Camp Gagnon - Ex Cop REVEALS NYC Mob Stories

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

Former NYC Cop Tony Hernandez is BACK to tell us about all his craziest Mob stories from living and working around organized crime for most of his formative years. Tony dishes on all the neighborhood "Family" businesses, who the key players were and how much of that infrastructure remains. WELCOME TO CAMP! 🏕️ JOIN S'MORE CAMP INNER SANCTUM HERE: https://camp.beehiiv.com/ Shout out to our sponsors Prizepicks and Bluechew Prizepicks : https://prizepicks.onelink.me/ivHR/CAMP 0:00 Intro 1:51 Tony’s Mob Connection 7:37 The French Connection 12:27 Importance Of Respect + Dad’s Work 16:59 Dad’s Work 19:19 Inside The Restaurant + Tony’s Busboy Story 23:10 Cops Connection To Mobs 26:05 Mob Spots Around NY 28:16 Mob Activities 31:55 First Card Game + Meeting Women 37:38 Dice + Numbers 42:49 Knife Fight + Prostitutes  45:04 The Change Over Time 47:42 Breaking Up Bar Fights 49:39 NY Biker Gangs 51:48 Organized Crime Today 59:57 Sanitation Criminal Connection 1:01:51 Frank Sinatra 1:11:02 The Mobs Hollywood Influence 1:15:17 How Virgil Got Made 1:26:27 John Gotti 1:30:30 Gang vs. Mafia 1:32:00 Dirty Cops 1:40:29 Check Out Tony’s Channel

Being around them, you know the line not to cross. The waiter over there, the guy that's got a roughed up looking face and some messed up ears. That's an enforcer. You call him. He's the guy that will break somebody's legs. Closer to cast of characters that I grew up around. This is Tony Hernandez. He's a former NYPD transit cop who has an absolutely fascinating life.

He's been on this show before where he explained to us his craziest stories as a cop in New York City. But today, it's going to be a little bit different. Tony, despite his last name being Hernandez and looking like he plays his speaker too loud on the L train, is actually half Italian. and grew up spending most of his time with his Italian family here in New York City. And Tony's connection with the mafia in New York City goes deep. As a matter of fact, his family was actually connected to the French connection, a drug smuggling operation from Europe to bring drugs into New York City. The mob always controlled Virgil Alessi.

He was connected to the French connection. Him partnered with a guy named Vinnie Papa. All these guys were heavily involved in the narcotics trip. On top of that, he knows all the spots that the real New York City Mafiosos used to go. Not the stuff you see in movies, but like the real places. And he tells us everything. It's all about respect, the parkside and corona. That was run by tough Tony.

Bermontis has a rumored past of being connected to the wise guys. I'm not saying they're connected. And of course, Tony tells us what it was like working inside a mob joint. That's right. He actually worked with his father in a restaurant that was owned and frequented by mob boss. I ended up working in these places as well. Like me and my cousin would open the doors and we'd got like 50 bucks and be like, holy shit. We used to leave it hundreds of dollars.

Forget about it. It was like the best thing ever. This episode is absolutely fascinating. If you were interested in New York City Mafia stories, this is the one for you. I'm telling you nobody knows this stuff better than Tony because he is as close as you can get and still be a lot to talk about it. So without further ado, sit back, relax and welcome to Kent. Tony Hernandez, we're back. Thank you so much, brother.

Appreciate you having me back, man. Absolutely. We talked a lot about New York City crime in your life as a police officer in transit. But I kind of want to talk about a different area of expertise. you have grown up in New York City, you grew up around a lot of mob guys. And on your YouTube channel, you talk a lot about New York City crime as it relates to the Italian mafia specifically, but there's obviously a lot of mafia's in New York. So I'm curious, what was your connection growing up to the mob and who did you know and what kind of guys were you growing up around?

So I grew up in a neighborhood called The Hill. It's a little section of flushing that borders Main Street and the LIE.I. At that time, it was a generational neighborhood, especially when I was growing up. I guess you could consider me the last generation. My grandparents, my grandmother specifically was from Italy. And they were, when they came over on the boat, they settled in Corona on National Street. Still has Italian influence or whatever, but it was very heavy back then. Spaghetti Park, Parkside restaurant we were talking about. That was one of my favorite spots or whatever.

So like many other families, they wanted bigger, better opportunities for themselves. So on the other side of the park of Corona, which was the World's Fair, the Flushing Meadow Park, was flushing the hill nice little neighborhood tree lines suburbs or whatever and they all moved there but what also move with them there was the organized crime you know what i mean it was just entrenched in the society of who they were it was just part of the culture so during that time whatever i would see things like as a kid growing up or whatever with my grandmother because she was established in that neighborhood and i didn't know it was mafia or anything like that i don't know these guys were gangsters or whatever guy would come by got up

off a cart and a cigarettes to my grandmother. You'd have a big stack of cash or whatever. Like as a key, like, whoa, look at all that money or whatever, you know. But you're not thinking anything. You're like, oh, he sells cigarettes or whatever, you know. Then I would go into the key food, which was the local supermarket. And anybody that knows key food, it's owned by Taps, their parent company, which is a mob-run company. Oh, really?

At least mob influence. Patsy Conti, who was a captain in the Gambino Crime Family. He had like a 25, 30 percent stake in the company. Wow. And when a mob guy has stake in a company, I can guarantee nobody's telling him what to do. I can almost guarantee it that nobody's telling him. Even if it's a minor share, it's like... Even to my share, you know who he is probably, you know the kind of connections he has.

And, you know, a lot of these guys are presidents on paper, but you know who's really the boss in the spot. That's a mob joint. Wow. So growing up, you know, I would go into the key food and there'd be tons of guys in there. Some of them were wise guys later to find out, whatever, but they were super nice to me. Give me baloney from behind the counter, a candy ball. when I went into the candy store, whatever. Oh, he's called my grandmother Dali.

Oh, your Dali's grandson? I'm all very, very nice people. It's the culture, you know what I mean? I didn't see the organized crime, what everybody thinks, the violence, you know, the Al Capone, the killing in the street and all that stuff. I didn't see that side of it. So, you know, growing up, whatever,

these were just the people I grew up around. So my, one of my uncles, he came straight from Naples. He was born and raised there, whatever. He came to this country, I believe, when he was 17. He was not a member of organized crime, but his whole family that preceded him to this country were involved with him.

They settled in the Queen section, Long Island City section, whatever, and during that time, there was a very prominent gangster named Virgil Olesi. Now, if you know anything about the mob, the mob always controlled drugs. The myth is not true that the mob never sold drugs. They controlled every single out of,

aspect of the drug trade. Back from Lucky Luciano or whatever, getting on a heroin bus, Vito Geneviz. We're talking about the godfathers, the origination of the five families of mafia. They were involved in drug trafficking. Their mentor, Arnold Rothstein,

also a big H-mover, involved in a lot of drug trafficking and stuff like that. So this is just all their predecessors. So they didn't give up moving drugs. They continually moved drugs. And do you think they hit it? Because there was like a little stigma. Like, you know,

there's like this Catholic religiosity to these early mob guys. Do you think they were kind of like, ah, we're not really in drugs, even though they were? Well, no, I think they thought it was a dirty business, but it had nothing to do with the stigma. And, you know, it's funny or whatever, because what stigma? They'll kill people, but they won't sell drugs. It's like, it's a little, you know, it's hypocritical. I think it was more of the, they thought the heat that it would bring down from law enforcement wasn't really worth it. Which is also hypocritical because if you got a guy out there selling some powders for you or whatever,

and each transaction is 30 years, it's not like the four or five you might get for bookmaking. or Lone Shark and something like that, breaking somebody's legs. This is like life-changing time that these guys are getting. So they might flip. However, it's also like an oxymor on a hypocritical because you're going to send the guy out a button man. You're going to send him out to go push a button on a guy or whatever and take somebody out, which could get him life,

but you won't let him sell drugs. I don't know. I feel like the mafia in itself, the bosses or whatever, they're just hypocritical. It was almost the do-as-I-say, not as I do, because almost all of the bosses were involved in some kind of drugs. You know, Carlo Gambino put a drug edict.

Nobody was allowed to deal drugs. However, there were certain members of the Gambino family that were heavily entrenched in drugs. And rumor has it that he had a boss from the West Side Genevice family killed in the 70s for a drug deal gone bad using Gambino's money.

Wow. So it's just all a big hypocrisy. So going back to what I was saying about Virgil Alessi, he was connected to the French connection. Him partnered with a guy named Vinnie Papa, Vincent Papa. They were from the Astoria, Long Island City section of Queens,

and they had a direct line to the French connection. Now, can you, obviously, people know the legendary movie, The French Connection. Can you describe what the French connection was in actuality? Yeah, so it was a group of drug traffickers

from France. They were actually from Corsica, a little island off of France with Corsican Mafia, Paul Carbone, Austin Rincourt, a bunch of these guys, whatever. I forget the rest of the names off the top of my head. But they would,

source the opium from Indochina, Thailand. Don't forget at that time, a lot of that was under French rule. So they had, they controlled, I'm sure, the crops and whatever else was going on. Vietnam, all that shit. Burma, all those kind of places. Thailand, you know, the basis of the French connection comes from those regions, you know, the Golden Triangle, Indochina, all that stuff, where they would mine raw opium from villagers, farmers, and stuff like that, smuggle it into France by way of Corsica, processed them labs in Marseille and stuff like that, and then transfer the heroin through Canada eventually to the United States. Wow.

So there was big players from a lot of families involved in this, I believe. Carmen Galante, obviously, he was the rogue renegade banana mafia boss. He got killed in Bushwick here, Joe and Mary's spot in 1979. Wow. Yeah, it's not far from here. So he was, he established a pipeline or whatever from the French with the Sicilians, as well as Big John O'Mento. He was with the Lucchaseys.

I mean, all these guys were heavily involved in the narcotics trade. And one of the sources that Vinnie Popper was supposedly getting the heroin from, I mean, these were the guys that, when I say they had the French connection, when they got off the boat, they were the guys that got a. first. That's what I mean. Like, that was their connection. A few guys that had it, you know, it wasn't just one guy that had it. It was a guy named Herbie Spurling. He was a tough little Jewish gangster connected to all these wise guys. He dealt with Nikki Barnes and all these top bar drug dealers.

No, Lansky was different. I'm not sure if Lansky was involved in drugs. I'm sure he was, but that was the time a little bit before. I see. Yeah, by the 60s, I believe Lansky was already retired and stuff like that. This was the new generation. The guys that came up to, like, Herbie Spirling, he was like a gopher, like a phone man or something for Vito Genovese. Yeah. So it was like, these guys have very entrenched in the life. So fast forward, whatever, to the 60s. And now they have this prominent H connection, whatever, that, you know, is supplying pure heroin to organized crime families. And Vincent Papa and Virgil Alessi were partners who had a piece of direct line to it.

Oh, wow. And at one point in 1975, Virgil was listed as one of the 13 most biggest drug traffickers in New York City on the Italians. There was four Hispanic, I believe five black and the rest of the Italian. One of them is Joe Beck de Palermo. He's a famous heroin age trafficker with Lucchese family. And right above is Leroy, Nikki Barnes, the famous Nikki Barnes. And Virgil's kind of this guy who was very well known or whatever. And he is my Uncle Michael's family.

Wow. So I kind of grew up around him. and my uncle worked for him, my father worked for him, in legitimate businesses they had. My father saw the terrible side of organized crime, and my uncle did too, back in their respective countries. You know, my uncle would tell me stories, the things that he saw in Naples.

He's like, you know, I really never wanted to get involved in that because you'd have to kill your own brother. That's what he told me. Wow. He would tell me some crazy stories, whatever, like, and it'd be shocked, you know. So, you know, Virgil spent a lot of time in jail during the 70s when he was doing, like, his rise,

he was a French connection guy or whatever. So these guys, like I said, the mob outlawed the drugs. But these guys were all mafia-connected drug dealers. You know, they were probably paying someone, but the mob was actually bringing the drug in. The guys that they moved it were guys like Virgil and Vinnie Papa who weren't made but could have a meeting with Carlo Gambino. Not many men could sit down with Carlo Gambino, but Vinnie Papa could. Wow. You know what I mean?

And so did you meet any of these guys? I met Virgil. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, really? Evangelista. Yeah. Rocco, Rocco didn't die. Rocko recently died, rest in peace. He died in 2021. So I never really spoke to him about any of that stuff. I didn't cross the line and ask him those things like, because he was older by now. You know, this was when these guys were

young. You know, they had served their time. They did the different lives now. You know, I'm not really sure what. Like, you know, I think Rocky worked for a company and Virgil, I passed away. So it was like, you know, I knew who they were. You know what I mean? And I remember being young meeting Virgil. I used to know him a lot because I used to go with my father sometimes. A lot of the parties like Fourth of July and Christmas Eve and stuff like that or whatever, you know. Wow. And they didn't treat you any different because you're half Mexican, half Italian.

Like they didn't see, there was not like any type of like. I was family. You know what I mean? And my father was a respected man. You know, my father told me a story once and Virgil used to give my father kisses on the cheek. Not how many Mexican guys can get kissed by it. And Virgil was made at this time. He got made later, which I'll tell you about.

But how many Italian guys like that of that prominence or whatever would kiss a guy like my father who's, you know, just family, but not in the world of organized crime on the cheeks? And the two. At that time, that was big respect. Funny story is he told my father one time, he said, Tony shaved the mustache. That's like a thing with mob guys or whatever.

Maybe it reminds him of rats. I asked him, I was like that. Did you ever ask him why? He's like, no, you just told me to shave it. But I was assuming it was something like that. He's like, there's only one guy who's allowed to have a mustache here, and that was my uncle Michael. Wow. And I think that was because Virger respected the fact that he came off the boat and the Italians, you know, they had like their own thing going on, you know.

Like, they respected that, you know, so he was allowed to have a mustache. Wow. Remember what I was telling you about these wise guys? They're like the fucking Japanese. They're very, like, respect is like paramount, you know? You have to walk on eggshells sometimes. Wow. Now, can you share what the business was your dad was running?

Restaurants. Okay. restaurants, bars, caterment holes, stuff like that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So can you explain sort of like how that economy works? Like a mob guy, like a maid dude, might have a restaurant. Right.

And then he gets, you know, good guys. He respects to kind of like run it. Trusted people. Family, usually. And so that kept your family out of the actual business of it. But they were obviously working with guys that were owning the restaurants that were had the money and all that shit that were mobbed up. Right. So, so both my father and my uncle.

were approached to join that life in any capacity, you know what I mean, just because of they were capable men, they know their background, they know their blood. I mean, they trace the stuff all the way back to Italy. Like my uncle's generation in his family goes back in Naples for, I don't know how many centuries, but a long time. So it's like they know where you come from,

and that's really who they want to recruit. They want the people that they know will you ever rat in your family? Most likely not, you know? So that's the kind of people they want. And if they trust you, you know, they want you around them, you know. So my uncle was approached, like I said, and he didn't want to. He was approached in Italy, he said. But it was more the fact that he said.

He's like, you know what happens? When you're getting to that life, you have to kill people. And my father, he saw the dirty side of it from growing up and his cousins and shit actually getting killed. They pushed a boulder one time on my uncle. In Mexico, they had the big boulders on the side of the cliff or whatever in Acapulco, you know, where the cliff dives going, all that stuff or whatever. and my uncle was in the car with a girl and they fucking threw the boulder on or whatever and crushed him.

And that was it? Mm-hmm. Well, so your dad saw that stuff? And he was like, it ain't worth it in the end because, you know, you gotta do all this shit and yeah, you live a life, but one day it stops and then that's it.

He's like, I'd rather, you know, they're family so you could be close and, you know, you'll make money with those guys, you know, just from being around them in a way, just like you know the line not to cross. Now, is there some guys that they're, cross-line? Sure. It was one of the bartenders there, known bookie. He's

used to bartender, whatever, as a night to five, but he was a bookie. The waiter over there, the guy that's got a fucking roughed-up looking face and some messed up ears or whatever, that's an enforcer. He's just chilling there as a waiter. He's probably a street guy or whatever, but you call him or whatever, and he's the guy that'll break somebody's legs. Those are the

cast of characters that I grew up around. Hey guys, really quick. Did you know that on this day in history in 1582, Pope Gregory introduced the Gregorian calendar, which most of the world still uses today? Or that in 1957, the Soviet Union launched Sputnik won the first artificial satellite into orbit. This event triggered the space race between the USA and the USSR. I learned these facts pretty recently, actually, on the Smoor Camp newsletter.

That's right. Smoor Camp, the inner sanctum. For this kind of show, we do a ton of research. I have different researchers and friends that help me find information, and not everything can make the episode. Either it's too crazy, it's too, like, weird or gory, and it will get demonetized on YouTube. or it's just additional and it doesn't always make it, but it always makes it into the Smoor Camp Inner Sanctum newsletter.

So if you were interested in expanding your mind, learning new information, and being the most interesting person into every room you step into, check it out in the description or this QR code right here. Now let's get back to the show. Was it disrespectful for your father,

your uncle, to say no thanks? No, not at all. Like, do you have to be careful with that? I could just be like, hey, I appreciate the offer, but I'm actually, I'm okay. As long as you are a man and you're respectful, there's nothing to be worried about, especially when you deal with organized criminals.

When you deal with disorganized criminals, you don't know if they're going to kill you over a fight, I'll hit a Coke. You know what I mean? But when you're dealing with businessmen, and that's what they were. They were businessmen. Violence when needed, you understand?

Not because I want to. It's spoiled out of control like everything else. But when you have the kind of respect of, you know, listen, I don't want to be involved, whatever, I just want to do straight or whatever, unless you really have something they want, let's say, like something of value that they might go after you for,

but usually you're protected. Like, oh, all right, don't buck with him because he's so-and-so's uncle or cousin. Somebody will speak for you. Or having their arm around you, you know? Anybody got their arm around you? It's the same, you know? That's what they say.

So I don't think that they offended anyone by turning it down. It would have offended someone more if you say yes and then fucked up or backed out, you understand? But if you say no from the beginning, how can you get upset? That makes sense.

My dad was approached actually to set up like a drug connection because one of his family members was, you know, pretty prominent or whatever. I'm not going to say his name, but he was pretty prominent or whatever. And when they found out that my father was like a cousin of his or whatever, the Italians wanted that connection.

And he was like, I don't, I don't, that's not my role. They invited my father. A girl approached my father. A girl. And a lot of people are probably like, oh, you know what he's talking about. That or dad. The mob doesn't use women, blah, blah, blah.

Are women in the mafia? No. Does the mafia use women to do their bidding? One million percent. Okay. So a girl actually came to my father, flirt, whatever, you know, try to establish a bond to introduce him to people who were interested in his context. Wow.

And he didn't go to the meeting, he told me. Wow. That was like his way of saying no. Wow. I mean, that's like, it's just high stakes. You're playing a high stakes game. It's really not worth it in the end because my father told me like when everything's, when all the chips started to fall or whatever,

especially since the fact that he can never be made, he would have been one of the first guys to die probably. Fuck. You know, so he didn't really want that stuff. He made the right choice. He made the right choice. But if you're running a business, you know, a legit business for guys that are mobbed up,

a final one thing about mob businesses is that they're not, you know, fully clean. They'll never be 100% legit, you're correct. And so did he have to do anything or like, do he see anything while he was working that he had to be like, oh, all right, these books are not exactly correct, or like maybe there's a money laundering thing

or did he see anything like that? They weren't in the back. they weren't in the back office. They were in the front, running the joint. When you run the joint, you're responsible for what goes on in the place at the time. My uncle was in charge. My father was his first captain.

So, you know, my uncle, hey, this is going on this and that. He reports back. That's it. As far as finance, all that kind of stuff, where the money goes, the envelopes and whatever else comes in. Those are all made. That was above his pay grade. That you actually have to probably be involved in that other side.

The other thing. That's when they start trusting. But he's got to do all the hospitality with the dudes when they come in. There's a table ready for them. Make sure that there's no bugs. Make sure that nobody's listening. Make sure there's no rare people there, whatever. Is it safe to talk?

Who's this guy, whatever? I didn't forget one time. And I ended up working in these places as well. That's how I kind of got in. I got into trouble as a kid. And the way to save me, my father, my uncle, because I was dippling, dabbling as a kid going there. Like me and my cousin would open the doors

and we got like 50 bucks and we were like, holy shit. We got $50. We were like, you're rich. Bro, we were like seven maybe, you know what I mean? And wise guys, they got a lot of money. So they were, pop, bon, bon, then we started doing co-check at like 11, 12 or whatever. Forget it. We used to leave it hundreds of dollars.

We were like 12. Forget about it. It was like the best thing ever. I want to go back to work with you. I want to go back to work with. It was like a thing. You know, I wanted to. So finally, when I got a little older, my uncle to keep me out of the street,

whatever, you know, because you saw I was getting in trouble. I got arrested. I did some shit. And actually the first time, no, I had some weed and my father found my stash. So my uncle was like, oh, your father told me you're getting in trouble. What are you doing that for? I was like, I don't make a little money, smoke, whatever. He's like, you want to come work with me.

So he gave me an opportunity to be a bus boy. And that's how I got in officially. Oh, wow. I did a little co-check when I was younger, like I said, holidays and stuff like that, and we would open the doors. But the real money started coming in when I became a bus boy. That was when I saw, like, serious money. Like, my friends were at that time, minimum wage was 875 or something like that.

Maybe 775, if you may have. like 10 bucks an hour, whatever, you're doing fantastic. I was making 50 an hour, 40 an hour, 30 was bad. I was considering, you know, I was 14, 15 years old. Wow. So I was making crazy money. So when I saw that, it wasn't a bad thing. You know what I mean?

It wasn't really bad. I knew to keep my mouth shut about certain things that I saw and was just like, you know, whatever. Like you said, there's always something that goes on illegal. And it might not be the typical mob racket that's, you know, breaking legs and all this kind of stuff and shooting and moving big, piles of money and drugs or whatever, but let's say there's

filling up the liquor bottles, taking the truck of meat from a guy that you know just stole it and shit like that, you know what I mean? Like, remember Goodfellas when they're wheeling the thing in the front and then wheeling it out the back? Things like that or whatever I would see.

Like, their illegal gardens of cigarettes and stuff like that. Now, if a mob guy came into the restaurant, does he have a table set up at all times? Does they leave it empty? Or like... Depends who you are? Like, what if they're...

packed and it's like, yo, some guys just came in like, hey, guys, we got to wrap up. No dessert for y'all. Y'all got to go. I'm sure that's happened. I never had to do it. The one time, I've been around a lot of mob guys or whatever, you make them a table. They feel more special, like good fellas. All the tables are all packed or whatever.

Don't want to make you one. Over here, please come. It might be a small table on the bar, but this is just for you, you know? And then, boom, I get 100 bucks or something, you know? I used to play those games, you know, sometimes. You make people feel more special to take care of you, especially the wise guys. They throw money like it's fucking water. Now, would a cop ever come in and try to, like, you know, sneak around or, like, snoop and see what's going on?

Like, did you know as a cop? At that level, you wouldn't have NYPD. Because cops and mobsters and cops, we run in the same circles. We grow up in the same neighborhoods. Our kids go to the same schools. It's kind of like you know who's who or whatever. It gets a level above, I think, when you go to organized crime. Now, there's units in the dorm.

department for it, but I think it gets a level above when the state police and the federal start touching it. When the federal's come in, you'll never know who's who. There's some that we knew, you know, like, you know their feds or whatever, but for the most part, no. There was one guy. One time, my uncle was like VIP and like, you know, it was somebody important, and then I saw it, you can just tell what a gangster looks like, you know, me personally, I can't. So I see this guy, I was like, oh, he's a gangsters. So older, they were Polish from Greenpoint. So older man with a mustache and his fucking bodyguard or whatever this guy was a house bro just he kind of looked like Fador's brother Alexander yeah yeah yeah like Eastern European

just face with the big features or that like his head was like a pit bull just huge whatever and when I was I was a bus boy at this time I believe and VIP met at that time whatever because I was a bus boy give them like cheese and olives or something not just bread give him something special. So I think I gave him maybe brusquetta and like cheese and olives. And as I'm walking with the thing over or whatever, the mobbos, I heard him say this because he's talking to my uncle or whatever. And he's like, who's that?

Who's this guy coming over the table right now? That fucking monster of a man turned around. And remember I told you, I seen the eyes of killers or whatever? Scary dude, bro. Scary. Talking about 6'4, like 300 something, just a big house of a man or whatever, ready to snap my neck in two seconds if that guy told him to. that was one's experience I had or whatever

but the other guys or whatever most of them were nice you know like they were classy guys you know a lot of I'm the man shit you know and you gotta as a man sometimes that's hard but in the service industry I don't think of that I put my head down and I say yes sir

no matter what I'm there to do a job I don't care treat me like shit whatever you want whatever as long as you give me a hundred bucks I'll take wow you know so that was that was the kind of vibe I got growing up around those guys it wasn't like bad or this and that but going back to your question or whatever I think that every single mob joint or anyone that's like there, you know, you walk on your toes, you step on you, you, you walk on eggshells a little bit, but it's all about respect at the end of the day.

If they see you're trying, if you're not being disrespectful, like, they don't expect you to go kick someone out of their table so you can get it. Some guys, they got egos that big, but most guys, you know, if you make them feel special in another way, you're okay. Wow. Yeah, so you wouldn't really feel any kind of problem if you didn't give them what they wanted or whatever. So what are like the mob spots in the area? Like what are the mob joints that people would go to and like what kind of guys would pull up? Like I had mentioned, I think on our previous podcast last time I was here, Parkside and Corona. That's got to be one of the most famous ones.

That was run by Tough Tony, which is hilarious because the guys was a captain, a known captain, supposedly according to the FBI with the West Side, the Genevese family. I never was in jail. Went to jail once. You know what it was for? shooting hawks on his roof because he had a pigeon coop with a shotgun. That's the only time he ever went to jail. Wow.

Guy was a pillar in the community. Everybody loved them. We'd give money to everybody. The food is fantastic. You got politicians that eat in there. Judges, wise guys. You know what I mean? That's the typical wise guy joint, for sure.

There's a few more around this neighborhood. Bermontis, you know, has a rumored past of being connected to the wise guys. I'm not saying they're connected. I said they had a rumored past of being connected to wise guys. And you could look it up on the internet. It's very famous. A lot of guys used to operate out of there. You know, it was creches in this neighborhood, also a known wise guy joint.

Right now, you know where Joe's Pizza is? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right down the block over here? That was the wise guy joint. What was it? And nobody knows. There's a ball. I think I have pitches.

Before my friend from the Navy, he was going to jail. He was going to take a low rest. We had his going away party in there. Yeah, the guy's name was Rocky. I won't say his last name. That had that spot. He used to own a bar under the bridge, too. But I was too young for that one.

and my father would tell me about it. When he found out I was hanging in there, he wasn't happy. But it was a bar. So when you walked in, it was a corner spot, had like one of those old school doors where you're like diagonal almost where you walk in. It was like a little lounge, like a couple old-ass couches, straight hipster style, you know?

Like fucking they just found some couches in the garbage and put him in there. A little dance floor, then a nice bar and a backyard. And used to be able to just chill all night. Wow. He was like a bookmaker. I know he used to sell a little dope and his lady a little coat to the patrons and stuff

just like a supplement. I don't know what else he was into, but I know for sure he was a connecting guy. He passed away and they tried. Two girls, I believe, tried to run that ball for a little while. Yeah, after I think he might have sold him for nothing because they were like his longtime workers. But they didn't do well. And Joe's board and turned into a pizza rear. Wow.

Yeah. And so what kind of stuff are these guys doing in the restaurant, like card games, like stuff like that? Like I imagine, you know, it would be like a little gambling, you know, like hang out. So there's a coffee shop. And there's tons of them, so I'm not outing in them. As I used to go to in Middle Village. And it's bakery, gelato in the front, and straight up Atlantic City in the background. Really?

Yeah. Roulette table, card table, craps table, all that stuff. Security cameras and shit probably. Of course. Wow. You know how many spots that you can probably walk into as a civilian or whatever, not even being connected and see a joker-boken machine? I saw one the other day.

Yeah. At a bar on Ridgewood. It wouldn't even cross my mind. You wouldn't even think that it's illegal. You'd probably be like, oh, look, a nice little nostalgic slot machine. Yeah, exactly. You know, not, no. And they'll tell like, oh, this is just for fun.

But everybody knows, whatever, what's going on. And so how do you get into the bad car game? You got to know someone? Yeah. Yeah, to actually sit down at a car game. I sat down at a car game for the first time when I was 15. Oh, wow. Yeah.

And it was definitely, like, connected people, shrieve guys and stuff like that. I was just drawn to that. The things that I like to do, the illegal vices that I like to do back then are now legal as long as you do them within the confides of the United States government's parameters. You know what I mean? They don't really have a problem if you smoke weed and gamble as long as they get their cut. But if you're rolling dice on a corner and you're smoking a blunt, in my day, you would be fucking locked up for a little while.

Yeah. You know? So those are the things that I kind of liked as a kid and I would gravitate towards. So that's how I would find these underground card games. And then where I was was very situational, like where I grew up because I spent a lot of time here as well in Williamsburg. And if you know anything about it, it's a very connected mom neighborhood as well back in the day. Probably still is, you know. but growing up whatever, you know, I was close to downtown flushing.

So before the Asian invasion or whatever you want to call it that came up Main Street or whatever going that way towards the hill, you know, there was a lot of Chinese gambling spots down and flushing, a lot, a lot. And one thing about the Chinese gambling joints, as long as you don't cause no problem, they'll let anybody in there. Really? Anybody in there, anybody. Did you ever play those games?

They play like Majan and a couple other games or whatever I would try to play the dice games that I knew You know but I wouldn't really I didn't get too much into the card games And Blackjacket, they had Blackjack. They had Baccarat. They had Baccarat. They did have a roulette table and one of the ones I went

There was one I didn't see it But there was a sergeant that I worked with And he told me in In Ozone Park That used to be Gotti's neighborhood or whatever You know a lot of wise guys are from there, another generational neighborhood that's lost. It's all West Indian,

Guineate, Trinidadian, Indian, you know, now. He told me that it was on Liberty Avenue, I believe, and they got a call for like a disturbance or whatever, you know, so they're like this guy in his restaurant or whatever, and they go in and in the basement was the most

intricate, full-fledged casino he had ever seen in his life, like slots against the walls. He's like, I felt like I walked into Trump Plaza back in the 90s. He's like, slots against the walls. They had poses. Everything in the basement of a bar on Liberty Avenue in this time, right now going on. I'm not talking about 80s, 90s, Italian stuff. I'm talking about right now.

People upstairs drinking regular Joe's and then downstairs. Full casino. Wow. Yeah. And you got to like know a password. You got to come in with a guy. You got to know someone. There's a lot of them.

I mean, I'll take you with me if you want to go if you like the gamble. But I don't even know. Some of them I know I know I'm not allowed in anymore because I haven't. I don't even know if they're around anymore, some of them. But I know some that friends of mine will take us in. And how, I mean, how did you do that first card game you played when you were 15? What do you mean by how I did? Like, how'd you do?

Oh, did I do good? Yeah. I don't remember to be honest. I was just so excited to be there. I was, I was a little nervous. You know, I'm sitting down with men, growing men at 15, you know? And they treat you like a man because your money's green, but you know, you can't get away with, oh, I'm just 15. I didn't know.

Not at those games. You understand? Like, you better come correct with everything. If you win too much, do they get pissed? I've heard stories where guys weren't invited back. I heard stories where guys got fucked up, but in my thing, nobody got robbed or anything. They would just make you feel uncomfortable maybe so you wouldn't come back. Interesting.

Yeah, like talk shit to you and stuff like that, you know? Yeah. A lot of guys were older and Italian and, you know, some of them could be arrogant, you know. I think they're better than you in a way, you know, so I look down on you and talk shit to you. And it's like, hey, you might be semi-connected, but it's like, I'm not going to start a problem with you anyway. Talk your shit, whatever. I'm just here to play cards. Were women around at all?

There was girls serving drinks. Yeah. Yeah, girls serving drinks. But they were, they were employed. There was no, like, women playing. No, I don't think I ever sat down with a woman playing. I'm trying to think, but no. But it makes sense, though.

This is, you know, the way these guys are going to take a break from the family and go hang out with some dudes. Yeah, and one of the girls, I knew her or whatever. Like, she was a bartender in the other place. And they asked her, like, hey, you want to come and wait on these guys? You know, they'll tip you or whatever. And she was the one that actually got me into another game. Yeah, so sometimes it would be like that. I used to be quite the ladies man.

Yeah. I couldn't imagine. I would call me Tony Hanson, but nothing. So, you know, I would, and that's how I would, that's honestly why I know so much about so many different neighborhoods, women. Yeah. I would go to any neighborhood. If you look good and you were into me, I would meet you wherever, local hookup. So wherever I met you hunt, I would go to you.

Could be fucking Jersey or wherever. Staten Island? I went to Staten Island. When I got a car, though. When I got a car. I wasn't taking no train. Yeah, I can take a boat. The longest I ever went to go.

see a chick and this before I drive was, and I didn't know that the L-I-Double R had multiple lines. I thought it was just one line to go to Long Island. I went to see a chick in Freeport when I was like 15. How far is that? Fucking far as hell. And I took the train out there and you had to take two trains, so I had to

transfer. I didn't know. I got totally lost. At that time, Freeport was infested with MS-13. Infested. The girls picked me up from the train station. She's these two hot Dominican chicks or whatever. I met him at the parade. So you know, I knew what they looked like in person.

They were smoking hot. It sounds like a setup, bro. No, I didn't give a shit. I didn't even care. I didn't even care. I was going. You would die for it. That would have been a good fucking story to die from.

Like, how did he die? Oh, he met these two smoking hot chicks. So I get there, and the girl's bleeding on the back of her ankle. I was like, you're bleeding. She's like, oh, son of a bitch, they were throwing bottles at me. I was like, throwing bottles at you? Who? She's like, the Mara.

I was like, the Mara Salvatruch, the MS-13? She's like, yeah, there's a bunch of them. We got to walk past. I'm like, oh, God. I'm like 15 years old, bro. So luckily, whatever, they're like at one side of that. They lived in this big white building in Freeport. I don't know.

If you're from Freeport, you know what building I'm talking about. So back in the day, it was rough, bro. It was like, I don't know, that side or whatever. You think at that time I thought Long Island was nice, you know, like suburb and Pontchies. I didn't know that there was hoods out there. So, like, when I got off, I was by, like, this fire station, and I went down this block and it reminded me to the dirty south, bro.

tons of guys hanging out on their corner the fucking street sides are bent like this I'm like oh I'm gonna get murdered here I'm like I'm dead I walk through nobody really mess with me and as soon I'm with these two smoking hot girls I'm young as hell I'm walking through the I get through all these guys right so I get to like the corner

of the building and they're like run and I'm like what I want to be a pussy you know Lord of Jungle you don't run you know what I mean like I'm gonna be pray so I'm like they're running and you see the MS-13 or whatever right there so I'm like oh my God so I'm like just Spiwark, as soon as I hit that corner, I couldn't want a marathon, bro. I tell you right now, no, you're saying Bolt, you couldn't even beat me, bro.

I fucking hit that door so fat. As soon as I turned that corner, woof, woof, I got right into the door. You can hear him, bomb, bomb, bomb, banging on the door coming after me or whatever. I was like, oh, I'm stuck here. I'm stuck. A little long story, I know. That's a good place to be stuck, though. On the inside.

It was a nice night. It was a nice night. Worth it? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Nice. And then going home was chill. I went.

I left in a taxi. I waited until like five, six in the morning when everybody was done. Pay $200 and got the fuck out. I died time it was $75. Okay. I wanted 75 hours. For a 15-year-old, that's all your bus boy morning.

That was a lot of money, bro. I maybe had $78 cash. So it was like, I just got the guy to the thing. I was like, ah, yeah. Oh, that's wild. But so you would think growing up around mob guys and stuff like that and being in the street or whatever as a kid, you wouldn't see stuff like that outside.

I don't know, but it exists, you know. But like I said, growing up, I kind of dipped and dabble lived in the street, but, you know, I didn't, I knew that there was also lines that I wouldn't cross. So, like, at these card games or whatever, you know, there was also, you network, you talk, you know, what are you into, what do you like to do, or this guy's doing this, or you hear some guy talking about a business thing, and you might want to get involved, you know. Some of them are semi-elegal, maybe, you know?

So that's how you kind of make connections. And I think the way, you know, I always keep my mouth shut, you know, I don't really like to tell people's business and go and be like, oh, this guy's got this big warehouse for a lot. a shit, whatever, this and that, whatever. It's like, I wouldn't do that. You know what I mean? So it was like, I kind of gained a lot of respect with those guys as well. You also a good role models.

Like, your dad was like, look, you can be around it, but don't be in it. Right. And so you were able to be like, okay, I can be around. I can dabble. I can have my fun, but I'm not going to get, you know, fucked up. That's exactly right. Yeah, that's smart. Can you explain dice?

Like, I'm not from New York. So I like, see guys on the corner, like, rolling dice. Like, like, how do you play? You'll get three dice, right? and you'll roll the two dice. The C-law is his own game. So it's like it's a three-dice game. One, two, three is automatic loss.

Four, five, six is an automatic win. You have something called trips where three numbers come out the same, depending if they're one to six, the highest triple win. And then you have points. So in order to score a point, let's say you roll snake eyes, which is one in one, and then a five. The third dice is your point. That's how you play.

So right now I got a five. You roll deuses. 2-2 and a 4. I won. Because you had the higher point. But if you got a 4-5-6, you don't even wait for me to roll. You just take it. You get a 1-2-3, automatically lose.

You just take it. Thousands of dollars can change fast. Really? Change hands so fast. Because you normally see them on the corner that'll be throwing down like, you know, ones, maybe a 5 or 10. Those guys, I think play craps. Oh, really?

Yeah, I think those are crap. If they throw them two dice, that's craps. Gotcha. But they don't play on the corner. Yeah, you will play it on the corner. You use the backdrop as the felt. I don't know how they do the points system or whatever. I don't know.

Like in Bronx Tale or whatever, you know? And he's like, I don't want him to touch him looking at my dice or whatever, you know? Like, I don't know how they set the points like that, the street dice games, but there's ways to play street craps. But if you say three diets, that's called, yeah. That's the silo. Yeah. And you make some money playing silo? That was big, bro.

And if you were the bank, there's guys that used to be the bank, you used to just bet with him. You know, like, all right, I'm the bank or whatever. You're all betting against me. Fucking bank, you'd have to have money to be a bank because you have to cover everybody's bets. But the banker there with all fucking money or whatever, you know? And all he was doing was just, he's literally playing five different guys. They're all just betting against him because it's his game. And how does that guy protect himself?

It's his game. But he's walking around with all his cash on the corner somewhere. Like, he's good. You answer your own question. Come on. How do you protect yourself in New York City? Come on. If you were in that game, if you were in that life, you're strapped.

I don't know many guys. Didn't that rapper get killed? Which one? In the city? Not offset, the other one. Over a dice game. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah.

Everybody has guns when you gamble. If you street gamble, you got to have a gun. Or you got to have something to enforce that that money is yours and that nobody's taking it. Because there can be a guy that just walks up on the game and takes your money. What are you going to do? A big guy, like a depot, comes over, whatever, and takes your stuff or whatever. What are you going to do? Even as a player?

Yeah. Even as a player. You know how many people get Jack from leaving the dice game as a winner? A lot. Wow. This is an episode in The Wire. You talk about that. Remember the kids?

You never saw it? I'm leaving. There's an episode. He's two little kids. They, like, do probability. So they go on the street corner of Baltimore and test it out, whatever. And they're asking one of the guys. He's like, you're not going to rob us.

He's like, you made me so much money. I'm not going to rob you. He's like, but they needed him to walk them off. Oh, wow. Because that's how you get hurt. A lot of guys have been shot and killed over dice games. Oh, that's crazy. I mean, that's insane.

And so these guys, they would just run these games. What about, like, numbers games? How do those work? What do you mean by numbers games? Like the numbers when somebody says they take numbers. Yeah, yeah. Like you hear that. There's like a woman in the community.

It's like the lottery. It's like literally she was running a little lottery. Pretty much the same thing. It depends. Like because Cubans have their own thing, the Bolita system. I think that Dominicans now are doing that as well. Like all the barbershops or whatever or all Dominican owned, a lot of them, whatever. And they do things computer now.

You know, I bet myself, I'll be honest. I've gone in there, whatever. You don't have to pay taxes. Oh shit, tax evasion. But it's like, you know, it's like they got to. computer system, they're right there, they take cash, you're good to go. How would they do it back in the day without computer? So the bolitas or whatever, they'd have the actual thing, or it would be the numbers

from the horse races. Whatever the take was in at the horse races, the last three numbers, that's what people would play. So when the paper would come out and they'd take the tally at whatever Aquedoc took in for the day, whatever the money was, the last three digits, that's what the number was. So they would take bets off of that. You were playing Domino's? Yeah, but I'm not that good at it.

No? Yeah, I don't have the patience for it, right? Domino's is a game. I guess he just chilled and get drunk. Is that it? That's not like a money game. It is. You guys have see people play Domino's for money, sure.

Gotcha. Yeah, they have domino tournaments and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I mean, I see them. Like, even on the corner here, he'll still see them playing Domino's. On the south side over here, you'll still see a lot of the guys playing Domino's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Old school Puerto Rican dudes still chilling over there. Those guys lasted, man, because I tell you, man, this neighborhood was terrible. Although it had a huge mob influence, like, if anybody asked you about the Greenpoint-Williamsburg section. There's many famous mobsters that have come out of this area. I mean, he had Sonny Francie's, who his son, Michael Franciees, has got the big podcast in the mob genre. He was from Greenpoint neighborhood.

Jimmy Knapp, who was one of the biggest bookmakers in the whole country. You know, he was with the West Side. I mean, the list just goes on and on over how many wise guys and how this place was, you know. It's maybe still got some of the remnants, but, you know, when you walk out side, me and you weren't ducking shots on Hevermeyer Avenue. You know, my father, I got two very distinct memories of violence growing up. Not violence. One violence and one, I guess, I don't know what you would call it.

New York City the way it was back then. Let's just call it that, whatever, right? Things that were normal back then that we really wouldn't consider normal now. So it happened to be in the both neighborhoods. One way out front and flushing and one over here. It was two times I was in the call with my father. So the first time, whatever, there was a mob-connected pizzeria, and it was right in my neighborhood.

That guy, actually, I'll tell you a story about it later. So there was a high school with all these young kids or whatever. Always used to cause problems or whatever. We'd have neighborhood fights with them later on, but it was a little bit before I was still young. And I don't know what they did in the pizzeria, these two kids or whatever, and there was a fucking knife fight, right? I was in the car.

I must have been like seven. And my father, yeah, I was like, I was young. And my dad was like, look, look, they got knives. And they came out and the guy was a pizzeria guy, you know? He had like his apron or whatever, you know, and he had like a thing. And the kid had a knife and they were having like a fucking knife fight. Yeah. That was a mob connected pizzeria.

Oh, wow. And then another time, here in this neighborhood, driving that on Kent Avenue, I was like, Dad, what are these girls? Look. They got like their bathing suits and everything. I'm not thinking. It was all prostitutes. All prostitutes.

So much ass and tits everywhere, bro. This is what Kent Avenue was. Bikers, dead bodies, and prostitutes. He told me, my father, this little strip over here by Havamire and South First, you wouldn't even want to drive down. That's how bad it was. Really?

They would hop in front of your call. It was bad. Really bad. Shake you down. Forget about walking. Wow. Yeah, it was that bad. Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that.

Williamsburg was one of the way. of the most dangerous places in New York City. May possibly the country at one point. That is crazy. All you saw infested with, that's all you heard, infested with mobsters, bikers, and prostitutes and dead bodies, because that old Kent Avenue and stuff was underdeveloped. I saw that development happening little by little. And so what happened?

Like artists came in and they kind of like got studio space and kind of like turned into the little art district. There was like some graffiti kind of thing, like art graffiti and stuff. So when I was hopping around this neighborhood and a couple other neighborhoods, I would work in these mob-connected areas as well. And I saw the influx coming in, and I would listen to the conversations. And the two people usually, that's why I made a lot of connections too, because the two people that know the most about you are usually what,

your hairdresser and your bartender. You tell them everything. Maybe you're a coward. You know what I mean? So it's like those people, so people would spill their guts to me. As a bartender. As a bartender, right? So after Bus Boy, I worked my way up.

Maybe left that out of the story. But now I was hopping around. Now I wasn't only under my uncle. Now I was making my own connection and going to the other spot. Like I said, Rockies and all these other people. Like, yeah, they knew I was, but I was doing my own thing now. I was hopping. I was bartending at a spot in Hell's Kitchen,

which was the old Westies neighborhood or whatever, right next to a spot called Mickey Spillains, who was the Irish Westies mob boss or whatever. You know? So it was like a lot of history or whatever of all that. I'm working as a bartender. and there was a lot of influx of, we call them yuppies, hipsters, you know? People like me, you can just say.

I mean, you're not so bad. You're late, bro. You're a laggard in this whole thing. These motherfuckers were trailblazers. So what is it? They're the hipsters? You're the yuppies? Yeah, exactly.

Those are my OGs. The hipster mob boss. So there was a couple and they would throw parties, you know, and that's what I love to do most. I would love to do the catering bartender. It was just way better for me. I didn't have to sit there and count money and all that stuff. People just want your tips, cash and stuff. So there was a lot of artists, like you said, and the film industry.

That's what started to bring things over here. Restaurant, film, and artists, because, no, the artists come and the restaurant film follow. That's what I think. There was always a lot of good salad restaurants here, but you really saw all these little boutique things pop up. And who loves these boutique fucking things? Yo, your people. White. Listen, I like it too.

Don't get me wrong. It was good. Nice to see some of these spots, you know? Like, I saw them coming in. Like, it's a little weird. It's not really for this neighbor. But yeah, I'll try it out, whatever, you know. Like, I don't know.

Just a barbecue joint in general. Like, we didn't have, like, Texas barbecue here. You know what I mean? And I'm not talking about, like, Texas Roe? I'm not like a legit barbecue spot. Another spot on the corner. That's great. Or whatever?

Still here? Yeah. Yeah, they were good, man. When they first came, they were one of the only ones. Like, a lot of these restaurants you've seen that were established in, like, 2010 or 11, I've been to all of them, every single one. In Williamsburg, I've visited them all. Wow.

Wow. It was my spot as my stomping ground. Wow. Yeah, man. Were there ever any, like, fights at these, like, connected things you had to do? Like, as a bartender, you ever to get, like, active? I never had to put my hands on anyone. That's for sure.

But they had, I've had to break up fights, you know, or lay down the law, you know, like smack your hand on the bar or whatever to try to, like, calm situations down, you know. I think that prepped me as well, you know, for going into law enforcement because I've seen a lot of shit like that or whatever, like rowdiness, you know, and I knew how to deal with drunk people. You know what I mean? I know how, you know, to deal with them. You know what I mean? I got a fucking Mexican father and Irish uncle. You know what I mean? I'm very skilled in dealing with, I know how to maneuver around drunk people. And I myself used to partake a lot in the alcohol. So it's like, you know, I understood them. You know what I mean? Like some. Dr. Some people just want their way sometimes, you know? And sometimes you can't give them your way, but you're selling the facade that they get their way. And that ends a lot of fights. So I think that's what I would do. I would go to diplomatic approach. Sometimes you can't.

It was one time, union guy and bikers fucking started fighting each other, like in the parking lot. Yep. Just straight up fucking, I don't know what happened. He must have said something to one of the guy's wife, whatever. These guys were in their colors. They were at a party on one side. and the other guys were like in suit, the union guys. It was a fucking battle.

That's crazy. And you just lock the door and watch out the window type of shit? I'm just watching on. I locked the door. I'm just watching like, what the hell? The good thing, a lot of the times when you're in a joint that's popular or something like that as the cops come like this. You know?

That makes sense. I never really had to break up any kind of like brawls or anything like that. And I wasn't a bodyguard. So if I saw a brol, I just let it go on until, you know, until the end. the proper authorities come and address it. That makes sense. That could have been, you know, the fucking guy that's loading the seafood or whatever.

He's a big duty. He could have did it. Yeah. Now, you would mention a little bit before, like there's a biker gang presence in New York City. Like, you kind of hear about it back in the day. You don't really think of New York City as like a biker spot. Like, in my opinion,

I don't know. I think about like west coast, like biker gangs when I think of, you know, like bikers and shit. But you said that you had seen that a little bit in New York. Can you explain, like, what that is, like who's involved, what kind of hustles they would run? I've seen, I think all the major players have,

a clubhouse here in New York City. Oh, really? I'm pretty sure. I know the pagans have one. The angels have one. Now, I was surprised to see this because going back to West Coast or whatever, you know, the Mongols and the Hells Angels, they, like, got this bitter rivalry. I saw a bunch of Mongols hanging out in Astoria just like two years ago in front of Basureros,

like that Colombian restaurant lined up. When the hell did you ever see Mongols on the East Coast? Yeah. That's interesting. So I'll tell you why. If you want to know. So I have a friend of mine. who is a, I'd call him a drug detective.

You know, I don't want to give his exact title. So he said that the Hells Angels have dominated the East Coast for Soloom, but they want the Mongols' drug connections, so they let them start coming into the territories east. Oh, wow. Because they're, all the Mongols, a lot of them are Mexican, so they got direct lines to cartels. So I think the angels kind of saw the writing on the wall.

This is my opinion. But they saw the writing on the wall as if, like, whoever controls the drugs controls the streets. And if they control the fuck, you know what I mean? They're going to buy more power, influence guns, whatever else, and we're going to get knocked out. So they kind of like made the piece of. So on this side, they kind of got to squash it a little bit.

I think, though, like these biker guys, though, they are the organized crime of today for the most part, you know. I think a lot of them, like the Hells Angels, it's weird. Like, you know, they're branded. Like, they'll actually take you to trademark court if you use their stuff. Really? Yeah. Oh, wow.

You didn't know that? I had no idea. Yeah. They're like legit gangsters, I guess you would say. Like running like a business. It's a business. It's actually trademarked and everything, the Hells Angels. So it's like they have this reputation of being these outlaws or whatever,

but they look pretty legitimate to me. And you know they do outlaw shit. Wow. Now, do you think there's any more of like the five families that we always hear about, right? Like the Kosso Nostra or whatever. Like does that still exist in New York City at its present? I think so, a thousand percent. And in what way?

Like, how could it exist? Like, do they still, like, gambling is now federally, I mean, state legalized, you know, weed is legalized. Like, drugs are kind of decriminalized. Like, I don't know if they're doing, like, extortion rackets or if they ever did do that. Like, what is the money-making operation now? So I think now as far as, you have to think about this generationally. All the crimes that you have just listed are more crimes that you do when you're trying to come on the come-up.

Like the drugs and all that stuff, you know, like the petty. crime trying to get it all up. Most of the mobsters now, they're not in street scrapping. They come from neighbors like Howard Beach or whatever. Generational money. The generations get watered down. And it's generational crime money, but it's still generational

money. So you don't really have to do those things that you did before. So that kind of falls into the hands of other organized crime groups that are very hungry. The Albanians, the Minicans, the Syrians, the Jamaicans, Guyanese, whatever. So the traditional mob rackets like extortion and loan sharking and bookmaking,

I don't really think they'll ever go away. Because when you go to the bank, you got to do a credit check, you got to do this, you got to do that or whatever, you know, nobody's going to want to do that. And when you borrow,

or let's say when you bet with, I don't know what you bet with, MGM, Cesar's, whatever you bet with or whatever, you got to have that money up front. It's going to go on your tax of this and that. A wise guy's not going to ask you for a 1099. Interesting.

You know what I mean? And loan insurance. You know, some people just, you might have a lot of money and just, you got shit credit. It might not qualify for a loan or whatever and you need somebody with some money. But as far as the generations being watered down from the crime, I think they just gotten a little bit more sophisticated. Construction. The mob is heavy in construction.

Everybody knows that. There's unions, you know, things like that. Do they still control the importation of drugs? I mean, maybe to a point, but I think that's more concentrated on the Italian side, you know, like not American Italian mafia, more like mafia from Italy. And they have no rules. They do whatever. They blow up politicians and all that stuff over there.

Yeah, they don't play no games. So, I mean, the traditional rackets as far as that. And a lot of them have been sophisticated now where they get into a lot of white collar crimes, you know, like stock, a lot of pumping dumps. That's huge. You hear a lot of guys talking about that. Oh, interesting. Yeah, that they get until they set up these phony companies and all that kind of stuff.

Interesting. Yeah. I'm always so curious about that. like how it manifests now, you know what I mean? Like, was the extortion racket thing ever a thing that the five families are doing the city? Like, go to a business, be like, hey, you need protection, da-da-da-da. Like, you see it in movies, but... If I told you today that every single business pays an extortion, would you believe me?

No. Okay. So I'm going to explain something to you. The mob, like I said, got sophisticated. They're no longer going to send someone to, and, you know, And I've never said this on camera, and I wasn't going to say it, but I'm going to. They've never, they don't need to hire someone to break your windows anymore and say, shit, you know, you're getting your windows broken. Don't worry, I'll take care of it.

You'll give me $100. I'll make sure nobody touch you the spot. They're not coming to you like that no more. They're coming to you with legitimate companies, community associations, you name it, whatever. You know, that a business improvement district, whatever it is that they'll come with or whatever, under the, the guys of you pay us a thousand bucks a year and you're a part of us

you're a part of the association where's my money going to what what am I getting for that? What? What? For what? Just to be a part of it? You know? The mob has legitimized itself in a way to do illegitimate shit

you know? It's nothing else. The same old thing they've been doing it's just like a loophole I guess you know what I mean? Think about it. Why we just send some kid to break somebody's windows and the guy got to get up all so a thing and then they maybe start investigate and this and that whatever no why don't you just set up a company whatever that's like a neighborhood watch and now whatever like every business pays so you don't want to be ostracized so you'll pay too and it's like oh okay you know make sure your garbage gets picked up on time the oil

guys come all this stuff what you call that friendly exhaustion or what you got to pay the fucking thing no matter what and sometimes you don't even it's already uh in the lease oh wow yeah they go to the landlord first because he just want his shit fucked up there you go So what happens if you're like, no, I'm good? I don't want to join. I don't think it's worth it. I don't know. You'll have to find that out.

I can't answer that. Fuck. Yeah. Oh, that's wild. Different things happen. I mean, they're not killing people anymore. But they got other ways of getting their get back. They're not killing people anymore or whatever, but you could get hurt or you could get

financed. If they use those same tactics that they used back in the day, you're like, oh, the mom's going to break your legs. It's like, well, they'll cripple you financially somehow or something. You know what I mean? lawyers and they got all the legal, they know the legal loopholes better than anyone. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick

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You always hear about that, like, you know, being mobbed up. Is it still that way in New York City? I don't know if it's completely mobbed up now. I know at one point it was, of course. But, I mean, how can you really judge it? I mean, like, what are you going to say? Like, every guy who owns a garbage truck with an Italian name, you're going to just assume, you know, it's like everything else.

Is there always? organized crime involved in the carting industry? Yes. Now, is it just the mob? No. Like I said, a lot of the rackets that they gave up gave way to these other criminal organizations to kind of rise to prominence. The Albanians, the Syrians, the Dominicans, they're huge. I mean, Dominican control all the Washington Heights in the Bronx as far as businesses, the gambling, the drugs. They're huge. The Russians control a lot of Brooklyn, you know, the Albanians, they got spots in Queens. They got spots in the Bronx. I mean, you heard the stories about the quote-unquote six family, the Rudae organization, the Albanian mob that took

on the Italians back in like the early 2000, late 90s, early 2000s. Wow, I never heard that. They went to war. They went into certain spots in Queens and Astoria. It was a spot called soccer fever. It's very well-known story. The guy goes in there or whatever and fucking pistol whips the guy or whatever, and it's like, this is my spot now, took the game, robbed the game.

It's a known Lucchese gambling spot. Albanians went in there and took it over. And in the Bronx or whatever, they took one of the guys He was a Gambino, I think, or his name was Gambino But he was definitely connected. He might have been a Lucchese guy, I'm not sure. But they beat the shit out of him And took his wallet or whatever, left him in the underwear

In the street, whatever, and put the locks on his coffee shop And said, this is ours now. Whoa. If you look at most of the little Italy section in the Bronx, it's all Albanian. They've completely taken over. So, I mean, that's where I think that when you were asking me before,

does the mob still control this? Yeah, a mob still controls it, but it's not the Italians anymore. That is fascinating. Now, you know a lot about, like, Sinatra and, like, his mob connections. Yeah. I watched that episode that you did. Like that one? That was, like, my most successful video.

Not a lot of people know about that story. It's wild. So, like, I knew a little bit. I actually had a guy on the show recently that his name is Thomas Mayor, Mezier. Okay. I don't know exactly pronounced the last name. He's a journalist that covered the story of when the CIA sort of worked with Giancana and Rosselli to try to try.

to take down Castro. Right. And it's the most insane story, but part of the story is that Giancana was tight with Sinatra. And obviously Sinatra performing and all these mob spots. And as a singer, you got to work in, you know, lounges and nightclubs and all of those, especially back in that time, we're all mobbed up. So you got to be tight with these guys. And they apparently, according to the story, again, I don't know if this is necessarily

true. Giancana had tried to introduce Kennedy to a woman named Judith Campbell. Judith Campbell was like a starlet back in the day. and he was kind of dating Judy Campbell and basically he used his connection to Sinatra to introduce Judy Campbell to President JFK to try to get like a little blackmail, a little a shared relationship, so to speak,

that if that went public could become very detrimental to his political career. So Sinatra was part of the whole ring that made that happen. And so that was the first time I'd ever heard like, oh shit, Sinatra was like, you know, deep with these guys. Oh, yeah. But you have some stories that are like pretty crazy that, uh, that Sinatra had even deeper ties.

Could you share it? Can you share that one? Sure, sure. So, uh, Sinatra's career basically was backed by the mob. I mean, everybody knows. You had mentioned Sam Jan Connor or whatever. Judy Campbell wasn't the only connection. And you missed the most famous one, Marilyn Monroe.

Right. That was his gumato, whatever. That was like his girlfriend or whatever. But she was also banging a president. So you don't think that a little pillow talk or whatever that she maybe had mentioned something or maybe she played both sides who knows so there's a lot of rumors that the mob had her killed who knows maybe she outstayed her welcome but frank sinatra was like the male version of that you know what i mean delivering messages between families or whatever obviously he's a young

italian singer whatever a lot of people loved him his good looks and his giddy charm you know like i say so you know he was very popular you know so they needed a star attraction they talk about this the godfather, they think, like, oh, he'll be this great star attraction or whatever. So Sinatra, he's got friends all over the place at this point, but his rise to power was kind of facilitated by the Fichetti brothers. They were brothers connected to the Chicago outfit. So through there, whatever was where I think he kind of got his rise to stardom and then his Vegas and all the movies that started coming after. The problem with Sinatra, although he was around guys like he was performing at the...

something premiere theater that used to be Greg De Palma's spot, somebody will look it up, I forgot the name, Hollywood premiere, or maybe something like that, was in Long Island or whatever. Greg De Palma was also very close with Sinatra. He's the guy that got caught up in the recent bus, like, well, I say recent, 20 years ago, was the Jack Garcia, the big fat guy that went undercover, I was telling you what to do

to his life or whatever. So, you know, that guy was around Sinatra, and if you look at all the pictures that I had put actually on that video, a lot of people I haven't seen him, Sinatra's pictured with Michael Spilatro, who was Tony Spalatro's brother, who have you seen the movie Casino, Joe Pesci played him. He ran Las Vegas. Sanatra's in a picture with him. He's got a picture with the Fichetti brothers.

There's so many pictures of Sinatra's with mobsters. There's one famous picture when he's with Carlo Gambino and Greg the Palmer and all these really big wigs in the mafia. So he kind of was under the, I don't know if you would consider him an associate. He was definitely connected, but it all went to his head. So one day, I want to say, he also was a part owner in the Cal Never. That was the casino right on the border of California and Nevada that he was partnered with, supposedly with, Sam Jancona. That was one of Frank Sinatra's places.

So Sinatra had this aura about him. Listen, if you're connected to that many guys or whatever, you yourself, I guess, start to believe that you are a mafios. You know what I mean? like you deserve the same respect that they do. So like I was saying before, it's not only the Italian mafia, it was the Jewish mafia, the Irish or whatever, so it was a really prominent Jewish gangster at the time. It was also from the Mayfield Role Mob gang, Carl Cohen. He was like the manager.

So something happened with Sinatra. He was being a diva, and I heard he was terrible. If you read his book, My Way by Paul Anka and then His Way by Kitty Kelly, Kitty Kettle, or Kitty Kelly, I think her name is. they talk about how bad Sinatra was when he drank. He just had that aura about he thought it was a god. He had that godlike feeling. I can get away with whatever I want until one night.

When he's in the coffee shop at the dozen end, and he runs into this Carl Cohen, who's a Jewish mob that connected to the whole syndicate, the Mario Lansky, that whole thing back in the day. And he thinks that he can talk shit to Carl Cohen and eventually throws coffee on Cohen. Cohen stands up. knocks Sinatra's teeth out.

Cohen had a reputation for this because he knocked out the El Rancho's teeth, the owner. The owner of the El Rancho, he knocked him down or something like that too. Belden Kettleman. There's a story about that. So Cohen's no slouch. Cohen's a real mobster. But now you're hitting a guy like Frank,

this could be a problem for a lot of people. Frank puts a lot of money in a lot of people's pocket. He's very connected. Cohen did what he had to do. It's a huge sit-down about it. Sanacho wanted Cohen dead. He wanted to kill him. He went to people to try to put a contract on Cohen.

The mob told Sinatra, basically, nothing's going to happen to Cohen. Behave yourself. You can be connected to these guys, but you can put your hands on them. You can't do anything.

That totally passed everything. So that, in its own sense, shows how much of a gangster Sinatra was. He just was playing. He was just connected. When he actually went up against a real mobster, he was told. They told him,

Don't ever go near him again. Don't ever go near a car car and again. And from that night on, Sinatra didn't perform in the desert anymore. He went across the street to the Sands. They bought the contract with $25,000. Wow. And that's how the Sands Casino became what it was. Wow.

That's crazy. Yep. Do you think that happens, like has that happened since? Like, Sinatra was such a big star. Like it'd be the equivalent of like Taylor Swift. Like being, you know, it's like he was massive at the time, specifically in that community, you know, being an Italian dude from New Jersey. Martin and the rap pack and Sammy Davis Jr.

I mean, they were trans. The one thing I got to say about Sinatra, he was a pioneer for civil rights. Like, there was a couple stories that I talked to about people in Las Vegas, like, when it was like all whites and all black hotels. He's like, Sammy's coming with. He's like Sammy's with me or I'm not going in. That was stand up. Yeah, stuff. But the fact that that could happen where he's like so interconnected with the mob is pretty wild.

Do you think that has happened since, like, through like the 80s and 90s? Oh, yeah. I mean, look at all these guys that are coming out now on YouTube telling their stories. like Dom Sicali, Mikey Scars, and Sammy the Bull and Michael Francis even says it himself. They own roulette records. That was, I forgot the Jewish guy's name, whatever,

that, God, but Korki Vestola, whatever. He was a main member in the DeCalvo Cantys or whatever. You know, he was, that was actually the family that Virgil was made in. We'll go back to talking about that. They were out in Jersey. They were, like, kind of the basses for the Sopranos a little bit like that.

And he owned, Morris Levy. He owned roulette records with Morris Levy. Morris Levy was a front boss. The roulette records, who Sonny Francie's, his father had a piece of, they all had pieces of. So you're telling me that those artists, and this is after Sinatra, right? I guess they started in the duop, but now we're going, we're talking 70s 80s. Sinatra's already probably old by then, right? So it's like you're pushing.

Sinatra was probably at his height in the 50s 60s. So now you're talking 70s, 80s, you're talking a different group. All those guys that you see Rhodes, I don't know who was signed to Roulette records, but if you look them up, I guarantee the mob had a hand in. pushing them through. Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's like, the mob, it seems like they like to have sort of like public figures associated with them. Right. You know what I mean? Like not, not necessarily like, I think it's both ways though. Yeah, of course. Right. Like these, you know, big musicians, they like to have muscle, like that protection, like to have guys around them. Look at the guys.

It transcends. Not only the Italians, look at the black dudes, the rappers, you know. Shug Knight and all those guys in West Coast or whatever. He was a gangster. He was a blood. They have all these blood. They have all these bloods with them. The guys from New Orleans, Little Wayne and all those guys, they're all gang members. You know, they're always throwing some blood stuff or something. Yeah, so even if they're not in it, they're connected to it. And you kind of have to be, it seems like. Rappers, musicians, actors, superstars, they run in the same circles. Just like moths and cops in those neighborhoods. It's like, it's just where you hang out. It's just what it is. Yeah. So it's kind of you want to be around it or you just around it and that's it, you know?

I've heard this thing, like, whenever they make movies, like they make like sopranos or they make like, you know, the godfathers. They have to almost do like a street. tax. Like they have to like work kind of with the mob to like make these films and stuff like that. Do you know anything about like how that relationship works where you have like these Hollywood, you know, sort of like writers and directors and producers that live a very regular civil life? But then they also have to be in close contact with, you know, criminals and people that are involved in like real violence. Do you know how those relationships work? Have you heard stories about that? Well, it usually goes back to what I was telling you with the Patsy Conti story on how he's a known mobster who's on a fucking board of director. for a huge international supermarket chain. You know what I mean? It's almost like you have to do business with them in a way because they're so entrenched. You know what I mean?

So if you're not really used to it, I mean, I don't know if I'm getting your question fully, but if you know that they're already there, you're going to have to do business with them anyway. I've heard you had to pay them to, like, tell the story. I mean, doesn't that go more like around the unions, I would say? Like, I don't know. Like, you know, they control the unions too.

You know what I mean? so maybe if you don't pay them, they'll just tell the guys the stage hands or whatever, don't show off of work, no lighting or whatever, you know? I know that was happening during the Godfather when they were filming, they said that. Oh, wow.

And even construction projects, and the mob's not immune from that either because, you know, Sammy the Bull was talking about this or whatever on his podcast. He said that in certain neighborhoods or whatever, when they used to build in these rough areas with the black and Spanish people, whatever that were there, whatever,

they would go to just like the local guy. Instead of like somebody fucking up the job or stealing this and that, they would go to like the local, gang leader, whoever controlled that neighborhood and be like, we're going to pay you. Just make sure nobody loses the thing. And forget it. That guy was so happy he was getting paid.

He would really make sure that nobody was touching anything. Not only was it his neighborhood, but now he's got this responsibility on a big project. It just went through the roof. That makes sense. Yeah. I didn't realize the mob. Do you think the mob still is controlling unions today in New York City? Yes.

I don't know about controlling, but they have heavy influence. And how would that work? Like, I always figure the unions were like, I don't know, like close with like the government. I don't really know how the unions work, to be honest. I don't want to get into too many specifics, but there are a lot of organized... And it doesn't have to be Italian. Like I said, when we talk about organized crime today,

I'm not really speaking about Italian for the most part. Like, they're still around or whatever, and they're very powerful or whatever, but there's so many groups that have come up that are so powerful, and they are legitimate... Like I said, you know, Dominican's uptown. Everybody knows or whatever that they control everything up there from legitimate business to illegitimate business.

Taxicab companies, restaurants, months, they call it the home of the haze when I was growing up. I mean, they're still selling the best weed up there. You know what I mean? It's a known spot to find drug connections, like big drug connections for whatever powders or whatever you're dealing with. So it's like, these guys are around and it's just changed faces. You know what I mean?

It's not like they're going anywhere. They're still here. So as far as controlling unions, there's definitely still some influence, but they're not controlling it the way they did under Jimmy Hoffa or anything like that. That makes sense. Now, as far as, like, Giuliani's sort of, like, you know, approach to the mob and, like, putting in all the RICO's and stuff like that, does that still affect mobs today and, like, organized crime today in the same way that it did when they took down all the guys, you know, when Giuliani was in charge? Oh, yeah. Oh, a thousand percent.

I think now whatever, I don't know if they're really building as many RICO's against the Italian mob or just organized crime in general. What you're seeing now or whatever is they're using that against a lot of the gang members, you know, like the young dog or whatever, you know, I'm not too familiar with the case, but I heard they get me. hit with Rico. They don't look like the typical mobsters. I would look like that we would expect to be getting charged in Rico. You know what I mean? So I think today, you know, between the five families and the other ethnic gangs that are coming in, like the Albanians and the Sergians and whatever else I mentioned, I think that they, you know, they've kind of set their foothold to where they've established themselves to where they really don't need to, you know, do anything. I don't want to say anything outlandish or whatever,

but the influence is there and they aren't going anywhere. You know what I mean? It's kind of just molded. They're not killing people anymore, like you said, but they're still entrenched in pretty much every business. That makes a lot of sense. Now, you would mention this guy Virgil, right? And you had said he became made.

So when we were talking about his French connection days... And again, could you just clarify Virgil's relationship with your uncle again? He's related to my uncle. Got it. Their grandmothers or cousins or something like that. but it was first contact when he came over. You know what I mean? In that day, the 70s, whatever,

if you weren't around a mobster or this and that, whatever, it was probably a tough life for you because they controlled the city. You couldn't do anything. I think that's what the difference is. They had a complete grass. Now the grass is loosened up, but it's kind of spread to other ethnic groups and other people.

The Chinese, like I told you, whatever, they took over a lot of rackets as far as gambling and they control all the pot that comes in in the in the in the in the in the country so it's like they're here you know what I mean you know what I mean they're still here you know they're organized crime and they're still here so back to um um you'd ask me the the relationship or whatever yeah and how and how Virgil got made and his will come up so you know he was actually a phone man if you ever seen the movie goodfellas remember when he's running around with the phone or whatever you know he was supposedly a phone man for jigs for alano

and he was one of the biggest bookmakers at the time. He was part of it with Ruby Stein, who was the biggest bookmaker in the country, I think, at the time. He had allegiances to the West Side, the Genevievees as well, but the Irish mob, the Westies cut his head off. Ruby Stein, yeah. And they took his black book. So when that happened, Jigs Falano kind of,

he got demoted to, I believe, a soldier or whatever, you know, so I don't really know what happened with him and Virgil from that point, but Virgil was still running gambling for him. Somewhere along the line, I'm guessing, between the 60s or somewhere like that or the 50s or whatever, you know, probably from the neighborhood. He meant Vincent Papa. They eventually became partners and rose to having the French connection.

So when the French connection, and that's not even why he's famous or anything else. So the French connection, when it got busted up and we all saw the movie, in 1972, at 400 Broome Street in Manhattan, New York, New York, 400 Broom Street was the property acrylics office for the NYPD. In 1972, they went to go look for the French connection dope to present before Congress or whatever else, the Senate committee. And when they went, they couldn't find it first. But then when they found it, they saw that there was red spots on the dope.

And they were like, what is this? And they went closer. And they saw there was beetles. Bugs were eating it. Turns out it was sugar. Cain sugar, flour. So Virgil, and this is not proven. This is just suspected.

Virgil, Vinnie Popper. The crew or whatever stole it back. Now there is some proof of it. There's a book out there or whatever that talks about this. People can look for it. I'm not going to say it. But there's a book out there that talk for it or whatever. And Rocco Evangelis, the gentleman that I was telling you that I had conversations with that.

I guess I spoke to the most out of all of them, whatever. It's Rocky. Rocky. Nice guy. He passed away. Rest in peace. He was caught on wiretap. They bugged Virgil's boat.

and he was caught on wiretaps saying I personally made $180,000 from the dope stolen out of the property clerk's office. Something along those lines. Oh, the stolen dope. Wow. Yeah. So the radar was on them,

but they could never prove it. So that was when Virgil Staz really went to, like, infamy. And he was a known enforcer. He's got body. They tracked them to us, I don't know how many bodies. Later on in his life, when the French connection,

he was busted up or whatever, right? The myth, I guess you're not supposed to sell drugs, whatever. I'm guessing somewhere along 75 when he came out in that article, he was still in, he was in jail a lot during the 70s, in and out, in and out. They were trying to bust him for anything. Parole violations. He picked up a phone one time just to say hello, and the guy who called on the other line was a mobster, and they fucking violated.

So it was like they were looking for any little thing thrown back in jail. Going forward, he winds up getting made, I believe, around 77 from my recent. research and he gets integrated into New Jersey D. Cabalcanti family. That's who he's made under. How that happened? I don't know. I'm trying to get in contact with Sammy the Bull. Maybe he knows answering my fucking text, Sammy, you son of a bit. But, you know, no, seriously, I'm trying to reach it. He's probably one of the only people that know this kind of information and the people maybe that do know won't talk. So the only person that's really talking about this or whatever, but he's a Queens guy. He integrates himself. Maybe it's because he had that stigma of

being involved in drugs at such a high level is why they didn't want to make him in the five families. I'm not sure, but the Di Kawakanti family had a faction in Queens and Manhattan, and he integrated with them. And that was how he got made. And then later on, he was still with the bookmaking, but he was a well-known enforcer. Wow. There's a story. And later in the years, in the 80s, when he gets out of jail, I don't know why I'm drawing a blank on it or whatever. whatever, but people look up the story. He has a heart attack while he's on a hit. He's with the Genevievee's guy and he's with someone else or whatever.

And this is a newspaper article about it. I just have to refresh my memory. I got so much stuff on my head. But somebody actually recently spoke about this or it came out. But Virgil was waiting for him in the garage. Do you remember when John got, he sent someone to bust up the union guy? I think his name was John O'Connor or something like that. The guy who did it, I guess, messed up.

I forget his name. I don't know why I'm drawing a blank. Anyway, they lured this guy to a garage, and Virgil was there waiting for him and killed him. And while he killed him, he had a heart attack. And he had to take him to the hospital. Oh, shit. That was like one of the last hits he on.

He died later on in 98 from like heart complications. He had a bad heart. Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. So, I mean, his story is crazy. A guy that started as a phone in the world of organized crime.

He started as a form. man, then, you know, gambling, then the French connection, then stealing it back, then known enforcer, connected to all the five families in a way, you know, and I got more stories by him that they're coming out on my podcast, you know, I'm trying to, uh, nobody really knows about him too much, you know, and he was the inspiration for Virgil Suluzzo and the godfather. Yeah. It was like him and Vinnie Popper maybe mixed together, but that's, that's who he was. He was like an independent guy of his own thing.

And if you see pictures of him, he just looks like in the book, it says, like, you're Typical MGM 1950s mobsters, like white suit, press to a tea. My uncle used to tell me he had the cigarette holder, gold one, pop it open. Like, class, class, not a piece of shit in the street, class. Wow. Did he ever write a book? Did he write anything down? Are you fucking nuts?

No way, bro. You got to never talk or whatever. These guys are probably pissed that I'm talking about. I only waited for my uncle, you know, to pass away to actually say some of these stories. Because me and him used to talk a lot. If you saw my uncle, maybe he smiled twice in his whole life. You know, he was always very serious, man. Yeah, very serious man.

And everybody knew that. You know, he'd get in a good move once in a while, but he was just stoned face most of the time. And he didn't really talk about any of this stuff to anybody but me. You know, we used to drink a little cognac. I'd go over every Monday. Not every Monday, but some Monday nights he'd invite me out for dinner. You made the best pasta vajal. Oh, my God.

The pasta vazul, forget it. It was amazing. I'd lick the bowl. So we'd go over, we'd have some wine. We'd have some soup or pasta, whatever. and Monday was this thing and break out the cognac and I like to drink

so you know the conversations you could have over and I love to be around old guys like the campfire like this telling the stories and stuff I could sit there all day and listen to the old timers and that's what I used to do

and he would tell me some real good things you know history stuff yeah I didn't really know about Virgil like that as a kid I just knew like he was my father's boss or his dad's boss

go say hello take his hand or whatever oh hello how are you sir you know things like that whatever you know but when I got older you know and the internet came about whatever and you'd hear and I'd be like

ass jeeps you know like things like that and I'd be like I'd never forget one time I think it was like right around the time that cell phones were came around or whatever like you can actually Google something on the phone and it would come up I don't remember maybe it was a Blackberry and I was like uh oh look at this cool I was like uncle Mike look at this cool info I found on Virgil whatever it says he was connected to the Gambinos he He fucking read me the riot act or whatever.

And if you've ever been yelled at by an old Italian man, you know exactly what I'm talking about or whatever. I was just put my head down and was like, holy shit. What the fuck are you doing? What are you doing? Why are you looking at yourself? What are you asking us so many questions? He went nuts on me or whatever.

And I was like, oh, shit. I was like, sorry. I was like, I don't know. I just looked it up or whatever. I didn't realize. And then when I started researching, that's why I didn't, like, idiot. I said that like out loud in front of everybody.

Like, do it. Oh, my God. Look at this. That's when you learn to keep your mouth shut. That you're like, that was the moment. I knew to keep my match up before that, but I just thought it was, I thought it was like okay to say.

And it's never okay to say with those guys. Like all these things now, like I said, is because they passed away and this history will die. Like, look, you're a guy who comes very often to Williamsburg, you have your studio, you're in Brooklyn a lot, or whatever, right? You would never know about any of this stuff, you know?

Forgotten streets, just, things just wiped up in history and gone. So it's like, if you don't, kind of keep this stuff alive, you know, it's like, eh, and me, I'm into it. Not only did I see it, but when you start going down those rabbit holes, you know, you know, there's my family. Yeah, like, oh my God, I remember that guy. And then, like, things start clicking you when you're older, like hearing things as a kid of stories. And then, like, my dad would have newspaper articles.

And I'd be like, did you know this guy? And he'd be like, yeah, I knew him. That's Joe or whatever. And it'd be like the guy Joe just got shot in the head or whatever during a Colombo war. Yeah, it was like things like that or whatever, you know. And I'd be like, damn, I can't believe, like, this was, like, a kind of a part of us, you know? And then as I grew up, I started watching, like, the A&E documentaries, Bill Curtis or whatever. So, you know, I mimic my channel a little bit off to that, like, crime noir.

Like, let's find out, like a detective series. Double indemnity, you ever seen that from the 40s? No. It's a real good film or whatever. It's, uh, if people know what I'm talking about, it's like a crime detective film. Yeah. It's a little inspiration from my channel as well. So who was at these dinners?

Like, these, like, these, like, Italian Monday Night Cognac dinners. Like was it just Virgil? Was it where there? No, no, no, Virgil wasn't at those dinners. The Monday night dinners was more like when I got older and I could talk with my uncle as an adult. Ah, I see, I see. Right, right, right.

So the time that I would say that I spent with like Virgil and Rocky and those guys or whatever, like with my family during family events. So it was like Christmas, July 4th was a big deal. July 4th, we hung out a lot. Christmas Eve. Trying to think like Memorial Day, Barbecues, stuff like that. It was when I was kind of like guaranteed to see them and hang out with them and run around with their kids and know what that.

Oh, that's cool. Can you explain the allure of John Gotti? Like, I'm obviously familiar with him through pop culture and kind of the things that like most people kind of know. But as far as like what his role was in sort of like Italian organized crime and like why he's so respected. He didn't care who he was. He didn't try to hide it. you live life on his terms, you did whatever he wanted to do.

If you're going to do something, try to be the best at it. That's my motto. And for me, I don't think he was the best gangster, but he was one of the best to do it in regards to the way he flaunted it, the way he carried himself, just his demeanor. You know, he was almost godlike. And most of the guys that you'll talk to that around him,

he just had that aura. There's certain men that you'll meet that have that, that charisma and that personality where you follow them. A lot of them are dictators. A lot of them are bad people, but they have it, and he had it. Interesting. So he just happened. If he was a politician, he could have been president.

If he worked for Ford, he'd be the CEO. You understand? Those kind of people, that was him. And people want to follow him. People want to follow him. They respect. He had balls. He had charisma.

He was tough, smart, moneymaker, you know, and just his whole rise to it all. And he was also super connected. He had like the assimilated rank of captain before even being a made guy. Wow. That's the kind of pull he had. He was running like the Fatigo Club, I think, before he was even made. He was almost like a prodigy in a way. He was like a prodigy.

People would talk about like how he would go certain places, how he was going to be destined to be the top. Funny story with John Gotti and Virgil. When this is in Al Diarco's book, they forgot the name of Al Diarco. He was a boss on the underboss in the Lucas. Casey crime family recent during the Vic and Gas, the whole mob wars going on in Brooklyn during the 90s, he flipped. And there's a section when nobody can believe that Paul Castellano got killed. And the first person to say had to be John Gotti was Virgil.

Oh, wow. It's stated in Al Di Arco's book. It's like everybody else read like the book goes on or whatever. Al is in shock, everybody in, you know, wherever he is, MDC or whatever, you know, everybody and the concessants according to New Jersey drug dealer gangster, but he wasn't from Jersey. It was something that the book got wrong. He was from

Queens. But they probably thought he was from Jersey because he was made with the Di Gavocontes. So they're like, in the book, they're like, everybody was in shock. The whole Mafia row and all those guys were like, holy shit, like the boss got whacked or whatever. And the person to say had to be John Gotti was Virgil. Wow. So they obviously knew

each other. Interesting. I don't know the extent of the relationship, but my father met Gotti. Oh, really? Yeah. He would like come by the restaurant kind of situation. Yeah, I got a great story. I think I might have saved this one, though. I'll keep it. You'll have to bring me back maybe for that one.

Or we can check it out in a corruption connection. I'm waiting for a guest. Sammy. Sammy was talking to my father, face to fake, having a conversation while John Gotti was there. And something happened. And I want Sammy to confirm it. And if he confirms it or whatever, it'll be a great story. Oh, wow.

Yeah. I know it's true because multiple people have told me it. And there was all the game, it was a meeting. It was tons of Gambino guys there, tons of DiCapocante guys. It was during, everybody thinks that the merger happened. There was like a peace talk or a merger or something like that where Godi went to the boss, John Reggie at the time. It told him to stop making guys in New York and all this stuff.

Some people say it happened at a funeral, but I know that it happened at a meeting at a restaurant. Wow. And not a lot of people know that. And Sammy was there and Sammy knows it. I don't know if there's anybody else around that maybe you can confirm it. But my father was talking with Sammy and something happened or whatever. It's funny. It's a good story.

And you got to come back once you get confirmation. I mean, if the guy will answer his emails, yeah. Now, some people would say that the biggest mafia in New York City is the police. We're the biggest gang. We're not the biggest mafia. What's the difference? The feds are the mafia. The feds have that power.

They come and get you wherever you want. You're not safe. NYPD does have a lot of the technology that the feds use, but I think people shit in their pants a little bit more when they hear the FBI is coming for you as opposed to NYPD. Yeah. You know, it makes sense. State, federal, local, federal, you know what I mean?

It's like they'll ask you and you hear local, they're just, hey, whatever. But when it's feds, something serious, those are the big boys, you know? So it's like, same thing with the mob. You might deal with a couple street guys. You might think a guy is made. You might think he's the biggest fucking mob boss ever. He's like the scariest guy in the neighborhood. But he's answering to somebody else.

There's a guy who tells a story about this on one of the podcasts I watch. And he was a reformed gangster with the Gambinos and Queens. And he talks about this gangster called Ronnie One Arm. I think he's alive still. He's in jail. Always had a gun. Everybody thought he was like, yeah, like a shorter arm from an accident or something. So he always had in his pocket.

But he always had a gun on him. And he was like a known big shot from Ozone Park area, a big book maker. a killer, tough guy, all that stuff or whatever. And he answered to people. Supposedly to smaller guys that are still around, I'm not going to say that name, that supposedly beat the shit out of him one day. And everybody thought he was the big, bad mob boss guy.

There's always someone bigger. Somebody behind you. So I'm curious in your time in the biggest gang in New York as a cop. Did you see any corruption? Did you hear any, like, rumors of corruption, like happening internally with, you know, any of the people in a different precinct? Like, oh, this guy's, you know, getting money from this thing. this guy's robbing this guy like were there rumors of that stuff yes so i love when people say

and this is sarcasm too especially cops or whatever like you know oh my god why would somebody risk their career and badge and all they'd work for whatever you know they wouldn't do that whatever and there's another guy who was retired who said this whatever and it kind of makes no sense what he's saying because every day well not every day all right that's exaggerating but every once in a while you'll hear a story of a low-level cop that gets busted doing shit. Guy I got bodyguard. There was a cop who bodyguard. It was a detective, I believe, bodyguard for El Chapo's wife.

He was a cop while on the force. There is a female officer who was connected to a Bronx fentanyl drug trafficking ring. There was a Asian sergeant, or a... detective or whatever who was taking bribes from some of the biggest gambling houses in the 109 you know and that got totally swept under the rug I mean what you see nowadays as far as the corruption is it's maybe not concentrated so much towards the lower level cops because they won't do it on dewy you understand like that girl that was protecting the drug dealers or the couriers she's just showing her shield and thinking she's getting out of shit that's actually how she got

caught because they were already investigating and then when she showed her shield she to throw herself under the bus. That's what I told you. Does that sound like a mafioso? That sounds like a gang or whatever. But if I showed a Fed shield, those fucking cops would run away, right? If I was a Fed and I was protecting the drug guys,

that sounds a little more mafioso to me. Yeah. You know what I mean? So that being said or whatever, you know, you see organized crime. Doesn't have to be mafia or whatever. Just organized crime. Any nationality.

And mostly, you know, I don't know what you would consider because there's so many different ethnic backgrounds and this and that or whatever, but prostitution, gambling, all the stuff, all those vices or whatever

that were supposedly harmful, but they generate a lot of money, you best believe that there is some upper echelon cop brass that is okay with that. Wow. Or is not addressing it.

Wow. So what would you call that? I would call that corruption. Yeah. They all know what's going on in their precincts. I don't want to say that they're going in there, like the old days and getting envelopes and stuff like that or whatever, but favors, that's what you'll see. Favors. It's like I was telling you before with that guy who wasn't nobody and now he's in somebody, that's a favor.

That, to me, is corruption. There's also nepotism, which is very prevalent in the NYPD, and that kind of breeds corruption a little in itself. And it really depends on what you consider corruption. Like are, they would consider what, me taking a cup of coffee or whatever and not putting a $1.25 down at the time, maybe corruption. like, oh, he's going to get corrupted by this guy at a coffee shop because there's not a third, you know? But meanwhile, whatever, you could take a, you could take dinner at Peter Lugar's

or wherever else or whatever with a known organized crime figure or someone who owns the building where the prostitution is taking place. I see. I see. Landlords know the deal. Precinct commanders know the deal. And I know this, whatever,

because I have a friend who's a landlord and he has the precinct commander on his fucking speed dial. So he owns a lot of buildings and when there's a problem, he addresses it. And when there's not a problem, he doesn't address it unless somebody makes a problem about it. You know what I mean? Unless somebody raises the issue. It's like you think that the CEO, the commanding officer, the 125 doesn't know that

one, two five and Lex, oh, the 25 doesn't know that 112 and Lex or whatever is a drug haven that people are dropping like flies left and right, that there's fat and all eyes. they know, they know what goes on. They have a sheet of robbery patent. They study their executives. They go to ComStan. They know all the stuff that needs to be addressed. It depends how much you want to address it.

And then that goes also with the politics. You know what I mean? There's local leaders who don't want you doing stopping frisking their neighborhood, who don't want you busting up that restaurant because his brother-in-law owns it. I would call that corruption. Interesting. Yeah, I think people, especially me, have sort of this, you know, kind of glassy, you know, perspective when it comes.

They're still wet behind the ears. Yeah, exactly, right? You see the law enforcement, you're like, oh, you know, these are good guys. They're helping out. And most of them are, of course. But at the higher levels, there's always some type of scheme happening.

There's always some type of relationship that needs to be preserved. They call it white shirt immunity. That's what they call it. Once you hit that executive rank, you take care of each other, you know? Listen, that is the way it's supposed to be. Don't tell me you wouldn't do it.

Don't tell me I wouldn't do it. Don't tell me I wouldn't do it. You take care of your own. I get it. But at the same thing. time you're supposed to everybody knows politicians are corrupt everybody knows that cops and politicians go to the same dinners are in the same circles you can meet a local leader or whatever in a really bad neighborhood in the precinct commander and they're having the little conversations or

whatever they know what goes on whatever you sell to the public is just a facade we're doing things if people complain otherwise we got other shit to worry about you know look at the mayor he's in me. You know what I mean? He's got other things to worry about. He doesn't have the city to worry about. As long as he gets his free dinners and he take care of him and a couple contractors or whatever else, it's all favorable.

They won't leave traces now because they learned. They learned the way to do it. They perfected the game. The government stole all the secrets from the mob and now the government workers act like mafia people. That's exactly what it is. And as I guess like the legal forces

like the Ricos and things like that come down, people just get better. Like I heard this with like counterfeiting money. Like they would, the FBI would always put out, like the minting service would put out like what to spot to see if something's counterfeit or not. And they would release these big public press releases

like all through the 70s and 80s. And the counterfeiters obviously were looking at it and they got better at perfecting the counterfeits to where you couldn't even tell the difference. And then they stop releasing the discrepancies because they're like every time we put a discrepancy out, then they change it. So I feel like it's the same thing

where you have, you know, crackdowns on organized crime. And as the crackdowns get better and better, they're learning and they're perfecting it to where now there's like no trace, there's no trail, and everyone can kind of work together. That's why the real Italian mob that's still operating is all underground. Everybody says at the west side, the Genevievees, they are the pinnacle of what the mob is supposed to be.

They have no informants, maybe one in the last, I don't know how many years, 20 years or 30, they don't talk. You don't know who's in charge. You don't know who the boss is. You don't know where he operates out of. and you don't even know if he's doing anything legitimate, illegitimate. He's super clean and isolated.

Perfected. So they learn, and they don't kill people anymore. That's what brought a lot of heat down. They have otherwise. But see, that in itself is good and bad because it's good because you legitimize yourself now. Why are you going to kill them? You got a legal business I was telling you.

In association, sue them. You got lawyers now. You put your kids through law school or whatever or something, so sue them, right? but those other ethnic groups they don't think that way they think violence you know Albanians they saw fucking war

Kosovo or whatever these like you know the Yugoslavia war whatever with the Serbians they hate each other it's on site with those guys so do you think like you know they're the ones that took over the street and all that other stuff because the gap is gone because the Italians

or whatever they're not killing people anymore how are you going to be feared if you're not killing anybody go do something to an Albanian they'll kill you probably you know what I mean organized crime you know what I mean but if the Italians they're not really dropping bodies like that. You know, most of the violence now anyway,

the body drop is the gang members. But some of the Italians are supplementing stuff out to the gangs. You've seen that. The Lucchese's were hooked up with the bloods, and a guy from my neighborhood is actually doing 30 years. He contracted one of the bloods to take out somebody. He's with the West Side. Yeah, he grew up right on my block.

And we'll leave it at that. Tony Hernandez. Thank you so much, brother. If you're interested in hearing more crime stories, more mob stories, the noir genre we're talking about, corruption connection, great YouTube channel, awesome Instagram page.

Appreciate it. Is there any of the place people can find you? I'm on TikTok. I'm trying to get the TikTok going as well. So definitely YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. You know, I'm all around Vegas. If you see me, say hello, you know, back in New York. I love it.

Yeah, man. Thank you so much, brother. I really appreciate this. This is awesome. Definitely. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Got a doubt.