Camp Gagnon - Casey Neistat Reveals Comment That Made Him Quit YouTube | Camp Gagnon

Episode Date: March 26, 2024

This is Casey Neistat, one of the greatest filmmakers YouTube has ever known. He revolutionized vlogging and did it for over 800 days straight. By 30 minutes in this episode we’ll learn which comment made Casey quit youtube.By an hour his wildest party stories in NYC, like sneaking into a party dressed as a spartan.By the end we will learn about his relationship with the Safdie brothers & The future of his studio 368. WELCOME TO CAMP!Join our Discord community:https://discord.gg/QqH...

I never watched my videos. The minute I click upload, I have to start thinking about the next day. My rule with comments, it don't affect me unless there's some semblance of truth in them. I just remember towards the end of the vlog, like I made this episode, and it was like my buddy and I literally, we had nothing to do it. We went and shot some, like, four mid into an episode. And one of the comments was like, I stopped like a week later. We need to find that guy. We need to go beat him up.

No, I want to find him and thank him. We have plenty of people in the comment section that we should beat the shit out. But not that guy. I can't get back to being the person that was able to do that every day. And I've tried. If there was a famous filmmaker to go on YouTube, who do you think would be a good YouTuber? This is such a fun question. This is Casey Nystad.

One of the greatest filmmakers YouTube has ever known. He revolutionized vlogging and did it for over 800 days straight. And by 30 minutes into this episode, we will learn which YouTube comment made Casey quit daily vlogging. By an hour into this episode, we will hear some of Casey's craziest New York City party stories, like the time he broke into a very exclusive party dressed as a Spartan warrior. And by the end of this episode, we will learn about his relationship with the Safty brothers, who made good time, uncut gems, a bunch of other amazing movies. And he's going to tell us about the future of his studio, 368.

This conversation with Casey is absolutely amazing. He's the man, and I'm so grateful to have him here today. So without further ado, enjoy my conversation with Casey Neistad. Welcome to Camp. Casey Nystad. Great acoustics in here. Thank you, brother. I really appreciate it.

It's so clean. Thank you. It's so quiet. There's a peaceful silence. There's something that, like, New Yorkers were deeply uncomfortable with silence. Yeah. And I feel that discomfort. Okay. Like, when I go to sleep and I'm not in the city, I have to play a soundtrack of sirens and car horns.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's my safe place. Literally this happened to me the other day. I woke up, like, seven in the morning, and I turned my wife, and I hear the wind outside. It's like whipping. And I was like, babe, do you hear the wind? It's so beautiful. And she goes, that's an ambulance.

I had no idea. I was completely a blue, so I was like, yeah, you're right, my bad. I think New York is just fix your brain into being like, ah, see nature. It's like a woman getting robbed. You're like, nah, whatever. Right. That is our environment. That is what we're comfortable.

Exactly. Yeah, it gives you a piece, right? How many podcasts have you recorded in this tent so far? In this tent, probably 60 to 70. Really? Yeah, yeah. Fantastic. Thank you, brother.

I really appreciate you coming on. This is like so cool. You are an inspiration. and having you in here is really, really awesome, dude. Well, thanks for saying that. I mean, I'm excited to be here. Yeah. I think, like, there's something about environment and spaces, physical spaces,

that does something to you that's so, like, important. And I say it because my physical space, like my office space, my studio, I've been in there for 22 years. And, like, now is, like, a middle-aged, married guy with a thousand children. and like, I have a nice apartment, but it's not mine. I just get to pay for it and sleep in it. Yeah. Like, I don't have any say.

Like, I'll fight with my wife over, like, where my cell phone charger is. You know, but, like, my physical space that is my office is 100% just my space. Mm-hmm. And this feels like one of those. Like, this is, it puts you into a different frame of mind when you're in a physical space like this. Yeah, this is what I wanted my childhood bedroom would look like. You know what I mean? But I could, didn't have that autonomy.

Were you born in 1942? Like, what? I just liked knickknacks. I would like go out in the woods and I'd like find like a piece of rock and I'd be like this is probably a native arrow. And it was actually a heroin needle. I didn't know the difference.

Where did you grow up? Down in Florida. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We're in Florida. Outside of Orlando. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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That's the thing I actually went to Disney world a lot growing up in Walt Disney is infamous for creating environment. He was like, the whole thing has to be immersive. It has to be three-dimensional. You know, I saw this thing that Walt Disney, like he was a chain smoker, like a crazy chain smoker.

And every photo of him, he has a cigarette in his hand. But every photo of them, they have photoshopped out those cigarettes. And sometimes I put a pen in his hand or something or they just make it go away. But that's such a like a Disneyification of a human being. Have you ever heard the Frozen Conspiracy? No, give me the Frozen Conspiracy. So apparently, apparently.

I want you to know. I am the father of two young daughters. I have seen Frozen One and Frozen 2, no less than a thousand times. So this will be applicable to tell your children this, okay? Apparently, by apparently I mean this is definitely not true. But apparently, the reason that they came out with Frozen, and they called it Frozen, is because if you Googled Disney Frozen, the first thing that would come up is that Walt Disney's head is cryogenically frozen and put into a freezer somewhere in like Burbank or some shit. But now, if you Google Disney Frozen, it brings you to the hit motion picture. You know, I was, as a child of the 80s, I knew that conspiracy theory.

Yeah, wild, right? Is one of those stories that, like, if you're a little kid that it makes total sense. Yeah. It's like, oh, when you die, if you want to be brought back to life later, you have to be frozen because they haven't figured out how to do it yet. Exactly. It makes a lot of sense. Until like an eight-year-old, I was like that. I've seen Jurassic Park.

Yeah, yeah, that totally adds up. Yeah. That totally adds up. Don't you miss some of those young childhood like rumors that you hear? Like Richard Geer? You're like, wait, what? He put a gerbil in some? Yeah.

I mean, Marilyn Manson. Getting his ribs removed. That terrified me when I was in camp when I heard it. That terrified me when I heard it. Made sense. I literally I heard that and I was like, holy shit, dude. Committed. Am I missing a rib?

Focus. Yeah. There's some really gross new kids on the block rumors. Yeah. None of those fact checkable. Yeah, right? So you just go with them. Something beautiful about that.

Yeah, I love conspiracy theories. It's like favorite thing. In a way, a lot of your vlogs or a lot of the movies are kind of like that where it's like, this is what you thought about the world, but this is what it actually is. You know what I mean? Like there's a little bit of like assumption breaking. Like going against whatever like... I don't know what you mean.

Really? Yeah, I want to push you. Like, I feel like New York City misconceptions. Okay. People think New York City is this. But actually, if you dig deeper, there are these stories that sit behind it. I don't know. I think that's true.

That's fair. And that's beautiful. Like, New York City in particular. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And by the way, I'm just giving you for a warning. If you get me started on New York, I'll spend the next two hours talking about this city. Two days, if you'll give it to me. But, like, I think that New York does get, like, a bad...

rub because it's like all the crime and all the bullshit that you see, especially on like Fox News, it's all true. Like, it's completely true. We have buses of undocumented immigrants being dropped off in midtown around the clock. Yeah. Like we have crime everywhere. Like the subway, I mean, it's not 50-50 that a crime's going to go down. But, you know, your chances of seeing something interesting are very high.

Yeah. Like this city is a gnarly place. That can be true. But what's also true is that this city is filled up with like the most amazing, lovely humans ever. Yeah. You know, like my buddies and I were running two, three days ago. We did like a long, like 12-mile run.

It's like three white dudes running through downtown at like 6.30 in the morning trying to get back because I'm running late. And there's this guy who stands outside of 7-Eleven and he's like the self-appointed security guy. You know, but he opens the door for people because he wants you to give him money. Yeah.

And he's a homeless guy. He has no front teeth. And he looks like exactly what you'd imagine him looking like. can have one shoe on. And we like are running by and he just looks at us and he's like, all right, gentlemen, get that money. Get that money. I don't know what that means.

But like his unbridled enthusiasm was as genuine as it comes. Cheering you on. He wanted nothing from us but to celebrate the day. Yeah. And it's beautiful. You encounter that a hundred times a day in New York. Dude, there's a guy on Christie Street. Christie and like Delancey and he just sits there.

He doesn't have any legs. And he directs traffic at the red light. So there's already a green light and he's going Hey you gotta come on let's go let's go And I've seen it on multiple occasions where the light will turn red And he keeps on guiding people through And then a car will go and stop in the middle of traffic And honk at him and be like what the fuck

And the guy's like dude like dude that's a little out there A little crazy but just guiding traffic all day for no reason Isn't that beautiful? Everybody's got that thing Picked up his job Yeah you gotta find your thing in this world Yeah I'm curious about something Okay

What's bothering you lately What's bothering me lately? I mean, there's like the, the short answer is like, I have nothing to complain about ever. And I'm like, you know, I'm a big fan of like the Stoics and like the Ryan Holiday Stoicism thing. And like I love like the Jaka-Wilank extreme ownership. And like rooted in all of that is just not complaining because complaining is a fucking waste of time. It's like change things. And if you can't change things, they're out of your control.

So why bitch about them anyway? Yeah. And I happen to live like a wonderfully privileged life. Like I've completely won the lot of one life. So I have nothing to complain about. But I have in my old age been like getting like weird, weirdly existential about just kind of like the state of affairs in the universe. Like we get to sit here at whatever it is 10 o'clock on a Thursday and just like chill out. Stay Thursday?

Yeah. Thursday. Yeah. And just like. Life is good. Life is great. But there's all this like fucked up shit happening all over the world. Like on Instagram, like half my recommended feed is all crazy war footage.

Yeah. And I saw a clip last night and it was a Russian soldier on a four by four going through like a war zone. And then like an FPV drone from the Ukrainians just like smashing into him blowing him up. And there was like some crazy Ukrainian death metal music over it that was very like glorified. And you watch that, you're like, okay, good, got the bad guy. And you watch that and you're like, hell yeah, bro. And then it's like, there's no fucking way that Russian guy wanted to be fighting for whatever he's fighting for. There's no way the Ukrainian guy flying that drone.

It's crazy. And then like, you know, and then that's all over the world. Like, you look at all this like really scary shit and deprivation that's happening on the planet. Like, you look at what's happening in the Middle East. It's like really, really gnarly stuff. And like, you feel terrible for like the Israeli babies that are kidnapped. and the people that were murdered in their homes. You feel terrible for like the Palestinians

who are like just trying to live in their whole fucking universe is being leveled by bombs. And like I think what's different about now because the best of my understanding, the world has always been a warring world all the way back to, you know, recorded history.

I've always been killing each other. But like we have these like stupid devices in our phone, in our pockets that are called phones that like deliver that information to us. Like I want to go on, Twitter and just read about like shit coining and meme coins and how like the pepe coin has made somebody a millionaire. Like I just want to read about cryptocurrency and like sports. And like I'm constantly confronted by like the horrors of the world. It is a wild way to consume world

politics that like you're just scrolling and it's like, okay, war footage, war footage, only fans girl. Yes. Funny dog. You're like this is an insane thing to be looking at every, like that this is the way it's delivered. And if you think, like, us as humans have never consumed information like that. Yeah, it's insane. Imagine Fox News back in the day. It was like, anyway, here's the war in Gaza. And also, here's a slutty girl on the internet.

You're like, why is this on TV? When you said that you're going back like 30 years? Yeah. Okay, but like, when was radio invented? 1850s? I don't know. Let's call it. That was like less than 200 years ago.

Okay, so for like hundreds of thousands of years, communication was just delivered in these little snippets. Like, you know, when I was a kid, I delivered the newspaper. Like, my first job was, I was a paper boy. I had, like, 28 papers on my route. I'd, like, drive around, throw people. Like, I'm not that old. But when I was a kid, the way people got their information was I would take a physical paper rolled up

and I would, like, throw it at their front door. It was such like an organized way of consuming the news. So slow. You close the newspaper. You put the coffee down, then you go to work. And now it's just like this all the time. So, you know, I do think that we're living in wonderful times because it's like, you know, there's more peace in the world, there's less hunger and the world, like all these really amazing virtuous things. But the bad stuff is so accessible.

Yeah. Yeah. It can, I think it can kind of warp your brain. I also do think there's like a generational kind of thing that happens. Like, I think if you ask like a 20-something-year-old kid, like, what's bothering you? They'd be like, oh, the Uber app is so annoying. You know what I mean? Like, it's very micro.

And I think you asked someone at a certain inflection point in their life. And all of a sudden, the problems become very macro. And the things that bother them are very much like, you ask, you know, like an older, like, conservative person's like, the border. And you're like, what? Like, that's the thing that's bothering it. It's like, it's all very big. And I'm curious, like, if that happened for you and when, like, was it, like, yes. When did you stop being annoyed about bike lanes and start being annoyed about the state of the universe?

I don't know. but like I like somebody wrote a poem maybe it was a tweet maybe he was a book I don't know it was like the older I get the more I do this the more this makes sense and one of them was like the older I get

the more the Republicans make sense and like I'm not there but like all the shit that like my dad and his crazy old man friends would complain about when I was a kid now I'm older and I'm like well I do understand where they're coming from so like it's definitely transitionary

and I think that I don't know, maybe being a parent is a big part of that when like you start to look at the world not only through your own selfish eyes, but like what's it going to be like for my kids in 20 or 30 years? Like how's this going to make sense? And how do we have, you know, two octogenarians? Those are our presidential choices.

Yeah. Like of all the people in this country, like 370 million people in this country, those are the two best we could come up with. That's what we got. Yeah. That's it. Those are the only two people.

Yeah. That's what we get to shit. And those are the ones of the nuclear codes. So I don't lose sleep over that. I don't. I think it's perhaps so preposterous that I just kind of laugh at it. Because like, what do you do? But that's what you originally ask like what's bothering me?

All that shit, yes, it does bother me. But I think why it, the aspect of it that bothers me is like what's my role in it? Not meaning like did I, it means like what? What do I do? That's what I was going to ask. Is it okay for you to be happy? Is it okay for us to have fun joking in here when there's like a war happening in the Ukraine?

Is it okay for us to be laughing in here when like the Uyghurs? Something like that, yeah. Like the white guys that rap? No, dude. No, the Muslim people in China that are being interned. Who the fuck did you think I was up? I thought you said the other, I misinterpreted what you said. Clearly.

My apologies, dude. No, the point I was making is like, with all like this suffering. suffering in the planet. Like, is it okay for us to just have fun in this tent? Yeah. And I think the answer is yes, of course it is. But the more you know, the less blissful things can be. And then there's also, I think, a frustration when things get out of your

control. Like when things, when the problems are small, there's an, you can kind of exert your will on the universe. But then you realize that when, as the problems get bigger, there's less that you can do. And that feeling, I think, is really frustrating and at its worst, inescapable. I think that's like really

beautifully said. Yeah. And where I go with it, and this can be a cop-out. Like, this is a conversation to have other therapist. Who can tell me that's a cop-out? And I would agree. But like... There's a cop-out.

Appreciate it. Like, what can you do? And I think the best you can do is just to be like the best, like the best, like, not to be all fucking trite, but like, be the best person you can be. Like, raise your children to the best of your ability. So you're bringing positive people into this. world that can affect positive change and just focus on what you can control. Control is like the wrong word, but like where you can affect change. Like I don't know what I can do to help the suffering

people that are in war-torn parts of this world. I don't know. Like I can send a money show. I'm happy to do that. Don't eat money. Like really, what can I do? You're not going to change the government of Haiti. It's like. Yeah. Like there's warlords there and like they're like killing people and they're letting people out of prison that are violent murderers. It's happened like two days ago. Yeah. I don't know how I can help those people. I don't even speak French. Creole, what language do they speak? But, like, I know that, like, my little daughter,

when she's, like, struggling with something, I'm one of the only people. I'm probably one of two people. Maybe we can throw her teacher in there, one of three people, in the world that can affect change in that moment. Like, I can help her find understanding and get through whatever conflict

she's trying to address in that moment. Like, that's one place where I do have meaningful input. Yeah. at this point you're like do you think about your legacy well do you care about legacy is that important I don't know

I don't think well I don't think you have any control over legacy first of all I don't think you get to choose that somebody else choose that for you hmm you get to obviously you have a hand in the you have a hand in the the factors that go into legacy but like we were talking about

great artists that have been canceled before and like without naming any of that we were talking about like Rale and stuff But, like, you know, is R. Kelly's legacy that he was one of the greatest musicians ever? Or is it all that awful shit that he's in jail for? Probably some of both. You know? Pablo Picasso, is it for being one of the most influential painters in all of recorded history?

Or that he was like an awful, awful womanizer. And just, like, destroyed, left a path of destroyed women. So, like, I don't, no, I don't think about that. I try to think about that. I think that's a very self-indulgent thing to think. about. What I do though, where I put a lot of focus is like in my own little world of YouTube and social media and stuff. I don't think the, I think the top of the funnel of like YouTube and content being created and shared on the internet just keeps getting wider,

which is such a beautiful thing. Like anyone now, like if you like bake great pies or you like have something that's really esoteric, you can find your audience. Like I follow, um, this is the weirdest shout out I've ever done. I follow these women on TikTok. And they're, we're just thinking of it. I'm glad you said on TikTok. No, no, I can't afford a crime, dude. I can't be following. I follow these women downtown. Like, no, Casey. No, I follow these women on TikTok and they're, they're, the name of their channel is plus size park hoppers. And these women are enormously obese women. And I hope that's like PC to say. Like they're very large women. Yeah, I think that's fine. They're probably, like,

they probably weigh more than 350 pounds each. They're very, very large human beings. And their channel is going to Disney World and sharing whether or not they fit into chairs. It's not funny. You don't laugh at these people. This is sit. I'm totally,

whether or not they can fit into the chairs in the restaurants. So I have a video on it's like, hey, are you, I wish I can remember the euphemisms they use, but like, are you like, it's not plus size. There's a different word than that that they use. But it's like, are you an enormous person and wondering if you can fit on Space Mountain? We'll come with us and we'll figure it out.

They definitely have not tried Space Mountain. But they do that for all this shit in Disney World. And I think it's fascinating. And like they've found their audience. And I watched one of their videos the other day and they're reviewing mobility carts. Like after walking all day, you can get tired and your legs can get chafed.

But if you're in a moment, mobility card, it's a great way to see Disney World. And I'm watching it and I'm watching it. And at the end it was like this video was sponsored by like a mobility car. And I'm like, they did it. Wow. They found their niche. Yeah.

There's enough of an audience of oversized. I wish I knew the correct language to describe big people of gigantic people that want to go to Disney World but don't know if they can fit in a specific chair and a specific restaurant that these three women are five, I don't know how many there are. They found their audience and they're now building a Disney World, but they're not building a career and getting paid off of that. Yeah, if someone pitched you that idea five years ago, they're like, hey, this is my idea.

I mean, first of all, I would say definitely do it because I'm dying to see that. I would be your first follower, but I don't know if it would have been commercially viable. And, like, it seems to be working. But the point I was making is that, like, the top of the funnel for online content is never been wider. Everybody can find their place in it.

But in my opinion, like, the bottom of the funnel of really, truly, like, forward-thinking, brilliant work is as small as it's ever been. And if you think, like, how old are you? 27. And you're just a fucking kid. But if you think, like, when I was young, when you were young, like on TV, there's so much shit.

It's true today. Turn on Netflix. There's a thousand movies and five are great. You know, there's a hundred new TV shows. Two are great. And I think on the internet, there's, you know, I don't know what the numbers are. I think on YouTube, there's like 500 million channels.

There's a thousand that are great. There are 10,000. that are great. What constitutes greatness? I mean, I think it's always the eye of the beholder. But for me, like, you know, the way art is defined, and I credit my brother Van for teaching me this, although I don't know if he's the one who came up with this first,

but, like, the purpose of art is to communicate what the artist was feeling through their medium of work. So you're communicating an emotion. So talking about Pablo Picasso, if you look at his, you know, maybe his most famous, famous work, which is Guernica. He painted that after the Spanish Civil War, and they, like, bombed the shit out of Madrid.

It was the first time, like, a civilian city had been bombed from the air. And it was just horror, and that's what that painting is. And if you stare at that painting long enough, you start to see the horror and you feel the angst that he must have felt when he was there right after that bombing. If you listen to, like, an amazing love song, and it, like, makes you cry a little bit. Then you're feeling what that musician was feeling when they were, recorded it. So for me, with videos, if you can communicate that emotion, whether it's like celebratory, like somebody having like really fun, like a great vlogger who's just communicating

like the love for life, you know, like that something's like, whoa, this is truly great, this is fantastic work. You know, or I'm trying to think of like who some of my favorite YouTubers are right now, but just like I like YouTubers that like have a certain love for life like Whistling Diesel is my favorite probably my favorite YouTuber and it's like would you call him an artist I don't fucking know like I don't think a label's necessary for for anyone but certainly not for a guy like that but it's like the amount of fun he's having and the the way he seeks out fun which is like I will let nothing get in my way of doing something absurd and fun and over

the top that is communicated through his work and I think that's what makes him great. That's awesome. Yeah. Rick Rubin talks about this a little bit. Completely. Do you do you, did you read his book or like watch it any of his stuff? All of it. I genuinely think he's like a brilliant, not only tastemaker, but also like curator and like creative therapist in a way. But he has this this point that I think about with stand-up all the time that the ultimate pursuit of your art should be genuine self-expression. And to your point, like transmute what you're feeling through the medium that you're dealing with. And so it doesn't really make sense to compare to people. Because ultimately,

Ultimately, the comparison is, is this person expressing themselves more than this person? Like, that is, like, really what the comparison is. It shouldn't be about, like, commercial or financial. It is, is their expression the best? And you can't really compare it to people because you can't express me better than me, you know? And I can't express you. The purpose of me is to not be Casey. It's to express me as good as possible.

And so ultimately, I think, I feel the same way. I'll look at YouTubers and I go, oh, this person's expressing them in their purest way. So that means they're succeeding regardless of what the views are. Sure. Yeah. But the counter to that is that I think the 999,000, 99 creators, YouTubers that you watch that you feel nothing from, they're all full of shit. Like they aren't trying to communicate their true selves. They aren't trying to share a perspective.

They're not trying to share an idea. I think they're in pursuit of views and engagement. and ego and money and fame and these other sorts of things that I don't judge for, God bless. I totally get it. It makes sense to me. But it's not exciting for me.

Like who was that guy who was like the famous guy behind like Britney Spears and he was behind in sync and he kids on the block. It was like one guy from Orlando. Oh yeah. And he was like his focus wasn't about making great music. His focus was about like

how can we create a vehicle that makes money? It was about sensationalism and attention. He's a business person, not an artist. That's right. And it doesn't mean that Britney Spears wasn't an artist. And it doesn't mean that like, if I knew the name of the new kids on the blocks, I would say their names right now. It doesn't mean they're not.

But it's like it started from a place where it was about trying to build a business. And I think a lot of what we're seeing now is that. I think more than we're seeing that is like, it's about ego or something like that. And people don't know what to do. Yeah. So they just sort of emulate others or they put bullshit out there. And that's why like, you know, almost everything I click on. I'm just like, it's that top of the funnel thing,

which is like, it's just not for me. like this is fucking garbage work. Yeah. And then it really puts on a pedestal something that's great. And this whole diatribe started when you asked me about legacy. And I don't know much about legacy, but integrity is something that I hold really near and dear. And I think that like as that top of the funnel has gotten wider,

it's made me appreciate the need to like try as best I can to hang on to the integrity of my own work. and to like without sounding too like self-aggrandizing about it it's like I get so much opportunities to do like really paid work and like you know I've got three kids and like it's how I make a living so it's hard to say no to work

it's hard to figure out when to say no to work it's hard to figure out how to do less work when like the more videos I put out the more money you make from it but for me like the North Star has always been like is it good or is it not good. It's very Rick Rubin-esque, but it's like, if I don't think I can make something that's good, no matter what, don't put it out. Just don't put it out. Have you ever done that? Like, even

starting way back in your career, compromised your artistic vision for money and views. Yeah. Do you have an example of that? I don't know that I can pinpoint an example. I mean, I can pinpoint a bunch of examples of when I've made something I think has sucked. You know, like my brother, Van and I quit our day jobs in like 2003 because we had an opportunity to make a music video. And this is when And like, MTV was still as relevant as it could be. And music videos are coolest. Like, Spike Jones, Mr. Schell Gondry, like, our favorite filmmakers were music video directors.

And we, like, went for broke to make a music video, and it was fucking terrible. And I feel bad to this day. Like, I feel like we left the band in the lurch because we made them a video that wasn't good. And why was it not good? We just didn't do a good job. We had a concept, and I think it was too ambitious. And it was beyond, you know, we.

pushed ourselves too hard and it ended up coming out as mediocre. Like what made us great then is it was just like two knuckleheads trying to figure out how to make interesting videos. And then we got all this money to make a music video. So we tried to make one the way everybody else makes a music video. It just wasn't good. It wasn't a good video. But that wasn't compromising my integrity.

When I think of like compromising, I looked to like when I was doing my daily vlog. So it was like a video a day every day. And I did it for like 800 days in a row. Towards the end, I was just like done. I didn't have there was nothing that I felt like was untapped

every like ounce of interestingness in my life I had extracted it exploited for subject matter and like my role with comments

is like it don't affect me unless there's some semblance of truth in them like when people are just like making fun of me

or whatever it's like the rolls right off of me like I feel nothing but when it's true like when there's a little bit of truth in there I just remember

towards the end of the vlog, like I made this episode and it was like my buddy and I escaped, like it was just like literally we had nothing to do it. I was like, help me with this, we went and shot some shit and I formed, paddied it into an episode and published it in one of the comments was like, it feels like Casey's out of ideas and you're just doing this now for the views.

And I was like, fuck, busted. And it was like, I stopped like a week later. Because I just like, it was like I was still making interesting stuff but there's a couple days a week where I was just like, I've got nothing today. and I still form and patty whatever I could to make something

We need to find that comment We need to find that guy We need to go beat him up No, I want to find him and thank him Because he was right, I was wrong Yeah We have plenty of people in the comment section We should beat the shit out of him

But not that guy Yeah, he nailed it No, and it hurt Yeah, that's the worst When it is completely on the nose And you go, yeah, you're right actually You know what I mean? Yeah, I've gotten a bunch of those

And I've actually listened to comments And I'm like, yeah, I actually agree I am going to change that Yeah And I'm like, no, this is actually a really astute observation. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But that's tough when what you're trying to do is then you've extracted everything, every little inch.

Like you see those stand-of comedians all the time. Like their first hour is perfect because they spend eight, ten years, 12 years crafting this perfect hour. And then it hits and they go, all right, what's your next one? You go, it took me 10 years to do that one. And so then you like are thinking and you're like, what else is going on? And then you stop living a life worth talking about. and then as a result you're just only on the road

only doing the thing and ever actually living the inspiration or the source that feeds the expression and then you're like fuck what am I doing right it's like the country western singers who would always like seek conflict in their personal lives because that was the catalyst

that's their muse yeah exactly and then you're living a life beholden to the most destructive aspects of your existence yeah it's a shame I don't want that yeah so I just work less now I work so little now I just prefer to like hang out in my office and build shelves Also you brought up Michelle Gondry

Yeah That music video he does with Bjork The play inside of a play Yeah That blew my mind the first time I ever watched it I remember as a kid like my brother turned on or whatever I don't know we're watching Bjork Just some young floaty young men watching Bjork

I was like this is what we need What about like yes Full stop yes but like his white stripe stop frame Lego. You seen that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a while ago, yeah. It is unbelievable.

And like my favorite is like, what's the white stripe song? I was like, dun, don't, don't. I mean, I'm like, one of it. No, that's not it. That's a seven-nation army. But whatever, one of the videos, and it was just stop frame, but all in camera. So it would like show Jack White, like, going down a flight of steps with like on the drums. In, like, New York City.

And I was like, I know how he did that. you just film in one spot and then cut it to the beat like it was so obvious but like that was the sort of ethos of my wanting to be a filmmaker interesting because they were watching it I was like I could do that yeah it seemed tangible

yeah and you were also clever enough to figure it out it was like I'm not that clever it was like that obvious it was like that's not that's doable yeah it's why like I like you know I always like to show broken things in my videos like edit things leave things wrong I always leave spelling errors in my titles some jackass was like

Dude, you know that you misspelled the word the in your title? And it's like, no, I know that I misspelled it. But like those little things are just a way of letting the audience know, like, no, it's just one human that made this. Yeah. Like a fallible human that makes mistakes. Yeah. And that's why, like, practical effects, like the original, like,

what's the car that they drive in a new hope, the first Star Wars? I don't know. The speeder that, like, they drive into tattooing. Okay, it's like a little car that floats. That's what they drive into Tatooine in the first Star Wars. If you can find it, which is very hard to find, because they've redone it 100 times. They couldn't remove the wheels from underneath that.

So what George Lucas did is they put Vaseline on the lens. So it just blurred. Oh, wow. So in the original version of that movie, the car is floating, sure. But there's like a mistake. It's just like this glob there. And for me, that captures my imagination so much more than like Jar Jar Binks done on computer

or like some perfect CGI thing that I have no human relationship with. Yeah. Yeah, the imperfections make it fundamentally human. It makes it from nature. Yeah. I mean, what in nature is like perfect? You go out there and you're like, yeah,

all this shit is like janky and put together imperfectly, but it all works. Yeah, look at this knife, yeah. Yeah, it's not perfect. You go under a microscope. There's so many problems with this. Yeah, a lot of problems with this. It's a nightmare.

But on the macro scale, it's kind of perfect. Yeah, it gets it done. And I had a, I did a talk at, maybe it was the MoMA. It's like some big museum years ago. And it was called Perfection Erases Humanity. And it was about this exact idea that like technology now lets us make anything perfect. It doesn't mean anything. That's why I still like to do titles where I just like write it on a piece of paper and film the piece of paper.

Because, and it's why when I do like regular titles in my video, I use whatever the default font is. It's either Ariel or Helvetica. because I like I have trouble seeing creative expression by scrolling through and picking out a font it's like I don't

I think that's bullshit yeah it doesn't do it for me yeah yeah something tangible like what's human about this yeah yeah that was my thing I know you've talked about this a little bit

but like artificial intelligence when it comes to art like AI art to me my problem with it is like the lack of humanity which ultimately the humanity comes through the imperfection you know what I mean

like like the idea of someone running a four minute mile is amazing because it's human it says something about me but if I see a robot do it it's not as impressive because there's not I'm not involved in it it doesn't reflect me in some way and ultimately human beings are kind of ego machines and it's like what does it say about me so if I watch a robot do a form a mile I'm like whatever but a human that's amazing and which is why when I look at you know you look at David you know the sculpture you're like oh wow a human did that that's something about me I am a part of the team that made that thing right but if a robot does it it's like oh fuck I had nothing

to do with that. Yeah, I think a lot of the AI stuff in art is somebody very smart broke it down in the least romantic way possible. And it was just like reshoots are going to be able to be done now without the actors. Like that's phase one. And then sort of

just like chronologically broke down how like a lot of the really uninteresting technical aspects of filmmaking will be able to be supplanted and supported by by AI in a way that's super practical and will work. It's like, okay, that makes sense.

Like, I can see that happening because, like, all of these, like, watching a fucking dinosaur turn into a dolphin and then swim through the sea and jump out on a rainbow and fly through space and it looks photo real.

Yeah, but who gives a shit? Like, I don't care. That doesn't fucking mean anything. Yeah. Like, it's not going to affect me. I will watch that on Twitter and be like, wow, I can't believe AI did that.

that. Okay, what's next? Where are you going to go from there? It doesn't make storytelling any better or easier. It doesn't make like capturing the human experience any better or easier. And maybe it will get there. And if it does, that's a terrifying thing. That's a different problem. But it is like the human experience communicated through any medium that is like the highest form of art. And for it to close that gap, like there's like the, is it Fibonati, the thing where it's like, you're trying to get to 100, and it's like on day one, you get to 50, on day two, you get to 75, on day three, you get to 87.5, and then 92.5. Zeno.

You're only ever getting halfway closer to the finish line. Yeah, and it's a finite distance, but it's infinitely far. That's exactly right. Yeah. So with AI, like, yeah, that shot of Will Smith eating spaghetti, do you know what I'm talking about? Like a year ago, it's like, now it looks photorealistic. It's like, that is incredible. You're halfway there.

And then halfway again. That's exactly right. But to actually close that final gap, which is like capturing humanity better than humans can, it's so hard for me to see that as a reality. Do you think there's any injection? Is there any way to couple your creative expression with AI? Yeah, I think absolutely.

I think it's a tool, though, like anything else. It's like, you know, the movie Up makes me cry. Those aren't real humans. They don't even look like humans. You could never make a house fly by. attaching balloons to it. There's like, that movie is so far, like, dogs can't talk. That movie, there's no truth in that movie.

But it tells the human story. Like that montage at the beginning where he falls in love with his wife, do you know what I'm talking about to see the movie yet? And like, it's like a minute and a half of him and his wife and their whole life together. And when she dies at the end, I'm like, what the fuck is going on? Why am I crying right now? What is this? Eight minutes into the movie.

It's fucking brutal. Yeah. Okay, that movie was done on a computer And like it captured the human emotion So yeah, I think there's a place for it But it wasn't the computer that made it Communicate the human The computer is just a tool

That computer generated imagery was just the tool That they used to communicate Somebody else might use their voice If they're a singer The piano, like the sound that is that What's this? Sing it, come on Wait which one? Oh, how does the up one go?

No, that's not up. It's married life from up. I don't hear it. Okay, maybe it's there. But like those are all tools, but they're driven by humans. They're driven, like, whoever wrote that, Andy Lasseter, is that the guy's name? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he directed it, but whoever wrote that was writing from a human experience.

So, yeah, I think that AI will play an extremely important role. as a tool of filmmaking. And the same way that, like, you know, we can film high-resolution movies on our cell phones now, and we used to have to have gigantic 35-millimeter cameras. Like, these tools have made it so much easier. So it doesn't mean these things are making better movies.

Right. It doesn't mean that these are communicating the human experience any better. Still the operator. That's right. And I think that that's, that is overlooked when people talk about AI. And if ever there's a time

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No, bear with me. Samsung, way back later when they came out with the first folding phone. Oh, yeah, yeah. I was one of the first people to ever get to see it, and I made a video. And it was so mind-blowing that I was like, mark my words, in five years, every single device will be folding like this because it was just so over, the technology is so overwhelming.

Okay, not the case. When I used that Vision Pro, and I made like a video that went super like everybody's talking, like the video got a lot of attention. That technology is so over, have you tried it on yet? No, I haven't. It's so overwhelming. Like James Cameron described it as like a religious experience, and it is. like watching a movie on it is unlike anything it's unreal and the operating system

where it's like you just look at something and then tap your fingers together like it's so good that after like using it for two days I was in like the grocery store the next day without the Vision Pro on and I'm like looking at the various milks like tapping my fingers together being like really

yeah like it worked its way into my real world humanity that's how good it is I haven't used it since the third day I haven't And the worst thing that I can say, it pains me to say this, because when that thing came out, I was like, this is it.

It's in the same drawer as my, whatever the meta ones called, the meta quest three. The quest. Like, which, like, just like my kids are like, can I play with it? I take it out and it's dead. It's been sitting in there for so long.

Like, I haven't thought about or used my vision pro. I just don't know where it fits in the life. Hmm. Yeah. When you first tried the AirPods, you were like, I'm going to use this every day. And I have. Like, there's never like,

yeah. Same thing. They're a critical part of my life. The second you try them, you go, this is better than anything I've used, and I will never go back to the old thing. That's right. Your first time you use an iPhone, you go, I need one of these in my pocket at all times. First time you use a Blackberry.

Like, there's only a couple of things. Yeah. There's transformational, like, principal moments. Technology that, yeah. That changed everything. And this didn't do it. It felt like it was. And it absolutely could be.

When it becomes as light as these glasses that I wear 22 hours a day, totally. But it's like, I think the hard. The hardest part about the Vision Pro is, do you remember Google Glass? Yeah, yeah. Okay, it was a huge Google Glass guy. Really? I didn't know that. Oh, man.

My first, like my tech startup, Beam, was originally going to be a Google Glass app. We built it. We rooted the Google Class, and we made it so you just tap it like that, and it would capture 10 seconds of what you're saying, then immediately publish it to your feed. So you could see the world through someone else's eyes almost literally. You just tap it and you'd share what you're seeing. Oh, wow. I love Google Glass, but the main reason why it didn't work is the social reason.

Like, you're comfortable with me right now. I'm comfortable with you right now. But if I was sitting like this, you start to feel a little bit anxious. Yeah. It's like, what are you doing? Why are you doing that? Exactly. So the Google Glass has this big camera here, and it was just too much.

And like, that's when the term glass holes came out. Like, if you're wearing Google, you're an asshole. And like, any time a friend would have it on, I'd be like, are you filming me right now? Like, am I being recorded? There's this angst. And I think that vision pro is like the highest level of that social kind of angst, which is like, I'm not going to wear it around other people. You don't know what I'm seeing.

You don't know what I'm capturing. Like you don't know. And I have to believe Apple knew that. That's why they put the thing on the outside. We can see somebody's eyes. But like, I can't wear it around my family. Yeah. Can't wear it around my wife.

I'm not going to wear it around my friends. So I can only wear it when I'm alone. But then like, you know, like that to overcome that, I think is a huge. deal. Yeah. No, I agree. There is something inhuman about it and something that is giving an ambient discomfort. Yeah. I'm constantly like, wait, are, like, you do

this where you talk shit about someone and you go, I got to mute my phone, I got to put it on an airplane mode. Like there's already a discomfort about your phone in your pocket and that never happens. Now imagine you're talking to someone and you're like, oh, dude, my boss is so annoying. And it's, where are you filming me right now? Right, they have this just spaceship on their face. Yeah. So I don't know how they

overcome that because it feels like the software is what's the most exceptional, extraordinary thing. Like, that's what you're responding to is the software. No one cares about the hardware. They look like ski goggles. It's terrible. It's this huge thing. Yeah.

But the software is amazing. But is there a way to maintain enough enthusiasm and momentum for the, for what that is, spatial computing or whatever words they made up for it? Is there enough enthusiasm for that to, like, maintain for the decades? plus it's going to take to shrink that thing down to it being invisible. Yeah, and then when it's invisible, where is it? We're all fucked. Yeah, where does it go?

But we're both going to have them. Yeah, a million percent. You fall behind. Yeah. Like, how do you like square your feelings about it? Because on the one hand, you're like, okay, social media is like a cancer and it's like, it's so annoying and it's giving us all this crazy information. But on the other hand, this technology is so fun and so cool.

And surveilling my situation at all times is like really exciting. Do you feel like there's like a cognitive dissonant? personally. Yeah, I think that, I think it's becoming evident that like whatever benefits we saw in social media, like, you remember when like it first came out and like they credited the Arab Spring when there was all those like, you know, overthrows in the Middle East and stuff, they credited like Twitter or Facebook from enabling that and you're like, whoa, like the power of the people is now personified in these apps where we have this like

egalitarian communication system where one man has as much power and authority as any other. one man. But here we are 12 years later or whatever. And it's like, no, we're like a mental health crisis that's out of control and like we're understanding the dangers of it and I, it scares the shit

out of me. So I have like, this is like my main phone and I only have one phone number but I have like a disposable like a burner phone and I got like a mint mobile like month to month

$10 a month plan for it. Is it like a flip phone? Yes. And what it is is I have my call forwarding on this turned on. And it goes to the flip phone. So I can leave my main phone anywhere at any point in time and just have my flip phone. And I can't text. I have no social media.

I can do nothing from it. But receive calls and call the 10 people whose numbers I have saved in there. And I don't use it ever. I'm trying I'm trying I did the same thing with Apple Watch I got the Apple Watch because it has cellular

and so I can leave my phone at home and if someone calls me I can talk to my mom and be like is everyone alive okay good but I just never I'm always like but I might need it

I might call an Uber you need an Uber like so-and-so only contacts me on Instagram and it's like it's so far infiltrated our lives that like how are you supposed to get by without it

but it is absolutely toxic. It scares me that you say that because you're one of the most disciplined people I've ever met. You've run 20 miles every single morning. You vlog every day for three years or whatever the fuck, four years. It's like you can set your mind to anything and commit to it,

but yet the seduction of the scroll, even for Casey. I feel completely in control. And like every aspect of my is the only place. It's like I was thinking about drugs this morning. That was a fun thing for us to talk about would be drugs because I think my

My caffeine addiction is completely out of, like, I have to rein it in. It's starting to make me, I think, I think I'm being poisoned because I drink so much caffeine. Yeah. Caffeine is one of my favorite drugs. Do you know that caffeine is a performance-enhancing drug? Like a banned performance-enhancing substance until like the late 80s in a handful of sports? I did not know that. Yeah.

Like, that's how great caffeine is. Yeah. But I think I probably drink too much coffee. It's like among my favorite drugs. So I have to pull that back. You ever do pre-work out? Yeah, just like fucking cocaine Yeah

My favorite thing I do my gym routine is I wake up in the morning I hit a pre-workout I do the C4 of the total war Like these are like 250 grams of Yeah, it's like 4 grams of black coffee It's crazy and then I listen to tribal drumming So it's Doodoo do do do do do do do and I go to a hour

And just forget about the world It's the best part of my day But then I'll go to work or I'll be in here And I'm like okay I'll do one cold brew And then I'll do like one tea a green tea, like how much cat. And then literally, I feel my heart hurting at the end of the day. And I'm like, oh, I did way too much.

I have like a fridge filled up with, like, Celsius and red Bulls and prime energy. And it's like, I can't, it's like after 11, I can't have any more coffee. I'll just have one of these. Yes. What is that? It's like a soft drink. Yeah, all day long go through that. So, like, but like my other favorite drugs are like cigarettes, I think might be number one.

I haven't smoked a cigarette in probably 20, like since I was like 22, 23. but I remember you know and I also remember like people being like you shouldn't smoke I don't understand why people smoke

it's so stupid smoking is fucking amazing you ever seen Shawshank Redemption do smoking is amazing beyond the fact that you look impossibly cool yeah it helps

and it's a social thing let's go outside and have smoke like it calms you like you're in your road trip and you smoke a cigarette you wake up in the morning like you have a cup of coffee and a cigarette it is the greatest thing

after a long flight you do eight hours to Japan you've ever been to a friend France. They still smoke there like it's the 90s. You get like the hand rolled, like they're the smooth ones. You're having a cappuccino and a cigarette. It's just so,

cigarettes are amazing. I think about like what in my life, like what, under what circumstances in my life do I get to start smoking again? Like World War III? Like if we're at war, if we're like the Russians are in the Hamptons and it's like,

got to go load my guns. It's like, yo, grab me a pack of Winston's too. It's time. You know? Like, yeah. Or, like, I don't know what other circumstances I would do, but, like, I think about smoking. But I'm in control.

I haven't smoked a cigarette in 20 years. And, like, though I think about it all the time. Every day. Every day you think about it. Cigarettes aren't part of it. Like, and like, same, like, drinking. I've never, like, I like, I think alcohol is a super fun drug. You hear, like, Burke Kreischer talk about.

Oh, yeah. The sunrise in the morning. Yes. Sunrise at night with a cocktail. Or the sunset. Yeah, it's beautiful. He's right in that blissful feeling when you drink. but like

then I like the downs like I feel sick and I like run the next day and I feel like like a like I feel like a jerk

for the way I acted so it's like okay I'll back that off it's like again it's like I feel in control what about sugar what about sugar sugar?

Sugar is like a battle like my sister has a whole TikTok channel and it's only about how she hasn't had sugar in two years oh wow I didn't know that and I'm like

I like to stay really healthy sugar is a huge vice for me I love sugar I was saying why and like yesterday I had like a relapse I had like a box of cookies and two packs of king-sized packs of M&Ms. Wait, which cookies?

Which cookies? They're like these, like at the grocery store, the ones that come like the clear plastic things. They're not like Nabisco really shitty cookies, but they're not the ones made in the bakery there. They get like 15 of them in a plastic. Yeah, yeah. Okay, ate the whole box. Nice. And so sugar, like I'm in control, usually.

I just every once in all I have moments of weakness. The pattern I'm trying to draw here is things that like even I have like a chemical propensity towards nicotine, alcohol, sugar. Literally dependent. Yes. I am my power of my will, I can overcome them. And there's only one exception where I feel fucking helpless, like a newborn baby level helpless. And that's social media.

Like I'll be around the people that I love more than anything in this world. and like rather than like talking to my daughter about her day at school went I'll be mindlessly scrolling through Instagram there's nothing to see yeah you know I'll be like in the car with my wife just the two of us we don't have any time together we have kids we both work and like rather than talking to her I'll just be like looking at nothing yeah never realize I'm doing it and then she's like put that away I'll get mad at her and when I tell her like what are you doing put that away

and I know she's just looking at Instagram she'll get mad at me for saying that yeah like what do we what do we what we doing here? Yeah, yeah. But tonight when your kids are trying to hang out with you and you're scrolling, I bet you the next scroll, that one's going to be the best one. Yeah. Just remember. Just remember that? Whatever it is I'm looking for, it's just one more page away. I bet you it is. Just tonight, remember that. It's one more page away. It'll be worth it. All the anxiety and doom that you feel. I bet you

just right there. Yeah, yeah. It'll make you go good. And it's like the why of it, like, like the justification, like, oh, I see interesting stuff and I get to make movies about it. Or like, what if we're having a conversation and you bring something up that I haven't seen? that I'm out in the dark. So I need to consume everything. Yeah. But again, even that, I look at that.

I used to feel the same way. I was like, I need to know what's going on. But the alternative is that I could ask you and have a human moment and go, hey, Casey, what's this thing with the, you know, it's going on with the NBA? And you can be like, oh, yeah, I saw it today and I'll tell it to you.

And then we could have a human moment. But instead of that, my ego is like, no, I need to know because he's going to think I'm dumb. Yes. It's kind of rooted in insecurity in a way. I think completely it's rooted in insecurity. How old were you when you got a smartphone? I was probably 16, 15.

Okay, so you missed it then. Although maybe you had like just enough to taste it. It was just in your rear view. But I'm 43. So I am without a doubt the very last generation that got to grow up without any of that. Yeah. Like without internet.

You know, like when I was 16, it was in 1997. Like there was like a couple of, there was some internet, but it really like the dot com and all that shit didn't happen until like 99, 2000. And by that I was, you know, 20 years old, 19 years old. And this, like, very boomer thing, which is that it was better than, I think is an objective truth.

Yeah. I think that, like, go back and watch any movie made before, you know, 2003. Like, we watched Big, which is like my favorite movie ever. My whole life is modeled after Tom Hanks, the movie Big. We watch with my kids. They're finally old enough where instead of watching Frozen every single time we turn the TV on, they'll watch these 90 movies.

Yeah. Like, Don't tell Mom, the babysitter's dead, and like all those movies. We're showing them, The Home Alone series. Oh, wow.

We watched Beethoven, the one about the dog. Do they appreciate it the way you appreciated it? No, but they like it. And it speaks to them because those movies are fucking gnarly, by the way.

Yeah. Like the shit they showed kids back then. You look back on it, you're like, what the? Yeah, exactly. But these kids are scared shitless and it's like,

okay, this is cool. That's why I like those movies. But all those movies, every Spielberg movie is like, go back and watch E.T. It's like kids interacting pre-social media, pre-phones, pre-any of that. And it's like E.T, if you remember, like so much, have you seen E-T?

I actually have seen E.T. I haven't seen most movies. I don't fucking climb across this. But I have seen E.T. Like, they're on BMX bikes. That's all they do is race around the woods on BMX bikes. That's what I did as a kid. Yeah.

And like in the movie big, they're like walking down the street and they're chatting with their friends and they're hanging out and they're nervous about girls. And they go to the fair and there's like the fun fair and the hot girl. He's not tall enough to go on the ferris wheel. with the girl. And, like, that was why he went to the Zoltar machine and was like, I want to be big. Like, that was the motivation behind that. So, like, I don't just think that, like, my childhood was better because I didn't have

social media. I think everyone's childhood. I think my dad's childhood was better. I think that, like, everyone got to experience life in a much more humane form or was about actually interacting with people. Yeah. I mean, I'm blown away, like, genuinely flummoxed by the idea that you had to meet up with your friends without a map or a phone.

I remember asking my brothers So what would you do if you want to see someone They'd be like well you would see him at school You'd be like let's meet at the mall at this time tomorrow And then if you were 20 minutes late You didn't hang out with your friends at that day That's how it worked That to me is genuinely crazy

And like the most extreme example I haven't thought about this in so long my god But my buddy Joe and I He's still my best friend though Like I saw him this weekend He lives in Connecticut I love this guy But like he would sleep over my house Fuck how old were we

Probably 13 and we would make plans with these girls with Chrissy and Mandy and it would be like we're going to meet you at 2 in the morning here and so like we would have to sneak out of my parents' house they'd have to sneak out of their parents' house and we'd have to walk through town

without like having anybody see us because back then if you saw 13-year-olds at 2 in the morning you call the police and like we would like meet up with them we'd like meet down by the river like fucking Tom Sawyer and we'd meet on the train tracks and like I'm one of the times

they didn't show up and it was like just standing there like, what the fuck? We walked like an hour on the train tracks. We're supposed to meet them here and they never showed up. And we saw them on Monday. We were like, guys, what happened? Like our mom caught us because we were trying to sneak out.

We couldn't get anywhere. But it was like, yeah, that's what child. But think about, like, think about what you learn as a 12-year-old through that experience. You're like Ernest Shackleton, just like soaring through the water, like trying to find a fucking island somewhere. And the failure, like, maybe they didn't, maybe they don't like us anymore. and that's why they're not meeting up with us. Like, what if they got hit by car?

Yeah. Like, all of that emotion, as like a child, you're trying to navigate. You have to confront that shit head on. Yeah. And I look at my daughter and, like, we're... I would say on a scale of, like, one to child abuse, the amount of electronics that our kids have, we're like a four or five,

10 being just, like, straight to jail. That's pretty good. We limit it, but we're weak. Like, if we're having a bad day, it's like, go use your fucking iPad. That's the thing. How are you going to blame eye? iPad kids when we are iPhone adults.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't blame them at all. You know, this is like so perverse. We put a TV in our kids' room as part of the solution. And it works. Because the idea they're going to watch iPads in bed. It's like, no.

It's like every night when it's bedtime, we watch 20 minutes of a movie. We read. We do all that stuff. But like when it's bedtime, the transition from like two hysterical children to like ready to like fall asleep, we watch a movie. And we get to pick the movie of the adults. but like we put a TV in their room for that reason. Which is crazy.

Imagine telling someone in the 90s like, hey, the way you're going to get your kids to behave, get a TV. By the best thing you do for your kids. But no, the point I was making is like we're, we're decent in the amount that we limit them.

Yeah. And like social media is obviously off limits and all that stuff. But my daughter has, both of them, but my older daughter has eye message in FaceTime. And the amount that she communicates with their friends is lovely, and we love to see it. It's like,

oh my gosh, look how many friends. she has, how excited she gets to speak with them. They're so excited to talk to her. It's like it, you know, warms your heart because you see a kind of acceptance and enthusiasm for socializing. But juxtapose that would like,

what if that didn't exist? What would she have to do? Yeah. It's a little bit like the YouTube thing in a sense where it's like the funnel is bigger, the more friends she has is bigger, but in terms of the depth of the friendships? Yeah.

I don't know. And they see each other. And they see each other. Like they do have played it. Our kids are in every extracurricular activity on the planet five days a week. Sometimes six days a week. They're very busy and as much person-to-person interaction with their friends as we can possibly organize. But I don't know.

Like in the absence of that when I was a kid and nobody was there to hang out, I had to like wish I was hanging out with them. I was alone and had to figure shit out. Would you ever give them a smartphone or an iPhone? I mean, my wife and our official policy is like we're going to fight it tooth and nail as long as we can. So next year. Yeah. It's like you will not win. Yeah.

I understand that completely. I'm like, I'm going to have kids, there's no way. It's a tidal wave. You can keep yourself dry for as long as you possibly can, but you're going to be swallowed up by the water. So, you know, like, Candace and I talk about it, and it's like, there's really great apps, and then there's like this phone that's some like mormon or something invented and it's an Android phone. Yeah, the dumb phone? Is that what it is? different thing. But there's an Android phone. It's a smartphone. It looks like an iPhone. But it's

rooted in the OS, the version of Android that it runs, will not, you can't install any apps, except for like Bible apps, which is a little bit weird. Well, we wouldn't install those. But it would just mean she has this phone that there's no working around to put that on. That's an option, or you give them a dumb phone. What I said to Candace is like, what do we do when she's like 16 and all of her friends are on it? And it's how they communicate. And she's like, I have to have this because of this, this. And what do we do then? Yeah. And it's like we either give it to her or she's just going to like sneak it because phones are dirty.

Yeah. She gets a side job for a summer and then just has the newest iPhone. Yeah. Or just like figures it out. Like what do you do? And I don't know the answer to that. Yeah. And unfortunately for you, they also have your brain.

So they will figure. Yeah. And like they see us on our phones. Yeah. It scares the shit out of me. What's up guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I need to tell you about one of my favorite new products in 2024. It's called Zipix.

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And let's get back to the show. What about old New York? Like New York before iPhones. Like I look at that time and I'm like, I kind of long for that. I think that would be so cool to be running around the city being like, oh, hopefully we can get a cab. Or let's go to this bar and like. I used to ask my friend Jen all the time we grew up in the city. I was like, what was it like?

And she's like, we use pay phones a lot. And you just say meet me on like meet me on 72nd and 7th at, you know, 9 o'clock. And then they'd have to be there. but I can't I did get like my I moved to New York when I was 20 years old and that was in 2001 the smartphone didn't come out really until like 2010

2008 was but social media wasn't there so I had like my most chaotic party years my fun years where I was single and like I love to socialize and like drinking every night and partying million friends and we had phones to stay in

touch, but we had like the little Nokia phone. Oh, did you have the razor? I had a razor. I had every cool phone. I loved them back then, but like you couldn't do anything with them. If you took shitty cell phone pictures, you couldn't do anything with those no way to post them. So socializing without any of that

social media accountability was like a very different like I said, like I'm the last person to ever experience that. How was that window? Like that time? Did you have stories from those years? Yes, and it was freeing. Yeah. You could go out and be the sloppy drunk. You can go out and fuck up.

You could go out and stupid shit could happen. And it was fine. You just wake up the next day like full of regret. You're like, wake up next day and everybody would call you like, you know, like a bad example. Like one time my friend and I went to, we crashed the, we would go to the New York City Ballet's annual gala. But we never had tickets. But it was always a themed party. So I might be butchering this story a long time ago.

One year it was the Roman Empire. the theme. So we wanted to take our outfits as far as we could so they won't ask us for a ticket. So we dressed up as chariots and we got segways like the original segue you had to stand on and we built them out so they looked like the chariots. You know what a cherry. And then full Roman attire. And we got in. With the segways? We organized a trumpeteer to lead us in with the flag hanging down like presenting like that's what we did

to get into this party and we got it but we got so drunk that night and like such a manous I remember I crashed my segue into him and like severely injured him

and like long story long like the next day I just woke up and was like hey bro how's your leg I'm really sorry about that but like wasn't worried

about being canceled because somebody posted a video of me on like Snapchat of me just being a total drunk asshole to my friend Yeah.

You ever thrown up on the train on the subway? Yeah. I've also... Yeah. What happened? I don't know. What happened, dude? No, I've just definitely thrown up on the subway with a girl.

No. Just like, yo, let's pop back to my spot. Like, I couldn't afford a cab. I don't remember the specifics. I remember I threw up once in Vegas with my now wife when we were just dating. And I remember her being like, just shaming me. Like... Where'd you throw up?

On like the carpeted stairs at the Pelagio or something No no what's the gold one called That used to where all the fights were Seizers? No big tall gold Mandalay Bay Oh yeah

And I just remember like It was like 2007 I remember her shaming We've been dating for like six months And she's like This is not cool Casey Like you can't do this every time we get drunk Now I have to take care of you

Instead of having fun And like that's about as shamed as you can be Like I felt I remember it That's how shameder But I wasn't worried that somebody was like Post a picture of me peaking on the stairs I had one time I had a night

It was in college, we left the bar And the bar was right here in our town And my buddy Kyle's place was like I don't know like half a mile away And so we're all walking back from the bar And I don't really remember any of this I just the only thing I remember is waking up Seeing like a little bit of vomit on my sleeve

But otherwise just feeling kind of hung over But generally fine And I was like oh nice I guess maybe I threw up outside I don't even remember walks in the room and goes, Mark, what the fuck did you just do? I go, what? He's like, come with me.

And we go into the living room and I was like, oh, I threw open the living room. And we walk past the living room. I was like, whew, not a living room. We go outside. I was like, I threw up in the neighbor's yard. He's mad that I threw open, like, the neighbor's like tulips or some shit. Walk past the tulips. I'm like, whew.

But now I get a little stress. We get to his car. I was like, did I crash his car? What the fuck happened? He opens up the front door and there's vomit all inside his car. All night. It's been in there fermenting? Fermenting in the Florida.

heat. And I go, did we drive your car? He goes, no. That's what I want to know. Why the fuck did did you throw up in my car? And I was like, I don't know, dude. And basically what he told me is that I asked for his keys to get in the house. And then I took his keys and I ran back to the house, apparently, a full sprint in the middle of the night, 2.30 in the morning, down the cobblestone streets in Winter Park, Florida to get to his house. And apparently, I had to throw up. I don't know why in the hell I did this. I opened his car door, threw up in his car, closed the door, went to sleep. That could be friendship ending.

You know what I mean? I don't know. Like, how do you look that guy in the eye? Yeah. And then he was in my wedding party, so I guess it worked out. Good man. Yeah, he's a good, better man than I.

But the point is, like, there was a version of being yourself. Like, I never, I went to some concerts, but I wasn't a big music guy, but like when you go to concerts now, there's just a million people holding up their phones. Yeah. It's like, what's being lost here? Like, my favorite is fireworks.

Because, like, you could convince me that, like, Like you want to rewatch Taylor Swift. Like you spent a zillion dollars on those tickets. You want to relive that on your phone. I would still push back. But you could convince me of that. You're not going to look at those fucking fireworks photos. You're just not.

AI can take that. AI can make that. Like you're not going to take a picture of fireworks. You're not going to, like the sound's going to suck. So why not just be a human and take it in? But whether it's puking in your friend's car or watching Taylor Swift, it's like, it's hard to say having these things has been. made experiencing that as a human

better. I'm curious what you think of this specifically because like I have had nights where I go that was the best night in my life. Like that party we had last night with all the people came over and it was Halloween and everyone dressed up and I was dancing and I was killing it and everyone was looking to me and I was the man. And then I'll see

a video on Instagram or Snapchat and I go oh I was an idiot and I was kind of being annoying and I was like I look stupid and my dance moves suck and that girl that I was with actually thought it was being weird like whatever the thing is my head, then I realize that the video, the objective truth, actually destroys the memory of what I believe to have happened. And I'm curious for you documenting your entire life. Like the

last, like literally the last 20 years of your life is on film in the most objective form that it happened. Does it ever take away the romance of the memory? Um, no, it does something, but I don't know that it takes away the romance of memory, only because, like, you were robbed by the the way. You know what I mean? Like, you were robbed. If you thought that it's the greatest night of your life, you should have, and you didn't hurt anybody in the process. You should have been able to keep that. Yeah. Dancing is such a good example of that. Like, when you're having fun and you're dancing, there's that thing which is like never make fun of someone laughing or dancing because they're expressing joy. Yeah. And like, I'm a terrible dancer. And every time

I dance, my wife makes fun. And I just won't dance anymore because I've been shamed. She stole that from me. in that video stole that from you. But my daily vlog was a very sober, both literally and figuratively. Like it was very deliberate in what I captured, what I shared, how I captured it. I knew what I was doing. So it's not that the romance has been taken from me. I think that there's other downsides to it. Like, I think in the moment, you know, for those 800 days, like I definitely, I lost out on a lot of life.

because I was so focused on one like what was I doing that could be shared in a way that was communicable or compartmentalize a meant like in a way that I could form impotting to a three-act narrative like okay this is this is the first act I came here to go on your podcast I skateboarded over here in the rain that's a cool little segment I want to show this tent like how awesome this is that's fun this is the first four minutes of an eight-minute video got that locked in That's what we're going through my head. Instead of, like, you show me around your space and you're telling the stories of this space.

We're just doing that because you're my friend and we're having a human experience and that's lovely. So the downside, the romance that was lost is, like, that was stripped from me. And then there was all these sort of secondary and tertiary invisible shockwaves because of that, like, impacts because of that.

Like, because that was the case, I would be, like, filming you, like, tell me about the tent. And I'd be like, I wouldn't be engaged with, And it'd be a different version of myself, so I'm trying to get something from you. So all of a sudden, like, you're not having a real experience with me either. Those sorts of things were like the, how it negatively affected my life. And I don't want to over-emphasize those because I had a very good grip on them. If, like, okay, like filming in here is not going to work because the light's not right,

that's a lie, it would be perfect in here. But if I thought that, then I would immediately put it away and I would just be here and be human. And I was good about that. But like, you know, for the three years I did that, I almost never fought with my wife to fight, despite the fact that we were on the verge of divorce for those three years,

because it was so much pressure of me working that much. But I wouldn't fight with her because I needed her to be in the videos. So any time there would be a conflict, no matter how big of a deal it was to me, all it was going through my head is like, how can I get past this and make things right because I need her?

And that's bullshit. Like, that was a really gnarly thing to do that I look back on it, like, Jesus. But as far as looking back at those videos now, so I started it in like 2015, it's 2024 right now. It's just, like I never watched my videos. I would finish them, I edited everyone myself. The minute I click upload, I have to start thinking about the next day.

So there's a very practical reason, but also like I don't need to go back and watch my own voice. I don't need, I've worked hard on in it. It's done, move on in life. So I've never seen any of my vlogs despite when I edited them. and now it's like for the first time of my life when I see them I'm like whoa like look how young I am

obvious but then also like look how different of a person I was I was more curious then I was like more excited then more enthusiastic there's like more naive then more playful then it was truly a different person then and I think what's interesting is like how long have you been married three and a half years okay you can like go back

and look at your wedding photos you can go back and look at your wedding video and you can see that, but what you're seeing is sort of like, you know, a calculated version of that. I can go back and look at my childhood videos. My mom had the camera out, like on holidays. She had the camera out in some of my birthdays. She had the big VHS camera. But what I have is like 800 days that actually show me. So I don't just get to see what I look like, and to see who I was. And it's crazy how much we change as people as we get older, but like we're frogs in boiling water. You don't notice it. And I have this thing, this very, this very,

vivid portrait, 800 of them of exactly who I was. And that is a very like unusual thing that I don't know I've ever really like

before we had these phone, like who else gets to do that? But even with the phone, I think what you did is its own experiment. Yeah. I think it's its own thing.

I don't think that will ever be replicated even with the phones in the way that you did it. I think it's its own little experiment about life that exists in its own

little capsule. Yeah. maybe I mean I'm excited I think like it's relevance to me personally definitely grows with time you know like my daughter I catch her watching my videos yeah she likes to find the ones where she's a baby in them

and like I try to imagine like what is what a weird fucking thing like what is that like for her and I think that like if I went on my dad my dad's 70 or 72 or something like that like if I'm 72 and I get to go back and watch my life day after day after day from when I was 35.

I just imagine how profound of an emotional experience that would be. Yeah. You can't lie to yourself. There's no part of you that can be like, oh, in this time, for better or for worse. Like for this time when my daughter was won, I was the best dad ever. You can look back on it and be like, oh, maybe this day I was actually frustrated at her and I remember it because it's all real. And I think that can keep you grounded, actually.

There's no narrative you can make to get yourself out of the objective truth. So maybe it's a benefit. What's wild is how hard it is for me to. Do that now like for me to like make a vlog now. I can make a video now. I love making videos I still make videos all the time but like to do a video where my plan is just to sort of capture my day I I struggle so much in what in what aspect I'm like second guessing like why am I doing this this feels so like Egotistical like this is like I don't want to like talk to the camera about what I'm doing like I hate that guy

That guy I don't think of like the younger version of myself. I just mean like I don't know. I think it's a confluence of factors. I think it's like me looking at YouTube and social media influencers and being like, oh, they're so fucking lame. And now I, like, if I'm doing that, like, I'm part of that. All of this sort of like very introspective anxiety-inducing, very, like, insecure, I guess where it comes from.

But like, all of that is just percolated up to the surface. Versus back then when I was just kind of in this back. And it just made total sense. I can't get back to being the person that was able to do that every day. And I've tried. Hmm. That person is just fundamentally a different person. I think so.

Yeah. Do you think the motivation changed? Or do you think it was self-awareness that that person was just kind of like blissfully ignorant? Like, yo, I'm just going to keep making these every day. Who gives a shit? Yeah. Yes, is the answer to that question. Yeah.

I think you said it very well. But like there was this sort of blissful ignorance. There's also like, you know, in 2015, which is when I started, I'd been making movies or in whatever capacity for a living for 15 years. You know, I had two movies in Sundance and three movies at the Cannes Film Festival and a show on HBO and directed TV commercials and music videos, ones that didn't totally suck, and like made a hundred viral videos that I, you know, done all kinds of work before then. But it really felt like with that daily vlog that I found success in a way that I'd,

never touched on before. Yeah. And a lot of that is because of the way that YouTube quantifies it. Like I could literally see my audience going like that. I could see subscribers. I could see like the

every month you get paid out like that number going up. So it was all of these tangible metrics that was like... Gameified. Yes. Holy shit success. And it was,

I was so excited by that. And then I also genuinely believed in what I was making. Yeah. When I finished my edit I'd be like, this is a really great video. I'm really excited. Genuinely excited about this video.

So win win. You love it? They love it. Every day. Yeah. And that's something that is just like, I still love the videos that I make, but like when I try to make that video, like an example is I get offers all the time, like go to interesting places and do interesting things and I just make videos about it.

And holy shit is that hard for me. It's so hard. Like I, my wife and I went to the Dominican Republic and I was like, I'll just like make a vlog about it because it's so cool here. And like I couldn't do it. Like I just couldn't. It was like I wanted to do it. and I could not find it in myself. I wonder if your piece is different now.

Like, if you were at peace in a different way than you were then. It could be it. Like, I don't know. I'm just kind of, like, I'm projecting kind of how I feel. Like, I feel like my motivations for things when I was 18 is very different than what it is now. Yeah. So, like, I'm curious, like, if I asked your therapist when you were, you know, starting, like, daily vlogging, hey, why is Casey going to vlog for 800 days?

What do you think they would say? You know, I'm, like, in a professional capacity, I sort of found a purpose, a unique opportunity. Purpose might be overstating it, but opportunity. Like I saw in a, what is it? Luck is where preparation meets opportunity. Like those 15 years prior were my preparation. And then YouTube was still sort of like nobody quite knew what it was for in 2015.

Like I found my opportunity. And those things were just combustible. And on the other end of that was luck. And that's why I found that enthusiasm. And that spark is completely dead for me. Yeah, that makes sense. Do you think the source of the motivation matters for the art or for the product? Yeah.

Like, but not so much like financially, but like good versus like bad. Like if the, like there's obviously a lot of artists that like struggle with insecurity, myself included. I wouldn't even really call myself an artist just an insecure person. But like dealing with that feeling, like I find that a lot of times when I'm doing stuff, it is to overcome an insecurity. It's like to prove to the they, the nebulous they that I'm someone that matters. in the world or to prove to my family something or to prove to exert my existence onto the universe

and I get glimpses now that I've gotten older where my motivation is more pure. It's to express myself. It's to sort of like connect and commiserate with people. And I wonder if you have ever felt or find even just through observation the source and the motivation for why you create to change the outcome of the product. Yeah. It, it, it's changed a lot for me, but like, you know, you said like being at peace before, like I'm at a certain level of peace right now, which is just like, like I'm not, I've achieved a level of financial security. I could definitely have to work.

I can't not work again without having my whole, you know, like life collapse. But I have a level of financial security now that I've never experienced before. And that I don't know that anyone I've ever known has experienced. I mean, now I've, you know, I've rich friends and stuff, but like growing up in a lower middle class town. like the idea that like you could just not work for a couple years and like you have enough money in your bank account that would keep you alive for those couple years like that is an idea that it's crazy it's crazy and i've never sure shit never had that and i have like a version of that now so i have like a kind of like a financial discretion now where i can say no to money jobs i usually don't because i still kids school so damn expensive but like i i i have that like that that kind of being at peace so when it comes to the motivation, yeah, it definitely feels like it's something much more pure, but it also feels like something much more elusive. Like, you know, like I made a movie about running a marathon. It really is a movie about perseverance, but like once I finish that marathon and achieve my goal, which took 17 years for me to do, I was so excited in that moment because I was like I get to tell this story.

Like that motivation is so elusive. Like that sense of like, I cannot wait to put this to paper. And for what it's worth, like, I wasn't going to make a Vision Pro movie. And the thing came in the mail and, like, sat in my office for a couple of hours and I was playing with it. And then I took it off and I was like, I watched every review of it. How come nobody's taking this thing outside? Crazy, right? That was the first thing I thought when I started video.

I was like, oh, he's living with it. Right. Which is what Apple wants you to do. And nobody had done it. And I was like, I watched all these great videos, you know, because I love all those tech reviewers, one of my favorite genres. Marquez Brownlee is like my favorite YouTuber. And I was like, why didn't anybody take this thing outside? And then I was like, oh shit.

And I called my buddy. I was like, Jordan, the sun goes down in two hours. Let's make this video right now. And we just shot the video. Like that kind of motivation is really fun. Yeah. But it's hard to prescribe. And I talked about it in the early episodes of my daily vlog,

but my ability, our ability, any creative person's ability to talk themselves out of making something is like one of their greatest strengths. There's always a reason not to do a podcast. There's always a reason not to build a tent. There's always a reason not to build a tent. always a reason not to do something. And one of my

favorite aspects of having a daily show and the reason why I couldn't take any days off even though my wife never understood this and she was right not to understand this is because I the pressure of having to upload every day no matter what was a

motivation that I'd never had and I fucking loved. Don't have an idea today? Fuck you. Make me a video. Like not doing any interest and go fuck yourself. Like figure it out. Like, where you're not traveling, you're not doing this, like you're doing the same thing you did yesterday. Like, too fucking bad. Make a video.

And I was the one holding the gun that was pointed at my own head. Like, there was no external, but like that self-imposed rule was wonderful. I loved it. Yeah. Like, I run every day, seven days a week. I don't take days off. And there's a parallel with that and being sober. I'm not sober, but, you know, like my brother Van now has been sober.

for I think over a decade. It's unbelievable, like the success that he's had. And I'm very close to a lot of people that are in the program. And they've explained to me like this beautiful idea about drinking and not drinking. And it's like when you decide that you're sober and you're not going to drink anymore, then you don't have to make a decision every day. You don't have to decide every day, am I going to drink or am I not going to drink? Me with sugar.

Every day I wake up. This is a true story. Right before I came here, I went into my office. and there was that fucking box of cookies with one left. I ate every cookie but one. And last night, like this morning when I was like having fucking diarrhea under the Brooklyn Bridge and a porta potty during my rungs, I ate so much sugar last night, I was like, I'm not, like I'm done.

Like I cannot eat any more sugar for a while. And I go into my office and there was that one cookie there. And I was like, if I eat this, then like I'm making a decision for the rest of the day. Lunch is going to roll around and just going to be like, should I get that little back at him and have? I already had some. So, like, not only did I throw it out, I sprayed WD-40 on it. Because we talked about drugs and addiction.

I will go into the garbage and pull out that cookie. I fucking love cookies, man. But, like, with running, I run every day. So it's not, like, raining yesterday, doesn't even occur. Raining this morning, just go. Put my phone in a plucked bag. It doesn't matter. Snow, doesn't matter.

Sleep, hot, nothing matters. We run every day. It's not a decision. and when it comes to making a video now, I make that decision every day. And I can always find a reason for no. I have to help my wife write this letter. I promise I'd do this thing for my friend.

I want to come record a podcast today. I'm leaving town next week to go to a speaking engagement, getting this trip for my birthday. All these great reasons. I have to call my brother. I have to talk to this friend. My buddy upstairs needs help with something. All these great reasons not to make a video.

But when I was doing it every day, it didn't matter. Fuck you make a video. It became your run. And I loved that. I loved that. So I went down the strokes. You asked me about motivations. And it's interesting because being like, well, I'm at peace now and I don't need to is true, but it's also bullshit.

It's also like a very warm blanket of excuse, excuse blanket to like snuggle under and be like, yeah, but I'm at peace now. So I don't need to. I struggle with this. I don't know if it's bullshit. I might just be like, we might just be better men. I don't, I genuinely go back and forth. I look at the last dance of Michael Jordan, I go, I feel like his motivation isn't really that pure. I feel like he's wanting to prove people wrong.

He's wanting, like he's like making up arguments in his head. Like it seems like an energetically toxic source, but the outcome is that he's the greatest ever. And the, like the toy between greatness and peace almost seem like they're at odds with each other. and that gives me dread, because I would like to do both. Yeah, this is like, I mean, this is existentialism 101, but it's like everyone who's ever done anything great, every song that played before we started recording this podcast, the man who's responsible for building this device,

the person that invented the handgun, everything that's great in this world, everything that's great, is because behind that there was a person who was fucking possessed. Trying to bang chicks. Yes. Yes. Or just like, you know, a person that's completely obsessed with whatever their craft might be,

whether it's engineering and designing an airplane or it's playing a game of basketball. Because they're obsessed, that's why they did their, whatever greatness was their contribution to this world. But on the other side, like, you're going to be dead. So it's like, who are you doing it for? You asked about legacy before. It sort of comes back to that. Like, the people I understand in this world are people like Jeff Bezos. Guy made it to, like, 50, or however old he is, he's got a gazillion dollars.

He's like, fuck it. And he goes and finds some, like, hot chick with big boobs and, like, a 600-foot yacht. And he's like, fuck you, I'm done. This is what I want to do. That makes sense to me. Yeah. I get it. What doesn't make sense to me is, like, Elon Musk.

He's got 50 companies he's running. He buys Twitter. He, like, lives in a mobile home or wherever. He doesn't have a place to live. Doesn't give his shit. It's just go, go, go, go, go, go, go, nonstop. Steve Jobs. He was, like, working, doing iPhone demonstrations,

like, a week before he died. Yeah. Like, at what point in your life, like, for me, the minute I, and I remember, like, it was a very clear moment in my life where, like, I didn't have to worry about paying for food because I knew I had enough money to cover food and I knew rent was covered.

Like once I achieved that point, like, 95% of my financial motivations in life went away. Yeah. Before that, I was like, I'm going to be a billionaire. I will not stop until I'm a billionaire. Really? You thought that at one point. Completely. Because being broke is the most, I made a video about this, but like being broke when you were broke, and I spent a lot of my life broke.

Like when my first kid was born, we got free diapers, free milk from the state, got welfare checks. And even so, it was like, I remember, like, driving my car and never going over the speed limit because, one speeding ticket would have thrown off my finances to such a degree I wouldn't have been all to recover from it. Like that close. $25, $50 a week to spend on groceries, $20 a week to spend on gas. That was like how tight the budget was with a baby. Like truly, truly being broke.

I remember like my kid went to school in Connecticut and I would like go there three days a week to be with him and then he was with his mom the other four days and I'd be in the city of those four days after I moved to New York City and she and I broke up. And like there were some times where I couldn't afford the trip. train ticket. So it was either like the train ticket or I could pay my like child support. So I was like I didn't get to see my kid. Yeah. I like sit crying like as like lonely. Like that's how it's fine. When you don't have money it is all you think about. Like I remember like stealing food. I remember like famously like house sitting for this model that I met because

she was going to work in London and like she didn't come back. She extended her trip by two weeks and we ran out of cat food. And it was like the cat's, like the cat's, like the cat's, eat or I eat. And like those cats, she came back, those cats were fucking skinny. They were skinny. They were models. They went from having two cans of cat food each per day to both cats sharing one can a day. Because it's all I can afford. Like being broke is a defining, like there's a point in your life where you never mature from.

You never grow past it. It's like a state of a rest of development. It's a trauma. That is who you are. It's trauma. And I will never, ever grow past that. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because we got to talk about your amazing

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I'm good. You didn't want to be a billion. Yeah, when I was that broke, all. All I thought about, could fantasize about was being a zillionaire. Like not like having enough money to pay rent. That wasn't the goal. The goal then was to be like the guys you saw on TV. The goal then was to have 50 cars.

The goal then was to have a private jet and to have all these things. Because you're like, money is such a pain point for me in every aspect of my life. Got to get to Brooklyn to meet a friend. It's like, shit, how am I going to get there? Like, shit. Like I don't have a, my bike got stolen. Like, everything was under, like, a pair of glasses in the whole world, everything is through that lens, that lens is money when you're broke.

And everyone who's broke that's listening to this knows exactly what I'm talking about. And so when I was there, yeah, all I fantasized about was being ungodly rich, like, like, lot of winning rich. And then the minute that, like, screw started to untitened, like, I remember, like, when I would direct TV commercials, like, I'd get paid $10,000. It was, like, a day rate, which is a bullshit way to do. define it so it would take a month. So I'd get paid for a $10,000 for a month worth of work. And then typically it's my brother and me, so we'd split it. We'd get $5,000 for a month

worth of work. And we'd get like three of those a year. So it wasn't a lot. But like when that check would clear, and you'd be like a fucking $5,000. For this person in the world. Yeah, completely. Yeah. You just felt like a different person. So when I got to a place where, yeah, like I had a savings account, I mean, like, I remember like every month sending it was $500 a month and then sending a thousand bucks a month off to the savings account that I wouldn't touch. And like once I started to feel like Yeah rent's covered and like you know I can get whatever I want for lunch

I'm not I can't do Balthazar But I can get anything but that for lunch You know like whatever I want from the Borenega Any sandwich It was just like immediately it's like I don't I don't need to be a billion I don't give a shit about all those dreams just just Disappeared

I wonder how many great artists have been neutered by financial excess Early in their careers We must have been robbed from so many greats Yeah dude look at MC Hammer Yeah, I mean literally I mean he had a hit and then made so much money and then kind of blew it I think it was like 50 I read an article about it like a BuzzFeed listicle about all the things he spent his money on but yeah it's a tale as old as time and I think it's because like so many artists

you know like trauma is a great source for creative inspiration so a lot of artists a lot of really talented people come from a place of struggle so when you get money like it's the temptation to run wild is is irresistible. Yeah, but then it affects the art, and it's like, are you morally obligated to preserve your art by keeping yourself in a state of trauma? Like, I see a lot of, like, overweight comedians

that are like, yeah, man, I'm trying to lose weight, but, like, you know, that my closing joke kind of like, I don't, and, like, I literally think it becomes, like, a mental roadblock for that. Or, like, I hear so many comics, like, talk about, like, bad things about their life,

and I think that they have a subconscious resistance to fixing it, because it is a source of so much of their art. And the art is a thing that's making them happy from all the trauma that they're feeling. So they are in like this Kafka trap where like if I fix this thing, then it'll hurt this thing and then I'll ultimately be sadder than I actually was. You know what I mean? Like it's an insidious mind game, but my gut is that ultimately healing yourself and then still trying to stay integral and like pure to the art is the best solution. But that's also the hardest one.

The hardest. Yeah. I think like we were, you asked me what's bothering me. I talked about Dr. Wacht Valley's like crises in the world. And then I, like my favorite thing is to, I do books on tape when I run. Not always, really hard to find the right book. It has to be, because I read physical books. I'm a really slow reader. I have to write, read with the pen. It's the only way I can.

And so for a book on tape to work, it has to be like a movie. I have to listen to it as if it's a movie. Fiction? I can't do fiction. Oh, it's all nonfiction? Only nonfiction. Oh, really? Only, only.

Yeah. Like what? What are the things? So like the book that I'm reading, the audio book that I'm reading or listening to right now, which is so, it's exactly the right recipe where like I run more miles because of it is this fantastic book about the Cuban Missile Crisis. And it's a minute by minute book in chronological order of like the 11 days of the Cuban Missile Crisis when like the world was on the brink of total nuclear war, like right on the edge.

What's it called? It's so good. I was like, when I showed up here and I had my headphones on, that's what I was listening to because I, like, didn't finish my chapter this morning. It's called One Minute to Midnight. Oh, wow. Great title. That's perfect.

And then, like, that book that Joe Rogan talks about all the time, chaos about the Manson murders. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that book, I, like, would get back to my house and be like, fuck it, and I just go run another five miles. I need to finish the chapter. Have you listened to Endurance by the story of Ernest Shackleton? Uh-uh. Dude.

Okay, I'll get it next. It's one of those exact books. It's, yeah, exactly. I don't mean, I don't want to pile you up. No, but endurance is amazing because it's literally the greatest exploring story of all time. I remember, it was the thing when I would be in the gym, I would listen to it, or I would read it. And before I would read it, or before I'd go to the gym, I'd read it, and I would be in the gym and I'd be like, I'm not a pussy. Right, like, I don't can run through a brick wall right now.

These were iron men and wooden boats is like the slogan. It's like that these men were so tough. And they're in the Arctic swimming, literally like in boats getting filled up with Arctic water in the middle of winter. and they would rather be in the water in the boats because the water was actually warmer than the air. Like, think about the amount of suffering. And it was months and months and months. And I'm over here being like,

I don't want to clean up. I don't want to clean the house. And it's books like that and inspiration like that where I go, fuck it. So you're making my point exactly. Like, the reason why I read a book like that, listen to a book like that or read a book like that is it reminds you like how fucking silly

your problems are. and like the reason why like is I try not to look away from all like the tumult happening in the world no matter how hard it is to look at is to remind you how good you've got it and remind you how fucking insignificant your problems are for me that's like that is a path to happiness because like we're all fucking narcissists and I think like the hardest hard you know is the hardest thing you've ever experienced is the hardest thing you know and it's like this idea that everything's relative, I think it's fucking bullshit. It's not.

It's not. Everything relative isn't like, well, like, no, like a young woman living in Darfur, like, she only knows a life of hardship. But, like, you know, I'm from the Upper East Side and my hardship is different. But it doesn't mean that what I'm dealing with is harder for me than it is to deal with. And it's like, no, it's not relative. It's fucking not, okay? Like, your Upper East Side problems is objectively better.

Like, you ran out of Vivance a week ago and you don't know what to do. Like, fuck. you. Like, do you know what it's going on in South Sudan right now? Do you know what it means to be a woman in South Sudan right now? It's not relative. It's not. And I think it's so easy to forget that. And the reason why, like, I look at it. I won't look away is because then, like, when the book closes or the news channel gets turned off or, like, the newspaper gets pushed aside, I come back and look at my life and it's like, I was like fighting my wife this morning because, like, you know, like somebody crashed into her car and the insurance company now is only going to pay for, like, to get a different.

And it's like, I don't think we should spend money in a car, but maybe we should get a bigger car and we have a discreet. And it's like, I will not let that bother me. Like, that cannot bother me. Yeah. I don't know if any day of stress I've ever dealt with is anything close to what, like, Winston Churchill dealt with. On his best day. Yeah. Neville Chamberlain.

Like, what did, what was that like? Fucking Neville Chamberlain. But, like, the fact that, fucking coward. The fact that, like, so many people on this planet would kill. for your worst day. They would kill for your worst day. Yeah. And then if you look at the scope

of human history, would you rather be like a middle class person in America today? It's better to live now. That book, there's a great book, The Rational Optimist. It just talks about how far we've come. And it's like, you get sick,

you get hurt, we have hospitals here. Yeah. No, we don't have health care. You're going to be paying for the rest of it. You still get. We know what germs are. That's pretty good, right?

Germ theory is pretty sick. Yeah. No, so it's like the more you can appreciate how good you've got it, the easier it is to be happy and satisfied with life. And I think we, especially like we privileged Americans, it's so easy to lose perspective. And it's like, no, once you realize that,

like what I used to say back in the day is like, what's going to happen if I fail? I'm going to be broke and have to live in a trailer park on welfare. I did that. It wasn't that bad. Like that's failure. That's the bottom here in America. It's being so broke.

You have to take money from the state. And you have to live in a shitty Section 8 housing. That's the bottom here in America. The bottom here in America isn't being in America. fucking Darfur, having your arms chopped off or your house blown up or being murdered or whatever awful shit that they're facing, other people are facing around the world. We've got it pretty fucking good. And the sooner you can appreciate that, the sooner you'll feel good about your life and like be thankful for what we have. That's why I like how much you talk about your

children, just children in general. I don't know. I personally kind of feel like it's hard to find like outspoken entrepreneurs that had children young. And I think that it's really cool the what you talk about kids because I don't have kids yet, but in my experience from my siblings, kids decentralize you and they make you stop navel-gazing and you're now no longer able to be the same narcissist that we all naturally want to be. And that I think brings an immense sense of joy. Like being able to take you out of the main character role of your life and be like, okay, my focus is on something else. I think Jordan Peterson said that, that the greatest way to be unhappy is it constantly thinking about yourself all day. And I think by reading about great men,

great people in history, great men and women, having kids, decentralizing yourself and putting, giving perspective to your struggles, I mean, that will I think make you 90% happier? Yeah, I mean, I've, I don't know the other perspective. I've never not been a father. I've been a kid and then I've been a parent. Yeah. I've never been anything else but those. But yeah, there's like a, somebody interviewed Tucker Carlson recently.

Lex? Maybe. but like the clip is shown up like in my Instagram Reels feed like twice and I don't know what he asks Tucker Carlson but Tucker Carlson is like have kids have them immediately and have a bunch of them I don't know why what the fuck he's talking about why he says that and like I say it very gently but like I so believe in that yeah it's just tough because I all both sides the issue which is like

I think especially for women there are reasons not to have children or not to rush to have children are completely legitimate and I think the burden on women on mothers is 100x what it is on fathers and anybody who says otherwise is full of shit. So I understand and I think the reasons to postpone having kids or the reason to have you.

They're all legitimate and I would never ever push back against any of them. But for me and my lived experience it's like having kids is the greatest thing ever like what an unbelievable joy and like what in the most raw human animalistic thing what's our fucking purpose here, if not to procreate. And then on top of that, like, the minute you have a child is like, there's your purpose.

And it's like, then you start to think like, what was my purpose yesterday? It's like me, my fucking ego, my narcissism. And it's like, no, like, having kids is the greatest thing ever, is the most wonderful thing ever. And if you view it that way at all, then like, yeah, have kids immediately. If you don't see it that way, then go your own path. and I don't know that path. It's like veganism. Yeah.

Vegans are so fucking passionate about being vegan and they think everybody should be a vegan. I get it, bro. Yeah, that's how I am about kids. Yeah. I don't understand veganism. I'm not if I'm saying this to someone who doesn't want to have kids.

I don't see it that. And I get it. Yeah, make your own way. That's fun. Make your own way. Yeah. But for me and what I've lived and what I've done, like I...

I mean, I'm 43. And like my wife is, I have to get a vasectomy. Wait, what do you mean? Otherwise she won't have sex with me anymore because she can't have any more kids She's too old And we don't want to have more kids

We've got two wonderful kids Like we've been where as lucky as can be And there's no point in the risk At our ages to have kids It's a very risky, scary thing We've both decided like we're good I have three kids Very lucky

So I need to have a vasectomy And that's a deal She's like I will There's other ways case There's like there's other ways There's no She's like I will give birth twice

but you have to get a vasectomy and I'm like that's a very fair deal okay I have like canceled my appointment for like 18 months now I don't want to get into your business but like is it possible to still

like at your guys' ages like you could still have a kid yeah if I make strong enough eye contact with you right now don't do it don't do it don't do it I will leave this tent you will be pregnant that's what you got the glasses on

um no like Candace is as fertile as a fucking and, you know, she will get pregnant. Just just like God fucking would that for something, but no, she absolutely will get pregnant. Yeah. And I think for like a long time to come. But I think like part of the reason for me not wanting to go get snipped

is like definitely my irrational fear of like letting somebody with a knife anywhere near my sensitive bits. I feel the same way that like I don't think it's rooted in anything logical. But in my brain I'm like, it is the life force of me. Yeah. Like, why? By the way, don't ever say that to a woman who's given birth. No, of course not.

Because she's going to be like, do you know what I had to go to? You know her the asshole? You're like, she had to grow human inside of her and then have that human, leave her physical human body. Oh, no. What they did is way greater of a sacrifice. It just destroys everything from like the fucking eyebrows down for like a year and a half. And just parts getting, having to get put up. And all we have to go is like an outpatient thing.

They're like, it's like a 20 minute procedure. Yeah. Like they're like, don't go on a trampoline for at least 24 hours. I love trampolines. I love trampolines. But it's so irrational. But I also, like, there's something deep in me that's like, but it means I don't have any more baby.

I don't get to have any more babies. What is that in us? Is that some, like, caveman shit? I think if I could have a baby, I think if I would have like 10 kids. No question. I'd have like 15 years. That's my parents are.

They had seven. Really? My mom's one of eight. Yeah, it's kind of awesome. But I don't think my mom's parents wanted any kids because they all. I have fucked up fucking family. My God.

Yeah, but that's what you did back then. It's like, all right, now we just have children. Just don't stop. Yeah, it's sort of automatic. I would have kids because I love kids. My baby daughter's five now. She's like, you can like converse it. She's like smart.

It's like reads. And it's so heartbreaking. It's so sad. It destroys me. No more babies. No. And it like, it really truly breaks my heart. And I'm already like, I talk to my wife and it's like,

what are we going to do when these kids move out? And she's like, Casey, she's five. She can walk around. Yeah, it's like, it's my scariest thing. Like, what, I've only ever known being a dad. And I don't know. And I have a 26-year-old. You stop being a dad.

It's a different fucking weird thing. Kind of like a mentor, friend kind of situation. You have a role, but it's much more of a title than it is a role. Yeah. You know, I talk to my dad once a week. But like my baby daughter, like, dress her this morning, brush her teeth. And, you know. Yeah, it is.

I've seen it with a lot of my siblings where there is an inflection point where it's like, they're babies now, but then they're going to turn 13, and then I'm going to be sort of a parent to a teen, and even that will be different. So different. And then they'll drive, and then I'll kind of be a different thing again, and then they'll turn 18 and it'll be a different thing again. But, like, watching them grow up from babies, and then also from, like, a selfish perspective,

like, you get to see what, like, how parenting manifests and, like, learn things. Like, I go so out of my way, like, to the point of obsequiousness, but like in the morning I always wake them up. And I am like fucking shooting rainbows from my eyeballs because I just think the happier their wakeups can be in the morning that like it'll set their day off in the right direction. So I am just like fucking singing and dancing. I've also been up for three hours and run like 10 miles before.

I wake them up at 7.30. But I'm like singing and dancing into their bedrooms. I always wake them up with like their favorite treats in bed. Like I have a whole morning routine so they can have the happiest morning possible. Yeah. Because, and like, that's, like, there ain't no 16-year-old is going to want, like, me singing and dancing in there. But they will appreciate it, though.

I want to have kids now, I'll be honest. Like, I want to, and people kind of call me crazy for it. No, you're fucking, you should have a thousand kids now. You should have kids immediately. You should have kids today. I'm slightly concerned about raising them in New York. Nope, greatest place in the world to raise kids. Really?

The greatest place in the world to raise kids. There's a caveat, which is that you have to have a pretty heavy caveat, which is that you have to have money. You don't have to be rich. but I couldn't imagine I raised my son we were mostly in Connecticut where he was in school

but having him in New York when I had nothing was very very hard but you know I have a friend who makes a decent living and lives in an apartment it's tough

because their apartment's not big and their kids are in public school and public schools in New York City are great and it deals with burdens and things like that but it's just like I mean my daughter gets on the subway and she's like sitting next to

all kinds of different people from all over the world. She's interacting with all kinds of different people, socionomic, racially. Like, people from all walks of life she encounters every single day. Think about what that does for her, like, humanity. Like, my daughter's school, her Hebrew school, her ballet school, her gymnastics school, her acting school, her favorite restaurant, her favorite grocery store,

her favorite, like playground, the coffee shop, all of those things are within like a five-year-old, a scooter away from where we live. Think about what that does. Yeah, a lot of things come online. Yeah. Think about the amount of people she interacts with in any one of those directions. Like, it's, it's, my daughter's learning about in school, like how the Brooklyn Bridge was built. And then when they finished like that lesson, they all got to do a field trip to go up for the Brooklyn Bridge. Like, no, I think that like, I think it's an absolutely magical place to raise children. Is there a downside? Yeah, there's a fucking downside. If you've ever been,

outside in New York City before is fucking chaos That's my thing Like I'm not really worried about When they're like little babies Like with me But then they're gonna turn 12, 13 And be like hey let me run to the thing

Like I don't know I don't know I do know that like The amount of people That I went to high school with And the sort of like cow farming fucked up

town in southeastern Connecticut Where there was like a sub base And when like the president would go from being Republican to Democrat There'd be defense spending cuts All my friend's parents Would lose their jobs

Like the amount of people I know that died of fucking fenced all overdoses and got addicted to opioids and car crashes and DWIs and all of that shit and for my own experience in life I think boredom is the most dangerous thing for young people without question boredom is the most dangerous thing and New York's got 99 problems

but lack of stimulation is not one of them and it was like we tried to live in L.A. for like a minute disaster. And I remember, like, the thing that freaked me out the most was the young girls that would dress sexy. And when I say young,

I mean, like, very young. Yeah. You know, like 12, 13, belly shirts. And it's just like, Kennis and I being like, what is this? Like, why is that okay?

That is so inappropriate. And we come back to New York and we're like walking around and it was like a summer night and we're trying to decide, like, how and when we're going to move back. And we see like a gaggle of unsupervised teenagers

and like Battery Park City. And they're all, dress like grunge is how kids dress these days, like in the 90s. Like, Kurt Cobain is how they're dressed like your dress right now. Just like young lesbians. And they're these kids. Yeah, they're these kids and they're like sitting in a group and like black kids, white kids like all walks to life.

And they're like smoking pot. And we like walk by them. Kianis and I look at each other. We're like, I'm completely okay with that. Yeah, take that every day. Like if that is what sneaking out and being bad is, I am so okay with that. Yeah. And not to generalize.

Like a bit, I know there's like a lot. lots of badness that occurs here as it does everywhere else. But it's like there's something about the stimulation in New York City that subverts that kind of boredom and that it is always that boredom. Yeah. I was such a bad kid.

Like drugs, fighting, because there's nothing to do? Crime. There's nothing to do. It all stem from being just bored out of my mind. Is it difficult raising kids away from your parents? I mean, my parents were, you know, my parents were, they get divorced

when I was like, I don't know, 13 or something like that, 14. So like I, my parents mean well, but they're not like, can you guys watch the kids kind of parents at all ever. I think my dad has watched one of my children once when Candace and I went out to dinner. A great guy, I love my dad to death. But like that's, you know, we have a different relationship. My wife's parents have been, are the opposite.

They're amazing. Oh, that's awesome. They don't live here. And they fly here to watch the kids so we can go away. Like, they're great. But yeah, having that support system is huge, and we don't have that. That's interesting. Because my parents are in Florida, my wife's parents are in Florida.

And I look at that, I'm like, hmm. No income tax in Florida. Yeah, I mean. Yeah. Ship the kids down there, and then I live up here. That's perfect. Then everybody was. They could go to Disney World as much they want.

Yeah, exactly. Right. No, that's interesting. And my mom always says, like, kids bring it back to even the legacy thing. Kids are the only true legacy is what she says, which I don't know if it's, is good for my brain, because she's like, your jokes, Mark, like, no one's going to really

remember them. And your podcast is going to maybe probably get deleted in 10 years. And none of this that you're doing really matters. Right. Kids are your only legacy. And I don't know if that's her projecting, but it kind of rings true a little bit in my mind where I'm like, yeah, I kind of think on like existential sense, she might be

kind of right. I think it's, I think there's some truth to that. Yeah. I think there's some truth to that. It kind of scares me, though. Someone that wants to create great shit. I'm like, it should scare you. Just this little kid running around? No control of.

It's the greatest thing I ever do. No control. Like it's nature not nurture. We've raised both of our daughters exactly the same way. We love them the same. We feed them the same thing. They go to the same school.

And they're completely different people. One's an introvert. One is loud and loves to be a center of attention. The other one is just like, if you don't pay attention to her, she'll just like disappear for hours in a room. They're just wildly different people from the same exact environment.

same parents, same DNA, same house, same snacks, same treats. And how's your oldest son? Is it fun hanging with him? It's fun, it's weird, man. It's just weird. Like this weekend we're hanging out, and it's like, I look at him, and he's got like a beard now, he's got long hair, he's super handsome, but he's taller than me. I look at him, and I'm like, where's that kid? Like, where's that? There he is. Like where's that baby? And it's also hard because like, you know, he went away to New Zealand and Australia for 18 months.

And we chat on WhatsApp, but like when I was 26, I didn't, I was running around the world. Like, I didn't talk to my parents at all. Yeah. And just like having him be that far away, it's just very strange. I think the hardest part from a narcissistic perspective, like, look for me is not knowing what my role is. like what like do I parent like do I give advice you know like I love them to death like what do I do

it's weird hmm I think about this with my parents because my I think me and your oldest and are probably about the same age roughly and so I look at my parents crazy to think about 2070s probably 25 26 so I look at my parents I'm like should I take a more active role and including them in my life like should I reach out to them more? Should I give them a role in my life? Like, from your vantage point, being kind of in the role of my parents, like, what should I do? I don't. I have no fucking idea. I genuinely, like, I have no idea. That is such a hard question. Should I write them letters? Like, are they, I don't know. Owen writes me letters. Really? Yeah, like physical letters,

which is so cool. But, you know, I don't know. I really truly don't know. I think that there's like, do you know what a rum springa is? Oh, yeah, the homage to it. Yeah, and they disappear and go find themselves. I think that that's important. And there's, like, I've seen it drawn where it's like the, there's a diagram. It's like the closest you have with your parents. And it's like, as a baby, you're like together.

And then it's a gap and it gets big. And then you start to get closer. Because, like, my wife is closer to her parents now than she was 10 years ago or whatever. I think my relationship with my parents is fairly unique. but, you know, I don't know. I have no idea. If I ask myself, like, what more do I want from him? Like, I don't know.

I just want to see him be successful and happy and, like, find his place in this world. That's all I, like, it's the only thing I want to see. I'm not like I wish he was hanging around me more. I wish he was with me every day. Because I don't. Like, if I wanted that, I'd feel like that would be inhibiting him

from figuring out who he is. And, like, I selfishly would love him to hang out with me every day. Yeah. But I've much, like, as a, a parent, I'd much rather see him, you know, go find himself and, like, figure out what he wants to do in this world than have him hang out with me every day. So it's tough. It's very weird. That's good perspective, though. But I do think about that with my parents. Like, they're getting so much older. Like, they're 60-something now. And I even, I've talked about this before, but I

just heard a quote that, like, really kind of fuck my head up where it's like, I see my parents two, three times a year when I go home. And if I do that for the next 30 years that they're alive, I get like 60 to 90 more times that I see them. That's so heavy. Fuck. It's so heavy. And like, you know, my grandfather died when I was, I don't know, 12 or something. And I only knew this guy as like, you know, he was pretty, had like dimension and stuff towards the end.

So he was just kind of like, you know, because he kid. You're like, I don't want to see grandpa again. And when he was before that, when I was younger, he was like this grumpy, mean old dude. and after he died and I grew up I got really interested and curious and like sure enough he's like a golden glove boxer he was like UPenn for business school like he's a very smart guy

he wasn't able to go fight in World War II because he had this knee condition petitioned to try to go fight they wouldn't let him so he gave him some job here in the States where he could help the war effort and like learning about that and like all this fascinating shit about this interesting human

and I only knew him as like this old crumagin who then died. And I think about that because, like, no matter what, like, my parents will be that. You know what I mean? Like, my parents are 70. They're starting to turn that corner. Like, they will eventually, like, God willing, they'll live until they're 100.

But, like, at some point in time, they're just going to be that old guy. Yeah. You know? And right now, I still look at my parents as these kind of youthful people that they were when I was a kid. Yeah. Do you believe in afterlife? No.

Not at all. No. You die and that's it. Yeah. Back in the ground. Yeah. Back where you were before you were born. Yeah.

Do you wish there was something? Yeah. I think 100 years is totally fair. You know what I mean? Like that's a pretty good deal. That's pretty good. You know, like a tortoise. You see like a 200-year-old tortoise and they're like, fucking kill me.

You know what they don't want to climb around. Walking out on the street on the road. Just want me over, please. They want it to be over. If I see him on the road, I'll hit him just being like, I know he wants to go. And then like I look at like my little dog. She's a baby. She's one.

And she's like, I only have 10 more years. And it's like, that's not cool, man. Dogs should live until they're like 60. That is fucked up, right? It's fucked up. Yeah. They're so cool.

Why would God do that? Not cool. But I think getting 100 years is like pretty fair. And then as far as like God and stuff in like a very like tangible sense, maybe, maybe not? I don't know. I think the magic about being a Jew is that like you're Jewish whether you believe in God or not. Right. You know, it's like written in the Torah.

Like that is part of it. Because I don't know where I stand on that. I mean, like, one of those things that's like, I'm probably butchering this, but it's like every astronaut that made it to space believes in God where it comes, came back and believed in God more than it. Like there's some science connection,

like every major scientist. So like I love that. I think it's like, and this is maybe a bit of a lame cop-up, but I think it's like we humans think we're really smart. I think there's so much about the way our brains work and stuff that we just don't understand. Like, this is God that I think has manifested that I've seen. I've seen God.

And it's the 1996 Chicago Bulls. You watch professional athletes on that level. And you're like, how the fuck did Pippin know that Jordan was going to be right there? Like, how was he able to pass that ball? How did they have that connection? Like, you see them and it goes beyond athleticism. They're communicating without. speaking.

Like they're reading body. They're doing things that feel that seem inhuman. And they're acting on another wavelength. And I see shit like that. I see it in pro athletes. And it's just like they're tapping into something that is like beyond what we dumb humans have been able to recognize so far. Yeah.

So I think that, yeah, there's like, of course there's something bigger than us. And we call that thing God. And like, yes, I believe in that. I just like I don't think that we've done a good job defining it yet I completely

you know like one book says it's this and one book says it's that and then like some guys in Utah say it's something else and like Tom Cruise thinks it's like

all Ron Hubbard look to each his own but like I don't really know that any of those have nailed it for me as much as like you know

watching really good basketball players has like been like God that's fucking God like how How? From the free throw line.

Yes. Eyes closed. Unbelievable. Yeah. That doesn't make any sense. Yeah. I mean, musicians, like the Grateful Dead, like fish. They've built a whole career on being like, hey, we're going to communicate telepathically and jam.

We were talking about Rick Rubin. Rick Rubin's like, he's like the Beatles is how I know God exists. That's his line. Yeah. And like, yes, music is part of that. It sounds crazy, but once you really think about it. You totally. They're grabbing something out of the air.

And creating something amazing. It just means that like we as humans, we're. We're not, there's more to us than we have figured out so far. Yeah. You know? And maybe like Elon will figure it out before during our lifetimes. Then we'll be like, see, there it is. But it's that thing.

There's a thing. There is a source. There's got to be a thing. There's got to be a thing. That's how I feel. But then I ask people and they're like, nah, I mean, there's no afterlife. And I'm like, well, if there's a thing, there could be a place. I don't think there's an afterlife.

But if there's a thing, why can there be a place? I don't know. Just like, there's so much to organize. Think about how many people live and die. Like, we're like, right. Like that. The logistics? Yeah, the logistics are just too much.

You know what I mean? That's where you get hung up. Yeah. It's like, where's everybody going to be? Like, how you're going to feed them all. It's a hotel. Like, you're going to float around forever? Like, ever?

That's insane. What is it? Like an avatar, it's a big tree or something? Okay, maybe. That one kind of made sense. You know, like the memory tree or whatever the fuck it is. On the back of a turtle, maybe? That's fine.

You know, what is it in intergalactic? No, that's not the name. the movie. What's the Nolan movie? Interstellar. Interstellar. Or it's like a... That space between the beings and the... It might be yarn. It might be a Joanne Fabric.

You know, like that one was just like... I don't understand, man. That doesn't make sense. There's a great movie. Fuck, I'm not going to be able to say the name and remember the name, but it's like a 90s or 80s movie about a guy who dies and like when you go and die, you have to go in front of a court to figure out where you go. There's like this really nice window while you're like waiting to go to court. and they'll make you whatever food you want,

and it's just like a really nice place to be. And I'm like, if that's the afterlife, like how do you scale that? You know what I mean? Like there's like seven billion people on Earth or something. Like, it's going up. Everybody keeps dying. Like, where are you, all these souls?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it could be. Like where? Like what? Like how? It's ephemeral. It's out there in the cosmos. But like what? There's a whole space.

It's just like saying magic. You know what I mean? Like it just doesn't, you gotta give me like white light. What if I told you there's a hundred billion planets? Would you be like, oh, where are there? Sure, that doesn't make any sense either. I just can't organize that either.

Okay, so that's consistent. Starts at a molecule and zooms out that video from like the 70s and it shows the solar system. It's like, my brain can't compute that. How big is the universe ever expanding? What the fuck does that mean? And like, how are we supposed to care about like being nice to someone else if we live?

Do you know what I mean? Like this fucking podcast, matters? The world, like the universe is infinite and we're trying to make a podcast. Yeah. I can't. That's too much, man. Don't ask that of me. Yeah. That's why I don't smoke weed. Because genuinely, I swear to God, I smoke weed and I think about the planets and it really stressed me out and I get paranoid and I kind of have a panic attack. Weed was like my favorite thing. I wish I had a better. You know, like you have these friends.

I have these friends. High functional, high functional stoners. Oh, yeah. It's bizarre to me. People like, like, I look at like, I don't know him, but I'm a huge fan of Seth. Rogan. Yeah. And like, it seems like he's stoned all the time. And he's built that amazing company that sells like weed ephemera. And he writes a zillion movies. He's an actor.

He's like all these things. He's very present, very funny. Yeah, he's like not 300 pounds. He's like a healthy looking guy. He's arguing with you on Twitter. Arguing with me on Twitter. But like, I know a dozen people like him. I have another friend of mine who's an editor and a tremendous filmmaker.

And he smokes weed almost every day. How? I don't know. And like, when I smoke weed, I have like that creative inspiration that they have for like 10 minutes and then I turn into this like really like insecure meek weirdo who's like

everybody's talking about me right now and I need to go with some candy and then like I eat everything I'll be at McDonald's if you guys need if you guys know where the nearest KFC is and then I'm sick and I got to go home before anybody realizes how much fried chicken I just ate like that's what smoking

weed is for me. The exact same experience. The exact same experience. I just can't do it anymore it's too bad I never even really had that good time I had a good time Maybe you're right Maybe it was too high to remember If I had a good time or not

I've told the story before But I went time smoked with Dwight Howard At Burning Man He gave me a joint I was like fuck yeah I grew up in Orlando This guy's literally Superman Sure

Hit the joint immediately I'm like Dwight Howard hates me Right I'm so stupid He doesn't even think I'm an idiot Like he literally was like

Hey man you want this I was like yes And then the rest of the day My next four hours It was like Superman thinks I'm an idiot I remember being Being on the roof

Of some building once in my older brother van. We were really young. And it was like mixed company. So it was like a bunch of girls and stuff, new people. And everybody was smoking pot. And he would always be like, I can't really smoke weeks. It makes me too insecure. But in that moment, it was the kind of thing.

And everybody was smoking. We all smoked weed. And he told a joke, and everybody started laughing at his joke. And then I saw him do something uncharacteristic, which is like kind of like looked away and wiped his nose. And I saw this moment of insecurity. Because he was like, was that really funny. And he looks up at me.

and it was the insecure like stone and had looked up at me and I just went like this shook my head and I shook my head and I went not cool man not cool

and like that's like one of the funniest moments I've done that exact same thing I've seen people get too high and I go dude I don't know if you're gonna make it through this right?

Right this is not gonna end well let's get you some place safe yeah a lot of people are really mad at you right now like what? Like yeah my parents are hippies they always smoked pop

but like I can't growing up like they would smoke? My mom would, yeah. My mom would like let us put our lips on the, she would get like flavored rolling papers. No way. Yeah. My dad, not so much. Did you know what it was when we were young? Or did you go to a concert and you were like, oh, it smells like mom's house? Somewhere in between. She had like a custom-made ashtray that she put in it. My mom is a colorful person. What about psychedelics? Did you do mushrooms or anything? I mean, like, I get it. I've done mushrooms like a couple times.

And like, I did it once, like, laughed so much and it was great. And then I did it more recently, like, a year or two ago and did not enjoy it at all. A very, very bad experience. Oh, really? Can you share what happened? It was like a girlfriend's birthday party. And she had, like, chocolates. And I thought they were, like, weed chocolates and they were mushroom chocolates.

And it wasn't made clear to me exactly how they work, what was going to happen. And it was just like, and we were having dinner at, like, La Bernardine, like, the greatest restaurant in the world. I don't get an opportunity to eat at a place like that. And I just, it wasn't anybody's fault but my own because everybody had a lot of fun. Like Candace had a little bit and was just like laughing and having a great time. I think I ate too much,

just had a bad reaction to it. But like, one, I didn't eat any of the amazing food they served. And then two, I just remember like standing outside being like how much longer until this is over, how much longer until this is over. It didn't work for me. Like low-key panicking. Yeah, like proper.

And what are you thinking about? Like, while you're at dinner. I just wanted to be over. Rumination. about your life. It was like a birthday party and they were having fun there's like a guy there

who was like taking pictures and I remember like being like wanting to like Tony Supran or the guy and be like don't you fucking take my picture

and be like why am I thinking like that I shouldn't be thinking I need to go back outside like that was like my inner monologue the worst and then like what's the

maybe it's ayahuasca is there another thing that you take with a shaman or is that just always Iowa like peyote Gambo is like an African frog drug I went to

Afghanistan in 2010 is a journalist who was embedded with these special forces guys. Some of the most amazing humans I've ever met. I stayed very close in touch with them. Texas, we were one of them yesterday. I'm going to go see them in Alaska in two weeks. And they've all done this retreat a couple of times, and it's a very intensive ayahuasca, I think it's ayahuasca retreat, in like one of those countries, Peru or some Central America

and South American country, very formal, like regulated, like organized. It's like a real thing. And I was going to go with them right up till the end. And the thing that I was excited about is the way it was described to me. It's like it's a great way of confronting and overcoming much of your ego and on the other side of it, you'll operate less with ego. And I'm very interested in it. And like three weeks before I like went out, didn't go.

Cancel the trip. They all went. I just was like I can't go. And what was it? I think one, like going to the doctor. just scared of drugs in general. Like, the same reason why, like, I can't...

Like, my buddy, what are the things called that? Zin? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cins are awesome. Oh, my God. Like, my buddy is, like, have one, and I'm like, I'm so scared. Like, if I smoke one cigarette, I have one Zin. I'm just like, I don't want to know how it's going to make me feel. What if I really like it? And then I'm back on that train. The reason why I don't really... I don't drink anymore.

I just become really wimpy in my old age. And I think about... ayahuasca and it's just like, I don't know, I over-intellectualizing, get sort of scared and nervous about it. I think, like, at its core, I really love being sober. And I'm not a sober, like, so,

straight-edge person. At all, no. Like, I don't think I drank, I haven't had a drink yet in 2024. Wow. I'm not against drinking. It's just like... It's not in your routine.

Yeah. It's not in who you are. The things that get me so fired up are waking up the crackadon and going to run a million miles, like racing home from work every day at like 530 or 6 to hang out with my babies. Like the amount of happiness and like bliss and like euphoria,

euphoria, I feel like my whole life been working to get to like where I am right now and I'd love every fucking second of it. Like trying to find a place for drugs and that I just, I struggle with. It's probably like caffeine is my favorite right now. Yeah. But psychedelics, like I respect it. And I, you know, I, I,

I have nothing against that. Like I have a lot against, how do you categorize drugs that are like chemicals, like cocaine and anything comes in pill form? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So things maybe that are like synthetic, so to speak. Yeah, like all that shit scares the hell out of me. I think I was like living in Venice when like there was like a party in Venice

and like a bunch of people thought they were doing cocaine. Like three people died because it was fenced and all. Like that shit I'm totally against. Like don't be a fucking idiot. Yeah. It's not the 80s. Do perks or like lean or shit like that. Stay away from all.

All that shit. Yeah. But when it comes to, like, weed or psychedelics or, like, anything, I'm like, so pro. Like, legalizing weed, I think, is wonderful for this city. Like, great. Now, there's not a reason for cops to harass, like, every kid that they see standing on a street corner. Great.

Legalized weed. And for psychedelics, I know a number of people have real trauma in their past. Most of them, former soldiers, you know, like, like, PTSD and shit. Yeah, or just, they're just dealing with whatever they're dealing with. then they found so much more success with those types of drugs than they have with pharmaceuticals. And I support all that shit. I love that. But for me in my life, I just haven't figured out where any of that fits in.

Yeah. Do you feel like you're experiencing, like, as you are getting older, like fragility? Are you like, my life is structured in a way that having late nights and getting shit-faced, the burden is too great for where I am. Or like doing a drug and being like, oh, this is like fucking up my psyche. I'm too set and I'm too kind of fragile for lack of a better word for where you're at in your life. Yeah, I think so. Like, I don't ride a, I ride my electric skateboard.

I get around the city on that, but I won't skate anymore. I live right next to a skate park. And I'm not very good, but I've been skateboarding my whole life. I love it. But a couple years ago, I decided that like when you roll an ankle in your skateboarding, it used to be like two days, but now for me it's like two months before my ankle's back to normal. and I value running so much that I just like I'm like at a place where it's like okay

I'm not a kid anymore I'm just not gonna skateboard I'm fine giving that up and I've done that with so many things in life I don't ride a motorcycle anymore I love motorcycles love it but it's just like I don't know I just I did it and I'm glad I did but like I don't need to do that like I was skiing a couple weeks ago in Wyoming

it was super fun and I'm really competent on a snowboard but it was like I would be like I can definitely go faster. I'm just not gonna. Like going through the snowboard park, there's like a huge jump, and it's like I can definitely go off that. I'm just not gonna.

And I feel like when it comes to like drinking, like it's funny because my wife was like a big lush, like she's really fun. She likes to have wine. Her mom's like a big wine officiantado. And like Candace is just completely abandoned drinking in the last couple years. And it's the same kind of thing.

It's just like, yeah, I could do that. Just like I could get back on that skateboard, but it's like, the price for it is so high and I've come to appreciate what I prioritize in life. So, like, no, yeah, it just doesn't fit. Yeah. I actually think that's maturity, though. Like you described it earlier as, oh, I'm a wuss. I don't do drugs or I'm afraid of, or not afraid,

but I don't see how these things fit in my life. And you said it was wussy. I'm like, I don't think it is that way. I think it is like maturity and understanding who you are to such a degree that you're prioritizing the things that matter the most. Yeah, the wimpy thing I think is mostly, like that one ayahuasca thing. Like, I was going with a group of 10 people, and these guys all went to war. Yeah.

And I was like, I'm not going to come on a retreat because I'm scared. Have fun guys. You know, like I was proper whimped out. Yeah. Full on whipped out. But yeah, no, I think, like, not drinking has just been a very easy, very, feels very natural. Yeah. Like, I think, like, if you're tracked from, like, age 30, it was like, three times a week.

And then, like, by 35, it was like, one and a half times a week. Like at age 40 it was like maybe once every other week and like now it's like it's just like almost never just raw dog in life Yeah, it's great. It's great like I've gotten really into melatonin gummies. Oh yeah That's about as hardcore as I know Oh yeah dude, but that is peace to me like the fact that you can confront life in all of like in full HD and not have to Obfuscate it with substances to me is like oh, you're doing pretty good. Because there's a lot of people that can't

and that it's really hard to deal with life. My life is fucking great. I love every second of it. I'm 43. 43 for me is, actually I think I'm 42. I turn 43 in a week. But it's like,

I'm at that age when you can remember your parents being that age. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like 27 feels old when you were 15. You're like, oh, I'm going to be 27 someday. But like, when you start to remember, I remember when my parents,

Like, I think my parents got divorced. My dad was 44. And I remember him then just, he was just an old man. And I'm at that age. That's fucking nuts. But the fact that, like, I have so much free time. My dad worked 60 hours a week when he was in his 40s. I don't fucking, I just fuck off all the time.

Barely work. Like, and then I'm fit. Like, I'm way fitter now. Oh, really? Can run faster, jump higher. Like, objectively fitter. I have higher cardiovascular endurance, like, lower. like lower resting heart rate, like all the metrics.

I am fitter now than I've ever been in my life. Wow. And I've always been a very, very fit guy. Like I'm super fit right now. There's nothing I can, there's nothing I used to do in my 20s that physically I can't do now better. And that's a crazy thing. So like as long as I can keep this gravy train flowing,

I do not want to fuck it up. And like I definitely worry like shots of tequila will fuck it up. Yeah, 100% will. Because I'll be hung over for three. Sleep will be bad. Yeah, I feel gross. I'll get to run the next day. And it's like, I love that.

Yeah. Fucking love that. You said once that you used to run in place of taking a nap. Yeah, like run is, I mean, now I just do, you know, I still sleep as much as I can. Like, I have this thing when I lay down and I can, like, feel the melatonin take it over. I switch my watch to stop watch, and I click start. And when I wake up the morning, I click stop. And so I can, you know, obviously understand how much I've slept.

It becomes abstract if you don't time it. But, like, I sleep a normal amount. sleep, you know, six hours a night, seven hours a night. But I wake up and run every day. And it's just like, what a shock to the system. And, like, I just think doing that gives you a source of energy that's so much more powerful than, like, whether it's napping or caffeine, even though I mainline coffee, like, it's going out of stop.

But, like, I do think it's a source of energy. Yeah. Gives you, like, a constant energy. It raises your, whatever your baseline is, it keeps it up. The fact that I have heart rate super high for an hour and a half every day. Yeah. Seven days a week. It's like your fucking drums.

Yeah, literally. Literally, dude. It just do-to-do-do-do. And I'll listen to the same track over and over. It keeps you going. I was telling Candice that like I read something that athletic brew. Do you know what that is? I feel like I've heard.

Maybe it's called something else. But it's a non-alcoholic beer. It's like the number one selling beer now in Whole Foods or something like that. And I said that to Candace and she was like, no one drinks anymore. and she's like, everybody's running now, that's the new cool thing. I'm like, fuck, she's right. You got to start drinking now.

Like, the fact that fitness is cool now, like running, like, all my friends are in running groups and, like, everybody runs. Cycling. Oh, yeah. Like, wellness, I hate that word. That is, like, the most profound, profane word. But, like, the fact that that's in,

I think it's great. Yeah. I think fantastic. You take another ice. bat. Yeah. Go jog. Let's some weights. I meant to actually compliment you about your marathon video, the Sisyphus video. Yeah. I loved, something that you

didn't include in the video that I want people to know is when you did the New York City Marathon, the most recent one, your goal was to get three-hour marathon. 259. And you technically did. Yeah, so.

And you didn't include that, which I think actually shows a lot of integrity. So one of the decisions so the movie is about it's about perseverance but the through line was me trying to break three hours in a marathon for 17 years and 25 marathons so long it took me to do it

but one of the rules I didn't want the movie to be about running and even though running is the example of perseverance but one of the themes I realized early on was that there could be no excuses in the movie so like beyond the fact that like yeah I did

my watch time was a minute faster than my clock time in New York. And so technically I could have counted that, but I didn't. But also, like, the amount of injuries I sustained over those 17 years, injuries were like I couldn't walk for six months kind of thing, or I blew something out. Like the amount of resources, energy, time I had to spend in physical therapy because I had no business running with a metal leg.

I still don't. And I didn't want to include any of that in there because those were all excuses for me not achieving the goal. So, yeah, all of that was divorced from the, storyline, whether it was like a clock mistiming or physical injuries or any of that other stuff. I cut all of that out. Like none of that story got to be a part of that narrative. It felt weak. Yeah. I mean, in my mind, if I was in your position, you're running the New York City Marathon, your goal is to get 259 and you're looking at your watch and you're going, I'm about to do it.

As long as I keep this pace, I'm going to get my time. And then you get there and then realize it's actually 301. Yeah, my buddies was a minute faster. It had to do with where we start. and going through people on the track and who knows yeah yeah and also like me I didn't run in a straight line you know and so who knows but like it doesn't matter you look it up and it says I ran 301 not 259 so like fuck you I didn't do it like grind me a river do it again that's awesome but that is like a testament to your character and who you really are because you could have included that you could have told people guys I did it 259 like the video could have ended there what a soft story that one.

That's a fucking soft story. But you, I'm curious, do you live your life as if you're a character in a movie? No, not at all. Like a narrative, do you see your day a narrative even without doing the vlogs? No, not even close. I think I did.

And when we talked about before, like, looking back at those old videos and being like, oh, that's who I was. I very much so. But now, you make breakfast for your kids. I think the pendulum has swung so far in the other direction. I have to go back and edit a video today

that I was supposed to finish yesterday and then I have to write an email today a lot of days like go in my office and watch TV I have a set of dumbbells and a pull-up bar in my office and like a 10,000 inch OLED, whatever the fanciest thing

you can buy it, Best Buy is and like every streaming service I just like watch episodes of The Sopranos Prison work out of lift weight Oh I love it and like I have a whole wood shop so just like build stuff I gotta put those shelves up

and like let me spend two weeks doing that. Like, that's my favorite thing. Like, there's productivity, and then there's the exact opposite of productivity, and that's where I live. Yeah. It's all that. It's my favorite thing. Is it ever annoying to be held to the standard, or

to the expectation of the old Casey? No. No, because I did it. And, like, I think that's the thing. It's like, Rick Rubin is my favorite, because he can say these isms that hit so fucking hard, and he's not, he's

delivering those lines because he's lived it and he's done it. Yeah. And the passion, the enthusiasm that I have for him is inversely proportional to the fucking disdain I have for these social media hacks that publish fucking inspo porn and you can do it and live your life. And it's like, motherfucker, you're 24, okay? You're rich parents and you fucking sell it. you sell Amazon marketing kits online, go fuck yourself.

What have you contributed to this world that has given you the right to try to preach inspiration, that's try to preach this fucking bullshit? And I hate it. I hate it. And I hate it because I think that there's a strong argument that I'm part of that, or I was part of that, like the inspo porn, like I very much so early in my career, like making inspirational content is like something that I did. And even though I think looking back in it, everything that I ever did,

was rooted in action, not just in words. I still think there's a fair argument that says, like I contributed to part of that culture. Sure, I'll take that. But Rick Rubin did it, and all his hacks didn't. So fuck them. He deserves being on the pedestal that he reluctantly sits on. So when I look back at like, you know, people talk about my hard work ethic,

and I'm like, oh, I think you realize this email, my wife's been asking me to write She told me to write it two months ago. It's one email. Yeah. You know, I have to go to L.A. next week for work, and I still haven't booked the hotel. Yeah. You know, like I procrastinate, and I like to watch TV and play video games and build shelves. Like, I am not a productive person.

I live a wildly self-indulgent life. But, no matter what I do, I made a fucking video a day for 800 days, and no one's going to take that from me. And, like, I don't use that as an excuse. but I can point at something that I did and say I did that. I have a stack of accomplishments that say I am. Yeah, like I did that. I did that thing. Yeah.

I feel good about doing that thing. I don't want to do it again. I climbed really tall mountains. Like I did those. Literally, like I climbed really big mountains. I don't know what I was thinking. But I did it. And I made to the top.

And I'm psyched that I did that. I don't want to do it anymore. But no one will take that from me. I will never, ever, ever run a marathon in under three hours again. Ever. ever, but I did it, and no one will take that from me. I'll run more marathons. I will never break three hours again,

but I did it, and no one will ever take that from me. So when you see me, like, walking in the New York City Marathon this year, I already signed up for it, I'm so psyched. When you see me, like, four and a half hours into it, like, whistling Dixie and high-fiving people, know that, like, I ran at 257, and I'm done. I'm never doing that again. It's just so hard, hardest thing you've ever done?

I don't know. I've done some hard things. It requires something that I'm... It's a price I'm not willing to pay. I paid it because I did it. But I'm not willing to pay it again. Yeah, you only get a couple of those in life, I feel like. A couple lifts where it's like, I'm going to vlog for 800 days.

I'm going to run a marathon on 257. Like, you only get 10? Like, I don't know how many you get in just a regular lifetime of inhuman lifts. The funny thing about running and marathoning is like 257 is not that good of a time. I mean... Like, if I ran 257, in the York City Marathon, I'd be in 4,000th place or six. No.

Yes. It's that? Yes. And that's why I fucking love running and especially marathoning is because that is a time that took me a lifetime to achieve. That's a time that I'll tattoo on my body that was like the biggest accomplishment physically I've ever done. But to the 3,998 people who have crossed line in front of me, they're like,

oh, shitty day. I could have done better. So like, because if you're listening out there and you run a 228, And you're like, you know, I can sleep through a 257. Like, that's the magic of that race. Yeah. Is that, like, for me, I'm a big guy. I weighed like a, I weighed 193 pounds when I ran a one, uh, 257.

I mean, that's, that's not for nothing. No, it's big. Yeah. I probably would win 85 right now, just I'm not training as hard. But like, I'm big. I have a metal leg. I'm flat-footed. I always fucked up injuries and no business running at all.

And running a 257 meant it was all I did every day for, 18 months. Just focusing on doing that. And I'm not willing to do that again. I'm going to run, listen to my books on tape, and then, like, show up at the marathon and give it my best shot. But there's no way I'm doing that again.

I mean, that is brutal. Do you feel out of place when you hang with other artists or other filmmakers? No. You feel completely like, oh, these are my people and they... I don't always feel like they're my people. But you do or don't?

I don't. There's very few people that I feel like these are my people. Yeah. Like kids. Candice. They're my people. And I've got some close friends.

And I'm like, these are my people. But no, like, weirdly enough, like, I mean, I fucking hate socializing. This is weird about me. Like, I used to be that guy. I vividly remember, like, I had this line that I used to say that I thought was so funny, which is you can't charm your way through life, but you almost can. Because, like, I figured out early, like, how far being charming can take you. Like, being charming will take you so, if you can.

can charm someone, you can do anything. Like in JFK, like, famously could charge anyone. Too many people. He couldn't charm Khrushav. This was like, that's what the book is about from here. But, like, I would walk into any room and I'd be like, okay, everyone in this room is going to know me before. This is when I was like a 22-year-old hack.

I was like, everybody in this room is going to know me before I leave, and everybody in this room is going to like me, and I can do that. And that was such a defining part of, like, my 20s. It's like how I dated girls, how I made friends. how I built so much of my professional relationships. I was just a likable person. That person is fucking dead. He has been murdered.

He has been killed. And I think what I've realized lately is that like the same tool set that's like meeting someone and being like, like to charm someone is to make them feel comfortable. You know? Like if I meet someone like you, you make me feel very comfortable.

It makes me like you. I feel totally comfortable around you. And I'm like, Okay, what's the opposite of that? And like, I go out of my way now. My wife fucking hates it. She calls me out of it. Like, I'm, like, weird and awkward.

Because, like, I don't want, I'm so reluctant to let new people into my life in any capacity. I'm reluctant to make new friends. I don't want to get to know new people. Like, when someone's, like, just grab a cup of coffee, I'd love to. I'm like, can we jump on a call? Like, any of those things make me, like, I don't know why, but, like, and I don't like this word, but like anxiety, like, I don't like I don't like, I don't like those things. They fucking weird me out.

I don't want to know anybody else. I know the people that I like. I live with them. They're great. I don't want new friends. And that's a really bad thing. And I recognize that as a bad thing. You think so?

Yeah, I think so. I think it makes your life small. And I don't know where, I think, you know, like the YouTube success was so fast. And it's such a weird kind of fame, internet fame, that it got to a place where I felt like every, everybody was trying to take something from me, especially in the YouTube community. It's like very literally,

like if you can get close enough to the right person, their shadow will benefit you. You know, if I can get Mr. Beast in my video, then if I can get a selfie of Mr. Beast, it will benefit me. Clout chasing, they call it. I just,

it made me very jaded. And I kind of got to a place where it was like, well, how do I trust? Like, is this person my friend? Or do they just want to? And I kind of felt like a dope. about it. Yeah.

And I think that I've gotten very defensive because of that. I'm not necessarily proud of it. But it's made me like a little fucking weird. I wonder if that's inevitable though. I wonder if that's just a just goes with the territory

of getting older. Yeah, Jerry Seinfeld has some funny stuff about not wanting to know anybody new. Yeah, it's like, you don't have that much time. You don't have much time and then time's fungible. If I give an afternoon

or a lunch to someone new, that means I don't get to give that time to someone that I really like. Yeah. So why take that? a chance. Yeah. It's why I don't go out.

I will not go out. Yeah. Let's go out to dinner. Let's come to this part. Like, three times a year, twice a year, like I will not go out. I like, talk about Jerry Seinfeld. Like what he calls garbage time. There's quality time and garbage time.

Maybe he calls it something else. But like that was the ethos of the joke. Like I like to go home and sit around the house with my kids. And like, sometimes we eat together. Sometimes we don't. Sometimes we don't. Sometimes I have to help Francine with their math homework. Sometimes we don't.

Sometimes I just can't. I go home so I can't just yell at me if you're looking at my phone. much. But it's like my wife and myself with our two kids in our apartment and no one else is there. There's no fucking way your dinner or your party or like your something launch

or your event or this there's no way that's going to compete with that. Yeah. And I'm like I've come this far in life. I get to choose that I want to do. What I choose that I want to do is like be at home with those like two little kids and Candace. Yeah. That is, I kind of see that as the purpose of life in a way.

I agree. Tending to your garden. It's great. Yeah. I don't have to, so why would I? Yeah. Like, if I get to do that, you can always have this thing that's amazing or maybe try something else that you might like. Wouldn't you always take that thing that's amazing that's amazing?

Especially if that thing that's amazing is fleeting. It doesn't last forever. That's the thing. Your babies are only going to be your babies for 10 more years? Way less. Less? Like, Francine's nine. They had like two years before she's going to be, like,

hanging out with friends. Or, like, in her room with the door shut. Mad of you? Matt at her mom That's the thing about girls Dad is always right And the nice guy and the fun one And all the issues boil up with Candice

Thank God And you get to come in and be like Hey I know I know so sorry sweetie Come here, sweet girl I agree with you Mommy didn't mean that Like I get to do that guy

If there was a famous filmmaker To go on YouTube Who do you think would Be a good YouTuber That is currently a famous film This is such a fun question that is currently... Or in the past. Because like, I think that it is like the...

The Michelle Gondry types, the Spike Jones types, even maybe even like the Wes Anderson types, who have this like very specific, very accessible style. Like, why do we love Wes Anderson? Because like, we know how to draw like a beautiful text and have it be centered. Like those shots that he does are so like I'm like Margo Tenenbaum in the tent You know like that like those shots are so amazing What would it be like if that guy did that but like on YouTube

And posted a video once a week and like they were about his real life Like give me that And like what if Spike Jones got his start now instead of in 1996 or whatever And he made all those amazing music videos But instead of music videos they were like little movies Little viral videos So I think like those kinds of like non-traderxes traditional people. Like I think that, I don't think that Quentin Tarantino or Nolan would be served

well trying to shoehorn their talent, their skill set into YouTube. But I do think like those, there was no home for the kinds of content that like Spike Jones is creating like on his director's label DVD. There's like all this shit that directors label DVD from 2001. There's all these little clips that he didn't never shared anywhere. And there's one video I think it's called Amarillo by Morning. And I think. this story goes he was shooting music video or TV commercial on Amarillo, Texas, and he met these like real like backcountry kids. And he just went and hung around with them. It's like shot on DV. It's really shitty quality. But they're like these aspiring cowboys that live like they're

very, very, very, like low income kind of people who live in the woods. And they took four bungee cords and attached it to a like a 50 gallon barrel and attached it to four trees. And they would try to ride on that to practice bucking bulls. And it's just a portrait of these kids' lives. that is 100% a YouTube video and he never had a place for it so I think those kinds of unconventional filmmakers that had to shape their craft around music videos

or short movies and eventually into feature films I think they would have had a really natural amazing place on YouTube I think even a lot of documentarians specifically like I know you always talk about Anvil but like what a movie that could have been on YouTube

and it would have been like trending number one Like, oh, perfect. Werner Herzog, please don't forget to like and subscribe my video at the end of this video. Not before the end. Keep your eyes on the screen while we make the video. Like, cute and fucking great. That's what we need, dude. He'd be so good.

Yeah. Have you ever seen The Jinks that documentary? Dude, Andrew Drecki, you need to watch the Jinks. Maybe the greatest documentary I've ever seen. Oh, about the murders. Yeah, Robert Durst. Yeah, no. Incredible. Unbelievable. It's a series.

Yeah, yeah. It's a five part. Yeah. And he, at the end, on Mike. He killed them all, of course. Bro. Unbelievable. If that's on YouTube, it's like the greatest YouTube video ever. Right. Especially if instead of like, it was like four parts, six parts.

Yeah, four or five, something like that. It was like, imagine if it was 100 parts and each one was five minutes long. Dude. 800 days of it? Now we're talking. Eight hundred days in a row. Unraveling a murder. What is a, are you proud of the Safdi brothers and seeing their success?

How has that been for you as someone that closely worked with them and mentored them for a long time? I mean, I would push back at the mentorship part. I think I learned more from them than, I think they taught me more than I could have taught them. But those guys, you know, how we met them was Van and I were making short videos in 2002. And there was no YouTube or anything. So we just put them on our website like nice statbrothers.com and our videos would be there. And we had a contact page and, you know, we get like three emails a week from people. And we got an email that it was like, hey, we're a couple of kids from Brooklyn.

These are our films. And it was called Red Bucket Films. And it wasn't just Josh and Benny. It was Ariel Schulman, who's a big Hollywood director now. And a couple of other people in there, like really super talented people that have gone in different directions, have all found their success. But I remember watching their videos that they sent to us. And I was like, holy shit.

I genuinely thought we were the only people in the world that were like putting all this effort into making internet videos that nobody was watching and then these guys were doing it and they were doing it on a completely different level and that's how we linked up with them and they helped us make a documentary in like 2002 I remember

but their success is not at all a surprise to me in fact I think that like it's it's I they were like famous wildly successful filmmakers when I first met them. They just hadn't, no one else knew about it. You know, like they hadn't, they've always been famous. It's just it took a while for the rest of the world to learn about it.

And like, their talents had yet to find a place, like a landing. And I think they've done that. But like, the curse is, if you watch The Curse, Benny Safdi's new series. Wait. Is that with Nathan Fielder? Yeah, Nathan Fielder. I love Nathan Fielder. And I've been meaning to watch it.

I haven't. It's Nathan Fieldsers, like, you know, a magnum opus. There's no question. and he's unbelievable in it. But like, I watched that series. I'm just texting Benny throughout the entire series. Like, Benny and I have the same relationship we've always had, and he's such an exceptional talent, such an understated talent.

He's so quiet about everything he does. And then Josh is like, I remember fighting with Josh, like tooth and nail about wanting to change the name of one of his movies that I produced because we couldn't sell it. Which movie? It's called Daddy Longlegs is how it was sold, and it's how IFC distributed it, and it's what it said in the theater.

was when it was out, but he named it go get some rosemary. And I was like, we can't call it that. Like, that's too hard. Go get some rosemary. Like, it's too, nobody's going to, and we fought. And the deal we made is if it gets into the Cannes Film Festival, we'll leave the title alone.

And it got into the Kin Film Festival. So it's in the Cannes Film Festival as Go Get Some Rosemary. But then no one bought it. And we eventually sold it to IFC under the condition. We changed the title. Wow. And even more so, we like had him, like, he came up Daddy Long Legs, Josh and Benny did, but that was their title. It wasn't their first choice, but it was their title at least. But the French distributor just changed the name of the movie without asking them.

Completely just changed the name of the movie. We saw the French posters and were like, what the fuck? What did they change it to? I don't know. It's called like my dad and the kids or something like that. Leave it to the French, bro. Leave it to the fucking French. But Josh is like, talk about uncompromising artists. Like Josh is one of the most uncompromising artists I've ever met.

And that's what makes him fucking brilliant. Like he knows who he is. He knows the story he wants to tell it. He knows exactly how he wants to tell it. And that's the end of the story. Like ambivalence and creativity is a weird thing. You know, like me, I'm always like, tell me what's wrong with it. Tell me more.

And I'm always open. And he's the opposite. He's a fucking brick wall because he knows exactly what he wants to do. And seeing that kind of confidence is so inspiring. Visionary. Yeah, but unbelievable vision. visionary, unbelievable visionary. It's like that rule, like in life in the world, you can do whatever you want, but you can't

want whatever you want, because most people don't know what it is that they want. Like Josh is, it is so clear what he wants to be doing and how he wants to do it. And I think that's expressed in every movie he's ever made. Wow. But those guys are, I mean, they're unbelievable. They're incredible. Yeah. They like through and through since they were kids, like they have not waived, their talents has not hiccoughed, has not blinked.

not blinked once. I mean, I remember watching Good Time being like, what the fuck is this, bro? What a fucking movie. Who, where? What? Where did this come from? So dark. Out of nowhere. So heavy. And just like... That music and the dress

so dark. And it's all shot righty. It's perfect. I remember watching being like, who the fuck is this? Or like, how do you get a shot of in Uncett Gems? Like a shot of Adam Sandler walking down Fifth Avenue. They shot that on like a 1,200 million, like a telescope is what they shot that on.

Just like those shots It's like there's only like two guys in the world crazy enough to get with those shots like they give you a sense of claustrophobia and the sense of angst and like how difficult it is to move in New York City but it's Adam Sandler. Yeah. No, they're the best. They're the best. Did you guys hang out a lot at 368? Yeah, like the history of like the building of 368 Broadway is an untold story. But like we, Van and I moved in there in 2001 and it was primarily just like personal injury lawyers and like dipshit real estate.

scam artists and like some interesting artists slowly started to show up and like Josh and Benny and his crew showed up and Henry Juice who's another wildly successful very talented filmmaker moved in and you know like Neve Schulman had a space in there and then I remember like Lena Dunham moved in she was like above us like go up there and help her screw shelves in the wall and like my Buddy Oscar, like, built a loft in her studio space for it. And, yeah, like the revolving door that was that. Like, Greta Gerwig worked out of our building for a little while. The revolving door that was that building, I'm still there.

I'm never leaving. But, like, right now, there's a bunch of interesting younger people that are sort of, like, musicians and painters, and there's, like, I love it. It's like a college dorm. But you're kind of the old guard a little bit. Yeah, for 100%, not kind of. like 100%. What do you think the future of that building

will be in the art that comes out of there? I don't know, but I hope it can... It's a dying thing. Like there's not many spaces left, especially in downtown Manhattan, that are sort of raw and fucked up that artists can work out of for... It's expensive as hell,

but it's still fairly reasonable. Like most places in that part of New York City are polished and nice and just way out of reach. But that is one of a very few kind of spaces. There's still some in Chinatown where you can get sort of a raw space and paint or trash the place

because you like to, you know, you like to paint on the floor. There's a painter who used to be in the space next to me and she would layer canvas is on the floor and like the floor I had a half an inch of paint on it. Like that's hard to find in Manhattan. Musicians that just have music noise. 24 hours, it's hard to find in Manhattan. So I'm

in a space like that and I think it's part of the reason why I'm so happy when I'm in my office and it's the same reason why when I was in LA for a minute like I built a studio, my garage once, then an extra, like I never was able to capture what I had there. Any part of it ever. Never even got close to it.

Yeah. Because you can't replicate it with what New York has? Yeah, like we talked, it was the first thing I said when I came in this tent was like the importance of a physical space. Yeah. And that yeah, that's no more that's no more

sort of tangible and staring me in the eye than it is when I walk into my office building. Motivating to see other people getting after it? No. Really? I mean it's not not motivating, but that's not that's not the first thing I take from it. Like it's, it's just more exciting.

It feels like you're part of something. You know, like I remember David Doberich said to me once about high school, because I hated high school. I had such a terrible experience in high school. And he loved high school. He had the most beautiful take on high school, which was he said, it's everybody you love and everybody you hate

all stuck in the same building together. And I was like, oh, that's amazing. And when I walk into my office building, It's like everybody I know and everybody I like see every day. We're all stuck in this building together. Most of the people in here are doing kind of interesting things. Yeah. Like there's a sign on my door that says do not knock under any circumstances.

And like four or five times a day, it's like, and I just know, like there's only four people on the planet who will violate, who will see that sign and feel comfortable up to knock. And I'm psyched to see all four of them at any given time. That's cool. It's the best. That's really cool. I didn't want to bring this up, but with the David Dobrick thing,

what's the status with the documentary? Is that coming out? I mean, it's funny because I've done nothing to put it out there since we premiered it at South by Southwest. But there's still very, there's interest in putting it out there. It's a great movie. I think it's a really important story and one that I'm psyched to share. I think the ambivalence on my part is it's so far outside the wheelhouse of the kind of stuff that I make. That, you know, I was psych to finish it and psych to screen it in Austin, Texas two years ago.

But I haven't really felt much pressure to put it out there beyond that. I don't know where it fits in in my canon of work. Yeah, it existed in a place in time and it did the purpose of what you wanted it to do. Yeah, also I'm not going to put a 90-minute documentary about, you know, the pitfalls of online influence and power dynamics and sexual assault and all of these very sort of heavy tropes

that form the undercurrent that is so I think omnipresent yet seldom acknowledged in the world of social media. Like that doesn't go on my YouTube channel. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's reasonable. It's like I don't know what to do with that. And meeting with distributors is like,

I should be doing that and I should be better at that. But fuck, do I hate that process. That's why I went to YouTube in the first place. Yeah, I don't want it to deal with notes and back and forth and all this bullshit. How long until you think scripted gets figured out on YouTube? I don't know if it will ever. We've got great places for scripted.

Do you think it has to be TV? It could be YouTube. I just think like we have these verticals now. I think it's all becoming homogenized. My daughter doesn't know any difference between YouTube Disney Plus or not. It's just one of the places she pushes a button that plays on the TV. That's interesting.

She knows YouTube is the only place she can go to to to find weird. We call it weird. It's the stuff she's not allowed to watch. But she also knows that if she clicks on Mommy's profile on Amazon Prime, it's going to be like all this murder stuff that she's not allowed to watch. So I think like everything's going to become one big fat vault. Where like everything goes in, you just open the door and it's all there. Interesting.

You and I will forever think of these things as sort of siloed. But for the next generation who grew up with it, it's all just to be one big bucket. This is where I go to see these kinds of things and these kinds of things. And it all plays on the same TV. It all plays in the same little screen. And that's what it is. And that's it.

Yeah. Casey, thank you so much, brother. This is fun. I really genuinely am so grateful for this. This is great. I was really nervous to talk to, I'll be honest. Why? I don't know.

You've documented so much of your life. Why? Casey, don't do it. Don't do it, Casey. You've documented so much your life. you've talked about so many things that I was like, I don't know what we can discuss that would be new or interesting to you. And I don't know, I feel like I learned a lot. And I feel like you've touched on things that I haven't heard you speak about in an interesting way. Yeah, I thought this is a good

open conversation. I really enjoyed hearing you talk a lot and I appreciate the perspective. How long have we been talking? Probably like an hour. Really? Brandon, how long have we been talking? Almost three. Almost three. I got to go, man. Thank you, bro. Thank you so much.