Camp Gagnon - Every 9/11 Theory and Story Explained

Episode Date: September 6, 2024

One of the most tragic days in American history. A devastating terror attack that resulted in countless loss of life both domestically and abroad. And today, we’re discussing the most remarkable stories of heroism, all the bizarre coincidences, and why there is so much controversy and conspiracy surrounding this event. I’ve invited by my friend Jon, a researcher and expert in the field who has given 9/11 tours in New York city for a decade and we’re going into every story and theory from this...

One of the most tragic days in American history, a devastating terror attack that resulted in countless loss of life, both domestically and abroad. Needless to say, the world will never be the same. And today, we're discussing the most remarkable stories of heroism, all the bizarre coincidences, and why there is so much controversy in conspiracy surrounding the events of September 11th. I've invited my good friend John, a researcher, and an expert in the field who has given 9-11 tours in New York City for over a decade. And today we're going through every story and every theory from this fateful moment in U.S. history. So sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. What's up, people, and welcome back to another episode of Camp. Tent Talks, the show where I explain the most fascinating and interesting topics from around the world to my dumbest friends.

But today, I actually don't have one of my dumbest friends. I have one of my smartest and most well-researched friends in this specific subject matter. my dear friend John Nodo. How are you, sir? I'm doing good, man. Happy to be here. Absolutely, dude. I was thinking about this topic. And obviously, as the date of September 11th is coming closer, I was just like, you know, just researching. And as a kid, I would just get in these, like, wormholes where I would just, like, research and just, like, read about, you know, 9-11 stuff and different conspiracies

and theories and stories and all sorts of different things about it. So I've always just been fascinated. Obviously, it's like a monumental day in American history and, you know, a tragic event that has changed the course of like world politics forever. And as it was approaching, I was just like, I would love to speak to someone that is like a true expert in this. You know what I mean? As I was trying to digest all the information and like research everything, I was like, who can I talk to that's actually, you know, a genius in this? And here we are. Well, I appreciate you saying that, man. I don't call myself a genius on this. You know, an expert on 9-11, that's certainly interesting title. What I would I?

I can tell you is that I've been a tour guide in New York City for 10 years, and when I realized 9-11 was one of the topics I could cover, I just grew this, look, it's not a politically correct podcast, this autistic interest in 9-11 because there's so much information available and there's no limit to the amount of research that you can really do. There's just story after story after story after story. It's not just these supposed conspiracies, those, that are grounded in once ridiculous, those that are grounded a little bit more in reality, but then you had one fact and it starts to make sense and the things that are worth questioning, but also just the genuine stories of the people that day, what they went through and how they survived or didn't survive. There is just some incredible stories that need to be shared.

Yeah, yeah. And you yourself, you're basically in New York. I grew up in Jersey, but, you know, spent the majority of your life, you know, basically right here in New York City. Yeah, pretty much all of my, adult life. I think I'm getting to the point where I've been like commuting to New York on a daily basis longer than I haven't been. I first came out to New York when I was six years old. And even back then, I just wanted to see the Twin Towers. Yeah. And I knew we would pass and we'd

see two buildings that like looked like they were twins. I'd be like, is that the Twin Towers? And I knew that they weren't, but I was just so excited to see them. I would just like point to any buildings that were twins. And I still have this memory of every time we're going over that bridge and you can see lower Manhattan in the distance and just these two incredible structures. A single one of them would just be a very boring building, but something about the fact that there were two of them, these monolithic, incredible steel structures, so stunning, so beautiful, I was so drawn to them. They were like drawing me. in and I felt that they were special long before, you know, the event occurred.

And I hate saying it, but I never actually got to go to the top of them. And, you know, out of any bad thing that could have come up that day, that's really not anywhere near the top of the list of problems, you know. You know, it's really about you and not being able to go visit the top. Yeah, yeah, that's what this is all about. The biggest tragedy of the day. It's all about me, yes. Also, for the record, we might make some slight jokes here and there.

This is still a comedy podcast at the end of the day. And that is not to undermine or belittle, obviously, the tragic events that happen. And furthermore, by discussing, you know, alternate theories or things surrounding the event that are potentially apocryphal or, you know, partially true. This is, again, purely educational analysis and by no means an attempt to, you know, diminish the actual sacrifice of the heroes of that day or, you know, the tragic loss of life that has happened both domestically and abroad. So I just kind of want to put that disclaimer out. But I'm curious. So you have actually put in Freedom of Information Acts to get information regarding the event, right? No, I have not put in freedom of information acts, but I've kept in touch with people who do. And it has gotten us a lot of information. One thing that's going to be released in the Freedom of Information Act by 2026 through the FBI on CDs, because that's how the FBI still does it, is the full audio of the,

Flight 93 black box. If people were not clear on this, the black box of Flight 93 has been recovered. What is public information currently is a PDF of the entire transcript. You can read everything that's on there. The final 15 seconds is publicly available. You can find that. It's not the easiest thing to find on YouTube, but you can find that. You can hear one of the terrorist saying in Arabic, uh, send it down, send it down. Uh, you can hear one man screaming, no. And you can hear the terrorist chanting al-ahu Akbar. Um, and then of course, it cuts out. Uh, and it appears that these men did break into the cockpit and were about to stop these guys, uh, before they destroyed it. I do not expect anything explosive or shocking to come from this

Freedom of Information Act request because every family member of those aboard flight, of those who died on Flight 93 has been able to listen to the audio already, yes. So don't expect anything shocking to come from this, but that is due to be released in the Freedom of Information Act by 2026.

I'm going to add one more thing about FOIA, as it's called. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I have exciting news. We have a newsletter. Yes, hold your applause. It's okay. It's called Smoor Camp. I'm telling you, I do research for this show. ton of hours a week. I love doing it. But sometimes we have facts that can't make the show. Sometimes

they're too crazy for the regular episodes. So we've included them in our newsletter a couple times a week. You're going to be getting this day in history fact. It's absolutely mind-blowing. It'll make you the most interesting person in the room that you walk into. You can get it from this QR code on the screen right here or the link in the description. Check it out. Smore Camp. Now let's get back to the show. The biggest argument that the FBI gives for not releasing certain pieces of information is that this is being used in an ongoing trial against Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. And let's call him KSM for the rest

of this because like I guys I'm terrible with the Arab names. I'm never going to be good at them. Kaliad Sheikh Mohammed is essentially the mastermind behind 9-11. From bin Laden's perspective, as we understand it, bin Laden felt that like crashing airplanes would be good enough. Kali at Sheikh Mohammed

is the guy's like, no, fly them into buildings. And he had another terrorist attack that was thwarted, Operation Bojinka, which would have been far worse than 9-11. But Kalisheq Mohammed was captured 2002 or 2004, maybe put that in a caption, the exact date. And he's been detained for quite some time. He was waterboarded upwards. I think the number was 174 times. 174 times. And he even had some technique to like close his throat or something so that it couldn't like cause him to suffer or like he was like trained to do this stuff. And his trial

is still going on. A lot of people suggest that the CIA doesn't want it to go to trial because if it goes to trial, he's going to talk about their interrogation methods, which the CIA, from one perspective, thinks that'll make us look bad. From another perspective, it's like, don't give away our methods. We don't want terrorists to train and how to deal with this because that's going to become public information. The other thing is that his lawyers can also argue that he's not fit to stand trial.

He's been tortured beyond belief. he's, you know, Looney Tunes right now, and he could get a mistrial and go free, which would be the greatest embarrassment. Very recently, it was said that a plea deal was reached in which he would get life in prison, and it's not clear what that plea deal was going to be, likely that he was going to get some sort of comfortable prison for a lifetime rather than one of those, like, you know, solitary cell or rats and rogues and the whole deal. that was recently

it was said that this was going to happen and then a judge came forward and rejected the plea deal because of the requests of family members of those who died on 9-11 I have this to say is that like I would love to see this all come to an end me particularly my stance on the death penalty

and life in prison I could really go both ways with this guy at this point has been quite some time and this trial coming to an end will allow people to make more FOIA requests to get this information. However, if there are family members saying,

no, we want him to get the death penalty, you know what? I don't have the heart to fight them on that. It's like, you know what? Very well then. And he's in Guantanamo? He's in Guantanamo Bay. Yeah, one of the things that I had even mentioned to you, and I actually just want to give like a super quick shout out, there's a video that I watched recently

that basically broke down the entire, what they called the 9-11 iceberg. And this is one that we had spoken about a little bit, It was, it's like an extremely thorough and interesting video by this dude, Ramtrow Studios, and he broke down this whole thing. Basically, an image of like an iceberg, basically breaking down all the tears and the depth of, you know, stories and theories that are from this event that he found on Reddit. And it's, it's really interesting. I think, like a helpful framework to kind of build off of. But I guess to start, I'm curious, can you just kind of take me through?

Obviously, everyone's familiar with, you know, the main components of what happened that day. But could you take me through some of the interesting details about, Maybe some of the hijackers, how they planned it, where they went, and, you know, kind of the events as they unfolded, generally speaking. Well, the hijackers, basically, they were mostly young men, mostly in their 20s, and they were confused young men. That much is pretty clear. In the case of Muhammad Atta, yeah, he's the scary one. He's the one that we see on all the news. Yeah, like, in the case of Muhammad Atta, he... people would often say like there's just no photo of this dude smiling. And then I think when his will was made public,

because he made, I think he's one of the men who made a video will. He's actually smiling in that one. And Muhammad Atta may have been like an in-cell. And there's some suggestion he may have been a closeted homosexual, which is just going to be, you know, not an easy life for an Arab Muslim. Muslim, much less than anybody else, but certainly not for him.

And there's also a suggestion that he hated women. When he was boarding Flight 11, a female pilot walked past him, and he apparently accosted her. And by some reports appears he may have grabbed her by the arm in whatever fashion to get her attention. And he excitedly asked, are you the one flying this airplane? To which she said, no, I'm flying a different one. and she claims he had like a look of extreme disappointment.

Now, we're going to speculate on what that. Now, that's an eyewitness report. To speculate on what that means, I think he was really looking forward to hitting a woman. Whoa. That's crazy. Yeah. And what are the reports that he was gay?

The day before 9-11, he made the choice to drive all the way up to Maine. And he got a single hotel room. I have to double check if there was another terrorist with him, but he got a single motel room up in Maine. Maine. And the whole idea is that, well, he wants to get on a, he wants to get on an airplane in Maine, go through security there where the security is like going to be really relaxed, take that over to Boston, then leave from Boston and he's already gone through security. But I think another one of

the terrorists was with him. And I think they got like one room together. And like I would have spent my money since I'm going to die. Right. Yeah. But I also, I think they also went to Pizza Hut the night before. So, you know, I guess they preferred the casual stuff. Interesting. And, and Atta was in America for some time prior to the attacks? Sometime prior to the attacks, yes. Got you. And then he was somewhere on the East Coast and the other guys were somewhere on the West

Coast, San Diego, Arizona. I know some of them did train over in Germany to learn how to fly. Others trained in Florida. I spoke to a guy just recently episode came out a couple days ago, but he was one of the guys that trained Hanjor in Arizona.

And he came in and didn't speak much English, paid in cash. Yeah. And he was like, it was kind of weird. Alerted the FAA. They like sent someone out. They were like, nothing really peculiar about this.

And then six months later, September 11th. Yeah. Just a crazy turn of events and like such an unfortunate position to be in, you know, given the circumstances of the day. Yeah.

It's, there's all this evidence out there that like, that there's no debate that at a minimum all of our, you know, alphabet agencies were careless. or not doing their job or working hard enough.

I think that the real question that exists is, are there higher ranking officially? Because I want to be clear, I am not anti-FBI, I am not anti-CIA, to anyone out there who says like, oh, defund the FBI, you know, like anything you remove, it's just going to be replaced by something worse.

If you don't have a replacement for it, don't get rid of it, because, I don't know, then we might outsource our intelligence to, like, Mossad or something and then that's not going to be helpful to us. I'm not anti those agencies. There are, in fact, very good people in those agencies trying very hard to do very good things. But higher ranking officials, you know, kind of operating these lower ranking well-intentioned people, putting them in the wrong spot, derailing them, is the question. And, you know, perhaps

we'll get through that today. Interesting. Yeah. Is it true that some of the terrorists, lived with an FBI informant? Two of them did in fact live with an FBI informant. And FBI informant is the term that I'm using. It was not an FBI agent. You know, an informant is something different.

You know, I think any drug dealer who agrees to rat out their supplier would be an FBI informant. And this guy, basically he was a retired English professor and he was basically operating

a home where people could stay. It was kind of like a precursor to Airbnb or something, just renting out rooms. And he was a Muslim gentleman, and two of the terrorists stayed with him, and he gave them some advice. He taught them, like, you know, when you're praying, you know, you face that direction, how to face Mecca, and whatnot. And he didn't find anything very suspicious about these two gentlemen, about these two terrorists. He's the gentleman, the terrorists, and the terrorist or terrorists. Forgive me. He didn't find anything suspicious about these guys.

After the 9-11 attacks, he recognized it. And, like, you know, went directly to the FBI agency was in touch with and just said, like, hey, look, you know, these two guys stayed with me. And, you know, as far as what came of that, that's not entirely clear. There's a lot of redacted information that the FBI gives us. But again, it's just another example of, you know, some people either not doing their job, either intentionally or I guess somebody else didn't have enough information to look into these guys.

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Now, as far as the events that unfolded, obviously you have, you know, a commercial aircraft that hits the North Tower and then one that hits the South Tower. Yes. And then an aircraft hits the Pentagon. Yes. And then another aircraft crashes.

This is Flight 93 that you had mentioned before. Shanksville, Pennsylvania. And it crashed in Pennsylvania. Yeah. No known photographs of that. There's photographs of like the shrapnel, the photographs of the plume of smoke. Yes. Where do you speculate, if you have any thoughts, as far as to where that was heading to?

Well, I would say it was headed to the Capitol building. And that is because of correspondence between Muhammad Atah and Osama bin Laden that was recovered, in which Osama bin Laden is suggesting, well, it should be the White House. That just, you know, it's the White House. That's the better target. Muhammad Atah is like, well, no, it's too small. You're not going to be able to see it when you're up in the sky. We should go for the Capitol building because you can actually see it when you're up in the sky.

And Osama bin Laden is essentially saying something to the effect of, you know, I trust your judgment. So from that, I would conclude it is the capital building. And based on stories told, these people aboard Flight 93 saved the lives of, you know, current president Joe Biden, former vice president, Mike Pence. and Joe Biden was arriving in by train and saying to his daughter on the phone, I'm going to, you know, I see the Pentagon on fire. I'm going to the Capitol building. That's the safest in the world. And he's going to get there within 20 minutes. Mike Pence is just leaving the Capitol building and assuming, you know, this airplane will hit the ground and go into it absolutely could have killed either of these two guys. Wow. What a, I mean, what a course change of history. I mean, that's crazy. Exactly. And, you know, those of you listening at home, I know, you like at least one of those. guys. Yeah, you're split.

Either way you split it. You're like, oh yeah, that would have been fucking crazy. Yeah. That's wild. And you always hear about the heroic let's roll moment. Yeah. That's one of those that sticks out. I'm curious, can you expound on that story?

Well, the PDF says roll it, not let's roll. I would need to really hear the audio if that's, if the roll it or let's roll. But this gentleman was saying it as he was hanging up. the phone. And out of all the movies based on 9-11, I think Paul Greengrass directed United 93, and that is the only one that I think is like a great movie. All others, like, they're okay at telling the story. They're not particularly great. This one is like such a great movie that you'll watch it once and decide you never need to watch it ever again. Wow. That's the effect it has on you. And them using the trolley cart to break open the door, uh, that's the effect.

seems most plausible. You know, once those phones get hung up, once they go into action, all we know is that they said they were going to do this and that somebody was in the cockpit screaming, no, before it hit the ground. That's really what we know as far as what happened in between.

It's entirely speculation, but it seems like going for that cart to ram the door is what made the most sense. They also could have bashed against it using their own bodies, but it's unclear. these men, you know, save the lives of all of our members of Congress, potentially,

and anybody that works for, you know, people of coming, for those of you, like Congress, you know, they don't care about them. But like the people that work for Congress, all these people in Washington, D.C., and miraculously, thank God, nobody on the ground was killed. But everybody aboard Flight 93 loses their lives. we go into the morbid stuff on this podcast one of the witnesses describes

seeing a human face hanging from a tree branch as he arrived on the scene another man described seeing a piece of flesh with a Superman tattoo on it which one of the gentlemen who ran to the front did have a Superman tattoo

the S symbol on his arm and these are a little, you know, a piece of jaw and these are the pieces that are found. I understand why people question Flight 93 because other airplanes that crash on the ground that they're far more intact. But this is because when airplanes crash on the ground, there's usually a pilot at the front

trying to land as safely as possible. It's going to land more like this. This is a terrorist trying to destroy the airplane. When on Earth, I would say, try to compare it to if there's any evidence, any instances of like an airplane going straight down. It went into a sinkhole, but although there's not too many pieces on the ground, roughly 90% of the airplane was recovered from this scene. And just about remains of just about every single person from Flight 93 was recovered.

As I understand it, all of the missing DNA is from the trade center and the two airplanes that hit. in the trade center. At the Pentagon, I think there's only one person in which no piece of them was ever found. And at Flight 93, I believe DNA of everyone aboard was found. A big question with that is the DNA of the terrorists. You see, just about everyone who died that day

has a family member who came forward to give DNA so that it can be cross-reference to them. And we can determine if this is your relative. People who did not come forward are the family members of the terrorists. So when you find a piece of DNA that does not line up with the DNA given by family members, you conclude this must be one of the terrorists. And they are held in vials at undisclosed locations of the DNA of the terrorists,

undisclosed locations located in New York and Virginia, I would assume the FBI headquarters, perhaps the national, Institute of Standards and Technologies headquarters or one of the alphabet agencies. That's my guess, but it's undisclosed. It amounts to the remains of the terrorists, of which I believe 10 of them have been found. The terrorists at the Pentagon and Flight 93 have been found. Only about four terrorist DNAs have been found from the World Trade Center site. And again, it's speculation because they can't match it with anybody else. It amounts to 27 pounds of flesh, which is being contained across all of these terrorists.

I don't know if anybody's on like a different system. Like I am 5'10, I weigh 160 pounds. That's what one person, an average person, weighs. So just for anyone just using a different system. 27 pounds of flesh across these 10 people. And you don't know which one's which. So they're literally labeled terrorist A, B, C, D, and E. Wow.

From the Pentagon, terrorist ABCD from Flight 93, et cetera. I believe it is Muhammad Atah in which his torso was found. And I, you know, I want to be careful about giving information, which is not entirely fresh in my head, but I believe it's because of a birth mark that he had that it was identified. This torso must belong to Muhammad Atta. Wow. Yeah. That is fascinating. Yeah.

I'm curious what the reason for keeping all of it is, like, in that way. Well, it's evidence. It is evidence in the trial used against KSM. Now, when this trial concludes, family members of the terrorists will have the legal right to request the remains of their family members to be brought home. Wow. They will have the legal right to do so, so long as it is evidence in a trial, which it is. And people have to realize that it is evidence in a trial. It's as much as we can say, well, well, who needs the evidence?

We know it was them and everything. It's just not how the justice system works, thankfully. So that's the reason for keeping it. Wow. Yeah. I mean, remarkably heroic from the people on Flight 93. I mean, it's unthinkable. You know, they sacrificed themselves.

And I wonder if they knew it. I wonder if they knew, like, yeah, we're going to take it down. They were aware of the attacks that had already occurred by that time. They were able to make phone calls from the airplane. Just to clarify to, especially the younger people out there, you could make phone calls from airplanes. You had to use your credit card and you would swipe it. and the phone on board would be connected to the main communications of the airplane.

You know, the pilot can talk to ground control, and it would essentially use that same technology, and it would cost like an arm and a leg to do it. But they made phone calls. They had heard what was happening in Washington and New York, and they realized they were going to be next. Wow. I mean, just harrowing.

I mean, that's awful. Yeah. Now, I'm curious what other moments of heroism throughout the entire event, specifically relating to World Trade Center, stick out to you and in the time that you give your tours, which stories, like, you know, or do you find the most moving? There were 10 children at the World Trade Center on September 11th, and all 10 of them were in the daycare center of Tower 5.

Now, there's seven buildings at the original Trade Center site. Towers 1 and 2, the Twin Towers 110 stories tall. Tower 3 is the Marriott Hotel, formerly the Vista Hotel, 22 stories tall. Towers 4, 5, and 6 were the smallest ones between 7 and 9 stories tall. Tower 4 is where they filmed trading spaces with Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd. Tower 5 was the shopping center like, hey, Savaro's Starbucks. You know, we got Bugs Bunny statue, the Warner Rother store. Tower 6 was the keep moving nothing to see here building. That was the U.S. Customs House. That was the shortest one, seven stories tall. And then, of course, there's Tower 7,

which was completed in 1989, which was something around 45 stories tall, the third tallest of all of them. But we're in Tower 5. It's a nine-story building. We're on the second floor, and Tower 5 is, of course, not hit by an airplane. The daycare center is on the second floor.

There's four daycare workers and 10 infants, all of them under the age of four, and these daycare workers, they feel impact on the roof of pieces from the airplane, pieces from the buildings, and human remains hitting their roof, and they realize they have to get out of there.

So the four of them each carry, two infants in their arms and the two tallest infants walk alongside them and they run across the street and they steal some shop. They take some shopping carts from a nearby grocery store, put the children inside and run them uptown to a high school on the Lower East Side. It was either a high school on the Lower East Side or an early childhood association on the Lower East Side and no child was injured, no parent was injured, no child was orphaned, no daycare worker was injured. Wow. Very recently, all 10 of those infants now in their 20s, reunited with those daycare workers who saved their lives.

And, you know, remember those 10 infants because there's going to be a day years from now in which they are the only people left who can tell the events of that day from a first-person perspective as little as they may remember. They will one day be the only people left. Wow. Yeah. That's remarkable. I mean, how terrifying for those parents to think of my children are in the World Trade Center.

What I love to. That feeling of relief when you see them. Oh, my God. And it probably took them an entire day. My one thing I'd love to get a better understanding on is like these parents getting out of the building, what are they thinking about? Like are they thinking should I get into building five? Can I get into building five? Oh God, I hope they got out of building five. I'd love to gain more perspective on that. That's something to research. Wow. Yeah. What about the red bandana man? Well, Scrother. Wow. Now that's, he went up to floor 78. Some historians call floor 78 the killing floor. Other historical. Other historians, he went up to floor 78, the killing floor. Other historians. One guy, a gentleman named Superpaw calls it the gore floor. And some people are offended by that term, but it's a good description. You see, when the north tower is hit, people start to evacuate the south tower. And some people, as they're evacuating, they're told to come back up.

You know, don't worry about it. And there's a lot of people on the 78th floor. That's the sky lobby. It's just around where those bands are. You know the Twin Towers, how they had those bands, where it just got a little bit darker, that's where the maintenance floors are. And the windows become narrower. They go from 18 and a half inches wide to about 10.5 inches wide. And this is either just above or just below that,

but it's one of the sky lobbies and where the maintenance floors are. And that had an express elevator that can go from 78 all the way down to the lobby. Otherwise, if you didn't have an express elevator, you would have to, you know, floor 1 to floor 41, to get into another elevator, up to floor 78, get into another elevator.

You know how it works. But these express elevators could go all the way down. And some people are heading back up. Some people are heading down because they just want to get out of here. There's about two to three hundred people waiting on the 78th floor sky lobby. And they're having all sorts of conversations like, you know, remember when the power went out two years ago? They docked our pay. They didn't give us our money. And, you know, if I leave the building, they're going to dock my pay. You know, I'm going to stay right here. And I'm going to tell them, you have to pay me because I didn't leave. So, you know, other people are like,

you know what? I left my wallet upstairs. I don't have enough money for bus fare. You guys go on ahead. I'll catch up with you. These are the conversations that are happening of people in the South Tower after the North Tower has been hit. 9.02 and 59 seconds a.m. The nose of Flight 175 strikes the south side of the South Tower. Now this airplane is spinning on its side just before impact because the terrorist, he almost misses the building and he hits it on its side. Now this does two things. One, a lot of the explosion is outside of the building.

That's why the fireball is so massive from Flight 175. A lot of the explosion occurs outside of the building. The other thing is that the core of the North Tower went east-west. The core of the South Tower went north-south. They were opposite cores. And so by striking up with the skinny side of the core, it caused a little bit more damage in the South Tower and we'll go into that in a little bit

but I want to get back to this there's 200 people waiting on that sky lobby floor and immediately over a hundred of them perhaps over 200 of them are ripped in half by the wing of Flight 175 with dozens more dying instantaneously because they are inhaling

rather than exhaling at the time of the explosion and so as this dust settles as the smoke clears as the fireball rises it's going to be about 12 people who get to their feet and are able to escape individually from this gore floor. Escaping separately of one another. And Wells Crowther is a man who was below the impact zone, but he goes up to help several people get down.

And he has his red bandana that he uses to cover his face to help breathe in the smoke. And as he's helping people down, they just know him as the man in the red bandana. and as he gets several people from this gorgal, several of the 12 down to the lobby, he waits in the lobby to help other people evacuate, and he is still there when the South Tower collapses at 9.59 a.m. And so Wells Crowther is killed in the collapse,

and the red bandana is recovered to which people say, well, this is why I know that it's bullshit, because how did they find that red band, remember, he was in the lobby. and it is very likely that also being in the lobby of the South Tower as it came down, he's one of the people who attempted to run into the shopping center underground or run out of the building and then getting outside of the building, it's just far more likely for him or a piece of him, his clothing, to be uncovered given that position.

So it's not nearly as far-fetched as it sounds. Wow. So he perished in the lobby. He perished in the lobby or just outside of the building or in the shopping, the Westfield Shopping Center underground. And, you know, because it's assumed that, you know, as the tower starts to collapse, he would probably make some attempt to run. As several firemen do, Peter Gansy Jr., the head of the FDNY, does this and he survives the collapse of the South Tower and is able to get underground and break out through. Most reports say World Financial Center too, but I would guess it was Brookfield Place, which is next to World Finance. financial center too, and he's able to break out of the rubble that way. And, you know, 9-11,

surviving or dying that day, it's really about, you know, were you standing here or were you standing right over here? Did you go left or did you go right? So, well, Scrowder, you know, what exactly happened to him in the last minutes, last moments, last seconds, the lobby outside of the building, the shopping center, that, that I cannot say. But the red bandana was recovered, and it is reasonable for that to be recovered. Oh, yeah. He was so close. And, you know, it said that as his family goes to his apartment to investigate his belongings,

they actually found he had a filled out application to join the FDNY that he never got to put in. He was made an honorary member of the FDNY afterwards, and he did work as a volunteer fire, fighter in the state that he came from. So he was really there to rise to the occasion. Do we know how many people he saved? There were 12 people on the Gore floor, the killing floor, floor 78, at least three of them, to my memory, he helped bring down. Wow. Yeah. Do we know why he was in the building that day? They work there. I'm very sorry. I'm blanking out which company that he worked for. Wow. Possibly Morgan Stanley.

Morgan Stanley lost like 17 people out of 2,000 people who got out because of Rick Riskerola. Rick Rescorola was working here in 1993 and he knew the Twin Towers would be attacked again. He knew the next attack would come from the sky. He knew this. You know, as a theory of gut feeling, but as that announcement goes out, At 8.59 a.m., you don't need to leave the South Tower. The building is under control. We're focused on the North Tower right now.

He actually gets into the Port Authority Command Center and reverses the announcement, starts telling people to get out of the building. And so because of his efforts of the 2017 or so employees at Morgan Stanley, only about 14 of them died, including Rick Ruscarola, who was going back to get more people out of the building. That's another hero from that day. Wow. Yeah.

And I believe it was him. He was escorting people down the stairs. Is that correct? That he would sort of walk him in. I think he was like singing or something to that effect? Yes. I have heard this. He wanted to get people's attention.

And it's something like if you work in the South Tower, you probably know who Rick is. You know that name or you know that face. He's that guy. He started singing a song to get people out of the building to get their attention because that announcement was playing on a loop. to not evacuate. And I believe it even continued playing

after the South Tower was hit because the those people working at the Port Authority Command Center, which is either the 48th or the 41st floor, they were having a lot of trouble doing things they were trying to unlock the electronic doors to the roof. They were trying to unlock other electronic doors

and it just didn't really become a priority. Something else that was never a priority was turning off the music in Austin J. Tobin Plaza, which never stopped playing. The music, Billy Joles, she's always a woman, I think that's the name of the song, was playing. Titanic's My Heart Will Go on, an acoustic version, was playing in Austin J. Tobin Plaza throughout the entire events of 9-11. The location that managed the music, the speaker system, was in World Trade Center five, the same place where the daycare was. And that Will Trade Center five did the best of all seven buildings. That was one I think they could have even saved, but they chose to demolish it. All seven of

the original buildings are gone, just to be clear. And it certainly continued, at least until the South Tower came down and possibly a little while afterwards. It's all about how many of the actual loudspeakers survived, but that music is just playing the entire. time and there is at least one man who got footage in the Austin J. Tobin Plaza, and you can hear Billy Joel's music playing. One Reddit user, I believe, successfully uncovered the soundtrack. And so the World Trade Center Plaza soundtrack, as it was on 9-11, because I remember it wasn't those songs. It was a special acoustic version of those songs, no lyrics, has actually been found, and you can listen to that. Wow, how eerie. Yeah. Like as you're evacuating or maybe even like

seeing rubble like you're listening to this music ominously playing in the background like specifically my heart will go on it's like yeah you know sort of ironic and you know terrifying yes wow i mean that is yeah that is unsettling i've never heard that before yeah and you you can uh why am i thinking it's jack telly ercrow's footage um it's pretty public uh if you if you if you are ever looking for footage of 9-11. N-I-S-T-F-O-I-A is the key search result and if you put that into YouTube

you will find all of the video footage there's at least I think 68, 70, 609 pieces of footage that captured the South Tower upwards of 100 camera angles total that day

which was the most recorded event in world history at that time. Today 100 camera angles that's five square feet of a Taylor Swift concert, you know, and in a lot of ways, this, the fact that we do this, this culture, in a lot of ways comes from 9-11. The fact that, like, you know, you became a little bit famous in some ways if you were one of the 100 people who had a camera that day, which, you know, tons of people had cameras.

My dad always brought his camcorder on vacations, and now everybody's recording stuff. we have five people who took photos inside of the Twin Towers on 9-11 during the events. I think one woman also got a beautiful panorama shot of Midtown Manhattan from the North Tower looking uptown at like 6.50 a.m. that day, which she still has, which is, you know, before the events of that day. So there's even more upon what I'm about to talk about. one person took very cryptic photos of employees at Morgan Stanley watching TV sets looking at the South, looking at the North Tower on fire from the South Tower before the South Tower gets hit. Wow.

And another person took photographs of the Plaza and of the North Tower from the South Tower, I believe before the South Tower gets hit. A third person, this dude is on like the 77th floor in the North Tower and he decides he doesn't want to evacuate. He remembers some movie or novel where, you know, something was attacked, people evacuated, and then another attack happened for the people that evacuated. So he says, I'll stay behind. And he cleans out his desk and starts sending out emails. And he gets an email from his brother-in-law saying, I think you should get out of that building. It looks like it's about to collapse. You're probably taking pictures like you always do. And because of him, we have a photograph

of a smoke-filled hallway. Wow. It's not a good photograph. But it is featured at the 9-11 Memorial Museum. And he gets out because he receives that email and decides, you know what, maybe I'll get out. One more person took photographs running down the stairs, and all of his photographs come out blurry,

except for one in which everyone is walking down the stairs, except for one fireman who is running up the stairs. That fireman is one of the last five people to get out of the North Tower before it collapses, thanks to the radio call of Peter Gansy Jr., the head of the FDNY, telling his men, abandon ship, get out of the building right now. And he is still alive, and both of his sons are firemen at his fire department. I mean, that's remarkable.

Yeah, yeah. It's just incredible stories. There are 8,500 stories from the Trade Center alone, and hundreds more from firemen who rushed in there. There's just no limit to stories from that day. one man had a very early, early Blackberry that could record video, and he has very, very low resolution footage of him walking out of the South Tower's lobby. And you can see the evacuation process of the South Tower.

And this is for the people that chose to evacuate before the South Tower is hit. And so he's getting out of there around like 901, 902 a.m. just before the South Tower gets hit. and you can see all of the people evacuating single file before it was clear to people just how terrifying the day was going to become. Wow. Yeah.

What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because it's 2024. And it's time to talk about something important. When you are seriously hurt, your injury could be worth millions. Yes, that's right. The world is a crazy place

and one person's negligence can result in another's settlement. And that's why I got to talk to you about Morgan and Morgan. Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. They have over 100 offices nationwide and over a thousand lawyers. Yes, these are the big boys. You know them, you see them, you see their billboards all over the world.

If you ever drove down I-90 from Florida to New York, I'm telling you, you've seen the billboards. Have you ever watched a UFC fight? You've seen them right on the banner. I'm telling you, these are the biggest guys in the game, all right? With over $20 billion recovered for over 500,000 clients, Morgan and Morgan has a proven track record of fighting to get you full and fair compensation. The annoying thing with most attorneys is that in order to submit a claim, you got to call them up, you got to talk to their people, you got to go back and forth on emails,

you got to hope that they see it. They might charge you just even look at their claim. Here's the cool thing with Morgan and Morgan. With eight clicks or less, you can submit a claim and one of their licensed attorneys will take a look at it and get back to you. It's that easy. It's like ordering something off Amazon. It's just a couple clicks. You can submit your claim very easily and cheap. Yeah, how about zero dollars? That's how much it costs to submit a claim with Morgan and Morgan. Extremely easy. No fee required. So if you are ever injured, you can go check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free unless they win. That's right. Unless they win for you. Unless they fight and get you compensation, you're not paying a single dollar. That's a pretty good deal. So for more information, go to for the people.com slash gagnon. That's correct. F-O-R-the-people.com slash gagnon. Or dial pound law. That's pound 529 from your cell phone. That's for the people. F-O-R-the-people.com.com. That's for the people. F-O-R-the-people.com. com slash gagnon or dial pound law pound 529 from your cell phone this is a paid advertisement now let's get back to the show after the short disclaimer now just for context for you know younger people

that might not be as aware when the first plane struck the north tower many people thought that this was you know some type of flight catastrophe some type of some people initially thought that it was a small you know single engine aircraft that you know struck the plane on accident I think that it happened before, maybe in like the 70s, perhaps. Well, airplanes have hit buildings five times in New York City's history. Once, the first time was the Empire State Building. I'm going to say 1946, 45 or 47, forgive me. A B-25, B-23 bomber was flying over Manhattan.

And it's a small, small, small airplane, three people inside, one pilot, two passengers. And this pilot's looking down, it's a very foggy day. He can't see in front of him, but he looks down, he sees a body of water. He's like, oh, that's the Hudson River. I finish Manhattan. It's not the Hudson River. It's the East River.

He's entering Manhattan. And as he's coming through, he comes down through the clouds. He sees the Chrysler building right in front of him. He pulls up into the right. He's about to crash into Tudor City. He pulls up into the, he pulls another right, and goes right into the 79th floor of the Empire State Building. This impact kills all three people on board.

Ten more people inside of the building, and a 14th person dies of their injuries at a later date. total of 14 people killed. There's one woman on the 86th floor who is heavily injured and she's carried down to the 79th floor put into the elevator and they're going to send her down. The elevator wire snaps because it's damaged from the airplane impact and it plummetes to the bottom of the building. The Guinness Book of World Records calls it the greatest free fall survival in human history.

Wow. She survived that fall and lived to have three children. brave woman, the engineers wanted her to take them up there and show them what happened. And she went back into the building, into the elevator to show them what happened. It's the springs, by the way, at the bottom of the elevator that really saved her life. But the Guinness Book of World Records calls that the greatest free fall survival in human history. Wow. Now, just after that, 40 Wall Street was also hit by an airplane.

40 Wall Street is now known as the Trump building. Donald Trump purchased it in 1993. It's where the first season of The Apprentice was filmed. That's the one with the green rooftop, pretty prominent in Lower Manhattan. It's the first building that the alien spaceship flies over in the movie Independence Day as it's entering Lower Manhattan. I cover other stuff besides 9-11, just so you know. Evidently. Two people were killed on the airplane.

Nobody died inside of the building. And in 2006, a small passenger airplane with the Yankee pitcher crashed into the Bel Air building on the Upper East side. 2006. 2006. So it's happened five times. Only the Empire State Building and the Twin Towers were people inside of the buildings killed. And only on September 11th, which is two of the five instances, was it terrorism. All other instances, it was an accident. Helicopter crashes. I can't keep track. It's that frequent. New York City is a perfectly safe place that you should all visit. It's not frequent, but it's happened at least 10 times helicopter crashes in New York City. And it's usually. a helicopter trying to land on a landing pad on the roof of a building. Wow. That's wild. So people in the South Tower saw this North Tower get hit and likely thought, oh, someone made a mistake, da-da-da. And it wasn't immediately clear that there was, you know, an act of terrorism. Right. Which is why many people decided to stay. It'll be contained. Feel bad for those people

that died, but I got work to do. Exactly. And that was kind of the mindset in a way. It's like that was the mindset of back then, that their mindset probably not so different than bouncing Betty. There's a song, The Ballot of Bouncing Betty, that talks about the woman who survived the elevator crash. And again, the springs cause her to bounce, but they have a similar mindset. You know, I've got work to do. I'm a stockbroker. And that's the majority of people who died, the people in the stock industry, because they were the ones that really had a job that was really about getting there on time. I was curious, what are some

bizarre coincidences from the day? I've, you know, I've heard some different things in pop culture like Seth MacFarlane, Michael Jackson, were all, you know, tacitly connected to the event. Could you just unpack some of the infamous ones? Let's cover Michael Jackson first. It is absolutely true that Michael Jackson did a sold-out performance at Madison Square Garden on September 10th, which a lot of people in New York attended and caused them to be late for work that day. Real quick, another thing that caused people to be late is that it was the primary day,

and a lot of people were going out to vote before coming into the building. Michael Jackson did a performance at Madison Square Garden. Now, where was he on September 11th? Perfectly believable that he spent the night in New York City, also possible that he left New York City. There's a story about him, Marlon Brando and Elizabeth Taylor, taking a road trip across the country. I don't know too much about that.

And there was a TV special that actually tried to turn it into a show, but like the actor playing Michael Jackson was white, and so they just, they can't it. They never aired it. I'd be curious to watch that now. Anyway, Germaine Jackson, Michael Jackson's brother, did an interview sometime after 9-11, sometime after Michael Jackson's death and said that Michael Jackson was up all night talking to his mom or perhaps another family member on the phone. And because he stayed up late, he missed a meeting at the North Tower. This is all at the Twin Towers, windows on the world, the restaurant, which is at the top of the North Tower, the first building to be hit.

He misses this meeting because he stayed up all night talking to Mom. And the next day he said, Mom, you saved my life. okay Jermaine who was he meeting what was the meeting about is this person who was meeting Michael Jackson one of the people who died on 9-11

waiting up there to meet Michael Jackson you're going to need to give us a little bit more information because without that information sounds like you made this up for attention I am going to put that one in likely false yeah I don't know if Michael Jackson had a you know if he was known for sleeping that well

like I'm pretty sure his inability to sleep is kind of a cause him to die, if I remember correctly. Yeah, and like, but, you know, then there's also the fact he could be like a careless guy, like, you know, how like you said, like, oh, yeah, I'll get up at 6.30 a.m. tomorrow. And then, like, you know, the buzzer goes off at 1 p.m. still in bed. It's a possibility. He was in New York City on September 10th doing a sold-out performance. The belief that he spent the night is perfectly plausible. What Michael Jackson did on September 11th,

we will at this point probably never know. Although actually, you know, if his agents or managers could probably clear that up. Another family member, we'd love to hear you step in and speak to fill in on germane story, but for lack of better evidence, I would put that one in likely false. And what is Seth McFarland's connection? Obviously, the creator of family guy and a funny comedian. What was his story? Seth McFarland was supposed to be on flight 11.

And he was late by 10 minutes, and he missed the airplane. and he's hanging out, you know, feeling miserable, you know, how much it sucks to miss an airplane. He's hanging out of the bar and he sees what happened and he asked the bartender at the airport, like, which flight was that? He's like, or he just figured out. He just said, I'm supposed to be on that airplane and the bartender poured him a free drink.

Mark Wahlberg was also supposed to be on Flight 11, but I think with him, he made the decision, like, I'm not going to do this meeting or this flight, I'm not going to go to this place. And very interesting, Seth McFarland and Mark Wahlberg years later, I'm very good friends and they make the two TED movies. Oh, wow.

Yeah, yeah. And that's a interesting coincidence to come from that day. Seth McFarlane makes a lot of 9-11 jokes. And to which I say, there's a time and a place. You know, if you, my stance with everything is if you can make somebody laugh, you're off the hook. And I think in some ways that, like, humor is a great way to come. hope with tragedy. Absolutely.

If you can, if, you know, go for it. If you make somebody laugh, you're off the hook. If they haven't laughed, it's like, oh, you fucked up. Survivor's guilt must be crazy, though. I mean, that must be devastating. I can't even imagine. Yeah. I can't even imagine.

Now, Steve Buscemi. Steve Buscemi, great actor, great genuine person, was a fire. Moving on. No, that's all I wanted. I just want to know your opinion on Steve Bishammy. Steve Bishamie, he's a fantastic person, and he came down to volunteer. He used to work at the Little Italy, FDNY, and he saw it was happening, and he came down, and I think he got there after the towers had collapsed, but he helped out for five days.

And he was already an actor at this point. Already an actor at this point, and he does appear in several photographs, which, you know, photographs taken incidentally, not somebody probably even aware that that firefighter is Steve Buscemi all the get up and everything. He blends in with everybody. But Steve Buscemi certainly helped for several days during the cleanup, especially during that time where they were searching for survivors amongst the rubble. Wow.

Yeah. Now, I've heard some stories of dogs that were, you know, connected to September 11th. Are you familiar with these stories, both like guide dogs but also like rescue dogs? So there's a couple of stories about dogs. And the first one I want to cover is that there was one dog that wasn't rescued from the kennel, a dog named Sirius, who died in the collapse of the Twin Towers. This is the Port Authority Command Center, the Port Authority Police Department's dog kennel.

One dog did not get out, dog named Sirius, and that dog sadly died that day. There were two vision-impaired people who had seeing eye dogs, both of whom guided their masters out of the building that day. And both those dogs obviously are not still around, but they were given medals. They were rewarded and recognized for their bravery. In one instance, a guy, he told, he just couldn't get out of the building and he told his dog to go ahead.

The dog starts to go ahead and then comes back and gets him and this guy survives because of his seeing eye dog. Finally, during the cleanup of 9-11, dogs, rescue dogs were used, but these rescue dogs are trained to find survivors amongst rubble of buildings. They're being used long after there's any hope for finding a survivor and they're basically, their skill is being manipulated. they're used to find human remains when they were trained to find survivors and the dogs started getting severe depression because all they could find was dead people and

what the FDNY decided to do was to hide amongst the rubble as survivors so that the dogs could find some living people throughout the day and feel that they were doing their jobs correctly. That is heartbreak. Yeah. That the dogs are getting depressed.

Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. Like, you know, I don't talk about the dogs too much. And when you talk about 9-11 regularly, there's certain things that can really make me. I'm an empath. I really feel other people. I consider myself like an energy giver,

which is why I enjoy what I do. And there's certain things like when I have to talk about the children who died that day. There were six or seven children who died that day. They were all on airplanes. There were 10 unborn children who died that day. And there are times in the beginning where like, you know, that really just breaks me up. And I'm trying, like, not to tear up in front of my people because I don't want it to turn into that.

I want them to learn, not feel. I also fear it could be exploitive to, like, you know, make the one single tear go down my face. It's like I'm not trying to do that. But then you say it again and again and again and again and again and again and again. You grow numb to it. And then there's other stories that don't tell too often. And like, I feel it right now. And then I feel the guilt.

to like, oh, you cried over the dog, but you didn't cry over the little girl. You know, it's a complicated thing. But you get through it, get through repetition. But yeah, some of these stories are just not in my usual repertoire, and I'm remembering the dog serious right now.

Do you have any idea who the person, the last survivor, how long they were in the rubble for, like the last saved person? 28 hours. Wow. Oh my God, I'm blanking on her name. Forgive me for that, but she was a secretary with the Port Authority,

and she was under that rubble for 28 hours. Wow. Yeah. And how did she survive? Do you know any of the details of her survival? The general story of how most people survive the rubble. There is the 9-11 surfer who slides through the rubble from the 22nd floor and ends up across the street.

There are the 14 people who survived because of the miracle of stairwell B. And Sterewell B was just like a little section of the building that stayed standing a little northwest corner of the tower. And they were able to just simply walk out afterwards. It wasn't too difficult for them to get out once the building was done collapsing. These are the miracle survivors? These are the miracle survivors.

The miracle of Sterewell B. and Sterewell B is an artifact that remains at the 9-11 Museum that you can see for yourself. Just absolutely incredible. I think 12 firemen, one police officer, and one port authority worker, and they're evacuating because of Peter Gancy Jr.'s radio call, telling them to get out of the building. And I think, I think actually the woman, the Port Authority employee, the Trade Center employee, died of a 9-11 lung disease recently, but I believe the rest of them are still alive. and there's the two police officers who are covered in the film World Trade Center and then there is this last woman who is rescued that day. I'm very sorry that I'm blanking on her name right now,

but she has pulled out 28 hours later. Wow. So, okay, so just to cover these people who survive really, really inside of the building, that was your question. In general, it's all about being near a support column. and the support column kind of coming like this onto something else that's solid and debris landing on top of that support column and that support column shielding you. This woman stopped to like tie her shoe on her way down and her friend evacuating

with her right in front of her died. That's just another example about surviving 9-11, making it out of their unhinged, untouched, is all about being left or right, one step forward, one step back. it was all just a series of luck from that day. Wow. Now, one of the more morbid details of the whole event, which was sort of reluctant to discuss, but I think it's important is the people that jumped.

But fallen. Yeah. Not everybody jumps. Some people, as they're rushing to these windows to get air. They just want to breathe air. They feel this intense heat. They're just doing whatever they can.

They rush to the window. well, they're not the only person on that floor and other people rush to the front and they're getting pushed out accidentally by people in back of them. Please understand when your body reaches these temperatures, all you can do is just get away from the smoke, get away from the heat. And this is something that's happening automatically. This is not suicide nor is it murder for those that push other people. But that is how a lot of them are falling. there are also other people who attempt to climb down. And other than one man on the western side of the North Tower at 9.41 a.m., these people who attempt to climb down using telephone wire or clothing tied together, they don't last very long.

National Institute of Standards and Technology, NIST, I believe, has determined that 107 people jumped or fell from the North Tower. three people from the South Tower. South Tower, because a lot of the explosion happens outside of the building, although it's more heavily damaged. It actually has a bit less smoke and a bit less heat. And I think all three of them were people that were attempting to climb down, probably because their doors were jammed or because they didn't know about stairwell A, which was still active and people could get up and down that.

Again, it's the heat. For some people, it's the sprinkler system did work on some floors, and their clothes are soaked and then that's starting to steam on their bodies which is why they're ripping off their clothing most likely. We will never know who each of these people who appear in the windows are. We can speculate.

You know, gentleman has jet black hair, windows on the world, and there was a Korean gentleman who worked there. It's likely him, et cetera, et cetera. A lot of people believe the waving woman at the bottom of the North Tower's impact zone, is Edna Centron because of her physical similarity to Edna Cron

and the waving woman is often called Endocentron we will never know. There's a story a lot of people don't cover. I believe it was a Boston newspaper used the FBI as its source but there is apparently one jumper who jumped with a disposable camera that has photographs

from what was happening inside, and that the FBI contacted family members of those pictured saying, do you want to see these, to which they said no. And this disposable camera, which was only covered in one news article, but they mentioned the FBI as their source, has not been released. And people can make FOIA requests for this stuff. but again, that's some of the more morbid stuff,

to which I say about all this morbid stuff since we're talking about it. There are people who can look at that stuff. There are people who can't, who won't, and you either are one of those people or you're not one of those people. And I understand why, you know, ABC, NBC Fox, you know, they're not going to put that on their networks.

They're not going to put that on their websites because, you know, people channel flip, they see that stuff, don't want to come across that stuff. But if you are somebody who can look at it and you look at it from the perspective, I want to verify this, I want to see it for myself, I want to understand this, if it's not coming from some sort of perversion, then I say it should be available in a certain place for those people who can look at this

to do so, which might be better if it's not on the internet, if it's a more private section of the museum with, you know, trigger warnings. Like those of you who go beyond here, this is what you will see. It, I would support it ultimately becoming available in some sort of format that, you know, people can't stumble across it. That is one of the more fascinating things.

there is one man who appears in a window who appears to be holding something in his hand like this and he makes this motion which seems like he is using a camcorder and filming if this man is the same man as the person with the disposable camera we do not know this man appears to be holding a video camera it could also however be a cell phone and he's trying to get reception to make a call

I feel like he would be going more like this if it were a cell phone. We can't tell. We can't tell. It's not high resolution enough. Wow. Now, there were a couple other folks who passed away on September 11th, but were not at the World Trade Center. Two people who fit the category of being neither first responders nor trade center employees.

This is who you're talking about. Precisely. They would be William Biggert, the only jury. journalist to die that day. The videographer for the FDNY, and I believe the videographer for the NYPD also died that day, but they would be considered first responders, not journalists. William Biggert is the only journalist to die that day. He's one of the few journalists who doesn't run when the South Tower comes down. And so the North Tower is still standing. He is taking some breathtaking photographs of the destruction as the smoke starts to clear,

including a photograph of the Marriott Hotel World Trade Center 3, ripped in half. And this photograph is considered the last photograph that he ever took. The National Institute of Standards and Technology has determined that this photograph was taken three seconds before the North Tower started to collapse, which came down in roughly 11 seconds. So I would say clearly this photograph is taken 15 seconds before he will die. And his body and his cameras are found five days later, four or five days. later. Two digital cameras, one film camera, and I think it's the digital camera that was recovered. The film cameras were destroyed, which is believable memory card, just smaller thing,

more likely to survive. Smaller objects were more likely to survive. And people talk about the passport of one of the hijackers. You have to remember that it is sealed in plastic. It would more likely go flying and it's not necessarily going to burn up. You have to look at all the paper flying out of the buildings, which is not on fire. A lot of it just gets blown out as crazy of a coincidence as it is. It's not the most unlikely thing. This guy's memory card is saved. So that's how we have as photographs. The other person is Dr. Sneha and Philip. Dr. Sneha and Philip lived in Battery Park City. And she is a doctor. It's in the name. She is last seen on September 10th at the century 21. Century 21 is still here. It's right next to the Oculus at the new

World Trade Center, and, you know, it's a, I'm going to say a thousand feet away from the North Tower, probably 800 feet away from the South Tower. She's last seen on Century 21 on September 10th, shopping. And she apparently made a phone call to a friend on September 10th. I want to get dinner at Windows on the World. Now remember, this is dinner on September 10th, not breakfast on September 11th. In any sense, she does not do that with her friend. Very early in the morning, on September 11th, she appears on a security camera footage at the apartment building she lived in. And it's a silhouette. The way the lighting is striking, you can't tell. Her husband says, fiancé, her husband says, I believe that's my, I believe that's her, but unclear. And then she goes

missing. No piece of her is ever found. No piece of her DNA has ever found. And no footage has her visible. And so she ends up being the most questionable name at the nine of a memorial. Did Dr. Sneha and Philip see what happened that day and for whatever personal reason decide, I say this with all respect to her family, to her, and I would say the most likely thing is that she did die that day. But as we entertain this, did she use this as an opportunity to run away and start a new life? Well, she wouldn't be the only person that tried. The last three people to come forwards and reveal themselves as alive were in December of 2002. So this is 14, 15 months later after 9-11.

And what I believe happened is they heard their names read at the first anniversary, kind of like saw the gravity of the situation, what they were doing. And I believe some of them started to notice they had death certificates in their names. And they basically came forward and said like, hi, look at me, I'm alive. I'm not dead. All three of them, I believe, were immigrants. All three of them had strained relationships with their family members, so they were not answering phone calls.

And, you know, immigrants, the families can't go knock on the door. He's still around. So they didn't, like, really feel they need to call mom and dad and say, hey, I'm alive. They were kind of like, you know, for like a better term, F you mom and dad. This charade, whether intentional or unintentional, whether they were aware of it that are unaware of it. I'm not seeking to blame anybody or criticize them. went on until December of 2002.

That is the last time anybody was removed from the list of the dead. Wow. So Dr. Sneha and Philip likely died that day. Her family did fight hard to get her name listed

at the 9-11 Memorial and she likely died. But if there's any name to question from that day, she would be the most likely one. Wow. I mean, it's possible there's still people that, you know, made a new life that never came forward.

that is absolutely a possibility as far-fetched as it is and you know i don't want to enter i don't want to enter any disrespectful categories you know because people lost their loved ones that day and it's it's painful to make the suggestion that my loved one is like you know choosing not to talk to me or something it's it's it is crazy but not so crazy that you know at least three people tried it um deliberately or undiliberately um um Um, Dr. Sneha and Philip, I believe is one of the people who was outed as being a lesbian and having an affair with a woman. Wow. This suggestion adds a little bit more evidence to the possibility that, you know, somebody's having an affair.

Just the chance that they would run away and start a new life, chances go up by 0.1%, um, but to be clear, this woman she had the affair with, I believe also came forward. Uh, and she's not with that woman. So just something I wanted to add. Absolutely. Yeah. Now there was a gentleman, I believe, who was killed. Like he was murdered outside of the events. And receive a whack.

And this is a bizarre story as well. He's the only other person to die in New York City on September 11th outside of what happened at the Trade Center. And he was an immigrant. He had a job in Lower Manhattan, which wasn't going to happen after all that. And so he just started looking for other work and apparently found a clear. cleaning job. It's a little bit strange. It's like it's a cleaning job and they want you coming in at 11 o'clock at night and, uh, you know, but life goes on and, uh, he gets off, he either gets off

at the wrong train stop or he gets off at the right one, but he walks the wrong way after getting off. And he was shot and killed. I believe he tended to dress in military fatigues and, you know, he has a thick, uh, accent. Given the heated emotions of that day, somebody, and this was a very dangerous neighborhood that he was killed in, which the police, I think, called the most dangerous in New York at that time. Somebody killed him.

It's possible they just, you know, they were like, oh, foreign accent, terrorist, this ignorant person who did this, his killer was never found. I think the case was closed, just undetermined, but there are actually people in the NYPD who fight to have it reopened

because they'd love to bring some closure to this one, only other murder, which happened that day. Wow. Yeah, that's fascinating. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick, because if you're anything like me, you like a little caffeine kick. You like to maybe grab a coffee, maybe one or two during the day, but you can't always access it. You know, maybe you're going on a hike. Maybe you're at the airport four in the morning. They don't have any coffee around. You still need your caffeine. That's why you got to check out Bashmouth. Bashmouth is a completely healthy, natural, clean energy gum.

That's right. You heard me. Within each little piece of gum that comes to this little discreet package, you get 130, of natural caffeine, that's like a little boost. That's like a little coffee and a half for you. And if you need it, like me, sometimes I'm going to the gym and I don't want to drink a pre-workout that's going to have all sorts of other chemicals in it. I pop a bashmouth. I mean, this is like if gushers and bubbleish just had a baby without any of the bad stuff. There's no dyes, no sugar, no gluten. None of that nonsense. It stays soft and flavorful for hours. It's not going to make your jaw hurt after a couple minutes. And the delivery system is instant because you're chewing it. It uses green coffee bean extract, and so you get the neutropic effects from chewing.

No jitters, no crashing. You feel great. And not only is this for athletes that are going to the gym, maybe you're a traveler, maybe you're a hiker, like I said. Maybe you're like me stuck at the airport, and you just want a little bit of coffee. You've got to check out Bashmouth, caffeinated gum. Yes, Bashmouth is the greatest caffeinated gum on the market.

And they got two great flavors. They got spearmint, or they got this one right here, Poppy's Sour Apple. And if you're interested, if you're a listener of this show, I got great news. If you use the promo code Gagnon 20, that's right, Gagnon G-G-A-G-N-O-N-20. When you check out, you're going to get 20% off your total order site-wide.

That's correct. I recommend you go check them out at bashmouth.com. That's B-A-S-H-M-O-U-T-H. And you can get yours today. Use the promo code Gagnon 20, and you will get 20% off your entire order. Caffeinated gum. Stay alert, stay locked in the natural way. Let's get back to the show.

Okay, John, I want to ask you some of the more controversial. elements and aspects that surround this day. It's obviously just rife with conspiracy and, you know, alternate theories and speculation. I think probably due to the fact, one, that it's like so significant, of course, and just such an insane loss of life and also the political implications that then followed, it makes sense that I think that there's a lot of speculation. Also, it seems like a lot of the information wasn't made readily available at the time, which kind of caused more people to speculate.

Right. Well, you know, you have to do an investigation on this after it happens, and it's not going to happen overnight. So there is some degree of what's reasonable in there. The big debate that will continue for some time is, well, here's what's not up for debate. Were important players careless leading up to 9-11? It's not up for debate. The answer is yes. Did high-ranking officials exploit this after the fact? It's not up for debate. absolutely they did look all respect to our great american troops and everything they do we went over to afghanistan we bombed goat farmers for 20 years and have very little for our troubles and i say this all respect to our american troops who fought so hard um but i i do feel that what happened in the middle east after this was exploitation uh for oil and the big question is okay, are there high-ranking officials in governments who knew about this beforehand, allowed it to happen, and encouraged it to happen? That is something that should be questioned.

And I'm not going to claim that I can give you information today. I'm not going to claim to make, I'm not going to make a claim, but I will give you information, and it seems like it is a very real possibility. but let me make one thing absolutely clear. How do you destroy the Twin Towers? You fly an airplane into them at 600 miles per hour. That will absolutely do it. Because if you believe conspiracies about how the buildings collapsed,

it's because you believe the first lie you were told, a lie told to you by the port authority that these are the safest buildings ever made. And they were not. Hmm. So this was a claim that they had said for years, leading up to this? Their claim, for one thing, was that it could survive the impact of a 747 at 600 miles per hour.

They said this? Yes. The Port Authority said this. And officials have said in a documentary on the Twin Towers made in 2001 that if an airplane were to hit it, it'd be like putting a pencil through a mosquito net. It's just going to get stuck right in there. They said that prior to the events? And at 600 miles per hour, absolutely. This is either documented or on vanguard.

video. I'm certain. They made that claim. A fun fact, when the Twin Towers were being built, the Empire State Building ran an ad saying you shouldn't build the Twin Towers. You have to cap them at 1,200 feet because it's going to affect air traffic and they can get hit by an airplane. Now, this is the Empire State Building, jealous of the fact. The building is jealous. People who run the building are jealous that, you know, the Twin Towers are going to take their title away of tallest building in New York City. But like this, you can find this ad and it's the Twin Towers with an airplane flying like right above them. And look, how do you determine if a building can survive the impact of an airplane?

You have to fly an airplane into a building or at a very minimum a scale model. Scale models. This was not done. The National Institute of Standards and Technology mentions this claim by the Port Authority, but mentions they didn't really give any evidence to like support this. It's like, well, we believe this because here's the test that we ran to determine it. They just said it. The Port Authority is not regulated by the city of New York.

The Port Authority is regulated by the Port Authority. I am someone who utilizes the service of the Port Authority every day of my life. I take it to get into work very, very, very often. And I think actually it's more good than bad how they run their train service. I actually think they do a very good job. So I'm not trying to like disney people who work for them, you know, the trains, the engineers and everything like that. But this institution is not regular. regulated by the city of New York. They're not required to go along with New York City's regulations, and they brag when they're making the Twin Towers. We're not required to go along with New York City's regulations, but we're going to use the 1968 regulations instead of the 1934 regulations just to, you know, be as safe as possible. 1934 regulations were safer. 1968, 68 were less strict. Really?

1934, six staircases required in the buildings. 1968, three staircases required in the buildings. 1934, fire safety, boy, I'm going to screw up these numbers. Fire safety level three, which can withstand 2,000 degrees. 1968, fire safety level 2, which can withstand around 1,200 degrees, far less safe. The fireproofing is just immediately blown off by the impact of the airplane. And that's why all of these things, this drywall, this carpet, office furniture, it's all lighting on fire. These things will burn and burning at these temperatures

will not melt the steel beams or steel columns. Jet fuel, also known as refined kerosene, cannot melt them. It can weaken them. It can weaken them. It can cause them to bend and buckle, and they can no longer support the weight of what's above them. And remember, you have like these 10, so the North Tower, for example, you have like these eight damaged floors, or 93, to floor down. So seven damaged floors supporting 10 additional floors on top, 11 additional floors on top of that, and they're damaged. Eventually, after some time, it collapses, and it's

all going to come down in a free falling motion. It's not going to go tumbling and flying in some direction, because this upper portion of the building is the heaviest object in the world at this point. It is going straight down. Now, there are some pieces of the buildings that go much further. It's mostly the smaller piece. The aluminum siding, because remember, it was steel columns on the exterior, but it was coated in aluminum. That's why it had that nice shiny silver look to it.

And those pieces can go a little bit further. Pieces at the exact impact zone, either because it was hit by the airplane or in the initial collapse will go much, much further. But for the most part, it is all going straight down, straight down. And that's where it all ends up. The gray smoke that you see floating through the city is compressed drywall and also pieces of the concrete, which either will get turned into powder or also go straight down. Now, where did this meme come from?

Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams? Why are people even talking about this? It's a loose change documentary. Loose change documentary. And that came out. That was the first group to like really, really question this. Now, one of the things they point out, uh,

or at least is pointed out by others, is the molten steel coming out of the South Tower. Guys in City Hall Park, so he's looking at the northeast corner of the South Tower, two minutes before it collapses, molten steel is coming out. Now, we know it's not molten aluminum from the airplane or molten aluminum from the siding because that would be silver in color. It is red in color, which means that it is molten steel coming out of this one section. People say, aha, that's the, you know, the thermite or the explosives going off or the thing to make it melt. well the answer is actually UPS and Fuggey Bank. Fuggey Bank installed UPS batteries, uninterrupted power supply, unlimited power supply or uninterrupted power supply.

It's not the post office. They installed these batteries in the 90s. And this is also another example of irresponsibility on behalf of the Port Authority that they let somebody have this like batteries. And these are heavy things. They had to reinforce that section of the building to put these batteries up there. Now, a carpet fire, a jet fuel fire, a drywall fire, it's all like, you know, 400,200 degrees. You can look that up for yourselves. A battery fire, well, that's over like 4,000 degrees.

That area is absolutely going to melt the steel columns, steel beams in that section. And it is more than likely one of the several contributing factors to why the South Tower collapses first. The other being the fact that it was hit lower and the damaged portion is holding far more floors. That's the biggest, biggest difference. and the North Tower had reinforcements after 1993. But not the South Tower. Once again, okay, Port Authority, you're going to reinforce the North Tower after the bombing,

but not the other tower. The terrorists are just going to bomb the other tower than if they know that. I mean, maybe that was a childish thing to say, but you know what I'm saying? Like, they only reinforced one of them. So that is the explanation for all of that red stuff dripping out

of the South Tower two minutes before it. collapses. That is exactly where Fuji Bank installed the UPS batteries. And for anyone who questioned that, who saw that and said, you know, that's proof that, you know, the government is lying to, you know something? You had every right and reason to question this because that has not been explained to people. And that visual, that visual that appears in every single camera angle that's facing that section of the building is completely contradictory to the story that you're being told, and the fact that that is not included more often, as people explain, jet fuel can't melt steel beams, but it can weaken steel beams. The fact that that's not included more often, hey, this is what that is something that I'd like to change. It's Fuji Bank and UPS batteries. That is what is causing that to happen in that one section of the building. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I saw a great video. I forget exactly who did it, but basically he shows a steel beam and then heats it to, the level that, you know, like the fires

were likely burning at. And he says, yeah, you're right. Jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams, but they can bend quite easily. And he's able to bend it with just the force of his arm. And you can imagine, you know, if this fire is raging for, you know, how long was it going for before a collapse? 846 to 1028

is the North Tower, so that's 100, 8, somebody did the math for me, 74, 28, 90, Some smarter person's watching. They figured it up. 102 minutes, and I knew that.

I don't know why I tried to do the math. South Tower, much less, 56 minutes. And that was the one that was not reinforced. That was the one that was not reinforced. But again, don't think too much about that. That might not even be a factor. It's really the fact that the South Tower is hit lower that causes it. Interesting.

Damage portion is holding far more floors. So it's like, how do you walk on your feet when your foot is injured versus how do you walk when your shoulder is injured, but your shoulders injured, you're going to walk just fine. Your foot is injured. You're going to walk with a lip. So it's like that. Interesting. That makes a lot of sense. Now, when the tower's actually collapsed and fell kind of into their footprint, if you walked up to the rubble, you know, like that evening, how high would the rubble be? Do you know, like? Exceptionally high. And this is another thing. A lot of the footage that you get, it's really hard to get that perspective. I am going to get you a photograph of a family cleaning their car.

like on September 12th it must be and it's really, really ground level and you can see just how high the pile is. You're usually looking at aerial footage, looking down and you really need something with a person for scale. I understand why people question that. It's all right there.

And it mostly went straight down. So it's all about like a trick of the camera angle. There are certain camera angles where it becomes clear just how massive the pile is. And remember, it breaks through the ground into the shopping center below ground. So a lot of it is below ground as well.

Interesting. Yeah. Now, oh, because there was a whole section underground that it fell into. Oh, yeah. Do you know how deep that was, roughly? I imagine it's as deep as the current Westfield Shopping Center, which is in the Oculus.

Like two stories or like? Oh, two, three stories. Yeah. Interesting. Wow. Now, there's obviously the claim that, you know, the buildings were outfitted with explosives. And where does this claim come from? And what do you make of it?

Okay, there's one guy that has this claim about a power outage on September 10th or something like that. He's the only person to make this claim. And somebody even found video camera footage of somebody going to the top of the Twin Towers on that day. He's the only person making that claim out of here. Nope, not qualified enough. If you're going to present me with a conspiracy, understand it's on you to answer these questions. So next one is going to be Ace Elevators. Ace Elevators was doing a series of renovations on the buildings, the elevators in the days before.

There is also, I believe, a cleaning crew cleaning out the asbestos, and they have video documents of themselves being inside of the building. There's no debating this. I would just say, and you know, the whole thing, like was Ace Elevators behind it? I doubt that, um, ace elevators. I'm never getting a sponsorship with them now. I just, I would just say that I doubt it or other people slipping in with ace elevators. The employees aren't aware. There's just another guy wearing the uniform going off and doing something else.

I just, I doubt it. I doubt it. I doubt it. I doubt it. I doubt it. I doubt it. I just think if there is a conspiracy, um, I don't think that's necessary because of how the Twin Towers, uh, were built. I'm actually amazed they lasted as long as they did, given the way they were built. Now, there's two other things. The gelatin Art Project B thing, get ready, and the E team, to which I'm going to say, ultimately conclude before I talk about them, I just don't think so. Jelitin Art Project B thing, the group of Austrian art students.

If somebody told you that the Jelot Project B thing was Israeli art students, that's something different. They are Austrian. and they are given a job to rent out one of the floors in the North Tower. They are to remove one of the windows from the North Tower, build a wooden balcony, stand on that wooden balcony, and then take a helicopter from the Millennium Hilton Hotel nearby, believe it was the Millennium,

and fly it by and take some photographs with them standing on the wooden balcony. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the dumbest piece of art you've ever heard of in your life, right? Yeah, I don't get it, but I don't get most of it. but I don't get most art. Yeah, well, a lot of art is a scam, but let's not get into it. They released a photo book,

gelatin art project B thing. And in their photo book, there's some very crude, crude drawings. And let me stop by saying, if you're going to start down this rabbit hole, start with the New York Times article from August of 2001 discussing the gelatin art project B thing

should be available in the Times Machine archives, just to verify this happened. What it means is, is up for debate, but absolutely happened. New York Times covered it before 9-11. And in this photo book that they released, which I think you can buy for like 1,500 on Amazon right now, they have photographs of them inside the Twin Towers. They have very crude drawings of like, you know, things that are tasteless at the time, but extremely tasteless after the fact of people like stick figures falling from the buildings, the building's blowing up, just a weird,

cryptic stuff like that. And then also there are photographs of them next to boxes marked BB18, which is a fuse used in electrical wiring. Now there's another art group that went up there and their job was to turn off all the lights in the Twin Towers except for several lights to spell out the words E-Team. Where did they spell out the words E-Team in the window? Exactly where the North Tower was hit.

And so as the theory goes, Jelton Art Project B thing installed the fuses in March of 2000, and then the E team about a year later, installed the explosives. That's what blew up the Twin Towers. Okay. They didn't quite have access to all of the floors. This is both in the North Tower.

It doesn't explain anything about the South Tower. It's bizarre. Those are the things that people point to for who could have gotten into these towers. beforehand. Jealous on our project B thing, E team, the one dude who says the power went out, who just has none of his information verified, fuck that guy.

And then the ACE elevators, and I believe a team that was cleaning out the asbestos. That is what people point to for when this could have happened. And I just say it doesn't. And then there's other people who say that the explosives were there since the buildings were constructed, to which I say, okay, too many videos documenting the building of it,

too many people going in and out. And first, why didn't the bombs go off in 1975 during the fire? There was a fire in 1975 started by an arsonist burnt up 10 floors and then why didn't those bombs go off in 1993? Let's just cross that one off the list like that just cannot be true. The bombs there since the beginning.

This is what people point to when they say how could somebody get bombs in there and I just repeatedly go back to the same thing. Some of these things are strange but it just that there's much more that you need to explain to point to that stuff. off. It's like the explosives and fuses were there for like several months beforehand. That just sounds really unstable. It also just doesn't make sense. And they have this all time to go all floor

after floor after floor after floor. And an explosive makes off a very clear sound. Do you only hear the sound of the building collapsing? You know that. You only hear that. You're not hearing too many bangs within that. People point out these little coming out of lower windows as the buildings are coming down. and I'm like, all right, but you don't, that's a partial floor collapse as the building is coming down and it's sending down like, you know, a little shockwave that's blowing out one window. I don't, I just, it's interesting.

There are things to look at. I will question the gelatin art project B thing and the E team, because that is quite bizarre, but it just doesn't add up. What is the E team? Well, the E team is the people who wrote like E team. It's another stupid art project. It's an art installation thing.

Yeah, they're going to turn off the windows and turn it into E-Team. And they get approval through the World Trade Center. The Port Authority and also city government, it was just, they were approved to do this weird art project, just turn off some windows and turn some on so that the word E-Team is written in the window. Hmm. That's some type of marketing stunt basically for their art group or something like that? Yeah. All right. Yeah.

I mean, again, this is kind of like an Occam's razor thing, right? Like, what is the simplest explanation? Is it possible? I mean, sure. I mean, anything's possible. But is it more likely that there was an impact that then, you know, weakened a bunch of floors in the middle? Yeah. But was able to sustain the weight for a period of time.

And then those floors collapsed and then collapsed another floor and another floor. That doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility to me. That seems very, very reasonable in the simplest explanation. Especially with the Twin Towers. You know how much concrete was used in the core? None. Really? You know how much concrete was used in the exterior columns?

None. You know how many internal support columns they had? Zero. Wow. If a 760... I'm going to make a bold claim right now that I hope never gets proven. If a 767 hit the Empire State Building at 600 miles per hour, I don't think it would collapse.

Empire State Building has a lot more going for it structurally, not to mention better fireproofing. The Twin Towers, not only had the worst fireproofing, and by the way, the National Institute of Standards and Technology says in their report, if they just had the higher level

of fireproofing, the impact enough alone wouldn't be enough to cause the buildings to collapse. It's that continuing fire that weakens the steel beams and columns that causes it to collapse. The Twin Towers

were basically these giant skeletons. The open-airy nature is actually what causes the smoke and the heat and the flames to go up. If you could get that clip of a woman from the fire in 1975 talking about how she's concerned about safety in the building after the fire, it's old black and white footage. She just says, you know, I was 10 floors above it

and I could barely breathe because of all of the smoke and I'm concerned about safety. Just a little hint. There's a chief of the FDNY back then actually said, you know, I'd sleep a lot better at night if the Twin Towers had a sprinkler system. A sprinkler system had to be retrofitted into the building in 1981.

And a lot of it's outside of the core, which is why it's destroyed and why it's not working on most of these floors. Stand pipes were likely damaged as well. Oreo Palmer is one firefighter. This dude is the strongest man in New York City, by the way. He won the FDNY's Fitness Award on five separate occasions. He beat 30,000 people in the New York Marathon in 1989. He gets into the South Tower, and he repairs the...

elevator with an associate's degree in engineering from a community college. He gets all the way up to the 41st floor, 100 pounds of gear on his back. He runs all the way up to the 78th floor. He gets to that gore floor that we talked about earlier. And he, you know, his voice changes in tone, like when he gets up there, he sees horrors, the likes of which I don't want to imagine. He says multiple 10-5-5s, people who are dead, multiple DOAs, dead on arrival. They're alive, but they have no chance of survival and multiple people who are incapacitated but still alive. And he says on the radio, I need two battalions and two hoselines connected to the standpipes. I can put out the two pockets of fire in the south tower. He will die when the south tower collapses. He and everyone whose life

he was trying to save. And, you know, survived by two daughters and a son. He will die from that. He makes this claim. And he, you know, other people say there was no putting out the fire. He has a guy who got to that top floor and says he could put out the fire. And he wants to connect with the hoses to the standpipes. And that's how you get water up to a building. This is in the stairwell. With the standpipes working, would that have worked? We will never know. But it is the fire that ultimately did this, this continuously burning fire that is burning because it has the lower fire safety ranking. And I imagine you change any one of these things with the Twin Towers. They could have survived, just internal support columns, like the Empire State Building has like all these

internal support columns to fall back on. The Twin Towers, they were just open-air buildings. And the core, this is what's interesting. I once got at it with somebody who claims they worked on the Twin Towers who says, what are you talking about? They had 47 internal support columns. Well, that's the core, the 47 steel box columns. If those are the internal support columns, then there's no core. If it's the core, then there's no internal support columns. The Empire State Building has all three of these things. External support, internal support columns, internal core. Can't tell me the core and the columns are the same thing. It's one or the other. So I just wanted to clarify that, yes, there are 47 box steel columns that make up the core of the building. And, you know, if you have internal support columns,

that's just something that's going to slow down an airplane before it breaches the core. To be clear, both towers, clearly it is the exterior that fails first because the core remains standing. In the south tower, I think for like two or three seconds after the collapse can concludes. In the north tower, I think for something closer to like 15 or 20 seconds, and this is very clear in certain camera angles. The core just remains standing for a little bit, and sadly, it is very possible. There are people still standing in that core who survive an additional 15 seconds. Yes.

Directed energy weapons. This is a theory people like to throw out. can you explain what a directed energy weapon is? And, you know, they exist in some capacity. They exist. Were they used on September 11th? I'm skeptical, but... Boy, oh boy, the government has direct energy weapons,

invisible toxic lasers that are silent. Oh, why would you ever even oppose the government? We don't stand a chance. I mean, it certainly exists. The whole idea that it could bring down an entire building just seems ludicrous. Now, I know that's what. what people said that's what's happening and why these people are ripping off their clothes in the Twin Towers.

They say it's because they're being hit by a direct energy weapon. Well, okay, explain to me why then, I guess they didn't use that on the South Tower because only three people fell from that and these three people fall in their attempt to climb down. They're not jumping. So I guess they didn't use the direct energy weapon on the South Tower then, but they only used it on the North Tower and the South Tower still collapsed. again, when you bring this up, it's really on you to explain all these different things. I'm going with no. There was no direct energy weapon used, just a very poorly designed building. And by the way, when you spread, when you push these theories, understand, you're providing cover for the Port Authority.

And I got to be friends because I walk through the Port Authority's property every day of my life. I run tours over there. the people who work there now are not the people who worked on September 11 and certainly not the people who designed the Twin Towers. God bless you all. You're all just doing your best and the new World Trade Center is extraordinarily safe.

I would describe one World Trade Center as the safest building in the world and perhaps the most paranoid building in the world. We'll get into that. But you're providing cover, really, because one person asked me, like, let me get into dangerous, Harry, because now I'm starting,

my own conspiracy theory, which I cannot prove, and it's only a suggestion. So we're getting into that dangerous territory. Is it like the Port Authority that's funding all these conspiracy theorists so that you look at all these theories, like bombs, direct energy weapons and everything, that you never stop and look and say, wow, the Port Authority was really an irresponsible institution in 1968. That is far more plausible than a direct energy weapon. So my stance on direct energy weapon

Uh, nope, I don't believe it at all. What about Building 7? This is a thing that's brought up all the time. It was probably the first thing I ever saw, like when I was just a, you know, teenager on YouTube seeing, you know, crazy conspiracy videos. Uh, you know, and there was even a, you know, media campaign, you know, running like across the city, like, you know, ask about Building 7. Can you explain what Building 7 is and why this conspiracy exists?

Okay, so Building 7 was the last of the, the old World Trade Center buildings to be able. It's also the first of the new World Trade Center buildings to be built. The only instance in which a building was built on the site of his predecessor, the reason for that is Larry Silverstein, and I'm sure we're going to get into him in a little bit. Uh, no disrespect, Larry. Um, so building seven is completed 1989. Um, and it's fun, as you look at old photos of the Twin Towers, I look for things like the Mera, the Vista Hotel, which later became the Marriott, uh, the World Financial Center in Tower 7. And And like whether or not they're there usually tells me what year the photograph was taken.

If the rooftop of the World Financial Center is still copper, if it's turned green, just the things to look at as you look at old photos of this. So Tower 7 is basically it's the North Tower, which has the antenna on top. Tower 6, which is seven stories tall. And then Tower 7, which I'm going to call it 45 stories tall, something like that. So it was the third tallest of all of them. Tower 7, when being built, has to accommodate a consolidated Edison, Con Edison power station underneath. There's a Con Edison power station down there, and it has to be built to accommodate that. And I think the first seven floors have to be dedicated to Con Edison as a part of this

contract, because you can't get rid of a Con Edison power station. You need that. Another thing is, and so, like, rather than, like, being built like this, it's kind of, like, built more like this. I'm trying to really put this in layman. terms. And I am not an architect. I am not an engineer. I'm telling you what I know from what I've read, but I'm just trying to put it in simplest terms possible. It's also accommodating a parking ramp that goes into the old World Trade Center garage. And so it's really, really built even more poorly than the Twin Towers in a way. Building twice its size fell down on top of it. Again, it is mostly going straight down, but the North Tower, it kind of comes down more like a banana

in a way. As a survivor of Sterewell B. described it, that's actually how they survived on Starewell B. Why, because it looks like it's going perfectly down. It's actually going a little bit more like this, if I made that clear, close to perfectly straight down. And Tower 7 gets ripped open on its south side. Now, here's the deal. Everyone has been evacuated from Tower 7. This was a verified a few minutes before the North Tower collapsed. So none of the firemen give a shit about Tower 7. It has a raging inferno inside of it, which I believe CBS was the one network that got into Ground Zero after the towers collapsed before Tower 7 collapsed, either CBS or NBC. Breathtaking footage, it looks like you're on a different planet the way it looks in that

time frame. And you can see the fire is burning heavily. It is a raging inferno happening inside of there, which is being completely ignored by the FDNY, because the only thing they care about is all of their friends who are trapped amongst the rubble. Now, you say they have all these men, at least spray a hose on it. What hose? All of the standpipes are destroyed in lower Manhattan. As far as the FDNY is concerned, what's another building? After all the destruction, all they care about is their friends, and it's just not possible. There's nothing, no resources. They're waiting for boats to arrive in the harbor. They're waiting for the dust to clear before they can even do anything.

They didn't care about Tower 7. So it's not the only building. It was the only steel frame high rise to collapse from a fire. Not anymore. These two or three others have actually collapsed in the past eight years or so. So it has a huge, huge opening. It has a huge inferno going on inside. This claim that Building 7 was never hit or it was undamaged.

Is not true. and here's why you think it was undamaged is because you're always looking at the footage of Tower 7 collapsing from the north, looking at the north side of the building. All the damage is on the south side of the building. Now why is there no video footage? Because Rudy Giuliani evacuated everyone out of Lower Manhattan

at 11 a.m. I believe it was somebody in the FTNY did get a photograph. I'm going to give you that photograph and I want that on screen right now. It's not a video, it's a photograph of Tower 7 visibly on fire. You should be seeing it right now. black smoke coming out of it.

That's something that was ignored for eight hours. It's not the only steel high rise to collapse from a fire. It's the only steel high rise to be ignored for eight hours and then collapse from a fire. Chief of the FDNY, some high-ranking official, made the call to evacuate Lower Manhattan

two hours before Tower 7 came down because they knew it was coming down. So first of all, if you're going to give me this theory that Tower 7 had explosives inside of it, you now have to work into your theory that this guy is in on it. And I don't even know if he would have been the guy making that call. I feel like Peter Gansy Jr., the head of the FDNY, might have been the one making that call, but he can't because he died.

He died when the North Tower collapsed. He stayed at the foot of the south side of the North Tower, calling for all men to evacuate. Last recorded words, I will not leave my men behind. And so they have to get this other guy in on it, and they knew to get this guy in on it, knowing that Peter Gansy Jr. would die. How do you even, how do you even like just organize something like that? Tower 7 was horribly damaged. And this photograph that you're looking at should make that clear. Tower 7 was also ignored for eight hours, and Tower 7 was poorly designed.

And it ultimately did collapse basically at free fall speed. Yeah, that one collapsed even more quickly. And the other towers, they kind of, the collapse kind of starts up top, bang, bang, bang. Tower 7 seems to collapse at its footprint. So the top falls down into the base. it collapses quite different than the Twin Towers. And is there a reason? Is it because it's damaged mostly on one side and kind of, you know, bored out, so to speak?

Well, they all, yeah, I would say that one because the other towers is their hit. They are damaged on the other sides. One side has the damage more clearly where the airplane entered, but the damage comes out to all four sides. Tower 7 didn't really have any damage on its northern side, so that's one contributing factor. And certain video angles will show you. not going straight down. It's kind of sliding a little bit. Yeah, it's kind of sliding a little bit. Interesting. Now, another thing that fuels the theory is this infamous pullet phone call. So that's Larry Silverstein. And who is he and why is he involved in this conversation at all?

What's up, people? We're going to take a break really quick because I got to tell you about an amazing sponsor. The sponsor needs no introduction. You've seen the ads. You've heard us talk about it a million times. And I bet there's a big part of you, pun intended, that wants it tried. What am I talking about? talking about blue chew. That's right. This is not your grandpa's blue pill. This is the one, the OG chewable tablet for better lovemaking. That's right. Bluechu is a unique online service that delivers the same active ingredients you'd find in like Viagra, Seattleis, all this stuff, but at a fraction of the cost in a chewable form. That's right. This process is super simple. You go online, put in your information in bluechew.com will consult with one of their licensed

medical providers, and once you're approved, you will receive your prescription in just a few days. Easy, send straight to your door. The best part, It's all done online. No doctor's office, no awkward combos, no waiting in line of the pharmacy. This is bluechew.com. They always say first impressions are important, but what about lasting impressions? Mm-hmm. You know what I'm talking about. You go out, you meet someone, and you tell them, hey, I'm going to take a blue chew tablet. And I'm going to rock your world. Bluechu wants the entire country rock hard. They told me, that's the mission. They're not going to stop until every man is bricked up, like a brick house. You know what I'm talking about? Until every tent is pitched, till every rod is raised.

in this great beautiful land known as USA. Discover your options at blotchew.com. And actually, if you're listening to this, I have a special deal for you. For all the listeners of this program, you can try Bluetooth for free. That's right. If use a promo code Gagnon, that's Gagg, N-O-N,

which is a funny promo code for a product called Blue Chew. Use the promo code Gagnon at checkout. Just pay $5 in shipping. That's like a cup of coffee. It's nothing. That's bluechoo.com with the promo code Gagnon, G-G-N-O-N-N and receive your first month for free. That's right.

Visit bluetchoo.com for more details and important safety information And thank you so much to Blu Chu for sponsoring this amazing broadcast. Let's get back to the show. Larry Silverstein always owned Tower 7, and it was always his ambition to purchase the entire World Trade Center, which he successfully did in the month of June or July of 2001. In August of 2001, he purchased a, what's the word, an insurance package that covered terrorist attacks. Stop.

It's not what you think. You are obligated by law to buy insurance. You can't have a car without car insurance. can have the World Trade Center without building insurance. Every insurance company threw in terrorism insurance back then. The Twin Towers recovered from terrorism insurance when they were attacked in 1993, and they received every penny from the payout. So people are pointing to this whole thing about him buying terrorism insurance.

It's like, well, that was just thrown in there. That was a part of every insurance package. Now, that's interesting. So it is technically true, but the whole story is that it is a part of every insurance package. Yes. And he happened to get the insurance package at that time. So, again, if there's anything suspicious, the coincidence of him getting it in July of 2001, better area to start from if you're going to question things.

But again, the insurance package, he's obligated by law. And of course, it's going to include terrorism insurance. They all do because they just assumed it would never happen. Right. Now, if you have a need of a lawyer, make sure you hire his. They argued his building was not attacked once. It was attacked twice. Oh, wow.

And he got two insurance payouts, $4.8 billion. Wow. Larry Silverstein argued he was paying money for a building that didn't exist, which was true. He's the only man to continue his lease from the old world trade center

to the new world trade center. I don't think anybody else did that. And that's why Building 7, the new Building 7, was built first and exactly where the old Tower 7 was, which is why Tower 7 was built first, I think 2006.

Because he had legal claims of the land and was able to move quickly because he didn't necessarily have to uphold the sentimental and sort of like memorial value of building a new structure. Is that fair to say? Well, and also because they're still working out what the memorial is going to be. But Tower 7 was always kind of outside of the trade center. And so this could be worked on without really affecting whatever their plans were at the time for the memorial. Interesting.

Now, this infamous moment where he says, pull it, this has been the, you know, debate of conspiracy theories for some time. Can you explain,

you know, what is the conspiracy and then what your take on it is? Well, they're saying, they're saying that he said, pull it, like, this man is giving the instruction

to the FDNY. Yeah, blow up my building now, because I have power over the FDNY, and I can get you to do that. So he's on the phone with the FDNY. Yes.

And they're describing the damage. And he says, he says, to his own words, which he relays this information in an interview years later. Now, I guess, like, it's also kind of strange because I guess that the actual answer would be that he's saying, hey, FDNY, get out of there, don't try to save the building. Not his call to make. That's the FDNY's call to make.

He needs, he should take some time to explain that a little bit more. I don't think he admitted to being the cause of Tower Seven's collapse. I think he's just a little bit more intelligent than that. Again, assuming there's any guilt there, which he certainly benefited after the fact, certainly benefited a lot. He makes the claim that his wife reminded him of a dermatologist appointment on the morning of 9-11, and that's why he wasn't at Windows on the World, which he bragged at another instance that that's where he started every day,

at Windows on the World, and that's why he didn't go to his meeting. it sounds like, and also his daughter and his son also did not show up for work on time, which saved their lives. Here's the deal. Probably close to like 20,000 people didn't show up on time because of Michael Jackson's performance at Madison Square Garden, a New York Giants game that went late the night before, just causing people to stay up late. The primary day, people going to vote first, first or second day of school, people wanting to drive their children to school. on that day. And just, yeah, if the attack had happened one hour later, it could have been far, far more devastating.

So it sounds far-fetched his whole story about, oh, a dermatologist appointment. But I understand if he had to lie to us, I mean, wouldn't you just go with the whole I was going in to vote? Wouldn't you just make sure that everybody saw you at a polling booth that day? wouldn't that be the more sensible thing to do? So, sounds far-fetched, but, like, if you wanted to lie,

he could have come up with a much more believable lie. It's entirely possible that this coincidence saved his life. Yeah. Larry Silverstein also was required to remove a lot of the asbestos from his buildings, which he ultimately never had to do because the towers collapsed. It's a lot of that asbestos that killed a lot of good men.

You know, I know one guy who's such. suffered for years of 9-11 lung disease and he actually, he, he, he was a police officer and he shot himself because of the pain that he was in. And it's, you know, that toxic material, him being at that cleanup zone, breathing that in is what did this to him. And, you know, Larry Silverstein, he gets all this money. And he really gets off from the perspective of the average Joe, maybe he sees it differently. He really gets off Scott-free. He benefited probably more than anybody else. I understand why there's like a temptation to hate him, to make a villain out of him. And like, I even feel it sometimes. Uh, because like, that's just, that's just bullshit.

And all these people suffer. And that there's, there's no helping them. The government, they give them money, they handle it. But there's no cure for 9-11 lung disease. And so they suffer and they die and this guy's just sitting on fat stacks. I get it. I get it. But you do

you do have to find a way to come to a logical conclusion when circumstances are pushing you towards an emotional conclusion which is fuck that billionaire. You know, I get it. I get it.

But it just it doesn't fully add up with Building 7 pull it I just don't think it means what people think it means yeah do you know if he donated any money to the firefighter relief effort

I assume he has given money I actually don't know I have never looked into that I assume that he did and the firefighters I know that John Stewart infamously is you know advocated on their behalf what was the relief effort to getting them compensation or medical help? At first it was to deny it.

At first it was to deny it. It took a while to actually determine that 9-11 lung disease was a thing. The total number of people who died on September 11th is 2,963 people plus 10 unborn children. That's who was killed that day. 11 people died of their injuries between September 15th and January 1st, 2002.

That's it for people who, died of injuries immediately afterwards. There are also three people listed at the 9-11 Memorial who died of 9-11 lung disease in 2002, 2008, and 2010. They are the only three people who will ever be listed there who died of 9-11 lung disease because they are the only three people who were determined to have died of 9-11 lung disease

before the memorial was made whose family members wanted their names to be listed there and the memorial does not have space for more names to be added later. So they will always be the only three. Now, just go over the casualties, is 2,963 plus 11 plus 3 is 2,900 is 2,97 plus 10 unborn children. If you get the number 2,996, that includes the terrorists whose names are not included at the memorial.

And there are also six more people and a seventh unborn child from 1993 who are listed at the memorial. That's just all the numbers right there to break it down for you. So that's three people who died of 9-11 lung disease. and the woman who died in 2002, there was a debate for a little while. Like, what killed her? And she was somebody who worked near the World Trade Center. I did an Instagram reel on her and several other people.

I feel bad that I'm blanking on the name right now, but I'm sure we'll get that on screen. It took a little while to determine that it was even a thing. And there was a time period where it was denied. and then eventually it was accepted and people start to get their compensation. As John Stewart argues for them to continue getting compensation, if you are looking for an opinion

on whether John Stewart is doing a good thing or a bad thing, please defer to the opinions of first responders. They love him. He's doing a fantastic thing. To add a little bit more context, it comes up in a bill. They have to renew it every couple of years, and he's, you know, making the argument to renew it.

And he gives this very, very emotional speech. And then you hear the next day, you know, one day after, two days after John Stewart gave this speech, you know, one of a first responder died of 9-11 lung disease. It's somebody who died, they're getting their coverage. And it has to be renewed. And I assume no politician wants to take the toxic choice of opposing that. It's likely going to get renewed.

And he's acting as a spokesman to make sure that that gets renewed. because you don't just assume it's going to happen. You fight to make sure it happens. This is, you know, he's the union. He's the union boss for first responders in a way. And they are dying in spite of their coverage. They're not dying like, oh, the coverage wasn't renewed and this guy died because he didn't get his guy.

No, he's getting his coverage. John Stewart fights to make sure that it gets renewed and he's fighting a good fight. He's a good man doing a good thing. Thank you, John Stewart. I just wanted to add a little bit more, clarity to what's going on there, they're dying in spite of their coverage.

There is no cure for 9-11 lung disease. And it's just awful. It's bullshit. Could you estimate how many people have, you know, been afflicted by 9-11 lung disease on like a generous, a generous estimation? The number of people, the number of first responders who have died of 9-11 lung disease

is greater than the number of people. people who died on that day at this point. I believe the total, there's, I believe the total number of casualties, including 9-11 lung disease, has surpassed 4,000 at this point. There are signs that are still up. If you were south of Canal Street on September 11th, you may be entitled to compensation. And so it's a thing, you know, if you can prove that you were south of Canal Street and get a little sick or something, you can see about getting compensation.

from it. So some claims could potentially be due, I say this with all respect, you know, potentially some claims can be dubious. It's always something that has to be investigated. Case in point, there is a memorial at the 9-11 memorial dedicated to those who have died because of 9-11 after 9-11. It is the 9-11 memorial glade, and it is nameless. It's nameless for a good reason because you don't want to go through that debate of should my loved one be on here? or not. You don't want to go through this process of working with the city government, of working with the agencies that run the memorial.

It's there, and if you believe your loved one died because of 9-11, it's there for you in that regard. My buddy, Douglas Greenwood, guy who founded Bleaker Street Pizza, by the way, um,

he would be a name that like a family would have to fight to have on there, um, because of the nature of how he died. And you don't, I don't wish that, like, fight on anybody as you as you're grieving as your mourning to also do that. And so it's, it's a hard thing to say. Everything's really up for debate, but they are receiving their coverage. I support them continuing to get their coverage for ever.

And I hope that maybe this whole thing that it can't be cured changes one day. But it's a very sad situation. They're dying in spite of their coverage. Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's powerful. I mean, thank God for John Stewart. Yeah. What a legend. To button up the Building 7 conversation, another element that fuels that conspiracy fire is the agencies that were in the building. CIA in Secret Service, amongst others. Certainly a lot of important documents were destroyed that day. did the CIA thankfully from their perspective

have any documents destroyed well they're not going to tell us that they'll never have to tell us that what was destroyed that day the things that we do know about a lot of blueprints that the Port Authority was working on there was some there was like a bridge or something

that had to be that had to be like redesigned retroactively because the blueprints were destroyed and they didn't know how to complete this piece of architecture And so they had to like disassemble parts of it like wait, how exactly are we doing this? Another thing I want to be careful about the Helen Keller

Museum had there, either the whole museum or their archives were inside of their All of the evidence that Helen Keller existed was destroyed. Wow. Including like authentic newspaper articles about that one time she flew an airplane. Helen Keller flew an airplane. I'm not getting into any Helen Keller conspiracy theories. My grandmother... Where did she fly this airplane?

No, no, that's not your... Be careful. Be careful. You'll look that up on your own that Helen Keller flew an airplane, okay? Was it on September? Yeah, oh my God. I'm just at... You brought it up, dude. I did bring it...

I didn't even make that connection that you could say something like that. But my grandmother had heart murmurs. growing up and she was told she could never have children. Well, she had five children and many, many grandchildren and great-grandchildren. She actually died about a year and a month ago, lived at the right age of 93. And she had to go to a school for kids with, you know, disabilities of some sort over in Jersey City. school named after a governor or mayor,

a governor of New Jersey or a mayor of Jersey City, good friends of FDR, and she talks to me about the time that FDR visited her school. You know, she remembers that FDR having disabilities came to visit, and it was named after a Democrat politician who was friends with FDR, so of course he visited it. She also talks about when Helen Keller visited her school. And to quote my grandmother,

when she talked, it was like she was singing. Wow. That's what my grandmother recounted to me. She talked, it was like she sang. And so I am not doubting the existence of Helen Keller, but anything you would use to prove that Helen Keller existed, you know, birth certificate, social security numbers, all that stuff, that was destroyed. Um, so documents were destroyed that day. CIA and Secret service did they, Secret service lost a man that day who, uh, one of their secret service agents want to help out. And he is amongst the first responders to die that day, listed with the first responders, as I understand it.

And so did they want to destroy their evidence? I mean, I think the CIA can destroy their evidence whenever they want to. I mean, we find that the CIA has admitted to involvement in JFK's assassination very recently with declassified documents. There's stuff that they've tried to keep classified. I mean, and they kept that stuff secret for long enough, they get away with what they want to get away with. So I just don't think that an event like September 11th is necessary

to destroy evidence. Wow. Now, can we shift to the Pentagon? We can. We're exiting my expertise, but let's talk about it. So obviously another, you know, the other building, you know, the only other building that was struck on that day. Obviously, a ton of, you know, conspiracy involving that.

One of the things that people always point out is that there's no real footage except for a gas station that they've recorded that. Two. They're often confused with one another. There's one Pentagon security camera, one gas station, and there's at least one other camera angle that the FBI has confirmed that the FBI or CIA has it classified. I would love to see that released in for you. I think they should just release it. I get it. The Pentagon's the most secure area in the world.

you don't want to give away any secrets by showing security camera footage. But I also assume that you've updated the security since 9-11, and I think people deserve answers. It is a fish-eye lens, which distorts it. You can make out some of the coloring of the airline's logo on the airplane. It's one frame per second. It's like stop motion, so it's really not high-quality footage. and also another thing people don't realize is that that western wall of the Pentagon also collapses on 9-11.

And so when you're looking at the footage or photographs of it taken after, you know, the fire was put out and everything, of course, you're not going to see the shape of the airplane because it's further collapsed from the damage. Another thing is that it does strike over several telephone poles, telephone wires, whatnot. So the wings are heavily damaged as they're entering the building pieces of the airplane are absolutely visible all over the place. and, you know, remains from all 100 and, I believe, 115 people died at the Pentagon with only one of them dying of their injuries at a later date. And I think, 64 people died in Flight 77, which hit the Pentagon, including the terrorists. and so all of their remains were found. I think there's only one person from the Pentagon in which no remains were ever found. I can't comment too much on that.

I'm not even certain. And that might even be like confusion in my research that one person whose remains weren't found is the one person who died in the hospital later. I don't want to get too far into that. But all of the remains of these people were found. You know, you're the government. You want to do all these terrorist attacks. and so you fly an airplane into the Tower 1, you fly an airplane into Tower 2,

and then you launch a missile at the Pentagon, why not fly an airplane into it? Like, you know, if you're going to go down that road of a conspiracy, like why even take the risk of switching that one up? The Pentagon was recovered. It wasn't even destroyed, so it's not even like, oh, we need to use a missile to make sure we destroy it.

Well, that obviously didn't work. I understand there are things to question. I absolutely believe that people need to be responsible and have more transparency, release more video footage. If whatever else is out there, I think they should. I understand why people question it. But again, assuming there is a conspiracy, why not fly an airplane into it?

What is the benefit of using a missile? As far as the difficulty of hitting the Pentagon, it is visible in the air. It's quite large. Not as visible as the Twin Towers. Muhammad Atah did take a visit to the Twin Towers with a GPS locator, and he got the exact coordinates of where the Twin Towers are. So I don't recall if any terrorist did this with the Pentagon. However, it'd be even easier to do that at the Pentagon.

You don't even have to buy a ticket. You can just walk up to that area of the building. So having the exact coordinates of where to crash at. Interesting. Something happens aboard flight 77. They're like not on track and they have to turn the whole thing around and then hit the building again. So just the fact that they knew how to make that calculation indicates they might have had the exact coordinates. People point to that moment on that turn that they had lost connection or something to that effect.

Are you familiar with that? Yeah. And I don't know what to tell you with that one. I don't know too much about that one. They lose connection at that point, and I don't know, this is when the terrorist parachute out and the robot takes over. Like, the remains of all five of these terrorists were found at the Pentagon site. Yeah, it is interesting to note that the terrorists that was the main pilot of that flight that flew into the Pentagon, Honi Hanjor, who my friend Rod happened to meet six months before.

he pointed out that he was the only one of the hijackers that had a commercial pilot's license, I believe. I believe he went to Saudi Arabia at one point trying to become a pilot with one of the airlines and was rejected and then was somehow wrapped up into this ploy. I don't know all the details, but that descent and that actual, you know, the impact is much more difficult on that one specifically. And so I wonder if he was assigned that role because of his flight experience. That would make sense. That would certainly make sense. I've seen some other people suggest that it's not as difficult as it sounds. And there is one simulation online that I think actually shows what controls he had to do to hit the Pentagon.

Now, I'm going to take the risk of looking silly. you know, you and I aren't as good at basketball as LeBron James. We know for a fact that every time he scores a point, he's either doing this or, you know, this. We know that's what he's doing, but somehow when you and I do it, it doesn't go as good as how LeBron James does it. The controls apparently look not nearly as complex as possible, but again, I don't understand flying an airplane. Some more theories I wanted to bring up. There's eyewitnesses and people immediately after the events that describe explosions and things like that. Sure.

I'm curious what your take on that is. Well, there are two explosions because the building is hit and then the maintenance elevators go all the way down. Fireball travels all the way down the maintenance elevators and blows up in the boiler room. So there is a second explosion. It's the fireball traveling down blowing up in the boiler room. I think this is most clear. An FBI informant was wearing a wire at the Mermaid Cafe at the Marriott Hotel. on September 11th and has an audio recording.

There are essentially six recordings of Flight 11's impact into the North Tower. The only one that's really worth watching is the Noddap Brothers footage. Two of them are audio recordings. One of them is Wolfgang Stahl's video stills taken from Brooklyn. Another one is Pavel Hava, who accidentally filmed the North Tower being hit, very low resolution from the FDR Highway, I believe. and then the last one is one of the television networks actually had a camera on the ground in City Hall Park and they got the fireball and they got the audio of the explosion and they kind of

get the camera up there as the fireball is going up. This camera has a little bump as the airplane is impacted and then like it's a second later that you actually hear the explosion. And so that's all the footage. This FBI, this FBI recording and One Liberty Plaza was recording a meeting. These audios, you can kind of hear the second explosion in there. So that's your whole thing on explosion. Other things, FDNY, Fireman being interviewed after the fact, that was an explosion. I know what an explosion is. These men are covered in dust. They've just escaped from the Twin Towers. Please understand, as Firemen would report, if you were watching at home on the news, you had a better perspective than they did. They are on the

ground. They're not even, which floor is it? You know, they're not going to stand out there and count. A lot of them get through the entire events of 9-11 without knowing that airplanes were involved. You know, they don't see the airplane. It's not there, it's not there, they're not investigators, they're getting up there to save people. Was it a helicopter? Was it a small airplane? Was it a bomb? They're getting up there to save people. Some of them know it was an airplane because they saw it or because they took the time to ask and they were told. Other people actually go through the entire 102 minutes, not knowing that it was an airplane. And that's verified. There's five fires that said, yeah, I had no idea.

Oh, yeah. I even spoke to one who came on one of my tours. He's like, yeah, I thought it was a helicopter. Yeah, because that's not really their concern. You know, they're in a tunnel. They see the building on fire. They know they have to go over there. They're in a tunnel getting over there. Then the South Tower is hit. They just, they're not, like, your mind doesn't just go to airplane. You're, you're in rescue mode. It's not, that's not your job. That's for the investigators. You're a rescue worker. So there are people who didn't know was an airplane the entire time And some people who are on the other side of the South Tower

The South Tower gets hit There's an explosion They think a bomb just went off They didn't see the airplane They're on the other side of the building There are explosive noises happening amongst the rubble And some people thought this was a ground attack happening

Several things that happen There are NYPD officers Who shot out windows to get people out of buildings So they could run or to get people Inside of buildings for cover Yes There are cars that are pancakes and explode amongst the fire.

There's video footage of one police officer talking on a pay phone and you just hear an explosion go off and he doesn't need to cop. He just doesn't even react to it. That is likely a car that was pancakeed in the fire. We know from the movie World Trade Center, the two firemen that were rescued, there was a third one with them who actually fired off his gun to alert people to where they were, hoping that people would hear the noise. And then also when the North Tower came down,

And then also at another point, I think the heat or something caused his gun to go off again. And so those are guns. So firearms going off, cars exploding these additional explosions. Anybody looking at the Twin Towers as they fall down, it's like what's the difference between a building collapse and an explosion when you're running for your life? So they're going to call it an explosion. That's the first thing you're not going to intellectualize it. you haven't like read the investigations. You're going to call it an explosion.

So there's numerous explanations for numerous things that people call explosions. Wow. So I think that's, see, this is the kind of thing that I think is important, that I think people should be open and, you know, yeah, perceptive to the idea like, yes, there were explosions on the day. There were many explosions. Yes. Were they bombs?

Probably not. Almost certainly not. Were there things that sounded like bombs, like cars? And boiler rooms? Absolutely. Guns, yeah. And I think that's reasonable, and I think that by trying to suppress that information or trying to go with some type of more linear, simple narrative, a lot of things get lost, and

then more and more questions sort of, you know, fester. And I think by being up front, I being like, yeah, there were other explosions. These people were telling the truth. They said, I heard explosions. And they absolutely did. They're not, they're not lie. I'm so glad you brought that up. I forgot to mention that.

They are not lying to you. they are explaining what they just experienced in an extreme emotional moment with heightened tension after having just saw it they're describing it from an emotional perspective what they just saw and yeah

now let me tell you something else that is true on September 10th Donald Rumsfeld said that there was $2.3 trillion that were missing from the fiscal budget I guess or something to that effect can you explain what that is and what the conspiracy surrounding this is?

And then can you explain what your theory is? The conspiracy is that they announced it knowing what was going to happen. This is the conspiracy. They announced it knowing what would happen the next day thinking, great, we've announced it, we've done our job. And now everybody will forget about it. All right. Well, they, that was my warrior impression. I got it.

I clocked it. Yeah. It wasn't the first time it was announced. it was actually mentioned, I think, in March of that year. So he was just re-referencing something that had already been announced to the public. It wasn't the first time it was being mentioned. That's the most important thing that just collapses the whole story about this. The next thing you have to realize, dude, you don't need September 11th to get away.

If you're the government, you don't need September 11th to get away with wasting our money. They do this all the time. It's not like it's not the first of the last time that this money has been displaced. they they this happens there are multiple other instances of the of our agencies misplacing money and you know what does the public talk about they they they talk about Kim Kardashian's rear hand or something like that they they we talk about other stuff um you don't need September 11th to distract us from all of the money that the government is wasting yeah yeah I think that's that's reasonable so he had announced it multiple times he had said this

At least once before. Which, I mean, that should be, you know, cause for concern regardless of the events of September 11th. Like, yeah, where the hell is this money? Yeah. And where is it? Because we still don't know. And people claim that the records relating to the money was in an area that was impacted? No, it's false.

The people that were investigating it were actually not at the Pentagon. They were at a different building in a different state. So just absolutely not true at all. That's not the part of the building that was hit. they were investigating it in a different state. And then I've read that the cost of war that has subsequently followed the events cost like you know, 2.1 trillion or something to that effect. Have you ever heard this before?

I don't know the figures on what the 20-year war in Afghanistan cost. I know a lot of rich men got richer and a lot of Americans like you and I and everybody listening are further in debt because of it. I won't comment on the actual number, but I imagine it's even higher than that. Is it true that a lot of the steel that was recovered was sold? Yeah. What is that about?

What are you going to do with it? You're going to keep it all in storage forever? It's the size of two buildings. You know, we're very sentimental people, us Americans. We're extremely sentimental. And we hold on to all of the Tridens, those pieces at the bottom. We're not going to hold on to an entire building's worth of steel.

and it was filling up fresh kills. Fresh kills is like a Dutch name meaning body of water. That is a place in Staten Island where all of the, it's not as morbid as it sounds. It's a place where all of the steel was held. I know it sounds bad, but it's a Dutch name. And they sold the steel to China? Yeah, China.

China was willing to buy it to make their made-in-China products that they sell back to us. But it was sold relatively cheap to China. And I get it. I get it why it offends people. I also, I would say to the people that offends, you know, what is the government to do with all of us? So they're just going to keep every single piece of steel from the building.

Perhaps more of it could have been immortalized, you know, maybe a piece of steel could have been given to every town in America. That might have done it. And just every town in America has their own memorial to 9-11. Not every town wants it. Not every town feels the connection. Not every person in America feels the connection that I do. You know, the closer you were to the Twin Towers,

in some ways, the more it affected you. and that, of course, there are people all over the globe who lost a person that day who will feel a connection to it, but not every person wants to have a piece of the Twin Towers. So, I would, you know, if you're really going to tell me that every

single piece had sentimental value and had to be preserved in some way, shape, or form, I'd say who, what, and where. It's not going to fit in the museum. It's not going to fit in the 9-11 museum. No, it doesn't offend me, but it is an interesting ripple. It does make you think, like, oh, wow, that's an interesting question. Like, what happened to all the

all the rubble and all the materials. And the idea that it gets sold to another country is just like, huh, that's a bizarre, that's a bizarre ripple to this whole thing. Yeah. It's, uh,

it's, it's, it's, I don't know what to tell you about it. I get how people feel, but also I, I, I ask them,

like, what are we to do with it? We're just going to keep it in storage forever. Um, that there are places that have like pieces of the north tower out front of their buildings. And like, that's something you can do,

like, oh, here's a piece of steel. And it's just this rusted, mangled piece of steel. And some places it feels appropriate, other places, like you just have this rusted piece of steel out front. And a little placard that says, you know, it's a piece of the North Tower. It's dedicated to those who died that day. And from one point of view, it could be very moving from another point of view.

It could also just, it's just like a rusted piece of steel. Are we going to, does every place get a piece of damaged steel? I get it. I get how people feel and the fact that it's sold to like China of all places but China's the place that would build it

because China has manufacturing we have far less manufacturing I would love to have seen that still at least go into American steel manufacturers but like we moved everything over to China now. Yeah.

Do you have any specific instances of media that was changed? You know like one piece of media that I saw that was really interesting was Lilo and Stitch. This is a, this is an infamous example

where basically in the original cut of Lilo and Stitch which they have the aliens and, you know, the main characters in an airplane flying through New York City, I believe. Some major city. I've seen the clip. I should, I misspoke. I don't believe it was a major city.

I believe it was a major city with skyscrapers. And they're sort of dodging the skyscrapers and flying through. And then they changed it later to like a spaceship or something to that effect, flying through mountains. Yeah. And I get it. You know, you're family friendly. You don't want to trigger people with that. Of course. I'm not asking you to make like a moral judgment on it. I'm just more curious if you have like other like bizarre examples of like, oh yeah, they had to fix this or change this little thing.

I know Spider-Man had the Twin Towers airbrushed out of some shots, but also a lot of shots where they're still visible. If you go back and watch the movie. And that was really the movie that New York needed after 9-11. Just the whole scene where all of New York starts fighting the Green Goblin. That's something else. That's something special. And it was made really all filmed before 9-11. But it was made really all filmed before 9-11. But it. it's really somehow like really defines the early post-9-11 film era. Zoolander had to be edited. I think they airbrushed out the Twin Towers. It was delayed by a week. Oh, wow. And but again, that's just the Twin Towers kind of being there.

I know there was one album that came out on September 2nd that had the Twin Towers blowing up. And just remember, there's lots of media of the Twin Towers being destroyed. There's also lots of media of the Statue of Liberty being destroyed, which has never been destroyed. and a lot of the media that comes out after the 1993 bombing, a little bit more understandable. It was clear the World Trade Center was a target. I mean, some of it's just crazy. I can't believe it.

Like that episode of the lone gunman, March of 2001, I think. And I watched that episode. I watched it and just determined this is a show I don't want to watch, but I watched that first episode. Before after. Before, when it first came out, I just remember it looks, it looks, It had something to do with the X-Files, which my brother watched, but I didn't. And I watched it.

And I was like, okay, I'm not going to watch the second episode. But first episode, you know, it's about a group of people trying to fly an airplane into the World Trade Center and they're able to avert it. And it's interesting. It implies that the government is trying to do this. Government officials are trying to do this. And they're going to blame it on dictators of countries we want to go to war with. Super Mario Brothers, the 1993 movie. bizarre ass movie.

It's just like when I watch it, I'm like, how did you take that cartoony video game and turn it into this? And Bob Hoskins and John Lugazamo are visibly drunk in many scenes. It's kind of, there's, and the soundtrack is also like really good. There's some incredible stuff in that movie.

There's a scene where the Twin Towers both get hit. By airplanes? No, by like a laser that damages them. and it's like it's even like unnecessary. It's almost like it was just forced into the movie. Movie comes out after the 1993 bombing. That scene, I'd have to look into that. That scene may have been filmed before.

There is, of course, lots of movies that show destruction of New York. You've got Independence Day, which destroys the Empire State Building. And there's one shot where you can see the Twin Towers were damaged, but they were not destroyed. They're still standing. there's a deep impact. And again, the Twin Towers actually still stand in that one. The movie AI. The Twin Towers are visible frozen underneath ice in the future.

And they haven't been destroyed in that one. It's just all of New York has been destroyed. They were very iconic buildings. And there's other stuff in New York City that gets destroyed in movies that hasn't been destroyed in real life. Where people are going with this is the suggestion of predictive programs. ramming and that the elites we'll call them are showing you these images to get you more prepared for it and so that you're more willing to accept the lie when it comes to you. And so you see a movie where an alien spaceship destroys the Empire State Building and

the Empire State Building goes boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom. and then when you see two buildings collapse on September 11th, your mind automatically says, we've been attacked by a foreign invasion as opposed to how does a building collapse that way? That's what people are getting at with predictive programming. And I believe that the usage of predictive programming can be real. I absolutely am open to the suggestion of it.

In the case of the Twin Towers, I mean, some people are blowing them up because other people blew them up in movies and they're just like, oh yeah, well, blow that up. That looks cool. You, I guess if you're going to go down this rabbit hole, you'd have to like really question like, who got that in the movie? Was that in the initial draft of the movie? Was there somebody on set who just said, no, no, no, I don't want you blowing up this building. Make it the Twin Towers. I wanted to be the Twitter. Was there a studio executive to continuously look at whose idea was that? That's the angle to investigate.

I'm open to the suggestion of predictive programming being a real thing that is done to us, to get us to behave a certain way. Because from the perspective of, you know, a lot of government officials, we are just cattle. And they are crowling us over here and they're trawling us over here. We've got to get you to vote for the Trump guy. We've got to get you to vote for the Kamala guy, you know, just. that's what they're doing and division, I think, is the most valuable commodity. Absolutely.

I would say that's just clearly the truth with government. So them coordinating with media to do predictive programming. Sometimes you just see the numbers 9-11. Have you noticed that, like, you always notice when your clock says 9-11, but if your clock said 9-12, you wouldn't register that as a memory. And you probably see 9-12 as often as you see 9-11. is the burning mine half frequency illusion

that once something is sort of primed in your mind you notice it everywhere like if you're going to buy a red car all of a sudden you notice red cars all over the road if you're going to name your child a name all of a sudden you notice that name everywhere where it shows up absolutely and I'm open to it

it certainly happened there's just there's video compilations that show it much better there's this one just breathtaking very well shot commercial I think for a Panasonic camera where they just have a kid on his own movie set

and it's the Twin Towers which are just super elongated like way long. It's clearly models and he's flying like a model airplane at the Twin Towers and it just has this like breathtaking sound to it

and everything that happened it's quite terrifying. The commercials on 9-11 there's like one guy who says 911, three numbers that may save your life like on the morning of 9-11 there is a commercial that aired on 9-11

of somebody throwing a paper airplane out the window in New York City and it flies through New York City and it never shows the Twin Towers but it just says New York, I'm coming. Yeah. Like there is some crazy radical stuff. I can tell you,

I don't have enough evidence to make a claim but the suggestion of the existence of predictive programming, I think that's something to look into and I'm telling you you have to find out the starting point is to like talk to these script writers and everything and like well whose idea was that was that you or was that a uh an executive producer stepped in and mandated that i know there's the simpsons episode where they hold up nine and eleven and you know you know comedy i've done stand-up comedy um there's just certain things where it's like you know what it's not funny if the punchline is 10 it's funnier if the number is nine nine is funnier than 10 and it's right next to the twin towers because they were going to feature the twin towers and they were going to feature the twin towers and they were going to feature the twin towers and that episode. And then there's also like a guy who mentions the Pentagon in that episode. Like Lisa becomes pen pals with a homeless guy. He's like, oh, send it to Jesus Christ at the

Pentagon. And, you know, I get it. I get it. It's coincidental in everything. Predictive programming could be real. I say, I say look into that and ask questions to the right people. That Simpsons writer just said on Twitter, he just said just to explain that. The number nine was funnier and the Twin Towers are what was featured in the episode. So it looks like 9-11. Yeah, that's definitely, that's definitely the case. Yeah. I want to ask you a couple more things, specifically, George Bush on September 11th was in Sarasota, Florida, I believe. Yeah. He was speaking to a class of second graders, first graders, something like that. Young elementary age kids. I actually knew a guy, I met a guy, I should rather say, that was one of the kids in the class.

I grew up in Orlando. Okay. Yeah. And he was just like, it was a weird day. It was very bizarre. I met him through a mutual friend that I'm much closer with. But, yeah, just a bizarre thing. I'm curious, like, as to what you know about his, you know, day, that day,

or sort of any details about George Bush on September 11th. Obviously, you know, connecting to the big meme, you know, George Bush did 9-11, da-da. Which, again, I don't think is true. But it is a meme and I think is worth addressing. So let's acknowledge, like, like, how. how this is and you know there's that moment where that guy leans in and says sir an airplane has struck the south tower america is under attack you see that look on his face so let's interpret what that face could be that face could be oh shit what do i do what do i do what do

what do i do that's one option he just doesn't know what to do option two uh it could be so that's what they were working on option three it could be oh my god they actually did it so I'm playing devil's advocate here. That's three opportunities, three possibilities for what you could be seeing. And at a bare minimum, this guy just doesn't look prepared to handle it. I said on another podcast recently, you know, don't keep reading the book. Like, you look at the kid, like, I understand you don't want to storm out of the room and create a panic. You just like kids

Unfortunately some important presidential work has come up that I need to take care of I want you all to know that I think that you are the finest and most brave young Americans That I've ever met and I'm going to make you a promise Sometime in the future I am coming back here to finish this book God bless you all and I do need to leave You step out and that takes about 30 seconds You know you're a president George Bush was a freaking cheerleader back in college like You can, you can, this is what you're good at.

Go do that. At 9.37 a.m., all of the kids have come into the auditorium for George Bush to deliver a speech, that this is a terrorist attack on our nation, that he would be flying to Washington, D.C., to deal with it. That's at 931, 937, the Pentagonist hit just for perspective. And George Bush, you know, it's all about how you want to interpret that expression on his face, which can go several different ways. if there is a conspiracy regarding people in government knowing this was going to happen, allowing it and encouraging it to happen, I would almost certainly put George Bush in the puppet category

who knows what to do after the fact, not somebody who knew what was going to happen before the fact. Yeah. That's interesting. Now, have you ever seen the footage, again, I personally just think it's a bizarre coincidence, but it is extremely bizarre, coincidence. They're sounding out words in the classroom. And the words that they say, and again, I think there's probably a little bit of like interpretation here,

but they basically say steel, steel, hit, kite, I believe. I believe those are the three words. I can, I'm actually, I'll look that up really quick. But yeah, have you seen that footage before? I have seen that, and the word is kite. It's not airplane. Right.

Yeah. And steel isn't like steal something or steal from a building. I think it was kite hit steel plane must, I believe. Yeah. Which, again, it's just a... It's one of these quinces that you're just like, this is just what we're in a simulation. It could be. We're in a simulation, too.

I well look simulation that's your claim it's possible that people use like symbolism and like work this stuff in I guess like if you're going to investigate that your starting point is talking to that teacher and being like how do you select these words is just the words

that turned up next in your workbook did you do you remember it's been quite a little bit of time she may have forgotten and you know God bless her she she also could not be around but that's that's the starting point if you're going to investigate this stuff don't just like you know point at this stuff

and be like aha proof Illuminati confirmed really really look into that that's the next thing is like hey what made you choose those words today that day and chances are she doesn't even remember anymore but it's a good starting point

I don't know can't make too much out of that yeah that's how I generally feel about most of these conspiracies that I love to look into them I love researching them I love learning about them but I go at them with the perspective of why is this bullshit. I go into it being like,

this is probably not the way it's presented. And then sometimes you hear something, you're like, oh no, that one is actually pretty weird. You know what I mean? But like I think going in with skepticism gives someone, you know, a much healthier framework for dealing with these things and not just falling down a rabbit hole

of accepting every alternative theory. You know, I think that's a, if you're someone that is drawn and interested, you know, alternative theories, go into it with a lot of skepticism. And go into it being like, okay, what is really at play here? Why is this bullshit? And I think you come out of it with a healthy perspective of saying kind of like,

oh, that's a pretty weird thing. Anyway, I'm going to go on and, you know, play with my kids this weekend and not be consumed with the... Live your life, please. Now, with that being said, this next one I'll bring up, big disclaimer. This is, again, not intent to malign any people group or... Oh, we're doing this. you know it's just an interesting ripple that again comes up on the day

that I think can you know potentially talk about governments around the world and not necessarily the citizens of a government or the people that they're in you know have the same religious affiliation with the government yeah but this urban moving urban movers systems incorporated urban movers systems incorporated movers M-O-S-N-S-N-S-N-E. and Corporated AD Mossad, right in the title. Bizarre. That's a weird coincidence.

One that you pointed out. It's a this one, this one's a little bit more specific. Can you explain what this? This is sometimes referred to as, again, which I put a big disclaimer here. This is what the title is as people refer to it, which is the dancing Israelis.

The dancing Israelis. Again, not every Israeli, not every Jew. Most of them, though. You know, it's the Christians of the United States are not responsible for 9-11. The Muslims of Saudi Arabia are not responsible for 9-11. The Jews of Israel are not responsible for 9-11. But ultimately, is not responsible. That's what you're supposed to say.

Yeah. No, I'll disclaimer, George Bush, clearly the best man who ever lived. You know, it's, what is the, what is the story here? Like, what is it, again, kind of explaining the conspiracy and then explain. explaining deeper what it was. A woman in Jersey City is watching them on fire with binoculars. She looks down at a parking lot below her and she sees four or five, she sees several Arab men dancing and celebrating.

And she sees all these Arab names, potentially Bin Laden being mentioned. She says this doesn't look right. So she calls 911. Jersey City Police Department arrives on the scene. And the first thing they say is we are not the problem. your problems are our problems. We are the Israelis. The Palestinians are your problem.

That's what they say. They're arrested, turned over to the FBI, detained for several months. During this time, they refused lie detector tests. Eventually they take the lie detector tests and they fail, and two of the men in question admit that they are Mossad agents, that they are linked to Mossad. They're deported back to Israel.

They appear on Israeli television. And they say, you know, we were not celebrating. Terrorism happens all the time over here. And we were just, like, glad that people could now see, you know, like, I get an understanding of what Israeli, Israel goes through on a daily basis. I still think you're a dick if you were smiling and laughing. Just to be clear.

I get it. People interpret things differently. But I'm not like, that's just not quite sliding with me that. claim. They also say we were there to document the event of the witnesses who are mentioned in the FOIA report. I believe one of them says I saw them setting up their cameras and celebrating as early as 8 a.m. Remember the North Tower is hit at 846 a.m. In addition, Freedom of Information Act declassified several photographs. They didn't give us the photographs. They gave us like a photocopy of a photocopy of the photographs. And

you can't see the state of the Twin Towers in these photographs, and you can't see their faces. Their faces are blocked out, and this is presumably to hide the fact that they are smiling. They are holding a lighter up in position so that the lighter is framed with the Twin Towers on fire, which just seems like an act of celebration or well, just like very, very, very, very inconsiderate to what's going on at that time.

I strongly recommend if you're going to go down this rabbit hole, to start with the ABC News article, which I believe ABC did the best job on this, where the five Israelis detained on September 11th spies. And they really did a great job of handling. Did it happen? Yes, what happened? Just want to say something to people out there. So this is like the starting point for a lot of people with Jews did 9-11, which is not very fair.

First person to die on 9-11 was Daniel M. Lewin, an American Israeli who joined the IDF, and he was sitting on Flight 11 with two terrorists in front of him, one terrorist in back of him, and for whatever reason, perhaps he understood Arabic. He tried to stop them. Started with the back of his throat

being slashed by a box cutter. And that's the first person to die on 9-11. So this whole thing that like no Jews died that day, shame that like two or three hundred of them didn't get the memo. And it's one other story that I really just, as I shared this story, I want to be responsible.

I want people to understand it. There's a guy named Ed B.A. Who, in the 80s, he's fooling around and he suffers an accident. He becomes paralyzed from the neck down, and he's a quadriplegic. Paralyzed from the neck down, but he'll never pursue his dream of being an athlete, but he can pursue his dream of working in finance at the World Trade Center. And with, I think, a 90-minute morning commute on the subway and a live-in nurse, he's able to commute to the North Tower.

And he's on a floor in the 20s. Now, when the North Town, and he's working there and he meets his best friend for life, a guy named Abraham Zalmanowitz, an Orthodox Jew. Ed B.A. is a Christian man. Abraham Zomanoitz is an Orthodox Jew. And as I tell people in New York City, once you're past the age of 40, you only have one friend. In New York City, you only have one friend. The only thing you do is you go to different restaurants and diners every evening and you talk about how New York City isn't the way that it used to be. I can't wait. And that's what they do.

And whenever Ed B.A. chooses the restaurant, he makes sure there's a kosher, venue for Abraham's Omanowitz. When Abraham's Omanowitz chooses the restaurant, he makes sure there's a wheelchair ramp for his buddy Ed. Now, September 11th comes, the North Tower is hit. They're in the 20s, so they're far below the impacts on. Everybody on their floor gets out. Well, guess what? The Port Authority didn't make their staircases wide enough to accommodate a quadriplegic's wheelchair. And remember, Oreo Palmer fixed the elevator in the South Tower. This is the North Tower. They're trapped in there, and Ed B.A. is not leaving his friend behind. 9.03 a.m., the South Tower gets hit, Abraham Zalmanowitz tells Ed B.A.'s live and nurse, get out of the building,

send for help, don't come back. She quickly leaves the building. 9.59 a.m., the South Tower collapses. Now, look, man, you want to convince, you know that if something like this happened, you'd stay with your friend when the North Tower is hit. You want to believe you're so heroic that when the South Tower gets hit, you would still stay with your friend. You know you'd run when that South Tower collapsed. You know you'd run. And yet his sister, is calling him on the phone. Abraham's Omanowitz's sister is calling him on the phone saying, get out of the building, and he says, I'll leave when the Messiah comes. Now, 1022 a.m., Billy Burke, the chief of Engine 23 or Engine 21, forgive me, is evacuating the building with his men,

and he sees Abraham Zalmanowitz and Ed B.A. And he tells his men to go ahead and he stays behind with them. He last calls out at 1027. I'm with a quadriplegic and his friend on the 22nd, 27th, Are there any men still coming down? 10.28 a.m., the North Tower collapses. Abraham Zalmanowitz and Edia, found in close proximity, there remains found in close proximity to one another. Billy Burke found far away,

and that's likely because he was standing in the stairwell, which would have been in the core, which collapsed a few seconds later, which would separate him from them. He was likely standing in the stairwell to intercept any men coming down. All three of them die that day. Billy Burke had a brother named Michael Burke,

who wanted to see the Koenig sphere, the rotating depiction of planet Earth, which represented peace through world trade. He loved it. He wanted it to see it return to the World Trade Center, but it doesn't fit with the new design. It would be out of place there, and so it's instead at Liberty Park next to the World Trade Center, and it used to represent peace through world trade, but I tell people when I show it to them, to me, this represents loyalty. Loyalty to one's friends, Abraham Zalmanowitz, loyalty to one's duty, Billy Burke. Nothing more to say on that. I mean, that was expertly said.

Baruch Hashem Jews, Salam, Muzis, peace be with you to my Christian brethren. Yeah. I got to really stand up for him because I get mistaken for a Jew every day of my life. What is your, what are you? Italian? Noto, it's a. I'm Sicilian, Italian, and Irish. But raised in New York, that makes you Jewish.

Yeah, there you go. Raised in New Jersey, which makes me even, which brings me closer to that. You grow up in New Jersey, the type of people you're going to meet that it's mostly people who are Irish, people who are Italian, people who are Jewish, people who are black.

And this is really something that defines the culture of New Jersey, because what do you get when you put those four cultures together? Loud and obnoxious, loud and obnoxious, loud and obnoxious, Loud and obnoxious, loud and obnoxious, but with rhythm. And that's New Jersey. That's great.

That's great. Okay. One of the last pieces that I want to ask about is kind of like things that occurred after. Obviously, we got involved in a foreign war. Iraqi freedom, many things. We'll leave that for a different discussion. But I am curious about Osama bin Laden. Yeah.

He's kind of the big boogeyman of the entire event. which as we know KSM was the larger mastermind behind the whole thing. So I'm curious for a couple of things. We can break them down, but I just want to preface one. Why did Bin Laden become like sort of the boogeyman for the event? Why is there so much sort of debate about his death and remains? And I guess the first place I want to start, why did he deny the involvement after 9-11?

If I'm not mistaken. After this attack of September 11th, he claims, you know, we had nothing to do with this. Al-Qaeda had no involvement. You know, it was either the 16th or the 17th that he made that claim. And to anybody watching, you know, take a moment. If you can put this video in the top corner and go to another page, I want you to Google. CNN, September 17th, Osama bin Laden denies. CNN, September 17th, 2001, Osama bin Laden denies.

And you will see it right on CNN's webpage that Osama bin Laden denied his involvement. on like September 16th or September 17th, let me reassure you, I have been detained at the United Arab Emirates for the past two years. They do not allow me to have contact with the outside world. It appears that this was carried out

by other people for personal reasons. This was carried out by other people for personal reasons. So he denied his involvement. Now, we can go down several... He was detained by the UAE? Well, he wasn't like detained. That I'm not too prepared to go into,

but he was in the United Arab Emirates. is his claim. And you can go down, starting here, you can go down several different routes. Osama bin Laden, a claim will later be said to come from him in which he says that he had no idea that Twin Towers would collapse.

He just thought the upper portion would fall off. It's possible. He wanted to send a message to America, and then when he saw the Twin Towers collapse, he just said, oh no, I've gone too far. they're going to be killing Muslims for 20 years. I blew it. I blew it.

Which is outside of our perception of bin Laden. You only really perceive of him as being like, like, just like, yes, murder, death, kill. Right. The attacks, as they're presented, we're never really about maximizing human casualties. It was real, and that was more closer to what KSM believed. Because bin Laden just thought crashing airplanes would be good enough. KSM was like flying him into buildings. Bin Laden, he wanted to hit us financially and he wanted to hit us militarily.

So the Pentagon, the Twin Towers, potentially the Capitol building, so it hit us politically as well. He wanted to do all this. And it's possible it's just like when he saw how out of hand things had become, he realized, oh, I regret doing this. That's outside of our perception of him. That's just suggestion number one. Suggestion number two is that he's really wasn't the guy behind it, that he's just this boogeyman that we've been cooked up. that we've cooked up. And you would have to, like, really explain a lot of stuff then, like, who were these terrorists

in contact with beforehand? This is what you have to explain if you're going down this theory. Were they in contact with Osama bin Laden or the actor portraying bin Laden or some combination of the two at some point in time? That's what you now have to explain. So that's like, that's the road you have to go down. You don't just make this claim. You really look into this stuff.

And that's what we're doing right here. We're entertaining possibilities. We're trying hard not to make claims, though. That's the roads you have to go down. Now, it was long reported before 9-11 that Osama bin Laden was suffering from kidney failure. December of 2001. And by the way, that CNN article uses Al Jazeera as its source. And it includes a statement from President Bush stating that he still believes that Osama bin Laden is the perpetrator.

That's why it's the most important one to look at because it includes what the source is, Al Jazeera, and a statement from the White House indicating that this is being treated as an authentic statement from Osama bin Laden. Now, in December of 2001, Al Jazeera reported that Osama bin Laden had died of kidney failure and it was buried in the mountains of Pakistan. It's also in early 2002 that we get Osama bin Laden's letter to America, which recently spread around on TikTok, and I believe people are using AI to reconstruct Osama bin Laden's voice in English to read this letter to you. And he talks about what he hates about America. It doesn't actually take credit for the attacks. So, and again, this is a letter

Could be from him It could be written by anyone It's consistent with what a radicalized Muslim would believe Which is that, you know, he hates us for our use of usery The usury-based debt system He also Says, how dare you judge us for our treatment of women when you sell your women? And this is of course in reference to pornography

Which from some people's perspective is just a terrible thing in this country. I leave it up to you to interpret it, but he judges us for that, and it's all kind of consistent with what you would expect. A Muslim to believe or certainly a radical Muslim to believe, he lists off everything he doesn't like about us. How dare you complain about 2,000 people die when hundreds of thousands of people die every year, because of your involvement in all of these wars? He accuses us of being Israel's mother, and that we are, that which allows Israel to get away with all of its more crimes, as Osama bin Laden puts it.

And this is his letter to America. He does not take credit for the attacks. Just before the election between John Kerry and George Bush, we finally get a video of him taking credit for the attacks. Osama bin Laden's physical appearance does change very often in the video footage. And it could be, you know, the guy cares about what he looks like. He's just, you know, getting rid of those grays. I've got to get to work on that. You see how many grays I got right now? It could be these work and other grades. It could be that they're switching up the actor that's playing him. Again, we're treating things as a possibility right now.

We're not making claims. At a certain point in time, we stopped getting video footage of Osama bin Laden talking to the camera. And instead, we just get video of people pointing a camera at a photograph of bin Laden with somebody off-screen talking who is presumably bin Laden. And then I think May 2nd, 2011, Osama bin Laden is killed by Seal Team 6, was it? And he's buried at sea. And after 10 years, you know, it's just we're just going to accept that. No real evidence of his body being given, which again, that disappointed me.

I can't make the claim. Did they kill bin Laden? Did they kill the actor playing bin Laden? Did they kill some double? did they kill anyone. I don't have enough evidence to make a claim. I have enough reason to be skeptical and question things. I have enough reason to be skeptical and question things, but I don't have enough evidence to make a claim. I just find it very disappointing that the government did not share any information with us. And if you want like any evidence that like, like how come, how come

these other politicians who are against Obama, you know, how come they're not saying I will declassify the photos of Osama bin Laden's body to give people closure and to end, you know, these conspiracies. Well, nobody's even running on that when that's something you could run on. It's just kind of like a little bit of a hint that these like these, this red team, blue team, they're like, they're like this, you know, it's just two wings of the same bird. But that's, that's, I won't go too deep into that. There's things to question about who bin Laden was and what exactly, like, like, if it was him or if it was someone

portraying him, I would say that without a doubt it was these 19 radical terrorists who flew these airplanes in, who were just very confused, mostly young men who were manipulated and given very bad ideas.

There are some suggestions that some of the muscle hijackers didn't know it was a suicide mission or that they didn't know it was a suicide mission until just before. Yeah, I'd heard that, that many of them didn't know necessarily what it was. Only really, really. the person flying the airplane and possibly the other person in the cockpit with them,

which is not clear how many people went into the cockpit either. Only the person really flying the plane would have to know under these circumstances. So that's, again, it's something else to question. But bin Laden, who exactly, how exactly was bin Laden involved? We have the mainstream stories, but we have things to question. He denied his involvement on 20, on the 17th. He was pronounced dead in December. And then there's a point in time where we just stopped seeing video footage of him. And his appearance does change. And they never showed us the photo of his body.

There are things to question in there. And I feel reasonable questioning these things. And I can't give you the counterpoint with this one. Like, no, no, no, let me clear this all up. I don't have that. I don't make a claim. But I admit that I am skeptical. Hmm.

I mean, yeah. that's kind of how I feel, to be honest. You see, you know, dumped in C. You're like, oh, that's pretty weird. But I don't know. I don't know what the policy for these types of special operations are. You know, it's one of those things you kind of scratch your head. You're like, oh, interesting.

But, again, I don't know if we'll ever know. Yeah. You know, the truth always comes out. But again, it's, you might be 90. So when you find out and you're saying there, I told you so. And the kids are questioning something that happened in 2004. 40 still and nobody cares anymore. So question things, be skeptical. Don't believe everything you see, but live your life. And live your life. Yeah, that's all I got for you. You basically answered

every question I've ever had about this fateful day, just about. I know there's much more we can go into. I'm curious, would you mind just kind of as we wrap up telling the people where they can find you, if they're interested in doing a tour with you, how they can do that. And then finally, if you could even just send us off on maybe an experience you've had in your tour, maybe something optimistic or someone that you spoke with, I'm sure you have everything from, you know, conspiracy theorists to survivors to, you know, loved ones, people who have lost loved ones. So, yeah, where can they find you? And can you end us with maybe a story or two? So I have my own tourism company now called cityshuffles. Cityshuffles.com.

please don't call it shitty suffles. Cityshuffles.com, C-I-T-Y-S-U-F-F-L-E-S dot com. And we're a new tour company, but we have some of the most experienced tour guides in New York City. Some, I hate to admit, or even more experienced than I am,

who work for me. I've been a tour guide for 10 years, and the goal at City Shuffles is to improve the tourism industry and also to improve and revitalize New York City. So you're here out and about, you were here throughout the pandemic, and you know, something's a little bit different right now. A lot of our energy, a lot of our good aggression, because we're aggressive, but it's a good thing, New Yorkers.

Our energy is still kind of, you know, we're very, we're very defeated. And I'm trying to build that back up again, show people there are a lot of exciting things. Now, here's what changed with tourism industry after the lockdown. a lot of introverts discovered that they were introverts. And they love it. Oh my God, I don't have to go outside. I hate going to the club. All my friends are telling me to go to the club?

No, I'm just going to stay home. And this is one of the reasons to reach out to us. You want to come visit New York City. Maybe you don't love these big crowds. You talk to me, contact me. We can help you plan a trip, get to all of the best stuff in New York City, and stuff that's a little bit quieter. You don't have to go to these raging clubs or these restaurants.

where you can't even hear the person talking across from you. I'll send you to a restaurant. There's this great one called Miscerizi over in NoHo that you have to check out. It has like this beautiful back room space. I'll take you guys on one of my food tours. I think it's like the funniest thing. Like what are, as a tour guide, I do everything. I do Brooklyn Bridge.

I do Grand Central. I do Central Park. I've done Harlem. Can do Statue of Liberty. But like one of my specialties, it's 9-11 and the food tours. But there is no 9-11 food tour. Let's be clear about that. Not yet.

So far. Yeah. And I do it based on neighborhood. I have an East Village food tour. I have a pizza food tour, Greenwich Village Food Tour, and we just get you all of the best food at all of the amazing prices. And we show you all the cool stuff in the neighborhoods that you really know your way around that neighborhood. Right now, we're doing private tours only for corporate events, also for families.

So reach out to us. We're going to get you an excellent rate. I'm going to make sure that you're either paid up with me. If you do the 9-11 Memorial, you will be paired up with me that has a company policy right now. But trust me, my other guides are incredible. You're going to be happy with any of them. let me help you plan your vacation. Let me give you a good list of things not to do.

A good list of things to do. It's cityshuffles.com. And by the way, I have tons of content on New York City that I'm posting every single day. I'm on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. And it's always the website.com slash johnnodo. In the case of Instagram, I had to get john. Dot noto.

John is spelled without an H. I was born without an H. Please don't hold that against me. J-O-N-N-O-T-O on Instagram, which seems to be the only algorithm that likes me. me, but I'm also on TikTok.com slash John Noto, YouTube.com slash John Noto. I have a lot of content coming out for you guys. A lot of it's humorous. Sometimes I like to go to locations where famous movies were filmed and I like to insert myself into the movie by filming another shot at that location. Other times I talk about 9-11. You really never know with my stuff whether you're

going to get something humorous or whether you're going to get something serious and that's what I bring to the table. So I hope you guys can give me a follow. Check out all of my content and cityshuffles.com, this is the company you want to reach out to when you're planning your next vacation and especially taking a tour with us because being a tour guide, that's something that a lot of people can do if they can speak well. It's something a lot of people can't do well. Only a select few of people can really, really do a great job at this. And I want to make sure you know we are all committed to improving the industry, giving you a top quality experience, and also improving New York city in general. So if your family, if you've ever wanted to learn about 9-11, I think I represent an

excellent chance for you to do so. But it doesn't have to be just 9-11. You want Grand Central, you want to go over the Brooklyn Bridge, you want to do the Statue of Liberty. You want to see all of our different food tours, Midtown Manhattan. We cover everything with the best guides in New York. So that's cityshuffles.com, Instagram.com, slash j-o-n-n-o. I really can't wait to hear from you guys. Be sure to reach out. Amazing. Yeah. Now tell me, what's a, an interesting interaction you've had on the tour, something optimistic, specifically maybe about a 9-11 tour, maybe with someone that survived or someone that knew someone that survived.

Is there anything that comes to mind? Really the most moving thing to me and the thing that made me realize that, you know, what I'm doing with the 9-11 Memorial, I see it as important, is when I used to start every tour with, is there anybody here who wants to see a specific name at the 9-11 Memorial?

And I always ask that question. And it gets frustrating when like you think you're so clever and helpful by offering this. And then everyone's just like, no. They don't have a name. Sometimes people would ask for who is the falling man, which we believe could be Jonathan Breiley. But it's not clear. One day a guy says, my friend was on, was killed that day. And so he's out here for the first time.

There are still, it's like it's not a given that everybody. who lost someone that day has visited this memorial at this point. Some people, especially older people, are very scared of going to this memorial. And I said, okay, everybody, we are looking for such and such gentleman's name that's I'll split up and look around, and I was the one that ended up finding it. And I just, I showed him how to pay tribute to someone's name. You fetch water from down below, and you're going to hold up, just let most of it pass through your fingers. After you scooped it up, you don't eat too much, and you're going to pour

through that person's name once and then twice and I put my hand to my face afterwards. That's something I do. And those represent tears for that person lost that day, for lack of them coming. And I just told him, like, listen, take all the time you need with your friend. This is the route that we're taking. You can probably catch up with us by the time we get to the Oculus. And I felt that was the greatest honor to like be able to help him with that. What did we lose and what did be game? from 9-11. You know, in some ways, we lost, what did we lose that was good?

What did we lose that was bad? One thing that we lost was, like, our seriously inflated ego as Americans, I miss the fact that as a child, I only ever perceived of America as undefeatable and the absolute best country in the world. Could never perceive of it otherwise. Now I see that we have flaws.

I'm proud to be an American. I wouldn't want to be European. I don't want to go back. as my ancestors came from there, I will only ever be American and God bless America. But I see that we have our imperfections. I can see that now. And that our arrogance led to designing these buildings that were rather, rather insecure, that this could happen to us.

And also that we shouldn't have meddled in the Middle East nearly as much as we did because we create a lot of angry young men over there who seek vengeance on us and can be manipulated to do this. And so we have this greater sense of like we need to be secure in ourselves. We now understand, I think both liberals and conservatives are anti-war right now and that's good. That's good. Keep that feeling. Whatever comes next, don't let that feeling if I'm not getting involved in another overseas war. Keep that feeling regardless of what you're about to see in the coming months or the coming years. And I don't make a prediction of what's going to happen. I make prediction. Something will happen to get you to feel a certain way. So keep that feeling that you have

right now. And what did we lose that was beautiful? Something that comes with that lack of desical nature, something that comes with that carefree spirit, that that feeling of invincibility is that Philip Petit could go all the way to the top of those towers, put a wire between the two of them, and walk across them. And this is a man who broke the rules the right way. Follow the rules. Don't do dangerous stuff, but something like that just doesn't fit in today's society. Like nobody would cheer him on. And yet when he's doing this, the police get up there, they see him doing it and they think like, okay, he's breaking the law. I have to arrest him. But like, oh, I have to let him keep doing it. He has to finish this. This is

something incredible right now. And he breaks these rules and all of all of the country, all of New York city says, oh, let him go. Like, let him go. And he gets let go. And he's honored. And he gets given a lifetime pass at the World Trade Center. And that is something beautiful and incredible part of a free nation that comes from this feeling that we are indestructible. That he can just get in there, go right to the top, and do something like some great person could break the rules for the right reasons, the right way.

That's something. That's a freedom that we lost. And that's worth considering because now you have one world trade center, which you should go ahead and visit. Go ahead and go to the top. It's really the most secure building in the world. It's made of a concrete 30 times stronger than the concrete found in the Hoover Dam. There is a staircase exclusively first responders inside of the concrete core. The base of the building is just completely thick with concrete.

All elevators, all staircases, all standpipes, all sprinkler systems, all electronic wiring is inside of the core rather than outside of the core. It is without a doubt the safest building in the world and possibly the most paranoid building in the world, which is good for safety. And Philip Petit, nobody like him is ever going to go to the top of there and do this thing with a wire ever again. For one thing, there's no twin to do it with. But remember, remember that's what we lost. And that's something to remember. You'll strive, you, Generation Z, Generation Alpha, you'll strive for your own sense of American greatness. and you'll get there your own way.

It's not going to be the way they did it in the 70s, but just remember that and remember to do great and incredible things while maintaining your sense of realism, your sense of security. That's my advice to you, and that's how we get to our... We're not going back.

Don't be nostalgia, because nostalgia, the nostalgia used to be better. We're not going back. We're going forwards with our own sense of freedom, our own sense of greatness. So just remember that as something that was great from the past. And we can reach those heights again.

It will be different, but we can reach those heights again. Nothing left to be said. Thank you. John Odo.