Camp Gagnon - First Time Offender Reveals How to SURVIVE Prison

Episode Date: April 24, 2023

Johnny Mitchell, a first time offender who went to federal prison for dealing with the cartel, reveals how he survived jail, smuggled for the shot caller, and more he never mentioned on Flagrant. WELCOME TO CAMP.Thanks to Morgan & Morgan for sponsoring today's episode!Mark Gagnon is our HostWill Schwartz is our Content Producer and Lead EditorSpencer Weinstein & Gabriel Reyes are our Community ManagersKostis Zacho, Gabriel Reyes, & Theodore Bukvic are our Clips Editors

In prison, there are literally in the rulebook ways to appropriately take care of yourself. You're supposed to turn with a blanket over you facing the wall. From the top down, they're like, hey, if you got to do it. It's written in by some bureaucrat from the state capital. Yes. That guy's a hero. We got to get that guy on the line. Because they're all like, no jerking off the prison.

One guy was like, come on. He kind of raises his hand. What if they turned to the side? So I was just smashing the fee fee bag. And this female prison guard, I just see her eyes pop into the window of my cell. I was embarrassed like my mom. just caught me jerking off. And then the next day, I'm like walking by her towards the yard and I just kind of nodded at her and I go, CEO? And she smiled at me. She goes, Mitchell.

This is Johnny Mitchell. You know him from his appearance on Flagrant and his channel The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. He was a multi-million dollar drug trafficker with ties to the Sino Loa cartel. He ended up getting clipped and spent time in federal prison. And today we're talking about how he survived as a first-time offender, how he smuggled drugs, for the prison shock collar and how stand-up comedy got him out of prison. This is just an amazing conversation. Johnny is hilarious and has amazing stories that he actually didn't tell on flagrant or on his channel ever.

Enjoy Johnny Mitchell. Johnny Mitchell. Yes, sir. Marky. What's up, baby? Good to see you, man. You too, dude. Obviously, you came on flagrant, which was dope.

Yeah. Was there a residual from that where people hitting you up? Pussy. Yeah, yeah. I had that flagrant cloud, dog. Go. Yeah, yeah. Now I'm in a relationship.

I love you, sweet. But I'm fucking, I had some residual pussy. Thank you, Andrew. That's fuck, dude, none of us are getting that. All of us are married. You can stop fucking our fans, dude. Yeah, yeah. You have to stop that.

Yeah, I will. I will. My bad, dude. My bad. Yeah, you guys are all married. Yeah. You know, but I think you need that because, like, I can't imagine the DMs. Exactly.

I'm glad you guys are that way. Yeah, stay married, bro. Sorry, you just fucking sweep up the streets. Yeah, dude, but I can't imagine what your DMs, like, if you were a single guy, like Andrew, right? Yeah. With 40,000 followers, I could show you what I'm working with. But if you got millions, it's like you would have no time to do anything else.

Yeah. It could bring a weak man to his knees. Are girls into the, like, not only, you know, you being on extremely prestigious podcast. Yeah. But you also having like a criminal history. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Is it the right type of women? No, it's not a woman you would probably want to settle down with. Yeah. You know, like the girl I'm with now, who I'm in love with, she didn't know. about any of this shit. You're like, that's not what impressed her. She liked you for the jokes. Yeah. Not even that in fact. I think it was the height. Yeah. I got a few things working for me. But yes, there's 5% of women, uh, which is like my fan base. It's like 95% dudes, 5% chicks. Yeah. That are, you know, have some trauma missing a father. Dad might have been in prison.

Who knows what it is. Right. That's unresolved. And they just like, they like a bad boy. And that's because, but that's misplaced. They shouldn't like a bad boy. They should like a bad boy. they should like me for a bunch of other qualities, but they mistake alpha. Yeah. They mistake psychopath for alpha. Do you know what I mean? Because their dad may or may not have been alpha psychopath. Well, but it's what Jordan Peterson talked about.

Like women like an alpha and psychos and sociopaths have this confidence of like an alpha male. They have the charm, the drive. These things that biologically women are attracted to, you know, for mating purposes, right? Yeah, yeah. But young women, especially. mistake those qualities in a psychopath for like a alpha protector. You know what I mean? I feel bad for those dudes that are like, yo, I'm just going to get like a ton of money

and I'm gonna like fucking have all these things that will attract women and then they don't attract the women that they actually are looking for. Right. And then they're like, dude, all these holes aren't. It's like bro, you're- You're- You're attracted women that like vanity. Yeah, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, you're attracting that type of bra. That's the one who's gonna go off and fuck drink. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's good for them. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. But I am who I am first. Like I'm, you know, I pride myself on being this, you know, whatever, whatever I am comes before the money, any kind of cloud I have. You know what I mean?

Like the money never made me. The drug money never made me. I never bought anything, dude. Really? I had a dope apartment in Portland, Oregon. I had a penthouse, right? Overlooking the river. And I had a couple of, let's go.

Bro, that's what it was back then. Yeah, it was like two Gs, right? And I would just. go in, I would rent different spots around Portland furnished, and I just lived out of a suitcase. And I would go, I had no credit, no background to nothing. I remember I'm 23, 24. And everything's basically cash. I would walk in. And this was like around the recession times. So you could pay a landlord like, don't do a background check. Here's six months. Six months rent. Here you go. That happened to my dad one time. So back in the day, my dad was a, so he moved from Montreal.

Okay. To South Florida. Oh, wow. The second he turned 18, he's like, he didn't learn English until he was like 15, 16. And so the second he can like learn English, get out of Montreal, he goes to South Florida. Because like he grew up in the shitty part of Montreal. And it was like, he was dirt poor, like no money. Yeah.

His dad was kind of in prison a little bit. Yeah. And so he's like, bro, there's these Cuban like fucking refugees basically driving Lambo's. That's crazy. So he goes down there and starts managing an apartment. He's been like, like he knows a guy in Montreal that has an apartment. And he's like, yeah, you can live there for free. Yeah.

Just like fix it up. be the landlord, managed all the tenants in the spot. And this is in like Fort Lauderdale, like Surfside. And Pat Manila, you ever heard of him? No. He's like an old like, I don't even know where he's from. Like Colombian, Italian, I don't know. But he was like a drug dude back in the day.

He ended up getting locked up, died in prison, I'm pretty sure. And he did the same shit with my dad. Literally like walks in. My dad never been in drugs ever, never knew anything about this. He walks in one day. Like he's like, hey, Francois, can we talk? And he's like, sure. He knows his history.

little bit. Pat Manila walks in, shuts the door. He's in there where like three other guys. My dad at this point is again, like 20 something. He's just like, what the fuck? And I think he, like my oldest brother's born. Like his wife is upstairs in the unit. My older brother's in there as a baby. And my dad's just like, okay, what's going on, Pat? Closes all the blinds. And he's just like, so look, I'm going to be living here for a while. My dad's like, yes, you are. And then literally gets like a trash bag full of money, drops it on the table. He's like, count this up later. This should be good. Follow up with me in a year.

That was it. Wow. And he had like three units in the building. That was insane money. My dad never seen that money in his life. He literally just like drops it off in a bag. Boom. And so he rented three spots in the building. Pretty much. To hold one to hold the work probably.

One to hold money. One to hold the guns. He didn't ask the workers or whatever. He was like whatever you need. You got the cash. I'm not fucking with you. Like you're good. It's pretty amazing. Like even like people that would call themselves upstanding

citizens squares, like how they change, how money gets them to turns the lever, gets them to move shit. Like, you know, I'm moving into a building owned by a lawyer in Portland and there's no business renting to a guy like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, well, how's six months down sound? And they're like, oh, hey, look it. Turns out your background's fucking squirky clean. Even without, like, my dad's biggest fear, I think was like crime. Like, he knew that this guy had bodies and shit. It was like, he knows where my wife lives. He knows where my kids are. I am whatever you want. But like, even in New York now, you just be like, hey, can I pay three months up front?

For sure. And they're just like, you can beat out the other tenant that's like figuring out the brokrophy. Right, right. But yeah, money will just sway anyone to do whatever. Exactly. Exactly. But yeah, no, that's all I had. It's all I didn't, I lived like the value of money to me was freedom.

That's all that I wanted. You know, even as a young kid before I, you know, really had these like street dreams, these drug dealer dreams. I'm like, this thing moves. This is go. Yeah. You know, the gangsters called it go on the West Coast. Because if you got it, that's a green light.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So, you know, I just traveled everywhere. I would be in Midtown Manhattan staying for a week with, you know, walking around with 30 grand in my pocket. Cash. Yeah. Imagine I'm 23 years old. Walk and lick.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But never, though, never got stuck. Yeah. You know, so. But you never considered leaving Portland?

Like, why not just like go to L.A. and keep it moving. Well, that's what I was planning on doing. Before you got caught up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Damn. Yeah.

And then you, so everyone that's listen to Flagrant at this point, like, no is basically like the first part of the story, like, yeah. Working with the Sinoa cartel and like all that shit. Mm-hmm. And then the thing that basically gets you caught up, you are shipping weed sniffed out by a dog, they catch it, and then you get thrown in prison. Yeah, they caught the money.

They never got any work. That's what it was. Yeah. So all the guys I talked to, though, that have, like, done a criminal past, always go from weed to coke because it's like smaller, doesn't smell. Why did you never do that again? I was making too much money moving weed. But couldn't you have made more of doing a coat?

With a lot more transactions and a lot more risk, maybe. But if you think about it, you know, it just depends on the price you're getting per unit. It's all broken down to math, right? So if I'm making $1,500 profit per pound, if I'm buying it for 25, let's say, and selling it for $4,000, what can I get for a kilo? bought on the West Coast what's the markup going to be in New Jersey or New York? Maybe it's a lot higher

right? I'm not sure how much higher though It just seems like it's like you sell a key for 20 G's If it's going on the West Coast back then you know we're talking 2008 you could probably get you know My Sina Lowens probably could have plugged me for like 28

So what can I get for it over here? 32 maybe you know what I mean? So and how many people can buy wholesale, like bulk at a time. Yeah. Not many, there's not many groups

that can buy 20 kilos at a time. But I got 10 guys that can buy 20 pounds at a time. So you see the math is like every week, it's the same thing, right? So it's a very small fraction of people that can move wholesale cocaine and make huge money. And now that you've gone like so probably with a story,

being on Flagra, I'm like obviously having your own channel, which is fire. Thank you. Are you, how many of these guys are calling you up? Oh, dude, I got DMs every day trying to get my connect. Not, oh, but like, are the connects calling you up being like, hey, man, is everything square? No, the connects aren't calling me up.

They've long been, they've long since disappeared until whatever it is. Back to Mexico, dead in prison. Yeah, I'm not worried about the connects because I never, I never talk about the connects. You know, I never, I really like, you know, took my time standing up. And, you know, that's why I got whatever kind of street cred is left. It's because I didn't rat, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to know more about the prison time specifically.

Yeah. How long were you incarcerated? Almost 20 months. So it was just a, it was a cat nap, really. Like to talk to somebody like unique. I mean, he like scoffs at that at a year and a half, two years of prison. But, you know, it was hard time though. It was like county jail, denied bail, fighting, maximum security prison.

living through riots where people are getting stabbed, doing time in the hole in solitary, multiple months spent in solitary. Why were you in solitary again? Fighting, getting caught with contraband. And then when you first get shipped off, when you first get sentenced, you leave county jail,

you get shipped to, you don't get shipped straight to the prison where you're going to serve your time. You get shipped to like a holding facility. It's like diesel therapy where like they drive you around to a bunch of things. spots. You ever heard that before? I've heard of that. That's more on the feds. This way in the state, they bring you to, it's just like a FedEx sorting facility. They send all the packages to one place

and then they get shipped off to whatever part of the country they're going to. It's the same thing with inmates. Yeah. So you all, you go to this one holding facility and they just wait to find where your bed space is going to be depending on where your, you know, your security clearance, your security level, all that shit. I've heard that those holding spots can be worse because you don't have any papers. Yeah. Those are really bad. But you're also locked down basically 247. It's like being in the hole. Yeah.

You know what I mean? And so that sucks. You're like, I'd much rather be at a facility and not be. Walking around. You want to get to your home. Once you know you're getting locked up, like it's done. There's no, we're not beating this. You've got to go sit down.

You just want to get to where you're going as fast as possible. Right. Let's speed the misery up. And then you get linked up. Who was your, your, your, your, your, my cellie. Your celly. My celly. Bunky works.

I like Bunky better, actually. Yeah, yeah, okay, my bunky. He, uh, sounds like where I can't, you know? It's way cuter. Yeah, uh, Jimmy. Yeah, I won't say his last name, uh, because I think he is still alive, but he's hanging on by a thread. Jimmy and he was, uh, you know, he was the shock caller for the Hells Angels, the biker

gang, big on the, on the West Coast. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, that was, that was my celly. Now, part of the story that someone pointed out to me that I'm curious for clarification, I don't know how this works, obviously. never been in a person. But when you're locked up, doesn't the priority person get bottom bunk? Oh, yeah. He could have taken whatever bunk he wanted, I think. He preferred top? Yeah, I think he did. I don't know why exactly. Maybe they were made. That's a good question. Maybe

because they were really coming down on him at this time. They were really, they were starting to squeeze him a little more. Like, even though he had a couple of guards in pocket, he was really like, they were trying to break him because he was in the last days of his like really running the show bringing in contraband smuggling crystal meth and you know uh you know ordering hits and things like that i'm not going to ruffle anything yeah i think they they might have mandated him to do that but i don't exactly remember oh that's wild but part of me thinks he could have taken whatever the fucking bunk he wanted you know what i think all of you knows him whatever he wanted yeah yeah yeah yeah for sure. I mean, he knew, like, when I used to, like, do favors for him and shit, like, take balloons

to the fucking the kitchen, right? Yeah. Because he loved being sold up with me, because I was the squeaky clean guy who was fish out of water. Like, what the fuck is this kid doing here? You know what I mean? People, inmates would walk up to me and be like, huh? What? Yeah. What? Yeah, white collar. You couldn't have made a call? Yeah. Like, you must have had a dog shit lawyer. And I was like, yeah, yeah. I mean, evidently. You know, was your lawyer actually bad? No, he was. was great. I paid him fucking 50 G's. I mean, like, he, you know, he was, he was, he did the best with what we had to work with. Should your sentence have been longer for what happened? No. I mean, potentially. If I had had a public defender, I probably would have done triple the

time. Really? So I guess it should have been longer. It makes that much of a difference. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because this guy had been, you know, working in the Portland, you know, criminal justice system for 20 years. He knew every DA, right? He knew every judge. And it just, when they know you, it's like a social club in these political bureaucracies, right? The DAs, many of them become criminal defense lawyers, right? Oh, this guy used to be a DA too, Gorski. I called him the fat man. He used to be a prosecutor, right? And so many prosecutors, they get paid shit, right, for the most part. Right. So they, many of them go into private practice as criminal defense lawyers because they know that the system so well.

So I just think that helps, right? He can just sit down a level with the DA. Be like, look. It's kind of fucked up how connection based it is. Like literally like, yo, I'm going to hire. Like if you have the ability, what you did to like hire someone that's connected. Yeah. It makes that much of a difference first.

You get like a public defender that's in there like trying his best, you know, 22 year old kid just past the bar. He's like, all right, let's go help some people. But it doesn't make you feel any better because you get assigned. as soon as you get locked up, even if you're going to pay your own lawyer, they assign you, they assign you somebody, right? So you get on the phone with them and they're just reading off like what you're facing, like it's a fucking postmates order.

They go, oh, okay. So I get on the phone with my, you know, public pretender. We call them dump trucks. If you got a dump truck, you're in trouble, dude. He goes, okay, yeah. So conspiracy to traffic marijuana, conspiracy to commit money laundering, bribery. It just keeps reading it and reading it And my heart's just sinking

And he goes, yeah We're looking at about five to seven What? And I go, yeah Yeah, yeah, I get fucked And I hung up the phone And I'm like, and I call my mom I'm like, get the fat man down here Asap.

Yeah, dude, fuck. Yeah, immediately. There's got to be like, like if I'm, I would do a go fund me. If I got locked up, I'd be like, yo, Go fund me to get me a real attorney Because that's years of your life. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And so you were able to use the money from because why were you able to use the money that you had stash to pay the your attorney? Well, he had a retainer, first of all. So I'd already paid him 20 grand in cash beforehand, like months beforehand. Oh, really? Right. Exactly. So, and that's just, that's just so I can get him on the phone. Like, this is the, here's 20 G's in case something happens. And this is 24, 24-7, I get a hold of you. You know what I mean? That's another privilege that giving an attorney five grand won't get you. Right.

You pay an attorney 5G's. He'll call you on Monday. Wow. You give him 20, I'm going to be able to get a hold of you on Saturday when you're on your boat. Yeah, dinner time. You know what I mean? Exactly.

Step away. Oh, that's crazy. So the guys should do that. Like, if you have money and like you're popping right now, get the best fucking attorney you can. If you're a drug dealer watching this show, you must, if you're rolling around like shit's sweet, you're heading for a crash. You're heading for a hurtin.

Yeah. Because if something happens, you need to be prepared. You have to always in the back of your mind believe that you could get locked up. Fuck. Then you gotta know it's gonna end. Or else you're probably gonna end up snitching too

because you're gonna get caught and you're gonna be so stuck and you're gonna panic and you're gonna open your mouth, you know? Yeah. And did you, when you got locked up, did you ever like pay for protective custody? No.

You never did that? No, no, no. Why? No. Because, well, first of all, protective custody, going to PC, PCing up, that means I would have to,

that's a completely segregated wing of the jail or prison, right? So I would have to make up an excuse that have to be like, hey, I'm scared for my life. They don't just send you there. You know what I mean? So I would either have to get beat up or I would have to, you know,

pretend that like I was getting threatened. Do you guys ever do that? Would they ever start a fight, lose just to go to PC? Some gangbangers would. Really? Because it would get, sometimes, especially in Cali prisons,

but it happened in Oregon too. Guys who are really on like level four yards that are just living a crazy gang-banging lifestyle, like everybody stab somebody, everybody's probably been involved in murders. They can't take it anymore. And they literally, they just go and they say, I'm breaking.

I'm at my breaking, but it's too violent. You got to just, I'll play spades with some child molesters. I don't care. Wow. Yeah, but I'm not a gangbanger. So it's like, I'm like, if all I got to do is fight to stay in the, general population to stay on mainline like that's all then let's fade yeah you know and you knew how to

fight growing up yeah we're always getting into street fights we were always getting into bar fights like Portland was not as a gay and and hipster back in the 90s like believe it or not like I grew up with like a diverse you know body of people like I went to a public school we were involved and you know everybody was like getting into some shit a lot of people got locked up well I knew a lot of people that got locked up for shit that I was doing oh really You know, weed trafficking back in the early 2000s, the mid-2000s on the West Coast was like crack was to Harlem back in the 80s. It was everybody was getting money. So it was not so unusual what happened to me.

You know what I'm saying? I mean, I guess it was a little bit, but like we knew a lot of people that got locked up. When you got there were there people like, bro, what's up? I knew some people from high school. Yeah. Yeah. They were sucked up though. Nobody there for like real crimes, junkies, which was sad.

Were they surprised to see? Yeah, absolutely. What is that conversation? They were like, what the fuck? You must have fucked up. You know what I'm embarrassed? Like, yo, I'm in the same spot as like my degenerate junkie friends growing up. Yes, absolutely.

I was embarrassed in the county jail because I was around such losers. You know, like I had a lot of ego. I'm like, guys, I'm like a big time criminal. No offense. You know what I'm saying? Like I made hundreds. I made like a million dollars. Like I should not have.

have to be next to a guy who's withdrawing on heroin. Yeah, he got jammed up for stealing copper. Exactly. I don't want to do with that guy. Exactly. Not even copper. A DVD box set. You know, so. He robbed a red box back in the next. She's like, I'm taking this, dude. Men and Black box. Let's go. He robbed the last blockbuster. So that's not even a robbery. That's just fucking foreclosing. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Literally. So yes, I was, I was like, that was part of the brutality of having to spend so long. in the county jail is just being surrounded by everybody they just freshly scooped off the street and tossed in there.

You know what I mean? Which is 90% of everybody in like a county or a city jail, right? And then every now and then, you know, you see it read about this Mexican guy in the paper connected with Sinaloa, right? He got pinched for 50 kilos of heroin, right? And then he comes in, right? But it's not many guys like me, right? Right.

In that area specifically. Yeah. And that normally, like if I was in a bigger city, because I was getting charged originally with federal criminal charges, I'd be like in New York. I'd be at the MCC, the Metropolitan Correctional Center. Those are all people facing Fed time. You know what I mean? Portland, it's not. They kind of throw everybody in together.

But you never paid anyone in the prison to protect you even just like, no. You all do favors for you if you protect me. You were able to be good. No, fuck no, because it's just like, then what? Then I got to, you know, next thing you know, you're giving a guy a butterfinger to watch your back and then you're fucking blowing him. You know what I mean? That's a slippery slope. Exactly.

That happened to me in middle school too. What? You had to blow it, dude? Yeah. It starts with butter fingers. Yeah. Then you got to butter his fingers sometimes. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, that's fucked up. Yeah. And I'm curious, did you ever have a Susie? No, what is that? That's a prison bitch? Koss was talking about it. He was like, he was like a Susie in his system was a glove with a towel and then a sock over it and then a little bit of conditioner in there. That's and you fuck that yeah that we call that on the West Coast a Fifi bag a Fifi

we call that a Fifi but that's more like you just put rudimentary you just put a bunch of Vaseline in a glove yeah and you cut a slid at it and then you fuck it why why doesn't it's kind of like a rudimentary pocket pussy I actually got caught fucking a Fifi bag I did not tell this story on Schultz I wanted to save this exclusively for a market camp camp Gagdon I was I was making love to a Fifi bag you're making love oh no making like you know what I mean but I was like taking it easy you know what I mean I was like I was going like semi gentle on her yeah you like that and I was and I was turned as per the as per the prison rules this was in prison in my cell okay Jimmy was gone I think he was out like medical for a couple of days

yeah and so I took that time whenever your cell he leaves that's when you take the time to really get some fucking jerk session and yeah you get some fucking you time you light some candles dude you fucking have a little pruno you know you get a little Twisted. Pruno is like, it's the prison juice. That's the prison juice. That's the prison booze. So it's literally like fermented prunes or some shit.

It's, uh, it's oranges. That's a good guess. No, that is a good guess. And it might have come from that, right? At my prison, it was just orange peels mixed with so many packets of sugar. And then they just let that. And then a few other ingredients is, I don't know. I never was involved in making it.

There was all there'd be always one. It was like a trade in prison. That seems like very Portlandy. They're like, we're going to home brew something here. Yeah. It's like pickling or something. Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah, so there would be those guys. This is Kraft Pruno. Yeah, you're like, dude, this is amazing. Yeah, yeah. A New England Pruno. I love that. Yeah. So, so you, but you would buy it, you would just buy like bags of it.

And then you would just twist it up and you would buy it. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And Jimmy, like, I don't even think I had to buy it. Like, Jimmy had the line on Pruno, cigarettes. He knew the guy that had the vineyard and would just. Exactly. Dude, our cell looked like a 7-Eleven with so many snacks, so many fucking, you know, Jordan

sneakers because he was the shock collar bro so he would the way he traded for his drugs that he would get in there was like you know commissary items and guards didn't care like it was it all hidden it's hidden and then some guard guards are in on it which we'll get into in a second but let me finish my story about fucking the fee fee yeah i like this so i'm i'm hitting it from the side okay because check this out in prison there are literally in the rule book ways to appropriately take care of yourself okay you supposed to turn with a blanket over you facing the wall and that's how that's how you jerk off right and that's to prevent people from like standing looking through their cells like jacking off looking at the female prison guards or whatever that's against the rules i'm assuming or is that just

like a code thing that no no that's the rules are you have to turn and face your the wall with a blanket over you that's how you jerk off that's a prison rule that's a prison rule like from the top down they're like hey if you got to do it it's written in by some bureaucrat from the state capital yes It's in the rulebook. Guys in Congress meeting were like, well, they got to jerk off. Yeah. That guy's a hero. We got to get that guy on the line because they're all like, no jerking off the prison.

One guy was like, come on. Yeah, all these feminist chicks are like, we do not accept this. And a guy's raises his hand. What if they turn to the side? What if they're kind of like leaned like their asses at? And they're like, all right. So, yeah, I was hitting the feet. I wouldn't have a blanket over me.

I didn't have some stifling. I needed to, you know what I mean? I was trying to get in there. So I was just, I was just smashing. the Fifi bag and this female prison guard, this short-haired like butch female prison guard, just I just see her pop her fucking, I just see her eyes pop into the window of my cell. And I just, no, no, and it was like the, I was embarrassed like my mom had just caught me jerking off. That's so funny.

And then she just kept it moving. And then the next day, her next shift, I'm like walking by her towards the yard. And I just kind of nodded at her. And I go, CEO. And she smiled at me. she goes, Mitchell. She knew. We had an understanding, dude.

Does that ever happen? I mean, it definitely happens. But like getting tight with a female CEO and be like, yo, let's fucking slide off. Of course, of course. A female CEO who worked in the kitchen, one day I saw her getting led out of prison in handcuffs. She was fucking an inmate.

Wow. She was fucking a big black dude. And I don't like stereotypes. You know this. But she was a large white one. woman. Okay. And I'm like the fucking jungle fever is so real. So yeah. So she was and she was obviously like bringing shit in for him. You know what I mean? So if you if you are uh and the burden always the punishment always goes to the person working at the prison. Yeah. Because that's that's that's like

sexual. They consider that like sexual assault. Yeah. Because if it's the inverse like if it's a female prison with a male CO then all of us would be like bro, that's fucked up. Yeah. Like how dare you? Like you're fucking rapist. Exactly. But as soon as it's a female CEO or like, Yeah, exactly. I'm like, whatever, dude, guy, good for him. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, so that happened. If it's just fucking, how bad is the punishment? Do you know? I don't know. I'm curious. Because it seems like the bad part is like, oh, you're bringing shit in. Like there's a break of trust in this whole system. Yeah. But if you're just like topping off a dude. I don't know. Exactly. I don't know. But probably what happened is that guy ratted on her. That guy, she started,

she started getting out of line, not doing what he wanted, not bringing him stuff in. And so he's just like probably went to the ward and it was like, hey, listen, I got something, what about six months off my sentence. That probably happened. And he's like, prove it. And he's like, I'm fine. He's like, he's like, yeah, I'll show you. Sniff it. Give a good sniff. That's Martha. You know Martha. Exactly. Smells like shepherd's pie that we were just making in the kitchen. You know what I mean? So that's, but that's the reason that they don't want female inmates fucking the, you know, or female guards fucking the inmates. I mean, it's a security risk, you know. And like, escape from Dan Amora that fucking the show about the real prison break from uh you know the prison

in upstate new york i didn't see that oh it's amazing with it's with uh benicio del torro and somebody else but it's it's based off a true story that's what's happening this guy is this inmate doing life murderer is fucking this female co and she's you know typical like stereotype like uh you know husband works in the prison they're upstate new york trash they're you know she's depressed she wants to have like a romp. She wants some excitement in her life. And he manipulates her, gets her to bring in like a saw, a saws all and smuggle it in. And he is able to, uh, like, uh, saw through a piece of pipe and escape through like the sewer system, like Andy Dufrein Shawshank style. Oh shit. Yeah. What year is that roughly? This is recent. It's like the last 10 years. Yeah.

Escape from Dan Amora. Oh, that's crazy. And then what do you know the full story? I don't want to ruin this great series. No, it's amazing. Well, they, they, they, they escaped. him and his boy fucking escaped and they were on the run for like a couple of months but they got him they ended up killing one of the guys

and then they you know the rest of the other guy and then the CEO obviously gets thrown in prison too yeah she does some time it's not a lot of you do a couple of years but I mean still bro a couple years

yeah that's crazy you gotta get a girlfriend in there it's a whole nightmare I imagine having to have a girlfriend for two years dude in prison it's a long time it's a long time it's a long time to have a girlfriend that's what I'm saying dude damn

yeah that's crazy yeah that's true love though if you really think about it that is like the hottest That is hot. That's hot, dude. Is that what you were thinking about with your Fifi? Oh, yeah, dude.

You're like, you're going to get me out of here, you're going to fucking, oh, we're going to go to Mexico. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I've got to talk to you about a very important issue. I was riding my bike home the other day over the Williamsburg Bridge, like I do, back over to Brooklyn, my hometown. You know what I'm saying?

County of Kings. And on my way, right before I left, I was like, yo, I'm going to order a little bit of Uber Eats. Get a little something delivered to the place, right? here's what happens. As I'm sitting outside my spot, I'm like a block away from my place, I'm pulling up. A delivery guy flies past me, almost knocks me off my bike. I almost fell off my bike. Keep on biking, and I see the delivery guy that almost knocked me off my bike. Guess what? Delivering my food. All the animosity and resentment I had towards him in that moment all went away because I was like,

you know what? You almost killed me to bring me my enchiladas. Thank you. Thank you. All of my anger turned to forgiveness. But had I broke my elbow, you know what I could have done? I could have hit up my friends at Morgan and Morgan. That's right. Morgan and Morgan is the largest personal injury law firm in the entire country. Over 100 offices nationwide and more than 800 attorneys that want to hear from you and want to hear your claims. That's right. Now here's the cool thing with Morgan and Morgan. There's two cool things that I love about these guys, all right? Central Florida legends, Morgan and Morgan. Two things that I like. One, submitting a claim, it's about as easy as ordering food from Uber Eats. Yeah, that's how easy

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You got nothing to lose. If you're injured in an accident, you slipped, you got rear-ended. Whatever happened, you could submit a claim to Morgan and Morgan. And if you wanted to do that, you could go to for the people.com slash gagnon. That's correct. For the people.com slash G-A-G-N-O-N-O-N or dial pound law. That's pound 529 from your cell phone.

And that's for the people, F-O-R-the-P-Peele-O-T-O-N-O-N-R-E-P-E-N-E-L-E-Lap. If you want to reach out to them, if you want to submit a claim. Now let's get back to the show. The whole appeal, I feel like, Neil Brennan has a bit about this. He's like, women love dating a guy that's locked up because, they know where he is. Yes. You know what I'm saying?

Like that's the whole beauty of it. Like you're going to stay right here. Right. You're not fucking anyone else. Yep. I'm, probably. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it's you and me. Yeah. And then she's going to break him out. Yeah. That's crazy.

Yeah. Oh, his game must be insane. Yeah. Oh my God. It's, it's, that's the psychopath

versus like the confident alpha. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because she got it flipped up. For sure. Oh, that's crazy.

And then having to explain that to your husband. God, babe, you're gonna laugh. But she's like, he's like, just tell me who cheated on me. She's like, well, worse. There's now a criminal at large. Very large, actually. How do you think about it? Holy shit, they're spending so many resources to fucking track this guy down.

Yeah, his taxes are going to get my ex back in prison. Fuck. Yeah. Yeah, that's brutal. This is an interesting piece of human psychology. Yeah. Do you think, so obviously like Stanford Prison Experiment shit, like you put a bunch of human beings in a room, some regard, some are prisoners.

Like you get this crazy god complex. Do you think that female COs are more aggressive on average in your experience? Yes. Yes, because think about it. Especially they're from these podunk little deindustrialized, you know, nothing towns, you know, middle America. And now, you know, they've probably been abused. They've probably, you know, been with alcoholics and, you know, wife beaters and shit like that.

Men have been fucking them over their whole lives. Totally. Yeah. Now they are. are getting to tell men what to do. It's like the ultimate dominatrix, right? And if you talk back, send your ass to the hole. Damn, not the right hole.

The wrong hole. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So I'd rather be in that hole, you know. My counselor sent me to the hole one time because I demanded to know when my exit date was, my date to get the class down to minimum, and she wouldn't give it to me. And so I was trying to like negotiate diplomatically be like, but you know, legally, like I have to at least have like a, you know, you got to give me like some kind of ballpark date.

And she kept saying, oh, yeah, keep saying that shit. Keep saying that shit. I'll send you to the hole. I'm like, you do what you got to do. And she fucking sent me to the hole for three days. Damn. So that's a kind of so, yes, of course, they love that shit. Damn, that's shitty.

Yeah. I feel like the dudes like, I don't, like, obviously there's a complex that goes along with it. But like, I feel like they can almost understand. Like, oh, yeah, you were in the drug game. I know people. Like, I feel like there's much more of like understanding. You're either, you're either really, really. tough and abusive or you're super cool as a CEO.

Yeah. Like it's not it's it's because you got to be really tough because if you're, you know, a punk, if you're like a tiny little, you know, pip squeak like this one CEO and you're a shit talker while he ended up getting his ass beat. Yeah. You know what I mean? So you either got to be really big and tough or like just mellow. And obviously there's a racial dynamic in prison like people link up in cars and it'll be like

gang affiliated or racial. Yeah. Um, do you find there's a racial dynamic? with the COs? Like, would, like, a Dominican CEO be, like, cooler with the Dominicans and, like, vice versa? Oh, most definitely, most definitely. And in Oregon, it's, you know, we're out in the middle. It's called this town called Eumatilla.

And it's way out in eastern Oregon, this dusty, like there's like a nuclear reactor that went off and everybody's got like three eyes. And it's fucking. It explains it. I was wondering about that. Exactly. Dude, it's just Mongols out there. That's why you're tall.

I think you were in prison. You were like five, nine. No, no, I'm not from there. What are you kidding me? I got in prison there, dude. Are you crazy? You got locked up there at a growth spurt. That's right.

That's what happened, dude. Just no muscle. Just all bones. So, yeah, absolutely. So it's white guys out there. So obviously my cellie Jimmy, you know, he's like, hey brother, it's like white guy to white guy. Just Hulk Hogan's. Good white dude to good white dude.

Like they get the shock callers of the white gangs get on a level with the white COs. And they're able to manipulate them because it's like, hey, look, you know, we're outnumbered here. we you know more more more blacks out here we need to really stay strong you know how about a thousand dollars to bring me in a drama tobacco right it's hard time so that's how that's kind of how that goes right oh that's crazy and a lot of these people know people from the outside right a lot of these CEOs maybe even grew up with some of these guys right and they're they're one bad decision away from being inmates themselves fuck so there's definitely a racial dynamic to it yeah that understanding is tricky and is that why Jimmy got like some preferential treatment obviously like being

a shock holler like he was in there a while to yeah he was already in the system 20 years when I was in there in that same system uh no you're not in the same prison but in the same yeah Oregon he done time uh they tried to move him to different states because he was such a a good organizer he was such a problem yeah uh but he'd been in every penitentiary in Oregon basically yeah and so he was a legend he had juice guards already respect that and then yeah he just He had the manipulation of like just a psycho, like a criminal. And he was not, it was nothing for him to be like, you know, hey, this is, this is my cell block. Are you going to work with me?

New, new CEO? Or is there going to be a problem? You know? Yeah. And was there one singular guy in the whole prison that like, like, what, like really ran it? And was it Jimmy? No, no. He ran, he ran like his own car for the, for the, the hell's angels.

Got you. And then there was Aryan Brotherhood who's not as strong in Oregon. Gotcha. So those are the two white power groups, I would say. Yeah. But the Aryan Brotherhood seems way more Aryan. Yeah, they're intense. Yeah, there seems like a way, like, greater racial, hateful dynamic.

Just based on word alone. I don't know anything about it. Well, you know what's fucking weird is that like there's like in California, they have like Chicanoes that run with the Aryans. So it's even though like they, you know, they call themselves the Aryan Brotherhood, like it weirdly bleeds over sometimes. You know, the Nazi lowriders. Lowriders, when do you see a Nazi with a lowrider?

That's some Mexican Chicano shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they're not as sure they're racially segregated like every other gang, but they take prison so fucking seriously. You know what I mean? I'm like, guys, let's just relax. Can we just relax? We're playing cards, dude.

Like, chill. I remember talking to one of these guys who really had a problem with me, playing basketball with the blacks, right? I'd be like, I remember trying to level with him. You ever try to level with a fucking guy doing triple life? Never. I'm like, look, dude. Like we, I got all like nichey philosophical.

I'm like, I know we're locked up in here, but like everybody's got a choice about how we act. You know? Man is just the sum of his choices. Do we have to act like animals? And he's just like, what? Yeah, yeah. You're like, dude, we're on a rock. floating in space have you considered the magnitude of eternity right and he's like I'm

gonna be in here for that magnitude yeah that's a good point yeah no no and he considered it but he was like well you know you're in an adult prison and it just is what it is and no I will not break my prison code do you show your for your college for your college fucking whimsical experiment you didn't show them the stats I feel like you just showed him like dude I got a triple double last game like right like are you crazy yeah and he's like no you gotta leave it all behind I'm like you want me to play pre- integration basketball.

You want me to play with the whites? Play like Bob Coosy. Is this it? Just like dribbling like this out in front of you? Yeah. Just like, bank shot. Yeah, into a peach basket?

Yeah. I'm going to play ball. I'm trying to Euro step on these motherfuckers. Like, yeah, that's fucked up. So it was like, but yeah,

they take prison really seriously. Like they don't fight. They, there's no fighting with the Aryan brotherhood. And did you ever have to get a weapon? I mean, yeah, I carried,

Jimmy gave me one my first, first day in prison. And what do we talk? this is my shank. So he didn't give me like a bone crusher. That's like a piece of, that bone crusher is like a piece of steel. That's some shit. That's like either a real knife, right? Where I'm from, we called that a piece of steel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't call it a bone crusher. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We called that a, but a bone crusher was anything like, uh, wielded from steel or out of like a real, from a real knife. He just gave me like a fucking, he just gave me something to

like carry around, uh, you know, something small, easy to carry. It was like, uh, it was like, whittled down plastic like really finely whittled down plastic maybe I don't know maybe six inches I'm looking like my penis size yeah maybe the size of like a the size of a respectable cock just an average you know what I mean yeah I wouldn't say it was average I'd say it was a respectable upper middle class size size piece you know what I mean how are they making these just like out of like shampoo bottles that they like will fire down or something um I I never heard about that I mean a lot of them were made in the kitchen. A lot of them were just toothbrushes whittled down.

You know what I mean? Like when the funk was on, when it was like beef on the on the cell block, you could fucking hear the next door neighbor like getting his shit ready. Shit, chit, chit, chit, chit, right? Like shit like that. So it was harder. If you had a piece of steel, you had juice because that means you got somebody from the wood shop, right, to, you know, whittle it down for you.

You probably had a guard looked the other way. got it through the metal detector. That was harder. That was going to cost you some money. You know what I mean? Oh, wow. So yeah, but everybody else carried around like what they could make. But, you know, you get that in the brachial artery.

You could die still. Yeah, that's a wrap. Yeah, yeah. And so you carried that around. I carried it around when we went to like, we went to the chow hall. Shows and shit. Were you a boots in the shower guy? When we knew it was time to.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we took our boots to the shower. Yeah. Yeah. Especially like when the funk was on. That's when you would walk, you'd take your buddy and one would stand guard while you showered in there and then you would switch it up. But everybody had their boots on butt naked.

It looked like black porn in the 90s, you know what I mean? So, um, OG mudbone. Exactly. Yeah. I'm like, dude, I can fucking really get, I get why they do this. I can get leverage. Do you do that now? You got to.

You'd be like, I learned this trick in prison, babe. Yeah, you can bust the Tim's out. Well, then I got to put the, I got to get naked and I got to put the boots back on. It seems. Being naked with shoes is a very unique experience. It really is. If no one's done it, I've done it at home just as a fun game. Right.

I'm like, my air max is right there. I'm like, I'll slip these on, you know what I mean? And it feels bizarre. I kind of feel bad for like Monster Energy Drink Girls. Uh-huh. Like you ever see them like at like a promotional event? They got to be in like a bikini. Oh yeah.

And then also like running shoes. Right. That's basically it. But your aerodynamic. Yeah. You can fight. You can fuck. Yeah.

You can do a lot. You can run. Yeah. You can do anything. It's kind of freeing. Yeah. It is a nice, I guess it's a nice feeling. It is nice.

You get grip going. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, I get it, dude. I get why these fellows like to fuck with construction tims on. Yeah, dusty and shit. They got residual fuck juice on it. You're like, geez. All I need is a wife feeder.

Yeah. It doesn't quite fit. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of wild. And so. That's how crazy it is, though, because you're expected, you're expected to fight if we were going to be showering off. And I'm next to a guy.

from a different race, right? And a riot pops off on the yard. You're expected to turn and fight wherever you're at. Could be the kitchen, could be the fucking showers, could be the baseball field. Would you structure your day around it?

If you knew the phone was on, would you be like, I can't play ball today? I definitely put in more requests to be in the kitchen. Why is the kitchen the spot? The kitchen's the spot because you get fucking unlimited junk food,

right? You smuggle out, you know, cookies and, We had a really good bakery. So I could trade people ship for that. It was also like, I don't know, I felt like kind of out of prison almost, right? You could walk around. There was a lot of like freedom to go like, hey, I'm going to go to the, I'm going to go grab the flower.

I'm going to go here to like the break area. They had. I don't know. It just kind of felt like it felt like a shitty job. But at least you're, I don't know, there was some camaraderie there. There's not really a lot of segregation there. So you could be kicking it with people of all different races and, you know, a lot of to mellow people. No gang bangers are working there. Oh really? So yeah. So you could just be like

chopping it up with I don't know dudes that like making plans for the future. Yeah, yeah. You're on your kitchen nightmare shit. You're like, dude, we got to make, you got to make these soufflés. We got to get it gone. But you know what? I was still shitty at it. The Mexicans, my nickname in there in the prison kitchen was pedizoso. Lazy. Lazy. So I would walk into the dish pit. That's a way worse insult. Like at least gringo is just descriptive. But like lazy is like, yo, I'm not doing shit. I'd be walking into the fucking the dish where we'd all be on like a dish line and you just hear,

Perezoso, oh, see, Vienna, Perez also. But that's not fair. Like, everyone compared to Mexicans is lazy. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, you guys, I'm not lazy. You guys just work way too hard.

Yeah, I'm like, guys, you're making a dollar a day. And they'd be like, that's where we're from. It's a lot. Yeah, yeah. We're making money. I actually came to prison

as a level up. Yeah. I make 50 cents in El Salvador. This is the American dream. Oh, that's so funny. You never think about that. Like, if you're getting paid in prison and you come from, like,

a third world country, you're making decent money. Yeah, it might have been more than that. It might have been like a dollar an hour. Wow. So they're actually, maybe that's like, yeah, we're making maybe like seven bucks a day. The minimum in Mexico, forget about like El Salvador. In Mexico, the minimum per day, and a minimo is $6. Wow. So.

Making above minimum wage. Yeah. That's interesting. So that DUI I got actually turned out to be good because now here I am. Got a raise. Yeah, exactly. Dude, that's wild. Yeah. And With the kitchen shit, like that was, were you given jobs? Like, were you able to be there all the time? Or did you have to like do like janitorial shit half the time? No, that's like orderlies. We called that an orderly.

Yeah, how do the orderlies work? Those are just like the guys that are like mopping the fucking cell tears, passing out towels and shit. And you never did that. I never did that. Those guys can make a lot of money or live well because they're the dudes that are like smuggling shit because they're pushing the book carts around to different Bell blocks. So if I'm Jimmy and I need to get, you know, I need to get a shank, a burner,

we called it to a different cell block, you know, I give it to an orderly and then he gets taken care of. You know what I mean? So those are a little more, those are for more senior inmates. Oh, gosh. So orderly was actually- You can't just get a good job in prison. Like, you have to like start, you know, doing something shitty. But orderly is a good job. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. And then kitchen's like kind of mid-range. Yeah, I would say kitchen is mid and then the worst job. The worst job is just anything with the child molesters.

You know what I mean? Like the PC unit. Like I would consider that the worst because you're around like real scum. Yeah. But like I feel like those guys are the least threatening. These guys are cowards. They're like ultimate losers. Yeah, that's true. I guess. I guess on principle you just kind of like shudder like when you hear like

you know. Yeah, this guy murdered children. Yeah, this guy killed. This guy killed his grandma with a lamp. Like you heard that shit. Yeah, fuck that. Oh, my God. Yeah. But I don't know.

Maybe kitchen might have been the worst job. Kitchen might have been laundry. Laundry room. I don't know. It just kind of depends. I hate it all, right? Yeah. Well, you want to fold fucking shitty underpants?

Crazy. Yeah. I mean, I guess folding. Some would say like folding laundry was better. Yeah. But I would say working in the kitchen is better. I don't want to fold somebody's draws. And then with Jimmy, obviously, being your boy, you were like smuggling stuff for him.

Yeah. Yeah. I did at the beginning. How bad is that first experience? smuggling stuff because were you smuggling like cheeks yeah yeah how how like it was it was terrifying even though he assured me he was like this guard is our friend so you're not going to have any problems you're just going to walk this to the kitchen because you're working in the kitchen and so we're talking like rubber glove contraband thrown in there like drugs or something it was a balloon

it's a balloon it's a balloon literally it's a tiny little fucking balloon how do they get a balloon is just the same way they got the drugs like yeah they balloon it up ah they balloon it up It's a great question. I don't know. If you can get heroin in there, I probably, you probably get some balloons. Well, a lot of them are reused too. You know what I mean? So if there's a balloon.

So think about that. So you're sharing fucking doo-do germs with somebody else, right? Like, how wild is that? So if you're my old lady, I'm an inmate and you smuggle me in a balloon of weed, like probably that's going to get traded around. Oh, the same balloon. Not wild? You never think about that.

Yeah. So, yeah. And Jimmy was like, you don't have to keister this. Our guard is working. But you were like, I got it. I'm like, I got to do this for the story, dude. I'm going to be on a podcast someday. But I was so fucking terrified.

I'm going to like, but it wouldn't have mattered. Like if I get strip searched, they're going to see a balloon fall out of my ass. You know what I mean? It was either that or swallow it. But you don't want to swallow someone else's ship balloon. Right. Well, you know, I'm sure it was cleaned off, Mark. But like.

Yeah, but still, how clean can shit be? And I don't want to like swallow. I'm scared to like swallow a. balloon. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know how long that's going to... And then you've got to like move that through your... It breaks open. It was very small, right? But like, still, like I'm like, yeah, so I fucking, you get the little, the little balloony end to stick out. It's like a tampon and you just fucking shove that up your fucking, you know, brown, brown eye. Now, up until this point, I'm 26. I've never had anything. Well, I'd never had anything in my in my asshole.

Yeah. I've showered thoroughly. Yeah. That's pretty much the extent of it. But the most is like a finger, your own finger up there. Like the tip of a finger kind of vibe. You know what I mean? I've just never explored it. If you're asking if it feels good, I mean, fantastic is more of the word. He's like, dude, put it in your pocket and you're like, what pocket? It's going in my main pocket.

Oh, it's in the pocket. Don't worry. But like, is there an explanation? Because that is on the outside world, a fairly gay experience. Nobody talks about it like it's gay in there. Nobody talks about it. But like, does he explain it to you? Like, hey, if you need to move.

something, do it in your ass. And then you're like, well, how do I get it up there? And like, does he give you like a demo? It's called keystering. Is there a demo for keystering? No, you kind of got to learn as you go. You kind of learn as you go. But it's like jerking off. You just kind of discover it on your exactly, exactly. But you're like, you're either going to keister it or he goes, you don't have to keister this. You can just walk it there. And I'm like, uh, I want a keyster. I'm just, I'm paranoid. You know what's the first time you keister? Like, like, what's going to do your head? Like, what is the feeling? Like literally, like, uh, it's, it's a mix of like terror with just concentration it felt like being back moving fucking 50 pounds of the highway

right oh really so it's it's adrenaline it's like let's focus but I feel like that would get that would tighten up the sphincter sure sure the shit shoot yeah yeah yeah I feel like that would lock me up I'd be like fuck I gotta think of something different yeah but you know I mean you you do it before lunch right and you actually yeah I did it before lunch so I hadn't eaten do you do you right I put a little mayo on it we had some mayo on it we had some mayo packets yeah and spread it around and uh because anyone tell you mail or you just like i'm gonna do this is my way i'm gonna do this my this is my journey spit dude yeah i suppose so but i was

my mouth was dry i'm tough i'm scared you know my i had no spittle i but i could have used the vassaline for my fee fee yeah you had a fief i don't know so but i had you know who knows what goes through a young man's mind yeah i mean we know what goes through his ass this fucking egg deposit That is wild. Yeah. So a little bit of mayo and you go on your bunk. Yeah. You throw the blanket on.

Yep. And then you just kind of like- No, no, no, I didn't do it in my bunk. It did it in the bathroom. Okay. Yeah. So you go into the stall and you fucking, you know, you get it, loob it up, loob it up with the mayo. My little fucking keister sandwich.

Just personal question. Yeah. Have you ever done a keester sandwich outside of prison, like before this? Like you're with a girl. No. I don't even like shit. That's what's wild is like I don't like any ass play even with my chick or, you know, A Colombian hooker, like I just don't.

Fingertip. Yeah, fingertip. Bring the doorbell. The fingertip. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. But like consider that a balloon, a drug, it's not like, it's not a water balloon fight.

This is a very small. Like it's really, they take two grams of meth and they ground it down to something that's just a little bigger than your pinky. Right. So it's like they get a lot in there. Yeah. So it's, it wasn't like, you know, it wasn't like a super, you know, it wasn't like a super, you I didn't have to like, you know, jam it up there.

I didn't have to tink, tink, tink, tink, you know. Make a statue of David. Exactly. Exactly. But you like, when it was in, you knew it was in. Yeah. Yeah, I'm like, okay, it's in there. I can get it out.

Because that's the other fear. Like, you know, I've seen stories, not personally that, like, a guy will, like, be playing with a dildo or some shit or, like, lose it in his ass. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. You talk to anybody who works in an emergency room. Yeah.

It's, it's gunshots. And dildos. Yeah, I would take a gunshot any day at a week. Like 50. said got respected. I was taking eight shots, but imagine he has eight dildos in his ass. He falls off the face of the map. He's not a rapper anymore. If I got a dildo stuck in my ass, I'd be like, somebody shoot me and I could say I got shot and then the guy rammed it up my ass. Exactly. That's a way better story. I would do that. Self-inflicted. They're like, dude, dude, dude, the bullet was

raid against you and the gun's in your name. You're like, look, there's a freak accident, dude. But yeah, that's just like, and you were never afraid of losing it. You're like, as long as the tip is out. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But honestly, like, you could just shit that out. Like you just eat and there's enough pressure. So then you walk it down. Yeah. How long is the walk? Like the walk is like from our cell block to the kitchen was maybe like an eight minute walk.

Okay. It's the other side of the prison. So you kind of squeak your way over. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like just don't come. Don't come. Don't come. You just Brock hard the whole time.

Yeah. Yeah. You're like CEO. My lady. I get there. I'm like sweating. I'm like, who's got a cigarette? I got a chill, dude.

They're like, fee fee time. They're like better. And then you get there. And then how does it come out? You go to the bathroom, you just fucking, you give a little squeeze. Bam, I got the end of it right there. Boom. Bluop. Wash it off.

And then I know the guy that I'm giving it to. And then you can just pass it to him. Exactly. Whoa. Yeah. So I did that a couple several times. Several times. Next time I use ketchup.

I did that a couple, several many every day. I did it every day. Yeah. Oh, that sucks. But I quit doing it. Jimmy quit having me put in work for him when he knew that, like, Like, I had a date to get class down to minimum. And I was already, like, doing stand-up in these, you know, talent show nights that they were having.

Yeah. And I was, like, writing scripts, like, by candlelight in the middle of the night. I would just be, like, writing furiously. I was writing scripts. And I didn't know you're doing scripts. I thought it was just stand-up. No, I was doing stand-up. But I didn't think stand-up was a viable thing you could even do.

Like, I didn't grow up watching, like, Mitch Headberg. Right. Watching, Daniel Tosh on, like, you know, late night comedy Central. I knew three comedians. I knew the rock stars. I knew Chris Rock. I knew Dave Chappelle. And I knew Cat Williams.

So I'm like, you have to be black. And you have to be like a rock star. You have to have this like wild charisma. Yeah. Stadium shit. Like how do we sell at a stadium? Yeah, exactly. I'm like, okay, I didn't even think I knew about Louis. You know what I mean?

Louis C.K. So I didn't just, I stand up was just not a part of my life growing up. But I was like, oh, but this is like a fun, it's a fun like performance. And I can be an actor. and I could write scripts. Like I'm a good writer. I could be a screenwriter. They need this.

This is something that Hollywood as a business needs. They need people to write these stories. So I was always like, money and logic always drove what I did first, not like the art of it. You know what I mean?

Like whatever is practical I could do. So I was like, okay, I can really move and sell a script. I can move to Hollywood and I could sell a script. You know what I mean? What is the script you were writing when you were in there?

I think it was just like a crime. story like involved like it involved shit about my own life sure but like you know I threw in like New York and it's like a fictional like dramatization totally a fictional dramatization I wrote like five of them right and they never saw the light a day right who knows who cares it never had a shot right but it was just like it was just like a passion of mine it became like an obsession so jimmy saw that and I told him like I'm gonna go I think I'm gonna go I'm gonna move to L.A I'm gonna go I'm gonna try to be in show business and he and like he got it and he saw me killing one night at the talent show doing stand-up just roasting different gangs different cars and sets right and uh and he was like okay he's like yeah

all right well you're not going to carry around a shank anymore you're not going to fucking you're not going to keister anything for me anymore like yeah you got to be clean because you got to get out of here you know what I mean that's so cool he looked out for you like that yeah because I think he had reached a point knowing he lost all his appeals he knew he was going to die in there he'd he'd almost like reached this like spiritual level where he was like okay I'm going to you know

accept my fate I'm gonna quit being a bad person quit gang banging to the extent that I can and like do what's right and do what's right by somebody else you know what I mean

how much does reform like that happen like to me prison doesn't seem like a place for rehabilitation No, it's not. It's like a holding cell for criminals to either get better a crime or to like stay there forever, like get out. Like what is the like the relapse rate? What is the word for that? Recidivism.

Yeah, recidivism. Ticivism rate is insanely high in America. Like it's not really for reform. But every down again, you hear a story of a dude that's like like when we had Kassan, he was like, bro, I went to prison. I started reading the Bible. Like I learned like this way to live that was completely foreign to anything I'd ever done. And it like really changed my life. Yeah.

Like how, did you see that at all? Yeah, I mean, yes, I don't know how many people like put that into practice once they got out. But yeah, in there, you see people that have reached like maturity and an understanding and a sense of self and an education that they would not have gotten if they were still in the street running, right? So it does force you to sit down and just be with yourself. Contemplate. So it's kind of up to you what you do with it. You know what I mean? Did you have that moment?

Like obviously, like you're writing and being contemplative. But did you have, were you in there long enough to be like, yo, I got to change my ways. Like I have to be like a better person. I like feeling guilt for any of the people like maybe you fucked over anything. I didn't feel that until I got out. I was still like in an adrenaline mindset, even in prison where I was like I got to fucking, I got to make this new career work. I got to get the money back that they took from me. It was still like very selfish and almost like a victim mentality, right?

But when I got out and I saw my dad crying for the first time, and I told this on flagrant, you know, I'd never seen him emit any kind of emotion like that. He's a very absent, you know, cold Midwest father. And when I saw him cry, like breaking down bawling and he was crying into my shoulder. Like he was my son. Yeah. I was like, ah, that really hit me. I'm like, God, I fucked up.

Like, I can't do this to them. If not for me, then for them, like, you know, I can't go back. Yeah. And how was the like patching? of that relationship with your parents, like with your dad specifically? Yeah, I mean, I think it just kind of happened over time by just my action. Like, they could see, like, I really was like serious about, you know, changing my life, like doing this crazy move to L.A., like trying to be in show business.

And then it's just, you know, over time, right? They quit worrying, you know, as the years went on, you know, and they saw my progression and stand up. That's just kind of how they, we were all able to move on, you know. Everybody got older. Right. Do you feel like the relationship is bonded, like fully? Do you feel like there's still more work to be done?

I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean, I think my dad is like, you know, my parents are in their 70s. They're at that age where, like, they're like, you guys do you. You know what I mean? Like, you know, short of like going back to prison, like, we're happy with everything that you're doing. You know what I mean?

So I really had like a good childhood. Like, I really, really beat, going to prison, I really beat the odds. You know, like really, I mean, nobody in there had ever been to college. Like, I was like, just having gone to college, I was like in the 0.1% of inmates, but to have two parents that gave a shit, it's like unheard of. What do you think it was like fully contemplative, like fully like psychoanalizing yourself? What do you think the motivation was to behave in that way? Like you could have made money a myriad of ways.

Like you could have had a ton of different careers that probably would have given you the same high, you know what I'm saying? I'm not sure though. I mean, the high was a huge part of it. The identity was the big part of it. Like what were you battling internally that was like, yo, this is what I want to do. And this is the way I'm going to make money and live my life.

Yeah. Well, it was, as I said, like building an identity for myself, right? It was not wanting to have a real job. Like seeing my parents like, you know, they did well. They were middle class people. But they fucking, at the end of the day, they were exhausted and overworked. and I found it horribly uninteresting, right? Just the kind of middle class like doldrums.

Like there's no story here. Yeah. I've always been obsessed with story. I'm like, what's the story of your life and identity? And so you kind of build that. And then that coupled with opportunity. You know what I mean? And then dude,

listening to, you know, being that white kid in the 90s, you know, growing up revering hip hop, black ghetto culture and the aspirations of Jay-Z. and 50 cent and these people who are not really gangsters. Their rap is aspirational. It's the gangster story of, you know, coming from nothing and making your street money

and then going legit. Right. That just kind of, that built, it's, that, I built that kind of narrative for my own life as I got older and I progressed in the drug game. Yeah, that's interesting. I remember that feeling like in Orlando, not knowing anyone that did anything cool.

not knowing anyone they did anything like there were people with a lot of money and like I grew up in communities that had money yeah but it was always like oh I own you know a real estate company I own an insurance thing like yeah so the only people with money had boring jobs they didn't really like yeah and then there was a lot of people with no money that had boring jobs they didn't like right right right like damn like yeah you know if like money is the only delineator here and obviously having a lot of money is better than having no money yeah but like just having a job you hate just sucks I remember that moment like asking people in my family who As a kid, like I have all these older siblings.

I have five older siblings, one younger sister. So like everyone in my family is like living their life, making money, doing jobs, whatever. And I remember just as a kid, you just assume everyone likes what they do. And I remember being like 13, 14 and like asking people in my family like, do you like your job? And then looking at me saying, no. And I was like, what? Yeah. Like this whole time, you're going to work every day.

Like you're working hard, like fucking killing yourself and you don't like it. And it like terrified me and also blew my mind. Like, you know, you can do people I know that I really love and respect are doing things they don't like. I always thought work was that way. Like I always looked at that like, oh, this is why it's work. Right. Like from a young, from seven years old, I was like, I want to play in the NBA.

Because that's money. That's freedom. That's not work. Yeah. Even though it's work. It's a career. You know what I mean? So it went from that to drugs.

And then I went from drugs to show business. So it's literally living. the Cameron album Sports, Drugs or Entertainment, SDE, like that was the only, it wasn't enough just to make money. You had to make money in a cool way. You had to make money in that entrepreneurial way.

And I think if I was raised, if I was a kid now, if I was 20 now, I would be having a totally different life path because there's so many ways that you have access to so many different ways to make money. TikTok dancing. Exactly. I would literally just be like doing something

you know, start an e-commerce business. I would be like a fuck boy asking people questions on the street. You think so? 100%. At 20. And then you would do an e-commerce business when you're 29.

Hey, what's time? Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Daughter, gay son. Like that would be you at like 19. And then you would evolve out of it. Right, right. I agree.

I think there's a lot of those kids that like, yeah, they see a couple different paths and they see ways. And now the entertainment is kind of democratized. Yeah. That is like a viable way. Yeah. Whereas in your time, even fucking 10 years ago, it was not an option.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, which is kind of crazy to think about. But I remember that feeling being like, yo, I don't know anyone doing anything cool. And the idea of trying to do entertainment was just like, like, my dad and people in my family just being like, bro, work is a thing you have to do that no one likes. And just being like paralyzed by that idea. And so I was always trying to like hedge my bet. Like, I'm going to do entertainment, but like keep it professional.

So I was like intern at the laugh factory. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to be as close to the thing as possible, but never fully jump in. You are very responsible. You are very... Too responsible. You are a very hard worker.

You're a very like, you know, you're a lot of ways you're by the book. Like you really, you see how it's supposed to be done and you do it very well. Yeah, that's true. You know what I mean? Like you see what needs to be done. I'm trying to do that less. You get a lot of that from Drew. You get a lot of that from Andrew Schultz.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, he's like the master of this like strategy, like understanding what's to do coupled with like, yeah, fucking generational talent. Maybe you don't always want to make a thumbnail with a goofy face. But like that's what is happening now. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? So I said this on flagrant.

I'm like, you just work with what you have in the times, the historical times that you exist. Yeah. Like if this were the 80s, we'd have shoulder pads on and we'd be like doing, you know, observational humor about the subway at these comedy clubs, right? And it would be dope as fuck. But that's just not, that's not the reality anymore. I can't be a Coke kingpin. There is no more kingpin.

You know what I mean? The drug business is. been flattened. Wait, why? Because there's so many different drugs, because there's, because nobody's a kingpin anymore, unless you're, you know, one of the three cartels in Mexico. Because there's, you know, there's just, A, there's less demand overall. There's more demand for drugs. There's less demand for one kind of drug. Really? For sure. For sure. I guess that makes it. Like back in the day, it was like heroin, weed, coke slash crack. Those are the good days. Those are the good old days in the 80s when unique existed, right? Now everybody wants fentanyl and fucking synodels. And, you know,

synthetic weed and yes there's coke heroin but heroin's cut up with fentanyl it's like it's I just use drugs as an example of like well you just have to make make do with what you have that's why I sold weed because like that's what was working yeah you know and I got very lucky yeah and this might be a stupid question but like were you not responsible as a kid I was not a troublemaker but I was not responsible I was a liar I was a fucking it was all rebellion against my father to be honest with you, but I was... Despite there not being any animosity towards him. Now there isn't, but no, back then, he was a very like verbally abusive person,

sometimes physically abusive, you know, old school, wacky across the head. Yeah. And that's what got me lying. It started with dishonesty, right? And so I discovered that lying could get you out of trouble. So it just progressed. And then I would get caught lying and he would get more. mad at me and get more distrustful of me and get more kind of like disappointed in me were you

religious at all grown up not you know catholic until everybody drops out sixth grade or whatever but that idea of like don't lie was not like ingrained in you no any significant no no no no no i never thought god was watching when i fucking jerked off or keistered a drug balloon so fine i'm the exact opposite you always think god's watch i'm the first time jerking off just like crying literally like like there was like a like the when I discover jerkin off and then like for two months after that being like oh my god what am I doing like how could I do like literally like having like emotional breakdowns of like the uh yeah like this moralistic guilt coupled with it yeah I don't I think you have a personality type that is like inherently like uh like conflict based almost like I feel like you are like you're

not like there's like agreeable and disagreeable personality types and I don't think that you are like overly agreeable just as like a matter of course coupled with a parent that is like aggressive you're like no fuck you whereas like my parents were not aggressive but like had i had an aggressive parent i think i would have been more likely to capitulate whereas you were like now yeah i'm gonna go i'm gonna retreat into my world and my environment and fuck you and i'm never going to come back and see you i'm never going to visit you yeah he was a real shitty parent you know just strategically like you like he did everything wrong yeah you know what i mean um Did it change your mindset on like parenting or having kids?

Yeah, I didn't want any of it back then. Oh, really? I'm like, oh my God, you gotta bang this fucking ball and chain, mom. Every day, whatever. I don't think he was fucking her every day, dude. Not that cheap skate. But, you know, and just like, man, it's just the life is just, it felt like prison. Every day is the same, right?

And that, you know, obviously like as a little kid, it was, you know, you're just joyous. But like, yeah, starting from like fifth grade on, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm I got to, I got to do something different. You know, I got to get out of this town. That disagreeability. Is that fair to say? I don't want to like. Yeah, yeah.

I would say so. No, no, no, I like that. But like, do you think that that is, do you ever, did you ever feel like that was wrong? Like, did you ever think like, man, why am I this way that if someone tells me to do something, I don't want to do it? Um, yeah, I, but I wouldn't think about it in those terms. I'd be like, how could you be so stupid? How'd you get caught? Hmm.

So it was a real lack of character that I had. had that I had to that I was forced to like when I went to prison that I was forced to confront and it was like a stunted like there was some stunting of growth I would say in a lot of ways yeah and I wonder if you had like been put into some type of program early like not literally a program but like you were playing basketball and stuff yeah like were the teams giving you not even team sports because I wanted to score all the points it's always been about me, me, me, me, me. You know, I've always been like I had that stand-up comic personality where it's like, we could win, but if I didn't go for like 25, then I was pissed off.

Yeah, you lost. You know what I mean? You personally lost. Exactly. And that's not a great mentality for team sports. That's why I love tennis, though. Like, my dad saw that he got me to tennis because it's like, this is, this is all me. I loved, I loved, I never, I abhorred group think. You know what I mean? Right. Like, I don't even like being in groups now. I don't like, you know, having big groups of friends. I always did back in the day because Portland was such a tight-knit community and I'm grateful for that

but they get exhausting to me. So, you know, I always felt like I had to break out, break out of the pack. It was always that guy. And for you, how much of that do you think was nature versus nurture? Like, did the family environment make you more like staunchly individualistic

or did you yourself just find yourself being that way off rip? That's such a great question. I think it was, I think it was off rip, man. I think it was, you know, obviously nurture is, is a big part of, like molds who you are from nature, right? But yeah, I've always naturally been contrarian.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And what have you done like since prison now? Because obviously that personality type can get you far in some capacities, but also like really hinder you in other capacities. Mm-hmm. What kind of like things have you implemented to try to be like, you know, more of like, quote,

unquote, a team player, be more like collaborative? and things like that. Because you seem collaborative now. Like you're helping me with this show. You like link me up a unique. Like you seem very forthcoming and giving. It was a book I read because I have a big reader. It was a book I read called The Science of Getting Rich.

Read this book. It's like a hundred pages. Yeah. And it was written. But the title of it is exactly something that like young Johnny would be looking for. Of course. I'm going to get rich. And I read it.

Fuck everyone. I'm going to get rich. And I, but the book is completely the opposite of fuck everyone. That was the whole thing. It was. written like 120 years ago. Like remember, you know the book Think and Grow Rich? Yeah, yeah. That's, again, a book written by one of these guys in like the 1920s. And one of the main premises of the

book was move from competition, move your mind from competition to creation. Like, there's enough. There's enough for everybody. Yes, you may not be able to get rich selling coal. You know what I mean? Not a lot of people using coal anymore. Yeah, yeah, Santa. That's pretty much, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Green, the Green energy is fucking Santa. You know what I mean? But you can get rich somehow if you create and you provide value. You charge a man less than what your product is valued for. Right?

My product, my podcast is worth five bucks, but you only have to pay $199 for Patreon or whatever. You know what I mean? So when I moved my mind from competition to creation, that changed. It changed everything. It changed things. It changed the way I interacted with comedians and show business and power dynamics. It's helped me let go of ego, right? And it's, you know, it's, I don't know, my career's moving now.

Yeah, it's better off with it. Yeah. I'm doing better. I'm taking off. Yeah, which I completely understand the other side of it. I think I am sort of the opposite in a lot of ways. Like I think growing up very religious instilled a lot of that in me where like it was always like give give more than you have yeah if you only have five bucks give six like

amazing find a way to do it amazing and in ways i almost get insecure because i feel like it holds me back where i'm like if i was more of a narcissist i can just fuck everyone and just go for but i'm like i think because of a really religious upbringing that like for me probably just the way i am naturally like i don't necessarily have that i have to like consciously be like oh i'm going to turn down helping someone to do something for myself you know what i mean whereas like almost going the other way, which it seems like kind of you have, which is like a little bit more like self-centered, selfish as a kid, and then learning like, yo, let's be more collaborative, let's help people a lot, which you've done. I guess it maybe gets you to the same place. But that way almost feels,

I don't know. I'm curious what you think. Is it easier, you think? Like to go from like, okay, I'm in my world and I'm going to open it up versus like, okay, I got to focus on me. Yeah, it's weird, right? Because you think about the dirtiest, most narcissistic business, politics. Yeah. Right? How do I ascend the political, ladder. That seems like if you're selfless at all, you're going to be fucked, right? You always need to be doing stuff for people as long as it's going to come back to you. I hate that. So we would not do well. So I think, I think that's just not for us, right? You do what's for you. Everybody does what's for you. You do what you're good at and you do what you're just

pushed towards doing, right? And then you'll end up where you're at. As long as you can accept it. Yeah. If you wanted to be in politics, like, you couldn't accept that you're not in politics. You're not built for politics. You'd have a miserable life. Yeah. How many people are in stand-up comedy not meant to be in show business? Yeah, probably a lot. Almost exclusively, right? Yeah. So, but they just can't accept. Everybody's got a talent, but you have to be, you have to accept it. So, yeah, that's interesting. I think, I mean, that's the better, the way you were raised is just, it's such a better way to be. It just, you just, you avoid so much, you avoid so much just inner hell by having an operating system that is giving first. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I didn't go to prison. Yeah. But how did you, how did you get like that? Would you do religion or was it your parents? I think both. I think also being in a big family, like it's inherently collaborative. Like everyone's kind of doing something. Yeah, I had my orderlies. So even as a kid, it was just that. And then yeah, I really think it was religion. I don't know. I think partially just kind of the way I am. Were you poor or like lower middle class? No, my family did well. Like we had a lot of siblings so like the money would be distributed. So like I got a car from like my brother when he didn't need it anymore.

That's how we did it. Yeah, that's how we did it. Yeah. But it was like a minivan. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So much.

It was fat though, bro. Took all the seats out of it. Really? Yeah. Oh, that's the under bucket. Yeah. That's some shit.

You drive home 240 ounces deep. Dude, it was the best. And you just fly by a cop and he doesn't even look. Honda Odyssey. I would like I had lights in it I had the couch in the back I got a mini couch from like a kid that was in college put it in the back seat

You're like an old black guy named Earl bro here's the best part All black guys got vans And then I leveled up for the van Guess what car I got next? Christa 300 Yes Oh my God dude

Wow But it was always that kind of shit We're like pure South Ford But I loved going For real I loved going to parties And so I would like Go to these house parties

In like an abandoned house Or like a house that's for sale That some kid kicked the lock in And like everyone's going crazy There's like 300 kids just like getting shit-faced, but I wouldn't drink. Yeah. So I was always hedging.

Whereas like, okay, we're going to go to this thing. Like my friends would be dealing weed out of the apartment. And I'd be around, but I would never touch it. I'd never smoked. What did you, what was your thought process like getting into stand-up comedy? Like, how did you end up working with this kind of operation? And it's like, are you thinking, you must be thinking practically? Yeah.

You're like, I'm going to go to New York. I mean, it's a big step. You're in the big city, New York City. I'm going to survive this way and at the same time doing stand-up over here. Yeah, but like stand-up was always strategic. So, like, I loved it as a kid. I was, like, obsessed with it. And it was like a way that, like, me and my parents really bonded.

Oh, wow. My dad, his dream was always to be a comic. He always wanted to be a stand-up comic since he was, like, little. Do you ever know this when the pussy stink? Yeah, literally. And like, my dad is like a South Florida, like, he's from Montreal, but like, he's a South Florida guy. I didn't even realize it until we went to Miami.

But, like, his whole day, he's, like, doing phone calls, lays out. in the sun, works out, it's a huge pump. Like, he's just like, he's a Cuban. He's like, Kibon, you know what I'm saying? But like, but he loves stand-up. And so would always like, my first, like, iPod, the first album on there was like Jim Gaffigan and Seinfeld. Yeah.

Or like, that's like, there was just stand-up on the, on my iPod. And so I'm just listening to it over and over. Like, that was the only thing on. And then we would like drive to like math competitions when I'm in elementary school. And I would recite the entire album. Wow.

Front to back. And then like, I would drive to soccer terms with my mom. And Laf USA was on like, serious X-M or whatever, and it would just be playing nonstop. That was the only thing we listened to. And so it was just like instilled as a kid, but then it was always hedging because I never knew anyone to stand-up. You're right. Like I knew one guy that did open mics that I would like DM on Facebook, like Facebook Messenger, like, hey, can I do open mics? But it was always strategic, always hedging. And then I was just like doing it a bunch like through college and then linked up with Schultz

just like open for him on a show. Yeah. And then like kind of gave him a spiel like, hey, give me a shot. And like if it doesn't work out, that's cool. But like, let me just like sell merch for you or something. And like in trade, like can I open some of the shows? Like let me host. Let me do five minutes. And it just became like a perfect pairing. And obviously he's just the best and like took care of me and like mentored me through the whole thing. Yeah. So I got really lucky in that regard. But do you think in your mind, do you think in your mind like maybe I won't make it? So here's like the fallback. Always. That's how I think all the time. Yeah. Same. Absolutely. I'm like, okay, what if I'm like, you know, is there, can I be an insurance guy?

Like if I say like dick sucking too much will out effect like this other thing. You know what I'm saying? Like so yeah, I'm always in that mode of like hedging. So I think that will be your arc. That will be that will be your little obstacle, your little mountain to climb. 100% is to when like you believing in yourself. Yeah. To the level where you're like, oh, yeah.

No, no. Next year is going to be better than this year. And the year after that. I'm about to be to the moon. And I'm a little stupidly optimistic with that stuff where like things are going great. And I'm like really happy. And like this show is awesome. Even if no one watches it, I would do this every day.

Like just connected with human beings is like my favorite thing on the planet. But yeah, it's still like I remember having a moment like maybe two years ago, kind of like what I call like my face tattoo moment where I was like I got the face tattoo. Like proverbially speaking. Like I'm not going back to a regular life. Like the idea of just like having a nine to five is off the table. So now it's only recently that that's happened kind of for me, which seems kind of crazy maybe for someone that's like. like doing open mics in Orlando still seeing where I was at being like, bro,

like you've already face tattooed while ago. You're going to be fine. But in the back of my mind, it's still scarcity. Like, I got to be good. Yeah. But yeah, it's always collaborative. It's always like, if anyone needs help with whatever, I enjoy that.

And I think that's a Christian value that got to still. You hang on to that. You hang on to that. But when you listen to real bosses, there's never like, there's never a doubt. They're like, this is what I'm going to do because the business will be there. Yeah.

So that kind of mindset is just so rare that I really believe it, man. And the drug game taught me that. If it were not for the drug game, I couldn't, I probably wouldn't have that entrepreneur's mind. Because I literally thought, it started with a thought when I was 16 years old. And me and Reggie, we can say his name because we forgot to bleep it on flagrant. And he's like, it's fine, dude. We copped our first ounce of weed and we fucked the bag up and, you know, we end up smoking. smoking it and you know we owed a guy money we owed the fucking drug dealer money now but I I was

like we're gonna be fucking huge like we're gonna be like we're gonna be drug kingpins yeah and it was just such an insane thought like how could a guy from a middle class Portland Oregon you have no criminal connections like you don't even know people to buy this shit yeah but just like just just embedding that in my mind and never it was always in my subconscious right like six years later, I'm, I'm making 50 grand a week, sometimes more, pushing, moving pot all over the country. Yeah. I mean, with Dominicans in Washington Heights, negotiating prices, like, do you think that could have gotten beat out of you? Had you got, like, fast-tracked into, like, some nine to five, like, you know, you're, let's say you start interning when you're 18 and then you're just,

like, working out of a finance firm. Yeah. Like, could that have been beaten out? You were like, that's what I'm saying. So I don't know if the drug game even taught you it, or if you just realized is what was internally in you. You know what I'm saying? Right. Like, I feel like you would have done that regardless. Like, sure, sure. But it was, it was a way for me to see that, like, you can bring into creation what

you think about, like what the Bible says, what man thinketh, he become, you know? And that's really like, I was like, wow, okay, so if I could do this, I can apply this to something else. So, yeah, I'm like, if it hadn't been drugs, like, if you came up now and you found up like this crypto shit or something, like, if someone just was like, hey, do you want to sell Amway? Right. I wonder if you would have just gotten into that track and then become an entrepreneur in

some other capacity. If I could see that there was money in it, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you just had a mentor that was a businessman that had like an interesting entrepreneurial kind of job. Yeah. If you would have been like, all right, yeah, I can fucking make money and get my high through

this. Drugs just happened to be the first thing that came on your lap. Oh, for sure, for sure. If there was something that I could do where just like drugs, there's really no barrier to entry. There's no business license because I'm not like that. I'm not organized. You know what I mean?

This just like purely capitalistic thing. Trading fucking, you know, Forex currency, whatever, you know, these little 18 year olds that are looking at screens all day do. Yeah. Yeah. As long as I can see that there's money in it,

like I'd be at that, you know? Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, you just like high risk. Yes. Like you like gambling. But dude, do you gamble gamble?

But I'm not a gambler, though. That's what's wild. It's like I take calculated risk. It's not, I'm not like a lot of these cats, you know, famously that make millions of dollars, but that all goes out the door, you know, gambling on like higher and higher and higher stakes. What I did was a calculated risk. It was a thing that just formed on accident. Right.

Me really like seeing that I was like, oh, shit, I'm about to make millions. Right? Like I was like, oh, it's on. When I met the buyers on the East Coast and I found out what they were going to pay per unit, right and I was like oh quick math I'm like that is that's a hundred grand a month easy like like on an average month oh I'm about to become rich has like to me that was like that was like I knew a Brinks truck was backing up yeah to unload I'm like that's just a I'm I'm gonna go get it and look it's 50 50 but if I get if if I fail I'm I'm gonna have to

sit out I knew I was gonna have to go to prison that shaking it all for you like the insatiable desire for money yeah somewhat Like as you've gotten money, like you've had like different amounts of crazy money in your life. Like like has that faded at all? Um, yes, because, you know, I got it too quick and you really don't appreciate it when you get it that quick. And that because it becomes like a fake number, especially in cash. Yeah. You're like, you just almost forget about the money.

Unique was talking about that too. When you get so much money, you're weighing it. Like, it just becomes, it's just paper that gets stashed and hidden and losing. value. Yeah. Like you don't. I had no respect for money. Mm-hmm.

Now, you know, making 10 grand doing online shit, feels like making $100 grand in the drug game, right? Interesting. Yeah. Because in my mind, again, growing up, the idea, like money was almost like a, like it was a good thing to have, but it was almost like a dirty thing. Mm-hmm. Like.

It's very middle class. Yeah. It's very middle class. Jewish people don't talk about money that way. Yeah. Jews people love talking about money. Yeah. They'll talk about it with aunts and uncles.

They're open with it. That's why they're so good. good with it. They're like what? Everybody's got to have it. Yeah. So let's just talk about it. The idea was always just have enough and then shut your mouth. Yes, exactly. And like help people when you can, but like don't like, what is the point of like talking with money being extremely ostentatious? Yes. Right. So it wasn't hard for me to shake that idea of like money, money, like it never was a big motivator. And so I've always been of the mind that like money is not going to make me happy. I saw a lot of people with money. Like I went to a very wealthy school

where like I went to Rollins College in Orlando. It's like the, it's extremely. It's extremely expensive tuition's fucking insane and I'm going to school with kids that are like flying private back home to like go to you know dinners with like their dad who's an attorney for a president like that kind of shit and how miserable they were early on I almost had the opposite thing where like I didn't have any money like had a decent living growing up but like just seeing all these people with money that were fucking dying right like OVD yeah the head of like it's some insurance company that just fucking kills himself oh wow and I was like oh like just having a lot of money is not a good M.O. in general. And so for me, that's, it's always been a motivation to have enough.

That's like a bare metal. But it was never like I need to get like, I, even at this very moment, as I said here, I don't have this, like, this grand idea of like, oh, I'm going to make 20 million. That's, I don't think that's going to happen. Okay. Maybe it will. Like, again, I don't think it will or won't. But like, I don't have this like burning desire to get that. You don't have kids though, either yet. No. So, you know, you have a kid and then, then the panic will be, But then I'm curious too because like all my siblings have kids. I have 15 nieces and nephews. Wow. And I'm almost like we all know this spoiled rich kid and having a ton of money is not good for kids either. Right. So I'm like as long as I have enough for them. Yeah, that's true. I can go move to like a

mountain somewhere. Yeah. And have like a little like polite living but still be able to do the dream and like connect with people and do stand up. Yeah. That would be enough. That's pretty dope. Which is I think a healthy mindset. But at the same time, I do think it's like sometimes a hindrance to like quote unquote greatness. I think you got to shoot for the moon and then you come come a little short. That's all right. But that moon for me is not financial. Yeah. Like I'm curious, like, as you've made more and more money and like you're making great money now, like, I wonder if it's shifted or how, do you think it'll shift more? As you're like, yo, what if I have slightly less money, but like I get to work this hour out and like this joke is better?

Yes. Or like my show is better, even if it makes me this percent yes. I would rather have a well-oiled business than make the most amount of profit. I would actually rather have it be more passive, right? Just like I would take less money off of each pound, off the brick, if it meant somebody else was driving and going to pick it up. Yeah. And, you know, it's just...

Yeah, that's a calculation. So I would much rather have something that's a machine and spread the wealth around then, you know, have to work as hard as I'm working just to make the money that I'm making, right? So yes, I'd rather the goal, of course, is to connect with people doing stand-up. Like, I really just want to be able to kill, right? Yes, I want to be able to kill.

I don't want to feel like I'm, like, baiting you into the question. No, no, no, no, no. These are good questions. But like... But like... But I would not kill. There'd be no motivation to kill

if there weren't a financial goal attached to it. Like, I really... I've been thinking about this lately. I'm like, yes, stand up. I don't know. I may have to quitting stand up, to be honest with you. Like for sure, like there's a level, like maybe of like the 20 year mark. Like if I've put out two killer fucking hours on YouTube and I got a podcast like this or something like that, right?

I've sold some shows. I feel like I got one of the coolest fucking shows, which I'm proud of. You know what I mean? Like I'm really, really proud of it. So when I feel like, oh, I'm scared to like spend the money that's, going to take to go down to Columbia. I'm like, wait a minute, dude, this is once in a fucking lifetime. You know what I mean? What if you win the lottery? Let's say you make literally $500 million. Oh, it'd be terrible. I'd never want to win the lottery. Are you kidding me?

But let's say hypothetically that happened. You have a great aunt that dies and she's the president of some fucking... Right. She leaves me a half a B? Literally, yeah, 500 million. Yeah, I mean, I would, I would make the coolest shit. You know what I mean? I'd make all the television that doesn't get made anymore. I'd make the movies that can't get made because of, you know, all of these factors that we know about. So yeah, that's what I do. I would just, you know, I would just make as much art as possible. And how much would you not work? Um, because that's a lot of work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I think, I think that would be like the rest of my life. You know, I would, I would be, I would be supervising the script and everybody else would have a duty. And I would just be the

creative. Yeah. I would just be like, you know, the guy sitting behind the desk, paying actresses, or, you know, promising actresses jobs just so they'd blow them. You know what I mean? Yeah. fire, dude. The dream. Fuck yeah. Dude, for the dream. Like, who do you think has the best life? Like, if there's a guy

you could trade lives with right now, who do you think that is? The best life. Yeah. The best life is the guy who's really, who's really content. The best life is the guy

that you probably never hear about. You know what I mean? It's the guy, my dad's got a pretty great life. Yeah. Because his ambitions were only to leave Cleveland, Ohio.

Yeah. And as he's grown out of like the midlife crisis that he was having back in those days that caused him to be such a dick to his family. He's now like he's got a boat and he's going to go up to the San Juan Islands up in northern Canada and he's just going to be a loner and he just loves it. He loves the beauty, loves looking at whales. I mean, that's truly it. And when you're in prison, when I was in prison, I could reach some of those moments sometimes where the funk was off, nobody was beefing.

everybody got their drug fix so everybody was mellow I'm not thinking about oh how am I gonna how am I gonna make it in LA right mourning the loss of like money yeah right

that was basically not even mine to begin with yeah I was like man I'm just sitting here chilling this is really fucking nice yeah you know because there's no there's no and that's why people

get institutionalized because you're just like I'm living for the day there's really no the state is taking care of me and there's a lot of structure. Yeah,

organized. That's what Andre was saying that. He's like, when I got out of prison, there would be a few, a couple, like a week or two later, he would drive to the top of the mountain where he could see the prison and he would just sit in his car and look at it. Yeah. And long for the days that he could just be kind of taken care of life was structured. Things were organized.

Yeah. And it was kind of simple. Everything made sense. Simplicity. Yeah. So knowing that, though, like, that's what I'm constantly trying to balance. Like, I love that moment of just like, you know, contemplation, like free, chill. Yeah.

like the idea of having a bunch of kids and just living in a fucking ranch somewhere. Yeah. So how do you get to where Andre, right? Yeah. How do you get to that without actually having to be in prison? That's what I'm trying to balance. And then also like the massive ambitions that I have balancing that with like, will those make me happy?

And oftentimes I'm like, the more money I have to a point won't make me happy. Or like all this like, you know, success or fame or whatever things come along with being great at a task or a job. Yeah. those I don't think will make me happy. I think like having kids being connected to my family, like getting off the grid and being able to do podcasts and stand-up. Yeah.

That'll make you happy. Yeah. The stand-up shit, the show business won't make you happy. So knowing that as a 26-year-old, I'm like, okay, how do I balance? And I'm curious, like, what your journey with that is, knowing that, like, those kind of like, the complacency is kind of happiness, but you're not a complacent human being. Yeah. I haven't figured it out, Mark.

Yeah. I don't know yet. I don't know. I'm really just kind of, I'm taking everything as it comes. yeah and I'm I'm I'm and that includes my work my my my my my my my my my spiritual work yeah so I don't know yet I there's a lot of I'm like 10 years older than you but like I'm five years younger than you know what I mean I'm just way behind that you know what I mean I'm just a late bloomer yeah but blooming late is great yeah like slow down young man you know what I mean like

you're doing you're married already like like take your fucking time life is so long life is way too long. But that was one of the reasons why I wasn't hooking up and fucking all these chicks. Yeah. Because I was like, I'd seen that in high school and like random hookups with girls. I was like, oh, this is like sugar. Like, this made me feel really good in a very small amount of time.

And I could see the writing on the wall of like, oh, this pursuit of like small fixes, kind of like sometimes manipulating a girl and telling you love her but you don't actually to get her to hook up with you. Like the scumbag shit is hurting other people, kind of detain.

deteriorating me emotionally and spiritually because it's not actually nourishing me. It's making me feel good for a very short period of time and then I'm looking for the next hit. Whereas if I can find like a real nourishing human being to like build a life with, I'm like, oh, that is going to make me way happier. And so far I has. How long you've been married? Like three, almost three years. And did you hook up in high school? Is that what you're trying to tell me? Did you ever get laid? Have you ever fucked anybody else besides your wife? Just my wife? So you're like Jeremiah Watkins. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Ample opportunity. Yeah. But, but. But again, like, when I was hooking up with other girls, it was like, it was really unfulfilling.

Yeah. And I could see that being like, oh, this is a drug. And I can see how that is not good. So I was like, yo, let me just build a life now. I found an awesome girl and she's great and I could build a life. Yeah. And like, that to me is nourishing. So me and you are not the same, my man.

Me and you are not the same. Because I'm only now getting off the streets when it comes to pussy. The same reason I was, you know, I had to take it taken off the street. with drugs, I'm just running out of wind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just getting tired. Yeah, but you can fuck girls without doing any of this shit. You can just chill at your house and just hook up a girls.

Like, have you found it to be less fulfilling as time has gone on? Of course, of course. That's why you're like, yeah, I mean, it was tough because like I started getting better and better women, you know, as I get older and older, which is that what's what's what they don't tell you? You know what I mean? The less your dick works, the more chicks want it. You know what I mean?

It's fucking weird. So, but, well, that's good. But, you know, then, yeah, then just, yeah, then just, you know, then just, you know, just take it for what it is and then keep it moving just day after day yeah take it day for day yeah you know yeah i do i get paranoid about it though and what like the complacency versus the ambition in the way that you were talking about no no no ambition is today yeah you know focus today there's there's enough to do today you know what i mean that's why a war and being in prison it's like i just got to survive today yeah you know what i mean like like you know what i mean like

Like I gotta get this fucking drug balloon unnecessarily shoved in my ass. I gotta get this to the kitchen without catching another case. Like that's, I got enough to worry about. Yeah. So you got enough to do today. And the presence is nice. Yeah, because, and then you'll just see how fast you grow when you take care of today's tasks.

You ever meditate? Yeah. I got into it in prison. Oh, cool. Yeah. And I've, and I've, sometimes I fall off. Like right now I'm in a, I'm in a fall off period because this fucking YouTube shit's cracking.

So I'm like, fuck you God. Suck my dad. Yeah, fucking. But yeah, no, no, no. A meditation changed my life. Really? Yeah. In what capacity?

In just kind of like what I'm describing to you, like being able to live, being free when you're doing it in the process, but then also achieving residual peace of mind and clarity, you know, for however long that lasts. You know, I'm of the belief that when I manifest and I can't calculate it. but I'm a belief if I'm really meditating and manifesting every day, that lasts like three to six months. Oh, yeah. Seriously, like what you think about now, you will see manifest at the end of this year. 100%.

I completely believe that. Yeah. And the tricky thing, though, is so many of my friends that are doing this are manifesting things that they don't want. Really? Where, like, they'll manifest money. They'll manifest, like, women. And then they get the thing they've always wanted and then they hate themselves more. Wow.

Interesting. Like, how do you manifest like a family? I manifest numbers. Right. I manifest numbers. That's what I do. I don't put the dollar amount on it. I say,

we're going to get this many subscribers, this many views. This is going to allow me to get this. Like stand, because I know that'll all bring in money because the goal is a family. Yeah. Like the whole goal,

the whole thing we're doing here is just to get enough money to fucking raise some kids and then die. No, that's not your goal. No, that is my goal. Your goal is trying to get the fucking bag.

Yeah, of course. But the bag, all that is is being too obsessed with survival. Right. Because I just want a huge bag. It's all just survival. Like this huge giant metal building we're in. That's just the epitome of surviving. You know what I'm saying?

Because we come from, you know, deer skin in front of our loins and fires. Yeah. And just staying out of the rain. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So that's, it's just. mega survival. And you think you want to have kids now? You definitely, most definitely.

100%. And what do you have like? I've always wanted that. But you were saying before like when you were younger, you're like, you know, kids. But I'm just like, how is it ever going to deep down? I always was it loved the idea of love. But I'm like, how is that ever really going to happen? I never believed it. I never believed it. So I'm like, yeah. Being in love. Yeah, exactly. I was, it was totally foreign, totally, uh, totally something that I didn't experience until much later than most people because I had all this drug money. You know what I mean? I had all this.

I'm like, how can I share this with a partner? You know what I mean? Did it make you happy all the drug money? No. At a certain point, no. Now the fucking the adrenaline was sick though. You know what I mean? Taking fucking jets in Columbia, that was sick, right?

Like that was, it felt like it was a roller coaster that I'll never feel again. You know what I mean? Even like killing in front of a pack crowd, it didn't really, it didn't really, it didn't, doesn't really compare to the the feeling of beating society. Because when you sell drugs and get away with it, when you move pounds across the country and it gets there successfully. Yeah. Sucking Rudy Gianni.

Exactly. Thousands of people, thousands would have unseen the invisible hand of the free market. Conspiring against you. No, sucking up my drugs. Oh, I see. That's power.

The government's inspiring against you. Exactly, but I just beat them. Yeah. This hand, right? Yeah, yeah. Of course, long term, the house will win. Yeah. But I beat them.

It's really hard to match that. Yeah. Can I have one of those? Have you done these before? No. No, I've never done these. I hope you don't throw up. Do you, um, oh, there is nicotine in them. It's only nicotine.

Uh, after this, I'm going to walk around as the sun's going down, just smoking weed. Like, to me, New York is a perfect happiness. Like the way that you want to go out to the woods and raise a bunch of kids, you know, feed them goat milk and have an Amish wife. Yeah, exactly. Literally. Yeah. You nailed that. Yeah.

Yeah. You want to be like a man a night? Those people are happy. That's, yeah, I think those people are probably happy. Well, some of them are right. They're fucking women don't look happy. They look pale and gross. And my wife is miserable too.

Yeah, I'm happy. Yeah, I'm happy though. So that's me walking around like New York. And I've been here, I can't tell you how many times I've been in New York, spent time in New York. But like when I'm on the plane coming from wherever I'm coming and I hate flying and when I see those fucking city lights, still like it makes me almost start weeping. So I'm like, oh, at least I get to see her again. Oh wow.

That's what New York City is to me. Would you move here? I would. I would. But part of me is like, God, I don't know if it would kill that like specialness I have for it. That, you know, she's like an affair, right? Yeah. She's like an affair with like an older Latin woman who just like strokes you and takes care of you and like answers questions.

Yeah. Like, oh, you want to get married? Well, you love this girl. You love her. I give you my blessing, you know? Yeah. But you come back and fuck me, you know? Well, you got too old to fuck.

You can. That's the thing I like about New York is the humanity. I like being around people. Yeah. Like that would be the ideal setup is like someplace like 30 minutes away. Yeah. Ten acres. Mm-hmm.

And then all the most interesting cool. people in the world can come hang out with me. And then I get to drive in and do spots. Right. And then go back out. There's plenty of land, dude. You go get it, man. I'm so close. You'll get that. I'm so close to literally just like 45 minutes out, try to get some acres and then just put like a motorhome. Wow. Like a nice one. Like a nice RV. You're that guy that's going to have a motorhome or how much money you have. You're still not going to be able to get away from the swamp. It's always the minivan, dude. I'm just always trying to be in the minivan. Oh, you make me sick. Are these making me sick? Let's go. You make me sick.

I thought it was me, you're like, bleh. No, I'm hiccuping now off this. You feel a little buzz going? I feel fine. Do you want water? Can I get a water? Yeah. Now I'm buzzing.

Let's go. Let's go, Johnny. See, it's like when you do shrooms. Yeah. For the first hour, have you ever done shrooms? I haven't actually. You should do shrooms. You want to be out on all those acres?

I feel like I am shrooms a little. You should do. You are shrooms, bro. I'm shrews. shocked you haven't done them. Yeah. But I am. I'm going to. I'm going to, but it has to be the right setting. I'm trying to like set my intentions for it. I don't want to like party. I like, I like to use drugs to inform my sobriety. You know what I'm saying? Like I did Molly at Burning Man. That was awesome. That was so fun. And then I was just telling. That was a good trip for you guys. Oh, it's the best. And I'm going back to the term. I'm so excited. But like my jaw was going

crazy. I was telling everyone I loved them. And I was with all these people I love. I was with Schultz and Dove and the whole crew. And I was just like, man, I love you guys. And I wasn't faking it. I was saying how I actually felt. Yeah. And then three days later, I never had a sad come down. I was never depressed. I just called my mom. And I was like, hey, mom, I love you so much.

Yeah. And I should tell you more. And so I'm using Molly to try to inform how I feel when I'm sober. So that's a perfect way to use psychedelics. I, when I do shrooms, I never let my brain go fully, just fully let go. How many grams are you done? When you start off, when first time, just do two grams. Yeah.

You'll be nice. Yeah. You'll be frying. You'll be you'll be fucked up. Okay. But you're not going to be hallucinating. You're not going to be seeing things. You're not going to be talking to God.

It's a body high. It's a body high first because it's poison, right? Some mushrooms coursing through. I'm going to get rid of these hiccups in a second. Maybe you should do them alone. Yeah. You should probably just do them alone. Because you might puke.

I puked when I used to first start doing shrooms in college because your defense mechanism is you're going to want to throw this poison up. Yeah. So you'll throw up. and then you'll feel incredible. And then you'll be like, okay, I'm good. Yeah. Just don't panic.

Yeah. So anything, do not panic. Yeah. You're not dying. I've gotten anxious on weed before where like, I'll smoke. But you know you're not going to die smoking weed. But I'm just like, I need to go home and go to sleep. Like I don't want to be around these people anymore.

I got to get out of here. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He wouldn't feel like that way on trumes. Really? Yeah. Probably not. Okay.

Yeah. And I know in my conscience, I'm like, no one's ever died on shrimp. It's impossible to overdose on this. Yeah. Worst case scenario, you're just having a crazy trip. Yeah, and you're going to get them from somebody who's got good shrooms. So you're not going to get anything. You're not going to get, need a liver transplant.

You're going to be fine. Yeah. I would do them. I would do them. You're gay if you don't. That's what I'm saying. Honestly, you're fucking gay. Kind of bothered.

It doesn't bother me. You fucked one woman, even though that is just insane. But the fact you haven't done shrooms is a little, it's settled down, Mitchell. Yeah, you got to get a grip. You're judging me for not doing shrooms. You can't even control a hiccum. You can't even do a zinn. I can't even do a zoon.

He's in, bro. He's like, dude, come on. Do what's happened to me, bro? Fucking do some fucking blow. But, um, but yeah, I'm curious. Like, when you do shrooms, are you never like, oh, this money stuff is dumb? Like, we can, like, get enough and let me achieve my dreams, but like, yes. No, no, no, I don't think this money stuff. It's not that I'm dumb, like, the money stuff is dumb. I'm like, oh, you're fine. It's not like things are going to be okay. It's like things are okay. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So the, the real fucking mindset is like,

your boss, Andy Schultz, that motherfucker is not afraid to spend. Yeah. You know what I mean? He spends because it's like, I know I'm getting it back. I know I'm getting it back. And if this all goes belly up, it doesn't matter. I get the next thing. Yeah.

I think about that with my show. You know, like I get haters in the comments. I'm like, you think this is all I got? This is just the fucking tip. Wait till I put the whole shaft in. You know what I mean? See, that's what I feel, but I hedge it with other life shit where I'm like, so like even just like the cams and all this stuff, it was like,

a decent investment for me. I was like, okay. Are these your cameras? Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. So I was like, yeah, this is like... It is a decent investment. So I was like, yeah, it's a little chunk of change, but I'm like, if all this goes belly up and this thing doesn't work, I will do a different thing. Yeah. And if even if that doesn't work, I'm just going to keep trying until I die. Yeah. Ultimately, connecting with humans and doing cool shit and stand-up is the only thing I really care about. And if that doesn't make any money, that's kind of okay. Yeah. Because ultimately, I know that my happiness is going to be with my kids and my family on the ranch. So, and that's what, but that all comes from your mind. You know what I mean? So like trying

things will be fine and, and just knowing that is hedging. You don't have to hedge as practically as you do. You do if you hedge your own mind. Be like, it doesn't matter because like I have a woman who loves me and I am connected and I'm living day to day. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's kind of how I feel where I'm like, I don't have this thought that like, oh, if this fails, I know we're talking about before like if this fails like everything's over. I'm just like there's it's impossible for the fail because I'm not going to quit. You know what I'm saying? Like failure like implies finality. Like you can only fail if you stop. But like some people should stop though not stop living. Yeah. Shouldn't kill yourself. Yeah. But some people if if nothing's working in a particular space,

it's probably not for you. You know what I mean? This is my thing though with that same idea. is like there will be people that will do stand up and they're not that good at it. But like they're in their own little lane. And it's funny and I agree. I'm like, bro, quit. What the fuck are you doing? You're like hogging up the space, whatever.

Right. But really the way I feel is like, bro, if you love it and you're like got your own little club and you're torn and you got your own little fan base. For sure. Even if you're not doing it, even if like you're just doing fucking kind of, like you're just doing spots in the city that are fine. Right.

And you're happy and it works. I'm like, yeah, go. Who the fuck am I to tell you not? I guess I look at like the misery of doing that. If they're miserable. Yeah. Yeah. And there are a lot of people that are like that.

Yeah. You know what I mean? The caveat of that is misery. Yeah. For sure. But if you're bliss and you're just like fucking kind of smoking, making some paintings and like you're able to get money through something, fucking do that forever. Right.

Or if it's like it's hard to not want to be part of like the cool guy club like, you know, Rogan and you know the whole fucking podcast cartel. But you know, there's a lot of money just. online, you could just build your own lane. That's what I'm saying. And it's like you don't, it's almost better. It's almost better. That's what I feel. Like yeah, it is cool to be a part of the club. Like, I also feel

like, obviously through Schultz, like he's the fucking coolest motherfucker. And I am a part of the club and that's awesome. And I'm like, yeah, that's great. But you see at the end of the day, like everybody, the ironic thing is when you break into that club, you're like, oh, it's not that cool. But yeah, so you were saying with the parenting thing. Yes. So when I have kids, I fully intend on having kids.

Hopefully they're daughters, right? Because fucking, I don't know. Because daughters, A, they're not inclined to antisocial behavior, right? It's just the truth, right? Men are statistically, scientifically, more aggressive, more inclined to be antisocial. Yeah, a lot more pro-social, that makes sense.

Whatever I have, boys, girls, he, she, they thems, whatever it is, they're not going to be raised with the scarcity mindset that I grew up with. Right? Because even though we were middle class, We didn't want for anything. We grew up in a house that we owned. All we heard was we could be out on the street. We have one bad month and we're homeless.

You know what I mean? There was just, there was a lack of gratitude for what we had. And it was a constant from the top down, from my father down to the kids. You have to work and you have to make money and it's so hard to make money. And it's a big, scary world. And those people that are wealthy, they're that way. They're ordained that way. We're not like that.

You know what I mean? And it's like that that's just a fear-based way of thinking. And truthfully, it's what made me want to sell drugs. Yeah. You know, like that was part of it. It was like survival. And, and, you know, it's misplaced survival, right? But nevertheless, that is a corrosive way to think.

Yeah. And so the inverse can also be as a corrosive. So how do you balance that? Have you thought about that? Well, what is the inverse? Like having so much, having anything that you want. But that's not a mindset, though. But it is, it is to an extent.

Like if you have everything and you're like, man, nothing really feels like anything because I'm not struggling at all. Like we know as humans biologically, like labor, work in some capacity to get an outcome feels good. Yes. Like fucking build a fire. I feel good. And that can be the same good feeling as building a fucking $100 million company. Yeah.

No, for sure. Like pain, like suffering and great and like. success are like gas, where they just fill the space that they're in. So even if it can seem small objectively, subjectively, it's a massive achievement. Right. And for that reason, you, like, I just saw some of these kids growing up. They just had everything they wanted and immediately just go into pills. Immediately go into like belonging for something, searching for something that they, again, that is that mindset. Yeah. Like, it's the opposite of scarcity. It's like an abundance mindset. Right. That I think can also be negative. But the abundance mindset,

that, yes, coupled with giving everything to a child, you're right. That is poisonous. You're going to set your kid up. It's almost better that they're poor. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like a kid from the projects, but raised with that abundant mindset, like the way immigrant kids are. Yeah.

You know, we're hanging out filming down in Miami with these Haitians and these Jamaicans. And like, even unique. The first thing he told us about coming over from the island when he was eight years old, first time he had ever worn a pair of shoes, it's like money grows on trees in America, grows on trees, and your only objective is to get it. Now, obviously, that was a problem because the way they were getting it was selling drugs, right? But, you know, you see their kids now, the second generation, they're like, dude, half the people in Haiti are malnourished, half. So when I'm here, there's no excuse.

I can start a business. I own a water company. You see it in Miami, especially because it's so, you know, it's so dominated by immigrants. It's like, yeah, this guy has an apparel company, right? And it's moving, right? It's all possible. Everything's possible. So that's really what it is.

Everything is possible. Yeah. You know what I mean? And we're not going to starve to death and we're not going to be homeless. So like that would be like ideal, right? Is a kid raised to have to go fend for himself but to know that like he can, he can achieve that if he puts his mind to it. Yeah, I think that's a good mentality.

And like instilling the idea of what do you like, what is the intersection of what you like to do that is beneficial to other people? That's marketable, right? That's what the market is, right? Are you doing something that has value that people can give you money for? Yeah.

And it has like some type of like good that comes out of it. Because obviously there's things that people like that you like that could be negative, la la drugs. But could you create something that is beneficial to people in some capacity that you also really enjoy. Yeah. And if you can find that,

and especially it's still that in a kid with some type of like moral guidance to be like this, not that. Yeah. Then I think you can set a kid up. Totally. And I think, you know, if you're rich or wealthy, right? If I'm rich, if I'm really making it

in show business or whatever it is, I can show my kids you can have, you can achieve this if this is what you want, but I'm going to sit first class and you're going to be in coach. you know or I'm not even going to take you on vacation I mean the wife are going to go you know to Mexico yeah but you're going to be stuck at home like I never got to go anywhere as a kid yeah like we would take road trips that was like the budget way to like getting out of here yeah we're

going to go to Canada to a lake yeah yeah that's the extent of it all so when I actually got to travel abroad I wasn't I was 21 years old almost 22 and it was like it was the best time of my life because I'd never had it before right so there's ways to there's ways to raise your kids with an abundant mindset and not make them pieces of shit. Yeah, I think that's completely true. You know what I mean? And I think it's a lot easier when you do have money because you just have options. You know? So, so that's how I plan to do it. But I'd like, I'd like for my kids to not think about money to not think about struggle. You know what I mean? I'd like them to see other people to, uh, who are struggling. So they appreciate

what they have. Yeah. But I'd like them to only be focused on like, creating. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. What do you like that other people can benefit? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the best mentality. I just, I've seen it so much with kids growing up that like would just get anything they wanted. Yeah. And they really lose themselves. Totally. In the same way that kids grow up with nothing lose themselves. Yeah. And yeah. And it just I think requires a lot of guidance. It's all back. It's it's all parenting. And and those kids parents are absent as the kids from the projects whose dad's locked up and their mom's fucking crap. Yeah. Like if your dad is some fucking, you know, Fortune 500 exact. Like he's all back. Like, he's all parents. Yeah. Like, he's. You know, he's all. You know, spending no time with you. You're getting raised by a nanny. Yeah. In the same way that, like, you're getting raised by some Jamaican woman that came over here that's nannying you. Right. And the same way that like a Jamaican immigrant comes over, it gets raised by some random auntie that's Jamaican also married. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? Everyone's getting raised by Jamaican woman. Yeah, Jamaican's seem to be the fucking the best housekeepers, you know?

But it's like when you're on either end of the spectrum, I think that's where it's dangerous. Yeah. But I think that's a good mentality. I think that's cool. Yeah. And as you just got to put your kids on mushrooms, I guess, right? Yeah. Just offer it. Just smoke weed. Yeah. You know, do molly. Six years old, be like, yo, give me that. I don't know. I think that's a cool, that's a cool arc that you found. Yeah.

And. But it's all comes from here. Yeah. I so believe that. If there's one thing I believe, it is the power of the mind. Because that's all the universe is. It is a shared intelligence, right? Like, that's probably what God is.

I can't say for sure what God is, but God is, you know, he's not a guy. If there is a god, it's probably a man, but the universal intelligence is what created everything that we have. Yeah. It started as nothing, right? Just energy and intelligence. And over billions of years, it formed, you know, a galaxy. And from there, it formed a planet. And from there, like these human beings sprung up.

But that's all just a divine intelligence manifesting creation. Yes. Creation being the big thing. Yes, it's creation. So, and then, you know, humans will reach a place like that singularity where we're all, you know, I don't want to be around to see that shit. Why? But the singularity.

When we mesh, because I'm old school. You know what I mean? Like, I like being human. Like, I will not join the robots. I will not get the, what do you call it? What's Elon working on? I won't get the neurolink. Yeah.

You know, like there's just some things that I won't give up, right? Racism being one of them, you know? But I don't want my kids. Stomshely individualistic. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Like that's probably not not the most evolved mindset. Like you want to move towards what it will be perfection. Excuse me, perfection. So, so yeah, I think like the operative word is like creation and that all comes from the divine intelligence and is now manifested through humans. Yes. What do you create in your mind? Yeah. And how does that manifest in real life? Like what are the things that you're actually putting out there? And that's completely how I feel. That's why I feel a stand up. I'm like, yeah, the money is cool but again like as long as it's reaching a bare minimum threshold yeah it's all right yeah and comedy's tough because it's like as you know there's there's you know the real world there's the material world and there's limitations there's hardships it's hard to do comedy if you can't

get on stage all the time right like it's fucking you and i still battle to get spots whereas like schultz can go pop in anywhere and do his creation you know what I mean but but he's been at it longer yeah you know yeah and that's But that's also why I like this show, just like podcasting in general, is like it is creating a conversation. Yeah. That exists forever. And again, even if like, you know, a thousand people see it, zero people see it, I still feel like the creation is enough. Yes.

And I obviously I get caught up in the numbers and I get caught up and like, oh, is it doing good enough? Is it bad? Like I was really in that, you know, like a year ago, a couple months ago. And now to an extent. But like I've worked hard to not be so obsessed with the constant. feedback. Like, I was obsessed with the analytics and still am. I really love the data. Right. But consciously trying to remove myself from the numerical evaluation of creation. Do you have people that reach out to you and say, hey, I love the show? Yeah. Then you have to keep going.

Yeah. And that is the thing that is worth it. But even if no one said that, like, I would appreciate this interaction. I just, it's hard for me to hate. I wouldn't be here. That's what I'm saying. Like, Like there's no, there's no situation where I can just call up unique and be like, hey man, can we talk? Right. You know what I'm saying? He's like, he's a busy guy. He's got stuff to do. Right.

But having some type of like offering to him. Yeah. And, you know, same with you and same with anyone else. Like it's a little less friction to try to connect with human beings when there's a platform. Yeah. And that's the beauty and the real reason why I want a platform at all is just to connect with people. 100%. No, I think that's great.

That is very true. And same with stand up. Like, the better I am at stand up and the better I am at marketing it, the more I can do it. so therefore I have to market it. Even though if it was just like, you can get up anywhere. Like I try to envision a world where it's like, okay,

you have enough money forever. And anything you want to do, you have the freedom to do it without inhibition. Like let's say you had unlimited money and you could do stage time anywhere in front of legit audiences that love to see stand-up.

Would you still do it? And for me, I'm like, yeah, I would just do stand-up all the time. Even if no one knew about it, as long as I could just keep on doing it, being in rooms of people. I would do because you know what you're doing is you're giving. Yeah.

Like when you go do stand up, you're giving of yourself, right? So the same reason Seinfeld keeps doing it, right? He's got unlimited money. Yeah. Because you're literally giving. When you're doing this, you're giving a piece of yourself. You're pulling back the curtain and you're giving these thousands of people to watch it, you know, a glimpse into you. And like, they relate to it.

Yeah. You know what I mean? So, and you're a giver. Yeah. You can raise that way. Yeah. So it's like you got no problem. You know?

Yeah. And I think that's partially why things have kind of worked out thus far. Yeah. But again, even if like the views go down or whatever, I'm trying to remove myself from that. Like, do you read a lot of the comments and stuff? I never read comments. Almost never. I get people who hit me up like wanting to do, like gangsters to fuck with my show or like, you know,

guys like unique or Alex who we film with in Miami. Yeah. And they're like, yo, this cat's saying you're fucking phony. You want me to go kill him? Some shit like that. And I'm like, no, back off. It's all love. You know what I mean?

Yeah. How was that Miami trip? That was fucking amazing. With Alex. Yeah. Can you give me a backstory on him? Yeah. So Alex Montanez is the first nephew to Rafa Salazar.

Rafa was featured in the cocaine cowboys documentary from back in the day, 2006. The best drug documentary that's ever been made. Florida boys made it. The guy, my name's escaping him. Producer, the Corbin brothers. Okay. And they made cocaine cowboys. The series, there's a new, they made a new one too.

It's on Netflix. But that, and that's really big in the, you know, online community, the underworld. And it's a, the cocaine cowboys is about the first generation of Colombian drug traffickers who came to Miami and opened up the market. They invented the cocaine business. And they were the ones getting their bricks. So Rafa was the, the number one guy in Miami. He was getting bricks straight from Pablo in Columbia. So he was obviously a billionaire himself.

right he made these people untold amounts of wealth well and his nephew was this guy Alex so he's one of the last surviving people from that lineage you know because everybody's dead yeah everybody's long been dead right so we thought that'd be amazing to like what what does life look like now what a core like yeah and I mean but it you know like those kids are really fucked up too he grew up as a rich kid but just from you know narco-traffickers right so they all had problems And you know not a good way to be raised either. Yeah, but it was really amazing to like you know, taking us around to Kendall, which is a Columbia neighborhood. Dude, he said there's so much money stashed in in those fucking houses still from back in the day that like a new family will move into the neighborhood and they'll be renovating and they'll just knock a wall out and they'll be like millions of dollars in drug money still there. Yeah. Do they get to keep it? Yeah. So what we've fucking looked into this, you have to technically take that down. reported is missing

and then like to the police precinct which you never do in Miami because that shit that money will go missing those cops to this day are fucking dirty right because it's Latin it's such a Latin culture

and the culture in Latin America is corruption right so they bring that to Miami but yeah and if nobody claims it within like 30 or 60 days you get to keep that money and just pay tax on it oh that's crazy yeah so

come up you buy a house and then make money yeah exactly yeah by another one with the fucking the money you just made that's crazy yeah so he took us to the first caleta which is like how they call a stash house right and then fucking show to sell the wall fucking uh it doesn't spin around actually you just it's a fake wall and you would just you could just move it was like a small little wheels and you just fucking extend it pull it pull it to the side yeah it'd be enough money for

or enough space for as much money or kilos as you could put in there that's crazy yeah so we saw that and we went around to like the Haitian neighborhood yeah uh we went to We went down to the docks, you know. Yeah. All that shit. Really fascinating. How do you find the drug culture is different depending on the place that you are? Whether you're in like New York, you know, like Pacific Northwest.

Yeah, yeah. Well, obviously like the nationalities, right? Yeah. So it's completely dominated by Colombians and Cubans down there. We interviewed this Cuban guy. This episode's dropping. It'll all be already be out by the time this comes out. He was like a Cuban guy that used to work with Raoul,

Castro, Fidel's brother. Whoa. And he would, yeah, and their army and they would help him protect the drug shipments after coming from Columbia, they would offload on the port in Cuba and then load the bricks on fastboats,

send him to the U.S. So it's bullshit that fucking Cubans are not involved in drug trafficking, like the island of Cuba. It absolutely is. You think a lot of like Fidel's money back in the day was like related to that? It's possible. It's definitely possible. But again, it's a dictatorship. It's so, it's so controlled and none of the drugs the only difference is that like all those islands run drugs

Jamaica the DR Haiti Cuba the only difference is none of the drugs that get get passed through Cuba actually end up domestically for consumption there's no drugs in Cuba pretty much interesting you know what I mean that's just like a waypoint it's just a way point just a way station yeah interesting yeah and then in terms of like how people are spending the money do you find it's different, like the way people flex. Like, I didn't realize until talking to unique that, like, the, like, rappers, which like, it seems dumb now that I'm thinking about it, but, like, rappers are just emulating drug dealers.

Like, even if you're a rapper that's never been involved with drugs, you look at, like, the drug dealers are like the OG flexors. Yes. Like, we are buying, like, the crazy souped up cars, like the chains, all that shit. All that came out of the drug culture. Yeah, like, the car to match the outfit. Yeah, exactly. That came out of, like, the drug culture that merged with rap.

And obviously, the rap game and, like, drug culture. They're just rapping about what they saw who they grew up with. And they're emulating the coolest guys in their neighborhood which happened to be drug dealers. So like, do you find that the way people flex is different depending on the culture? Or is it always just like cars, clothes, women? Surprise, surprise. I know this could be a controversial statement. The whites are better with money.

We all know this, you know? But that's because white people have money longer. Right. And they generally just are less cool. They're less flashy and have less style. So they just tend to just bury the shit and then just be really subtle with it. Interesting. I saw a lot of white weed traffickers,

especially guys I used to re-up from. Bro, they fucking got away with that money and they got out of the game. So there are people that fucking make it out and live that dream. You know what I mean? But yeah,

I think the first generations of the immigrants who come here and get involved in the drug game, especially back then, there was never any real thought about like the future. You know what I mean?

It was like, Let me take care of my mother and I'm prepared to die. The whole everything, the big through line to all of these gangsters is no fear of death. Because they come from a place that's like death. You know what I mean? So they come here and they're like, I'm in the struggle, constant survival mode. And if it's my time to go, it's my time to go. And it's kind of an honorable way to live if you think about it because they are living for

the day. Yeah. It's almost like what we're just talking about. Yeah. It's it's it can be a meditative way to live. You know, they are flashy and they fucking spend thousands of dollars at a strip club. It's because I get killed tomorrow. Yeah. So they're extremely in the present. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Right. Right. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. They're just it's a high stress level when you know people are trying to gun you down. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm always curious about like the like the human aspect of all of this. Yeah. Like regardless of like culture and race and all that shit, like once you get money and

you're in that kind of like high stakes game. Yeah. It's always like, okay, cars, women, chains, like how can I show off my wealth in the craziest way? Yeah. And it's just interesting that it always is the same things. Yeah. You know what I mean?

It's just always like it's a biological thing. Yeah. But freedom is what they have. They do it because it is freedom. Because money is freedom. Yeah. at least in the material world, but it's something that I realized and I always craved. Was that the way that like they're in a society that's so controlled, you know, you're

controlled everywhere you go. They are outlaws, you know what I mean? And the rules don't really apply to them. Yeah. You know what I mean? In spite of the fact that what you did compared to a lot of these guys, like in terms of jail time and drop in the bucket. Yeah.

So it's like, do you feel more connected to them in ways? Like now like when I meet a comic, like there's an instant rapport and there's an instant like understanding of like, okay, there's jokes that I can say around you that I wouldn't say around other people. Yeah. And there's things that I can do in ways I can behave. Like there's a camaraderie that comes with it. Yeah, for sure.

And I'm curious like, do you find yourself connecting with them in deeper ways because of the same kind of drive? Or is it actually almost more alienating because you're like, I was doing my shit, but I'm not like you guys. Yeah, yeah. No, I, that's interesting. I think, I don't know. I don't know.

I feel like I don't obviously now because I'm so removed from the game. Yeah. I am taking a more journalistic approach to it. You know? Like I understand these guys a lot. I'm like, God damn, I was locked up with all of you.

And, you know, I wish you could just change, you know? But a lot of them are changing, right? They have YouTube channels. A lot of them are back in the game.

Yeah. So yeah, no, I, the entrepreneurial spirit is what I share with them the most yeah you know I'm like driven I'm like fuck yeah you know what I mean especially being especially being in Miami I'm like yeah you're right like let me take some of that immigrant mindset which I think the immigrant mindset is really a it's it's what middle class people like

myself didn't have growing up was that like no excuses you can do it you can be your own person you can have your own business you can make your own money yeah you don't have to be a cog in someone else's machine or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, which is everything you saw. Everyone was working at like a factory, a plant, a fucking whatever job. I'm in Portland. We did not work in factories. I thought there's a lot of factories in Portland. No, no, no, it's cubicles, right? It's like this guy's dad's a assistant principal. My dad works for a lawyer for a, you know, corporation. Yeah. Like it was very like solidly middle class. But they were all at cogs in a greater way. For sure. For sure. Yeah. Whereas all these guys were just born into

entrepreneurship. Exactly. Because there's no other choice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm curious, like, do you ever want to, like, expect, like, now most of the guys you talk to are not, I think your water's that way. Oh, shit. No, you got a little drop in that one, too. Any of these guys you meet, do you wish, like, the ones that are still in it? Like, most of the guys you have it on the channel are kind of outer removed. But the ones that are still in it, is there any party that wants to be like, bro, there's another way? Like, any of these guys that hit you up, like, bro, like, teach me whatever.

Now, now I'm like, damn, it's the worst time to get. into the drug game. Yeah. I just, I don't even respond when people are like, hey, I got some advice, I'll pay you, can I give you five grand for a sit down? I'm like, I think that's like a federal crime. I can't even like consult you.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I just, I feel like it's such, I wanna be like, dude, there's so many ways to make money. And the odds of you doing this right and getting out and making huge money are so slim. And especially if you're fucking hitting me up

and asking me on Instagram, you know what I mean? And like, it's just... Yeah, you're making mistakes already. Yeah, you're making mistakes. Exactly. Exactly. And you're so talented and you have this drive in the spirit. Like, you could go do anything.

Yeah. You don't necessarily have to do this. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just like, I think I really was of the last generation of regular dudes that could blow up, as we used to say, and become rich off of middle manning drugs. Yeah. You know what I mean?

I think now it's like you're either part of the cartel and there's nothing I can say to you. right or you're you know doing it on a very low level and you got to sell all different kinds of goofy shit and it's just like eh that's for that's for kids if you're a teenager i guess as long as you're like knowing that like okay after college we got to make a change yeah i'm gonna use this to pay for college yes exactly like my buddy reggie did like my best friend and and drug dealing partner at least back then but dude he got out of the game like without a scratch like he like he paid for his tuition you know he paid his rent. Yeah. It was no burden on his parents, right?

And he was like, dude, we just, like, we're living the dream. And I'm like, no, we got to make millions, right? So it's like if, but if kids just could see that like this should just be like a training kit for like the legitimate world, like that's the best way to fucking, you know, sell drugs. That's the best way to be part of the game. If you want to be part of the game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But it's like being an alcoholic. Everybody's an alcoholic in college. You party, take beer bongs out of your ass. You know what I mean? But after college, if you're still doing that, like, we might have, we might have a drinking problem. That's interesting. Yeah, that's a good way to phrase it.

Do you have any episodes coming up that you're excited about? Yeah. Well, the one dropping tomorrow is with that guy Apache, that Cuban drug trafficker. Fucking incredible. Looked like Stephen Bauer, Manolo from Scarface, too. Like, such a Cuban-American fucking Cubano, you know, we're fucking selling. He's like, the van would pull up and it'd be a. thousand keys and the Colombians would say take as many as you want like yeah oh that's that

that shit is fucking crazy we're going to Detroit to film with this guy who used to be enforcer for the mafia in Detroit Detroit Detroit has a huge mob history nobody knows about Jimmy Hoffa was whacked in Detroit that's right so yeah so we got that coming up interviewing a fucking corrections officer we're talking to this guy who used to work with the cartels out of Arizona and he would get like hundreds of pounds delivered to him a day just fresh off the border, did 10 years in a Mexican prison, in a Mexican prison. Yeah, it's the next level. Next level.

You saw like those pictures of like the Salvadorian prison where like they're all like lined up basically like just like fucking chain together. Well that's like torture. They're doing that. That's them cracking down on MS-13. In Mexican prison there's no rules. You're just getting stabbed. If you can't pay your way into a nicer part of the prison, you're going to be getting

in some knife fights. No if-and or buts. So yeah, we got a lot of cool stories though. So check out the channel, the connect with Johnny Mitchell. Yeah. It's dope. I really love all the stuff I've seen. Thanks, man.

You do a great job. You do a great job. You have a great knowledge of everything and you're able to ask the right questions in order to get really interesting tidbits and stories. Thank you. That's where I came up with the idea. I'm like, what if somebody actually talked about the details of drug trafficking that was in it? Yeah.

You know? So thanks, man. Yeah. And check out my comedy too. I do stand-up comedy. Yes. Believe it or not. Yeah.

Not only in prisons. Yeah. Around the world. Yeah, almost exclusively in the free world. Nice, dude. Keep it that way. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Let's tell it. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure, Marky. I appreciate you, brother. Let's go do stand-up. All right.