was,

comedy was, like, really neutered, at least on TV. And my whole thing, thing, at least at that point in time, was just like, that sucks, and I'm not going to do that. And then people were really rallying behind it. Yeah. And it was, and also, this is at a time where it's like, that wasn't popular.

Yeah. You know, I think you'll miss that. Like, people that became comedy fans last, like, two, three years. Yeah. I think that part's kind of lost. Yeah. It was not popular. Like, most people were trying to get on Comedy Central.

Yeah. They really wanted to do that. They were trying to make their acts clean. Like, they were trying to figure that out. And I get that completely. That makes total. sense, but the people that were coming out, because of that, there weren't many options that were like that.

Mm-hmm. And-hmm. Which was the stand-up I always loved. Like, I always said, like, my favorite comic was Tosh. I was just, loved, like, it was, like, he was, like, abrasive. Like, he would, like, go against the grain, it felt like. But he was so good. And there was something cool about, like, I just loved him.

And so that was a stand-up I was drawn to, but I could never really do it, like, like an open mic at a coffee shop at 6 p.m. Yeah. And so then being on the road with you, I was like, oh, I can actually do the jokes that I like. Yeah. And then it actually works and connects. And then that just blew my mind. I was like, I can't believe that's working.

Yeah. It felt so much easier than trying to, like, write, like, a clean, kind of corny joke that I think that the audience will like, and it just, like, it all clicked. It just blew my mind. And then even in those early days, remember, like, sharing, like, an Airbnb? Yeah. Specifically in, like, Texas somewhere. We would all just crash. When we did the fashion thing.

What was that? What city was that? Was that Addison? I don't remember the first one, but yeah, I think it was there doing the first one. They're doing the fashion videos. Do you guys remember those? Of course. Yeah.

I mean, those were so funny. Like, it was so cool. All this stuff was so organic. We were just throwing something out there being assholes and then it would kind of catch. And then there was just so much positivity around everything because people are like, these guys don't give a fuck. They're doing good, funny comedy. And it's different from everything that we're seeing. And it's kind of like this, I don't know if you're like going backwards or forwards or whatever you want to call it.

But it was like, oh, yeah, this reminds me of Tosh or reminds me. reminds me of these comics I really liked and now you're not seeing this in the space as much. Yeah. Not that there weren't comics still doing that, but in terms of TV. Yeah, it wasn't rising up. Yeah.

Yeah. And yeah, we would do those fucking fashion videos and then those started to build. I couldn't believe it. Like it just blew in mind that you could make something that you liked and that people would also like it. Like in my mind, it was always like capitulate to what you think people want.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then you were just like, no, no, this is far. That is a good, uh, Yeah, that is a, that is something that you've had to kind of like wrangle with have noticed. 100%. It's like you're really good at hacking the game. Yeah, but I lose touch of like what. You really want to say.

Yeah. And it's like reminding yourself like, I always tell you this, but it's like, what do you want to do? And then the internet will find the people that also like that thing. Yeah. You'll figure out how to make anything work. Mm-hmm. But you should start with the thing you want to do. I just like doing that type of comedy and nobody fucking wanted me to do it.

I mean, people did, but not on TV. Like, nobody. I mean, I couldn't get, I couldn't get anything, bro. It was, like, even when I got JFL, and in retrospect, I look back in it, I'm like, I wasn't ready for it. Really? Like, I was ready enough compared to other people there, but I didn't have, like, a package that would, when you do something like that, you have, like, a package that could be sold. That's the reason you're there. There's a, there's, like, an audition set.

Yeah, JFL is a festival. in Montreal and just for laughs. And essentially what it is is like, they sell tickets to all like the agencies and the production companies and the movie studios and they come there to find their new stars. And then before comedy was on the internet,

this was the place that you went to go see. And it's a big party and all that kind of shit. But like getting it was this like real moment in a young comics career. And I think the people that do really well kind of have that brand where they're like, okay, I'm going to introduce who I am. I'll explain like sort of who I connect with,

who my people are. And it'll be really funny. and it'll be mostly clean all in like a five, 10 minute set. And I was like, how do I tell the joke about the Mexicans stealing the jobs when they don't even have Mexicans in Montreal? They don't have Mexicans. You're not Mexican. And everyone was like, hey, don't do this.

But then you did it. No, I didn't. I didn't do that joke. I actually tried to do like what I thought the set would be for, like, what would make a TV show. Oh, really? So I did a little of that and it was like, fine. It was all right. When was the nasty show?

When did you do that? Oh, that was different. That was different. Yeah. So, JFEL, like, new faces is the one where you're young. By nasty show, I don't know when exactly that, but by nasty show, like, things had changed. And it was like, and then specifically, I experienced JFL when you go there and nobody really cares about your set. And then when you go there and then when you're cooking, you start getting asked to do all these other different shows.

Mm-hmm. You know? And, uh, and the next thing. The nasty show was like, in my opinion, the most prestigious show there. It's nasty, but it's also like that's who does, who wants to go to the clean show? Right? It was like the guys. The JFL Christian show, you're like, all right.

The guys I looked up to were doing a nasty. Patrice is doing a nasty show, you know. And, um, yeah, I could feel there was a different, something different happening there. I don't know what year that was, though. That's interesting. That was before, that was before we met. Are you, no. I think so.

I feel like it was like 2018. I know for a fact it's not. Really? Because Emma came up with me. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, wow. I know for a fact, it's not because Emma came up there with me.

And we knew each other prior to Emma, right? I think so, yeah, March 2019. Is that prior? You're calling on my mind. I'm all about me married, bro. I think I knew each other. I think we knew each other prior. But no clips came out from it, and I didn't go.

Because there was nothing for me to do It was just like hey it's a comedy festival Yeah So then if it was after it was like yeah We're gonna go to Montreal And I was like right Yeah So I was just sleeping on Bernaldi's couch

I think Al went though I think so yeah Yeah See I don't think I had my own show there I don't think so No you were just doing the showcase Yeah But then I think Al had told me

I didn't know when the timing was But he had told me he was like Oh yeah that show was crazy The nasty show He was like yeah that was like There was something different Yeah I mean there was a couple there that were just fucking, you know, I'm trying to think that.

Something happened there where it was just like, uh, I think there was a lot of like, buzz and also, you know, there was a lot of buzz and then there was, it may be like a confirmation of the buzz. Mm-hmm. So that makes sense? Yeah, it was a cool time. Like, I even remember when, I'm trying to like organize all these times.

Like, we were cooking, we did that tour, and then I started to do, I think when I met you, 4-4-1 was coming out because I released it. Yeah, it was in there, you were just doing the end of it and the last part was coming out, like the weekend or the two weeks after I met you. Did you not come to Europe with us?

Mm-hmm. No, Al got arrested. I wasn't there. Where were you? I was in Florida. That was before me. You, hold on. So you didn't come out, you didn't come with us during 4-4-1. You came out with us

when views from the sis was coming out. Oh, that's what I meant. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think, like, the, because the plan of that, had I done Rogan already? You were just about to. Yeah. You were like, days away.

Like, I think you told me in the room, you're like, yeah, I'm going to do Robin. I was like, what? And you're like, yeah, I'm going to go do it. I was like, you're nervous? You're like, no, just talk. I was like, what? It just blew my mind.

You were just like nonchalong, like, yeah, I'm going to go do Rogan. Yeah, like, I mean, this was at a time where, like, if you, you know, were a comedian you did rogan you were let me preface this if you were a comedian and you did rogan and you had other things out there for all those people to go watch yeah you were a household name and comedy yeah and that existed for several years obviously the landscape is different like so many more people are putting out specials it's a different time yeah but this is at like

if you did rogan so at this time i'm putting out i put out 52 weeks of stand-up I do 4-4-1. I do views from the cis. Yeah, it was coming out in that window. And my goal was, and I remember saying this to myself, I'm putting out views from the cis,

and I'm going to do one, I'll put out one section of it every week for five weeks or whatever it was. And it was like five different pieces, right? And five different cities in Europe. I don't know why I fucking filmed in Europe. But that's fire. I remember even watching it at home being like,

he was in Norway? Yeah. Like, this is crazy. But what a fuck. I did comedy so hard. Four for one for no reason. I'm like, you could just film the same set, but like every mistake I made ended up working out,

it's so weird how things work out. It's like, if you do a special and you're in the same outfit with the same backgrounds, all the clips start to blend into each other. Yeah. But because I thought it'd be a cool idea to do this like night of comedy, I did it in five different clubs in the city

and end up being four with an edit. So that's four for one. And because of that, each background is different. So when people see new clips, organically, they're like, oh, this is another thing from him. Yeah. Whereas if I just did it all in the same club, they wouldn't have seen that.

But that wasn't by design. Wait, what do you mean is five, but one with an edit? It was 5-5-5-1. So when I put out the album, it's five different clubs. What happened? Why? Because I'm just a fucking insane person and it wasn't funny enough.

But it's in the album, the album that's out there. Do you remember what bit was in, or like what jokes were in that that you cut out? No. And I cut it down from an hour to, I think it's like 20 minutes or something like that. How long is 4-4-1? No, go to 4-4-1 because the album's like an hour, I think, or close to an hour. That's something I never knew.

Like, I never understood why. Yeah, I cut it down to like 17 minutes. I just was like, it has to be heat, undeniable heat. Yeah. I'm curious what I cut. But we can find, I mean, I cut a lot. I cut like 30 minutes. But I'm sure I use some of that as part of like the build-up or something.

I don't know. but then you go to Rogan but I said like before that I was like a year or two before that like maybe a year and I was like I'm gonna release this as five different things again and oh no not again

I'm gonna do five different things because then I have a different version the different like entry points into me I have five different ones so if this one doesn't get you maybe the next one will maybe the next one will is like if you watch this one thing and it's 40 minutes long you might hate me after five minutes

and then you won't watch the end, which you would have really liked. So I'm like, I'm gonna do five different ones and I'm going to Europe, and for some reason I thought that would be cool. It's not cool. I have one chance to do these jokes right. I bombed the Belgium show entirely.

I decide to do the whole thing in places where people don't even fucking speak English. It was the dumbest thing ever. Which randomly, I ran into a guy that you did a show with in Norway. Jonas Joseph. Yeah, black dude. Jonas Joseph.

He's like Somali? Yeah, he's in New York now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The nicest guy. I got to hit him up. I've been hanging with him randomly. Like, he'll come to shows, we was like kicking. I think he opened for me, didn't he?

That's what he said. He's like, oh, yeah, I opened for shows. I had that show. And I was like, what? That Al didn't fucking film one of the cameras, piece of shit. Which would be a theme. Which would be a theme for many years to come. I should have noticed.

That's so funny. Anyway, I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do Rogan. At this point, never spoken to Rogan. No connection to Rogan. I was like, I'm gonna do Rogan. The second week that I deliver of this five weeks for, views from the cis. And the idea was one piece will be out and then the second week, the second piece will be out,

and then the people will follow the next few. And I'm going to tell him everything that I think is going to happen in comedy for what is happening right now will happen for the next few years. And I did Rogan the second week that was coming out. How did he hit you? Brendan Schaubb. Yeah, that's why I love Brennan Shob. I did the fighter and the kid.

And I remember, and he was talking. And then I remember I went out, it's interesting. I went out to L.A. I had shows at the comedy store. I had two shows of the comedy store, and Rogan Kane. In the belly room? No, in the main room, the big one. And I had two shows, and I think I had shows.

There were my shows, if I'm not mistaken. But, like, he opened. He, like, popped in. Oh, really? Yeah. And then I think he watched. But this is the thing. It was like, Instagram and comedy was new.

It's not like, we all know someone. on Instagram now doing comedy because everybody does it. But at the time, it was like, I was doing a different new thing. Yeah. And he had just heard and everything was kind of like word of mouth in the community. And you're like, what is going on? What is happening? Knowing that he's watching you, were you nervous?

Um. Because kind of make a break a little bit where it's like your plan is to then go on a show. I'll be honest with you, no. No. No. I wasn't nervous. I wore a crazy outfit too. It was like a kiff jean jacket.

and like running pants. That's something we need to talk about. The early outfits were crazy. They were fire. You all got to see this. And I think I have a picture of it. Do you remember the monochrome? You're like, yo, each city I'm going to do different monochrome.

And I was like, what? I wore purple in Nashville. You got to go to the Nashville. This was so. I was trying to figure out how fashion and comedy could mix a little bit. But you were like at the Toronto show. Oh, that was crazy. A pin in that also.

Yeah. But you wore full orange. Like a prison outfit. Yo, it was crazy. And in my mind, I was like, oh, do I wear this hoodie or is this hoodie gay? I was like, oh, I shouldn't do it. And then you're wearing full orange is the new black.

Yo, I look like a lesbian from orange is a new black. You know, but the Nashville, the Nashville show is crazy. There's a clip out from it. I forget what it is. But I'm dressed like a vibrator. It is so bad. Which is early days. I ended up inheriting.

that shirt. You did? Yeah, for anyone that doesn't know, there's a, there's a sort of swap meet that happens in a studio. Or basically, like, once a month, Schultz will bring in the old catalog and be like, yo, if anyone wants anything, grab it. Yes, yeah. And then we would fight over it. You're on it, Gabe. Yeah, this is it right here. You're on a game. And I ended up getting

the shirt and then try to wear it, like three different times. And it didn't work? And I was like, I can't fucking wear this every day. This is Kitt Super before Kid Super. Just let y'all know, we invented Kid Super. All these outfits were 10 years before their time. You know it goes with a navy sleeve turquoise.

Look at the orange collar. I'm dressed like a dog. Didn't that how little dogs get dressed? So I look at this outfit. The confidence. In Nashville, Tennessee. Bro. That's the thing that always blew up on.

Every show I'm terrified. You're just like, yeah, I'll dress purple. And I was like, really? You're like, yeah, it's fine. Streetwear Cat Williams. Yeah, it was crazy. I don't know why I thought. I was like, maybe it was because we were posting stuff online.

Yeah, every week you were posting, like inside jokes, dropping in and a clip. Yeah. All different outfits. And like, each city was a different outfit. I also was like, Rick, that's so funny. This is the car. Yeah, I also was like, I saw how people like what the trend was for people dressing in comedy, which was kind of like inspired by Louis C.K.

Mm. You know, which is this like, black shirt jeans. Yeah, which is like, like I'm in a purposely kind of dress like. like I don't care. Yeah. But like I do, like, I felt contrived a bit. But if everyone's wearing the same thing,

then it's like, yeah, you do care. You did the thing, you tried to dress like you don't care. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but then you're still trying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I just felt like it was like, what is this?

This is phony. Yeah. This is, like, so that they like you for like a second. Like, they're gonna forget about your outfit once you're funny. Like, what is, what are we doing here? Yeah. And, um, I'm also like,

we're clowns a little. Like, we don't have to dress that they, Like, what are we, who were we impressing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, yeah, I just thought it was kind of fire. I mean, it was. Like, it worked for every clip where it was like, yeah, it was a different fit. The one in Dallas, I think I'm a milkman.

I wore, like, all cream on stage. But to your credit, you made a joke about your outfit every show. I would tease it. I would tease it. If it was that ridiculous, I would tease it. But what was interesting is that, like, and again, this is one of those happy accidents, but, like, it's engaging to look at. You see a person in a purple outfit on TV.

I'm not aware of that. this or YouTube, but I'm not going to wear this at the time. Look at that. Actually, it was fired though. I'm A early. I was going to point that out. I'm A early. You get equity play.

You need that. Come on now. Pull paid full price. I mean, Dallas, Texas, a cream jumpsuit. Yeah, they thought I said Amy. They didn't have no idea what that. I thought I said. So, yeah, it was a...

I mean, that's a Toronto show. I remember, so I just showed, I was like, I think, I think it's a theater. I remember telling you, my girlfriend, I was like, yeah, I think it's a theater. She's like, really? Was that before town hall or after?

That was before. We always do the bigger thing in Toronto before anywhere else. Dry run, you know, dry run for the Canadians. But I was like, I mean, this is, oh, Tyler Morrison, shout out of him. But I was like, oh, this is crazy. And then we showed up at the place

and I immediately texted. I was like, this is, I don't know what to do. This felt like the biggest venue I've ever seen in my life. That's what I felt. I mean, it, an insane outfit to wear. Also, not meat flattering.

Like, like, I think I wore them. You're packing. You're packing. No, like I wore them low, so it didn't look like my shit had hang. Oh, wow. What an insane outfit. What the fuck? I mean, crazy.

I forgot what the name. I forgot the name of this. I remember it. It was seared to my memory because I was looking at the date coming up and I was like, oh, shit. I really have to do this. I know this shit. I bet you it's in the description.

Danforth Music Hall. That's the Danforth? I think you might be right. Is it Danforth? Gabe? If you go on the description, I bet you it says it. Yeah, Danforth Music Hall. Wow.

And that was like a big deal. I think Daniel Caesar did like 20 of them in a row or something. Right? Like, it was like a venue that was like meaningful. It's an iconic spot like in the Danforth district of Toronto. Yeah. Yeah. And I just remember going on stage me like this is crazy.

I was selling T-shirts moments before walking on stage. Did you remember what you did? What jokes? Vagely. Yeah, I actually listened back to it not that long ago and kind of like rehashed my memory and I was like, oh, this is actually pretty good. I was like shocked.

But I was selling T-shirts moments before going on stage. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I got to tell you about a dirty little secret, okay? The insurance industry doesn't want you to know this. Well, basically what the insurance companies do is that they profit by holding onto your money as long as possible.

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increase to your settlement. And Morgan and Morgan makes it so easy to get started. Their fee is free unless they win. There's literally no risk. Unless they win your case, you're not paying a dime. With Morgan and Morgan, it's never been easier. I'm telling you, you just go to for the people.com. That's right, F-O-R-the-people.com, and use the code Gagnon, G-A-G-N-O-N-O-N, or dial Pound-Law. That's Pound-F-E-N-O-N-O-L-D-L-A-T-O-L-T-N. And this is a paid advertisement. Now, ladies and gentlemen, let's get back to the show. There's a, there's a moment where, like, we started to do these venues, and it was like, Mark, you can't be selling T-shirts on. Like we gotta stop this What is going on?

It was like shortly after this one I think so I think that's where we're like We're like hey we're doing theaters We can't really doubt it It just wasn't the right leg I mean you're always like Too funny to be doing it

But you know at the same time We're like traveling with three people How insane is it Now our like logistics team Were you guys doing all this before? I don't know How would the theaters get done? I have genuinely no idea

Now it feels like we got 30 people trying to make a theater show work and it's still problems. It used to be me with Alex just telling union guys to ship the light. Do you remember we would cut? There was a Michael Boubley's version of feeling good.

Feeling good. And town hall. It was every place we would go and it would take us 30 minutes to an hour to get them to understand how to make the lights come out when the... Yeah.

I mean, even being in Toronto, I had to sell the shirts and I didn't know how to get the square to work. Oh, because it was... You couldn't use the bank account. So I ended up asking like a random guy that you knew. I was like,

yo, can I use your bank account? We put the money through there. Never got it out, probably. It was just like, it was insane. Like, the whole organization of the whole thing was just wild, but somehow it worked. Yeah, we just treated theaters like comedy clubs.

Yeah. We're like, you guys will be set up to just do whatever we need to do. And I remember, I feel we were. But I remember walking on the sidewalk and you're like, yo, you want to go to Australia? I'm like, what? I said that?

Yeah. You like, do you want to go? And I was like, yeah. And you're like, all right, yeah, let's get you a ticket. And I was like, do I have to pay? You're like, no, I'll pay for it. I was like, what? Were you going to pay for me to go to Australia?

And you're like, yeah, it'll be fun. And we did all of Australia. And I was like, this is crazy. I remember like my group chat from college being like, Mark, what are you doing? And I'm like, honestly, dude, no idea. I was in such a bad mood the first, like, I don't know if you remember this, but like, I was in a horrible move. Wait, why?

I think I was like jet lag. And like, I don't know, like, it took a toll on me. Yeah, you don't do well with lack of sleep. Yeah, something, fuck. But I remember I was in a bad mood for, like, days. Where did we start? We started in Perth. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, Adelaide. Oh, wow. Flew into Adelaide. And it was like a ballroom thing. Yeah, it was like the second floor of a place, right? Yeah, it was an if he show. Honestly, I bombed that fucking show bad, but it was a lot of people. I was like, for the time, I was like...

In Adelaide? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I remember not liking that show. Yeah, that was a tough one. That was a tough one. Oh, man. I was like sleeping in the green room before you brought me up. And I was like trying to get something to work with the audience

and it just wasn't happening. And I was like, oh, what's going on? But from my perspective, it was like, okay, I did an open mic. And then six months later, I mean, four months later, I was doing a theater in Toronto. And then two months later after that, I was in Australia doing shows. The theater's there. And I was like, what?

is happening. We've told this story before, but was that the trip where Alex and you tried to steal the business class? Oh, yeah. It wasn't in a business class. It was like Economy Plus. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it wasn't even full lay flat. Al just went up there with a face mask. And the Asian ladies were trying to get him to get out. We were connected through Hong Kong on an Asian airline flight. I don't you remember which one. And the lady was just like, sir, you have to go back. They told me immediately. but we assume because of, you know, Alex's blackness

that they were like, oh, we don't want to, we don't want to cause a scene, you know? Yeah, they got you out of there quick and Al just kept waving them off and he got like another hour or two. You've no idea how pissed I was. Yeah, I know. Back there, seeing Al's row empty, he had a full row. Oh, so he could have slept more comfortably back there. Yeah. Oh, you should have taken that row.

Well, I was going to. And then within 45 minutes of me steaming mad in the back of the plane, he just walked through. And then he's like, yeah, they kicked me out. It's like, fuck. Now, we had fun out there. That was a good time. And then COVID happens. Oh, wow.

Basically, yeah. Are we in the Brooklyn studio yet? Just starting that. Just starting that. That was like February 2020. You know how lucky we are, bro? Just thinking about this shit is pure luck. That Brooklyn studio,

I'm looking at studios. I'm going to Queens. I'm going to, like, all these different places. I can't afford anything in Manhattan. I looked at a couple, and like, now I would, do it, but back then I'm like, there's no fucking way. And there was like, I looked at a bunch. I finally looked at that one. I like called my mom and I was like, should I go for it? It's a little bit more expensive, but it's, it is it. It's the one, blah, blah, blah. Moms are you should do it.

You'll figure it out. I'm like, all right. And I'm not even like counting. Like, I don't, I'm like financially illiterate. So like, I just go, okay, I have money in my bank account, so I think I could pay the rent even if we don't make any money. Like, that's how my brain kind of works. And I remember we, I remember I get a message from Ben Uyeda, who's our friend, Ben Uyeda. I don't know how I, maybe I spoke about it. I have no clue to this day. I got to ask him, like how, we should call him right now.

Please, immediately. Which, thank goodness you did. Ben has become like the greatest mentor. Oh, he's incredible. Ideas person ever. I hung out with Ben for like, Like 24 hours. Yo, Yedo, you're on Camp Gagnon with me and Markito.

What's that? You're on Camp Gagnon with me and Mark. Oh, hey, guys. We were just seeing your praises. But before, I have another question that I have to ask you before I get to this. But yeah, I hung out with Ben for like 24 hours before I did my like press run for this special. Mm-hmm. And anything smart, I said,

on that press run was just shit that Ben mentioned me. I did not know. And I just put my like spin on it of course. I influenced the influencers. And and that press run knocked it. I'm talking to all in telling them what to do with the money how they could do. Like literally we would just have

breakfast at the Sunset Tower Hotel. We would just talk shit to each other and just come up with good ideas and then I would just kind of let it rip. Do you remember that a couple weeks ago? It was it's like my favorite thing to do right? Like to just be the fly the wall with all your guys' chaos running around.

I get to be the older. This is, you're Yoda. He really is Yoda. He really is Yoda. Your grandpa Ben. It's fun. Okay. Uncle Ben, Uncle Ben Uyeda, also into Rice.

We have a question for you. Okay, so how did you even find out? We're talking about old back in the day, a flagrant studio, the one that you and Mike Bill. how do you even get in touch with me to the point where we have that meeting at the coffee shop in L.A. Like, how do you even DM me to go,

hey, I'll build this for you? Like, how does that even happen? Remember when Kevin Hart got the Oscars taken away from him? You posted a video. I think you had like 17 to like 20,000 followers at the time. And it was just you looking not as svelte or as well dressed as you do now. like wait hold on we also got to talk about your glow up sometime you know we were just talking about

with our early outfits credit dude we were just talking about and then all of a sudden my sister's like does shultz have someone dressing him now shout out to wifie yeah so anyways uh it was during that time and you posted a whole video about how the point isn't that they want to apologize the point is punishment because you made a point where you're saying he apologized for this. And that was 10 years ago. And it hasn't happened again. He hasn't used that word in 10 years. So 10 years would kind of suggest that he meant the apology because he changed his behavior.

And I saw that video. I think it was just explore play. I think it popped up on my explore page amongst a bunch of other things that we won't talk about. strong women you know you and rogan got the same women I support strong women but and I thought I was like oh this is kind of clever

and it was like mixed in with you just like kind of talking shit and stuff so I like reached out like oh this is like I think I said something's like really insightful and stuff like that and then we were kind of like exchanging sort of compliments just basic digital media stuff and then when you came to L.A. we got like a coffee.

We were just chatting about YouTube. It was just like, it was a little bit before with this general internet pleasantries. And then you're like, hey, I'm thinking about a studio. Oh. You brought it up. You brought it up after like a few other kind of be a little back and force. Well, anyway, thank you. The part of that studio that we never really got to utilize was the lineup where we had that

line right at six feet. I know. I did take pictures of people on that, on the photo wall. Some people are lying. Humboldled a lot of people. Humbolded a lot of people. But no, it was amazing that you guys did that. And like, it wouldn't be possible to have that studio without you guys doing that.

I mean, like, that would, that would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to hire people to do. We literally improve that whole neighborhood. Well, don't forget, there was a robbery that Alex's test. picked up. Do you remember this? Oh my God. In the neighborhood. You know what you want to know a great podcast? First of all, a camp, Gagnon Uyeda podcast would be also great, but just the three of us talking shit.

We got, we got to do a pod where the three of us come talk some shit. At the hotel. Oh, now we're talking. Now we're talking. Okay. Hotel reset. Can you get, can we do a little setup? That's a great idea.

We do a camp episode. We should do a flagrant episode, too. But we do a camp. No, just to promote the hotel. Do the episode bring the whole crew? It's going to be nice, especially the summer. The pool is epic. The whole pool thing is ridiculous.

You just won't send me a single pick. I ask you every single day that I text you. I go, can you send me picks? You won't send me shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, look, Ben Uyette is the last hotel that will be built pre-tariffs. Can you? Bro, you just.

Under the wire. Under the wire. Neo and the Matrix dodging tariffs. And it starts with, okay, no one would have predicted. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. The quality of audio right now

is not high enough to extend this conversation. But I just want to let you know that we love you, and we need to get an episode in, the three of us, immediately. All right. Love your boys.

Bye. Love you, Ben. Say hi to everybody. Peace. Oh, what a legend. He's a fucking. All-time legend. He's just a goat, dude.

I genuinely like hit him up, I don't know, once a month, just to be like, hey, here's where I'm at my life. We just talk. Yeah. He has such good advice. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. And a very, like, sage wisdom.

Oh, and he loves giving it. And he's just very generous with it. Hotel reset, by the way. Go check it out. And then Joshua Tree. I'm trying to think after that studio, we tried the micless setup. That bomb. That's another thing.

We don't talk enough about the shit that we do to go as horribly wrong. It was funny. It was like, we get all this credit for shit that, like, something. Sometimes, sometimes, okay, this is cool. Like, we'll get creative credit for laziness. Like, sometimes we did shit purely out of laziness that people were like, yo, they're, this is crazy what they're doing. Like what?

Like, the turn your phone videos. This is really funny. This is, like, and this is kind of cool, because we had done so much, like, weird, random stuff, like, subtitling a comedy video. Like, nobody thought that that was, like, a thing to do. The way we subtitle, but like, even now, it's better to, like, not kill the punchline.

Like, anybody listens this as a comic, just this is bare minimum. Don't write out your punchline in the subtitle before you say it. Like, that should be an obvious thing, right? Yeah, comedy hinges on surprise. Yeah. And then you tell them the punchline before the surprise.

Somebody reads the whole thing, and then they're looking at your face. Whatever, it doesn't matter. But, like, just figuring out, oh, okay, 90% of people watch Instagram without audio. Like I'd just be on the subway like watching people watch Instagram

and be like nobody's got their headphones and I'm like, oh shit. Yeah, yeah, they're not getting any of this stuff. And like just all these little things that we kind of figured out, like put into the world. And then there are things that we did not figure out. We were just fucking lazy. We'd work our ass off on these turn your phone videos

and then we're like, are we really gonna re-edit the whole fucking video to be vertical? Fuck that. What if we just do turn your phone? your phone and then it was so funny. Like afterwards, there would be people online going, this is a genius engagement hack.

You can't swipe away if the phone is horizontal. Oh my God. No. No. Alex Media was working on Drop Nix. Had seven shows split out of the YouTube cable. Yeah, dude. Yeah.

And then the micless tile. Bro, we spent, I think, and this is at the time, this was like so much money. It's unbelievable. We bought a micless audio system. And it's in that, like, video that you put right there where it was just like a panel. And it was basically made for, like, boardrooms

to have conference calls. And it had these, like, there it is, that thing that's hanging right there. Mm-hmm. At the, on the ceiling above them, it's like right below the lights, that thing right there. So it has, like, eight microphones in it, and they're, like, targeted microphones.

So, like, they say that it can target Mark, and it can target Gabe, and it can target Christos, and it can target me. And because I was like, how do we get microphones away from pods? I thought that was going to be revolutionary. Like, we're always thinking like,

oh, what can we do that nobody's doing? Like, that's the thing holding podcasting back because there's a microphone in the way. You guys want the opposite. You're like, make it horn. Like, make it as long as pop. Like, that will fucking revolutionize the game. And the real idea,

was how do you make it natural? How do you make people not realize they're being recorded? Yeah. And it was funny even like Rogan when he came on the pod, like initially he shit on it. And then after a while, he's like, it's actually kind of cool. Like you're not worried about if somebody's like there's a functionality to have in the lav mic too is you don't have to worry if somebody understands microphone. Yeah. Oh my goodness.

I mean on this show, I mean, the amount of people are just like over here. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the idea with the headphones. It's like you want to hear yourself. And headphones just destroy a podcast to me. I hate headphones. Visually or even in the dialogue?

All of it. It's just wearing them sucks. Like hearing yourself too much you can get self-conscious. Yeah. It's just horrible. Yeah, I think one episode like this came out. And you guys should listen to it.

It is staying clear of the closing door. Like that's the subway guy, the person that gives the announcements on the subway. It was a drive-thru. And it costs 25 grand. You have to understand, like, I put everything that I had into, like, and then 25 grand. I think we were able to sell it back for like five grand or something like that. It was huge mistake. Huge mistake. But it got us where we were trying to go. It got us where we're trying to go. But so many failures along the way. And then COVID happened,

and you did something fire in COVID. I don't even know if I ever even told you. What's that? COVID happens. And then all the shows are canceled. Oh, that's right. We did our last show in Kansas City. Do you remember that one? I think so, yeah, yeah. And I think they had, like, separated some, they'd do the little separation. I remember those last show or the first show?

Oh. It might have been the first show back. Where's our last show? That's interesting. I think our last show is Kansas City, and I think that we were, like, making fun of it. Yep. Yeah, I was making fun of it for sure. Yeah.

You're going to be like, oh, I like seeing things down for a cough, blah, blah, blah. My dumb ass, I remember being like, oh, I like seeing when people have masks. That way you know who's gay from far away. And then it becomes a global pandemic, a thousand people die. Millions of people die. I was like, oops. All right, my bad.

But COVID happens. And then I remember I was in the brilliant news studio. And then you, like, close the door. And I was like, uh-oh. Shoals about to talk to me. This isn't good. And then you go, hey, so I know you were getting some money on the road. And then I'm, you were paying me at the time, like, for the weekly stuff, like, around

the studio. And then you basically said, now that you're not getting. the money on the road, I'll just supplement it out of pocket. Oh, what a nice guy I am. Well, you know, I was that was pre-kid. That was pre-kid, Shultz. And I was like, wait, what? And you were like, yeah, and I'll also just bump it up in general.

So it was an overall pay raise plus supplementing the stuff that I didn't get on the road. Yeah. And I was like, that's crazy. I'd like to let you know that I actually did that out of kindness of my heart or whatever that saying is because I'm not, uh, financially illiterate. So I don't even know if I could afford it. You couldn't. Probably not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This guy will refuse to take a compliment. I try to give him a genuine compliment. He's like, I'm an asshole. I'm like, no, no, no, you're actually a good guy. No, I was saying I'm really good. Like, I didn't even crunch the numbers and make

sure I could do it. But yeah, yeah, yeah, financially negligent for sure. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I remember feeling so self-conscious where I was like, damn. Why? Because I was like, you're paying me this amount of money, which was an insane amount of money in my mind. I was like, to be out of college making this amount of money. I was like, this is crazy. And then being so insecure about it, being like every single day, being like, I have to somehow justify this. Really? Yeah. I was like, this is crazy. Oh, wow. I just thought you were doing so great. You had so many awesome ideas. And like, also just when we were writing those turn your phone things, I thought it was just like, uh, that was so much fun, especially like early. It was just me and you writing these things. And it was just like, it was fun and, and, and, and, and, like,

exciting and like cool learning about shit. Yeah. And then bringing in Robbie. I mean, that was so much fun. Like, writing the script when without jokes sucked. Yeah. But when we got into like punch up mode. Yeah, it was just riffing out.

Oh, I'd shout at F.A. too. Like, poor F.A. was thrown in with wolves. Like, you know, F.A. has never done stand-up. And he's got like the three of us out there who, like, I think are pretty good a stand-up. Yeah. But him to just like maintain his confidence in that thing and like, find ways where he could offer value is just like awesome.

Which I've actually always been here as well. When did FAA first reach out to you? And also, could you explain who F.A. is? F.A. is a Turkish border guard. He's the wall. He's the wall. He's the wall. F.A. Ill guy is a guy who emailed me.

This is back in Brilliant Idiot's Days. And he emailed me. I should look up these emails. And he said something to the extent of like, this is when me and Charlotte made with like, argue so much. It was about all these different things. And it was, it was like so much of these arguments. And there was like, this at the time, like, The Brilliant Idiot's audience was all Charlemagne's fans. Like, some people maybe knew me from MTV's like I could, but you have to

understand it was like radio people who were transferring into pod people. And a lot of these radio people listened to the breakfast club on YouTube. So like the majority of my early career was Breakfast Club fans that became brilliant idiots fans and hip hop fans abroad the only access they had to hip hop abroad like the news of hip hop was dat piff do you know that like blog and then video wise was the breakfast club because they were the first one to put their video out there and it was stolen charlemagne had the genius to be like let them put it out so they put it on the the breakfast club website and then someone would rip it and then put it on a private breakfast club channel not private but like a you know, whatever.

And he had the genius to like understand. He was like, no, no, no, you have to let this thing go. So when I would tour internationally, like, I'm in Sweden and black people are at the show. And that's because these are like the hip-hop fans that found me through brilliant idiots via breakfast club. Right. Right. Where were we? There was a point of bringing that up.

It was. F.A. Oh, F.A. So we would argue on this thing. And like, sometimes, like, I could. couldn't just leave it. And F.A. wrote me this email. He goes, sometimes you got to let the jury decide. And I thought F.A. was Nigerian for some reason. And I don't know, maybe it's because I think Nigerians are all like geniuses or something. But it was like this, like, lawyer-esque email and leaving in the hands of the jury and all these fancy words. And I was like, this guy's got to be Nigerian. Like, I just fucking know it. And it turns out he turned out, and I remember, I think the first time I met him, it was at in England, we were eating at an Indian. Indian restaurant. Were you with me when we were touring?

No, this is when we were filming views. And he came and met us and I was like, who the fuck is this Turkish guy? But yeah, he just emailed me. And like, most of the people that I've ended up working with have just emailed me or message me. Yeah. Like, I don't know that many that haven't. Yeah.

Like now, obviously, things are growing. So we have different people. But like, I've always preferred to work for people who like understand it and believe in it. I mean, the Alex one is the funniest one. Yeah. Alex, Alex made a fake name for himself. Before it was Alex

Media was Alex Anderson And I had done comedy With a guy named Alex Anderson For years At the village lantern This Zen is hitting These Zen is hit in Slap you a little bit

Do you guys know the Alex store? This is hilarious He pretended to be someone else No No Alex chose the name Alex Anderson Randomly I mean like what are the chances of this He texts me

DMs me on Twitter and made a video. And he was like, here's a video of you doing something. It was like something I did. And he like made a creative video about it. And, um, this is like, I think this story is even out there right now. Okay, so this is, so he made this video and I thought it was Alex Anderson, this comedian that I did comedy with for years at this village lantern. So I was, I answered it just because I thought it was him. And I don't think he used, I thought if he had a black dude's face as like the thing, I thought it was Alex being sarcastic.

So I'm messaging him as he's the comedian. And I think he was working for Saifa sounds at the time. And I think he filmed something with Saifa and then like it didn't go well or something. And then Saifa fired him. And then Alex sent me the video and I was like, oh, this is cool, but I would do something differently. And then I needed. someone to film brilliant idiots. So I just hit Alex.

I was like, dude, do you know how to edit? And he was like, of course, I know how to edit. I know everything about editing. Still thinking he was the comedian? No. I thought he was, at this time, I realized he wasn't. And I had met him once. And I was like, do you want to do it?

He's like, I'll absolutely do it. He took the opportunity. He fucking went with it. That's far. It's just a testament. It's like, everybody's like, how, it's who do you know and how do you do? No, it's just fucking ask. Like, every famous person we have on the podcast, like, Mario Carbone is on flagrant this week.

And he, we're like, how do you get a job? He was like, Daniel Ballude, who's this Danielle Ballude, who's his famous restaurateur in the city, he takes his dad for his dad's birthday to one of Danielle's restaurants. And Danielle notoriously goes to his restaurants and works the room. Like, I've been at a restaurant of his, and he knows who's there. He comes and says hi.

He tells you you're the funny. You know, he does the thing. He's, you know. And, uh, he and, and Al, like, he did it. He just, he just, and he not only did it. He didn't ask for the job. He did a job for. free, knowing it could get rejected, it did get rejected, and then eventually he got the job.

Yeah. And if it wasn't that restaurant, it would have been another restaurant. Oh, sorry. So Mario at that dinner gives his resume to Danielle and then calls relentlessly to do it. You, and you didn't tell this story accurately, Miles told me that you planned to open for me and then work for me, that that was all part of your design. Of course, it's in the mind. You know what I mean? It's in your thought process. I'm going to work for him.

I'm going to tell him to go to this burger joint, which I know is closed. And then we're going to go to IHOP and talk about Hitler until 3 in the morning. And then he's going to hire me and later get a haircut inspired by that conversation. Exactly. And then you were like, I'm going to put out a stand-a-special

and then Rogan's going to call me. Right? Got to put it out there in the world. So there is a combination of, like, putting things out there in the world, but also just like doing the work for free. It's like I think corporations take advantage of that urgency, which is like the internship.

And it that's kind of, it kind of sucks in a way because like they've found a way to to profit off of people's like neediness and trying to get a job. But that is how you get a job. You do an internship. Whether you like it or not, you're going to do an internship. Like Mario Carbone like just worked at a restaurant, cutting leaks or whatever he said.

Yeah. And then event, which we should put out as a clip, that's a great clip. Write it down. But he just cut leaks for a week. And then someone goes, you're not working here. Why are you even here? And he goes, well, where do I go? Go to another restaurant that's owned by Danielle and then see if it works.

And then it works. It's amazing. And it's like how everyone gets a job. You just fucking work for free, but not the internship thing. I think that's, I think it's a little bullshit. Internships become pigeonholed because it becomes its own sort of like self-mechanizing thing that people don't necessarily. see. Also, once you agree to do an internship, you agree to not make money from me. So my guilt

goes away. Not mine personally, because I don't really believe in it. But like, the corporation goes, this person has agreed to work for nothing with no outcome. So therefore, they deserve nothing. Yeah. So I'm not like anti-intermship, but I am like, you intern on your terms. Say, don't pay me. I'll just do it. I'll open for you. I'll cut clips for you. I'll do whatever. you're doing an internship without me agreeing to it. And eventually, I'm just like, I got to pay this kid. He's fucking working. Yeah.

But if you do it for Chase, they go, I don't have to pay him. He agreed to work for free. At all high competition positions, like opening for a famous comedian on the road or working at, you know, like Citibank or whatever is going to have a higher, it's going to be more difficult to get the position. 100%. Like, J.P. Diamond said this thing where he goes, or, uh, Jamie. Jamie Diamond. Jamie Diamond says If someone asked for an internship

Oh no, he asked for an internship From someone else I forget who is a major like banking executive And he goes, I'll do it for free And he goes That's above my pay or something like that That's above your pay grade Yeah, it's above your pay grade You should be paying me for the experience

Of being in this environment. Yeah And it's completely true Like even the opportunity to like work with you On the road and getting paid from the clubs Yeah I was way overpaid Yeah

I mean, you weren't. But I was. Like, I got to get experience on the road, become a better comic, learn the entire business, and I was getting paid on top of it. How much would you pay for that? I would pay anything. And then I got paid. I was like, this is crazy.

This guy has no idea what he's doing. When I first did like the 4-4-1, I think I spent like 50 grand on it or something like that or 40 grand. I got these guys Manhattan Productions. They were awesome. They edited it and they made it better and they filmed it and they did all the things. Like it was filmed beautifully. Like 4-4-1 is filmed beautifully.

Like high-level shit. I had two production teams running at the same time. Especially at the time for YouTube. At the time, it was in 4K. It was like, like, look at the production value. That kind of shot does not exist on YouTube at the time. Like, it just didn't exist. I don't even know if we uploaded it in...

I don't know if YouTube even had 4K. It might have been like 720 or 1080 was the top, right? But look at a shot like that doesn't exist. Like, that's a normal shot. But those side shots where shit is moving, it just didn't exist on YouTube. Yeah, it'd be on Netflix. Because I had like a real production company do it.

And the goal was sell it to Netflix. I would have paid them to put it on. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. I was like, if I get it on, it's over. And obviously they weren't interested at the time, which I get. It's like, who the fuck am I?

Like, I'm trying to, I have no leverage. I can't sell you anything. Like, anyway, do it for free. But don't do an internship. Yeah. Offer to do it for free. Mm-hmm. But on your terms.

internship portals and stuff, I never did that. It was like, yeah, submit your thing for an internship. I tried to get an internship at the Snitza. Did you ever tell you? You told me you got one at Bob and Tom. Like, you did a bunch of them. Yeah, yeah. Well, it was always that kind of thing where like I knew someone or I cold emailed someone.

I was like, hey, I'll do it for free. And then all of those ended up turning into paid opportunities because they were like, oh, you're doing a good job and you're working hard. Like, we'll pay you. Because they see like, oh, he's willing to do it for free. It wasn't an internship. I was like, hey, I'll just do it for free. What's up, guys?

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Now let's get after it. And let's get back to the show. Do they know about your Indiana one? When you were living in the church? I don't think I've ever spoken about it here. Do you guys know about this when I was living in the church in Indiana? Yeah, I was living in Indianapolis on Mass Ave in a church because it was the only place I could afford to live.

Underground. And then what the gong would wake you up every morning, right? It wasn't a Chinese church, but yeah, there was a church bell. And it would ding every morning like 8 a.m. And you would hear eight dings. You'd be like, all right, time to wake up. But I'd be up before. I'd be up at 6 a.m.

to go. Bob and Tom was for the Midwest what Rogan was. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. For a comedy. Meaning, like, if Chris Rock

has spoken about this, you go and do radio and crush it on Bob and Tom, you sell out the weekend. So comics would show up, excuse me, that Thursday morning or Friday morning, and you would just fucking...

You sell out the whole week, and you'd be at crackers and the whole thing will be sold out. Then you could hit a whole run. You could go to Bloomington, all that stuff would be sold out. And I knew a dude who was a character actor on the show. And I knew his son because he went to my college. And I was doing open mics and he was like, yeah, you do comedy. My dad is comedy. I was like, what? And his dad, the great, you know, late Donnie Baker,

RIP. Okay. And he connected me with the people over at Bob and Tom. They were like, yeah, you can go up there. And so I was just like doing like production work. They were like, what do you do? I was like, whatever you need? I could figure it out. But you were writing jokes for them too eventually. So that's when I basically asked. I was like, hey, I'm a comic. Is there anyone I can help in the writing team. And they were like, sure, we have like eight writers. And the joke, like the stories that they're going to talk about come out at like 8 p.m. They get sent an email and then just write jokes all night.

And then we'll read them at 6 a.m. when the show starts. Yeah. And so then I got this, they were basically like, yeah, we'll add you the email list. And then I did that for like a week or two. And then my first joke I read by Tom. Do you remember which one I don't even remember. I don't, I just remember listening to the show every morning at 6 a.m. Like, dude.

I was like, I was in the studio. I was like, I would wake up at five. I would do an open mic that. at one and then like wake up at like five take a like they have like these like car like ride share things or at uber or sometimes bike and it was like a 40 minute bike up outside of indianapolis and then you bike up there and then you're in there at six in the morning freezing cold and then he would say a joke that i wrote and i was like this is crazy and then after doing that for like three or four weeks time was like yeah we'll pay a few hundred bucks a week and i was like

that's to write jokes it's like how insane is that and then that was i was able to save money because the church was charged me like 300 bucks a month or 400 bucks a month like live in the basement. Yeah. And then he ended up paying me like five or six hundred bucks a month or something like that. It was like a couple hundred bucks a week. I was like this is crazy. Yeah.

And I was just like, oh, I can actually, because at that point, like you don't even know if you're funny. Yeah. You know what I mean? So the idea that like I was like a year and a half in a standup and jokes were getting red on Bob and Tom. Yeah. Two other comedians.

Yeah. Like Roy Wood came through. Like Roy Wood Jr. came and did the show and like he said a joke that I wrote to Roy. And I was like, this is great. And, like, Roy laughed. And I was like, he has no idea. Like, this is insane. It just blew my mind.

I couldn't believe it. So I did that one and then did the laugh factory. And then I did this thing with North-South productions. They ended up making impractical jokers. So they did a bunch of stuff for like True TV and like intern there kind of. And then linked up with you. And I was like, every one of those was just like, okay, I just knew someone, get in, do whatever they need.

Yeah. And then just try to like build it up. Yeah. And even if you don't know anybody, Just like offer to do some shit. Yeah. Just like a cold email. Yeah.

Like it's people would way rather hire somebody who's just offering to help out. Yeah. And that's actually even a testament to you. Like all the people that have helped out, I've also been around the entire time, basically. Yeah. Like it's pretty wild. Yeah. Like even looking at the people in the studio, it's like Alex, me, F.A.

Like, Dove, Jamil, obviously, you've known forever. But like everyone's in the studio has been there the whole time. Yeah. is like my best friend from college. Jamil's my best friend from high school. Like, Jamil does all our partnerships. You know, Dove is my manager, but like producing partner. And yeah, just I would rather create shit with everybody.

I kind of learned that early on. This is not even, even before career. I was like, there are certain people who have like different friend groups, you know, like there's like, oh, these are my friends here. And I was like, I don't have time to manage all that. Like, you guys got a fine way to get along. So like, all of, there are friends of mine who I've, to other friends and they are closer than I am.

Oh, wow. With them. Yeah. But it was just like, listen, let's all, if I have a moment free, I'm going after this comedy shit. So I knew for a decade, I was, I was gonna have no time. Like I didn't have a birthday party. Like, my birthday is October 30th. So like, I would come back from like doing Foxwoods, comics in Foxwoods or whatever like that.

And it would be like a costume party in my apartment that like Jamil is throwing, you know, with my boy Chris and, whoever else was living in there. And, but yeah, that's the, I wasn't upset about it. Like, I was, dude, yeah, you just got to do shit for free. Comedy is doing shit for free. But you have an ability to assemble people in a unique way that all the people you assemble all generally get along. Yeah, because they're cool.

Like, I've become friends with your friends from high school. Yeah. I like cool people, man. Yeah. And if I don't fuck with you, you're not cool. Like, it's that simple. Like, it's just. Everybody my thing is cool and I really fuck with that they're still around.

And if I don't, man, it is, it is what it is. Like, you know, it's not that you're not cool, but like, it's just, you're grading or something. I don't know. Like, you can't just be with the people. Yes. It's like, when we get to do crazy shit, like the garden or something like that, like, all these things are decades in the making. Yeah.

Like, Dove and I were going to do a radio show in college. I never knew this Yeah we were like yeah we should do a radio show that'd be so cool and now like you know he's producing a podcast you're doing it

yeah like all these things happen and just it just happened and just have you know crazy ideas and I'm running with it I remember even after town hall which apparently that doesn't know

it's in New York yeah probably like 1,200 seats 1500 seats yeah maybe something like that something like that and you were like we're going to do the garden

yeah and at that point it was like Kevin Hart Andrew Dice Clay there's a video dropping in it was dropping in

it's dropping in after we did town hall where I, this is so like, I get it if you're like, what an asshole. After doing town hall, we do a video, it was a dropping in, and at the end of it, I go, I know where we're going to,

I know where we're going next or something like that. Yeah, that one right there. Go to the end of that video. This is insanity. This is so cool. Fucking, look at that outfit. This insanity. I want to say thank you.

To every single one of you that have helped me get this far. This has been an amazing. But listen up. We're not done yet. We got a lot of work to do. I hope you're ready. Because I know exactly where we're going next.

What year is this? Hold on, click, click more. Yeah, 2019. That's crazy. That's wild. Because at that point, again, if you looked up, who had sold at MSG for stand-up in 2019, it was literally Kevin Hart, Dane Cook,

dice clay maybe like maybe a couple others like aziz i think like yeah it was like household names yeah this guy that i'm working with from youtube's like yeah we're gonna do it i was like all right isn't that crazy and i honestly feel guilty for having any skepticism in the moment you told me and i was like maybe like i was like who does that i couldn't see a world where it wouldn't happen that's that's crazy isn't that crazy now i realize that's crazy isn't that weird like now like at that moment i had no security that like what if it didn't happen like how that could be perceived. But I wonder if at that moment like you're like who's even paying attention? Yeah.

I don't know. I don't know why. But I think that's every great ever that does done anything, right? Like I had no question. Isn't that nuts? Like no question. Yeah. Like I remember when we did Radio City, there was a part of me that was like, oh, should we have done?

We did two at Radio City, right? And I was like, so we could have done the garden, like, we could have maybe, maybe done one, maybe squeaked out one. Yeah, maybe squeaked out one, but maybe not. Yeah. And I remember after doing it going like, how am I going to make another hour? Like, I thought that. Like, I was like, how am I going to do it? Like, I don't even know, like, how long will that take and will it be funny?

And then this one happened, which was, like, really awesome. But, yeah, that was just fucking crazy. Look at that fucking insane. The leather shirt is far Also just the pants It's like every episode of Flagon People are like Oh I can see your fucking legs

And so like all right So for radio C you're gonna see a lot of them Like George Washington bro, that's far But yeah it's wild And then now that I'm circling back Like getting I'm now doing shows where I'm getting The deals that you got 10 years ago

How awesome is it though? It's wild Yeah But like There's actually a clip that I'm gonna chop up, but it was a show at governors, which actually sold out.

It was crazy. Yeah. But it, and I should say sold out the way that your early show sold over. It was like, you know, some papers here and there. We call it sold out, man.

Yeah. You got any more water in this motherfucker? Throw me a little water bottle right there. Go on. But I did the show and then a girl was like, oh, I saw you at MSG. And a bunch of people clapped. And then I was like, yeah, now I'm here.

You know what I mean? Like, the circle of life kind of like just goes all the way back around. I mean, yeah, that's the cool fun part. Yeah. Going through that. Also, doing it by yourself, oh, doing it by yourself is very exciting too. You know, like headlining, I imagine, is a different.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, it's, yeah, headlining is kind of, yeah. I mean, it's what stand-up is. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, you do spots in the city and you're like, all right, it's fun. But headlining is, you know what I mean, it's far.

But, I don't know, it's just an interesting full circle. even hearing you talk about how excited you were to do that. Like in my mind, I don't know, like, I get like, I get nervous. I'm like, can I do it? Am I able to do it? But like your excitement of like the come up kind of reinvigorates my excitement to be like, yeah, I'm excited. Like to headline four shows in a weekend is crazy.

Just say the craziest shit out loud and put the pressure on yourself to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Like COVID, I think, made me think like there was. nothing we couldn't do. That made me think there was nothing. You sold a Netflix special. Yeah, but like, do you remember what I told you at that?

When I was like, if we do this for, I was like, if we do this for four months, we will do a net, we will get a, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, isn't that crazy? I think we did 17 weeks. It was like one week off and I was like, we do this for four months, we will get a Netflix special. Yeah. And again, I was like, I get made. I don't know. But there was no question.

I was just. And shout out to Bill Maher. Bill Maher was it was the piece that started that. Yeah. He put out a piece and it was about like why it's, people were saying it was racist to call it like the Chinese flu or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I remember I got sent that piece by like four different generations of people. It was like my wife's stepdad sent it to me.

Maybe you sent it to me. Somebody like around my age sent it to me. It was like, it was like four different generations. And I was like, oh. people are really feeling something that they can't that they don't feel comfortable communicating and we had nothing to lose

like we weren't going for any deals anywhere and we had a whole studio that Benu Yead had built for us like I don't know it just seemed like you would be crazy to not and there was also part of me was like and if we don't it will be bigger we fucked up with that in retrospect

what you mean? The pieces were too long like for never Netflix you mean? For the pace. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I think I was so insecure. I was like, I was like, it got to be undeniable.

Like, everything was always, it's got to be undeniable. You know, like 4 for 1, it was 50 minutes. I made it 14. Yeah. It's got to be undeniable. That's something you always said. Like, even cutting a stand-up clip, like, again, me early on, I'd be like, no, it's good. Like, I think this can go out.

And you go, it has to be undeniable. Yeah. And I'd be like, well, it's good. But you always have that. That's why I never felt. That's why I think you and I connected. We both have the insecurity of it, of it not living up to our expectations of ourselves.

Yeah. And that can be crippling too. Yeah. Like, welcome to the show. Yeah. It can be crippling. Me and Gabe are going through stand-up clips, and he's like, oh, that's good.

I got that sucks. Yeah. It's like a joke I've been in for seven years. I'm like, no, that sucks. And that's the importance of posting regularly. Mm. Like, even if I don't post something for, like, a week or something on my Instagram, I feel like there's a pressure on the thing I post.

If I'm posting shit daily, it's like no pressure. I don't care. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it doesn't tomorrow we got heat. Or it's like, it doesn't matter. Like, oh, this didn't do, this will do whatever. But like waiting time, you just put so much. Builds up and builds up and builds up.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the kind of a Rick Rubin thing. Like, just live creatively. Just make stuff, put it out there. Make stuff put it out. Make stuff put it out. Yeah.

And I'm trying to do that now where I'm like, even looking at stand of it. I'm like, I'll always tell you. You just got to put it out. Put out some shit that sucks. And then see how people don't care that much. You know what I mean? Like your standard for yourself is already going to be 10 times higher than everybody's. That's why I always felt comfortable creating with you because I didn't, I could like,

I could, I could go, yeah, like, Mark will make the right decision because he's as insecure about this doing badly as me. Yeah. Where there's other people that you create with where you're like, they don't have that insecurity. And that's why like even editing a Netflix special and just, or not a Netflix special, but like, because we edited that, but like handing off a special to a random editor who's a good guy.

Yeah. But he's got other shit he wants to do. Matter of fact, he wants to be a screenwriter. So he's working on his screenplay. He's not working on your Netflix special. Where we're painstakingly, like, looking at every single line.

Those pieces that we did, like people don't even know this. We would adjust the speed. Like, people don't even realize this. Yeah, like, this part's a lot of like kind of like set up and sort of expository stuff. Go one point. but then adjust the tone of the volume so they don't,

or not the volume, like the tone of the voice. Like the pitch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like putting the pictures on the punchline so they don't drop before and then it was so funny watching like the networks start to like, they weren't, we didn't invent something, but they would adapt to what we were doing. You could feel it and they didn't even know.

It was just some editor there going, oh, this is working. Let me see if I do this, maybe I'll get some credit at, you know, Oliver or Tim Muller, but I would internalize all the criticism. Like there was ever like a comment that was like, oh, I think they missed it with this one. Or like, this line was a little off.

Yeah. I would be like, oh, fuck. Yeah. I would like lose sleep. I was like, my wife would be like, what's wrong? I'm like, just this line. I just feel like we didn't word it. But this is one of the reasons why that show is so magical.

Is that, um, you, you were like, it's got to be sliced right. Mm-hmm. And you would like, you were like, uh, they could say this.

or they could say that, or they could say this. Yeah. Right. And I'll be like, it's the Chinese fault. You know what I mean? Well, technically, they're from the Han dynasties. Yeah, but, and then like, but you need, like, you needed whatever I got in my head that makes me go, I'll just say it.

And I needed you to be like, well, it's specific. If we go, like, right here, this. And I learned a lot even through that process, it's like, it's got to be, it's got to. this is the reality of what made that show so good, is that the truth is boring. Mm-hmm. But we had jokes that made the boring truth interesting and fun.

More importantly, you could take the truth and make it digestible. Yes. So, like, I would be on the phone with my college professor, be like, hey, dude, how do we break this down? And you're like, hold on, hold on. It's like this. Yeah. And then all of us would kind of be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But, like, you would take a difficult to understand concept and then put it into, like, a sentence. I can explain smart shit to dumb people and I could explain dumb shit to smart people. Yeah. I'm like an intermediary for them. You know what I mean? Yeah, you're intellectual bisexual.

Yes. So it's like, Uyeda can tell me some like really fucking smart-headed shit. And I'll be like, all right, I get it. Nobody's going to understand the way you say that. Well, actually, Uyed is amazing with metaphors. He's like, we're really gifted in that way. Like, he'll be like, it's like this. And I'm like, that's the best joke that's ever been said.

Like, but usually people with that level of intellect, Vivek is an issue with it. He don't know how to communicate shit to dumb people. He's too smart. Yeah. And it's like, I know what you're saying and I can make it digestible. Yeah, I think it's in New York thing. Yeah, maybe. Because you're growing up around all different types of people, right?

Like, you'll go to school and there's like the hedge fund kid that like, you're like, all right, he's smart, da-da-da. Then you go play ball and there's a guy that doesn't, you know, he didn't go to the same schools, but you can know how to talk to him. I might just be just smart enough to understand smart people and just dumb enough to communicate to dumb people. Like I might be in that whatever that is, like that perfect like Venn diagram.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you have some jokes in there. But that, this is what I, it's like, what we were doing was wildly not edgy. Like, it was edgy because we were saying crazy shit. But if I would really dissect it, it wasn't that edgy. The jokes were edgy

But the point of view The reason why I was so crazy At least what I felt at time was so successful Is because it was sliced so thin And you deserve so much credit for this It was like it was sliced so thin And we were not lazy about that at all It was sliced so thin

That like the most conservative person And the most liberal person Would have to be like That's kind of how I feel Yeah, it was sensible And that's boring Sensibility is boring But if you add jokes

It's funny Yeah And it was just this like magical combo I remember I think Rogan reposted one And he tagged me in it Jason Mamoa

It was everybody And yo shout out to Rogan Because he blew that fucking thing up Yeah and that's another cool thing about Roeer I mean every you know he's just He always like supports things that he really loves And like

He shows a lot of love But like He tagged you in it, huh? I couldn't believe it. Like, I got an Instagram like notification, like, Joe Rogan tagged it. I was like, what did I do? And then it was a piece and I was like, this is crazy. Like, again, a year before, I was doing open mics graduating college. Yeah, yeah. And then like a year, year and a half later, Joe Rogan's tag me, I was like, this is insane.

Like, I just didn't think it was possible to do. Yeah. And then it was all happening. I was like, I can't. I remember being in the park. I was literally in Central Park with my wife. I was just like, yeah, you got. Just, yeah, Rogan attack. I knew that shit was going to kill. I just, fucking. I just knew it, bro. I was like, everybody, nobody's doing anything, and they have nothing to watch.

And now these fucking, these networks with the 50 cameras and 100 writers, like, they got to compete with us. Do you remember where they tried to poach you? Who? I don't know if we can. If you want to edit this out we can, but Trevor Noah called you. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They didn't try to poach. They just wanted, he wanted to produce a show.

But he was like, yo, let's get you on TV. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was cool with Trevor. It was cool with Trevor. But then you were like, I was like, I don't like, yeah, like how, can we do this on TV? Yeah. It's crazy the shit that we were saying at that time.

And this is, I do have a lot of empathy for Joe because like a lot of the shit that he says eventually becomes normalized, but he gets a lot of shit for when he says it in the moment. Yeah. I still get people like if, if anybody says anything complimentary in like a, like a respected, you know, journal or whatever. They have to say, he got a lot of heat for saying the Asian jokes or whatever. Yeah. The Asian jokes were literally, COVID came from Asia.

And it did. But there's, it's so funny. It's like once you get like a sting. Yeah. They'll never like remove it even if it was right. And then slowly the culture started like John Stewart came out. When Stewart did that, everybody, when Stewart was on. What show was it?

It was on... I think it was Fallon? No, no, Colbert. And Colbert is like shaking. He's like, what the fuck is happening right now? And then he just said the most on... And he had the trust to the people, but he said just the most honest, simple thing. Yeah.

You know, we're doing COVID studies at the gain of function, COVID... Yeah, yeah. In Wuhan, China. Yeah. And the name of the facility. Yeah. And then everyone kind of got on board. Yeah.

And then now I think the Congress put out a report and they were like, yeah, Yeah, we called it the woohonic play. And they called those races for that shit. Yeah, yeah, fucked up. Not wild. And it's like, look, I mean, it's true. Bro, we had, that was so much fun. And, yeah, and people were like, why'd you stop doing it?

And, uh, because it, it wasn't needed. Mm-hmm. The only time I felt like it was needed again was, is honestly now. Yeah. Like, before that, it was like, it's not needed. Like there was no like when Biden came in everything kind of calmed down and like no one was that like infuriated by shit. I was like, okay, it's not like if we do it now, it will just seem like we're trying to grab on an issue every week. Yeah.

That was the other thing. Like these shows that got to do shit every day, there's nothing to talk about every day. Yep. Like we would. They got sponsors. They got ad commitment. That da-da-da. Staff.

Find some shit. You got to find some shit. Yeah. And then you become the shows that seem like so much. And then it's easy to find some shit every day that's just like, oh, this is the conservative thing or this is the liberal thing. Yeah, what's working? And then you kind of lean in. Yeah.

But we were like, what is the issue? And it would be hard. We'd spend the first three days of the week going, what's the topic? Yeah. Once you have an issue, then you can kind of build it out. You'd write some jokes. Finding the issue is a hard part. Brutal.

There'd be times where it would be Friday and we have no issue. Right? Like, yeah. But I think some of those pieces were the ones that did the best. which is interesting. That like women's soccer one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like the, I forget what it was.

It was like something about like Takashi 6, 9 and Trump. Oh, that was great. Yeah, when you, when you, uh, oh, fuck. Oh, was this the one? Oh, no, no, the Takashi one, it's like, uh, when you want to, when you want fast content with something, something, oh, the last line of it was, go to the, go to the end. This shit was fired.

There's also a cool little. dictates success today. Clout. And Trump and Takashi are clouts. They have an unbelievable ability to garner attention. And in the age of social media, attention, whether good or bad, is the only requirement for victory. The marketplace is dominated by clicks and shares. And as a result, we don't always get the best person for the job. We just get the person that grabs the most attention. And maybe that's what we deserve. We're a society that domain. to be entertained every moment of the day for free. This is what we ask for. When you want a circus, you exalt the clowns. So enjoy the show. No, no, no, watch this, watch this, watch this. There's like a few seconds of black, right?

Yeah. The point of the few seconds of black before the video ends is so that you look at yourself. So you're reflected in whatever screen you're watching. And the hope is that you'd be like, oh, is that me? Yeah. Yeah, it's you. Yeah.

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Scan the QR code now or click the link in the description to sign up for today. Yeah, that one was far. And that was one that was one that I think we cooked up, like, on a Friday. Yeah. Like, we were dropping them on like what? Sunday. Sunday.

And it was just like, there's nothing coming out. There's no shows. There's nothing. It was like us and the last dance. And it was, and you know what? I liked about it, it was like, we got to put 100% focus on one thing. Yeah. Yeah, that was kind of nice.

Oh, that is just so... Even in Miami. 100% focus on one thing. I can do... I can do two... I can do one thing the best. I can do two things really good. And that's it.

Yeah. And we were doing... Like, the pod was good. good at this time, but I think the pod was floating on some of the success of these grants. Like, it was always good. We were, like, chopping up and, like, fun. The pod was, I think, the best when we, after Infamous and we were doing the new studio

and that run was crazy. And it was like, I wasn't doing stand-up. We were going all in all. And it was just insanity. And then I had to take time to build out the stand-up. And then I, I mean, like, I'm biased, but I think the show that we put together for this last tour. And I mean, from top to bottom, I mean, like, Derek, you made the experience they got the

show, I think it was just the best that you would see. It seems braggadocious, but, like, I genuinely believe, like, you come out for a night of comedy. And that hour and a half, we give you from the intro video to the fucking end, it was like, I'll put that up against anything else that's out there. But we got to put all of our attention on one thing. And it was just insanity. Yeah.

Yeah, it was far. I mean, I'm curious, actually now. Now it would crush. I think about this all the time. How do we? Yeah, like, now is the time. Like that kid who got, or I don't know what they're a kid,

but like the, the El Salvador shit. Yeah, like just what's happening? Video breaking that down and also the amount of jokes would be, but like, MS-13, sounds like a code name for like an Epstein Island or. Miss 13. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like New York City middle school, I think.

Yeah. Lockeet, yes. But, but yeah, just like, now we're in that information bubble where it's, it is a Trump effect where it's just like, anything he does is going to be met with immediate rejection. And like sometimes he does shit that like deserves the rejection. And sometimes he does shit that doesn't. And like, you just deliver the truth on that thing. And who can be honest and slice it. And who doesn't care enough?

Yeah. Because everybody else got to care. Mm-hmm. You have your audience. you have your sponsors, you have, you have people you speak to, and most importantly, like, people are like beholden to their audience.

Yeah. And the beauty of this was like, this didn't have an audience. It was just whoever was watching. It's not like we were appeasing the group of people that day. Yeah, it was just what is the truth? There's no audience.

It was just like, we weren't targeting a person. It was like, this is the story. And if you never listen to another thing, but you listen to one thing that week, it was because you were interested in it. Yeah. It was a really fascinating, But now is the time.

Like this is the only time that made me go, like, if we get everything else in order and we really build out a team and like we could fucking... Are you excited to get back into stand-up mode? Not yet. Really? Because like you haven't,

even in like the new, like, political era? I haven't been on stage in months. Yeah. And then even before that, it was just the hour you've been working on for months before that. Which was like really personal. It was nothing about what was happening in the world.

But now, it feels like everything's different. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out, like, what the thing is that I really want to talk about. Yeah. And, like, it will happen eventually, but I don't want to force it. Mm-hmm.

And I feel like I just, I'm, like, I'm excited about the pot again. Like, this week was, like, fun. Yeah. Like, it just felt like back in the day, like, we were just, yeah, just, like, really kind of organizing and figuring that out.

But there's always a part of me that goes, because these pieces make no money. It's the worst form of content. It's three to five minutes. So you can maybe put one sponsor on it. And it takes 25 hours of work. It takes minimum. It's insane amount of work.

It's the worst form of content. And because of that, it's the best piece of content. Yeah. Like anything that looks like it took way too much work for what you could make money on it feels the best. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a short film. You know what I mean?

It's like some students spent like a year of their life making the stop motion thing. Yeah. That's only 12 minutes long. But that's oftentimes the stuff that you're like, holy shit. Yeah. It's so distilled. I mean, are you thinking of bits now? No.

I haven't thought of a single joke. Isn't that crazy? I don't believe that. I just don't believe that. Swear to God. I'm sure it's like in there and you're like. Not one. Like maybe I'll have a note.

Let me see if I have a note. Does that ever depress you when you open your notes out and you're like, haven't been edited for a month? That'll happen to me sometimes. I'm like, ah, fuck. I haven't put anything in here in four weeks. This is not good. Oh, let me say, right.

Nope. Ukraine war? Yeah, it's like, I'm like, what do I have to really figure out? I also got to get tapped into culture. Like, I've spent a while, like with the pod, you get to do it, but. I feel like this pod run going to all sorts of people, then you get to know what people are feeling. Yeah. And like, it was interesting.

I had like a, I called up Hassan Piker the other day. Because I watched the, did you watch the Dave Smith? Douglas Murray? Douglas Murray. Do you watch, it's really interesting. And there was like a moment of it, like, really. I mean, we spoke about a little bit, but like, it was a moment of it, like, really, like, and I hit Rogan up about it. And it was like, um, like, Douglas Murray was talking to, to Rogan and also, like, talking to Dave.

And he was doing this thing about, like, experts. And it's like, you say you're an expert, then you don't say you're an expert. And then he was saying, like, Rogan doesn't have enough people on. And I hit up Rogan. And I was like, listen, Douglas was. was like tiptoeing around something, and not tiptoeing is wrong, but he was like close to something,

but it wasn't actually there. And not to be critical of Douglas, but like the point wasn't really there. And which is like, it's not about whether you consider yourself an expert or not. That's actually unimportant. It's like, Rogan, us,

like, we don't consider ourselves the news. So we entertain, and so I hit up Rogan, I was like, so we entertain these people who are far, more absurd because we're comedians who like absurd shit. Yeah.

So we don't hold ourselves to the journalistic standards of the news, assuming I'm being very generous with the news. Let's just assume I'm being generous with the thing. I know Ari commas with the news is fake. Yes, of course, blah, blah, blah. But the idea would be is that like if you're going to print something, it would have some journalistic integrity. Let's, let's, what is that?

Give the best case scenario. Whereas like, we don't. Like, we'll have Billy Carson come on. and we know he's full of shit and he's fun, full of shit. Yeah. And we're treating him almost like our comedian friends. We're like, yo, be fun, full of shit.

Like, this is entertaining. We tell him straight up, yeah, we're not going to fact-checking. We're not fact-checking. And that's our way of communicating to the audience. Like, all this is lies and it's fun lies. Or some of it could be true, but we're not going to check. We're just going to enjoy this. The problem is, and this is not to, like, escape culpability here,

but, like, at some point in time, we became the news. Rogan, to a lesser extent, us, other podcasts. We just became the places where people got information. And that's dangerous because we don't want to be the news. We want to talk to crazy people. So crazy people became normal. And that's why everybody's obsessed with conspiracy and everything because we're like, yeah, that's the most fun.

It's magic tricks. I know it's fake. I still want you to do it. Yeah. I know wrestling's fake. I still want to watch it. Yeah. But we, I guess in a lot of ways, normalize this stuff.

And we never felt responsibility because we're like, we're not the fucking news. Yeah. We're comedians. Yeah. But at a certain point of time, and I was just trying to like, you know, like hold myself, you know, accountable. I was like, when a certain amount of people, when more people watch you than the news, are you the news? Hmm.

And then even if you say you're not, like what responsibility do you end up having? Mm-hmm. I mean, I think, I mean, we've always been forthcoming with guests that are fringe. Yeah. Right? Just been like, like, yo, we're not going to co-sign everything.

Just take us on a ride. Take us on a ride. But at the same time, like, you can't expect, I guess, the listener to just assume it's a ride, especially when these things are so much more interesting and digestible. It's like we were saying before, like when we did that show that was like what we, after our research,

thought was like the, at least the emotion or the sensibility of people. And then we made it funny with jokes. But the emotion or sensibility was like really hard to get to. And we had to like read documents and like ask a million different fucking people and call up all these. It's like we had to fact. It was like boring.

We don't do that with a podcast. You just let someone come on and say whatever. And I guess we assume that that's okay because it's like that's what I'm interested in. It's my show. And you should be allowed to do that. This America where it's a free country, we're allowed to do whatever the fuck we want. But there's no way the news can. Now, the news also fucked up.

They put out tons of fake shit. They promoted propaganda. They lied to us. They are responsible for our loss of faith as well. But their fuck shit. mix with our interesting shit you can't compete it's almost like the shitty standup that was happening

and then you know we were putting out cool shit on YouTube like of course people are gonna go watch it on YouTube the history channel right like the history channel for years was just like this war that happened in Peloponnesia da da da da da da da da da this is exactly how it happened and now it's just like yo aliens did all of it you know what I mean

it's like yeah that's way more interesting yeah they're going for the views yeah wow the history channel has become all aliens huh yeah 100% if you look up like history, discovery, all these channels. Yeah. It's just like the most interesting shit, unfortunately. But like...

Oh, Netflix put out the whole Graham Hancock thing. It's full of shit. And I imagine, it is. And like, I like the fullest shit. I went to the pyramids specifically. But it's full as shit. Yeah. Like Ben-Uyeda got the best, uh, the best way to look at this.

He goes, you got to understand, like back in the day, we're talking about 4,000 years ago. There was no back. basketball. So Steph Curry back in the day was the Steph Curry of making shit. So you figured out how to move big heavy blocks in the sand because he couldn't play basketball or he couldn't do, I don't know, whatever fucking Darwin was doing or whatever. All the smart people back in the day built shit. Yeah. They didn't have time to do anything else. And when you put all that brain power towards one specific thing, which is making this tall thing that's pointing at the top, you'll figure it out. That's the most likely scenario. There's also hubris that we assume that people 1,000, 2,000, 3,000 years ago.

Couldn't do this shit. Yeah, they're so dumb. Only we can do things. Agreed, 100%. So, I don't know, there was this moment. So I hit up a son. I was like, I was like, what is your take on this? Not the Israel-Palestine shit, but like, what is your take on the idea of like information

and disseminating information and the responsibility and the idea of like us entertain these people? And he was like, yeah, it's like, I think that that's a lot of times what maybe the left has complained about, maybe the right is complained about it too, like platforming and these types of things. And whenever I looked at that, I, I rolled because I didn't see like the downstream effects of it. But now I see just how popular conspiracy is. It's almost like annoying. It's so mainstream. And I think a lot of times, like, we'll hear one story about the CIA and we'll be like, now it looks like I'm a propaganda for the CIA. But like, like, you hear one story about the CIA or 10 stories about the CIA. And like, the whole CIA is bad. And it's like, some of these

motherfuckers probably stop some bad shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're, also might be a fringe group that exists within these organizations that do bad shit. So, yeah, and they're responsible also for their bad shit. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to put all the responsibility on us, but it is an interesting time that like none of us really wanted, like we wanted, you know, fun, crazy interviews and talking to wild people and big YouTube views and success and, you know, like, provide for our families and like go do stand up and say crazy shit. That's what we want. We weren't like, we're going to be the people who disseminate information.

I mean, maybe when we were doing that YouTube show, but definitely not one more podcast. Yeah. I mean, we got the mayor on and we're like, yo, build a strip club. There's no way that somebody's trying to be like discipline with the truth that doesn't have comedic chops, which these news people don't, can compete with that. Of course we're not going to watch Fox for CNN compared to watching Rogan or compared to watching us or Theo or Tim Dillon or any of these guys.

It's more entertaining. But is that more honest? Like, does it appeal to, like, what is truly human? This is where, like, this is where, like, I try, I hate this fucking, like, this is this, like, Ivy League. Not you're not being, but, like, my answer would be this, like, Ivy League pretentiousness where it's like, we have to be careful for the people out there and the information we give. It's like, I don't think we do. I think people have to, you know, discern information for themselves. And yes, it is more honest.

but if it becomes the news or if it becomes the information, it is very easy for people to get radicalized. Maybe that's even a strong word, but it's very easy for people to just kind of believe all these things. The amount of things I believe just off of the headline and then I go, why don't I believe that?

Of course. That's what I believe. Yeah, all of us. Yeah. I had a conversation with a friend yesterday that we were all talking about like George Soros. We're like, yeah, he's bad. He's bad, but I don't know why he's bad.

I don't know. And I did a deep dive and I was like, yeah, he funded a bunch of DAs. And then he also like, bet against the British pound or some shit. It made a bunch of money.

Why do we care about the British pounds? Didn't we try to destroy them? Yeah, yeah. And this, that was my thing. It was like, okay,

funded a bunch of liberal DAs. I'm like, did he do it to subvert America? I'm like, I don't know. That's where the conjecture comes in. That's the idea. But it's like,

well, but he might just be a liberal guy. Is he the, the, oh, yeah, take. He's like, he's the liberal Koch brothers. Yeah. So the Koch brothers have been funding all these a conservative think tanks. They fund

conservative programs. They, you know, they're trying to push their idea of the world into the world. Yeah. And what if he's also trying to do that? And what if he just has bad ideas? Like, is it possible he's just like a misguided guy with a lot of money that has bad ideas? It's possible. And if what if he's a misguided guy that has bad ideas with a lot of money? And can implement those ideas really effectively with that money. Is that bad? Or he's trying to destroy America from the inside out so that he can make a global order? But then where's he going to live? You don't want to live in not America. So it's like let's say let's give best case in there. He's a misguided guy. And like he doesn't think he's misguided guy. But let's say he is. He's a misguided

guy. He's got bad ideas. And he's got tons of money so he can implement and even force some of those ideas on people who don't want them. Right? That's us, too. It's not, it's not, but is it like? At its core, not to the same degree. We've only got billions of dollars, but at its core. We've got way more effective tools than him.

Yeah, I mean, you can get DA's election, which goes, you know, politically a farther way. Yes, of course, of course. The point being that, yeah, we feel the same way that we want to see the world reflected in the way that we view it. I think all people do. I know he just happens to have much, but it's going to look like. like I got tapped by my Jewish handler. You know, the reason why I should stop the pod is because he got tapped by his yama guy,

he's getting too close to the truth. The A-PAC boys had to stop it down. But this is why those pieces we did were so fucking effective because we would do a piece about this specifically. Mm-hmm. And present George Soros, but also present the Koch brothers

or present who funds Shapiro shit. Like, yeah. whatever, whatever rich person funds that. But now it's just a bunch of people just being like, oh, I hate that guy or I like that guy based off who they're funding. I'm like, are they trying to destroy America

or are they just people with ideas? And some of them are good or bad? The people that paint the world as good and evil will get the most attention. Yeah, it's simple. It's so simple, and it makes me feel so good to just organize the world in that way. I think we did a piece about this.

about the conspiracy stuff when we did the Netflix thing. And that piece holds, the reason, I think the issue with the pieces for Netflix, by the way, is that we did like four, 15 minute. If we did like, which were the initial idea, like five minute pieces, like eight, five minute. Yeah. But it was just too much research and work to do it.

But like, I think they also had a minimum. I don't think, I think we could have done it. I think we changed it. Oh, really? Yeah, I think we was like, yeah, there's no, it's so hard to do each one of these pieces. We have to do longer about. We can stretch it.

Yeah, because we do all the research so I can make it 15. Yeah. But we can't, whatever, it doesn't matter. But like, yeah, if we did, I forgot we were talking about. No, what was it? The piece on conspiracy. Oh, yeah.

Conspirators are just anything. Like this piece, like, is George Soros bad? Like, or is this person bad? Or is this, do these people really feel this way about the world? And they're trying to make the world a better place in their view. I mean, if you ask the Koch brothers, they're not, I imagine, even if it makes them more money, they think this is a better way. for other people to make money, maybe.

I don't think, I don't attach nefarious intent. I don't try to. Like, there are obviously horrible human beings out there. Yeah. And I think they're not even justified by like a better good in some weird, convoluted way. Yeah.

You told me about the Rockefeller thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and he was highly motivated by trying to amass as much wealth as possible, but kind of thought he was doing it a benevolent way where he was helping people and he was, you know, creating HBCUs and doing what he thought was right and shaping the world in his image,

which is how the world, world has gotten to where it is now by people with ideas making in their image. Is it good or bad? It just is. And I feel that way just like in general. I don't know. I think it's easy to paint the good and evil, but it is just a marketplace of ideas and people trying to make those ideas manifest in real life. Yeah. And that is like the best way of looking at it. Unfortunately, that's not how we consume things. And again, it's not up to us to decide how people view the world. And we should assume a lack of intellect or curiosity in people. I think that's wrong. I think that's the Ivy League shit where like they're too dumb to know what they want. We'll help them. And in general,

I feel like the marketplace does a decent job of correcting, generally speaking, so long as that there's open information. Like you have Billy Carson, for example, that comes out, says a bunch of stuff, becomes controversial. And you have someone like Wes Huff that comes out and says other stuff against those ideas. Yeah. And then his ideas win. And then maybe someone also come along and have other ideas that kind of slice it those ideas. And I hope that it generally progresses. I think like the echo chambers, and obviously algorithmically this occurs, but I'm hoping that with open discourse where people can actually engage with each other's ideas, I hope that people are able to kind of sense out the bullshit. I think the problem is that with the algorithm, there is no

longer this kind of open marketplace. Yeah. It's like, you're served the most salacious shit. Yeah. And that's what you actually want. That's what I want. Mm-hmm. And that's what I read and that's what I'm interested in. And you're not really seeking out the other opinion. And you might not do that because you're busy. You got three kids. You're like, you know, I got one time for one opinion. And it's probably the opinion that I already feel and I just want to justify.

And, yeah, I don't know. Like, I think we've tried to like, yeah, we tried to like showcase different voices. We tried to have different opinions just off of our own curiosity. I think we've done a good job of that. But it is a thing. It's like, let's say you got 100 million people to listen every single week. I imagine that might change the way

that you put out content. Yeah, probably. Yeah. Not probably. But I guess my hope would be that I could offer adequate enough pushback and by creating a, once you have like that amount of people, you're not existing in one singular echo chamber that you can entertain a bunch of different ideas

all within that same audience to then hope that the best ideas win. You hope, bro. Yeah. You hope, but then you have a family and you're like, I don't want to go on vacation, bro. I don't want to research why George Soros is good, maybe. You know what I mean?

Like, that's an annoying thing to do. What we did was annoying. Yeah, but it also felt good. It gets me going a little bit, though. It's exciting, and it's one of the reasons why you're so good at it, but it was hard. Yeah. Like, think about how hard it was,

to find the truth. Yeah. We had to look up the court case for the women's soccer team. Compare their initial ask versus what they asked after they got their initial ask. Compare that to the men's collective bargaining agreement.

We're looking at court docs. We're just a couple assholes with a studio in Brooklyn that an Asian guru built for us. What the fuck? Like there's no way CNN's doing that. Because it's easier to just be like, women are great and you should pay them. And it's easier for Fox to be like, ah, these fucking girls are just asking for shit and they don't deserve it.

It's so much easier. Yeah. But I feel like, at least for me, I, in general, to a fault, have an aversion to certainty. Yeah. Whenever I hear someone's like, this is what it is. In all things, even the most fundamental things that I hold dear, I'm still like, maybe it's not. Yeah, that's why you're good. The things I'm most certain about in life

are like 99%. They're not even 100. That's why you're good. That's why you believe in demons, though. There's an open-mindedness that goes with them. We're like, all right, there's a percentage chance. Yeah. But that's why people will trust it.

And when we were doing that, like, it was, I don't want to lament too much on people doing it, but like, it is just an interesting time in history. Like, I don't even know if this has ever existed before. You had to have a printing press and the ability to, like, make, a thousand newspapers. Yeah.

Make a book. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're just four guys talking shit. You know? Yeah. And when we decided to do the thing that was like, hey, we will stand behind everything in these pieces. And if we get it wrong, like, we'll admit it.

We did. Remember when we fucked up that one thing? We fixed it. Yeah, we cut it up. For the Netflix thing. And it's like, yeah, it was a, that was hard work. Like after doing it, I was like, I see why these motherfuckers don't do this shit.

But that's when you stand on it. Could you entertain something be like, all right, maybe, I don't know. Motherfuckers don't care. I had a fact checker call me from this one piece that they did on me for the thing. And like, this fact checker called me and I said, nah, I didn't say that. And he called me again. And he was like, well, the author thinks you said that. So are you sure you didn't say it?

And I'm like, yeah, I didn't say it. Stop trying to print the shit that makes you feel good for your article when I'm telling you what the facts are. But that's a lack of journalistic integrity. They don't have it. That's, yeah. So then the question is, do these shows that, you know, have commentators that maybe are not experts, but are open-minded, but also, you know, having adequate pushback that have an aversion to certainty, are they more journalistic, like, journalistically?

What shows are those? Like a Rogan, I guess. Like, if he's going to talk with someone, he'll, like, have pushback and he'll kind of, like, entertain a bunch of different ideas. But, you know, he's going to be, he's going to let good ideas rise at the top. Well, I think that's why he was able to have. so much success. Mm-hmm.

It's because he was able to have these tough conversations that had, like, tons of scrutiny with people that a lot of different networks would never even platform. Mm-hmm. And that takes a lot of bowls to do that shit. Yeah. And also takes, like, a genuine, like, curiosity and things. Yeah, and, like, a financial security. You know what I mean?

Like, he starts the show after he's, you know, made millions of dollars to a fear factor and stand up, and he's good. So you know he's doing it because he just wants to do it. But that shit is hard. Yeah. And you have all. all these other political commentators now that are like, I gotta keep the lights on.

And everything's reaction video. Like, it's just people reacting to shit. Right? It's just people reacting. Yeah. I find myself watching reaction content to know what's going on. Yeah.

Because you trust the person of reacting that they're going to react in a way that you think is sensible. And then you just hope that they're not feeding what you already want and that they're actually going to be genuine. I don't know. It's got me thinking, bro.

Like, how many? Yeah, how much, it's got me thinking. What responsibility do you have? I never thought we had any responsibility for anything. I didn't even realize, like, I thought by saying that, I was more just like acknowledging my humility. You know what I mean? Like, I was like, yeah, I don't think we got Trump elected at all.

I think that's what people thought. I think some people interpreted that as like trying to skirt responsibility. No, I was just being humble. Yeah. Like, I don't think that I could affect. 3050 million people, like, we're going to sway it? Yeah. I also think that when things don't go well, you're looking for someone to blame.

Yeah. Yeah, of course. Or not go well, go your way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, who's at fault? Yeah, who are the people that, you know, put this thing that I don't like in motion? I mean, the Republicans did this with Soros, right? Like, things go bad and they're like, okay, who funded it?

Who's in charge? Who's actually behind the scenes? Yeah. And then I think with this specific election, just the amount of pods that you went on, it was an easy thing for a lot of media to jump on to and say like, oh, these are the needle movers. Was it that? Was it poor policy and campaign decisions from the Democrats?

Like, I think it's, I think it's, it's fine because all them want to come on now. All these same people are like, oh, the manosphere is sexes, the big, or whatever. Like, all of them are sending emails. Like, we'd love to get our candidate on your podcast. Good. Let your good ideas, you know, step on the bad ones. And we'll be here for it. It's great.

Like, I think, I don't know, I genuinely kind of look at podcasting as a return in a way to the way that ideas used to get transferred, which is like long form discussion, interlocution between two people having ideas and getting them out rather than like being printed in books and you lose tonality. It's like a return to kind of like pre-printing press, like how ideas would be shared in a square. Obviously, the amplification is by orders of magnitude greater than it ever was. but still I think like getting someone's actual vibe through a long-form conversation is gonna be way more honest. It's far more effective if people subscribe to it. But like, I don't know, I see the reactions to these things.

Like I, that Douglas Murray-David-Smith thing, it's like everybody that already agreed with Douglas' take was like, he won the debate. Yeah. And everybody that already agree with Dave was like, he destroyed them. It's like, so who are you fighting for? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I agree.

I think the debate format oftentimes just feeds what people already believe. But I think those people are immune to evidence regardless. Yeah. But are there, is there a margin of people that kind of exist in between that are like, oh, no, this person actually raised a good point. You would hope that that margin is like 80%. Yeah.

In a perfect world, you know? Yeah. But you don't really know how much it is. And obviously, like, the comments are going to be the most radical on either side. My hope, I don't know, maybe I have too much faith in just the average person being able to, like, sense bullshit. But my hope is that through actual good faith, open. in discourse, good ideas generally will kind of matriculate.

Maybe I'm naive. How do you get good ideas in front of people that might not be inclined to indulge in a point of view that is against their innate underpinnings? Yeah, I don't think the algorithms are going to do it naturally. So how do you do that? An unbiased platform. But how do they know it's unbiased? It's biased to them by nature because it's not what they believe.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, of course, there's no such thing really as an unbiased platform, but a platform that would have on both ideas. Like a Joe that would have on, you know, Bernie. But even with Joe, they'll call him bias. Yeah, of course. I mean, people are going to call you bias regardless. Because I don't think there truly is anything like unbiased. Right. I think every person has an implicit idea of what things should be and kind of lean one way or another. But if you can have open discourse, like I think Flayrin does it, right? We'll have Cuban on and he'll have his ideas. We'll have a religious person on that has a very radical idea of theology. Yeah. But then we'll have the other side and have like open discourse. And obviously there's gonna be people that are in their sides that are not gonna be swayed in any way. Yeah. They didn't reason themselves into the position, so how can they reason out of it? Yeah.

But you do hope that there's gonna be a subset, they're gonna be like, oh, actually, you know, I think this is a, this is an interesting idea. But again, we're not experts. We're just commentators. We're just commentators. We're just commentators, dude, you know? This has been fun. Thank you, my boy. I don't want to usher you out of here.

Never. I hope you don't feel that. Never, dude. But also, I recognize you're a busy guy. I have three slices of pizza. I'm going to regret every single one of them the second I want that in.

Can I ask a question as a mega fan? Yes. Where would Schultz be without Mark and where would Mark be without Schultz? What would you be doing? How would your careers be different? If I had to answer, that's a good question.

Yes, yes. If I had answered truthfully, I would have been in Orlando probably another like couple years, still been doing stand-up, probably gotten like a regular job doing stand-up at night. And I basically would have probably been tested. I don't know if I would have left as soon as they did. If I didn't have like a thing. You weren't done L.A. after you had success out there with the left actor and everything?

I don't know if I would have gone without like a reason. Like just the idea to go there and do open mics. I don't know if I would have done that. So like one path is I would have like tried to forge it myself, like maybe making content. I was already making a lot of content at the time. So what have I, would I have kept doing that? Would I have tried to like, yeah, like started my own thing in Florida? Or would I have just got like a job and been like, oh, this is pretty good.

I can do stand-up at night. And the prospect of trying to get on the road and doing it myself would have just been like so insurmountable. I don't even know how you would do it. That I'm like, oh, shit, would I have just like become pacified by the convenience of life. No, I don't think so. I think you would have just done a lot more digital content. Maybe.

Yeah, I think you would have made like a lot more, like, you would have found a way to like get comedy out there and then as comedy got popular, like, online, I think you would have just done that probably earlier and then found ways to get success in that. And then turning that into like moving to New York or L.A. or something like that. But I think you would just continue to do it. And I think comedy kind of opened up in a way that like leaned into you. your strength savvy and know-how. 100%.

Yeah, I hope that's the case. Yeah, I think so. I'm glad I didn't have to find out the other way. I'm very grateful for you swooping me up. Where would I be without Mark? Similar spot. No, no, no. It's like, I don't even imagine these things.

Like, I don't know. Like, where would I be without Mark? I don't know. I think it would have been similar because I don't think I'd change much. I kind of like maybe like move things. in certain directions and, you know, specific windows of time.

But like, you were already popping before me. Yeah, but like, I think that like, you know, obviously I learned so much from you and your contributions have been so huge. Like, I don't know if, I'll be honest, I don't think that we're doing that, uh, ranch show without it. And I think that ranch show is like huge for me. Like, in terms of just perception,

like I think it broke out of just the comedy world or just the podcasting world. That's just kind of, Especially when we were doing like the turn your phones, even more so than the Netflix thing. The Netflix is like as a cool stamp, but it was like those weekly videos like just getting in. I think that was absolutely huge. Just like organization, just like understand the business. And also just like funny, like having someone that I think was like similar minded to me in terms of like the business, ambition, but also like the standard of comedy.

You know? And I thought that was, that's like really, I was like huge and massive just for me. me in general. Like I think it a lot of times allowed me, I think it allowed me achieve so much more quicker. So like, would I get to the thing that I wanted in life? I think in my nature, I'll find a way to do that.

Or you would have died. Yeah, those are options. No, but like, but I think that like, in the way that we're able to, I think the more talented people you get, the faster you can move. Yeah. And, um, and, you know, with like that precision.

Yeah. And just like so much more confidence solving problems. Yeah, I think that's, I think problems got solved pretty quick. I mean, even like Alex, problems got solved quickly. Yeah. And then with me, I think problems got solved a little faster. Yeah. And then every additional person, even today that's still in the studios.

100%. Every person that goes in there, I think helps solve problems a little quicker. Yeah. Like, I don't think anything would be like, it's, It's a weird thing for me, like, I don't think things would be as big. Like, I just don't think, but at the same time, I'm like, I can't imagine them being like this without you. I appreciate you saying that.

So it's like... It'll just be different. Yeah, I don't know. Like, I, in my mind, I'm like, I will find a way. That's how I believe things work. Yeah. But I also just can't imagine what that would be because you've just been so instrumental to the growth of all these things.

So it's like, I would hope. that I could find a way to get here, but I can't think of, I can't give you a way of doing it because you've just been so instrumental and just been like so connected to every bit of success that I've had and that we've had since you've been a part of it.

So I just don't even know what that would be. So it's like, I can't even imagine, yeah, I can't imagine where I would be. Like, I know, like, I can imagine, there are certain things I just would not do. Ideas I just would not have. Like, even being able to chew on the fat about certain things, you know?

So, like, I mean, I could have just said some fucking crazy shit and then have nobody to talk me off a ledge and then nothing would have happened. Like, that's very possible. I was a wild boy, you know? So it's like- You would have that thing. You would have someone. Yeah, maybe.

I don't know. But, yeah, so it's like, I would hope that I would do things. Just as I'm sure, like, if we never met, you'd hope you'd find a way to have success in the thing. but um and i think you would 1,000 percent but i can't i really can't imagine doing it without you yeah i appreciate you saying that yeah likewise and i'm glad i don't have to imagine same my boy thank you so much i really appreciate this thanks for having me absolutely i hope you all feel like you have a good understanding on how corporations dodge taxes and we'll see you next week on camp

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