Camp Gagnon - Colin and Samir on MrBeast Doc, Ghost Stories, & NEW YouTube Hacks

Episode Date: May 29, 2023

Colin and Samir sat down with me today to talk about their MrBeast documentary, seeing ghosts, aliens, algorithm hacks, and so much they've never talked about anywhere else. WELCOME TO CAMP.Thanks to BlueChew, The Freeze Pipe, & Morgan & Morgan for sponsoring today's episode!Mark Gagnon is our HostWill Schwartz is our Content Producer and Lead EditorGabriel Reyes is our Community ManagerKostis Zacho, Gabriel Reyes, & Theodore Bukvic are our Clips Editors

Aliens, yes or no. Abduction is totally understandable. Okay. I'm like, I was going to clip calling on that. To actually be with like 20 plus thousand people, a bunch of cops and people being like, this is out of control. Have you ever seen Dunkirk? They're all running. But like, you know the rhythm of Dunkirk?

Yeah. When do you decide to give up on a podcast episode? Because that's what I was doing in the moment. Do you want to say which podcast? Yeah, do you want to help? What a cool opportunity to talk about just stuff we would never talk about anywhere else. This is Colin Rosenblum and Samir Chaudry, aka Colin and Samir. They run one of my favorite YouTube channels on the platform highlighting the inner workings of content creators.

From long-form interviews, studio tours, and even documentaries, they've spent countless hours with the best creators on the platform. And today, they explain how they sold their first business at 25 years old for six figures. The time Samir discovered a ghost in his house, and they even discussed what they had to cut out from their infamous Mr. Beast documentary. This combo was so much fun, and I really think showed a side of Colin and Samir that most people really don't get to see. I'm really, really grateful that they took the time to sit down and chop it up with me. So without further ado, enjoy my conversation with Colin and Samir. Welcome to camp. I never really gotten fights growing up, though.

I feel like the closest I ever got was just drinking too much in college and trying to go the smart-ass route. Oh, yeah. Like talking too much. Yeah. And then being fortunate that I had like a six foot five lineman for a friend. Hell yeah. You know, who would just like grab me by the shoulders and be like, nope. So you were supposed to get in fights?

I would have, I think, a couple times. What was the time that you were supposed to get fucked up? There was one time at the Walrus in Boulder, Colorado where I was like talking about a lot of shit. Why? Because I'm, To who? You know how I dance? To whom?

Yeah. When I'm out, like, I take up more space than I should. Yeah. And I have a disregard for the people around me because I feel like my moves are meant to be seen. And I have like an absurd amount of confidence when I'm on a dance floor. It's almost weird, right? Like, it's not a version of me that people would think exist. And if you go to a wedding, you're like, you're the one.

There's footage. Yeah. At my wedding. I don't know if it's borderline too much or if it is too much. It's not for me to decide, I don't think. Yeah. I mean, if you feel like it's. borderline, then it's definitely too much.

It's definitely too much. Yeah, it's like that guy at the wedding needs to cool it because it's not his wedding, you know? He needs to chill out. And I'm doing that for years, and I was doing it a lot in college, obviously, and bumping into people, which is like annoying. Yeah. And taking up space on the dance floor and a disregard for their space.

Yeah. Yeah. And then when people would hit me, I would like, you know, I would just chirp them a little bit with whatever I had in my head at the moment. And my friend Marty would always, he would just come over and, like, grab me by the waist with like basically one hand and be like I'm sorry about my friend and just move me just put you over his shoulder and walk out he would basically just be like you're done that's it is this just the plot of Saturday night fever like I feel like this is

you're like you got in a barfack because you're doing the hustle yeah yeah what world is my moves were too aggressive yeah like what girl were you're like it wasn't a girl it was the spirit of dance it was just for the space on the floor yeah that's beautiful well I think we officially started all right we have Colin and Samir here here we The Lax Boys, as I call them. Wow. Yeah. I know you're from the lacrosse days.

I don't even care about anything you've done since that. La Crosse is really, I think, where you guys picked. We get a lot of comments that, like, people who just come across it, like our channel, and they're just like, wait, aren't these the lacrosse guys? Or like, someone commented the other day. They were like, talk about lacrosse guys. Yeah. And it's like, come on. We've gotten that comment since the beginning.

Yeah. Even when you were talking about lacrosse. Talk about lacrosse differently. No, not really. But when we started Colin and Samir, I think like. like it was such a hard pivot from what we were doing. Yeah. Like I think everyone expected when we announced a channel called Colin and Samir because we were coming from making content about lacrosse.

Yeah, of course. A different version of that. And the first upload was like so different. It was like us being like, let's explore our artistic side. Yeah. And everyone was like, wait, what? What is this? Yeah, I grew up with a lot of lacrosse players, as we were just saying, grew up right next to Lake Highland, a bunch of friends I went to.

One of the best the cross programs in the country. None of them were particularly artsy. These guys didn't strike me as like a true artistic savant. You know what's interesting? I don't think they were making beautiful things. On the West Coast, like where I was growing up, because lacrosse wasn't really a thing and then it became a thing. But everyone who played, they were all like artsy kids because we weren't going to play

football. Oh, hilarious. So it was just like, how do we like run around and do something cool and like play a sport but not play football? So then it was all the artsy kids like musicians, filmmakers, like that's the kids in L.A. who played lacrosse. Oh, that's so funny. And so when I learned about the stereotype of the East Coast,

I was like, whoa, that's, that's weird. Like when people would like describe me as like, oh, he's a lax bro. I was like, yeah, doesn't that just mean like an artist? Yeah. Yeah, it's me and Timothy Shalama. We're just the lax bros of our community. Honestly, we had some guys on my high school team who kind of had a Shalameh vibe. Yeah.

I remember telling someone, like I work at the lacrosse network when we were in L.A. And someone just goes, I'm surprised you're not a douchebag. Like that was like an immediate response sort of. Like that stereotype was so strong. I think that's what compelled us to make the content we made was to try and change the stereotype. Of lacrosse player. Because we were into the sport and we didn't connect with that identity at all. And we're like, how interesting that that's the identity.

And the only way, like the way you shift ideology is through media. So it was like, I wonder if we can kind of show our version of this. And could we then influence the younger kids to be like, let's rebrand this whole thing. Yeah. Well, I will say in my time in high school, around 2014, 2015, the message that you guys were preaching didn't really get there. Okay? A lot of guys shown up to schools

just like in lax, like pennies. Like that was just like a traditional school outfit. Just straight up penny. You can only do so much, you know. Yeah, yeah. Like crop top. That was the nail in our head. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like big sunglasses like with the rainbow on the top, visor vibes. Yeah, you can't. You're also in Florida, so. That's true. Yeah, yeah, that's just, that was actually required to wear that. That was your uniform. Yeah, there was nothing we could do about Florida.

Yeah, it was just like a lost cop. Yeah. Did you guys play on the same team? No, no, we didn't. But we would play like pickup after like after college. Yeah. And we were working together. We would go out and play pickup and, you know.

But you guys just independently played the cross and then became friends? Yeah. I grew up playing in L.A. And then I went to school in Northern California at UC Santa Cruz. Okay. Which was an awesome place to go to school. Why? Is that like a party school?

It's not a party school. I mean, there's, it's very hard to party there because all the houses are, there's no like college area. So you're just living in a house next to like a family. There's no area where all the college kids live. And then when I went to school, there was no Uber. So you couldn't get around. So there was no parties. And there was like noise ordinances. It was like a nice beach town. Yeah. So it was much more. And that really challenged my version of being in college because all my friends were at big state schools or USC and Arizona and like going to football games. And I really wanted that life and was at UC Santa Cruz and didn't have it. And so.

So it made me focus on completely different things because you just didn't have that. Yeah. So I loved to go to school there, but lacrosse was one of the things I focused on. I played club lacrosse there. It was really fun. And again, going to UC Santa Cruz, you're with the hippies and artists who are playing lacrosse. So that was really fun. And then after college, I started a YouTube channel about lacrosse.

And Colin went to Colorado, grew up in New Jersey. And then we met through a documentary he was making about the Colorado Club LaCross team. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, so you were playing club lacrosse. Oh, I thought you guys, like, grew up near each other. No, no, opposite coasts. Oh, weird.

But weirdly similar experience with, like, just growing up. Yeah. So you grew up in Jersey? Yeah. So were you aware of the duchy lacrosse stereotype? Like, I feel like it's much more prevalent. Yeah, I mean, I was in the heart of it. I went to a private school.

I'm him. Yeah, like a small private school in New Jersey and, you know, I wore yellow pants with like patterned dolphins all over them and, you know, ridiculous pastel shirts and things like that. You know, I wore a tie every day from the age of, from six. grade on every day yeah like we had a dress code it wasn't just like I chose to wear it no no no no I was going to say we should end this post that it wasn't like the lone kid but but yeah that was the environment I grew up in and you know all I wanted to do was play college

lacrosse and then realized you know when I was trying to get recruited I was like five six 110 pounds and it's just like that wasn't that good it wasn't going to happen and transferred to being more of an artistic kid I guess towards the end of of high school yeah but Yeah, I ended up playing at Colorado, which was club lacrosse, and picked up a camera. And I started filming them just to like tell stories and learn how to use a camera. Right, you just film what's around. Yeah, it was just like, this is like the people that I have access to. Yeah.

Yeah, and it was through that. I told stories that were not really about lacrosse. It was about the people. My inspiration was like, you know, skate videos and like MTV and stuff like that. So it was really about the lifestyle of the kids there. Did you skate a lot growing up? Yeah. Oh, really?

What's like your? favorite skate part. Do you have one that like comes to mind and you're like dude? Yeah. This is the one. I have one. It was a Chad Muska in Shorty's fulfilled the dream. Yes, dude. Did you, did you watch his fully, was it fully latered? What's the device series that they're doing? Epic later. Yeah. Yeah. Unreal. Also RIP vice. Yeah. How crazy is that. Yeah. Yeah. That's a bummer. I don't know where. But that era of skate videos was the first time I was like, whoa, you can make movies just with your friends and the camera you have. Yeah.

No one talks about how much skate culture influenced what exists today. Influence just like digital media. Big time. Like there's so many people I know that like are making amazing shit and they're like, yeah, I just started doing skate parts as a kid. Yeah. It gave you a canvas to film too. Like I was bad at skating.

Me and my friends were not good. Yeah. But we would make skate videos. Like we would just OLLI. Like we would just go around doing OLLIS and we would film it and then you'd edit it and you put music to it. Like the first time we learned. And then it was also so much more about like whatever you were getting up to outside of skating.

Right? Like being, we used to skate in Westwood, which is close to UCLA. And we'd like run around and get pizza and do weird stuff. And like that's what the videos were about. Yeah. It just so happened we'd like, Ollie. Sometimes Ollie. Yeah.

And then the occasional all right. And then like, ride skateboards to get the pizza. Someone would try a kickflip, but we'd like cut before they didn't land it. You know, zoom out. Yeah. I was like, favorite when like you would like go up to do a kickflip and throw the board. I almost had it.

I almost had it. Dude, if my heel wasn't in the pebble. Put one foot down on it. I was a frustrating experience trying to learn a skate trick. Oh my gosh. I mean, is the worst. Like,

I was always like, I liked bowls and kind of like vert shit because I didn't have to like get off the ground. Yeah, you have real vert energy. Yeah, you do. Yeah,

I appreciate that, bro. You have early 90s vert energy. Yeah. That was actually the name of my skate part, it was Verr Energy. Mark Agnon, big bird energy,

dude. And yours was called Occasional Ollie. Yeah. Mine was always one foot on the board. Johnny one foot. Johnny one foot. That's sick.

Occasional Ollie is such a funny. Skap man. They're like, these guys just love eating pizza. Like, what is often? You just regressily get fatter and fatter in every episode. It's like,

these guys almost never skateboard. I mean, that's like how Jackass started, right? Yeah. It's like, it was like a lot of skateboarding and they're like, oh, he stapled his back. And then, oh, he keeps stapling his back.

And then they skate sometimes. And then there's just no skating in it. And like it just came out of out of skate culture. It was awesome. There was something inspiring about the fact, too, that no one else would have paid to film what they were doing. Like it had to come from within because there was no money in it. A million percent.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We felt a little bit of that in lacrosse. Like, no one's going to put this on ESPN at the time. It is now. But back then, it was like, no one's going to film the stories of these people. Yeah. Like actually, you know what I mean? So I guess we'll do it from within.

Yeah. I think we've always felt like that, which is what Colin and Samir started as. I mean, yeah, YouTube creators. Yeah, it was just like, no one's a YouTube creator for six years ago. No one's talking about this stuff. Now it's like, you know, in Rolling Stone or in like Forbes and like people are talking about it. But six years ago, no one was talking about it. Then we were like, these people are cool.

These are our friends and we want to tell their stories. Yeah. So that's like, that's always been what's inspired us. And I definitely think it's because both of us grew up watching skate videos. Yeah. And like seeing that storytellers come from within a community. Yeah. And always disconnected from the money, like the financial gain.

Like you look like the rap movement of like the 90s, late 80s. Dude, like 100%. Like, there's no money in rap music. Like, what even is it? And it's just the people that are within the culture that love it, that then blow it up. Yeah. And then everyone else tries to get in, the labels and all that shit. Yeah.

But it always starts, like, organically within the culture. Totally. So you guys eventually, do you ever play, like, competitive, like, club lacrosse together? No, we, so, okay. Men's league. Guys. Club lacrosse is really built out to the point where there's divisions. So I was a Division II club lacrosse player.

He was a Division I, a Division I club lacrosse player. You're better? Yeah, I think Colts better. Let's talk about it. Let's open it up. Who's better at lacrosse? Colin, for sure. Samir understands the game better than I do.

I was a better coach. No doubt. I ended up coaching. Yeah, he's a coach. This is how my black friends compliment white people and, like, football. He's a high IQ guy. He's like, Samir, fundamentals. He gets it.

Samir is high IQ player. Yeah, I'm in, you know. I'm a first generation. You need someone to score the goal at the end of the game. Probably give it to me. Yeah, okay. I'm a first generation. Indian immigrant. Like there was no lacrosse in my, you know, family. There was no like,

there was no sports. Even though Indians invented lacrosse. Just the wrong ones, but yeah, that's right. That's right. And I played cricket. Would have been a different story. Yeah, that's true. My dad was a college cricket player. Was he really? Yeah. He played cricket. Wow. I mean, that's similar to the cross. It's just down here versus up here. Yeah, yeah, but he was a, he was a baller. Oh, shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you play baseball? No. That's like offensive. No, no, no. To like to your father. It's not offensive. How dare you? Bastrodize. I couldn't get into baseball, man. It was like it couldn't get into the culture of it. Also I grew up in like a non-American household like baseball was not it wasn't I had no nostalgia to it. There was nothing unlike lacrosse which is

like built into the culture. Yeah exactly. Was lacrosse your way of like rebelling against your parents or like immerse yourself into whiteness? I had many other ways to do that which was the way I dressed. You know kind of rebelling against speaking the language like again speaking Hindi and like actively not not like actively unlearning it almost like they talk to you in Hindi and then you respond in English yeah and like my brother knows how to write and read and like can speak Hindi pretty fluently and now I desperately want to speak it that's hilarious but like when I was in when I was an adolescent it was really tough because I'd go to school and I didn't want to be different the only thing you want to be when you're a teenager is the same like you want to fit in

yeah you want to be cool and and at that time being different wasn't cool I think now being different is really cool. Yeah, it's like a thing. But at that time, being different was not cool. And so I was desperately trying to not be different. And I would like, I could pick up on how people were speaking and I could emulate, you know, how to talk. And I was just trying my best to learn how to fit in and how to, not only how to fit in, but how to be cool in school. And that was like my study.

I remember watching American Pie and being like, oh, that's how they do it. And what's funny is that they played lacrosse in American Pie. I never put that together, but it's maybe something that guided me in that direction of like, that's what you're supposed to do. This is what it means to be a cool American guy. Bang a milf. Yeah. Bang a pie. Play lacrosse.

Intersection of like party guy and athlete. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the American dream. Athlete who doesn't try too hard, but it's still good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He doesn't care, but he's the best. He's not like that into sports, but he's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's annoying about coolness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm like these guys. Yeah, yeah.

kind of goal score. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just nonstop. Yeah. Body guy. And so you guys eventually link up, you like just message him and you're like, no.

He messaged him. He messaged. I think like the, I put out one video about lacrosse and, you know, lacrosse is a pretty small community. I managed to reach out to pretty much everyone who could possibly support it. Yeah. And told them I'd put their logo at the end of the video.

Yeah. And so this video came out and all the blogs shared it. And he reached out that day, I think. Yeah, Colin was putting it out on Vimeo. And I was an artist. Yeah. You know, I was, I had just started this company called the lacrosse network, which is, my vision was a television network.

Corporate guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. That's a difference. Big capitalist. Yeah. This guy just obsessed with it. You're trying to do something. I'm just trying to make some art.

Just Wes Anderson, like lacrosse did it. I would rather know, no one watched it. Yeah. Just looking for symmetrical frames. I looked at it and I was like, I remember this like, there's only been a few times in my career and in my life where I'm like, I can't sleep until that happens. You know, and I was just, I remember telling my brother, I was like, I need this show on the network. And like, I need to work with these guys. And it was him and a filmmaking partner at the time. And because I watched it and I was like, this is exactly what we need. We need like stories of characters. It doesn't matter that they play lacrosse. They're good characters. There's college kids who are playing lacrosse. And so I sent him like a really long, very professional email. I was like, I'm the president of an up and coming sports network called La Crosse Network. And a close connection that works closely in hand with Google.

Wow. Now, for the record, the lacrosse network is your thing. It's just me and my bedroom. It doesn't exist, really. It existed, but it was just me and my bedroom. Okay. Yeah, just editing videos. Because it sounds official.

I hear that. Right. Oh, yeah, that's why I named it that. I wanted to sound official. And again, I had no connection to what a YouTube channel was. I was like, oh, this is TV on the internet. Yeah. So we got to sound good.

We got to sound like a TV network. Also, I'm from the community. I know there's no lacrosse network. Yeah, yeah, right. But now you're talking to the president. But now I'm talking about to shape up, dude. But now the president reached out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And my brother was in law school at the time. So he helped me like word things really official, you know, and like, he like sent calling a contract. And I remember. I've Ced my attorney. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I used to do that type of stuff all the time, though.

I would CC an email account that I also had access to you. That was like business affairs at the lacrosse network.com or like, and I would be like, Garrett is Cc'd. And then I would go into the other account and be like, hey, Garrett here. Yeah. Or let me meet with the board and we'll get back to you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. This is like schizophrenic shit. What point is this a mental health issue? He just turned into a stuffed animal. He was like, what do you think, guys? Colin seems like a nice kid. Should we bring him out?

Mr. Moose, all right. He says yes. He greenlit the show. Yeah, two paws up. We're going with it. Like, we got to look into this. This is really scary.

So anyway, you're in the middle of a psycho event. In the middle of a breakdown. Yeah, just a full concription. Yeah. And then you felt for it, which was. What does that make you? Well, no, he didn't. He said no.

He said, we got to get this show in the network. Yeah, he said no, because I asked him to change the music. I was like, the music's not going to work because we don't have the license to it. What was the track? It was like Alt J and like all this like, killer indie rock. Yeah, great indie rock. Let's go. I think I took it all from like the hype machine website.

You remember that? Like the early, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was dope. But I was super into the music. Like, I would pick the music before the episodes. And I'd already, I'd already edited two to three by the time he reached out.

And so he's like, you got to remove the music. music. And I was like, ah, well, I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. Like, Vimeo's great. I was the same way. Like, when I first started editing videos, I was like in high school, like late middle school kind of kind of thing. And I would, I would just make party videos, like of my friends in school, like going to parties and shit. And I would hear a song and be like, is there a party this weekend? Because I need to make a video to this song. So I did a chitty bang opposite of adults. Yeah. I was like, this is the greatest. Great song. I mean, we need to do a part. That was in one of the episodes. Yeah, it was. Yeah. So we're talking about the same.

time. Because I once was a kid, all that. You're like, dude, put your cradle on. We're going to the two chattel. You put almost anything to that. It's like, it's time to party. The first episode of season two of the show that Colin was making was Mace, welcome back.

Which was dope. Yeah, because it was like scenes of Colorado and it was like, you know, the welcome back. Yeah, the team is back. Let's go. Yeah. And then the beat drops in there in practice and like, it was, it was sick. It was a very well done show. And basically I came around to being like, my brother told me, you know, he was like,

I can only advise you based on what the risks are. And then you have to evaluate the risk. And if you're willing to take the risk on the music, take the risk on the music. You're like, stop being so Indian about it, bro. Like, just talk to me as a human. He's like, look, I can only advise you. It's like, look, this is the board.

We bathe together. Like, why are you talking to me like this? And then I was like, all right, I'll take the risk. Let's do it. Let's distribute the show. I think it's like a good show and I think it's a make or break show. Yeah.

So that's what we did. And then that's when you actually linked up for the first time. Yeah. When did you actually meet each other? Like you're in different. I think like a couple weeks after that. Yeah.

I think it was during the filming of the show. So I had just graduated from college, but I was filming the team. Yeah. And we came out to California for a game. And you were live streaming. The lacrosse network was live streaming the game. Yeah, we're doing a ton of live stuff. That's cool.

Yeah. And I think one or two episodes had already come out on the network. And they were doing well. Yeah. And I came up into the broadcast booth. And yeah, met you there. Yeah. At that point, we were just starting out.

But like, by year two, we were the largest distributors. of live sports on YouTube, which was crazy. That's wild. Yeah, it was crazy. He had wrapped up all the pro leagues. Yeah. It was like, we got the rights to all the pro leagues, high school club. And you're probably thinking, oh, this is my thing.

This is going to be the way I, like, pay for my kids college. Like, I'm going to have this network for the cross. And in a way. And you're also just like, you were competitive. I was really competitive. And you have the gift of the gab. And you're like, natural born salesman. Yeah.

Just. I was, I mean, I still am, but I was very competitive back then. Right. I mean, the pro league at the time. had major sponsors like Coca-Cola. Sure. Right? Like Powerade.

And they're Boston-based and he's 23 or 24. And it's just calling them up being like, hey, it's a younger than that. Yeah, maybe younger than that. Being like president of the lacrosse network. Yeah. Like using the same lingo. Like, let me talk to the board.

Gary, you want the call? Yeah, Gary. Yeah, exactly. With schizophrenic stuff is really working. All right, Gary, you can hang up now. Yeah. He's like, you're so handsome Samir. You're like, Garrett, enough, dude.

It's a real call. And he's like securing live rights for professional Sports League for his YouTube channel. Yeah. It was, it was wild. But yeah, it just I really did, you know, that was the thought. And that, that is why I was fighting so hard. But I was also just like, I was not a good student in school. So I think this was my moment to be like, like that era I wasn't good at. And now I'm in a new era where the rules aren't the same and I get to to show that I actually and it's real. Like it feels like like school, you're like breaking down the artifice. Totally. is like higher education.

You're like, this isn't anything. But now I'm making real money and doing real shit. Yeah, just like now I'm actually making change. Yeah. And it was validated because YouTube quickly, the team at YouTube quickly got on board and was like, whoa, this is, you guys are doing something interesting. Oh, wow.

Even at that time. Very quick. I mean, immediately was, there was times where we were like speaking to, like within your, I would say 18 months, I was on a panel speaking to the, you know, UFC, WWE, about how sports should come onto YouTube. Because we were the biggest distributor of live. Yeah.

I did not realize that. This is pretty like, like YouTube signed a deal with NFL for NFL Sunday ticket. This is like many years before that. They signed that deal this year. Yeah, this year. Many years before like the NBA, even like, like years before leagues were even like allowing footage. The other spot on YouTube.

The other league that was on was the D League. So we were really close with them because we were learning together about how to live stream and how to do sports on YouTube. And where did you get this savvy from? Like this requires a lot of like foresight and ethic. It was just aggression, man. Like I think for, those three years before we sold the company, because we sold the company in 2014, for those three

years, I didn't live in the same world as anyone else. Like, I lived in this world. And it was like Friday night, Saturday night. I couldn't sleep. Like, I was just awake working on La Crosse Network. Yeah. That was it. Like, it was just like, we didn't go out. No girlfriends. No, I was, I remember when we sold the company, there was like a variety article that that came out about it. And I remember staring at that and being like, here it is. Here's the moment. You know, like now I'm a guy. Yeah. Now I'm someone. And my best friend who was the only person I still had a social connection with after all these years was like, we got we should go celebrate, right? I was like, yeah, yeah, let's celebrate. Couldn't put together more people than just him because I didn't, I had no other

friends. And he took me out to a bar and we sat at the bar and just kind of stood and we both had beers on our hands and we were standing. And then like a group of girls walked up together. a drink and he turned and he was like, hey, my friend just sold this company. And they went, cool, and walked away. And I remember standing there feeling so deflated because I was kind of like, where's my, where's my trophy? There's a finish line. Isn't there someone who's supposed to come out and be like, dude, you did it? And that was like a very humbling, important experience to happen at 24 years old. Yeah. Of just like, okay. Because I remember the next day, I got in the car and I drove to the same office we were working at, looked at Colin and...

Still looking at this asshole. Yeah, like, calling the rest of our team. Except now you have a boss. And you're like, damn, like this... How did I get a job out of this? I would say, like, the bosses were really great. Yeah. But still, an exit is not the same as being on your own.

No, yeah, an aqua hire. It was an aqua hire. So we, yeah, they acquired the network, but also brought us on as employees. So yeah, you're right. We had a job. Which actually was comforting because it was like grad school. It was like getting paid to go to grad school.

We got to be in an environment. where we learned the business of what we were doing. And like actually had operated. Did your parents care? Yeah. They were happy. I think so.

I think they were just concerned because like I was doing something that they had no understanding of. They were very supportive. Like we worked out of my dad's second warehouse. He cleaned it out for us. Like there was there was a bunch of boxes in this warehouse.

He's in the fashion business. And like it was kind of not in use. It was like a storage facility. And he was like, I can clean out the first. room you can work out of there because we didn't have an office yeah and so he cleaned out that room we worked out of there and he gave us a ton of support like he was always supportive uh they were they were he was all about us doing it but he didn't understand how it made money right right he kept being like you guys

got to make he he was it made sense he was like you guys got to make merchandise and sell that he's in fashion he's like a product he's like you sell something yeah right you have a ton of fans they should be buying something from you right yeah and i was like no no the advertisers by the space which then you know and he was like that doesn't make any sense i should just sell them something yeah that's so funny he's coming in he's like pleaded corduroy's yeah you're not no no no no no yeah they're like care too because you put your own money in yeah that's true yeah yeah not like we were had like investors yeah right right right and at that point i'm employee number one yeah yeah like there's a co-founder that's like all you know doing's there were you friends

concerned like you graduate college you graduated yeah yeah yeah i graduated and you're like first job i'm going to go work for it was so early at that time you know like i thought i was going out for a three month internship. Right. So when I extended for a year or two, what does it really matter? Right. You know? It's also not like it was working that well. Like it was working in the context of we had a lot of content and a lot of fans and people were really into it. But business-wise, we were stringing together revenue like by making websites for people, like random stuff. I mean, if we made stickers. Yeah. And then we just said, yes. I was like, hey, Samir, I got a friend who wants us to make stickers. And I was like, sure, we can make stickers. There's 800 bucks. And we were in

downtown LA and went to go make stickers for a for a sunglasses company while you're full time still like okay we got to live switch this event the next day at this college we'd be like live switching and then like designing a website in the middle of the game and dude yeah it was uh I didn't realize this was such a thing like in my mind I really thought it was like we were doing like YouTube videos to cover lacrosse I didn't realize the depth of the actual production you were running that's insane yeah I mean dude we cut our teeth on documentary live sports news like we produced

all kinds of content. Instructional content. Why did you choose to sell the lacrosse network that you've created and dedicated your whole life to to this company? I think I knew for a fact that there's a ceiling in an industry like lacrosse at that time. I think now the ceiling is way higher.

There was a ceiling. If we captured 100% of the revenue, we'd be making okay money. And we had not captured 100% of the revenue. This was an opportunity for us to like incubate ourselves, incubate the idea a little bit further with sports media executives who actually understood what we were doing. They're like, this makes sense. And they were trying to do the same thing. And, you know, they had just signed Dude Perfect to like a partnership with their,

with their network. And so we also had the opportunity then come in and work with Dude Perfect. That was like the first big creator we worked with. And so then we through that, through that. And so then we learned from them and we got to fly out to Texas and worked with dudes and like, they had the advertising relationships. You know, immediately we were in offices with Nike, Under Armour. And what was the company that did the... Whistle.

They're called Whistle, yeah. Now they're owned by DeZone. Gotcha. They then got acquired by DeZone. And so does the lacrosse number still exist in the same way? No, it's primarily Instagram now. It's almost like House of Highlights for LaCross. Got it.

And now it's kind of picking back up on YouTube. They have original content. I mean, it's pretty built out. And like the team that's running it is good. And my dream when I started it was like, I hope one day I can watch this as a fan. And that's happening now. How weird is it.

It's crazy to me sometimes that I get my news from the lacrosse network. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's strange. What's up, guys? We gotta take a break real quick because you, yes, you, need to maximize your performance in the bedroom.

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this show in supporting such an amazing podcast. Now, let's get back to it. And you're like, dude, I set up this YouTube channel like 10 years ago. I remember where I was when I set it up. And the fact that some people may not even know the weird stuff we put on that channel and like all the stuff we did. There's an unlisted video right now on the lacrosse network. Oh, for sure. That's just you guys hanging out. You want to know the most random video on the cross? No, it's public. Yeah, yeah. It's out there. Those are all public. You should go back. You'll find it. The strangest video on the lacrosse network is I was on a

family vacation in the Dominican Republic. You remember this? Oh yeah. This makes no sense. It was early days. But we didn't even understand what YouTube was. But I was on a family vacation in the Dominican Republic. And all of a sudden, Alfonso Ribeiro comes out and does the Carlton dance. And I filmed it. And I was like, I'll just upload it to my YouTube channel, All the cross network. I just uploaded it. I'm pretty sure it's still live. And it got like a ton of views, but it was because everyone was like, that's a weird

like random video. This is the equivalent. This is the way when like YouTube, like you could, it was like the equivalent of sending out a drunk tweet or something. Yeah. It just didn't matter. What's it to me? Yeah.

Here's Alfonso Ruby. We were uploading two to three videos a day on YouTube. Oh wow. Yeah. And there would be like 15 second highlights of like a cool lacrosse goal. And so like we, there was no Instagram video. at the time. There's no Facebook video. So it was just like, yeah, you just upload cool stuff. And it wasn't matter of one of them is kind of random. Was it as loose as that? Or was there some type

of strategic methodology to being like, let's upload a lot frequently. The more frequently we were uploaded and more fans were getting. That was the message from YouTube at the time. It was like, upload. And it graduated to a much more strategic and like mature place with serious documentary series that were sponsored by major brands. Yeah. Yeah. It like, it graduated in a big way. We were like programmed out and like there would be like Under Armour would come in and sponsor a month of a series. And then that month was like all brand. The whole channel was branded. And like it was like releasing shows. Wow. And then the deal with whistle. Yeah. Six figure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, that's amazing. I had like what 24, 25? And then you're like, all right. Now what? Like we just got all this cash. We're still working within the company. Even more so was like the first experience of having a salary and. And then you're like, all right. And healthcare and mentors, like mentorship. Like to be able to be like, this is a problem trying to solve and then sit with someone

who's experienced and be like, well, here's how we solve it. And then having like a CRO, like a chief revenue officer of being like, hey, think we could make money like this. And they were like, okay, we'll get our sales team on it. And you're like, whoa, what? Like just being a part of a system was strange. That's really impressive. Yeah.

And then that's how we learned everything. Right. And then how long did you have to stay with them per the contract? Or was that not specified? I think it wasn't really specified from what I remember because at this point, it was almost 10 years ago, but we ended up staying for three and a half years. Wow.

Two and a half. Two and a half years. Yeah. And then one year as like external consultants. And was there anyone else within the lacrosse network or was it just you too? Yeah, it was myself, Colin and then Julian, who was like essentially my co-founder when we first started out. Oh, wow. And then he worked there for a while.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He actually then ran, like, helped run the skate division. Oh, cool. And so he brought us in. We ended up working with like Paul Rodriguez and like the barracks. Wow.

Yeah. Chris Chan and like all all these skate kids. Because he was a much more authentic skate. Skate kid. Yeah, he was like really into skate. You're saying he could Olly a lot. Like he could really allie. He could all the time.

We had a carpet board in our lacrosse network office and we would always like do tricks and I think he could do a kick flip or a trade flip on the carpet. That's sick. Not with wheels. Yeah, but if you could do it there. No, he was real. You could do it there. Yeah.

That's kind of far. Yeah. I mean, it kind of counts. Yeah. I feel like that's the only anxiety and do something about being in a really specific niche like lacrosse is that your ceiling is completely tied and contingent on the sport itself succeeding yes and you're dealing in an environment that's very scarce so everyone's fighting and and in very scarce environments no one wants to band together yeah everyone wants their piece of the pie

so you're really fighting and more yeah more fighting like it seems like the opposite like oh the smaller it is the more communal it'll be but like the scarcity of the resource makes things up the worst people it's kind of like it's winner take all. Yeah. So it's very much like, yeah. It feels attainable when it's that small. Right. So you're like, no, no, no, I got to, I think I can make it happen.

I can take the whole sport. We can have the whole empire. We can have the whole sport. Yeah. I think that's just human nature too. It's like, it's pretty hard to put together something that's like, actually if we all bind together, we could just, you know, like, that's pretty hard to put together. But if it's so big that you're like, oh, yeah, we don't need to be fighting with someone

because it's not going to affect us because there's so much to go around. But once there's so, so little, it's like, oh, oh, we can take it. And if someone else takes some, they could take all of it. So we got to just crush anyone that grows in. And it just creates a really bad environment. Do you think there is a future for professional lacrosse in like a significant way in the way that we watch other sports? Yes. Really?

Yes, I do. I really do. I think, I mean, I'm saying that as a like dear friend to the founders of the new professional lacrosse league as investors in the new professional lacrosse league. It's called the premier lacrosse league. and as like confidants in the storytellers who work there. Yeah. If anyone's going to do it, it's this group. Right now.

I'm very confident in like their creative abilities. And they changed the product. They made it into a touring model to start. Oh, that's cool. They said, we're not going to be geo-based because there's not enough fans yet. So what we're going to do is actually change it and say, we're going to take this whole thing on tour. And make the best teams. And then they rotate throughout the country and go to events.

And so they go and do events. So it's more like F1, where it's, like descends upon a city. And then that whole weekend's about professional lacrosse and then they leave and go to another city. Oh, that's smart. And that's really, I think that model was really sharp and the storytelling is different. And now you get every lacrosse fan in a city to come for one weekend, concentrated.

And then new fans can emerge and they have a great deal with ESPN. It's a great distribution. That's cool. So the group is, is great. But I really believe like it just, it's going to come down to character building and storytelling. Yeah. Because, but it's still, it's still across.

It's like you watch. it, it's complicated, you know, it's not, and the ball's small. Yeah, it's hard and the guys wearing helmets. So there's a lot of rules. It's not, it's not the basketball, the guys aren't wearing helmets and it's a big ball that goes into a big, right, it's small. Yeah. Like the court is little comparatively. Boxing in UFC? I mean, so one guy versus one guy. You don't need to know anything. You don't need to know anything. I watch Russian like, MMA events and it's like, that's why it's like three on one. Like you don't even need to know any of the rules to know, oh, this guy's gonna beat up

the other guy. Yeah. But also, I feel like the best stories are when someone has nothing to lose or when both guys have nothing to lose, or when everyone on every team has nothing to lose. Like, this is the last opportunity for them to turn their life around with this one fight. And with lacrosse, you've got a lot of guys who are doing really well, have a lot of opportunities to go into banking and finance.

Right. Right. So I think storytelling is harder in lacrosse. There are really good stories. Not every guy's like that. Of course. There's no doubt. Like, there are some amazing stories.

Yeah, yeah. And that's what the Premier La Crosse League is doing right now. It's sinking into the real. But it's harder. I mean, like the NBA. Like, how, I don't know what percentage of those guys, like, had tough childhoods, get out of a bad situation, put their mom in a mansion, like, the most beautiful story ever that everyone wants to connect to.

Yeah. And that doesn't happen. No, no, exactly. Like, can the American dream happen? Yeah. The American dream's already happened. Right. If you're playing crew or, like, lacrosse.

Or, you know what the stereotype is. Yes, for sure. Yeah. And that's really hard to storyteller on. Boxing has done a great job. And those guys really, like, all. A lot of them, they came out of nothing. And so you're like, damn, you really need, if you don't win, what else do you have?

What do you do? Like, this is it. This is it. And that like stakes, that's the, you know, the pinnacle of storytelling is stakes. Yeah, that's every show. That's not just sports. That's like queer eye. Yeah.

Every person on the show, it's like, if they don't do this now. Yeah. With these guys, it's over. Yeah. That's, they're getting, horse. They're getting, yeah. It's over. They need to do that.

They need to do queer eye, but like, with boxers. That would be perfect. Floyd made weather on the come up it's like dude we're gonna turn you into a star yeah yeah yeah you're gonna be your nails are gonna be perfect yeah I mean that's wild I think that's what you guys need to do you gotta go like around the world find some at-risk youth and then put some lacrosstakes in their hand and get a story you know what I mean you're like let's go baby let's score some goals good headline call it's where traveling money globe for at risk years remember they did that with the what was that

that show the kid that played for the pirates million dollar arm and they went out to India and they found cricket players that's right yeah we're gonna bring you America to play baseball and they made a movie out of it. Yeah. That could be... Whatever happened to the big Indian basketball player? He died. No.

I don't know. Oh, I was like... Oh my God. Why I made that out of this? Wait, well, I don't even know. Which were you talking about? I don't know where he is, but there's a... Vice made a piece about him.

He did he? Really? RIP vice died. How long did he play for? How many times? Vice died. That's what it is. Yeah, my bad.

That's who died. Yeah, I'm actually curious. What do you guys think of that? Like, Vice being this, like, haven for, like, like cool subculture news to then just kind of going bankrupt and maybe not existing. I think it's the same story as BuzzFeed. Like I think it's the inevitability of people getting tired of a media brand. Like people follow people. People are interesting. You know, like as your show continues to grow and you change your show, people are going to be into it because they're into you.

As we grow and we change, people will be into it who are into us. Now, if we take on a bunch of overhead and you start not being able to move around and be nimble and change, you immediately become stale and mediocre and you can't compete. Vice can't compete with someone like ERAC. And they're not in the same category, but just...

In terms of eyeballs. Yeah, or Johnny Harris. Like, they can't compete because you have an individual and people are more interested in human beings, right, than brands. So you have an individual who doesn't have as much overhead, has no investors,

any moment can change with the algorithms, that's that you can't, you can't compete with that. Also, if you start making too much stuff that's only being made because like Hennessy whatever is sponsoring it or whoever. Yeah, yeah.

It's bad stuff. Like, it's only made to exist because a sponsor paid for it. I think someone sold it. If you make too much of that. Yeah. People start to care less. Media companies are kind of like built

to become mediocre. Because, you start with something cool, right? And then people are really into it because it's cool. And you get a ton of advertising opportunities. And then you just say yes to all of them and you make a watered down version of what you used to make because you have to make so much of it

and you have to appease the sponsors. Right? And then you're also looking at performance. So instead of saying like what would be cool you're looking at what would work. And so there's like this inevitability of like stripping out the innovation and creativity. And then you get to a point where like we talked about

you have something to lose because vice is something. Yeah. And if they do, if they take risks in the wrong direction, Vice could go bankrupt. Yeah. When you work your whole life

to get everything you ever wanted, all you can think about is losing it. Yes. And that fear of losing it is so crippling. Do you think that Vice's content strategy has affected their, like it seemed to me at least that they were pushing for a new market share,

that like they were existing in like this sort of niche, like, you know. Counterculture. Yeah, countercultural sort of like subversive media space and then progressively kind of got a little bit more broad and try to like bring in more people and got like a little bit more like moderate in a way and at least to me like again I'm not a diehard but that just seems like what their content was doing and in the pursuit of trying to get everyone it seemed like they kind of lost everyone at least to me

yeah that's probably right and also the business of being niche is very different from the business of being mass and they probably built their they probably had to get into a space where they had to be mass. Right? And so that's again, it's like when you raise money as a media company or you have just a lot of overhead, it's very hard to remain cool because the pressure is different. So I just think that that's like an inevitable future for media companies. That's interesting because I sometimes feel the opposite way where I feel like media companies have almost always an advantage over the individual because I can only make so many podcasts in a week. But if you are a podcast media company, you can make five podcasts a day.

Like your ability to create with frequency and have multiple talent under the umbrella can grow. Yeah, I think access to talent is a big advantage. Like Barstool can flip up a show and all of a sudden like Dave is on it, right? Yeah. Like talking about his show or like they have big celebrities sometimes who are just within episode two.

Dionne Sanders. Yeah. Yeah, you're just like, damn. Like that's a competitive advantage. They're unique and I think they're like they operate like a, startup creator. In every version. I was watching one of their episodes.

Have you watched the show, the BFF show with Josh Richards? Oh, yeah, yeah. And Pornoy. And Pornow is, he's funny on it. And there's a moment in the show where he's trying to fix his webcam for almost four and a half minutes. And nothing is being talked about, but he's just pissed that his webcam's not working. Yeah.

And it's entertaining. And I think that's such an X factor that they have like, you know, with him. But yeah, they're kind of an outlier. right now. They operate a little more like creators. Like that moment, right, of him trying to fix his webcam for four minutes. Any other media company, that's cut. Right. Yeah. You guys, uh, on the Schultz, like flagrant episode with Noel Miller, the first like 25 minutes is pressing him on his race. Yeah. Yeah. It's absurd. I was losing. I'm like, it's still going. That was really funny. 10 more minutes. Still going. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like any media company, we were going to get to the bottom. Any media company with a sponsor on that. Yeah. You know, it's like,

Yeah, we can't. No, no, no, we can't. We just can't start an episode that way. Yeah, of course. Right. Like, you're able to make decisions that actually are better for the audience because they're more you. Right.

And media companies just can't always do that. Noel Miller is like a savant to me. Like, sitting with him, I was like, this dude is so funny and so sharp. Yeah. And then the fact that him and Cody can make music, the way they do is so crazy to me. No, no, no, is like a real, like, creative force. Yeah. Like, in terms of like, yeah, I do production.

I can make food videos. I can edit, I can do music, I can do stand-up. I mean, it's like Donald Glover levels of like, brilliant. But yeah, it's like his slowness sometimes and his delivery is like Chappelle. Like he's so, his heartbeat must be, like, must be so. His resting heart rate is just must be so low. Yeah. And he's had, especially for comics, I don't even know if people would like knowledge this,

but like coming up in the space and in the way that he came up when people look at it is so easy because they're like, oh, you got this audience automatically handed to you. Like, that's the dream. But it's in a way a lot harder to try to cut your. teeth as a comic because it requires so much repetition and ideally you're going up in front of like neutral people that will give you honest feedback but he's going up in front of like his fans and in spite of that has still become a great comic yeah and that is really hard to do it to already have an audience while trying to do stand-up is nearly impossible yeah we've seen it with all these like ticot guys

vine guys that have these big audiences and they go oh how do I monetize I'm going to do a live show and I'll just do stand-up because how hard is that and I'm funny on the internet so therefore I'll be funny here and it does not translate And Noel, because he's a legit comic, like even before he was making content, has been able to usher in and do like a great live show. I would love to see his live show. Dude, it's great. Yeah, we got invited in L.A., but we couldn't go.

Yeah, no, you should check out. I would have loved to go. But it's hard when you already have that built-in audience. Like, imagine the first video you ever posted. There's like half a million people, a million people just like waiting. Yeah, yeah. You're like, yeah, I'm never going to do anything. Like, how can you live up to the expectation?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How was performing at Mothership, by the way? Dude, it's awesome. It's so cool. I wanted to hear about that experience because that, like, I'm a huge fan of stand-up comedy. I think stand-up comedy is like, Schultz set it on our show,

and I think about it all the time. You talked about like stand-up is risk. Like, what makes it interesting is the risk of it. You know, it's like you're standing up there and you're going to say something vulnerable to all these people. Yeah. And I think just getting the experience

of doing live speaking more now, where a lot of our stuff is like written by someone else or at least we're workshoping with a writer. and but sometimes you'll say something that's supposed to be funny and no one laughs and it's a very, I'm so glad we have that experience now. That is such an important experience

as a creator or entertainer or performer and then also the inverse experience where you say something that's off the dome or off the cuff and people do react, clap, laugh, whatever. Yeah. That live feedback is like, I don't know. I think that's one of the most important things

as a creator. It's a wild feeling. I mean, just stand up in general. But the mothership as a space is so cool. I mean, it's really remarkable what Rogan did. And I always talk about Joe, like, you know, obviously he's a podcaster, but in a lot of ways, he's a YouTuber. And like, I don't think people ever, like, he knows that. I don't know if he would. I don't know if he would take that as offensive,

but I'm like, no, you're a YouTuber. On top of being a YouTuber, he's also like a live streamer. Like, the majority of his videos, I think we even talked about this last time you guys were here. The majority of his videos that he did from like 2000, I mean, his first videos were on you stream. Like, it wasn't even on YouTube. It was just on a live streaming website. And then all the way up until like 2018, 2018, 2019. they were all live. Like he was literally like the OG live streamer. Like, and people don't realize that.

Like when Elon Musk came on his show and smoked weed, the stock price was falling in real time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like he was live on air. And people have a disconnect from that. They're like, oh no, he's like the OG live streamer. And so from him to go to like this niche live streamer to then creating an entire comedy subculture in a city is like unbelievable.

And to witness it and to go there. I mean, every show was sold out for the next. next, I don't even know however many months. That's crazy. They have two rooms going at all times. All the people, comics and staff are getting paid like insane money. Like the club, to my understanding, is like a break-even club. Like, it's not going to make money.

That's cool. This is Joe's way of like redistributing his wealth that he got to, like, comics and artists and creators. That's cool. And everyone in the audience is like excited and they're so happy to be there. There's no phones. So like everyone's in like those saunder bags. Have you seen those?

Yeah, yeah. And so like the audience is just like chatting. It's kind of bother me. What do you mean? I don't know. know. I like the concept of them. Yeah. But I wish the mechanism was less clunky. Really? There's something that bothers me about. I look at the magnet. I'm like, this is perfect. Like, you keep your phone. Yeah. That it's a magnet. There's no technology even involved. They can't fail.

Yeah. I'm like, as far as technology goes, I'm like, pretty solid. I just like don't like what it says about me. Like when I do it, I'm like, am I, am that. Am I that that? Am I that is so insane? Yes. Yes. We all are. Yeah, that like they have to put it in a jacket. The answer is is yes. Is yes. So maybe that's what it is. I just get bothered. Yeah. I don't think you like what it says about you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm a junkie. The impulse is crazy. Yeah, it's a lot.

The impulse of like any given void, any moment, you know? Yeah. Oh, I'm bored. Oh, no, I'm bored. Thanks for making me bored. Not even I'm bored. It's just I have a second, you know, I have a second right now. Yeah.

Speaking of this, I was watching this video, heard this story. Something happened recently where a bus driver full of kids, they're driving and the bus driver starts to have a seizure. Oh. Did you hear about this? Saw it. Okay, bus driver starts to have a seizure. Young kids, like 11, 12, whatever.

One kid in the front realizes what's happening, gets up, puts his foot on the break, saves the entire bus. They're swerving across the road. They do interviews with all the kids afterwards. That kid who put his foot on the brakes doesn't have a cell phone. He's the only kid on the bus. His parents wouldn't let him have a cell phone. Every other kid was like, oh yeah, I didn't even realize what was happening. I was on my phone. I was on my phone. I was on my phone.

Oh, insane. That's insane. Like, that's crazy. Bro. And he probably got bullied for having a phone or for not having a phone. Yeah, he probably got bullied for it. And even in the interview, he was thinking right there. Even in the interviewer was like, isn't it great? You know, your parents didn't give you a phone type of thing? And he was kind of like, no. No. I would have a much rather died on TikTok. He was just kind of like, I can tell he was bummed about being the odd one out. Yeah. But think about what we're giving up. Like just general situational awareness.

Literally. What is the chances actually in 2023 that a kid didn't have a phone? Yeah, that's very good. Yeah. The one kid. Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. It's insane. And then on top of that, like, you think, I bet you he was sitting there being like,

should I just let this thing go off a cliff? Like, fuck all these motherfuckers. Like, they've been bullying me for six months about not having a phone. Oh, who doesn't have a phone now? But instead, he did the right thing. Also that he knew, like, to hit the break? I mean, yeah, yeah, like, there's a lot. There's a lot of, there's a lot of, there's a lot of it.

Would I understand what to do? Oh, no, I would have a seizure. too. I would have seen it and be like, oh, fuck, here we go. This fucking collapsed. I would have been on my fault. Yeah. What if the bus driver was on his phone? That's what caused it. It was like, dude, this is, everything's the phone. I mean, there's probably, like, there's probably statistic,

like how many deaths happen a year from people on their phones, crossing the street. I mean, do you do you do you do you get out of the way? Yeah. I stopped doing that. I'm done with it. I'll just stand there. Like, if you're on your phone and you really aren't looking, I'll just stand there and have you kind of like get close to me and be like, oh, sorry. It bugs me.

You know, I don't know. I think that's the right thing to do. I appreciate, annoying. I appreciate very much the law that you can't be on your phone in a car, right? Yeah. When you're driving, of course, right? But the other day, I was driving and I got to a red light and I wanted to change what I was listening to. And I pulled up my phone at the red light and start messing with Spotify.

And I get a really angry knock on my window from a cop on a bike. And he was like, you want me to give you a ticket right now? And I was like, I didn't know how. to react because I was like, he's like, and then he said, take your phone and throw it in your trunk in front of me right now. And I was like, okay, okay. And I like unplugged it. And I threw it. And then he was like, next time I'm giving you a ticket. And I was like, I didn't want to like question him because he was a very angry guy. Yeah, he's on a bike. Yeah. He's on a motorcycle. Yeah. Yeah. So I, you're his big catch for the day. He's like, who we go. But right after that situation,

you know, he sped off. I pulled over, went into my trunk, got the phone. Yeah. I'm He got picked my podcast and put it in. He also didn't speed off. He went in third year. Yeah, he was biked off slowly. You think that's less effective than him kind of just knocking on the door and saying, A, definitely less effective. Like would you mind putting your phone down?

Less effective, right? But I figured the rule is like, if you're out of red light, you can pull out the phone, right? Yeah, that seems completely reasonable. Yeah, that seems reasonable. Yeah. I don't get most of these, like, car rules, though. Like, it's like, oh, you're allowed to have, what was the thing they used to tell us in college? They'd be like, okay, you're allowed to have alcohol in the car if it's

two moves away. Right. Was that right? That's what the rule was. That might be in Florida law. Yeah. That's a Florida law. Is that a gun?

I think of a gun? Well, that's, I don't remember. Wait, two moves away? It's something like that. We're like, you're like,

you're like, if it's like behind you. So you have to like undo your seatbelt and turn around. Got it. Or maybe I'm thinking of a gun and I cannot remember which one it is.

I think it's the same rule though. Neither rule supplied. Yeah. I think a two move rule is like if it's in your glove box. That way it's like, one move. Yeah.

Is it five moves? How many moves is it, dude? What do we consider a move? I don't know. I'm driving with a gun up to my head. I don't even know what's going on. I'm like, if I'm in traffic for one more minute,

it's over. I mean, yeah, that's wild. I don't like, I don't like when cops are overly confrontational like that. You're like,

be a little reasonable. Like, I'm at a red light. Yeah. I'm listening to Spotify. Yeah. I don't need you like banging on my window with this intensity.

Yeah. Like, especially, like, he said, I'm going to get you next time. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Like it's like a Scooby-Doo villain?

Yeah. It kind of did freak me out though. I think about it all the time now. What, you think just falling? Yeah, I just think about it all the time. Just any moment. Yeah, I could happen. Just check your back seat. But I also think that it has to do with like, you know, and I'm curious to you guys. Like, when do you decide to give up on a podcast episode? Because that's what I was doing in the moment. I was like, you had just given up on an episode? I was like, I'm done with this episode. I'm going to move to a totally different. Wow. So it's really their fault. Yeah. Do you want to say which podcast? Yeah. I think it might have been smartless. Wow. Yeah, I'm a smart list. And I like Jason Babeman is a huge fan of this show. He listens to this a lot and he's going to be crushed to hear that. Jason, look, I finish every episode.

I listen to the ads. I don't care if a copy. I listen to the ads. I do listen to the ads. I like the way they do their ads on that show. But J.B. knows like some episodes are better than others. Yeah. And when you're when your guest dependent, whenever they're doing too much, I know they're not happy with the guest.

You know, like the three of them when they're really hamming it up. Interesting. They're like, okay, the guest is not playing into this. like, you know, the chemistry is out. Were you like an arrested development guy? Did you like that show? I haven't watched all of it, but I love that show. So what is up with you and is quitting on Jason Bateman?

Like, you know what? Right? Like, what is wrong between you and Jason Baton? Yeah, you got to call him and just figure this out. Yeah, it's kind of rude, dude. Yeah. That is rude. That's fair.

I'm good at a, I'll never quit a pot or like if I'm listening to a show. I'll know based on like the first two minutes if I'm in or out. And then I just won't revisit it if I'm like halfway. Yeah. Like that's how I know. I'll like get to wherever I'm going, turn it off. And if I'm not thinking about it during the day, being like, what did David Fravor see when he was flying that Navy jet and saw the TikTok UFO? If I'm not thinking that, then I know it's not for me.

Yeah. And I finished every podcast that he talks about that TikTok UFO, I've listened to all of them. I'm like, I'm hooked. Like he talked to Lex about it. He talked to Rogan about it. What do you guys think? Everyone. What do you guys think?

I knew this was leading here. It always does. It always does. I just talked to a guy that got abducted by aliens. So it's like, it's in my head nonstop. Yeah. But what do you think? Aliens, yes or no.

Also, that's what's what? The show is about, right? Aliens? At the end of that. Yeah. I mean, what are you talking about at camp? Yeah, yeah.

That's true. Right. That is true. Yeah. When I used to camp, I definitely talked about aliens a lot. I don't think there's any possible way we're the only ones. That's what I'll say.

Like, that seems like an absurd concept to me. Statistically. Yeah. Yeah. that we could be just like, like, whenever someone describes to me the universe, I'm like, okay, that's like a very overwhelming thought. And the fact that we're like, yeah, and it's just us. Yeah. That seems crazy. So I don't know what it looks like, but I think it's a crazy thought to think. I also think abduction is totally understandable. Okay. I mean, like, let's have to one-up them

every time, dude. You're better at lacrosse, dude. You're better at lacrosse, dude. Like, chill out, dude. Like, think about it. Like, if... Clip calling on that. Dude, yeah. Abduction is completely under thing. Not on Earth, but like if...

Let's get into this. If humans found an alien species and felt like we had found them before they had found us. With the history of the human, don't you think that if we had the ability to abduct one to learn more about them, we would probably do it? I'm not saying we like Americans, like maybe who knows, like someone somewhere... I think I would be the worst... take it into their hands. You find a tortoise in the Galapagos and you're like, we're going to take you, put a tracker on you, like observe you and then come back and see you every couple months. Think about how we study animals. Throw an air tag on them. Exactly. Yeah. Literally air tag. Yeah. That's like.

That's what it is. Yeah. And I think humans might be like, yeah, we should probably check it out. Yeah. Yeah. Like collectively the human race would probably be like, yeah, we won't harm them, but we should probably take one. But take a look. That's what this guy Jay was saying. He was like, I believe that I've been tracked. I'm like being tagged by extraterrestrials, by unknown beings. And they come and visit me every few months to like check out what's going on look at my form check my body out and he even said something i think he said on the episode that was blown my mind he was like it is human centric of us to believe that the aliens want to talk to us yeah i was going to say that's narcissistic in itself right how crazy is that's very eager to talk to like the dolphins yeah

totally why like what if they're going to talk to someone else who knows they can interface with dogs or something we assume we're the important ones yeah and the dogs are in on it so that's crazy yeah right but you don't think they're coming to earth though you know what man I have no idea and I'm open to all the opportunities and things that could happen you know the interstellar opportunities I guess opportunities is the wrong word I'm just open to all the possibilities like I'm very confident that I know very little yeah you know and I and that is my confidence level and like I'm just like any I this is all crazy right like the fact that we're talking this is a mushroom talk that's what I was saying okay so like you think about the Yeah, this is going to get pretty wild. Yeah. So just everyone, buckle up?

Like the concept that an apple grows. Like you put a seed in the ground and all of a sudden like this thing grows and then you can grab it and eat it and it tastes good. What is it? That's a strange concept. What is that? And if you settle into that concept and then there's strawberries and then there's some that you can't eat and there's a it's like such a strange concept that you have to then go,

well, I don't know, man. I guess like what is this magical place? That's the only answer. that I like. I'm like averse to certainty. If someone's too certain about something, I'm like, how do you know that? I think also enough just like wild things have happened in my life to know that like, I don't know. Like there's a lot of obscurity to this. Yeah. And yeah, there's no certainty. Yeah. It's it's crazy to be certain. Yeah. There's bizarre like, I mean, the whole like, I was just in Costa Rica recently visiting like my wife's extended family and we go out into the middle

the jungle, like the rainforest. We're looking up with the sky and I'm like, oh, I never see stars. Like I grew up in Orlando. I didn't really see a ton of stars growing up. Sometimes I see him camping when I was like a kid. Sometimes I see him camping now. But even now, you camp in New York, you go upstate. It's still kind of like not great visibility. Sure. We go out in the jungle. You can see every constellation, perfect visibility. And you're just looking at it. You're like, what is that, dude? Like all of that, like, I was thinking, I was like, dude, if you were to go to the moon, you'd be like, oh, you're in space. And I was like, the surface of the moon is just as much space as the surface that I'm on right now. We're technically in space. I was like,

what is going on? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, how down that path? How did water even get here? That's something that Jay was saying. He's like, dude, if you look at Earth, it has so many resources that are so unique in the universe, or like, at least in our galaxy where he's like, like, water is everywhere. Like, we're made of water, like waters, whatever. It's not, you can't find it for a hundred million miles. I'm so excited. What even is that? I'm so excited for the, uh, yeah. What's going on, dude? The audience members who come to the, show being like, oh, Colin and Samir, I'll probably learn something about the creator economy. Yeah, dude. Yeah, how about the main creator? You know what I'm saying? Shout out of God.

The one create. Yeah, the OG creator. That's what you guys got to do. Have a religious heel turn. I'll be like, hey, welcome to the creator economy. Open your Bibles and just go deep into it. That would be awesome. I mean, it really is crazy. I do think having that mentality is important to be like a podcaster or someone who interviews people because like you have to be inherently curious and believe, like be open to your beliefs being challenged, you know, to have long, curious conversations with people. You have to be very open. Yeah, it's hard to have a combo where someone's like, you know, I believe this. And the guy's just like, nah, nah. I think you're dumb for that, actually. But then it also is interesting on a talk show when two people have opposing views and

they back them up. Like, that's also an interesting. Yeah, only when you think about it, though, like, if you've, like, been really self-reflective. Yeah. Like, I sometimes am blown away at how little self-reflection other people do. Sure. Like, I just assume everyone's over thinking every decision they make. Right. And then I meet someone that's not over thinking anything. They don't really think about anything. And I'm like,

what are you doing all that? Like, you're just, you don't even have a phone. You're just like, really happy. Yeah, that's like the plight of being a creative too.

I think like being a creative, you end up just being very self-reflected. Yeah, self-awareness is your superpower, but also like, yeah, what brings you down? Yeah. Yeah.

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And. And so question, is the episode starting right now? Yes, dude. We'll get, we'll get this show. Everything we just did. Yes. Yeah. This is such a, yeah, this is, what a cool opportunity to talk about just stuff we

would never talk about anywhere else. Sometimes we'll go to bed and we'll have like turned off a light and we'll wake up in the morning and like that light will be on. And like there will be like another kind of strange thing. And we'll hear, there's one day where like there's a chime that happens when a window opens. Or sorry, when there's movement in the house. So there's like a chime that happens. And when we turn the alarm on.

And we were laying in bed and the chime happened. And we were like, whoa. And I was like, okay, I better go, I better go check this out. And look. And I went outside and we have a light in my closet that can only get turned. on from a button inside the closet. And the closet was illuminated. And I hadn't been in that room that day.

And the chime went off. And I looked over and I was like, the closet lights on. And I was like, I don't know. I just don't know. I don't know what that means. So I just opened the door, turned off the light, went back to bed. But that's happened a couple times where like, we'll hear the chime and then something will be like kind of different.

Yeah. Who knows? Also could just be someone in my house. Yeah. Yeah. Hope to God. Yeah. Like I hope there's just a homeless guy.

Yeah, I mean, again, I don't, I don't know, man. How weird, though. I mean, how do you feel walking back to the bed just being like, okay, what am I to tell my girl? Just like, oh, it was nothing. I think her and I are pretty like woo-woo, you know, so we're just kind of like, oh, you know, who knows? A friendly spirit. Yeah. Don't you hate gender rules, though?

What do you mean? That you're laying in bed and you're like, are you going to go? And she's like, no, you're supposed to go. And you're like, fine, I'll fucking go do it. I think that comes up a lot with spiders in our house where she's the spider. I kill so many spiders, man. Oh, really? You got a girl?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, Fiante. Damn. Oh, I was going to. Just checking for the name. No ring yet, yeah. See, I don't like that.

That's another gender thing that I don't like. That you don't get a ring. You propose, we both get rings. Yeah. That's the way it should be. That's right. I'm still in this like limbo. Yeah, right?

Like, what even is this? Exactly. Like, you're engaged to whom? Yeah. Like, who is this person? Just like, an amorphous human being. Like, all you do all day is just switches in his house. Like, you don't even have a purpose other than...

I'm not going to messing with me. It's a long prank. I'm going to do that up until the day I get married. Oh, yeah, exactly. And then it's over. And then you get married and you're like, all right, I got to be serious now. Exactly. Yeah.

So she does all the spiders and then you do all the ghosts. Yeah. That's pretty much interesting. That's pretty much it. Yeah. When you say woo, woo, are you like low-key, like vaguely spiritual? You're like, yeah, there's something. Something's going on.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. Dude, fucking same. That's what it is. I grew up like hella Catholic. Oh, interesting.

Like, deeply. Like, I still got my scapular on. Shout out to my Catholics. But literally, I like grew up, like, going to Bible study all the time. And then now it's kind of like morphed. That was short hair mark. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That was short hair me back in the ball pit days.

Dude, short hair ball pit mark is a different human. Have you guys seen those videos by? Yeah, I haven't. That's so funny. I have. And I was like, I was watching that video. And I was like, so where's Mark? And then I paused it.

And I was like, wait that's Marks in my house the whole time look at you look in the mirror you're like I'm mark what an acid track I'm pretty woo-woo man that's possibility yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm we're all one yeah yeah no that was a weird time that was like literally I was interning at the laugh factory in LA and I was just uploading all of their stand-up stuff I like kind of started their Instagram page oh interesting and I like kind of was getting their Facebook pop and they had a good YouTube presence at the time and so I was just like posting all their content and I was kind of learning like oh here's how you title something to go viral yeah here's how you like

edit it to make it like pop and I just had like a backlog of all this content that I loved I was so obsessed with stand-up still am and I was able just like play with it and they were just like do whatever you want and so I was just uploading it all day just like this hit this didn't hit reload this dude one time there was a guy that has like a racial joke this is a very embarrassing story that I've never told there's a comic that like went up at the laugh factory and had like a racial joke but it's not like offensive it's like him and a black guy doing like a sketch and it's like it's a it's racial right okay it's funny in 99% of context and then I posted it on one day and it's killing like doing crazy views just like going insane and then I get a call from like

the manager lady of the intern pro she's like mark did you upload that sketch to Facebook and I was like yeah it's killing it's got like 5 million views it's going crazy she's like have you read the comments and I was like, no. And I go through the comments and it was on the day of like cop shooting another guy. And I was like, oh no. And she was like, delete it now.

And I was like, okay, I'll delete it. And I thought my job was over. I thought that was going to be it. I uploaded it. It was like a PR nightmare. And I thought it was like over. And then the next day, nothing happened. So I was like, sorry.

And then just kept on uploading. And then that was the whole summer. And then I came home and I was like, okay, how do I go viral? I was like, I feel like I know the tools I have like all the pieces. So I like looked up like Harvard articles about like articles that went viral on LinkedIn. And like what were like the hallmarks and through lines of those things?

And it was like, okay, don't be confined to language. Be colorful. Have an arc. Be under three minutes at the time on Facebook. Formatted as a square like saturate it. Subtitle it, all that stuff. So I was like, okay, what is like a positive? Oh, and be positive.

So I was like, okay, I have all these balls from the college that I was going to. They had just like this giant like ball pit thing that they had like underneath the school that they would use for like events like rally days or whatever. Pep rally days. Rally days is a very different thing that they would do at my school. That's when they would get all the Trump supports together. No. Got it. No, they were literally like, okay, pep rally days.

They bring the ball pits out. So I like bought an above ground pool, bought all these like colored balls, went downtown Orlando, dumped them all in and then made that video. And then the first week that it went up It was like a million views. Yeah. And now it's at like 26 million. Wow. On Facebook?

Yeah. On Facebook. And that was the first video ever posted and I was like sick. That was interesting. That video has a lot of like kind of like yes theory-esque to it. Yeah.

And I wasn't even aware of those guys at the time. Has this like feel good feel. Yeah. But don't be confined to language as rule number one. It's so important. Yeah. I mean that's Cabi lame, right?

Yeah. That dude like every video you can be anywhere in the world and understand it. Yeah. But the issue with that content is that it was like doing really well and I did a series of them. I did videos for like sole pancake, which is like Rain Wilson's company.

And like it was awesome. Like I screwed that deal up too. I was so dumb. What'd you post? I was like, no, no, no, posting was fine. But I was like 20 years old. And they were like, okay, Mark, you're doing these videos. Great job.

These are cool. How about we pay you to make us for videos? And I was like, boom, let's do it. And they were like, how much is it going to cost per video? And I was like, I'm going to milk these guys. I'm going to really just fucking squeeze them for everything they got. Okay. 500 bucks a video.

Okay. Got it. And they were like, you're going to need probably three grand of videos, so we'll just give you that. And I was like, wow. I really thought I was like doing big business. I was like, I'm going to rinse them. C, see Garrett and everything.

Yeah. Talk to the board. I had Garrett. I talked to the board. Guys, the best we can do is 500 a video. Dude, I take it or leave it. Oh my gosh. I was such an idiot.

And I thought that was going to be like me like highway robbery. But no, those videos were great. But the issue is that then I was doing stand-up, which is like more authentic to who I am. Then this content was less authentic, but really cool and like a part of who I was. Like I like making people happy. I like making like fun content that everyone can get on board with. But then people from the like the videos were coming to see me do stand up and they were like, oh, this is different. And I was like, yeah, it is different. And so I had to make a choice like, okay, do I go this route, which is working and making money? Or do I go the standup route, which is not

really making money but is what I really love. Got it. And I kind of just like stopped doing that content. Yeah. And it was really tough because I was like, I put in all this time and effort. I've made it work and like millions of views and I'm just kind of leaving it. Comedy's hard, man. So much more fun.

There's some friends. Yeah, that's like an identity decision. Yeah. It really was. Yeah. It's, uh, and I go to, I go to the shows and they're very funny. And you just recognize like it's, to really do it is extremely hard. Like I have a lot of respect for people who do stand-up comedy.

Yeah. It's a specific type of mental illness, but it's good, though. It is good. Yeah, because it does feel like a unique club. It is so irrational. Yeah. To, like, just to think, to lay in bed at night and be like, I'm going to do this and that's going to, that's going to be my career.

Yeah. It's one of the most irrational things. Really? I think so. I think it's like, and I'm not saying that it's irrational to be that passionate about it. I'm just saying like, it's an unreasonable thing. If you wrote it down on paper to explain. to someone. It's like trying to be getting to the NBA. It's like a very small percentage of

people really make it. And yeah, there might be an offshoot of it. It sounds like my mom right now. There might be an offshoot of it. But the advice I always give to like creators or, you know, I think even someone who's pursuing that is like if you just go to bed at night and you wake them in the morning and you can't not do it, then you'll probably make it. Yeah. Because you just can't not do it. Literally. I mean, I was listening to it might have been even on one of your podcast. But someone was like, you can't beat me at, at, this specific thing because I'll never stop doing it. Yes.

I will die before I stop this thing. So how are you going to win? Right, right. Like, there's no way. Like, even if you think it's a great idea and you're on the wave before me, I love it more than you. Yes.

So you can't, like, and there really is no competition with that guy. Also, the film comedian, the Jerry Seinfeld, what's his name? Orrin. Orne Adams. Orney Adams.

Yes. That's like a very important film to watch. I think for like any, entrepreneur or anyone trying to do anything creative. Interesting. What did what did you pull from it that you thought was a that one section? There's a scene that's like so important. It's uh, Jerry and Orney are in a club and Orney's talking to Jerry about, uh, how he's like turning 30 and he hasn't made it yet. And, uh, he's explaining to Jerry that like his friends have, have jobs and they have mortgages and families and like he's in a comedy club trying to,

you know, trying to make it as a comic. And Jerry's just challenging him the whole time. Like he's like when he says like, you know, my friends have mortgages. He's like, mortgages. And he's like, your friends. He's like your friends. He's like, yeah. But Jerry, like, you know my parents?

I have conversations with them. And he's like, your parents? He's like, this has nothing to do with your parents. Sort of alluding to like this can be about no one else but yourself. Yeah. Like you just have to want to do this. Yeah. Because it's that nothing could come from it.

Right. That's such an awesome lesson. Because you don't even realize you're making excuses. Like, you don't even realize that everything you're saying is a justification for why you shouldn't succeed or why you can't try. Absolutely. And then when someone points out to you, like, oh, no, all of this is excuses. Like, not even in a hateful way. Just like, what you're doing is rationalizing your own failure before you've started.

And when someone points it out to you, you go, oh, yeah. I was bringing my mom into this when she has nothing to do that. That's so true. And I was saying I don't have the thing that you need. This resource or this. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And sure, there are people without those reasons.

resources and they don't have the things that would make the ideal scenario. But if you're constantly thinking of why it's not going to work, like, yeah, I also think if you're too attached to some other outcome that actually has nothing to do with the craft, right? That's the thing is that I think that that that film made me understand that like, like me being a creator being attached to an outcome of like a lot of money is detached from the outcome of getting to be a creator every day. that can be achieved at a lot of different levels. And so are you happy with that? Is that the outcome you're looking for?

Yeah. Because if the outcome you're looking for is financial, there's other ways to get there that are actually much more rational and easier. That's the worst way to get to. Yeah, this is the worst way to get to that outcome. Yeah. And so that's a really important thing to understand is like the outcome you're looking for is just to become a working creator to keep doing it.

To just be supported doing the thing you like to do. Yeah, you corporatize yourself before you've even created a product. Yeah. Which, like, again, corporatization is not necessarily bad, but it is like the rigidity and structure that a lot of creatives need. But when you're starting from that point without any type of creative seedling, like you're kind of screwed before you start. I think you want to try and keep yourself in that pre-explosion of skateboarding, pre-exposureion of hip-hop space, right? Where it's like nothing can come of this because I've never even seen anything come of it. Yeah, exactly.

There's no one ahead of me. That's the purest space. Yeah, like there's no one ahead of me that's ever, you kind of have to imagine, right? Like imagine no one ahead of you have ever done anything. Yeah. I think that's one of the things. But that's the hang up. It's one of the things we're talking about right now is like everyone is too aware of the implications of a good YouTube video right now.

Like there's too much tied to a successful YouTube video where it's like money, notoriety, you know, respect, a gold play button. Like there's too many things attached to success that it makes you very attracted to the outcome. of success, not the craft of making. Yeah, and you can't even separate them. Like, I tell people this all time, like, with stand-up, I genuinely, and even with like this, I genuinely don't have any aspirations of fame. I don't, I truly don't care. And it's, like, kind of hard for people to think that, like, oh, you put yourself

out there and you make content all the time. Sure. I genuinely see it as, like, a byproduct of doing great stuff. Like, in the way that, like, an NBA player might not be wanting fame, but by virtue of being a great NBA player, you will become famous. Yeah. And I, yeah, like, I don't. post like on my story. I don't post like stuff I'm doing that day. I don't like I'm not trying to go

out of my I have a hard time posting just because I genuinely am not that obsessed with the idea of being famous. And I think that is a major advantage because of that is the thing you're constantly thinking about. Where like, oh, I have to get this. I have to get. I think getting married young also helps. Like I'm not like obsessed with like attracting female attention. Yeah. So I think that also makes the product a little bit more pure. Like I see comics sometimes that are like do jokes and then girls will walk in and then do different jokes. Like they'll have like an edgy like joke or whatever and then girls will walk in and they'll be like, so I was hanging with my bestie. And I'm like, oh, you're trying to get laid.

Like you're like changing your craft in order to like attract women. How much time have you transformed since you got married? Like who were you when you got married? Bro. I mean, I've transformed a lot from that moment just in terms of like responsibility and things. But I've been with my girls since I was like 17. Wow. Wow. So we've been together a time. And I'm saying, short hair. Short hair, I was with her before I did stand up.

Interesting. I've been with her for a long time. So has she challenged the kind of like short hair, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But like the societal, like it seems like you went through a phase of having kind of rigid, a rigid view of the world. Right.

And then that kind of expanded. Yeah. And you netted out in a place of like heavily questioning a lot and then found a new, you know, long hair version of yourself. Yes. Which is a typical story. Yeah. But has she gone through that same transformation?

Yeah, yeah, I think so. I mean, she was probably less rigid. And weirdly, like my worldview wasn't super rigid. My mom's like big into like conspiracies. So like as a kid, I'm like 10 years old, like debating like building seven. I'm like, dude, like how did it fall at free fall speeds? You know what I'm saying? You guys don't even know about that.

You guys aren't even on that shit, bro. You don't even on my wavelength, dude. But like literally I'm like debating with her about like the Rothschilds like Soros, like, like a moon landing shit. Like we're going into it as a kid. I see. So everything is up for question except the one true God, you know, holy Catholic apostolic. I see.

So you guys bonded on that a lot. Like that was important. Dude, Catholicism and conspiracies like questioning everything. And then even questioning your own faith, I would come home and have like staunch religious debates with my mom at like 12. Because I went to a Presbyterian school. So like my school, like if you're not familiar with Christianity as a Jew and a Hindu. I went to Episcopalian. school. Okay, yeah. So it's similar. So like there's like reformed Presbyterian ideology. And so the

school is Presbyterian. And then my parents are staunchly Catholic. So I'd come home and be like, hey, do we worship Mary? And my mom would be like, no, we don't worship Mary. We venerate, blah, blah, blah. Hey, is the Eucharist actually transubstantiated in the body of Christ or is it a symbol for it says, you know, in the Gospels of John? And she's like, well, it is trans, like, it's that kind of shit at like 12 years old. So there's a lot of questioning. And I think that kind of led me into questioning more things as it got older. And my wife certainly was a part of that journey, for sure. So yeah, her mind has opened up.

But she's just, I think, smarter than me. Like, she's much more sure of herself. Yeah. Like, she like got one rental, like, not even a rental car. She went to buy a car, test drove at one car, one time was like, I'm buying it. She wanted a husband. She met me. Got it.

One time. Yeah. She was like, yeah, I'm going to buy him. The car thing is impressive. Dude, that's what I'm saying. I'm over here like, I'm on Reddit. every single car looking at everything. What is this one saying about me?

What is that one saying about me? What's the best one? How do I maximize? I'm looking for convenience. I'm addicted to convenience, man. Yeah, I'm like, I'm not as certain as her. I'm just not willing to do the research and something I don't like, like, a car could be anything to me. Like, it's like, it's just going to get me somewhere.

Yeah. But that's how she is with everything. Like, I'll just show her a thumbnail. Like, what one would be like better? She's like, this one's way better. Well, that's an important decision. That is tough. That's it.

That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. her that thumbnail. No, and sometimes she's wrong, but she's confident in the one she's wrong about it. It's like a really,

like attractive quality to me. I think it's so cool. But like for you getting married, did you find that there was any ideology shift, any lifestyle change that you adopted that you think is better or worse? Yeah, I think I settled into like a different space. I thought you're about to say I settled.

I was like, dude. No, no, no, no, no. No, no. Like I just, I was able to like take a deep breath and like become, more of myself. Yeah. I think she's also a therapist, which really helps. Like she's great communicator. She code. Yeah, great communicator. Really, um, I don't know. I just feel more like myself now than ever. And I think that's also, you know, it's both being 30, but also having a really

good partner. Um, you just like are able to like figure out yourself. Mm-hmm. That's the best way I could describe it as like I feel like I am now the fullest version of myself. Yeah. And that is not something I anticipated with marriage. I thought marriage was very much when I was growing up, I thought like relationships, there was always some level of compromise in my relationships where I was like, okay, yeah, like this one part is kind of uncomfortable or like doesn't really work, but like everything else is good. So I'll just change that part of myself. And then we'll be good. Yeah, and then we'll be fine. And then, and like that can't last for a very long time. Right.

So yeah, I think like that's, that's been the most interesting. And then when you're that, whenever that happens, right, when you're like, actually a full version of yourself and pretty like relaxed, you can then move on to like the other parts that you want to explore in your life. Because everything else is like in your 20s or at least in my adolescence in my 20s, I was kind of trying to figure myself out. And that took up a lot of time, you know? And that's like, that's just like experimenting, trying things, you know, thinking a lot.

Like there's so much that you're trying to figure out about yourself that you don't have the mental bandwidth to do the other things. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like getting married, like even subconsciously, like no matter how, you know, faithful you are, even in like a dating situation, you're still kind of like emitting a broad, like radio frequency. Like you're like putting your energy out there to be like, who wants me? Who's attracted to me?

Still anything could happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Even if it's the utmost of seriousness. Yeah. And you know nothing's going to happen. Literally, yes.

Yeah. I'm building a business and that I'm going to post on my story because this one girl that I was flirting with that one time, maybe she'll see it or maybe who knows. Like there's just constant outward frequency. And once you get married, you're kind of forced, or at least you should be, to like, okay, now I just have this frequency that I don't have to put out anymore. It's going to be into my partner and then into myself. Yeah. Yeah. I found like the week before I got engaged to be incredibly feeling.

very out of control. Granted, it's a very, like, stressful week. How old were you got engaged? I mean, this was in December. Oh, six. You were fucking 16, dude. That's great. That's big. Yeah, it's 33. Okay, cool. Yeah. And you're 33, how old? You're 30? I'm 34 now. I turn 34 January. Okay, six. I'm 33. Okay, cool. Yeah, we're like mature guys, you know, we're mature podcasters. You want to, you want a cold open with that? Yeah, start with that. Yeah, we're like tough big boys. Yeah, we were sportsmen.

Yeah, we're really, we're legit big boys. Yeah, yeah. We boxed at that boxing gym I told you about. That's right. So you've been married since you were 30? Yeah, actually. Yes. Okay. Yes.

I had a, I got, I had a, uh, uh, COVID wedding like in my parents' backyard and then had a big Indian wedding. Like a week long. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Two years later.

So it's like kind of like I try and think I'm like, I got married last year, but I actually got married in 2020. So yeah, three years. That's far. Yeah. And I'm sorry. I cut you off. You were saying that the week of your fly control.

Yeah. I went from feeling like very out of control and granted it's a crazy week when you're planning to get engaged a huge decision and there's like a lot of moving parts But to like that next morning feeling incredibly in control and like you were saying like that frequency I feel like it just kind of like goes away. Yeah, and it's like a very comforting feeling. Oh my gosh. You know, I'm just like oh, that's gone It's the best. I genuinely like people ask me and I'm not like married yet. I'm still in this phase where it's not like yeah, no, it's not gonna it's not gonna work out for sure Yeah, yeah, yeah But I get what you're saying. You are married though. You know, you know. You know, like, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that's how it is for guys. I actually, be honest, I don't think guys are married until we have kids. Girls are married. Girls are married. Once you pop the question, girls are married. And then once you have kids, then guys are married. And guys will be like, dude, I'm married. That's interesting.

But every guy when they're married knows, like, all right, I'll give you half my shit, and then I'll be free to do whatever I want. Like that's, I think what most guys are thinking because they're like, like, worst case scenario mentality. A guy can still get married at 50, like socially, rightly or wrongly. That is sort of the way that the paradigm. functions and you can still have kids yada yada so it's like I don't think guys fully like I think kids for me will be the next phase where I'm like that's a very life-changing moment yeah

that's one that you can't reverse you're a dad you're a dad yeah and like that feels just more of a personal freedom thing I don't always think about it in the confines of the relationship but just of like yeah having a child it's just I think about I think about what I'm doing sometimes on a Saturday or a Sunday or after work and just think Oh, no, drastically different with a child. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I have a lot of friends who are having kids right now, and it's really interesting to watch it happen and how much it dramatically changes their lives. Yeah. I don't really know how you, I don't know how you, I don't know how like some people are entrepreneurs and have a kid. It's crazy, right? I don't understand that. Yeah.

Yeah. Especially if both parents are working. Yeah. Like if it's a single parent or whatever, like that is so tough. That seems really challenging. Yeah. And like, I don't know, take the kid to work with you. I think about that sometimes.

I'm like, I would love to do that. Like, if I'm on the road, like, take my kid with me. Like, that'd be so fun. Like, I don't know. Like, my kid will be a carny probably or like a weirdo. But I'll take one. Traveling is a tough part of the like kind of creator or performer journey. You know, like it's so fun.

And like, we're traveling right now. We're in New York. We did a gig yesterday. Like, that was really fun. Great. And I love like this feeling of being out and about. Out and about. Like, obviously in New York City.

New York City is like, Unbelievable. Yeah, you're on Omaha. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, Omaha. Yeah, sorry, Omaha. But yeah, you get to come to these cool places and do the, like, I think I'll have a different relationship with this when I have a kid at home.

Yeah. I'll be like, I kind of need to get back, I think, right? I don't know how that will mentally change the whole form of being like a person on the road. You guys strike me as good parents already. Like, I feel like you have the aptitude to be good parents. But like all my siblings, like I said, my parents have seven kids. I have five older siblings. Wow.

And they basically all have kids. And it's cool as thing how they've changed with children. And it's like you think about all the inconvenient things because you see and understand the consequence of what children will do to your daily routine, but you don't have the positive benefit of loving something so unconditionally that you don't even, like it's hard to balance the two.

Yeah, of course. You know what I mean? Of course. Like it's an unfair thing to think about when it's like Saturday night and you're like, oh man, if I had a kid, this would suck. Because you only have a reference point for what you do during your time.

free time. Not how wonderful it could be or what the experience could be. It's like imagine you're hanging out on the couch and then there's the greatest thing ever you could be doing. And then you're sitting there on Saturday night being like, oh, this would be drastically different and way, if I was had a kid, I'd much rather be hanging with them. You know what's interesting is being in L.A., there's never really like being in L.A. in your 30s, there's nothing going on. You know, like you're. Man, it's so dull. You just kind of see. In kind of the best of ways. Yeah. It's not very accessible. Like in New York, even being here for the couple days, it's like everything is so accessible at all times.

Nonstop. Nonstop. Anything you want 24-7. Yeah, at all times. It's always accessible. And like there's people to hang out with. There's one of the strangest things we were talking about this before is being in New York never feels like you're alone, especially if you're like a creator or a podcaster or someone

who makes stuff. Because the probability of someone being a viewer or a listener to your stuff on the street is so high here. At least I felt that whenever we. come here. Like, right when we landed, we got to our hotel and immediately get out of the cap. They're like, Andrew O'Cosh, what's up? That's good. That'll have. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Thanks, guys. But yeah, it's just like, you know, someone will just be like, hey, guys, love the show. And like, you're just, whoa. And like,

you just, in L.A., you feel very alone. In a good way when you want to feel alone. Right. But then sometimes when you don't, it's like, it's just not. Yeah, I can feel isolating. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, yeah, I can see that, especially in New York, like, there's just so much frequency. Like there's so many people in such a small little window. And people are having a shared experience. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, like everyone's taking the subway because, dude, by the way, like getting in an Uber here is a bad experience. It's a whole thing. It's a whole thing because you have no idea if you can trust Google Maps. If it says it's 15 minutes, no idea. Is that 15 minutes? Why do they put the number? Just be like, hey, it'll take a little. Yeah. Like, because the number is

irrelevant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In LA, it's pretty accurate. But in New York, it's like, I don't know, there could be a guy. This morning, I got an Uber and there was a guy, they were painting the the pedestrian walkway at nine in the morning. Yep. On 5th Ave. Probably wasn't even done by the city. It was just a citizen. I was like, we're going to do some painting today. And then the city was like, okay. This should be done it like two in the morning, right? You would think. Yeah. Nope. It's crazy. That's the whole city. But I truly think it is like the greatest place, in my opinion, for me as like a creative to be because I think so much of stand-up is just like commenting on the human experience. Totally. And the best way to comment on the human experience is to be around humans.

Like this is the greatest. Like I've actually stopped listening to music to create more. Whoa. Cool. Like there is this I like I would placate myself with music, I think that like I would wake up, turn on my favorite song to feel good. I don't even need coffee. Like I listen to like return of the Mac. That's my coffee. That's all. Yeah. I'm on it. Like I doesn't even matter. You lie to me. I feel great. So I wake up, listen to that. That's the clearest I've ever heard someone say the line. Because that line is pretty, you mean, you know, that line's a little bit more.

Yeah, I did the AI. I did Adobe to it. It just kind of like brightened it up. Just the treble part. I can do that on the fly. But yeah, I would like do that when I wake up. Go to the gym. Listening to music.

Fred again and Skrillick. So Coach Hela. Boom. Listen to that all the way through. Go in the shower. Listen to more music or a podcast. Bike to work. Listen to more music.

I got my Spotify unwrapped. I was in the 1% of music. listeners of the whole app. Wow. The 1%. And I was like, that's not good. No one wants to be the 1%. I mean, that is what we do in LA.

Basically the same thing. Throw on music, throw on podcasts. But my issue is like- Emma Chamberlain just talked about the concept of like having a, having the necessity of always having something on. Yeah. That's what I was doing. Yeah, I'm like that too.

Like I think that's good. And sometimes I noticed that I'm not even listening. I just need it on. Yes. I like turned on Phil DeFranco the other night. And I just had it on while I was packing. And then at one point I realized it was in the other room

and I hadn't listened to it at all. But I spent time searching for something to put on so I could start packing. And I was like, whoa, okay. Yeah. I need to take a break from this. It probably wasn't even on. That was just your latent schizophrenia

just kicking in. Garrett, Philip, stop turning the lights on, dude. That's, it really is crazy though. Like I'm constantly finding myself placating with just stimulus. When as a comic, I feel like it's obligation of the thing I love to do is to observe human beings. I love being around people. I love humans so much that I'm doing myself a disservice by getting on the train and tuning out.

Yeah. When I should be tuning in to this shared thing that we're all doing. But everyone on the train is on their phone. Some? Yeah. But then some are having a combo and you hear them and you're like, what are people talking about? Yeah. Some people are reading books? Yeah. And what is the book that they're reading? I'm looking at that. Like, what does the train sound? Like, what is the person that's talking? Like, you're cutting off an entire dimension of your sense.

And when you're not hearing stuff, I don't think you're looking at stuff in the right way because you're not responding to auditory stimulus. I don't know if you can even smell things in the same way. I feel like it blocks off so much of the way you're interfacing. That is something that I really respect about comics is that they're like such incredible observers of the human condition. And then the next step is like they have to deliver it to us in a way that's like,

you know, that makes us laugh. I don't think that's only comics though. I think that is a trait shared amongst all creatives and artists. Like we just happen to convey it in like a very direct. Musicians are like that too. Same thing. Yeah.

I mean, I think like with every edit we make, maybe not in an interview, but in a documentary or story driven piece, like we're making a decision based off what we think, how we think humans will respond. Yeah, of course. Like the general consensus of humans at large. YouTube creators are making decisions based off that. Yes.

And in order to understand humans best, I think it is imperative to not be placating yourself with external stimulus at all times. Obviously, I'm going to listen to music of the gym. Sometimes I'll go to the gym without headphones and I'm like, what is this place? I'm just sweating in a room with dudes. Sometimes I look at the gym and I'm like, what are we all doing? This is a very, especially in New York when it's really nice out. The other day it was so nice out.

And we went to the gym and it's like underground. Yeah. And it's just like it's in a dark cave. And everyone's looking at themselves and lifting these heavy objects and you're like, what is this place? What a weird thing. What a strange thing. I took a run in Central Park this morning. That was awesome.

The best. That was amazing. Casey does. He goes on the west side and just like runs five miles of six in the morning. That guy runs a lot though. Like when he posts, I'm always like, that's like a marathon. You know, like, are you casually running a marathon? Yeah, he'll warm up with just a half. Yeah. A half marathon just in the morning. It's insane. Even when it's like freezing cold or raining. He doesn't care. You can catch him. Go to the west side. Sixth of the morning. You'll find him. I'm not going to be there. And then you can pick up a shift painting sidewalk crossings. Like you can have a whole day of it. It'd be awesome. But yeah, I just think the constant need to stimulate yourself, I think is hurting creators.

And it's hurting me. Like, I find that when I'm just, like, it's so funny to me, people are like, dude, I love showering. I come up with the best ideas. I love going on a plane and not having Wi-Fi. I come up with the best ideas. It must be the plane. It must be you not being on TikTok listening to Kendrick Lamar all day.

That is, again, man, it's the little kid who wasn't on his phone on the bus. That's what I'm saying? What if the pilot on my plane has a seizure? Then what? I'm going to land that plane. Exactly. In the Hudson. Call me Thully.

I can do it. I can save it. of us, dude. I do find that so amazing about being on a plane. I very rarely buy the Wi-Fi, only if I really need to send an email. But I like try and stay away from that because it's the sacred time. Is it a thing to get emotional on planes? If you watch a movie on a plane at a TV show, are you more likely to cry? Well, only in the air. If you're just taxing and you start crying, you might have something going on. But is that a thing? Truly, in the air. I feel like the likelihood that I will cry. Yeah, no, they talk about it.

Hi. Yeah, yeah. And like same with like taste. Who's they? Just people? The Jewish media. Okay. They, dude. I'm telling you. My mom's a conspiracy theorist. I don't know what you want me to tell you. But that's a, he's Jewish guys. I don't know if you guys know this. He had locks and use me as like, no, I am. He's my token. He had locks and bagels on Easter, okay? But like, no, apparently that's a thing. Like scientists. Dr. Huberman. Doctor's. He talked to. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Huberman really came on the scene and just took over. He's the doctor. He's the guy. Literally. Yeah. He's they. He's they. He's the thing. He's a He's that, dude.

He's him. That is one sexist thing. Dude, he's, on your show. What? He talked about like the perfect week of working out. Yeah. Do you really? Yes.

Wait, I missed it. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, you're right. Yeah. He's gonna be in Division 1, the cross. You got no chance. He's the goal score. Yeah, yeah, I gotta work on the IQ.

You could just listen to it too, you know? Yeah, no, I'll get a shot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but then you'd have to listen to our show. Yeah. But then I'm not going to be plugged into life. as it's actually happening. And then what? You know what I'm saying?

Like just observe the world around you. Why do you need a strong body? You can't observe the human condition. Thank you. That's why I didn't listen to Huberman. Yes. Boy, what is the perfect week? I don't remember that.

So there was there. It was three days of lifting. Yeah. One day of like steady state cardio. And then one day of sprints. And then there was one other day. I don't remember what that day. Jaws or size.

You do one day of Jaws or size. Oh my God. I almost bought the Amazon Jaws. thing recently. Is that real? Are you being serious? Because it was so compelling. I watched a TikTok ad and I was like,

that's compelling. That's a compelling reason to buy that. Yes. He was talking about like cavemen had to have good jaw bones. Yeah. To like rip meat. I was like, sure,

I'll buy that. Is it like firm up your face? Yes. It gives you a jaw line. The thought is like men nowadays are cucks and liberals. And the reason is because we don't chew strong stuff. And that like because we're not like eating meat off the bone and like chewing stuff all the time.

and like building up these jaw muscles. Okay. We're actually having underdeveloped facial features. We're also because we're breathing through our mouths while we're sleeping, yada, yada. So the mouth breathing thing, that worked for me. That tracks. That tracks. So the mouth breathing thing, that's legit.

But then the idea is like by chewing through your mouth. Chewing hard stuff, you build up your job muscle. Ever. Wait what? You got a nose breathe. At all times? At all times. How do you train yourself to do that?

Tape. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's a real thing. Do you do that? Well, I think about it now. At night, if I'm mouth breathing, I'll make sure I cut it. I heard you know when you were asleep.

He said it literally makes you more attractive. Yeah, yeah. Like that's what he said. He's like, only you said more attracted. Okay, I'm not going to put words in his mouth. I don't think he's like, Colin, you're going to be handsome now. Look, that's how I read it. I like that's what you think you're missing in life.

I keep tabs of my mouth. You're just like, dude, if I just breathe with my mouth shut, I'll be banging everyone. It's going to be an issue for my girl. It's going to be nonstop. You know what I'm missing? That's why he doesn't have the ring on. You just got to cut the mouth. He's like, I'm working on, I'm working on cutting my mouth.

Yes, dude. That's what you're missing. It was pretty compelling. I saw a comic on TikTok. He's like, I've been, you know, trying to build up my jaw muscle. So I've been going to sleep every night, you know, with a ball gag. And I was like, Jesus, dude, that's wild. But I liked it, though.

I think that'll also help. You can go ball gag or tape and then it'll build up your jaw muscles. Cool. Yeah, so try that. Explain that to your girl. I'll try both. Yeah, at the same time. Nice.

But yeah. Make a YouTube video about it. Yeah, yeah, do that. Yeah. I try the humor method. He's like, I never condone. There's also so many YouTube videos like that. Like, I lived like Andrew Heberman for a day.

Yes. And they have like five million views, all of them. Yeah, I watch them. Yeah. I am like, okay, well, did it work? Yeah, it's interesting. It kind of came out of nowhere for me. Wake up in the morning and look at the sun.

Mm-hmm. That one's good. It all makes sense. That's a good, Hubermanism. Yeah. I feel like we're on some like native shit where I'm like, if I could just, I want to ground in the morning. I seriously, I, in Florida, I wake up, put my feet in the sand or feet in the grass,

just like my, get out there. I do that now. You just, why outside? I just have a soil. I just have a pot. Potted plant. Yeah. I look at the sun every morning now.

Yeah. Just straight into it. Before phone. Oh, I close my eyes, but I like look at the direction. He's like just. Yeah. I think that's so important of before the phone. But that's, it's hard to do some.

Dude. You know, it's hard. I mean, I do the phone in the other room now. Oh, it's so good. Do you have an alarm clock? I can't do that. Well, I wouldn't call my wife an alarm clock. Yeah.

I just call her my wife. But yeah, she is an alarm clock. Got it. Every morning. She wakes up at 6 a.m. Just naturally? Dude, 6 a.m. I'm up at like 8.30, crack at dawn, 8.30.

And she already has problems. She's already got stuff that's happened. She's like, I did this business meeting. I went to the gym. I got to fight with this person. She's got things to tell me as soon as I wake up. I'm like, how did you get so much done? It's insane.

So the second I wake up, she's like ready to play. Whereas she also goes to sleep at 8 and then I'm just up until 2. Yeah, which I much prefer. I mean, do you wake up early? My wife wakes up early. to go to workout classes and now I go with her. So like hot yoga and stuff like that. Like it's just.

She got you. Yeah. Yeah. Man, I'm a night owl, but I'm like trying real hard. Screw it, dude. I don't believe in that. I don't believe in that. This is society, bro.

This is, dude, this is society telling you, you got to wake up early. Yeah. I feel like I do my best work at night. Like late at night, come up with my best ideas. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think the assumption that should always be challenged is that there is like one rule for all of us.

I think like we assume. assume that we are much more like similar and we are very similar but like it's very subjective. Yes. And like that's an okay thing to be subjective. Yeah. And then don't get pissed to people because you followed their regimen for what to do and it didn't work. Yeah, totally.

It's like bro, like you got to figure this up for you. Yeah. Like don't ever take advice. Like I took fitness advice from like people that were jacked and they're like, yeah, dude, just like eat and then go work out sometimes. Totally. And then I'm like, yeah, I've been doing that and I don't look like you. Yeah.

And it's like, yeah, because what worked for him was just kind of doing nothing and he's an elite athlete. And it didn't work out. I'm like a high IQ guy. And so I have to like actually do a lot of work. But yeah, you have to like come up with your own little. Us IQ guys. Yeah. That's what I'm saying.

You got to come up with your own little. I'm just a body guy. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. But yeah, it was the wildest thing is from that Huberman episode, people and I saw only one of them and I think it got taken down. But people are doing AI generated ads about stuff that he didn't talk about.

Yeah. And Rogan too. It was him and Rogan talking about like a protein supplement and it was selling it. Yeah. That was crazy. That was crazy. Yeah. What do you think of that?

Like, that's wild. I think it's, I think AI is a lot more substantial than maybe we're even allowing us ourselves to talk about. Like, um, that's my alarm. Are we done here? Okay. My wife. Is that it? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Part two. Yeah. Yeah. To be continued. We stop at all the interesting creator stuff. Yeah.

Just about ghosts. Exactly. I'm like, you think aliens are gay? What's up with that? This is such a different show. I'm into it. It's what I'm saying, dude. It's nice to it.

The cameras aren't even on. There's no Wi-Fi. Yeah, I just got that vibe. This is not real. I did get that vibe. Like, this isn't real. I truly don't care people listen. I really don't.

It's like my favorite thing. I try to make the thumbnails and titles good to make it interesting, the intro, yada yada. I don't care. I really only care if people listen because then that means they get to talk to cooler people. Right, right. Right. Like cool on you guys.

Yeah. Yeah. We're just here. For now. For now. Yeah. We'll be replaced by AI. Yeah, exactly.

I hope. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, like, I think the advances are so dramatic. Like, even right now, you're, you're cutting within A-Tem right there, a switcher, right? You're doing autopod. So you think. Yeah. We've recently switched to autopod.

Same. Young Will over here. Killed me on his Instagram story, bro. I was dying laughing. So to get a 1080 live switcher, basically, if you're doing a podcast, you have a podcast, you two options. You can have their live switch where you're switching through angles in real time. That way when you're done with the conversation, you have a fully formatted video file that you can work with. Or you have to go through and cut every little thing. It's like a switcher afterwards

in Premiere Final Cut. And it takes literally real time for however long the episode is, like three hours. It sucks. Or in order to get a 4K switcher, it costs like 50K. It's like insane. It's like literally $5,000 or whatever. Which is strange. But at this point now, switchers are going to be gone. Literally. Because also, with a switcher, you're naturally going to be a second delayed. Yes. So, or two seconds delayed. Yeah.

And that's been a really wild change in our process that has like sped up the process. Can you explain autopod to people? Yeah. So autopod basically will read the waveforms of who's talking. So if I'm talking right now, it'll stay on my camera. But now I'm talking. Right. Now it's on my camera.

Exactly. And then if I start talking, it's still on my camera. It's still on my camera. It's still on Mars camera. Yeah. Because Colin's cameras. We've programmed it in. Don't cut to me.

If Colin's talking, we're cutting it. Yeah, it's cut. Move on. The strangest thing is how well it knows, like, when to cut to the wide on our show, because we have a wide. Yeah, and that shows everyone, and it will cut to the wide. And so it's doing it with incredible precision because it's based on the waveforms rather than based on, you know, a human being.

And I think what's interesting is that, like, AI has changed trust in offices. Like, I think all of us as a team trust autopod more than we trust any single individual in the office, right? Well, that one kid, Tiger. I trust him. Right. Yeah, I trust Tygo a lot. I trust Tiger.

Yeah, yeah. What do I call him, Tiger? Yeah, yeah. Tiger was called a show. Yeah, which was very funny. Yeah, I trust him the most. Yeah, yeah, same. Yeah.

But like that, that, it's changed that, right, from the creation level where we are starting to, like, we run all of our YouTube titles through ChatGBT. So we'll write a title and then we'll be like, give us 10 variations of this. And even if we don't use it, we just want to see. Right. And we'll keep giving it. It's essentially like sitting in a brainstorm being like, what else could it be? What else could it be?

And then literally like, give us 10 variations that are more interesting. Give us 10 variations that are more sensational. Like, you can just keep going on that and it'll give you something. Yeah. It's better than what you came up with with your own. Ten variations more sexual. Sure. Yeah.

Yeah. Just to see. That's our show. Yeah. But yeah, it's a. So that level of trust has changed, right? Where it's like, I almost don't want to put something out. unless we run it through just in case.

Right. So it's like just in case. And then we like transcribe everything and, you know, very quickly with Descript. And now we've created voice models of Colin and I in Descript, which is another crazy thing because they're getting better. It's strange to like, people talk about like, oh, you train an AI voice model. It's like, what does that mean? But we're doing it in real time where it's like it'll ask us to say, give me Samir's

voice, angry, give me some ears voice sad, and you can plug those in. And then all of a sudden, the voice model starts to get better and better and better. And it's strange from the creation side. On the consumer side, like, how are we going to know what to trust? Like that, that feels like George Orwell, War of the Worlds stuff. George Orwell, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where War the Worlds played on the radio. Orson Wells. Orson Wells. Orson Wells. There it is not George Orwell. Yeah, Orson Wells. You know the setting for that was in my hometown, walking distance from my house. Really?

Really? Yeah. Interesting. Were your folks listening to it? Like your great grandparents or some shit? We didn't go back that far in that area. Okay. Well, then why'd you bring it up?

Stop cutting his camera. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cool. Yeah, yeah, cool. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, when that played on the radio, it was like one of the first times the fiction was read on the radio. And people took that as reality.

And like there was people who committed suicide and people who fled their houses and people thought it was a real story about an invasion. If anyone doesn't know, this is a story where basically it's a radio broadcast of aliens invading America. That's right. And in Collins. For the record. Yeah. It was Collins' dad that made it. And it's literally his hometown.

And they basically played out like it's a real alien invasion. And they put one little disclaimer at the beginning like, this is not a real event. This is a reenactment. And then just. went through the whole thing and people were like, holy shit, this is insane. It's happening. Yeah. And so I think there's a little bit of that where it's like the intensity of output and content. Like how do we at what point do we start questioning? Is that coming soon where like everything I see I'm kind of like, what's that? You know, is that real? Is that not real? And I think it's especially scary on the

podcast side or like the audio side. Because audio voice models, for people who podcast a lot, there's a lot of you out there. So that can, you know, Rogan, have you heard the Joe Rogan AI experience? Oh yeah, it's my favorite podcast. Dude, the Sam Altman episode is like pretty compelling. Yeah. It's fun to listen to.

And I was listening to it just to hear what it sounded like. And then Rogan asked Altman about how Chat Chapti works. And he starts answering. And I'm listening to it. And then I'm just listening to it. And I'm like, that's a good answer. I want to know more. Yeah.

I want to hear the next question. And who wrote that answer? Probably chat TPT. Exactly. So he should know, right? Yeah. So that, I think, the trust on the consumer side, I also don't know when that comes into question, or if it matters.

Yeah. I don't know. Will they be entertained no matter what? There was a YouTube short I watched with Rogan's voice explaining how to use a barbecue. And at some point, I recognized it was obviously not him. But someone had used his voice model. And it made the short more interesting. And it was almost like the modern form of memes might be like using someone's face or voice.

to do something that's obviously not them. Right. I don't know. I don't know, man. I don't know what to think. Like, it's happening so fast that I don't know. If it's entertainment, then I don't think anyone will care. If it is now breaching the line of like politics or something else, that's where it gets like

really controversial. I don't even know how you like moderate that. No idea. Like this crazy event happened. Now there's a ride in the streets. Oh, wait. The event actually didn't happen. Like, that's a bad situation.

Yes. If it's like, oh, look at Drake rapping this Ice-Bice song. That's just funny. Who really cares? Yeah. Maybe like the creators, but as the general public, I don't think the impact is as significant as if it's a political thing. Yeah, I think the concern is like the boy who cried wolf situation, right?

Where like a boy says there's a wolf, there's a wolf, there's a wolf. And like, he's just messing with them. Yes. And then the one time there actually is a wolf and they're in danger, everyone's like, we don't believe you. Yeah. Like, I feel like that. Orson Wells cried alien. Yeah.

Like, that's the concern with AI is that like you see so much. stuff that you're so desensitized and you're like that's not real that's not real yeah and if it is real you don't believe it is real dude I was talking to uh this guy Sebastian erasouis he's a Chilean artist that's also like this just brilliant guy who's just like so sharp with like everything happening AI he was the first person I like really explained chat GPT to me like a few months ago this is like maybe like seven or eight months ago like when it was like chat chbtee won or some shit and he was like this is it going to be a thing and he created a reality that was insane to me as a creator like blue

my mind. Tell me if you've heard this. You can stop me. Basically, he was like, okay, chat GBT, you can program it to come up with, like, ideas, things that would be interesting. Now, what if you were to come up with, like, an API or some type of, like, advanced learning model that could then go through someone's history that they're browsing through on, like, Instagram or TikTok or YouTube in the way that YouTube already is taking and aggregating your, like, history, and then showing you new content, that is what the algorithm is. What if you can connect that with chat GBT to then come up with ideas that you would like? And then, Then what if you can connect that with Dali?

And Dali is now like AI art platform where it can come up with images. And then it can come up with photos that you would like. And now Dali, if you take a bunch of those frames and put them together, you can create a movie or a piece of video content that has never existed before. And we're starting to see this with like these Balenciaga ads that I forget who makes those, but they're brilliant and they're so fun. And so now you're making specific content for a specific person that only, only that person likes based off their browsing history.

So imagine when the algorithms first come out and Instagram is no longer linear. And people are like, oh, just show me stuff in the linear basis. And Instagram goes, you don't know what you want. You actually want the stuff that we know that you want. So we're showing you the things that you actually want to see. And that created a better environment for the consumer.

And it was blowing people's minds that like, oh, my feed is different than your feed. If you go on my Facebook, it's a lot of like videos and memes. But if you go on my dad's Facebook, it's a lot of like pictures and art articles. How is it possible that our same website is different? And I remember that blowing on mind in like 2016 being like, oh, that's crazy. Yeah. So now one variation ahead of that, it's not that your feed is curated just for you. I imagine the specific piece of content is

curated just for you and that it only ever existed for you before ever. Yeah. Like let's say you like funny videos of like dogs like playing with pigs. You don't need to wait, you know, every year for like another dog playing with a pig video to show up. It will just show up. It will just show up because that piece of content was created an actual video of a dog playing with the pig that never existed before just for you that only you get. But I think that takes out some of the collective experience of social media right now. Because it's not just for me to get entertained. Sometimes it's for me to find something to DM to my wife that's funny that can connect us and make us laugh together, right? Now think of the social equity though, if the thing that you got,

only you have. Yeah. Yeah, that was an original creation from your algorithmic input. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Wouldn't you want to share that and be like, look what my brain and the way I think came up with. Yeah. Like, it's literally outsourcing. It'd be so disappointing if it just was like a lot of uninspiring, unfunny stuff. This is me? You're like, dude, a guy farting again. And they're like, how does he do it? How is he keeps thinking of? Isn't that like already what it is? Right? I guess that's coming. And you're like, I'm really like that. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's me. I'm him. Yeah. But yeah, it is an interesting future where like what if that is. content where it's like I love looking at pictures of cool watches. Like I follow an AI fashion page. I really like fashion. Dude, AI fashion. Like so much of what I do on Mid Journey is create

really dope editorial fashion photography. Yeah. I found this great prompt and I like, yeah, I'll send it to you. I'll send you my props. You big mid journey guy? Yeah. Dude, I love it. I'm friends with the guy that's like in the world. He created now software that he basically comes up with prompts for other people. Like he like, yeah, yeah, engineer. Yeah, yeah, literally he has a name for. I don't know if I can say it. But like he calls it like, he says, I'm good at risen up AI. He's like, AI like is fundamentally like flirting.

You're basically flirting with a robot to be like, show me a picture of this. And then it shows you the wrong picture and you're like, I'm sorry, baby. I actually meant this picture. Like you're trying to like flirt with it to get the thing you want. So he's like, I'm good at flirting. He's like, I'm good at flirting with AI. How to talk to machines is like the next chapter. or the people who are good at talking about she and like you see how your parents google they suck at it

they like yeah yeah sure uh like the restaurant that i went to in 1998 like that's not how you use it yeah and or like the wrong input sentence yeah dear google um explain to me it's like yeah just put five keywords and it'll show you what you need yeah and that's a we google i hope you ever just throw a bone out there you're like we all do that right you guys you're like we all shit in the shower right right right guys we all right right right right right But like that's good like that's how it feels like okay I put five keywords in. I actually have no idea how I Google now that you said that I was like I think I do do like one or two words. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe five words like like I'm trying to find like back it up Terry. You seen that small time great video guy. Guy. I've seen a guy. I've seen a guy. I've seen a guy. I've seen a lot. Guy. I've seen in like a little. I've seen in like a little. I've seen in the shower. Yeah. That's a common. Yes. And how would you search. Yeah. It's a common. Yeah. It's a common. I guess. And how would you search like wheelchair. I guess you. I get you. I'm going. Take me. It took me a second. Yeah, yeah, I'm there.

And so that's how we Google. But now we're going to be chat GPT and Dahlian and mid-journeying like idiots. And our kids are going to be like, dad, that's not how you ris up the computer. Like if you're trying to flirt with the computer, you got to do it like this. And then they'll have the good prompts. Okay. I was so behind that I'm now realizing you were saying, Riz. Exactly.

Yeah. There's multiple levels here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I forget you guys are 34. We're not starting. You're not hardy, dude.

You should have just kept it to flirting. Yeah. No need to bring Riz into the equation. You're trying to play hooky with the computer. There you guys want me to say. It's like your players' d' down. Yeah, you're trying to court a computer. So you go to the dance hall.

You're going steady with this machine, right? Yeah, exactly, dude. You're getting chummy with an AI. And yeah, that's like basically what you got to do is flirt. And you found a good way to flirt with the Mid Journey. Yes, a very fun way for me. Yeah. I just, I think like, editorial photography is so cool. And like my family's in the fashion business. So I grew up around photo shoots and like it was constantly looking at, you know, a good photo versus not good photo. And mid journey's ability to generate an aesthetically appealing photo is unbelievable. And I think one of the most fun things is to put like in the style of X. You know, it's like Wes Anderson is obviously like a huge inspiration to a lot of people right now. Yeah. We're creating content. But like in A.m.

but you can do that in like Jacquesaumeu, you know, like in the style of Jacquesaumee, which is really cool. You can do like all types of designers or artists, which is such an interesting thing. And I don't even know how they feel about that. Yeah. If you are so easily generated by AI, is that like a weird feeling or a not weird feeling? Is that a good feeling? I mean, picture another YouTube creator saying, give me this video in the style of Colin

and Samir and then, finding a lot of success. Like a script that you read and a thumbnail. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You look at it and you're like, of course that's us. I think it's actually a compliment personally. Like, I don't think the replicability is an insult or a feeling that like your derivative or unoriginal.

I think it's actually the hallmark of originality. Like this is a thing that with comics, like if you can't impersonate someone, they don't have a unique style. Yeah. Like you can go, hey, what's the deal? You already know who I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. because he's crafted a lane that he owns.

Ooh, this is fun. Do another. Right? You'd be like, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. You know who I'm talking about. Yeah. Well, these motherfuckers. Wow. Yeah. That's just a black guy. That wasn't even anyone specific.

That was just in general. I was going for Dave Chappelle. That was Chappelle. And then it kind of turned into Bernie Mac. I feel like a little bit. I ain't scared of you motherfuckers. But yeah, like, if you don't have a thing that you can sort of replicate, then I don't know if you have a unique style. So the fact.

that someone can replicate you and everyone goes, oh, that's calling us to mirror. Yeah. That's true. I guess you're in a good spot. If that's actually happening and other people can recognize that. Exactly. Yeah. And so I think that is actually a good thing.

And but people look at AI and be like, oh, it's theft. Like they're taking ideas that already exist, formulating them into semi new ideas and then passing it off. But we've opted in to give our stuff to machines for a very long time. That's what I'm saying. That's been an opt-in for us for years now, almost 10 years, right? So I'm also like, how is that different? different than what any artist already does.

Also, like, algorithms are AI. Yeah, right? Like, we've been in this for a while. It's just like this first time that we've had access to generative AI. That's like a very jarring thing to watch. I will say my hope for an AI future as creators, when it comes to like that future,

we're like, what if half the things in your feet are just made by AI that no one's ever seen before just for you? Like, that to me is a very real reality. You could go to a movie, and be like, hey, this is a movie for Samir. This is a movie for Colin. This is like, I sit down and it has maybe some of similar arc or like narrative. You need to go.

Yeah, we got to. Yeah. We pushed you to the limits. It's late out. Apparently, my wife is bugging. But no, like, imagine there's a movie that you're going to see. And it's generally the same arc, but it's specifically for you where the jersey that the guy wears is for you.

Everyone's shit in the shower. Everyone's shit in the shower, waffle stomping. The boys are waffle stomping. You know what that means? You don't know what that means. sometimes you should in the shower. We live. You should in the shower sometimes.

We live in a different world. You get what I'm saying. Waffle stomping. But like you shouldn't the shower sometimes. And it doesn't always go down the drain. So what do you got to do? Waffle stomp. So anyway,

we're all doing it, right? We're all doing it. We're all doing it. And that happens. But that's your future where you're watching a movie and guys are wearing your favorite jersey and Waffle stomping. But my theory is that the difference

with certain AI and why we will actually gravitate towards human creation is because fundamentally, what we look for in art is reflection in ourselves. Yes. And that when I see a guy run a two, like two hour marathon, and his name's Casey Nystab.

Yeah. And that's impressive to me. Yeah. Not because, not only because he did an amazing feat, but because he's a human that did an amazing feat. Like if an ostrich did it, I'd be like, that's kind of crazy. But I'm not as emotionally connected to it because it's not human. So when a machine makes something, yeah.

And that's going to be my thing is that we're going to use machines for like utility. And it's obviously going to make all of our lives. better. But when it comes to like looking at like Michelangelo's David, I'm not like blown away because of just the size of it or whatever. I'm blown away because it's another human being that has my DNA that is the same construction of makeup as me that made something so beautiful. Totally. I also think there was someone who said this that I don't remember who said this to us about video games. Like playing a video game against a computer was fun to a certain point. Yes. And then it was no longer fun, right?

Exactly. It gets boring after a while. Even if you're winning. Even if you're winning, it's just not that fun. There's no shared human experience to that. Yes. So I think that's one. And I think two is there's probably be a big rise in appeal for going to see like a movie at a theater,

going to see stand-up comedy and going to see plays, like live performance. I think will trade it a premium and be much more interesting over the next couple years. 100%. Because watching someone do comedy is like there's this like unbelievable tension to it that you just can't get anywhere else. Sitting in discomfort will become novel. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Because if everything's made for us, it's so tailored, it starts to feel the same. We were talking about how inefficiency will trade it a premium. Like I was thinking about, I went to go see John Mayer play solo with my wife. So good. He's great. He's amazing. But I was thinking about the concept that like watching him play, he was playing a song Neon, which is crazy.

He's like so good at the guitar and he played a riff for like three minutes before he got into the song. And I was like, this is the most. inefficient way to listen to neon right I had to drive here park parking is terrible at a concert you go in he starts riffing he's not actually playing the song for a while he's singing it but like we're there because of the unique factor of it in the collective experience right because the easier thing to do would just be to open Spotify and play the song so get arrested by a bike top that's right exactly yeah

that's right wow throw your phone in the back yeah yeah I really chucked it by the way. He made me. Yeah, you got a hatchback that. You can, you got space. If it's a civic, it's a way hard to get it back to. You got to throw us super hard. But yeah, that's a, yeah, that's a really interesting way to look at that inefficiency will become a sought after thing. Yes. Like, I think it's like kind of like camping, right? Like, the only people that like camping are the people that have comfortable lives. Like, yeah, if you're living in destitute poverty, you're not like, let's go to the woods. It's like, we're already there. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And So I think in that same way, as things become more comfortable, we'll seek out that type of

like strategic novelty. Yes. Because, you know, back to like the chat GPT title thing, we, you know, we're sitting in a room at the time, we were sitting in a room and all brainstorming titles. And I was like, is this inefficient? Is it more efficient for me to just sit alone with chat GPT? Hmm. Am I getting more options out of that?

Yeah. Right? And then that brought into that. That's, that's where I started thinking. about efficiency and I was like, wait, but the inefficiency creates like a lot of randomness, but is that replicated through the AI? Is there enough randomness in there? I don't know. But I think in this, the next five years will be very much dominated by talking to machines. And then we might get bored similar to playing a video game. I think being like it's not fun

anymore. Like one of the most interesting things to come out of this is going to be like the eradication of like language barriers. Like how strange is it that we're all the same species yet we can't communicate with each other? Yeah. Like a bunch of us just can't, like Like, can't do it. Yeah. And we assume all dogs can, but what if they can either? Yeah, like in any given place. You know what I'm saying?

That's true. Yeah. Now we're getting into the show. Yeah. I'm saying. We're starting. Well, now we're starting. Like, imagine what that does for all of us if, like, instantaneously, anyone around

the world can listen to it in their language. Yeah. Yeah. Because you have an audit. I mean, you've seen the AI models that are able to, like, switch out your mouth in real time. Yes. And like, I mean, Mr. Beast is doing it obviously like analog, you know, the old school way.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is so funny. With human beings.

Yeah. We're so friends. I was literally talking to my buddy Miles and he was like, dude, I talked to a girl from my hometown in Sarasota. I brought up chat GPT. She goes, what's chat GPT? I mean, what an idiot. And I'm sitting there, I'm like, dude, that was like six months ago.

None of us knew what it was. Yeah. And he was like, yeah, that's a good point. But like, it is crazy how quickly it's happening. That the idea of like, oh yeah, you know, getting humans to type in your subtitles and, you know, voice over your thing. That's the analog way. Live switching.

Yeah, but imagine looking back like 40 years from now and being like, remember when we all couldn't speak to each other? Right? That's going to be a thing. All seven billion of us. That's what it's going to be like when your parents are, your parents, I'm sorry. That's rude of me. Your great grandparents are talking about like the telegram or whatever and they're like, yeah, we couldn't talk to everyone. How old do you think Colin is? This guy's easily 60. Yeah, he's a clean 72. I mean, he's dressed like Larry David. Like, I don't know how old is. Like this is an old Jew. I don't know. But like, that is. Larry David Energy I've gotten that before. He does have LDE.

I've got an LDE. We literally said that before. Yes, Larry did get out of it. Let's go. I want the hat. But it is like, that is a thing. Like the way your great grandparents or grandparents or parents would be like, dude, yeah, I couldn't talk to my uncle.

Like, I was in college and, you know, it was across the country, you know, might as well have been a different country. Totally. And it's like, super interesting. That's crazy to us to think, oh, you couldn't just like email, call, text, whatever. And I think it's going to be the same way. Yeah. Like, whether it's through.

some type of like advanced learning thing with like a Google Glass that we're all able to hear each other or a neural link where like you're able to talk freaking Spanish or whatever and we can all just interface in real time. That's crazy. And also so exciting. Super exciting. That's my old. That's like one of my biggest regrets in life

is I don't have like a good grasp on other languages. I'm like mid at English and then even worse at French. Like I'm okay with French. But I'm like... Is French your first language? No, my dad's first language is They're both from Montreal.

Do you ever ask your dad if he thinks in French? Yeah, he doesn't anymore. He doesn't. He doesn't. Isn't that a strange thing to think about? Right? Yeah. You spent the first 16 years of your life only going in quang-wh-wh-wha-whan.

And all of a sudden now you're in English? You didn't know what I said? Was that you guys want to speak French? I was like Charlie Brown. Yeah, well that's how parents talking about him. But yeah, that is like crazy. He grew up speaking French, thinking in French, and then all of a sudden one day he's just like, yeah, I don't do that anymore. It's so strange.

So strange. But I mean, your parents like spoke Hindi all growing up, like thinking in Hindi. Yeah. Do they still think in Hindi? I would assume my dad does. I don't think my mom does. How crazy, right? Yeah.

And then when they talk to each other, always in Hindi. Yeah, mostly. Yeah, it's kind of like a mix, but yeah. English. Yeah. Yeah, my mom will pull it out if we're like at dinner or something and she's like, is talking about someone next to us or something, she'll pull out Hindi. Yeah.

I always feel cool because I have like a secret language. Yeah. There's some Pakistanis next to you're like, all right, let's bust it out. But it is so cool. Like what an amazing future that we could go around and then be able to connect with more humans. Like it's a bummer to me that I'm only able to connect with like 25%. But at the same time it's also going to be the loss of the experience of learning a language. Yeah, the beautiful nonverbal moments, the experience of learning a language. Yeah.

The camera's not on me anyway, right? Yeah. It's pointing at will. Yeah. We've gone by the time that happens. Got it. By the time the AI comes. Yeah.

He does look like that. Who knows how old we are? The camera's just on Will right now, and he actually just looks like a lo-fi hip-hop beats. Like, yeah. Well, I probably could stream him on a channel. Yeah, I want to do his music. For other pod producers, produce with me. Yeah, exactly.

Chill music. I feel like Jesse on our team would love that, too. Because he's always like chilling, you know, monitoring everything. Three hours in, is it done yet? No, yeah. Can I have hip-hop beats for pod producer? Yeah, you know? Not me, but I'm saying.

Exactly. No, no, producers. Like, you can pee right now if you want. Like being a pod producer, like you, have you had to pee? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you have to control yourself so much being a pod producer. Yeah.

Yeah. But keep controlling yourself. Well, Will, you know, Will got the job through our newsletter. Oh, yeah. I don't know if we started with that. The Publishpress.com to sign up. Where did we start? You could get a job too.

Yeah. Who knows, too. Completely unclear where we started or where we've gone. Yeah. Where we've been? Yeah. No idea. We've also ended 30 minutes ago.

Oh. Oh, great. Yeah. We're just talking now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Friends? Friends?

That's what's happening? What a world? You've just been screening your calls because the conversation is good. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, that is an exciting future, in my opinion, the idea that you can go around the world, connect with more people, create art for more people, create cool experiences for more people and that it doesn't have to be broken up by language. But at the same time, my Catholic brain is like, there's a whole story in the Bible about God smiting an entire civilization because they tried to all speak the same language. Yeah.

What's your relationship with Catholicism? I want to get a clean in on that. What's your relationship with Catholic? You can't do it. It's a hard word to say. It is tricky. Catholicism. Yeah.

Yeah. Cataholicism. I still really like the tenets of the faith. I feel like I'm one of the only people that ever existed that's like I'm not going to church as frequently as I did. And I don't like the rigidity of pieces of the faith that don't. seem as inclusionary to like accepting everyone and like people fucking up i don't like the guilt like necessarily related to it which i don't even look at as a feature of like catholic doctrine i

look at it as like a feature of like social dogma that catholics have picked up through fucking thousands of years um so i look at the faith is like yeah i think the tenants are generally pretty good i think the tenants of every faith that has persisted thousands of years yeah generally have good rules like Islam i think has great tenants and so many those tenants over with Christianity and Judaism is great tenets and Hinduism is great tenets and those big ones. There's a lot of overlap too. Yeah, of course. I grew up going to an all religions temple.

Oh, interesting. Super interesting. Whoa. I feel like it was mostly one religion. All religions Hindu temple. You're like, it seems like a lot of Hindus here. Yeah, it's called the Self Realization Fellowship. Whoa.

Yeah. Yeah. That's some woo-woo shit. Yeah, yeah, I grew up very woo-woo. That's cool. Yeah. Growing up on the west side of L.A., there's a lot of opportunity to grow up woo-woo. I definitely grew up pretty woo-woo. So what does the deal with that spot? So basically every

Sunday we'd go and they would read from a different scripture and sometimes multiple. So sometimes they would pick a theme and then read the passages from different texts that had that same theme. And then like the whole space is a lake. It's a beautiful place. It's like a, it's called Lake Shrine. And there's like essentially all the different paths that lead to the lake and they represent different religions and it's kind of metaphorically that like, they're different paths that end up in the same place. Right. Yeah.

And so like each path represents different religion. That's cool. Christian is probably the shortest path. It's just like a perfect dog. Want to get to the lake quick? Yeah. Exactly. I'm just saying. I'm trying to brag.

That's really funny. Yeah. And then there was a lot of like lessons. Like every Sunday there was like a meditation like a 15 minute meditation at the end. Yeah. It was like you sat in silence and you meditated. So it was a lot about like self-realization. That's like, you know, what it was called.

That's cool. Yeah. Was it confusing for you as a kid? Not really. I knew I was like my family was Hindu, but we didn't, we weren't like as religious as we were spiritual. Like we believed and we appreciated all of the religions and scriptures and thought they were all, they all had great tenants like you said.

But there was never like a hardcore like. you know, this is who we are and this is who they are. It was kind of like, you should learn about everyone. And this is what we all generally believe. Yeah. Like, like, here's like, here's how across years and years, we've all kind of come up with similar stuff. You know, so if you learn all of them, you're like, okay, these are the primary tenants that we've come up with. That's interesting. Yeah. I think that's an important thing to do for a lot of people. It's just like, whether religion or not, like whatever, whatever the other things are, you know, that aren't your belief system to learn about those.

Absolutely. Like, especially if you're following, like, this Abrahamic law, right? Like, if you are a Christian, you follow, like, an Abrahamic religion that was founded by Abraham. And, like, same with Judaism and Islam. Yeah. So, like, they're literally stemming from, like, the same, like, river delta. Sure.

And so, like, yeah, you can learn from all of them. I will say, I am grateful, like, growing up one specific religion. Yeah. I think it makes things, like, simple as a kid. I'll probably raise my kids Catholic because I like the structure of the faith just for mealy it's like it made a lot of sense like I also know a lot of people that

had very difficult times growing up Catholic for a myriad of reasons for them maybe it would have been more helpful to be at the temple or whatever but yeah I just like I like the way that it was structured for me interesting what your parents weren't religious at all no not really I mean my mom

was raised Protestant my dad Jewish but his parents were like hippie artists and so they didn't really celebrate that much of anything what did your dad do uh he's an architect okay cool yeah um and then like when we were growing up like my mom just loved christmas because fun but she would like put draodles in the stockings for my dad you know and like light a menorah yeah and then one day my dad was like you don't need to do that like you don't have to lay menorah because i didn't even really do that yeah um and we just grew up with like the golden rule like treat others as you wish to be treated and yeah i had friends that were religious and

I just didn't think anything really about it. It was just like, I'm not that. I just like Christmas and Easter and like holidays. Growing up, did you think about like God afterlife? Was that like a part of the combo in the family? A little bit, but my mom would always just say that like matter is neither created nor destroyed. So your energy will go somewhere. Bro, she's on.

She's on more of the woo. She's on your shit, bro. The woo woo-woo path. Some reincarnation vibes. Yeah, she just said, she was more agnostic, I guess, as she was older. I don't know. Some things out there. I just don't know what it is.

Yeah. You know, but I believe in something. There must be something greater. I just don't know what it is. Yeah. Which I think that's a completely reasonable take. Like, that's what most people probably should believe. Yeah.

It was a comfortable place for me to just be like, yeah, I don't know what's out there, but I believe in something. And in terms of how I interact on a day-to-day basis, I'm going to treat other people as I wish to be treated. Yeah. I mean, that seems like a great framework. But also I celebrate Christmas. And then everyone was like great. Yeah, because that's also the most fun. Yeah.

That is the most fun by a mile. Like, I don't know. Hanukkah seems fun. I did Hanukkah with my Jewish friends growing up. And it was cool, but it's like, that's a long time. There's a lot of, like, being in the house. You only had, like, one present. And the present thing wasn't even a part of it.

That was, like, co-opted to, like, not make the kids feel bad. Sure. Yeah. So, like, kind of trash. I mean, like, yeah, Kwanza, that's not even really, like, that's kind of not even as fun as Christmas, I don't think. I actually don't know what a Kwanza's celebration looks like. Me neither.

Yeah, and actually, I say Christmas more of like a fitting in thing. Like the majority of kids At my school celebrated Christmas Of course So the fact that I was a part of that And Easter I think made it easy Yeah You know

And presents are sick Yeah And presents are sick But yeah But the fact that I genuinely Had excitement for it My family celebrated it I think put me in it

Did you guys do Santa? Like the belief in Santa? Yeah Of course Yeah Really Oh yeah We did

You guys did Yeah Yeah Yeah was Santa real If you guys are doing it I remember being so convinced One year Same

That is insane. Like he's real. Whoa. And it was really just your dad. You're like, dude, Santa's Indian. Like, what are the odds,

bro? I had a lot of like, yeah, Indian superheroes. Like one time, like one of our really close family friends for my birthday showed up as Indian Batman.

And it's on VHS. So I have the tape of me like losing my mind. Knowing that Batman was Indian and that he showed up to my birthday. And he was like, this is awesome. This is the best. Yeah. So crazy.

He's so much paler in the movie. There was a stark contrast in the movies between this face and the mask. He's got like a real deep accent. They're like, this is also all right. This is cool. That's awesome, dude. That's wild. Did you have gadgets and stuff?

Have what? Like gadgets? Oh, yeah. This particular birthday, like, it's all our video. This particular Batman. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he showed up in like a black Ferrari too. So it was like a Batmobile type of thing.

And it was like, a rickshaw. It was much more similar to a rickshaw. Robin was just, Robin was just running in the front holding it, dude. He's like, come on, Robin, keep going. He's just going. He's got non-bred coming off the freaking belt.

This guy's awesome. He's got like a fucking claw jumps onto a train, rides off into the sunset. I like India. Sorry, I don't understand that. Explain that a little. I don't get it. Was that even in this episode?

I don't know where the episode started are either. I can't tell him. That's a great callback to something that happened. Right before we started recording. People in my college as a way to diffuse racial jokes would be like, hey, if you get told a racial joke, just have them explain it. And so Indians like trains. I don't know how to explain this to you.

I don't know if you don't know this yet, but you guys love the train the most, okay? Inside on the top. That might be true. Yeah, that might be true. It's you and autistic kids, trains. It's like nonstop, dude. We do love trains and we romanticize trains a lot. Oh, really? Like in Indian culture.

Yeah, yeah. Trains are very, like, romantic in Indian culture. My brother and I took an overnight train through India one time. It was a very, like, movie-like experience. There's people who, like, throw their luggage and run alongside the train and grab onto it and jump on it. And then, like, you know, they come around with the chai and, like, shake it to wake you up and see if you want chai.

It's like a very West Anderson. I mean, Wes Anderson made a movie about an Indian train. Darjeeling. You think because it was like the first magical, inexplicable form of transportation, Like horses, it was like, probably. Yeah, we've seen horses. We can sit on top of horses.

I'm sorry, dude. Yeah, this is too. No, explain that one. Sorry, I don't understand the magic carpet. You guys are magical people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I think there's a lot of like Bollywood movies set, you know, where the romance or like happens in a train or there's like a pulling apart when someone takes a train. I don't know. There's so much freedom to this podcast. Yeah. We can go anywhere. That's the point of life, bro. Yeah.

That's what I'm so great for. Flagrant is where like put in my hours, work super hard, make it the greatest show, and then this, just hang out. Literally, like, that is the purpose of the show. It's what is the environment that is the most natural that I can invite people over to have cool convos with? It's incredibly rare. I mean, it's definitely super rare to find us in this setting. We've never really been in the setting. We won't really.

Where we can. Yeah, we're not going to put this out, right? Yeah. Okay. My angle hasn't even been on the whole time. Yeah. I'm telling you. But I also will say, like, I felt very, I felt pretty nervous coming in.

to this because like you know we again like we're very specific with what we do or put out there yeah but I felt very comfortable in the show like it's been really nice that makes me so happy I appreciate you same yeah exceeding my expectations yeah thank you yeah I appreciate you guys taking the time to chat with me I think genuinely I this is awesome I've been a fan of you guys for super long and like I was so excited when Schultz was like yeah let's do the show like back in LA however long that was awesome yeah I mean you really pushed that I think yeah I mean I mean I I was just in Schultz's ear, just like, I'm telling you, these guys, I don't even know, like, how many subs you had at that point or whatever. I don't know how many subs we had, but that, that ended up being like a phenomenal.

People bring up that episode all the time. Really? It was the episode that stretched us beyond kind of, it's kind of funny because I consider Schultz and flagrant, all of you guys, to be way more YouTube now. Yeah. Than you were back then. Yeah. Way more. And so that episode kind of stretched us and showed that we could talk to someone outside of our,

like traditional YouTube's Of course. Because Schultz existed in like traditional media MTV. He was like our bridge to explore like what does the world

look like for us as interviewers outside. And I liked it for him also because there is like a stigma as like a comic of being like a YouTube comedian. And like you can put YouTube in front of any profession

and it puts it's a pejorative. Or even an entrepreneur because Schultz on that show shows up as an entrepreneur. Yeah. He's talking about his well yeah. He is like he's like the like the beautiful hybrid of like genius comedic force

and genius entrepreneur in one human being that happens once a generation. Yes. But yeah, it's that thing of like, I like the idea of destigmatizing being a YouTube comedian. And Schultz has done that. Like, I mean, every comic is a YouTube comedian.

Every comedian is an Instagram comedian because it's just permeated every platform. Yeah. And I think it's cool that that was the place that he could put a flag in the ground and be like, no, this is where we make cool shit. This is where we're not confined by, you know, corporate industries, whatever,

and we're able to like create freely how we want to. Yeah. And I mean, you've seen the ripple from that. Like, so many YouTube specials that are amazing and so many clips that are amazing and people making genuine careers out of posting stand-up that would exist behind a, you know, a corporation just freely on the platform. So thank you guys for doing that for Schultz and doing that for the fucking comedy world. When we're in New York, I love coming here. Really? Yeah.

I don't know. Like coming up and just like getting into the studio, it just feels like, I don't know, a world that I've always aspired to. to step into. And what way? It's like a studio. You guys have multiple shows that are shooting here. It feels like when I was a kid,

I really aspired to be a part of Hollywood. Like I loved the concept of stepping onto a movie set and there's multiple things getting shot. And I think that has become very decentralized now. And so whenever I get to be in an environment like this and there's a lot of these in L.A. that we get to walk into.

I'd say TMG is another one. Like walking into TMG is always so cool. You're like, damn, this is crazy. These guys are shooting, you know, and like I really look up to these guys. And I think coming in here, it's the same. It's like, I watch Flagrin a lot. Yeah. And so it's really dope to be in here, but then also to just like see how much is going on in here. It's really cool. That's awesome.

I appreciate it. I want to check out your guys space in LA. Yeah, the new space is cool. I saw the YouTube short. It looks awesome. Yeah. New space is cool. Yeah. The old one is cool. Like I actually really was impressed by the old one. I was like, oh, this is sick. The old one had a lot of character. It had a lot of character. Yeah. Yeah, it was a special place for sure. It almost feels like funny to be in such a big place now. It almost is like, whoa. Like when you're in a small space, doing whatever you can with what you have, you feel very much on that like artist's grind. Yeah. Yeah. It's in some ways those episodes are cooler to me. Like the fact that Schultz came to that place. Yeah. And that Hassan Minhaj went to that place. Yeah. He came there. Yeah. Like when

everyone was working in the same space. Yeah. That's why I fell with Orwell Studio and like Tony Hawk came. Yeah. And I was like, dude, like Michael Irvin came to that spot. Like, like, like, Michael Irvin came to that spot. And walked in, and the first thing he said, he's in a three-piece suit, briefcase, he goes, I've got too many footballs to walk into places like this. Yeah. And I was like, bro, that is a bar. And also completely true. It was a shit hole.

Yeah, right. And it's just so cool that those people gave us a shot in that time. I would say the same with you guys. Like, you guys walked into our space. And I remember everyone was sitting there in the back on that couch. Remember that? My brother was there. The whole back was full of people.

And it was like hot and no one could walk out because like the bathroom. He's going to go to the bathroom in the middle of the show and there's like 12 people in the back. Yeah, that was like a scene. Yeah. Yeah, that scene was cool. Do you feel pressure now that you're in like a more legit spot and that vice feeling we talked about

where like the overhead starts getting a little heavy and the episode's got to start hitting? Yeah, for sure. For sure. But I think also as a viewer, I root for people more when they're set up as shitty, when they're on the rise and they're just trying to do stuff. I mean, Mr. D.

I talks about that, like intentionally filming in 1080 to make the feeling more organic. Yeah. Yeah, I think definitely we have a lot more with more pressure because we staff, we have rent, we have expectations that we've set for ourselves, you know, and and most importantly, we have something. Like when you have nothing as a creative, it's very, you know, it's very exciting because you can do anything. And then when you have something, you have something to lose. Yeah. So. And how do you stay creatively organic and pure? Is there a process? Is there a convo? I think it's doing stuff like this that's like this is on paper not something we would do. Yeah. Right. Even off paper. Even off paper.

Really. Even if you took this to a typewriter, yeah. It's not something we would do. And it just stretches. I can't believe we're even here. I'm getting that vibe a lot from over here. To be honest, you're not the type of guy. We'd hang out.

He's like, normally we wouldn't be caught dead with you. I don't know how to stress this in the guy. This is a huge favor for you. There's no-go zone for us. I'm not saying it's a favor to you. Don't take it. Shultz, love the guy, you. Yeah, who even is this guy?

I don't even know you. I thought this was Barstow. I thought you were Caleb Presley. What's going on right now? I thought you were short hair marble. Yeah. No, but like stretching the bounds of what, like putting yourself in those situations where you're just like, all right, now we're going to express this part of ourselves. Yeah.

And just see what that's like. Also, the reality is you don't hit it every time. Yeah. Sometimes you make shit where you're like, well, isn't it? You do get more comfortable with failure in some ways. And I think that's been really nice. I am this year, as the person. pressure increased, like, there was a lot of strategic things to do at the end of last year

when we had a lot of momentum. And we kind of did different things than those things. Like, we launched a second channel that's a lot more intimate, a lot more like dedicated, right? And that actually took away from us doing stuff on the main channel, which was really firing, right? And so that's, that's already kind of like, huh, interesting, right? And then we're producing less stuff for the main channel. We did a big documentary at the end of last year. We haven't done another one of those. We have no plans on doing another one. That was Mr. B. B. Stubber. So good. Thanks, man. I cried twice. Really? Literally. I got emotional. Like the idea of him walking out and all these people cheering for him. Dude, I've watched this scene so many times. Bro. And for you guys to be

there. I mean, how insane. That was a crazy experience. Yeah. That was a really cool experience. What was cut from it that you were like, fuck? Like, I cannot believe we have to cut this out. This is like heartbreaking. Truthfully, not that much. Which is credit to. Credit to Jimmy and Reed. To Jimmy and their team. Because we send them a cut and maybe they had notes on two scenes the first time. And they didn't even get cut out. They got like either had to have added context or, yeah, cut around.

It was stuff without context. It was like Jimmy's having a heated conversation with an employee. And there's no way for us in the edit to give the context that they've known each other for 10 years. Yes. Stuff like that. I need help. I need answers. You guys, we're not figuring out how to do these photos fast.

Like him and Reed, they can butt heads. Yeah, and there's context. Yeah. People know that's Reed. That's his manager. Yeah. But I give him a lot of credit for A, inviting us to do that and be just being like, cool with just showing all those different sides of himself.

Yeah. That's very intimidating. Yeah. Like giving someone else all that creative control to be like, hey, you could make me look crazy. Yeah, totally. Like it is a high stress situation. Yeah. He was out of control, right?

He didn't have control over that situation, which is a pretty unique. setting for him. Yeah. That was a wild scene. There's it's so funny, there's people who were part of that opening who we were with that whole day and we have this weird bond with those people because it was so unique. Yeah. Like to actually be in a in a closed space with like 20 plus thousand people and a bunch of cops and people being like, this is out of control. You ever seen Dunkirk? They're all running dude. But like, you know the rhythm of Dunk Kirk. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. It's just like, um, for like two hours. Yeah. Three hours, maybe. That's going to be used in the intro. Yeah. Like, I was just looking at Colin's eyes. I was like,

that's an intro moment. That's what it was. Yeah. I get abduction. Dern. Dern. Dern. Like, dude, how long do they talk about aliens for? But it is wild, right? I mean, I was talking to this guy, Dan Levy. He's like a behavioral scientist. He said, the greatest way for two human beings to bond as one is to do hard things together. There's no greater way. You can go to a mixer, you can like the same music. It doesn't compare to two people doing a hard challenge at the same time to get. Yes.

I'm dealing with. Yeah. And so like sports teams, military, opening a burger restaurant. Like, just by a serenipity. Those are the three. Those are the big three. And you guys were just there. And like now you're inexplicably bonded for eternity, dude. In the afterlife,

you're going to be like, Tarek, what's up? Jimmy. What's up, dude? Dude. I love Tark. He's the best. I'm hanging with him tomorrow. Are you? Is he even work?

Yeah, he's flying in. Oh, nice. To hang? Just lonely to hang. I flew him out, dude. You know what I'm saying? You do you in flyouts right now? I'm like, drink, baby.

Let's come. Friend flyouts? Just only dudes. Yeah. I just find cool dudes. I'm like, dude, you want to come hang? Yeah, yeah. He's in town.

But yeah, he's the best. His whole squad is amazing. All those guys. Like, you can really judge a person based off like the company they carry. Totally. And everyone that hangs with Mr. Beast and the whole. squad. They're just like solid people. Yeah. It's really, really cool. You guys did a great job with him on the show too. Oh, it was so fun. That happened in like 16 hours. We found out that he was coming on.

Dude, I think it was less than that. We found out he was coming on that day. We had another guest book. We were doing two pods that day, one in the morning, one in the afternoon. And we had to call the guest in the afternoon and be like, dude, can you do tomorrow? We have this guy. He's up in like upstate filming a video. They have one like day of downtime. Yeah. He's coming into the city. And we literally got him in two hours flat. Normally we have like a couple days where we do like prep. We like read about the guests. Everyone learns. That was just what we knew in the moment. Hey, let's go. I think that's the

longest interview of him ever. Dude. I think. And I could have gone from the two hours. I love it. I mean, I know you guys are trying to leave right now, but I'm holding you hostage. Like I just like you can just feel that. This is my favorite thing. You can feel that my mind has gone to where we can be in? Yeah. Yeah. So we're just sitting here like arms crossed.

Just like, you can feel that dude? How wild. I'm like one foot out. You can feel this? Yeah. Really? You could tell. I can tell. I'm actually really enjoying this.

I just am getting stressed because of your wife calling and I know that feeling. I don't have a wife. I'm making all this up. This is all. None of this is real. The cameras aren't even all. Yeah. She goes to a different school, bro.

That's just a shot. I'm not a crap bot that hits you up occasionally. Yeah. I have a language model of her, okay? Yeah, she's been dead since 94 and I just listen to her voice every day. That's going to be a crazy future, too. Comedians get really dark. Is that dark? She's not dead.

If I just sensely, that's not true, is that dark? I don't know. I'm just like, the sky's green. Dark. No, it's not. It's not true. That's not dark. That's not dark.

It's green. Look at this guy, dude. Fucking Larry Dave, what's the tail, man? It's just in his bones, dog. That's crazy. I just nervous it on a podcast as long. I'm like, all crazy. Fine, okay.

We'll be done. No, we don't. No, no. No, no. That's it. That's it. You guys vote right now. There's a poll in the corner.

Should we be done. Tell the people where they can find you. I just got so excited that you said we're done. He just got up immediately. Why? Does no one want to do this? I'm more just concerned. I would like this podcast except me.

What's to hang out with me? I actually really enjoy it. Yeah, I enjoy this pot. I just like you feel safe till we leave. Until we get out the door. Yeah. Yeah, we will get out of here. I'm genuinely grateful you guys took the time to chat with me.

This is so cool. Genuinely, I've been a fan of you guys for a long time. Love everything you do. Thank you so much. everyone can find you at Colin and Samir on YouTube. Samir and Colin also, second channel, which is great. Shorts are popping. Everything's popping. Everything's going great, dude.

Yeah. And this has been brought to you by Samsung Galaxy. That's right. Yeah, also that. That's right. I don't know if you want to be associated with this brand and Samsung, but this is brought you by Samsung Galaxy. So thank you guys so much.

This is what Samsung pays us for. Yeah, dude. It's for this. Seriously, thank you so much. I appreciate y'all. Let's get out of here. All right. Peace.

Thanks, man.