Camp Gagnon - Epstein’s DARKEST Secret Wasn’t The Island | Nick Bryant

Episode Date: February 13, 2026

Nick Bryant, one of the first reporters to report on Jeffrey Epstein, joins us today to discuss the latest release of emails...WELCOME TO CAMP!🏕️Shoutout to our sponsors: Cheers, Brunt and Morgan & MorganUse Code ‘CAMP’ For 20% OFF When You Visit https://cheershealth.comGet $10 off at BRUNT with code "CAMP" at http://bruntworkwear.com/CAMP👕🧢 SHOP CAMP MERCH HERE: https://camp-rd.com/collections/ufo🎟️ 🎫 Comedy Tour Tickets Here: https://markgagnonlive.com🎩👽 Daily Dose Of History Here: https://www.dailytodayinhistory.comTimestamps:0:00 Welcome to Camp1:30 Nick Is In The Epstein Files!8:26 Black Market Babies + Epstein’s Cloned Children16:01 Disturbing Discoveries in The Files26:47 Epstein's Security Footage + Bondi’s Redacted Files33:45 Ghislaine Maxwell in Mexico + Unnecessary Redactions39:20 Pizza and Grape Soda Reference 50:26 Controversial Indian Gurus + Rogan Denies Epstein Invite58:29 Leonardo DiCaprio Asked Epstein For Money1:02:37 Epstein’s ‘Torture’ Video + Epstein’s Jail Time1:08:57 Keeping Victims Quiet1:17:28 Tracking Down Victim1:28:46 The Next Jeffery Epstein1:33:29 Epstein’s CIA Connection + Boystown1:41:34 Epstein’s Shady Connection1:52:35 Altering Trans Genetics1:58:56 Pam Bondi Caught Lying#podcast #epsteinfiles #crime #educational #education #knowledge

I'm curious, who do you think is the next Jeffrey Epstein? Okay, so I was told that there was a Jeffrey Epstein understudy. Jeffrey Epstein's new email release last week has showed the world just how evil this man truly was. And today, I have a guest on to talk about it that truly might be the best person for the job. He is a thorn in Jeffrey Epstein's side, and he himself was actually named in the files for going against Epstein so viciously. Nick Bryant has been investigating trafficking operations since 2003. and he's one of the first reporters in America to start covering Jeffrey Epstein. Before the Netflix documentaries, before the coverage and the arrest,

Nick Bryant knew that something was off. While the mainstream media looked the other way, for years, Nick Bryant stayed on the case, connecting all the dots, finding the little slip-ups, making all the connections. Infamously, in 2015, he's the one that published Epstein's Black Book and Flight Logs, just showing the public for the first time how deep this all really goes. And today, we're going through the most recent,

Jeffrey Epstein email release, going through the most vile and horrific emails that Nick Bryant has compiled. He goes through all the co-words, the co-conspirators, the connections, and he follows the money to figure out who's really involved in all this. If you want to know the answer to questions like these, who's involved, how deep does it go, how many people are implicated, and of course, who is the next Jeffrey Epstein? Well, this is the episode for you. Enjoy Nick Bryant. Welcome to Kim. Nick Bryant. Thank you so much for joining me. Can you be with you, Mark? Now, I've told the people a little bit in an intro before the episode started,

who you are. But you, just as a brief sort of introduction, you have been covering, maybe you could say, sex trafficking cults and operations for almost 25 years. Closer to 23. Come on. Come on. We can round up a little, all right? You wrote a great book called The Franklin Scandal discussing this massive sex trafficking operation

that was coming out of Omaha, Nebraska. that was international across the United States into the East Coast. And you, from that book, started getting interested in this guy named Jeffrey Epstein, started doing journalism on him in 2003, 2004, something to that extent? Well, actually, I came across,

the first Epstein-related sojourn I made to Florida was in October of 2011. I've said it was, I thought it was January of 2012, but I ended up in the Epstein files. Right. So this is what I wanted to ask you. So you start covering Epstein. You publish infamously his black book onto the internet. And now you have an entire foundation called Epstein-Steen Justice. Yes. Where you're working to get justice for the survivors of Epstein's sex trafficking operation. Now, there's been a recent release of roughly three million emails and files related to Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking operation. Now, for the record, the FBI has said there is no external co-conspirators. conspirators or anyone that was being traffic to him. So in the interest of being in alignment with the FBI, that's obviously Bubkiss.

But there's been all these emails that have been released. And I want to go through a bunch of them. You have compiled a bunch through your website where you have many of the most salacious, strange, bizarre, and evil emails that have been uncovered through this giant tranche of files that have been released. And I think the most interesting place to start is right here with your name being referenced in the emails.

So can you explain? why you have been referenced in these emails, despite fighting for justice for so long? It's kind of an interesting story. I went down and I got Epstein's Black Book, and I called victims first, because I wanted to see. I mean, at this point, Jeffrey Epstein was a loan bail.

But there were accounts of multiple girls getting... But a grand jury said that he hadn't done a single... minor. And that exact same thing happened with the Franklin scandal of the book that I wrote. Actually, two grand juries said that no minors had been. So I went down there and the first victim, well, actually, I talked to her mother as she was in the room, but she was kind of communicating through it. And she had been 13 years old. And then I talked to another one who said that she'd been flown around. And then I talked to another one that said she'd been flown to an island. And at that point, I realized that I'm dealing with kind of a network very much like Franklin. So then I started calling, because I had all these numbers, I started calling Jeffrey Epstein's inner circle. And none of them picked up except for Sarah Kellan. And I said, hi, Sarah. I'm Nick Bryan.

I'm a journalist. And she was commiserating at how badly she's been treated in the media. Wow. which I found somewhat comedic. Apparently, she picked up on my cynicism. Can you share who Sarah Kellan is exactly? Sarah Kellan was like the right-hand woman of Galane Maxwell. Sarah Kellan led hundreds of lambs to the slaughter.

And she knew the whole scope of Jeffrey Epstein's operation. And she had a $4 million home in New York. and also a $2 million apartment in Miami. So she was taking care of pretty well. Wow. And so I called up Sarah Kellan, and apparently the bells and whistles came. And then there was an email that was sent to a bunch of people,

although we didn't, the center has been redacted. And they said, watch out for Nick Bryan. He's a journalist. He's asking around. And then they had a picture of me. So they had a picture of you in the email Yeah I didn't get to see the picture But there was a JPEG

And so they passed around my picture And I you know I'm kind of vain So I hope it was one of the better pictures That I have I hope they got my good side I mean so strange I mean this email right here from What is this October? November 11th

2011 Remind Jeffery Epstein to call Nick Bryant. Alarm. Yes. Remind Jeff. Now, almost certainly this is you. There's not another Nick Bryant that's involved in his circle.

There's another Nick Bryant that's a journalist, but I don't think that he was in Florida at that point. Now, this email was sent after you had acquired the Black Book and started calling around. Yeah. Interesting. And there's other references to you. There's three emails about me. The first one is, you know, beware of Nick Bryant. and have my picture.

And then there's this one, alarm, remind J.E. to call Nick Bryant. And then the third one is to remind Epstein again to call me. So he never called me. Yeah. Why do you think that is? I have no idea. Strange.

Yeah. Yeah, there's just. They might have Googled me and saw my work on the Franklin scandal and other things and looked at me as kind of a threat. Wow. Now, this got sent to many people. Yes. Just a heads up, there's a journalist calling around. His name is Nick Bryant.

This is what he looks like, so you're all aware. And it's sent to Rich Barnett, Rich Kahn, Larry Vesawski. He's a pilot, one of the pilots. So these are all people with the day-to-day operations of Epstein's sort of life and his inner circle, you can say. So, okay, these are not power brokers to the degree that we might talk about later. Indyke is a affluent lawyer.

Okay. And I'm sure Viskoski made a lot of money. Anne Rodriguez, I would suggest that your audience look her up. Okay. Because there were, from what I understand, I mean, and Rodriguez is a person of interest for me. Now, I was, been told that there were like 2,000 emails with her name on it, and now there's 200.

I haven't been able to follow up on it. I've been kind of busy lately. I can imagine. So you just put this out on your website. You put out basically an entire sort of organized file of all these different emails that you've kind of analyzed. And this is at Nick Bryant, NYC.com. And some of the emails here, just to kind of go through,

you've sort of classified them into different categories that are extremely evil. And what is the other category? Well, there's horrors. Mm-hmm. And then there's pizza, shrimp, muffins, et cetera. And then there's celebrity, and then there's transhumanism and cloning. And then there's FI-C-I-M-A-M-Aid. Okay. Well, let's move through some of them. So this one says, Black Market

Babies. What is this one? Okay. I'm not 18. I don't know if I could... You're older. As long as you're older. Okay, okay. Okay. So this one was sent on December 29th, 2020. And it says, woman who accused John of God, a cult leader, of the R word mysteriously. And it says, blank spoke of this going on at Zorro Ranch. This is Epstein's residence in the southwest, New Mexico. She has said on record that Epstein offered her money to do this,

birth babies for black market use. So, this email comes, obviously, after Jeffrey Epstein has died. What do you suspect this email is from, and why is this being released in these files? I, you know, I've, I've, I've, I've spoken at a bunch of conferences about trafficking. And I have had people come up to me afterwards and say that they had been quote-unquote breeders. They had been used as breeders.

So this wasn't completely a foreign idea to me, that there are women that are used to carry babies. And actually, Virginia Jew free, Maxwell and Epstein wanted her to carry a baby before they sent her to Thailand. And that was one of the things that was like the critical mass. And then she was supposed to pick up like a little, eight-year-old kid. And that was, and then she met her husband and told him about it, and then they moved to Australia, which is where he was from.

And now, this information comes from Virginia Gouffrey's personal testimony? Nobody's girl, her autobiography. Got it. Interesting. So this is saying that it's said on record that Epstein offered her money to do this. Now, ostensibly, this is Epstein's children. or is this other children for some of their use? You know, I have no idea.

The thing is, it's in the mid-90s, Dolly the sheep was cloned. And it's very easy to clone anybody or any type of, if you've got an ovum, you take the DNA out of the ovum and then you insert the DNA that you want and then you apply an electrical charge. And it starts the mitosis process in the cell split. I mean, sometimes the electrical charge will start the process.

Sometimes it won't. And at that point, when Dolly, the sheep was cloned, and this is even before I got into all this really dark stuff with the Wrangles guy, I thought to myself, there's got to be megalomaniag billionaires out there that are cloning themselves. If a sheep can be cloned. And actually, I think you can get a French bulldog cloned in New York City for $65,000. Yeah, absolutely. There's been, people have been doing this.

with their pets for a while. And you had mentioned this to me last time you were here. You had mentioned that there was a woman who claims that there was like incisions on her stomach near her uterus that, and you had basically suggested. I don't know exactly where the information came from. Maybe you can explain it again. Well, it was Julia Bryant. And now, I don't know exactly why she went unconscious at Zoro Ranch or passed out or

something like that. and she said that she woke up and there was a female doctor there and she was in stirrups and that they were harvesting her albums. So. Now, I remember you telling me this and I was a little bit skeptical.

And I think reasonably so. It's a pretty wild and, I mean, morbid claim. But seeing the amount of conversations here about, you know, children and eugenics and cloning and all of this weird sort of transatlantic sort of transhumanist conversation. Baby editing. Yeah.

It's, uh, there's just so many emails that are related to this that I find it. Yeah. So strange that I thought back on that conversation, I was like, oh, wow. I owe, I owe Nick an apology from my, my, uh, my, uh, incredulousness. But yeah, it's, it's interesting. Like, there's even another email where, uh, Prince Andrews wife, ex-wife, rather, congratulate, congratulates Epstein on having a baby boy. Yeah.

What do you make of that? bizarre well it's bizarre but again I mean you've got a Epstein was a megalomaniac and he had the money to clone himself

I mean I don't think it's completely divorced from reality to think that he cloned himself did you ever see the movie boys from Brazil no it was about it was about mangola cloning all these

little laid off Hitler's. Right. And, um, not literally, but there are like twins that exist in, in Brazil to this day. Yeah. Well, that's, that's something kind of different. Oh, okay. It's, um, Nietzsche's, uh, uh, sister married a white supremacist and they moved to Irogo and started a colony called New Germany. And, uh, and she was a rabid anti-Semite. Nietzsche wasn't, um, but she rewrote parts of his last book, Will the Power, and made it anti-Semitic. But anyway, so her husband, and they brought this crew of Germans to Irogui or Paraguay, one or the other, and then they just, they looked at like the Indians as, or the Native Americans as culturally inferior, so they just were breeding

amongst themselves. And I saw this documentary a while back where New Germany was visited, and You had a lot of people running around. Wow. But they had blonde hair and blue eyes. There you go. The master race. It's all that matters. But in boys in Brazil, that's what happened is it's fictitious, but Mangala supposedly cloned Adolf Hiller a number of times.

And then put him in a, put him in families where his dad was like a civil, Hillary's dad was a civil servant. So put him in families where there was like a civil servant. Wow. And a passive mother. And you're suggesting that it's possible that Epstein was trying to pass on his genetics in some way out there, literally, or through some type of cloning mechanism. I mean, just the fact that Fergie would say, oh, congrats on the baby boy. Like, what else could that? I mean, like a dog, maybe?

We got, like, a pet? Like, it's, I don't know. I mean, if you were a megalomaniac and you had millions of dollars, it just seems like it would be. be kind of a natural thing where you'd want to clone yourself. So you would live on. You would have immortality, at least that way. And it wouldn't surprise me if that was Jeffrey Epstein's go. There's another disturbing file.

I don't know if you have it in this sort of selection here, but it's a girl writing a diary entry, discussing having a child and being held down while she's having the child, and then the child being taken away. from her. Yeah, I came across that. What is that? Like, did you have a theory as to what that was? In my years of looking into this, as I said, some women are used as quote-unquote breeders. There was an amazing study that was done. It's called the Extreme Abuse Survey. And if your audience wants to really go down the rabbit hole, they can look up the extreme abuse survey. It's done by four researchers, two psychologists from Germany, one psychologist from the United States.

and then a woman named Carol Rutz, who was a mind control survivor. And actually, she wrote a book called A Nation Betrayed. She was like the first mind control survivor to really come out and talk about that. And the Extreme Abuse Survey has multiple categories of different types of abuse. And that's one of the categories. And like 400 people responded to that questionnaire. So, wow. I would suggest that you check out.

extreme reservate. And it talks about all kinds of really horrific things, but you've got multiple people saying that, you know, this or that. And it's, it's shocking. Yeah. It's such a challenging thing with these files specifically because there's no doubt that Jeffrey Epstein was this psychopathic megalomaniac monster that was doing this, I mean, perhaps the worst evil you can do to, you know, fellow humans. And with that, you have to, you have. have all these emails that sort of show his inner dealings, and some of them are so mundane and kind of innocuous and kind of, you know, blasé.

But then you have others that are so morbid and sort of, you know, curious and, like, sexual and bizarre. And then you also have these anonymous tips that are the most salacious, but also the least verifiable. And it's all just kind of flooded at the same time. And it's hard to really parse, okay, what is credible, what is a little bit, you know, less credible. I'm curious when you're going through these files,

How do you assess what to apply the most time and energy into? Because not every person's name of the files is necessarily, you know, this pedophilic monster. But how do you approach that? I just, you saw what I've done. I've gleaned a bunch of them and put them into categories. And it's really up for people to decide what they think. But I have come across this information before.

In the Franklin scandal, there were accounts of children getting murdered. And there was a network in Detroit out of Detroit. And it was run by a guy named Francis, or it was affiliated with a guy named Francis Sheldon, who was a very wealthy guy. And he had Fox Island in Lake Michigan. And he would fly kids in to Fox Island and make some material in his buddies with him. And there was an offshoot of that on that work that started killing kids.

A woman named Marty Keenan wrote a pretty good book about it. It's called The Snow Murderers. And what I've seen with really evil house is they like to be sadistic. And there were Epstein clients that like. liked to be sadistic to the little girls. And I think that they just take it further and further and further. And that's my extrapolation on it. Interesting.

I mean, it's brutal and it's so morbid. But I guess the nature of their sadism is that it has to keep on getting elevated. Virginia talks about a prime minister in her book and how he really roughed her up and asphyxiated her. And he, he's a nasty piece of work. Does she say him by name or just?

No, she said prime minister. I see. Chris, could you scroll up here to the very top? There's one with Epstein and Leon Black specifically. Yeah, Leon got a little sadistic with that girl. Yeah. So this email is strange. So this one, it says here,

Now, again, scrolling up, this is from May 26, 2023. So again, after Epstein's death. And it says with, it says, call with Janine Christensen. And it says here, Leon Black, Wall Street Person, founded largest private equity global fund, one of Epstein's friends. And then it has redacted line that says, seven to eight years, Black was sexually violent with her.

Black bites part of her genitals. Violence was arousing for him. Very painful for her. uh j c represented victim for civil defamation case not sex abuse scandal went to the u s ao in manhattan j c doesn't represent her anymore and it goes on to sort of discuss more about the legal dealings of this it says victim says black uh sexually assaulted her around 20 years ago that's not the exact word i'm just changing it for monetization uh in epstein's townhouse victim described it felt like pain um on massage table with head on floor legs on His shoulders excruciating. I mean, it's extremely brutal. I mean, it says abuse in here pretty directly. Abuse happened in New York.

What do you make of this email? Where is it coming from? And what is the purpose of it existing in these files? Well, I think that someone and some type of authority took her statement. I mean, I think that that's where this come from. And you can see in other documents where, authorities are taking people's statements. And with this, what's, the media has been just so disingenuous regarding Jeffrey Epstein.

So Leon Black gave Jeffrey Epstein $160 million. And actually, Jeffrey Epstein was kind of mean to Leon Black. It wasn't polite with him quite a bit, but he gave Leon Black a hundred and sixty million dollars. And the media has said the reason why he gave Liam Black or Liam Black gave Jeffrey Epstein a hundred sixty million dollars was because Epstein was helping him with his taxes. Right. Tax advice. I've heard this before. Yeah. And like with Les Wexner, and this is from Vanity Fair, which is somewhat sophisticated, um, the reason why Les Wexner gave Jeffrey Epstein power of attorney over his vast fortune in 1990. And

was because it was lonely. Right. I mean, so you look at the excuses that the mainstream media has made for these people. Would it surprise me that Leon Blank is sadistic to girls? I'm, no, I wouldn't. So that's what this, you're suggesting that this comes from some type of statement, from some type of authority.

Yeah. Regarding his behavior. Now, why would he not be prosecuted for this? because EBC and Maxwell had no co-conspirators. I mean, where do you, if the Department of Justice and FBI were going to start indicting co-conspirators, where would you stop? Right. I mean, that's, I mean, on Sunday, the FBI came out after all these emails and said that Jeffrey E. E.m. McHawley had no co-conspirators.

So that is the Maginot line right there. And Leon Black is safely behind the Maginot line. Right. But if the prosecution start, he's probably going to be at the top of the line. Right. I mean, it says here seven to eight years. I'm assuming that's years old was the age of the victim. It's difficult to really assess.

Yeah. But that also kind of paints a different picture of this whole thing because at a certain point, it's been, as stated to the public, that the youngest Epstein victim was like 13, 14. No, that's categorically wrong. I, because I've spoken at various conferences over the years, I've gotten a no therapists that work with survivors. And I know two therapists that worked with, and I believe them, and actually one of them is a very eminent psychologist. And they both worked with victims of Epstein or victims who were trafficked when they were under 10 years old. So why does the public believe that the youngest was 1313? Because that's what the media and the government have sold them.

And people don't want to. And it's very strange. You've got like Megan Kelly who was harassed ad nauseum by Roger Ail. You'd think that she would have some kind of empathy towards sexual abuse victims. But you've got people like her claiming that 14-year-old or 15-year-olds have agency. And I think that – and a lot of people are standing behind that, that 14-year-olds or 15-year-olds have agency. But when you get to 11-year-olds or 9-year-olds, then the agency argument kind of dissipates. Yeah, it makes no sense to me.

I mean, like, you can be sex trafficked at 25. You can be sex trafficked at 30 years old. So, like, the fact that, like, to me, the fact that there's a, you know, that you're telling me, like, there's victims under 10, it just makes it more grotesque. And actually, that's come out in the files. Right. I mean, even this email, whether or not this is valid, this is true or not, it's probably worth saying that at this point in time, Leon Black has not had formal criminal charges

related to, you know, sexual abuse or anything like that, levied against And the only relationship he had with Jeffrey Epstein is Jeffrey Epstein helped him with his taxes. Right. Which, you know, it's not illegal for to help you with their taxes. But is that the extent with their relationship? It is not. There have been other allegations against Sam Black,

other than this. Jeffrey Epstein really leveraged him hard. He rode Leon Black very hard. I just don't get what leverage Epstein would have on someone like Leon Black. Was it just that he... Was this sadistic guy that wanted access to what Epstein had, like that, you know, Epstein was his fixer? Was there some other type of power play happening here?

Well, Epstein, all of his homes were wired for audiovisual blackmail. And if someone has footage of an individual, someone who's underage, they're owned. Right. There's no escape from that. Mm-hmm. And they're going to be obsequious regardless of what happens. Right. And it's pretty obvious that Liam Black, and as I said, there are other allegations about him,

but nothing's ever happened to him legally because he's behind the Maginot Line. Right. But there's also weird discrepancies with that. There's the initial filing from the FBI when they raid Epstein's home suggesting that there is cameras in many of the rooms. Yes. And then there's a later statement saying that there are not cameras, but yet in some of the pictures that are released of his rooms, you can see cameras in the room.

Like, he's sort of surreptitiously hidden on top of, you know, the top kind of banister thing. It's just strange that there's so much back and forth on this topic. Well, our government has worked very hard to cover up Jeffrey Epstein and his little enterprises. And for Pam Bondi, and I, this was actually a tragic, but it's humorous to a certain degree because it's so, ridiculous. Pam Bonnie said that agents and DOJ personnel were going through the videos that had been impounded from Jeffrey Epstein. So, and according to her, there's thousands of them. And so these videos were impounded in 2019. And then the Justice Department just put them in a corner where they were gathering dust and didn't look at them.

I mean, till 2025, I mean, that that is patently absurd. Right. I mean, they were doing, I'm sure that there were agents doing double shifts. And she also said that the videos included Jeffrey Epstein miners. And then- She said that. Yeah, she liked that back, too. Wow.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I refuse to believe that these files were just sitting there. I mean, this is the most explosive and perhaps politically impactful story of the last 25, 15th. years perhaps. And I mean, with so many political enemies on either side, I can't imagine that the Biden administration or Merrick Garland wouldn't be trying to go through these files to find information on Trump and that they would just let it, you know, go. It makes enough sense. My take on this is, I mean, the cover-ups started under Bush 2, the cognitively challenged

George Bush. And then it went through Obama and then it went through Trump and then it went through Trump and then it went through Biden. And then Trump ran that he was going to offer, you know, that he was going to expose. Right. And I think that Trump thought Epstein is a Pandora's box. Bush, too, built the box. Obama and Biden made sure that they didn't open the box. And I think that the Trump administration felt like they could open the box ever so slightly and then slam it shut. But with Pandora's box, once you open it, the curse comes out. And there's no getting the curse back into the box. And I think Trump found that. When the Trump administration came out with those very disingenuous documents that were given to the influencers and the white minors,

when I put the black book up in 2015, we redacted adults number. numbers. And when it came to the victims under, generally under massage, there was the victims. And there were like 174 names under massage, uh, massage, Florida, massage, New Mexico, massage, LA. And, and that's where I found the victims is under massage. Wow. So I told Gawker, we've got to redact their last names and their numbers. And so that's what we did. We did the right thing. And then when I saw Bondi's release of the black book that I put up, everything was blacked out. Right. Exactly. So, I mean, and then the flight logs too. I mean, I put more incriminating information on the internet in 2015 than she did initially in 2025. Right. Ten years before you

use more information than she did under, you know, federal order. Yeah. Bizarre. What's up, guys? We're going to take a because I got to give a shout out to brunt workwear. All right? These boots surprise the hell out of me. Now, if you've ever worn work boots, you know the deal. You can either get durable or you can get comfortable, all right? Either they're durable and they destroy your feet or they're comfortable, and then they last for like a week and then they fall apart.

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Okay, let's go through another email here. Maxwell and Young Girl in Mexico? What is that one? That one's a little ominous. This is not the one we were mentioning before. No. Okay, so this comes from someone named, Ken T.

And it was sent to an unknown redacted person. It says, young girl here in Mexico. It says, she has identified Glane Maxwell as a woman who came to Richard Marcinko's home in Mexico many times in 2010 and 2011 with Nancy Marsenko to set up sexual trips for her when she was 10 or 11. We know of death threats against her

because of testimony she gave in 2018 against Kelly Biden and Wayne in the sex abuse case in Mexico. Right now, we have her in a safe location. We want you guys to know, but we also need to protect her, her son, and her guardian. Hmm. There again, you've got girls that are very young. And Virginia's Uffreve, with her affidavit, I think it was in 2014. She said that she had attended orgies with girls as young as 12. And there were, there was an Australian daily called The Age. I think it's out of Sydney. And they spent a lot of time in the Virgin Islands investigating. Jeffrey Epstein. And they said that the victims were as young as 11 or 12. So, and then these

therapists that I know have corroborated that. So I don't think. And, you know, these guys are psychopaths. When I wrote the Franklin scandal, those pimps were primarily end up pubsine boys. But if you wanted an eight-year-old, they would get you an eight-year-old. I mean, that's the way that these, they're psychopaths. And they want to appease their clients. And I think Epstein was primarily into, I don't know, 13, 14, 15-year-old girls. But if you want an 8-year-old, he didn't have any. Like, it's not like he had to bother with his conscience.

Right. Now, I can accept that that is true what you're saying as far as the ages of these victims and survivors. Is it also possible that this email is not true, that this was sent from an anonymous person trying to stir up information or to falsely frame someone in an inaccurate way? Because again, we just have this anonymous email. Well, we, it's not, yeah, I mean, it's anonymous now

because of the redaction. Right. But it's, that, that is entirely possible. But so it's, it's entirely possible that, it's some kind of deception, but it's also entirely possible that it's true, too. Right. Given what we know. And I guess the reasonable position would be, let's investigate it.

Well, that would, but there's no co-conspirators, so we're not going to investigate it. Right. That's a problem. Yeah. Yeah, I guess in the interest of truth, I would want all of the fraudulent and, you know, fake emails to be investigated and proven fake. And I want all of the legitimate emails to be investigated and all the co-conspirators that are involved in this operation

to be convicted and serve their sentence, whatever it may be in a court of law. Well, the, the Epstein, that act, I mean, there isn't supposed to be these redactions. Oh, really? Yeah. So even the redactions here are unconstitutional, or maybe not unconstitutional,

but maybe against what the federal law. Yeah. Interesting. So from what I understand and from what Thomas Massey had said, that the perps were not to be redacted. Only the victims were to be redacted. But now everything is heavily redacted. I mean, there's even an email that's saying politicians,

you know, wealthy business people, et cetera, should be redacted. in one of the emails, basically telling them that we're going to redact whatever we want. Yeah. Yeah. Bizar. Well, I mean, the Trump administration

really hasn't followed the law that Donald Trump signed in. So we can't really expect them to start following the law now. Right. But I will say this. I'm kind of amazed at a lot of the stuff that was released.

Yeah. I mean, because it is in line with things that I've investigated previously and what other people have told me. So. Right. And shout out to Thomas Massey and Roecona for their sort of unwavering dedication to this issue and not politicizing it. I mean, yeah. And having sort of like this joint, you know, bipartisan support. They are really good guys. Mm-hmm. Donald Trump is having billionaires finance. Thomas Massey's opponent right now in the primaries. Right. Um, and I really hope Thomas, Thomas Massey can keep his seat. I think there's a lot of people in Kentucky that really, uh, like him and respect what he's done.

Right. But his opponent's just being deluged with money. Mm-hmm. Now, um, there's a couple strange things in here relating to keywords. So there's this one that, uh, the, the shrimp one right at the bottom from, uh, yeah, right there. So this is an email. Seems like it's to Jeffrey Epstein.

And it says, no, some are like shrimp. You throw away the heads and you keep the body. Now, that's in response to, as long as you don't have any hammerhead ones, I like white sharks. So scroll down a little bit more, crezos. This is just a, seems like there's some euphemistic language happening here. I like white sharks. And then scroll up, it says, no, some are like shrimp. You throw away the body.

And then it says, I like shrimp. but not so much if it's too pink. I'm more into white than any other color. I like your philosophy. Go to the next slide, Christos. It says, I built a friend that built the Beijing airport wanted to know, and then scroll up a bit.

It says, very nice, where are you now? Scroll up a little bit more. I'm on my island in the Caribbean with an aquarium full of girls. And then scroll up a little. It says, the King of Saudi Arabia has a few white sharks in his at his Jeddah Palace. I totally prefer prefer yours.

Sure, I would enjoy the view. Two are Russians, I guess some might refer to them as white sharks. So there's much more to this correspondence. That's sort of this strange coded language. It seems like some of it is not so coded. I mean, aquarium full of girls is like pretty obvious. I would think, yeah.

And from this Google search here, he's a diplomat, a former advisor in the diplomatic unit of former French president, Nicholas Sarkozy. So that's what I found here, this guy, Olivier Colum. There he is, yeah. And so these emails are just so bizarre. I mean, references to white sharks and I like white sharks and I'm in an aquarium full of girls. And some are like shrimp.

You have to remove the head. And oh, I hate the smell of black shrimp. Like there's this weird racialized, misogynistic coded language. What do you make of this? Well, it's weird racial misogynistic coded language. I mean, if I put some smart money down, I would say that Oliver Colom doesn't really like African-Americans. That would be my guess. I mean.

I think it's a bold claim. Yeah. I mean, again, I think it's worth referencing that Oliver Colom has not had a legal charge as pressed against him for sexual abuse. Yes. Yeah. In the interest of being fully transparent. But with that said, these emails are just so, so bizarre. I mean, some are like shrimp, you remove the head.

I've seen people online suggest that this is about actual dismemberment. Yeah, I've seen that too. I've also heard people suggest that this is a euphemism, like a joke, where, like, you know, girls with ugly faces, you'd call them shrimps. I've heard people say this. What do you think of this? I don't know. Mm-hmm.

I would have to think that he's referring to girls. Mm-hmm. or women. Okay, let's pop into another email, shall we? Again, more weird, coded language here, pizza and grape soda. Okay, Harry Fish, he's kind of interesting. Okay, so click on, nope. Is that Carrie Fish or Harry Fish?

It's Harry Fish. That one right there? Yeah, I misspelled. Okay. So, Harry likes pizza and grape soda. Yeah. And I got his number. He's actually a gifted urologist.

an eminent urologist. So yeah, this is from Harry Fish to Epstein. Yeah. Holy shit, chunky. I forgot about that. What time do you want to get pizza and grape soda tomorrow? This is in June of 2018. This is between a gifted urologist and also a billionaire talking about eating pizza and grape soda.

So I found Harry's phone number. I'm pretty good at finding people's cell phone numbers. And it's just years of being an investigative journalist. You get pretty good at that. you know what database is to hit. So I left Harry a message. And I said, Harry, my name's Nick Bryan. I'm a journalist.

I'd like to talk to you about pizza and grape soda. And then he never got back to me, which kind of surprised me. But then I texted him. And I said, Harry, it's Nick Brian again. And actually, I put it on Twitter. And I said, what is your favorite type of pizza? just for my own personal identification. And what is your favorite brand of grape soda?

And he never got back to me. So I've left a voicemail for him, I've texted him, and Harry doesn't want to talk to me. I'm hurt by that, man. Now, that really hurts me. Yeah, it's interesting that he, you know, he's seen forthcoming and interested to talk about pizza and grape soda

with his friend Jeffrey Epstein in 2018. And I thought he would talk to me about pizza and grape soda. Yeah, I guess. maybe you're not briefed in in the club. You might not be one of the cool guys. I was kind of offended by Harry. Yeah, it makes sense. I completely understand. Now, I've heard people suggest that pizza,

as it relates to, obviously, the Pizza Gate story, conspiracy theories, some have said, that kind of came out of this 2020 email leak. Some people suggest that pizza refers to young boys, or I've heard of in reference to, you know, just children in general. I've heard it reference to CP, obviously meaning, which we might have to censor that part,

but also being cheese pizza and it's a code word. Do you think that that's what's happening here? Yeah, I looked into PizzaGate. Given my philosophic training, I try to approach everything agnosticly. And the stuff that I've uncovered over the years is I've covered some very bizarre stuff where, you know, if I told people about, before any of this started hitting the Internet,

if I told people about some of the stuff that I discovered, you know, they'd just write me off as crazy. I mean, I experienced that quite a bit. Sure. So with Pizza Gate, I looked into it, and I looked into it, and I found a guy who could get me to the guy, who could give me some answers. and then it just evaporated. So I, that was it. I mean, I wasn't willing to put any more time into it.

And I just moved on. But I think, and now, Pizagate has been completely thought of as a conspiracy theory. Sure. But, you know, the term conspiracy theory is, it's a very strange term. In 1967, the CIA put out a dispatch, because a lot of people were questioning the Warren Commission. Actually, I think the majority of Americans were questioning the Warren Commission, which is reasonable. And the CIA said in the dispatch, people that questioned the Warren Commission were going to position them as conspiracy theorists. And then they had like a litany of things that,

are negative about conspiracy theorists. And prior to that dispatch, the Washington Post, the New York Times used conspiracy theorists maybe once a year, very sporadically. But after that dispatch, it went up exponentially. So conspiracy theorist is a great, I mean, the CIA guy who thought that up, I mean, his family should get royalties for that.

Because it's so easy. I mean, when people experience cognitive dissonance, when I was pitching the Franklin scandal to various editors, I was, you know, I'd look into their eyes and by the time I was pitching it to them, I had a lot of evidence. I had like a list of 60 victims. And I had a bunch of seal grand jury stuff. And I would be looking at these editor's eyes.

and I could see, well, this is a horrible story. I should help Nick Bryan out. Or, you know, I can just write Nick Brian off as crazy right now and have a nice meal with my family tonight. I never think about it. And I knew that most were going to go that route, but I didn't think all of them were going to go that route. But every editor that I pitched it to, publisher,

I could just, when I, when I, when I, I would do it in person. I could see the cognitive dissonance bubble up right before me. And then the default. Right. Let's write Nick Bryn off. So the actual code words here, though, pizza and grape soda. Do you know what those mean?

I have no idea. Have you heard theories about grape soda in particular? Obviously pizza, I think people are a bit more familiar with. But grape soda, what is that? Yeah, I've got no idea. Do you think that it means what they're saying? Do you think it literally could be pizza and grape soda? Or do you think it's likely a code word?

So you've got an. eminent urologist and someone who's a billionaire, does it really strike you that they would go out for pizza and grape soda? It seems strange to me, and it seems oddly specific. So. I can see him being like, hey, let's grab a bite and then going to get pizza. But then pizza and grape soda keep or come up elsewhere too. Right. So, and Jeffrey Epstein really doesn't.

I mean, he had a chef that flew with him. him everywhere he went. He was very, very meticulous about what he ate. Right. He does not strike me as a pizza and grape soda kind of guy. Right. And it's also just a strange, specific language to put into an email. And I know some rich people, perhaps not billionaire billionaires, but very few of the richest

people I know are they, you know, eating pizza and grape soda on a regular basis. So it strikes me a strange. What do you think? Strikes me is very strange. I don't, I don't know what it means, though. Like, is it possible- It's hard to define? Is it possible grape soda could be drugs? Is it possible it could be some other type of illicit thing, perhaps?

Is it possible it is trafficking young children also possible? That's why I just want some type of investigation, someone to, you know, talk to Mr. Harry Fish under oath and in some type of, you know, private or public. I can give you a number after I've gone here. You can give them a call. I mean, I didn't have much like that. But, you know, tell him you've got a pretty big podcast. Yeah, maybe he'll come on. And say Harry, you know, come on my podcast.

He lives in Manhattan. Oh, great. Okay, so maybe he'll bump in them. He's close. So there's other things in here. There's Deepak Chopra possibly asking Epstein to arrange younger women. I mean, what is this from?

And then there's one where Deepak Chopra says... God is a construct? God, yeah, God is a construct. Cute girls are real or something like that. Yes. And then he recently put out a statement here. You can click on one of these Christos. Yeah, there we go.

Cute girls. God is a construct. Cute girls are real. So this is a message from Deepak Chopra to Jeffrey Epstein in 2017. God is a construct cute girls are real. Now, in fairness to Deepak Chopra, he did put out a statement suggesting that he had no involvement with any type of wrongdoing and that his time with Epstein is regrettable. I mean, see.

how they run. Could you pull up his exact statement so we can get the full story here? I, uh, who's Deepak Chopra, first off? Deepak Chopra is, uh, Hindu guru. Mm-hmm. And I lived on the ashram of a Hindu guru when I was, um, 19 years old. Mm-hmm. It was, uh, it was in Holunzel, Pennsylvania.

It was on a mountain. And I was talking. I was talking to the Swami. He was a Swami. He was a holy man from India, a celibate on. He was supposedly one with the Godhead. So I was talking to the Swami one day. And I could have swore I spelled cigarettes on his breath.

And I went to one of the people on the ashram who I'd eventually term one of the pod people. I went to one of the pods. And I said, you know, I could have swore. I smelled cigarettes on Swami's breath. That couldn't be possible, could it? And he said, well, here's the deal with that. He has to have one vice to keep him tethered to this plane of reality so he can teach us. And then I found out he was having, and he was supposed to be a celibate, then I found out he was having sex with half the girls on the archery.

And then I found out that he was embezzling money from his mom. more effluent initiates. And I thought to myself, this guy has got to be really spiritually advanced. If he has to do all of that to stay on this planet rally, he's so grounded. So I looked into every Indian guru I could possibly find, and they all have lower chakra perilsactions. Yeah. It's a thing. And I think a lot of them come here. They're corrupt, but I think some of them come here and they're not corrupt. But it's just too much for them. The power corrupts, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, the young, beautiful American girls

that are spiritually starved that look upon them as an enlightened being. It's just, it's too much for these guys. And I think Deepak Trot probably hit that trap, too. Right. And had some type of familiarity with Epstein. Now, his statement says, here, I'm deeply saddened by the suffering of the victims. I want to be clear, I was never involved with,

nor did I participate in any criminal or exploitative conduct, any contact I had was limited unrelated to abuse activity and he goes on to say that he's trying to support victims and prevention and that he regrets the statements that he had shared with Epstein at the time. Now what's interesting

about this is that Joe Rogan had also appeared in the files and people had mentioned some former guests of Rogan had basically tried to connect Epstein and Morgan. And Rogan recently was on his podcast and he basically says very clearly oh yeah they try to put me in touch

and then I Googled him one time and said, F, no, I'm not going to meet up with this guy. Yeah. So if Rogan has the wherewithal and the ability to do the due diligence and do one simple Google search and realize this guy's bad news, why couldn't all these other people?

Well, I mean, I think the answer is right before your very eyes. I mean, if you typed in Jeffrey Epstein, you would see that in the very least, he's a registered sex offender. Right. Now, How many people like to hang out with registered sex offenders?

Not many. Unless. So. They're doing something you might be interested in. So for Deepak Tropper to provide us with something that disingenuous, I think, just exacerbates my feelings of his guilt. Right. I've heard people make the claim like, oh, I was connected to this guy and I didn't look up who he was. And someone told me that it was some bullshit conviction that it was actually, you know, it

He was nothing. He was barely even in prison, and so I just kind of looked past it. And on the one hand, I was like, all right, I could see someone being connected and going to a dinner and not knowing all the details of everything. But then on the other hand, having some type of intimate correspondence where there's repeated emails back and forth, and you never just googled their name of this extremely rich guy, just to even think, like, oh, where did he get his money from? Or who does he know? And you never came across this information? It just seems convenient. So do you think Deepak Chopra is lying there? Lying is difficult, because I don't know if he's intentionally saying a falsehood, or if perhaps he's just omitting the truth. I don't know if he's been involved in sexual conduct with minors with Jeffrey Epstein.

Even though cute girls are real and God's a construct. Right. I mean, cute girls might be 20 years old, and that might be what he's referencing. That is true. So I don't want to necessarily just completely throw him out there and say that he's this. But do you think that those emails that he's... He's writing at Jeffrey Epstein and his statement about, do you think that there's somewhat contradictory?

Totally, I think there's a contradiction. Okay. That on the one hand, with his statement, he's saying, this is completely abhorrent and I would never have any relationship with this guy, yada yada, it's terrible, paraphrasing. And then with his emails, there's quite a familiarity and a friendness. I did not have a sexual relationship with that woman, Monica Lewinsky. Right.

Yes, it feels like there's a tonal shift that happens. So whether he's lying or not, I can't. I've never met the guy. I don't know him. But it feels strange to have such a friendly relationship with this guy 10 years after he's convicted in Miami. And I have my own experience with Indian gurus and the experience of many other people, too. And they've all found that their Indian gurus had lower Shagher predilections. So it wouldn't surprise me if Epichobre has lower Shaihor predilections. Perhaps. I'm not going to cast all Indian gurus with the same, with the same blanket. I'm an old guy, and I've looked into a lot of Indian gurus, and I've never, you know, the Beatles really thought that Maharishi Maheshogi was like a great teacher. And then they went to his ashram in India, and then Maharishi started hitting on all the girls that came with the Beatles.

Sure. And we know about Bikram. Yeah. Infamously was assaulting many women within. So every Indian guru that I've ever looked into, and I know that this is a categorical. statement. Sure. But because of my experience with an Indian guru, I've looked into as many as I could possibly look into, and they all come up lower chakra. Yeah. So. I mean, I think that's probably a, uh, maybe perhaps a healthy and, uh, helpful kind of caution is that if you're getting

swept up with some type of, you know, spiritual leader that's tapping into all these sort of, you know, affects of Eastern mysticism to try to, you know, pull you into their web, maybe take a step back and consider what you're getting wrapped up in. Well, what the Swami did, at least his holiness of Annabro Shri Swarama that I lived with, he would tell the girls that they had been, you know, lovers in a past lifetime. So that was kind of his end. Extremely insidious. Now, there's a couple other things here.

You can tell me if there's a specific one you want to jump to. Epstein seemingly being invited to Mara Lago in 2012. Peggy Siegel, who's sick about Woody Allen being busted for incest. Leonardo DiCaprio apparently needed money in 2009. He goes to Jeffrey Epstein, who then contacts Peter Mandelson for non-U.S. sponsors for the megastar. That is a strange. That is very bizarre because...

Can you go to that one, Chris? says. Leonardo DiCaprio would seemingly have millions and millions and millions of dollars. Right. So this email is from June 12th, 2009, from Jeffrey Epstein to a man named Peter Mandelson. And he was the UK ambassador to the United States, Peter Manelson. And it says here, can you think of anyone in India, China, Japan, etc., that might want the endorsement of Leonardo DiCaprio, Russia, etc., cars, etc. He's looking for non-U.S. products to endorse to make some money.

In 2009, that is strange. That one caught my attention, too. I didn't. It just seems kind of incongruent. So DeCaprio is looking for money. And whether or not he needed money, I don't know if we can assess that from the email, but he wanted to get some type of sponsorship for some reason. If you travel to Europe or Asia, there's a bunch of America. stars that are on billboards. Right. That would never be on billboards here.

Right. So that's kind of a common practice for Hollywood glitter-a-type. Now, why does he go to Jeffrey Epstein? Or how does Epstein get the liaison for this job? I have no idea. And I really don't think Leonardo DiCaprio is going to tell us how we met Jeffrey Epstein.

If you ever did. Yeah. I don't know if you ever did me to him. Yeah. But at the very least, Epstein is willing to do this deal for him. Yeah. Is, you know, willing to put in some favors with a pretty high ranking guy.

One would think that they've talked about it. I mean, one would think. I mean, I'm not 100% on that, but. I would presume. Yeah. I would presume. It's possible that, you know, DiCaprio's agent happened to know Epstein and reached out or something to that effect. Who's to say?

But it is interesting that Epstein is willing to call in a favor with someone, to help out Leonhard de Capri of all people. And, and, uh, Mandelson, actually, he comes up with, uh, I believe a torture, something that has to do with torture. Mm. And, uh, can we pop back to the, uh, to the, to the, to the sheet here in Nick Bryant's website? What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because, uh, I just want to state the obvious.

You're not going to hire a chiropractor to do brain surgery. And if you're going to go fight in the octagon, you wouldn't hire a guy that, watches a lot of UFC. And if you have a personal injury case, you're not going to just, like, hire your buddy that's good with contracts. Because you know that when you're hurt, it's because someone else was negligent. You don't want just, you know, lawyery vibes. You want real lawyers. And that's where Morgan & Morgan comes in. They are America's largest injury law firm, with over 100 offices nationwide and more than 1,000 lawyers. Crazy thing, they've recovered over $30 billion for over 500,000 clients.

They've got a real track record of fighting to get people full and fair compensation. So if you are ever injured, you can check out Morgan and Morgan, and their fee is free unless they win. Yes, free. You literally don't pay anything unless they win your case. That's how confident Morgan and Morgan is that they can get compensation for you and your injuries. So for more information, go to for the people.com slash gagnon. That is F-O-R-the-people.com slash G-A-G-N-O-N-O-N or dial pound law. That is pound 529 and let them know that you got sent by the people here at the campsite.

Also, this is a paid advertisement. Now let's get back to the show. Okay, so it says here, this is from Jeffrey Epstein to an anonymous person that is redacted. It says, where are you? Are you okay? I loved the torture video. The person responds, I'm in China. I will be in the U.S. second week of May.

Send for my Blackberry wireless device. And the name is unredacted there. There were redactions initially that you could unredact. And I guess some of these documents have that. You copy them and then put them on Microsoft Word and that you can unredact them. Right. Or something to that effect. But Mandelson has been relieved of all his duties.

There was consequences for him. Right. Now, again, I don't know if this email was to Mandelson. I've heard different theories about who this email is from. Again, it is completely, it is redacted in the files that are released by the government. But that email is very strange, the torture video. I don't, do you have any theories as to what that is? I think that we're dealing with sadists here.

Mm-hmm. I mean, that's, I think, the bottom line. Now, I had heard a theory that there was a Middle Eastern billionaire who had basically been investigated for this bizarre torture video that he had recorded that eventually got smuggled out by people he was doing business with. Yeah. And it was around the same time. People suggested that perhaps that is the video that is being referenced in this email. Yeah, I don't know. But I know who you're talking about.

Salt and something or another from the United Arab Emirates. Perhaps. But, yeah, I don't know. Yeah. So it's just, again, another interesting and strange sort of interaction where these guys are talking about torture videos. And Jamie Raskin was looking through these documents and he found reference to a nine-year-old victim. So it's, and I don't have the link for the 11-year-old. But it's, it says like JPEG of 11-year-old. And it's sent to Jeffrey Epstein. Okay, so right here it is from a redacted person to Jeffrey Epstein says age 11 and then it has a full-size render.jepag.

Yeah. And that's the whole email. Why is someone sending, I've never sent that email age 11 with a picture. That seems very strange that that would be something included in an email to Jeffrey Epstein in 2016. What is this? Eight years after he was convicted as a pedophile, basically, or procuring a minor for prostitution? Well, that was 2008. Right.

So this is eight years after that. Yeah. And someone's sending an email saying age 11 to this guy. I mean, do you think that Jeffrey Epstein doing 13 months in a county jail where he is able to get out 12 hours a day? Do you think that – and he was having sex with at least one teenager that we know of? Right. Do you think that that was a speed bump for him? You would think.

And I don't think it was. But I don't think it was. I mean, if you look at everything that he'd gotten away with, And then he's got to do 13 months in a county jail. He has it dressed up like the Taj Mahal. Right. And then women, and I've got this from a very good source, women that are ostensibly helping his legal team come to the jail.

This is before he was getting out 12 hours a day. And they had a special room for him where he could consult with these young women that were helping him legally. So in the prison, it's possible he was continuing. In the jail. He was continuing with his criminal activities. In the jail. And there was,

DeSantis, there was actually an investigation into the Palm Beach sheriffs. And I believe that he was paying them off. Mm. And they kind of looked him as like a rock star. Bizarre. Yeah. Yeah, it's just, it's a shame that that's how the system is set up.

Again, I don't see this as an aberration of the system. I don't see this as a fluke. I see this as a feature of how the system operates, that the wealthiest people are able to buy legal protection, bribe the necessary people, and have enough money to commit their crimes completely covertly and without public scrutiny. Meanwhile, the poorest of society, the 95%, the average person,

is not able to get high-level legal representation. They're able or they're more willing to do things that are perhaps, you know, desperate that then leads to, you know, criminal trafficking, like a modeling job or something like that because of their financial situation. And that the way that our financial system is set up is that the richest point zero, you know, 0.01% are able to exploit the poorest 99%. I've been looking at child trafficking for many years. and traffickers are vicious people, as I've said before. I mean, whether they're living on the Upper East Side or they're in a trailer court in the Midwest, they're vicious people. The difference between the Upper East Side and the person, the trafficker in the trailer park is that the person and the trailer park will generally go to jail. Right.

Prison. Unless he's providing. to law enforcement. And then that's kind of a different equation. Right. In Minneapolis, like the prostitutes would do favors for the police officers to dispense sexual favors for the police officers.

And occasionally there would be like a roundup where they'd pick them all up in like a paddy wagon or something like that. But the ones that were dispensing favors to the police officers were told that there's going to be a roundup on Friday night or Saturday night. So, yeah, yeah.

Hmm. Now, there's another email that I mentioned to you. I don't know if you included it here, and perhaps Chris just can give it to Google, but it's someone emails Jeffrey Epstein and says, this girl, whose name is redacted, says that she loves Jesus and that God is protecting her, whoops. And then Jeffrey Epstein responds,

make sure you dress up like Jesus next time you see her. And to me, it's the most morbid, perhaps of all the emails. It's so sinister. Jay Dyer, do you know he is? He's a comedian. Yeah. He called it Satanic.

Yeah. I don't think he's wrong in saying that. So I would have to agree with... Yeah, and Christos is pulling up the exact email. But, I mean, that's basically the gist of it. There's something... And again, I think people are making the conclusion that this is a young girl that's saying this.

It's possible that's the case. But it's just so ominous. It's so strange. And it's, if it is a young girl that's suggesting, like, oh, God has helped me through hard times, and I believe in Jesus. And then the response to that is, whoops. It just leaves so much room for speculation as to what that means.

And almost any type of speculation is going to be the most tragic, morbid thing. It's, I don't know, it's unsettling to me. To me, that's the most disturbing. I don't think a lot of children and young women that came into Ebbsey in orbit. I don't think that it really was beneficial to them via their mental health.

And every Epstein survivor that I've talked to has had major issues. Right. And dealing with the trauma and the other things that people have to do with. Well, this, I think we talked about this a little bit before we started rolling. That is just such the insubesion.

assidious nature of this type of crime and how this sort of organized crime ring works, that I've heard people say, like, why don't the survivors just say the names? And it's like, well, first off, many of them have NDAs where they can't speak about what happened or they don't have access to the compensation fund from his original conviction. So that's like part of it. And I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. Well, the, the obscene victim's compensation fund, you can speak out if you get a settlement from it. You just can't sue anybody. Okay. And so it's not an NDA. It's a release. I see. And if you do, and if you want to litigate against someone, you've got to get permission by the attorneys. I see. So, and basically what the EBCM Victims' compensation program does, it ensures there's no depositions.

Right. Because depositions lead to disclosures that are unsavory. Right. So there's that element of it, where there's a red tape over who these, you know, survivors can speak out against. And then not to mention the psychological component of a very wealthy, powerful person coming after you, destroying you, destroying your entire family, either through legal means and just bleeding you guys drive financially or even the more sinister means by actually harming you or the people around you. Virginia's, you free, I got to know her. And she was, she was quite the war. I mean, she had a horrible.

her father started her father started when she was eight and then he pimped her out to a friend of his or no father's when she was six and pimped her out to a friend of his when she was eight and then she ended up in some weird facility that was very archaic and she would run away from it and she ultimately got she was on the streets and she got picked up by a pink pimp name Ron Eppinger. And Ron Eppinger put her in an apartment and then also come in during the day and during the night. And then after that, and then the FBI got on to Ron Eppinger,

and then Ebinger gave her to a friend of his, and the FBI kicked the door down in a pre-dawn raid, and Virginia was in bed with this guy. And then her father was kind enough to let her back into the house and then got her a job at Marilago where she met Maxwell. So, but with her, she was an amazing supernova man. And, you know, the way that she went up against these perps, Whatever happened to Eppinger?

Eppinger ended up in prison. That's good. Yeah. Silver lining. So, but Virginia was an amazing person. I'm pretty sure that she suffered from dissociative identity disorder. Almost certainly. I mean, this is the element that we were talking about. So you have the legal and sort of the, you know, implicit intimidation

that goes along with speaking out against powerful people. But then there's also the psychological component of enduring this type of sadistic Well, there's that. And then Virginia, she was terrified of Les Wexner because of his mafia connections. And she was terrified of Ahou-Berach because of his Mossade connections. Mm-hmm. She couldn't, I mean, terrified. So you superimposed that on what she saw and what she endured. And it's, I mean, ultimately what happened was her husband's celebrating on her. And she tried twice during the preceding year. And then her husband did a preemptive strike and got custody of the kids. And have you seen that picture of her where she's...

Yeah, bruised and bad. Okay, so that initially it was thought it was an accident. It was an accident. That was her husband that really beat her up. I mean, how many men failed Virginia Guffrey? I mean, from the day she was born. Not only men. I mean, the system.

Yeah. The system completely failed her. Yeah. And multiple times. And yes, men too, but definitely the system. Yeah. There's just, I can understand the psychology of a woman or a man who's been abused at a young age and why it would affect them. And one of the things we mentioned was that there's the psychological component of being abused.

and then that leaves you with a trauma, a scar that exists within you and within your nervous system. And many people, you know, with no fault of their own, will succumb to some type of addictive behavior or some type of coping mechanism in order to deal with that trauma, whether it's drugs, alcohol, sexual addiction, what have you. And then as a result, that can lead to recidivism and more further incarceration that then affects your story, it affects your testimony, it affects your character and your credibility when it comes time to testify against these powerful people. So you might have someone who's, you know, 35 years old that is a victim of Jeffrey Epstein that has had years of drug or substance abuse that's been in and out of prison. And now you expect them to go in front of Congress or go in front of some type of judge and explain what Epstein did them when they were 10 and have anyone believe them.

So now you're dealing with this assassination of their character. So with the Franklin scandal, the Franklin scandal was Republicans and little boys. boys, little boys. Epstein is primarily Democrats. Well, girls, that seems to be the partisan divine in our political system. But the vast majority of the boys that I talked to had been in prison. Right. And they had come from dysfunctional families.

They had been repeatedly, some as young as six. and then at a certain point they lose their useful marketability and they're just expunged. And what you end up with is someone who's very damaged, who is chances are a drug addict and or an alcoholic. And they're going to commit crimes. I remember I was looking for one, I had a list of 60 victims, as I said before, And there was one kid named Roo Fox. And I would kind of track him around the country with these databases that I use. And then he started showing up in Nebraska.

But I could never find him. I had a really hard time finding him. And finally, I hired a private detective and I said, can you find this guy? I mean, I can't find him. And she told me where he was living because she had actually. access to the DMV. And she said, be careful of this guy. He's very, very violent. And so I called him up. And I said, Roe, my name's Nick Bryan. I'm a journalist. I'm working on this. So he had been before Boys Town and he'd been during Boys Town.

and, and I said, I'm, I'm a, he said, are you a cop? And I said, no, no, I'm not, I'm not a cop. I'm a journalist. Are you a cop? And so he must have asked me that like six times. And I said, no, I'm, I'm not a cop. And then he said, well, meet me at this bar. And if you're a cop, I'm going to snap your neck.

And so I'm, I'm at this bar, which is one of those bars where people drink until they die. I mean, they might die next week or they might die next month or they might die next year, but their goal is to drink until they die. So I'm in this bar drinking a cranberry juice that doesn't really taste like a cranberry juice. I was a little worried about that, thinking that I should probably have had some antibiotics with me. But anyway, my own pick-a-dolls aside. So Rue comes in with two buddies of his. and he goes back and then there's a room, an empty room behind the bar.

And so I'm there with Rue and his three buddies. And then Rue grabs me and puts me up against the wall. And Rue is like a human pit bull. He did 10 years in prison. I mean, he lifted a lot of weights. And I was singing to myself, you know, if worse comes to worse, I saw the exit. I said, you know, and Rue was the biggest and meanest of the mall. So I said, you know, I'm going to have to, I'm going to hit Roo and hopefully something happens and then I'll be able to get out of that.

But he said, how did you know? And then I gave him this documentation that I had on him and where he'd lived previously with a foster care parent. And once he read the documentation, he realized that I was, that I was being honest. And so he got rid of his two buddies, and I took him out at the dinner. And his thing was vodka and shooting crystal meth. And I eventually dropped him off. And then we talked a few times. And then he kept on saying to me, you opened the wrong door.

You opened the wrong door. And because he had slammed that door shut. and I was talking to him about it, you know, this horrible nightmare of his. And he was dangerous, but I really wanted to get an interview with him. So we had talked on the phone. He'd been very hostile to me. So my second of the last day in Nebraska on that particular sojourn, I thought, I'm going to throw the dice.

I'm going to drive by his place. And so I, he's working on a car in the driveway. And I have no idea what's going to happen. I say, Roo, how you doing? And he had drank a lot of viking that day. So it goes, you know, I've been thinking about talking to you. And I said, really, that would be great. And so.

He needed parts and things like that. I was kind of his gopher for the rest of the day. And then early evening, I got an interview from him. And he just broke down crying. That armor that he wore was taken. He just took it off. And it was the damaged 12-year-old boy. The armor had enabled him to go, you know, hang out with criminals.

hang out with drug addicts, go to prison. But the roof box that I interviewed that night was a 12-year-old boy that was really, really hurt. It breaks my heart, truly. Like, I, ever since having a child on my own, my whole perspective on just people and, you know, even just how I interface with people is fundamentally changed.

that anytime I see a really tough, scary-looking guy that's got tattoos all over his face and he's just, like, emanating this testosterone and this entire signal to anyone around him, like, don't F with me or I'll fuck you up. Like, if you touch me, I'll ruin you. Like, that type of energy. That was room.

There's always just a little kid under that that didn't feel safe and that wasn't protected, and that was failed by the adults around him that were supposed to keep him safe. And it truly breaks my heart. Like, I get emotional. even thinking about because it's like seeing my son and just like how precious and pure he is, the idea that there's other kids like my kid that didn't have the support system that my son has that got exploited and abused and now lead this life of whether it's crime or coping

or whatever you want to call it to try to patch up this wound that never healed when they were a kid. It's tragic. But if you look at the numbers, according to the Sinistered Disease Control, 25 percent of underage girls have been and five percent of underage boys. Most people in the field will say it's slightly conservative for underage girls and extremely conservative for hundred age boys. But if you just go with the CDC numbers, there's over 50 million Americans at him as minors. So if we could take one thing out of our society, if we could take that out of our society, the prisons wouldn't be full, the psychiatric hospital,

wouldn't be full. There wouldn't be so many people on disability. I mean, if we could just take that one thing out of our society. Because the cyclicality of it as well, I mean, so many people that abused were themselves abused. I mean, people have speculated that Jeff Repsian himself was abused when he was a kid. I've seen that, you know, stated perhaps in his deposition where he kind of reacts uncomfortably to the question. And again, that does, by no means does it absolve him for running a sex trafficking organization where he was sadistically, you know, torturing young kids. But it does, I think, shed a little bit of light to how insidious and sort of cancerous this type of thing is in a society. Some of those guys were, I mean, when I'm talking about the perps that I wrote about in the Franklin scandal.

Some of them were probably, but a lot of them weren't. They were just bent. Yeah. There was just something about them that was fundamentally bent. Yeah. And perhaps a more robust social social. service capacity to deal with children that they're able to get help and counseling to help them not continue that cycle of abuse.

Look at the numbers, over 50 million. And that's a very, very conservative number. Yeah. So it's just tragic. There's a lot of people that are walking around that have been sexually abused and no one else knows. Yeah. And I had, I knew.

someone who was sexually abused and his mom said, don't tell anybody so nobody knows. Mm-hmm. So nobody knows. So his mom was relegating him to nobody. Mm-hmm. To ensure his silence. Right. And to me, now I know that happens all the time, but that kind of,

maternal malevolence is mind-boggling, but it's, you know, it's happening probably within two miles of where we're talking right now. Yeah, almost certainly. And I mean, there's probably people listening to this that have dealt with, you know, childhood sexual abuse. And if that is you, you're not broken, you know, you did nothing wrong. But if you're able to, trying to talk to someone and getting help for it is probably the most beneficial thing you can do, because letting that fester in your soul.

and letting nobody know, I just think is so traumatizing to your psyche. I was, my mother married a corporate lawyer, and it was very violent to me. And the first time I ran away, I was 12. And I didn't run away because I was a bad student. I was actually a very good student. I was a very good athlete. I ran away that night out of self-reservation. So I know what it's like to overcome something.

I was never sexually abused, but just the trauma that I had to deal with was very, very difficult. Very difficult. I saw some shrinks and most of whom weren't very helpful. But I had to work through that. And I can just imagine someone that had the trifect of emotional abuse, physical abuse, and sexual abuse. I just had emotional and physical. So, and who knows what would have happened to me if I'd been sexually abused, I probably wouldn't be here. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, again, I just look at these kinds of emails, like the one Christos would pat up with, you know, this guy saying, this real loves Jesus and God helped her out so much. And just the sort of pathological. Malevolence. This malevolence just say, whoops. It's like, it just reeks of just the highest orders of evil to me. Well, I mean, a lot of this stuff does. Yeah.

What we've been going through, I think, is very evil. Yeah. I mean, we want to be skeptical to a certain degree and not jump in and go downstream so quickly. But I think a lot of the emails that we're going through indicate an unbelievable degree of evil and malevolence. Yeah. I'm curious, who do you think...

Yeah, I don't know if you have an answer for this. So I'm curious, who do you think is the next Jeffrey Epstein? Okay, so I was told that there was a Jeffrey Epstein understudy. And I don't know, I don't know if that source was correct or not. But at any given time, there are various Jeffrey Epstein's trafficking children that are protected. I mean, I know that because I'm a lightning rod for that type of stuff. people contact me all the time. And Jeffrey Epstein and Franklin aren't the only networks that have come around in the last 30 years.

I mean, at any given time, there are various networks at work that are protected. Now, where can people look? What should people be weary of? How would someone identify this individual or this web of individuals? Well, with Epstein, he was identified in 1996. Mm-hmm. Maria Farmer went to the FBI in 1996, said that he was, had child pornography.

Mm-hmm. And so that was the first time that we know of where Epstein could have been stopped. Right. And it's still operated for 10 years. Pretty much with immunity. Well, actually, you know, operated until 2019. Fair. But with no legal recourse up until 2006.

Yeah. So, and I didn't know this until recently, there was a, the feds in the Southern District Florida drafted a 60-count indictment against Epstein. Because I just thought that they came in and the feds came in and quashed it. But actually, that's not the case. There was a 60-count indictment drafted. against Epstein. And there's actually an email where it talks about Ken Starr, who prosecuted Bill Clinton,

who's, if you look at this email, I mean, he's a snake. And that talks about the top brass, quote unquote, top brass, the FBI. They got to go visit Alexander Acosta and edify him. Now, a U.S. attorney, there's only two people in the country constitutionally that can tell the U.S. attorney to stand down. One is the attorney general and one is the president. Alexander Acosta, as a U.S. attorney, is not going to unilaterally cover up a network. That's not going to happen. Alberto Gonzalez, who is the attorney general, is not going to unilaterally cover up a network and go out on a limb. So that cover up in 2007, 2008, that emanated from, I believe, George Bush. Interesting. So it emanate from the apex of our political system. What's up, guys?

We're going to take a break really quick because I just got a cheat code that I want to tell you guys, all right? I am at an age of my life where, unfortunately, a normal night out has consequences. Not even crazy drinking, like just a couple of drinks. And the next day, I'm wrecked. Like, my sleep score is bad. my head feels bad. Like on my whoop, it tells me like, hey, you slept like crap. And that's why I use Cheers Restore.

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That's CAMP at cheershealth.com. Go to cheershealth.com. Use the code camp, get 20% off. you're going to go out, have just as much fun, and feel way better the next morning to get after it. And tell them the good folks over a camp gag non-send you. And let's get back to the show. This is the email here.

To and from is completely redacted, but it says the subject is Ken Starr, and this is on the 10th of December 2007. Hey guys, Ken Starr is coming to Miami on Friday to meet with Alex. This is Alexander Acosta. I have been invited. Perhaps it is time for the FBI.

I mean the top Rass to attend as well. The meeting is at 1 on Friday. I am not extending an invitation, but I'm keeping you informed, can you decide what you think is best? Hmm. So Alexander Acosta obviously had a lot of heat put on him because there was a 60 count a diamond drafted and count 51 was child trafficking, which in the federal system is 15 years to life.

Right. That's a heavy sentence. So that 60 count of diamond could have put Jeffrey Epstein away for good. And this email seems to corroborate with Acosta's claim that's a bit hearsay when he's getting inducted into Trump's cabinet saying, I was told that he was intelligence. Yeah. And perhaps this is when he was told that. I'm working on an article right now about Jeffrey Epstein and CIA connections. And they're very prolific.

The New York Times about a month ago came out with an 8,500 word article. and it concluded that Jeffrey Epstein was a grifter, which, you know, I mean, that's not too tough, but that he had no connections to intelligence. And I've said disingenuous a number of times already, but this was so disingenuous. Jeffrey Epstein had a business relationship with Adnan Kishoggi. And there's like five. different publications that I found that talk about Epstein's business with Koshoggi. There's a book that talks about Epstein's business with Koshoggi.

There is, on Wikipedia, talks about Epstein's business with Kishoggi. And Koshoggi was an infamous arms dealer who was part of Iran-Contra and the CIA. So the New York Times, I mean, really. And it did that with some other people, too. And why is the New York Times covering that up? I can guess. Because of something like that. Right.

Somebody's visited them. Right. Some has visited editor-in-chief. And I know someone who worked at the New York Times, and he felt that most of the journalists are on a reservation that they don't even know that they're on. And I had a buddy that was an editor at Harper's Magazine. And he said that his colleagues didn't even know that they were on a reservation. Wow. But I think, well, at least with the New York Times, that there's middle management people that are probably CIA. Right.

Or getting paid by the CIA. Somehow connected. So those eight journalists that worked on that huge article that found that Jeffrey Epstein had no ties to intelligence, maybe a number of them are just that stupid. I mean, maybe some of them did know. I mean, I don't know how you could miss on Adnan, Koshoggi and Epstein. Right. So obviously, there was willful malfeasance there. But where did that come from?

It must have come from an editor. Yeah, almost certainly. So. So as far as the next Epstein goes, do you think it's connected to this current web? Do you think that that person is potentially in these files? I don't know. I was told that there was an Epstein-Hunter study. Through a source, that source seemed to know some stuff, but then, like a lot of sources, she evaporated. So I have no idea. But what I can say is that I've talked to a lot of people who were trafficked in the United States via protected networks.

I believe that, as I said, there are various protected networks at any given time in the United States. Is there a way to draw an analog with the Franklin scandal? Was there anyone after Lawrence King that then was, you know, leading the charge? Was it passed on internally or was it just a completely new thing that springs up? Yeah, I think once King and Spence were. like Galeigh Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. Right.

And Spence killed himself and then King went to prison for 12 years. And then was there a new version of them that sprouts up from the same sort of mess? I don't know. I mean, Boys Town is kind of concerned. They were using Boys Town as kind of a smorgasbord for pedophiles. Right. And Boys Town is like was developing all around the country, which really concerned me. Like it was franchising him in. Well, it wasn't for it was just it's a Catholic institution and they were opening up various branches all around the country.

So that concerned me big time. And actually it still concerns me. Boys Town concerns me. Yeah, to this day. They don't let me on the campus very long. Hmm. I see. Although I'm making a docu series about the Franklin Scandal now.

and we had we were very loud with cameras and they let us hang out for about 10 minutes before they told us you know to leave i see because a boystown has its own police force really it's an incorporated city it has its own police force it has its own uh post office i mean it's it's it's yeah it's very insular bizarre yeah So if you were looking for the next steps, is it possible you would look around a place like that? Yeah, there was a famous bank robber named Willie Sutton in the 50s and 60s.

And Willie was asked, Willie, why do you rob banks? And Willie said, well, that's where the money is. And why do people run orphanages or get involved with, I mean, a lot of times And I'm not saying all the time. There's a lot of good people that are working with children, but then there's a lot of monsters also that are working on my children.

And that orphan edges would be a great place for a monster to work. Right. Now, when you say an Epstein understudy, do you think this is someone that learned his ways or someone that was also dealing in the same financial blackmail networks? I was just told that it was just exclusively. I mean, I didn't ask about, financial networks, but I did ask about sexual trafficking, child trafficking.

And she said to me that there was an understudy. I haven't been able to find an understudy, but, you know, it's, but a lot of these emails are, I mean, I suspected a lot of the stuff that was in these emails. Because as I said earlier, human traffickers are vicious psychopathic people who have no conscience. But I wasn't really able to, like, I knew that there were, because of the usurpists that I knew and some others, Virginia, that the kids were definitely under 14, or a lot of the kids were under 14. But some of this other, like, and I knew that there was sadism, too.

Mm-hmm. But some of this other stuff is pretty new to me. Now, something that I wanted to ask you, and I'm curious to maybe just go through a couple other emails before we depart today, but this is just something I can't really figure out. Epstein's whole arc has very specific moments, key moments that change the trajectory of his life. And we know, obviously, his relationship

with Galane Maxwell in the 90s, his relationship with Leslie Wexner, these things change his hiring at Bear Stearns. They put him onto a path. But it seems like things start to be strange in Epstein's life at the very beginning when he graduates high school, drops out of college, and then gets hired at the most prestigious private school in all of maybe America. at the Dalton school. So he was hired by Donald Barr. Right. The father of William Barr.

And William Barr covered up not only Epstein, but he covered up Franklin, too. Right. He was the Attorney General under Bush I, the smart George Bush. Right. But Donald Barr had been OSS. Right. Which is the precursor the CIA. And now, he ran this program out of Columbia University for gifted students.

they were looking for gifted students. And I have not been able to corroborate that that is how he met Jeffrey Epstein. But here was a guy that was militant and fascist. And he's the headmaster of Dalton and he's going to hire a guy that doesn't even have a college degree. I don't think that's going to happen unless there's a prior relationship. So this is my question, that Jeffrey Epstein at this point is 19. 19, 20, 21? Yeah, he's relatively young, yeah.

And he's already on the path? Like, that's what I can't exactly figure out. Did they know that he had this, you know, insidious predilection for young girls at this time? Was this something that he was forced or groomed into? Like, I can't understand. Donald Barr wrote a book about, you know, aliens that are... Intergalactic sex trafficking or work. a 15-year-old is graphically raped.

Right. So when he wasn't being like an upright fascist, he was writing those type of books. Space relations, I think the name is the book. So for him to hire Jeffrey Epstein is completely out of character for him. So I believe, and I can't prove it at this point, I believe that when he was running those classes or programs for gifted children, I think that's where he probably met Epstein. And how old do you think Epstein is at that time?

A teenager? Yeah. Yeah. So from the time that Epstein himself is a teenager, he's on this track to be tied in with intelligence and tied in with the government and tied in with the most powerful people in our country. Well, you know, I think there's gradations of that.

Mm-hmm. And you see that with Secrets of Science. I mean, how far is this person willing to go? Right. And so it's a continual tests, I guess. Yeah. But it's just the path is just so precarious that he's hired of the Dalton School, an elite institution for, you know, training the future of America

as a college dropout, which is strange by a guy who's extremely militant and upright in his academic discourse, which is very strange. And then from there goes to Bear Stearns, again, still underqualified and very very, very strange. and very strange, and is put into a very specific unit of Bear Stearns that allows him to meet all sorts of influential people, and then gets put on the board of the Rockefeller Institute with, again, just all of it is just like so perfectly placed to be this operator. Okay, so at Bear Stearns, Bear Stearns was doing a lot of business BCCI, which was a bank that was probably the dirtiest bank in history, if you can imagine a bank like. that. It laundered money for the CIA. It laundered money for drug cartels. I mean, every dirty deed that a bank could do, BCCI was doing. Now, Bear Stearns and BCCI had a relationship. There's been a lot of people that have surmised that that's where Epstein really tapped into his malfeasance was interacting between Bear Stearns and BCCC.C.I.

but I haven't found proof of that. Mm-hmm. Entirely possible, but I have not found proof of it. Yeah, I'm just, I guess for me, I'm trying to understand, when does it, quote, unquote, all go wrong, you know? Like, or is this like his path? And maybe one possible story is that he's an affable guy that's, you know, smart enough and he's able to get into these places with his connections.

And he knows enough people in order to get hired. But his connection, I mean, the dudes from a blue-collar family. And his dad was a gardener for, for, for, New York City. Right. So it... Maybe he's smart enough and he's at this, you know, gifted thing

and he's able to meet this guy and, you know, Donald Barr really likes him, so he gives him a shot to, you know, teach at Dalton. And then from there, he's affable and, you know, savvy enough to meet... He doesn't last that long. Right, but then he goes to Bear Stearns. Yeah.

I think from connections that he makes at Dalton, if I'm not mistaken. Yes. Ace Greenberg. And so he's friendly enough and he's smart enough to impress enough people in order to keep on elevating. And then I wonder if he strikes a deal with intelligence and they realize that his pedophilic sort of desires make him extremely easy to control. Well, if he was interacting between Bear Stearns and BCCI, I mean, BCI was doing the dirtiest money laundering that you can do.

So if that was. the case, but I can't prove it. If that was the case, then people would, and BCI was heavily plugged into the CIA, then they would realize that, you know, here's our man. With King and Spence in the Franklin scandal, they were both in Southeast Asia at the same time. Spence was an ABC camera or ABC reporter, and King had a top security clearance in Thailand. And I believe, now this is just my extrapolation, I believe that both of them got busted little boys in Southeast Asia. And then they were turned because when they come back to the United States, their careers are like just the trajectory is straight up. Right.

And they're both from working class families. So that's my theory about King and Spence is when that's when they got turned. I don't know with Epstein. There's too many things with Epstein that we just don't know. What was his relationship really like with Donald Barr? Mm-hmm. Who was he dealing with? Was he dealing with BCCI when he was at when he was at Birstean?

We don't know. Right. And I guess I'm curious what predates what? Does his first offense as a pedophile, does that happen? and then his intelligence connections, or vice versa? Uh, I don't know. I can't answer that. Yeah.

What came first, the chicken or the egg. Right. But the two things I do think are linked in the sense that he's able to blackmail with, you know, out having to consult his conscience at all because he's a sociopath, psychopath, psychopath. And so he becomes really valuable to people operating within the government because he's able to do all the dirty work that the government probably wants done. But, you know, after the church committee, they can't have it on the books. Actually, the, I really wish that the church committee had done something. I mean, they exposed a lot. Frank Church lost his Senate seat in his next bid. There was a lot of money that came in, kind of like what we're seeing with Thomas Massey. Right. So I don't think that the church hearings, when Carter came in, he fired a bunch of CIA people.

It's called the Halloween Massacre. But when Reagan came in, he hired them all back. So, you know, I don't really think that Church Commission had much of an effect. Really? Unfortunately. I just heard it as a theory that after the Church Committee or the Church Commission, that it basically exposed so much of the government's doings for the past 30 years. M.K. Ultra had many other sort of secret...

M.K. Ultra, chaos, Quintel Pro. Right. So many sort of secret and nefarious things that the government was doing that now were exposed through these, you know, acts of, you know, freedom of information, basically. And in order to not let that happen again, they start using these third party private citizens to carry out their dirty work. So, hey, we need some weapons moved. We need some blackmail done. We need some stuff to be fixed. We have this guy that exists as just a regular citizen that we can utilize for all of our intelligence needs.

I've concluded that, and there are CI people that are good people. There really are. Not everybody in the CIA CIA is malignant, but there is a dark malignant corner of our intelligence. Sure. That employs people like Jeffrey Epstein and Lawrence King and Craig Spence. Sure. Definitely, without a doubt. And it has a tremendous amount of power.

But I just wonder if someone like Epstein comes online because they all of a sudden see this guy that has a high risk tolerance. He's financially savvy. He's working within the CD bank and willing to do really high risk things that could put him in jail for a long time, but he's crazy enough to do it. And he has this predilection for young girls. And they say, oh, this is a perfect operative. We're going to scoop him up to do all of our dirty work. He was busted for insider trading at Bear Stearns. That's what ultimately. Yeah, he leaves on violation. But, you know, he just skipped to the next gig. I mean, nothing. Right. There was nothing. There was no ramifications for him. Was he dealing with BCCI? Did he get involved then?

was he bent when Donald Barr hired him? Those are things that we just don't know yet. Right. And hopefully we will find out. Now, as of today, Pam Bondi is sort of testifying and under oath explaining why the administration is doing what they're doing and why the files are being released in that specific way. Creases, do you have the text messages by chance that have been sent regarding that?

I think it would be interesting just to react to a few of those. Um, Hesu sent a couple about a Thomas Massey versus Pam Bondi discussing Epstein. There's another clip that suggests that perhaps Pam Bondi lied under oath. I don't know. No, shit. Whoa. That one gets me by surprise. Yeah, but she's called out for it.

Apparently, Ted Liu catches her in a lie and then says that directly to her. So are you able to pull these up, Chris? She said that Jeffrey Epstein was on. And this material, abusing girls. And then she, I mean, then she did 180 degrees on it. I think that our attorney general has decimated her own credibility. I mean, that's why Todd Blanche is essentially acting as the attorney general at this point. And he's decimating his credibility.

Right. It seems like anyone that is willing to deny what we've always. read even in just the these heavily redacted probably select emails yes is going to just destroy any any credibility so they released three million emails and it has this kind of content can you imagine what the the three million emails are like that that haven't been released yeah so this is a clip from today I think it happened while we were recording and yeah this is I think it's pronounced Lou Leo Ted Liu um that basically catches her in a lie.

Let's watch. There is no evidence that Donald Trump is committed to crime. Everyone knows that. This has been the most transparent presidency. He's the one that asked that those files. I mean, claim Mikeai. I got your answer. You said that's no evidence.

Trump asked the judge to sign the legislation. This is, this is. Time, this is. I belong to the gentleman from California. Okay. I'm going to put up another document from a witness who calls. called the FBI's National Threat Operations Center because I believe you just lied under oath. There is ample evidence in the Epstein.

Don't you ever accuse me of a crime? I believe you just lied under oath. And this is on videotape. You said there's no evidence of crime. I'm showing you here is a witness statement who called into the FBI's threat operation center. He drove Donald Trump around in a limo. He overheard what Donald Trump said to Jeffrey at his cell phone. He was so angry.

He was going to stop a limo. hurt Donald Trump. And he met a girl who said she was raped by Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. She later had her head blown off and officers at the scene said that could not have been suicide. No one, no one at the Department of Justice interviewed this witness. You need to interview this witness immediately. Epstein should rot in hell so sure the men who patronizes this operation. and as we say here today, there are over 1,000 sex trafficking victims, and you have not held a single man accountable. Shame on you.

If you had any decency, you would resign right after this hearing of complete. I'll second that. And would you mind pulling up the other clip as well? I think it's pertinent to our conversation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Behind me, I have three documents from the DOJ production that are emulous. Would you mind just skipping four minutes in? To my right is an email that was sent.

Chairman, please, with story. I know. We'll let the attorney general respond and then the gentleman to move. Care me questions. Within 40 minutes, you ask me a question. You can give me. Within 40 minutes, Wexner's name was added. Then 40 minutes of me catching you red-handed.

Red-hand. There was one redaction. Where he's listed as a co-conspirator. And we invited. you in. This guy has trunked arrangement syndrome. He needs to, you're a failed politician. He needs to. Why you? Please restore his time and remind the way to himself. There is no credible information. If there were to would bring a case yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals. Is that your position as well? My position is any victim who comes forward, of course, we would love to

hear from them. 1-800 call FBI. Did you ask Merrick Garland that the last four years? Did you talk about Epstein? I'm reclaiming my time. I'm glad you're asking about Merrick Garland. You don't give a reclaim plan. This is bigger than Watergate. This goes over four administrations. You don't have to go back to Biden. Let's go back to Obama. Let's go back to George Bush. This cover-up spans decades and you are responsible for this portion of it. And that's fair. I want to know at what point, at what point did the FBI and the DOJ decide that Lex Wester was not a co-conspirator? Because our Epstein Files Transparency Act requires you, please put it back on the screen, to release the internal decision about whether to prosecute him or not, and it's not in the files, and it's not in the files for any of these other men. The gentleman has a fire. May she answer?

And he's a hypocrite because he voted against the ban that we were talking about on deep fake AI porn. Only two people voted against it, and you were one of a hypocrite. The gentleman is fired. Mr. Chairman, could she answer the question? Chairman, I was wondering, the gentlelady's allowed the Bernie Donald is a lot to respond. I have your name as a concern request. I mean... And so it goes.

Goodness. I mean, shout out to Thomas Massey for holding feet to the fire. I mean, that's brilliant. And Thomas Massey and Rokane have been amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm curious to know what happens from the rest of this. I truly hope that you are able to continue your work and they were able to stay safe in the process.

I mean, you know, I've been at this a while. I mean, am I supposed to become a certified accountant now or something like that? What are my options? I've been a writer for 35 years, and I've been doing this for quite some time. I mean, if I gave up now, I mean, I guess I could be a parking lot attendant or something like that. I don't think so. I don't think so. I think you're better off right.

So, there's no U-turn for me here. Right. I mean, this is what I've kind of dedicated myself to. Well, I'm glad you're on it. And I just want to say one thing. When I was investigating Franklin and I realized it was true, all of it, I just said, man, I'm not going to let these fuckers get away with this. And I made a vow to myself. And, you know, and this is an extension of that vow.

Well, I'm glad you're on it. Epsteinjustice.com. That's it. Those are people can find you if they want to read more about it. Nick Bryant, NYC.com. And we have monthly webinars. at Epsteinjustice.com, visit us, sign our petition. We could use donations. Someone asked me why Epstein Justice needs donations. And I said to them, when I gave my accountant,

the accountant for Epstein Justice a check last week, I didn't say, well, why do you need this? People. Right. Yeah. It takes money to run an organization. Of course. That makes a lot of sense. And people ask me, at least I see it in the comments. They say, what can I do? I've done a few episodes on Epstein in these emails. They said, what do I do? And I've advised people if you feel completely overwhelmed by this and you don't know what to do, invest in your local community,

love your family, take care of your children, take care of the children of your, you know, relatives and neighbors and try to preserve what's around you. But if there's people with more of a fight and more tenacity, then perhaps getting involved. Epsteinjustice.com is the next stop. Exactly. I think that would be the level of that there's a level of that there. able to get involved in actual criminal justice organization to help bring justice to the survivors and bring retribution to the people that have done this malfeasance.

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Nick. Okay, man. I really appreciate you. Let's do this again soon.