Camp Gagnon - Bob Lazar: Area 51, Element 115, And Alien Gravity Propulsion

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

Today, we dive into the story of Bob Lazar. We’ll talk about his claims of working at a secret facility called S-4, the highly advanced technology he claims to have witnessed, the mysterious Element 115, his life after being fired, and our ultimate question: is he telling the truth? WELCOME TO CAMP! 🏕️Shoutout to our sponsors: Morgan & Morgan, BlueChew👕🧢 GET YOUR CAMP DRIP HERE: http://camp-rd.com🎟️ 🎫 Comedy Tour Tickets Here: https://markgagnonlive.com🎩👽 Daily Dose Of History Here: https://www.dailytodayinhistory.comTimestamps:0:00 Bob Lazar’s First Appearance2:40 Rocket Powered Honda Civic7:01 Lazar’s Education8:35 Interview Process at Los Alamos10:01 Bob Lazar’s Work at S-415:06 Element 11517:26 Two Types of Gravity21:17 Sports Model Craft24:06 Fired From S-427:07 Lazar Goes Public30:44 Hand Bone Scanner31:38 FBI Raid on Lazar33:10 Was Lazar Telling The Truth?#podcast #foryou #mystery #history #crime #alien #knowledge #education #foryoupage #boblazar

In 1989, a man appeared on Las Vegas TV, face hidden, his voice altered, and claimed that he worked on an alien spacecraft. That man is Bob Lazar. He said he was hired to reverse engineer 9 flying discs at a secret site called S4, just south of Area 51. Powered not by jets or rocket boosters, but by gravity, fueled by an exotic material called Element 115. Before the UFO claims, Lizar was already building insane propulsion tech, like a jet engine strapped to a Honda Civic and was publicly linked to Los Alamos National Lab. And then came the denials, missing records, erased education, and whispers of intelligence disinformation. So what is the truth? Is Bob Lizar a whistleblower? Or is he a pawn in a counterintelligence game? Or the man who accidentally pulled the curtain back too far?

Well, today we break down the full story. What holds up, what falls apart, and why Bob Lazar remains the most controversial figure in UFO history. So, sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. What's up, people, and welcome back to camp. Happy New Year, and thank you so much for joining me in my tent, where every single week we explore the most interesting, fascinating, controversial stories from all time forever and always. Yes, we go through everything on this channel, and I appreciate you guys for tuning in and being a part of it. Now, of course, it's not possible with that. You guys tuning in and subscribing and commenting all that good stuff. It's also not possible without my dear friend Christos.

Chrisos, it's been a minute since I've seen you. How was your new year? It was great, Chrisis. We have time, all right, because we're talking about Bob Lazar. All right, if you don't know who Bob Lazar is, he is maybe one of the most controversial, maybe, yeah, probably the most controversial figure in, like, the UFO space, in the UAP community, in the experiencer circles, okay? Bob Wazar is obviously from his Joe Rogan podcast really became like the forefront leading expert on someone who's actively worked on, you know, UAP and like UFO craft and actually has claimed that the U.S. government not only has, you know, access to retrievals, but like actual working craft. And this has since been backed up by, you know, other whistleblowers. So the question ultimately remains this. Is this guy telling the full and honest truth?

is he a misinformation agent that has been tasked by the government to, you know, send people down a rabbit hole with no ending? Is it possible he was fed some true information and some wrong information? He's not lying, but somehow he's, you know, misinformed. Who's to say? Right? It's difficult to really know. But by the end of this, we will have enough information to hopefully draw our own conclusions, all right? But I'm sure there's a lot of people out there listening who his Bhabas are, right? Where does this guy come from and why does he matter so much to the U.S. world. Well, it all really starts in 1989. All right. There's this local, like, TV station in Las Vegas, KLAS TV. And they have this interview that would basically, like, define modern UFO culture. Okay. So you got this guy, George Knapp. He's a reporter. And they have a guest they're trying to get. And then the guest drops out, so they get a new guest, okay? And he's in like a shadow and he's got like, you know, the pseudonym Dennis. And basically on this broadcast, this shadowy guy named. Dennis says that he worked at a secret facility called S4, south of Area 51, and that at S4,

there were nine disc-shaped crafts, like the typical flying saucer-looking crafts that use this anti-gravity propulsion system powered by this element called Element 115. And that man is known today as Bob Lazar. And this is basically how the public first heard of this guy. Now, who is Bob Lazar? Where does he come from? Well, from a young age, Bob Lazar is fascinated with rocketry and propulsion. That's just his dream as a young boy.

In 1982, a local paper near Los Alamos ran a story about this guy named Bob and his jet-powered Honda Civic. And the article even identifies him as a physicist at Los Alamos National Laboratory. Now, for anyone who doesn't know, Los Alamos is a U.S. national lab in New Mexico, and it's best known as the birthplace of the atomic bomb. So it was founded in 1943 as a part of the Manhattan Project, where you had scientists like J. Robert Oppenheimer, who had a top secret effort to develop nuclear weapons during World War II. Now, after World War II ends, Los Alamos continues as a premier government research lab working on nuclear weapons and physics research and energy research and supercomputing and all sorts of classified defense projects. But because of its history, Los Alamos has long been associated with extreme. secrecy, high-level clearances, and just cutting-edge physics work in general, which is why

any claim of someone working there carries a lot of weight in stories involving classified technology. Now, if you don't know the story, Bob literally connected a jet engine to a car just to see if it would work. The newspaper even claims that the car reached over 200 miles an hour. Yeah, dude, he was blasting a Honda Civic down the street at 200 miles an hour, dude. I know there's there's some Mexican watching this like, yo, bro, that shit is fire, dude. I bet you, hey, Zeus is listening right now. Like, yo, bro, that shit is

a Honda Civic lower, bro, 200, bro. That's crazy. This might not be the joke for this episode. But you know what? It's fine, okay? Shout out to the Chicano's out there that wish they had a 200-mile-an-hour Honda Honda Civic.

Come on, bro. Some of them do. Some of them do, bro. I'd be honest, I was on I-4 recently. I saw a riced-out Civic flying past me. I mean, of all the cars to do it, too. It's either that or like a Miata. If he put a booster on a Miata.

AccuraR.SX is also very popular. Oh, that's a good point. Oh, man, Bob Lazar. Really just like the first, like the first like chopped, lowered, you know, like, yeah, just like custom car guy. Got to respect him. But he builds this and he gets covered in the newspaper for it, all right? And so this basically establishes a few things. One, that Lazar is building these unconventional propulsion projects on his own time.

and he's also publicly associated with Los Alamos National Lab before any of this UFO stuff. Now, he later states that this jet car coverage is how Edward Teller, the father of the hydrogen bomb, first noticed him. So Edward Teller is basically reading the article while he's visiting Los Alamos to give a talk and was so intrigued by this eccentric guy building this crazy riced out civic that he was like, yo, we got to talk to him. Okay. And now Teller's name comes up later and he's important in a second, but we'll get to him. What's up, people? We're going to take a break real quick because this episode is sponsored by me. Yes, Camp R&D. That is the merch. That is the threads that we'd be wearing around here at the campsite. And we got all sorts of cool stuff. My buddy Zach just cooked up a sick UFO collection. You can go check it out there at Camp R&D. I really appreciate you guys.

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It keeps the fire burning. Now, one of the most controversial claims about Lazar is, his education. Now, he repeatedly claimed that he studied physics at MIT and studied at Caltech. But investigations have found that there are no transcripts, no records of graduation, no listing in yearbooks, and no classmates who really recognized him or remember him. So skeptics say that he fabricated his academic history, while conspiracy theorists claimed that his records were just removed as a part of an intelligence practice that they call shes. sheep dipping. And this basically means that, you know, his real history was wiped or altered when he

became involved in this sensitive project. That way, you know, they could never go public. Now, there's no verifiable evidence that his academic records were deliberately erased. But of course, if the government's involved trying to discredit someone, sure it's possible. Now, officially, Los Alamos Laboratory has denied that Lazar was ever a staff physicist. However, multiple pieces of evidence point to him having worked in some capacity at or with the lab. So, 1992 Los Alamos phone directory lists Robert Lazard as a worker at the facility. And of course, the Jet Car newspaper thing literally calls him a physicist at Los Alamos. Now, a few years after Bob's story began to die out, Dr. Robert Crangle, an actual physicist who

worked there, claimed that he remembered Bob Lazar and knew him as. as a physicist at Los Alamos. He even recalls attending the same security briefings as Bob. Now, this eyewitness testimony strongly supports that Luzar did have legitimate access to Los Alamos facilities and that people inside the lab believed that he was operating in a technical role, not just like some random, you know, contract guy from the outside. Now, this takes us to the late 1980s, where Lizar reports being contacted about a classified propulsion-related job. He claims that he was interviewed at an EG&G facility at McCarran Airport in Las Vegas.

Now, EG&G is a real contractor known to be associated with test sites and secure programs, and they handled, you know, transport and clearances and logistics for workers flying to Groom Lake, aka Area 51. Now, Lazar claims that he underwent extensive background checks and psychological evaluations and even polygraph like lie detector tests. And during the alleged clearance process, he says that a man named Mike Thigpin came to his home, interviewed his neighbors, and conducted the standard background investigation that comes with this type of high-level security access. And to top it all off, he even claims that he was asked about his beliefs in UFOs and whether he had ever been hypnotized. Now, remember that guy, Edward Teller, that I talked about before, Lozzar wrote him down as a reference on his resume and believes that this is a big reason why he was. even allowed to work in this program. Now, another interesting figure in this recruitment process

is a man named Dennis. Now, Lazara claimed that Dennis was in charge of his case and was the one behind all of the questions. Many researchers believe that Dennis is actually Richard Doty, a.k. Rick Doty, an Air Force counterintelligence officer associated with spreading UFO disinformation. However, his identity has never fully been proven, so that is obviously a big legend. Now, another interesting thing actually about Richard Doty is that he's also involved in the Paul Benowitz case. Now, if you've never heard of Paul Benowitz, look it up. It's really interesting. Maybe worth an episode on its own. But Benowitz was an engineer in Albuquerque in the late 70s, early 80s, who was thought to have intercepted alien signals near Kirtland Air Force Base. And in reality,

he was picking up classified U.S. military tests. But instead of telling him the truth, Air Force intelligence fed him fake UFO documents staged evidence. and ultimately destroyed his life. I mean, the story is crazy, so looking at that, maybe we'll just do an episode on it. But regardless, that's the kind of people that we're dealing with, allegedly. Now, when Bobazar finally got the job at Los Alamos, he was told that he had been assigned to work at a facility south of Groom Lake. He then describes how he actually got to the facility.

He boards a Janet flight at McCarran Airport, which is an aircraft specifically used to carry workers to and from Las Vegas in area 51. He claimed it took around like 25 minutes to get to Grum Lake, and upon landing, most passengers just went straight to like the main base. Lizar, however, was pulled away and directed into a bus with blacked out windows. And after a short drive, the bus arrives at the base of Papus Mountain near Pappus Lake, about 15 miles south of Grim Lake. And here he identifies the facility as S4, literally meaning site four. Now, Lizar's description of S4 includes a few things. A series of hangar doors built into the side of the mountain. Doors painted like camouflage to match the rock, interior consisting of narrow corridors

and small rooms, armed guards always escorting you everywhere, and instructions to look straight ahead at all times. When entering the facility, Lizar claimed that he was escorted inside and placed into like this small room before being given briefing documents and left a to read them. Now, in those briefings, according to the Lazar, he reads things that just blow his mind. Craft that didn't originate from any known human program. At least one craft at the facility was allegedly recovered during an archaeological dig. So meaning this is hundreds, if not thousands of years old. Again, this is what he's reading. References to biological entities associated with the vehicles and an explicit mention of the Zeta-Ritikulai Star System as the supposed origin

of at least one of the craft. So imagine this. This guy's a scientist, he's a smart dude, maybe a little tizzed out, sits down in a room and is reading the most insane briefing you could ever imagine. He also notes a list of project code names. So project sidekick, looking glass,

and Project Galileo. Now, in order, these are basically what they are. Sidekick seems to be related to weapons or, like, defense applications. Looking glass is related to space time and gravity manipulation. and then Galileo is focused on gravity-based propulsion. Now, this is what Lazar is assigned.

Now, on one of his early visits to S-4, Lazar is basically escorted down a hallway past several open hangar bays, and he reported seeing a disc-shaped craft that's approximately like 52 feet in diameter, like 16 feet tall. It had a smooth metallic surface, no rivets or bolts or anything like that, and it had a small American flag decal stuck to the outside of the craft. Now, over time, he claims to have seen nine different craft in total, with different shapes and configurations.

And his conclusion was simple. They likely didn't all originate from the same place. Lizar says that his work at S4 was pretty straightforward. His supervisor, this guy, Dennis, possibly the same person earlier, you know, possibly Rick Doty, no one knows. His partner on the project was a technician named Barry, who had been on the project. before Lazar was even hired, and his assignment was to work exclusively on the sport models propulsion

system. Now, I'll explain what that is in a second, and he was also restricted from interacting with other teams at all, even if he saw them just hanging out in the hangers. Now, his partner, Barry claimed a previous scientist assigned to the same sport model craft was killed while he was attempting to cut into the power source or the reactor. Now, he also claims that a group of Russian scientists had previously been allowed to work at or near S4, but they were later kicked out after an unspecified breakthrough or a serious incident, and it was never really clarified what that was. And of course, we don't really have evidence for this apart from Bob's own words. Now we get into one of the most crucial parts of this entire story. So Bob Azar, he starts

describing the heart of the propulsion system as a reactor that they had removed from the craft to study. Now, he describes it as such. Basically, a smooth half dome mounted on this flat square base. There's no wires or switches or controls or literally anything. And it's activated by placing the dome into a specific position on the base. And when it was activated, it created a field that would physically prevent his hand from touching it, like literally like a sci-fi force field. Now, Lazar claimed that this reactor ran on an exotic element with the atomic number 115, which he calls element 115. He even explains how this process works, saying that element 115 is bombarded with protons, briefly turning it into element 116, which then releases a strong gravitational

a wave used for propulsion. Now, the wildest thing about this entire claim is that element 115 has not been synthesized on Earth yet. Well, that was until it doesn't. when scientists at a nuclear institute in Russia synthesized Element 115, which is now called Moscovium, and it was done inside a lab in Moscow. However, it is extremely unstable and decayed within milliseconds, but Lizar claims that the material they had at S4 was a stable isotope, one that is not naturally occurring on Earth. Now, it just makes you wonder about that Ruzar was talking about that had this breakthrough, and then all of a sudden, you know, 15 years later, you have the Russians developing this unstable element 115.

Interesting to say the least. Now, another little fun fact, an atomic number is just the number of protons that's in an atom. So the existence of element 115 was always inevitable, right? It was always clear that that does exist or, you know, it's out there. But, you know, it was just simply the next empty slot on the periodic table. So that means Lazar identifying 115. five isn't a prediction or like a secret knowledge. It's just basic chemistry that this thing is inevitably out there. They just haven't really, you know, synthesized it on Earth. Now,

another claim of Lazars is that there are two types of gravity. Gravity B is the gravity we're all used to, you know, governs the planet and the sun, stars, and all that stuff. Now, gravity A is smaller and more controllable. And the entire field is associated at the subatomic level. and the key components of the sport model craft basically subsist on this gravity A. Now, this is where we meet this thing known as Omnichron mode. This is a specific setting in the Sport Model UFO that allows the craft to tilt so that its underside faces the target direction. And in this mode, the reactor emits gravity A waves, which can be amplified and directed by three gravity amplifiers inside the craft. Now, these amplifiers can be aimed to create a literal warp in space time.

The craft doesn't simply fly in the traditional sense. It falls into a hole where the gravity is warping around it and propelling it forward. Yeah, I know. This sounds crazy, but this is what Bob Lazar said, and this is how he explained these craft to work, basically. And a lot of people at the time kind of just wrote it off. But in 2015, scientists did prove that gravity does work in this sort. wave theory and it was proven decades after Bob Lazar first described this gravity wave-based

propulsion system in the first place. What's up guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I got to tell you a story. Imagine you're sitting in your house. It's cold outside. It's a little snowy and you're like, man, I just want a pinini. So you go and you order it, you know, from a, from door to ash or something like that. And it never gets to you. You're looking at the app. You're like, dude, it's been four hours. Where's my pinini? You're calling. No one answers. Well, this is a true story that happened. There was a woman, a client that was working as a DoorDash driver, and she slipped and fell on an icy walkway outside of a Panera bread at Fort Wayne, Indiana.

She breaks her elbow, which leads to surgery and hardware having to get inserted into her arms. She can't work. And originally, you know, she soothed Panera, and Panera was like, okay, we'll give you like 125, $125,000. But then the good people over at Morgan and Morgan fought for her and got her the million-dollar verdict that she deserved. Yes. If you never heard of them, Morgan Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. Yes, and they're that way for a reason. They've been fighting for the people for over 35 years. Now, I'll be honest, if I ordered a pinini and the woman gets paid a million bucks because she slipped, I mean, it's a tragic thing to happen, of course, but I deserve a little bit of that. I should get a cut at least, right? I'm the woman to order the pinini. If I never ordered that pinini, she never would have slipped, never got a million bucks, which obviously she deserved, you know what I mean? But maybe next time she gets a million and million point one, I can get a cool 100,000 out of that. Regardless, all I'm saying is if you're ever injured and you are looking to get the money that you deserved, the compensation that is

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And thank you so much to the good folks over at Morgan and Morgan for sponsoring this program and making this show possible with this paid advertisement. Well, let's get back to the show. So now we have an idea of who Bob is and how the craft works from the outside based off of his explanation and how he even got involved in this super specific sport model craft inside the super specific program inside the super specific facility. But what does it look like on the inside? Well, Bob Lazar's description is pretty boring to be honest with you. Like it's basically just says it's like one single color throughout the entire ship. It's like a dark gray thing.

There's no angles, really. Like, it's all just like smooth curves. And there's no visible switches or displays and there's no wiring or compartments, like a glove box or anything at all. But what it did have was three small seats arranged around this central column that was obviously too small for humans.

And he also described three different levels. So there was an upper level that was not accessed by him, but it had dark panels and they would open up revealing the sky suggesting maybe like a navigation area or like an observation thing. Again, he didn't know because he didn't access it. Then there's the middle level, which is where the three chairs are and the reactor were actually placed. And then there's the lower level. And now this is where the three gravity amplifiers are connected to mechanical arms. He also notes another team was working inside the craft at one point, focusing on a transparent panel that was embedded in the

archway. But he was, again, not allowed to have any direct contact or communication with this team. Now, Lizar claims that at least once he was escorted outside S4 to watch a controlled test flight of this sport model aircraft. And he says that the craft just lifted silently off the ground. It hovered side to side in the smooth, stable way that didn't look like a jet or a helicopter or anything like that. And it stayed in what he says was this kind of like low performance mode, no crazy like

right angle turns or instant. you know gravitational accelerations nothing like that but according to him he was told that the more aggressive maneuvers were done at night when the chance of satellite surveillance was far lower but one detail really bothered him he says that radio communication was being used to talk to whoever or whatever was in the craft during the test now to him this didn't make any sense at all especially with what he understood about the like alleged space time distortion and gravity machine that was caused by this reactor, which he thought would completely interfere with any type of normal radio transmission. So this posed an issue for him that he still hasn't fully reconciled on a personal level. But in a certain capacity, these discrepancies or these things that don't really add up almost give his story more credibility.

Because why would he lie about something that doesn't make sense? Now, let's fast forward to the early part of 1989. Bob Lazar has officially been working at S4 for about a year. And around this time, Lizarr notices that his life is basically under constant surveillance. And according to him, his phone calls are being monitored, his home life and his marriage were being evaluated internally. And he was watched not just for potential leaks, but for any sign that he might become a problem. Now, during these internal investigations, the security team,

assigned to monitor Lazard discovered that his wife was having an affair. Yeah. They then flagged this as a security risk simply because this emotional stress of, you know, finding out that your wife is, you know, out here, dishing it to the whole neighborhood, that's going to cause someone to just maybe go crazy or snap. And if you're dealing with the most sensitive high-profile government documents, you can't let this happen. So now, according to Blah, Zahar, his security clearance was frozen. His flights to S4 became less frequent before just ultimately stopping altogether, and his supervisors went quiet, essentially not even telling him what was going on. Now, this is what Bob claims made him feel like he was being pushed out of the program,

not fired formally, but just kind of cut out. Now, Lazar says that during this limbo period, when his access was limited and he was kind of getting pushed out, but he wasn't fired, he decided to prove what he knew by bringing friends to watch the test flights. Now, this sounds pretty crazy, but he took a small group of friends, including Gene Huff and John Lear, to this outside ridge with a view over the test area, actually near Papus Lake. And from there, they watched as lights in the sky made the same erratic moves that Lazar had previously mentioned.

At least one of these trips was recorded on a 1980s camcorder, and that greaty footage has been floating around UFO circles for decades. Now, after multiple trips, Lizar says that security finally caught on. And a vehicle approached them in the desert and treated them as if they were infringing on classified information because, I mean, two of them were. Now, after that desert encounter, Lazar says that he was summoned to Indian Springs Air Force Base, which is now Creech Air Force Base. His description of the meeting is extremely specific. He was brought into a small windowless room. he was confronted by men not in, you know, standard uniforms, likely security or intelligence personnel.

And they had a file on him, like a real, a thick one. And it was, you know, everything from, you know, what he had done in his work and, you know, conversations that he thought were private and his personal surveillance. I mean, they quoted back to him jokes and comments made during the trip with his friends and phone conversations from his home. They then told Lazar that he would never return to S-4 and that he was forcefully reminded of the nondisclosure agreements and the consequences of speaking out. Now, from this moment on, he says that he felt cut off, threatened and, you know, as if he was still monitored despite not even working there anymore. That pressure is what he claims pushed him to actually go public. Now, through his friend John Lear, Lazar lands a spot on KLAS TV in Los Angeles and agrees to go public. with the story as long as his identity is hidden.

The Lazar then goes on the show under the pseudonym of Dennis, the same name as his supposed supervisor. And in that first interview, he talks about S4 and where it is and these nine craft that he had allegedly seen in this gravity-based propulsion and even Element 115. Now, the interview caught the attention of George Knapp, this investigative reporter who worked at the KLAS TV station. Now, when Lazar meets with Knapp,

he begins telling him about his experience at S4, and Knapp quickly realizes this is a major story and decides to dig even deeper and airs a second Dennis episode. Behind the scenes, Knapp also started verifying what he could. He confirmed that Los Alamos phone directory had Bob Lazar in the list. And he also confirmed this jet car newspaper article,

and he even confirms that Mike Thigpen, a man Lazar names as his background investigator, is a real person who did conduct clearance checks for Nevada test sites. Now, after the hidden interviews, Knapp and Lazzar decided to fully go public on November 10th, 1989, and Bob appeared on TV under his real name and his real face for the first time. Now, Bob Lazzar also claims that after his first anonymous broadcast, he got a call from the real Dennis saying, do you have any idea what we're going to do to you now? Clearly, nothing ever came of that threat, or, you know, so far as we know. But people around Lazar later reported

increased check-ins from officials, attention from authorities, and a ton of security issues, which they believe were connected to his decision to go public. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because you know what time it is. It's time to level up and Bluchew just dropped something wild. Okay? Bluechew's been rocking with us from the beginning. So, of course, we have to rock, pun intended, with them, all right? And what they've just done is changing the game. All right, this is next level gold metal energy. This is blue chew gold. If you never heard of it, this is the newest innovation from the number one chewable ED brand. This isn't the little blue pill that your grandpa used. This is the four and one beast that is setting the gold standard for performance.

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scanner. He described this as a security device at S4 that literally scanned the bones in your hand, measuring finger length and joint spacing to basically verify your identity. And at time, people kind of laughed that this was like a sci-fi men-and-black thing, right? But years later, photos and account surface of similar devices used at Groom Lake in the 1980s, often called the Identimat scanner. And you can even see a picture of it here on the screen. Now, the design and the function closely matched what Lazar described long before those images were ever public and before that technology was even thought to exist. Now, these details don't confirm the UFO story, of course, but they do weaken the idea that Lazar was never anywhere near these sensitive projects.

Now, this takes us to Jeremy Corbell's 2018 documentary, Bob Lazar, Area 51, and Flying Saucers. Now, in it, there's a moment where Corbell straight up asked Bob if he ever took Element 115 out of S4. And Lazar's reaction is pretty weird if you watch the video. You should check it out. He smiles and then pauses and then never gives a yes or no. And Corbell doesn't push any further. And soon after the documentary releases, federal agents raid Lazars Company United Nuclear with the official reason being that they were investigating a case involving thalium, a highly toxic substance that was tied to a homicide. Now, someone in the country, had been killed using thallium, and agents said that they were just checking Lizar's inventory to make sure none of his thallium was missing or connected to this specific crime. Now, according to Lazar during the raid, agents even brought up his S4 past, connecting the operation back, at least conversationally, to his claims about UFOs. Now, after that point, Lazar's direct story essentially ends.

He doesn't publish any new claims. He doesn't expand on his S4 narrative. He doesn't produce any new evidence. Over the years, he gives a small handful of interviews, right? He talks to NAP in the 90s, some small appearances in the 2000s, and, you know, the 2018 Corbell documentary, but the core story never changed. And that's what makes his story so compelling. And that, my friends, is the story of Bob Lazar.

I mean, a fascinating guy, right? Like, truly, I think, the most entertaining figure in UFOology. I mean, the fact that he would go public and, like, so many of the things that he said were at least linked to being true. Here's my take, okay? Again, I have no idea. I don't think that he's lying. I don't think Bob Lazar is like, I'm going to construct an entire story, da-da-da. I don't think that he's paid by the federal government to, you know, create this whole crazy, you know, sort of series that kind of adds up, but isn't fully true in order to be disinformation.

I think the Benowitz thing is the most compelling feeling for me, that the government, for some reason, is setting this guy up with information so that he goes around this whole media circus telling this story that he is not lying about but isn't fully true. And that basically information is compartmentalized in such a way that even if you're working intimately on something, you only know part of the truth and even the truth that you know is mixed in with some lies. so if you ever go public with it, it's completely tarnished. You know what I mean? Like, if you're working on some type of project and it's like red, green blue and you're working on, you know,

the red and the green part, I'm going to throw in like orange in there. That way if you tell people red, green, orange, it doesn't really make sense. I don't know if that metaphor actually even means anything to the audience, but it made sense in my head. What do you, right?

I can say that. Yeah, you can see that, right? It just feels like he's given part of the info. he's touching some of it and he's being used as a disinformation tool. Am I crazy? I don't know. That's my feeling. But again, the guy, he just doesn't

seem like he's lying, but also his claims are like so wild and the fact that he's still alive is also suspect, right? Like if he actually had all this crazy access and the government didn't want him to talk, he probably wouldn't talk. And if he mysteriously passed away,

which thank goodness he didn't, in 1990, or even before that, when he's doing the anonymous interviews, if you just happen to pass away, this would have just been swept under the rug and everyone would have moved on and this never would have been a thing. But for whatever reason, the powers it be through these intelligence circles, benefit from him sharing this information. Because that's the only reason they would let it happen. Like, they're not like, oh, we can't do anything about it.

People have been killed for way less, right? I also feel like there's been at least some retaliation or like possible retaliation. The whole, his wife cheating on him thing. It's kind of wild that that came out. Leave it to a woman to ruin a young scientist's name. You know what I mean? He was out here doing his thing. All of a sudden, lost his clearance.

This girl was just going crazy. Just toss him to the neighbors. RIP, right? I don't know. It just, it feels to me like this guy is, if he's alive and still doing interviews, there's a reason. And I don't think that he's lying. So that leads me to the only possible solution,

which is either A, he was given information that was meant to mislead the public. Or, B, he had false memories and, planted inside his craning. What else could it be? I just think he was a lot less involved than he claims. So you're saying that he's embellishing? Yes. It's possible.

Again, no one knows. I never met the guy. Is he embellishing? Possibly? But, like, I mean, him not going to MIT and Caltech after he said that he did is an issue. Yeah. That's a problem. That's the worst.

That's also a crazy thing to embellish. Like, you don't have to lie about that. plus we could look it up that right that's what I'm saying like it's such an easy thing to look up like yeah I don't know to me it's like lying about your address it's like well we could just find that out so easily like right it's just it's one of those things that's like I don't see why he would do that he's not a dumb guy so lying about something that's so verifiable seems like a massive mistake I don't know I don't see why he would do that so the idea that these things were like removed or he was either instructed to do

that like, hey, if you ever give interviews, say that you did this because we can't hire someone that didn't go to college despite you being a genius guy. It's also possible he didn't go to college. They saw him as like a useful, you know, a useful mouthpiece and they pump him with information and send him out in the world. And he, they tell him to lie about his information. That way, he's completely discredited the second he opens his mouth. He's able to sow doubt, able to, you know, sow seeds of misinformation. I don't know. All that to say, mad respect. to the guy. You know what I mean? Like assuming that he's being used as a tool, he still is brave enough to go out there and put his head, you know, his neck on the line and just, I don't know,

try to spread the information that he thinks is true. Can't really default a man for that. But all that is say, I'm just like not fully, there's just issues that I have. The college thing is a problem. And the fact that he's still alive is, is bothersome to me. Also the weird, smirky answer he gave when he was asked if he took any of that element 115 stuff. Yeah. Yeah. What's he doing with it? Mm-hmm.

That shit probably is fire. Yeah. You popped that in like a one-hitter, dude. Ooh, you got that one-fifteen high. That should probably go crazy. Russians couldn't even make it stable. Bro, I'm trying to tell you, that shit would make you so unstable, dude. That shit would make you just go crazy.

Anyway, we should be making these jokes. Children listen to the show. Apparently. I told you that, right? Yeah, a bunch of comments over the... I was looking at our episode on Julian Dori's... Pod, which you guys should check up, by the way. Love that guy.

But so many comments were like, dude, I love this guy. I listen to, I listen to history camp with my kid. He was like, what? Ew, what? Don't do that. One guy was like,

I was listening in the car with the kids. Oh. You guys were talking about the Easter Bunny and Santa, which are real. Yes. For the record. I like that that's the part that you think is the most disturbing to children,

not me talking about Bob Lazar's ex-wife, you know, doing tricks on it sideways. Actually, we cut that part out. Oh, we did. No, keep it in, dude. Put it back in. Love that. Anyway, thank you guys so much for tuning in. I'm curious, what do you guys think? If you know more about this Bob Lazar guy than I did, please let me know. I'm truly perplexed. I don't know what the answer is and it's bothering me. So if you know, Bob, if you're

watching, all love and respect to you, let me know. Is there anything I missed, anything I got wrong? Please don't hesitate to correct the record here. I'm always open to new information and being told that I'm wrong. Anyway, this has been another episode. of camp. I appreciate you guys so much. This is our tent talks. If you enjoyed this, great news in a couple days, we're going to have religion camp dropping where you explore all the religious concepts in the entire world and the whole universe trying to figure what everyone believes. We also got history camp dropping right after that. We're dropping four episodes a week, people, all right? You got camp basically every single which way. So don't miss out,

subscribe to those channels. And of course, this is tent talks. Thank you so much for watching, subscribing, liking, doing all that stuff because of course you help keep the fire burning. We'll see you next time. Peace. What's up, people? We're going to take a break really quick because I have amazing news. I'm coming on the road. That's right, my very first headlining tour where I'm going to every city that will possibly allow me to go there. I'm going to Salt Lake City. I'm going to Washington, D.C. and Charlotte, North Carolina in February. Those tickets will be announced soon. You can get all the tickets at Mark Yagnon live, and I'll see you guys there.