Camp Gagnon - Most Notorious Mobsters in History

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

Anthony Devito is a comedian, actor and podcaster with ties to the Italian Mob. He's in the tent today to help me go over the craziest stories about the most infamous mobsters in American History and tell us about his personal family story involving the Mafia. WELCOME TO CAMP! Shout to Huel for sponsoring the podcast: Huel: https://huel.com/camp 0:00 Intro 2:30 Meet Anthony Devito 5:00 John Wilkes Booth 9:00 Anthony’s Fathers Mob Ties 21:00 Uncovering His Fathers Life/Death 29:50 John Gotti 43:00 Damnit Miles + Luigi Mangione 49:00 Anxiety Of Being Affiliated 51:20 The Sopranos 52:45 Anthony’s Childhood Story 57:55 Pablo Escobar 1:10:52 La Catedral 1:15:33 Luigi’s X Account + Homeschooling 1:20:47 Al Capone + Nicknames 1:29:11 Mob Similarities Today 1:35:13 Luigi Update 1:37:30 Valentine's Day Massacre 1:42:17 Frank Costello + Frank Sinatra Scars 1:50:29 Lucky Luciano + Meyer Lansky 2:00:49 Ranking The Gangsters 2:02:51 Check Out Anthony Devito

Good morning. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to camp. This is the place in the tent where I explain the most fascinating and interesting topics from around the planet to my dumbest friends. And oh boy, we got a real ringer

in here today. Let's go. We have a real fucking idiot here. Yeah, no, I mean, look, he's Italian. He took eight years to graduate college, all right? But he's brilliantly funny, and he's very charming, very kind. It's Anthony DeVito, ladies and gentlemen. Come on.

Yeah, drop some campfires in the comments. Thank you, guys. Yeah, we got Chrisos clapping on the side. Thank you, Christos. As always, it's F Miles. All right, I would say the full word, but I think we're too early in the episode and we're going to get pulled off.

But yeah, just drop it F. Miles in the chat. Miles is my dear friend from college, who I love very much. Gotcha. That came on and did a couple episodes and the audience hated him. So now, look, I'm just a prisoner of the audience, okay? If they hate my best friend, so be it.

So do I. But also, it's like, what better for Miles? Do you know what I mean? To have a place to be a villain. To have a place to be your worst self. Yeah, yeah. And to do it with your best friend is great. Yeah, I can think of one thing better, which is just being loved by everyone.

Sure, of course. Yeah, yeah, sort of like unadulterated sort of admiration, I think would be nice. But if it goes the other way, it's not a bad place to live. The middle ground sucks. Yeah, yeah. The middle ground of just like, okay, that was kind of just whoever he was. Right. But to stoke so much anger.

Yeah, yeah. Or obviously you want love. That's the goal. But if you're not really a bad person, to kind of put on the Joker suit, that's fun. It is nice. And nobody gets hurt. It is nice. You know what I mean?

This is nice. I got some merch, by the way. Brand new. Hot off the press. Okay, I'll show you the back before we go to a break. But I'm not going to turn around right now because I actually injured my back deadlifting just a moment ago. Also, as always, we have our shelf here. If anyone would like to send anything in, we got a PO box that's going to be dropping very soon. Please send in your Chotchkes. All right? You got a sick little parrot. I have no idea where this is from made in 1999 but yeah drop something in and we'll put it on the set something that you contribute

don't make it racist or historically insensitive okay because that would be that would be hurtful because I would have to put it up and I wouldn't want to I can't imagine anything sadder than sending your trinket

and having it return back in the mail exactly exactly today we have an amazing topic we have an excellent one and there's no one better to discuss it with me we're talking about the most interesting and notorious mobsters history.

Okay? I mean, we're talking about everyone from Al Capone to Whitey Boulger to, I mean, basically everyone in between. I mean, we got a bunch of really interesting guys.

We're going to be dropping into Lucky Luciano, Griseld de Blanco. Warren Buffett? Warren Buffett. Yeah, exactly. You heard me. You heard me, America.

Didn't know we had a socialist on the pod. John Gotti, the ledge. For sure. Yeah, I mean, we're going to be going through everybody. And I specifically wanted

to speak with you, Mr. DeVito. Sure. Because you have a very interesting and sorted history with organized crime. Sure, sure. Is this true? I always do this like...

It's like a Barbara Walters' turning point moment. Wow, we've been bullshunded for like 20 minutes before the show. Show, tell me. Anthony. Did you assassinate that CEO? I cannot speak on that. I just know that the country is rooting

for me, and I think... I'm hearing your applause, and it's helping me keep going. It is nice actually on that point to see gun violence bring people together. Sure. You know what I mean? There's something beautiful. Typically when there's an act of sort of senseless violence with a weapon, people sort of, you know, get divided and people say, you know what, this is bad. And let me just say, on the record, you know, it's very sad to see someone pass away. It's a guy with a family. Of course. With that being said, a lot of people are happy. Yeah, it's a wild, it's a very wild moment in the country. Yeah. And really, you know, obviously it gives you a sense of like, hey man, there is a

unifying. Like this is weirdly brought the nation together. Yeah. Everyone can be like, yeah, we do not like insurance CEOs to this point. It is, it is fascinating. Yeah, did you see the look like contest? No, that's hilarious. They did a look like contest in Washington Square Park.

To me, Shalamee goes out to that one too. Yeah. Well, he looked like Timothy Shalbeth. I was like, did Shalbay, where was he? Can we get a receipt? He's like, are we doing it again? They're like, not now, Shalbay. Not now. What's his alibi? Seems a little suspect. All right. Let's just, we'll quickly do the scenario. It's Timothy Shalomek. What do you think happens?

I mean, the world is never the same. That is like the Franz Ferdinand moment. You know what I mean? That sets the course of history into just a different direction. Yeah, you think it's John Wilkes Booth, but at a higher level. Oh, it really would be, actually, if you really think about it. John Lewis Booth, a very prominent actor that killed Abraham Lincoln. Yeah. Yeah. That is crazy. It's actually remarkable how famous he was, John Wilkes Booth. I did not, and I watched the, what's it called, it wasn't called Abraham. Whatever it is on Apple Plus. Yeah, that's a, it was like a Lincoln show. Yeah, that's a Jewish historical film, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, different.

You watch Abraham, you're like, this is old. Yeah, and somehow John Wolk's booth is in this one, too. It was everywhere. But, yeah, and I did not realize how popular of an actor that he was. Oh, yeah, yeah. I thought, yeah. He was pop. It's wild, man.

And his brother was also very successful. I believe Edwin Booth was his name. And he actually has a theater in a building still named after him in Manhattan. Yeah, the Booth theater. It's crazy, man. It would be like if the Wayne's brothers shot Biden. Whatever.

That would be awesome. Dude, white chicks. But they killed Biden. All of a sudden, people are rewatching white chicks as like a subversive political movie. They're like, dude, the signs were there all the time. That's crazy. Yeah, it really is wild.

the Wayne's brothers just, but here's this interesting actually, because one of them, Edwin was like a hardcore unionist. He was like, he disavowed his brother. Oh, he was like, he's gone off the deep end. And so he like cut ties and was like, I don't even know this man anymore. Right. And, uh, and old John Wilkes, he just went crazy. I bet too, Edwin, they were really like, hey man, now we want to make a movie about John Wilkes and like, who better to play him but you. I would imagine that's like a part of it afterwards. He did end up going on to continue. acting after his brother assassinated Lincoln. Crazy.

And there was an assassination attempt on him while he was on stage like two years later. This is just like the early history of America. Everyone just shooting each other. Totally, man. It's just bullets flying. Yeah, it's crazy. And now it's so different. Exactly.

Now it's safe. As long as you're not a billionaire. Or a child. Or a child attending school. Yeah, which I'm neither, so I don't care. Yeah, we're good. This is also one of the big reasons why I don't want to be a billionaire. Because, you know, which I've considered doing it before.

Yeah, okay, good. But it's like, it's just not worth it. Sure. You know what I mean? Like having this target on your back, literally. It's like, I just don't want to deal with the headache. Yeah, I would as far as it say, it's not even worth it having like $10,000 in your checking it. And that's why I don't do it.

See, this is why I'm focused with you. You know what I mean? You and I, we see you be able to take out a city bike and ride it to be like, oh, my God, we've got to get this guy. Yeah, that's a tough look. Ask you for a Venmo before you take the city bike. You're like, yeah, can you spot me? I'm just trying to get this story. Okay, I'm in a bad spot.

Trying to take an open air over, and if you could help me, please. Yeah. But yeah, it is a wild thing, John Wux Booth. Another final history fact, okay, because that's not what this show is about. We're talking about the mob, not American, not, you know, presidential history. John Wilkes Booth's dad was named Brutus. Okay. Named after the guy that killed Julius Caesar.

Oh, sure. So he's named after the guy that kills the leader in some sort of like coup d'etab, like revolution-type thing. and his son ends up actually killing the leader of the country. Yeah, Junius Brutus. Wild. Junius Brutus is the actual name of Brutus, A2 Brutus from... Really? Yeah, from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar.

Man. The gentleman in the Senate that killed old Caesar. Crazy. That is crazy. Just a weird little quirk of history. Wow. Yeah, I guess he was just destined for this the whole time. Yeah, and it's a certain way you've got to be like, look, man, I don't even know if it's your fault.

You know what I mean? Like if destiny says, hey, you got to go, you know. I think now you're looking at them differently. I think if Booth does what he does now, people would take these things into consideration. Yeah. Where they go, there would be a whole conversation about free will. Yeah. It wouldn't be about, you know, everything else.

See, as we were saying, you can, you can will what you want, but you can't will what you will or whatever, Schopenhauer said. I still think I got that quote messed up. Anyway. Here's the thing, I believe it. And I'll never fact-chep it. And here's the other thing. I'm going to run with that. When I get out of here, I'm going to be like, did you know what Oppenheimer said?

Not only did he do crazy bomb stuff He also said a lot of smart shit too But yeah Let's talk about the mob And you specifically I would love to know Sort of your relationship

Okay, like in what way Are you affiliated? I am not affiliated I know you would take one look at me And go, this guy No, you could be Yeah, I would be so undercover I would be so

So such a sly Like, that is ridiculous. Yeah, yeah. But no, I, my father was a made guy in a family. He died when I was seven months old. And I slowly, I didn't know about this. I learned first at 18. I'll say I was playing basketball.

Just pick up game out on the court. There was a guy there. And, you know, pick up basketball, like everyone kind of knows each other. So like, you know, so any new person, you're like, oh, who are they? So there's a guy there looked like, I don't know, solid rebounder, good jumper, similar eyebrows. And I was like, weird. And then afterwards he was like, oh, hey, I'm your cousin from your father's side. What?

And then, yes. And I really didn't know much about my dad. My mom was really good about like sort of just covering up details. She was like, she kind of ran like a smear campaign against dads in general so I would never kind of get curious or long for one. So like we would go to, this is a real thing. we would go to Toys R Us and she would just point out bad dad. And she would be like, aren't you glad you don't have one of those?

And I'm like, yeah, that sounds pretty good. So I never really asked about it. What does it mean to point out of bad dad? So like, so I mean, this is North Jersey too, so it's a little bit easier. Bad dads are just running amok. And then B.A.S. That's fair. You want to see a bad dad in New Jersey.

Go to Toys R Us on Saturday. So we would go, we would go under the guys of getting me G. G.I. Joe's or whatever. And then the minute she saw like a dad being mean to one of their kids, she would be like, hey, look at that. And she'd be like, oh, it's pretty good. You don't have one of those. And I'd be like, oh, this is pretty good. So, like, really, really smart, tactical move, right?

So I never really ask about them. And I can always sense there's, like, a sadness to her when sort of, like, she, you know, the subject gets mentioned. And, like, there's just a weirdness surrounding it. And my mom is a good mom. I don't ever want to see her sad. So then I come home after the basketball game. I'm like, hey, I met my cousin from my dad's side.

And then she goes, I need you to sit down for this. I need to tell you about your dad. And then proceeds to tell me. He was, you know, a maid guy in a family. And I don't really know, like, anything about it. Like, as a kid, I wasn't allowed to watch The Godfather because my mom, there's another thing she did. My mom said that movie maintains harmful stereotypes about Italian kids.

No. Yes, man. So I, Anthony DeVito from Northern New Jersey is like, those stereotypes, like, they're, you know, you can't watch this movie. And, like, you know, so, um, so I am completely sheltered from it. And then, uh, she, she tells me, but she doesn't tell me everything. She kind of just gives me like, you know, she's, and this all true, you know what I mean? He was a, you know, he's a conflicted person.

He was this good guy. He did some bad things. Doesn't give me the details about it. And then I, my ex-girlfriend when I was 30, we got, and this is, this is on my end. This is a bad move by me. I'm a whole, very aware. So she gives me an ultimatum, because we've been dating for like three years. And she was like, hey, like, we either, like, move in or we got to break up.

So, and I never, my mom made me. keep it a secret about my father, just for safety purposes, just for like, she doesn't want people looking at me differently, all kinds of reasons, right? And this is my mom, she's a good mom, I'll abide by her wishes. But with her, I was like, I told her about my dad as like a sort of a bargaining chip of commitment, which is, admittedly so, a horrible move. It's very mob-esque. I mean, I'd be like, hey, I'm going to give you some information, and you just stick around, okay? It's like, where'd you learn this from? You couldn't even watch the Godfather. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So, so, um, yeah, maybe.

Maybe I would be right at this thing. Yeah, you'd be amazing. So, man, I just have these instinct. So then she, I was like, just, you know, don't look him up. Like, it, you know, it means a lot to me. It means a lot to my mom. And then I go to bed, she looks at him up. So then before she leaves for work, she was like, you should look for yourself.

And then when I do, that's when I sort of find out, like, the first thing I saw was, like, a New York Times headline. And was, like, pretty much the headline was, like, you know, noted criminal found in the trunk of a car and I was like that's my dad what and then it was like sort of the legacy of some of his crimes and it was like that that was the moment where it became like very real like I think up to know that moment I knew I wasn't necessarily proud of it but I thought it was like here's like an interesting thing about me that I can't tell anyone like I'm sure like Batman feels this way to some degree you know what I mean like other side of the coin but you know you kind of get it but then that was the moment for me when I was like oh these were the stakes of it and that's what

And I kind of had like, there was like shame attached to it. Oh, wow. So from like the ages of like playing basketball in the park, which is like what? 18. 18. 18. 18. 18.

Okay. So from zero to 18, you knew virtually nothing? Virtually nothing. He existed as just like whatever my imagination could conjure. So like that is the interesting, like I don't know if you grew up with both parents. Yeah. Yeah. So when you don't have one, and especially when you know nothing about one and they're gone, you get

to invent whoever they were. So you kind of create this superhero in your head. So that's what I had done with him. He kind of just became this, like, sort of like weird guiding voice in my head that, like, I never met, but I could create whoever he was. Wow. Do siblings?

No, I'm an only child. Right. So the cover-up of the truth was probably a little easier. A little easier. Just have one kid to lie to. Wow. And the rest of my mom's side of the family knew, and they were also like, we don't want him to know.

We want to, you know, protect Anthony from whatever reality. We just don't want to burden him with, like, sort of a kind of, complicated reality, which is a lot to take for a child. Like at 30 even, it was like I couldn't I really couldn't fully reconcile it until I started doing the show, to be honest with you. But like as a child, you know, because as a child, everything's so binary. You know, it's like, you know, how can I, I, I love Hulk Hogan. How can I justify also liking my dad? You know what I mean? Right. It kind of, the world's a little different now with anti-heroes and stuff like that. But like back then, for sure, I wouldn't have been able to sort of like decipher the nuances of it.

Yeah, and when you say show, for anyone listening, you were doing a show specifically on this topic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Doing it again Thursday, 930 at Second City. There are no tickets sold. Oh, hell. Yeah, so if we get 10 people, I can do this thing. So if you're out there, if we can get, I'm calling them the miracle 10. Yeah, and if we can get them, it'll be great.

But anyway, yes. So that. So 0 to 18, whenever you asked your mom, hey, what was my, what was dad like? Like, would she show you pictures? Or was it sort of just like, like, like, completely disconnected. It was disconnected, but I could tell there was like a, she's a pretty lighthearted person, and there was a seriousness that overtook her when he was brought up.

So it was just like a topic that I was like, I don't want to pry too much about this. Because I also, my mom was very good about keeping up appearances. And like, I never really saw her sad. So she, it was so obvious when she was. And this was kind of the only time when she was. So it was like, I was just like, just give her this. You know what I mean? She gives you a lot, just give her this, and like that's that.

And you were making that calculation as like a 12-year-old. Yeah. Well, I was an only child and it was all adult. So in my house, it was me, my mom, my grandmother, my great-grandmother, and my aunt. So it was like I was a little bit emotionally precocious. Whereas, like, I was surrounded by adults, so I could kind of pick up on like cues from them a little bit. Right. But, no, pictures, she never really showed me pictures.

She would just be like, we don't have any or whatever. And I just took it at face value. So when a friend asked you when you're like, 12, 13, like, oh, yeah, like, where's your dad? You'd just be like, oh, he passed away and leave it at that. She told me he died a car accident, drunk driver. So if anything, I was, like, very, like, hyper, like, vigilant about drunk drivers. And then the reality is, like, well, it isn't even so much that she lied when she said car accident.

It was just like, well, that's the wrong into the car. This is a car on purpose. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. It's also interesting to think, like, the psychological effect of how you start. to see the world based off of the story you were told. You know what I mean? Like you were concerned about Italian stereotypes and drunk driving.

Yeah. As a boy, despite the fact that, like, those things are not really a part of your story, despite, you know, they were sort of fabricated. Totally, man. Oh, that's fascinating. Yeah, and I don't even know this is, you know, until we're talking right now, it's like, yeah, I didn't drink until I was, like, 21. And, like, that's probably why.

Right. Because there was nothing else really holding me back. Crazy to have an epiphany, you know, surrounded by a cool, Applebee's. To be fair, I said that the Christos before and it got a laugh, so I am recycling that. No, there's flare in here. Yeah, there is a fact. It's pretty awesome.

We need margaritas, dude. That's what we need. We need bottomless margs right now. You need a server. Exactly. But, um... Wow. But yeah, and in terms of like, so that's what I would tell people, there were no pictures.

And then, yeah, I never really pride because of that. So then your mom tells you at 18, and then from 18 to 30, you still sort of don't acknowledge it. I don't acknowledge it. It's like, but if you got me drunk enough, I would say it. Like, I used to, like, in my early 20s, I lived in Hawaii. And I lived, I mean, this is kind of a side point, but like, I lived in the woods. I think that's why the idea of doing the show, I was like, yeah, camp, great.

But I lived in the woods with these four dudes, or three dudes. I was the fourth. And, like, when you are homeless with people, it's very intimate. It's bond. Do you have with them? So we would just get hammered at this bar every night. And I remember one night, I think they were the first people I told outside of maybe my college girlfriend.

I don't even remember if I told her, to be honest. But like, I remember I had like, I don't know, like six or seven beers and was like, hey, want to know a crazy thing? And then like, but that's the only attachment I had to it. Does it create like an emotional problem for you? Because this is something that you are like sort of emotionally ambiguous trying to process feeling like, oh, I've been lied to, but also I. like my dad as the person I've created, but also, you know, maybe he did some bad things.

Like, you're having this sort of ambivalence, but at the same time telling people, and I'm sure everyone goes, dude, that's awesome. Yes. So there's probably a mismatch in your brain. Yeah. What is that like? Because, like, I didn't know the gruesome details. I just knew that he had died and my mom was sad about it.

So there were, I knew there were stakes there. I don't know the exacts of the stakes. It was so wasn't, but there was, I think there was like a small part of me that every time someone was like, that's so cool. There was a part of me that felt a little bit of shame because of that because I knew there was like probably some awful reality to go with that. But since people reacted so positive and were so curious about it, I was like, yeah, I guess it is kind of cool. Yeah. And only, yeah, at 30 when I found out like more of the details and like, you know, like more of the uncomfortable details in terms of like he killed people, you know what I mean? Like those kinds of things. It was

hard to reconcile with that. Also, too, at 30, like, you're a person now. You know what I mean? And I'm very much this, like, soft, like, take a picture of a tree guy. You know what I mean? Like, I'm, you know, like, I've told people extensively about, like, my regard for poetry. Yeah, you know? So it's like, I'm this guy who now has to deal with, like, I wouldn't hurt a fly. And now I have to deal with a father who killed people. And, you know, I'm also someone who's, like, very enthusiastic about being alive. So it's like the fact that like I don't know the circumstances, but that he took that gift away from people was, you know, was not easy for me to sort of like wrap my head around. Right. That's when I like, that's when I went inward with it and like, you know, there was a lot of

shame attached to it. So then how do you start uncovering the details? Like, what is that journey? Yeah. Some are my mom's, I mean, my mom is, she's up in age. So like, and she's blocked out a lot of it because it's like real trauma. When you really get to know her story, you're like, Jesus Christ. I couldn't imagine. It's. So, like, she'll, but she'll spill out, like, details, like, here and there, and you're just, like, offhandedly. You know what I mean? Like, you know, we're driving once, and she was like, you kind of, just for the scope of it. Like, she were driving, I think where there was, like, we were just driving.

There was a new strip mall or whatever. And she was like, she was like, oh, you know, John Gotti was at your christening. And I was like, what? What? And then she was like, oh, is that a new old Navy? Like, she just sort of, like, she just sort of implants things, like, like, whoa. And then there was another time we were just, I got something at it. She's an apartment in Jersey, got something out of the kitchen cabinet.

And she was like, oh, you know what's funny? She was like, your dad actually kept a secret cabinet in the kitchen where he would hide, you know, guns and money and stuff like that. And I was like, okay. And then she was like, your dad was kind of funny like you. He would always joke how the carpenter wasn't around anymore. And I was like, yeah, that's not really a joke if, like, it could be a reality. I mean, that is kind of terrifying. At what point is she telling you this?

Is it post-30? Like when you get you're an adult. This is the past couple of years when I start doing the show and she starts like, she's been a lot for her. She's processing now more of what she never has. So it's like these developments have been in the last couple years. I mean, whoa. Yeah.

Up until then, it was just whatever I had in this newspaper headline. And that was, print is the most difficult thing because there's no, there's no ambiguity. There's no moments to finesse's character. It's just like, these are the facts. So there's no way to like sort of construct a narrative with like, it's just. this. So did you speak with people that knew him that weren't related to you? Like at any point, did you speak with other folks that were organized in the family, quote unquote? No, just because,

I mean, I've had a cousin reach out to me. And she's not just as like, hey, I see you're doing the show. Like, very encouraging. Just sort of like, you know, I remember when this had to be told to me about your father. So it's like, whatever this journey is for you, like, you know, that's applauded. And do you know what his role was within the family? I mean, I know, I don't know too much of like the hierarchical stuff, but like I know he was a soldier. And then I think when he went to, he went to prison for five years. And when he got out, nine months later, I was born. And I think after he got out of prison is when he was made.

Wow. Yeah. And then what was his, ultimately his ending? Like what, what came of him and how did he end up in a car? There was, I believe it was over, it was over money. It was over some kind of owed money and I mean that that seems to be and you know I'm no expert on this subject like this is a personal story for me. Yeah. And there's going to be other people who do it's funny when talking about this because like because of how many like X, you know, organized crime do individuals do podcasts and stuff like that.

Like they know way more than I do. Right. So it's like, but it does seem to be like, you know, obviously bumping off the wrong guy and or just like where did the money. money go. And especially when you're doing a job that's so anxiety-inducing like that, it's so high stakes, to blow off steam, that's why a lot of them are gamblers, just because it's like, that's the only thing that sort of like fulfills the rush and like, that's how they come down. Right. So, yeah, I think there was, you know, some gambling involved. Oh, interesting. I've never actually looked at that way. That gambling is a way to come down.

Yeah. And this is all secondhand. This is me watching a bunch of like, interviews of them and stuff like that just to like sort of generate like how to be in their heads for the sake of the show and making it as honest and like sort of as possible and they've talked about that I've heard multiple of them talk about like how gambling is used as like a release mechanism interesting yeah I wonder if there's a sense you can like control it like it's within sort of like obviously there's a random chance but like you can sort of control like the you know how much you're going to buy in like the stakes of things like if you can win there's like a big rush and if you lose there's a chance you get it back right yeah it's really interesting i mean

i've seen similar things of like people that have really high stakes like intense careers yeah really enjoy gambling and in my mind as someone that never really like enjoyed going to a casino like to play or whatever thinking about that like oh why would you because to me that's anxiety inducing like playing a game and losing like playing blackjack and being like oh damn like i never forgot the rush from it. So thinking about someone like, oh, I have a super high-stakes career and I'm going to let off steam by continuing to do something really stressful. Yeah, it's almost like how like Wall Street bankers or whatever, they're like, oh, I can only come from getting candle wax stripped on my balls or whatever. That I get. Yeah. I understand.

I'm like, all right. You're like, no, that's any tax bracket. I'm listening. Yeah, I'm listening. But yeah, I think when you're like, when you're playing on 10, the release goes along with the scale that you're living life at in a weird way. Whoa. Yeah, it's, I was taken aback by that, too, of like, wow, that's how you guys come down. That'd be the most stressful thing that I do. Whoa. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that's wild. That's your pops. Yeah. It went through all this. Yeah, exactly. And is there still more that you're uncovering now? Like, as we sit here today, are you still, like, finding newspaper clippings?

Well, I'm not finding anymore newspaper clippings, but I am. There is a book that's been written that mentions my family. So I started reading that book last summer And that that has been Eye-opening That like did go into more details And then like that was when I heard his Read his voice rather

Because like my whole life I've been imagining what he sounded like But then like you know I the first time I read his voice Was like him saying that's a lot of blood I know And like Remove you go okay it's just entertainment but when you're like, that's my father saying that, it's, it's tough, man. That's unsettling.

Yeah. And also the amount of blood for you to say that versus him saying that is such a different amount. That's a really good point. That's a really, really good point. You were like pulled off a cuticle and you're like, that's a lot of blood. Yeah. That's when I would say. This is a blood man.

He's in the blood game, for sure, yeah. That's wild. I know. Yeah, man. Jeez. So then, and then it's also balancing that with, like, who he is as a human and who he was to my mom and like she'll even tell me these like you know sort of like such a reverence for him in the way that like you know because my my you know my mom is one of four sisters and my aunt being the

youngest my dad used to you know she couldn't sleep at night because of anxiety he would just drive over and read her bedtime stories until she passed out so he was this like loving gentle person that then had this other half to him yeah and like you know and you want to give someone their due diligence on both fronts especially as like someone who's telling not your story but their story and be like here's the whole of a person yeah um and it's you know this is a man who love my mom who gave me life right so you're like i have to find the good in him yeah who your mom also loved ostensibly right like and that is partially you yeah exactly that is a brain fuck that's wild yeah so i can't just write him off as like you know this bad guy and then i also just can't be like

he's this great guy you know so it's like unfortunately we have to use nuance which is annoying I prefer to live in a binary Where things are good or they're bad 50 years ago This show would have been so easy to do He's obviously great Moving on It's the American dream

What are you people not seeing They had nothing They built their way Exactly I know that's the yeah God Oh wow Yeah

Well we have some other monsters to discuss Please And as we go I would implore you to jump in And feel free to I'm getting a phone call Everyone's blowing me up right now Sorry, people.

No, good. Okay, so... It's the FBI. Yeah, exactly. They got us. They freaking got us. All right, so we're going to go through just some other mob family members. And let me just put some things out here, okay?

We might be making some jokes. These are all allegedlys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think. I mean, right? Yeah, yeah, for sure. I'm still... This is how much of a scarity cat I am.

Of course. Even talking about, like, Al Capone. This is a guy that was, like, prominent in, like, the 20s. Exactly. Man, I'm so... I'm so soft and a weakling. I'm like, his ghost is going to be, his ghosts will kill me. For sure.

I'm not even bringing it up. So, it is all allegedly. Of course, of course. And anyone that has family like you that might be connected to any of these folks that we talk about, all love and respect. Yeah, we'll do black and white photos only, just to be safe. Exactly. Oh, interesting. All right.

So you want to talk about John Gotti? Sure, man. I mean, what an interesting place to start. This was a gentleman who was allegedly. I mean, I know him as Uncle John, but sure. Go ahead. Allegedly at your christening. Born in 1940 in the South Bronx,

Gaudy's path to organized crime began in the streets. By 16, he was leading a gang called the Fulton Rockaway Boys. I love. The old New York, you know how tough you really have to be to be in a song and dance gang? It's awesome. And it's one thing to be in the clips, bloods, pirouism, whatever, but it's being the Fulton Rockaway Boys,

still stoke fear, wow, are you tough? I also love that they hyphenated it, Like that there was an internal disagreement? Like a like a divorced couple. You know what I mean? They're like, we're the Fulton boys. They're like, well, Hank, well, some of us, you know, Tony and Gianni, they're from Rockaway. Why can't we be the Rockaway men?

They're like, it doesn't sound right. It doesn't even make sense. That is always my favorite part. And this is pivoting even more. It's like any like, any, you know, violent group, whatever it is, even like ISIS, like, you know, it's like, well, they got to decide on a flag. You know what I mean? Like, oh, I think that's one of Michelle's jokes, I was actually. I might have a bit.

No, shout out to her. Let's do the whole bit. That's a great joke, man. Watch her special. She's one of the best. But it is hilarious. Like, the internal bureaucracy of any of these things. So funny.

Like, they have an HR department. It's just like, hey, we don't call them that anymore, all right? Yeah, yeah. The Rockaway boys. Shout out to them, Fulton Rockaway Boys. We need to bring them back. Police records show multiple arrests throughout his youth, mostly for petty theft and street fighting. His connection to the Gambino family began through Carmine Fatico.

That crew in the 1960s got he started as a soldier running hijacking operations at Kennedy Airport. FBI surveillance from this period shows him gradually rising through the ranks, building a reputation for both violence and earning ability. Wow. Hijacking operations at Kennedy Airport. What does that even mean? Man, crazy. It's just the diligence. As a comedian, if you made me go to Kennedy every weekend to be.

go on the road, I would stop being a comedian. So, like, it really shows you the ambition of this man. Yeah, that's why I can never be the mob. They'd be like, I'd be like, can't I do a hijacking at LaGuardia? Like, it's like so much closer to my place, like, I don't want to... They would be like, Mark is great, but he complains all the time. They don't have

Seltzer? Yeah, heaven forbid I got to go to Newark. God, look at these guys. The Fulton boys. This is the Fulton boys. Oh, wow. I mean, they look just so handsome. Yeah, a bunch of lookers, but... Oh, they don't even know there's a cop in their crew. They have no idea. That's how dangerous they are. They're like, you keep a cop and a crew.

I mean, this is how undercover used to dress. Like, you just didn't even know. They'd be like, wow. Bill the hat. He's like, oh, a little bit, mu, bo, boo, boo. Wow. They kind of look like the strokes. Yeah, a little bit, right?

It's like an awes. Yeah, yeah. Emo indie band. That's always a banger, by the way. That's great song. Oh, yeah, man. I mean, yeah, they do like very, I mean, just, I love, I mean, that's like, an old Malaney bit,

but like I love that like people used to dress up to do crime. I know. It's like, ah, it's, it was a different time. Yeah, it's like, man, we really had, there was respect on all levels. Yeah, right? And they were like, hey, we're the, we're the Fulton Rockaway boys. And we dressed like this, you know, there was like, there was theater to everything. What a better time.

So fast forward on young, young John Gotti, December 16th, 1985, Paul Castellano, the head of the Gambino family, walked towards Sparks Steakhouse in Manhattan. According to court testimony and police records, Gotti watched from a car across the street as gunmen took down Castellano and his under boss, Thomas Bellotti. The hit, unsanctioned by the commission,

violated mafia protocol. But it made Gotti the boss of America's most powerful crime family. And now we enter into the era of the celebrity Don. Gotti transformed the role of mafia boss. Unlike his predecessors who avoided publicity, he embraced it.

Regular appearances that made a had nightclubs front page coverage on the tabloids, celebrity style arrivals at court, public displays of wealth and power. The Ravenite Social Club became his public throne room. That sounds, what is a...

Can we get a picture of the Ravenite Social Club? That sounds awesome. FBI surveillance captured hundreds of visitors paying homage from men, from made men to celebrities to politicians, his weekly walk around the block with his captains became a media event. That's wild.

I didn't know about any of this before I started looking at this, that they would do walk-around. Yeah, man. And it became like a thing. That's crazy. Yeah. I do like their own like version of paparazzi. Yeah.

Just like followed them. Right? Yeah. That's insane. Under Godi, the Gambino family maintained its interest in construction, labor unions, gambling operations, loan sharking, extortion, drug trafficking, allegedly. Sure. Federal investigators estimated the family grows approximately 500 million annually under his leadership,

though Gotti's high profile lifestyle attracted unprecedented law enforcement attention. Whoa. It is interesting because he did make it so, because, you know, it existed in the shadows. I mean, it exists in the shadows to a point where people were like not even certain that it was real. And then Gotti turned it into like, I want to sound stupid. But like they must have got so many more applications. Really put it on the map in a way, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. Trying to be like an intern or something. Like they must have gotten way more interns. Yeah, it's like almost like when a new like a death. Destination blows up on Instagram or something, and all of a sudden people find out about it. Like, I'm sure they must have been like, our phones are off the hook.

Yeah, what is Santa Teresa? We should look into this. This sounds amazing. Do you think anyone's ever moved to join, like, the mob? Like, you think there's, like, an Italian growing up in, like, South Texas? That's like, I'm going to go to Jersey and, like, try to make it. I bet, man. I, I, yeah, look, the, between that, the Sopranos, the guy.

That's the thing is, like, they're such captivating figures because they are the, like, they are the ultimate anti here. Yeah. Like, the tale of the Italian immigrant. Like, they turn to crime because they're outcast. And, like, everybody can empathize with that. That's really what happened is they were the lowest wrong on the totem pole. So they were, like, everyone's rejecting us.

So we need to start our own thing. They do that. They have the genius move in the end is, like, they just, I mean, they come to fame during prohibition because they control the alcohol racket. So they gain legitimacy there. And then they control the unions. That's really their genius move. If you control the unions at one point in America,

you can control the whole country. So they do this, so then people are like, how could we kind of, like, you know, and also people are like, well, they're kind of just violence incurs with each other. It's not really happening to us because they have this like code or whatever. Right.

So it's like, wow, I just started rambling. How do they control the unions? Oh, that I don't know. That's just something I've heard them say in a documentary and I go, that makes, well, I think it's like, honestly, just strong-arm tactics, you know, where it's just like, I mean, that is the thing. It's like that Mike Tyson quote where it's like, yeah, everybody has a plan so you get punched in the face.

And I think like that's to the ultimate degree sort of what they did. Wow. And like, you know, yeah. So, you know, as a person who's like an impoverished immigrant, whatever it is, of course you're going to relate to their story of success. And like, you know, you're not affected by the violence. So you're like, cool. Not cool, but you're like, it's admirable. Like, I understand it.

Yeah, I think there's also. an underscore, depending on the type of, like, family you were, you know what I mean? Like, if you're doing, like, extortion, I'm like, oh, I don't like that as much. But if you're doing, like, bootlegging, yeah, I'm like, thank you. Yeah, that's awesome. Like, I don't know why

like I draw lines depending on, like, what the racket is. Of course, man. Because I would imagine you would put yourself in the shoes of, like, people of that time period, and be like, I can't drink, and then these other guys come along, and they're like, here's some booze. I would be like, these guys rule. Like, these guys are great. Because I've been

at a party with no booze? Yeah. And then a guy shows up with booze. Yeah, man. Imagine you're at a wedding and it's a dry wedding. How much does it suck? And then in walks in this flashy Italian guy who goes, I heard there was no booze. Yeah, you carry him out like Rudy.

You're like, dude, you've just made the wedding. Like, you're a hero. Yeah, man. And it's also interesting, too, because, like, people hated Italians before this. Like, they were, like, I believe in, like, Louisiana. I think it was the, I mean, you'd have to look this up. But I think in New Orleans, it was, like, the largest, group lynching was of like i think a sicilian guy allegedly shot a cop so then all these

italians were rounded up and hung or hanged and um so but that prohibition they would did it about face because of that which like shows you how much a drunks like americans are like you know what i mean oh 1891 right 11 italian american immigrants in new orleans by a mob for their alleged role in the murder of david hennessee police chief wow some of them had been acquitted at a trial is the largest lynching in American history. Whoa. It's kind of crazy, right? That's crazy.

Yeah. It's also like, you think people hate Italians now. It's like, whoa. Yeah, it's not even close. That is wild. See, this is the thing, my mom would read this and be like, see, they're just persecuting Catholics all the time. Like, I'm a French-Canadian Catholic. And my mom would be like, look what they do to us.

They hate us because of our Eucharist. Oh, man. That's a good, honestly a good point. Believe me, man. Yeah. Italians are the ultimate martyrs. Like, dude, you don't think they love this fact? They're like, sorry all those people had to die, but thank you for fueling us.

Yeah. Yeah, man. Oh, wow. They do hate Catholics. Ugh. I've actually, I've always said this. Shout out to Italians. If we judged food based off religion, I think Catholic food is the best in the world.

Yeah. Think about it. Think about it, right? Yeah. Catholic food. Italian. Italian. French.

Oh. Oh, then we're done. Mexican. Oof, come on. Wow. Yeah, it's over. And then you throw in, like, I don't know, like a couple other random ones. Rwanda, I think, is large.

Catholic, like throw them in there? Like, what does that bring to the table? Of course. Like, if you just think about Catholic food, I think, I mean, what is Mormon food? It's not even in the running. I don't even know what I mean? Jewish food is fine. Yeah, yeah.

Obviously, Muslim food is amazing. Yeah, yeah, that's true. But I don't think it's even touching. No. I don't think so. The big three? Crazy? No way.

And what's Thai? Oh, I think they're Buddhist. They're Buddhist. Which is technically atheist. So atheist food, I think, could be in the running. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay.

But no. But is Thai Buddhist? Can we find that out? We should look at that. But I think Thai might be Buddhist. Okay. Yeah. Even I think Koreans, they have a large Catholic population. They do. They do. Yeah, no, I agree with you. Best food. I mean, Hindu food might be close.

That's true. Because Indian food is very nice. Yeah, that is really good. So Hindu food is good. Okay. But yeah, I still, I'm going to put Catholic food at the top. You guys, what do you think? All right? Hit me in the comments. All right, the eventual downfall Oh, yes. of John Gotti. According to the research here,

Gadi's undoing came from his underboss, Sam of the Bull, Salvatore Gravino. The FBI had bugged the Ravenite Social Clubs upstairs apartment, recording Gadi discussing multiple murders and criminal operations. Unlike the careful Gambino, Gadi spoke freely about his activities. They put a bunch of evidence against him, different hits, payoffs and rackets,

allegedly, admissions about the Castellano hit, and details of other criminal operations. And yeah, he eventually provided testimony that corroborated the FBI's recordings. And in 1992, Gotti was convicted of murder, conspiracy to commit murder, racketeering, tax evasion, illegal gambling, and obstruction of justice. Wow. Yeah. And I think there's some issue to Giuliani and, like, the RICO law,

which I think allows them to be charged for, like, everything at once. So it was, like, a way. It was this novel way, I think, judiciously to put them away. Is that the first time that the RICO was brought in was for Gotti? I think it was, it was an older, and I, this is, I'm so glad you preface this when I'm speaking to my dumbest friend. I think it, I'm probably mistaken here, but like, I think it was an older law that Giuliani enacted for wrangling up, because, you know, that's basically, that was his agenda.

was wrangling, figuring out a way legally to wrangle organized crime. Right. Oh, the trial took place in September 2009. Whoa. Wait, what? Oh, that's, wow. Is that true? That seems like a long time later.

Wait, no, he died in 2002. So this seems like an AI mistake. Trial took place in 2009. That doesn't seem right. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure that's like how the RICO stuff works. Yeah. In my very layman's understanding is that, in fact,

because these mom guys were so smart, they were able to distance themselves from anything that they ever did, and so you could never actually get them. You could get the under guys, you get the soldiers, but you could never actually pin them. But because of the RICO thing,

you're now able to draw threads that I guess legally were not there in the past. Yes, that's exactly. Yeah, that sounds right. And now I think that's like what they tried to do with Young Thug in the YSL case that happened in Atlanta. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think they attempted the same thing, the RICO stuff. Interesting, man. But I think eventually, as of now, I'm pretty sure. I think he took some type of thing and is not facing... I think he's got parole.

Okay. Something like that. I don't know. I don't know all the details. It's not about why so. Okay, this is about John Gotti. But yeah, he was sentenced to life without parole. He spent 23 hours a day in solitary and confinement.

Damn. Solitary is the most insane thing. I know. It's like crazy. Yeah. Like, I don't... Like, I guess, like, I don't know if prison is really for rehabilitation. You would hope that it kind of is.

Sure. But solitary is just insane. Yeah, solitaire are just like, oh, we want... We want a... just completely degrade you and take away your humanity. I mean, don't even wrong. This guy probably commits some crimes. People in solitary, you know, I'm not going to say do or don't deserve to be there.

But, I mean, that is brutal. It's such a weird thing because at that point you go like, the effect is just what, the torture of a person? But then at that point you're like, there's no end game here aside from they just like, they die. We got some breaking news about one of your countrymen. And we are the first to break this. Quite literally, the first to break it. allegedly, and again, I want to be careful because obviously this person has not been

convicted. This is coming again from a Twitter account that I found that allegedly, the shooter in the United Health Care CEO shooting was a UPenn graduate named Luigi Maggione. Yeah, brethren. On behalf of the Italian-American community, I'd like to speak about Mr. McIone.

Yeah, I mean, this is a tough episode, to break the song, because, you know, I know you're very sensitive about Italian stereotypes based off the way you're raised. I know you're, you don't like these kinds of things. Tracksuit. We're not all track suits and Cuban links. You know what I mean? That's what you were saying. Hey, man, some of us graduate U-Penn. Yeah, exactly. But we still do the Italian. It's so funny. You just can't go away from your heritage no matter what. It is amazing. This guy went to Wharton, the whole thing. And then you're telling me about crime against Italians. I'm like, no, you got to get it.

You got it. And then this guy's putting poetry on bullets. It's so theatrical. You know what I mean. He really can't help it. God. But yeah, apparently, again, this is coming from a Twitter account, so it is absolutely true, and there's no way that this is in any way, you know. This is fact. Yeah, there's no way this is fake.

But apparently it's two degrees from UPenn, graduating in 2020, which, again, if his graduation got affected by COVID, I can see how he'd be frustrated by that. Bachelor of Applied Science in Computer and cognitive science, and then a master's in computer science. I'm assuming that's MSE. That's got to be master's. That's how dumb I am. I don't even know the abbreviations. Yeah, man, that sounds good to me.

You said it, and I was like, yeah, man, I'm going with that. Like, Ph.D., I don't know what that stands for. Physically hot dude. Because I think when you become a doctor, you just look better. Which, he was. This guy was quite the looker. Can I say this? And I hope, Manjioni didn't do it.

And this is just a way to draw. Can you imagine if he doesn't do it? And then, like, the influx of DMs he's getting that are just like, hey, I know you didn't do it, but like, that's a hell of a pick of you in the wilderness? Like, you graduated? He's the next bachelor. He's absolutely going, regardless of if he did do it or didn't do it, he's absolutely going to get insane play from this.

Like, Menendez's brother, stop. You know what I mean? Like, you know how they were getting like insane, like letters and stuff in prison? Sure. Like, yeah, I'm concerned. Like, I don't want my wife to see this guy. Like, I'm going to keep her off the internet for the day. Because he's just too handsome and like he's a bad boy, but like in the good way.

Like he's like trying to like fight for the common man. Yeah. My wife's going to be like, can you just say deploy, depend and defend in bed? Yeah, for sure, man. Yeah, and apparently people are calling up tweets of his that are interesting. Like, where he's like sort of tweet. He's, uh, he's just the lyrics to wop by Meg the Stallion.

So I don't know how that applies at all, but it is interesting. I guess he was a big fan of Nikki Minaj. No, uh, he's debating utilitarian ethics versus virtue ethics. Okay. Basically saying the utilitarian ethics say the action is good if the consequences are good. Right. The virtue ethic would say the action is good if it is what a virtuous person would do.

Poll results indicate respondent's moral framework. And then homicide is worse consequences and then the R word here is worse virtues. So yeah, this is just a tweet of his sort of like dealing with the philosophy, I guess, of like, you know, what type of ethics are the best framework? I will say, man, what a higher caliber of a sat.

You know what I mean? Like in terms of like, hey man, if people are worried about the education system in America, if these are our level of assassins, Pretty good. Yeah, exactly. What class did he take? You know the monopoly bag thing?

No. Apparently they found his backpack in Central Park. Okay. And it was full of monopoly money. Hilarious. Which is a Joker-esque level, like tactic. Wow. Yeah, sort of insane.

This is... Yeah, man. I mean, there's a weird... And I know it's obviously, and we were talking about it off break a little bit, but I would be a hypocrite if I had zero empathy for the, you know, the CEO that he killed. Yeah. But at the same time, there is that primal bone of me that is a little prideful that he's Italian. And he's so Italian.

Luis Jimangioni? Good Lord. That name is delicious. That is a meal I'd like to eat. I mean, yeah, it is crazy. Again, you've got to wonder what his parents think. Like, yeah, I don't know. It's going to be interesting to see how the ripple of this plays out.

I would say if there are anything like my Italian family, they'd be like, Luigi did it. You know what I mean? And not that side of the fact. We're talking about my mom's side of the family. A kid's a star. Yeah, kids a star. His name up in lights, Luigi, you did it. Ah, that's beautiful.

Move over, Mario's brother. Oh, dude, calling him Mario's brother is just disrespect. That's what I mean. It's like, he's knocked down, man. He's no longer the most famous Luigi. Yeah, that's true. All right, let's just button up this story on John Gotti. Like we said, the Rico took him down.

His legacy lives on in pop culture, criminal underworld that he once dominated he is indeed the last dawn the final mafia boss to achieve celebrity status and perhaps the last to wield the kind of power his predecessors enjoyed and his story is a cautionary tale he got he got big

he got very big I wouldn't do that I don't know I'm not I'm not built like a mob boss I don't have the I don't have the disposition I just wouldn't I get so anxious I get so nervous I'm course man you know what I mean like the Wi-Fi went down you almost lost your mind You saw it, right?

Like, that's just like, I don't understand. And I've talked to guys that have been allegedly affiliated with, you know, organized criminal activity. And that's the question I'm always asking, is like, how do you deal with every day being like, is someone going to take me out? Totally, man. Are the feds going to come? Like, that feeling is inescapable. Totally, man. That's the way they're living.

I mean, that goes back, that harkens back to the gambling thing, the women on the side. You know what I mean? Like, the release you have because you're living a certain way. also needs to be high stakes. Yeah. And like, I can't imagine, yeah, that amount of, like, as even a full-time comic, I'm so stressed out, you know what I mean? Yeah.

And my life isn't on the line. It's just like, I don't know how I'm going to make rent kind of thing. Yeah. But your body living on, that's a whole different level of anxiety, man. And it's interesting because the guys I ask the question, do they always go, no, didn't think about it. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Never faze me. Yeah. And I believe them because I don't think they can do the work that they did for as long as they did with the anxiety that I would likely experience. Like, I just think, like, I take them at their word. Yeah, I think if you grow up in it and it's what you know, you're just sort of become accustomed to it, maybe. And even if, like, I don't even think if they know that, like, they're living with those nerves just because they grew up in it. Like, it's almost like, I thought the Sopranos did a good job of capturing that. We're like, you know, Tony, he has to go to a therapist.

Like, he just has these panic attacks. But, like, they're never sort of allowing themselves the moment to process why. I mean, maybe they are now, but, like, but I don't think back then they were doing that. They were just kind of, like, going through life with this, like, underlying, raging anxiety because of the way they're living, obviously. When did you watch Sopranos finally? Well, Sopranos are interesting because Sopranos came out when I was, like, a latter half of my high school years. And Sopranos, a lot of it shot, like, near me in North Jersey. Right.

So it's, like, the last scene in Holstein's. is like, that's the ice cream parlor we would go to after football games. Wow. It's like in Bloomfield, New Jersey. Yeah. So like, so it was like, a lot of it was like,

that's the deli, you know what I mean? It was a lot of those kind of moments. That's my uncle. This is very close to home. Is this the Truman show? What the hell is happening? I'm like looking at him right there. I'm like, here, how did you do it?

What the hell? But no, the Sopranos was like, I think the Sopranos, was just so good into taking to account almost all sides of it and like really showing these people as people that I think like it was watchable for me. I mean, there are moments like honestly like the the murder the violent moments are always difficult for me and I think they're never not going to be like even in shows like even if it's not muff you know organized crime related where it's like there is a like a gangland style killing or assassination. It's hard for me not to go to sort of my father's

final moments. Right. So but like. Otherwise, like, the Sopranos, I thought, did a really good job of, like, because I felt myself rooting for Tony. So it kind of, like, humanized. Yeah. So it's like, I didn't know, I didn't know the details about my father at the time. But post-watching it, it's like, it's humanized him a lot. So I think the Sopranos is actually really good. Yeah.

I mean, just insane. Do you know any specific stories about your dad that you haven't, like, shared so far in the conversation? Um, not too many, like, uh, I, I think my mom and myself, not out of like, uh, just, um, I've been a, um, not that, like, they're bad people or anything like that or like, they're people that are about, like, nothing like that. Just people that might have known him at the time. Like, I, they've, they've said some, like, kind of vague anecdotes, but nothing like. Any funny stories? Yeah, that's what I was trying to think of. Like, not, not really. I think they, he was a pretty serious. guy. Really? That's what my mom said.

He was very, that's why she thinks it's so funny that I do comedy because she was like, he's a very, aside from his carpenter joke, which you could argue was not really a joke, but he was a very serious guy who sort of looked at himself as like a very like, you know, sort of like dapper, like business-minded, like, and I think that's kind of how he rose a little bit was that like he was a, he was more like mathematically oriented kind of guy. Oh, interesting. So like, I mean, I know he loved to gamble. that's like they were like he was a great craps player that's really like what they were like he were

he kind of is every it's so funny he's so much of what i'm not and it's like that's the interesting thing with the show is like seeing like nurture versus nature of like hey he could he have been me if given complete like autonomy to do his own thing or could i have been him thrust into the world he was in so it's like it's kind of interesting because yeah my mom was like uh he was like he's very serious you're not serious he was very good at math you're horrible math. He was like, he could sing,

you cannot sing. And then he was like, he's pretty suave. He's like, I've seen you around your wife. You're not. Like, you know what I mean? I love that they find

just ways to insult you. This is amazing. What a good Italian family. Like, let me tell you about your father, all right? He was successful, handsome, good with women.

You guys are nothing. Yeah, yeah. Fitting hair, but somehow he pulled it off. You have a full head, but still somehow you maintain no level of attraction. No,

it's funny because my mom at one point, she, after he had passed, And it wasn't anything like, nothing demonstrative on their end, but they wanted to be a part of my life more than I think my mom wanted them to be just because she was worried about, not so much she was worried about my own safety. She just really wanted me to have a chance of completely my own life. So like it wasn't like complete disconnect from them, but like she was careful about sort of like visitation, whatever it was. So she, I went to court for custody for me.

And she told me later on the stand, she was like, I have a. very anxious child and I was like Jesus Christ like you had to say like she was like yeah a courtroom she was like I mean he can't even he can't sleep without a nightlight I'm like oh he's just like roast in me in a courtroom so this is on the record yeah this is public record yeah yeah I've just like my stenographer wrote this down weird idiosyncrasy like he tucks the covers above his gorehead he's a latent bedway like we know this verifiably she did not purring herself this is documented. Yeah, there's claw marks in my shoulders from the way he hugs me. God, here's his Christmas list, by the way.

Oh, that's great. Yeah, I've done embarrassing things, but it's never been as a part of, like, sort of, you know, court testimony. You know what I mean? It's never been testified with a judge. Yeah. Like, I'm sure there were Snickers, you know what I mean, in the courtroom. Wait, when was this, when was this custody, that? This was like, so he died when I was seven months old. Right. So this is like years following that, where she was like... And who was attempting to obtain custody?

His side of the family. Some members of his side of the family. And it wasn't even like, I think it was a level of custody. I don't think it was like they wanted full custody. It was some kind of visitation. And like I said, it wasn't like wholly bad people that like they were asking. It's like because not everybody, you know, like not everybody is involved. And also if people do bad things, it doesn't mean that they don't have redeeming elements for children.

And my mom is also seeing these people in their best, like the worst light is being shielded from her. So she knows them in their best light. Obviously horrific things have occurred. And she's aware of that. But she knows them as like these are, you know. That makes sense. She's just looking to give you a fresh start. Yeah, that's really all it was.

So like, but yeah, she really wanted to convey, you know, the sincerity of the moment, I guess, by bringing up all of my specific fears. Yeah, this kid's a loser. You can't let this kid be around these people. I mean, it's true right now, but I swear to God, at 15, you can't picture it before. It's just no way. You got to also wonder what that carpenter did. I mean, sure. What is a car?

Like, is a, like, if he's a contractor. I get it. Yeah. If that's what he's kind of a meaning to say, this is a contract that also does some woodwork. Yeah, yeah. I think he's free and clear. I give him a pass on that.

Because contractors, I mean. Of course. They're all crooked. But a carpenter, I mean, that's Christ job. Yeah, I mean, like, this is like a, I don't know, a messianic. What's more Christ like than forgiveness?

Exactly, right? So perhaps. Yeah, I mean, geez. But also what's more Christlike than being a carpenter that gets killed? Sure, that's also true. Yeah, yeah. They're good with the bad. And at 33.

Your dad might have done the second coming of Jesus. Yeah, you might be right, man. That's crazy. Anyway, let's talk about another mob boss. Please. All right, and we're going to kind of just change up gears a little, okay? We're going to go to Medellin. Whoa.

Talk about Pablo. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. When people say the mob, I think they'd think about, you know, Cozo Nostra. Of course, of the Italians. Our guys. Yeah, but Pablo, I think, cannot be understated. I think it needs to be discussed when we're talking about

organized crime. He's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, fascinating human being. 1975, he gets arrested for cocaine possession. The sort of, you know, unremarkable, 26-year-old couldn't have appeared capable of what would, uh, become one of the largest drug trafficking operations of all time. That's that, that infamous mugshot of him, I believe. Yeah, it's just, it's pretty great. It's an insane. And he's 26. He's just kind of having a good time, which actually gives me kind of faith. Like, I feel like Gary Vien, moment where I'm like, hey, if you're 26, Pablo Escobar didn't start popping until he was like nearest 30s, you know?

You have time. Oh, you got time. Guys, if you're not successful by the time you're 30, just look at this guy. He was, you know, he was just a low-key sort of, you know, cocaine advocate. He was just a user. So, I got my Comedy Central half-hour presents at 34. Yeah, right. And, you know, so.

You have time. Everyone relax. There's levels to accomplishment, but I think it's up there with Pablo and the trajectory of his life. If you want to become an organized crime boss, still time for all of us. Okay. Oh,

here's the infamous mug shop. That smile, man. Which is just sick as hell. He's also, this guy's built for 26. Yeah, he looks like a linebacker, dude. Right, like, he's broad-shouldered. Yeah.

You wouldn't, you wouldn't, you wouldn't, obviously, you know, he's got some issues? Yeah. But, yeah, we're not. But great energy. I mean, he's on fire.

And all the guys that go with him in the locker room, they come out feeling way different. You know what I mean? 100%, man. He might be a morale guy. Picture is drip. There's a locker room guy

if I ever saw one. Dripping with charisma. Are you kidding me? Or it's the cocaine. But regardless, whatever it is, it's working. It's brought it to the surface. I mean, it's amazing. If I had that, I would, I would have had an hour at 34.

And with the shirt, too. I mean, he is. The whole thing, man. The shirt is a little bit dental hygienist. Like, it is a little, like. Dental hygienist. You definitely grew up in Florida. What?

Dental hygienist. Are you out of your mind? I mean, it is just, It looks like there's like butterflies or something like. Like it looks like like what a... You're insane. Like it looks like scrubs a tiny bit, okay? With all due respect.

I mean, he changed up his vibe. Sure. You know the collared shirt scrubs with a couple buttons open. All right. The collared shirt's good. Kind of Orlando dentist did you go to. It is a good point, actually. My dad is probably connected to organized crime, to be honest.

He's like, yeah, no cavities, but I'll give you the nectar. I'm a good time guy. Yeah, exactly. He's like, we're going to do gold caps, all right? But I got a deal on, okay? My buddy Tony's going to get a. gold for the low. You're like, why are you giving me opioles? They're like, some of the lollipop. Not around here.

Pablo Emilio Escobar Gaviria. Gaviria. I don't know how to pronounce it exactly. Take you're doing it. Began his criminal career in Medellin, allegedly. I'm just throwing allegedly's all over the place. I don't even know. Full documentary is made about this guy, movies, whatever. We don't know, though, folks. Look, we can't just crucify people in the court of public opinion. They got to go and be proven.

you know, guilty beyond a shout of a doubt. Shout out to Mangione. During the early 1970s, he was rising the ranks. His early schemes included selling contraband cigarettes, stealing cars. You know, we all start somewhere. Wow, what a fast and furious trajectory. Do you know what I mean? Just like petty DVD thieves to just, they're in outer space and a Camaro.

Crazy, right? What a, what a time. Contraband cigarettes. Yeah. Yeah, it's just hilarious that that was ever a thing. I talked to a guy that was an undercover FBI guy Bob Hamer

Fascinating human being And yeah he's the man Bob shout out to Bob But he was trying to get a Sort of Chinese crime syndicate They're like an organized crime syndicate That was working with the North Koreans And operating out of China at some point

In like the 90s And the way that they like Eventually started tracking him Was because they were selling Counterfeit Marlboros And they were like shipping them in And then they were selling them across the country and what's fascinating is that in there they would predominantly get shipped into like Chinatowns

across the country because the distributors knew the like mom and pop sort of corner store guys in these Chinatowns and so they were buying them and flipping them and you could sell them for the same price of cigarettes like 10 bucks or something but you're getting them for half the price of regular barbers so everyone's getting making money on it but what's interesting is that they were made from tobacco fields in China so they were proper cigarettes that look like cigarettes that smoked like cigarettes but they tasted different. Right, right. So to this day, allegedly, according to him, folks that grew up in Chinatowns

that grew up smoking the counterfeit Marlbrose prefer them. Sure, that makes sense. Which is hilarious to me. That you'd have someone that's like, whoa, this Marlboro tastes real. Like, we need, give me the fake stuff. Like, what happened to the fake Chinese Marlboro that I grew up smoking?

Yeah. But maybe that's what... The Marlboro's in my youth. Yeah, exactly, right? They remind me of, you know, Shanghai. But yeah, this is allegedly what Pablo Escobar was doing. It is flipping contraband sigs.

Man, yeah, what a way to start. Yeah, you're right. Like, what a weird, what a weird subculture of crime? Contraband cigarettes. Yeah. It really is like the unpaid intern of the criminal world. You're just looking for your gap. You know what I mean?

That's how it goes. By the 1970s, Escobar organized, his organization had grown exponentially. His operations revolutionized cocaine trafficking through several verified innovations. the establishment of large-scale processing facilities in the Colombian jungle. So he's sort of like Bezos in this way.

Yeah, sure, yeah. We're gonna get, you know, sort of like a centralized facility that's gonna be able to ship stuff, you know, same day. It is impressive. Like, even going back to we're talking about the town, like, when they're like just, they figure out this, like, specific business infrastructure. The plus minuses.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, if we could have just made you, like, economies are, you know, or like whatever. It's like, God, if you could have turned, like, people talk about that with Meyer Landscape, like, where it's like, If you could have just turned your talents to somewhere else, it's like, man, we maybe, the events of what's going on right now might not have happened.

Yeah. But that's the problem is that you're asking these people to make less money. Sure, yeah. Isn't that wild? That is true. If you're like, I mean, it'd be clean money, it'd be illegal money. Of course. But you're basically being like, hey, don't make a billion dollars.

Right, right. Just make a couple million. Right. You're like, you wouldn't have, you wouldn't wake up with anxiety the minute you open your eyes. But I guess, you're like, going back to what we were saying, if you're someone where it's like, it just doesn't register like that for you, they just see it. it like as like, oh, but I'd make less money, so I don't care. Yeah, what's the problem?

What, you know? There is, there's not the, I don't see the risk you see. Exactly. Yeah. So, he was doing these processing facilities, the use of civilian aircraft with modified fuel tanks and cargo holds. Yeah, wow. Development of sophisticated smuggling routes through the Caribbean and the creation of an

extensive distribution network in South Florida. Man. Your alma mater. My God. Yeah, just this combination of Jeff Bezos and Magellan. Unbelievable, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the Silk Road.

You know what I mean? Like, they're like, like, Markopolo. He's like, they're finding these trade routes. Like, there's something about that that must be fun. Like, just looking at a map being like, how do we organize? Totally. Like, oh, there's a mountain range here. We can, I would actually probably enjoy that.

If I had to be an organized crime guy, just being on the logistics side. That's so funny. I'm looking at like the plus minuses, just balancing the books and having to call them up, be like, hey, this quarter, we're, you know, we're bleeding here. That's so funny. They brought you. Like, we need to you. we need a cartography guy.

And you say to have a real interest in maps. There was probably. No, no, of course, man. Of course. That's so funny, though. Yeah, it's just so insane. Escarvars public work programs in Medellin are well documented. So again, showing the ambiguity of these folks.

I mean, it is insane. Like, just to give contrast. That the scale of his operation, just to give you the size, according to DEA investigations, the peak of the Medellin cartel controlled 80% of the global cocaine market. Wow. The organization's earnings confirmed by seized cartel documents

reached $420 million per week. Yeah, that's like, you know, and like hedge fund people like tell you what they make per minute, you know what I mean? It's like that kind of stuff where you're like, oh, that's how rich you are.

Like it's unfathomable. 420 million per week. It's insane. And so again, you look at this and you're like, all right, you know, he's probably involved in some, some, bad business. Probably some people got hurt.

Corrine, are drugs good or bad? This is an ambiguous question. But then you look at the good things that he did. He constructed housing developments for the poor, including the neighborhood known as Barrio, Pablo Escobar. He built soccer fields throughout the city's poorest areas, funded medical programs, and these actions earned him genuine support amongst Medellin's poor, who referred to him as Don Pablo. Yeah, of course, man. Because if you're living there, not affected by it and only reaping the benefits of it, like, you're just going to see it as like, no, this is, this is great. You know what I mean?

Like, if it's isolated, I don't know, you know, I'm not as familiar, but like, if, if you can maintain isolation with it and, uh, because that's what people would talk about, like, I always thought it was funny. They would use this specific example, which are like, all right, the juice kind of isn't worth the squeeze here, but it's very funny. They'd be like, he handed out turkeys on Thanksgiving. And it's like, I mean, how, I guess, for sure. Yeah.

I mean, okay. But they would always cite that, it would just always make me. laugh as that was a, it was like, there's a turkey shortage, you know know about it, and this guy, you know, we don't have them, and insides. Come on, cans of cranberries, this guy's incredible. The duality of man. Yeah, so now we're kind of

again, he's like sort of building up throughout the 70s, he's doing this little operations. And by 1984 to 1991, that little window is the bloodiest phase of what's known as the war years. This is Escobar's war against

the Colombian state. Verified a Tax include the assassination of Justice Minister of Rodrigo Lada Bonilla in 1984, allegedly. The murder... Second. Sorry, was that the one on the plane? It's neither like he blew up somebody on a plane. Sorry. I don't...

I interjected with nothing to stop your progress. Yes, but no. Okay. Not that one, but you're exactly right. All right. The murder of presidential candidate Luis Carlos Galan in 89. And the bombing of Avianca Flight 203, killing 107 people on board.

allegedly tough I think yeah yeah for sure so again it's like all right you're building houses you're helping people but also there's a plan that goes down it's like yeah yeah I mean you know there's you know what you're getting into you know what you're lying in bed with you know this comes with it uh so yeah it's you can't turn a blind uh you know for the people that are like but what about this it's like you got to also deal with that but you also you know what this is making so much money too I mean it's insane like you think about like the way that like corporate CEOs in America how their brains change with like sort of you know, unthinkable wealth.

Sure. Like, you gotta wonder how he feels with the same level of unthinkable wealth 40020 mil a week for certain periods of time. Plus also, like, oh, I'm running like a militia. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, say what you will about like, Musk, Gates, Bezos, Zuckerberg, any other like sort of American, you know, technocrat billionaire. Right. They're not forming violent, you know,

militias. Yeah, for the most, right. I think Gates hasn't done it. Yeah. I don't think. I think as far as I know, how cool would that be, though, if you found out about that. I mean, based on the way things are going, they might need to. You know what I mean?

Like, it's like, it seems like the American people are not happy, okay? If I'm in that position, if I'm a B, if I'm a proper B, I'm getting some boys. I'm getting a militia. I'm getting a whole squad lined up. And you're like, and to be, and fellas, let me be, I am the map guy. I know I'm the boss, but I am strictly the map guy. Yeah. Yeah, the, uh, I do.

I love to Pablo. Escobar, 420 million, and he was like, we got to get some hippos. I always love that that's like, there was like a child, like, whimsy about him that he maintained throughout the whole thing. Yeah, it is beautiful, right? Yeah. There is a little element. Yeah, man.

I mean, MJ kind of is the same thing, right? Exactly. He's like, hey, I'm the biggest pop star in the world. Let's make like a little old theme park. Yeah. But with him and Siffering is, you're like, okay, you see a stunted child. That's what this is. You know what I mean?

And, like, you're like, but with Pablo Escobar, you are a, you are a violent drug dealer. You're just like, can we get some, can we get some livestock in here? Bring in the Barnum and Bailey's, all right? Let's get a train car. It's so, it's just such a great contrast. Yeah. Have you heard of La Caterdall? You probably never heard of it because no one's ever pronounced it that way.

That's not at all how you pronounce it. But by 1991, Escobar negotiated a unique surrender agreement with the Colombian authorities. He had a custom-built prison, La Cateradal, including. included features documented by multiple sources, personal oversight of security personnel, so he basically controlled the COs, restricted police access, luxury accommodations,

and the continued operation of his business through cellular phones. He remained there until July of 1992 when authorities discovered that he was conducting business and ordering executions from within the facility. His escape from Lacradale sparked the largest manhunt in Colombian history.

Man, I get it a little bit, because it's a little bit of a heat trick, because he's getting away with so much in the prison then he goes like hey can I just do bit like and then they're like we can't do that you know what I mean but I get it because they're allowing so

much grace for it. I've ever heard I'm pretty sure at one point Escobar brought I think like the Brazilian national soccer team to his prison right Chris says can you pull up a video of this if I'm not mistaken I'm pretty sure it was Escobar while he was in

in the prison they had this big soccer field I think it was a Brazilian soccer team. I think Diego, no, it might have been Argentina, because I want to say Diego Maradona, like, played with him. Like, or something like this. Can we, man, we should get the details on it. It is amazing when people do, like, modern-day king kind of stuff. Right.

You know, where it's just like, I think I'd like to wake up to a rhinoceros and maybe do a penalty shootout with Diego Maradona. It's like, oh, and you can make that? It's kind of like when Sultans are like, hey, can we get Rihanna for my son's, like, age birthday or whatever? Yeah. It's really great. I mean, oh, okay.

Oh, maybe it was, I think it was Atlatico, the Medellian-based Atlitico Nacional. Okay. Oh, they have a 30 for 30, the two Escobars. Oh, right. Right, right, right. Yeah. I mean, just insane.

But it would be, I mean, you got to wonder, like, do you play defense on him? Yeah, of course. The mindset of you coming over there to be like, I'll let him win, right? Yeah, I mean, but also at the same time, you've got to go hard. Of course, because if he sees that.

disrespect of course then like yeah you don't want to placate him because that's a whole other thing so you're just like what just be stressed again it's like i can't even handle the stress of going to play ball totally with a mob boss oh like yeah man of course yeah what is the move here you almost want to be transparent about like hey so here cards on the table i want to walk out of here alive yeah i don't want to treat you like a child at the same time i don't want to disrespect you and you feel disrespected in front of your peers or whatever it is. So you let me know,

percentage-wise, how I'm going here. Yeah. Because I am a professional soccer player and you are a guy who does a tremendous amount of cocaine every night. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're built like America Football. Yeah, exactly.

So it's not, chances are it's not going to be great for you. What is the move? Yeah, that is stressful. I would just, yeah, I don't know. I think you've got a faking injury. That's what I would do. That's not a bad move.

Actually, I think that is the move. Faking it and just like, hey, my kill is. So you go, yeah, that's, That's it. So he eventually escapes. Escapes. I think he just walked out.

Of course. And the search for Escobar, Eskabar involved unprecedented cooperation between the Colombian authorities and the U.S. agencies. The search block, specialized Colombian police unit, worked with the DA and the CIA personnel

to track him through radio triangulation and phone surveillance. December 2nd. Not long ago, you know, the anniversary just passed. 1993. The search block located Escobar in Medellin and official records.

indicate that he was killed during an attempt to escape across neighborhood rooftops. Sure. I mean, wild. Also, like, I mean, you know, I guess just birds eye view, pretty cool way. The neighborhood rooftop, like, you know, I mean, like it feels like Aladdin. It feels, you know what I mean? One jump ahead of the breadline. He's just flying around.

Yeah, and that's funny. He has a monkey too because of whatever. We got hippos. We have capuchins. Yeah. I'll say too, man. And this, not to go back to, you know, our boy, Mangione, but the idea of, there's gotta be a little bit of like, it's kind of, you've got to feel good a little bit, or at least,

like, bin Laden, Escobar, this, you know, this guy was just like, the whole country wants me. You know what I mean? There has to be a little bit of you that's like, it's a little bit of an ego. Yeah. Bro, this guy's Twitter is still up. Oh, yeah. Your boy. Crazy.

man, I wonder who's running it. I wonder what friend has the password that, like, I mean, what is he? 26? He's got to have some dumb friends. Yeah, I mean, let me say that. It doesn't seem like he's, uh, he hasn't posted in a while, but he has, like, all these old tweets. Again, I'm sort of apprehensive to read them

just as I'm like, I don't know if... Sure, of course. You know, until he's convicted or at least, like, I've read from something not Twitter that he's been apprehended. But if anyone's interested, I mean, his Twitter's still, still kicking. It seems Kaczynski like,

in terms of the intelligence. That's the problem. You read Kaczynski's, you know, manifesto, and you're like, pretty good points here. This guy's been fat, really? This guy got barred or not? Look, he's off on some stuff. Don't get me wrong, you know, you got to delineate.

But, like... It's bad. Yeah, you shouldn't do crime. Shouldn't do crime. Terrorism is bad. Of course. But he does say... But everything up until the terrorism. You're like, Theodore, there are some good points here.

Well, that's like, remember when Osama went viral on TikTok? Yeah, yeah. Everyone's like, wait a second, that's what a Sama guy? That was, that was bananas. Yeah, it's insane. It's all insane. Because that, you know, doing bad things is bad. Of course.

And I think also, of course, it goes without saying. But everything up until the bad things. Yeah, you know, look, there's, you know. But I think that was so crazy Especially someone who like was around in the New York area You know from Jersey Around that time who like you knew someone who knew someone who was affected by 9-11 To have another generation that was just like well it's just it's just the move it's the movies for us for them to be like

That is a good point So that was an interesting thing that was I and I'm a liberal but like that was a bridge That was the moment where I was like I'll homeschool my kids Like this is the moment This might be a bridge Too far from me. That is funny. Yeah.

But, dude, I just had a child, like a couple months ago, and I tell people, I'm like, yeah, you know, I like to homeschool. People look at you, like, you're crazy. They look at you and they're like, you can't do it. As if, like, school is, like, doesn't have any issues. No, man. It's like, hey, I don't know if you've seen the news. Yeah, there's some wild shit that happens at school.

Yeah, man. It's like, I'm not saying every person should homeschool with their kid, but I'm saying, if you're a decent guy. If you're a good father. If you're a good family. I watched, there's that new, like, I don't know if you saw it, there's like that Hulu, whatever part doc called social studies about like just high, it's just the documents a year of high school students coming out of the pandemic and like the influence of social media on them. Everything that happens within that year is like there's a school shooting. Yeah.

There's, you know, there's these, it's like, to the point, yeah, my wife turned watching it last night and she was like, we don't even have a kid. She was like, we should homeschool our boy. We don't know. We don't have. We, it's... Our dog's being homeschool. Okay? We're not sending

to like puppy training classes. Yeah. All right? We're not getting the dog whisper involved. Because the dog whisper is going to try to make our freaking dog gay or something. You know what I mean? We can't have that.

Our dog's getting homeschool. We don't have to do gender reassignment surgery for our... No, our Labrador is getting homeschool. But yeah, when she said it, it was like, it seemed like such a sensible option. Whereas I think when I grew up, it was like,

come on, that's crazy. But like, it doesn't seem... I don't think it's, I don't think it's going to be viewed so out of whack man in the years to come. I have a confession. Go ahead. I was homeschooled.

Yeah. You can't tell. You mean that? Yes. I do mean it. Thank you. I know there was a little bit of trepidation in my voice.

And I'll say, I'll give you why, because I didn't want to just like blanket a great... I want it, for the sake of entertainment value, I want it to be like, I mean, look, you're a little off to the left. We could all see this, but like, no, you can't tell. Up until, like, the fourth or 50th. I actually had to double-checked. It was like halfway through fifth grade or something like that.

And I went into school. And here's the problem. as I was homeschooled, and the first, like, I don't even know, it was, like, nine years of my life. My entire education system was, like, Socratic. I would just, like, hang out with my mom, and we would, like, debate about, like, religious philosophy. Wow.

Like, we would go back and forth about the Reformation. Wow. And she'd be like, oh, Martin Luther, okay? Wow. Not King Jr., okay? We like King Jr., but Martin Luther, the OG, my mom was just like, ugh, like, this guy with the Reformation, didn't reform anything.

He destroyed the church, and I'm going back and forth to there. Like, that was, like, my whole early childhood. Wow. And then I go to school, and I was doing great in school. Yeah. And then by the time I graduated, I was just like leveled out. Yeah, yeah. Right.

I had a great edge. Right. I just lost it. I was like, damn. Damn. I had such a chance if I was homeschooled. That is pretty amazing. I could have gone to UPenn.

Yeah. Imagine that. If I was a little, if I was homeschooled law, I could have gone to U.Pen. I could have denied and defend and deposed. I could have been something. God, if it is this guy and he's convicted, whatever there is, I mean, if he, if it turns out to be, he's not, if the whole thing unravels in a certain way, and this is all just we're speaking in theoretics here.

The prison letter. I mean, like, the amount of prison letters this guy is going to get. It's going to, I mean, it might be a reality show here. They might to make, they might need to give him, they might need to give him. Yeah, man, give him some geese. Yeah, let him play with Leo Messi. Let him be in a Mr. Beast video. Whatever he wants, all right? Just let it rip.

Let him meet Mr. Bean. Whatever his dream is. Yeah. Give him a hippo. It'd be awesome. All right, let's run it back just to the old school. Talk about mobsters, all right? Guy named the Red Devil in the White City. Okay. Mr. Al Capone.

Sure. Al, do you know what that's short for? Albert. I actually don't know. I didn't look that up before I asked you, which research-wise, it seems like a huge mistake. I mean, in my mind, I'm like, oh, Alfonza. Oh, Al-Fon. Okay, that's got more flair to it than Albert.

Yeah. Known by the nickname Scarfin. this. Oh, hell. I mean, he's like the coolest-looking guy. The coolest-looking got me, right? He's your quintessential looking, um, you know, sort of like, I think that's the appeal to, uh, the, especially the Italian-American ones, coming down from Al Capone and Tony Soprano included, is that like, hey, I could, I could be a man of prominence, I could be a sex symbol symbol, symbol, and look like, shit. A sex symbol. Yeah, yeah. And it would not look like, but just sort of like not, you know, like people, like,

there are women who are like, Tony Sopranos, my God, you know what I mean? I usually eat chicken parm sandwiches or your boys all day at strip clubs. It's like, yeah, who doesn't want that life? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he looks like my kid. You don't know what my kid looks like. You never met him, but. You showed me a picture before.

Yeah, but they look very similar. No, you're not off, man. I got to, it makes me, I've got to rethink my relationship. In the autumn evening of 1925, patrons at the Four Deuses Club and South Wildeusers' Club and South Wabash Avenue watched as Al Capone received news that would change Chicago forever. Johnny to Rio,

his mentor and boss, was stepping down after surviving an assassination attempt that left him with five bullet wounds. At 26 years old, Capone would inherent an empire built on bootlegged whiskey and broken laws. The young man

adjusted his trademark fedora covering the scars that earned him the nickname he hated and prepared to write his own chapter in Chicago's bloody history. Yeah, it is true. You're like, I don't know, man,

he's a pretty dangerous guy. Maybe don't give him a derogatory nickname. You know what I mean? You think that's going to help things? But that is like a very, like Italian thing to do it, right? I feel like Italian nicknames. They're almost like Jamaican nicknames. Like where it's just like, you know,

like if you're missing an arm, they call you like, oh, handy. You know what I mean? Like, oh, yeah, old Johnny Scarface. Yeah, yeah, you're like, let him give them the name. Let him do it them. You don't just start calling him that. Yeah. No, it is a shame.

Did you have a nickname? Uh, no, just aunt. Nothing, yeah, nothing like, uh, uh, yeah, no. You didn't have any type of deformity. No, yeah, I didn't, yeah, I think, uh, yeah, they, I did, I was tried to be a Tony early on, but I don't think I fit the mold so well. So they were just like, yeah, you do like poetry too much. Yeah, yeah, too much of like, uh, you guys, this guy. Yeah.

Yeah. Did you have a nickname? No, I wish. I always wanted a nickname. Really? Yeah. It seemed like a burden to me. It was like a lot to live up to.

I guess it depends on what the nickname is, right? Yeah, I just felt like it boxed you in. You know what I mean? Like, if you're like, if you're a wild mark, it's like, well, what if you want to just have like a sensible meal? You know what I mean? Or like, whatever it is. Like you're just, you're so pigeonholed early on, I feel like.

Yeah, that is a good point. I don't know. I just, yeah, I never had a cool nickname. I always wanted, though. Do you try to force one on or no? No, this is the thing. My last name, en francis. It's Gagnon.

Yeah, okay. It's beautiful French Canadians. Yeah, yeah. Gignon. It comes from the verb to win. To win, to win and friends Gagne. Okay. So it's got like awesome.

History, it's great. Yeah. And then we move to Florida. It becomes Gagnon. Of course, man. Yeah, what are you going to do? So, like, the litany of nicknames that come from that. I was just like, I'm stuck with Mark.

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Then Mark, you can't really nickname. Yeah, Mark's not. There's no nicknameability with that. Yeah, there's not a lot of places to go with that. Gagnon really, yeah, Gagnon, oh man, man, the first way you said it,

I was like, that's, that is cool. Geyong. You're just feeling shame just saying it. Like, imagine how I feel. Of course, of course. You can't walk around Florida and being like, it's actually Gagnon. Yeah, oh my goodness.

Yeah, you'd be killed. But yeah, so I never had a nickname, but I always one of them. Sometimes you get gags sometimes. I got gags, which is kind of cool. Gags is cool. Yeah, I feel like gags is cool. It's pretty innocuous. Yeah.

That's a fun one to say, man. Gags is cool. Gags. Gags is, no, man, gags is good. But it never really stuck. I never got gags. Yeah, I got DeVito. I would say that's just my last name. If I got Scarface, I would run with that. Scarface is a lot, though, man. You've got to be Scarface all the time.

That's what I'm saying. But then people would be like, you don't even have a scar. I'd be like, not yet. Could be you. Yeah, exactly. Fucking back up. Oh, that's interesting. To give yourself a nickname that almost like minority report yourself with a nickname.

That's fascinating. It's sort of fortuitous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, fucking, you know, very ominous. It's so funny. You're like, I'm fat Mark, and you're skinny. You're like, I'm planning on getting you some weight here. Yeah, exactly.

You know, the FDA is not really... Look at Red 40. You know what I mean? Our food is poison. Okay, it's so processed. You take it like a hard stance. Yeah. I mean, I should do that.

Yeah. Give you some, you know, allow you to be fat. You're like, well, this guy's just living up to the name he gave himself. Yeah, prostate cancer marks. Like, did you have it? I'm like, no, but statistically, you know, one in three, men in America by the time they're 80. Look into the facts, all right? Anyway,

shout out RFK. He's going to fix America. The Chicago that Capone inherited was a city, was a city of stark contrast. The wealthy, dined, and elegant restaurants of the Gold Coast, workers crowded into speakeasies in the shadows of the stockyards. Capone made his headquarters

at the Lexington Hotel, from which he could oversee his growing empire. Unlike other gangsters who operate in the shadows, he conducted interviews with reporters in custom-made suits that cost more than a factory workers a yearly salary. I'm just a businessman, he would tell reporters at the Metropolitan Hotel.

His favorite haunt, I've made my money giving people what they want. What he didn't mention was that his business grossed nearly $100 million annually, all of it untaxed, unregulated, and frequently blood-soaked. Hmm. Crazy. Man, 100 million back then, too.

That's so much money. Right? Yeah. In 19, what is this? 1920? 1930s? Right. What a genius move, though.

Like, these guys are really our genius marketers. You know what I mean? Like to really understand, like, if you look the part, people will go like, I don't know, maybe he's not. Like, what's interesting also is that like there was no, especially in his time, there was no prototype of a gangster.

Right. You know what I mean? Like that's actually who he was. Yeah. Like all these like Italianisms that we talk about, these stereotypes that are offensive to you. He was just that guy. By the way, I just think they're hilarious. Now, now. Yeah.

Now you turn face. Back then, yeah. Back then, I was very... Old liberal tone. Marching colonial. mistake. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's hilarious. Your mom said you couldn't watch the Godfather.

Yeah. That was like, like my mom didn't let me watch Harry Potter. You know what I mean? Different reasons. You know what I'm saying? But similar though.

That's interesting, man. No, I'm actually joking. My mom didn't really care. She was like, I got probably too much freedom when it came to consumption. I had all these older siblings. They would just turn on stuff

and I would watch it. No, I was similar. She was pretty loose. I mean, that's what was a nice thing when your, you know, he was like the bar was so low for me.

Do you know what I mean? Like as long as I didn't commit heinous crimes, it was just like my boy is a saint. Step up? Yeah, totally. Things were not always peaceful for old Al Capone. The streets of Chicago became a battlefield as Capone's organization fought the Northside gang for control of the city's lucrative bootlegging trade. The violence reached unprecedented levels.

Police records show that during one particularly bloody week in 1926, 25 people died in gang-related activities. Chicago's corners became experts in treating bottles riddled with Thompson machine gun bullets. The Hawthorne Hotel incident demonstrated just how brazen the violence had become. Court records detail how Northside Goodman driving past in Cadillacs sprayed the restaurant's facade of a thousand rounds of ammunition in broad daylight. Capone survived by diving for cover.

The next day, workers began installing steel plates in the walls, and they're still there to this day. Man. Wild. Man. Stressful. So stressful. again, I just, I don't, I couldn't even fathom. And also, you read about this stuff and it's like driving around in Cadillacs. Like, it's crazy how things change, but they're also the exact same. Like, what do you mean? Like, you know, the nature of the crime, it's like, it's almost hard because you're like, it's so different.

Like, oh, they're dealing with alcohol, which is federally legal everywhere, basically. It's out of like a county in Utah. And, you know, like the things that they're doing, they're all dressed up. They all have these accents. But then it's like, it's the same thing everywhere. Yeah. Now, today, like, just with our version of whatever, you know, things people are trying to get, whether those drugs or whatever. But, like, even thinking about, like, oh, there was, you know, these sort of gangs that were operating with, like, gambling.

Right. These mobs that were, like, protecting gambling. And now it's just like, yeah, download the app. Totally, man. That, I have no frame of reference, you know, other than, like, a past connection that I didn't even know about, right? Yeah. But it is, like, that pivot is interesting to me that, like, and, you know, that they have to, to change with current legalities is like I just think it's so funny yeah like you're hearing about

people dying over alcohol right is fully legal and like I even talking like I would talk to this you know bookies the guys that like worked these books for different families and they'd be like yeah it's like I don't even have a job anymore yeah the same way because you just download an app totally man there's like that uh like I remember and you know um I think when Japan tivated from like feudalism and like the need for samurai the samurai has to just work and grow grocery stores and it's like that like kind of like it always it always makes me laugh that it's like that could potentially happen with today's like Italian American world of organized crime or whatever that is crazy that they would just be like you know receptionist at like tech firms yeah because that

shogun era right was like what the 20s or something yeah it was like recent history so I think I don't know the exact time yeah but not not so so long ago and then like there was just no need for them and they were such a large part of their society that then they would have to become like they would work in agriculture and stuff like that and they like they had no handle on it because they had no frame of reference for it oh it ended I mean it says here that the shogunate was the hereditary military dictatorship that ended in like the 1870s-ish wow yeah oh wow I didn't I didn't realize it was that recent yeah that's what like but I do wonder if it's like I mean they've always been pretty like malleable in terms of pivoting but I do wonder if now just because

So many major revenue streams are cut off in terms of, like, you know, I mean, sports betting, obviously. Like, that's, I mean, that's, you know, pretty much what they're synonymous with the contemporary one. So it's like, that's like, that's gone now. I mean, I think it's very funny that they would be like, you know, draft kings, we can't do it anymore. Boys give you speculums, we're on to abortions. Yeah, the current contention of the day. It's like, yeah, you know, the mob, they control all the organized abortions. You know, they got a monopoly on.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we are doing gender reassignment. surgery in Texas, you don't forget. That is hilarious. All of a sudden, it's like, January assignment's completely illegal. Imagine.

It's just like, hey, it's federally illegal. There's going to be a mom that's going to prop up and be like, hey, you know, you got a couple hundred-dollar bills. Yeah,

you could go from Leo to Lucy in an afternoon. Have you ever heard about the Valentine's Day massacre? I've heard of it, but yeah, refresh my memory. We're going to explain this and the fall of Al Capone

and his legacy. Let me come back from a short break. I'm just going to hear from some of the sponsors to make this show possible. We'll be back in just a second. See you then. Hey guys, really quick. Did you know that on this day in history

in 1582, Pope Gregory introduced the Gregorian calendar, which most of the world still uses today? Or that in 1957, the Soviet Union launched Sputnik 1, the first artificial satellite into orbit. This event triggered the space race between the USA and the USSR.

I learned these facts, pretty recently actually, on the Smore Camp newsletter. That's right. Smore Camp, the inner sanctum. For this kind of show, we do a ton of research. I have different researchers and friends that help me find information and not everything can make the episode. Either it's like too crazy, it's too, like weird or gory and it will get demonetized on YouTube, or it's just additional and it doesn't always make it, but it always makes it into the Smore Camp inner sanctum newsletter. So if you were interested in expanding your mind, learning new information, and being the most interesting person into every room you step into. Check it out in the description or this QR code right here.

Now let's get back to the show. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because if you're anything like me, you're probably running late all the time. I am. I'm always leaving right when I'm supposed to be somewhere and I never have time to sit down and grab a nutritious meal. And that's why I want to talk to you about this little product right here called Hewle. Huel is absolutely amazing. It's got everything you need, all the essential vitamins and minerals, all the nutrients, all the protein you need. And regular meal packaged in this beautiful, convenient little bottle. That's right. No more of the days of you running out the door being like, oh, just grab some fast food or something. Oh, I'll have like

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camp and get 15% off your first order. Check it out right now. Get control. of your health, get control of your life. Stop being so late. Let's just fix that also. Be on time. All right. Sudden alarm. Let's get back to the show. We are here with my good friend, Anthony Devedo. Tony Devedo. Come on. Tony Dee. Come on, Mr. Gajong.

You almost made it in Korean or something. Madjong. You come with Madjong. Nobody clip that. Please. And we're, again, just getting more, just late-breaking news regarding your countryman, Ouija Mangione. Yeah, they're going to be like, every single detail we're talking about those little,

like every new detail it's just more and more positive about him. Yeah, again, what this guy did is not good, but also he has a six-pack. Yeah. They're going to be like, oh, in 2023, he actually won the NBA slam dunk contest. Yeah.

What? It's like really crazy. He, uh, and I think he's up to 80K on Instagram, or on, on Twitter. Wow. Okay, including my sister,

which I had mentioned you before. Don't like that. All right. That is, starts to make you a little uncomfortable. But yeah, like you had just said while we're on the break,

like this does feel a little different. It is an interesting ripple. Like the way that this whole thing is sort of unfolding. It feels a little different. It feels new.

And yeah, like we were saying, it feels old because you've seen it in movies. Like, Joker, obviously, is the first one that comes to my mind. But like,

I don't, I can't really remember, or like recall recently, or even my whole time I've been alive anything like this. This scale and this like amount

of camaraderie around something bad that immediately. Do you know what I mean? Like sometimes in hindsight like you were saying with like 9-11 and bin Laden and that stuff,

but this feels like immediate like we're kind of on this guy's side for like the worst thing possible. It's very strange. Yeah, culturally it's going to be interesting to see how this ripples out. And again, he hasn't been convicted.

He's just been named as a person of interest. And like it's the best thing in the world if it's not this guy and we've just learned about this great kid for weeks. You gotta make an only fan's

right? Like if I'm him and it's not me and it's like all right I guess I'm just gonna make some money on this you know what I'm shaking right now

is the hawk to a girl. She's like dude my moment the internet was on my side and now they've all jumped ship dang it. Let's talk about another great entrepreneur

all right Al Capone. St. Valentine's Day Massacre, all right? This wasn't just another gangland slang. This was a carefully orchestrated demonstration of power. Seven men, most associated with Bugs Moran's Northside gang. Again, an amazing name. Great name. We're lined up against the brick wall of a garage in North Clark Street, North Clark Street in Chicago ostensibly. Police reports detailed how the killers dressed as police officers used Thompson machine guns to execute their victims. Capone himself was in Florida watching a horse race to establish his alibi.

At the height of its power, Capone's organization was the model of criminal efficiency. Court records would later reveal the scope. 6,000 speakeasies paying for protection, hundreds of enforcers on regular payroll, political protection extending from street cops to judges, bootlegging operations from Canada to Florida. Wow. The Ford Juice Club, one of his first bases of the operation, offered a microcosm of his criminal empire, gambling on the first floor, prostitution on the second floor, his office on the third floor. from here you could monitor his empire while maintaining the appearance of a legitimate businessman.

Wow, man, like a criminal target. Yeah. Just, it's incredible. And this is the Valentine's Day thing? Wow. Whoa. That is haunting. That's the actual picture.

I mean, that's crazy. That's wild, man. Right? And there's something again about this that like because they're all dressed up. Yeah. I don't know if we see it as morbid as it actually is. No, I think you're right, man. Just like, that's, I mean, I only have worn a.

suit on my wedding. These guys were wearing suits to kill enemies. Yeah. I mean, it really is like, and almost too, like, I think from the perspective of the victim, I mean, this is pretty callous for me to say, but from the perspective of the victim, there is like a modicum of like, hey, thank you for dressing up to do this for me. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, everyone's taking it seriously. There's a respect that's granted. Wow. Strangely. Now, Capone didn't just go operate with impunity forever. The end for him came not with a bang of gunfire, but with the whisper of ledger pages. Treasury agent Frank Wilson spent two years building a case against Capone meticulously documenting his lavish spending $500 suits, diamond belt buckles, and a fortress

like compound in Florida against his complete lack of tax returns. In the end, his own extravagance doomed him. Prosecutors used his public displays of wealth against him. I mean, all of these things that he would wear at Cubs games, all the money, the 50,000 he spent at high-stakes card games, the 85-foot yacht anchored off his Palm Island estate, all while declaring no income to the government. It's tragic, but there is something beautiful about it in terms of, like, his rise is because of his lavish spending, and that is his downfall. Yeah. And, like, they're both, like, they seem kind of insignificant, but then they're like, oh,

that's how he goes. It is, there is poetry to it, for sure. Yeah. But the final ledger was stark. 11 years in prison, 50,000 fines, and the beginning of the end for Chicago's most notorious crime boss. When he emerged from Alcatraz in 1939,

his mind ravaged by untreated syphilis, the city he once ruled had already moved on to new legends and new villains. Today, tourists still stop at the former sites of Capone's Empire, the Lexington Hotel, Hawthorne Restaurant, the site of SMC Cardage Company where the Valentine's Day massacre took place.

Most of the buildings are gone now, replaced by condos or dog spas or whatever. But in certain old neighborhoods, you can still find the bullet holes in the bricks. See, just to show, gentrification happens everywhere, all right? Even an old Italian mob neighbors. This is a salt bath where Alcabon once strung a wire

around a guy's neck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In this very gay cupcake shop, okay? In this exact one, there was a brutal murder. Yeah, man. But now in Valentine's age, we do a discount, actually. They do. Yeah, yeah, there's all these, like, dumb themes that they have, yeah, of course.

Yeah, I mean, just wild. In the old neighborhoods, you can still find the bullet holes in the bricks, silent witnesses to the time when Al Capone turned Chicago into his own battlefield. His actual words recorded by Chicago Tribune reporter in 1929, perhaps best sum up his philosophy. This American system of ours, call it Americanism, call it capitalism, call it what you will, gives each and every one of us a great opportunity if we only seize it with both hands. and make the most of it. Yeah, that is the thing, right? Those are the ten poles that, like, everyone can relate to

and seems like, how can you get mad at these guys? But you're like, yeah, but the two hands, those are the hands he's using to, like, physically strangle people. Like, it is interesting, man. Yeah. But. All right, Frank Costello. Sure.

You know about this guy? Like I said, a name that sounds familiar, but hit me, man. Don't worry, I will. This is the gangster who wanted to be respectable. All right. Unlike the machine gun-willing gangsters of his era, Frank Costello never carried a weapon. His power game from a different arsenal,

political connections, business acumen, and an understanding that true influence didn't need violence to announce itself, known as the Prime Minister of the underworld. Costello reshaped organized crime by making it look legitimate. Born Francesco Castiglia in Calabria, Italy, in 1891, he arrived in New York's East Coast

city of Harlem as a child, police records show that his first arrest, age 17, for assault and robbery, but young Frank had greater ambitions than street crime. He changed his name to Costello, believing that it sounded more American,

and began building political connections that would serve him for decades. So again, this is prohibition time. Yeah, okay. Costello formed a crucial partnership with Lucky Luciano and Meyer Lansky, unlike other bootleggers who focused on hijacking and violence,

Costel's operation emphasized efficiency and protection. Again, we're talking about the bureaucracy of how these things go. I mean, lucky Luciano, another handsome guy. Yeah, yeah, man. Luciano, man, good looking. Even you could see the scars on his face, but you get that to handsome man. Right? Yeah.

I mean, wait, where are his scars? You can kind of tell there's imperfections on his face. Oh, yeah. You know, they're slight. You got to wonder if that's from crime, though, or like the way Frank Sinatra got him. Have you ever heard this? So, Sanatra had these scars on his face. If you look at pictures of him, you're like, oh, wow, like, I never noticed it as a kid.

Yeah. And apparently, and I was, like, after I heard about it, I was like, oh, he's got scars. It must have been, like, a street ruffian. Of course, yeah, yeah. Apparently, and again, we probably should fact strike this. It's from when he was born, the doctor was using, like, forceps to extract him from his mother's womb. Right, right, right, right. And, like, scarred up his baby face.

Right. Crazy. That is, that is crazy because then you, because you just associate, I guess you associate, like, earlier times with hardship. So when you see scarred faces, you're like, things were even like, oh, blue eyes, you know what I mean?

They're like, oh, they just didn't have the medical dexterity that we have now. Exactly. Yeah, but it is... It lends itself to the romance of it. Yeah, look at that. Using forceps, the doctors tugged away

of ripping his... I mean, that must be so sad. I just had a baby. The idea of getting your baby and you're like, you guys just got here. You already fucked him up. Like, what the hell?

Already the world is pain? Yeah. I'd be pissed. For sure. See, that's why I'm not even getting my boy, my boy snipped up. Oh, yeah. I'm not doing none of this. I think, enough, enough.

My only issue ever with that has been, because when kids draw dicks, they always draw the circumcised ones. So that would be the only moment I would imagine you go, I feel alone. But later on. Because you would graffiti in class and would be like, why did you just, what is this? Exactly. What is that thing? And you can't talk about whatever your thing is because you're like, I have a different looking one. But then, like, obviously later on, I've heard the sensation is better, so you got that going on.

Yeah, yeah. I think, once again, going back to the homeschool thing, I think this will age okay. But until, and there's kids got to take them to account. There's going to be a practice area, okay? And my kid will be, he's going to be the MLK of uncut dicks. Yeah, man. Draw them the way yours is. Uncut jams.

Yeah, man. Yeah. That is wild. As a kid, I never, anytime I ever drew penises, I always drew them the Japanese way. What's that way? Just pixels. That's how I do it. That is true.

If you look at any of my old textbooks, it'll just be pixels and it'd be like, is he dry a Japanese penis? It's not where you thought I was going with that. It's called misdirection, people, all right? Welcome to the show. I thought, I was like, wow, you were so educated early on. Even your dick drawing was like cultures.

Yeah, it was from the show gunner. Yeah. It didn't have pubes. It was just one long ponytail. It was like a gallery in your notebook. All right. talk about old old costello all right so again he's kind of making his way he's linking up with lucky luciano myer lansky uh he builds relationships of the police and politicians he creates a

legitimate front company develops a sophisticated distribution network and maintains peace with other gangs through negotiations his genius lay in understanding the power architecture of the place he was living he cultivated relationships with uh supreme court justices police commissioners congressional representatives, his influence was so extensive that he was known to make and break political careers. In 1940, investigators documented his control over judicial appointments in police promotions in New York City. He worked super hard to appear legitimate. He had an office at a Manhattan high rise. Again, very different from Al Capone being like, you know, four floors or whatever he had going on. This guy is like, no, I live. The second floor is whores, the third floor's guns.

Yeah, for sure, man. No, he had a Manhattan high rise. Wow. He was an investor. He had a portfolio of legitimate businesses. He had regular attendance at charity events. And again, like we said, relationships with businessmen. Unlike other mob guys who were living in guarded compounds, Costello resided in Central Park West apartment building,

sharing elevators with Manhattan's elite. Wow, man. So you look at this guy and you're like, how does anything go wrong? Sure. Let me tell you. The Keferr. Kefavvar committee. Kefavre.

Can we edit that? I hope... The rest of the... The rest of the episode is you're just figuring out that work. No, this is... You guys know what it is. Come on, everyone...

I just haven't had my coffee or whatever. I love him people said. That's like such as like a boomer. Oh, I haven't had my coffee. Grow up. You're like, you killed a guy. The Kefavar committee hearing in 1951, where he famously refused

to let his face be televised. An assassination attempt by Vincent the chin gijanti in 1957, which left him wounded but alive. He died of natural causes in 1973, one of the major crime figures to do so. Wow, that really is best case scenario to go out. Not bad, right?

You know? Not bad. Yeah, I mean, some guys make it to the end. I mean, there's a interesting story. I talked to a guy, Thomas Mayer, who wrote this book about how the CIA contracted two crime guys to basically try to take out Fidel Castro. Oh, sure, right, right, right.

Sam Giancana and Johnny Rosselli. Right. And they, like, the CIA worked with them. And there was another guy that had worked with the mob that was kind of working with the CIA, da-da-da, and the way Thomas Mayer says it, Traficante was his name. And he was like a South Florida guy.

Okay. And he basically points out he's like, because Traficante, like, he ended up dying of, like, you know, old age in like the 90s or something. something, they were basically like, you know, he might be the guy that really won at the end of the day. Because I think Giancano was taken out and then Roselli was taken out. And then, you know, Fidel never got taken out. Sure.

And Traficante was never taken out. So they kind of look and they're like, oh, were any of these mob guys actually working with Fidel and like tipping him off. And as a result, like, the two of them kind of, you know, his kind of, the way he put it was like, whoever makes it to the end are the guys that like, played the smartest. Totally, man. Yeah, I think that's what you want. Yeah. Yeah, man.

Kind of makes sense. No, it does. And Luciana, I mean, he was, I believe he was responsible for the organizational element of it. I think he held a meeting at the, I'm going to say the Blackstone Hotel in Chicago in 31, where he was sort of like, that he made the pivot from like not be governed by one boss, but five bosses that become known. as the five families that were resided.

So he kind of, I think he laid a little bit of the foundation for, like, the architecture of the organization of it. Let's talk about Lucky Luciano. Let's end with this guy, all right? Basically, I think to, he's also connected with Meyer Lansky, which is another fascinating guy. And Bugsie Siegel, right? They kind of rolled together? I believe so.

Okay. So perhaps no relationship better illustrated, Luciana's break from the old world thinking than his partnership with Meyer Lansky. They met as teenagers on the streets of the Lower East Side. Lansky, a Jewish kid who ran a craps game in Luchiano, a Sicilian, trying to muscle in. Instead of fighting, they form an alliance that would last base with their whole lives. Lansky brought mathematical precision to the operation. He would calculate odds instantaneously in spot cheating in any gambling operation.

While Luciano provided muscle and connections, Lansky provided financial acumen. He pioneered money laundering techniques that are still used today, setting up offshore banking operations in Switzerland and Cuba. Wow. Their partnership proved that the future of crime lay in brains of a brutality. When Luciano was imprisoned, Lanski managed his interests ensuring his partner received his share of the profits. Wow. Best buds. Yeah, man.

Upon Luciano's deportation to Italy, Lansky handled his American interest, sending him up to $100,000 a month in the early 1950s. Wow. The event that shaped Luciano's vision of organized crime was the... Damn, that's another hard word. Bloody Castellamerey War. That one, I feel like I named. I feel like you got that one. The bloody Castellar Maraisi war in 19...

Kephyr gave you a lot of trouble. That one was fine. I don't know how I knew. What the hell? 1930 and 1931, the conflict between Joe Messeria, Joe the boss, and Salvatore Maranzano

had turned New York streets into a war zone. Luciano initially alleged that Masseria, he aligned with Messeria, but secretly plotted with Lanski and other young mobsters to eliminate both old guard bosses. The hit on Masseria was meticulously planned.

In 1931, Luciano was playing cards with Messeria at a Coney Island restaurant called Nueva Via Tamaro. Luciano excused himself to the bathroom for a gunman, including Bugsie Siegel and Joe Adonis, entered and shot Masseria to death. The murder became famous. Messeria was found with an ace of spades clutched in his hand. Crazy.

Yeah, man. And just like you had mentioned before, he basically put together the commission, the five families of New York. Luciano, Profaki, Gagliano, Bonano, and Mangiano. Al Capone from Chicago, Stefano, Magiadino from Buffalo, and Frank Milano from Cleveland. These became known as the commission. They established specific rules.

No member could be killed without commission approval. No one could sleep with another member's wife. That's good. No dealing drugs to children. These are what the Ten Commandments should have. I feel like Moses kind of dropped the ball, or maybe God, rather. What a funny sketch. He comes down from the mountain.

Moses as an Italian guy. But it is kind of don't covet that neighbor's wife. Totally, yeah, yeah, that's in there. For sure. They're just more specific. Yeah, exactly. Hey, stop banging, you know. Right, right.

No drugs to children. Try to find that. Territory dispute should be settled by a vote. All members had to be of Italian descent, although non-Italian associates like Lanski were given equal status. Then there's this guy, Thomas Dewey. You probably heard of him. He sort of led the prosecution of Luciano

and revealed the extent of his operation. Through testimony to emerge that Luciano's prostitution re-encompass 200 brothels across New York City, protection payments from thousands of independent prostitutes, a complex system of payoffs to police and politicians, medical care for sex workers. Wow. Crazy, right? Wow. What a nice guy. Wow.

But also you've got to think. It's like, oh, yeah, I have these women. If they get sick, that's on me. So it's like, yeah, you got to take care of the problem. What a roundabout way to become progressive. Yeah, you're like, hey, we need universal health care for the prostitutes. Right. So just born out of being pragmatic.

Yeah. You know what I mean? This guy was an ally. I had no idea. I had no idea. Impeccable voting record. Yeah. I mean, we need to look back.

Like, at the time, people were like, so backwards. I mean, what year was this even? Like the 30s or something? Yeah, I think it's a 30s. The full scope of Luciano's assistance during World War II included mobilizing dock workers to watch for German saboteurs. So this is a fascinating little ripple. Oh, yeah. Luciano was basically like working with the U.S.

US government. And was actually, I think at one point even like using his connections in Sicily to try to like, attack the like Axis powers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the facchismos in Italy. Crazy. Provided intelligence about suspicious activities in the ports, using mob connections to assist the allied invasion of Sicily and help the U.S. Navy identify landing points in Sicily

using his local contacts. Man, that's what, like, you put that, that's like, that's like, So noble. Like, just, like, country-wise. And that's what I think is so funny about, like, the sort of, like, oh, he, like, he fought the axis of evil back to, like, John Gotti, like, he gave out turkeys. You know what I? It's just such a, like, large-scale, small-scale nobility. I mean, this is better than the turkeys.

That's what I mean. He's straight up just, like, helping. He's helping us win a war hero. Yeah, he's a war hero. He's a war hero. He has a war hero. Yeah. That's wild.

That's incredible. And then in Havana, Luciano and Lansky built a gambling empire that would serve as a template for Las Vegas. Right. That was like the spot. Like Havana back in the day, it was like popping. Totally, man. The Hotel Nacional Casino, established relationships with the Cuban President Batista, created a network of hotels and casinos and set up drug trafficking routes again through the Caribbean. Seems like a common thread.

Yeah. I wonder too, because Castro comes in and cleans all that up. Right. That's his big thing. He closes up all the casinos. That's where Traficante, by the way, was. arrested. A lot of them got killed, but Traficante was in prison, and then he got let out. Right. And so some people think, like, oh, maybe he made a deal. Yeah, that makes sense.

That they didn't take him out, but he was able to go back and basically feed info to, you know, to Castro. Allegedly. Who even knows? I mean, I'm just the kid. I don't, I'm just a good, I'm just a, I'm just a homeschool boy. I'm just a homeschool comedian trying to make it in New York City. You know what I mean? Just everyone back off. Yeah, you know, and here I am. I'm a loving husband. You know what I mean? A loving husband. I'm a beautiful niece and nephew. How great would it be if I was allowed to walk the earth and do my little doodats at night?

Yeah, you don't want to deal with us. We're just, you know, we're nobody's. We're so small-scale. So what happens to this guy, right? He seems like he's got everything figured out. He's helping the boys. Of course, yeah. Take down Hitler.

Take down young Hitty. Like, how is it? How would have? Like, how could things go wrong? I'll tell you. In Italy, Luciano, you know, he lives like a king, right? He's basically deported.

I'm sure he gets kicked back to Italy. say, hey, just stay here, which is not so bad. Of course. Right? Like your classic go to your room where you have all your video games. This is perfect. Yeah, yeah. Like, oh, I'm just going to go to Naples.

Oh, no. His Naples apart and became a pilgrimage site for American gangsters seeking advice. That, I mean, I just couldn't even imagine. Like, an American gangster, you go back to the motherland, you go up to his apartment, like, meet him. Yeah. From his, that's a lot from his perspective. Do you know what I mean? Like, who's coming over today?

Oh, my goodness. Oh, right. Okay, yeah, just okay. It's my Sunday, but sure. And he's, you know, ostensibly a smart guy. And some of these mob guys, he's dealing with are probably dumb. That's what I mean. And he's got to talk, and they're like, so we shot all these people and everyone was mad at us. And he's got to be like, yeah, dude, you can't just kill people.

Like, you've got to be a little sharper. Right. He's used to talking to Meyer landscape about business margins. Yeah, exactly. He's got to sort of break it down for these dumbbells. That's what I mean. It must be so frustrating. Yeah, we dumped them in the lake in no daytime.

Right. Like, oh, you should do it at the night. Do it at the nighttime because there's no lights. Smart, lucky. Very smart. Yeah, he basically just kind of lives his life. He's sort of a pilgrimage site. And he says, he's like doing interviews and stuff.

He does interviews with journalists where he claims that he never had a legitimate job in his life. I never filed a tax return. But I built something bigger than General Motors. Only I built it with brains, not muscles. All right. I'm not going to disagree with you there, but, you know, maybe we look at the track record. It seems like there's some muscle involved. But hey, hey, you're lucky Lucian.

You have to say that. You know what I mean? You're not going to bring up these indiscretions, of course. But I just love to just bring up GM being like, those guys. Those guys are criminals. And maybe he is, you know what I mean? But that's what you have to do, right? You have to be like, we know who we are, but also look at them.

And it's just who they are. So then if you look at things in that light, not so bad, folks. Yeah. I mean, the problem is he's got a point. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, totally, man. You start reading his manifesto, you're like, wait a second. The corporations are enslaving the American people?

Uh-oh. Wait, we're lying about WMDs to kill men. millions of American young men. Wait a second. Yeah, you just have to overlook a couple pages. We're like, all right, we don't call them that anymore, but, you know, sure. He eventually dies in 1962. His funeral in Naples is attended by hundreds.

Back in New York, Meyer-Lansky arranged a second service. No cameras were allowed, but the FBI surveillance noted that over 300 mafia members attended. Lancey reportedly said, at the service, he was the best friend I ever had. Sweet. You get emotional when you hear about these things. Yeah, yeah. Nothing better than friendship. Totally. It's really a tale of friendship.

It's really what it is. You know what I mean? It's like, hey, what was the best part? Was it the prostitution or was it the drugs? Was it the gambling? It's really just the friends you make. It's the real mafia is. That's what the real mafia is. It's the brotherhood.

Yeah, you know, it's the nights we spend up all night, you know, just going through double bags of money. Yeah, exactly. Cracking jokes. Right? Like, that's what it's really all about. But the structure that Luciano created proved remarkably durable. The commission continued to meet

until the famous mob trials of the 80s. Even today, the five families retained the basic organizational structure that he created. His vision of organized crime as a modern business enterprise transcending old world vendettas and ethnic rivalries fundamentally changed how crime enterprises operate. Most importantly,

Luciano understood that violence was bad for business. As he once told an associate, there's no percentage in killing when a deal can be made. The philosophy of pragmatism over vendetta would influence organized crime for generations to come. Yeah.

So there you have it. Man, it's great. Yeah. I mean, what is it? Who was bigger? Okay, so, yeah, I guess this is interesting. Like, of these guys that we've talked about,

how would we rank them? Oh, right, right, right, right. So, like, what do we think in terms of size? I mean, I think you gotta give Luciano like, like, S-tier stats. I think he's number one. You got to put him up there

just because he sort of built the foundation of the whole thing. Yes. And then you might almost go Escobar because just in terms of sheer, size. Of course. You know, and legacy. In terms of just

Netflix. Content. Exactly. The thumbnail for this episode. You know what I mean? That's how much weight this guy's throwing around. And that one Kanye album. Oh, yeah.

The Life of Pablo's a great album. Exactly. And people are like, oh, it's about Picasso. No, no, no. No, no. It's about Eskimo. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah.

So I think I would put him too. And then Capone, you could make a good argument just because he was just such a, you know, iconic I think so, man. I think name recognition alone,

it's like you got to put him you got to put him three. Yeah. And then Frank Costello, you know. Oh, yeah, he got... He's cool. I put him, I put him below. Absolutely.

I'm trying to think, is there anyone else that we... Was there another person? Oh, and then I put your dad, probably at number one. Oh, sure, yeah. Loyalty. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shout out to him. But yeah, I guess I... Oh, John Gotti. Yeah, I guess I would put him... And this is only because in the legacy of these people, I think I would put them five. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think... But there's a hard list, folks.

This isn't, you know, this... We're talking about the top of the top here. Yeah. Well, there you have it. Those are some of the most notorious mobsters and gangsters of our time. We ranked them. We put them in a list. We went through all the interesting details, and

I guess more importantly, we became closer friends. Oh, yeah. This was great, dude. And as we know, that is what it's all about. Yeah. It's my friendship. Yep. You know what I mean. Just like Meyer and Lucky. Yeah. Two of us.

Actually, now that I think about it, I might put Luigi, number one. I might put Luigi. Mangione, yeah, let's see who shakes out. Yeah, exactly. If anyone is interested in hearing more about your story, or if they want to know more about your family and kind of your connections, where can they hear about this? Well, yeah, I'm doing my show again at Second City in Brooklyn,

December 12th at 930. And then, yeah, follow me on Instagram at comedian Anthony DeVito. and that's about it. Hell yeah. Thank you guys so much for watching. Again, we got merch. Here, I didn't really show you guys the back. You can check it out here.

Nice, man. I think you can see it. I think you can see it. All right. They're dope. I really like them. We spend a lot of time on getting them organized. So this will be releasing later this week.

It'll be on the lookout for that. Also, tomorrow, I'm doing a show up Mary Lou. It's in like sort of St. Mark's area of New York City. So if anyone was in New York, I'd love to see you. Come on out. There's tickets on my Instagram. If you're around, you want to do a spot. Yeah, for all means, pop-bye.

Tomorrow, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Come on, come on through. And again, if you want to throw something up on this shelf behind me, we'll have a PO box dropping shortly. Sorry about the Wi-Fi issue. Not great.

All right, but we're going to get these things ameliorated going forward. Thank you all so much. This has been another episode of Camp. See you next time.