Camp Gagnon - Chinese Gangster On Ex-Boss Surviving a Headshot, Turf Wars, and Chinatown Gangs

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

🚨Don't Forget to Rate Us 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟Peter Chin is a former leader of the Ghost Shadows, a Chinese gang. Today, he joins us to discuss his former career as a gang leader, crazy prison experiences, and recall stories from his book. WELCOME TO CAMP! 🏕️Shoutout to our sponsor: Morgan & Morgan, Bluechew and MagicSpoon: https://magicspoon.com/camp👕🧢 GET YOUR CAMP DRIP HERE: https://campgoods.co🏕️ Get Today In History Daily Newsletter Here (Free): https://camp.beehiiv.com/Purchase "In the Ghost Shadows: The Untold Story of Chinatown's Most Powerful Crime Boss" by Peter Chin TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 Peter Chin’s Life In Hong Kong + Moving to New York21:20 Joining The Ghost Shadows + Shooting at Rival Gang40:10 Robbing a Gambling House53:23 Taking Over The Nightclub + Meeting Wise Guy1:12:26 Kidnapping Ex-Nightclub Owner + Meeting Italian Godfather1:18:08 Chinese Gangs Association With Italian Mob1:22:53 Wise Guy Gets Whacked + Fighting Over Territories1:29:24 Nicky Louie Gets K.O. In Jail1:34:14 Timothy “Giraffe” Lee + $30k Bounty on Ghost Shadows + Shootout at Nightclub1:54:03 Calling a Hit on Nicky Louie + Turf War2:19:23 “Potato” Shoots Nicky During Mahjong + Surviving a Shot To The Head2:26:33 Time In Jail + Peter Meets Cop Who Arrested Him2:32:04 Getting Out of Jail + Importance of Respecting a Code

You were the leader of one of the most notorious gangs in all of New York City, specifically a Chinese gang in Chinatown. So take me all the way back. Okay. You were born in Hong Kong. It was a third poor place. Nothing but farming. I came to the United States when I was eight years old. I never seen my father in my life before until when I came here.

My friend had a diligent. Have you ever shot a gun? I said, shot a gun. I never touch a gun. Before I even come close to them, they see me coming. So they pull out those guns and start shooting at me. So I fire all my shot. Right?

Nobody got hit. I'm a lousy shooter. This gambling house robbery, what did you do? It's out of hand now. A lot more than what I expected, right? I didn't plan to bring a duffel bag or anything, right? An average gambling house robbery. Would it be like $20,000, $50,000?

$1,000. And one night. And how did you find people to loan money to? I don't find out. They're coming to you. If he don't pay off the $1,000, he could pay the insurance. And so you took the money that you had got from the business. I bought that night a company, not because I want it.

I'm not a drinker. The guy that sold you the nightclub, you eventually had to go kidnapped. him. Yeah. Why? I had a handshake with him. He told me five years at least, but it's only two years. Peter Chin, how are you, sir? Oh, great, great, great. Nice to meet you. Great to meet you as well. Thank you so much for, thank you so much for joining me today here in the tent. You have a fascinating story that you've put in this book here in the ghost shadows.

Okay. You have a fascinating life where you were the leader of one of the most notorious gangs in all of New York City, specifically a Chinese gang in China, And your story is absolutely amazing. So take me all the way back. You were born in Hong Kong. Yes, I was born in Hong Kong, and they called this section called New Territory.

Like a certain section, they have a name for it, right? Like, I'm not too familiar with Hong Kong. But that, back then, in those days, it was a third poor place. Nothing but farming. Nothing but farming. Farming. And why I was living there with my mom and my sister while we was growing up.

I came to the United States when I was eight years old. So during that time, eight years old, I have not seen one car, came to, came in. Never saw a car. Never saw a car in our section where we live. It was just goats and cows. Yeah, you see a lot of cow. Couching. You see a lot of cows, yeah, seriously.

It's not rich plays or anything like that. You can say it's poor, you know, and dirt road. They don't have a concrete road. People walk those dirt and then make a salad. Yeah, because there's nothing there except, yeah, farming. Were your parents involved in farming? No, see, my mom, see, my father left while, you know, about after I was born, yeah, and then he left.

I never seen my father in my life before until when I came here, eight years old. So he left while, you know, where about when I was born, I guess. Oh, wow. And your mom, what did she do for work? She, no, my mom, when my mom was in Hong Kong, she does a, she can't do nothing, but she doesn't, I have four sister,

and I, and the fifth one. I'm the last one, right? The only boy. Yeah, and only boy. So I'm the last one. And then until my mother, my mother got here in the United States, She had a baby sister. That's it, right?

But look, so four sisters and me, and way around about the ages, like two, three years, two, three years. You know, wait about that. So she basically was staying home and watch us, you know, because, you know, we don't have no nanny to watch us or something. So then she does, like, she do, like, she raised, like, a pig. No, a little bit, you know, one, two pig. and they sell them, right?

So, and, uh... Did you have to take care of the pigs? No, the pig, one time, the pig, like, seemed... I stuck my hand, right? And there was two pigs. So, uh, the pig, like, got a little rough with me, right? So I, I was young, like, maybe, I would maybe five or something. I remember that I filed a stick and whipped them around, yeah, yeah.

But, look, going back to those days, when I was in Hong Kong, right? Where I was living with my mother. I never had a kite, not even in a kite. And after I came out of prison, I said to myself, and that's always my dream when I was young. And I watched other kids, right?

And then they fly in kite. And I, you know, I stand next to them. And then watching those kite, very colorful up there, but I don't have one, right? And they let me play a little bit, and then, you know, that's it. And I didn't have no toy, nothing. You had no toys growing up.

No toy, so what did you do for fun? What's up, camp family? What's up, campers? Two big announcements, don't skip this. Two massive announcements. The merch store is back open. That's right. Camp Goods is back in stock.

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supporting the show. You're supporting me and you're obviously, you know, supporting all the amazing people to make the show happen like Christos, who is currently throwing me T-shirts from underneath this desk here. So please check that out. Additionally, I'm on the road. That's right. I'm doing my one hour of stand-up comedy. Some of the greatest jokes ever written, okay? That's not true. But they are my jokes and I wrote them. And I'll be in Rochester, New York, March 26 and I'll be in Portland, Maine on April 27th. And that one, I'm doing with Joey Avery. You know, Joey Avery, a friend of the show. He sat across from me many times. I've explained some things to him. And he might be my dumb friend, but he is a brilliant stand-up comedian and we

will be there in Portland, Maine. If you are in these areas, please come out and we're adding a ton of dates all through the summer. So check out my website, themarkgagnon.com for all tour dates and updated info. Come hang out with me. I talk to every single person after the show. If you want to kick it with me, maybe have a drink. I'll be there. And I will see you. you guys on the road. Now let's get back to the show. I, well, basically is a hill, wax. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just nothing. Nothing. I mean, so nothing, basically nothing. And we play, what, jumping around and so on like that, that's it? And you went to school in Hong Kong for one day. Now, listen, I was so excited. I wanted to go to school.

Your sisters went to school? Yeah, they went to school. So that's why I don't know any Chinese, right? I don't know how to read and write. But as I grew, I learned it from songs, you know, but it's not a lot compared to, you know, people educated. So the first day on the school, that night, my mother, you know, got the uniform ready for me, right? You know, in Hong Kong, the weather is always hot. So the shorts, I remember, it's blue, the little short.

And maybe I've weighed 60 pounds back then, yeah, skinny small. So then I had a white shirt, right? White shirt and a little tie or something like. So now that night when my mother hanged the suit, I couldn't sleep. I was so excited I wanted to go to school, right? Because I'm here. I'm with my mother this place.

I don't see nothing. So only what I see. You and the pigs. Yeah, yeah. So okay, I was so excited. Then my mother dressed me up And then she put her on a sandal, usually because it's hot over there. So people don't hardly wear long sleeve.

Yeah, they usually wear a short sleeve. And she put on the sandals. And then she put on one, no problem. The second one got a hole on the bottom, right? I said, Mom, there's a hole there. Just wear it for today, right? Just so, okay, okay. Because I never asked my mother for anything.

Yeah. Even though I don't have any toy, I never, like, answer her. Oh, buy me this, buy me that? No, I never asked her. So even when I was even when I was even young, I realized what's going on. But then, so my mother actually took care of the family,

the children, right? She got a handful of it. So whatever she could do, make extra money, right? So the pig, that's how the pig came in place. And she'd do a sewing, like those bees, you know, like bees, something like, yeah. And that's what she does, to make extra money. How she, we survived due those times.

My grandfather was here for pretty long time. So he sent money back. Okay. Because your grandfather was in America. Yeah, he came from, yeah. He was here before us. So he sent a little money back. So using that money to raise us, you know.

My mother can't go to work. Who's going to look after the kid? Everybody's about that age. So when we landed, there, wow. I saw the Chinatown where we're living, right? That building, six floor. Before you get to moving to the U.S.,

when you go to school, you have a hole in your sandal. And you go to school, and on your first day of school, you get in a fight. Yeah, because I don't know that guy. What happened was, in Hong Kong, all school will make you sing the anthem

or something like that, right? About school anthem or, yeah, they're a school anthem. So boys, one side, girl, one side, one line. So the teacher's in the middle. So the guy that lines up like from short and then little tall, like keep going up, right? So he's tall than me, the guy.

And he's heavy than me, bigger than me. He pushed me. So it had a diamond of effect. So what happened that I felt on the guy in front of me? He fell on that. So it went all the way down to the teacher. So I didn't now, I didn't look at the teacher no more because I got up.

I swing back I hit him on the face, the teacher saw it so the chin come here so it took me immediately to the principal office

right so they had they had those is it whip yeah so yeah I whipped like sticks you know

bamboo stick right they had all kind of side yeah then they so she took one like pretty

at the middle of then if She's supposed to, I think, whack me like for five times. Because in Hong Kong, they whack you, nothing you could do. Those days. They don't do that in America. Yeah, yeah.

Even those days in the 60? Maybe, maybe, yeah. Wow. So, yeah, now they don't do it, do it. Yeah, but back then. So by the time she got to whack me three times on the head, put your hand out, right? She's hold my hand and it starts whacking.

Wow, it has so much. Tehr coming out. I cried, I just took my hand and left, right? I ran and went back to my mother because my mother never seen me cry like that because I'm not in trouble making my mother know that hey son why are you crying you're supposed to be in school

I'm not going to school I was scared of a whip Yeah of course So then no I told my mother what happened My mother said no Come with me to school And when she said that

I put my brick on I don't want to go Like I want to pull back right But I don't forget Don't go Because the whip I was thinking about the whip They're going to whip you and your mom. You're like, whoa.

I was young, you know, so I was only like six years old. So, no, I was scared of the whip. So no, no, no. So she pulled me. She pulled me and then I walked with her back to the school. Went to the principal office, right? The teacher and asked her. So now you punish my son.

And you don't punish the other guy. Oh, I don't see it. Which is true. that is, he shouldn't see it, but it takes two. Yeah, of course. You didn't just fight them for no reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, then my mother said, so, because we was, submitted all those papers coming to, just trying to, we were just waiting to get approved and we'll come to the United States. So my mother was thinking, I guess, you know, go to school or not go to school,

and don't make no difference no more because he's not going to finish here. We're going to probably leave within three months. So he's not. I'm not going to finish the whole year school in there. Then she says, right? Okay. You're not going to punish that guy.

Okay. My son's not going to come to school. Not going to come to school anymore. Wow. I was happy. Wow. No more whips. Yeah, no more whips.

And then there you go. Then I stay home with Mama. I go to the hill. And I don't know. But I, there's nothing for me to play. But I was young, you know, jumping around. And then, you know. And then you come to New York City?

Yeah. When I was eight years old, Well, I didn't go to school for like She didn't think it was that take that long It took about two years Yeah, before they They let us come to the United States It's approved, I mean

So when I got to here We took We landed at a Chinatown, right? East Boree, I don't know if you know that Yeah, yeah You do? Yeah Okay, so right by the Manhattan Bridge

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, just right by there. So we landed there, wow, I looked at that building, right? But it's old building, you know. I don't know anything better. Wow, so tall this building. Sixth floor. It's only six floor, right?

And I said, wow, so tall. Yeah. I was, like, I was amazed, and I was trying to study, right? And it's like, wow. So now, my father was there already, waiting for us, right? You meet him for the first time. First time, right? So I didn't know.

So, wow, I said, look at this. I told my sister, look at this. The bed is totally different. They got spring, right? We slept on the board. We got no swing. No, we don't have no swing. So, like I say, that, that section of the place, Hong Kong those days, is dirt poor place.

You know, we, everybody makes it, you know, trying to make it whatever they got, you know. So when you're happy, it's okay. So now, when I look at the building, wow, I said that way. When I look at it, I thought Empire State Building, like, you know, the six buildings, six more. That's the Empire State Building. But this is big for me the first time. So we went to an apartment. My grandfather, my grandmother was living there.

So now, my father lived there now. He was where he came, he went to Brazil. I don't know. When he got to New York, I think probably, probably. A short time. He went to Brazil. Yeah, at first, he wasn't in New York. He was in Brazil.

So when we immigrated here, right, probably he knows. I'm sure he knows. So probably he meets over here. But at first, he was in Brazil. So, wow, the swing bed, right? So I jump up, right, the bed. And then chief jumping, jump, I went down. Oh, here you go.

He screamed the shit out of me. Wow. So, okay, okay. Then I still don't know who is he. I still don't know. My mother never said anything. So the same day, a night, right?

We came in my father. We landed like 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock. So by like 4 o'clock, we go dinner. They take us out to dinner. Then my father was sitting across the table, right? Everybody was there. Then my mother said, you know who that person is? No.

He said, that's your father. My father, what father? I didn't know what father was. Nobody told me that. I don't know what the word father was. Wow. That's how when I eat and naive I was. I told me, when I left the street,

my father forced me to, you know, that night he came after me with a knife and talking shit about. So I know there's no return. So I ran downstairs. Your dad pulls a knife on you. Yeah. Like he was in the kitchen.

Basically, this thing is. not about me, you know. He he he was me like from time to time but no reason. If you, I go to school, I play hockey, right? I cut school, right?

And I could see that. Man, and I don't, you don't need to explain to me. You could whip me. I live, but not once. You did nothing wrong. Nothing. And he was just angry.

Yeah, because see, he has a temper like, well, he got a bad temper. But it's, I wouldn't do that. That's why when people finish reading my book, I said, don't do what my father did because it's going to ruin the whole family. So, you know, yeah, actually my mom,

I care about my mom and my sister, and that's why I dedicate this book to them because of my father, could have done. Now, he don't need to do any better. Just don't, like, torture us. Like, he did it and everything. Like, four of my sister, every one of them, except my baby sister.

They all took off. Different day, yeah, different day. I took off. Not one stay back. Everyone left. Yeah, but different day. Not like one time. Yeah, of course.

Yeah, because the last one was, the last one with us was, married. So she was the third sister. First sister left. Then the one with me, right? She left. Wow.

And then my, then what hurt me more and when I came home, I didn't notice that. So this sister, my second sister, oh, she's very, very, right? She's like,

acting like a mother to me, right? I said, Nancy. So her name is Nancy. My second sister. You're not too old from my age, but she cared about, you know. She was like a mother to you.

Yeah. But everybody left, everyone dispersed because your dad's temper. Yeah, different reasons, but to his violence. Did your mom ever leave? Well, he put my mother in the hospital. No.

Like mental hospital for three years. And my second sister, Nancy, she go and visit her every day, bring her food. Yeah. Uh, yeah, she, no reason, you know. And, uh. So now you're like, you're young.

You're maybe like eight or nine years old and now you're on the street. No, I was, I was on the street 13. At 13. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, you know, during that time, I was, uh, they put me in a PS school. Mm-hmm. What's those school?

Not kindergarten, right? It goes, uh, how do you say it? The PS, like elementary school. Elementary school, yeah. I was, they threw me in there, right? So, uh, or middle school, maybe. Yeah. Not middle school, right?

It was elementary. School at 13. Paul Gray? Yeah, elementary school. Elementary, right? Yeah. So, I mean, even though I don't speak and work in English, right?

They put you there because of your age. So they put us there. And within two years, I left already, right? And those school, actually, there's two famous schools in high school. There's two high school in Manhattan, low east side, right? All the gangsters come from those schools.

Oh, really? All. So at your high school. or at your elementary school, it's all different gangsters. Yeah, I mean, all gangsters, black ego, white ego, the ghost shadow, or whatever. They came from Supper Park School, high school,

or 65, junior high, 65, though two school, breeze gangster. Wow. They all came from that. Yeah, 99%. When was the first time you met a gangster that was involved in the ghost shadows? The guy named Spirit.

Spirit. Yeah, aka Spirit. We were named John Chan, John, Johnny Chan, Shakespeare in. But, yeah, he got killed. He told me in. Yeah, he told me actually. So you're on the street and he's like, hey, you can stay with me. No, I asked him for help.

Oh, wow. It's a long story. So you wanted me go back from the beginning, right? Like, when I first got it. So I jumped up and down the spring, right, match it. Oh, he cursed the shit on me. And wow, who's this guy? So I still doesn't know.

So when we went to eat dinner that night, Then my mother, that's your father. I swear, I don't know what a father word. That word, I think he's mean. That's it. Also, a mean person. That's a father. Yeah, yeah.

I didn't know. So that's how that year I was. So he has a bet timbre. Whatever, he could, he don't have to. If he don't do what he do, maybe we'll have a better life. Maybe. So my sister, Nancy, that night, we went to help my mom. mother in the factory, the garment factory.

And she is the last section, like putting those plastic bag and, you know, ship them out. So back then, China down, they had a lot, a lot of factory. And because of China, it didn't open up yet.

They didn't send nothing to China. But it had a lot of, they had a lot of garment that go out. Right. Yeah. So being that my mother, by herself, there's no way she could do it. You're going to put, I got a price stack. You got to maybe button those things.

No, one person cannot do it. And she can't stand all day. You can't sit and do those things. She got to put those pin, right? She's working hard. Yeah. And she works at like 60 an hour. No bullshit.

16 an hour, 18 hours? Because why I was going to school. But at first, at the beginning, I asked my mother, Now you're too young because my mother had my older sister, those three helping her those days. So while they got, you know, when I stepped in there, helped my mother, they, my other sister looked for something else to do, you know, like, right? So because helping my mother is, when I asked my mother for money, no, right? So my other sister went to, like, factory job.

So she do a hemming, you know, like different, a put button on or something. So when I asked my mother, you know, you're too young. You can, you can't, you don't come. So I waited a little longer. And as soon as I got out of school, I didn't care, I just went up there. Ever since, I went up there and put those back.

Oh, wow. And she's started working. Yeah. Wow, so fast. I was young. I fast. Like 12 years old doing work. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So because of she stayed there until like, even though I had school day, right? But she got to make this shipment for tonight. Tomorrow morning, they come and pick up those garments and ship them out.

Those days, like every day, 2,000 pieces, 1,500 pieces, every day. Yeah. I mean, it's just an insane, like, so like you're growing up in Hong Kong,

you're doing fine, not going to school, you don't like school, and then you come to America, it's this whole new place. You see this whole world. There's so much opportunity. And you meet your father,

You don't have any connection with him. He's very angry. All your sisters, all your mom, everyone's scared of him. Yeah, yeah. Everybody leaves. And now you're going to school, but you don't speak any English. So obviously you're not doing that good in school. No, no.

And you eventually meet some other Chinese kids that are at the school, right? And there, you know, some of them are involved in some of these organizations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what happened was that I have a friend. And I didn't join nobody yet. I was still, back then, I was. I was still with helping my mother. So from time to time, the black ego,

they come and ask me, hey, hang out with us. Because those days, the black eagle and white eagle, like they have brothers, their little brother and older brother. So they're together. The white eagles and black eagles. Yeah, they together. But they had two groups, you know.

So they, they, from time to time, I didn't have those times. I was thinking about, I helping my mother. I had no intention of doing nothing else because I see how hard my mother is working. So all the money that she worked, she made, she spent it all that. She never spent money on her.

So, yeah, so I don't know, no, no, I was thinking about helping my mother. So I didn't know that side of world like gangster, right? I didn't know, but I watched a movie, yeah, I know. that they're no good, they're bad people, right? Like, that's how I think. But I didn't know how. So, so I, I denied him a lot of times, you know. I always say no.

Come hang out with this. Come hang out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So now I had a friend that, just a friend in school. He's not like with anybody. He's just a schoolboy. So one day, I wasn't there in school. So he grabbed my friend, the guy.

So my friend, ask him, this is what he's told me, though. Ask him where I'm at, where he went. He said, I don't know. He said, I don't know. The Black Eagle, I was, where's Pete? I didn't have, they didn't call me a kid yet. What's Pete? He said, I don't know.

Actually, he don't know. So they beat him up, right? So bad. Bust the lip, eye popped out, black and blue. Wow. But when I came to meet him, I didn't know that happened. I said, look, what, though? What happened to you?

Oh, they came down, they asked for you. I told them I don't know. They beat the shit on me. Wow. What? I said, listen, okay. Do you want revenge? You know, like how Chinese thing, an eye for an eye.

You know, like Kung Fu movie? You killed my teacher. I will kill you. Yeah, yeah. You beat up my friend. I would get to beat you up. Yeah, because young we watch a lot of movies. That's how we, I would think.

Okay. So it was. It was with him. It wasn't with me. They didn't beam up, but I said, I felt that if what he says, too, I still have some kind of responsibility, you know, and that's why how he got beat up. So I asked him, seriously, I forgot his name only.

Ever since that day. So I asked him, do you want revenge? He said, yeah. So, okay. I don't know, does it work? I said, I've seen this guy talk to my sister. and one of my sister, she's twin with me, right?

Same age, me and her same age. She's twins? Yeah, one boy, one girl. So I said, okay, I saw, she took off before me. So the twin, she talked about before me. So I asked, one day I was walking with a mom

coming back from a factory and I saw her talking with this guy's spirit, his, aka name, Spirit. So he got long hair, right, real long hair. And buttoned shirts, they're like to hair, right, unbuttoned hair. You could tell that he wear a nice coat. You could tell that he is not normal, you could say, right? So after David, when my sister come home, I asked him,

who's that guy you talk to? Oh, he's a gangster. That's it. And I don't know what a gangster was, right? Okay. So he's a gangster. So as time went on, I watched a movie, a lot of movies. We never had TV back then.

Right. In Hong Kong, no. Now we got TV. My grandfather had TV, you know, those big Sony TV. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, so now you want revenge? Yeah, okay. So I found spirit.

Now, they had a gold shadow now, but their name, it was a popular. You don't hear them much. So, Now, Black Eagle, White Eagle and Flying Dragon, they were more popular with names, right? And these are different gangs with more of a presence. Yeah, they, they, they, they, they're popular.

Like, you can hear them names, but Gold Shadow, nobody heard. But they start to hear them. So I asked them, Spirit. So I found, I said, Spirit, then you could do me in favor? Do you have guns? Do you have guns? He said, for what? He says, he knows who I was, my sister.

I'm the brother. Because he knows my sister, right? So, while this time, Gold Shadow was having war with the Black Eagle and White Eagle, and also the Flying Eagle. So I told him what happened. Wow, this is the best chance. Oh, go.

So what happened was it? I explained to him, my friend got Peter, blah, blah, blah, from the black. because they're having war. I didn't know that. So, but I, I didn't care.

Because I asked my friend, he won't, he went, fine, so we're gonna, I'm gonna help you take this revenge. So,

I says, so, okay, so, okay, I told him the story. So he took me to a apartment, right? And the guy there brought a bag of,

a gun. And then he looked at it and he gave him one. Have you ever shot a gun? I said, shot a gun. I never touch a gun. I let a long shot.

So he told me, Oh, this is how you do it, right? You click it, then, you know, pull back this trigger. So, okay, they gave me one and gave the guy one. My friend had a Dillinger, you know, two bullet, right? Okay, so I want the one with more bullets. Yeah, so I took the 22 long, those days, yeah. So back then, gun was, not they had guns, but not always had gun, you know what I'm saying?

As time went on, they got more. better guns. So, they gave me two guns. And then he said, when you finish, bring it back to me, okay? I said, yeah, yeah, okay.

So, wow, why not? Now, now you got somebody doing the job for you. You know what I was it? So he gave it to it. But I didn't care. So now we walked, I told my friend, I said, listen, you want this, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So now, you see me shoot that this is the first time I shot a gun. So we went back to the street where the black eagle hangs out. And how old, you're 13 at this point? 13, go on 14. Wow.

And your friend still has a black eye from getting beat up? Yeah. So we can't even see. Yeah. He's shooting with his eyes closed. He said he wants it, right? Okay, now he could see.

But he's bad, it's really bad. Bustle-lip and then he... So, no, we... You go to the street with you guys. We went back, like you see. Not too long. Maybe a day or two. We went back for their revenge.

So, okay? I said, you see me shoot, find the first shot, just shoot. You don't have too many bullet anyway. You got two. So before I even come close to them, they see me coming, walking down to them.

The Black Eagle, right? So they went across black. Some were standing opposite side at each other. Some of them moved to one side. And they went under the car. under the car like a man or something like that. I think they tape it, you know, duct taped it and they put out of those guns

and start shooting at me. So I fire all my shot at me, right? Nobody got hit. Now, I'm a lousy shooter. I'm a lousy shooter. You know how many times I shot Nikki one, two, one, two, two, one, two, twice, two or three times.

And I never got him. You never shot a gun before, though. Yeah, that's the first time. Yeah. Yeah. So you can, I think that's forgivable, you know. But many times, don't hit nothing. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I need to tell you about how you are potentially entitled for some compensation. That's right. You may have been injured without even knowing it. And I think statistically most Americans have been injured by this. We know that our food is poison. Many of these companies, these massive conglomerates are pumping our food with stabilizers and gums and other processed chemicals that are illegal. in most other countries, but for some reason in America, they are fully legal and they are

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affecting you and your health and the health of your family and how you may be entitled for compensation because of that. Now, I do have to disclose, this is a paid advertisement. Now let's get back to the show. So, okay, so nothing hit. They, they, I think they fire us with two guns at that time. And nothing, nobody got hurt. So when all my bullet's gone, So I turned back and I told my friend, if we get lost, we go to this place, like close by the school, right? So we discussed that.

And a certain place we go and meet up. When he meet up with me, okay, give me the gun. I got to turn back the gun, right? You know that. When I took the gun, I opened up. There's two bullets. Come on, bro. Yeah.

I said, listen, you don't have to do this. I mean, now you fuck. You got what? You made it worse for yourself. Yeah. Now, me, I already decide what I'm going to do, right? I said, listen. So now, I'm to this point.

I don't have a place to sleep. You know what I'm saying, right? So, Sparra took me in. There I go shadow. So after that, you know, he knows my sister. So he took me in under his arm. So with him, I talked to, I, I scroll at him, you know, try to push some shit in there.

I said, you know what? You just create. an enemy for yourself. When you got beat up, they're not going to beat you up again. I don't think so. But listen, you just went back with me. They don't know you fired him or not.

They think how they know the bullet. They don't see a who. But you came with me, and I fired all those bullets. And you just made a whole bunch of enemy that they're going to come after you. So from here on out, I don't want nothing to do with you no more. So I never seen it in my life again. I said, I don't want this.

I said, me, it's fine. You could say no, right? No, I don't know, no, right? Like, you're not capable of doing it. You could tell me before or halfway, no, no, no, Pete, I don't think I got the heart or whatever, right? Fine. But no, we went down there and you say when you're going to do what? And lucky that none of what happened, like, got shot or something like that.

But you cause more problem for yourself. Right. So listen. You said you want to revenge, but you were too scared. Yeah. Yeah. You want it. I could look the other way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And being scared is okay. Yeah. But don't pretend like you're tough and then be scared at the very end. Because you will, you jeopardize yourself and the person that, you know? And you. Yeah. So I said, from ever since that day, I've never seen this guy again.

I don't know where he is, where. I don't want him when I heard about him. So that's it. And then now, it's what. war now because I just create enemy. Now, because like I told you before, they usually come by to school and ask me to join them. Now, shit.

Now you're shooting at him? Now, yeah. So, and then, now, then. You tell Spirit what happens and then Spirit takes you in. Yeah, yeah. I know, I wasn't going nowhere anyway. So he told me in, yeah, I told you, I didn't have a place to stay. when my father chased me out at the house,

it was like 10 o'clock at night. I went to sleep in a park, right? Those benches. While I was sleeping, the bum, you know, the drink liquor, right? The drunks, yo, this is my spot, right? Oh, shit. You take it.

I was young. I had 90 pounds. I weight the most. So as they went by, and I only had five out of my pocket, right? And I try to last as long as I can with that fight out, which I did. Back then, the time bread, the long one, right, is only 25 cents.

Mm-hmm. A loaf. Mm-hmm. I make sure I, then the breakfast and everything is in there. Yeah. Yeah, so 25 cents. And I last did a quite a quite a lot. I got to fight out of my bucket.

Wow. You couldn't even be homeless. Like the homeless, the homeless guys were like, hey, you got to get off my bench. Yeah, he changed that. That's my spot. So you can't even sleep out. side and piece.

Yeah. So you know what? Then, oh, I go to the project. You know, that high rise, the 17, 420 floor. I found a place in the staircase like high, like 16 floor or something. So usually they don't walk.

They don't walk up to the stair or they take the alley at me, right? So I said up there better than, so I sit there asleep. Yeah. Then later on, Sware took me in. And then ever since, that's why I look at,

my people is like my own brother, my family. Since I was 13, I left my family, my sister, you know, the family. If you ask my sister, says, when I came home, from prison, right? If you ask any of my sister, what do Pete like and what they're saying? They don't know. You know better than them about me, my brother. Because I was in them with them. You never saw them.

Yeah, they never was dumb. left home, I basically tried to diss them them because of. I don't want anything happen with them. If they want, they come to me. So there's a contract on me, too. Now, this is way later when I was 20-something. They had a contract on me. And why do they have a contract on you?

They want the street. That's the gold mine. The top of the hill, you're sitting up there, you're the king. You want to control the whole street. Not that I want to. But that's what you guys did. And what was the business that the ghost shadows were doing on the street? Was it gambling?

Yeah. Back then, yeah. So you'd have a lawyer says that. A lawyer said that to us, a civil lawyer. And working with our house lawyer and house lawyer. They, one day, me, Nikki, and a few of our guy, the older guy, we was in their office in Columbus Circle over there. His office is up there.

So I know he says, you, to Nicky, you could buy a McDonald franchise every two months. That's how much money is. Wow. $160,000 back then. It wasn't $2 million.

But $160,000, $160,000. So you could buy those rent days. Those days, you rent a place, like the whole house, brick house, $350. Wow. You know, those days. Yeah.

Now now, The money is not worth nothing like. You know what they're. Yeah, it's different. Yeah. Wow. So in the time, basically, like you're 13, 14, you live with spirit, you become a part of the ghost shadows.

And then from that point on, it's just living the gang life. You're now, you're doing crime. And what is day to day? Are you, are you at that age? Are you still doing missions and crime? No, what I did early days. I did a lot of robbery. Rob, Bob, who?

It's the gambling house. I wouldn't rob a old lady. I wouldn't rob somebody. that earned money so hard. But hey, you got money to spend, gamble, give me some. So I did, I rob a, basically, there's not a place in Chinatown. I didn't rob the Gambitale, except one, Uncle Benny. You know who is he?

They say that he's the godfather of Chinatown. Oh, he's well respected. So, yeah, that's how scientists got killed. He got something to do with. Scientists? Yeah, he got something to do it. He got his hand on it. Because the place he got killed was him, Uncle Benny,

and scientist has the key to that place. That's his gossip. Oh, wow. That's crazy. So Uncle Benny's respected. Very respected. And so you were like, hey, I don't want to go into his. Right.

You want, like, why are you going to do that for, right? This guy right here? Yeah, yeah, Uncle Benny. Yeah, that's him. He's well respected. And he was involved in a gambling house. He owned the whole street. Yeah, he was a gangster back then.

Who was he affiliated with? Who? Uncle Benny. Who was he a part of? He was a ghost shadow? No, no, no, no. Those are old there. They had two tongues, right?

And if you look at the history, those two tongues. His, he, his brother, his older brother, his older brother had that tongue. He had a control. And they have subchapter in all different states. Like Houston, you know what I'm saying? Like maybe in Boston, they had those, like, branch out. And the tongs were basically like the family units that moved from China or Hong Kong.

They would come and they would be a part of basically like a family that would help each other out. And then they occasionally would turn into organized crime. Units. Early days, yeah. And what it is is like those people come from China, right? And they sell them. Like they situate them with them. Not that, you know, you got to pay them back, though.

Like they probably set you off with money, you know, rent a place, you know, find your job. Yeah. They say, hey, you're from the same area. You're from Beijing. You're from, you know, Hong Kong. So we'll take care of you because you're a part of our tongue. Yeah, yeah.

But if they give you some money, now you got to get us back at something. Yeah, yeah, of course. You got to pay it back. You got to help out. Yeah. So, I mean, that's reasonable, you know. Yeah. You're not going to get something for nothing.

So when you robbed a gambling house, it was be controlled by Black Eagles, flying dragons. Yeah. And so how would you rob a gambling house? Like, take me through the process. Like, just give me an example of one of the gambling house robberies. Okay. One of them, why, we were, we didn't control of Maht Street.

See, Mont Street, remember, it's the heart of China down. Mont Street. Yeah. Pearl Street, which is he run Pelham Street, right? And there's only two gambling houses the most. But Marstreet got 11 operated one time. Wow. Belong to all their tongue.

Those two tongues start off like, they suppose, like what you say, right? Help your own people, situate your people. Because they don't trust American. Yeah. Because back then, when the law is written not for them, you could sue them, you could sue the Chinese, right?

The Chinese cannot sue you if you know that, right? So it's unfair for Chinese people. And so they can't really do business with the Americans because it might be unfair. So they, back then, they stick together. Yeah. So the Tong settled those things for them, you know?

Like, we're not going to go outside and call the car, tell the cop come, like that, because they don't trust them. So as time went on, gradually, Mark Duck Yeah, Mark Duck is an old one too Like you've seen a black and white Movie Charlie Chan

Yeah, yeah, yeah Those days Mark Duck was one of the guy in Peltri He had the Tongue He had the Tongue wall with the All-Lung Marked was a

He's known in the history So Yeah, those days About those times That's when they had the war And continuously to even today. Oh, really?

Yeah. Even till today, those old, the old Tong wars still exist. Yeah, they don't, they don't do that obviously. Like,

if you go back to, you read some book that they had, a fellow judge came to China and sit down with them, those two tongues, and told them to settle it. Oh, really? Yeah.

A federal judge sat with them and said, hey, enough. Yeah, yeah, there's enough. There's enough. Because is it going to destroy the community. Do you keep going? Yeah. Oh, wow.

And the total, that's Mark Duck. Oh, wow. See? Back to Charlie Chan Day, right? Yeah. Oh, that's wow. So what is this gambling house robbery? What did you do?

So, I mean, that's where all the month. That's where the cash. So the one that I robbed, the one that is in the book, we had to take the save out because we don't have the number. So we carry out. And how do you go in? So what's the plan? Who's doing it? Like, take me through the whole story.

So, basically, somebody, we got a, we're going to send somebody in there that, you know, usually that he gamble or something. And, like, give us information. And then, like, how many people is there, basically how much money is there? Is it a lot of money or no money? So, now we got everything packed, though. Now we just plan it and make a move on them. And they got a guy always on the door. to let people in, right?

Sometimes they're not, so that's not that spot. But those guy is not the member of any gang. It's just an old man that works for the camera. So, uh, who go in there? They tell them to put out of money in there. And you're coming with guns? Yeah. And how many people?

You and three? They bet how big? Ah, it fits a lot of money and it's a big. No, I wrote one, Thoron, like Jimmy. Jimmy's, they had a, they belong to the Donon, right? Thonon had a building. It says Stononon. Jimmy, uh, that big head.

Oh, Jimmy Sui. Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. A division tree, right? Mm-hmm. But that, that gambling is not like, uh, Mahjong, you know, the table. Well, if you're talking about gambling houses, usually domino, the team poker, the cards, and those little stupid button. You know, you know, you don't want to say, they use the button.

And then every time they go, a set of four, I set of four. And until the last, whatever it wind up with one. You bet on one, you win. But anyway, Dongwon, they had their own building. I didn't know that they, I know that wasn't like that. So that day, me, one, two, three, four, five. Five guys, we went there. So we busted in.

But anyhow, what I buzzed in, oh, I said, shit, look at this. This is like a cafeteria here. A whole lot of people, oh, man, it's out of hand out of hand out a lot more than what I expected, right? So, we didn't plan, I didn't plan to bring a duffel bag or anything, right? So now we saw something like paperback, the brown paperback, you know, back then, shopping back, you know. So we took two of them. I told them, line up, one, this line, we've got a line, two line, right? I thought, don't play it okay, just line.

And then empty everything, and you got everything. I say, if I find anything in your, you know, like you try to buff them. You know, the victim's scared. So they do everything. So now that we're leaving now. And so you're just robbing all the people gambling, all the patrons. And so you just tell them, hey, line up, give us everything. And they don't have security?

No, they don't. They don't expect that they're going to get robbed. There's no, they don't have gangsters with guns? They don't have gangsters just to look out at those places. And they don't have gangsters that have guns that are, in there, like the, you know, flying dragon that's in there. Yeah, yeah, but they didn't think that, no, they didn't think that they're going to get hit.

That's how they think. Wow. But anyway, so, there's so many people to handle that, right? So I don't lie it up, give me too light, so put two, two paper shopping back there. So on our way out, shit, how come so many people behind me? The older people, right?

Like, the old people, Chinese, right? Male and female, they were on the floor picking up some. shit, I told them this house too So I told them Put everything there They took pennies They did everything

Paper money It got heavy So it busted in a hole No The corner The corn was dropping That's why They like

You know You know You throw a bunch of popcorn on the floor And the pigeon Was there You know They go keep coming Right

So I said Shit what happened I tell you And then I realized They was grabbing those corn from the paper bag I had I just wrap it like that and go it had a hole coming out shit no I got a thing quick so I stuck my hand in there right I threw that my paper money then they go over there I leave oh no way so they so they won't

be on my trail like keep going that's so funny you leave a money trail going all the way to your apartment yeah there's wow how so many people behind me just follow you all the way up Oh, that's crazy. No, they follow me at, not that long. Right. Yeah, it was, yeah. I didn't want to follow me. Oh, wow.

So, wow, you're walking down the street, you're dropping coins. Like, not able to. Yeah, it had a hole in the shopping bag. Oh, that's crazy. It's too heavy. Because I told him put everything in there, right? How much money do you think you got? I forgot.

That one I forgot. If you did an average gambling house robbery, would it be like 20,000, 50,000? Yeah, it depends. Yeah, a gambling house, they have. What's the money? most you think that you ever got from a gambling house robbery? 17,000, 170,000. 170,000 in one night?

Yeah. Wow. 107,000, yeah. Then I gradually, I went and wrapped those a Jewish store. Gold, corn, gold. Yeah, yeah, jewelry store. Canel Street, you know, had a lot before. So then I'd stop.

I'm about four of them. Then I stop. So not once I get busted for those things. So, but I realized I cannot continue like this. Why? How are you saying? There's a word for that. As you keep going to go up that hill, right?

And there's a wolf up there, but you've never seen them. But you keep going up there, one day you're going to meet up with the world. You do so many times. You keep pushing your luck. Yeah, yeah. So, that's it. That's it. So when I was 18, I said, how I'm going to make them?

So I start lending money. Sailat, loan shocking. So what the Thai charge, right, they do with loan shocking. And what we charge is totally different. We charge by a week. They charge by week. They charge 2%. We charge 10%.

Oh, wow. Yeah? You turn your money so fast. Because I'll just say 10,000 is nothing. I loan all my money out there. but I'm not going to let it to one person, 10,000. If he flipped, he go, then you lost it in one basket, right? Mm-hmm.

So 10,000, just to make the juice, right, the interest is 1,000 every week. Mm. Right? And you pile up that 1,000. So you do the math, right? And then you go to realize how much money was in the market. See, because of, I didn't force you to take, let me, take money for me. But, you know, at the same time, who want to, I'm doing business with you.

Who want to go in, like, I got to beat you up to get my money. But what? Right. So I'm letting you that money, right? Because if that's the case, I won't let you the money. But I didn't force you to take money. So I'm very reasonable with my customers, my client, right? And how did you find people to loan money to?

I don't find out. They come to you. And what type of people were they? Are they people with gambling debt? Yeah, they got, most of the money is gambling debt. And they've got business people that they needed money to flip by short period. Like, I'll give you back everything within the month. I need $1,000 and I'll give you, you know.

Those are for small amount like gambling a gambler, yeah. And I'm going to, I need $1,000 and then I'll give you $1,100, you know, at end of the week. Yeah, if he could, he can't pay up the $1,100. He could pay the inches, 100. Oh, okay. Because he still own $1,000. You know what I? Right.

Every, every, if he don't pay off the $1,000, or he could pay up like half, so you don't have to, you know, you don't have to pay the whole interest, half of your interest. But now you got to pay it's 50. Yeah. Ah. So, you know, so I says, because that will, that will, it's not, not a big deal, you know, with the law, you know. Back then, they slapped you in your ankle. Because you're not hurt.

You're not doing nobody. You're not doing that. But nowadays it's totally different. But now what if someone takes like $1,000 from you? Yeah. And then they don't pay you back. And then they don't pay you the interest. They don't pay you the interest.

They don't pay you back. Okay? You just gotta wait, see how I would wait. Me, I will wait and see what he's going to do. Right? And if he thinks he's going, not one, not one person took off. No, not one. With me?

No. I'm reasonable with them because if you have problems, I work with you, in other words. So I try to work with you. Now, if you think that you're going to take my money, that's not going to happen, right? So one way or the other, you're going to pay,

I mean, in the longer term, I'm not talking about physically you're going to pay. I try not to do that. I never done that. So if you can't pay, just tell me your problem. I could work with you. But if you think you get away with, with my money.

You gotta be crazy. Mm. Yeah. I mean, I could talk to the person, you know? Like, I work with you, fine. You can't do it. Bye. I'll take all this injures, but you still, like,

how are you going to pay this back, right? But, yeah, I work with them. And how long did you do the loaning for? Like, how long were you loaning people money? Five years, 10 years? Long time? No, because once that guy pay you off, you give somebody that comes in.

And, so you did that for a long time. Yeah, yeah. And while you're doing this, once you get into the loaning money, are you still doing any more violence? Are you still doing any robbery? No, I don't do no more. You did that when you were 13 to 18. Ah, okay.

Because I know if I keep doing that, one day I will get busted. Maybe bombing a, you know, I, this is a lot of people in our guy. They got busted by the other spot. You is no. You don't know, I'm saying. Right. So, yeah, the chances of it's big. So after you do all the robberies and now you're into the loaning money,

how much money do you think you have by the time you're like in your mid-20s? But it's in the book, right? My godfather, which is Italian. Your godfather's Italian. Yeah, it's Italian. And you know what? When I left the street, he told me already. When I, me and him, says, he said, Pete, just go do your time, don't worry about it.

But he didn't think that he's going to die that soon. but he's old man So I met him In a strange way The book was this So now And my wife And my son

My son was young Maybe 6, 7 My wife told me When I come home She said you know what Nick Your godfather

Well you cannot say Anything bad about him Because this man Comes every week To see your son And every week he comes, he picked a whole lot of toys to land to play. Oh, wow. Yeah, because he told me that just go.

Don't worry about your family. Okay, okay. But that one week that he missed, miss. And, you know, this is true friend. And then when he couldn't come no more because he got cancer, well, he was in bed. He can't come no more. Yeah, he was a good guy.

And so how did you, how does a Chinese guy from Hong Kong meet an Italian, you know, godfell? And a nightclub, my nightclub. Your nightclub? Yeah, in Manhattan. When did you have a nightclub? When I was on the street. Oh, wow. I did entertainment business, too.

Oh, wow. How old were you when you started the nightclub? 20. Maybe. Okay. I was young. And so you took the money that you had got from the business, and then you started the nightclub? No, money I mixed up so much.

I don't know where I got it from, you know. But I said, I bought that night a cup, I won't tell you. Not because I want it. No, I didn't want it. I'm not a drinker. And I don't like to drink. So what happened was that, this guy, you heard of United Bamboo, another gang called United Bamboo. They know in Taiwan they were very, very big.

But in the United States, no. They, after when they, when we got indicted for O'Reco, and I see them in prison and MCC, right, detain detention center to the federal. They came after six months. We were there. this is a political case, but a guy had nothing to do with it, right? Because this RICO is very, very, so bold that, so vicious that once they,

they charge you with it, you can say goodbye. Wow. Yeah. And the writer, I told him, before even they indicted you to the Annie or jump, I said, this, this, this, this, this, uh, this, uh, this, uh, this, uh, this, this, uh, is going to backfire and it's been backfire already.

Then when I saw it on paper or on the radio, but I called me back immediately. Did I tell you or not? It backfired. Wait, how did the RICO backfire? Because, look, this, the RICO intention, was it like this? So it was so complicated with this RICO. Back then, I forgot what senator was saying.

Which senator? But it was passed since the 1980. No, no, way before, 1970. The law was passed, and it's sitting on the burner for over 10 years. Didn't use it. When the senator says, there's only two prosecutors know how to use this law. And it is because this law, when the intention first, this is what they based on

was that. They want to go after the union. The union, the president, like Hoffman, that those guys. Because when they, when the mafia take control of the union,

you know, they would say, that's where their first intention was. But once they start using this law, they use on everything. Man, they use it on a picket line when I was inside.

The people that put us the protesters. Yeah. I said, shit. This is going to, to backfire and then it backfired to the president. Lucky that he, lucky that, you know, he got elected.

And that, he could, he'll go to jail. Trump, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. Look, look, no, nothing now. Because the Rico's so broad, they could put anyone. Yeah. Oh, wow.

Then they say, okay, it was more, actually for guys, trying to, the mob guy, controlling the union, right? Wait, half of those days, that's why they got antitrust law, right? to break up...

Monopoly. AT&T Bell system, right? The telebooker, if back there, they don't have this law, Haifa, just say, my people go on strike. There's no truck going to 95, interstate 95.

You know what they're going to do to this country? It deplete this country colony. Yeah, you can't do it. Yeah. So, I mean, that's why they had those. They want competition. They want, not just you, had control it.

But if you, The union president and the worker, right, the guy that who tried the truck and that belong to you. And you are the only guy. There's no other union. You know, you could have this president sit down and beg you. No. Wow. I'm not moving to.

Yeah, you can do it. Everything, even playing that merchant comes in, you still need trucks to transport. If you can control the trucks and all of a sudden you have so much power, you have a lot of leverage. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Okay. So back to the nightclub. Okay.

Why did you start the nightclub? Oh, back then I had so many people, like guys from, from Hong Kong, like, the street guy, I'm talking about,

Toronto, Boston, all with the place, right? Then, you know what they do? Their life is like that, street guy. When they come,

you're going to have dinner with them. Now, next step, go massage, or do whatever you want, like, and massage, the next step, go drink the nightclub.

And then drink it, till fucking dawn, like four, five o'clock, six o'clock, whatever. And then you're knocked out, and then you go to sleep. Where do you think they're going to go? Right. Fishy? They come in? No.

They're not going to come in for fishing. Right. You have to have a place to bring all the gangsters that come in. You've got to take them somewhere. Yeah. So I got tired of paying those bills because those liquor bills is very high. Yeah. You got a table at $6,000, $8,000.

Yeah. So what happened was that that, that, that he's not in bamboo. Right about that time, the guy. His name is Tony. He's an older guy. So he sent word to somebody that he wants to see me. He wanted to sell me his club. I don't know this guy.

Wait a minute. I don't know him, and he wants to sell it to me. I don't know this guy, right? They say United Bamboo. I know a lot of United Bamboo guy, but they all legitimate guy. They open restaurants. They're not.

They don't bother nobody. So he wants to sell it to me. So one of my guys don't mean that one day. He said, Pete, Kit, you know Golden Taipei? That's the name of that club. Golden Taipei, the guy, the owner, he wants to see you. He wanted to sell you that club. What?

I said, I don't know this guy. So, okay, set a date for me. So I went and said it at that day in a minute. What a coincidence. Just right about the date that I see him, this guy named Wise Guy. He's named Wise Guy. I find out later on. He had a big table, right?

Like put together, long table. I found out later on, that was his birthday. But before that, I asked Tony, I said, you got to tell me the problem. Tell me the truth. If you don't tell me the truth, I find out later on, you're going to have problems. Is it that you own money,

own the vendor money, that you don't want this place? Now, if this place make money, why would you want to give it to me? Come on. You know what I'm saying, right? There's got to be something here. or people's bothering you, the gangster wants a piece of pie or something, let me know what's going on.

You pay off your, no, not the renter, not this, not that. Okay, the rent? No, not this, nothing. Then he pointed to the table, those guys. So, kids like that, wise guy, his name is wise guy, but he had like 12, 12, 12 guy or 15 guys over there drinking. Because those are the one problem that he cannot survive. See, usually the street guy, like I say, they're going to go to those places, right?

Club, right? So they're like a street guy who's going to school, church? No. So they go to club, nightclub. So, okay, if that's your problem? I said, if that's your problem, it's no problem for me. So why we're negotiating, right? How we could change hands?

How much he want and stuff like that. So I was thinking about, you know, buying this. probably save me less money, right? Yeah, you're going to be buying the tables. Yeah, so now, and then, and then, that guy came up, the guy, a birthday, right? Came up to me. He said, he called my kid, right?

Kid call, right? Kid call? I want to have a drink with you. I said, wait a minute. So I wasn't being in Chicago, to be sastati because I don't like the drink. Wait a minute. Who are you?

When I asked him, who are you? Oh, my name is a wise guy. Okay, okay, white guy. Wise guy. I'm not going to drink because I'm not a drinker. I can't drink. I get drunk easy, right? So I don't want to drink.

So I'm not drinking. I'm not fucking with you. I'm not playing with you. I said, so he's standing there and I'm not drinking with him. So he looks stupid. So he's all about faces, you know, in Chinese. So he thinks he thinks he lost faces.

Now, when he walked back. When you say he lost face? Like, you know, lost faces. Face is another word. You just, uh... He looks, looks sad maybe? No, no, no, no. In Chinese, what they say, lost face, like,

you don't respect me. Ah, he felt disrespected. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. Oh, you don't know those words? Yeah, well, yeah, lost face. Chinese. You say long face or lost face?

No, lost face. Yeah, you lost face. Oh, I've never heard that before. Yeah. Yeah. Or lost faith or face? Face. In Chinese, you know, how do they say,

Be mean, meat is face. Bay. So he felt like he's disrespected. So when he went back to the table, I saw, he asked the guy over there for a gun. He put it. Because that thing is a silver gun. It spark.

So he went like this and it spark. Okay. I had a one. I always got. Basically, I always have it. So even in my older day, I always have it. So I feel more safe being that I have the gun. that you had to know.

You're my man, yeah. Well, don't protect me. Let me protect you. I feel that way. I don't have a gun, don't work. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I'm sitting here in my beautiful tent. As you can see, every week, day in, day out.

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Why not just try it? Visit Bluhtew.com for more details and important safety. information, and we thank Blue Choo for sponsoring this podcast. All right. Now, let's get after it, and let's get back to the show. So I have, and I told Paul that they, he told me that's why he sent me the word and say that the boss wanted to sell you the club. I went with him.

I said, go to the pay for him, right? Call my street and had two cars out there. Give me a dirty, dirty rifle and a shotgun out there. Don't worry. I got, I got a gun there. So I talked to The bamboo guy

When we were going to show his hand His next one How much he wants Yeah I agree with it I think 50 grand $50,000 So I agree to that And then that's your only problem right

He said yeah Okay We shok and the deal was made Then later I will tell you this I got to kidnap this guy United Bamboo back to me And give me back my money Because he lied to me

Now after two years Now the wise guy When I leave The deal was made and then I just passed by it, my own leave. We got to open two doors, right? Two doors, the swing door,

and then it'll go to the front all the way to the front door. This is an hotel. It's just as big as a ballroom. The club has a such a biggest club. You know, I, back then it was the biggest door.

It had a booth, right? And then all around it, and it had a table, then it had a dancing floor, they had a band. Right? It was pretty big. So, and I walked and I was going out.

Now, they're outside already. But anyway, that doesn't matter the outside. So he went, went like, when they, then he pulled the gun. I pulled it, put it like his five feet, like five step. I said, wise guy, you pull that gun. I'm going to blow your head, that's it. Then the guy that who, the founder of the Fok Ching gang, right? Mike Moy was the Fok Ching.

Yeah. Before he, he. became a cop. So there was no Fok Ching then. And by the fact, this guy, Paul, the founder of Fok Ching. I helped him out before because there's no Fokicke. So he ran after a wise guy, right? I was a hall, long haul.

While my gun was pulling on him, he grabbed him and Paul with his knee, two knee on the floor like he slided to, right? Grab him tight. He said, kid, brother kid, give me face. No, no, don't, don't, don't. Tell me, don't do, don't. He's, he's drunk. You know, he's, today is his birthday.

Okay. He's drunk, right? And then, who are you? How, he knows my name? He said, I'm nobody. He said, I'm nobody. He became the founder. Oh, wow.

Yeah. And then, he still wanted. On the Rico. On the Rico, yeah. There's body and that Rico. But anyway, poor. Paul is a pretty good guy, though. So I don't know him.

I said, now, who are you? Oh, my name is Paul. I'm, uh, I'm, uh, Fugchau, Paul, Fugchau mean Fulkenese. So there's a province, right, Fulkenese people, Wanjouinese people, right? So, but I'm Fulcunese. And, uh, no, I'm nobody. And like, he, he don't hang out with gangs or stuff.

This is the first time I see him, too. Okay, Paul. I'm going to give you face. just tell this guy, you say he's wrong, right? Tell him when he's sober, when he gets up tomorrow, do not come here after this month. Do not. Tell him, like after this one, it's going to be my club.

It's going to be changing. You let him know if he ever step in there, he got something coming. So, okay, I'll let him know. So, wow, this was going on. He didn't come, he didn't come, he didn't come, he didn't come, he didn't come, after maybe six months or eight months,

I had the club. He came back, right? Then they called me. I was just upstate across the street. I went to an apartment there. Back then, 2,700 is like 9,000 now in the department, right? So I told you, you could rent a whole house 300, 350, right? You buy the whole house 30,000.

Back then, I was paying like 2,700 for that across the street. So I want it because of his easy actors for me. Yeah, I got all the guns and everything in there. So my club, I was facing them my club right there. So, Paul said, okay, you tell him that. After eight months, he was there. Oh, he came with four guys, right? Four and within five.

So my people was there when they saw them, they called me. I was there. I'm on my way up. I saw him. I saw the other guy, you, you, you leave, you can leave. You cannot leave now. You stay right at the fucking here. So I took him to the back.

I probably broke him like six rip. I mean, with the chair, throw him out. After all that, he never came back again. I said, I told you. I said, I don't play. If you don't know me, but people do know me, you know on the street. Because I'm going to say what I'm going to do, and I'm going to do it. So I told you not to, uh,

Didn't Paul tell you not to come in there? I said, so, but he got to say, oh, it's bad. He went to. Now, he got no place to hang out. And I told everybody, the people, like street guy, don't come in my club, like four, five guys, 10 guys, 20 guys. The boss, no problem. Come in with two body got. Fine.

Yeah, I'll give you. But if you think you're going to hang out here, no, they're not going to work. So they respect, they respect me like that, too. So none of that happened, you know, like coming down. Was Wise guy a part of a gang? Wise guy? Yeah, what gang was he? I find out later on he was with the Flying Dragon, but I'm not sure, though.

Because I call Fox, I call the Flying Dragon. Because remember I told you, Onionhead? Yeah, Johnny. He wasn't in charge yet. So, and where about that time, that's where Wise guy had the problem with me. So I called him. I said, is this young guy? I have a guy here.

You just tell me this is your guy. If not, because we was on a peace, like treaty. So we didn't, you know, me and them, we didn't have no war, no war.

So back then, the war was created ever since, I wasn't even there. I wasn't with this group. It was, it was pass it down with it. You know what I'm saying,

right? So like extortion. Probably, I wasn't even born here maybe there I would have it. So he just had it down. But when, about that time,

When I took it over, I try to strain all those things, you know. All that fighting for 20 years, 10 years is useless. There's more money if it's peaceful. Yeah, try to make money, okay? Just legitimate to go make money. So, I mean, if I could, sorry, I don't know. The people that before me, they don't know how to think. But anyway, I was young.

I don't know how to think. You know, if all the restaurants, buy food for me, like shrimp, I'm not going to, I'm not trying to con you. I'm just to sell you what they sell you. Or maybe, or Hunts Point, right, they sell food. Like, orange and yours, apple, you buy it for me. I'll beat their price, maybe. I'm not trying to, like, ban you.

But legit business. Yeah, yeah, legit. Do it legitimate way. You're going to make money, right? But if there's guns, if people are shooting each other, then there's no one can make money. Yeah, because you're going to make that legitimate. I'm not extorting you.

And you buy for me, I sell it to you. That's it. And just, just. honestly, do business would be. So the guy that sold you the nightclub, you eventually had to go kidnap him. Yeah. Why?

Because after two years, I had a handshake with him. He told me a five-year lease, but it's the only two years. Now, my guy's come to tell me, wait, beat, they're closing down your club, huh?

I said, what? Why? For what? No, your lease is only two years. I said, that's a son of a bitch. I shook hand with him. I gave him the money. Oh.

He's not going to a whistle. So I sent to a guy, kidnap him, bring him down to the basement, right? But that's, as a matter of fact, back there was our torture. Torture, torture room, right? We catch somebody that our enemy or whatever. We could take him down there and talk. So I took Tony now. I was very reasonable.

I said, Tony, you could have told me two years. But now, you know what happened? Like lost face? Now, people would say, Mark, he don't know how to do business. He'll win the club two years and the fucking shut up. down. You look bad. Yeah. I said, it's not that money. You could have told me. Now, I'm getting kicked out, right? So I said, I want the money I gave you. Every penny back, but I don't want extra. Usually when somebody, you talk to the street guy, they would add more on top, but I don't,

I never do that. So I said, you cannot give him more or one time, fine. But today, you got to go to the back, so we can't have him to the back because of the street. So he told me how maybe 20 grand. Yeah. Yeah, okay, fine. You pay me the rest slowly, fine. You can pay me in segment, fine. I'm not a little, but you have to pay me that. Why are you going to tell me? I look really bad because in two years I closed.

I expected five years or maybe four is fine, you know. But two years, that's crazy. I pay you that money. If I cannot get the lease after two years, I don't want it. Right? If it was my choice, and I knew it was two years, will you want that? And when you put so many time, money,

and then two years, you know, one, two, three, yeah, then then you got to close up. Did you, did you have to close or did you? Yeah, so now I got to close. So my godfather found a place for me. Oh, yeah, how did you meet him? He came to the club? Yeah, in my club.

So what? Was he a part of a family? No, no, no, he came in and drank. And he was, I told you, his business was, he'd do it on the side business with, like, lending money, 2%. I don't know what happened. I saw like four or five tiny guy

was yelling at him, like screaming at him. And he looked like one of the old men. They don't know what the fuck was he. Just an old Italian guy. He said, he's a Italian guy. But he got, you know, he, he got connection to this guy. So I know. But I didn't know back then.

I just looked at him as an old man, right boy. So, and those guys, young people, you know, like 18, 19, was yelling at him. Making a lot of law in my club. I said, yo, yo, you, you, all of you, get the fuck out of it. Because this man, why are you going to pick on the old man? I didn't know that he was belonging to a mob.

He was a mob guy and a mate guy. So I didn't know him. So I said, you, you? Then one of the guy, who are you? To me, right? And why did that guy pull him back to his head? Then they leave. Where am I?

Okay. First of all, I own this place first. So leave him alone. So now when I, okay, so those guys leave, right? On their way out, I turn, I'll go. Can I buy you a drink? He didn't even know I own this place. So I said, no, you can't buy me a drink, right?

Because I own this place. Oh, you take this card. One day that maybe, you know, you come to my office. We could talk. So, yeah. Actually, one day I did. Me and my wife was walking at play Madison Square Garden. So, okay, wow.

And then my, my, I took out his card. Yeah. Nick, his name is Nick. way back then this happened, right? It passed so long. So he says, well, okay, we're right here. Let's see what happened. So when I walked in, a secretary came out.

I busted the ball open. It passed me in. Who you looking for? I said, Nick, do that guy named Nick? But Nick was in the room. And four or five Italian guy just up a suit waiting for him to talk to him. So just tell him. Who are you?

I asked me, right? I said, Peter. So he went in there, Secretary Day. The first time I went in there, right? So they bust out of the room, right? I kicked the guy out, the Thai guy. Hey, yo, you guys just got to wait, okay? My son is here.

Pull me in. So I talked to him. He's a nice guy. I said, don't worry about those guys, man. Those those sightings guy. So then later I find out. And he told me, my hours with him, said, Pete, he know I always had a gun. So he said, Pete, try not to bring a gun when you, you see me.

Because he could get violated. He's not supposed to be, first of all, he's not supposed to be something like a firearm next to him. And then, especially me, and, you know, got records. They're not supposed to. I think he's on probation. Yeah, they did some time, I guess. I never asked him to those things.

And I never asked him what family that he belonged. The five family? Until I was in prison. And I fired out, yeah. Because I met, the fire commission, that Tony Salano, which is his not the board, Vincent the Chin was, right? Vincent the Chin.

Yeah, he was not at the board. He, I mean, the Fed always thought Salano was. Salano, he got Trayvok, do that. Sikar. He's a good man. Well, I was in the bullpen with it. Did the Chinese gangs and the Italian gangs, did they ever interact?

Did they get along? Or was it just separate business? Oh, yeah, separate business, but we get along. I'm going to tell you about drugs, heroin, Heroin came from Thailand, right? Far East. Thailand got the best heroin. So they call them China White, China White, right?

It's not like the Mexican heroin or Pakistani heroin. They, they're mud. They call them mud dirt. All this thing, I've never seen them on the street. When I went to prison, I see them inside. Oh, wow. This hair, wow. I asked the paper.

This is like a stamp. This is what they're talking about. I've never seen those things on it. So when you were on the street, you never dealt with drugs or anything? No. Well, I wouldn't let my people do it, and I won't dealt with it. Yes, because that were automatically fall on the fellow jurisdiction. Ah, it was too risky.

Yeah, they would have their eye on you. Right. So we don't want that kind of tension. Even the mob doesn't want it. That's why. So you and the mob, you guys got along because you guys were running a different type of business. Yeah, because we don't interact like over money, right? Nothing like that.

Yeah. So now. But back then, back back then was like the Chinese, when they get the heroin, right? They pass it along to the Italian. And the Italian passed it along to the Black Harlem or Stranes Harlem. That's how they go. Well, the Chinese was born here now. They call them American born Chinese, ABC.

So they grew up here. They went to school here, right? They educated here. So they know their friend, they know. Greek, Russian, you know, black or Spanish. They all got, because they grew up here. They could speak their language. First of all, back then, they got a little problem

back then when speaking English, right? They don't trust outside of the United. So the closest they trust is that in the Italian. So they dealt with them like that. And you know what? Those days, there was not an Italian ran out of the Chinese. And there's not a Chinese rat out of Italian.

No. on each other. No. No. If you got busted it, it's your bad luck, you go to jail. But no,

they don't wear out on them. And the Thai don't wear out on the Chinese. No, never. Now, because the younger generation, they get greedy. They don't give it to their time.

They cut them all. Boom, they went to their friend. Yeah. Instead of, they give it to their time, like 80 grand, right?

A key. 80 grand a key. So now he could go straight, 110 for key. Right? Now, they cut off his middleman that part of the money, right? So they think they make more,

now, things are got fucking crazy now. He'll ride on him, he mad, oh, man. It becomes a whole mess. Yeah. Oh, wow. So now, when you're 20s, you know, running the nightclub and you're meeting people, is your English good?

No, not. So how do you talk to the... He understands, and he understand, you know. You can talk to your, to Nick, to the Italian guy. Yeah, and something I don't... You know, I make motions, and he's understood. You know, I know, like, hello, goodbye, you know, very simple language, yeah. I would be able to have conversations with you now.

Right. No. Oh, that's so interesting. And so you go and you live this life. You had a new nightclub because Nick helps you find a new place. No. What about? Yeah, he helped me find it, right?

And then I got the key. And it was a disco. I tied on it on 4th Street, right? You know where 4th Street, where the Hells Angel Club? Yeah, yeah. Right the corner. You're facing the club. So he gave me the key.

And being that people saw me at that club, right, on a 46th Street, right? Then the banker and people that had money, oh, sorry, they want to invest. So they want to invest in the way. So before I went to prison, right about that time. I put everything on the alvelo, the Malina envelope, the yellow envelope. How do you say that? Manila. Yeah, okay.

That envelope, right? most of them for document, lawyer use it. So I put all the money in there. I gave it, I gave it to think, right? And then I gave it to him.

I won the prison. He brought the same money back after two years, gave it back to my wife and told my wife to give it back to those people that pay the deposit for this,

this, the new club. All the investors. Yeah. And all that money, the money they gave it the same money they gave them back. Wow.

He never opened. That's a good man. Yeah, he's a good man. He's a very, very good man. So, yeah, so right about that time, I went to prison. So when you're 30s, basically you live this life, you're still doing some of the loaning, and now at this point you're running the ghost shadow.

Loanings, I always do, yeah, because of, you don't. As good money is not dangerous. Yeah, yeah, it's not that dangerous. It depends how the person settle with them, you know. Yeah, of course. Yeah, don't try to break his leg off. It's not going to work. It's just going to bring heat.

So, well, I always work it out with you. So you make peace amongst a lot of the different Chinese gangs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. But anyway, the guy, go back to the guy that, he's trying to pull a wise guy. Yeah, wise guy. Okay, now, after I do him out, with another eight months, six months, he died in back of my club.

There's another club open. In back, the Korean club, a lot of Chinese go there, right? and a lot of guys street guy was there that day the bartet went up to his table and told him he had a phone call somebody called him on the phone booth

so he got to come out that club but on the hall you know a little bit... The alleyway. Yeah but it's now the street and still in the club and as soon as to pick up the phone they hit him I don't know how many time in the head he's dead. So he had no place to go

so he went because back then First, it had like five, six Chinese clubs. Some of them smaller, some of them are big. But mine was the biggest one. So, now I don't let them in there. They don't let them in there, right? So where are they going to go? They're going to go to the one that they couldn't let them in,

and then the business was closed down. Wow. Yeah, so it wound up, and there's only two clubs left in New York City, mine and the Korean club behind me. He's 45th Street. I'm 46, so back to back. So he went over there, a wise guy that night, the drink.

And a phone call came to him, and they whack him. Wow. That's crazy. Oh, back then in my time, every day or every other day, something happened. Somebody died, somebody got shot, and you got kidnapped, oh. And they put a contract on you at this point?

Yeah, they put this contract because I got to let you see some of the paperwork. They had a conspiracy. So now they had a conspiracy coming out that they were talking about where I'm going. I got it all transcript. I didn't say it. And who was trying to get you? What gang?

Well, the White Tiger, Nikki Louis. Yeah. And who else? Like a few others. And just because you're the leader of the ghost shadows, that's why. Because I had Mahtzee. You controlled Maude Street and they wanted it.

Oh, yeah. Because that's where all the money is. They're going. So, I mean, yeah. Gambling houses, all that stuff. We fought all the way there. You know, we from all the way out, I was good. He was no Chinese over there.

So now I'm starting to hang out with a spirit, right? Because he told me in. We were hanging out in those small bar. It was, you know, Exist Street? Yeah, yeah, Essex. Back then it was Jewish, you know, the Tassel. Yeah, yeah. The Jews are not Jew.

So now there's no Chinese store there. No Chinese don't forget about it. Exist Street. So the original street all the way by the park. That sewer park, they go on. But anyway, it was deserted place. And there was a Chinese woman would not walk there. As soon as the sun go down, they would not walk there.

There's dangers over there. So we started from there. I started from there. when I started from there, we moved a few blocks up, like, to Henry Street, that's still outskirt,

you know. So we'd be, we hang around there for, for a little while. Then we move up behind, uh,

Charam Square, you know, where the Park Road, Chams Square. Okay. Doyle Street is, it's, uh,

it's the Flying Dragon territory. Bell was the Flying Dragon. That's their territory. But they carve their territory area. We don't have a territory. So we slide in right, by the corner of Doya and Chamb Square. That's how they meet up, right?

There's a coffee shop there. So we went there. I mean, we slowly moved to them. Then one day, bam, we just took Pell Street. So Uncle Benny. And how do you take Pell Street? Is it... You just walk in and talk it.

It wasn't a big gunfight, no, nothing. But like then, we don't have that many people. Because like they say, one of us against 10 of them. They got more than us. But you know what? We got hard. We were poor.

We were hungry. It's different. I realized that. Because I didn't, I didn't know. If I didn't do that, I didn't know. So now when we make money, everybody made money, they start to have a this, this, like a lot of problems. We could be together when we had nothing.

But when we start to have something, oh, this, that, that, and they don't get along the world. So we stayed there for a little while. Uncle Benny took us in. And Uncle Benny don't take nobody in those days. He was, he don't want to climb up the stairs, three at the third floor. He don't, he's, he's chubby back there. He would tell me, yeah.

So, but that's his side. His thing belongs to him. Whatever he's there. Go. That's it. Like Trump? Just like Trump. Right.

So Uncle Benny says, you know what, these guys, they control my street now. They're doing my business. He, he went Pell and Doyer. Oh, okay. Mark Thugs. The guy, Mark Thub, yeah, that's his, his, his play back then. So, now, after that, one day, Nikki Louis, we used to be our boss, right? Five of us, then we came to a conclusion after that incident with Nikki.

We don't want to run an operation like he did. Like, like, how are you saying? More of, like, communist. Like, only one guy. called a shot, that's it. And no other guy, nobody said nothing except him. That's it. So. You didn't like that?

Not that I don't know. I'm the youngest one. I had no say-so. So I just went along with them. So, but anyway, back then, Joe, but we, uh, Nikki, right? Nicky was, he was our boss. Right. Can we get a picture of Nikki Louis?

Yeah, Nikki Louie. The Lamb's Secret of Massey, right? That's why we got Matt. Yeah And so was he a tough guy? Was he scary? Well, no, he is a tough guy I always say,

you know why? I see it, so I know he's a tough guy. How tough? Because I've never seen an action before. Me and him wound up in the same cell while we was waiting to go to trial or, you know,

or the RICO cases, back and forth. And I stayed with him in the same cell for a certain time. So, and then one day, I was sleeping on the upper bunk. They was like, you know, what a house gang? You know, like serving food for him there.

They put those cards up there. And this guy, a black guy, and he's full of muscle. He barks there, right? They barked everything. He's solid. So I was sleeping 6 o'clock in the morning. He comes in the cell on the upper bunk, right?

He put on his sneaker. He mumbling something. Okay. And then he was talking about this guy, he wanted to fight. I'm fighting a king Kong, right? Seriously, he's fighting a king con. Or, in my, I barely think you had no shot.

You're not going to win this fight, right? If you want to win this fight, no, there's strategy to win a fight, but the way he's going, wait for me, wait for me, wait for me. I'm not saying that. I wasn't even up yet. I wasn't even up yet. I got playing. My mind was still sleeping.

So, shit, shit. But I never stepped out of the door. By the time I finished. My shoeley, just tied too shuling. They brought him back in. He's knocked out. Nikki Louis? Yeah.

He knocked out the big guy. No, he got knocked out. They put him back in. I knew he's going to lose that fight, but he got bored. He's facing a child that like that. Like that, yeah, so. I mean, that guy was muscle. He's a weight now.

I'm just 40 pounds. Yeah. The guy made 180 or 220. But he's solid muscle. Yeah. I see him always spots. But Nikki was down to fight. Yeah, he went down to fight with it.

Somebody told me, right, after that, he came back in, right? Somebody told me, one, two, three, bum. There you go. Like a cartoon. Yeah, but he got balls. I said, after I saw that, he got bored. Now, that's something funny. When I was with him, right, then I didn't think of that.

It didn't dawn on me. So I was sitting on the bottom bunk, and he was sitting on chair. We have what kind of, what kind of forensic like? The long one. So there's a table there and we're talking We did this discuss about how we're going to escape

from MCC but I backed out I chicken shit So I packed up You were going to try to escape from that? Yeah I mean I'm glad it Yeah but I told Nick I said no I can't do it I will buckle with height

So Oh you get scared of heights Yeah yeah But you know we he tested And I saw him I watch off for him we test But anyway So Nikki

He had a mocker right Nikki, what happened, though? Then he said, not here, here too. You? He said, me because of me, he got shot, yeah. He got shot in the head? He got shot through the mouth, hair, and from here to here.

Yeah. They say he got that in life. Now, after that, I believe, but before, because before that, we heard that, like on the newspaper and right about him and says, he got nothing alive. because there's how many bullet

they got inside, couldn't take it out. But this last one that I sent the guy, right, to put this hit on him because of, I was going to do it. But anyway. On Nikki Louis. Yeah, one hit, one bullet here. He shot out a bullet.

And then. And you called the hit? Yeah, I did because of, I was going to go. So what happened was that? We split. Now, make a long story story. Because Nikki Lou is the boss. He was the boss.

Okay, now I was the youngest guy out of the five. They called me kids. Out of the whole coup, I was the youngest guy. When I bought in, when I was with them, they brought me in. The whole crew, I was the youngest guy. That's how I got my name. Kikki, come here. We're in the coffee shop.

All right. So, Nikki was not the boss first. He came out after the Neron died. So, but before Ney Wong died, Timothy Lee, what's the boy? He died in Boston. They put a contract on him. Could you put out Timothy Lee? Timothy Lee.

Yeah, Timothy Lee. He died in Boston. Okay, yeah, yeah. Let's take a look, Timothy Lee. Hey, yeah, yeah, yeah. Him. They call him a, say Timothy Lee, they call him a giraffe, right? Oh, this guy, he calls a long-necked giraffe, they call.

This guy is a real brother. And if you ask me, the whole crew, who's, Who's the toughest guy? A gangster, a gangster gangster, gangster, manga. Mongo. And Mongo talked about him. He died right about when I came out on the street, right? Hang out with the guy.

And not just him died. There's a few guys who talk about the same story and match. And I didn't know how he got killed. I know what it was behind that kill, I finally on. When I did this book, man, I couldn't believe it. So because I always had that in my mind. If me wore that day, if I had the gun on me, with the history change where I'd be able to save his life,

that's been with me 45 years. That was when I was 14 years old. Wow. From what I understand from Duned, the reason why he died, he was handling the coup in New York, the Cooshaired. they called.

So they didn't have that much people then. So he, and we were starving. We don't even have fucking $2 in their pocket. How we, how they survive, but what was through robbing, right, gambling houses? Yeah, like that. Now, if one gun got busted, we got a hard time to buy another gun.

We don't have, we don't have a backbone. Like the Black Eagle and White Eagle was backed by the all-long tongue. Association, they, they back them. Back in, back in China? No, back them with money, financially, or something, they were in the States and they had funding. But you guys didn't have funding. We don't have no funds.

So you lose a gun, and all of a sudden it's like, what do we do? We lost a guy, he got arrested, we got problems. We got to rob somewhere to get that money. You had nothing, yeah. So we don't have no backbone, the backers. So the flying dragon had the hip thing, I'll go, Benny. Right? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So now while we was on the outskirt, We had nobody. We were moving. So now, he, Timothy Lee, was the boss then, was holding this crew together, right? So they did. They, I don't, him and Lee Wong,

I don't know two other guys. We could find out, but I didn't mind. I don't need to go on that further. I knew the story because I pieced them all together. And this story was never told. So they did a robbery. a gambling house in Boston they got busted

so Niyon was living in Boston but he was from New York originally from New York his brother died he was the one of our guy Kuan Ying, he died then later on he left

he went to Boston yeah he wanted to make see if there's anything up there that he could do make some money he lived in Boston timidly he got busted

with N'Wong robbing the gambler but there's too long two more guy right so four of them around So they got busted. They went to court and similarly come back to New York, right?

And whoever from New York, they came back to New York. The only time they go back is when they go to court, their appearance, right? So now, and by the same time, he cannot, like, support this group no more. They're starving, right? They got nothing, right? And it's not going to work.

It looks like it's going to, one, two, three, finish. So he told him, Michael says, I'm going to go, I'm going to go Boston, right? And that, because, uh, uh, uh, Ney Wong was, uh, offering of gambling houses. Some kind of, like, partnership or, but he was doing some, uh, uh, gambling thing. So he's going to ask him for, you know, a few dollars, so he could bring it back and, you know, give it to the crew and then survive for that, for that moment. He got out of the plane.

And then when he walked to China down that street, he never made, make it to see, New York, never seen him. Wow. They force him, right? They beat him so mad to give some name. When he, the last breath, he didn't give him no name. He died. Yeah.

So they talked very highly of him. I never met him. So now, when we did this book, because Lee Wong died that day, I was there. I was at the club. How he died, I know. Me and Mongo beat up this guy, because he gave us the order.

Now, when he died, similarly, he won't came back to New York. He took control of us now. But we were still in the outskirts nowhere. Yeah. Right by where, we're the flying giant territory.

Doya and Chatham. We were in Portland, and Chatham. That's where we stay. So, they were in the car resort that day. Now, at this same period of time,

Nikki Louis was doing time in Pakistanis. So, there's no entertainment or anything like. So there's a club and a mediocre club. So when I show the writer, this is what happened. This is the club. He said,

we keep things shit, right? I'll see it. But it's the club. So we always go there. So now. And there was a Chinese club? Yeah, Chinese club. Yeah, Chinese singer.

A mediocre's shit. The piano thing. Nothing big. No, nothing big. Small than a restaurant. So he's that, Nidwan came back in New York. A lady called Debbie.

See, very pretty, pretty tall, shiny girl. And another guy called pork chow. Pork chow. Pork chow? Like the one you eat, poxout?

We call them porks out, yeah. We got a company family called itchy ass. Ech-ass. Yeah. When the Pazzaigua call those names, right, That's your real name and then AKA 8, blah, blah, blah. Yeah.

The judge laugh. Yeah, and crack out, well. You got got some funny name, man. They are funny names. All the nicknames are fun. So, lines are pretty normal, right? A kid, huh? What's up, guys?

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that's right, magic spoon.com slash C-A-M-P, you're going to get $5 off your next order. Five whole dollars that you can save and apply to therapy for figuring out your, disgusting twisted childhood of stuff in your face with processed sugars and red dye 40 and stuff like that. But with MagicSpoon, you don't have to worry about any of that stuff. It's all good, 13 grams of protein, none of the sugar, four grams of carbs. Get it today. Magic Spoon on Amazon or at your nearest grocery store. Or you can go to magic spoon.com slash camp CAMP for $5 off. Now, let's get back to the show, you fatty. Now, Lee won't get back with some, uh, two. He took control. Now, look at his age, right?

We got no, we didn't never object to nothing. Because all of us are pretty young. And by saying that he was the older generation, the second generation before. So all those guys up there now, the O'Long Tong find out, we don't belong to the Aung, find out who did it?

The Gold Shire did it. They got pissed, They want $30,000 in the head. 30,000. You could buy a house. Those they buy a house. Not a vendor, buy the whole house. But they want to revenge.

Yeah. They want to say, okay, we want to show you something. So the time put out contract, whoever hit a gold shadow, no matter they're ranking. Low or high, $30,000. You get $30,000. Wow.

Okay. Now, the paper says, you won't set them up. It makes sense now. Even the paper, Boston paper, I could never get a hole of that because of Mike. He went to the arcade and everything.

I don't know how to do this shit. So I said, Mike, I was there that night, right? Now, this is different, how Niywang died. How Niyon set him up. Right? This came later, I find out because of, wait a minute, you are a coached animal,

but you could stay in Boston. And Nih Wong never, I mean, Timmy Dene never get to see you. And the paper said, You gave them the information that now, the paper said it. Oh, that's, a lot of things. That's dangerous, though. Yeah, a lot of things that you can't believe everything the paper says.

But I could match them out. Right? I could put them all together because I, he never, but this doesn't make sense because why you, why, you're a ghost shadow, you, even though that you would live there before, but they know you was involved with them, 30,000? How come, how come you could, you could survive up there? You're still breathing up there.

I don't know that he took the $30,000. I said, we won't. That, I don't know. But the paper said, he gave him information to the tongue. Wow. The tongue sent the hit. Yeah. So he never passed by, I mean, never saw Neon because of that.

They said, I'm going to his way yet. Because nobody knows he was going there. Yeah. So he said, no, don't go to me. We go with you. No, no, no. It's better off I go myself. Anything I could handle.

So he took it all on his own. The paper, the last breath, he never, he never rattled. He never ratted. He died. Yeah, he died. So the paper says that. Newark sent him up. Neywalk came back to be a boss.

So, so that day, when I walked in, I saw Neon in a big round table by himself. And I saw Mongo. Now dragging this guy. Not older men. Not an older man. But dragging him, this guy called Mark M-A-L-K. I don't know. The whole name they got, but I just couldn't remember.

He was an ex-cop from Hong Kong. Oh, wow. So I didn't know what it was, but I saw Mongo Jack, Jack him, right? So I give him help, you know. Whatever if I go do, I'm okay with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a dream brain again. I'm new, you know, so he took him to the bathroom.

Me and Mongo stuck his head and we beat him so bad. Now, by the time we're done with him, him with Norman Street, he lost face. That's what he was. See, that's how important Chinese is. Because that N-Wong made him lost face. That the American newspaper, even Chinese newspaper,

say it was a love triangle affair, which is Debbie and Porktown and him. Is that true? No, it wasn't true. So I said, I said, Mike, the guy that, you know, convinced me to do this book. retired, he'd tell me, I said, mate, no.

You're going to find more. Then he fired it. I said, Mike, every time I saw Debbie was with Pogtcha. I never once see Nihong with. Yeah, there was never a love trying. Yeah, never an affair. Every time I see Debbie, I see Portschap. I never see one time that I bummed through is Debbie with Nia.

So it can be. So now, this guy came and shot him in the club. It's the guy that we beat him up. I was there. So I know. So now, that night,

oh, what a coincidence. You got to believe this, man. It's just impossible. Sometimes it's just impossible. So now, Nihong was on the right-hand side. I was on the left-hand side. We had a round table.

So I always have a piece with me. Well, I'm going to tell my boss to carry a piece. Well, you're fucking. So I want to have it. I want to know how it is. Yeah. Yeah, I always had it.

That was 380 all the time. So now, D.O.O.O.S. With Debbie, and we walked in later on. And then we find a spot where he's directly, right, he's on the left wall. That's like a table. A table, like two-person table is small. So we overhead with a big round there.

Because we are like that. Me, a few of other guy, Taiwan, Or, Mangol, the other guy that was older day, they were there. But if you talk about a lot of people, we don't have to have a lot of people. Right. He's got a lot of people. Still small. Yeah, small.

So we sell at that table. And Taiwan don't like the drink. I don't like the drink. I don't like the drink. I don't like the thing. So he got up. He got boring. He said, let's, let's go play a couple of hand up,

domino or what, go to gambling houses. Right? Okay, so everybody got up. I got everybody. So I got up. No, no, no, no. You're too young to go. What?

I just robbed the fucking camera. I'm not too young to rob the camera, but I'm too young to go. You can rob it, but you can't play. Okay, okay. Then they told me the one. Give this gun to that guy, right? The older man.

Now, this older man, you see him a lot. I don't know. What, Ney Walker, that's the only person he'd be with. And I had doubt. I look there. I always trust myself with the gun. Yeah, you're not going to give him.

So I said, give it to him. Now, he gave the order to give it to him. Yeah, yeah, pass that piece, give it to him. We'll be right back. He said, we're coming back very fast. So I know there's only two places they could go. They cannot go with March Street and gamble. You got to bring, you know, guns down there.

Yeah, be crazy. Yeah. So we'll be right back, right? Show us they walked out. Here come. The mark, the ex-carp. because after that, lose face, abuse.

Yeah, you just beat him up. Yeah. But it was like three weeks later, but it wasn't a lot long. He waited the right time. But as today, I think somebody told him where he's at, but I don't know about that,

but triangle, I know, it's not. So he, you know how you go into a theater with dark, and, you know, you got to take a second to focus your eye.

Put your eyes. Right. You see, you know, everything is. He, like, you know, He came in, like a little bit fast pace, but he wasn't ready. Boom. First shot got a, the girl, the girl, yeah. Debbie?

Debbie, yeah, on the head. Boom. Then I was behind him because he, you know, they had a, on the middle, like this, right? I, like, the. Wait, you were with them? Yeah, I couldn't go to gambling houses. They went out in the city. They were nothing at a clock.

So I said, I was having doubt before this happened tell me to hand a gun to this over the border and you have no gun yeah I had no gun and then shit that was about 10 minutes

I said set up oh fuck I thought they sent me I was thinking crazy my guy they left 10 minute that says everything

there you go did this guy mark Sapphire then I didn't know this was him because it was dark in there so I didn't know it was it Because I couldn't remember him.

So now he remembered what happened? I see all the motioned it. He had a Smith and Werson, 38. You know, wow, the police. The Smith and Werson, yeah, yeah. So after he shot six, he swing that bow out, four, and then one by one. And loaded it again, one at a time.

I saw him because I'm right behind him. So that's why I always thought, I don't think I could save him because it happened so fast because he didn't miss why? So now, pop another 6th, that's 12.

He asked to manage that he was saying really loud, turn on the light. Turn right. Now, one was the light turned. He turned around. He saw me. He pointed a guy in my forehead. He remembered me. Then hesitated.

I'm not going to shoot you. He went to the front door He came in, right? The cashier and put the gun down. So the detector came in. And while with the detector coming in and waiting for the ambulance? So I walked in the knee wrong. He wearing a brown stray, shard jacket, like, to the waist.

I counted his bullet. Nine. He had a die bullet. There be I won. That's ten. Right? I didn't count them all yet. Until I came home did this thing.

I was really fucking. He ran a bullet. Wow. He didn't shoot me. Because one guy, I remember one guy, that old guy, got scraped through, that bullet. That's 11? 11th.

And one was under the wall. Wow. So 12. He ran out bullet, I guess. He don't handle him. That's what saved your life. Yeah. So he pointed out of me,

I could tell you my emotion. I was too young. I don't know. I didn't say nothing. I didn't say anything back to him. Yeah. I wasn't, I don't know what my feeling was. I wasn't scared or not scared.

I don't know. Frozen. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, frozen in time, man. I look at this joke. He's not going to shoot me. Then I find out, you know, I did this boat.

I count the bullet. Wow. He ran a bullet. That's why he said that. Okay. So I went over there. This is the first time I went that close to see a body. Wow.

I said, shit. Now, this is something new to me. You know, everything I see now is new. Because I'm there, like I say, I never experienced anything in my life. So I never had that kind of experience. A lot of things, not just this. Did it mess with your psychology? Or what?

Did I die? Yeah, like seeing these people die in front of you, but did it affect you? They didn't affect me, but, you know, it tells me like, how they die. This is real. Yeah, this is real. Yeah, this is real. So, wait a minute, their lip turned purple. I said, shit, that's how they die.

When people die, they lip, I didn't do that. I'd never do that. Wow. So both of the left turned purple. Oh, okay. So I said, okay, something new to me. So now he's dead. Whereabout when he died,

Nicky Louie came back out from, Michael Simon. So he took control over it. Now, okay. Now, go back. That day, he got beat up that day. About three weeks of most, something like that.

He came back for revenge because he felt he lost faith. The new favorite guy, is involved with Debbie, because... The love triangle or whatever. She's dead. You know why she's that? No, I got nothing.

I told, no, 100%. I said, there's nothing to do with that. I said, now, then the paper came out, we found it. The Neewan made that phone call, said Timothy is on his way up. I don't know. They never say that. Did he collect the, what's your book call?

The bounty. Yeah, yeah, the bonus or whatever, yeah. So I didn't say that, but they said he made the phone call. and sew him out. That shit, it's always in my head, right? Could that scenario change if that gun was with me that day?

Yeah, you could have stopped this guy. The thing is, always with me. It happened that day. They told me to hand it to him. Wow. It was just that day. Either there's two, three guns there, but it's always with me.

I have one. And you were behind him. Yeah. So now, he's headed to him, and that guy didn't go in sight. After that, the shooting, he came out. Now, So it is always there that

Oh man Maybe he I could save him Maybe not Don't know I don't have that To answer that No I don't care

Because he's so He's so one of the brother And he's gonna be Wow So so Nikki Louis takes over Yeah so Nikki came out of jail He took over And why do you eventually

Call a hit on Nikki? Okay Not me Oh yeah yeah Because of It wasn't my war It was not my wife See this is how it went

So now, Nick is in charge. Nick is the boss. So we moved to Pell. I took Pell. Nikki moved. Nicky was there when we moved to Mutt. We wasn't had so many people. That day, the plan is set up.

At 8 o'clock, we're going to do this move. We're going to go in there, Black Eagle, White Eagle, we're going to stump them, right? And then plan everything out. We have shop shooter up there. The whole operation. Yeah, the whole operation. We blocked them in from all corners.

we're coming like the street there's their one side by side corner right two come from here two come from here we'll park them

they're back there's their plan I'm not the board I do as what I told so now that day I had a fever 103

Nikki said oh shit hey hey Pete a kid go get some worse

I'm gonna give you some hill go to sleep for it I'm gonna take you my mom's place his

mother house mother always store downstairs right Candy saw or something like that. So he took me up to his house. I slept.

So now I have a fever. So now by the time he, like, hit my shoulder, get up. Huh? I don't know what the fuck I was there. So okay. It's time, it's time. And it touched me again.

Holy shit. You still have a fever or no fever. I knew what time is there, right? I know they make, they make, they make this plan. Let's go. Let's go. So. Then I pick up my,

Drey they put in there. No, no, no, no, no, don't use that. I'm going to give you one. No, I got one. You don't need to give me one. No, no, no. He gave a shotgun. Oh, wow.

The shotgun was cut, saw off shotgun. You know, 12 gauge. Yeah. So I had a belt, strap around the hole. They drew a hole on that, the end of the, the shotgun, right?

It's wood. So they cut the top and cut the end. So now it's this size, right? Mm-hmm. So, and some of the pictures you see here, Right here in this book, I was wearing a long coat. Like, today I went on a lot. I remember it was cold in the winter.

We went down there in winter. So I strapped it around and then let's go. So we go. So I remember clearly that night. But we walked in my, more than 8 o'clock, we marched in there. Didn't end until 5 in the morning. That's situated as, okay, now we had this. We could put the flag out.

There's a standoff, gunfight. The police came down there with the sergeant, like 30 cops. Because they, right behind Elizabeth, right? Fifth freezing, you know that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're on butt, just back to back. They had the gun shot. The moment they all ran down with feet.

So, okay, come down, shake, and look around, couldn't find nothing. So they went back. Because they don't stay there all the time, three hours in the cold. Yeah. And they went back. Hey, again, again. They came back again. So by the time we kicked all the black eagle, white eagle,

out? You take over Mott. We talk over Mott right now. They don't want to get up. I give it up. They're driving through. They won't drive it in Mott because you, Mott is a such a narrow place.

If there's another car there, you're stuck. You're not going to, you can't make it out. So they drive the Canal at the Big Street, the Arlington, all that, that's a, and start fighting shot in there, right? By the second time they did that, okay, now, we're going to play different games. Because we wait for them out there in that corner.

Yeah, till 5 o'clock. That's when we... Wow. Did you lose any men in the battle? No. No. No. But we beat up a lot of it.

The whole thing is that we want to take over Vermont first. Not that we want to kill them all on the street. That's not going to do us no good. That's going to bring a lot of heat. You just want the territory. Yeah. Oh, wow. So we talk it.

So you get, you take Vermont. Yeah. And Nikki Louie's still the boss. Yeah. He's still a boss. Now. Now, the answer the question is yes. So he's still the boss.

So I got nothing. against him. Nothing. I don't know. You know. So, so, in that year,

in 1976 and 77, in New York, Chinatown, there was not one time only one family or gang monopolized, controlled the whole

Chinatown. We did it. We took Matt, I mean, we took a pound, and we took it. So we took everything.

The main part. And we, we from third pole from outside, But we got bored. And now you control the whole Chinatown. We did. So that right there, when we moved to Vermont,

we already have Pell, Pelsi. But Pelsi is nothing there. You know, it's kind of like a slump place. You don't want to be there. That's why we gave it back later on that they came around, the flies right. No, we don't care. They didn't take that fucking little street.

Wow. Yeah. So we have what we got, so we're happy with. But, yeah, Pelsi, when we move in there, now, and the first time in the first time in the, history, a gang is on both sides. Why both sides? With the town.

The first, like us, me, Nicky and all those, we moved in power. Aguberti took us in the Hipsing. We are the member of the Hipsing. That when we fought down to March, it's all a long time. They were used to be against each other, right? Bigmore. Now, the younger cool, they all belong to that member. Wow.

We are the only one. Everyone control. Everyone's in the same tongue. Everyone respects Uncle Benny. No, yeah. We had the only crew that split with two tongues. Oh, wow. The black eagle is with the...

Oh. The flaggaggot is with the hip-sick tongue. No other tongue. But we fought this part, territory, then we joined that tongue without, we got backball. Now, you know, we got a place to be. Now, then, when we took it all...

Things are pretty good. Yeah. So we're going to send those new guys to him. Yeah. Right. So it's the first time in the history. So then what happens with Louis?

Okay. Nikki Louie, like I just say, he's the guy that could call on a shot. He said no? No. He said one, two, or whatever. There's no three. All right?

There's no vote. So now, we all respected him actually. So this war is actually Taiwan and him. That's the war. between the Hamam. Now, later on, and later on in years, Taiwan wants to kill me.

What I won't? I could smash him fast. But a mungo that he grew up with, the guy I really respected, but it's over. I even went to Baltimore and talked to him. I said, he told me,

you know, just think whatever you want to do. He knows about me. But he grew up with it. No. I said, Michael. I told him, I'm not going to kill. If I could, I'm going to kill.

When I went to the hospital, they only told me they wanted, they was, he was moving thing, but I can't do it. For my own people, I cannot do it. Not like, you know, how you see the mob, if I died, the best friend to kill you. I can't do it. I can't do it. But with other people, if you're not my family, I could do it. Yeah.

I got to do. But your family, your brothers, yeah. Ever since I was 13 years old, this is my family. This is my family. I see one go, it hurts. You can't betray them. Yeah, you know? Yeah, I can't.

So now, Nikki was the boss now, right? I'm officially, officially, is the boss. We don't want to challenge. I'm the last one out of five. I'm the youngest one. Remember, if anybody before me, I respect them. I really respect them. I don't care you did anything with, you know,

as long as you was before me, I respect you as an elder. I don't care how much thing you did or don't do. But if you are right, I don't care who you are. I would not respect you at all. I don't care because it's... In our line of work, you can be a gangster, right? And a fucking rat and then turn around, you want to be a police or a rat.

You can't sit on both sides. Right. With me, that's what I say. If I could shoot somebody, that person could shoot me back, it's fair. Right? What do you mean He can't shoot you? You know, this is a fair game.

So now, Nikki Lewis is running this organization, right? So he said yes, you go. Me? I don't know about them. I don't think so, too. Because I'm not thinking about money. Even today, I don't think about it.

If I did, this book, this book came out 20 years. Yeah. Because I didn't give up this. Three times the writer came out, not every. When I was inside prison, they want my story. Yeah.

I didn't want it. I don't want to rat. I'm not going to tell the story. No, man, that's not right about my life. So it's too painful for me. Yeah. Because every time, even though when, when Eric write this book, the first interview he had me,

no, how old I mean? 64 years old. It's fucking silly, right? I'm fucking having tea coming out because it hurt. I got to stop the meeting. I said, ever. Really? Yeah.

I said, let me go freshen up. Give you an hour to come back to talk to you. Yeah. And it bore down to, you know, that's why I said, Eric, this has, if my mother's name is not there, this book is dedicated to her. I don't want. You could give me, I know, you could give me all kind of offer. I don't want.

But when I was inside, they wanted, the last time, every time they come up, they increase the offer. They said, I said, no, I cannot give you that story because of, I don't want to remember the, they're bringing back. Too painful. Yeah. Even my sister said when I, when I wrote this book, she said, don't do it. She's against it.

Then they know, the son talked to her and she's okay with it. But in a way, I looked at it. I always wanted to keep it to myself, not to bring it out again. But they might say, in a way, it's good tonight. It's a therapy. Yeah. So now, Nicky Lou is the boss, and I respected him because I'm not about money. So now, we're making so much money.

The lawyer was saying we could bought a franchise every two month, 16,000, my 160,000. Yeah. A McDonald's every month. Yeah, yeah. Those days, in the late 70, late 7th. So what is to now? The last time I heard was two million.

Right. So, but anyway. You're making crazy money. Yeah. He was a ball, you know, officially at war. So I was fine now. He got to look at this. We was always with him this five, right?

Whatever he says, me don't challenge him or nothing. That's right. Yeah. So that day, they called for a meeting. They had a meeting. I didn't know that was a meeting. I was driving my car and fiber.

Go out to the, try to go across the bridge. He said, hey, Marco and I forgot, Michael and who. Hey, kid, where are you going? We have a meeting, right? Oh, I said, no, bunga. I just, I just met up with a girl that she lived in. Queens. I never met anybody in Queens. I don't know Queens. I said, I just met a girl in Queens. I said, let me go see her for it. I'll be back. I say, I'm sure. I'm also, 100% sure.

If the way the meetings take place, I won't be back before the meetings then. But they didn't happen that way. So when the meetings on it, it didn't take long. They got up. And, and, Taiwan, Taiwan's boy said, he wanted to order the book. They want to check the book. He want to see where the book called. The money went. With all this money, where it went. Yeah.

So now he wants, he wants to question Nikki now. So now being that, we stayed, him, him, mango, Applehead, and me, we stayed close together a lot. So now he wants to check the book. So a guy named Spider was with Nicky. And he's an older guy, like older days. I don't think Nicky knew about it I mean, of course, after he's seen it, what happened

but he didn't plan it this way. I don't think he did. I'm going to ask him one day. So, it's probably the poor 30th, pointed out of Taiwanese, you know, the temple. You got no fucking, you got no right, and you got in not a position to check the vote. Right.

So now, but in the second day, they ran out of the stairs. Meeting's over, right? So when I dry down from the Manhattan Bridge, going to where the tunnel was. So by about Mott, I saw, I'm waving at me. A mongrel was standing there.

I said, what happened? It's over? Then he told me, wow, this is what happened. This is what took place, right? Yeah. I said, wait, wait, wait. If that's the case, get all the guns before they get it. Because everybody knows where the guns is at.

That's the safe place, right? So they don't, we know, or anybody, anything, they don't where to get. So, they find, the only thing they can find is too fucking, uh, they're talking. Wait, and who's looking for the guns? We were looking for, they were looking for the guns. Because we knew now, that, don't forget,

Nikki's side pointed a, uh, a gun. Right. At Taiwan, boy. Taiwan, yeah. So, now there's a split. From that day, yeah. People want to know the books. Nicky's not showing the books.

And Nikki's guys are like, hey, if you ask for the books, we're going to kill you. Well, listen, the gun don't want to talk out. Yeah, so now it's split. So now, with me, my philosophy is, I don't know how I'm right or wrong. You, we bother. Now, if anything was, it was, okay, go back there and fight,

kill yourself over the most fists or whatever, with knife, or whatever, but you pull a gun to somebody's temple. You wrong. Yeah. Because there is a way, of negotiating talk, right? We can be peaceful and diplomatic. I bet, I almost, I bet my life, right?

I never asked him that. One day I'm going to ask, Nicky, that he knew about this beforehand. Then he knows. So, being that, you're the boss. He took to blame. Don't, I said, go get the guy on this side, right? Mango, me, stinky buck, apple,

and few other guy. He had all his old crew. with him. His old old cool never stick with him till the end, no. So now, Nicky, they took, they found a gun

before them. I said, where are they? They gave me the gun. Now give me the guns. I didn't give me a gun. And then I said, where are they?

I don't know. They gotta be here somewhere. Okay. This is all the gun we had now for right now. Okay. So I took the 22. I get the other one to a nose.

pipe nose. Then, I said, I don't know, just do what I do. I'm a loudly Jewish. That's what I'm saying. So now,

they found these peek into one of the restaurant on Bay Street. The window on the outside is a, it's pretty small like the Jewish Anticon.

Mm-hmm. They, I got peat inside, and he got excited. And those guys, Nick Yang's stupid. So Nicky spotted him before he stuck his in there.

Nick's here. So Abohet He'd see Abbaed Leave the window His place is not there Right He knew

Something's gonna happen They ran out Then When Abohet Went Bayer Street Not even to Mott yet Bayer No between

Bayer and There's a Pella Mott and Elizabeth Right In the Pallel Street His mother In

him In between Between that street, the two street, Matt, and Elizabeth. But it's on there. Now, I was all the way close to the mobile street there. You call me, I'm a fly over there. So I ran as fast as I can. So I empty all my bullet.

They were half a block, but I still emptied. So now, yeah, so now, they went that way. Into the restaurant? No, they ran out. They're coming out. When I, they call me, right? As soon as Nicky sees onion, he runs. No, no, Applehead.

Applehead. Applehead. They're like, he's gone, right? Applehead? They're gone. They didn't, they know something's going to happen. So they bounce. They bounce.

They bounce. They bounce that way. But it's too far away. So, so only, you know, Applehead and our people were saying on one side of the street, they were one thing on the street. they were one thing on the other side of the street, taught that way, right? So I ran to the street,

it was too far away. So I emptied the bullet. Now, I'm not going to run the same way anyway. They went, so I went to. I won't say, I'll push it right? So we talk about when we're young. If we ever get lost or separate, we go to the arcade,

the 42nd Street, right? The 42nd Street those days, you know, they got to laircate. Now that pinball machine Like a game like an arcade Yeah Yeah And we talked about that before

So now I don't know where to go So the only thing That I could go in With the gambling house It's on the corner Or Bayer And my

That's the closest I go So I ran in there With my buddy I empty all my board He did too So I went in there

I took the door man out That he watched the door The people And see who was there Who allowed to come in that? Okay, you dismiss now. You just go ahead. I said, you, I don't know.

Sit right here. You know who to let me. Now, let me go to the back. See if I could find a tunnel. Now all that tunnel they're talking about. You know what I'm saying? There's a lot of words that say, back then, yeah, it is.

When they have war at the town, a hatcher man. If they kill you on this block, they wind up in five blocks down the road because they go to the tunnel. There's all tunnels. Yeah, but now, they cemented. Oh, really?

So at this time, there was a whole tunnel system underneath all the gambling houses. Yeah, you see how many basemen in China Town? You won't much, you see a lot of basemen, a lot of basemen. All tunnels. Yeah, could go different way. So they had that tunnel by the Toll War. Oh, wow.

So the town all those days, you know, is based, you know, You know, the Qing Dynasty with the big, big town? Yeah, those, they're here. They provide the tower. Wow. Yeah. So now I look for the place. I'm stuck.

Fuck. So I looked twice. While I was looking, a phone call rang. So one of an employee, oh, okay, there's a phone call for you. Phone call for me. I don't know, like my side of people, right? They ran to a phone. Okay, the way from you, right?

I don't want them. Oh, this is Nicky. Okay? He says, can I come down and see you? Can I talk to you? I said, listen, Nicky. I'm not the guy you're supposed to talk to. I said, the guy between you or whatever, the guy.

I wasn't even there. It's you and Taiwan. Look, let me come down and talk to you. No, no, no. It's not me. I don't talk to Taiwan, but yeah. Yeah. So I hang up.

I hung up. She was trying to look for the out, you know, the back though. He's called again. five minutes. Pete, come seriously, let me, I'm not going to carry

nothing down, okay, and I'm not going to bring nobody down. I'm just going to come down myself and talk to you. Yeah. So I said, okay.

I was thinking about how the fuck I leave here now. Yeah, I would use him. So I was thinking that a light ball with my head, I can't get out of here.

So I would use Nicky as my, what's your point, to get me out. Okay, okay, come down, you can talk to me. So before he walked,

Then he showed, he said, turn around and everything, show on the people. So they got that thing. Okay, he came down. He talked to me. So he said, back and forth. And I told him what I just, my thought was, I said, why? No, it doesn't matter how bad it is. It doesn't have to be that way to pull a gun to another brother.

So what's that? You know, suppose to me, like, you, you, when you do that, pulling a gun, everything stopped. It's right there. and he said, he was telling me to go on his side. He was trying to convince me. I said,

thank you, you know, there's an old saying in Chinese. Your palm, there's meat. In here, your skin, got meat. No matter which side you go. So I said, listen, it's not me. Actually, I'm the youngest.

I cannot even cause, like, the shot to do what not to do. You know, it's not my turn yet. So I don't even, I don't want to be that. I said, I think you should talk to, Taiwan, Taiwanese, boy.

Because this thing involves them. It's those two. But if he don't know, yeah, that them two, or you, three, solve it out, right? But, no. So now, that night, he tried to convince me in 45 minutes. Then the last way he said,

he wanted me to go on his side. I said, you make it this too hard, you know. He did, I think that's the only part I think he's really dumb. If you are the balls, you should try to pull them together, try to make this thing. But he then was that one attempt that he tried to do that. He was trying to tell me to go on his side. Yeah. That's crazy.

Now, you want to split? You want this to split? There must be a reason for you want to, I don't think so, no. So maybe, you know, they say he's smart and things like that, right? But I think that chest that he moved upon, if I ask him, I think he's the guy, he wouldn't admit it if he thinks so. I'm going to ask him one day, say, throwing a day those eight and break it down to him. I would have asked him.

I think he's going to say, yeah, he made a mistake over there. Because he could have gone to Taiwan boy and cleaned it up and then kept everything together. But instead he's going to the bottom guys or the young guys and saying, hey, join me and letting the split happen. Now, here's the problem. Why we tried to start. He went to the hospital. He almost died. But over this.

So about a week went by, Nicky's crew, right, one side. Same block. We're a causal sheep. One side facing each other. It's just about when it happened. They was no talking. Nothing.

And they were there talking shit, over there talking shit. And it's you and Mongol and Taiwan boy. Yeah, if you want to, yeah. So they want, they were both sides, doesn't want to give up. Later on, after Nicky left,

after we shot him, He left for eight years. He still had another attempt came back trying to take the street. I'm telling you. So, anyway, so that night,

about two week or three weeks pass away. I don't think it's three weeks. Maybe two weeks. They don't talk. They were talking to situations and then, and then what? It's about to happen. Either you die,

he die, or who die. We don't know. So one day, then that incident happened, then, No, like we split. He's standing on the side of the street, his people. We stand on the side.

The both doesn't want to give up. I was there not giving or give up. I'm there to help, you know. I can't know who say so. Four of you would say anything I wouldn't even object to because I'm the last guy. I'm the youngest guy. You know what I'm saying? I got to respect you.

The dawn will not handle me until those four get it first. If they don't want it, it's different, right? But I don't want. But anyway, I don't want, he asked me, you think about it. He told me Nikki, the last word, think about it before, you know, you give me the answer. Think about it, think about it. I said, Nicky. I said, I would have my mind that I'm not going to go a gold war against Mongo.

He's a really, really good brother. So I didn't see Taiwan that way. Later he won me. He won my head. It's crazy. So now, this thing started with Taiwan and Nikki, right? Split. So one day, Stinky Buck was on the street.

And then he was up, he was the only guy there, I think. I see him. And they pulled me over. I came out. Say, kid, come on, come on. I just saw Nikki, went down to the basement. Well, down the basement, when you first walked in, there's two barbershire, three barbershire, the old style one with the leather, you know,

say. I know he's not a time they're cutting hair. And behind that door, there's a, you know, Barba Shop, that behind a little bit, it's a door that you go in.

There'll be small entertainment, but they're gambling. Among each other, like, friend, that, uh, Mahjong. Mm-hmm. Excuse, I got it. Yeah, Mahjong is a very popular game with Chinese,

you know, especially a woman. When they play that game, they hook to it. Like, hell, yeah. They don't want to cook no more. don't want to babysit no more.

They just want to go out and play. They don't want to do nothing no more. Don't ever let a woman play there. So now, he told me he said, he's down there, right? So I said, oh. And I knew that place. I mean, we all know. Yeah, that's just me.

So he's in the basement. The basement. Upstairs is a restaurant. The basement, when you walk in, it's the same building. It's the same building. So at the same time, the same building on the restaurant, side by side, there's a door going. in, right, like residential, and there's a door, it's a restaurant door, kitchen.

So, you go inside from here, or you could go from the kitchen, the restaurant, on the lobby for, right, on the street floor, right? So you go, like, and then, but it's the same building. So you go into the entrance, residential, but the same building. And one side is a restaurant. So in the middle, downstairs in the basement. It's, what's it was, what's it was, a mahjong, like three table, four table, small plate. And how the door to that, to that mahjong from the back, which is the restaurant.

You go into the restaurant, you see all the cook, the walk, but you go down this way, right? Then you would, there's a paper door, like, this is not even hard wood. This is paper door. You just slide that door, Nikki's sitting there. I know that thing, everyone. So I told someone on the spot where he's at, they give me the information back, right? Okay, I'm going to go get this piece now.

I was going to do it. So I went, and while I was walking, shit, thinking, oh, potato's here. Potato is with us for a while, but he was untested, you know. Let's see if he could do it. This guy got bored, though. I'm not even sure about it, could he do it.

So I grab potato because potato's, you know, understand. When I talked to him, I said, potato. That's it. Now, there's something, get rid of it happen. I was thinking about I'm going to do it, right? Forget about potato, but he happened. To be there.

Yeah, I saw him. He said, potato. Okay, this is a serious thing now. If you tell me you can't do it, you're afraid to do it. So whatever reason, just tell me, this had to be done, right. And I told him, it has to be done the way it is. You could say, I got black card in or what. Now, when we go to war, either you or me, or me,

Right? So he has to be dead, period. And not I'm afraid of him, but he's going to come back and be high. You know, it's just pain and ass, you know what I'm saying? So I don't want that pain is always there, you know? So I said, it has to be right. But if you tell me, don't you, I'm not capable to do, I got nothing against you. I'm not going to hold that against you. I understand.

And just got to get done. Yeah. So I told him this, now, you, how do you want to walk in? You're from the back? his head is facing that that, he's facing the front, he thinks,

Nicky, but there's a door in the back that he doesn't know that we're going to cover him where he's facing that the street. People walk down the basement come to the barbershop

and walk in there he could see all that people. He's really, he's pretty smart actually of that. So now, I told him, first thing is to head. Empty all the bullet

where, you know, the head or whatever. So, that's how he got that thing like, now, he went in, he did exactly what I told, but I didn't believe about the cause Nicky went out of place. He lived. He lived.

I mean, literally, he went to the first place. He went there. How could it? Shot in the head. I mean, all that shit. I said, it's almost impossible. But I was wrong, but he was right. He was right.

Anyway, so now, I said, no, you just slide that ball open, and he's like two inches from you. That's it. You had to hit him on that. All right. You, if I knew he's going to live, I won't let him do it. I do it.

I know, because I knew he was going to live and stupid me. So what happened? I could have block him off in the front. I never thought of that. Wow.

I was young. I never thought. I thought that hit was done. Yeah, it was easy. Yeah. So he came from the front. What happened? He emptied all the bullet.

What happened was that? The guy, three other people play with him. Marjong? The domino? The guy, of course him he saw his face. Shocked.

So, he looked, that's how got him there. And it got him in the mouth. But he lives? The guy, that guy don't know. You don't know.

Like, he's shocked. He was nothing to do with it. We was going to kill that guy. Right? But he got shocked. So that's how it. Now, while he got shot,

he, that Marjang, it was in the back. Now he ran, of course, that's going up to the front. Now he got to pass that barbershop.

The little barbershop, the barbershop. But Dana was using that gun to whack him in the bomb. They ran out bullet. Wow. He hit him with a gun. Then he, somehow, something. He wriggled off, and then he ran upstairs. It was in the fifth prison.

And then he survived. That, after that, I believe he got that life. But all that, by night life, they're talking about before, though. So. And then you and Nikki Louie were just a cell together. Yeah. But he don't. I know.

He know, because they brought me up. Those guy knows me. I don't understand. Like why? Taiwan didn't think it will be something or somebody that I'm not. You guys know me. You guys bought me up. I don't understand.

So now, you know what? I'm stupid me because I stay in front of that street where the entrance. You go walk down to the basement. I just stand up there with another guy. You mean that? But I didn't think that. It's impossible. That's it.

There's no way. That's also you. That's a potato. I believe you, but I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say, really. So now, I can say that I, uh, how, how, I, I, I should have believed him because of, he was telling the truth, but I, it's hard for me to believe. Wow.

Is that, is that story in the book? Yeah. Wow. Then, then, uh, potato, uh, bought him down. He was doing state 15 years, right? 15 delight. Potato was. Yeah, potato was for that case.

Right. He went there, that's why I don't like. He went up the witness stand to testify against potato. He got 50th in the light. Now, whatever the testimony you used before, they could bring back the testimony because you said it on the witness that, you sworn to do that testimony to use this against you on this recall. Again.

Yeah. Yeah. You said it's true. So he didn't say it against you, but it. it did get used against you. Yeah, no, it's him because of what he says, yeah, I'm the boss. Now, that boss, you said, we could bring it back here. Right.

There's testimony. They could use it like, you could say 10 years ago. You swan, you swore the shoe, right? Shoot nothing but the truth. So now everything and the transcript and a statement you make, they bring it back to, you back to. So now they bought potato back to try to get me. He will do it.

Wow. That's what I'm saying. So, and then I all basically knew all my cold defendant where they're at, you know, in federal prison. I've seen them or, you know, I know where they're at except potato. So now I was in Petersburg. He, how many years after that, maybe five, six years? And then all of a sudden, they dropped him in Petersburg, right?

I said, he saw me. And then he had a glass, right? He didn't glass. I said, shit. I know he wore glasses. I said, potato. What happened to you? Shit, man.

I was in Marion. Federal prison Marion was Max. Back then, you know what I was there, right? It was Max. That Colorado. That was Colorado. But there's only one maximum security was Marion, Chicago. Yeah.

So they put him there, 23-hour lockdown. because he won't do what they want to do. Wow. He never snitched. Yeah. Now, he said by that, I'm always looking the same, like, blink, like, what, seven, eight, by what?

So my eye was never exercise. Oh, wow. I always read book, too. And then that's the far as I go, I see for three years. I never see like fog or green or, you know, the same shit every day. It's so close. Is that turned bad?

Oh, wow. So I hug him and he hugged him. We got tears like a little bit. Then I said, Potato. Meet me here. Meet me tomorrow. Tomorrow,

I'm going to bring all the stuff that you need. Like shower shoe. And you don't get them. Yeah, you take care of them. Yeah, it was like luxury.

Yeah, of course, I took her some other people. If I know you're not a rat, I'll take care of you. You know, that's not a problem. So that's why I say,

and you can say anything about me, uh, Peter shit is no fucking good. Uh, he's a bullshit, uh, Connor, I could take that.

But you could not label me as a rat. Yeah. I would not do that. If anybody labeled me, I went, I would stand up my feet. Yeah, to challenge you. Because find something, prove it something, then I can see. No, no, he said that. Don't tell me he said.

Wow. Even though, especially that, when you're in prison, if somebody labeled here or rat and you do a lot of times, you have a problem. Wow. You don't face a problem one way the other. Peter. That's wild. So, Dickie, did that head, right?

Yeah. After that, he went to boss. He left. He left to Chicago. He went to Chicago. He didn't come back until years later, right? And he still went back on the street. Now, when the assassination on me, he got something to do with it.

Yeah. And the detective that I went down to Florida to see him, Neil Mariano, he busted me. This cop is a super cop. So for some fucking visit, he has a nose like a German Shepherd. He walked by, oh, you got a third aid, come here. You know what I'm saying? He's sharp. This guy's really sharp, really sharp.

I met a lot of it. I bump into a lot of detector and got nothing come down to him. Even Mike Moyne, the ex-cobb. He thought he could tell you about. He went down there to visit him. I said, go see him before he passed away. Because they're talking about he got cancer or something. Go see him.

Even though I don't like him. But I, you know, I respect him. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, that's his job, you know. That's nothing I know. This is what he came to me when he locked me up. He came down to mine.

I'm sure they charged me with a certain, attempted size a day, a witness. Okay? So he came to the rod, and then he's a kid. He's like, I'm going to give you respect. I'm not going to put a handcuff on you. But you walk with me to the prison. Don't run. You run, I'm going to shoot you.

Right? So I walked him there, right? Then years past why I went this time came with, I did the book. I fuck me I'm better at Neil, you're not going to shoot me right?

You're going to shoot me in the back? That's what you're Yeah So we had a I took it We went out there to eat Florida Yeah

Wow Is this after you got out? Yeah Yeah Yeah That's recent too When we did this book This book is two years

Made no more than one years ago Is he passed away? Oh he passed away Yeah he's a good guy Yeah Yeah he's a That's wild He's very very shout

It's crazy that All this can happen Then you go to prison You reconnected with Nicky Louis You guys are cellmates And then you're connecting with the cop that arrested you,

and that you just kind of recognize, like, hey, that was life on the streets. That's what we had to do. Wow. I'm a man that, you know, with a hold a door for a lady. I'm going to tell you, one perfect incident.

I came home. I came home with the street. I came out from prison. I see a lot of things change. Certain things changed, yeah. Now, one day I was eating and flushing. Get ready to go to this restaurant. got some friends who were waiting for me inside.

I saw it was jizzling, right? I was walking this way, right? A lady and her children. What about me, seven years old? The girl, I guess that's her mom. And she was back me. And another one, right? I came through the door,

the restaurant. I saw her was coming. That way a little while, so what? you know, a little rain. So, let's see you, I was getting ready to get closer, I pulled the door out.

But I about, when she had about like two steps to the door, a guy was running from the rain, boom, bum her, and went straight there, like nothing happened. Now,

what kind of man fucking bad? You know what I'm saying? You don't do that shit, but, you know, a lot of people don't have respect or don't know about how to, like, polite, you know what I'm saying?

I got mad. I left the pregnant woman went in there with her daughter. I was thinking about what to do with this. So now, first of all, I got to find him. I went to look for it,

but he was sitting, he was eating with a bunch of friends like 10 guys. He looked like men's diet, men's day, or whatever. So I pointed out

as you, he's been mandarin. He speak mandarin to me. So I said, yeah, you. Got me? Now, one more time. Yeah, you, come here. So he got up.

I said, come on. We're going to talk outside. Let me talk to you outside. He went over to me outside. Still a little judicial. I pointed to him. Do I look like I work for you? No.

Do I look like I'm a doorman? That, well, open the door for the restaurant? No. I don't work for you. You don't know me. I said, did you, did you see the lady just trying to go in, a pregnant lady with a daughter? Yeah, now, she's all that. Boom, you open the fucking door yourself.

I left them there. I just went back. Yeah. See? I got a lot of problems with me when I came home. And the guy named Kenny called me uncle. Help me up with Michael Moore. He seen it.

He seen a lot of them. That's why I said, I don't want to be outside when it's daytime, especially daytime. So, so aggravation, like, especially a car, driver, I don't, I know we spend, all they got to do, park it a little bit on the side, let's let them go. Yeah. No. They park it where you can't go. Right.

Okay. That's not a big thing. But when I see something like, involved with a handicapped, underdog. Yeah. Oh. A woman, a child. It's about me. But people would say that, none of your business.

Why you, why? My business. That's how I am. I could not see those things. Yeah, yeah, you're doing an injustice. Yeah, you have a code. Like, you live a life, like, especially back in your old days. Like, you would do crime, but you still had honor.

You still had a code. Yeah, I do that. Because I don't get, I would jump on my car. And then, and then, because then they gave me a two-year angry management program, right? In Queens. Listen, Robinson. The counselor is in Robinson. Every time I go, we go and, you know, a bunch of inmates.

No, no. But the people that had that. Maybe the judge sentenced him there. For whatever reason, I don't know. Some of them may be paid to get there. But the judge sentenced me there, the two years. Okay. So now the counselor was talking to this subject.

So, you most of the time when we talk about things like that, we were like make a circle with a chair, right? Like the Indians smoking their pipe. Yeah, yeah. So this black guy, black, he's the counselor. He teach that So Then start the subject

What's that? No matter what it is Just hold down your composure And no matter how bad it is Let the police take over the situation So that way you don't get it. Okay? Now

He said, he said, What about you? Chin? What do you think? Okay. You want to hear something, right? And I'm going to ask you You gotta tell me from your heart, don't lie, don't bullshit.

There's bullshit no use. So you promise you're not going to bullshit. You're not going to lie, right? Yeah. Okay. I will put this incident to you. I want to see what you're going to react. How are you going to do?

Go on. Robinson? You and your mother was waiting on the corner of the street, waiting for the light to cost that. All of a sudden somebody came and smacked your mother. What would you do? Tell me, you're going to hold him down? Did the police come?

Oh, no. Look, I would have punched him in the bed, or stomp him. See? The order's, we stood, like we all laugh. See,

you're telling the truth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Certain things you cannot. You can't call. How I'm going to, there's no way I could control. Right. If somebody,

something doesn't hurt, but especially when it hurt, like your heart, it really hurt. Well, that's my mother. I love, like, maybe you love your father more or your mother.

Somebody you love, you love, You're going to let them get hurt like that? No way. You can't let it happen. Right? You can't ask me any day, any time of day. For my sister, for my, I give him half an arm?

No. Half an arm in the lake comes with it. You can take it. Yeah. For my family. Well, Peter, you're... Well, we can come back at another time, you want? This is great, man.

Because my story will not end in three days. I already know that. Yeah, yeah. We could talk all day. Yeah, yeah. We talked almost three hours. hours now. This has been amazing. So thank you so much, brother. Yeah, fine. Every time you want me, I'll come back. I would love to speak with you about your time

in prison, you know, the events that happened there. I like you. This was a great combo, brother. So thank you so much for the time. If you've made it to the end of this episode, that's because you rock with us. And for that, we rock with you. You are sophisticated. You enjoy honest, true communication, a high-brow type of person that understands this. History is not just dates and names. It is a tapestry of human triumph and tragedy. From the day Nostradamus made his first prophecy to the morning Paul Revere took his midnight

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