Camp Gagnon - Chinese Mob Boss On Getting Shot, Prison Kung Fu, & Scariest Gangster Ever

Episode Date: April 9, 2024

Jimmy "Bighead" Tsui is a Chinese-American gangster who was affiliated with the Tung On in New York City and the Sun Yee On triad in Hong Kong. In 1985, he was arrested in New York City and charged with robbery and homicide before the case was dismissed. After being shot five times in his car in 1992, he ended his involvement in mob life. His network dissolved, and, during the 2010s, he became involved with "Chinatown Gang Stories" documentary project to preserve the history of Manhattan's tr...

How did you get shot five times? Two-time waited and three times on the back. I would see my girl's house, get my car, try to drive, get a cigarette. Didn't close the door yet. I always looked at the side mirror. I saw the side mirror, somebody come out from behind the car. The guy was right behind my driver's side door

and holding an automatic and then finish all the bullet. I still open the passenger side door and start running three rounds. This guy didn't chase me because he finished all the bullet. And then I saw 24-hour Gold Street, owned by Korean people. When inside, I was telling the worker, call the cop, call the cap, I got shot. I'm dying. He pushed me up, pooh, pooh, close the game.

I said, f***. The emberin guys arrive asking, who got shot? You got shot? I'm the only one on the street. Who else? The guy come over. You got shot? Where?

I said, I don't know. You find out. And then use the finger. Oh, you got shot right here, right here, right here. I said, stop pointing my hole, man. So after I finally, I got shot five time. They do a surgery for me, and next, I got up, the whole body's wrapping like mum.

So when I got the doctor come by and now I said, will I be recovering? The doctor said, yeah, you'll be okay. But one thing I have to tell you, I said what? You still got a bullet inside. I said, what? Yeah, yeah, you still got a bullet inside. But that body is going to stay forever until you die.

I said, where? And it's right here. Shot right here. The bullet is inside the bone. They cannot get out. And were there a lot of fights? Almost every day. And you had to fight?

No, they don't mess with me. Because I was aware of it. for murder. My head. Big Head. How you doing? I'm excellent, brother. How are you? Pretty good. Thank you so much for joining me, man. I really appreciate it. You have... My pleasure.

You have a fascinating life, a fascinating story. You think so? I think so. I think so. I think so. I think there's a lot of morals that we can draw. If you change the position, you won't like it. That's interesting. That's interesting. You can explain why as we go through the tale. So you have... You've done quite... You've done quite a lot of things. You were a general in the triads. Former general, no longer involved.

You were shot five times. You survived that. You spent time in Rikers Island. I got shot five times. But one incident, I got shot five times. Okay. Let's just start at the very beginning. How did you get involved with Chinatown gangs?

Chinatown gang. Okay. I was, you know, going here since 1978. You moved here from Hong Kong? Yes. Okay, my whole family moved to here. And the first place we staying is China Town. But at first, you know, I try to, you know, go to school, be a nice kid.

After school, go home, do a homework or go to the factory, help my parents to work. But instead, something happened. Because at that time, the Chinatown gangster is like, Like, I can say that they control the whole China. Okay. So the school I'm going to is right inside the China. So, like, every time we go into school, a lot of gangsters stand outside the school and watching us. Oh, really?

They are choosing which people they want, they want to reclure you, or they want to, you know, whatever they want to recruit you from their group. And of course they want to go bigger and bigger. So they want a lot of people. So they are choosing people. They're picking people every day. And can you tell that they're gangsters? How can you tell? What do they look like?

At that century, it's easy can tell. Long hair, baggie pen, army jacket. Everybody wear army jacket. It's like uniform. Easy can tell. Yeah. Okay. You know they're against it.

So I got paid. And me and my jacket. a couple of my class made, okay, we got paid. When we're off school, when we step out of school, they stop us and asking us, like, we have to join their group. If we don't, we cannot go to school and say, what the fuck, who's this guy? At first, I don't know anything about gangster in Chinatown. Did you even know that there were gangs in Chinatown?

Because I just from Hong Kong. How's your, I know they have gangster in China. I know they have gangster. They are triad in Hong Kong. Right. Even though I'm real young because the location I live at in Hong Kong is full of triad and, you know, those kind of people. So, but in New York, that's the very string pace. I was like when I first hear, it's like everything was strange to me.

Okay. So I don't know they're gangster in the Chinatown. And when I first got contact with them. They're asking us, like, you have to join our gang or you cannot go to school. And we don't know what to do. First, we don't know what to do. And then, for the first time, you just ignore them. We didn't say anything.

We just walked away. And they didn't chase us too. They just, you know, stand there watching us. So, like, we thought, like, nothing happened. Okay? We just walk away, right? Even though the second time you saw them, you walk away. But instead, like, I forgot, like, how long afterward.

And this time, they stopped us again. They stopped us again when we, like, off school. When you step our school, they stop us. And then they're asking us, like, do you guys make your decision yet? You have to join us, or you cannot go to school. And we all say, no, no, I'm not joining you. Because I don't know you. Why I have to join you?

I don't know your group. We don't know nothing about your group, right? So they say, okay, you don't want to join us. You have to pay us to go to school. I forgot how much, like $10 a day or whatever. But back then $10 is like a 13-year-old kid. It's like $1.25 for a take-out order. Yeah, exactly.

And I forgot how much, though. And then they say like, okay, start next week. I remember as they say, like, start next week. You guys, if you don't join us, you have to pay us. Okay, we will be here waiting for you guys. Hey, what's up, guys. Sorry to interrupt this amazing program, but I need a little bit of help. If you're watching this on YouTube, you can probably see our subscriber number right down here.

And if you're able to, it would mean the world if you could subscribe. That is the best way to support this show. Because when you subscribe, I'm able to show it to potential guests or to different brands and stuff like that. And it really, really helps grow the show, get us cooler guests, have cooler conversations, and it helps everything so, so much. So if you don't mind, thank you so much. Let's get back to it. And do they tell you what will happen to you if you don't pay?

Oh, that time they already pulled out a gun, pointing us. Okay. Oh, shit. They pull out a gun. They stop us, and then they push us inside this factory building, the lobby. Okay, and then they pull out a gun. They already pull our gun. and asking us, you guys want to join us?

We say no, okay, and you have to pay us. You say no with a gun pointed at you? No, I say no. I still say no. Wow. Okay. So, and then they say, like, starting next week, like, when we go to school, we have to pay them first to go inside. They were waiting for us outside of school.

So at first, my friends was thinking, like, go home tell their parents. And I was telling them, what used? Our parents got to work every day, morning and night time. They don't have time to pick us up. Right? And even though they knew it, what can they do? They can't do anything.

Okay? They have to work. Your parents are working full-time in a factory? Yeah. Yeah. Six days, almost six, sometimes seven days. When we first beginning, yeah, almost like, two days off per month.

Oh, wow. Yeah, only one day off, like, every two week like that. So I was thinking it's no use. Like, why bother our parents? I don't want to bother my parents for this, right? What about teachers? Would you tell the school? The teacher even scared them.

Oh, wow. The teachers are afraid. They were scared against her, too, the teacher. The teacher won't do anything. The best thing the teacher go do, go to call the cop. Yeah. But bad damn the cop and the gangster, they're almost same thing.

Oh, wow. It's no different. So the police and the gangs were in some way connected? I'm not saying everybody. I'm not saying every police, okay, but some of them. Some. They get paid, right? After all I find out they get paid, okay, by the gambling house.

So you can't go to your parents. The teachers are like, hey, pay them the money. Are you stupid? And then the police, they're in on it. Yeah. And then so. We are thinking about what we're going to do. And then one of my friends, his name is Michael.

Okay. And he was saying that, like, why we go to ask his cousin for help? So I were asking, who's your cousin? You think he can help us? And he said, definitely he will help us. And he could and we'd be okay. So we got no choice. So we and then he bring us to across the street from the school.

That's a coffee shop. Back then there's a coffee shop over there. And he said this coffee shop is owned by my cousin. So we went inside and this Yantu come out. And after I found out that it's Michael's third one, the third one, the third one, the third cousin. So we tell them what happened, we tell him what happened. And then he know what happened. And then after he know what happened,

he went back inside office making a phone call. And a while later, and then he come back out, tell us that everything will be good. You guys just normally go to school. Okay, nothing will happen to you. We would take care of it. That's it. Wow.

And then tell us to go home. So, okay. And then we went home. And then until the next week start, and we go to school, morning, nothing happened. because, you know, morning time is no gangster. They never get out. Gangster is like an afternoon profession.

Yeah, even me now, morning time, don't call me. Same thing. So that day, after school, we saw the same group. When I still inside, I didn't step out yet, and still inside the school. I looked out, and then I saw the same group people stand right there already. Are you nervous? A little bit.

Yeah. Actually, a little bit, because that time was only 13. Okay, so I've been for all my friends come out and then I'm saying that like, what are we going to do now? We go step out or what? And then Michael say, yeah, why not? See what happened. So me and how many people, me and another four, I think it's like five people together and we step out of the school. And they are, the group or stand in the left-hand side.

like this, okay, this way. So as soon as we step out of school, we go to the right side, okay? But they're chasing us. They ran over. So, and then we start to one. You start to, you know, we start to, you know, get away with them.

And they are yelling at us, they stop, you guys stop, okay? And when the time, they almost catch up and other group coming from the right side. running over and then stop us. And at that time, I don't know who's that good at first time. It's like never see their face before. So one guy asking, who's Michael? And then my friends come out, yeah, I'm Michael.

And then he said, oh, Kufthus sent me here. Then after I know Kuford is his oldest cousin. Okay. And then the guy. saying that okay you guys stay here just don't leave stay here and then at the other group you know the group want us to join they stopped they saw that the other group they stopped and then one guy from a Q1 first school went over their group they have a conversation but I don't know what they're talking about

like a couple of minute later and the first good just left yeah and then this guy come back and tell us that yeah everything okay Okay, okay, they won't come to battle you no more. Wow. That's it, right? So I was asking Michael and, should we, you know, go to your cousin's place, and you say thank you to him, right? He's helping us for this, of course, like, we have to say thank you at least, right?

So we're asking the people from, you know, the good people and you want to see Krippert. And then one of the. The guy said, okay, let me make a phone call first. And then he went into the coffee shop, make a phone call, and then come back out. And then say, yeah, Clifford said, okay. So you guys follow me. And that's the first time I went up to the association. Wow.

But they don't want the association. And so that's the first time you meet Clifford? Yeah. And what was that meeting like? We just went up there. And then the association is like social club. But it's like a, let me say it's like 2,000 square foot. A lot of people inside paying MJ, paying car, watching TV, a lot of people.

And that's an office inside. And then the guy brings us to one of the office, and Clifford is sitting inside. And what does Clifford look like? What is he doing? Can you paint the picture? He's like an Egypt businessman. For me, for my first incident. He doesn't even look like a gangster.

He wears suit, tie, short hair, okay, low mustache, clean, look like regular businessman. Okay, you can tell like he's like, he's like a big boss, you can say that. He's like a big boss for the, you know, the association like that. So you went inside, you say, thank you.

And then Kiffa said, the group want you guys to join, they belong to the Gold Shadow. that's a gang called Gold Shadow, gold shadow in Chinatown. The Ghost Shadow? Yeah. Wow.

And he was telling us that, but this thing won't happen anymore because he takes care of everything for us. Okay, you guys just go to school and just don't make trouble. If somebody want, you know, make trouble with you guys, let him know he would take care of it. and we say thank you, right? And before we leave, and he's asking us, like, you guys like to play soccer? So we say, yeah, yeah, we pay soccer, we pay basketball, right?

And he's saying that he has a soccer team, and do we want to join? Okay, it's a regular soccer team. You know, they have a contact with other group, like every month, like, just like a regular sport team. Okay, it's nothing about gangster. You never say anything about gangster, nothing. So we joined a soccer team and then we keep like almost like three times a week, four times a week after school.

We went to practicing soccer in the park. So at that time, we met a lot of other people. I can say that a lot of people from the association, young people. So we pay together every day. And it's just casual. It's just a social game. Wow. And now that first gang that was trying to extort you, what group were they a part of?

Do you know now? Ghost Shadow. Yeah, they were Ghost Shadow. And then Clifford's group was... Teo, Tongan. That's the Tongan. Yeah. Ah, I see.

Okay. After I found out that the three biggest gangsters in Chinatown control the whole Chinatown. It's a fire dragon... Flying Dragons. Ghost Shadow... Ghost Shadow. And Tongan. Got it.

Yeah. So the group we put in is the Gold Shadow Shadows. shadow. Wow. Yeah. Um, but anyway, they get along. The Tongue and go shadow, they get along. And that's how they were able to keep you guys safe. Yeah. And so we just practicing soccer every day. Like, even though we don't have to practice that day and we still, like, after school, we go out to the association. Because we got nothing to do. Right. You're 14. You're hanging out. Yeah, yeah. We're hand out over there. Okay. Watching people paying MJ.

paying card, and then we know how to pay card, how to pay MJ, and we pay over there. And MJ is Meijon? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you good at Meijon? Before. Now, long time, ever paid? Wow, it seems like almost 10 years. Oh, wow.

Yeah. So we hand out in an association every day. And at first, nothing happened. You know, we got to pace their hand out, and sometimes they even bought us to dinner. They brought us to a watching movie. There's no crime happening. No. And then when does it start to turn into more crime?

After I, let's see, start to school from September. After like April, something like that, I think it's like six, seven months, nothing happening. And after six, seven months, suddenly one thing happened. And that day I was like, I think that day we don't have to go to school. We can. But we are already saying that like tomorrow we get after we get up, we met in the association. So when I got up, I went up to the association at that time. Michael's there and a couple of my friends there.

And we pay Madrid over there. So we stopped paying Madrid. And after we finished. And we try to, you know, go outside and take something, find something to eat. And then we start to look everybody. And we find out, we missing one guy. So, he's that? My friend's name is Alan.

Okay. And he lived like two blocks from me. So when I'm up to an association, he's there already. I saw him stare. And when we first go up there, everybody saw Alan's there. But when we finished MJ, he's missing. So we are thinking like even though he left, he have to tell us first. He won't just laugh like that.

So we are searching the association, upstairs basement, cannot find him. And we are thinking where he went, right? So suddenly, Cliff come in. I think it's like two or three o'clock afternoon. And then Cliff will come up. And then he come to us and then asking us like, are you guys waiting for Arlen? I say, yeah, he's missing. He's here before, but I don't know what happened.

We don't know what happened. He's missing right now. And Kiefer's saying that, nah, you guys don't have to wait for him. He just got murder. His body just found in Freshional Mill Park. The cop just find his body. Fuck. So we are shocked.

We are, what? He's murder. We just saw him this morning Because when we go up to an association, he's there So where he get murder at? So Clifford saying It's long story You guys can go home first

Maybe I can tell you guys later Okay But we refuse it We want to find out what happened Because we are real close We like we stick together every single day Okay We go to school together

We pay together We do everything together So we are upset, okay? We are all upset. Yeah, of course. We want to find out what happened, why he got killed. So Qiff said, you're sure you guys want to find out? And we say, yes, at this we have to know, like, what happened?

Who killed him? Okay, at least we know. So Qifers tell us everybody, go inside the office. And then he started to tell us the story. Tell us that, like, China Town, who is controlling the Chinatown, That's three group, okay, T.O., of course, one of the group, Goh Shadows, controlling Marstreet area, Fire Dragons, controlling Pale Street area.

And T.O. got beef with Fire Dragon, always. Even though when they, you know, back then, like, early than me, like, when they first start the gang, they already got, you know, it's got something to do with the fire dragon. dragon. So they always, you know, fighting each other. And he, at that time, he didn't tell me why Arlen Gush, you know, got murder. He just taught us that they thought Arlen is one of the member in Tongan, but which is not. We had only the member for the soccer team. Right. Not the member of the gangster. Right. You hang out at the social club, but you're not initiated into the game. Yeah, but the fire dragon, you know, they didn't know.

And they saw Ireland on Pell Street this morning. And they kept up him, shot him on the head, and then thumb his body on the freshman milk part. What the fuck? So we are, at that time, we are like shot, we are real piss. And we have a lot of questions. why he's what he's doing in Pell Street. Who shot him?

Okay, we have a lot of questions. So we're asking Clifford, like, can we take a revenge? We cannot let my friends just die like this for nothing, right? And Clifford asking us, like, you sure you guys want to take a revenge? This, he, at the beginning, he always taught us with you guys joining the gang, the result will be 50% you go to end up in jail. 50% you're going to get murder. And you guys, you make up your mind,

you sure you want to join again, you guys. So by that time you have like four people, four people left. So we all say, yes, we're going to take revenge. We must take a revenge, right? So Krippa said, okay. tell us to give us the address in China, that's an address in China, telling us to go there at nighttime.

I forgot about time, okay? We go meet over there. And then by that time, I went over there and then Clifford come over and bring us to upstairs an apartment. So inside an apartment, when I first walked inside the apartment, like a big table on the table that's a Chinese gas starchon over there and a lot of ritual

thing okay you can say old century the Chinese you know old tradition the I don't know how to say it in English okay but a lot of things over there like candles candle everything incense yeah yeah incense candle candle and fly even though I summarize. Okay? And Krippel say, okay, you guys make up your mind. We say yes, okay. And then he threw some ritual,

tell us, just stand over there and follow his word. Whatever he said, we just, you know, we just say it out. And after the ritual, and then he gave us a lot of lumber, everybody got lumber. And then we become an original Tongan gangster. Wow. And after we, you know, after we become a gangster and then the first thing we didn't thought like make money from the grand burning house or whatever, the first thing come to my mind is to revenge.

Okay, you go get the fire dragon. I need a gun, I need firearm. Keeper say, no, no, no, no, you guys not yet. You guys don't know how to use the firearm. You guys don't, you know, he cannot give us the weapon yet until we have to get training. Okay, and then starting next day and other old member from the Tongan,

he started training us every day. Thought us how to use the gun, how to shoot the gun, how to self-defense, how to fight, how to fight. We got the training, like, long stop, like, pretty long time. Almost every day. When this guy come up, we have to train. Wow.

So you're going to school in the daytime? Yeah. And then you leave school. That time, you drop out already. Oh, wow. Yeah, because after we become a real gangster. And at that time, school is like, by them, it's not too many Chinese people. I don't tell you that.

It's not like right now. Now, Chinatown, well, in the Chinatown, you see all Chinese people. Like, back then, there's not many Chinese people. It's like trendy, I can say, like, 30 by 100. Oh, really? Yeah. So even in the Chinatown school, it was all other ethnicities and races? Most the races is black, Spanish.

Yeah, most of the race is black, Spanish. Black and Spanish. Got that. Yeah. So, you know, how ways this is this? Bad bad damn. You know, when first we go to school, you always, you know, they always say some bad word. Like, they saw you.

They say, Chinu, come here. Chin chung, you come here like this, right? So at first, like, we didn't say anything. But after we become a gangster, like, we cannot stand that no more. We start to fight back. Oh, really? We start to fight back every day. Almost everything in the cafeteria.

You got fight everything in the cafeteria, even though a shooting in the capitol. Oh, really? What happened? It's not that we want to drop out school. It's that the school don't let us go in anymore. Oh, wow. They saw our good people, they won't let us in. So you guys...

Even though we study over there, and the... But back then, they don't have a security for the school. Okay? They only have a, what, build up. So you guys are fighting every day once you become gangsters. People are saying shit to you, they're saying racist stuff, and you immediately just go at it. What happened in the shooting day? You're shooting the black guy.

Oh no, what happened? He said something? He grabbed this guy. Actually, this guy is not our friend, but he's Chinese. And he was having a lunch in the cafeteria and this black dude just... took his lunch and walk away. So this guy was crying over there. And then we saw them.

We asked him what happened. So he told us the story, and then we asked him, who's the guy, right? And then he pointed out the guy. And you just go over there, give him back. I was telling him, give him back the lunch. Back to say, what, what are you going to do? Okay. You want to get beef with me?

I could have fuck you up like this, right? So we are like, what, this guy want to, you know, get something with us, get busy, right? So one of my friends just pulled out a gun, fuck you. But now he didn't pretend to, you know, shoot him. He just pulled out a gun, swimming on the ceiling. Bump, you want to get fired? What? Yeah.

And the guy gave the food back? No, he ran. Wow. He went. That's crazy. And so. We didn't get arrested. Wow. But you got kicked up.

The cop don't even care. Okay, I tell you, nobody got shot. Okay, they don't care. But back then, they don't care. Wow. Even though we, you know, we are shooting each other in the street, the cops over there, as long you didn't shoot any American people, you're Asian shooting Asian people, they don't care. Wow. But then it's like this. I walk in China Town, right? Like, after that, after a while, I become, you know, regular member of Tongan. And every day I have to carry gun.

Sometimes I carry two pieces, not only one piece. So the gun handles, like summertime, we're always wearing tight jean, tight shirt. Fashionable. Yeah. But the gun is like putting inside the shirt. So the handle is pulling out. Yeah. And then the cops saw me.

Come over and say, Jimmy, come over. I say, what's up? Pull up your shirt. Cover it. No way. Yeah. They just didn't even pull up my shirt. Cover it.

The cops didn't even give a shit. They were just like, yeah. Wow. They get paid. Wow. They get paid from the gambling house. So they don't want to cause trouble with the gambling house. They know that you're affiliated.

So if they arrest you or give you a hard time, then they're going to. Yeah. Then the gambling house would get them a hard time. Wow. So they know they can. You know, by back then, they're sad. I think they get paid like. So, Bethan is like, what, four, 500 a week from the government.

It's like $2,000 a month. Betham, it's like $20,000 a year, something like that. But the gambling house? Gambling house paid them at least like $1,000 a week. So who's the real boss? Yeah. Is it the government or is the gambling house? Yeah.

Wow. So they knew they can't mess with you. So they just go, hey. They won't. They just telling us that, okay, don't hit the interesting guy. Okay. That's it. Don't hit an innocent guy.

Yeah. Wow. Okay. Didn't care. So every day you're going to school, you're fighting, and then you're going back and you're doing training. Yeah. It's easy. You're searching the news by back then.

The old news, like every time a shooting in China towns, it's all with they put up on the news because a innocent guy got killed. With only a gang fight. Never on the news. Wow. Because at my times, like, we always, almost like, we're almost shooting like always one, twos a week. One time, two times a week. Like, it's normal.

Yeah, you say only one or two times a week. Yeah, normal, normally, okay? Wow. But as long as we didn't hit anybody, interesting people, and people don't even know. Wow. Because they've never put up the news. Just a different time.

And I guess it was kind of like that with a lot of different gangs. Like, you know, within black gangs or Latino gangs, like as long as it was gang affiliated, it wouldn't be a big story. I think so. I think so, yeah. Wow. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because it's 2024. And it's time to talk about something important.

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and you're growing up in the ranks and you are kicked out of school for fighting. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I kick off from the, actually I finished the junior high school. but for the high school they won't let me in Wow Okay And what do your parents think Do they do they

Do they know Or are you kind of keeping it a secret from them They knew They knew Yeah Because Seems I'm Seems I'm

Since I finish 7th grade I never go back home You didn't go back home Yeah I'm outside Where did you sleep At first We sleep in the association

In the basement After we have money And then we went to our apartment And we have our own apartment When you're 16, 17 years old Not not 16, 15 Wow And you were just renting it from other people

That were in the association No We just We don't have an apartment We just sleep over the association Wow Because the association is very huge Very big

A lot of space Basement The basement even have a ping-ball machine got pool table, got ping-pump table, and a couple rooms. So we can sleep inside the basement. Oh, wow. Without paying rent. That's pretty good.

But after we make some money for kids, like, you know, make some money for kids, like, for kids 14, 15, make like a couple hundred weeks. And how are you starting to make money? Working in a gambling house as a security. So talk to me about these gambling houses. Like, this is a foreign concept to me. Like, how do these gambling houses? How did they work? Who ran them and who would come into them?

Okay. Okay. People who open the gambling house and people who operating the gambling house is different people. People who operate in a gambling house is us, the gangster. People who put out money to open the gambling house. That's the oldest people, oldest boss from the association or from the street. and they have their regular business

and they have money. They won't make more money and they open the gambling house, but they don't have people who won the gambling house so they need the gangster to win the gambling house. Got it. But make a lot of money, though. The most famous time in Chinatown,

I think it's more than, at least more than trendy. gambling house more than 20. And where are these gambling houses? Are they in apartments? Over. Not that in apartment. Are they in factories? Always in a basement. Basement, yeah. In Chinatown, it's like all the gambling houses in basement. And was it only Chinese people? Was it only gangsters that were gambling?

Only Chinese people, not gangster. Gangster only worked in the gambling house. Got it, but it's just regular people in the neighborhood. Yeah. The people who work in the restaurant, people who work in the factory. and they have a break time, they come down a gambling house and pay, and after they off, like they off work,

they come down and pay, and all kind of people all over. Yeah. Did they need to know, like, a passcode to get in? Like, how did they get into it? No, everybody can get in. They just showed up and they said, hey, I'm here to play. Everybody can get in, yeah.

As long as you're Chinese. Oh, as long as you're Chinese. So if I showed up, what would you say? They won't, they're opening the bell, nobody going to respond to you. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, wow. They would say, thought like you're a cop.

But even though the cop come down and do a search down, and we knew it before. Because they were calling us, okay, tonight we will come down, what time, blah, blah, blah, blah, like this, right? So we'd be like, tell all the regular people, regular businessman, okay, don't come tonight. And then we will find a couple of junkie, okay, come down, pretend like they are gambling, and pretend like they are the customer, and let them get wasted. Wow. So as long as these, like the police got something to bring back. I see.

They come down and not think of it over there. Wow. What they go tell their boss? The cops are in on it and they say, hey, look, we have to come and search it. So we had to put out some people for them to arrest. Wow. So if you go to a Chinese gambling club and it's you and a bunch of junkies and a bunch of white people, you got to leave. Because there's going to be a search operation.

With that time is coming, you cannot even go in because they know. They know the times. The cops almost come. You are a regular business guy, regular customer. They just tell you, go home, go home. Don't come tonight. Come tomorrow. So then the police can go in.

and get the people that you guys set up to arrest, and then they can go to their boss and be like, hey, we shut it down, we arrest these people. They do that. They did their homework. Wow. They got something to show up. That's crazy.

Always like that. That's wild. And what were the games that were playing in the game like us? Something like the casino right now in the Atlantic C. Almost something. Dutteen car, poker, uh, Pai-go,

no wallet. Yeah, probably that's it. Were there ever any fights? Like if, you know, someone loses a lot of money, they might get pissed off. Not inside, outside. Always, like, they piece off, go outside. You want to do something, go outside. Because we have a lot of security.

You make sure nothing happens inside. So if there's a little, you know, people arguing, then you show up and you go, hey, take it outside. Yeah. Wow. So. Did it ever get heated? Were there ever nights in the gambling house where it was like,

Oh, that was a crazy night. Nothing big happen, you know, inside gambling house. It was pretty solid. No, yeah. And people are drinking, smoking? You can do anything you want. People are doing drugs and... Anything you want.

Wow. As long as you keep playing. Yeah. Wow. And did you have, like, security cameras? Was there any, like... Oh, really? Yeah, we had a security camera.

We had a security guy do a security. Everybody carry a handgun. We make sure the place. It's safe and nothing's happened. Because something happened, they go shut down. The cop, you know, cannot cover it. Something happened. So it was run like a legit casino?

Yeah. Wow. And were women allowed or was the only men? Both. Oh, really? Both. Oh, wow. I saw a lot of, can't say women.

It's like, girl, you know, over 20 teenager, okay? And they lose their money and they sleep with somebody and borrow somebody money and they sleep with him and we pay them back. Wow. I saw some lady, you can say lady. She's losing all her money and she was asking the guys who bottle money out, you know. And she was telling him that I got a daughter. She's 17 right now. Can you let me $5,000?

I can, you know. Yeah. No way. That is crazy. People crazy gambling. That's why I don't never trust gambling people. Don't never trust gambling people. Even though your father, your daughter, they can retreat you.

They'll do anything to get that fix. Yeah. Wow. So now back to, you know, training. You never finished what happened with Alan. So your dear friend passes away and then you finally get initiated. What happens? Even though we get, when the time you get training, we still, you know, after that we learn how to use gun.

And then Clifford will give us everybody a piece at least. Okay, he would put down all the pieces on the table. Okay, which one you want, which one you want, everybody gets a piece, right? So we have gun at that time. We have guns. And then we start searching the China time every day looking for fire dragon. We saw them, start shooting. They saw us, they start shooting.

The war start, I can say, the war started. Wow. Were you scared? No, actually, you don't. Because too young, you don't scare anything. I can say that. When you are a teenager, you don't scare anything. Just angry.

Yeah, just angry. Wow. We, you know, we shooting, we fighting, stepping. We are so exciting. We're not scared. Did you... We're like an animal. You can say that.

Yeah. When you got your gun for the first time, did you feel powerful? Yeah. You will have that feeling. You will have, like, you can, like, you can, like, how you say? You can control everybody's life. you would have that kind of feeling. When you are young, when you don't know what to think,

when you have that kind of power, and that will cover all your mind. You can say that. That will cover all your mind. Yeah. And so we start a war in China, always shooting. And we're shooting them, them shooting us. And keep going on, it's like, wow, a lot of year.

So a couple of my group people got killed and they had a member got killed. A lot of people got killed by that time in China. And how would you set up these operations? Like would you drive around in a car? Would you just walk around? Like what was the strategy? We know all the night, we can go to party. We know certain place by bad damn,

we're searching like very popular place for cup rain. And we know the fire dragon who like to handle which crop. You know, we know everything. It's like, which crop is like, you can go over there, you can see a lot of Fire Dragon, this cup you go over there, you can see a lot of Grosado. And this cup, you can see a lot of White Tiger, whatever. And we just, you know, wait for that.

time we're waiting for outside and we saw them and start shooting. Wow. And even though us, the place we had now, like at one time I always got kidnapped, same thing. How did you almost get kidnapped? What happened? For the old people, I think they would remember this, a very popular club called Underground. It's right at 14th Street and 6th Avenue. I go there after like, I think it's like that.

three, three something. And then after clapping, and when I, you know, leave, and I walk to try to get my car, and then certainly a car just cut in front of me. And a couple of fire dragons can come out. They pulled three guns pointing at me, all around me, three guns pointing at me,

and tell me to go inside the car, get inside the car. And then I have my boy also. Okay, my boys like, stay, you know, stand around me, try to, you know, blocking them. But because when we go inside the club, we got searched. We saw we don't have guns. My gun was inside my car. So I was kicking one of my boys telling him that,

go get the car, okay? Just go to the car. And those guys, they are targeting me, not my boy at that time. And why are they targeting you? Because that time I have my own group already. I'm a d'a-law. You know what d'a-law, right?

Dailo is the leadership, right? Yeah, okay. So they try to keep that me inside the car. When you're at Dailo, that means you're a high leader, right? Yeah, yeah. So I have my own soldier. And then I have my own soldier. So they try to keep that me.

and they're asking me to get inside the car, I say no. And then they say, like, you won't get inside? I'm going to shoot you right here. I said, go ahead because I know that's a lot of people. Because that's the party's over the time. Everybody's going to leave. A lot of people over there. They don't dare to open fire.

Okay, I will stand there. I say, you want to kill me? You shot me right here. If not, just go away. Okay? And then they just shot. They just stand there. Look at me.

And then one of my boy would grab the car and inside the car and grab the gun. And went over and they saw it. They jumped back inside the car and they went. Wow. Nothing happened. I'm lucky. Wow. Yeah.

I mean, that's ballsy. Yeah. To stand there with a gun in your face and you go. Three gun. Do something. Three gun, not one. Wow. Around me.

And their dialogue, their leader, a pony at me. Get inside the fucking car. Get inside the fucking car. I said, no. You want to kill me? Keep me right here. Okay, if not, I could get you back. And then my boys grab the gun and ran, when they saw it,

and they jumped back inside the car and they went. Wow. What is that conversation like when you get back in the car? Is the adrenaline pumping? Like, what is the feeling? When I get back the car, was like, go search them, chase them. You wanted to get back right away? Yeah, yeah.

Wow. So every time you're leaving your house, every time you're leaving the social club. Okay, always carry a gun. Always. Because you know that they're watching you in the way that you were watching them. Yeah. Every time when I leave the cop,

my termitory and their termitory is like way across the street. Two bad way across the street. So when I leave, I have to go up to the Manhattan Bridge. I have to make a turn past their termitory. Every time when I pass their territory, I think they have a slyper over there and shoot my car. Every time?

My car's always going. I got pulled a hole. How many times did you get shot at? A lot. Like hundreds? No, no, no, no, no, 100. Wow. You mean me?

Like shot at? Like that me or shot at? Yeah. Okay, even though they miss. Yeah. Wow. That's a lot. Wow.

That's a lot. And so were you always going out with other people with your soldiers? Yes. Yeah. Always. We never, you know, go outside by, by, You know, one people now. Wow.

Always at this couple people. Wow. And at this point, are you in communication with, like, your family at all? Or are you just kind of like, hey, this is my new family, this is my new life? Yeah. I went back to my house like a couple times a year. Like Chinese New Year, like whatever. Like, my father's birthday.

Okay, I went back. But they knew I'm there. They knew I'm in a lookout. Because my aunt who filed the application for our family to come to the United States, that's my aunt. She's the member of the association. Oh, your aunt was. She paying MJ over there every day. Oh, wow.

She saw me. So your aunt is the one that got the paperwork signed and she's in the club. Yeah. She's the member of the association. Because the club, the regular member for the club is regular people. They just socialize in the club. And my aunt is one of them. Wow.

And the youngest people is that, okay, that's the street side. We're, you know, operating the street. Wow. Yeah. So I knew my father's note I'm there, but what can he do? Yeah. I have my oldest sister. I have my oldest brother.

They are going to college. They need money to go to college. And my father and my mother, they don't know how to speak English. They just know how to work in the factory. By that time, factory work is like a couple cents apiece. They're working like day until nighttime. They're working nonstop, whole week. They only make like $200, $300.

And they need to pay the college, everything. So you were sending the money? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I was sending the money too. Wow. And so what were some of the other wars that you got into? Were there any specific battles that you got into that you remember

that were significant or that, that, Yeah, that changed you? Yeah, there's a group. Okay, that's a bar in our territory, calling Golden Star Bar. And people handing out inside, before we calling them Golden Star Kid. At first, they didn't make any trouble. But after, they recall a lot of people. They tried to take over our military.

And who was it that was trying to? Was it Flying Dragons? No, different, a little group. A new group. Yeah, yeah. But it's only been like not even a year. And then they got all gone. Wow.

Yeah. And how did they try to take over the territory? Did you hear a incident happening in East Broadway bar, somebody holding a machine gun, shooting inside, and a couple people got killed. And I think more than 10 people got injured. Never heard that before? No.

I think it's happening in 1980. 83 or 84, something like that. Yeah, early in the 80. Wow. And that was at Golden Star? Yeah. Were you there? No.

No. No. We already back out. Wow. Because when they try to take over the alternative, when they recall a lot of people, they're, I mean a lot of people, over 100 people. In one year, they got 100 people? No, when they try to, when they, uh, When they do the action to take over our territory, they already have at least 100 people.

Wow. By that time, we are still got war in the fight. We still got war between fire to the dragon and us. And we are less than 10 people left. Wow. And we're still fighting every day. But even though they come up with a lot of people who stand out on the street, we never left. We still have gambling house over there.

we still control the street, we still control the gambling house. But Clifford say, no, we don't want to fight it anymore. We back up first. So every our members backing up, working in a Qiff's restaurant or restaurant belong to the association, the old people, they have a lot of businesses, and we're over there working. And let them take over first.

But at first, I don't know why Krippah doing that. Why he gives a street to them, right? The whole temperature, why give it to them? But after that we find out Krippa's smart. They know he's not going to as long. The Gold Shardo, the Fire Dragon, go bust their ass. Wow. Yeah, not even a year.

Yeah, not even a year. I think it's like seven, eight months. The Fire Dragon, using a machine gun, go down to the Golden stop all and shoot everybody. Wow. After that, they're gone. So Clifford was the one that said, hey, stand back. Yeah. Let them take over and let the Golden Dragons or the Flying Dragons take care of them.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And after they got to take care of and then Clifford said, yeah, both times we got go back out. And then he tells the soldiers. And we took over, you know, we take over our territory. and then they have people left over. Because at first they have like 100,

I can say like they have more than 100 people. But that incident happened. It's like, I think it's like they got killed, three people got killed, and I think 13 people got injured, and they still got a lot of people. So, but their leader was scared after that thing happened.

Okay, their leader was back up. Okay, so their people got no leader, no more. They are like, no structure. But they're still in the street. They want some power to, you know, back them up. So they join us. Oh, wow. All their leftover group, everybody joined them, Tongan.

And how does that happen? What is the politics when, you know, soldiers of a former game, join your gang? Like how does how do those two merge? Oh they still under us. They join us. Okay, of course we have to agree first. Even though Griffith say, let them in, but we say no, they cannot go in. You say yes, they yeah, right? So at first we have to meet them first. Okay, they're inviting us to dinner party and then we meet everybody and then we have conversation. and then at first we go try out first.

We got to try, oh, they go obey our order or they just want to, you know, do something. So at first they, even though they got into our group, but they still under, because at that time, we had a couple of leaders, not only me. We have a couple of d'a-law. So we separate their group, like 10 people, 10 people you follow this dialogue,

10 people you follow this dialogue, separate them. And then we will like watching them see which one is good. We go to, how you say it? We go to which one can stay and which one we don't want it. We just kick them out. And who were the people that get kicked out? Like they wouldn't follow orders?

Oh, a lot. No. How I say it? You don't want, I can say it. You don't want any. people, they are not a gangster type people in your group. What do you mean by that? Gangster type people.

They cannot do anything. Easy can tell. You give them a gun. Tell them, you know, teach him how to shoot a gun. You can, by the way, you can see this guy is born to be a gangster. Or he's not a gangster type. You go home, stay with your parents. You will do that.

Wow. So you were really checking for competence. Yeah, yeah, competent. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Like we can... You are not in debt. You never understand that. Like, certainly a lot of people over here, I'm an old gangster. So I know how's the gangster look like? How's the gangster at?

And how is people born to be a gangster? Okay. A lot of people here. and we give them a training or we give them something to do and see they can finish it. Like, let's say like, okay, I give him like, this guy come in, this little people, the little member come in, I tell him like, okay, this guy own the gambling house,

how much you go collect the money, come back. I give you like a week a time. a time. Okay, if you cannot collect the money, forget it, you go home. Mm-hmm. You give them small tasks, small, small missions. Yes. Wow. Okay, if they compete the mission, they can stay. If they are not, they have to go home. Wow. Yeah, they're not allowed to come up with an association anymore. Wow. Yeah. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I need to tell you

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Tell me about them. Italian, Spanish, Italian, Spanish. Yeah. And how did that happen? How did an Italian guy get into the Chinese gang? Because Mowbril Street. You know Mowbray, right? Little Italian.

It's why it's to China. So we used... a youth gang member in China time. So we are like, we are like, we knew each other for, you know, we are friends for a long time. We never get a beef with a mafia, you know that. Chinese gang never get a beef with mafia. Mafia and us is like pretty close.

Real good. Really? The Italian mafia and the Chinese gangs work together. Yeah. Like Chinese New Year. Before the fire world is legal. And all the people like before July 4, Chinese New Year, they go down to China

to buy firework. Okay? Where they buy the fire fire from? From us. Where we get the fire from? Mafia. Okay? We get them from $5 a pet

and then we sell for $20 a pet. To regular people? Yeah. In Chinatown? Yeah. Oh, wow. So you guys are doing business together? Yeah.

Yeah. And even though the counterfeit. Mm-hmm. The watch, the bad is from mafia. Before. Before. Yeah, now it's from China. Okay, before it's like all from the mafia.

So Italian mafia is getting the counterfeit goods. You guys would buy it from the Italian mafia. And then you got, in China town it would be sold. So yeah. Oh, interesting. Before it's like this. Okay. So, you know, we are pretty close to each other.

So sometimes, like, they're son. They don't like to handle the Italian society. I don't know why. They like to handle you in association. Oh, wow. Yes, that's why we have an Italian guy. We have a Spanish guy. Because, you know, a lot of Spanish people in China.

Even though the place I live at, Boom Street, Denzi, a lot of Spanish people. Everybody knows me. The Spanish guy, everybody knows me. Oh, wow. Yeah, they saw my car. They know, oh, that's Jimmy. Oh, wow. So when the Italian guys come in, I mean, because you speak Cantonese?

Yeah, yeah, I speak Cantonese. So you guys are mostly speaking in Cantonese. how would an Italian guy come in? Or do you speak English? Whenever we give him an order with Spanish. Wow. Yeah.

That's so interesting. He don't care. You just let you handle, you know, no, he got food. You know, for him, whatever,

Chinese food. We got a lot of girls. The most thing like we got a lot of girl. Interesting. Like, you got girl coming in and out in and almost every day

like, more than 20. 30 girls coming in. The most beautiful one? Teenager. You can say that's no ugly girl in the teenager age. Right? And they love it.

They like to hand out with the girl. Wow. Yeah. So these Italian guys would come in. You had something that they wanted. But we never give a important, like most important thing to do to the Italian guy. Just tell them to go buy an order or whatever. I'd never pick up somebody like this.

They would be soldiers, but they couldn't be a dialogue. I love an Italian guy in Chinatown. He's a di-Lo, but he's not my group. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, his name's John. But he speaks Chinese too. He's an Italian guy that speaks Chinese that rose in the ranks.

Yeah, he go up in Chinatown, and he's a dialogue. Wow. After all, he got rested. And there was never any fights between Chinese gangs, and, you know, Italian gangs or Latin gangs or black gangs? No. No. By that, at that time, no other gang coming in Chinatown. You hardly see a back dude in Chinatown.

I mean, the heart in China Town, not the outside area. Right. Okay. No, nobody, I can say that nobody dare to mess with Chinese gang now at that time, by that time. Yeah. Yeah. It was ruthless. Because they know we are crazy.

Okay. Interesting. Yeah. And are there anything within the politics of Chinese gangs that made Chinese gangs different than other gangs? It is. Yeah. In what way is a Chinese gang different than another gang? I can say that like, okay, Chinese gang in New York is not that organized.

But in Hong Kong, it's much different. In Hong Kong, you're a businessman. You have a lot of business. Like, you have an enterprise company. You have all kinds of business. You're doing all kinds of business. You need some soldier to do something under table and which people don't know. Okay?

So they are like an enterprise. You are joining the triad, you are not joining again, you are joining an enterprising. You get paid, you get silo-be, you get promoted, and you can make a lot of money, and just like business. They're operating the gang like a business. In New York, yeah, they try to do that too, but too bad. We still Chinese.

We still Chinese. We still yellow skin. This United States is not controlling by the yellow skin, not that. So we cannot go up that fast. Maybe in the future, who know? Even now, I don't think so. But for the gang life, back then, yes, a couple of different. I can say like big boss, the top one.

They try to, you know, get into the politics. They are more connect to the government people. But after they still got, you know, got kicked out. And that's in China or is that in China time? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. So they try to get involved in politics, but it doesn't work in the way it does back in

Yeah, I know this guy, he opened a ban, he opened a financial company, like a lot of Egypt company, a lot of big enterpising company. And he tried to get into the government people. And still not working. Wow. And then, like, as soon he tried to, you know, get into the government, and then the Fed started to, you know, investigate him. And then he left. And then he laid low.

Yeah, he left. He left United States. Wow. So for how many years were you operating with the T-O in, in Chinatown, in New York? Oh, T-O started in, uh, Pongan start in, uh, Pongan start in, As I remember, because I'm not there, as I remember, Clifford tell me, 1973, something like that. But Gold Shadow and Fire Dragon start in 1960 something.

Oh wow. Yeah. Long history. And before them, they have a black eagle, white eagle in Chinatown and different groups. And why they recruiting a group a gangster in Chinatong? Because by them, I just tell you before, the car. I don't care China tongue whatever you guys do they don't care so and uh uh the Chinese people they you know they like to stick together and and they always got you know

got racist by you know a lot of a lot of people are different kind of people and and by then bad dams like a lot of Chinese people they don't speak English they only can work in a laundry mat before right now before restaurant laundry mat factory that's yeah that's most three things they can work so but they still want to make money for that kind of world they only can you know enough for living that's it they get they got no saving they cannot you know buy a house buy an apartment they cannot let their family to come here most Chinese people back them here is like by himself

and the wife even though they have a wife even though they have children in Hong Kong or China or somewhere else but he don't have money to let them come to the United States and join together so they have to

think of something to make money and China Tong is a special place for them can make money. So what were the other money-making operations? I know there was the gambling. Gambling house. Also, if you want to smoke, you can.

Oh, okay. If you'd like to. Okay. Gambling house. Protection? Protection? Not really. Okay.

I will clear one thing. For like, people thought, gangster always do an extortion. for the store, everything. At my time, we don't do a distortion. We have a temporary. Like, this street is, I control this couple street.

Whatever you want to open a business here, you will come up to the association. I don't have to go down. They already know. They will come to an association and then they will look for Kifford or they will look for me. Afterward, they look for me. And saying that, oh, I want to open a restaurant over there.

want to open a hardware store over there, how much I got to pay you every month. They're asking me how much. It's like that. I send people down there. Hey, you have to pay me. You don't pay me. You cannot open a business.

No, not like that. They come up. They're asking us how much they will pay for our protection, to get our protection. So I would, you know, what kind of business is open? I would keep them a price and they agreed it. And they're paying us. It's not an extortion.

You don't have to pay. but anything happened, don't calling us. You don't care. Okay? Just like that. But outside people always say, oh, gangster always I store the store, you know, do that distortion and scare the owner. We don't do that.

So if they don't pay, if something happens to them, if a different gang comes in, it's like, look, you're on your own. Always different gangs come in and ask them for money. But if someone pays you and then, let's say a flying dragon comes and says, hey. We have a search certificate handing up there and say you are Tongan Association member. Oh, really? Yeah. Inside the restaurant or inside the store. Inside the store.

Wow. Okay. No matter what kind of store you have. For our territory, with your, you open a store in a Fire Dragon territory, they have a surf thing that, Heapsing Association member. And for a ghost chartered territory, they have a club. have an all known association member. Wow.

So as long as other people, other group of member, other gangster come in and they saw the, they saw the search that they were, oh, this store belong to T-O. Or this store belong to Fire Dragon. So they knew. So it's not extortion. It's like insurance. Yeah. It's like, hey, we want insurance.

Yeah. So if something happens to us, you can get our back. Because every, every holiday, I can say every holiday, like Christmas, New Year, Thanksgiving, always gangster shopping over to get money. Okay. Wow. Now, who was the most intimidating and crazy Chinese gangster you ever met? Kennelboy.

Kennell boy. Born to kill. And who was he? Vietnamese. Vietnamese guy. Yeah. Wow. And tell me about him.

What did he look like? What did he do? Okay. Most of the Kennel boy, we call them Kennell boy. But outside people call them born to kill. kill. Born to kill. Or a canal boy?

We call them Canal Boy. But on the newspaper, the cop called them born to kill. And were they T.O. or were they their own? Before,

before they start, some of them belong to Five Dragons. Some of them belong to T.O. Some of them belong to T.O. Some of them belong to Grosha. But they are Vietnamese. And by that time,

the Vietnamese people So most of them, they did the war before, you know, the Vietnam War, they did the war before they really like get into it. They know what to do. And they were trained how to kill in Vietnam. Yes. And then they come here.

They called them that ball to kill. Wow. But we call them Kennel Ball because they hand, afterwards they always hand out in Canal Street. And I can say that. They're crazy. In what way? They can kill you by bullshit reason. What's the craziest story you ever heard that a canal boy did something to someone?

When first, when they try to take over Canal Street, because they do in the counterfeit. For the war, those kind of thing. And before that, before them take over Canal Street, always say, like black people, Spanish people selling those kind of stuff in Canals Street. They was chasing them every single day. Kick them out of the Canals Street. They came over the street. Okay, they doing shooting.

I know a bag dude got killed inside a factory building. They just kidnapped him inside the building and shoot him in the head. Wow. And I don't think anybody got busted after that. But we know, we know the story, okay. And they, with, they don't get along with you. They don't care who you are. They will come to you.

Wow. That's how they is. Did you ever have a face-to-face? No, me and him, we were good. We and Dan we were good. Because you knew they were crazy. I know, because I have a good business with Vietnam these two. Before they are together.

I see. But even though they join in Tongan, but they see, they bumming each other, they still fan. Wow. Yeah. Vietnamese people are different. Vietnam's different. Vietnam, they separate in two groups, South Vietnam and North Vietnam. Okay.

You come from South Vietnam, they stick together. You come from North Vietnam, they stick together like this. Interesting. Yeah. Very special. And did that happen with Chinese people as well? If you were from Shenzhen or from Beijing? No.

Chinese people, no. Before, no. But afterward, the Fukkinese people come in, they start the Gura Fuk Ching, and then at that time make different. Yeah, they always like, Fukkinese people always join Fuk Ching. Before they have Fuk Ching, they join all the Al-Qu. Al-Gu, they're Five Dragon, Gorsado, they all have Fokinese people. But after Fukin-Nus people, all the Fukinis people joined Fuking. Because there wasn't enough of them to make their own gang at first.

That's the one reason, but other reason is they speak the same language. They spit the same dialect. I see. Yeah. And so they would collaborate and connect with other Fokinese people. Yeah, yeah. Even though they try to collect money in the store, they go inside the store, they speak Fokinese. And with the store owner, answer them back in your Fokinese.

And then he got a trouble. They won't give away. They have to get the money. You know, until they will leave until they get the money. Oh wow. Okay. Or otherwise they won't leave. If you speak Fokinese.

But if they went inside the store and you speak Cantonese, they just turned on and walk away. Oh really? Yeah. So they would only get the money if they spoke Fukinese? Yeah. And why is that? They only chasing their own people. Oh really?

Yeah. Oh wow. Yeah. So they wouldn't mess with people speaking Cantonese, Mandarin. It was only Fulcanese. Oh, interesting. I think they thought like, you know, most of the Fokinese people, they don't have a legal immigrant. They are not legal, they are illegal.

Okay. So they don't scare. They don't scare. They go. call the cop because they're scared too because they are illegal, they don't dare to call a cop. But for the Cantonese people, we have been decades,

we have been a long time, we've always legal. Yeah, we're always legal. We'll call the cap. That's why I thought, but I don't know exactly. Oh, wow. And then the other money-making operations, was there any drug operation that happened? At the beginning,

no. Beginning no, after. After? Yeah, after like. After your time? Or were you there when there was? No, no, no, I was still there. After, like, in the mid of 80, like 87, 88, and I start doing the drug business.

And by that time, all the major gang in Chinatong, they're doing drug business. And what kind of drugs? Harvlin. And how are they getting the heroin that's coming in from China? How it beginning. Okay, it's not from my group, it's from the other group. There's a triad member from Hong Kong to the United States,

and then this member knew some big balls in their group, and then they, you know, they have conversation and they corroborate, and they have to deal with each other, and they started shipping heroin to New York and sell it. Bad then it's very easy to import those kind of things.

It's very easy. They can ship it by cargo by a bucket of sugar a bucket of MSG. But inside it's all heroin. Oh wow.

It's easy. Before it's like very easy. So when, okay, even though me and you is enemy, but you have a lot of merchandise, you want to sell this thing out. So you have to ask everybody. Your group people, they're not enough. They cannot, you have a big, too much supply, okay?

And you want to do that fast. You want to get that, become a cash, right? So you have to be nice to, Your enemy. You got to do business. You come to us, hey, I have this. Good place. Can you guys do something about it?

And then we go to the Gold Shadow Group. Hey, I got just like, everybody cooperated together. So by that time, the whole gang starts selling it. Wow. And how much money do you think the gang's made in total from that time? Huge. Huge. Millions?

More than that. Tens of millions. More than that. Hundreds of millions? Okay. I can tell you what I know. For one herodon from Hong Kong or China, from Thailand, okay, I can say it's from Thailand, to the United States, cost 80 grand Hong Kong dollar.

It's above a little bit more than 10 grand U.S. dollar. like 11 grand for one kilo. Wow. You know how much you can sell in the United States for one kilo? At least 120. So it's like 10x. Wow. And every time they get a shipment in, it's more than 100.

100 kilos? More than that. One bucket of MSGs already 100 pounds. That's how many kilos. For one cargo. How many bucket? So it was, one shipment might have been 100 million. Yeah.

Wow. So you think how much they mean. So what you think, why is the fat come down to, you know, to investigate. By that, at that time, all the other races like Spanish, black, Italian, whatever, they get heroin from Chinese. Wow. So everyone's coming. They have the name for the China White all over. You see, with not ChinaWite, they don't want it.

They want China white. Wow. Because that's the pure, like, how I say, like, volous. Okay, with popular brand. So, everyone got to get the stuff from China. Wow. So even though the soldiers, they are doing that, not even the leader, not even the boss, and everybody's doing that.

and they get a lot of money. And we make a lot of money, yes. But when you, when you are young teenager, when you're like 20-something, not even dirty yet, but you make a lot of money. What are you going to expand your money?

You go to keep it, save it? See? Nobody saved that money. Wow. At that time, I was only... 20, 22. I'm driving a Porsche. Wow.

And I have three houses. Three houses? In Brooklyn, Queens, I had three houses. I know the other group they have like Ferrari, all kind of, you know, high class merchandise. And EC can, like, If you are a fat, you can say, man, what happened is good? Before they're like, gambling money, a little $100,000 here.

Low class. Now is why everybody become a high class. Wow. So they start to investigate, and they do the search. And then after they finished the investigation, they do research time. Everybody's gone. Everybody got arrested. That's when it all went down.

Yeah. When all the money came in from the drugs. Yeah. Wow. That is wild. And so what... With that time, we know, you know, we know what to do. We know what to save the money is.

We know how to save the money. And maybe it's still going on. But we don't know everything. Wow. I can tell you we're stupid. Everybody's stupid. Can you say how much money you made? Multi-million at least.

Wow. And what did you spend it on? You spent it on cars and... Car and... I went back to Hong Kong a lot. I stayed in Hong Kong. First class? Yeah.

Light Club, in Hong Kong, Light Club every night. You know, all the rich people, they are paying and we are paying too. Okay? You know, the rich people paying stuff. Like both white, both party. Driving a Ferrari.

In Hong Kong, I driving a Ferrari. important no no no I bought it in Hong Kong Oh wow Yeah I spent all the money in Hong Kong Do you have any funny stories from your time When you were with the T.O. in New York

Anything funny story? Wow What kind of funny story Let me see Oh I got shot I know I got shot at

But they missed it Okay That time, I was off from the, just getting off from the gambling house in my termitory. And me and a couple of my people, we walked down together. And before we walked down, we looked through the window. I saw a guy and a girl stand downstairs and hudding each other. and I already feel strange.

I already tell my people and be careful when we walk down. This guy must be something's going on, right? So when we walk down and the guys were on the left hand side, like one store distance, it's real close. It's like right here to right there. Close, right? So as soon we walked down, this guy's still hunting the girl, but his eyes look at us.

So I knew it. I always tell my guy, pull out a gun, pull out a gun, okay? My guys won't listen. And I saw this guy's pull out a gun from the girl he hug and her purse, pull out a gun from her purse and start shooting me. White hair to white hair. What did you do? And I was, I was, I was, before I was calling like,

oh, can't shoot him, shoot him, shooting. I was like, how come what happened? Nobody, nobody doing nothing. I was standing there. I was looking at that guy, he put a gun, and then he started showing me a try, bum, bum. I thought I was shot. And then I looked at my body.

I said, really? Nothing happened. Tell him I want, man. And then I, my guys after we start you know start running

and then my guy found out there oh the gun I have the gun and then he turned and shot him back I said what the fuck I tell you pull out of a gun

you don't pull out of the gun and after he starts shooting and then you pull out of the gun I'm lucky I didn't get shot but the distance even though you're blind you can shoot me but he shot me twice

bum bum I would say oh shit I always say oh shit and then I take along my body. Nothing. Wow. I don't know where it's the boat. I mean, how do you miss from that close?

Yeah. I mean, that guy's an idiot. But one of my brother, he got hit by the ass. No, he got hit in the ass? Yeah. And what did you guys do? Did you, he ran away? And then what?

We pulled him up and then start one and still went, yeah. And do you go to the hospital? And then, no. What do you do if you got shot in the ass? Man, you saw a lot of movies. You said live cut it. You did that? Yeah.

Wait, so you... You cannot go to hospital for that. Go to hospital, a cop, go to find out. You took a bullet from your ass. So you have to get the bullet out of his ass? Yeah. You get a knife? Yeah.

Yeah, burn it, burn the light, use the alcohol, okay? And then keener, and then use the tower, having to hold the tower, and then cut it. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. And no... You have to. No painkillers?

No, like painkillers, no medicine? Afterward, yeah, time, no. What else? I don't know. Alcohol, something? No. Wow. That is crazy.

Were you mad at him? Were you like, bro, I told you to shoot? I met with two guys, man. Two of our guy have gun. One guy, he turned around, he went back home. I can't do that. other guy he was with us

but he went to halfway with us and then he found out of the gun and then he pulled out of the gun and turn around and shoot down did you smack him in the head like yo what's wrong

no no no we're still on the street right and we got to get back to the association first do you yell at him when you get to the association

yeah and what do you tell him I told you pull out a gun what the fuck you're doing and he told me that he forgot he had a gun that's like the one rule

of being a gangster. Don't forget you have a gun. Wow. So that's why I tell you some people is born to be a gangster. Some people, they are not a gangster type. You think I could be a gangster? Huh? Could I be a gangster? I know you too old for that. You're not teenager no more. I'm too old. I could do it. Come on. I think I could do it. I'll never forget I have a gun. I promise. You don't want to be a teenager. You don't want to be a a teenager, okay? I mean, that's crazy. That's crazy. One time,

and, uh, white here, White Stone name, uh, in Queens. White Stone. I finished paying,

uh, bowling. Uh, I come out and then a, a group of people, uh, when I finish paying bowling, when I get out the bowling alley,

a group of people just chasing me and using, you know, um, uh, a jack to, uh, Change tire, the jet food using change tire. He might have, pung, pung.

He hit you in the head, like a gong. It just like, bang. Yeah. And then I was standing. Look at him. This guy is like, oh, shit. And then I start to want nothing. Did you have a concussion?

Did it hurt? Did it hurt? You had a concussion? You thought about it too long. I think you might have a little concussion. No. I'm still thinking if that's too long. that happening too long

but he's breathing after he's breathing but I still want to The guy was standing there looking looking at jet Shit How is he still awake? Yeah he said

Man I hit this guy Why this guy don't fail down I still went pong I was heard the sign pung I said what the fuck You heard the sound Yeah I heard the sound pung Oh my gosh

I still got a sky away here No Yeah And then when you got back to the association, did someone stitch you up? No stitcher. No stitches? Just use some Chinese medicine, put it in. Chinese medicine?

Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, but I was staying in an apartment for two weeks. Yeah, at least. Yeah, or spoils. I mean, that's crazy. Yep. And a lot of times, man, I got shot, I got hit.

Oh, do I tell you a story about it? I got shot five times. Yeah, that happened. Oh, you listen to that too way. No, no, no, no. But I want to hear it though. I want to hear it. That happened later though, right?

Yeah, 1992. Okay. What happened? How did you get shot five times? I was in my girl's house. Light time. When I was a cigarette and I have to go to buy cigarettes. I went down to the parking lot.

I get my car, try to drive a cigarette. When I get to the parking lot, when I opened the door, I stepped inside the car and sit, and then I didn't close the door yet. And when I closed the door, I always looked at the side mirror. Before I closed the door, I saw the side mirror somebody come out from behind the car. Not my car, behind that, the people's car, come out for the people's car. I already knew something happened. I didn't close the door.

I would start to jump from this side, the passenger side. I jumped over there, try to open that door and start running. But before that, the guys was right behind my driver-sized door and pulling an automatic and then finish all the boat. And I still open the passenger side door, get out of the car and went and start running. about, let me see, one, two, three blocks. Okay, and then I saw a grocery, 24-hour grocery owned by Korean people.

I went inside, and then I was telling the, I don't know this is the owner or the worker, telling them that, oh, call the cop, call the cop. I got shot, right? That guy saw me after, you know, after I said, I got a shot, right? And then he come out, he pushed me out. Coaster gave him.

So now you're on the street, you're bleeding. Yeah, and middle of the naive, low body on the street. And I'm breathing. I know, actually, I don't know I'm breathing or I'm a shredding. Okay, I thought I'm shredding. But I know like a shot. Must be. Because two coals.

You cannot miss that, okay? Vice sit, okay? passing driver's side and passenger side yeah he was standing over here and dun dun dun okay so i would stand there he coached the gay say fuck what i going to do right this guy didn't chase me because he finished all the bullet he got no bullet okay he turned around he went the other side so i stand there what i go to do and before that do you see it on street, they have a pole, a wet color, like a big mailbox, and they have two buttons, one for the fire, one for the police.

And then I saw that. And then I posted a button police, right? And then the operator say, what's the emergency? I say, I'm at Amherst, blah, blah, blah, what street? I got shot. And the line one operator said, oh, you got shot. I said, where? I said, I don't know. How many times? I said, I don't know. What's your name? I gave me my name. And then he asked me, who shot you? He asked me, I forgot. He asked me a lot of stupid question. Almost like five minutes. I still talking to this aberrant. I say, are you going to send the police or send the ambulance down here? I'm dying. Oh, you are dying, but you're still talking to me. say if I'm dying

If I'm dead How are I going to talk into you? Yeah Man What a stupid operation Okay And then Oh okay

Okay I go send an ambulance Send a cop over there So I was asking her I still remember It's a lady So what I'm good Do I go stand here

I'm waiting Maybe the killer Go coming back And shot me again Oh you have to find Somebody to hide Or find where to hide She was telling me find somebody's too high.

I got kicked out of a grocery store already. Yeah. I said, where I should hide? So, nothing I can do. So I have to sit on the street waiting for the ambulance. Almost like 10 minutes. And you've already been talking for five minutes. Yeah, 15 minutes.

Like the whole thing is 15 minutes until the ambulance come. And then the ambulance guys come even funny. I was sitting on the corner of street, on the side of the street sitting over there. I wearing a black shirt and black pants, whole black. The emberling guys arrive asking, who can shot? Look a shot.

I was looking. I'm the only one on the street. Who else? And then the guy come over. You got shot. Where? Because my shirt is wet. Everything is wet.

My shirt is black. So he cannot tell. I say, I'll do where. You'll find out. And then you use a Caesar to cut my shirt, okay, cut the whole thing. And then use the finger. Oh, you got shot right here, right here, right here. I said, stop pointing my hole, man.

Fix me. Yeah, he's using a finger. You've got to feel the pressure. Okay? I said, why are you pushing my wand, right? Oh, you want to know how many times you got shot? I was showing you. How many times you got shot?

So after the final, I got shot five times. You go to the hospital? Yeah, yeah. And they brought me to the hospital. I thought I'm finished. I thought I'm, that's it. I'm not going to wake up, right? Because after the embermanian guy told me,

oh, you got shot right here. See right here? Oh, wow. Two time right here. Twice in the neck. Two time way here, inside. Okay? And three times on the back.

And one time it's right in the middle. My sponge, right in the middle. And one time right here and one time right here. So totally I got shocked at night. Wow. So I was, when I get to the hospital and, do you say like, Gunn-on, have a surgery. So they do a surgery for me.

and the next day I got up, yeah, the next day I got up, I was wrapping like mommy. The whole body's wrapping like mommy. So when I got up, the doctor come by, asking, oh, you get up already. You're all right.

And then he gave me see all the bullet. He's using a, you know, metal thing, a little metal thing. You're not going to put your head. And it's sold me. Here's your bullet. I say, oh, can I keep it? He's like, no, no, I can't give it to the police.

So, and then I asked him, so will I be recovering? And the doctor said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you'll be okay. But one thing I have to tell you, I say what? You still got a bullet inside. I said, what? And he would say that, yeah, yeah, you still got a bullet inside. But that bullet is going to stay forever. Okay?

Until you die. You go stay there forever. I say, where? And it's right here. It's a carmoy, shot right here. and the bone right here, the bullet is inside the bone. They cannot get out. The bullet's still inside your bone?

Now, no. What happened? After like 10, more than 10 years, 12 years, I think it's like 2006, I think it's like 2006, start coming out from here. The bullet came out from here. Wow. Because the, I don't know, the pressure, the bone, got pressure, pushed it. push it and then they follow the butt thing and come out from here.

And the first, however I know, is like, how come every time, like every day got little water come out from my skin? I say, why is wet, always wet, and scratching, itchy. So almost like a month is like that. So I went to see doctor, the doctor took an x-ray, say, oh, you got to bowl it over there. I said, what? My bullet's not right here, right there. And then doctor said, no, the bonus right here.

And then carry, cut it and take it out. Do you have that bullet? No, he got to give it to the police. Even 10 years later? Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's the woo. That is crazy.

Yeah. Did it go off when you went to the metal detector? Before that? Sometime, yeah. Really? Sometimes. And you were to tell them like, hey, I got a bullet in me. Yeah.

Yeah. But I, before that, always like, when I, leave the country, I always carrying my medical record, so damn, I got bullied right here. Really? But sometimes they win, sometimes they don't. I don't know why. Because polo make with lead,

it's metal, but it's a different kind of metal. But sometimes they win, sometimes they don't. Wow. So what happens when you get discharged? Does your girl come to see you? Discharge. I will stay in the hospital for four days. Four days?

That seems not that long. And then the doctor said, oh, okay. I go to release you, you go home. I say, I got shot five times. At this one day, one day, five day. Why it's four days? And the doctor said, oh, you don't get fever. You get fever, that's trouble.

But you don't get fever. It's all right. You go home and get recovery. Wow. I say, that's it. You say, yeah, yeah, go home. I say, how I go to go home? Wrapping my mommy.

So, and then the doctor said, oh, it has to learn to take everything up. And then I called my, call my, one of my brother picked me up. Did anyone come visit you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah, my street brother, the next day, you know, it's all for the newspaper. The newspaper say, I'm, you know, that's it.

But it's not true, okay. The newspaper said you died? Like, almost, okay? Like, it's very danger. Okay. So where my street brother comes, visit me, they are, they are, they have a conversation when they step in. I, I heard that.

They were saying like, oh, I don't know, Jimmy's still here. Maybe he's already dumbed there. And then I was calling up, fuck you. And then they say, oh, that's Jimmy. Yeah, my mother, I will hear that. They say, oh, that's Jimmy's son. Oh, he's inside. He's not bad yet.

I say, fuck you. I'm still here. That's crazy. Yeah. And now the guy that shot you? After where he got wasted. For the shooting? For the shooting and for the other thing too.

For a different thing? Yeah, possession of machine gun, I think. Wow. Yeah, and then for my case, for the other case, he got wasted. And then after jail time, then he got deported. Wow. Yeah, fucking this guy. Oh, wow.

Green dragon. Green dragon. Yeah. And do you know why he shot? you? Or because money. Or because money. Because they want to use one of my girl to bring stuff back to Hong Kong and bring another stuff from Hong Kong to United States. And I don't like her. I'm not agree. So they cannot find anyone. So they are pissed. So they got to take care of you. Wow. That's the first thing. Second thing, because by that time I was like, I just got back from Hong Kong and they are belong to Green Dragon. Before I get back, my soldier got beef with them.

And my soldier killed two of their guys. I think it's like two weeks before my shooting. Two weeks before my shooting. So they want to get me too because I'm the leader. and I don't even know and after God I was I was asked my my people

why you tell me earlier man shit you shot someone I got bad you should tell me okay so I will like you know be careful for that

wow but they didn't tell me I didn't know that's crazy and so are you angry at him do you want to get revenge on him or are you kind of like

that's the game you mean the guy who shot me I can't not do anything. Because the cops sent two cops 24-hour follow me. Oh, really? Yeah. And I was telling them, you don't have to follow me.

You just give me a gun. I take care of myself. And you say, no, no, no, I cannot do that. I have to follow you. 24-hour. Wow. Whenever I go, they are over there, two cops. That's crazy.

Follow me almost like, they say they're protecting me. They are not following me. We want to protect you. We don't want something happened to you. Okay. I say, wow, you don't have to protect me. I got my own protection, okay? They say, no, no, no, we have to do that.

Like, they found me until the guy got arrested. And then once he got arrested. Yeah, and then they're gone. You didn't need to be protected anymore. Yeah. Wow. That is wild. And when did you start getting involved with the triads in Hong Kong?

Oh, that's earlier. When I first time went to Hong Kong, after I finished two years. jail time. Oh, you did jail time first. Yeah, yeah. After I got out and then two of the old member in the Tongan, they are original triad member in Hong Kong. Because they did something in Hong Kong, they went away to the United States. So they will stay here like more than 10 year. And after I got out and I went back to the association and they knew I just got out from jail and they were asking me like they want to go back to Hong Kong. Okay. They will go back to Hong Kong and ask me like do I want to you know come with them? Okay

because I just come out from jail. I know you you inside for two years. Okay. Come to Hong Kong have fun. Okay. So um I say, why not? So I go with them. And that's the first time to go to Hong Kong. Go back to Hong Kong before I'm in Hong Kong. Okay. And when I'm in Hong Kong and they say like, they go to see their boss.

You want to come to? I say, why not? So that's the first time meet my big boss in Hong Kong. And what's his name? What's he like? What is he like? What is his energy? He's like mid-40, glasses or soup up, Thai.

It's like rich people, business people, businessman. And not even a little bit, look like a gangster. No gangster look, okay, nothing. And when the first time he saw me and then my, Other two brothers introduced me to him saying that, oh, I'm the da-lo-in-law in New York. And he just got me trade inside doing two years. He just got out. So they bringing me with them and see what can he do for me in Hong Kong.

So the boss said that, oh, okay, okay, that's good. And I asked me like, uh what my power in new york okay what you can do in new york so i tell them i have a gambling house i can you know i have my own soldier blah blah blah and then you say okay you want to join us i say yeah why not right and then we found out there suddenly on so you send someone send another guy a old guy i sent an old guy and then bring me to a place and do the ritual again Excuse me. Okay.

Close it. And then after the ritual, and the same thing, give me a number for the member's number. And for the Sun Yian and give me 200 number to bring back to the United States for my soldier. So all my soldiers would become a Sun Yon too. So they would, all your soldiers would basically become triad. triad. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because we got to talk about your amazing dick game.

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That's what my friends say, you've got to pull a hole more than the army. Yeah, probably. You know, when I inside the jail, you know, when you're first inside, they always asked you, wait, what are you here for? I didn't say a word. I didn't keep my mouth sharp. And then they saw my bullet hole. Man, don't mess with this guy, man.

You got a lot of bullet holes. They saw it. They can tell because easy can tell the bullet holes like this. Wow. Okay. And then before I have a scar, now it's getting lighter and lighter. When I first heel, it's dark. They were still saying

Oh, you got caught right here I said no I got trapped right here You still living? I said yeah I'm still living Wow Yeah you can't really notice The scar is getting lighter

And lighter Yeah it's not Before it's dark Wow That's crazy So when you get involved With the triads in Hong Kong You have to do the initiation ceremony

Yeah And what is that like You said it's complicated Complicated Yeah We have to like Speed a lot of porn we have to remember a lot of wool.

They have a lot of wool. They have a lot of handsai. But at first, I cannot remember it. But they give me a book. They give me a book in English. You know what called a new bond. A book. Everything's inside.

Wow. Do you still have the book? Yeah. I still happen. I cannot find it. It's in my mother's house. Wow. Yeah.

And so they give you the book. And is this the ritual that is like a blood wine ritual? It's not only ritual. The book is, okay, all the level you are in the triad. They have a special kind of handshine and a special kind of pawn for this level, this position. So every level has a poem? Yeah, you have to remember it. And the hands high, you have to remember it.

Wow. Do you remember the hand signs? Yeah. Can you show me? Nah, not bad yet. It's okay. That's okay. For the triad, they have like a lot of,

their system is different than a regular society. Even though you sit down, you're drinking water. They're using a hand side to carry in your bar. a border and I can tell you a trial or not. Oh wow. Okay. But that's for our old generation, the little generation they don't know. Okay.

They are all, you know, forget about it. And they have all different kind of thing like, like, we call this cigarette, okay? But in the triad, we don't call this cigarette. We call this something else. Like we call it a firearm. We call something. else you don't call fire so when other people say something like that and then we can like

you merely tell he's triad you can see clearly indicate to try it so you could be at dinner with someone in the way they pick up the bottle you yeah uh like like we have like we have like something's going on for other people and then we sit down and talk try to you know go straight uh try to you know result this problem and then we have to sew my position. And you have to show your position. But we are not saying, oh, I'm sorry, son-y-on, blah, blah, whatever. You sold it by the hands side.

You saw it by pawn. Covert. Yeah. And then you saw it your hands side. You saw it by your pawn. So I know what position you are and what company you are at like this. Before, that's an old generation. And that book is like everything inside.

Wow. And the book, you can't buy it. You have to be given the book. You cannot buy it. Wow. Or the leader have won. Not the soldier, only a leader. So you became a general right away?

Yeah, because I have soldier in New York already. Because you already have power within the T.O. But I don't have to listen any boss in Hong Kong. Because I don't belong to Hong Kong school. I belong to the United States. Okay. And in the United States at that time, Snowballs, Sun Yon is no boss here.

Got leader, a couple of leaders. And old people, like the old Sun Yon members, so we respect them. And what's the value to the Hong Kong triad to have a New York leader? Oh, before they want to move the business to here. They want to open a light club in here. They want to open a massage party in here. And you've been in Hong Kong before? No.

No. You been in China before? I went to the airport in Hong Kong. I can say in Hong Kong and China, the club and the massage parlor is huge. It's a big different than New York. In New York it's like countryside, it's a village. It's not a city. They don't have a massage like this.

They don't have a light cup like this. In New York, in China or Hong Kong, a light club is like more than 20,000. thousand square foot got at least like five 600 girls inside a massage partner you have a profay inside you can sleep inside and they have a singer doing doing concert inside everything wow it's like compared to the one in New York is like you cannot compare it yeah it's like a man and a kid yeah yeah so that's how different it so for at first they want to move to business here, but they cannot get the license.

They did, they did come here before because I'm the one who, you know, tallest them when they're here. Yeah, they are looking at a couple of locations, try to open a light club, big light club, try to open a massage product. But when they filed the application for business, the United States already tell they are sunny orders, they don't allow, they don't get them the license. So that's why I can't open it. But you tried to open it?

Yeah, you tried before. Wow. Yeah. So, but even though it's not to sit, the, project is not just said but we do an entertainment business start doing the entertainment business quifford got connection with a Cesar Casino Atlantic City oh yeah and then we have a Caesar Caesar we have an office you know up there at Dongon Association for Caesar's bus to go into Atlantic City and for the

the singer the movie star from Hong Kong or for from Taiwan or from China, they come here to do a contract, and we start to doing those kind of business. Oh, wow. Is there still a T.O. Yeah. Connection with the Caesars in Atlantic City? Now?

Yeah. No. Prefitts pass away already. That makes sense. Wow. So you go with the triads in Hong Kong, and you get to live large there? Yeah.

Wow. You can say that. And at that time, like, the entertainment business is in Hong Kong is all controlling by the triad. Okay. The biggest triad in Hong Kong control all the entertainment business. I can say that. Wow. Okay.

Everything has to go through the triad. Yeah. The casino, the, even though you want to put this, shooting a movie, even though you want to, be an actress, everything's controlled by trial. Wow. Is it still like that today, or is that only then? No, it's different. After 97, it's different.

God. Before 97. And did the government care? Like, was the Chinese government getting involved? Before that, Hong Kong is controlled by the bridge. Right, right, right. It's not China. Now it's controlled by China.

It's different. It's no more. But when it was controlled by the British, there was more, bridge control hong by that time bridge is like they all concern is money okay that's all they concern so the triad is doing good business and keeping everything good and making them money yeah so they won't do anything they won't say anything wow okay but after uh they're not concerned about money because they already have money big difference so were the triad members working with like the british government like where they were they

They like, hey, don't look over here. Not the British government, but the Hong Kong government, you can say that. Really? Yeah. And were there members of the Hong Kong government in Triad and connected to it? Really? I've locked. Wow.

Okay. Even though when the time I'm in Hong Kong, I know, I know, you know, when I start the people in the Sunni-on in the Triad, and a couple, a old member, like a leader. like a leader, you can say a leader, but it's an old member and got pretty close to me. Like, you know, we've been having dinner, we've been handling out at night time. And a couple of them, they are inspector, their commissioner. Wow. We've been on to try it.

Wow. Yeah. And what did you like to do? Like, what was the thing that you did for fun? Did you like to gamble or did you like to party? No, I don't gamble. No, no. Did you party?

you like to drink? Yeah, yeah. Party. You know, I like car a lot. Always buy car. Went to party. Yeah. Like a girl a lot.

You like the girls. Yeah. Was it, did you ever get with like... You start saying that like the girl. The girl bummed into me. I always change girls. Okay. Only Chinese girl or was it like Russian girls, Latina girls?

Yeah, I have an Italian girlfriend before. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, wow. I have a Italian girlfriend before. I have a Singapore girl friend. girlfriend before. I've a minutiae girlfriend before.

What was the best girlfriend? Best girlfriend? Not anymore. Not anymore. All history. Oh, wow. What about Latina? You ever get with a Latina girl? No. Oh, you got to try that. I've heard good things.

Good reviews. Yeah. I mean, girlfriend, not the club girl, okay? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. is different. Wait, what do you mean?

What's the different? Cup girl is only for like one night stand or whatever. Okay, girlfriend is like study girl. Right, right. That's different, okay? But do you ever do one night with the Latina? Maybe, I forgot. I'm sorry I remember.

Almost every night, man. In China, in Hong Kong, every single night. Just going after it. Yeah. Wow. I got a friend in, uh, how long ago, I think it's like more than 10 years. When he first time went back to China,

he was getting girl morning, afternoon, and nighttime. It was all different kind of girl. And after you stay in China for a couple months, and then you come back, he's why he was campaigning, man. What the fuck you're doing? Wow. And I knew. Wow.

And so how long did you spend in Hong Kong? in that time. Was that for a couple years? Oh, I always go back and forth, back and forth. Back and forth. Every year, back and forth. And why not just stay in Hong Kong or why not stay in New York? Because by that time, I still green card. Only allowed me to stay six months.

Six months, go back, and then come back. And then go back. I try a couple times. I come back today and I leave tomorrow. Go back again. But at least I have to come back. And which one did you like better? For, okay, if you have to live there and you have to make money to, you know, to live there,

of course, the United States is better, okay? But if you only go there for fun, like you stay there a couple of months, for fun, just for fun, whatever you want to do, okay, China is better. Oh, wow. Yeah. The parties are more fun. Yeah.

That's so interesting. And did you ever spend time in mainland China, in Beijing? Yeah. And same thing. Still more fun. Yeah. That's so interesting. I feel like Americans, we don't have a perception of the fun.

It's totally different. We don't see the fun, though. Yeah. Okay, I can tell you the different is. In New York, I don't know about another state, okay? Did you went to the payboy club or they have a hustler cop in the West Side Highway? You went there before? Not to those ones, but I went to one, Sapphires.

Sapphire. Okay. Do you get a girl over there? I mean. You have to pay them, right? How much? Oh, I don't know. I actually, the one time I went, I was with a bunch of friends and they were like,

are you going to pay? And I was like, I'm just going to watch. And then she got mad at me. I remember in payboy crop, right? You get a girl, you get a cup girl over there, you pay like $300 for her to sit down and drink with you. Okay, nothing. That's it, right? Yeah. But in China, now it's expensive.

Before, at my time, it's like you pay $300 China money. It's like $30 something like, even $40. she sit with you she treat you like king just sit there open your mouth they will peel the fruit

put in your mouth okay you want to drink they will put her drink let you sip it they chew you like king 30 bucks yeah

wow and after well of course you whatever you want okay but white hair you spend $300 you have to

treat her like a critz okay Oh, you want to drink. You want what you want to eat. Right? Yeah. It's different.

Totally different. Wow. And are the clubs like that? Are they still, are there clubs like that in China now? Really? Yeah. But the price is different. Now I think it's like $1,000.

Ah. Yeah. I see. The high class, the most high class one is $2,000. Compared to U.S. dollar is $300. But still cheaper than that. right now. I think right now the Hustard Cup in West Side Highway, you spend at least like six, seven hundred for doing nothing. Right. For doing nothing. Okay? Just get a, get a Dow to sit

behind you, beside you, okay? That's it. See, I feel like as Americans, we never get to see that side of China. I feel like we always, it's like very serious or it's like, you know, we get, we see stuff in the news, but there's a, there's a whole party culture. China, like, they're not going to show you this kind of thing. Okay? They won't show you this kind of thing. But when you're traveling and you're visiting China, we're going by tourists, of course, it's different.

They're going to bring you to the museum, bring you to the whatever part. Okay. That's no fun, I tell you. But if I go with you? Yeah, yeah, that's a different story. You see the other side. Okay, you see a different side of China.

Wow. That's why Mike Cole is in China right now. Okay. Don't you even call me. Wow. Okay? That's how different is it. And do you still have fun when you go back?

Like even today? Yeah. Yeah. I still got a lot of people over there. Yeah. Sunday yon never end. Still got a lot of members in Sunday yon. Wow.

Yeah. I still knew a lot of people. And every time I go back and they will bring me to this pay, that pay. When the first time went to, To Hong Kong, this da-lau in Hong Kong, he was bringing me all the light club, oh, this one is, we control this one, this one owned by us, this one owned by every light club. Wow. And gambling, gambling house, massage parlor, all kind of stuff. Wow.

He was solding me, oh, this area, you see this side right here, it's all controlled by us. You just go up there and mention our name. And so you just show up, you maybe flash a hand sign or something and you're good to go. Yeah. Wow. And everything's free? Or it's... Before, yes.

Now I don't know. Wow. Now it's different. Before we go to light car, we get a drink, everything. You just... At the door, you have to... They have nine to get into the club every night. We don't have to.

We just go inside and show in the hand side. VIP. Okay, I'm a Sunday-on leader. And then, oh, okay, open the side door for us. And then going inside, we have a drink, everything is free. Wow. Now, the violence for the triads in Hong Kong, like, they didn't have guns, right? No.

So it was just... Because the law is too tight for guns. It's hard to get weapons in. No. No, it's not hard to get. Easy to get. You don't dare to use it. You use it, that's a life center.

Even though you miss... Okay? You use it, no matter what, that's it. You like sentence. So it's not worth it. In China, you get death sentence. Oh, really?

Yeah. China kill a lot of people every year. Death sentence. Wow. So it's safer? You do drug, you do arm robbery. That's all death sentence. Death sentence.

Death sentence. Wow. I'm talking about really death sentence. they keep you a death sentence right away these people go to bring you outside you don't have time to wait even today? Yeah

wow so like the stuff we see in the United States where you know there's a robbery and then they get released on bail even though you get caught with death sentence right here you have to wait for the hill you don't know how many years deal with it of course that

over there it's just right away wow so no one messes around And is there better surveillance? Like if you do something there, they can catch you faster? I can tell you if they want to catch you, there's a low pace to high. They have camber all over. Not like United States.

United States, you hardly see a camera. Now, yeah, maybe you can see a camera in the store, whatever. But in China, it's all over, beyond the government. All the street pole, all the light pole, all the highway, they're all over. They call sky eye. You cannot run anywhere. So if you do something. Even though you from this state to another state, they will follow you.

And their camera is different than this one, than the United States. Even though you cover your face, their computer can track your movement. and then they match on the system, they know who you are. Wow. Even with your face covered, they can tell who you are. Yeah. Wow. So you can't do anything.

Yeah. So is it safer there? Yeah, they still got some getting things going on, but it's like not exposed to the public. Wow. That's wild. Now, in America, we always hear about the social credit score. Do you know anything about that?

Social Credit Squad from China. I'm not really knew everything about that. But they were saying that, like, everybody, every subvenience, they have a social credit squad just like American. But American social credit scores for mortgage, for buying a car, whatever, for insurance, whatever. Finances. But in China, it's for your.

humanity. With your score is no, you cannot take a cap, you cannot go the airplane, you cannot buy a house, you cannot, a lot of things you cannot do. Wow. But your squad is high, you can do anything. Wow. That's they, you know, they, that's how they calm the the the squad. It's different than here. And that's real? Yeah. Wow. And they try to, they do, they do it. use cash no more. No cash? Everything's cell phone. Wow. Even though you go to the supermarket, buy a pack a cigarette, cell phone.

They have an app in a cell phone, do it like this. Wow. You get them cash? They would say, oh, I got no change, no cash. My friend tried it one time before, because he's a tallest from the United States. He don't have that app. He tried to buy, I think he's probably, try to buy an alcohol and they say, oh, you got no change. You have to use the app. So he's a terrorist. You have to use the app. We have to download the app, put the money on the air, but then use that. Wow. Yeah.

It's a different world. But that's good. I think that's good. In what way? They control everybody's money. You have something in legal money. You cannot put it under it. You do it.

That's why it's no money in laundry in China. How you got laundry your money? You can. It's all on the record. No cash. Yeah. You put the money inside, government will how much you got. You cannot hide it.

Wow. No way you can hide it. Even through like a business, you can't put it into the business or... Put it in the business still on the bank account. Okay? And they might come and say, hey, how did this money get into the bank account? Yeah. If you get a lot of cash, they will follow you.

Why, you have a lot of cash coming in? How did this restaurant make $10 million? If you don't put you in the bank account or you don't put you in the system, you cannot use it. I know there's a news come out and this is. He's a guy, I think he's a mayor from some kind of state in China, and he got busted, and then they found out the back, he's sleeping, right under his back is all US dollar. It's a couple of million, billion, and then I think it's billion and a million. The whole back down there, under the bed.

Wow. Because he got no place to $100. Wow. So you're just stuck with this money you can't spend? Yeah. When he got wasted and they found out all the money's over there. Wow. That's crazy.

And so you spend time there and then you come back here and then go back there and back and forth. And that's kind of how things have been for the past couple years. For a lot of years. For until... Until everything's finished. Yeah. Until everything's finished. But it's still going bad.

Yeah. For Fissett. And then the T.O. boss that was here, Clifford. Yeah. What happened to him? He got cop out for three life sentence. But he got out, I think it's four years ago. He got out from jail.

You know why? Because he got cancer. One thing's trained. I don't know why. Because I know a couple of guys, they are doing life sentence in jail, but they always thank me out when you get cancer. Hmm.

They kick him out right away. I guess they don't want to be responsible. Maybe. If someone dies. But he's got life-centered. How do you go to just let this guy out for, outside for at least like get up reason? Right?

Mm-hmm. I don't know why. Clifford, I know Clifford got out like four or five years ago, I cannot remember. And then he went back to Hong Kong, stay Hong Kong for two years, and then he passed away. Did you see him before he passed away? No. But I heard from his brother. Yeah, he was telling me he passed away.

Do you wish you saw him? Do you wish that you got to see him? What for? Yeah. I guess the business was done. You guys were. Yeah. It's done.

When you're separate ways. Yeah. Wow. He got no connection. Even though before he got wasted, I got no connection with him no more. Did you respect him as a leader? Before, yes. Yeah.

Before yes. What do you mean before? Before when I become a Sunday on. After I become a son, Yon, just like a partner. We work together. That's it. Got it. It became more business.

I see. After, like, we're doing a business for an entertainment business. and then I step back on the street. The street thing, let somebody take care of it. So don't let the heat, you know, close to me. And for a couple of years, until the Fed do a investigate for all the Chinatown gang. And then I went back to Hong Kong.

And before, even though before I remember in Hong Kong, I was telling you that. I was telling them, you guys better stop. I know they open the file. Okay, they will come down soon or later. They didn't stop. They won't listen.

It's not that they won't listen. It's like, okay, let's do two more time. That's it. I couldn't stop after two times. The money's too good. That's it. That two time got rested. Wow.

That's tough. And so now you still get respect when you go through Chinatown. People still see you and they still respect to. That's cool. But there's no game. in China, I tell you. It's all. It's all gone.

But the old people in China, yeah, yeah, they're still a little bit. Association member, the old member, like the female Eastern member. Mm-hmm. The old people, yeah. They, yeah, I respect them before those, they respect me. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it's mutual.

Yeah. But the young kids, they don't know. There's no more young kids. What do you mean? Chinatown. There's no more kids? I don't see any kid. Really?

China time is getting old. Why? The young people, they don't want to stay in China town. They always move out in China town. Only the old people, you know, they can know where they can go. They only speak Chinese. They're out of China, they cannot, you know, they cannot support themselves. They stay in China.

So I don't see any young generation in China. That's interesting. I was thinking, like, after. Five or ten years, Chinatown is gone. Really? New York, Chinatown, is gone. Does that make you sad? Does it make you sad?

Yeah. That's why we want to, we open this channel. We want the young generation, we want to keep our history, we want the young generation know what happened in Chinatown before. It's not like here right now. Okay, it's not like now, now, it's like, it's like a different Chinatown from back. them. I'm much different.

And what are the biggest differences now? The biggest difference is the economy. Now you go to a Chinatong after 9 o'clock, nobody in the street. Before, we go clubbing. After clubbing, it's like 4 or 5 o'clock in the morning. We go get a late light sled. We have to stay in the line waiting for the table. It's packed.

Pat, always. But now it's nobody. I don't know why. And you hardly see a youngest generation walking down in China. It's always old people, all the old people. Before it's like all the young people. That's interesting. Do you think the culture has assimilated too much with like American culture and now people go out?

That's why I thought it's like every community. I can say like every community. You don't have a dark side with it. Like you don't have a dark side business with it. the committee will very, very slow and quiet. Before China, I have over 20 gambling house. 24 hours and stop. The gambling house customer, they want money,

they go to a restaurant and having a huge dinner, okay? They go to a massage, light clubs, always every Egypt business is packed every day. Commerce. Yeah. After no more, wow, shit. You see the restaurant, this one closed, this one closed.

Even the restaurant in China for more than 70 years and they closed out. They've got no business, not anymore. Yeah, it's a shame. Just like last year I went out China. I went to this, I forgot the name of it, in Doyle Street. It's been a bakery. It's been a long decade in China. It's like over 70 years.

The owner knew me, the owner saw me, and then we had conversations. He was saying that night, not like before, we had no business. For gambling house, people come down, oh, two dozen, whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah. Everybody comes to buy bakery. You know, for the customer. Now, nothing. What's the best Chinese restaurant in Chinatown that you like to go to? Before or now?

Now. Depend what kind of style. What kind of style of food you want? I have no idea. Wu Zhou style, Wu Lam style, Canton style. Oh, that's one really good. I don't know the English name. You know where's Tongan Association?

Dongstead, that's a restaurant. Downstairs of the Restaurant Association. Yeah, they just opened not even a year. That best, the DEMSAM is really good. And where is it? Do you know what street? 27th Division. 27th Division. I'm going to go.

What's the chart? Golden Palace. I think the English name, Golden Palace. Golden Palace. Yeah, the DIMSat really? Yeah. It stands your test. Yes.

Wow. Just white ground floor at Tongan Association. Wow. Tongan is on the second floor. He's on the first floor. Of the social club? Yeah. Oh wow.

That one's pretty good. And the social club is still operating. Yeah, it's still operating. And it's still popular. People play MJ. The building, because the building is owned by them. Right. Yeah.

So you see all the social club in Chinatown. The buildings are owned by the social club. Like you see this building, they have a but-b-bub association. That means this building is owned by this association. Wow. So they never move. What about Wohop? You ever been to Woh-Hub.

Woh-Hap, I think they changed the shirt. Oh, really? Now it's big different. Before it's good. Before it was a spot? Yeah. That was like a late night. The Sharp retired already.

Too old. Too old. Even Hap Ghi. Hapdi, the Shepi retired already. So they have the new Sharp. Those taste different. For Diemsen, the one I mentioned about is good. And that's the one in Maast Street,

calling Sing Fai. That one's pretty good, too. Did you ever have experience with any Japanese Yakuza gangs? Before they got busted. We tried to open a gambling house together. Really? Yeah, you know, 50 3rd Street and 2nd and 3rd Avenue. You try to open a gambling house with the Yakuza.

Yeah. And what happened? They got busted by fair. Oh, really? Before the gambling house opened, they got busted. Busted for gambling or something else? For the recateering. Ah, Zoriko.

Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. But there wasn't operating Yakuza in New York City. Before they did. But I know, you can tell. When you walk down, I don't know now, because I hardly go down to our uptime right now. Between 49 and 56, between 49 and 56, 2nd 3rd Avenue,

you see those people wearing suit, tired, holding a walkie-talkie walking around. Holding a walkie-talkie. Just on the street walking around. before. Now I don't know they have it or not. You know what they do? That's all Japanese. They are the host for the Lycah. Oh, really? Japanese like, okay? They will like look for a customer.

Like you walk by it. They will come to you. You want to go to Lycault? You want to have fun? You want a Japanese girl? And then they will bring you up upstairs, whatever, a place. That's a Japanese likeup over there. Run by Yakuza? Yeah. Oh wow. Before. But now I don't know they still have it. Maybe they still have that because it's like business, okay?

So like a business. Right. You see those people holding a walkie-talkie. That's the people. That's Yakuza. Yeah. Wow. And there was never any conflict with the Chinese gang and the Japanese gang.

We get along. Interesting. We always get along. Because they come to our massage parlor. We go to their massage parlor. Always. Is going to massage parlor? Is that a...

Like if someone wanted to go that wasn't, you know, Chinese or Japanese, is there any risk? Yeah, a lot of American people go. All the time. Yeah. Before I have one, two, three, I opened three massage parlor in China and uptown. A lot of American people go up. So a lot of the Chinese, or a lot of the massage parlors, were they owned at one time by gangs? Not really.

No. Some were gang and then some were just regular. No, yeah. With the place owned by a gang and they don't need a protection by other gang. You saw someone do a security. You saw a gang member doing security. That means the owner is like Egypt people, business bank. And then they have security.

Yeah, they have higher security over there. Ah, interesting. And the massage parlors, you can get a full regular massage. And then you can do. That's two different kind of massage parlor. Okay. One is regular. One is not regular.

And how do you tell the difference? As long you step in, they will tell you. Oh, really? Yeah. They tell you? They want a full service? They will ask you. Because they want to make money.

That kind of massage powder, of course they got to ask you. You only want to massage? They don't want to do that. They don't can make money. They want to make money. You don't want to do the whole world. How do they go to make money, right? So you walk in, they say, do you want full money?

service. Yeah. And you say no. They'll say, they'll say, they'll ask you. They say, they will ask you, okay?

When you stepped in, they will see, like, how many people you have and they would say, uh, what kind of service you want? You want a full surface? And then they kneel.

Okay. Oh, I just want a two-hour massage. Oh, you have to wait. Oh, really? That, that kind of massage problem. But then you say full service and they go, okay.

Yeah, that kind of massage powder. Regular massage parlor, they will ask you like how many hour you are. Okay, different. By the way they talk. You can tell. Interesting.

Oh, that's funny. As long as that being, he would ask you, oh, how many hours? You say, oh, one hour is good. That means that they only do regular the massage truck. Wow. Okay. Have you ever gotten full service? Have you had full service?

I've been open to the massage pot before. I've been open to three massage parts. Okay. All different kinds of massage parts. All different kinds. Yeah. Wow. Now, you had mentioned that you learned English in prison.

Yeah. Because your English is great. It's really, really good. But you learned it while you were locked up. Yeah. And you were in Rikers Island? Yeah, Rikers Island. I was in...

I was in Wackers Island. I was in Beachport. Yeah, Warkers Island Beachport. What was the worst prison? Warkers Island. It's bad. Because I was in 74. And what's 74?

Out of lesson. Juvena. C-74 building is four. people who underage. So when you went, you were still under age? Yeah. Only 17. Oh, wow.

And you were wrongfully locked up. Mm-hmm. And they called it 74 is Animal House. They called it Animal House. Yeah. Wow. Because all hours lessened. Wow.

And were there a lot of fights? Almost every day. And you had to fight? No. They don't mess with me. And why didn't they mess with me? with you? Because there's a inmate

before me. It's a Chinese guy. He's belonged to the gang too. He belonged to my gang too. And he's a gong fu master. He was a kung fu master? Yeah. So he got beef with

other yemate. And he started with them and they beat them up. And then the vice got coming in. And, and, and, you know, And he, one person beat the whole fucking vice car.

Just doing Kung Fu? Yeah. Wow. You know, the Vice guy holding a steak, coming in, holding a hammer. He's one guy. He's doing a kick. The whole shields fire out. Okay.

Like Bruce Lee? Yeah. His nickname is Bruce Lee. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. I call him Bruce Lee. Yeah.

He really, he's crazy in Kung Fu. He's amazing. Yeah, you can say he's amazing, but he's crazy. He's like, I saw him practice. Like before he got arrested, he was inside doing murder. And I saw him doing practice, using one finger, holding a wood, a wood, he can make a hole in it. With one finger? Yeah.

Wow. So he does... His finger, his hand, right? Normally, normally, finger is not going to eat. His four fingers even. All the same. Yeah, because he punch it every day. Wow.

Four fingers even. And he's fit, right? He's fit with you holding a... Before the carp using a steak, that patan, now is using a patan, before using a stick, right? He can easily, a kick, break it. He could break the stick?

Yeah. Wow. And he's always. It was fast, man. You cannot even see where his feet go. He's real good. He can use one card, the pain cart. He was holding a card like this.

And the walls right here, he can, the cards go inside the wall. Like a brick wall? Yeah. What? It's crazy. I tell him he's crazy. And so he goes in and he fucks everybody up.

Yeah. And then you go in. And they think you're a kung fu-master. They thought all the Chinese people is like this. So they don't do. That's the one reason. The other reason is because I was arrested for murder. Right.

By hand, using hand. That's what they accused you of. Yeah. Oh, wow. No weapon using hand. Okay? So they thought I'm a Kung Fu master too. They don't mess up with me.

Wow. Yeah, the coast, they, the inmates and me, my house, they do my dog. And they are very friendly with me. So they were, they were being raised. against you saying that all Chinese people know Kung Fu, but it worked out in your favor. The racism worked. Wow. So you never had to fight? Yeah, a couple of times. You know, the Liu Jia coming in. Try to prove something.

The Liu Jia coming in or he's like, oh, fucking Chinna, what you fucking do in here? You want to know what I'm fucking doing here? Go inside of Shao. I saw you what I'm fucking doing here. Wow. And you would fuck him up? Yeah. Wow. And afterward, when somebody tried to mess with me, I was going back my shell and, you know, change back my sneaker. And then the RP will tell him, don't mess with him, man. You go get killed.

He killed someone using his hand. And then they say, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Back up. Wow. Yeah. And you were in for a year and a half? In Rockies? Yeah.

A little bit more than a year. And then do it another year in Beachport. Wow. And did you have a job there? Yeah. What was your job? Wow. I'm working as a mass hall.

I work as a suicide team. And I'm working in the capitol room. Wow. And what was the, what were your cellmates like? What you mean, cellmate? Did you have a cellmate with you in the cell? Oh, my cellmate. Oh, my cellmate is a big dude.

A black guy, muscle, six, four. If I stand behind him, you cannot see me. But me and him's real close. That's how I learned English. He teaches me English. You learned English from a black guy. Yeah. Before when I first got arrested, I was, you know,

tell my family he sent me the book with the Chinese book. But after a while, all books is finished. Nothing to read. At the late time. It's like boring, right? So I was calling my cellmaker, hey, you got any book, but you're in English. So I don't understand. So I asked him, what this means.

How do you say this word? What this means? He was teaching me. every night. So that's how I know my English. Oh, wow. Yeah. Did you, like, listen to hip hop?

Did you, like, learn about black culture while you were in Rikers? Sort of, yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. You can say that, yeah. Were there any funny things that you noticed culturally about being in Rikers about, like, Spanish people or black people that you were like, oh, that's funny. That's different than how we do it. Oh, Spanish people don't get along with black people.

Always. Really? Yeah. Black people don't like Spanish. But black people. It's not a troublemaker, I tell you. Always Spanish people. Oh, really?

Trouble maker. They were causing trouble. Yeah. With, I got argument with Spanish people, the black people go to come over my side and kick them out. Oh, wow. Always. Spanish people always make trouble. Hmm.

Yeah. And they were picking trouble with you or with everyone? Everyone. Hmm. Still something, you know, still people's stuff. And saying bad word to. people always, always got beat up, Spanish people. Really?

Yeah. What about white guys? White guy, they are like me, they quiet. Oh, really? Yeah. Most of them, they quiet. Hmm. They're just doing their time, and they don't bother other people by their own business.

It's pretty good. Was there any cultural things you picked up in prison that you kept with you? like anything like from a different culture from yours that you were like oh I'm gonna do this or like I'm gonna I'm gonna do this type of thing

I remember like you don't listen to hip hop now yes it's still listening oh really yeah do you know what kind of artist do you listen to that you liked

no with the song at night at night I don't remember who was saying that I remember the song that said

um when I first, you know, when I first inside and get along with the black people and, oh, they teach me how to wear duet. The duress duet? The duress? Yeah. You never see a Chinese people where I do a rat.

No. They teach me. I wear a duet. They make a duet for me. Wait, really? Yeah. And you wore a duress? Yeah, inside.

Because, Warker's like, you're not doing, you're not sentenced. Right. You are still in detention, right? And you don't have to cut your hair. So my hair go real long. So they make a dune for me holding my hair. Did they braid it? Did they braid your hair?

Yeah. Like in the cornrows? Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, that's so fun. Inside they do anything. Inside they make tattoo and everything.

Would they make what? Tatoon. Oh, the tattoo. Yeah. Did you get any tattoos? No, not inside. I got my tattoo on Hong Kong. Oh, what tattoo do you have?

What do you have? Dragon and uh... Uh, peacock. Oh, wow. Dragon and Picard. And what does it symbolize? Okay. Before, I was in San Francisco, and I did something bad, I went to San Francisco and worked in this

American restaurant as a, you can say as a health chef, you know, making Remberweig, whatever. The store links to me. Vietnam needs to pay, help people doing tattoo. So he was coming in the restaurant every day, getting breakfast, lunch. So we have conversation. So after a while, he was,

I make you a tattooing for free. And then he made me a dragon, American dragon, not Chinese dragon. You know, American dragon got winged. like, you know, the style is different. Yeah. Okay. And maybe a tiger.

But the tiger, instead going up, the tiger is coming down from the mountain. That's no good for Chinese. Oh, really? Because tigers belong to the forest. With the tiger coming down to the forest, to the city, he will be catch. Okay, so he made me a tiger coming down from the mountains like this, coming down.

And the dragon is an American dragon. At first, I didn't thought those kind of things because I'm still young. The time I'm still young. So after I got a tattooing, I stayed there for two years, and then I come back to New York. After the heat is gone, come back to New York.

And then every time something happened in like involving a gang, Chinatong gang. The car first one, they called me. How they called me? Oh, dragon, tiger, is you. Come here. And then, like, but every time I get the case dismissed. And then when I first went to Hong Kong,

so my oldest brother, oldest good brother, And telling me that, man, do something for your tattooment. People easy can tell and it's ugly. They say it's ugly, right? So I went to this popular place, like almost all the movie star and all the triad leader and this guy's doing tattoo for them. So I went there and did another two tattoos and covered up. So that's true.

Oh, wow. Yeah, cover the old one. So I still got the old one inside, but he made the other one. cover it. Yeah, it's been more than 40 years already. Oh wow. So interesting. So so and you said your nickname is big head. A lot of people call me big head. Why do they call you big head? I don't know. They like to. But you just got the nickname randomly? People start calling me dickhead. It's because the channel. Ah. Yeah. Oh so it was later. Yeah. It wasn't when you were in T. O. They all

called me T. T.O. Jimmy. T. T. They always called me T. T. T. T. T. Tio Jimmy. Yeah. Even though the cop called me, T.O. Jimmy. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, interesting. But did a lot of people have nicknames?

Yeah. Almost everybody. Really? And what were the common nicknames? Tiger Boy. Onionhead. Onionhead? Yeah.

Mickey Mouse. A lot. All different kinds. Oh, wow. Yeah. All different kind. What would my nickname? be?

What would my nickname be? That's dependent. I have to like get, know you better and see how your society is. And then we know, you know, what to call you. You got long hair. Neutral head, maybe? Neutral head maybe? Maybe you can call like for Chinese nickname, very popular Chinese nickname for long hair.

We call it a Chinese nickname. It's like long hair. Okay, charm mold. Yeah. Oh, I like that. Charmot. It's been long. Moll is the hair.

So, charm mold. Charmour. You call it. I got big hair. Maybe my head is big. Maybe they think my head is big. So they call it big hat, you still remember. And because Jimmy, a lot of people call Jimmy.

Big hat is like, I lot of people call big hat. Okay, so they start calling me Big Head. And, uh, uh, uh, I don't know why. All the guys are like that they're like there. Mm. Yeah. That's interesting. we don't want our real name to expose the newspaper.

So always use a nickname. Always a nickname. Yeah. Interesting. And when you were born, your parents didn't name you Jimmy, right? No, no. When I come here, my uncle, register, help me register for a school, junior high school, and used the name Jimmy.

He just picked it. Yeah, because that time, the United States president, he said Jimmy Carter. Oh, wow. Yeah. So he was like... That's why you used to Jimmy. That's a popular American name? Yeah.

Yeah, then you use it. Wow. Yeah. Well, T.O. Jimmy, this was awesome. Thank you so much for coming on. You're welcome. And sharing your story. You're welcome.

This was absolutely amazing. Genuinely, I really enjoyed hearing about your life. I'll just, I'll open it up. Are there any stories or anything that you didn't share that you want to share that you think would be interesting for people to know? I'll just give you the floor. A lot. A lot. I want me to tell my whole life story.

You're going to. Yeah, going to. Yeah. That's awesome. And if people want to see your channel, they can go to Chinatown Gang Stories. And you tell even more stories there. Yeah. We will uploading a video soon.

And yeah, we will find a lot of people to, you know, do the interview. Amazing. If you want to. Tio Jimmy, thank you so much, brother. I really appreciate this. Let's do this again soon. Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you.