Camp Gagnon - NYPD Demonologist: "The Boy Climbed the Wall Backwards" | Ralph Sarchie

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

Former NYPD Sergeant and renowned demonologist Ralph Sarchie visits the tent to share his most chilling paranormal investigations. From working with Ed and Lorraine Warren on a seven-time exorcism case to encountering a man climbing walls, Sarchie details his 40+ years battling demonic forces. He explains the difference between possession and mental illness, reveals the hierarchy of demons, and shares his experiences with cursed objects, Santeria, and unexplained phenomena on the set of 'Deliver Us from Evil.' WELCOME TO CAMP! 🏕️ Shoutout to our sponsors MagicSpoon, Huel, Prizepicks, Morgan& Morgan and Bluechew! MagicSpoon: https://magicspoon.com/camp Huel: https://huel.com/camp Prizepicks : https://prizepicks.onelink.me/ivHR/CAMP 🏕️ FREE NEWSLETTER HERE: https://camp.beehiiv.com/ TIMESTAMPS 0:00 Intro 02:37 Ralphs Background 04:13 Ed and Lorraine Warren 08:23 First Demonic Experience 12:23 Witnessing Ghost Rods 15:17 Flickering LIghts 18:56 Solemn Exorcism vs Local Exorcism 20:54 7x Exorcised Woman With Ed & Lorraine Warren + Tiny Home 29:01 Hierarchy of Demons 31:09 Preparation For Exorcism 34:47 Process of The Exorcism 42:49 Exorcism Becomes Violent 45:00 Mental Illness vs Possession 50:45 The Final Moments of The Exorcism 54:00 Aftermath of The Invitation to Possession Case 55:35 Wartrace TN Case + Investigating With EVP 1:04:42 Local Exorcism Process 1:08:14 Virginia Case + Spirit Disconnecting Engine 1:19:26 Drawing Spirits + Satanism 1:25:10 New York’s Connection to the Demonic 1:27:20 Man Climbing Walls 1:28:45 The Real ‘Exorcist’ Case 1:30:35 Ralph’s Personal Miracle 1:32:40 Knowing The Name of The Demon 1:34:47 Ouija Board + Fake Rituals 1:36:15 Evil Spirits Within Different Cultures 1:38:30 Santeria + Voodoo 1:42:18 Rituals Curses + Satanic Families 1:45:25 Injuries + Deaths In Exorcism 1:39:09 The Mob Using Spells 1:49:21 Are All Ghosts Demonic? + Elemental Spirits 1:51:00 Animals Possession + Contact Objects 1:51:35 Cursed Items 1:56:35 Being Attacked By Demon 1:59:48 Strange Things on Set of Deliver Us From Evil 2:03:50 Werewolf Case 2:09:23 What To Do If You Have Suspicions 2:11:51 Can Other Religions Exercise Demons 2:12:23 Important Devotion Objects 2:13:40 Alien Encounter Story + Aliens Or Demons? 2:17:35 CE-5 Encounters 2:19:30 George Washington’s Apparition of Mary 2:23:25 Psychedelics Role In Religion 2:27:50 Claudia's Case 2:33:32 Ralph’s Work Today + Recent Encounter 2:34:55 One Last Story - Garden Gnomes

It was a young boy. They brought him to the hospital, and he crawled up the war in front of cops and doctors. Yeah, it happens. This is recent. We're not talking about something that happened back in the 18th century. This is Ralph Sarchie, a former NYPD police sergeant who has witnessed dozens of exorcisms. It was either going to be an intellectual exorcism or it was going to be a dirty one. It's more of a battle of wills than anything else.

And today he will reveal. the most disturbing stories of real satanic exorcisms that he was a part of it. And that's when I got the demon told me right out, demon, and I'm coming. Are there demons in your house? Ralph Saratry will explain how you can tell if you're being haunted by the demonic. The demonic will start to act violently. You don't get that in the infestation stage. It's very subtle.

The first thing I'm going to do is... And he even explains how people can unknowingly become possessed. His daughter was in the hospital. He said, I made a deal with whatever to heal her. The kid was healed. Now it's coming for him. And they lied to me, and I couldn't help them. Ralph is an absolutely fascinating person

whose life story was even adopted into the film, Deliver Us from Evil. I'm not going to lie, this episode freaked me out. I'm curious if anyone listening has had experiences with the demonic, I would love to know. Please comment below. But without further ado, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Ralph Sarge. So tune in, light some incense, and welcome to Canada.

What's up, everybody, and welcome back to camp. We are not in our normal, beautiful tent, but instead, we are in the home of a very interesting, fascinating man. He's a former cop, a demonologist, and a devout Catholic. I'm here with the wonderful Sergeant Ralph Sarchie. How are you, sir? Very nice. Thank you, Mark. Thank you so much for inviting us into your home. And more importantly, we have my mother here as well. She's sitting off camera, okay? She's not on camera for obvious reasons. So Ralph, I think the thing that I would like to know before we get into some of the specific cases, and like we had mentioned before, I want to talk about everything from aliens to hallucinogenic drugs to, I guess, the nature of evil as it exists in the world today and how demons and Satan

kind of manifest in our world currently. I would like to just start at the beginning. Can you tell me briefly where you grew up and what your belief about the supernatural and the demonic was like as you were a child growing up in New York? I grew up in a typical Italian household. You know, I went to Catholic school up to the eighth grade. And of course, I was an altar boy. You know, there was just your everyday run-of-the-mill blue-collar existence, you know, in Queens. And back in the 60s, the 70s, it was a beautiful time to be alive.

Yeah. Did you have a strong belief in the demonic? Had you heard of Exorcists in New York? Was this something that was on your radar, something that only came up later in your life? Well, when I was a kid, I was pretty much of avid reader. You know, I read a lot. I read a lot about World War II.

I read about cops and firemen, and I had an interest in spirits, ghosts. I like to read ghost stories. And, you know, being a young kid, kid, I wasn't, you know, mentally capable of understanding the, you know, the awesomeness of a demonic spirit or an angelic spirit, you know, even though as a Catholic, I had a rudimentary background, you know, in angels and the devil and demons. And over the years, in my studies, I got to realize that there is a spirit out there that is in fact real and evil. So, you know, I continued in my studies

for many years until I got involved in it. Right. So you joined the police academy. You become a New York City police officer. And then you hear about Ed and Lorraine Warren. Could you explain who they are and how you got in touch with them? Well, like I said, Being an avid reader and reading that type of genre, I would hear about the Warrens a lot. I read all of their books. You know, any kind of TV show that had them on, I would view it. And it got to the point where, to be honest with you, I was not that keen in getting involved in investigating this stuff. I found it frightening back in those days.

That was a lack of faith. And then I had my first daughter, Christina, and I went out shopping one day for clothes and found a book. And I read the book, and it was about a man, Marie Stariolte from, I believe it was Massachusetts. And, you know, it was a case that the warrants handled. I decided I was going to contact the Warrens at that point, and that's what I did. And the Warrens, what kind of work were they doing, if you could explain that to people that

might not know who they are? Well, I believe back in those days, Ed Warren was probably one of the only recognized demonologists, lay demonologists in the world. and Lorraine was a psychic medium, clairvoyant. And basically it started out. Ed Warren was an artist. He liked to paint. So he was going around.

He was painting houses that had the reputation as being haunted. And then he'd bring the painting to the house and tell the people he'd give him the painting if they would explain to him what's going on in their house. And it sort of snowballed from there. I know that at one point, Ed Warren was very close to becoming a police officer. And he put it on hold, I guess, permanently, and decided to follow the path of a demonologist.

Interesting. So now you're working as a cop. You get in touch with these folks. At this point, you're a New York City cop, you're dealing with New York City crime on a day-to-day basis, dealing with that part of law enforcement. What is the first experience you have with demonology and perhaps an exorcism that changed, I guess, your perspective, really cemented your perspective to say that this force is completely real?

And what did you see that compelled you to believe that? Well, you know, to tell you the truth, I wasn't my first exism that I went to, I wasn't not there as a curiosity seeker. You know, I had already believed in this stuff. I had already investigated some cases and witnessed some phenomenon because I never had any phenomenon prior to getting involved in investigating cases. So it wasn't as if I grew up in a haunted house where I was witnessing these things all the time. I never saw anything, at least that I recognized.

So, you know, it was a matter of faith. You know, my faith tells me that these beings are real. So I have to believe that they are real. And then getting involved and actually, you know, witnessing them in action, you know, sort of cemented everything. But the exorcisms, you know, they came later on in my investigations with the Warrens. And, you know, that's when I started to really experience how the demonic, you know, they operate. And what was that first exorcism that you went to? Well, I'm talking about a solemn exism of a person now, or is it of a home?

Because I remember the first house that I investigated, but there was no exorcism performed in the house. I was, it was my first case. I was brand new. It was in Saugaties, New York. And it was... Now, it wasn't my case. It was Ed and Lorraine's case. So I'm not 100% on the details.

But I could tell you what I observed. The family... They lived across the road from one another. The old man lived... lived in one house and the rest of the family lived across the road in the other house. And the old man was experiencing a lot of problems. What Lorraine and Ed referred to as a water poltergeist. I don't like the word poltergeist.

There's no such thing. But this demonic spirit tended to use water against this man. And he was a real big guy. I mean, he was over six feet. And he didn't speak that well English, but he was in the other house. And when we said, we're going to go over, he refused to go into the house. This big dude, I'm not going. I'm not going in that house.

So when we did the interview in that house and then we went over to the Focus House, and I noticed the first thing, they had the old asbestos tiling on the ceiling, and they were stained with water all over the place, and it looked like, you know how grapes look? These were round circular water stains, and they looked like grapes. What was happening, the phenomena that he was complaining about

is that the water would form on the ceiling, and he could see it shimmering and at an inopportune time or a time that he wouldn't expect it would just splash him he could be sitting on the couch it would splash him he could walk by it would splash him so in the pantry

was there was a space between the wall and the ceiling and I put my flashlight in there and I looked and there was a layer of dust completely undisturbed. So that meant that the water had to be coming from inside, underneath. But where was it coming from? So you checked directly above the tiles.

I looked right in there. There was no water source coming from above that ceiling. It was coming from below the ceiling. And I don't know how that was happening in a natural manner. but anyway it progressed into physical assaults this man was being physically beaten

and actually he had a very a very close relationship with his grandson and his grandson spent a lot of time with him in that house because of the problems it got so bad that they actually they ran out of the house the grandson

and this old man and it was assaulting the old man as he was running it knocked his hat off the back of the, you know, it hit him in the back of the head, knocked his hat off, he ran it to the house. Windows were exploding, but they weren't exploding inward. They were exploding outward. So there was, you know, that was the first case I went on.

And it was the first time that I, and the only time that I actually witnessed what we can call ghost rods with my own eyes. And what is it ghost rod? It's, um, if, did you see the demon files? I'm familiar with that. I didn't actually see it. There's a, in the, in the war trace case, we got a, um, we got a phenomenon. It's, it looks like a rod.

It's about this long. Um, and I would see these things up at the ceiling area where a lot of the phenomenon was taking place. And they were green and red. And I could see this with my own eyes. You know, this wasn't something that we were seeing. through video. I was seeing this. And I didn't know how rare it was actually because it was my first case. I've never seen that again with my own eyes. There was only one time that I saw

what I call spirit energy with my own eyes, you know, and never again after that. So it was rare. And these raws, they seem like they're material? Well, their energy. It's like a light. You know, like a lightning bug. Sure. It would be something similar to that. Interesting. And when you saw it, did you feel anything? No.

I didn't see. I didn't feel anything, no. You just saw it and you saw it. It was marveling. I was looking up, you know, and I'm like, I'm saying to myself, what the hell is that? And how many would you say there were? I saw maybe they'd show up sporadically, you know, like a lightning bug. It didn't show up.

You'd see them, and then it would go away. Now in demonic literature. in demonology, what is that ascribed to? Is there any theory as to what that is or why it's manifesting in that way? Well, they're energy. So I would have to say that that is a result of the way that energy is manifesting itself. You know, demonic, they don't need energy from the atmosphere to manifest. They can do it of their own accord. You know, the demonic, they don't need energy from the atmosphere to manifest. They can do it of their own accord. Human spirits, on the other hand, they need an energy source. And that's why, you know, the old, when there is a, you have a ghostly manifestation in the

movies, it's a stormy night, that lightning and the thunder. Well, the reason for that is because of the electromagnetic energy in the air and the moisture in the air conducts the electricity, so it makes it easier for the human spirit to, you know, to gather that energy and manifest itself. It needs that source. Now, the demonical use it if it's available because, you know, they'll use the energy, but they don't need it. So you'll see electricity-type manifestations at times, because that's, that's, that's, that's what we are, we're electricity.

Right, like in films, typically, you would see like lights flickering and things like that. That's to be like a trope you would see in, you know, movies of demons and such. Have you seen versions of that? Well, they like to flicker the lights because it messes with people, but... I have a funny story.

I was out in California. We were having a big, I don't know, a media circus, I guess, four deliver us from evil. And, you know, I was out there and I was sitting in a room. It was a large room. There was a screen, a movie screen. And there was about three or four of us in the room, a couple of reporters. And we were sitting there.

We were talking and all of a sudden the lights just dimmed all by themselves into complete darkness. And then the lights went back on. and I looked over to see who was messing with the lights, you know, and there was nobody there. And when I turned back, the reporters, they were like, they were stunned. They were ash and white. They were flipping out because of these lights just dimming and then going back on.

So I asked them, I said, you folks are in here quite often. Did that ever happen before? And they're like, no, it never happened before. So I'm like, okay, don't worry about it. You know, it happens. I was, I spoke with a guy. He's a friend of mine, and he was trying to get possessed. He doesn't believe in it.

He's a full materialist. He says, I don't believe in the supernatural. He's an idiot. Sure. And he said, I'm going to try to get possessed. And so he tried, he did all these weed wars. He said, yeah, nothing happened. He came on my show, and as he was describing this to me,

and it's on camera, I could show you the video afterwards. As we're speaking, the lights behind him, which at this point had never done this before, they don't have this setting on the lights, and it's never happened since, began to flicker. And I was like, that's pretty weird. And he was like, yeah, are you doing this as like a joke? And I was like, no, it's just a weird thing that has never happened before.

So we turned the lights off, turned them back on. And then they never flickered again for the rest of the two hours that we spoke. And I kind of looked at that as saying, like, oh, that's pretty strange, in the exact moment that he was describing his desire to be possessed, all of a sudden this lights flickering. I thought that was a pretty bizarre thing to happen. And yeah, we never spoke about it since, and it just kind of lives on its own on my channel.

But again, one of these experiences is to say that there's a potential electromagnetic frequency that can be disrupted to kind of indicate something. Extremely common. Interesting. So now what happened with this gentleman's house that you were at? When you investigated it, you see the water, there's dust on top of it, he's getting assaulted.

What is the next course of action to cleanse the home? Well, like I said, it was the warrants that handled the case. So I was not privy to, you know, what transpired after I had left. I hope they got to help they needed, you know, I don't know for sure. Right. I mean, that's just the way it was. I mean, you know, I work with the Warrens on cases and I would hear a year later that the case, you know, came to fruition. I did an exism and now Ed Warren would say, Ralph, do an exism.

So I'd do an exism. I see. And then it would be like a year later, I'd hear, oh, that family out there, everything's good. Now, could you explain the difference between a solemn exorcism and a local exorcism? All right. So solemn exism is an exorcism over a person. Local exism is an exorcism in a house. So with this guy's house, that would be a local exorcism.

Now, what was the first solemn exorcism that you saw? Perhaps not the exact first, but maybe one of the early. I don't remember the first one I was at. Mm-hmm. But one of the early ones. If I sat here and I thought about it, but it might take me a while. We're not going to get nowhere.

Yeah, we've got to feed the dogs. I just can't, I just, for the life of me, I cannot remember. I'm trying to put myself back in, because you know that I would be so apprehensive that it wouldn't even be funny. Because in my mind, the exorcisms was from the movie The Exorcist.

Of course. I'm getting ready to pull them down from the ceiling and deal with the vomit and the head spinning, and then it was absolutely nothing like that. But what would you describe it as? If you could give like a specific example from any case. The best way that I can describe a solemn exorcism,

no matter what's going on, because Father Martin, he had two terms, either an intellectual or a dirty. It was either going to be an intellectual exorcism or was going to be a dirty one. They're anticlimactic, it's much, more of a battle of wills than anything else, with the exception of maybe one that's violent. You know, they're different.

Yeah. They're very, very different. And in most of the exisms that I assisted in where they were extremely violent, there was no dialogue. There was very little dialogue. It was all growling and moaning and cursing. and cursing and, you know, vileness. There was no trying to outsmart your opponent. Could you tell us a story from a violent exorcism?

Well, we had an exorcism of an old, of a woman. All right. She had to be about probably 90 pounds, 100 at the most. very tiny little petite woman and we fought with her for two hours in the pew. So what was the context leading up to this?

Who had told you about the case? This was a case that Ed and Lorraine Warren Ed and Lorraine Warren were working on and when I started to investigate cases with them I wound up handling a lot of the cases that they were working on because some of them take a few years to deal with.

You know, they don't just, this doesn't happen. It does, but it doesn't. Right. And she was very violent. So you got a briefing from Ed and Lorraine and you showed up. She was in a church?

This progressed from a, it was an infistence, An infestation case to a possession case that progressed, meaning the problems started to happen in the home. You know, things getting thrown around, things disappearing, the scratches, the smells, the noises, you know, all of the things that come along with the infestation and the oppression cases. And it progressed to the point where the woman actually wound up getting possessed. I almost mentioned the name

and I try not to do that but you know she has passed she passed on and there was about seven exisms for this woman and had you gone to her home before? I was in her home yes okay so is that the first time you met her?

I was sitting I was now this this home was in it was in Connecticut and it was built by midgets. It was a tiny house. No, seriously, it was a tiny house.

And, you know, energy builds up in small spaces. So it was very difficult to be in that house because of the, you know, the atmosphere, the energy. When you walked in, you felt energy. You could feel, it was palpital. You could feel it when you walked into the house. And Ed said to me, actually we were having a class that night and the phone had rang and Lorraine picked with the phone and

she said Ed it's so-and-so and she wants to speak with you and he got on the phone and he was talking and then he got off and he says okay I want Ralph, John, Scott and whoever else he out on the porch So we let. We went out on the porch. He says, we're going over to so-and-so's house. There's problems over there. So we went. Ed tells me, go up in the attic and, you know, stay there for about a half hour, you know, and observe.

So I'm like, all right, so I go into the attic and I sat there for a half hour and nothing took place. But I find out a couple of days. later that the last investigator that was up in that attic had a picture frame thrown at him, you know, and I wish Ed would have advised me that fact, you know, because I was in dark. Ed liked to conduct investigations in dark, and I don't like doing that. I want to see what the hell is going on. I want to be in darkness.

I want to be able to see. And you were alone in the attic. Yeah, I was there for about a half hour, and then I went downstairs, and Then, you know, we ended the investigation. And when you saw the woman for the first time, she was friendly, amicable. Yeah, dogs in the house, husband, daughter, very nice people. Did they seem concerned about what was happening? Oh, yeah.

And so they were a little freaked out. Oh, yeah. Okay, but nothing within them that you seen. Well, no, not at this point. This was still, you know, we were talking about at least an oppression at this particular point. Got it. But for her exorcism, she got violent and we fought for about two hours with her, you know, in that pew. So how does it progress?

How do you go from a home that, you know, has some oppression to then violence? Like, what are the next steps? Oh, well, you know, she got possessed. So I'm skipping from the house to the solemn exorcism. And how does she get possessed? It broke her will down enough to actually possess her. And does she invite the spirit into her? Oh, she didn't invite it.

No. No. She didn't want this. She couldn't resist it. She could do nothing to stop it from happening. I don't know why. We don't know the answers. God allows it.

That's the only reason why we know is God allows it. And, you know, when I did the demon files, a couple of times we would ask questions to the spirits. in the location is what, what gives you the authority to attack as family? And we would hear because I'm allowed. You know, it's something that I knew that God allows it to happen, and it doesn't happen unless he allows it. So when I hear, when I hear this spirit telling me, well, I'm doing this because I'm allowed to do it,

that I understand that God has given this spirit, permission to do what it's doing. Now, are you hearing that audibly, or is it just something that comes into your mind? Usually with our equipment, we're hearing it through recordings. You're hearing it through recordings? Well, we're using recordings, uh, uh, uh, recordings, devices. So you have recordings of these audio transmissions saying, I'm allowed. Yeah.

It was on the show, the demon files. Wow. I mean, that's remarkable. So when we went through our evidence and, you know, my, team would show me, all right, listen to this. And I'm here and, well, it's because I'm allowed. Or who gave you the authority to attack his family? Woody, the father. It's given me the name of the father. And then I later find out that he made a deal with whoever, according to his words. So when you say he made a deal, did he explain what that deal was?

Well, yeah, his daughter was in the hospital dying. And he was. He made a deal with what he said. I made a deal with whatever to heal her. So now the kid was healed. Now it's coming for him. And they lied to me and I couldn't help them. So the house has this oppression and then it builds up to more violence within the home. Well, the demonic will start to act violently.

they'll start throwing objects around, physical assaults. You don't get that in the infestation stage. It's very subtle. It's very minor the things that happen, and it progresses. Depending on a lot of factors, if it's a low-level demon, it takes time for it to progress to the next stage. If it's a devil, it can progress very, very rapidly. Now, we believe that some of the people or some of the demons that possessed this woman were devils.

They were powerful demons. And that's why it took such a long time to free her. And there's a hierarchy of demons. Yes. And some will be lower level with less ability. Well, there are nine choirs of angelic spirits. And depending on where they were within those choirs in, in the three hierarchies,

depends on how much power they have. You know, it's in their nature. They're not like us. Their being is their nature. You know, our nature is to be human. Their nature is totally different.

Their nature is what they are. Now, did you go back to the house prior to the violent point. Did you return back to the home and see anything? No, I never went back to that house after the first time I was there. That was the only time I went there.

It had already progressed to a full-blown possession, genuine possession case. So whatever dealings we were having were going to be at the church, unless Bishop McKenna decided we need to be back at the house, which he's done. Right.

So for this case, you get a call one day and they say, hey, we're going to go to the church, we're going to perform this exorcism. And who was it that called you? Well, I can get a call from one of Ed and Lorraine's investigators or I get a call from one of the nuns from Bishop McKenna. So now you're prepared to go into this church to perform ostensibly of some type of violent exorcism.

I'm assuming they told you at this point that there was some degree of severity. Well, nobody tells you anything. You just go and you deal whatever you deal with. And how do you prepare to go into a church to do an exorcism like this? What is the personal preparation that you take? What, me personally?

Yeah. Well, when it's a solemn exism, the first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to make sure I'm in a state of grace, meaning I'm hitting the confessional. And I was in a confessional once a week back in those days, you know? And the next thing I do is I would perform the black fast,

meaning I would need at least three days before, to prepare myself. And I would do the black fast. And what is the black fast? Well, the black fast is recommended in the Roman ritual for the priest to perform this fast before an solemn exism. And it's one meal a day for three days. And there's praying a lot of, lots of praying in between.

But it's one meal a day. And then you, you know, you get to the church and you prepare the person for what's, you know, what's to come. You know, put them in a straitjacket or we're going to put them in soft restraints, you know. And so what time of day is this that you're going to the church? It's in the morning. Okay. So you arrive at the church in the morning and who is with the woman? Her family would bring her, you know.

Sometimes they show up by themselves. We didn't like that. You know, we didn't like that if they come by themselves. We usually like somebody to drive them because we don't know what kind of condition they're going to be in at the end. You know, that woman that we were talking about ended up in a hospital after one exorcism. So, you know, these things, they happen. She suffered a broken rib. It happened, these things.

The violence was extremely. extreme, you know, and you cannot overcome violence softly. You have to use violence in return. So she suffered a broken rib. Everything is videotaped. Were you at that one? I was at that one, yeah. Okay.

Everything is videotaped. And so these multiple exorcisms all happened in the church. Yeah. I see. And so when you go there, it's the family. They bring her. Sometimes it's a family. And then is she.

ever coming on her own volition? Is she coming herself or is she resistant? Sometimes they do. We don't like that. We don't want somebody that is, we feel is possessed and we're going to perform an exism on them. We don't want them to come to the church by themselves. In the same vein, I don't want to drive them to the church in my car either. Right. You know, I don't want a possessed person behind me or next to me as I'm operating a vehicle on the way to an exorcism. Try to avoid that. So we prefer they have some kind of support system. It doesn't always work out that way, you know, but it is what it is. So then at the church, there's the exorcist and is a priest. Yeah. And the possessed woman, her family, was there anyone else that was there?

Their assistance. I see. So the exorcist assistance. It could be one of us, or there could be eight of us. depending on the circumstance. Depending on who's available and what the circumstances are. And now how does it begin? How does this start the nature of the exorcism in this specific case? Well, in this particular case,

we had no restraints. We had no soft restraints and we had no stray jacket. I procured them. Don't ask me how, but I put them because we needed them. Right.

You know, she's in the church. She sits in the first pew. And she might go to confession beforehand. You know, one of the assistants might be in the confessional beforehand. I never recommended that because what I don't want is my fresh sins in that priest's head when that demon is going to be probing him to see what information he can get. so I don't want that. Because they might know your weaknesses.

Well, they might find out what the sins I just confessed are. When I go to another priest outside, there's no way that devil is going to know the sins that I just been forgiven for. But if they're fresh in that priest's mind, he might somehow grab onto them. And what's the concern if they know your sins? They can use that against you. Oh, yeah, they're going to blurt it out, you know. Or they'll hone in on me and use it against me.

The possessed person could blurt it out. Oh, wow. And you've seen that have before. Something that you said in confidence is now being blurted out by someone that would not know. No, I've never witnessed that, but I know that it's, it is certainly possible. But I've seen some assistants have overstepped their boundaries

in their zeal, you know, to help the person and the demon let them know that they made a mistake. I see. You know, I've seen that. Right. And it was in words, actually. Wow. So she's sitting at the beginning of this pew,

and does it begin with a specific type of liturgy or some type of specific prayer? Yeah, the bishop would start the litany of the saints. And that's with his back facing the altar. Now that the Eucharist in the tabernacle is removed prior to anybody getting into the church. And what's the reason for that? Well, we don't want it, you know,

We don't want any sacrilege's in front of the Holy Eucharist. I see. So we put it in the back. So the Euras would not be used as a tool in some capacity? It can be and it has been. Okay. But in certain circumstances and it's never exposed, it's covered. In a monstrance.

In a monstrance. It's covered. So there could be no blasphemies directly at the Eucharist. Because someone could try to spit on it or try to attack it. Well, it's in a monstanceance. It's covered. You're not going to get at it. but they could be verbal and, you know, we don't even want that.

I see. So the Eucharist is removed. Liturgy of the Saints begins. And then what does the woman do at that point? I mean, each exorcism is different, but after the litany of the Saints, then the exorcists will come down and stand in front of the possessed and start the Roman ritual. And that's usually the St. Michael Prayer. You start with the St. Michael Prayer.

Hail Marys, we'll throw some Hail Marys in there. They could be said throughout the exism. You know, the exorcist can stop right then and there. We're going to pray Hail Marys. We prayed a whole rosary one time. 15 decades in that church during an exorcism. So it depends on the exorcist himself, what he feels he wants to do and how he wants to proceed.

Once the Roman ritual is completed, it's in its entirety from beginning to end, then the priest can go back into certain parts of the Roman ritual if he observes a reaction that he might get from the demon during a certain part of the ritual, he'll go back and he'll repeat it. I see it. And during the exism, the stole is applied around the head of the person. There are relics that are applied to the person, Holy Water, blessed oil is put on the person throughout the exism, depending on how the exis feels he's

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So now in this case, at what point did the woman start to get violent? we were into the exorcism for a good bit and then the violence starts you know um if i remember correctly the the the first sign of violence was on herself she tried to pull her own hair out um tearing out her flesh trying to so we would have to grab her hand to stop her from tearing of herself and that would turn into her trying to pull the hand up to bite you know by the hand that was restraining her or trying to get at uh this flesh with her with her nails you know trying to twist around so the investigator is now moving and trying to negotiate you in trying to stop getting assaulted and whatever at the same time protecting the woman from assaulting herself

It's a little twisted, you know, if the person that's trying to assault you, you're trying to prevent from assaulting herself. It's a little, you know, it's not natural. Right. But that's, you know, and that was about two hours worth of that fight with her. And that was she saying anything? Is there any type of auditory moment? And there's a lot of yelling, laughing, mocking, you know, a lot of gibberish, a lot of crap. they pull this kind of stuff

it's you look at them and they behave in a manner that is very childish you know the behavior is very childish and they do that a lot it's a psychological ploy is to try to

there's no demons here there's not this person's nuts you know no demon will behave like this, you know, those kinds of ploys. And it's a good exorcist that nips that in the bud. That's the pretense. Once that pretense is destroyed, then there's no more of that.

I see. Now, a skeptic might listen and say, oh, perhaps this woman has, you know, a mental health disorder. They might have some type of, you know, bipolar schizophrenia where they're hearing things and they're acting a way that's abnormal. How can an exorcist discern whether someone is having a mental episode or a proper possession? Well, they're going to go through an extensive psychiatric background, along with a medical background that's required.

There's some type of board certified psychologist or something. Well, we're going to check to see if there's any kind of mental illness or history and family. You know, we're going to look into these things. The thing is that a person who is mentally ill, they don't know they're mentally ill. And they're mentally ill all the time. The person who's possessed goes through periods of normalcy. I mean, and the demon might be present 24 hours a day. It might not be present 24 hours a day.

The possession is not 24 hours a day. There are periods of normalcy within this. The person knows that there's something wrong. They might not understand it, but they know that there's something wrong. I see. So in the periods of normalcy, they could reflect on the moments of body. They're looking for help. It's wrong with me.

Mr. Sauchy, you're not going to believe me, but that kind of stuff. And then there are other people that go on to possession and they black out for hours, sometimes days. They don't remember what they've done. So we're relying on the family members, the people around them. What was going on? Well, you know, they weren't acting. like, you know, Frank was not acting like Frank.

Frank was acting like a Babylon idiot, like a fool. Right. These kinds of things. Now, you're saying that the woman is laughing. She's kind of yelling. She's convulsing, trying to fight, you know, the people restraining her. Have you ever seen moments where the possessed would say things that are in other languages or maybe say things that seem like a language that is, you've never heard before?

Yeah. And we take great pains to try to track down the origins of these languages. We would use, you know, linguistics professors to listen to these, you know, the tapes that we have to try and give us some kind of an idea on what we're listening to. There was one, we don't know what the language was, and we believe that it was one of these Afro-Caribbean, curses put on this particular person. And this, this, this voice or wording that was coming from her, we don't know what language it was. Like I said, we would look into it.

But I'd even go to the, to the deli with the Indian guys and say, hey, listen to this. Tell me if you recognize what this is, you know? Interesting. And is it ever sound like not their voice? sometimes it would be different it would be a different octave it happens but not a whole lot

because it's still ultimately possessing their body it's their vocal cords it wouldn't be it's not beneficial to them to utilize their own vocal cords or they utilize their own voice even though they don't have a voice box they do it sometimes sometimes they'll

you know they'll growl there's guttural growl coming from these people you know it's usually when the priest is

putting a relic on them or using holy water a sacramental the reaction like Bishop McKenna would hold a crucifix up in front of this woman

and say it is Christ crucified that command you and the demon would laugh and then the bishop would put the relic of the true cross on the breastplate and that laughter would turn into growling or moaning or yelling. You know, so it's you're fluctuating one minute from laughing to the next minute to growling

or yelling or cursing or some abnormal crap. Right. Now, as a police officer in New York City, you've had no shortage of restraints. I'm sure you've had to restrain people of all different sizes. And I'm sure perhaps had to restrain a 90-pound woman before.

Did you feel like this woman you were restraining had a strength beyond what you had experienced in the past? Well, it was definitely a strength that she shouldn't have had. That's for sure. But it was different. when I'm a strain and a bad guy

I'm hitting tearing, ripping, punching, kicking over here I'm not doing any of that I'm trying to I'm trying to control this person with the least amount of force that I could possibly use

I don't want to break any this lady's bones I really don't want to do that in the same vein I don't want to get punched in the face either you know what I mean? but so you try to balance it. But she had strength that she should not have had.

And now how long does this specific exorcism go on for and how does it end? This particular one was about two hours. And I was, I was assisted at another one of her exorcisms that was about an hour and a half around that time. And there were only three of us during that exism. So I spent that whole time crouched on the pew holding her wrist with both my hands to keep her arm as immobilized as possible, you know, all the while trying to stay away from her, lunging at me, trying to bite me. Wow. And I had to put all my weight on that to keep her arm immobile.

And then how does it end? Does the bishop stops? Okay. And the demon retreats, they leave. As soon as we're done, they leave. They don't want to be there. They have to be there. And when they don't have to be there, they're no longer there.

They go. And then this woman specifically came back to her kindness at mind? It was not a successful one. Those, you know, the people usually tell us, it's gone. You know, they'll tell us it's gone. I don't feel it anymore. It's not there. you know, they know.

And other people, it's just we have no idea. Hmm. So now what ended up happening with this woman? She had seven exorcisms, and how does her story? Yeah, eventually she was freed. Oh, really? Were you at the exorcisms where she was freed? No, I wasn't at her final exorcisms, no.

Wow. And what did the husband think of all this, knowing that he had sort of made this deal? Did he communicate anything? Did he feel guilt? A husband? Mm-hmm. Oh, he was badass.

What do you mean? Well, when the news found out about this, they were camping out on her lawns. So he came out with a shotgun and put a couple of rounds in the air and chased him off of his property. Oh, wow. So, yeah. Wow. He just unfortunately wasn't prepared to deal with demons. Right.

And I guess that is the concern if you sort of invoke anything to help you, you know, broadly. speaking, if you're saying, is anything listening, you know, help me with the specific issue that I'm having. You can invite negative spirits or demons into your life. Well, I couldn't understand, and I did question them. I, you know, I didn't have a really good rapport with this gentleman that you're referring to because of their lying to me, you know, it wasn't exactly the way I wanted to walk away from that case with those little kids in it. But I asked them, what the, wouldn't you pray to God? He says, prayed to anything that was out there. That was his response.

Well, there was something out there, and it hurt him. Hmm. And his case didn't come to fruition. He still has his problem. I didn't perform an exorcism in his house. So did you know this to be a factor? Are you presuming that he still has an issue? Well, I know it.

Oh, really? I know it. And so in the home, there's still problems. Yeah. Of course. Manifesting is... It's going to go away by itself. And he didn't want to have some type of extracism for him.

No, he lied. They lied to me, so I didn't proceed. And do you know what happened to them as of today? Do you know what they're... Wow. They're angry with me. Oh, really? Oh, wow.

As a matter of fact, I got a phone call from Dr. Phil's producer one day. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we got contacted by these people. I said, I'll come on your show. I said, but I want the other two families to come on also. Not just them. Let's have them all on, you know? The whole family.

Everybody. You know, I did three cases for Destination America. I said, let's have the other two families on. I helped them. You know, why are you just going to have the family that, you know, we didn't get along, have everybody on? I see. But there was no, we weren't going to.

continue with the demon files and I knew it at this point. So I was, I said, we're done. I'm not given the, this family anymore my time. If we were to continue with the show, I would have said, Dr. Phil book it. I would have been on his show with Bell's on. You know, um, there would have been great marketing for the show, you know, and I would have done it. But to go on a show to talk with these knuckleheads, there's, there's no upside. Right. What was the, uh, the, uh, the other case or the other two cases that were more successful where it worked out with the demon file specifically. Can you take us through the beats of some of the other cases? Well, you have the War Trace Tennessee case. I just talked to Cindy the other day.

And what happened in that case? Well, there was some, there were situations that I'm not going to go into. Sure. All right. People have to understand that there is no magic wand that gets these demons away from you. It takes faith and it takes, it takes a relationship with God in order to do that. And if there's a problem, God allowed it, for whatever reasons. And if you receive help for it, then you have to take responsibility for your life and you really need to change things. And you need to be responsible enough to keep these things away from you now. Because in scripture it says that when a demon is cast out,

it'll roam the earth and then it'll go back to its home to find it all swept and clean. And this time it'll come back with seven more powerful than itself. basically what that is referring to you know demonic possession but it pertains to homes also meaning that if a demonic spirit is cast out and you don't change your lifestyle around then it's going to come back and it's going to come back worse on you so when people don't do this their problems continue it's like rehab you know you might get clean from a drug but if you don't live a life of sobriety, you can become addicted again.

That's right. I see. That's right. And meaning, all you do is you go hang out with people who are using that drug again. Right. And chances are you're going to wind up using it again. So you come out, you go somewhere else, you know, and you live your life there. And chances are you won't have that habit.

It's a great analogy. So what can you share from the Tennessee case? What did you hear prior to and when you showed up what was happening? Well, the Tennessee case was it had a history. There was a lot of negativity in that house. There's also a word that one of Al Capone's gang own the house because there was a train that went right in front of the house. So it was great for bootlegging. I see it.

There might have been a couple of hits, mob hits in the house. There was a couple of domestic violent murders in the house. There was history of drug use. A lot of bad stuff. And the house was located in a very, very bad spot as far as electromagnetic energy is concerned. You had power lines. You had a stream. And you had railroad tracks.

And the house is right in the center of it. All of those things conduct electricity. So you had a swirl of electricity. around this property, which gives it the prime, you know, um, situation for spirit activity. There is a lot of human spirit activity in this house, but there was a lot of demonic spirit in it also. And, um,

it was a fascinating situation with the family that moved into it. Uh, the daughter, the young daughter Lily, um, she has ability, I think, believe she was 11 years old, she has ability to see spirits. And she told her family, there's spirits here, she called shadow people. And what did she see? Do you? She saw shadows.

I see. And they didn't believe her. You know, and they moved in, and then things started to happen to the family, and then they did believe her. You know, they were starting to get scratched and pushed around. Things were moving. If I remember all the things happening in that house, growling in her ear, that happened while we were there, actually. She went outside and this thing growled in her ear.

You know, I told her don't go outside. Stay in the house here. You know, I don't want to, you know, don't go anywhere by yourself. and I did an exism in the house and that we got a lot of evidence we got a lot of voice

a lot of I don't use those things that these paranormal investigators use like these REM pods and electronic equipment I only used a tape recorder and a video camera, that's it. I never used any other stuff. But I got guys on my team that brought these instruments in, and I utilized them for the show.

And they worked pretty good as far as I'm concerned. We picked up a lot of evidence, a lot of EVPs that were Class A direct, you know, to a question, very, very consistent with the history of the house. So it was a very good investigation. Do you have a specific example? What was something that was asked that then was answered? Well, there was, we had heard that somebody had gone to that railroad track and that either hung themselves or jumped off the trestle.

So we went to the railroad track and we started to, we started to pose some questions and the name that we got was Eddie who jumped who killed themselves on the railroad track Eddie we did this about three or four times and got three or four eddies that that doesn't happen you know this is a

this is a receiver that's being you know being manipulated at a high rate of speed. So the frequencies are going very rapidly and these spirits are able to utilize the energy from the frequency to speak through it. I don't know how this stuff works. Like I said, I don't use this stuff so I didn't know. And Eddie, so we go back, got some information on the about the porch area that somebody might have died on the porch. And that's when I got the demon.

It said it was a demon. Told me right out, demon, and I'm coming. That's what it said. So when we went in the house and we asked Cindy, did anybody ever commit suicide by the, you know, on the train tracks? She says, oh yeah, that was Eddie.

He walked through the, through the, he worked in the barn. He came from the barn over the lawn onto the train tracks and he jumped off. Hmm. All right. So, you know, we got a Class A EVP. Eddie, why do we get that as many times as we did? Now, Cindy was the woman living in the house?

She owned the house, yes. I see. Hmm. So now what happened in the house and how did it, how were the demons expelled from the, from the domicile? Well, I believe there was at least one demon in that house. I can't be 100% sure, but I believe there was one demon. And I did an exism in the house. house you know um from the basement i started in the basement and went up to the attic that's where i

believe this demon entered through the attic and what makes you think it came through the attic um that the girl lily that was her bedroom and she was the focal person and and I just believe that this thing entered the house through the attic. I don't know how I feel that, but that's what I believed. It came in through the attic upstairs. Now, you explained the process of doing a solemn exorcism. What is the process for a local exorcism? Well, I would use sacramentals.

I would have blessed incense. I have my holy water and my blessed salt. and I would have the incense burned throughout the whole entire house. You know, I had plenty of thoroughbils senses, and they give them all to my investigators, and they would go and put them in all the rooms. Is there a specific scent or a specific incense that? I use frankincense and mirts, high church incense.

It's the same incense that the church uses in our rituals. Of course. I would burn that and I would leave that for a while. I'd probably have the rosary playing in the background on a tape. And I would just let that sit. A lot of times we would just go outside and hang out and let the incense filter through the house. And then I'd come in and I would get my relic of the true cross

and I would start the Pope leader of 13th prayer. We have a modified version of that prayer. And then, and I would pray that. What I normally do is I would have investigators on every floor, if it's a multi, you know, floor dwelling. And I'd have one team praying the exes and prayers on the second floor, another one in the attic, one in the basement, if I had enough people, you know, and I'd have it simultaneously.

but if I was the only one doing the ritual, I would start in the location that I would feel was opposite the portal and drive everything towards that. Sometimes I feel a portal is in the basement. And go the other way. Yeah, and I'd start in the attic and go down. Now, in doing local exorcisms on a home, does anything happen during the exorcism?

Like in the way that a woman, this specific case, this woman was growling, she was writhing. Does the house do anything strange? Does anything happen in the home that is bizarre? or unusual? Yeah, sometimes I'll get something, you know, knocked, knocked around, you know, an object. Sometimes I'll hear a noise, a bang.

It's all minor. It's all low-level stuff. You got to understand something. A house, an infestation of a house, is like universal studios compared to a solemn exorcism. It's like an amusing part. ride. I see. They're totally different. That's why laymen are not supposed to do solemn exorcisms. I see. But a local exorcism is, would you say the demons are less powerful?

Well, it's different. I wouldn't say they're less powerful. It's just different. You know, you're dealing with them on a different level. You know, we're dealing with a house when you're really look at it. Right. Compared to, are you? Are you? human being. I see. So in this case, no human actually got possessed. It was just the home. It was just the home. I see. There were no possessions in any of these cases. Now, in your book, you detail a case where a woman was interfacing with a ghost that she would see. This is in the first chapter. The woman that she would see in the mirror, I believe her name was Virginia. Can you explain that case specifically? And I think it's important to go through that

to kind of illustrate, I guess, how things can seem benign or perhaps, you know, almost charming in a way and then lead to more, I guess, evil behavior. So what was this case and how did this possession go from something, almost Hollywood-esque into something more evil? Well, it's the typical con man con game, you know, how we spoke before about how some cycle pairs can appear very charming. You know, it's, it's, it's the game. It's how they, it's how they operate. Demonic have the same type of thing.

They have an M.O. They operate in a certain manner. I'm a big fan of the FBI's profiling, you know, criminal profiling. I found it fascinating. And, you know, I was able to apply it to the demonic. They have a nature. So you have a nature of some demonic, what I consider the brutes. They're attacking in an animalistic way.

There's no conversation. It's all violence. It seems meaningless, actually. Then you have the intellect or the intellectuals. Like the way Father Martin, it's, designated exisms, the intellectual exism versus the dirty, you can bet that you're dealing with the beast in the dirty ones, and you're dealing more with the intellectuals when you're having a conversation.

I see. Which makes the battle more a battle of wills. It's not a physical battle. just like the battle between St. Michael, the Archangel, and the good angels against Lucifer and the rebellious angels was not a physical battle. It was a battle of wills. They're not physical beings.

How can you have a physical battle if there's, they're not physical? So you apply that same, you know, that same theory to the exism is a battle of wills. So this specific case with this Virginia ghost, This was a con man. The next one will be the con man. That's how they operate.

They operate on the con. And that's exactly what we were dealing with here. So take us through the whole story. What does this woman start seeing? Well, I mean, it's incredible. This woman, she goes and she lays down. She wasn't feeling well. She lays down and sees an apparition from the waist up,

which is the first tip off for me, you know, and starts to convert. with it, the rest of the family thinks that she's alone, she's cracking. She's talking to somebody that's not there. She calls her husband into the house and into the bedroom and she's like, don't you see her and he's like, I don't see anybody. And he's an Italian guy, you know, he's like, what? You can't matter.

What are you? What are you? What are you? Stunard? So it just progressed to physical, you know, the physical aspect. of the objects moving around the house to the physical assaults of their own daughter. And what is this being saying to the woman?

What are they talking about? Well, she's communicating with it, which is the first thing you're not supposed to do is communicate with it. You know what happens when you communicate, right? We discussed that in the Garden of Eden. Right. What did Eve do?

She communicated with the spirit. Well, she communicated with it. That's the first mistake. And it spins a tail. It's taking elements of her life and spinning this tail to gain the empathy that it needs to ingratiate itself with her in the ultimate goal of possessing her. So this lady. So the woman's seeing what she thinks is a ghost. And the ghost is telling her, oh.

I died here and I need help for my parents and is looking for some type of vindication in her death or something to that effect. Yeah, she's claiming she was a bride and she was murdered and her fiancee was found guilty of the crime wrongfully and he was in prison. And, you know, it was a whole story that was built around this to draw this woman and this family in because that's exactly what it did. It got everybody but the husband involved. He was the only one that it could see because, you know, it was sort of strange because the, there was extended family living in this house

at this time. And the family upstairs got involved in it also. That's where I believe this whole thing originated from was from upstairs because of what I experienced. house that, you know, in that apartment upstairs. And what did you experience? You go over there, you hear this story, this woman's conversing with this ghost, and then what happens in your experience?

Well, I had gone upstairs because I normally walk around the houses when I, you know, I'm involved in investigating cases. And it was an empty apartment. The people had moved out. and as soon as I walked in, the doorknob started to rattle. I can hear it. I can hear the doorknob,

and there's nobody in this apartment. So, you know, I looked around. It was one room that was painted all black. This guy was practicing saintness from what I found out later on. When I asked the family about them, you know, about the people that lived upstairs, they told me,

that he was a little strange, you know. So, you know, we realized that it might have been the draw because we had another possible explanation. One of the young kids played with a Ouija board, you know, at a party. So it created a little argument between the sisters, you know, You can't blame her because she was being physically assaulted the way she was, you know, possible incubus attack and all of this very, very nasty stuff. You know, it was one of the most extreme cases of oppression that I've investigated was that case.

You know, with the amount of physical assault that she went through, that was a very bad one. And this would happen in the night, she would wake up to... Happen all the time, even in the daytime. Really? Yeah, it starts out usually at night. And then it's, once it hits the oppression stage, it's happening during the day and broad daylight, you know, outside the house. What's up, guys?

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cell phone and also i i'm pretty sure this is a paid advertisement i think i have to say that anyway let's get back to the show there was a case that the warrants worked on um it was a uh it was a demonic oppression case. And the guy went out trying to start his car wouldn't start so they had the car towed

to the garage and the mechanic called him and said are you pulling some kind of joke on me because all of the internal parts to your engine

have been disconnected. So I had to take the whole engine apart to find out what the hell was wrong with it and he wound up finding that parts inside the engine were disconnected.

Deeply embedded in the engine. What's that? Deeply embedded inside the engine. Some junkie didn't come and disconnected. No. Hmm. He said, are you pulling a joke on me? Because it was obviously removed.

Parts inside the car, the engine are no longer connected. To where they're supposed to be connected. It wasn't chewed through by a rat or a squirrel or something like this. It was just disconnected by hand. You know those pistons that go up and down? Yeah.

They were all disconnected. Hmm. I know Rodin was going to do that. Right. Strange. And with this Virginia case, the woman is seeing the ghost and it ultimately invites the ghost to, I guess, into her in some capacity. Is that fair to say?

Through communication, it was entering her without permission. It's called transient possession. And she fought against that. She would tell it, don't enter me. you could talk to me. I can relay the message, but it was trying to get in. It was trying to get that permission.

So it was entering. She was pushing it out. And eventually, it would have taken her over. Hmm. And what? If we didn't intervene. And what ended up happening in this case?

What was the intervention like? Well, we had gone over to that case at the request of one of the exorcists that we knew. I didn't work with him. He was a diocesan exorcist. They were rare. But we went over and at his request and we were not prepared to do anything for the family, just an interview. She came out of possession while we were there. So we helped her out. We, uh, we didn't quite do what was considered an exism, but we were able to free her from the grasp of this thing with the relics. We had relics

as a true cross, both Joe and I. So we utilized them for that. Very powerful relic. We were able to help her out there. Now when you say she came under possession, what did that look like. You guys were all just sitting and talking. No, we were downstairs in the basement. And we were downstairs. We were praying because I had a problem earlier in that basement. And one of the, I think it was the son-in-law came down and said she's having a problem. So we went upstairs and she was stiff. You know, she was stiff and she was stammering, you know, like stuttering and she was trying to tell us to go. And I just put my relic right on the top of her head.

And Joe put the relic on her breastplate. We commanded it in the name of Jesus to leave. And eventually she came around and she was okay. She didn't remember what happened, but she was all right. And, you know, we continued and then we left and the priest never went. he never went we were so angry with him you know

so we went back I took my whole team there this next time and we were able to to cast it out and it stayed out this time we did it right you know and I never heard from them again

hmm and so this woman just by interfacing with this ghost that she thought she was helping or that she wanted to you know be charitable to then was able to take control. Yeah, but you see, the thing is that it wanted to possess her, but it assaulted the hell out of her daughter.

So people would say, oh, it wants the daughter. No, it wants the mother. And that's the weak one. That's how it broke down the mother's will, is to assault the daughter. What's the best way to get at a parent? There's no better way to get even with a parent than to do something to their child.

It might get you killed, but that's the best way to get at somebody is through their kids. So what are some other ways that a home can get some type of demonic being? Obviously crimes or murders or seances or things like that. What are other examples? No, you pretty much covered them all. The evil acts. There needs to be a draw.

There needs to be an invitation. It could be the land. something could have been done on the land, you know, and it opened the portal. And then here we come along and we build, you know, all of these nice houses and people move in. And now crap's happening. You know, like the movie The Paltkegeist. Sure. Do you know where the real case to the Paltkegeist is?

It's in New York. It's in Seaford, New York. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. a few short miles away from the Amityville house. Hmm. A lot of bad stuff going on over in that area. Yeah.

And what do you think it is? Is it related to the land? A lot of Satanism. Hmm. So it's the past. In the past, yeah. In the past, yeah. Yeah, Puritans.

Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, interesting. So the Puritans were practicing Satanism. I believe they were playing with a lot of stuff, the Puritans. Hmm. And is that connected to like the... And you also had a lot of Indian,

large Indian. population in that area. Conjuring. Massapequa Indians, the Amityville Indians, you know, the where the Amityville houses. There's all, you know, theory that that house in Amityville was built on a, now Indians, they didn't bury their dead, they burned them. But they would take their criminally insane and they would chain them the trees and they

would let them starve to death. And they would usually do this in the place where they burnt those bodies. So we're thinking that the Amityville House was a built over an Indian ritual site. That's one of the theories. There's a lot of theories about the Amityville House. And in these movies, typically it's obviously dramatized, right? like Poultergeist and, you know, Amityville, the Exorcist, things like that.

And one of the things they always like to show is these like supernatural events that are beyond comprehension, a person climbing walls or, you know, their head spinning, things like that you'd mentioned before. Have you ever seen versions of that, like someone, you know, climbing something or defying gravity in some way?

It's more subtle than that. No, I never seen, never witnessed it, no. Is there other examples of that that you find... Not people, objects, but not... not people. And are there examples that are credible within demonic literature of people doing that, climbing walls? Yeah, I mean, you know, you heard of this guy, Zach Beggins, right?

Well, he's the ghost adventure guy. He bought a house. I don't know where it was. Chicago, Minnesota, I don't know where it is. It's called a demon house. to make a long story short it was a young boy I believe

they brought him to the hospital and he crawled up the wall in front of cops and doctors so yeah it happens and it is recent we're not talking about something that happened you know back in the 18th century

this is a recent 21st century case. He was exercised, you know, it was unfortunate for the, in the hospitals, there's usually a priest assigned to the hospital.

Well, when this kid walked up the wall, they went and they called the priest. And he happened to be the priest on duty, and he happened to be the priest that got the exorcist, the bid to do the exorcism. I always, I marvel at that

because you know the original exism case? Do you know the movie The Exorcist? Sure. The original case was a Father Bowden, a Jesuit, was asked to evaluate this little boy. And what he came upon was that he was genuinely possessed. And when he told the bishop, the bishop said to him, okay, good, when do you start? And the father said, start what? He goes, the exism, you got it.

Oh, wow. That was it, man. He just happened to be there. That's, you know, that's God's providence, but I marvel at that. It could have been anybody else, but he drew it, and he got it. And now he has to deal with it. And that's just incredible to me. So now the kid going up the wall in the hospital, the doctors, non-religious, potentially, saw this happen.

Yes. And they documented and reported this to police. to law enforcement. And so that's on the record from these doctors that maybe have no spiritual basis that saw this thing. Interesting. Do you know if anything came with those doctors,

if it changed their perspective? I mean, certainly seeing some like that might invoke some type of religiosity. You know, they're really reluctant to announce it a miracle. They really are. They don't like doing it. Some of them have,

you know, they, they recognize it. They have a religious, you know, a vein to them. So they'll say, there's got to be a miracle. It can't be anything else. I see. You know, and I've witnessed a few. Witnessed a few of what? Miracles.

I'm not going to go into it. But, you know, I had a pretty strange coincidence or a happening. In August, I had a heart attack. I went to the hospital. They put me in the hospital. I had to get a heart catheterization, but the doctor was backed up, and I had a wait in that hospital for a few days.

So I'm laying in this hospital bed, and doctor walks in. He had some kind of a European accent. I don't know if he was Polish or if he was Russian. Mm-hmm. He walks in and I notice he has a miraculous metal around his neck, but it's on the outside of his shirt. Nobody wears a miraculous metal on the outside of his shirt.

So I said, hey, Doc, the miraculous medal, he says, ah, I see you got your scapula. I had my scapule, you know. He says to me, no blockage, no stent, you'll be fine. And he walked out. So I'm laying there and I'm like, yeah, well, how the hell is he know that? He didn't even touch me.

How does he know? You know, I'm getting nervous. They're going to put a camera in my heart. I'm not happy about this, you know. And I don't like doctors anyway. Some lay in there. He comes in the next day, a Sunday, the day before the procedure. He looks in and he goes, no blockage, no stent.

You're fine. And he walks out. And, you know, I'm just. Well, no blockage, no stent, and I'm still here. So, you know, how he knew that, what doctor does that? He diagnosed me. He gave me a clean bill of health without even looking at me. Strange.

I don't know how many doctors that are going to do that. No, I've never heard of that. That's interesting. You know, so these things, they happen. Yeah. Now, in regards to demonology, I've heard that knowing and invoking the name of a specific demon can be helpful for casting it out. Is this the case?

Have you worked on cases where you had to learn the name of the demon? Well, we don't invoke it. That's number one. The reason why we want to know the name of the demon, well, there's two reasons. One is because usually the name reveals the nature. Once we know the nature, we might have a piece to the puzzle. a lot we need to casting it out. And number two is it answers to that name. So now we're not exercising every demon ever created. We're exercising you. You know what I mean? You. Now you answer to this.

That's why they don't like giving their names. And how do you learn the name of a demon? Well, they give it to us. And you have to coax it from them? Beat it out of them. Oh, really? it. Interesting. They don't give it up easy. And have you heard names you've never heard before and then you've researched it and there's a... No, I don't do that. I am not interested in the names of demons. I don't want to hear them. Don't give me their name. I get people that tell me I know the demon's name. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it. I'm not casting it out. When I'm going to cast it out, then I'm going to ask you what its name is. But, because, because, Before then, if I'm sitting here in this chair, I don't want to know its name.

And what is the concern from knowing the name? Well, I don't want to draw it to me. Right. You know, there's no need for it. What's the benefit? Right. You know what I mean? It just potentially opens you up.

There's a risk. Yeah, it's, it just gives it the, you know, the ability to look at me now and want to mess with me. And I really don't want it to mess with me. Mm-hmm. Now, kids oftentimes are dumb, as I know, very personally. A lot of adults that are dumb, too. Yeah, but kids typically, you know, will do sort of things kind of as like a joke or maybe as like a party prank with each other that seem like they're tangentially related

to the demonic, right? You know, kids will use a Ouija board, which is explicitly demonic. Or maybe they'll go in the mirror and they'll say Bloody Mary three times. Things like this that seem kind of innocuous to the average person, maybe a non-religious person, do you think that these behaviors are dangerous? Well, it's more the intention behind it than anything else, is what is your intention? You just goofing off, that doesn't mean anything. There's no intention.

If you put intent behind it, then there could be a problem. I see. So you'd have to use a Ouija board and specifically try. to invoke some or conjure something. Or if you're doing some type of ritual, you'd have to specifically be trying to have some intention. Well, you have an intention, sure. I see.

When I pray the rosary, I have an intention when I pray the rosary. I just don't pray it, just to pray it. There's a reason why I'm praying it. And there's a means to an end. And I'm using the life of Jesus and the Blessed Mother as a means to that end. I see it. So there needs to be an intention.

Now, you had mentioned Native Americans in some of their traditions, and we'd spoke a little bit before that different cultures, virtually across the world that have any religious tradition, typically have some type of bad spirit. They have some type of evil spirit in Islam. It's known as a gin. In Santa Maria and voodoo, they'll have their own specific negative spirits. You had mentioned that sometimes these spirits behave differently.

Could you elaborate on the different types of spirits as they occur in different cultures, which spirits are the most volatile and how they manifest, depending on the culture that you're interfacing with? Well, that's just it. They're going to manifest within the culture. You know, it has to be understood, you know, what's going on.

And, you know, I was something that Ed Warren had brought out years ago, and it's something that I remembered is that the demonic will attack according to the culture. Like, you know, we were when he was speaking, about the Enfield demon, the Enfield England, the voices, they, when the voices were recorded, this disembodied voices, they were recorded in Cockney, in English Cockney. It was a court, you know, they didn't have a different way of speaking. They spoke according to the culture that they were operating within, you know, in Africa, they're going to operate in a different way.

So, you know, it's It's it It's the same exact thing The way we As human beings Say you're in the CIA Right You're going to go over to a country

And you're going to do some nasty things To some people You're going to go and you're going to mix with their culture You're going to attack them according to their culture Because if you don't You're going to draw attention to yourself They're going to see you You're going to get spotted

You know like if if ISIS comes and gets a safe house on this block, well, we're pretty much going to know they're there, you know, because they're not within the culture of this neighborhood. Now, I'm not saying that an Arabic family can move in, and they could be very nice people, and they can assimilate,

and that'll be great, that's fine. But what I'm talking about is ISIS is going to operate on a different level, on another level, and you're going to recognize it. Mm-hmm. I see. But you were mentioning that, you know, Santeria and voodoo, those demonic forces are perhaps more violent. I don't like dealing with them.

You've had experience with, you know, Caribbean demons. They don't go easy. Could you take us through some of those cases? How did this come up on your radar and what did you do? All the details of how it unfolded. Well, basically it was the people that was surrounding this one particular person. And where was this? This is in New York?

I believe it was New Jersey. I believe it was Jersey. And this person married into a family that didn't like her. The husband's mother, her mother-in-law didn't like her. And they owned a business that employed a lot of Haitian people, Jamaican people. And we believe. that the mother-in-law employed one of these people

to put a curse on this woman. Because we'd never been able to help her. Oh, really? Numerous, numerous, not only numerous exorcisms for her, but numerous exorcists. And it seemed that a lot of them, a lot of the exists, when they got involved with her, wand up, you know, some bad things would be for them.

One went missing. Hmm. He disappeared off the face of the earth. So, you know, there seemed to have been some type of pattern with this person that any exorcist that got involved with her usually got hurt. But Bishop McKenna did pretty well, you know. Bishop McKenna was different. And what were some of her symptoms,

what was going on with her that would indicate she was possessed? She would complain about, she would feel that something, the only thing that she can describe it as is a scorpion that would have many tentacles sticking into her body. This is what she would envision when she would come under possession. she would visualize this demon would completely involve her body,

envelope her body. And the, you know, the aversion to holy objects. But this particular person was able to receive the Holy Communion. She was able to receive the Holy Eucharist. And we believe that her demon was more of a devil than a demon. It was a high level and it was very, very nasty and we could not help this lady. Wow. And was she, again, violent or was she?

It wasn't so much as violent as her behavior was sinful. She was acting in a sinful way. And can you elaborate on what she was doing? Okay. But she was behaving in a way that indicated to the exorcism, the people around. She would live in a mortal state of sin. I see. I see.

And do you know what happened to her? Bisham McKenna was able to... Oh. Wow. And is there something as far as what the curses are doing within this specific culture? Is there a sacrifice? Is there some type of ritual that makes it more powerful? Don't know.

Hmm. Are you familiar with that in any other cases, some type of curse being done where someone does type of sacrifice. Yeah, that woman that we spoke about earlier, that was the result of a curse. Which one was this? This is a... The woman, the 90-pound woman. Right. That was the result of a curse. And is there a ritual that goes along with the curse? Are familiar with what these curses are? Yeah, they usually have rituals. There's very few people that are on this earth that we call or consider natural witches. And those are people that have the ability to just align an intention with a demonic entity and it'll be carried out.

But that's usually where you're dealing with people who are generational, meaning the whole entire family are saint-nist. The whole entire family is dedicated to Lucifer. The whole entire family is dedicated to the devil. Wow, wow. And have you ever met any of these people? Have you interfaced with them? Yeah. And can you explain what that experience was like? One of them was a real good friend of mine. Really? And how long did you know this person? I knew him for a few years. We spoke about him earlier, you and me. He could read minds. And was from a family of Satanists. Yeah. Wow. And was this person. person doing curses on people? Were they practicing Satanism in any actual sense? Well, he didn't have to do that. He could just form an intention and the familiar in his family would carry out the act. But he became, he became a religious. Oh, really? He became a brother. He left. He left his family

and they've been hunting him ever since. Oh, wow. They've been trying to kill him. for a long time. Actively trying to kill him. Oh, yeah, you don't leave the family like that. Wow. I mean, that's, and when you say carry out the act, that he would set this intention of the family would carry out the act.

What act is that? Whatever act he needed done. This would be sacrificing an animal or something? Well, it would, yeah, it would be a sacrifice that would go along. All ritual requires a sacrifice, you know, depending on what's at stake, you know, the greater, you know, the greater the steak, the greater the sacrifice, you know, the bigger the gift, the bigger the sacrifice.

You know, and human sacrifice is not off the table. It's usually animal. They go after the animals. It would be easier to do. Well, yeah, it attracts less attention, you know, a missing kid. might raise eyebrows. But these days, with the way kids go missing, do we really know where all of these kids are ending up? Now, can satanic possession or demonic possession results in death outright? We've talked about a lot of stories where people are being attacked. Well, that would be the result.

They'd want it. And that would be the end result. Have you dealt with a case that ended in those circumstances? Well, I've had people die, yeah. And how does that, how does that come to fruition? What are the the steps to that. Could you take us through a specific case? What do you mean during an exorcism? Or perhaps afterwards? Oh, no, no, no. Nothing like that.

Nothing is extreme. Broken ribs, you know, broken bones, injuries during exorcisms, they occur. But when you say someone dies. But I've never had anybody die. I've had, you know, people commit suicide. You know, we were working with them and just, got too much for them and they did away with themselves,

you know, stuff like that. But never during an exism, no, nothing is, you know, as dramatic as that, no. But afterwards, or years later than that. People die. Have they ever left like a note or some type of indication that they had killed themselves because of this possession? No, not that I'm aware of, no.

Yeah, it's unfortunate. It's, I mean, the idea of a curse is very scary that someone could just curse you. Is there any way to prevent someone from cursing you? Yeah. Pray to rosary. Yeah. You know, have a relationship with God. Mm-hmm.

Because not every spell or curse is going to work. It's impossible. God won't allow them all to work. Mm-hmm. You know, and I dealt with a guy in a case years ago and, he claimed that he was doing spells for the mob and I had asked him, I said, did they work?

He said not all of them. So I believe them then. Did the mob know that he was doing spells? Yeah, they were going to him for that reason. Oh, really? Yeah. And the mob was looking to whack people? They would use any means that they could use.

And if they can find a way to whack somebody, without having to actually go there and do it, you don't think they would do that? Holy cow, that would be the best. Hey, listen, I want Frankie gone. Yeah, do a spell. Boom, Frankie's dead. Wow.

That's it. Do you think that was- No cops, no DAs, no nothing? That would be the ultimate way. Do you think that was common with the mob? Or do you think this is a kind of a one-off kind of? I think a lot of the guys in the mob are afraid of this stuff and they try to stay away from it.

Right. They grew up Catholic typically. Most of them are Catholic because of the tangs, you know. I've heard stories of actual mob guys that were afraid to go into a house because there was something in their house. It was one of the guys that has the podcast. He said that this mob guy happened to kill his own father. And he dropped them off at the house.

And the guy said, wait a minute, he went up, he opened the door, and he called in and then waved to, you know, and he went in and, you know, he was wondering what happened, what's the problem? He says, I don't go in the house unless there's somebody else in there. I won't stay in there alone. I always wanted to contact that guy and try to elaborate on that to find out more about it because this is a guy who killed his own father. He's afraid to go into a house.

Because there's a ghost in it. Hmm. I wanted to know more about that. Yeah. You know, these guys, they don't mess with that stuff. They're afraid of it. So are ghosts always demonic? No.

No. In what way could a ghost not demonic? Human spirits are not demonic. Hmm. So could there be ghosts that someone could see that are not necessarily evil? Yeah. Any ghost that you see is not necessarily evil. They might be mean, but they're not evil.

And even if they are. they can't affect the spirit world once they leave the physical world. They can't affect this world, the physical world. But demons can. Oh yeah, the demonic can, definitely. I see. And there are three types of spirits, human spirit, demonic spirits, and elementals, the nature spirits.

And what is an elemental? An elemental is a neutral spirit. It's neither good nor evil. It's an element of nature. It's an elemental. Anything that has a life has a soul, even the plants, they have a vegetative soul. Animals have a sensitive soul,

and us human beings have an intelligent soul. That's the breakdown according to the Catholic faith. And these elementals are usually utilized by wicken, by witches, in witchcraft. And like I said, they're neither good nor evil. That's how they utilized. I see. They don't speak.

They chirp. Sometimes you'll hear chirping. They'll make noises. A lot of noises that you might hear sometimes are attributed to elementals. They get nothing to do with human spirit or demonic spirit. So can animals become possessed? It's possible, but I, I've never heard of a case and I don't see why that would be possible.

The only time that I know of it in recorded history is the swine when Jesus let Legion go into the swine, but what did the swine do immediately after that and cast it out? They were they committed suicide. So even the pigs realized that what they had in them they didn't want. Interesting. Now in Catholicism in our faith, you know, items can be blessed. the inverse possible where items can be cursed. Yes, call them contact objects.

And have you dealt with this? Yes. And can you give me an example of a case where you dealt with a cursed item? I was, funny enough, Scott Derrickson was with me when I investigated this case. And Paul Baudman,

and they both wrote, Deliver us from Evil. And I had gone to this woman's house. There was a bishop that had sent me over there. And I believe this one was suffering for mental illness, but that doesn't mean that she didn't have a problem. So I was trying to figure out if a problem was spiritual or was mental illness.

And I was interviewing her, and I was sitting in a living room, and I noticed a bowl, a glass bowl, with a metal top on it and it had white powder in it. And I asked, I said, what, what's that powder? She says, oh, it's voodoo powder. I said, voodoo powder, where'd you get it? She said, I got her from the Protestant minister down the street. So I got up, see that holy water bottle?

I had that in my right hand. I poured holy water into my left hand. Right. Put the holy water on. I picked up the metal top and I sprayed a stream of holy water into that powder. And I got a shock from the tip of my left hand that traveled right up to my elbow. And I dropped that metal thing and I was, I was like all, I was not in control of myself. and I backed up actually and I walked by Scott Derrickson and Scott looked at me and said Ralph, you okay?

And I didn't, he said, I don't remember this. He said, you just walked, you gave me a look like you wanted to kill me. He said and walked right by me. And I don't remember any of that. But that nailed me. Nailed me good. What is voodoo powder?

What is this made of? What is it used for? I don't know what that is. and I don't know what it was, but all I know is that it was electrically charged because it went through my body. And I have a fear of electricity when I was three years old. Now, my mother swore that this is the reason why I was as nutty as I am,

but I took two keys and I stuck them into an outlet. And I never forgot that. I remember the feeling. I could still feel it. Yeah. And I fear electricity. And I got nailed by that, whatever was in that bowl. And I yelled at that lady and packed up my stuff and I walked out.

Wow. And the bishop was very upset with me, but I'm like, I'm not doing it. You deal with her. I'm not dealing with it. I got electrocuted in that house. I'm not dealing with that crap. Yeah. You need rubber boots or something.

Well, I was not expecting that. Yeah. Now, what about, like, you see this in film, like a cursed doll or some type of art. or a statue that's cursed. You see, what was the name of that movie? Annabel. Annabelle, right. There you go.

And have you heard of cases like this or worked on cases like this where, you know, someone purchased something or they were given a doll or some type of voodoo doll that it was causing problems? Not that I could, not something that was like in your face, you know, like that. It's real difficult. to decipher that, you know.

Like in the demon files, the mirror, there was a, the mirror was a contact object, you know, I sort of knew that. I don't know how I knew that, but I knew. That's how it works. I don't have ability outside of cases, sure. You know, I don't have no psychic. I'm about as psychic as a rock, you know.

But when I'm investigating a case, you know, I am more intuitive to what, you know, my surroundings and in the directions that I need to travel. Not all the time. Sometimes I'm pulling my hair out. You know, I'm trying to figure out what, where am I going with this? You know, why am I meeting brick walls here? Each case is different and you can never, you know, assume, it's going to be, yeah, it's going to be easy. Don't worry.

No. Uh-uh. Was there any can. specifically that made you just want to quit and just say it's not worth dealing with this. Have you ever been attacked in some way by a demon? Well, yeah, in the basement of that case that we spoke about, you know, with the woman who came under possession, I had gone downstairs after I had gone upstairs and that, you know, that door knob was rattling. And then it was rattling in the apartment. I was,

in while we were doing interviews, it was in the corner, it was rattling, you know, or down the hallway. I went down into the basement and it was split into two portions. There was like French doors and then in this area there was a living space. There was a washing machine and storage in this space. And I went into that area when I first went down there and I looked around. I checked everything. Ceilings. I lift ceiling. I look in everything.

And I come out. I shut the doors. And I went into the other side. And there was a mirror down there that I was interested in. So I took a couple of photographs of the mirror. And I just tried to get my impressions and I was leaving. And as I was walking out, something just gripped me, right?

right in this spot that I was in and I turned around it felt like something was behind me and I was looking at those two double doors and I couldn't move I couldn't breathe I was you know my heart was beaten I felt like I had a wet rag over my face

and I could not move I was frozen and I started to picture a big silvery cross in my mind that's how I was trained you know to to picture this big big silvery cross and I reached in my back pocket got that holy water bottle out and threw it at those doors and I backed up those steps because a couple of minutes or you know a couple hours earlier

I heard that there was a big ladder that was launched at somebody down in that basement so I was very cognizant of what was going on you know and I came up backwards and um later on I said I told my partner Joe. I said, hey, Joe, you know, I had this problem down in the basement over there, and he said, here, look at this. He says, why did you go down there without me? He says, look at this note. And one of the lines was, harm will come to those below. Beware the night. So I was laughing because the demon said, beware the knight, named the book. You know, we couldn't come up with the title. We had something else. So I'm like, you're going to, actually let this demon name my book.

So we were laughing about it. But that was the thing, Homer come to those below Beware the night. Wow. Wow. Now, you had said that, obviously, the book became adapted

into the movie, Deliver Us From Evil, and you were on set while they were filming the movie. And you had said that some things had happened on the set of this movie that were bizarre or strange. Can you elaborate?

Nobody came to me with that. I had heard that there was some things happening in California. And Calfman Studios. But there's always, there's always been things happening in Calfman Studios that's got a reputation is being haunted. So I discounted it. I was in a room.

It was probably the first or second day that I was at the studio and we weren't even ready for photography yet. It was all script work. So I was in a room with Scott Derrickson, Edgar Ramirez, Eric Banner, and the speech coach. Her name was Nadia. And I was sitting at a desk. And they were reading the script.

And all of a sudden, the window shade just came crash. off, it just came down, boom. And everybody in that room looked over at me. And I just sat there. Okay, what do you want me to do about it? The shade fell off the window. Continue. You know, so what?

Was it the old shade that fell? Or was it the demon that knocked it off the thing? I don't know. Who cares? It's a little unsettling. Yeah, but who cares? I mean, I care. I would care.

Yeah, I mean, if something flew off this book show, I'd probably be a little unsettled. Well, yeah, I guess, you know, it would. I just, I don't. It doesn't phase you. I'm desensitized to it. You know, it's, it's like seeing a dead body as a cop. Desensitized to seeing dead bodies.

The first time it's a little creepy, and then after a couple times, you've, it's just business. Well, yeah, you know, yeah, First time you're like, oh man, you know, what am I getting myself into? I got 20 years of this. But after a while, you really do become desensitized to it. It's no longer an issue. Yeah.

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go to Bluechoo.com and use the promo code Gagnon. That's right. Gagg N-O-N. It's kind of funny. Gagnon has the promo code. I don't know why exactly, but it is funny. And you're going to receive your first month for free. That's right. Bluechew.com. Use the promo code gagnon. Check it out, Blue Chew. Let's get back to the show. Okay, before we discuss aliens and hallucinogenic drugs, like I had said, I'm curious, there's a chapter in your book, The Werewolf, and it's not a chapter that I had gotten to. So could you take us through the case that is the Werewolf? All right, the Werewolf case, that case had come directly into me.

Actually, I got the call on that. And I got a, uh, I got a, uh, a call my answer machine and it was gobbled. And the only thing that I can understand was help me. It drove me nuts. I was trying so hard to try and get the number that the guy was giving me, but I heard a lot of background noise and just driving me insane. And then a couple hours later, my partner Joe calls me. He said, Ralph, I just got a phone call.

We got a case. It's in Jersey. I think they were in Jersey. and he tried calling you from the highway. He suffered. He came under attack while he was driving his car, and he felt like something was wrong, so he pulled over, and he called my number.

Now, the way he got my number was, Ed and Lorraine Warren were on, I believe it was Sally Jesse Raphael, talking about a man named Bill Ramsey, who was from England, and he was demonically possessed by a demonic spirit that had the characteristics of a werewolf, right? He had an interesting case just like this guy, Craig Morton. And he tried to call me, but he couldn't get the message out properly,

and the background noise made it impossible. So the wife was watching Sally Jesse Raphael. and she saw it. And they gave, at the end of the show, they gave my number and Joe's number. And she took the numbers down and gave the numbers out to her husband. This is the name of the guy.

So I guess he must have come under attack and then decided to call me. And we wound up setting up an interview and he was tearing up, He was digging up the asphalt outside of his house with his hands. He was tearing at it. It's the way the man from England, Bill Ramsey, was digging up the tiles in his bathroom floor.

He would feel an attack coming on. He would lock himself in the bathroom, so he didn't hurt anybody. And he would scratch at the floor at the tiles and tear up the tiles. And that's what this guy was doing here in the United States. States. So, you know, I was familiar with it. I heard it before. So we set up an exorcism with Bishop McKenna. And we had gone up there. And during the litany of the Saints, like I said, that's how the Bishop starts. During the Litany of the Saints, Greg started to react. We had him

in a straitjacket. And he started reacting to the Litany of the Saints. and he actually was able to pull his arms almost out of the straitjacket. You know, it was looped around, but he was getting those arms free. And what I had was, you know the clotheslines, it's got the nylon or the vinyl around the nylon. Well, that's the, I replaced the cloth string with that nylon string. it was stronger, you know, and tied that up. And he started to pull that apart. So, you know, we jumped on him.

There was about eight of us there. And he was growling. And he actually moved us all the eight of us. He moved us all over to the side. He pushed back on the pew and it pulled the pew out, the moorings out of the floor. Wow. So finally, the bishop realized,

we were having a problem and he turned around and he came with the holy water and he he uh in his style he told it to be quiet stop with the gibberish and listen to the prayers demon that was bishop mcetta stop with the gibberish demon and uh he went back to the prayers and um it was over just as as quick as it started. So the bishop continued with the full, you know, with the full exorcism. And Greg just sat there crying and sweating, saying it's over. It's gone. It's gone.

He just kept saying it's gone. And that was it. I got a Christmas card from them the next Christmas, and that was it. Wow. And do you know how he got possessed by this demon? I have no idea. Wow. I have no idea.

And was there issues in his home? I have no idea. Strange. Now, if someone feels as though they have some type of issue like this, like this is manifesting within them or their house has some bizarre occurrences, what should they do? Contact the priest. Just of a local parish.

Hopefully you'll get the priest over your house to bless the house. I mean, if you look at Bill Ramsey, I mean, he got possessed. he claims when he was a young kid. And it stuck with him through his whole entire childhood. It was just dormant. And he described it as he remembers the day. He said he was out in his backyard. He said he felt a coldness deep in his soul like he never felt before.

And he didn't understand it. That's what he described it. And then it took him over and he would lose consciousness. He would not remember. what he did. And he was running around, what is the, South End on Sea,

England, terrorizing people, beating cops up, tossing six foot cops across the room. Was he successfully exercised? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's,

I mean, it's kind of scary that this could just happen to be dormant. Well, he came from England to America, and Bishop McKenna

exercised them. I wasn't involved with Bishop McKenner at the time. I did meet Bill Ramsey later on, but I wasn't involved in any of his exorcisms. Now, can non-Catholics exercise effectively? What do you mean? Like other faith traditions, Protestants, other religious folks that are not Catholic? Well, you know, the Protestants have deliverance ministers. and I don't know if you know who M. Scott Peck is.

Well, M. Scott Peck is a pretty prominent Protestant deliverance minister and psychiatrist. He wrote, children of the lie, people of the lie. People of the lie. I was in his house with Bishop McKenner and Father Kumer Swami. You know, they were performing an exism onto his congregation. I don't know of many Protestants that have been successful in exorcism. I believe they can be. I believe a layman could be successful in solemn exorcism.

I just don't ascribe to doing it. But I believe that Father Martin, he adhered to the fact that there are some laymen that would be successful exercising people if they undertook the task. And I guess you would mention that there's some prophylactic measures you could take to say, you know, praying the rosary, going to confession regularly. You had mentioned the scapular. And Phil had mentioned in the break that he didn't, he wasn't sure what a scapular was. Can you just explain the difference between a scapular and a blessed metal or miraculous metal

and how those could be used in a demonology? It's just a different devotional, you know, like the miraculous. metal. They're all accompanied with prayers. We just don't have the, it's not a talisman, you know, or an amulet. There's a devotion connected to it. They're accompanied with prayers. And, you know, it's just one of the many different ones. You have, you have the rosary, you have the St. Michael Chaplet, you know, which is another form of devotion for the St. Michael and the Angels. And, you know, it's just one that you might feel drawn to.

You know, there's many of them. Right. That's about it. It's, you know. And there is a crucifix on it and a St. Benedict medal also, which is very powerful against demonic. Mm-hmm. Now, I mentioned before we've recorded, I had friends that have described alien abduction,

that they believe one friend in particular, he described that his house had some bizarre events that happened when he was a child, that they moved into a home. And if I'm remembering correctly, this came from an episode I did with this guy named Jay King, really sweet guy. And in his home, he went downstairs in all the books that they were planning on putting on the bookshelf. They went downstairs and they were all laid on the floor in the basement. And they thought that was pretty strange. And then a couple nights later, he had woken up to seeing like three beings that looked like kind of gray alien-type beings

that you might see in a movie. And they came close to him and touched him on the forehead. And then he doesn't really remember anything after that. He said that the beings moved in kind of like a strange fashion. They kind of almost looked like they were being puppeted, so to say, like a marionette,

that they weren't walking like a normal human would walk. And he doesn't remember really anything else. He remembers vague memories of perhaps being abducted, being in some type of sterile room, and kind of a quintessential alien abduction story. and then was back in his bed, woke up that morning, and felt traumatized, felt scared, you know, hated the experience.

And throughout his life, continued to have more experiences like this, you know, waking up in the night and seeing these entities that would talk to him and things like that. And he became very involved in the UFO community. He said this is aliens and I'm being contacted by extraterrestrials. What do you make of a story like this? Well, I believe that aliens are a demonic deception. I don't believe that they are real in the sense that we believe them to be.

I don't believe they're from another galaxy. I don't believe they've been created by God. I don't believe they've been created by something other than God. A lot of the UFO phenomenon, and listen, when I was younger, one of the things that I used to read, I started out in the UFO genre and then went over to, the ghost stories. So it's something I failed to mention because it was such a short period in my life

that the first attraction was to UFOology. As a matter of fact, I know Bob Worth. I knew Bob Worth. He was the president of Mufon at a Jersey. I met him a few years ago. Well, a few years, it was a long time ago. When I look at the UFO phenomena, it reminds me more of spirit energy than a craft. But that's not to say that the demonic cannot manipulate a metal craft.

What's to stop them from doing it? There isn't anything. To create that confusion about aliens, and demons. For what reason? I don't know. I really never gave it much thought. You know, what could be the reason why the demonic would want to be confused with an alien race?

You know, what benefit would it be to them? Mm-hmm. You know, and if you go into Einstein's theory of relativity, just the idea of space travel is not feasible, not even. for an alien race, 186,000 miles per hour, you know, what craft does that? Right.

So you think it's a spiritual, it's a spiritual energy. Everything is spiritual. Mm-hmm. Everything. The world around us is the distraction. And that's where the deception comes in. I see.

So if someone is having these types of apparitions, you know, where they're seeing type of entity. See a priest. Yeah. There's another phenomenon known as CE5. This is basically, you know, in a way, conjuring some type of alien interaction. And the way it would work as you would go with the CE5

is close encounters of the fifth kind is what it's called within the UFO community and that people would gather in potentially large congregations and they would kind of do some type of practice to see some type of orb in the sky. And the people that I've spoken to, I've never done it. Mass hypnosis?

I don't know exactly what it is. It's an interesting thing because I've spoken to people many times that have talked about this phenomenon, and they say, I went out, I didn't believe in this whole thing. I only believe in the material, I don't believe in the supernatural, I don't believe in these metaphysical things.

And I did this practice, and sure enough, I looked up and I see these orbs floating in the sky, and then they go away. And they're not planets, they're unlike planes that I've ever seen, and they say, you know, maybe it's aliens, who knows what it is. So I'm curious hearing that, you know, do you consider that to be demonic as well?

Well, this is the first I'm hearing about it. Yeah, I'd be curious to know what you think. really, I don't know anything about it, so I can't really comment on it. All I could say is that when you said that, the first thing that I thought about was the miracle of the sun in 1917 Portugal in Fatima, Portugal, where, you know, the devil will do anything in his power to confuse as many people as possible to keep them away from God. So that's the way I look at things in those terms. Because like I said, everything around us is a distraction.

You know, God is telling us, detach yourself from things of this world. You know, we're spiritual. We're missing so much more than just what we have around us because we've lost the ability. How can you be sure in our faith we have these Marian apparitions, right? I don't know if it exists. And I guess, you know, it's going to be more common amongst, you know, Catholic folks. This, you know, Mary appearing to the children of Fatima. I think George Washington might, might disagree with you, but go ahead.

Wait, what do you mean? Well, it's a well-known fact that George Washington was visited by the Blessed Mother during the Revolutionary War. I had never heard this. Well, it's a well-documented report. Can you tell me? I've never heard this before. I believe it was written by a man named Sherman, not General Sherman, his private physician, I believe. And he was, he wasn't feeling well that day, spent a lot of time praying that morning.

And he gave his personal physician orders to not disturb him less, you know, really necessary. And while he was in his tent, he looked up and there was a woman standing there. and he described her as one of the most beautiful women that he ever seen that it struck him dumb that he couldn't even speak that's how beautiful she was and we believe it was the Blessed Mother she showed him

she showed him she showed him three what was the word she used there was a specific word she used she showed him, she showed her three things and one was the Revolutionary War. The other was the Civil War. And the third one was a world war that hasn't happened yet. And she showed him four countries that are going to be connected to that third war,

that third world war. and she also told him that war is a chastisement sent to us from her son for being so sinful. That's how he punishes us as a nation is through war. And the civil war was a punishment for slavery. And the third war is going to be, I guess, the war that ushers in the Antichrist. I've never heard this before. That's what I'm assuming. That's interesting.

Now, how, as Catholics, can we be sure that Marian apparitions are different than a demonic apparition? Right? Like the Virgin Mother coming to Juan Diego in Mexico or to the children of Fatima. Well, it's in the message. You know, that's why we are supposed to know Scripture. We're supposed to know what the will of God is. So in case we are approached by some spirit and he gives us a message, we know it's it aligns with God or if it's not from God.

But there's another way. You know, we're told to test the spirit. St. Paul tells us to test the spirit. Any spirit that would ever manifest in front of me is going to have to prove itself to me. I'm going to ask it to say that Jesus Christ is king. The demonic will never do it. say I love Jesus. The demonic will never say I love Jesus.

They'll never say it. But a saint or an angel, they'll say it. They'll say they love Jesus. Praise be, Lord Jesus Christ. You know? In fact, they'll probably greet you in that manner. Fear not.

The Lord has sent me. Interesting. Now, I have friends that have done hallucinogenic drugs, ayahuasca, peyote, things like this. And they've claimed to have experienced God, that they've gone in this hallucinogenic state and they have convened with some type of universal power. And they said it was beautiful

and it was amazing and life-changing. What do you make of hallucinogenic drug experiences like this? Are they potentially demonic? What would be your thought on that? Well, you know, if you look at Felicity's Goodman, she's a social anthropologist, She studied these different cultures with their rask. She called it a rask, the religious altered state of consciousness where they'll take some type of substance and have a religious experience with it.

I believe there's some validity to it because of this K2 drug, this flocker drug. When these people take this drug, there seems to be some demonic. connection. It seems to draw out the demonic through chemical. Interesting. Now, I mean, you know, it's in the Bible, chemical.

Pharmica is in the Bible. We're very, very well aware of, you know, the herbs, the compounds that have a way of doing good, beneficial things and bad negative things to the physical body. If the physical body

and the spiritual are connected, of course. There could be some kind of a reaction to a drug in a spiritual sense, yeah. You know, I see it with that flock of stuff. Right. The way they behave, the voices, the sounds that are coming out of them are very consistent with what we hear during exorcism.

Interesting. Is it possible? It could be positive that someone could take these drugs and potentially commune with the one true God? Well, I don't see a reason why. It's not needed. There's no middleman that you need to connect with God.

Maybe a god with a little G. Yeah, because he's not omnipotent. He's not almighty. So you might need that drug in order to make the connection, but our God does not. So if these people are interfacing with something, you're skeptical that it would be the one true God. It might be some other type of spiritual force.

I couldn't answer. It could be God. It could be God. Why couldn't he? What's in the message, though? Right. You know, what is he saying to you? I had people that call me to say, you know, God talks to me.

And I'm like, yeah, what does he say? That I should come and talk to you. That's it? Yeah. Okay. I'm busy. Hmm. Father Martin told me a long time ago,

anybody who comes up to you and tells you they talk to God, take it with a large grain of salt, he just doesn't talk to people. The last person that I know that he spoke to was Moses. You're going to tell me you're like Moses? You're Joe Blow from Brooklyn. God's talking to you? But the last one he spoke to was Moses,

but here he is talking to Joe Bolow. blow from Brooklyn. Yeah. And his message to you is to, yeah, call that guy Ralph. That's it? Give me something. Yeah. Give me the lotto numbers.

I win the lotto. You're it. I'll talk to you all day long. Yeah. And twice on Sunday. So you've never had someone call you up that said, oh, I spoke to God. Yes. And revealed something that you thought was, I see.

Give me something. You know, you got to give me something. Yeah. I mean, this has been fast. Fascinating. I feel like we've covered a lot of bases. I appreciate you telling your story. Is there anything else that you guys are curious about that we didn't touch on? By all means, this is now the time. We didn't even scratch the surface. Oh, really? What do you mean by that? We can stay here for a couple of weeks and talk. Is there any final case that we should discuss before we get out of here? Maybe I can go through the book and we can just do one more. Claudia. Is it true that Claudia,

a widow living the sin of her lover? Claudia, that sounds like the case with the women. So can you tell me about the Claudia case? Well, actually, that was a warrant case. I was watching TV and I can't remember

was it sightings. I think it was sightings and they profiled this case and I recognized it immediately for being demonic, you know, and I actually I called up Ed after the show was over and I said, hey, I just saw a case on sightings about this family and he said, he said, Ralph, I don't, I'm not soliciting cases, he said, we don't solicit cases, he said, I know sightings and they, they know me, and if they, you know, they'll get us together if God wants it. So I'm like, okay, he taught me that. You know, it was a learning experience.

I don't solicit cases now because of that. So it was about a month or two later. I'm on the phone. And Ed goes, hey, Ralph, sighting's just called. They want us to go to, you know, this place. And I'm like, yeah, Ed, that's the case I was telling you about. He says, all, all right, I want you to come. come. So I'm like, all right, I'll get the day off of work. So my partner, Joe, couldn't get the day off of work. I got the day off and I had to drive out there. It was a six-hour ride, you know. And so I drove out there, raining, thunderstorm. And I'm like, why am I doing this? This is my day. I took a day off. I could be home right now, you know. So we get out there. I get out there. I get out.

out to that house. And I meet the, you know, I meet the family. They're all scared. They're all women. It was a house full of women. They're all scared. And, you know, a lot of times Ed Warren would, when people claim that they would hear the house being struck,

Ed would always tell them demonstrate it. You know, I want to hear what it sounded like. So they would try to bang on something. And it's always the people in the other room that aren't in there. When they hear the bang, they jump because they're all like on edge. So, you know, these poor people, they're jumping all over the place. So it was a long interview. There was like eight people in that house.

I was there for about 10 hours. It was a long, long time. And these poor kids were being, of course, physically assaulted and sexually assaulted. You know, it got to that point. They described it as this thing, it would originate in the basement. They knew it was coming because they can hear it coming up the steps. there was a short set set of steps and then the front door and then another short set of steps coming up and it was a pretty big house and they said it sounded like it had cinder blocks on its feet

as it was running up the steps so can you imagine this it's 3 o'clock in the morning you're in bed and all of a sudden you hear something running up from the stairs and you don't know when it gets down to your door what room it's going to go in and who it's going to attack because it could attack the mother in that bedroom it could attack the twins in that bedroom or could it attack the daughter and her cousin in this bedroom and they never knew where it was going to go

and what it was going to do and it terrorized them. And what was the process of exercising that home? Same thing? Well, I was downstairs with Ed and he goes, a kid, he called me, he said he called me kid. He goes, hey kid, go doing exorcism. So I'm like, all right, nice.

First he had me do religious provocation, which I hated doing. Hey, kid, do religious provocation, so I did it. And what is this? That's where you command the demon in the name of Jesus Christ to reveal itself. And I don't like doing it. And why not? Well, there's no time frame in the spirit world.

So there's nothing making it or stopping it from revealing itself three years down the road. And I had it happen. So, you know, I know it's a reality. And that's why I didn't like doing it. But Ed was the boss, you know, it was his case. I did what he told me to do and did it. So then he says, go upstairs and do the exism, and I went, and I did the exorcism. And it wasn't until about a year later that I found out that it was successful.

It was gone. I was happy to hear that. I felt bad for those women, you know. And are you still doing this type of work today? I'm more in a consulting role than anything else. I don't handle cases. You know, it doesn't mean that I won't. I will if I have to, you know, I don't want to do this work.

I'm tired, but I'll do it and I won't complain about it. I'll just do it. You know, God will let me know if he wants me to continue in it. If not, he'll keep me doing what I'm doing. If not, he'll just, he just drags me right back in. And I mean, he drags me. He just, let's go. When it was the last time he got dragged in?

When Deliver Us from Evil came out in the movies. I knew what was going to happen, and I didn't want it to happen, but it did. And that's it. Hmm. Has anything happened in this house specifically that you'd be willing to share? Nothing really... earth-shattering, you know, every once in a while, a little strange things happened, but nothing really that anybody would want to hear about, you know, you want one more story?

I would love one more story. I was living in Levittown. You know, my mother lived downstairs and eventually I moved into the apartment upstairs. and um they had Barbara Barbara was living she came in and um

I had my nieces and nephews living there too I had eight there was nine people living in this house and uh one night I'm sitting in a living room and I'm watching the television and

um I could see into her bedroom from the couch and into the other room and she comes into the living room, she was backing up.

And I looked at her and I'm like, what the hell are you doing? You know, when people walk backwards, I noticed things like that. What are you doing? She says, there's somebody in the dining room. So I get up and I,

I'm on the second floor. There ain't nobody in the dining room. And I go in there and there was nobody in the dining room, but she described this person to me. And I'm like, all right, you know, okay, it's all right. Don't worry about it. It's nothing.

You know, sometimes women, you know how they are. No offense. So I go into the bathroom and I hear a loud noise and I hear a scream. So I'm like, what the hell? Now I go outside and there was, she had these garden gnomes, Elementals, I called them. And I've been telling her for years, get them out of you, get them out. I don't want them here.

She says, I like them. They're my garden norms. I like them. Well, one fell over. All right, all by, it's lonesome. And these were a little heavy. These are a little heavy guys. They didn't move around by themselves, you know?

In the garbage, they went. Finally, I got my wish. So I am sitting on the couch and she's in her room and I'm watching TV. And all of a sudden, two sets of boots come flying out of the closet. on the floor, you know, she screams again. I had to laugh. That's what I was my reaction. I laughed.

The way she screamed, I just, I laughed. I got up. I picked up the boots. I put them in the closet. I said, when the doors are shut, the boots stay in the closet. And I went back into the living room. So now I'm starting to get a little, you know, worried. This is the third incident now I had in the shoe.

short, very short period of time. What the heck's going on here? You know? So I stopped, they thought about it, and then I realized what happened. This happened in the month of March. I filmed the demon files in the month of March three years prior. When I was doing religious provocation, there's no time frame in the spirit world. They revealed themselves to me.

In those three incidents. Hmm. Did anything else happen in the home? That was it. Hmm. I got the holy water out. I throw the holy water around. That was it.

Now, I didn't witness the first two incidents, but I did see the boots with my own eyes. You know, two pairs. Hmm. They didn't just fall out. They came out. You know, they were launched out of that closet. Hmm. You know, and these are heavy, these are heavy, you know, fried boots.

Absolutely. You know, heavy that. They make those boots at a tire, you know, the tires. Yeah, they're heavy. And they're heavy, and they hit that flaw, bada boom. Very strange. You know, you notice things like that. Yeah.

That's why you don't do religious provocation. It's nothing good comes from it. Yeah, I agree. Well, Ralph, thank you so much. I appreciate it. people want to find you or support you. Is there any way they can do that, buy your book, anything else? That's all.

No, I'm on Facebook. That's it. I don't have websites or, you know, anything like that. You can still get the book on Amazon, wherever you buy books. And that's it. You can see the demon files on Prime, and you can see Deliver Us from Evil, you know, on Prime or anywhere else. Amazing.

Well, thank you so much. Thank you to the leisure line guys for making this possible. Thank you to my mom for connecting us. And above all, thank you, Ralph, for taking the time to do this. It was my pleasure. I really appreciate it. Absolutely. When I'm back, we'll do another one. Thank you so much. If you've made it to the end of this episode, you are clearly someone who understands that beneath every historical event lies a deeper truth waiting to be uncovered. You're the type of person who knows that real history is more fascinating than any fiction. And we deeply appreciate that about you. I'll be honest. Exactly why I personally invite you to sign up for today in history. Our free newsletter that goes beyond the surface of historical events, we dive into the stories that textbooks never told you, the secrets that challenge the course of nations and the forgotten tales that deserve to be remembered. Let's continue this journey of discovery together. Take the conversation from your headphones into your inbox. Sign up now through the QR code or link in the description today in history because every day holds a secret way to. to be revealed. Thank you for being part of our historical journey. We'll see you next.