Camp Gagnon - Drug Kingpin on Selling Cocaine, Fighting Cops and Making Millions

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

Devin Reilly was arrested on RICO and Kingpin Charges in New Jersey after making millions orchestrating an empire and gambling book. He discusses his up bringing, how he got started in the game, his closest encounters with death, and ultimately the investigation that got him locked up. He reveals how he survived a prison fight club and turned his life around.Thanks to @ianbickCT for making the connection ❤️Thank you to Morgan & Morgan FÜMBluechewFor making this show possibleEdited a...

Did you ever have to fight? Every week. I liked it. They had fight night Fridays with the cops. The cops will fight you. Yeah. It's fight night Fridays and lock up Mondays. So what that means is if a cop want to fight you, body shots and shout.

No face shots. The face shot, you go right to jail. They beat the shouts. In order to stay so fucked up, that the cops would come in from all the other compounds and they bet on the fights. You had a problem with one of these cops. He takes his vest off. You f*** you up or you f*** him up.

If the cop you up and you didn't get over by Monday, they lock you up. And that's what it was. And why were they fighting? Just fucking guerrilla. What makes me dangerous is I've been broke up in prison. You can't scare me. Devin Riley.

You got you. What's up, baby? What's going on? How are you, man? Professional asshole. 100%. Kingpin. X.

Yeah, yeah. Former. Former, former. Got a, I mean, facing 80 years in prison. Yep. 81 years. 80 years with a 40 year minimum. Yeah, that's heavy.

That's heavy. Way too many. Leading, you know, like a giant. I guess you could say a drug ring. Is that... That's what they claimed, yeah. Allegedly. Allegedly.

Allegedly. There was 35 co-defendants. Yeah, yeah. Minimum. An insane picture from inside the courtroom of you just throwing the thumbs up. I'll be all right. Spiky hair. Ready to go.

Backstreet boy shit. Yeah, I'm showing my age. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just, I mean, a wild life and a very, like, interesting story and a very interesting dude. So I'm excited to jump into it. The thing that I'm curious about first is just growing up in Jersey. So you're from Melville. Is that?

Correct. That's where you spent, like, your first 18 years? 15. Okay. My parents got divorced when I was probably, I think, eight or 10, whatever it was. My mother got back with her high school sweetheart who lived in Philadelphia. He would come down to Milville for a couple years. Then we moved to Philly with him, you know, when I was 16,

because I angled it where, a mom, we should move there because I can get my driver's license. 16 in Pennsylvania. It's 17 in Johnson. Jersey. So I got my, you know, I talked mom in the moving there in the Philly, so I get my driver's license. So you knew it even as a kid. Right away. Yeah, like I knew it. I was driving. I was probably 14 and 50 and we lived in this little year. I was driving my mom's Honda back. Just getting ready. So just getting ready. So I was getting ready. So I was getting ready to go. Because that was freedom. Freedom. And, you know, I'm on the house phone. Like it's a cell phone. You know what I mean? That's before all the cell phone. So I went to Philadelphia school for a couple of semesters and came back and moved my father at 17. And what is Melville like at the time when you're there for the you know as a kid it was 25,000 people you know it's just it's a little there's nothing special there it's a it's a factory town there was a bunch of glass factories um that took up the whole city just about that's what you know that's what it was um my father's interning

in the town we owned uh my grandparents owned a ice and fuel oil company in the middle of the town so i worked with my grandfather's and i was like eight what does that mean like ice and so they sold block ice for like the farms so it was all farms around there too so they would sell like crushed ice, like two tons of crushed ice. They put in a machine. A big 300 pound cakes of ice they produce. We put in a big walk-in freezer, bringing it out crushed on a platform.

So before they had all the bagged ice before the, you go set 11 and get the 20-pound bags or 16, whatever they are now. You come, you bring a bucket to the ice plant. You get 25 pounds in a bucket and take off. And like a dude would break it up and throw it in there. There's a crusher with like some wheels and shit that would go around, yeah.

Oh, wow. They had that. In the winter, they had fuel oil. So it kind of made sense that they kept everybody working all the whole time. So he felt, you know, fuel, the winter and then ice in the summer. Interesting. So that's where your grandparents did. Yep. And then they stayed in that area. And then your dad became an attorney in that area. Yes. And then what did your mom work? My mother, she, she wanted to go to school all the time. When they got divorced, we lived in a two-bedroom.

My sister and I had better, and she slept on a couch. At that time, she was working at the Red Cross. Okay. Making a $7 an hour. I don't know. Why did she do that? Did she like helping people? I don't, I think she was just fucked up at the time, honestly, from my father. Like, he tortured her. Yeah. He was. motherfucker. Really? Can I think cuss, right? You're required to cuss.

Okay, that's all that good. Yeah. So she did what she could. But she was probably going through a depression, you know, everything else. I was the one, I was out doing more than she was. I had two paper routes. You know, I was working with my grandfather. I bought the VCR.

I bought the first VCR for the house, and that's all what I am. Yeah. So she, you know, she's sleeping on the couch, crying herself sleep sometimes. I'm bringing VCR to the house. So before your parents split, who all was living in the house? It was my sister, my father, my mother, just four of us. I got one sister. She's four years younger.

She's younger than you. Okay. So do you feel like a protective role for her when you're a kid? No, you know, we were at that, it's just that weird age where I couldn't stand her because everything I did she wanted to do. Of course. She'd have her girlfriends come over and they'd go in my room and steal my shit. So it was just a battle.

You know, we'd go to the restaurant and she'd order, she'd wait for me to order it and she'd order the same thing. Your parents probably loved her, like way more. She was the girl. I'm the asshole. You know what I've always been. So, you know, she's a good girl. I kind of fucked her up when she was going.

She went to IUP, and she wanted to be in the FBI. But you can't be the FBI when your brother's a drug dealer. So they kind of, like, pushed her away from that. No way. And then she got into, she was a probation officer instead of parole or probation officer. Oh, that's crazy. So I kind of owe her a little bit, maybe. But I'll take care of her when she's all said and done, yeah.

Oh, that's crazy. And so your dad, I mean, you said it was not like the best dude growing up. Now, my dad's a scumbag. I mean, listen, he still, I tell him this all the time. You know, now he's older now. But, and I don't blame my father for anything because we do, we make her own decisions at the end of the day. But, you know, my dad's been married four or five times, you know, and every wife got younger than the last. Was your mom the first wife?

Yes, my mother was his first wife. Interesting. And so I didn't see a lot of my father growing up. You know, I saw him. He was more my friend than my father, if that makes sense. You know, we go a year without talking sometimes. Right. You know, they'd fight over dumb shit.

You know, the child support. You know, I can remember those stupid fights. I don't think it affected me at all, but it's just, you know, like, my dad was my friend. So I call him when I need, hey, dad, listen, this happened, or I got in a fight or this or that. Or I was skateboarding on a sidewalk and I got a ticket. You know, back then you get tickets, and now you can ride four-wheelers down the middle of the street doing wheelies, and they don't even pull you over. So, you know, times have changed. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.

So your dad is, and he's an attorney. What kind of law? So he practiced general law. Okay. And so he was just the typical attorney, you know, very dressed well. He always, you know, took care of himself. That's the thing. So he's always dressed in the good suits.

the Italian shoes. Yeah, yeah. You know, he was always fly. He's always, he was put together. So he had all the women going crazy over him. He'd go on the courtroom. He'd smile. They fucking dropped their panties.

Like, that's the deal. You know, my mother's like to straight up. She'll beat you kind of still. You know, the little Italian lady. And, you know, my dad's like banging all these dirty whores. Like, I'd go to his office. I wouldn't sit on his leather couch because I didn't know how much DNA was on her. No way.

Even when I was a kid. I was like, I'm not sitting on that couch. She was a crime scene. Oh, yeah. I'm not touching that. I'm not touching that. could get something. Oh, that's crazy.

Did he drink? So he was a functioning alcoholic, I would say. So he, typical thing, 4.30, he'd walk to the bar. 7 o'clock, he'd be home, go to sleep. He never drank during the day, didn't take pain pills, nothing. During the day, he was totally sober. But that 4 to 7, he's drinking stingers and, you know, like heavy shit. And then do you go home?

He'd have a couple thousand-dollar bar bill back in the day. But he's, you know, he's a big shot of attorney. He's buying, I can buy you drink, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, wake up the next day, six o'clock, star's day. Not drinking. You know, so he functioned very well at it. So now, though, what happened is he has rheumato arthritis. He stopped drinking three years ago.

That's good. Went right down. Now it's terrible. We came. Walk around now. It's like, we found him one day in a puddle of blood. No. The medicine stopped working.

So the doctor said, you got to stop drinking. So now has diabetes because all the sugar and the alcohol. So now he was craving milkshakes all the time and things like that. Oh, so he supplanted the, like, he supplanted the. alcohol with sugar and then that causes even more health problems. Right. So now I got a hospital bed in the middle of his house and he won't go to assist living.

And he's a pain. He's like, he's telling every day. Listen, I'm going to shoot you. Like, if you don't want to go, I'm just going to take care of him for you because I would never want to live

like that. So I don't know if when we're younger, we see that and say, I don't want to live like that. And then when you get to there, you're automatically, you know, survival kicks in and like, I don't want to die anymore.

Right. But that's me. I'm getting to my plane. I'm fucking going into a mountain. because I'm not living like that. Like there's no quality of life left, you know? Right, of course. So that's how it is.

Interesting. So Lil Dev is seeing his dad, like, drinking, banging chicks. Do you remember the moment where you're like, oh, I don't have normal parents? Like, I don't have a normal upbringing. Was there ever a trauma? No, you know, because my grandfather was always there for me. So he, that's cool. My grandfather always had me, he picked him from school every day.

Oh, that's cool. You know, he was my best friend. I would go, I'd go to his house every day after school. And he was a good dude. He was the best dude. You can't, he's one dude you can't, you can't replace. He died early. He died in 60-something years old.

Smoked every day. Had a cough one day. Three months later, he's dead. He died on my birthday. My 17th birthday. That's awful. January 1st. January 1st.

Damn. He said, he told me happy birthday and died three seconds later. That is brutal, bro. But, I mean, it's terrible. Terrible. I mean, you know, because, but my stepfather, my mother's husband, who she divorced twice. She divorced once and married twice. I'm sorry.

Okay. So they were high school. Let me tell you that. She ran it back. So she was high school sweets arts with this guy. Then my father came in. being the whore my dad is, took my mother. My mother married my father at that time.

Left Rick, Rick is my stepfather. And probably a good guy. Best dude in the world, right? I mean, best dude in the world. Love him to death. And she gets divorced my father. Rick is still, he visited my grandparents all the time still. And so he got divorced.

And when he got divorced, he sent my mother flowers for like every year they're apart. Like, he's just a good dude. And my mother then went through menopause in Philly. Mm-hmm. And I was having my first kid. She took off to Arizona. He gave her everything.

He drove her, and I drove a U-Haul, to Arizona, from Philly, Arizona. Damn. Because she went out there for four years, got her shit back together, came back, and remarried him. Wow. And they're still together. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's cool. But he's my man.

See, nice guys finish first sometimes. You know what I mean? Shout out to Rick. Yeah. No, listen, Rick's awesome. Dude, he worked for me for a while, a couple years. And he retired. And when he retired, they went through some hard times.

Not, you know, but he had, he had a, he had. an Austin Haley car. He was old, like, you know, they had like through college and it was always sitting in the garage. They needed some money. They sold it. It was probably, I was just, I mean, it was a year home from prison, so I wasn't even there yet.

You know what I was just getting my shit back together. And three or four years ago, my oldest son and I bought him a cobra, a factory cobra, a factory fiber of cobra, like the rep, you know, the K car's? It's like 80 grand, but that's what I gave him for retirement. Because he didn't have that car at him. Like he got rid of, and he always,

that's all, so he takes the car out, no top. He loves it. He loves it. And those reps, if you get a nice one, they run great. Oh, yeah. It takes a racetrack. It's fast. Put it on like a Volkswagen chassis or something like that.

Yeah, it's a, well, it's got a 350 in there. I mean, it thinks smokes. No, they move. And the sound system is great. Like, they fix all the problems with these old cars. Everything. Yeah, yeah. It's awesome.

And, you know, everybody looks at it. And he just, you know, it's loud and it's fast and he just takes it. So, yeah. And then the registration says, like, Kia. Old, old, old, yeah. So he, but he, like, he, when I was in prison, he, he did. I didn't miss a weekend. I was in Northern State,

and it was a two and a half hour ride in the summer. It was probably five hours to get home. Right. Never missed the weekend. And then your biological dad. Saw him probably five times

while I was in prison. That's interesting, man. That's interesting. I'm curious, like, how you deal with this as like a young kid. Like your dad kind of being an asshole. It didn't, you know, that, and I'm an asshole now.

But it didn't bother me too much, I don't think. Like, you know, it bothered my sister a lot. She's like, do you remember what dad? I don't remember that shit because I think I just didn't even

pay enough attention to it, You know. Was your dad angry? Yes, to an extent. So when I was young and, you know, 9, 10, 11, he would have his girlfriend there and they'd be down. They'd doing crystal meth in the basement all weekend, playing poker with all the other attorneys in town. They're doing meth? Yeah, this is back in the day when they, you know, you take the glass.

They were doing crystal. They stay up all weekend in the basement playing poker, all the attorneys in town, all weekend. Friday, start Sunday. He'd come upstairs laying front on TV, sleep until Monday morning. and then go to work. So, you know, like, but he was real cranky sometimes, you know, and that. Yeah, because he was on a bender. Oh, yeah, every weekend.

But that's what they did. You know, it's just one of those things. Like, that's what they did. That was normal to know they're not coming upstairs for all weekend. Wow. Just doing straight up meth. Meth. That's it.

And if he got pissed to you, like, would you ever get spanked and shit? Oh, yeah. Well, I fought him. I fought him a couple times. As a kid? Yeah. I fought, I was probably 15, and I took a bat to him. What?

Yeah. So he, um, he was. we called him bear because he would just like flip fly off the handle you know this you know say dinner or something you know you like fly off the handle and my my uncle was at the house and he i was saying something but i was like not even paying attention to my dad you know he said something and he went to grab me like at the table so i took off up steps and he came after me so i grabbed my bat i hit the motherfucker and the legs like i hit the motherfucker in the bat he put me through the sheetrock whoa he said you got to do better next time he's a he's a big dude he's like he's 5-10

I mean, big then when I was, you know, I was a kid. So now I'm just squashing like a bug. But then, you know, it's just like, okay, I got you. You know, so we had some real battles. And you were afraid of him when you were young, young? Yeah, he was probably doing anything I was afraid of. Yeah. But I knew that my grandfather would have me.

So I knew I could, oh, he, listen, even though my grandfather's little dude, I knew if he had to, he shoot him. Was he, was your grandfather ever, like, disappointed or frustrating your dad? Because that's his kid, right? No, no, that's my mother's father. So he actually adopted my mother. So my real grandfather was a newscaster for ABC, New York. Whoa. And my mother's mother, divorced Scott.

His name was Scott Vincent, divorced him and married John Whitaker, which was my grandfather. And John, Jack, I call him Jack. He adopted my mother as a kid. So he's my real grandfather. I mean, it might not have been blood, but he was, you know, I didn't like my grandmother too much. My grandfather's everything because my grandmother's from the old school where her son, my uncle, who I didn't get along with too well, because I watched him do bad shit to the company and steal,

you know, like, that they didn't want to pay attention to as your kid. Yeah. She had, my grandfather, I would speak every night. He'd pick him in her school. My grandmother was jealous at that relationship. Mm. You know what I mean? Of the relationship, my grandson, which you should never do.

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. But as from the old school where, you know, he didn't, his own son, I was favored more than his own son. Yeah, and I could see how that would breed some animosity. So at 16, I had to beat up my uncle. at the ice factory on the platform. We were just arguing about ever since I was, I don't know, 10 or 11 years old,

I worked at ice plant, and I had ideas to make it better. I mean, I had a business mind that young. So we were, I remember we were doing, I wanted to get a volumetric bagger. They just had come out.

So once you hit a button and puts eight pounds of bag and put it through a plastic bag and we sell it. Right. Before you would have to measure it out. Right. Before you put it. You'd crush it in the machine.

You put it on a scale, weigh it. They had this whole thing put together. Well, I guess my uncle had tried to do things like before my grandpa was like, no, but he listened to me. He had a kid. So my grandpa, my uncle had a problem, so I just had to beat him up on the platform. And I didn't toss him for you. I still really don't talk to him that much.

Wow. That's crazy. Yeah. So it's just, you know. And so when you're a little kid, are you like, like, you're not angry at your dad? You just kind of like accept for who he is kind of thing? I know what it is. So I, and that might be a problem with taking shit like, I don't take things to heart now.

I don't really get bothered And if I don't bother for 10 minutes You know you can cuss me Don't touch me But you can cuss me You call me all the things you want And in 10 minutes I'm over it Like I can go to sleep tomorrow

Like some people get ruined for weeks Yeah yeah I don't get fucked Is part of the reason you don't drink you think Because he was a functional alcoholic I think I don't drink I don't like being out of control myself Yeah

You know because I would go to the bar When I'm 21 and 22 And you get these dudes that are 5 foot 6 They want to fight the biggest dude in the bar Yeah Yeah Well, I make portages and sober. You understand?

I can say that now, but I don't even like alcohol. Right. It's just not, I don't, I want to be in control of me. Yeah. I don't want to control anybody else, but I don't control me. Yeah. I want to know if I'm missing the deal, making a deal, that kind of thing. That makes sense.

And so where you're growing up in Melville, after your parents split, all of a sudden, you move with your mom to a worse situation. Oh, we were living in the shells. Shells, because she didn't have your money. She's making, my dad wasn't paying. When you were born to, like, 10 years old, things were okay. You lived in, like, a decent neighborhood. Yeah, decent, nice neighborhood.

Like this, when I was in school, like, she's like, oh my God, you have this great house. Well, you look at it now, it's a piece of shit. But back then, it was a regular summer. It was a nice, yeah, it was a nice house. You know, it was back in that good neighborhood, you know. But then from like 10 to 18. 10 to 50, so from about 9 to 15, when they got separated,

we were in like one and two bedrooms. And my dad didn't pay much child support. Right. You know, it was just that kind of. So it was you and your sister and your mom. And she was on the couch and my sister, I just had a room. And that, was that the start of like the financial insecurity? I think I always hustled though

So I would go before that Oh yeah I mean I was in Well the school went up to six years I was probably in third or fourth grade And I was selling noun ladders And there was a there was a It was called Brawaters

It was a little gas station sold like candy I would buy the box and break down into the shower patch Getting into colors and sell them in the school Yeah So I was selling Polaroid pictures So when I go to visitation with my dad I'd make him stop a Wawa And he'd buy me a pack of Polaroid film

Yeah of course I take 10 pictures I charge two at one or two dollars a picture I'd make my dad buy it for him if you'd make them feel bad. I make $10, $12 to school. And so what? You would take pictures of people? Oh, people, you know, just before all this shit was out, hey, everybody wanted to pick.

They're a picture taking and buy the picture. That's actually a cool hustle. So I sold pies in school. I would go get day old pie. I'd buy the whole pie for a dollar and sell a dollar slice. Sell it every day. Interesting. So I always had that.

The picture else was cool. I've heard people like go to school and sell candy and stuff. But like the picture. Picture was great. Where did you get that idea? You just thought of it? Or did you see someone do something like that? I think I saw somebody.

But my mother's stepmother, who was, you know, she got me to pull a camera. But my mom didn't have money even to buy it. Like, the film was like eight bucks or ten bucks back then. You know what I mean? She didn't have money even buy it. So I've made my dad deal. But I think I might take one in school one day and be like, hey, I want a picture. I don't, okay, listen, we can make money on this.

Yeah. Yeah. Did I even ever judge you for coming to school with a hustle? I don't think so. No. Nah. Because I kind of, nah, nobody. Because there was nobody there that could really do that.

You know, you had a couple of like the rich kids. kids that you thought were rich back then. Yeah. I kind of like laugh out. I'm like, I thought your mom had money. That bitch ain't got shit. You know what I mean? So it was that kind of thing. But I didn't really get judged.

It wasn't like that. Listen, he always knows how much money. We had a bowling league. All my four guys on my team would give me all the money. And so we all had more together. We'd get better shit when it was all together. So we had four guys on the team. You know, I was in fifth, sixth grade.

You know, like the bowling club or whatever it was. They'd all give their eight bucks or ten bucks, whatever it cost. We'd get more food, you know, as we all put it together because they understand. understood, we can buy more worth 30 bucks than we can't with eight bucks. Yeah. Give a little group discount, work out a thing.

That's what I'm saying? We can buy pizza, a whole pizza now. We can buy two slices and we get a whole pie. Yeah. Oh, interesting. So it's always been, that's always worked in my head like dollars and cents. Did you have to fight a lot as a kid? No, I wanted in many fights in like grade school.

In high school, there was a battle going on with another town over, and we were on one side of the other, so we fought every weekend. Nothing terrible. I got arrested for a few. times were like riot and site of riot and shit like that. We went to a project being like nine guys going after people and of course

I get arrested because I'm the easiest one to rest because everybody knows my father in a local town so they picked me up in high school like my dad would have to come get me things like that. Wait, why were you going over there to fight? Because it was just fighting like one it was woodbine and I was woodbine they were fighting against like Port Naur so it's all the like surrounding

sending districts. And they'll meet in this parking lot. Yeah let's go here and see where it's going to be. Or we drive around looking for them Like, we four or five of a pack them in a car, I find what these dudes just... And it was on. Back then it was just fisticuffs. Now they're shooting.

Right, which is crazy. Yeah, they're stupid. But it's a regular old-fashioned fist fight. Yeah. They don't do it. They don't do it. In prison, I fall every week, every Friday. Right.

They fight night Fridays with the cops. The cops will fight you. What? Yeah. Okay, we'll get to that. Don't forget that. We're going to bring that up. Yeah, yeah.

But so growing up, you would find fights, but you were not, like, getting bullied or nothing. No, no, no. Did you play sports? when you were a young kid? I'd play baseball. Okay. I mean, I play, I didn't play sports

because I didn't like getting yelled at. So I would go play football every year and the first time you yelled at me they'd fuck you, I'm out. Talk to me and I'll do whatever you want. But I have this thing about getting yelled at. You know, like, there's, you know, people that I 100% agree

like if you yell some people will motivate them. To me, it shuts me down. I'm not your son. Yeah. Don't grab my fucking face mask and yell at me, tell you, just say, hey, listen, you missed that block. Yeah.

Next time, get it. I got you, coach. But when you grab my face mask. can act, get off me before I hit you. You know, I mean like, it triggers me the other way. That makes sense. So I'm not like, to this day, if we talk, if it's a problem, but as soon as you start getting aggressive, I shut it down and now I'm going to battle.

No, I get that. And I'm built for conflict. I don't want it. So I don't ever want a problem, but if there's a problem, I don't have a problem. Yeah. That makes sense. So I'm okay with conflict. I'm not I don't run from it. I go right to it. Was your dad a yeller? Like, was he yelling? No, he's an attorney. So he's always, he never lost. He was, you know, that kind of So no matter what you said to dad, he was never wrong. Even if he was wrong.

He was still not wrong. And when he thought he was wrong, he was wrong because he thought he was wrong. So it was that kind of thing, you know. And it makes you feel like shit as a kid. Yeah, you can't do anything. You feel so small. Like, okay, so this guy, if he's doing fucking meth in the basement, he'll beat the shit out of me. And if he's not doing meth, he'll break my brain because he's way better at arguing.

And I'm going to lose every argument. Yep. Yeah, that would make you feel like shit as a kid. Yeah. But it didn't bother me. Like, you know, the good times, we, we search. fish off the Long Beach Island Beach. You know, we drive the truck back and forth.

So, you know, we had good times with it, too. After when he, his second wife is when he kind of, like, cleaned up and was like trying to be a dad-ish, if you want to call it that. That's good. Yeah, but at that time, I fucking need it. Yeah, not for you. But it's good for him and his other kids. And he cleaned up, you know, he got, you know, he was then, you know, he got done to party in, but you still drinking every day. Did he ever apologize to you?

I don't think so. Would you want that? I don't care. Doesn't bother me. I mean, it really doesn't. Would it feel nice if he was like, hey, Dev, I was kind of a dick hit. No, because then I would think that you're a pussy. Oh, really?

Yeah, like I'm over it. Yeah. You would think he's a pussy for apologizing? 100%. Stick to your guns, man. Stick to your guns. But what if he fucked up? What if he was like, yeah.

He knows he fucked up. I know he fucked up. But if he's like, yo, I shouldn't be doing meth. Like, yo, my bad. He would never say it. I wouldn't look for it. You know what I mean? Right, right.

Because we go today, he'd say, I wasn't doing it. We did a little cocaine or something. You know, like, because he's, you know, so. Because he's never wrong. He's never wrong. Perf example, my father, I want to put him in assisted living. Okay, my sister's once, we're both on the same page. My mother as well.

Well, when he goes, he's lonely, so he's kind of going through depression now because he's got no, you know, he's stuck in the hospital, a better and chair. He can barely walk. He went from 190, you know, in good shape to 85 pounds. Damn. And, but when they interview him, he's sharp as a fucking tech because he knows what to say. So I have no power to put him in a home. because this motherfucker

knows exactly what to say. He gets in the rehab, the encompass and things for physical therapy. They fucking love him. Then he comes home and like fucking falling on the floor calling now one because he's bored. Right. So he knows he's still too smart. He knows the game.

He's almost too smart for his own good. For everybody's good. Yeah. And I know that feeling. Like I know, listen, all the psychological shit I went through in prison and other things, I know what they're saying. I know what's right and wrong.

Right. Yeah, yeah. There's part of that in you, kind of, especially back in the day. Back in the day. Yeah. I mean, I know what to say and not to say. Right. Even if you're not going to do it. Right. But I know what you want me to say. Right. That's why I don't believe in therapy and shit.

Because I don't think people tell the truth. So they just want somebody to tell you, you know, we're sitting here and you like, oh, well, you know, my life is sucks, this and that. You know, I'm like, well, fucking kill yourself then. I don't know what to tell you. You know, and I don't mean that, like, in a bad way, but I'm just like, dude, listen, figure it out. Right. Have you gone to it? My mother took me when I was, so the perfect, my mother would take me.

My mother, she got her degree in psychology. Oh, really? Yes. She never daily with it. Like a PhD master's? Yeah, PhD. She's a PhD in psychology? But she never opened, she never hung up a shingle or anything.

Okay, but she worked, she, when she moved to Philly, she went to mental health, which is even worse. But I've never met a therapist. I couldn't make better because they're listening to problems all fucking day. Like, you think about it. Like, they're fucked up woman weird. I need a couple of years. That shit is heavy, yeah. Yeah, like that takes a lot out of it.

But, so my mother was in it. So, you know, it's one of those things where my mom. when they got divorced, she's like, oh, we're going to go talk to something. By the time the conversation is over, I'm running the show at 14, 13, 14 years old. Because you know what to say. And I got your attention now. Yeah. So I know what, you know, so it goes from not what do you feel until like, oh, we're talking about baseball, we're talking about this or that. Right. I take over the conversation. Right. So therapy, to me, never kind of worked. You know what I mean? Because you knew what to say, even if you didn't apply it.

Correct. And so the therapist would be like, hey, your kid's great. Yeah, there's nothing I can do. There's done. We're in here talking about baseball the whole time. that kind of thing. Some people need it. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. But I think it's mental. Yeah, like how strong you are mentally at the end of the day.

Interesting. And so you said you were like kind of angry as a kid growing up. Angry is probably isn't the right word, but I was maybe on edge. Not even on edge. I just wanted to get it. I know what I wanted.

Like I didn't want to live like my mother. I knew that. That was the biggest thing. That was the biggest thing. So I didn't want to be, I don't want to cry myself to sleep ever, you know, at night because my ex hates me or what.

I don't give you know, that kind of thing. I never want to worry about when we're going to eat. I don't want... So if I can handle all that now, life's good. Did you feel bad for your mom? I don't think I knew well enough to know bad for her. Like I do now because I see it.

Right. But I also think my mother could have done more. What do you mean? So, you know, some people, I work every day. I work seven days a week. I work till it's done. Not a lot of people have that. Right. If I'm... I starve to get what I want. Listen, I'll eat ramen for a month.

if I have to, because I need to see. Let's get it. People don't think like that. So could my mom had a better job? Absolutely. But not that she played victim, but she was so bothered by my dad never paying child support and things like that.

Dude, I don't think she ever came up to her full ability of what she could have done. She got caught up in what happened instead of focusing on what could happen next. Right, of how to make it better. Interesting. And, you know, my grandfather was tough on my mom. So he would give me anything I needed,

but, you know, he owned an oil coming. He still made to pay for oil. Oh, really? It's just, hey, I mean, and, you know, you see it like. No handouts type. No handout. Yeah, like nothing's free. Interesting.

And so I think that, you know, it brings out today. Like, I'm tough on my kids for the same reason. Like, nothing's free. I made his money, you didn't. Right. Yeah. I got it, you don't. It's like the Shaq thing.

Have you seen Shaq talking about that? I did. And so, and actually, you know, so going on that, I put a trust together. So I have a trust that all my properties and things are in. And the trust is set up so that if I die today, they don't get shit. Mm-hmm. what the if they they get they get something so like my oldest son gets a hundred grand a year right okay it's nothing anymore but i mean not i mean you can live on that yeah but you know you're gonna be

okay a couple properties each one gets you know but if they need money you know at the trust price worth worth good amount of money you know search of all the properties and life insurance things like that but if they want money they got to go to the trust to Wilmington trust with a business plan and you don't get fucking shit if they don't like the business plan so if you need money it's there for you. But if you don't, that's just going to go and get things like that.

I like that approach. Because I don't want them thinking, if I die tomorrow and they leave them 10, 12 million. Yeah, that's... Guess what? In three years, I bust some as I come home

for this shit. Yeah. My middle son, maniac, he'll buy three Lamborghinis and all the horrors and be in Vegas and be broke.

Yeah. I didn't work this hard to just give this shit away. Yeah. You know? So that's the kind of... That's actually a cool structure. I don't mind that.

Like, okay, there's a base level that you'll get. Yeah. Which 100 grand years, like great. Forever, because, listen, just the interest pays that. Don't get me wrong. That's amazing. Like, most people, I think the average is like $56K in America.

Yeah, but. Yeah, and 100 is because he, listen, he's a great kid. He's a good kid. But he can move to Omaha, buy a house, have kids, and have an amazing life. Right. I'll take that tomorrow. You know what I'm saying? That's great.

And then coming in with a business plan, I'm like, yeah, that's awesome. Because why waste it? Yeah, that's cool. If you, you know, you're 25, 26 years old and you get three, four million, five million. You're going to make mistakes. Big mistakes. Yeah. What would you do if you got $3 million at $25?

I'd been dead. I'd been dead. Yeah. That's smart, actually. So then you get into high school, you're playing baseball a little bit. You're not really talking to your biological dad that much. Here and there. That's it.

Whatever. Yeah. I mean, like, he'd pick us up for like visitation on the weekends and he made me cut his grass. Yeah, yeah. You know, shit like that. And then what kind of jobs are you doing into high school? I was still working with an ice plant. I was doing that.

You know, the ice plant I worked for gravel every day. Until I was, until I was, until he died. You know, my 16, I was 16 that winter, January of, you know, turning, the day I turned 17 is when he died. So I worked there at my 16, you know, year. And then 17 was my junior year in school, my grandmother put me in the back. She had a Lincoln town car. Yeah, yeah, the boat. Yeah, so she had a Lincoln town car.

And I was in the back, I remember, like yesterday, I was in the backseat of her car. And I said, listen, I need $15 an hour. I've been here forever. Even that back then it was, in 1990, I think it was. I need $15 now. You know, McDonald's is paying $12. It might have been $12. I don't know what it was.

And she was old. And she drives by, we had a vending machine that would sell the eight-pound bag of ice. She put a dollar in it, you know, pops a thing out. And she drives by and she said, you see that sign? I said, yeah. She said, what's it said? It said, it said, it was 100 years. It was the 100-year anniversary.

So, we can do it without you. My grandmother told me this. Wow. Never worked again. Guess what? Two years later, they shut down. Oh. Yeah.

Three years later she died. Why to shut down? Just because they passed away. Terrible management. My grandfather had died. they thought they could do it, her and my uncle and, you know, her, my other, my, my grandfather's brother who's in the company still. Your grandfather's holding it together. Yeah.

Wow. And just, I could have held together. If Rick and I went in there, I probably wouldn't know how to ever sold drugs if we took over that company. But then I wouldn't be where I am today either. Sure. I'd have been happy with the 100 grand. Which, who knows, who knows what that is? Right.

But I'm just saying, you know, it would have been a different path. But a different, 100%. Yeah. So, like, through middle school, high school, you're a pretty good kid. Grades are pretty good. grades are average You're smart enough to kind of get by in school

That's really trying Right And then focusing most of your time On like working And then probably girls Girls came in Probably my 11th grade year Yeah

I didn't want I had a little girls per You had a little girls per Yeah Back then everybody was like Now it's time So that's when the girls came in I got okay grades

I was always I always got detention every day For some dumb shit Like you know I was always late probably my first class Or something You know just dumb shit

But I never I never I never skipped one day of school. I never got suspended. Never doing drugs. Never did. I didn't do, I didn't do, I never did drugs until I came home from prison and got, and my parole officer said, you can't get a medical marijuana card. I said, no, watch.

And that's the only reason I did it. And then I just take out of bals at night and I don't do it during the day. But so that's how, that's the only, I never did drugs until I sold thousands of keys of Coke. Yeah. And I never saw heroin until I was in prison. Because it wasn't, in my area, that wasn't a big thing. even in Philadelphia wasn't basically. Right, it's not the biz.

Nah. So I never saw until prison. So like through high school, middle school, everything's pretty good. It's good, yeah. A strange relationship with your parents, not like the easiest childhood, but like doing good at school, playing baseball, hang with your boys. Yep, that's it. Life is regular.

Getting some fights here and there. Yeah, I mean, you know, just in neighborhood, you know, because somebody was talking shit and we just fight. And then your grandfather, who I guess at this point would be a mentor, a father figure. The one I never one let down. He's the reason I stayed out of trouble. That's the one. Yep. He passes away.

17. How do you feel in that moment? That's like... You know, I never cried. I'm just not a crier. But I was definitely upset. Yeah. But it changed my whole life.

The next day, I'm buying drugs. Yeah. Can you explain like that 48 hours? Like, you find out he passes away. So when I was 15, they made me a deal. They'll give me $5,000 for a car if I don't do drugs. Okay, well, I never did drugs. Pretty easy.

No problem. So I wanted I rock. I mean a fucking Irocks. No. The Iroxies, the Camaro's, the Trans Am or whatever they were. Oh, yeah. So I want those old, like the, you know, like... You're a real Jersey motherfucker.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanted that car. My mom or grandmother wouldn't let me buy it because it was too fast. Yeah, of course. All right. So I got like an Audi 5,000. Okay.

Yeah, equal. Whatever. But that's all we had because my mom had money, so it was like $5,200, you know, whatever. But so that kept me kind of straight. So the day he died, I, now I didn't have anybody, didn't have anybody, didn't who I let down because he was the man I was you know he was my man he was my mentor all the structure evaporates go yeah and so I didn't want to be my mom right and I watched this stupid ass video I see new jack hustler when he's at the pool with all the drug money and shit yeah and that's what

that's what turned it on yeah people say I was like that is the fucking music video I can't find that look for I can't find it but that's what started me selling drugs where you see it like on MTV yeah it was on MTV that's when MTV was like yeah yeah so you see this video you're like that's awesome I want to do that which of Of course. Like any dude that sees any rap video, you're like, yeah, that's the coolest shit ever. Ever, yeah. But you were at a point where you're like, I got no one to let down.

I got no one that's like fighting for me. I'm on my own. And I got the connections in Philadelphia because that's where I'm coming. I'm coming my mom's there now. And you got a little bit of bread because you're working at. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, a few thousand, but not, you know, but I have, for that time. At 17.

It's a ton. It's a ton. It's a ton. A lot of money. You can get going. And so he passes away. Do you feel like you, like, suppressed any of the emotions from that? Like in full honesty and hindsight, you know what I mean?

I probably did. Yeah. I just don't know, I don't know that emotion. Right. Like, you know, and that's like my disconnect. You can't know what you're not feeling. Correct. And I just don't know.

Like, I was, it probably was made, I have such an easy disconnect. Like, I can never talk to you again tomorrow. I'll be fine. Right. And I think that's kind of like, I think me, with him, the hurt, I probably, the pain I felt from him passing was something that I had to put away. Right. And I think it just, it gave a pathway for the rest of my life.

almost to nothing bothers me now. Right. You've dealt with people, quote unquote, like dying in the past, whether it's literally or metaphorically or figuratively, someone cutting you off, someone being like, hey, we're done. Like it's them effectively dying.

So you've been through this grief before. Yes. And so when it happens to you for real, you're like, all right? Tomorrow's another day. It's sad, but I'm gonna push it down and I'm gonna keep it moving. Keep it moving.

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. That's, I get it from your perspective, like the shit you've been through, dealing with that, like, all right, I'm just going to keep on going. What are you going to do? Listen, I didn't have anybody run to.

Right. I run to my, if I got a problem, even to this day, I run to myself. I don't have a guy, you know, like, hey, save me, dad. I'm broke. Save me. Nobody's going to save me because nobody can, if that makes sense. You know, like, if I need a place to live, of course, I can live my mom's house. Yeah.

I would never do it, though. I'd rather sleep on a street and move back, go backwards. Right. Because once you go backwards, then you get comfortable, you don't move forward. Right. Yeah, I think, like, if you had a more traditional upbringing, let's say you had two parents that were like supportive. You love your grandfather, of course, like anyone does.

And then he passes away. You might have felt the more regular stages of grief. Absolutely. You would have gone to your dad. You would have grieved with their family. But he had no emotion either. Right. My father had no emotions either.

Right. So, yeah, how are you going to know to feel anything? And when you watch your mom upset all the time over that shit, you kind of, you don't want to that. You know, the worst thing ever is to watch your mom cry to this day. Yeah. So it's, you know, you just get into a mindset where, like, you can't be affected.

You get so used to it, you start to disassociate. 100%. I think that's probably the best word for it. Like, I've, not to that extent, but I've felt that in times where, like, bad things happen, and I'll just disassociate. I'll just kind of be like, all right. Because it's easier to not feel any emotion than to deal with the grief that's going on. 100%.

And you make bad decisions on emotions. Oh, yeah, of course. If you're angry, if you're sad, you start drinking, whatever the fuck. Like, yeah, there's a ton of terrible things that can happen if you're not able to control the emotion. So you might as well just not have that. the emotion, disassociate from it, and then just keep on pushing through. Keep pushing through. And then people will be like, are you okay?

And you're like, I feel like, like, you don't even feel like you're pushing it down. I know, because it's every day. It's the same thing. You know, when I went to prison, I didn't, I was not upset one second, which sounds messed up. But this is, you've been dealing with getting cut off. I got this, right? I got it.

And I can handle it. Yeah, yeah. And in my mindset is there's nothing I can't handle. Right. To this day. Right. Which is a positive attribute and potentially a negative attribute. be terrible because I'm not scared.

You know, like, you know, there's things that don't, because I don't get bothered, yeah, makes me kind of scary and because I could make a bad move. Yeah, of course. You know, listen, I can cut my kid off. I haven't talked to only five, six years over something, you know, but I'm okay with that. You know, because if you're not loyal to me and I don't mean, like, do what I say, but if you take everybody over me and then you come to me when you need me or something, I don't need you.

Like, you're not doing anything for me. Right. So even in your blood, I have people who aren't blood that are way more loyal to me to aim my family. Right. You know, Rick would die from me tomorrow. My mother would too. I'm not saying, but, you know, that's a mother-in-law. But, like, Rick, he's not my blood.

He's got his own kids. Yeah, he's got his own kids. He would step in front of a car for me right to second and no questions asked. And I know that. Yeah. That's the kind of loyalty I want because that's what I give you. Right. And if your blood is already betraying you early on.

My daughter would call my girlfriend and say, oh, you know, dad's fucking this girl or devil's fucking that girl. because her mother hated me so much. Right. So now you're looking at, okay, I got to take care of myself, I got to protect myself, and I'm going to protect the people that look out for me, et cetera. But I can't worry about blood or not blood because my blood's already fucked me over.

Correct. Again, I'm not saying it's necessarily right or wrong. That's just what it is. That's what it is. That's the way I feel is that, you know, listen, if you don't do anything to me, I don't need to do anything for you. I'm not your ATM.

Listen, if you're dying, and I had to give you my kidney, I wouldn't. I'm not saying I wouldn't. but like every day go on with your life I'll go on mine you know and that sounds cold

but it's just you know I think people that torture themselves over these relationships to have with their own family like oh it's your it's your blood it's your uncle I don't care yeah for you is different

you came up in a situation where it's about you I gotta get mine yeah because the people that are supposed to take care of me are doing meth in the basement right yeah

and my mother just doesn't have you know she doesn't have the the means to do it yeah you know so I get the perspective again I don't know if it's right or wrong or healthy, unhealthy.

It just is. Definitely it's probably wrong and unhealthy, but fuck it, I've made it this long. Again, I'm not here to judge. I'm just saying it is what it is. So I understand that, actually. That makes a lot of sense.

I think it actually adds perspective to who you are as a person and kind of like what will transpire, you know, like in your life up into this point. You know what I mean? Oh, great. So I think it actually kind of helps package that idea. So your grandfather passes away.

You maybe could be feeling grief, but you don't. It just is disassociate. I was at the, I was at the, I was at his funeral, which it sounds fucking terrible. But I'm like laughing with the guys. And he was a very well-known guy in town, so it's probably a couple thousand people on through. I was like, yo, we should charge for this shit. Like, that's what I'm thinking in my head.

Like, I'm talking to the people that own the funeral home. Look, if we take five hours ahead, we can make some money here. Yeah. Like, that's, but that's my mind. So I don't know if my mind just, that's a protection thing for me. It's the same thing with like laughter and comedy. Like, I do that with jokes. Right.

something goes bad, I laugh at it. Yeah. And something is uncomfortable. I laugh. And I think a lot of people do that. Agreed. Yeah. Someone trips or like something awkward happens and you just laugh. Instead of, you know, addressing it or, like that is my reflex. And your reflex might be the business. My reason is get the fuck up. You're not broken.

Yeah, yeah. No, you know, I don't live. Like, yo, you're okay, you're okay, you're okay, if you're not bleeding or dying, then you're, get the fuck up. Right. You know. But it might even be like, yo, let's get some money. Like, the reflex is like, okay, something bad happened? Can we monetize it? Yeah. How do we make money here? Yeah. So, which again, I just, it's not. It's not right or wrong.

I just think it is a reflex that people have. And being aware of it can be helpful. Yeah, I mean, I've definitely been with people to laugh when, you know, people trip because they're so nervous, they don't know what to say. Yeah, 100%. But I'm the one. I go pick you up. Right.

And you're good. Like, yo, you're all right. Get up. You know, you're fine. Don't say another word. Get out of here. You know, that kind of thing. So, you know, and with the being, not that I'm cold, but I'm just not.

Like, I know what you're feeling a lot of times, if that makes sense. But I just, you got to get rid of that. Like that's, you got to get over that. Like, you know, when my kids are growing up and they cry, stop fucking crying unless you want me give you a reason to cry. Like, there's no, if there's a problem, tell me. Right. And what, in my relationship with women is, if you have a problem, let's talk about it.

Don't, don't be mad for two days. Come to me right now. What's the problem? Either I can fix it or I can't. It's very simple. If I can't fix it, you got to go or I got to go. Right. If I can fix it, I'll do whatever I can to fix it.

But if I can't, I'm not going to say, oh, I'll work on it. I can't do that. I don't do that. I don't know a ton about women, but I imagine that perspective. Not a lot of women love that. But at the end of the day, that's what it is. Of course, of course. But I get that.

If you don't have time for your own emotions, it's hard to have a ton of time for other people's emotions. And I don't understand them. Yeah, of course. Because if you're not dealing with your own emotions, how are you going to be able to deal with some random person's emotions? And it doesn't, like, someone should, like, you're upset over at that. Like, you know, I'm dating this girl. I'm at the casino.

I'm playing $1,000-hand blackjack. I got my chick over here sitting in a chair, like, you know, she's on her phone, whatever, because she walked away from the tables. I lost a couple hands around, whatever. Some dealer walks over and hugs me or like grabs my arm or something. Like, hey, I'm seeing you a while.

I mean, what the fuck? I'm playing cards. My chick gets so mad. I'm like, Stach, what are you mad about? I didn't do anything. I was playing cards. The girl walked over to me. But in their head, they just turn it.

Well, you're probably at dinner with her. You probably fucked her last. I'm like, what? Because I don't think like that. Like, I'm not a jealous or emotional person. So when I get, with people like that, it doesn't make sense to me. Right.

Because I think jealousy is like a terrible emotion. Like, I think that rules more things than anything else. Sure. If you're making $100 million, I'm not jealousy. I'm glad like, you'll put me down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or other people are like, I hope you fucking loses everything. Not me.

I want you. Listen, the more money you have, if you can put me on, let's do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So jealousy is one of those things that that's my problem is that don't be jealous. Like, I'm, listen, I smile, I flirt, but I don't mean. I'm coming home with you. That's how I get things done. I'm a transactional person now.

everything's a transaction. Do you have a hard time seeing when other people could be jealous because you don't possess that truth? Yes, 100%. You know, like the girl before Stasia was dating a little bit, if I smiled an 80-year-old woman in Lowe's because she was working there and she would tell me where all the scratch and that shit is that's hidden, we'd have a fight.

I'm like, I'm working. Leave me to fucking wrong. You know, that kind of thing. So I don't, I can't understand that. The girl I was with for 15 years, Michelle, the one I got in trouble with, She might have been jealous, but she never showed it. So you guys were good. Listen, but it turned to the business relationship more than like a love relationship.

So she's like my best friend rather than anything else. You know what I mean? Which I fucked that up. I let it get there. Boy, business is your love language. Exactly. So you're like, all right, if it's business and his business. We're good.

You know what I mean? Right. And that's just kind of the way that you are, which makes sense. So, okay, so back to 17. Your grandfather passes away, which is tragic. And then immediately, to correct before I'm wrong, you say, I'm going to take my money. and I'm going to go buy cocaine. That's it.

How does that happen? That seems so crazy. Because, you know, I remember where I was driving down. I remember where I was when I made the decision. How bad it is. I was going through a stop street. I passed the car. I will go by a cop.

Cop came and turn around. And in my head, I'm like, I know where I'm going tomorrow. I got to figure this out. Because now I don't have my grandfather, the deal is over. He gave me the 5,000 a year before for the car. I got the car. And there's nothing. Now I can't leave anybody down.

And in my head, I'm not going to get in trouble. Catch me if you can. I think I'm smarter than these dudes. So everything I do, I study before I do it. If I'm not good at, I just don't do it. I mean, I'll try and play. Like, you want to go say, let's go play tennis. Okay, I'll try.

I'll suck. But I'm not going to say, I'm going to beat your ass in tennis. Like, no, you're going to fuck me up. You know what I kind of thing. So that's where my mindset was like, I know what I want. I see these videos. I know what's available because I go from Philly City Life to the suburbs of a bunch of hillbillies in the country.

I know what they're looking for. I know what's happening in the city, but there's nothing there's no drugs around where I am at this time. Right. It's very hard to get. Isn't Philly? No, in Jersey. In Jersey.

But I had a Philly connection because I was living there with my mom. So I knew what the city was doing, which, you know, city life compared to, you know, the difference. Look at here compared to the suburbs. So I had that, that's what we're going to do. That's what I'm doing. Interesting. And so did you even have an intention of doing the drugs or you just wanted to flip it? Never.

I would buy 50 pounds of weed at a time. And I was scraping the table to put it in a bag. to sell as a quarter. Right. Like, I didn't smoke it. And the Coke, when we break, every, I was taking the thing and I'm scraping.

Like, I want everything, all I want to say, it's about money. Money is my drug. I don't like being fucked up. I don't like drugs. I hate drugs. Right.

I always hate drugs. But it was a means to an end. Did you ever try blow when you were coming up? Never done coke in my life. Really? Never. That is interesting. Never did, never smoked weed.

Never did, never did, never did coke? Nothing. But in your mind, did you think, like, oh, this is the fastest way to make the most money? Yes. and that's it was a money thing that's all it came down

and there might have also been like I don't want to say like an arrogance but like a confidence that went with where you're like the dudes that are doing this I feel like I can do it better than them yes and no because I came down I was a big fish

when I came back to Jersey when I come so I would go by I started an eight ball I mean I was buying eight ball for I think it was $120 back down for people that don't know what is an eighth an ounce of Coke okay you know it's three and a half grams

so I go to Philly grab that come down put it in 20 bags which you know like a tenth of a gram. So you get 20-20s out of an 8-ball. So I pay 120 for an 8-ball and make 400. And that's just how I started. Were you cutting it or were you just keeping it clean?

I didn't cut it at first. I mean, when I was getting nine... I started cutting it when I started buying nine ounces at a time. When I swore about quarter kilo, I was... Then I started... So everybody's putting like this baby laxative shit in there. I was putting the nicetol. Like, I would buy everything in the...

In the GNC, they kind of look like it. And I was trying everything. Like, that's how nuts I was with... It was like a business to me. So you would bump it? I would take nine ounces. I'd buy an isotol and put another ounce or two in it. Mix it all together.

I found, I figured out how to compress it again, make it so they're thinking, oh my God, this shit's great. And I just got made nine ounces into 11 ounces. But people were putting like these baby lacks of all this shit you can tell. Yeah.

I'll finish in it. You couldn't, it didn't hurt their nose. They didn't know anything. They're like, that's great shit ever. I'm like, it's not bad for you.

I got isotol is like a bodybuilding supplement? Yeah, it's a bodybuilding. Yeah, yeah. but it has a little, like, shiny little flex in it. So it looks like, like, you know, what they would call fish scale, which they don't, you know, but that's what it was. Interesting.

I did that. Like I said, I went through probably $3,000 worth of different lifting supplements, white that I could cut the cocaine with to find out what was the best. And so when you buy your first eight ball, who did you go to it? And you knew that guy just from, like, the neighborhood? Yeah. So that was just a guy in the city that I knew, you know, either played ball with. And it took me about. maybe six weeks to get to like half an ounce.

So then he was way out of his range. So that's when I said, okay, so I found another guy that showed me these projects in Philadelphia. You go on a project. So I was tan. I wasn't like I wasn't near the size.

It's probably 2.15 then, you know, so I was, so I thought I was Spanish. Right. I pulled my hat down low. Then, you know, I was all taned up. You are in Puerto Rican, bro.

Well, yeah. Yeah, you know, I can't speak a lick. I know you're Italian and Irish or whatever lie you made up. You're Puerto Rican, but I can't speak it. So I walk in, so I would buy nine, I'd buy, I went to half an ounce, walk in and buy, the first door would be like up to an ounce. You get like getting into like any of the ounces of this guy. So I did that for a while.

Then I started getting to like the half keys and things. So now I got to walk in this fucking projects that they have, it's the new Jack City shit. Like you remember that movie? I don't know if you saw it. Yeah, yeah. And which side of Philly is this? This is in northeast Philly, off of Kensington Avenue. Okay.

Okay. Which I was there the other day. It's brutal. But, yeah, that's crazy up there. It's fucked up. Fentanyl's fucked up. Yeah. But so I walk in, so they had the doors, and you'd walk up the steps, and they had the doors cut, like barn doors.

You know how you have, like, the two, the ones open? And there's dogs in every room all the way down this hallway to the room. There's a hall. There's a room at the end of this hall. What kind of dogs? Rottweilers. Pits. Pits.

like, you know, just barking all the time. And you see food, they're just, like, throwing food in there. So they always log. So what they did was, it was Jamaicans. And they had their thing all way in the back. So I'm taking it. This time is probably $8,000 for nine ounces back then. You know, 8,000 or $9,000, whatever was.

And I would walk all the way past this thing by myself, dumb as fuck. Like, you know, now you think I'm like, I'm just idiot. Walk to the end, walk in, there's fucking table just like this, full of kilos and a triple B. What do you want, man? So... And a triple beam, what's that? A scale.

I'm sorry, triple. Like the old scale. Oh, really? Yeah. So they had that fucking bust the key open right there, give me whatever I wanted, give them the cash. Now, they could have robbed me at any time and just said, get the fuck out or it shot me. Were you afraid of that? I didn't think.

At that time, I just didn't think. I'd be scared now. Because you're thinking, I'm going to do business. Right. They want to do business. They got money. And there's nothing here. Right.

But listen, if they would have figured out a white guy, but they didn't. You know, so I walk in. So I'm like, I'm asking them, what are the dogs for it? and if they got run down, they had a button in there. The dogs would get out because it was only one way in, and they had access in theirs to upstairs,

to the next building. They let the dogs out there got raided so they could get out in time. No way. So it's like, and that's in like 94, 5, 94, 95. So these dudes are running the trap out of the project, and if they hear a knock from the feds, push a button, dogs go out,

they hit the roof, go to the next building, run down the stairs in the next building. And leave. That is crazy. And they probably weren't even from here. You know what I mean? Like they nobody knew who they are. That's like a fortress.

Oh yeah. It's insane. But they think that's what you know, people don't realize that the criminal enterprise is way smarter than any business you'll ever go to. They put more work into eluding the police than, you know, they think through shit that multi-billion dollar companies can't figure out. You know, these criminals do, you know. And so, you know, you look at that.

But like, you know, I'm driving here. I'm like, dude, I would never do that again. Like, what was I thinking? But yeah, they don't want to make it hot, though. Like, they kill a dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes and no. I mean, listen, they have no value for life, man.

Now it's a lot worse. Back then it was different. Like, there's, back then there's respect for cops. You know, like, now there's not. Like, it's just such a bad time now. Like, you know, listen, I always had respect for cops. Listen, you got a job, I got a job. My job is just not have you catch me.

Your job is to catch me. It's a game. Like, look at the IRS or something. Like, look, I'm going to work on my tax shit and you're the IRS. Catch me if you can. And so that's what. it's always been. So when I did get rated and busted,

I was like, okay, that's the game. That's the game. Game over. Yeah. Now I got to fight. Interesting. Did you ever kick it with these guys?

Did you like them? Like the dudes that you were? No. You never, you never, like you just did business and left. No, yeah. So until I got to bigger,

you know, while I was doing, you know, like a quarter key or half a key, I wasn't really friends with them. You know, because there was no, I wanted to leave,

like get it and go, you know. And because the drive over the bridge is scary. Like that's when I'd be scared. Yeah. Going over to a bridge. And if sometimes I go over like the Delaware Memorial Bridge

instead of like the Walt Whitman, you know, come out of Philly, come right to. I go like further and come around. So there's, but they always have like a cop car sitting on the end and the bridge like, like fuck, this is it. And I always, I never got,

I always, I was comfortable driving because I was, I got complacent after a while. But when I was doing that early on, I was scared to death. You would hide it like in the boot or something? No, I kept right on me in case I'd get rid of it. Oh, really?

Yeah. If you got to ditch it out of it. the window. It's it. Throw it over the bridge and the water. Wow. Yep. That's so sketchy.

Were you reinvesting everything back in? Everything. I didn't buy sneakers. I didn't buy shit. Nothing. I ran an apartment. After college, ran an apartment. Fucking had a bed in there, a table,

and two guys sleeping in the front of the house. That's it. And why did you go to college after high school? Probably for my mother. Yeah. You know, I got thrown out of Goldie Beacon for incite in a riot my first semester. That's the college you went to. The first one, yeah.

I went to Goldie Beacon and was the little business school in Delaware. And why did you started a ride? Well, I didn't necessarily... I did, but I didn't. I mean, I got blamed for it, but I guess it kind of is my fault.

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gag gagnon, Gag, N-O-N, or dial pound law, pound 529 from your cell phone. This is a paid advertisement. Let's get back to the show. You're not supposed to pledge. I was pledging for a fraternity. So a couple of my friends were there at school that went to mobile. So, like, we can get you in this fraternity cap out for whatever. I was like, okay. So you had to pledge.

And again, it's that thing where like, go steal a sign for me, do this for me. I'm not doing this. Don't tell me what to do. Fuck you. I'm not doing it. You know, but I played the game per se. You know what I mean? like they were like go steal I want to sign you know they steal signs from the street like

no they're not doing that you know and back then I still had drugs and money and gambling going on so I wouldn't even you know like fuck you but I stayed in it you know and I kind of all my the guys I was um pledging with the the the motto was we not me you know so we all do it together I was like okay well listen you guys go and do it let me know how you make out you know so that's not your model for your whole life right model from when your kid is me me me And then maybe someone else if they... If I got to take care of you, I'll protect you. But like, it's not...

You're not my people. But you're worried about you. I'm worried about me. Because I'm not going to jail for some fucking clown who steal a sign. Right. I got too much shit going on. Yeah.

So I'm probably... It's the end of the first semester and they have a mixer with another fraternity. And Gorda Beacom had the dorm set up where they're little apartments. So there was like four bedroom apartments in each floor, four-bedroom apartments. So I bring some of my guys out.

called black guys, a Spanish dude, you know, and what are they doing this party? They start smoking weed. One of them calls and says that N-word to this guy. And it's back then. But of course, started a fight. So we start fighting with the other fraternity that was fucked with my guy.

So we get out into the hallway. Because the other fraternity called your boy. Yeah. Which, and at the end of the day, it didn't fucking matter. Right. But it's, yeah. You're going to disrespect our guys.

It's going to be a fight. So they're all going nuts. So we get into the hallway down the stairs. steps. You know, they're throwing people down the steps all the way to the fraternity. We're beating the shit out of the whole other fraternity. Well, then I look around and none of my pledge mates are helping me. So what I do, I start fucking punching them. If a motherfucker, we're not me, right? So now we're, so it's me and five guys fucking up everybody. Because we're in a hallway. You can't get to it. You got to come down the steps. If you're

coming down to steps, if you're coming down to the flight, he's fucking yump, I'm throwing down next steps. It's just a shit show. And you're locked in. They couldn't get in because the door's locked, you had to push your way out. So the RAs and shit couldn't even get in. So we had a 15, 20 minute fucking fight going on. The dudes are throwing, I get hit with a full beer can from like the first floor, you know, throw it, hit me. That's the

hardest I get hit. Split you. Oh, yeah, it could could, but that's it. But we're walking up and stuff, pulling people down. So that night, it all settles down. I get back in my dorm, the fraternity, the president of fraternity comes into my room. I said, my man, we, not me, right? Whack! Beat the shit out of him in the room.

in my dorm room. Get the fuck out of here. Next day I'm going, they call me like, Mr. Riley, you know, the dean has me. He's like, what's up? You know, I know what it is.

He says, we're not going to throw you out, but we're going to need you to find a new place to learn. This is your love. You got a couple weeks here, and then you got to go. I said, you know, that's all fun, but you're the one who's lying

these 19, 20-year-old kids that drank, and you knew it. So maybe I'll talk to my dad, you know, the attorney. Yeah. So I said, you might want to make sure my paperwork looks right. You know, because I knew

I had the upper hand. I knew I fucked up. Yeah, yeah. So I go home and tell my dad, but I had already found another college you'd go to. So before I broke it down to what really happened, because I was living my father at that time, I found another college down the street to go to. Which, you know, I told him, I'm going to go there

in golf. And I was like, oh, he said, yeah, did you get to fight? You know, because your parents always know. I don't know how they fuck they know. You know, report cards would come. They knew when the report cards was supposed to be in the mail. I'm here trying to steal it out of the mail. I'm here trying to get another week before I got in trouble. Yeah. Yeah, but they They found it. So I did that.

That was a problem. So then you got moved to a different college. And then that's when I started a casino there. Yeah, started a casino in the dorm. Yep. So you're probably like 19. 19.

Yeah. And you, or what, you're just running a game? So we had CLO was a game, Dice game. We had blackjack table. And so, you know, we paid the RAs off to keep us out of trouble.

We had, excuse me, up all night. I mean, just, it was an all night thing. And how many people were playing in the game? Oh, fuck. I mean, there would be 20, 30 people a day coming out. Oh, all day.

Yeah. Pay a girl from the sorority to come through and deal. We had everything was set up. And that's when it was like AOL was just coming on and the dial up, you know. So, but that's how I was ahead of the curve on that kind of stuff because I'm trying to get online before anybody else was. Like I'm taking the dorm. I went and bought like any of these cards to plug the phone wire into to plug into your computer to work. The dial-up shit.

Yeah. So I had all that. Nobody in the school even knew about that shit then. So I'm trying to get like, I was ahead of the game on there. If I would have put my sense into like probably good shit, I probably really, you know what I mean? But I didn't. Did you have no aspirations at that time to do like clean business?

I don't even think I think I was just running with it. You know, it's just it's one of those things where I'm just comfortable. You know, and I definitely wanted to do a bit. I didn't know what I was going to do because, you know, growing up I thought it was going to be nice plan. It was mine. Right. So the ice plan was mine. When my grandfather, when he got sick, he was a three-month thing,

probably two weeks before he died, they forced him to sign to change his will to take me out of it. My grandfather and my grandmother and my uncle. Because they didn't really like you. Correct. And because he wanted his part to go to me. Of course.

Of course. So he couldn't even phone. He never would have done out of his own. And my mother didn't fight it because she's just not a fighter. Right. She's like, you know, living,

everything, yeah. And, you know, which is, I get it now. I mean, I'm glad I didn't have it. At the time, you were probably hot, but. Well, so when, When my grandmother died, my grandma gave me $5,000. Okay? My mom called me.

She's like, well, you know, grab me left you $5,000. Fucking keep it. I don't know what that fucking money. You know, because I didn't. Like, fuck. Right. So once again, your own blood kind of fucks you up. Exactly.

You know, and, you know, my mom, she's just a good person, you know, and she's like, no, honey, you know, they just, I'm not like that. Like, fuck them. Yeah. You know, my mom still, like, to this day, she's friends with lady. like you said, I bring, if you talk shit, I'm going to, I'm calling you out on it. So she has this friend that she plays cards with Bridge, wherever it is. And she's like, honey, can I talk to you?

I'm at her house for dinner one night. I'm like, yeah, what's up? She's like, can you be nice to Ellen? I said, why? She's like, well, we play cars. And I was like, mom, fuck her. I don't wait. Who's Ellen?

This lady I did business with it. They kind of fucked me on the deal. So like I talk shit on her. Like, every time I say I make her leave. But she's my mother's friend. Like, she's at the house playing cars with your mom. And then what would you say? I just come and talk.

There's fucking scumbags here. Like, that's what I do. Like, I just call, yeah. Nobody's safe when I come around because if you do me dirty or somebody did you dirty and I see them and they're trying to be your friend. You're fake as fuck. Like, get out of here. Right.

You can't handle the small talk. No, I don't want it. Like, don't say, oh, I'm, you're fucked up. Like, you can't come back now. Yeah. So, you know, and that's the other problem I have is it. Like you said, I was telling you, I'll cut you off fast as fuck. Cush you out and leave.

Like, you got to go. And then that's it. It's just dead forever. Dead forever. I've cut deals off. I've cut millions of dollars of business. I've done with people because of that. Like, fuck you. Would you consider yourself, like, petty?

I don't think it's petty because people don't like, people like, I don't like cowards. Right. I like toxic masculinity. You know, like, we don't have that anymore. And we don't. But, like, if you're going to talk shit, be ready. Yeah. And make sure you can take it.

You know, because I know who not to fuck with. So you should, too. You should know, don't fuck with me because I'm going to call you. I see it. I'm gonna talk shit. Wherever I see you, I'm gonna make you uncomfortable. It's on, yeah, it's on. It's on.

You know, it doesn't matter. We're at a funeral, I'm gonna get you. Like, that's just, that's my nature. Because, so don't, because people talk shit all the time. And the internet recently in the last 10 years has made people gangsters, and they never were punched in the face. Yeah. You know, so my big thing is, every kid at 18 should get fucking knocked the fuck out.

One time. Because, listen, it's going to teach, it's going, one, you're not as tough as you. you think you are when you're typing those keys in. Yeah. You know, you see these influences shit like kids talking all this shit. Then they get, you know, somebody approaches them. They're like, oh my God. What, you know, nah.

Like, be ready. If you want to talk shit or don't talk shit. Yeah, I'm okay with like, I'm okay with like some banter going back and forth. But don't like, if I see I'm fucking you up. Well, now I'm ready. Yeah, that was my thing. Like, I never really got a fight growing up because I never really felt like fighting. And so because of that, I never really talked shit.

Like, even like playing sports all growing up, like, I didn't really like talking shit. I don't like that either. Because I don't want to fight. I don't want to fight either. And that's the thing, like, I'm confrontational, but I will call you out on your shit. I know you, the most dangerous people or it was you don't hear from. Right.

And I know that? Because I've been with these dudes. You know what I mean? So these people don't understand. The guys are not talking any shit, they're the ones you better be fucking scared of. I'm not scared of the dude here that's running his mouth. He's a pussy. Right.

So that's my biggest thing is that I just, I want you to be real. If you hate me, just tell me hate me. I'm a, if you call me a piece of shit, scumbag, you say to my face, I'm 100, 75, don't go to my chick saying, do you know when he used to, he went to jail and shit? Yeah, I mean, that's stupid. You don't say that when you're sucking my dick at the tableware

is talking about how great I'm doing. You know what I mean? I don't like that fake shit. So that's where, you know, like I'm rough around the edges because I just can't hold it back. Like, you know, if somebody's talking shit on you, you're my boy, I'm going to say, yo, get out. We don't like you.

If you don't like them, I don't like them. Right. I'm loyal, old school, loyal like that. And there's not people like that anymore. Yeah, I see that. I see that. So you're at this new school, running a casino game, flipping keys kind of here and there.

No, so I was only doing, that's when I started. So that was in 95. Doing more weed down there. There was a lot of weed. And where are you getting the weed from? Philadelphia. Yeah, so you just have another connect in Philly that... It was a Philly cop.

For 10 years. 10 years? He would bring it in a cop car over the bridge for me sometimes. Like a dirty cop that's... Oh, yeah. And how do you link with him? Like...

I met him through another guy that's from another guy that just... I didn't know he's a cop. He might not have been a cop on a metal. Oh, interesting. He turned into a cop. And so his hustle was like

he would shake down a drug dealer type shit. I didn't ask questions. Okay, sure. But like, hypothetically, he could be... Oh, he would be the one that pull you over to 200 pounds. He'd just take it until you leave. And then everyone's happy? Everybody's happy.

And then... I would have done that. I was a cop. thank God you want to go Yeah listen I don't You got a hundred grand in the bank In the car and it's dirty money

Yeah Yeah get that up You want to go to prison You want to go jail Or you want to give it to me You want to drive home tonight Go to your family Is it?

I'll take the money And then he links with you Dishes it to you pay him Yep And he's getting it for free So he probably gives you He could have to connect Because a lot of was the same

So he definitely had to connect Somewhere But I'm sure a lot of it was like Because listen that's the way it was You know Where I was if they caught you Would have fucking smoking they're putting you in the county.

There, the cops were they dump it out. Like if you have a quarter, you know, Philly, the same thing like New York, just dump it out. I'm not going to do the paperwork for that. In Jersey, a little town I'm in are like, oh, no, you're going to fucking county jail. So it was a different kind of mentality, too. So you would get it from Philly and then take it back to Jersey.

And then, so you were like running the game, giving people weed probably at the game to, like, keep them playing and shit. And I was right next to, so it was in, it was in Dover, Delaware. So Deltec was right next door, which is a big school. So like I was supplying that And there's a couple guys there Basketball players and shit that would take it And it was you know

And there was projects around there So it was like It was a good place to be at that age too Because I would drive it So I would drive it from Millville To Delaware In my car I had a probe

For probe back then Yeah I put it in the speaker And just drive it But the problem is I got Like I said I got complacent So I wasn't worried about shit

And that you know That's the only thing that like I never got I should got knocked off a few times probably, but I never did. I got lucky if there's such a thing as luck. But you weren't flashy, though. Not at all. Right. You weren't buying chains. You weren't, you know. Nothing. Literally nothing. Like clubs, you buy a bottle. Really.

Nothing. I like money more than anything else. And what was the goal at that point? Were you trying to invest for a thing? Or you were just like, yeah, let's just keep stacking it. Let's keep putting it together. I get 20K. Let's dump it back in. I get 40K. But that's the thing. I just turned over. Like, you know, turn it to where I'm spending a half a million on the package to come up. And then did you ever graduate from the second school? I paid for a degree.

Wow. So I literally paid for them to put me through school. You talked to the dean and you're like, were you grades okay? Yeah, so I test very well. I paid for every paper I ever did. I never wrote a paper. I never did anyhow more.

I never took a book. But if I go to class and listen, that's all I need to test. So I was a very good test taker where a lot of people are opposite. I couldn't fucking study for 10 hours ever in my life. Like I just lose my mind. Yeah. But I can, if you tell me one time, I remember what you said,

and I'm good enough to figure out what I'm supposed to write, like what the correct answer should be. Yeah. So that's where I'm lucky in that aspect of things. To this day, I'm still that way. Like, I took the real estate test. I finished it in 20 minutes. People are there crying for three hours.

Right. I'm just, and I got three wrong. And probably because I just messed up something. So I test well, but I just don't do the other parts. Like, I've never stand just down just write a paper. And then how do you pay for the papers? You just find a kid that's good to write in. Yeah.

I'm saying, yeah. I mean, anything, listen, I need a paper. Now, listen, the internet now is sick. Yeah, it's wide open. Back then, it was just, you know, you write whatever you want. Back then, you know, you found a fucking dork. You know what I mean? This, I got my SAT taking.

I got an ID made in Philly. Gave until a kid take the SATs for me. Interesting. And you were just like fine dudes. Like you were nice, though. Like you weren't, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Listen, you always get the dudes that are like, you know, the goofy ones.

They want to be cool. Oh, man. Come over here, Ronnie. Ronnie, come here. Let me talk to you. Yeah. Like here, Ronnie, you want to go get some pussy. Get for some of his weed.

You know what I mean? Like, but I need two papers written. You know, that kind of shit. So like I said, everything in my life is transactional. I never want to need for free. I'm going to pay you for what you do. And let's do it right. And then we're over.

Yeah. Tomorrow's another day. You need something call me. So then by the time, so then how do you pay for the degree? Like your grades are fine. Papers are getting paid in. Yeah. I just wasn't there.

So I set my schedule to, it was like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. So I come home the week, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And we got in. to, I got into the girl that did all the, all the counseling, she did counseling for, like, the students who were there, but she also had access to the computers in the school. So then she introduced me with another person and wanted a couple bucks, and that's, it was just super simple. How much do you have to pay?

It was eight grand, I think, all together. It doesn't do anything for you, though. Right. College is the biggest scam in the world. Yeah, of course. It does nothing. Unless you're going to be like a dog. a doctor, a lawyer, like a super specific thing.

But what was your degree in? Manager. Yeah, what the fuck is that? Drug marriage. A ride a drug grant. But no, that's what I'm saying. So, you know, my biggest thing is today, like, go to trade school. Right.

Do this, you know, everyone wants to be a YouTuber, which is cool. Yeah. But in 10 years, the fucking plumbers and electricians are going to be way more valuable on YouTube because nobody's going to do it. Yeah, yeah. You know, and listen, I think that's a great shit. This is great shit. But there's nobody now, like you said, we're losing people in the trade.

business because, you know, oh, Johnny's going to go to school. He's going to be, no, Johnny's not. You know, the school teachers that pay, they want to go to like these big schools to make 60 grand a year makes no, you're $300,000 in debt to be a fucking school teacher. Yeah, it's crazy. What? Yeah, get paid immediately out of high school, go be a welder. Listen, make a hundred grand off rip with no debt. With no debt. Yeah. But people don't, you know, because there's this big thing, oh, he doesn't have a degree. He doesn't do this. It doesn't get you. What those big schools, they might get you in somewhere if you're doing a specific. But that's it.

Back in the day, it would probably do more for you. Now it doesn't, I don't think it does a lot. It's just saturated. Like, the whole college thing has just become such a business. It's a big business. Back in the day, if it's like 60s, 70s, maybe into the 80s, like, it's. Yeah, you know, my father's time. Take a loan.

But it wasn't, you know. But the loans weren't so exorbitant. And, I mean, what are they doing? Why is this school teacher you need to pay $200,000 for, to learn? It doesn't make sense. Yeah. You know, and it's, you know. Second grade teacher.

Yeah, yeah. I think Norm McDonald had. joke like that like you know what you need to teach fifth grade a sixth grade degree yeah no it's true you know but and that's the thing people don't see that you know like I've dated school teachers fuck I don't know listen school teachers

nurses yeah they're all fucking crazy they all well you know I got a degree I'll say you're a fucking teacher like shut the vodka up you're like fourth highest on the hierarchy of women you know what I mean like shot the fuck up because you got listen I have this hierarchy of women I tell all my checks listen first you got like the street walker

right she they're in low it's like the pond's come okay no then you go to then you go to like the stripper okay okay you know a little higher in the streetwalk but not much okay okay but then we go to the hairdresser she's a little higher than like the hook stripper but you i'm sure you know the hairdressers then you go to the teachers they're only right there but they're still then you get the nurse like so yeah yeah they're working way out go away so what's about that well that's when it gets a little complicated because the the you know like if the female doctors are awesome but they think they're fucking God. You know what I mean?

So you got to knock them down till. And I tell them all the time, like, hey, listen, you know, everybody's got a job. We got to do it, you know. And I respect all of it. Like, I would be happy, honestly, with a fucking French frown. I'd be happy with a bartender. If she got my back, I got her back.

Yeah, of course. We're just bullshit right now. And that kind of thing, yeah. Like, I'd be happy with that. I don't give a fuck how much you make. Yeah. You know, so you can tell me you went to school. I don't give a fuck.

You wouldn't make dollar school. Yeah, school teachers do not need to be going. a quarter million in debt to like be a great teacher. You can be a great teacher with a high school diploma. It's your DNA. 100%. So, yeah, that's interesting. So you pay for the degree, you get out.

And at this point, once you're graduating, how old are you? And like, what is your net worth? So I'm 22. Well, I'm 21. And that's when gamblers start getting big, booking. And I like, I love, I'm not going to lie. I hated drugs, but I love taking bets.

Did you like gambling? No. I don't like gambling. day. I gamble, but I'm a money guy. I like money. Why do you like taking bets, though? Because the house doesn't lose. It's just good business. It's good business. Yeah. I mean, you got a 70-something percent win rate. I can't do that if you're betting. Right. So, and I've lost money before gambling, like, you know, like that I made, fuck, I worked and I'll fucking lose it all fast. So I like being the house. Yeah. But gambling to me, people love gambling, but like a

degenerate gambler isn't happy until they lose. I'm, that's, like, it's in the end. That's, if you read about it. They're, their thrill is when they're losing. Right. What do you mean? So they're not satisfied. So if you're betting and you're up,

if you take a thousand dollars casino and you make $2,000, I leave. Because I double my money. Yeah. A Campbell's like, I'm going to make 10, but then they start losing. They don't leave until they lose everything. So their thrill is that trying to get there, but they're never going to get there because it just doesn't work. You don't 10 extra money every time you go.

Take your profit and leave. That's how I think. Right. So I've lost before. I mean, I've lost 100 grand before, you know, on like stupid plays. But I know if I get up 50 grand, I'm done. Like, I go to Vegas. I'll make 50 grand.

I'm not playing again. We can go spend it on shopping. Right. So that's kind of like the difference, you know, in gambling. So I came home and I hooked up with a guy that did a booking in my town. Okay. I knew what he did all the time, but I was interested. So I bought books.

Like, who fuck buys books on how to gamble? Or how to be a bookmaker? But they haven't won to have them. So I was reading, like, you get rice paper in case they ever run down because you can just put it in water and they can't take the bets. Because, you know, that was when everything, nothing was computerized. Wow. It was all written down.

So in 90, 96, 97, I started taking bets, just from local bets. And how much money did you have from the drug game at this point? I didn't have a ton saved up because, like, you take some losses. You take, you know, you do like, I had like 30 or 40 pounds of weed that got moldy. You know, like, so there's losses. So, 100 maybe, 70 maybe. But, I mean, it's good money. But I also lost it all in a couple weeks with football.

I mean, so it would go up and down. What do you mean you lost it? So, like, week 12 of the football season, I always lost as a bookie. I have no idea. All the favorites covered week 12. Week 12, I always want to shut down. But for five or six years straight, I lost. every week 12, probably six figures.

The first couple weeks, all the, all of, so you, you follow the trends. So I'm like a dork like that. Like, I'm reading, like, I know what they're going to play. I can tell you what they're going to play. And 80% of time, every bet's one way, it goes the other way. So I like that. But I know, like, the first couple weeks of football, before the defense gets tight, the overs hit.

So people hit me for the overs. You know, so that kind of thing. So until it went overseas to Costa Rica, and I had them take my bets for me all, like, when the computer started thinking, I would know when we're going to get buried. So I know how much we need to have because this is going to be a bad week. Now, we had good weeks too,

but if we don't get paid. Because, you know, the gambler, especially like the degenerate football gambler, you know, so you bet Monday night and you got to pay Friday. Like, that's how I ran my week. Well, they won by Tuesday, they're calling, you, oh, can I get that money early?

Of course. My man, oh, you motherfucker. You've never paid me early a day. Get the fuck away from me. But usually I would pay him because, I just want to get over with it. Yeah, yeah. Because, but a lot of times I wanted to win on Monday night so they didn't owe me as much

because it's always easier to get a little bit than a lot. You know, my buddy still does it. He likes those little $25,50 bets. I wanted a $500,000 bets. So I had a bigger, very much bigger exposure. But I also liked that. You know, I didn't watch any games. I haven't watched the game in three years since the last three years.

Since I started Neil and I started watching football. Right. But back then, I would have a guy at the office, my buddy Jay, he'd take bets. What do we need? What do we need? He told me, I'd be in the mall, shopping. And people just find you word of mouth. Yeah, yeah.

Well, they know because, like, we had football tickets. What is that? You know, like, the parlay cards. Yeah, yeah. So you pick, like, four or five, six. You get paid odds on it. Like, you pick 16. They don't fucking hit.

I mean, once in a great while they would hit. So we had them. So people would know, like, oh, you know, he takes bets. And then the Borgadic poker room opened up in Lang City. And I was playing poker. I like poker. I don't like you more. I liked it then because it was like the game was real.

Now it's these people have money just throw money in all the time, which sucks. Yeah. But I would take, you know, people who watched a football game, but you couldn't bet sports in Jersey at that time. Oh, I got you. You know, Mark, what do you need? What do you need?

Like, give me $500 on Dallas. You got it. Just throw a fucking chip over here. That's when I started taking bets in the Borgata poker room. Interesting. So you were just running your book there. Yes. You weren't running like the Borgata.

No, no, just me. Just me. But you would just find people that would want to bet, obviously, because you're at the Borgata. On Sunday, I would be there at 7 a.m. At the poker table. Wow. Waiting for, I mean, because they're from all over. You know, the program was downstairs to work out this time.

And people just find you like, hey, can I get a bet on? Yeah, what do you want? And they always pay, I make it pay up front. Interesting. Because it's different than, like, taking phone calls from people you know. And you never got caught? Like, obviously you get kicked out if they knew you were running your book out of the. No, because, listen, we were playing cards.

We were bringing people in. It didn't matter. They don't really. At the end of the day, the more you spend there, the more you can do. Back then. Now, it's a little tough. Like, I was playing Blackjack with the guy from Pigley, owned all the Piggly Wiggly

grocery stores in the South. He brought fucking bags, duffel bags of cash and just like throw them on the table and like

would be mean like, like I didn't like because he was mean to like the dealers like I always like like listen I try to take care of dealers

because you know they want to be on the same team and he was just like a dick he would do and say anything you want they wouldn't get in trouble you know because he was a high roller

because he's a high roller so they you know they want that money they want the half a million he's bringing in so they know I would bring or me and whoever was there would bring in guys

just so they get a bed in they come to play poker. So they're taking their rake and it's the end we're staying there, you know, and they're confident and I'm buying a whole poker room breakfast or lunch or, you know, that kind of thing. So everybody made money. Everybody knew what's going on. And that's the thing. The money drives what people do. Yeah. Or allow you to do. If you're getting paid on it, you're like, yeah, well, okay, I don't see that going on. And are you still running your drug game at this point? Yeah. You're doing both. Both. So, but the drugs I didn't really touch. Like,

I was never a hand-to-hand kind of guy. Like, I had some guys who would just buy, like, an eight ball again. Just that, you know, my friends that I knew well. Who's your boys, whatever? Yeah, like a guy calls you up and he's like. Wouldn't call me ever. I never, I was never, I was always insulated from that. And so you had people?

Yeah. And how would you get them? Like, they'd be your friends. It'd be someone you knew from the block. Yeah, just, you know, it's hard to even understand how that works because I don't know how some of these people came in my life now. Because, you know, you're moving so fast that after, if they passed, like, if I, if I checked them out and they checked out, they were good to me.

But they never came to me. So, like, if you're my number one, one guy who at that time was Keith Rosetti, he had six guys who had six guys who had six guys. So I would, you know, you're my guy. So I'm here, here's a couple, here's a couple of kilos. And that's what kept you. And that's what kept me in a city. I mean, I did it for 18 years.

Right. But you were never afraid that one of these like other guys from a guy that you didn't know with Jamie was. Well, so a couple times the guys I know got caught, like in their car with shit. And then I knew, like, we had friends all over. So like, yo, Jimmy, Jimmy just told on you. They can't prove anything because he didn't get it from me. He got it from this guy.

the guy from this guy. They got this guy. That's not enough. I know Devin Wright sell drugs because they probably did that every day. Hey, I know Devin Wright. Can you prove it? I can't prove it. But I know he does. But they all knew too. You know what I mean? And you also weren't really touching any of the products, right? Like you were basically the bank that was funding it. And pushed it out. And I had two facets going, which I didn't really talk about a lot is that. So I had like my local guys that, you know, like, so I kept a couple, I always kept people around.

So the guy I got in trouble with, one of the guys I got in trouble with, Jamal, he had his own thing. We didn't do anything together, but we shared together. And what does that mean? If he needed something or I needed something, I'd get it for him, he'd get it from me. Gotcha. Just because that's your boy on the strength. And he did his own. Right, he did.

Now, we got in trouble together, but. So then I had like some local guys that would buy some stuff from, you know, maybe four or nine ounces. Because I wanted to keep that. I wanted them to think this is what I do. I didn't want them know that this is expanded. So I would keep this more public, if that makes sense. People would know, like, that's my guy. How do I explain it?

So I would buy, like, say, nine ounces from some Spanish guys. Okay. Local Spanish guys. They think that's all I'm doing. When I'm actually throwing 10 keys to lose over here. Just the streets, the street. So that way they don't come after me because it's, you know, nine ounces. You're doing low-level shit.

They think, I'm doing it. I'm over here on this other side that nobody knows about. You did that intentionally? Yeah. 100%. How did you know to do that? I didn't. I just, because I'm thinking what the cops think.

And how were you thinking what the cops are thinking about it? Just thinking about it. Yeah. It's all, I would think every day how to be better. And literally you'd be going to bed and you're like, the cops, they're going to think that I'm, if I'm doing nothing, they're going to think I'm doing something. Correct. So I'm going to do a little red herring magic trick over here.

You watch this because this is going on over here. So there's a whole other facet that they didn't even understand. Are you not afraid if you get jammed up for this thing that they're going to look into it the whole thing will unravel? So here, that's what happened, basically. So, um, 9-11 happened.

Okay. And what that did was, that gave the feds, the, the Patriot Act came out, if you ever heard that. So they, they did the Patriot Act.

And what the Patriot Act said was, I mean, it was this thick, but it said that you, if you think there's terrorism or something going, we'll give you a warrant. Right.

You can go to the phone, you can go through everything. So I had, we had inside people. Of course. I mean, you know, at inside people all the way through. Because, you know, like I would take loans. I would give loans to prison guards. So I did loans, booking, and drugs. But I would give loans like prison guards.

I mean, I had judges on my phone putting bets in. I had Congress people putting bets in because I was safe. And they trust me, I'm not going to tell. Does that make sense? And how do they know you're not going to tell? You just got, you got to feel it. You get a sense. Yeah.

This guy's solid. Yeah. I mean, you know, you've seen that like these Ben Affleck said, I need you to don't answer question we're going to hurt some people and the guy says whose car we're taking? The town. They just know, yeah, they know. So you know, like, you know, just you know, like, I'm pretty solid. And I'm not scared.

You know, so I wanted to put this out there like that do my other thing. And the Patriot Act came. So I went in and I didn't know anything about it, but at this time, everything's flowing so easy and I'm not really touching anything that I'm, like I said, I'm not scared. I'm playing softball to state police

and I'm fucking selling 50 pounds a week. in the parking lot as I'm playing softball. I'm bringing nine ounces in my baseball pants giving it to the guy I'm playing softball with on the state police team. Just because he wanted something and he hit you up. Yeah, like just because I know I'm like, you'd read you up here because who's going to sell drugs

during the softball tournament? Right. With the state police. Nobody. Me. You know what I mean? So the paycheck comes. Also, this is when you get jammed up with a Patriot Act. Patriarch's where it started.

Okay. I don't want to jump to that too quickly. I'm kind of more curious selling like the come up. Yeah. So like you're running the book. You're selling. like Coke at this point? Yes, Coke and weed.

And why do you go to Coke? Is it just easier, better margins? Better margins, I hate that I didn't like Coke at all. I liked weed. I love to smell of weed. And when I started getting weed, there was a, in New Jersey, there's a, it's called Skunk back then,

like in one cannabis cup, from New Jersey and everything. So they were growing this homegrown shit. You know, like it was toxic. Back, you know, because back when I was selling, it was brick shit. Yeah, Reggie. Yeah, terrible.

Now it's all this hot. I said, well, it wasn't like that back then, but the skunk was. So I was like, I didn't know who's doing it. So I found who was doing it, and I hooked up with him to teach me to grow. And he just had a grow house in his backyard. Well, he had in his basement that we went in the woods. So I, this is how nuts I am. So then I take my boy, I don't smoke weed this time.

I take my boy to Amsterdam because I want seeds. I want new seeds because the strain was getting weaker. So you flew to Amsterdam? Yeah. How old are you? I flew my boy, 24. Just because you know Amsterdam has good shit

Because I know that they sell seeds You can I know you can go to the Bradlight District You can smoke all you want And you can buy seeds So I flew out there with a guy that smokes weed every day To tell me what good seeds were So I could buy them Bring them home and start growing in New Jersey

In the woods Whoa Yeah so I take I go to Amsterdam I don't have you ever been asking It's like Gotham When I was there was dark the whole fucking time Right And it's changed I guess

The Red Light District back then was fucking insane. Yeah. But we get there and all the cabs, I don't know if you've been there recently, but when I was there, all the cabs were Mercedes cabs. Yeah. So I grabbed my boy, Richie,

and he's the one to smoke some. He's like, a piet. You know, back then, he's fucking smoked every day. And again, I've never smoked weed. So I couldn't tell you what was good or not. So I fly in first class to Amsterdam. We get out, we get in the limo, and I see this fucking hot-ass bitch, right?

I was like, wherever she's going, I want to go. And the cat driver starts laughing. Like, what are you laughing at my man? He's like, and she pulls up to get, walking this club in a red light district. I was like, all right, we're going here. Rich, come on, we're going in here, right?

The cat drive is like, no, you don't want to. I said, what the fuck you're talking about? He's like, that's a dude. No. Square the guy's like, oh, fuck. That's 20 years ago. That's the blue light district. Do you know that?

That's the thing. Like, if you go now and there's a blue light on the, on the window. Yeah. That means it's a trans woman. No, oh, fuck. So like, they have the red light and the blue light. Yeah, see, I didn't know that. And they look similar.

This is all red. Baddies and both, bro. So you got to be careful. Blue lights on. About to get surprised. If that's your thing, though, I mean, I'm not going to judge it. Whatever he wanted to do. That's what you want to do.

I don't like that shit, but you can do whatever you want. And that's the thing. And I'm laughing. So now we get out in the Red Light District. It's just fucking crazy there. Yeah, 24. It's gloomy. Like, it's never sunny when I was there.

It was there funny. Wintertime, maybe? Yeah. And so we're stopping when he smoke shops. These cafes, he's smoking. Well, he gets so high that he can't tell what's good because he's falling a fuck of sleep. So I'm here like,

I wasted a fucking five days. Yeah. So we finally find some seats. So I'm now, I'm talking to the guys that are growing there. So I need stuff that grows in my specific area, you know, in the East Coast because they're growing some inside.

Like, Hydro was just starting then. So you're talking to like a botanist. You're like, okay, how do I? How do I do it? Because I want to know the best way, the most, why waste time? I want to know,

I want to do the shit right. So, like, you know, so I was the first one in Jersey that I know of that was doing shit in the basement of They didn't know what this rock wool shit was. I mean, it's way different now, but with a filter system, rock wool and clay. So I bring these seeds back.

So we're going through, we're at the airport. So I seeds, I have a leather jacket. I stitched, I bought 40 seeds. I stitched the seeds in the jacket, like in the, same, right? Richie brings fucking a brownie home. Bro. Right?

And he's high as fuck. He's still got a brown. I was like, Rich, you can't, what the fuck? Like there's dog You know like And we gotta go through customs And you know the fucking dog So he eats this fucking thing

He's so fucked up Blasted Now we gotta fly home It's 8 out 7 out Where a fucking flight is He's fucked up We fly into New York We should go through customs

He's fucked up So I'm like Fuck I got my jacket on You know I'm going to get my bag I'm like I'm getting knocked off For seeds

Because he's an idiot Yeah Luckily we get through I bring the seeds home And then I saw a whole new string In Jersey Wow And but we grew on like the meadow.

We grew like right behind the prisons. Listen, right where you wouldn't think to look. Right. Because people would go through the woods and steal it. Oh, really? Like other guys, yeah. And once they found your spot, you were done. Done.

Yeah. They'd get it right with the two days before you go. You know, the harvest moon when they start hunting, you'd have to empty leaves. So we had 10 set up like this times 10 with dehydrators in metal racks and we paid 10 or 12 people to take off work for two weeks just to clean blood. So we ended up like 30 or 40 pounds a year of skunk. You're growing for free basically. Well, I mean, you know, we're paying a thousand dollars a day for people to clean it. Right.

But you're getting $4,000 a pound. Wow. With buds the size of your arm. Wow. You know, so that's just like that was... And it's a high-grade shit that people are paying more for... Four grand a pound. I'm selling the junk shit for $800.

Right. I'm selling this shit for $1,000 a quarter pound. And again, you're never really touching it. You have people that clean it. Well, I would be in the woods because I was amazed at the... I love growing that shit. Really? Oh, just watching the shit and seeing like the different color butt.

And I love the smell of it, but I don't smoke it. But let me tell you something. You're a little green thumb. Yeah, not really. You just like being out there and just, you know, you water it. Yeah. So we had 650, dual sport, the on off road, dirt bikes, the Honda's. Yeah.

We take fertilizer, like, miracle grow on the back of our bikes through the woods, water these motherfuckers three times a week and shit. Yeah, it was crazy. Wow. But I had more than that than ever would I cook. I didn't like cocaine. I had to smell it. Me, my lips numb. When I break?

Fuck, get that shit away from me. Major Lipson them? When we don't put up the bag, my fucking fit. You just, and I don't like the dust. It was like, get on you. I hate this shit, yeah. Don't like it. Don't like it to this day.

It's disgusting. And so you, like, after a certain age, you never sold weed or sold coke to anyone. I would give it to one person here and then another over here. So going back to that, so the Patriot Act, we'll get back on that. I'm sorry. I fucking lost track. But so the Patriarch, so I, at this time, I'm buying, I'm bringing up 40 keys all together from Florida. for $540.

I was paying $16,000 a key back then. 16,000 a key, okay. Right. So now it's probably doubled out. It's from like South Florida, from like Colombians? Off the boat. From the Italians down there. I had an Italian connection in Florida.

And they were getting it from... Didn't ask. Listen, because I only met him once in. I would send the cash down on the bus. Only the Graham? Yes. In the duffel bag, just like that. Half a million.

And you had a guy. They would take the bus down there. then I paid $1,000 a key to come back. So that's why this, buying this nine ounces and these, you know, four and a half ounce from these guys, that, that, now this is not on a radar.

This is on a radar. They're not paying attention to this side. They're paying attention to this. So if we get knocked off, it's going to be for this. And how many keys would you bring back up? 40 at a clip. On the bus?

Well, however we got back, I just paid a mule $1,000 a key. So if I got $20, I'd give him $20,000. And how do you find a mule? It's just a guy that knows a guy. I say, who do you got? They say, well, we got, you know, we got a hobby to do it. Tell hobby, let's go.

And how do you know that hobby is going to be solid? You don't. But that's what a game. And how many times did you have a guy that get clipped? So I had one guy only once. A Spanish guy got clipped. He was a friend of mine. And he wasn't really for me.

He had a connection too. He got called on a bus in North Carolina with like five keys. But they were watching him because he was from this area. So he was from this facet over here with his nine, nine ounces that I get from these Spanish guys. Yeah. So he got knocked off because they're kind of watching him. This side went through. So Patriot comes.

So Patriot comes and I hear they're trying to get a warrant for me. But they can't. So they went to four different judges. They couldn't get a warrant. And this is feds or state police? So it's the feds. Okay. And the feds and local.

So the feds were the first ones on the case. And then the town got in it. But the town, Milville, where I was living, they weren't. involved at all because they thought I had them on payroll. So it was the state police, the feds, FBI, DEA, and state. And how are they tipped on you? Just it is, I didn't even, I had, I drove like a fucking piece of shit explorer. Yeah.

I fucking lived in a rental. It's like, I was just stacking cash. And so, and all the cash is cash. Cash. We're stashing it in stash houses and shit. All over, yeah. Just random place, the attic here. My, I did some of my dad's house.

The fucker found it. Your dad found it. He found my drugs too before. So I would So my dad would be out I would walk Not with a lot Like three or four ounces

I'd leave there like New Year's Eve All my guys were like Yo I need a half ounce You know We're all part of New Year's Eve So I'd rather give it for me

Because I know it's good If you don't mean like So I'd like Stash everything at dad's house I was close You know it was close You know And I'd go in his basement

And I had a There was a duct work I took the vent I put it in there I was thinking he wouldn't find it Well that psycho motherfucker saw my footprints in the carpet in the basement

and it was like, look around, what the fuck's he doing down here? And he found it. So he took that. Then when he found the money, he found his stash of cash. I had hidden, he had like in the extra room,

like did he never went in. I stuffed it in the cushions of the couch. He found it and kept it. You know, he's a scumbaggag like that. I mean, he kept it. Like,

he took it. He flipped it? No, he just kept it. I don't know what he did. What he just kept? He said, it's in my house, I'm taking it. Do you think he was like?

He probably, He'd probably party a little, but yeah. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm doing meth in the basement. Yeah, this was 10, 15 years later, but yeah, I'm sure. And you don't get pissed at him? Like, yo. Well, he's like, you don't do that in my house.

You know, he tried to be the fathered year. You can't bring that shit to my house, blah, blah, blah. Like, fuck you. And I walked out. I thought he was going to follow me. He's like, nah, he didn't follow me. Never gave it back. Wow.

But. And he got the cash, too, and he got the cash to him is fucking. He married a chick that was a crackhead. She sold her presidential Rolex and, yeah, like, crackhead. because he was fucking he was 50 and she was probably 26 you know and she's been a half how much money you think he he lifted off you that time oh 15 or 20 000 probably i had where i stick in the cushions of the couch so you know how like when he's unzipped the cushions so i'm sticking the middle there he never went in this fucking room i have no idea i found it but like i said he saw

the footprints in the carpet in the basement where i was just walking and looked at wisy down here. So he's not, my father's not dumb, you know, but the paycheck. So the paycheck, so I was under 24 hours surveillance for 18 months and I didn't know it. But I went to 7-11. One of my shipments didn't come up, didn't get here. So it was like three or four days late. So I go buy a track phone. Remember those fucking things? I buy a track from 7-11. Yep. Open it. I walk out seven. I remember it's like yesterday. I walk out of seven. I'm ripping his fucking phone open. I'm putting a SIM card in. You know, I bought a prepaid card from 7-11. I make one phone. call, I crashed, I smashed the phone and thrown on trash. And all my phone calls says,

yo, that never got to figure out where it is. I was calling my guys in Florida, my Italian guys. And they go, oh, yeah, yeah, you know, they're telling me. But that's all that was said. And three or four days later, I see a undercover car. Like, and the first time I've ever seen anybody, like, just drive down my street. I'm like, that's weird because I lived on like this backstreet. But again, I've been doing it so long, you get to a point where what is it? You know, like, it doesn't matter. Nothing doesn't matter, but you're complacent. I mean, you just think, like, fuck, I'm doing, like, this shit's like, I'm not nervous.

I'm fucking. And then when I dig it ready, they're like, this is how we got you. And the feds had a box. It was like the size of, like a tissue box. And they were filed. I was under surveillance, 18 hours, 24 hour, a day surveillance for 18 months straight. Taping your phone. Every phone I talked.

If I grabbed your phone right now, they could take it and listen. And they would find. it somehow. They found that conversation. That's how I got a warrant from to raid me. From the one trap phone not connected to you at all from the 7-Eleven saying, yo, where's the shit? Yep.

That's how they got to- Wow. And what year was that? That was 2000. I made a phone call 2003. I got raided in 2004. And so you were running your game from 1990, 1991 to then. To 2004-ish.

Yep. Whoa. And so in that time, how much money? money do you think like you accrued do you have like a number on that i couldn't even tell you because you know what i know during football we made him i had a million in safe at one time and my buddy and i lost it all playing blackjack and casino in a year in less than a year and that's just like the blackjack money that was just well it was money that we put in a safe from you know like we make money i put in a safe it was a safe we had access to my buddy tom and i you know like he was he had he did

some shit for us and we took we were just that's why i don't gamble like we were gambling insane. I'm driving a Porsche through the fucking tolls on the way home from Lank City because I was so fucking broke I didn't have 35 cents to put in the toll booth. Because I was coming back to get more money to go back down to go to, then come back and go to work at 7.30 in the morning. Whoa. It's fucked up.

Wait, so how do you lose a million playing blackjacket? It took six months probably, but just chasing the fucking devil. But you like gambling a little bit then? No, I didn't, I never get to, I don't, I like money. And the thing is, I don't like, I guess maybe

I did like gambling then, but I was like, I got this. There's no way we can lose this and not get it back. Like it was a mindset, like, we got the mill. We got to be, if we have a half a million left, we'll be all right. Because we want a couple good runs, we're good. It just never happened. Like, it was just something was just not in the air. But you liked Blackjack specifically?

Blackjack, yeah. It's the best odds in the casino, you know, for us, you know, against the house. You know, they only have like a 3% edge. Right. Like, I don't play the carnival games, anything like that. I want whatever my best, my best chance to win. Damn, a mill on blackjack. Come on, bro.

Who, fuck are you telling? Listen, I looked at, and the thing is, it didn't even really hit me until you look in the safe and there's nothing there. Right, because it's like a thousand bucks here, 10 grand here. We would take 10, 15 out.

And you'd probably win in some nights and lose. I don't really, honestly, and I was thinking about it said, I don't remember winning. Come on, bro. My boy, Tom went down there and probably lost 30 grand one day, and I was up probably 30 or 40,000.

I think we lost all that, too, and came, we dropped it 100 grand one day. and I know I don't remember winning ever airship. It's straight facts. And I would never do that. If I go to a casino tomorrow and I lose four or five hands a row, I quit. But back then...

Is that fucking... You liked gambling back then a little. I had to. I mean, but it was a money thing. Like I said, I want that safe stuff back in. Because I know... It can't only be a money thing if you're losing the money and then still going back. I was chasing that.

That's the chase. And that's what I don't like. Right. I want, you know... But that's how you know, Like when you were saying the degenerate gamblers, like they will, they want that when they're going down. They want that. Yes.

That's where the Russians is. And here, my feeling is I'm going to throw the fuck up when I'm losing. Like, you know, but they're not. Like, oh, don't. I was like, there's no way. I just couldn't figure there's any possible way we can continue to lose. You know, it's just, but it happened. And listen, but that taught me, though, I just, and, you know, I sat there.

I was like, you know what? We just worked all fucking year for this because it was after football season. Yeah. Where, you know, and I was like, we just worked all fucking year. and it's just gone. And like no time. Like, that's how easy it is

to get fucked up in that game. Yeah, of course. Because, you know, now, I mean, I can do it now

because I, you know, I'm pretty, I'm okay. But back then, like, you know, 50, 75,000 is hard to come by. And,

you know, you're blowing a million. Yeah. Like, what the fuck? And what was, what was making you more money at that point? Or maybe overall,

was it the gambling or the drugs? Well, so drugs, so I would make, so with the drug game, it was pretty easy. So this side I would make with like the nine ounces, 18 ounces that I would do like the local guys,

I would probably make five grand a week. Over here, I would make three to $4,000 a kilo that I would get rid of. So I didn't touch this. I just, I had the connection to another dude that was just like me.

And he's paying me 20. I'm paying 16. Or 17 to bring it up. Right. And there was no touch. Nobody knew this money was coming in. My girl didn't know. Nobody knew.

He would just drop off a bag and. that's it. Keep it moving. Yep. And that's, and so the Patriot comes. But then the gambling, how much money making from the gambling?

Gamble's good except the, so gambling, I was probably making a half million a year or better. So it was like 50-50? Like how much you would make from gambling versus how much you make in the drugs? Yeah, because depending on what went wrong. So yes,

because at the end of the day, you always, you lost money in drugs too if something went bad. Yeah. But so let's say it was probably 50, 50, 50, 50 each way with less stress than the game. I like the gamble. I love taking bets.

Yeah. You know. That's interesting. Yeah, it's just, you know, it's the house. I'd want a casino. Yeah. It's probably like safer. Listen, they don't fuck with you.

They do. I mean, so they would raid you. All the books would get raided in Philly Super Bowl. And these dumb fucks would be in their same office here all year. So the feds raid everybody in Super Bowl because it's the biggest bet in day the year. So they knocked down all the books that day. So we would be out of, we'd close our office two weeks before Super Bowl and be somewhere else they can bets to know. You know what I mean?

And the, problem is with I was the gambling part when you owed me money see getting paid is the hard part with gambling right with drugs they fucking steal rob whatever they got to do that's the difference between a gambler and like a drug addict like you get the junk in the street they're going to seven 11 and stealing fucking packs of cigarettes to sell the gambler's not because they're kind of it's a different it's a whole different like it's a different addiction yeah so what I would do if people didn't pay me if mark owes me 10 grand and you don't pay me through three weeks I'm like my man You got to do something.

Or I'm going to your job. I'm writing a boss a letter like, hey, can you let Mark out a worker other day because he owes me $10,000 from Betton? Or I'd send it to his wife, a letter to his wife. Hey, listen, there's any way you can help me straighten this out with? Because gamblers don't are embarrassed to say they gamble.

Especially if they're losing. If they're losing. They don't want their mom to know their kids, their boss. So that's what I'm doing. Like, my man. So I would send letters to their house. I'd call her wife. It was never violent.

there was one or two violent but not, I don't like violence. So if I have to, it's there. I'm not scared of violence. But violence doesn't get you. Listen, if I fuck you up, you're still paying me. Right.

I want the money. Yeah, yeah. But you've got to make an effort. Like, there's some, because if not, I'm going to embarrass the shit out of you, which is worse than violence because you're, you're going to heal.

But if I get you fire from your job, I'm never going to pay any out, but guess what? Now they know why you got fired. Yeah. That kind of thing. Yeah. So it's more of a mental,

I'm more of a mental violence. Warfare. Yeah. Like, I'm going to fuck with your head. Interesting. And so you would just write letters and then people would eventually get you the money back. Oh, yeah, because if, listen, when a wife would get involved, I could pay the next day. Yeah, the money should be back.

Yeah, the father. Yeah, all of a sudden now they got it. Yeah. They're taking out of their kids college fund. Interesting. Fuck, don't bet it. Right. I didn't make you bet.

Yeah, yeah. And then would you cut people off if there was like a couple times they'd be late and you're just like, hey, buddy. Yes and no. The problem is you, I always wanted to get back. Like, if they were only $5,000. I still let them bet, but I put a limit on them. So maybe it's a thousand. So if I drop a thousand, they can bet a thousand.

If they're down, $1,000, you're cut off to you pay me to $1,000 because you still owe me $5,000. Right. So I would work with you. As long as you make an effort. Right. You know, I'm saying, my rentals now. I mean, if I've got 100-something rental properties, don't not pay me because I'm going to put your ass in court, or I'm going to cut your water off.

Like, I'm the motherfucker. I'm a motherfucker. I mean, but if you say, hey, Dev, listen, I got $200. Come pick it up. I got you. You know, make an effort. don't let me come in, you got a new escalate in your driveway. Right.

And you owe me $12,000 for rent. Right. You know, so as long as you make an effort, I'm good. That makes sense. And so you're running both at the same time. Did the drug stuff ever go wrong? Like, you had like a drug deal go bad and you heard about a guy that you, your guy, your guy. No, because it was, no.

It was more like, not really. There was nothing, you know, I knew when I, when I was under investigation, I was playing softball somewhere somewhere somewhere, and there was a guy taking pictures in the woods. but I didn't know it. That's how dumb I was that I didn't think they were watching me. I'm collecting balls from, you know, BP, and I see this dude in the woods with a camera. He's like, oh, yeah, we're taking pictures for the local TV station.

You know, I was like, oh, that's cool. You know, like, I'm fucking, I don't fucking know. But they were filed. They were on a plane next to me. Like, my discovery was 40 file boxes, you know, that they brought on carts to my attorney's office. Wow. So they were flying.

When I'm playing softball over the country, they're flying next to me. And I don't even know it. Wow. Now, they've raided me. This is the best. Well, two things. Two weeks before I got raided, I'm driving down the road.

I'm all juiced up. They can fuck steroids out of mind, you know what I mean? And, yeah, no, listen, I love this. You're taking steroids for softball? Oh, yeah. Come on. Jacked out of mind. What are we talking?

Yeah, listen, these dudes are big. You got to look and look at it. So I'm all jacked up. And I called my boy as like, yo, I need nine ounces. And he's like, all right, yeah, I'll leave it in the car at his gym. So I came from my gym and picked up I'm coming back down to where I was, where I live. And it's back road.

Now, I never sped. I always made sure my cars, everything was right. All my paper was always right. So I had 50,000 D-ball, which are steroids, dinaball back then. Like people were taking their little pink stop signs and they're in a pound bag, but it's like, what's a gallon Ziploc bag? Whatever they call?

Yeah, I don't know what the real name, but they're in full. And I pick up nine ounces. And I have in the back of my, I have driving Explorer, had the back seat. So I'm driving on this road and I get pulled over. over. I see a cop. Actually, I see a cop. I'm calling the exact speed limit that you're allowed on the phone then. You know, so I'm on the phone. And I'm going to the speed and I see the cop there's just go by. No big deal. Like I'm fucking windows down, fucking sleeve a shirt on. Like, you know, fucking banning fucking dick. And his cop pulls me over. He's like, uh, license of restoration. Okay. Give it to him. He goes to the car. Now, at that time, my daughter's mother was dating a cop. You know, we weren't together. She did something like, he's busting my dick. But I know they can't search my car. I know they can't smell anything. I know I know anything wrong. So I'm No, they're not. And you don't have any products on you except the steroids.

I do. I have steroids in nine ounces of coke that picked up from earlier. But they can't get my car. You can't spell it. I got the windows down. It's middle summer. So then all of a sudden, another cop pulls up on the other side. Oh. I'm like, motherfucker.

Like, they're going to fuck me up. Like, because, you know, back then the cops just fucked you up. And there was no, like, you know what I mean? I was there after Rodney King shit. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, this dude, he's setting his guys on me. So I'm on the phone. I'm kind of like laughing about like this fucking mutt.

You know, like being cocky, whatever. So the cop comes out, he's like, how's your license? I was like, perfect. So my dad's an attorney. He's like, all right, well, get out of the car. I'm not getting out of the phone car. Fuck you. Not doing it.

Like, no. This motherfucker reaches through the car and tries to pull me out of the car. Put it in drive. Take off. So now I'm like, so, but this is how mentally strong I was, we'll call strong. I knew there was a pond, a mountain of the lake. but two miles on the road, I'm getting to the lake.

I'm dumping this shit in the lake. I know if they, nine hours I'm getting in trouble. Fucking, I'm getting this shit late. We'll figure it out later. You know, like,

they don't know. Because once you get in the water, that shit's a cloud and you're going. Right. So as I'm driving down, I don't speed. I put my blinkers on. All right.

But I'm grabbing the shit as I'm going. And so my boy had it in like, he had it in a Ziploc bag, but they had like four or five, you know, like the plaster of grocery bags. Yeah. Like the bodegga bags, the plastic bags,

You know, and I'm taking them. As I'm going around Benz, I'm throwing the bags out the wintertime. I'm trying to get rid of everything. But you can't see as it's coming out of my car, just the outside bags, not the coke. So I'm putting in my, I got a sleeve of shirt on tank top and some basketball shorts. So I've tucked my shirt in, put the drugs down my shirt. And the fucking D ball were in the whole thing, 50,000, these little pills. I put all down my shirt after I get it down to just one bag.

So now the cops have one of the road cut off. I go right around them. Well, dumb motherfucking me. Now they shoot you for that shit. You know, like, so I go right around them, get to the stoplight, make a left. The police station is right here. I'm going by the Malagos little bumble-fuck town, and there's fucking 30 cops there. I'm like, motherfucker.

Drive by, make it right, pull right up to the lake. Get out of my truck. Lily pads and all. Jump right in. Fucking lily pad sticking in my ass. Jump in. I dumped the shit out. You know, I made it.

I did it. I put my hands over All right, you guys win Like I'm not running Yeah They woke the shit out of me Like they beat the shit out of me They had me hogtied

So I had hair back Like long hair in the front You know like if I was slicked up They're graved by the hair I'm handcuffed behind my back And my feet are cuffed I'm on a picnic bench And they're taking the tear gas

Right in his face You've want to run motherfucker With your chemically enhanced arms and shit You know they're talking shouts And I'm still kind of like talking shit But I'm not fighting them like I got out of the thing. They got their long guns.

I was like, you're going to shoot me. I know you're not going to shoot me. I'm like, what the fuck? I'm giving up. So I get to the police station. This, at that time,

that's how much of a dick I was then because I wasn't thinking that, so they tow my truck, I get to the police station. And I'm talking to, I'm trying to get the girl that's processing me to go out with me. Like, this cop was like,

listen, no worry, but I didn't do anything wrong. Because I knew they didn't catch the drugs and they're only charged me like some dumb shit. But then they're like, all right, bail's going to be 50,000. and if you don't get paid bail by 430, you're going to accounting for the weekend.

I was like, all right, what's the fast year ever seen anybody bailed out? Like I'm talking shit. You know? So I called me this check. I was like, yo, I need $50,000 bring it. 20 minutes later, she's there with $50,000. Right. So I'm thinking, at the meantime,

they give me my phones back, my two cell phones. So I'm like, one for work and one for play. So I'm like, I don't even think, like, it's just not making sense. But they give it back to it, but they keep my truck. Okay? So I'm like, all right, no big deal.

You know, I got my phone's back. I call my attorney. You know, he's got my Scotty. He's like, I tell him what happens. He's like, okay, no problem. You know, send me paperwork. I was all right. So I go to my house.

I clean my house out just in case. I got some steroids left there, like four months, a couple dollars in cash and a scale. Because I didn't want to have to scale. I got this big digital scale that was like from some tractor place. You know, like it was a big fucking digital. Industrial thing. Yeah.

So I had that in the house. So two weeks later, about two weeks later, I have my kids there. I hear my dog starts parking outside. Then I hear, boom, they blow the door off. They throw a fucking flash thing through my window in my bedroom. I'm balls-ass naked, right? I get a fall on the floor, get up, you know, like this, and they defedges fucking tore me up.

So they come in, they're taking my kids out with guns to their head. Of course, I'm the worst dude in the world. my kids are fucking like eight, six, and four. Damn. You know, their moms are going nuts. So, but I, I'm thinking that this is because where I ran from the cops. Like, they got a warrant to, right. And it makes sense.

And the charge is, you know, evading arrest or whatever. And so I'm thinking, no big, I'm still thinking no big deal, you know. Well, I always, like, I don't dress up, but I was, I'm together, like, jeans, sneakers, and a shirt. Like, I'm never, like, some Walmart shit. You know, I mean, like, I never, my shit ass a little good, you know. So they put me in, like, a gray sweatpants. and like some fucked up shirt and like two different shoes

like fucking with me, right? So I'm on a thing and all these cops are tearing the house up and they're asking me questions. The Fed's like, no, I just, I won't see my attorney. I hear it drr. They bring a fucking excavator

to dig up the backyard. So I'm like, what the fuck? But I'm still thinking, I still don't think this is a big deal. You know what I mean? Like, because I'm not putting this together because I'm thinking it's the evading. And you don't realize that they have

cases of evidence against you from... Right, at all. I don't know. So the Fed puts me in a car, this one guy, this fat guy. He's like, listen, let's just talk. I was like, what you don't talk about? You know, I didn't do any wrong. I don't know what the fuck you're talking.

I don't know what's happening here. You know, I played that fucking thing. So at that time, I had a girl living with me, but she was just as a friend. She was on the other side of the house. I had a four-bedroom house. Her and her son went the other side. They were there, too. They got fucking, and she arrested her.

Her name was Michelle. So I'm with the feds and instead of taking me and Michelle owned a real estate office, which was half-marked. from the thing on the main road of where my house was. So the Fed take me out and they make it right. I go by the office and the fucking DEA is taking the computers out of the office. I'm like, ah, fuck. Like, this might be a little bigger than I thought.

But I'm still not thinking it's the operation. I'm thinking it's from running and they somehow did it all together. I make it left. They have the staging station at the Rosentine Fire Department. But as I go around the corner at the light, I see the news fans with the fucking circular antennas in the air. I'm like, this isn't good. So I'm like, what the fuck? Are you stressed out?

Now I'm like, this shit's real. But I'm still like, I can beat it. I can beat it. They don't have anything. What the fuck? I know it didn't, you know. Well, get around the corner, I see fucking 30 people I know all my guys. I'm like, ugh.

And now what do you feel? Now I was like, fuck. That took the wind out of me. But I'm still, I'm not scared at all because I know I got good attorneys. You know, and I don't think I, at that time, I don't think I'm doing any. I know I was doing something wrong, but I don't think it's what it is. You think you're insulated. Correct.

Because I can't figure what they can have on me. Because I knew they had my phone tapped. You know, I didn't think so, at least, you know. So they get me in, and that's when Acon put that fucking song locked out on. Yeah, locked up. Locked up. Mother of fucker. Yes.

They played that for eight hours street as they were keeping people in. They're bringing people in. And I'm in there from like 10 to 5 o'clock in night. Just arrested sitting in a chair. I took 500 fingerprints. So then there was a bank robbery in my town. They tried to get me to say, I did it because I knew who did it. Because I knew what was going on.

Right. You know, so they're like, we're going to put the bank robbery. I was like, you can't put anything. Like, I see how people fold. Yeah. But if they thought about it, they should never fold. So then I see they arrest Michelle, right? This girl is, she's the most innocent motherfucker.

You'll never meet it. If you took her phone right now and you put fuck in her phone, it wouldn't even come up. Like, you know, like you search fucking our text messages. She's, yeah, zero of zero. And so she was never involved with any illegal. She's never seen drugs. She's never seen a bet. Nothing.

But they arrested her because I was working for her at the real estate office and she was close to me. Right. So they said she can figure out and tell me. So I get in, then they just start giving me charges. Kingpin, Rico, blah, blah, blah. I mean, I probably 50 charges. I'm like, no problem. I said, listen, and I'm talking kind of like, told me, I got good attorneys.

I'm not worried about it. You know? So they take me, they separate us. so they put me in Salem County and everybody else the arrest went in the Kremlin County they take me to Salem County

which is a federal holdings facility that first night still not nervous I don't know why I just I don't know if it didn't hit me it was more emotional disassociation but I yeah exactly

and I fall asleep they put me in the side and go sleep I even put my the shirt the orange shirt over the light because they leave light on for like suicide and shit

I'm not going to fucking kill myself you fucking clowns I'm gonna be out of here in two weeks I'm gonna be out of more you know they're like your best half me in cash only. I'm like, okay. So they wake me up. They take me out a few times. They question me. Like, they want to know information. I'm like, I don't know anything. I don't know. Like,

you're this, you're that. It's not me. So my attorney gets there probably 5.30 in the morning. Now, I didn't make a phone call. I made one phone call because I was, I was hooking up with the girl in the sheriff's office for a few years before I got arrested. So I was like, you know, I need a phone call. So I had called. Who the fuck did I call? Oh, I called my daughter's mom That's the only phone for like 30 seconds So listen, this happened It's like we know it's all over the news

The whole thing Oh, it's all over the news and everything So Scott DeClaudeo is my attorney He's a big Philly attorney at that time So he comes down He's like dude They're just fucking with you because you're white You know like this is you know

This whole thing You know Yeah as a white kid You know in a nice neighborhood You shouldn't be you know So they put us half million dollar me It's like a bigger story I guess Yeah like you should know better

Kind of attorney Yeah, Kingpin. Yeah. So they called Operation Deal Breaker because I was always like, let's make the

fucking deal. Like, so they're listening my phone calls. Like on the phone that's what you're saying. I'm always saying on the phone, let's make the deal

but real estate and everything else. Because I didn't talk bad on my phone. You know, like there was nothing drug-wise that went on my phone

because it was all like just deals. Deals. Yeah. And so he says, I will get a reduced, you know, don't worry about it.

It's super high. I've never seen we've seen a lot worse cases. And they had no evidence. They had no drugs on me, none. I didn't get called any drugs. So I was sitting there in probably three days to go for a bail reduction. Judge says no, and you have a no contact with any of your code offenders.

Well, these are only people I talk to my life pretty much. You know what the fuck do you mean? No contact. So, all right. So it goes, they won't reduce the bail. So finally, after 15 days, I get bailed out by, I get bailed out by my family, bails me out for half a million. So now it's like, so I get home, everybody's, I have great support.

Like my mother was there. Like she was upset, but she was like, we'll take care of, you know, whatever we got to do, that kind of thing. Now, my dad was, you know, my dad, he's, you know, still being like, ah, you get your dickhead. But, you know, but he was also on my side. Like, you know, that's when he came through kind of, you know. That's nice. And, yeah, so I, I'm working in Philadelphia at a bar.

What do you mean working? like bouncing part-tent, like after where I got in trouble, because I had nowhere to go. I had to have a job. Okay. Because, like, I couldn't do real estate anymore because he took my real estate license right away. I was selling real estate at time. So my buddy, you know, had a security thing. And while I was bartending and doing a bar, one of my co-defendant walks in, shakes my hand.

Now he comes there. Okay. And he got bailed out also? Yeah. But he got bailed out. He was probably in there a lot longer. He had king been charged, too. It was the other guy.

They said it was like in the head of the thing. So I'm like, all right, you know, but no problem. But he comes to me. I don't search him out. He comes to my bar. Well, I'm going home that night, and I have a condo in Philadelphia on the water. So I'm going to pick up this girl because I don't want her parking her Honda at my condo because, like, you know, I put that piece of shit. I'll pick you up and bring you to the condo.

You know what I mean? Like, just be like, well, I should have fucking let her come because I'm get over the bridge in the Jersey. I'm going to the off ramp. I get pulled over. What the fuck? They search the car. I'm on the side of four hours. they let me go.

So I end up going home next day. And home at this point again. In Jersey. Yeah. And I go home, you know, they fuck my car. Didn't find anything at all. Five days later, they violate my bail for contact with my co-defendant. So that was Thanksgiving Eve.

He came there. I'm sorry. So all over Christmas, I was back in county jail. Damn, just because you talked to your co-defendant. Because he came in. So they set him in there to do that, though. And that's really all. he said to you was like

he's like yeah we're gonna be all right there was nothing at all wow that's how crook how because they didn't want listen you can't fight a case and how do they find that out that he said something they told him to come there to jam you up

and he told you that after like damn and why did he do that I don't know because then motherfucker went shot a dude in the face and got life in jail anyhow so he's a fucking idiot yeah damn but so they give him a better deal I don't know what the deal was because before it all got over, he shot this dude.

Whoa. But they only, so I got, so they're initially all over 80 with 40 year sentences. And ended up getting a 20 with a five year stip, which means you have to do five years, minimum. And so, but there's no, you don't know when you're getting out. You have to do five years, but you could do on 20 years. So let me go back. The feds had the case.

The state sued the feds to get the case because the federal powder cocaine is a 10-year sliding scale. never been in trouble. Anyway, so I would have done three years and at boot camp I could have been out like a year. If it was a Fed. If the fed's kept it. The state said, we've been chased this motherfucker

since he was in high school and I'll send you the video. I have the court in video. I have the video of the court case in video when the prosecutor was like, Mr. Riley's been selling drugs since high school, gambling. I have the video, right?

So they say, we go to court, the feds lose, the state picks it up. Now I get Kingpin charged, which is life with a 25-year minimum. And that's a state charge. Yes. Wow. So I was charged with Rico and Kingpin.

So the state picked up a 25-to-life-charge Kingpin if I go to trial, and the RICO's 20 years. And why is it Kingpin? Just because I had, they called a criminal operation. So, like, the RICO is if you do, if you sell drugs and you buy a business and you launder your money through, you have two different things together. Right. The Kingpin is just the amount of drugs that they got, that they had on. Wow.

And do you know what the number or the amount of drugs you had that they got you for? No, they only got me on 40 kilos. 40 keys. On the phone call for 40. That was just the one call. The one phone call, that's all they had. Because all the other calls. They had all the other calls recorded.

But there was nothing telling anything like. So they couldn't prove any of the other ones. Wow. So then my right. So I was, right before I got raided, I was getting out of the drug game. Like I was going to take bets and do real estate because real estate was crazy and I love bets. Were you really going to get out of the drug game? 100%.

I hate drugs. To this day. drugs. But the money though. Yeah, but I could make it in gambling and I was in okay spot. You know what I mean? Like I made enough that I made up and I was 32. It's not worth the risk now. Right. Now I'm good. I'm 32. I can fucking start driving big Mercedes now like you know like and I'm gonna give it all to you. I'm still gonna make money. Right. But you're gonna pay me I'm gonna charge you're gonna pay me a thousand dollars each key you sell to me. Right. But I you're gonna have the connection. I want nothing to do it. I want you leave me a

fucking envelope. I'll just be the bank. That's it. No, no no. I don't even want to be bank. I want an envelope. If you buy 20 keys, you owe me 20 grand. And wait, why would you get paid? Because I'm giving you my connection. You're just getting paid for the right-hand dude. So you're basically giving the business to him. Exactly.

And I was just going to keep the gambling and do my real estate stuff. Gotcha. Well, end up, he's the one that ends up telling on me. He's the one to put the whole case together for him. So this dude, Keith, he, I knew him since high school. He was working for him to high school. Okay. Italian, Rosetti's last name.

And he, so he, he, so. he gets charged and he gets charged with a second degree, which didn't make sense at first because he was my right hand dude. Second degree. Drug charge. Gotcha. Which is a max 10 years. You know,

so let's say seven, you know, it's five to 10, you know, but you go first time, you do like 18 months. That's it. So I'm like,

why do you get that? So a lot of shit's going on between this time. And you're in jail for this. I'm out. I'm out. No, I'm out. I was bailed out.

This is between, This after bailed out. This is after you got bailed out for contacting the... Yes. Yeah, yeah. You got bailed out again. Twice, yep. Yeah.

Damn. So I'm trying to figure out. So I'm going... This time now I was just playing poker and working a little bit. I'm driving... I buy a navigator, okay? And I see one of these fucking Chevy Caprice, whatever you are behind me. So I pull into a gas thing.

This one, they still have pay phones. And I call me down. I was like, yo, they're fucking following me again. Like, I don't know why. Okay? I'm going to pay phone to fucking. to fucking, they come over, they act like I'm fucking bin Laden. They're coming over to curb arrest me again for the third time now.

What I get charged for the third time is, fourth degree tampering with evidence. While I was in jail, I called my daughter's mom and said, hey, listen, delete my email. But I wanted them to do that because I wanted to look at that email on another one. So I did on purpose. Oh, really? But the fourth degree, they could just send me a charge.

They got fucking kingpin charges. A fourth degree is nothing. $25,000 cash only bail. for a fourth degree charge. Somebody fuck. Come to find out, Keith was working with them. So he spent

60-something hours as I get discovery riding around, not just telling on me, telling everything he knew. He didn't get a deal. He did it before he got a deal. He still ended up

with a fucking second-degree charge. Why did he do this? He said, God told him to do it. Oh, really? Yeah. So let's fast forward. I come home.

I see Keith. Oh, let me be. go back better. We go to sentencing. So in the video and I said to you got to watch it. For his sentencing, they're talking about how good of a witness he was and how much he told on, you know, if it wasn't for him, we could have beat the case because they had a phone call. And I was ready to beat the case. I paid for his attorney. He took the 30,000 I gave him, put in his pocket, got some fucking scumbag for five grand to tell him me and kept the money. So, so, so that's all going on. You know, so Jamar,

his people were junior black mafia or whatever it might be. They came and saw me like, yo, Rosetti's telling. They knew. I was like, I don't, let me, you got to get rid of them. I'm like, oh my, here it goes. My attorney calls me. He's like, I don't give a fuck what you do.

You better take your money and keep a priest next to you because if anything happens to Rosetti, you're getting, it's you. They're coming after you. They want you because they put a newspaper that he was testifying. Yeah, buy a bodyguard for Rossetti. You got to take care of this kid. I got to keep him alive now. Yeah. Because if he goes, I'm getting a murder charge.

Yeah, if he gets in a car accident. I cut the brake lines. Like, that's how they're going to do it. So, come. Whoa. So now this is a, this is a whole thing. So he just fucked this whole thing. Are you stressed at this point?

I was only stressed because I was waiting for the second indictments to come through. Because I want to, I want to know, I'm a guy that I want to see one of fighting against. I don't like the blind shit. Yeah, you still don't really know exactly. No. You know it's King Pin, Orico, but you don't even know. The trial hasn't gone through. And no, because I didn't.

So we're getting all this. We have, you know, they have 40,000 hours of recorded phone calls. We got to go through every one of them. That's a lot of money. Dude, so, you know, I got a quarter million attorneys already. So I'm like, so they start throwing deals my way. Anyhow. So, you know, that's when they through to 80 to 40 first, 80 years with a 40-year minimum.

Can't do that. I'm not doing. I'm out of this bitch. I'm running if I have to on that shit. Right. So got until 20 and 5, and it was only nine months before, from when I got in trouble to went to prison because I want to get it over with. Like, listen, you win.

You get, I definitely do on time. I don't know what my back end is, but I know five years, it seems like a long time, but I can, I'll be all right. So that's why I took that deal. So we go to sentencing, they put Rosetti in my cell. After sentencing, they're down fucking in prison. That's fucked up. Like, they wanted me to off this dude the first day so they can keep, so their whole intention was to get me here to make me fuck up. They intentionally put you in jail with him, with him.

he didn't get a deal. The same sentence he would have got if he didn't say a word is what he got for telling on me and everybody else. So you walk in a cell. And I see this motherfucker. I give him a...

So I paid... So I knew the people who ran the jail, the county jail. So I gave them a duffel bag before I went in because at then you could wear like sweatpants, your own shit. But you had to wear it in.

So I went to court in a suit. So I gave him sweatpants, you know, a couple of sweatpants and socks and shit that they had so they had the duffel bag waiting for me when I went to the county jail. So I had a... bag so I said here do here some sweatpants get comfortable that's what I did for him so I come home

this fast forward I do five years I get out I get my first I get out first time I buy the houses next to him and across from them within the first year being home motherfucker you live in half doubles I buy them just so you know every day when you walk outside you see like that motherfucker owns those houses whoa so that's what I do instead of fucking you know and so you when you sit down to sell with him you don't do you talk to him do you like ask him to be my friend and I know because I didn't know anything. You know, you're, it was almost like, I know what's happening here. Like, you just, they set me up. Like, the average weak minded individual was going to kill him in the cell. Right. Yeah. That's what they expect you to be an idiot and go and beat the shit

of him. And you don't know what he's telling him. So I know no threats, no nothing. It's said, here, man, here's some sweatpants, put him on. That's it. Wow. So I knew, but eventually, listen, you know, it all come down. I mean, you know, he's sitting there doing nothing and then, you know, right. I'm all over. Yeah, yeah. So it's just, you know, That's the kind of shit that like I think that you know we talked earlier about the emotion part That's what kept me that's what keeps me strong too in that those situations because you were probably angry Listen they said the prosecutor said he got sentenced he I was last sentence He was last sentence the process the prosecutor says if it wasn't for Rosetti they could have walked from the case and now you're face-to-face with him

With a 20-year fucking sentence and there's no the cops probably aren't gonna help him out because they want you to beat him up Yeah 100% because you beat him up and now you're in jail for life because it wouldn't stop. Like, if I would have put my hands on, I wouldn't have stopped. But you were able to kind of keep it together. Just put it away. You know, like, that's, that, that was the good part of all the emotion part. I don't, I don't deal with emotion.

So emotionally, I should have fucking got him right there and I didn't. I said, I got you. Wow. You know, I'm going to, I'm going to be better and I'm going to do better. And you can never do what I do. Wow. You know, so that's the arrogance kind of like in me that I know that I'll be all right. But it's also like the strong men.

mentality like I'm okay like you're not gonna be and I'm gonna be every day I only get lucky once you I get lucky every day Whoa I mean that's wild and so that's after sentencing yeah so we sentenced we all went to sentencing together same day in court November 17th or 18th and he got sentenced and I got sentenced to 20 years with a five-year step Because I made a plea you know plea deal so what exactly does that mean So I had a 20 years so my max was 20 years okay so I had 15 years on it on the on the on the The kingpin charge got reduced to first degree, which is a 15-year sentence with a five-year minimum mandatory. Then I got leader of organized crime, which is another five years that got added to

to run consecutive instead of concurrent. So that made it a 20-year sentence with a five-year stip. So the max in state on 20 years is 13 years, eight months, with good time. So that's if you get good time. So that's an open sentence for me. So I can't fuck up in jail because now I don't get out five. I get a charge. I don't get out five years now.

I mean seven years or seven, nine years. Right. And then if you fuck up again, it just keeps adding up. So I can, I could potentially, the day I went in, I could have done 15, 16 years if I didn't know what I was doing. You know, if I didn't, you know. But I had a gameplay. Like I said, listen, it was a game. Right.

You know, in prison, I never got in trouble in prison. I mean, I did a lot of bad shit. Do you remember the first day? I do. So. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because you need to take the bad out of your habits. Yeah.

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day for day. You want to start getting comfortable if there's such a thing in prison. So he, I paid the guy. I was out probably 10, 12 days. So they put you on a list. And you go to Kraft, which is central reception of facility. And that's in terms. And that's in terms of Trenton. Okay. And that's, I think, I think the diesel therapy, which is on the back of the bus, feeling sick as fuck with this fumes. Yeah. And they just drive you around every week to a different... Well, no, this is just going to reception. So they, where they classify you. Okay. But because of my crimes and the people I was associated with, I didn't ride with everybody else. They took me separate. So to go to Trenton is about an hour ride. It took three and a half hours because we went back way, helicopter over. It's fucking in.

I'm like, bro, I'm not trying to escape. But they had van. I was in vans in a bus. Two other people on there. Everybody else was in like the unit put 50 on a bus. Helicopter follows a whole way. We went every back road around. I think close to four hours you get to Trenton

because they thought I might escape. Fuck, what makes you think I'm escaped? You got me. You never had any intention of escape. Fuck. Listen, I'm getting five years of coming home. Yeah. That's it.

And I'm going to make it. So we get the craft. And everybody that thinks about doing a crime should do this go to craft. I swear to God. So it's November, maybe December, 1st of December. Cold as fuck. There's, we pull up and there's two other buses there with people. And they're just, you know, we're handcuffed and ankle cuffs.

And they put you in this, like, building and just up steps. Take all your clothes off. Your balls ass naked, ass the dick with everybody in the motherfucker. probably three, 400 people up to steps. Freezing your dick off. It's outside, you know, it's in the stairwell of this craft. And it's fucking freezing. And you have to be, you're this close like, hey.

And you don't want to talk to anybody. You fucking, you know what I mean? Like, you're like, fuck. You know, so that's when it got, this is real. You know? So then you get you in a shower, and the shower is probably the size of the studio or a little bigger. There's probably 50 guys in there you take a fire hose and they fucking hit you with

this bug juice because, like, the license shit, they don't want to spread them. So they spray you this Then they give you a paper suit And you sit in a fucking cold ass L for three days With no shower anything As a bug juice kills everything on you Well I go in I was probably 315

I probably 15% body fat You know Before I went to prison I took every fucking steroid I could find Yeah just juiced I'm like You know When I was in the county

Like damn how long you've been down You know I was down 20 years Like nah it's coming in up But I was fucking juice I'm losing a pound a day Because they're only giving me 1,200 calories

Right in craft. I'm in the middle, no TV, and I'm just losing weight and just fucking, that's when I'm like, man,

what the fuck am I doing? Yeah. So, was that like the lowest point at that, of that point in the process? Of the process, yes. So then they send me,

so what they do is they call cereal on the bars. You go to a classification group. They put you in like, you know, they say family, your crime, da-da-da-da.

You know, they try to keep you close to your family. So they sent me to, there's in Cumberland County where I live, there's three prisons. There's Southwood, Southern State, and Bayside.

Okay. And like Bayside, they say it's easy, you know, but it's all, I know these guys. So I'm good there, either wherever I go. And I'm taking, I was giving loans to all these guys. Like, I knew a lot of prison guards because they're in the town. I mean, that's what the majority is. It used to be glass factories now as prisons. So I know these guys.

So they send me to Bayside. And it's probably, they're probably a month. They call cereal and bars. So you put the cereal in a bar. that means you're leaving that day. You're getting on the bus to go to your prison. Which is good because, like I said, you had nothing. You were just locked down 24 hours.

There was 24 cells. There's TVs on both ends. And that's, you had nothing. So I go to Bayside and I'm there. And now I'm feeling good. I know everybody. Like, I know the cops. I know a lot of the guys.

And I mean, and the second day I'm in the gym. Day four or five comes. They're like, I get called in like four in the morning. like the captain's like, you gotta go. What the fuck? I was just in the gym yesterday. Like, they had a nice gym there. Yeah.

He's like, you know more people here and I do. You're a threat. You're going to Southwoods. It's all right. Like, that's kind of fucked up, though. I pull into Southwoods. So they put me in the van, transportation. I pull into Southwood.

There's another prison in the Commer County. The lieutenant comes out and says, he's not allowed here. They said, if you want to tell on the, because they had all these phone calls to record people calling me from the prison. that I wouldn't cooperate and wouldn't say who it was. So I had probably 40 different people from that prison

that would just call me because they were in my town. Hey, listen, I need a loan. Put a bet in because they're working Sundays. Put 50 hours on. And so they wanted to know who the voices were. And if I didn't cooperate, it didn't matter who they thought it was. They didn't have evidence. It was them because it was coming from their phone.

But they had it recorded because of the things. So they sent me to Riverfront, which is in Camden. Now, Riverfront is, though, because I had such a big, number on the 20 is it life one of the life are prisons like there's a lot of guys with life and shit so i go there i'm all right i get a job as a teacher's assistant right that's when fuck so everybody in there these motherfuckers have never worked a day in their life they all want to go to work because it's something to do like oh my god i don't want to work yeah yeah so i get a job as a

t-a so i'm in there like these dudes and it's a shame man that there's so many people that just can't read or write like it's terrible you know yeah and so i i meet up with this this teacher, she's cool, like civilian teachers coming in, you know, we're cool. And the prisoners get jealous is the problem. So there was a guy there, Cameron, his name was, but he was the rabbi that got his wife killed and he was there, but he was like one of the snitches. So the gay guys and the child molesters were the snitches in the thing. So they were protected by the guards.

Right. Like they're the ones that told everything that was going on. So what I'm told me, that was fun. fucking this teacher. I hate the civilian teacher. Like, she would bring me food once in a while. Like, so I get arrested. Were you fucking that?

Well, I mean, that what they said? What do you mean? So, listen, here's the story. They, so they come, they run down my room. Okay. Get it, you know, internal affairs hits me. It puts me in lockup. Okay.

And, you know, puts me in, we call jail. So it's lockup. You know, so they throw me, and they'll tell me anything. And I see them walking her out in cuffs. So the internal affairs comes and say, listen, we got your DNA on the desk. We know you're fucking her. I said, first of all, she's married.

Secondly, I never fucked her on her desk. Right? Just like that. I said, so you're lying. So you don't have evidence. They left me in lock up 72 days. 72 days? Three showers. So were you ever alone with her?

Yes, because I had access to the whole, the whole. So listen, I had them, I was showing them stockplace, all the teachers in there. I'm making them money. I'm showing them stock plays. Like, I'm showing them teaching them how to do the stock market because I was into that stuff. Like, these, they do nothing. I'm showing stock plays. Her husband, I knew, was taking loans from another one of my guys.

So I kind of knew, like, there was a whole tied-in thing here. So I wouldn't, since I wouldn't tell, they left me a lockup for 72 days. And she lost her job. And so I think I was even named in divorce. I don't know. I mean, you smashed. I mean, there's a chance, you know. Hypothetically.

Allegedly. Who knows? Who knows? But how would they have found out if you... Because somebody else told, and then the average person is going to fold after 20 days in lockup, like, yeah, I fucked her. Even if he didn't, they're going to say he did. Because they wanted to charge her. Like, they wanted to ruin her. Because, you know, I think it's a big thing. Like, you know, a civilian coming in, you know, with access and, you know, it's a big thing. I'm not letting this chick lose her. I'm not going to lose her life.

She might have lost her job, but not... She didn't deserve anything. So I'm not going to tell you anything. What the fuck? I'm not getting anything out. I don't tell. These guys tell for no reason. So I see her walk out. I leave. That's when it got real because I'm in there and like I said, three showers, a Bible and one sheet on a metal bed.

72 days is brutal. Dude. After 20, I'm counting the, you know, the center blocks have the divets in them. I'm counting the divots. After 40 days, I'm talking to the toilet. You really start to go crazy. But I'm talking to myself because I'm talking myself like, you're going to get through it.

You know, like I'm strong mental like that. Like, you're going to get through it. throw it. 72 days, solitary. With only three showers? You're going to go crazy. Yeah. So I'm starting to lose my mind.

Rick comes through. No phone calls. I got a letter out to Rick. I stepped out. I stepped out. I was like, look, I don't know how long I can deal with this. Like, if I ever thought about doing something bad, it was then. After, I mean.

That's the darkest point. I mean. By far. I mean, it was just, you know, so finally, they came and asked me like every day. They would come because they were going to press charges. She would go to prison for doing that. And so the internal affairs His name's Riggs.

You know, I ran the football pools in prison. Mm-hmm. Like the betting, the book. Yeah. So I had food, fucking cigarettes everywhere. So he said, all right, you know, you're, so Rick comes, I'm sorry, I wrote a letter to Rick. You know, I was like, listen, this shit is bad.

You know, because he couldn't, he would call every day to find out I got out. But they're like, he's inside. He gets no visits. I get nothing at all. You can write letters sometimes. Sometimes. If the fucking, you know, the pens there are very,

soft like they're the plastic right so you can't kill yourself if you can't stabs right and the thing is you if you if your hands even get warm but fucking things bent you can't write so they suck so he hires robin lord a big hot shot attorney in that area a big criminal attorney takes it out I don't know took off his credit card

25,000 you know he never never never talked about it and she gets me out in two days of lockup wow so the internal Ferris guy comes to him's like you're leaving I said alright good where am I going he says northern state you get moved again yeah to northern State. Now, Northern State is the shittiest

prison. Probably on the East Coast. One of them is a gang's, it's gang prison. So this is not even in your area anymore? It's in Newark. Wow. Okay. All bloods, all gangs. They're sending me up there just to be motherfuckers. So I'm in the bus. I'm in transportation. I'm like,

I don't want, the cops don't even want to work in Northern State. Like, that's how bad it is. And you've been locked up at this point probably like half a year? No, I've been, uh, probably a year, a little over a year. So I'm in Northern. I'm going to North State and I'm like, I'm just going to walk in. I'm going to punch the biggest, blackest motherfucker I know right in the face.

Because I want to get out. I don't want to stay there because you die every day in Northern State. Like it's a terrible prison. Like you can Google it. There was a guy, Omar. I can't remember his last name is, but he video, he had a camera in there. Like video, you can see what Northern City really like. So I'm just going to, because they, now there's a conflict.

I'm, the biggest blackest blood, I'm punching. Like, I don't want to, but I'm going to because I want to be out. They got shipped me somewhere else. And what is the thought with that? How do you know to do that? Because that's the only way you get out. Like a fight, they separate you. If I go after a blood, then they got to get me out of a gang

jail. Because they're assuming you might be gang affiliated. Well, they're going to be killed because I just fucking punch the one of the leaders in the face. Yeah. Now, in Riverfront, they're the people I'm drawn to or they're drawn to me. So I was always cool with all the leaders of different facets and sets and things like that. Because you know these people in Riverfront. I know, like I said, or they knew me, you know, the Latin Kings.

I was doing business with Latin Kings and shit. So everybody knew somebody that knew me. So I was never, I was always left alone. The pagans had people that I know, you know. So I was really well off in prison that way. Like I never had, they never asked me to join a gang. Like, you know, a lot of people do. I never needed protection.

My first day and second day of urban front, I had to choke a Muslim out. And everybody left me alone. It's fucking child molester, took a swing out. And instead of, like, beating them, I just choked them out. And once you choke them out, they see it, not, like, knocked out. I don't know if you've seen people get choked out, like with a chokehold. And it scares the shit out of everybody. Yeah, yeah.

So nobody can fuck with me at all. But so I get to Northern State and I'm like, fuck. I'm going to have to blast somebody. I walk in to the reception and now the cops stole all my shit, all my personal shit, like from Riverfront. Yeah. You know, they-cars, whatever. Yeah, because I had cartons and cigarettes.

You know, that's just trade. That's just money in prison. And I walk in and the underboss of the Philly mobs in there. And I know him. He's like, come on, sit down. I was like, yes. Everyone else in the cell, he's out here, him and a couple guys from New York guys are all talking at a table. I was like, I hate to fucking lottery.

Wow. So we're in the same housing unit for a couple weeks. The feds get a call. The jail gets a call from the feds. Say you can't have them together. They're going to escape. The fucking windows are six inches wide. My fat head's not getting through there.

You know what I mean? Now, Mousie's a little dude. He might have fit through there, but not even. The fucking windows are that big. And there's a railroad tracks and went through prison. So they're like, you got to,

so they put me in gang unit in the thing. In dog cages, 23 and one lockdown. What is that? You come out of yourself for one hour a day. You eat,

you have 15 minutes to eat and each table like this is surrounded by cage. So only four people can eat at a table. You're one hour, do you go outside and play basketball

or handball or you shower. I always show to the shower. But you got to shower your boots on. Some shit breaks out. In the shower, like, what you? I'm not getting in a fight barefoot. Yeah, yeah.

Fucking, I mean, on dry land, no one can fight better than barefoot than Tarzan. Like, I swear to you're like, you know. But in the shower, you're fucked. So, you know, wearing boots. So Northern State, I got out of the gang unit after about a year. And I got sent to mid. That was high security.

And how did you survive the gang unit? Like, what was the strategy? I was a cell phone every week from the cops. It was dirt. They were crooked. So they knew one of my charges were good charges, like the drug charge. Right. You weren't a chomo.

You weren't. It wasn't violent, I guess. That would also not be great, probably. Well, they don't care about violence more than, you know, childs and, you know, like, get off me charges and shit like that, which is fucked up. I mean, you know. But I got out. So I went back to another classification because I didn't belong in fucking gang.

I'm not in Philly gang. I'm not in Philly gang. But because I had organized crime. charge, they said, oh, yeah, let's get. Plus, I'm sure the rigs from Internal Affairs in the Riverfront, like, put that motherfucker. Right. But you never had to swing on, like, a gang leader, nothing like that?

No, because I was always cool with them. Okay. Like, I was always cool with the bosses of everywhere. Right. And I, in prison, I tried to say, listen, I tried to talk to all of them. I'm like, listen, you dumb fucks can run this whole place. Instead of killing each other, like the sex money murder against this. Right.

Get together. Because they were like set tripping, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You're blood and your blood. Yeah, yeah. That's 10 bloods instead of five and five. You dumb fucks, don't kill one of them.

Get together and kill these crips and shit. You know what I mean? Because there wasn't a lot of crips back then. But different sets basically are different gangs. Yes, but they still fall under the same umbrella. The blood, you know, be something else, you know. So that never worked, but I was always, all the bosses kind of respected. You know, we had taught.

You were diplomatic. Yeah, 100%. And listen, they needed something. We ate together. You know, like, listen, we always had run in a football book. Or you remember the things I always have, here, whatever we need. And you would run the book even in the gang unit. Yeah, so I would take, yeah, so I would get it one of the guys to make,

they would take little piece of paper, probably that big, and just write all the games, you circle them, and they get it back to me. They put it in my window, my door. So, like, the people are working, like, clean, sweeping the floor, they pick them up for them, and I'd give them a pack of Newport's. And everyone would be betting cigarettes and food. Yeah, a dollar. So, you know, like a pack of bugleur back then was a dollar.

Newports were $6. Now I don't know how much the fucking things are But that was the cash back then, you know? And was anyone sending you money while you were in? Yeah, so my, I was, I was taking care of I didn't have a lot of money on the books, but I had enough. I never really needed anything.

My mom would send some money. Michelle would send some money. Like, you got food packages, like I'd buy food packages and things like that. So I didn't really needed money. But they would bring, you know, I always had a couple thousand in my house account. But I need $400 a week.

Because I need a new cell phone every week. Because your old cell phone get confiscated. Every week we lose it. You'd have to throw it away. They run down. And what are you using the cell phone for? I would just call home, call. You know, I would never call, like, my mom.

Anybody that was on my list, my visit list, the numbers couldn't match. So they were pulled up. Yeah. So I would talk conference call to this person. Gotcha. But the cops are so dirty there. They did 400 bucks. I mean, I come to visit.

I get 400 bucks in real tight, real tight, fucking boof. it or have a mouth and give it to the cop. You know, it depends on who it was strip searching me. Answer the visit. Next day. It's a cell phone. You slid it into my door. Wow. So I always had a phone. And that's the good thing about being such a bad prison.

Everybody's dirty. Right. Right. The worst. The prison is, the easier it is to break the rules and shit. Exactly. So I get to mid-mid security. That was high security.

I get to mid. And I meet up with I go, no, sorry, I have two years left on my sentence to five years. I go to the minimum camp. We're working, which now... That's great. I thought it was great. Yeah, I mean, you know, we're in bunks. You know, it's not, everybody's kind of cool.

I'm working at Totawa, which is a mental facility up here. I mean, Newark. And it was a good thing. I hooked up with a white cop. His name was Johnny USA called it, like, fucking absolute maniac. It's just a psycho. Yeah. Didn't give a fuck about it. I didn't care about it.

didn't care about the lieutenant sergeant. He's like, fuck you, suck my dick. So he's a cool cop. So I was like, so they had like number one and number two guys, you know, like they would run the jobs for him and then everybody else. So I had this number one job. Like I was, you know, I was this dude sat in the front seat. You know, I'm getting them fucking loans on the street.

I'm taking, you know, that kind of thing. Well, he retired. And then this black cop came in. Did not like me at all. So I'm like, this is going to be our problem. So he's going at me. So I'm like a year from a year and a half. from my parole hearing.

Like, I can't fuck up, but I'm now nervous because this cop's coming at me hard. And why's he going on you so hard? I'm a white dude. People respected me, and I didn't give a fuck. You know, not that I didn't care, but like... Were you a dick to him at him? No, I never...

Because I wanted to get along with everybody at that time. Like, like, I had an angle. I had a plan. You know, like, this is what we got to do. And... But he just had a problem with me because, like, the nurse liked me.

Or, you know, like, she was cool. So, I wasn't from Newark. I wasn't of blood. And this dude just had a problem. Now, so in men camp, it's fight night Fridays and lock up Mondays. So what that means is, if a cop want to fight you, no face shots, body shots in the shower. You fight a cop, whoever you wanted. They would come betting on you.

Like, the cops, in order to stay so fucked up, that the cops would come in from all the other compounds, Friday nights in the men unit, and they bet on the fights. Okay, so paint the picture. Like the shower, the shower room is 15 by 15. You come in, you know, and you had a problem with one of these cops earlier in the day. He takes his vest off. He fucks you up or you fuck him up. No face shots. The face shot, you go right to jail.

They beat the shit out of you. All body shots. Anything you want to do, you can't slim, but no face shots. They come in, pop, bop, or I can pick you. Look, I want to fight him today. And that's what it was. And cops would bet who's going to win. Cash.

so that's how crooked it is there did you ever have to fight? Every week I liked it You would get in there Oh yeah Yeah one of the cops So I got hit by a dude He was probably

Five nine Maybe five ten 180 pounds So hard I wanted to kill him He hit me just right in the kidney He's like I was like Oh my fuck I'm gonna have to kill this motherfucker Like dropped you loki To the knee

Yeah And he kept going And I didn't really like the dude either I finally I got him Because I got him in a corner Fucked him up But he dropped But then like

one of the cops moved to Cummila County and I see him in the gym like he's a good dude yeah you know so I would pick I want the biggest new dude in the thing because listen it's not face shots body shots you recover so I was in every week like I like that shit because you know

like you said it's not like in your face split now if you got mad at the cop if the cop fucked you up and you didn't get over by Monday they lock you up so that's you know that's why they called a fight night Friday and lock up Monday so any of these guys that had a problem getting fucked up

If Monday came you weren't over it You go right to you get out of the men You're going right back to the medium scary What does that mean get over it? Like you got mad Like you can't be mad you got beat up You can't have an attitude about it Correct

Like the cop sees you and he says something Yeah just be cool Yeah Because you don't want to go back to mid After you get the minimum You don't want to go back to mid level Does the opposite ever happen Like if you're fighting a cop

Did you ever have to fight the cops? Oh yeah A couple of them But there was never Most of my fights with the cops Were the cops were fun Like And why were they fighting

Like Just fucking gorillas. That's it. Like, that's it. You know, listen, they're all crook. They're just, you know, motherfuckers. Down the bank. Yeah. Like, they take their fucking vest off and fucking had their t-shirt. Let's go. Wack, whack, whack. I would have a cop come in. One of these cops

is, his mire's cool, motherfucker. He'd just fuck with me. Like, this one in the mid-cad, this is a medium camp when I started. Like, he'd cook, like, he'd cook and bring me food all the time. But he busted door. I stand up, whack, he just fucking started, well, I'm a motherfucker, you know, we wrestle. And it was just, it was never like,

I wasn't mad. And was it, was it love after like yeah yeah it was 100% like if I needed something he always he was always there and like after the fight like how would it end just like all right you win you got it or he I got it just kind of give up yeah yeah yeah it was probably you know it was a minute maybe it was just like pounding on the ribs and the kidneys yeah

and then you kind of just be like all right you got me yeah like yo enough I can't do it today yeah and then hug him and tell him yeah he's going and go go out I mean I got him a few times good they got me a few times good too but I got him I got him and then I got I got hit by like you said the smaller dude hard hard hard hard that's the only

I really like fucking felt it like because back then you don't push it your whole core is so strong they can pound on you it doesn't hurt because you know you're working out body weight shit all day so but that that's just the the way they work at that prison like that could wouldn't go on here because you know somebody's

gonna tell and they're gonna fucking internal affairs right but it's such a brutal prison like that's what I mean you can run a fight club and it's fun that's what it was these cops were making a couple hundred bucks in night betting on who was going to win the fight and then so they had two people fight and one the cop would say who won well yeah how was your record in there I only lost once

hey who'd you lose to fucking dude half my size just had a good shot dude listen yeah I mean it's just one of those things like I was bigger than most you know I mean he said average dude is 510 yeah yeah I'm 6 3 yeah I was 260 then I'm 270 so I was a little like but I was in better shape then so you know like I said I would pick the biggest dude that was just coming out of a block and I'd be his friend like I'd be cool you know this in here you need a phone you know

you like and you got respect for you from there, like out of the yard or whatever? The respect of people was always high in there. The cops, some of the cops just didn't respect us as the prisoner. Sure.

But that kind of sucks. Yeah. Because I'm like, my man, you're making $70 grand a year. Yeah. You understand? Like, we're the same. You know what I mean?

Yeah, you bleed just like me, motherfucker. You know what I mean? And they don't get that. So like when they'd run down, like they'd lay on the fucking, like they had us in water before running down our camp. they have like the puddles

they put us in the puddle face down because you have to put your head down if you had your head down they were fucking stepping their boot on your back of your face in the mud puddle so like that's the kind of shit like I don't like that shit yeah you don't like getting told what to do so like was prison difficult for that reason

no because I just follow I know what I'm supposed to do right does that make sense so I know what the game is I know how to play the game and I know my end game is I don't want to get a hit for parole so I get the halfway I was about nine months left which that was probably the most stress is the halfway house.

Because now you're tasting. You're so close. Outside world. Yeah. But I didn't go for my parole hearing yet. So my pro hearing is six months before my stip is up. So I think I got there 10 months. Now, I didn't do drugs running.

So I didn't have to do like the programming, that program and shit, which I don't think I could have made that. Like the, you know, I don't think I could have made the programs. What does that mean the program? Like the drug programs, like they do the 10, 12 steps or whatever. And they read these verses and start singing. It's like, I'm just. That's not you.

No, I just can't do it. You know what I mean? Like, oh, and this is one of the things if you do the program, then you can get out sooner. Yes. But I wasn't eligible because, you know, it's for the people to use drugs for the alcoholics and things like the 12-step program. I'm just... You were cleaning the whole way through. I was clean the whole thing.

Yeah, I never, you know. I don't believe in that. Like, if I want to stop something, I'd just stop it. For you, yeah, yeah. Listen, if it helps other people, I'm actually fine with it. But me, like, reading his book 50 times, they're not going to help me. Like, I'm going to go fucking nuts because of the book. But so maybe 10 months in, I get there and I start going at home visits.

So now I get a job. So I get a job at a real estate office. I go home on the weekends. Now it's getting nervous. Like I'm scared now because you don't want to go after you hit those streets again. You fuck up one thing. You go right back to prison. And I don't have a date.

So I'm working. I'm going. I'm taking a bus back and forth. I have like six months left. I go to parole. I'm like, if I was nervous, my asshole, I couldn't have shit a grain of salt. Because you just hear, you don't hear good shit.

Like, that's one thing in prison. Nothing's ever good. Yeah. It's always bad, you know. And so I'm there and I'm looking, and I'm trying to read the parole board. Like, there's three people, old Spanish, and two old white guys.

So, but I'm trying to read them. Like, I'm trying to figure, like, what angle I'm going to take here? Because, you know, like, it's all like, what's going to make them happy? But I know that the psychological. psychiatrist I had on my side. Why? Because I initially got interviewed by her when I went down, when I first got in trouble

and I was talking to her. And I was just like, you know, again, I know what to say and not to say. But I said, they asked you, what are you going to do when you get out? And I said, well, I'm going to go back into real estate. You know, like buying real estate, like selling real estate with a license, that kind of thing. And she's like, well, you know, why? I said, you know, because I like making the deal. Wow, fuck.

As soon as I said it, you know how you know you say something, but I'm like, man. because that's the same thing with selling drugs. Like, it's that high. Yeah. Because I still get, I still get happy when I signed a thousand dollar lease. Like, I still like that.

Yeah, it's the same thing. You know, I just like making, you know, making sure it goes through. So, but I'm looking. So I see the old Spanish lady. I see these two guys,

I'm like, I don't know if it's going to work. So, but I'm in my head, I'm angling it. Like, you know. So I get in and I sit down and the guy,

they try to, like, push you. But I know, you know, like, I got you. So I let them. You know, listen, I'm a pussy. So, you know, I'm sitting there like, they're like, so tell me what you did. You know, I was like, okay.

I sit back, you know, stand up straight. Like, I sold drugs. I fucked up, made bad decisions, you know, everything they want to hear that I think they want to hear. And they said, well, you know, you're just like, tire actress is here. Now, I know she gave me a good review because she told me she hates me because my IQ was hired and hers and I ran a drug game instead of doing something good. So they feel some kind of way about that. You took an IQ test?

Yeah, she gave me an IQ test. Oh, really? Yeah. And so she had all these things there. And she was the one that originally interviewed me when I first got, went down. So you go to her before you go to parole, too. So it's my second visit with her. And she's like, I just don't fucking like you.

By the end of the conversation, we're talking about real estate and how she's going to make money real estate. So I, like I said, I switched her. Right. But she still had a problem. She's like, she said, I have an advanced degree and you have a higher IQ than me. and you were selling drugs and stuff. I said, who made more money?

Just like that. You know, which kind of like, but I was also I wasn't going to give in to her, like, you can say what you want, but you're not going to beat me down.

Right. But I still know I had it. By the end of the conversation, I know, I said, so make sure you write me a good thing. And when we're going to get out, you know,

we'll figure out how to buy your houses, that kind of shit. So I'm sitting there, and they push me because they want me to react. You know, the pro, they want to give me a hit. Yeah.

So if you get a hit, though, you go back to prison. You don't stay in the halfway house. So you're only out in the halfway house like 16 months. The minimum hit is 18 months. So you go back to prison until you get time

and you're going to wait to get back in the halfway house. You're going to go through all the bullshit. Yep. So I'm sucking dick if you want to call it that in that month. You know, like anything they want to hear. So the lady's like,

Spanish lady, older, probably 65. And she's like, don't smile. Like, okay. You know. So I'm trying to like keep it. light and they're like on me. Something like, fuck.

But I think I did okay. So they say, all right, go out of the room. Come back in. They said, well, what are you going to do with your life? So I'm not sure yet. You know, I said, I'm going to do it on real estate. You know, I have the good background, given the whole thing. You know, I have the support system.

Bababab, bab, bab, blah, blah. You know, what about your father? I said, he said, you know, you could have told on your father and you didn't have do any prison time. What is that you know? You could have told on your father. So the reason they, the reason they. they were so hard on me was my father who was an attorney was fucking the prosecutor's wife

years before your dad was yeah so i make this deal i'm getting ready to go to sentencing okay and they're it's sentencing this was you know five years before this all happened so sentencing is there double doors you walk in one door there's a little foyer and you walk into the courthouse they stop me say you want to sign this paper saying your dad was misusing his trust fund checks and shit like that you know just like dumb shit but technically shit we get them in trouble I said, no. They said, all you got to do is sign this, you'll do six months and be home. They told you that?

Oh, yeah. They offered me a six months or a year, whatever was. I said, nah, what's he going to do in prison? He can't make it, I can. And did you know the deal that your dad was banging the prosecution's wrong? I knew the prosecutor had a very big problem with my father, but I didn't know why. But you knew that they were low-key trying to get him to. Oh, yeah, they wanted him the whole time because they kept sending stuff to my attorney,

excuse me, to ask questions about him. and he never even got raided or anything. So they wanted him worse than he wanted me. And so they just brought a bullshit to you and said, hey, say that your dad did some nonsense. They said, say your dad, yeah, it fucked with his escrow, his trust account because that's an indictable offense

and other shit. And he said, we'll give you a year or six months wherever it was. I was like, I already signed my deal, brother. So I took 20 years instead of a year. Wow. And your dad, I mean... Listen, and that motherfucker wouldn't have done that for me.

I can tell you that now. Right. He would say, fuck him. He can go to prison for him. for a couple years. But you held it down for him. Yeah. What's he going to do?

He didn't sell drugs. I did it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I am big. I don't make anybody if you did it, fucking eat that. Yeah.

You know, I didn't make anybody buy drugs. I didn't make anybody put bad sin. I didn't say, if you don't buy my drugs, I'm going to shoot.

I was like, you're a grown man, you made a decision. Yeah. That's why I said where it was Eddie, tell him. Right.

Because like, yeah, yeah, it's this old saying, like everyone wants to be in night but no one wants to bleed like one. 100%. It's like, if you want the glory, you got to take the punishment.

And they don't, they just fold. So I got that offer and it went in. So they asked me about my dad in the parole hearing. And he said, well, you know, what about,

you know, your father, you know, is he on the up and up? I said, I've never known to anything wrong. You know, just like that. Like, you know,

as far as I know him, he's a prominent attorney. Like, so you were offered a deal, though, right? To, you know, to help out the prosecution against your father. I said,

they wanted me to write to sign a piece of paper. I didn't believe it was true, just like that. Fuck. So I'm like, now they're hitting me, you know what? Because I'm not, what they want me to do, I think is, you know, but I can't, even I know what I should have said, yeah, I should have signed it and been home with my family because they were like, you know, the big family, I just said, so I'm like, did I fuck up

right there? The guy over here says, you're going home. I said, thank you. Got up. I was the only one that day that didn't get a hit out of 20-something guys. Wow. But they want, yeah. They try to, like, rattle you.

Yeah. That is crazy. Because they want a reaction. They want to know that I'm not going to react. Because that's what, you know, a lot of people were in prison for just one reaction and fucking up one time. Yeah. And you shoot a motherfucker. They run a motherfucker over.

Just not thinking emotionally, just. And that's what they wanted a reaction. Wow. So it's just, you know. But that never, to this day, he's never said, like, thanks. He knows it, though. The motherfucker doesn't. So I don't care.

You know, but he knows, like. Did you tell him? Oh, yeah. They tried to get me to flip on. He was there. he was walking in with me. In the... In the foyer area.

Yeah. He was there. You'll see. I'll send you a video. You'll watch it. You'll see him. Well, you have it... Oh, you don't have the proposition on the video.

No, no, but I have him... I have us walking in, and I have the prosecutor and me talking and the whole thing. My attorney. Mm-hmm. Can I play the video in the episode? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I'll send you all them.

Yeah, you have to, because it's... It's, you know, you get these people, and listen, again, you know how it's... People talk shit that don't even know you. You know, I'm sure that you get it all the time. Like, he told, I didn't tell him a motherfucker. I got 20 years. You understand? I have all the, I keep all the receipts, but I don't argue with these people.

Like, you know, you see these people like going back and forth on YouTube. I don't give a fuck what people say. Yeah. I don't give a fuck. You're not me. Yeah. If you're talking like that, you're the pussy. You understand?

Like, so I don't, my biggest thing, even with my relationships with girls is I don't argue when people say shit. Like, okay, listen, let me. I don't give a fuck about that person. That means nothing to me. They don't change my life. So like the last girlfriend I was with she's like

This girl said you fuck This this is I don't care what she said I don't care what fuck Did she try to prove it I keep the receipts So I always have like Oh I told her I was gonna fuck her Well here's the here's what the real message said

Not the one she made up That kind of thing so that's how I'm big on that thing And I'm so forward in your face Like if I said I told you I did that Yeah I did it yeah I fucked her So what What are gonna do

Keep it straight up Keep it straight up But to people don't like that Right. Like it threatens them. Are you, do you like lying? Are you a good liar?

No. No. I don't think so. Because I don't, when a lie comes out, it's more for protection. But I don't want to protect anything. Like, I'm not,

listen, if I did it, I tell you. Yeah. Like, if I, if you lie to cover shit. I don't, so I'm so forward

that it doesn't seem like, it might seem like a lie, but I have the evidence here. You know what I didn't. Like, she can say whatever you want. Oh, you're fucking lie.

line, if I had to, I can show you that that's not how it really went down. But if you want to believe that, I don't, fuck, go ahead. So if you got accused of cheating, you'd be like, yeah. Prove it. And what if someone proves it? Like, hypothetically. They can't. You cover your tracks.

If I do it, 100%. You know, there's no need. A lot of people want to claim that, just, you know, people that are jealous, bring that shit up. They have no idea. They don't know me? Like, you know what I mean? Like, they think, oh, you know, that guy does this. if you can say that at this table right here,

I'll admit it. Right. But if you can't sit the table and say it to my face, but you can say it to you, but if we sit at the table, you don't say a word. Soft. Right.

So I say anytime like girls, oh, this person, bring them over the table. Let's talk about it. I'll call them right now on conference call and let's see what's said. Oh, we don't want to do that. Why not?

I'm in your face. You know, like, oh, you're going to threaten. I'm not going to threaten them. If I said that, tell them where I said it. Don't say, don't take five things out of the, 30 sentences, as I said, and put them together it to be something else. Right. What is it really? Right. What is, you know, and so that's how it is. So there's no need to just keep it real. Yeah. And that's hard for a lot of people to understand.

Yeah. You know, they don't like that because it threatens them because it takes them out of that comfort zone. And again, I'm comfortable being uncomfortable. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so that's just, it's just one of those things. So you get out immediately, you're back home. Yep. Good system. Michelle was there. So Michelle got ready with me. I wasn't dating her at the time we got We were talking a little bit, whatever. I was dating another girl. The girl was dating at times actually was selling drugs. Not selling, she was a school teacher.

Okay? And she would take like a hundred bag and sell to her class friends, you know, like the teachers and shit like that. And this bitch tells her fucking tells on me. And I never told on her. I'm like, Jane, you were fucking selling drugs. And because the prosecution is so bad, so crooked, they're like, just say you saw this, do this. Here's what you know, they'll feed her the information. Even though it's not true.

And she's like, yeah, yeah, that's, Jamie, you never saw that. What the fuck are you talking about? You signed the thing saying that's what happened and it didn't have anything like that. Right. But you didn't tell them that you were selling fucking quarters and shit to your fucking clip. Well, why do you, if you told them that about me, why are you saying, well, oh, why did this or I did that? They don't tell those stories. You know what I mean?

Like, that's what bothers me about people just not keeping real. Tell the whole story. If I did it, tell the whole story why it happened. Don't you tell your part of the story. They say, hey, yeah, you know, I was taking this from him, right? I took $10,000. I took $20,000. He bought me this.

He bought me that. You know, oh, he charged my credit card up. Well, that's because I charge you because you owe me $20,000. But you didn't tell that part of the story. How come? Right. You know, and that's what I'm saying. Like, that's what makes people uncomfortable is because I'm going to pull you,

I'm going to call you out on your shit. Yeah. So when you get out, do you have some money? Not a lot. Not really. So, and I'll send you that picture. I probably, so the guys that I, was never told on, gave me a bag full cash.

Not a lot. $20,000, something like that. Because so my daughter's mom, who was kind of, like, she was tight with me. She ended up getting married, but she was good for the first few years. But she took the money we had left and spent it. I spent a lot on prosecution, you know, like an attorney. It's just in bullshit. Listen, I didn't know when I was coming to fucking home.

So I'm not going to lie. Like, I was just fucking out there being crazy. You know, like, so between those nine months, I was just doing whatever fuck I wanted. Like what? Like, between the casinos, the fucking flying to Vegas, like just not drinking, but just like fucking... Blown it. Doing dumb shit. Yeah, yeah.

So, but I knew when I came home, I had a good... So, Michelle was right there for me, you know, the one that got in trouble with me. And I, I... We started dating because I was in the halfway house, and I wanted an iPod. Remember those iPods? And she's like, I said, so I'm calling her. Like, I've talked to every day from the halfway house. And I was like, Michelle, I'm going to have...

iPod. She's like, well, do you want to get married? I said, I want to get married too. Like, just fucking with her. She's like, you want to marry a fat bitch? Like, just playing him.

I was like, yeah, yeah. You know, like, just, you know, talking shit to her, like, back, you know, because that's just like the talk we have. And I was, she's like, I said, you got to buy her an iPod. Well, fucking, she buys an iPod and I'm dating her for 15 years. After that.

15 years? Yeah. Like, I just, probably four years ago, I think we broke up during COVID. That's wild. But she's still my best. Like, she's arrived. Oh, dude, she uses and abuses me now.

You know, like, she gets 10 times more out of me now than she ever did when I was with her. You know, like, I'll do anything I want, like, anything I can for her. Like, I don't want to fuck her. You know, she's just there. I mean, she needs something. I'm there for her. And it's hard in relationships because I'm not, she never told her me. She got charged with Kingpin.

She did. And she never saw a drug in her life. She lost her kid for two years. All right. And she never said anything about me. So think about that. These bitches, my ex and my kid's mom, they both told shit there was a lie.

Right. She never told a word. Nothing. She lost her kid at that time. She would drive three times a day, 40 minutes away to pick them off from school, take him to school, pick him off from school, and feed him dinner and then leave him there because his dad.

So they called his father, he called her ex-husband, the day before the raid and said, get in court that day and get your kid. Wow. So they're angling that, to punish me. So part of my plea agreement was if you drop Michelle's charges, I'll take this 20 years. So you guys had each other. Yeah.

Like, she, listen, solid. That's awesome. But my last girlfriend didn't work because of Michelle. Mm-hmm. Because people don't understand loyalty. Mm-hmm. And when I say that, I mean, so the girl's just dating, good girl, gorgeous girl. But she, she has, she's always been taken care of, kind of, you know, like,

And I was saying before, like, you know, she married the whole thing, you know. But she, her parents are in the company, which they gave to her now. But she has friends. They were talking shit at her table on her dad and the company and work and everything. And she's still friends with them. I'm like, Stach, if I don't like them because they were talking shit on your parents. And that's not my company. How do fuck you still hang in with these bitches that are drunk talking shit?

Oh, they're good employees. Stace, they're $15 on our bitches. Get them the fuck out of there. because if you think they're talking shit in front of you, what are they saying when you're not there? That's called loyal to bits. People don't understand loyalty. Like, I'm big on loyalty.

Like, I'm loyal to a fault. I might not be faithful. I am now. But, like, I believe there's a difference of being faithful and loyal. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I'll never turn on it.

I'll never sell you out. Right. But I might... Get mine. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. You know, so... I can see how you can justify it differently.

Yeah. And listen, I mean, that was, you know, I don't cheat it all anymore just because I know it's fucked up. I have a... Really? Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. Seems like one of you, like you're probably

maybe your biggest vice or second biggest vice is women. 100%. Yeah. Money and women. 100%. But you don't cheat anymore. No. That's cool.

Nah. And the thing is, I still get... The problem is it never's going to... I always have that like stigma. Yeah. Because just who I am. History and shit. Yeah.

And, you know, like, you know, Stacey's, you know, she was... After Michelle, I had an assistant to work for me, good girl. Her name was Lexus. And she ran the company for me. She made my life super simple. I miss the shit out of her on that part but she was very

very jealous and she shouldn't have been but she was very jealous and like she was the one I was saying like if I smiled at the fucking lady at Lose I don't like that shit station made me get away like I had to get away from her totally from Alexis

who helped me run my company make my life easier because she didn't like it which okay I kind of get that but then she's like you're always over at bitch Michelle's house I said Michelle would come if your car broke down not that it would but she would pick, if I called her, she'd pick you up.

Like, that's the kind of girl she's got us. But she doesn't, like, she didn't understand that. You know what I mean? So, but I never, she don't stay. Like, she always like, you did this. No, I didn't. Like, your friends are saying, they're fucking lying. So then you get out, she's got you.

Your parents are there. Yep. And they got you. Yep. So, and then just started, got down, just started real estate. Yeah. I mean, that's all started, you know. And I hoped up with a guy.

Building that up. I flipped a house, bought a rental. Flip another house, bought two rentals. You know, and then, cashed out the rentals. So that's where, you know, started changing, I think four or five years when I made the first million profit on real estate. So it took a while to get there. But then by that time, I had enough where we were bringing in rental income, but I was also flipping houses and buying houses. Then I would cash. So I'd buy, I'd flip a house to say, make $50,000. Back

then I'm buying two rentals for that. Then I would cash them out, refile them for $100. I'd bring $100,000, but cash back in me. I'd have mortgage on here. So I write that off. All that money came back, so I didn't have to pay tax on that because it's borrowed money. And so that's just how it went from there. So in 2007, I think, is when I think I hit like 60 or 70 rentals, and that's when it really started getting like real. Right. And I hate rentals.

I'm getting rid of all of them. I'm selling it. Yeah. Fuck. I can't stay. It's a headache. It's, you know, it's not a headache. But so I was buying, like I said, buying $15,000, $20,000, $25,000.

I'm selling for $200 now. So I'm selling 50 of them. I'm averaging about 80 grand per profit. How do you turn down? You don't make that shit in rental income anymore. And people don't fucking pay. When the governor in New Jersey said, don't pay your rent for two fucking years because of COVID,

what the fuck you're going to do? Yeah. And that's the problem. Right. So it's a good game, but I like the flipping part. So now we're in, I'm flipping in Florida here in Jersey. Like I said, I met that guy from L.A.

I'm doing a TV show. he's getting in. We're buying a place together in Florida just so I can get him into making another show and like other things. And this is how much I trust people is that

I was like, dude, you can put it on your name. I don't give a fog. Just pay me. And if you don't pay me one time, listen, if you pay you next 10 years, it's great.

If you take it this time, that's all you're going to make. Yeah. Because I'm the one that's worth the money. Like, in this game, you know, like you do the production,

you get me on TV, you want to do the flipping TV show. That's fine. But this game, you might think you can do it better, but I got it down pretty good. So if you want to fuck me from one deal, do it. I don't give a fuck.

Do you wish that you would just got into real estate off rip? If you had a mentor when you're 19. Yeah. So my dad's second wife, second wife, she owned a real estate office. And when I was probably in the end of high school, I wanted to get in real estate. Is this the crackhead? No, the one before the crackhead. Oh, okay.

So it was my mother, then Debbie, then the crackhead, yep. Whoa. And so if you had linked up with her when you were like 19, I don't know because I was already selling drugs You know what I mean? Like the money was there But I always was interested in real estate Right You know I always I always liked it

So when I came home I started flipping houses with a guy They helped me out He this guy we're not we're a partner's row up But that broke up because you know Everybody gets greedy and shit like I'm a trusting person So like I don't want to do the paperwork I don't want to collect it I don't want to be on the street

You know I mean like I want to run the guys I want to find the places I don't want to fucking sit there and fill out rental registrations and bank shit. Paperwork sucks. It sucks. And I suck at it.

Like I can admit, I'm terrible. Like, I fucking mail this high that only can even fucking open. Like, if it's not email to me that I can just like pay online,

I don't fucking know. I don't care. So that went bad after two years. But in the meantime, you know, he was, that was our partnership.

So it worked out. I'd get a job done. We'd sell them. But then things started not equal. You know, he had money. Right. I needed money to live.

You know, that so it's different. So that's how that went bad. It's you have, the real estate thing is a, you'll never, I don't think there's another profession you'll make the kind of money in. Doctors don't make it. But I can make a year just, you know, buying and selling houses. Right.

And it's, I love, I enjoy the deal. And it's all clean and legal and, I'm on board. I mean, illegal, I mean, I might not pull a permit for everything. Sure, you know. But I mean, it's not drug charges. Right, yeah, there's no. Yeah. I mean, I fight with the townships.

I fight with people all the time. But there's no, I'm not going to prison. I don't fucking jaywalk now. Like I was like, let me hit this fucking thing right. Like, I'm not, listen, prison sucks. I don't give a fuck. No, but what anybody says, the toughest motherfucker you'll see coming out, I don't care about it, he's the one crying himself to sleep in jail. Yeah, shit sucks.

It absolutely sucks. Whoever says it's fun is stupid. Like, they belong in that motherfucker. I couldn't wait to come to fuck home. You know, these guys, I'm maxing out. Fuck that. If I can get out two days early, give me to fuck out of there. But I, you know, I also see that, like I said, my mindset's different a lot than, you know, a lot of people.

Because, you know, I don't, I never, I never looked at even thinking about going back to doing that shit. I've been broke. I've been fucking in jail. What makes me dangerous is I've been broke. I've been in prison. You can't scare me. Right. So you can say wherever fuck you want.

In my mind, there's nothing I can't do. Right. In a way, do you feel like prison actually helped you? 100%. Because you were like, I'm not doing illegal shit anymore. 100%. Yeah. And I would tell everybody, like, there's other angles to make it out there.

There's so many opportunities to make money. Yeah. Why? You know, listen, nobody, everybody tells now, you can't do anything without the fucking government hearing it. You know, so it's one of those things, like, you got to come up with something better. Yeah. I mean, listen, I still know guys that do it.

Sure. But, I mean, it's like, when you get knocked off, this shit goes. Because now they can come all, you know, they find everything. Like I said, nothing. They don't do any. Their shit is illegal. fuck the government the way they treat you. Right. So it's just not worth it. It's just, you know,

it's one of those things like, you got to get better. If you could tell like 19 year old dev, like anything. See, I don't regret it, man. I can't do that. Because it put me in spots I'd never would have been in before, too. It was though. So because it was, the game was different back then. So I don't know. I mean, yeah, you say don't do, don't sell drugs, don't go to prison. Yeah. But I don't regret it.

But do you regret any of like the, like the family stuff? Yes and no, I mean, still, because I came home, I don't know if I'd be here right now if it didn't happen. I'm happy with my position now. Right. So from 2010 to today, I wouldn't change a fucking thing. You know, I might have been better in relationship, but that's probably it. Like I fucked up one relationship I know of that I should have probably worked harder to keep. But besides that, I wouldn't change, I wouldn't change one thing.

The good deals, the bad deals, my position right now, I'm happy. Yeah. I was never happy like that in that time, but it put me in position to be here now. Right. And it made me fucking fearless at the end of the day because what's worse than lock up for 72 days and being broke?

Yeah. There's not, I mean, you know, and people say money doesn't buy happiness. No, it doesn't, but guess what? I don't know a lot of motherfuckers that have money that are out there causing problems and fights. It's what the people that are upset are the ones that can't pay their bills yesterday tomorrow.

Yeah. They're stressed out all night, which sucks. Like, that's a terrible feeling. When you wake up knowing, you're going to be okay, you might have a bad day, but you're not like, fuck, this world sucks because I can't fucking buy dinner. Yeah.

So, you know, that's the thing. It's just my mistakes, I definitely fucked up, but, I mean, today I wouldn't change anything this whole way around. Would you ever go back to prison and teach? They couldn't pay me enough. I would do it pre. I would rather teach and go on a tour of 16 to 19-year-olds

that are in trouble or doing trouble. That's what I'm talking about. Yes. I wouldn't want to go into prisons. I would go into a few prisons. Just like, but the problem is, so when I, like, came home, I spoke to a couple, like, the Boys and Girls Club of Philly, like, people, things there. The parents are the ones that are worse. So they're not paying attention.

The kids are listening because, you know, it's a good story. But the parents, so without your parents helping you, you're done. Like, it's just the parent factor has to be in there. Or it has to be, like, a 16 and 19-year-old where there's nobody in there. You say, listen, this is what sucks about prison. Yeah. Like, you don't want to shower with 50 motherfuckers where you get under the water. You fucking spray.

Getting hos and fighting. You don't want to do that. Like, it may sound good, but you're not that fucking tough, especially in today's world. Yeah. You know? So I would definitely do, like, a tour. But if there's a way to talk to, like, 19-year-olds that were, like, you,

that, like, didn't have great parental systems, but were, like, sharp and bright. And just be like, yo, there's another way for you to make money. Yeah. And I was shown, listen, construction. I showed trades, like, real estate. You don't need to be smart. You just got to position. Keep your credit good.

You know, like, I could show them the path to make it. They're not going to make my kind of money. I mean, you've got to get to, you know, like, it takes a while. But, I mean, you can start off making more than you're making a McDonald's. Yeah. And it keeps you busy the whole time. And they would believe you because you've been through it. Like, if a guy like me goes to prison, I'm like, hey, start a podcast.

I'm like, what are you talking about? You grew up in a suburb. Like, I'm not, you know what I mean? It's Ian. Yeah, yeah. He's a great dude. Like, I truly respect him. Yeah.

You know, the first time I met him was great. And, you know, I stay in touch with him and meet him. Like, I want to help him get better. Yeah. he has the potential of to to show things that like the average people don't show you know like I do Matt Cox's thing next week oh yeah yeah I'm going down to Florida yeah but we're also filming some for flipping show down there so we're don't you know but they're you guys are the ones that like change it like you know they sell like the Logan I don't watch that shit because I don't give a fuck yeah you know like I watched Andrew yeah yeah yeah but he's got something you know like he says shit that people should did I think that you know most people can't say yeah yeah so But like this is what this is so much more informative and helpful than I think any of the bullshit like the balls and all those fucking, you know.

I can see that. I mean, my thing is like I just got what I got nothing to say to someone that's doing crime or dealing drugs. Like I don't have any advice. I don't know. I don't know where they're from, but I can talk with people like you that have been through that. Yeah.

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So like, you know, I can't wait to come watch you, you know, perform. Like, I like that shit. Like, I like, you know, I like being there, like, you know, got you back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's not, as you can tell, I don't like a lot of people. You know what I mean? Like, I could care less about, you know, had these people like, you know, I go to dinner. I sit, I have no problem sitting at the bar by myself at the end.

Right. And then people come talking like, man, fuck, I just want to be left alone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where you like people. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, like, you know, I sit, I go to Texas Roadhouse and I'm sitting on the corner here and then somebody comes over and sees me and all of a sudden things I'm approachable. And I talk to everybody.

Right. I have no problem doing it, but if I can sit there and just eat alone and be out, I do it. You're chilling. But I would also love that anybody can help to make to the next level. Like, we all eat together. If we're down, we're all eating together.

So if we have a deal on, I say, listen, we just made $100,000, we're just going to put the shuntlete and we'll eat it. That's cool. So I'm not greedy either. That's the one thing in prison also because you see greed is what fucked a lot. People get fucked up.

Greed and jealousy. And the split second, not thinking about what you're going to do for that second. And then your whole life changes. You fucked up, man. It's cool that you. able to turn it around. I really think that's awesome. Yeah, you know, it's not hard. It's not hard. Just you got to take it to the right way.

Yeah. And you have all the talents. You always had the skills. It was just applied in the wrong thing. It was around a business. It was a drug game instead of a, you know, a construction company. Yeah. Did you ever see like any of the guys, like the dude that snitched on you or any of the other co-defendants or anything like that? I see him all the time. And what happens with those relationships? I laugh at them. What about the other co-defendants? I don't see many of them because it's just you know we're totally different spots

some of them are still fucking doing nothing right but the one that told like I see him and just laugh at them like I just blatantly like you're a fucking clown they said I put the houses next to him and across the street yeah just to be a dick that's petty but it's awesome

listen I want and if my chick at the time didn't talk me out of it I was painting a rat on the side of the house that he walks out of his front door and put his name on it no sort of got I was going to Like I torture you that's how mentally like you know what's beating them up going to do? Right You know he'll. Long game.

Yeah. Fuck your head up so you kill yourself. Bro. Fucked up, man. Dev, this was this was very interesting man. I'll be honest. I didn't expect to like you. Oh, that's good.

That's even better. You kind of flipped me, man. I'll be honest. This is very interesting. And going from like childhood, I can see how your mentality and everything kind of formed into where you're at now. And it's cool that prison was able to wake you up like, you know, I don't want to do this shit. You don't want to. Anybody listening or watching you, you don't want to go.

Yeah. Do you think at this point you made more in real estate than you ever did in? Ever. Really? Oh, by far. That's cool. I'm six figures a year without thinking. Yeah.

I mean, seven figures here without thinking. Yeah. And now it's on cruise control. That's dope, man. And so, you know, like, back then it was a struggle. Now, it's now I walk in and know what I'm going to do. Yeah. And I like that part.

You know, like the real estate, you know, I love looking at these pieces of shit houses and knowing what I can do. You know, and in my, I do a different than a lot because, you know, I put the team together. And that's the other thing. Like, you know, real estate, like, you know, like the subs and I was saying, like, they made more money than I did when I started this ship. So what I do? I drove around and found every best carpenter on the job. They say, say, you know, what are they paying you? I'll make it better.

Come over to me because I know it's still cheaper than what it's going to cost to get it done by subbing it out and put together a team myself. Interesting. So my rate, like, my electrician and my plumber, I can redo a whole house for three grand when it'll cost me 15. It would cost you 15 to get it done. Yeah. So I bought tobacco so I can dig my own shit. Like, you ever do mushrooms? No, I don't do drugs.

Never. I'm not, my mind should never do any mind-altering shit. Yeah, maybe not. No, like, I thought about it. I was like, you know, because a chick was like, you don't do mushrooms, but I was like, I just don't think I should. My old assistant girl, the Lexus, she was like, I want to do mushrooms. I was like, I don't think I should. Yeah, I mean, if you don't think you should, then I definitely don't.

But I just, I think that would be like the last, like ripple in your story is like, I have only done mushrooms like twice. I want to grow them. I swear to God, I was looking at much. You look at the phone. I was looking at a mush. It's called a shit block. Make sure it's legal.

Yeah, you can grow yourself. I think you can. I don't really know. But a mushroom, that's not, that can't be illegal. That dude got called eight and a half a million. You see that? No. He grew eight and he had to.

I think it was in New Jersey. Eight and a half million dollars with mushrooms in his house. You can Google this shit, yeah. That's crazy. You can't get 20-something years. Eight and a half mill. That's wild. But I saw, like, they were selling on, like, Facebook or, like, it's called a shit block.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they sell them in, like, Amsterdam. They sell just, like, seeds or whatever. You can grow all your mushrooms. And I think it pretty easy to grow. Did you do? No. What do you think?

I did mushrooms one time with a high dose, and it was great. What's it do? So for me, I did it, like, very therapeutically. I don't really like drugs like that. Like, I don't really. Really? You smoke? No.

It makes me paranoid. I got a little... Even like Indica? See, I take edibles at night just go to sleep. I start... I thought I was thinking about planets and stuff, bro.

I started thinking about a planet. I'm like, what is a planet? How is even up there? It's just floating there. Oh, you over there. I just, I get anxious. I can't fuck with any of that. So I don't like to smoke.

And like, I'll drink sometimes. I can't phone with my girlfriend. But not really. So I don't really fuck with drugs. Never done cocaine. I did Molly one time. That was awesome. Have you done Molly?

I've only eaten edibles. Maybe Molly would be good for you too I don't want that shit But the only reason I bring it up Is because like the mushrooms for me It helps you get in touch with emotion In a positive way And again I don't know if you need this

I'm not telling you listen I mean I'm open to anything But I found it very helpful for me Like it helped me like sort of like Evaluate and kind of manage a lot of my feelings It was very interesting It wasn't like I'm at a party Seeing all this crazy shit

It was like I was in the woods Like on a hammock I got like a cabin like with my girl and I would just like So it's just you too Yeah yeah See I'd probably be okay with like And she was sober

She was just taking care of me And so you need somebody to handle you Yeah Well just in case I start bugging out Like I don't know what's gonna happen Because like you know you're like This shit This mind's fucked up already

Right that's how I feel I'm like I don't want to start geeking out there in the woods So like I'm like okay just take care of me I just laid there I listened to music The music was amazing Like I was just like I was just a pink floor And then I didn't really see anything crazy

Like when I closed my eyes Like there was colors that were really, like, vibrant. That was really interesting. And then, like, visually, things got, like, a little wavy. The trees kind of get, like, a little wavy. But it's more, like, the internal feeling where I started thinking about things

in just a different way. Like, you're able to, like, three-dimensionally look at situations that normally are, like, two-dimensional. But does it stick with you? Like, did you remember kind of, like, what you're thinking? The advice sticks with you. Are you? Yeah.

100%. For me, again, it might be different for other people. I'll try it. I mean, they're not bad. I felt like the advice stuck with me, and I was able to sort of, like, see situations with a different lens, and I was able to understand other people's motivations

when normally I would be more, you know, resistant to understanding their perspective. And I came out of it being like, oh, wow, I get why they felt that and that I had more empathy towards them. Or I was like, I get why I was anxious about this thing. It wasn't actually about the thing. It was about this other thing. Right.

And I was able to understand more fully what it was. And it was just really helpful. And I did it one time. And it was like eight months ago. I haven't done it since. Are you going to? I'll probably do it like once a year as like a mental check-in. Like it just kind of like...

Fuck it. I'm trying. Let me know what we're doing. I got a house in the polonos. I got Airbnb and a Pokemonos. I don't know what's going on your brain, though. I don't want you to start going crazy. Start beating me up in the shower.

Yeah, but I don't see. No face shots. No face shot. No face shot. But I'm saying, like, that's something that I would definitely explore if we had somebody to take care of us. Yeah. I could not.

I just, you know, like, I've seen people with bad trips, like acid. Yeah. Like, I don't want shit coming at me. Yeah, yeah. I also, I also think it matters, like, the intention. Are you going into it to, like, see some crazy shit? No, I don't want to. Right.

Or are you going into it to like try to work on yourself? Right. You know what I would 100% do that. So like I even know a psychologist who lives in Vermont that does like MDMA therapy and psilocybin therapy. So literally. Like Joe Rogan had done right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So like it's very therapeutic.

You go in like he tells you everything that's going to go on. You journal. Like it's not you're not talking to someone. It's not like. How long is it lasts? Mine was probably like four hours. That's kind of long to be fucked up. But it doesn't feel long because you're in there just being like, whoa, everything is different.

on what I thought. Not everything, but like, this situation is, uh, is not what I thought it was in my perspective on myself. It's like, it's like, for me at least, the way I was described it is like, like, I took my own advice. Like, people can come to me for advice and be like, Mark, what should I do in this situation? I would be like, oh, do this, that and the third. Like, I had all these great ideas. But then when I came to my own thing, you don't do what you think. I would, like, I would get caught up in my own way or whatever. And then I, afterwards, I was like, yeah, why am I anxious about this? Why am I worried about it? Everything's fine. Right. Like, it just, it cooled me out and, like, really helped.

And again... Are you an anxious person? Yeah. Are you? I mean, like, not like, everyday life. I'm not like, oh, my God, just jittery, but, like, I'll just, like, be thinking about work all the time. Or I'll be thinking about what I got to do next. But does that drive you, though? Oh, 100%. Yeah. Because people don't think, like, I think like that, too. I don't need to work. Right.

But I think about, like, what am I going to do? Like, when I have a day off, Thanksgiving, I gave way 400 meals. I didn't even go to Thanksgiving dinner. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was thinking that, like, because Wednesday, we started. Thursday, Friday, Saturday, I'm fucking losing my mind. Right. I don't have to work another day in my life.

I don't want to. Right. But I, like, I'm like, oh, fuck. Sunday, I'm checking job sites. Like, I'm just, you know, I'm on that time. Like, I'm checking analytics. I'm writing jokes. I'm thinking about what the tour.

I'm trying to find show. Like, I'm always just, like, ruminating. Yeah. When sometimes I need to be present. Or, like, I'm hanging with my girl and we're at dinner, and she can kind of tell that I'm not really there because I'm over here thinking about work shit. But does she?

So, not to get in your personal, but is like, does she have a good job? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. My ex that, the association wouldn't remind. She didn't understand that I want to work every day.

Right. Which, again, there's personality types and we're different people and like, you know, she has her own job and she loves her work and it's like legit, you know, she's a medical professional and that's her thing and it's great. And but it's just like, you know, when we're spending time together, like family is, family is important to me. Oh, yeah. And so like, I have a wife and I'm building my family with her. and it's like being present in that relationship is very important to nourishing the relationship. Eventually we're going to have kids

and being present with my kids is very important. And if I'm just constantly running off thinking of other shit, it's hard to be present with them. And then how is that going to affect them? Yada, yada, yada. This is just where I'm at in my life. So, like, yeah, things like mushrooms were helpful. Therapy, again, was not really that helpful

because I was able to tell the therapist kind of like you, just like... What they want to hear? Yeah, or he'd be like, you know, how are you feeling with this? And I'd be like, I feel kind of like this, but then I would explain. Because, again, I know it, but I don't internalize it.

Correct. And mushrooms was the only thing that made me take what I knew and feel it. It's bizarre. I don't know. And maybe it has different effects for different people. I can't speak to it. No, I've heard that numerous times. And I just looked at, like you said, the girl before, she's like, dude, I was like,

but I just don't, listen, because if something comes there to me, I'm a fighter. You know what I don't want to be in that. Like, I don't like being at all. don't drink, I don't, you know, I don't drink, I don't want to be, I don't like being out of, like, conscience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. So, like, I've never done any, like, this is, I do these all day. Yeah. Pre-work out, morning, fuck back. That, you know, I'm, I'm, like, if I were to do drugs, it's probably me meth because I want to be a hundred-bond hour.

You know, because I, like, like, says, smoking, I take edibles at night. Yeah. And only because I just go to sleep. I just helps you sleep. Not that, because I've never had a problem sleeping, but it puts me in such a good. That you wake up and and I feel real good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So after four hours, five hours, I mean, that's all last. I wake up, boom, two more, four 30. Yeah, boom, like, let's go. Yeah, you're a dog.

You got to go. Yeah. You need to be walked. Yeah, yeah. I cannot sit. But then again, you know, five years and fucking locked up, fuck that up. Like, I don't ever want to, I can't sit still. Like, this is probably long as I sat.

Like, you know, I'll go to business means or investment things. I'm like, I gotta go. Yeah, yeah. You got shit to do. Call me. Like, you know, and that kind of thing. So I definitely would try them. I'd have to be, I don't know if I'd go in the woods because I would sell me.

The shit might be, the trees might come alive and shit. But that's the only thing I worry about. I was like, is having a bad. Yeah, of course. You know, because now I'm going to fucking fight a tree. Well, what's interesting is like I've heard people saying, I've never had a bad experience. And again, people have bad experiences, of course.

With mushrooms or it's only with like acid? I can't speak specifically. I've never done acid. I never really had an interest in it because, again, I don't want to, I'm not in it for the thrill. I'm trying to go into it with like an actual intention of like improving myself. And so I've, again, for me, like the fear was that, that I would see something scary.

Yeah. Like, I go into it. Like, I grow very religious. And so, like, I had this fear that, like, what if there's a demon? Are you still? I believe in God. I'm Catholic.

I'm less religious than I probably was. But I still believe in, like, the fundamental tenets of, you know. I couldn't get through the Bible at all. No, I just couldn't. Because, you know, to me, and I hate religious discussion, I believe everybody should believe in something. Yeah. But like, do you believe in God?

No. Really? Do you think there is no God or you just don't know? Well, see. The thing is, I have no evidence. So I'm a man to just show me and I believe you. Like, if you talk to God and tell him, I'll buy him dinner. Like, come down during the Dallas game and say, I'm God.

I'm 100% believe you and I'll do whatever you want. But there's so many gods and so many problems over religion, there's more people killed a religion than anything else in the world. You know, and there's so many different gods. So who's God's right and who's God's wrong? Right. So there's no, there's just not enough definitive evidence for me to understand. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Probably because I'm not smart enough. Honestly, like, I'm good at what I'm good at. And I can admit that. But there's other shit. Like, I have no idea. Like, I tried to read the Bible and I tried to like, I got through seven pages and like, you know, did this. So they're like, well, the seven days is really, well, no, that, to me, I need to spell it out. Right.

Like, I did this in the first hundred years, not the first day. You know, that guy. And then a guy talking to one guy in a burning bush. I'm like, to me, it doesn't make sense. Yeah, yeah. I want to see what's around the corner. I don't want to believe it. Right.

But I believe it. But I believe in me. Not that I'm a God, by the means, but if there's a problem, I look in the mirror like, Del Dev, how are we going to handle this? Where other people, if it helps them, say, God's going to help me get through this or God's going to help my, but where was God like doing the 911s and, you know, the towers and shit? Like, you know, good people died too. They believed in that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just like there's so many conflicting things that I just don't even want to get. And you're Catholic, which I think is a huge business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I look at dollars and cents. I mean, they're the biggest business in the world. Yeah. And they're sitting on the most cash.

in the world. Yeah, yeah. So it's just, how does that, where does that come? You know, like that kind of thing. For me, the way that I understand, at least now, and I'm kind of grappling with it still, so I don't necessarily have, like, a very fully, like, fleshed out sort of, like, idea on it. But for me personally, like, I like, and I believe in the idea of, like, a higher power.

I like that idea. That I'm like, just the, all of us getting here on Earth. Like, there's just, like, this little bubble that just exists and where did it come from, matter can't be created or destroyed except for an energy yeah exactly except for the beginning of everything so like that is like a big question mark where i'm like how did this come to be how do we have consciousness how are we walking around there must be some type of like greater thing and probably a lot of these religions are an attempt to explain that greater thing um and i don't know if necessarily all of them are right or wrong i can't speak to that specifically but i do think the

tenants at least for me for like catholicism were like very helpful like i think just like the like humility, love people that hate you. It's like a very, like, powerful. Agreed. There's definitely good things in it. But it's the, you know, it's the higher thing like you're going to go to heaven when you die. Listen, I think what in hell in every religion. No matter how much good I do. You understand?

Like, I don't know. Well, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. But I'm just saying, like, I don't know, you know, listen, I try. And this, like, every day. And I don't tell people like what I do. But every day I'm in a position now where I can help somebody every day. You know, I buy somebody's a grocery.

I was at a grocery store two days ago, and the guy's counting his fucking quarters to buy like $20 worth the shit. I was like, here's 50. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't tell anybody about it. Like, I buy people dinner. I leave before they know it's me.

That's cool. Because I don't even want you to say thank you. Because I know you appreciate it. And I don't post, you know, you see these guys on Facebook. Oh, look, I just gave this. Listen, I post on Facebook. We gave 400 meals out because I want,

and not like who, no picture of anybody. I just put a little quote, you know, long day 400 meals. But, you know, Kensington was the fentanyl. They used to get back to it. The fentanyl's fucking people up. They don't think this border's fucked up. I've never seen...

And I've been in a drug game. I've seen a lot of bad shit. It's a zombie land in Kensington right now in Philly. I mean, they're just... It's terrible. Like, there's something neat. Even though I was in drugs, somebody needs to get a hold of this shit.

And they're giving needles out. Like, there's 10,000 needles on the fucking ground because they give them needles free. Make that make sense to me. Who says that's a good idea? Yeah. So it's just... I like helping

somebody all the time. And no matter how much I help, I don't want, I don't want people to say thank you. Yeah. Like, I just want to leave. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think that's awesome. But, you know, but I also want to see my photos, like we did, I wouldn't say, everybody says, oh, I want to help next year. And then next year it comes, like, oh, man, you know, I got to go to my moms for dinner. See, don't just say that because you don't mean that.

You know what I mean? And so, you know, like said, I didn't have Thanksgiving. I got done at 430, 530, I fell asleep with my couch on 730. My parents, they all had their shit. They knew I was doing what I do. I do that and do Christmas. I don't care about that. I can do anything I want. These people can't. So if I can help somebody when I can,

I enjoy that without, I don't want people to know. Yeah, which is awesome. So to me, those are like the tenets of like any great religion. Like I think Islam probably has tenets of humility. I think Judaism has tenets of humility. Like just those types of things for me,

I always thought were very, like, helpful and good for like, you know, society building in general. So like those are the things I try to hold on to. Anything where it's like, you just try to live right.

Yeah, hate someone or kill someone for their religion is obviously. obviously bullshit, so I don't abide by that. But to the mushroom thing, my fear was that I was going to see something terrible. And then when I was like, all right, I'm just going to confront what my fear is, then the fear went away. Like, it's a bizarre thing. Like, in my mind, I was like, okay, I'm going to close my eyes.

I'm going to see this thing I'm afraid of. Like, if there's going to be a demon that's going to show up in my mind, like, let it. And what do you do if it shows up, though? What is your, so in your mind, see, where I think three steps ahead, I'm thinking, if I see it now, what's my next step? So what did you think, if you see that, what do you do now? So my thought was, if this thing shows up, whatever this thing is, I'm going to try to think of the scariest thing. I'm going to try to conjure the scariest thing in my mind.

And handle it. And I'm going to confront it. And then the second I saw this thing, which was nothing, I literally nothing even vaporized. It was just like, it was just a dark cloud or something. And I close my eyes and I see this dark cloud. And it's like much more vivid because the mushroom is kind of like, I don't know what it is. Like you can, you feel like this thing in your brain.

brain where you can like see colors and like lights like you can like like it's it's a it's a weird thing to describe like that whole mind's eye thing where people talk about like you have a eye in your brain or whatever it's i've never felt it except for mushrooms and you close your eyes and you're like oh yeah i can see stuff in here it's bizarre and so i was like okay let me see the scariest thing i can think of i close my eyes and nothing comes about and then it goes away and then the next like three hours were just awesome and but it to me you got that out of the way ahead of Like that was your first thing. So who told you to do that?

Because if I didn't know, if you didn't say that, I wouldn't know what to do. So it was two people. One was a psychologist I actually spoke to on this show about psilocybin and just drug research in general. And he was awesome. He was like the best dude. Rick Barnett. He's a great guy.

And then the second one was Graham Hancock. I don't know if you're familiar with him. He has a show on Netflix, ancient apocalypse, which is basically, he's like an alternative history guy where he tries to break down history through a different lens and goes to all these different sites and has explanations that. are really interesting. But he's also like a big psychedelic drug user. And the thing that he brought up,

his quote specifically was when the snake rears its head jump into its mouth. So if you're in an experience and the most horrible thing you can think of, a snake shows up in your face, you can't run from it. If you run from it, that's when the experience goes bad.

That's when you have a bad trip. That's when you start trying to not think of it and then not thinking of it makes it. Makes you think of it. And then it starts to festering your brain. Or instead, you see it and you attack it directly, you go straight into it. And then once you go straight into it,

the thing goes away, which is true in life also, right? Like, you stand up to your shit. Exactly. So like, and if something's bugging you, which it doesn't seem like you have an issue with this, this thing specifically. Like if something's bugging you, a lot of people will ignore it.

They'll try to look past it. They'll pretend it's not bugging them. And then it's just eating them up inside. And they don't even realize it. That's the worst shit ever. And just once you would confront it and you go, hey, I fucked up, I did this thing wrong. Or, hey, this thing you did to me was pissing me off

and I want to talk about it. it, then all of a sudden, it just, it goes away. And so to me, it was like a lesson in that, and I actually really retained it beyond. And it does different things for different people. Again, I don't know. I don't think it's a panacea. People talk about, like, psychedelics and things like, oh, this will solve all your problems. I don't think that's true either. But for me, specifically in that one case, it was very productive, and I'll probably do it again. But again, it's very much like a set and setting thing, like make it very intentional, get good stuff, work with someone or journal or something that, like, you get your,

thoughts out. That's another thing that might be nice is like journaling, you can't bullshit a journal. Right. You can bullshit a therapist. Yeah. But when you're writing your thoughts out, even just the act of just like spilling your brain onto a piece of paper and kind of looking at it being like, yeah, am I an angry person? Am I a sad person? I wrote a book on. Oh, really? Yeah. I didn't know that. Is it out now?

No, it's probably three months, three or four months. Oh, cool. I just did the last chapter. Was that productive? Yeah. Yes, and no. You know, the thing is it exposed because it exposes too many people. Like, I don't want certain people to read it, because I don't to hurt them. Sure. You understand? So that is my biggest thing right now. So the girl that's helped me write is like, I need to know about these relationships. Well, I don't want to hurt the I don't want to do, like I don't want to do that. You know what I mean? And that's the hardest part.

Like I wrote great things about everybody. But then I do, I just, you know, what I, it's private is private to me. Right. You know. And that's the beauty of a journal. Is that you can put some shit down. And that's what I'm saying. Because the book, it just, it's just, it chronicles everything. many, like, text messages and things that, like, nobody would ever know or from different, you know, like, we have all that. So it was, it was very helpful in getting me past, like, not angry of people, but say, like, it just helped me get past them. And, you know, like, the things they did were kind of, like, fucked up.

Yeah. Because they thought not, and it wasn't really my own fault. It was my fault because I just didn't pay attention enough because I don't think like that. But then it also showed me, like, and when she came back, she said, well, what do you think about this. Like, you know, when the girl read it first, she's like, let's go further in this because this kind of makes, then you understand. So that helped in that, in that aspect. That's awesome. So, you know, it's like flipping. And everybody's concerned about these fucking relationships I had, which I don't know why. You know, it's just like, but they want to know,

like, listen, I don't get angry. Like, I'm not going to fight with you. Like, you know, I might, if I, if I talk loud, that's my yelling. Like, you know, like, because I don't have any desire to do that. And I don't have, and, you know, like I said, I don't defend myself. You, You can write whatever fuck you want to. I don't care. You mean nothing to me. You know, if I'm put in your head and you don't sleep night, I won. Right.

I'm still going to sleep just fine. Yeah, yeah. You know, so I know I won. So that was the hard thing. It's like just getting this, the relationship part, because that's probably my biggest hurdle in life is, you know, like maintaining a good relationship because of my past. Yeah, of course. You know, and it's always fighting, you know, like when I meet the mom and dad, you know, like, oh, he was in prison.

bitch, I was in prison 10 fucking 12 years ago. You were like, I'm way past that. And the people I know are 10 times more important than you, you know, so it's hard like that part. And then, you know, like you said, banging these fucking chicks. Like, what's your body count? You don't want to know. Like, don't ask me. But in like in a book, they want to know.

Like, she's like, you guys, I'm not doing that. Right. I refuse to do that. Five. That's my number five. So, you know, it's just the one thing. Five, man. Five, man.

Here's what I say. And I tell five without a condom. That's all it counts. With a condom it doesn't count. Yeah, you're having sex with rubber, bro. Honestly. That's it. So it doesn't count against your body count.

So I think I'm six. Six, maybe. Yeah. So, like, and when I tell these, you know, they're like, yeah, how many people are like, five, six? I don't fucking know.

Shut the fight, you know. So it's just, you know, so you know, they have a problem. You just tell, you don't want to know. Right. Don't ask questions you don't want to know. I'm big on that. So, you know, like,

the school teacher, I started dating, you know, years before I got in trouble. I meet her, first thing, what's your body count? She's like, 36. She starts crying. I don't see, I don't give a fuck. I don't care.

Listen, it's not me. You're not fucking, you got anything? Like, I don't give a fuck, you fuck 200. Because that's your past. So I'm okay with that. But then me, you know, oh, you fuck this. But, you know, like, women can't, don't look past it like men, I think, too, either. You know what I mean?

Yeah, especially you, if you say you're not jealous. Like, why would you care what someone did before they met you? Listen, I'd laugh when we see ex-boyfriend. Right. Like, now I'm fucking her. You know, like, I want my, everybody I'm out with. I want everybody to say, damn, that chick's hot.

I want a banger. And I just look back like, how I'm taking her home night and you're not. You know, like, that's my mentality. Because if it was any around and you're looking at my chicks, you got big fake tits and, you know, it's gorgeous girl. And you get jealous. For what?

Right. You get protected for no reason. Yeah, for no reason. I saved that shit for when she didn't understand, like, I took her to the casino, like, one of the first times we went out, this is my ex. And she wanted to hold my hand. I say, Steve, you can't hold my hand.

left hand's covering my money. And my right hand is swing. Because I never get out of that protection mode. Right. So if you're in my group, my job is providing protect for you. Like, I totally, like, I die for my people at a time. She's like, I said, Stacey, you don't understand. I know what bad is.

So I know these dudes that are looking all around are looking for a dude to take advantage of. He's got a pocketful of money. Don't hold my hand. We get in the car, you can hold my hand. But we're walking through the casino and I got $10,000 in my pocket. Don't fucking touch me. Walk next to me, hold my arm, keep this hand. because I got a swing and I got to protect my money.

But people don't understand that too. You know what I mean? But because of where I came from, I see the bad in people. I know these intentions. Like, yeah, this dude's talking to me, he's nice. No, he's trying to, he's trying to text him right now and say, do you want to fuck and see what he says? Right.

You know, all these girls, like, oh, he's just my friend. Okay, if he's your friend, text him right now, say, you're a hook up. I guarantee he's like, yes. I would never do it. I said, it doesn't matter what you would do. It's what they would do. So that's what I'm saying, like, I'm in your face.

Like, that's how that's how it is. Listen, he's your friend. All right, text him right now and say, you want to fuck and see what he says. Yeah. Because then you'll really know, but then, no, that's the one. I said, of course. Yeah, of course. You know, so that's the test.

But listen, life is good. Jail sucks. Man, that's awesome. This is an awesome spot, man. I love it. This is an awesome set. I appreciate it, brother. Thank you so much.

I'm really, generally, I'm grateful that you came through and shared your story. And, yeah, I'm glad that you're doing better and that you're out and live in life. Yeah, I'm not going back. Fuck that. No more. No more. And hopefully someone listening to this

that's wrapped up and knows that there's a way to get out. And listen, with aliens and a couple of the podcasts I did, I bet you I bet you probably on aliens podcast alone I bet you're 100, I've talked to 100 people.

Yeah. Like in the similar situations and like, I spent four hours on phone with a dude. That's cool. You know, just like, you know, it's going to be good. And I have no problem.

Like, I'm cool with that. You know, so like, for the TV thing, they wanted me like, I used to keep my social media closed. So they're like, just open it up, let people, I'm like,

I don't want people fucking looking at me. Like, I don't want them talking to me. Yeah. But I did. And I'm glad because now, you know, like I said, I was able to talk to people like this guy, Brian, Brian Compton, he's named from BC Limited. He has like a little clothing company.

During COVID, he was on the marketplace where he said some political shit and they shut him down. During COVID, like about the vaccine. He had a big building going on selling all his BC with like, like this one of a shirt. You know, just like, you know, shit like that. Like, you know, he's like alpha. dude, you know, like your real man, which

I think you know, there are not many of them left. And I got on, I had that, I hate people had on. His shit blew up because that was his hat. Oh, really? And he's like, dude, I'll send you. I said, I don't want, don't send me anything, bro. Just whatever you want, if I can help you, get bigger, I will. I don't need you.

What are you going to send me some fucking 500 hours? I'm going to change my life. Keep it, dude. Get your shit back. So, like, you know, I was telling you help you. Then I had a guy walking down the store that he's like, you know, dude, can you come talk to my kids in third grade. I don't go, fuck.

he's like, how much you want? I was like, don't worry about it. He's like, I'll pay for your, man, listen, I'll come in there, give me an hour, you know, that kind of shit. So I like this platform of being, if I can help do a couple people, it's good for me.

That's true. You know what I mean? Dev, I appreciate your brother. Thank you so much, man.