Camp Gagnon - Philly Boss Joey Merlino talks Getting Shot, Surviving Prison & Gay Mafia Members

Episode Date: April 2, 2024

🏞️ Sign up for free and exclusive updates: https://camp.beehiiv.com/00:00 Intro00:42 Origin of “Skinny Joe”, true stories + Franzese flipping03:36 How they both met + we don’t tolerate rats here08:21 DA’s incentives to convict + innocent people sitting in jail10:57 Ralph Natale = Breaking Sad + “don’t know until you live it”16:07 Why was Skinny Joey targeted? Helping the neighbourhood18:57 People trying to kill you, shot in drive-by + getting into a fight on the way25:19 Nothing changes...

We got shot. Just walking down the street, me and Michael. And the car came and that was it. I don't know who did it. I mean, you're fucking fucking. And they drove away. I have no idea who shot us. Michael died.

He was bleeding in bed. Did you feel it when it hits me? Yeah, I'm up right. 45. You got no fight driving in the hospital. We were in a car. I had these two black kids from my day when I knew what I'm good. I said, drive me in the hospital.

I said, driving me, you know, to beep the horn. They ain't got no fucking siren. And the guy's like, fuck you. They start fighting. I said, you got to take me to fucking hospital. I'm bleeding over there. And then they took me to Pennsylvania hospital let me out. I got in a wheelchair. I wheeled myself in.

It's crazy. Who was the funniest mob guy? Why are you going to say a mob? He was the funniest friend. Yeah, funniest friend. That's a good point. We'll edit that out, okay? What's up, gentlemen? Thank you guys so much for coming over today.

I really appreciate it. A lot of stuff I would love to get into. I would love to know why you're the youngest person to ever get banned from every casino of the United States. I'm curious about the story of how you robbed an armored truck. I'm curious if there's any gay members in the mafia. I'm curious how you survived prison with terrorists. I know you've talked about Sammy the Bull before,

so I'm curious your thoughts on him. But before we get into all of that, let's just start at the very beginning. Why did they call you Skinny Joe? The media gave me that name. Oh, really? Yeah. No one ever called you that growing up.

You know he gave me the name that organized crime. No, nobody ever called me that, my whole life. I had a cousin, Joey, who was fat. It was 250 pounds, and I was skinny. So I guess when they used to follow us, they used to say which one, the fat one or the skinny one. We had the same name. Was that kind of flattering for you at that time? But then that's who used to call me.

I mean, nobody ever called me that when I was a kid, Skinny Joey. When you saw it in the news for the first time? The news gave it to me, skinny Joey. Were you a little flattered? No, I don't know what I'm a fuck. I mean, if I was the other guy, I don't want to be fat, right? I'm skinny Joe. Like, what the fuck?

This is hurtful. You guys have a great podcast. I've been listening to a bunch of episodes lately, man. It's been really, really fun. Yeah, we have a good time. It's a wild. You listen to it for an hour, and the pod is just like, hey, fuck these rats. Absolutely.

First off. And then it's just sports picks. And we're talking about sports all of a sudden out of nowhere. And then it's the most insane crime story I've ever heard or mob story, like, ever. It's like, yeah, we robbed this truck. Fuck rats. Also, I think the Jags are going to take it this week. It's like, this is the most insane hour of content I've ever heard.

We put it all together fast, too. I mean, me and Joey do it all. We ain't got no writer. It's amazing. It's amazing. You got no producer or nothing. Nothing. This is how you guys really are.

When you're really talking? Yeah. There's nothing fake hair. Nothing. Nothing. You got nothing written down. There's fucking stories. They're all true.

Yeah, this guy got wrong. When you're telling the truth, it's easy. We clipped this guy, but then the Pats this week, I think. Yeah, bats are going to win. It's unreal, man. It's unreal. When you speak the truth, you don't have to write nothing down. Yeah, yeah.

I like that. I'd like that you say that. Everything you say on the pod is all the stories are 100% true. 100% true and everything to back it up. And you're going to keep it real today? Yeah. And he's got the paperwork for everything. So there's never a question.

Like, you'll see, we post the information on me. Like a guy French easy said he never told them nobody. I put the 302s up. They don't lie. They ain't mine. They're his. Yeah, what did you think of, like, his response to that and the back and forth? No, I don't, that's what they want me to do go back and forth.

I ain't going to go back and forth. He knows what the fuck he is. Yeah. He's a fucking lying, no good rap motherfucker. He's there. Fucking robbing the church, robbing this. He's a scammer. It's all light.

But they all say the same shit, you know, like, and I've been saying it on every show. When they get caught, they changed. No, they didn't change until they got caught. He didn't walk in and say, I'm going to change my life. No, you got caught, you're going to get 30 years, or whatever the fuck you're going to get in jail. And then you changed. Interesting. All in.

Every one of them. They all got the same shit. Could you tell me how you two know each other? What is the relationship between you all? I know his grandfather. My father and his grandfather were friends. I'm friends with his father, his mother. South Philly.

It's tight. Yeah. Everybody knows everybody. So you knew this guy since he was a little kid. Since he was born. And how was he when he was a kid? A rotten little fuck. I was always around, you know what I mean?

Yeah, ballbreaker. Throw shit at you when you're playing cards. I want to fucking kill him. Yeah. But it just goes now, it's later in life, so it's different. Now I grew up, you know, I'm 32 years old now. But since I'm a kid, I know him my whole life. We used to play in Ralphie Head's father's hangout, you know, gin poker, and he would throw

shit out as well. Play Joe, leave us to fuck alone. Run out. We chase him. No, he was a rotten kid. Did you ever get wax in the head a good time? Oh, yeah. My uncle used to throw glass bottles at me.

Yeah, yeah. My father, they used to, they used to kill me. Did you ever give him a smack, be honest? No, I couldn't catch the little mother-ball. He's the wrong. You could catch him now, though. I think you could catch him now. Yeah, I keep gaining more weight.

You'll be catching me quicker. He's fucking, he got heavy. Yeah. Now, on the pod, there's a very consistent theme that we don't like rats, okay? That's what you guys say all the time. Well, I hate them, but I expose them. That's all I'm doing. They try to justify and lie.

Listen, they put good people. Listen, everybody in jail is not innocent. I'm not saying. There's guys in jail that are innocent. that did a lot of fucking, like Marty just said, his hearings coming up now. God spares, he should win. They lied.

The guy's in jail 33 fucking years innocent. How would you like you were in jail 33 fucking years? Yeah, but you'd go crazy. And you didn't do it. Yeah, I would lose my mind. It's fucking nuts. People ask me like, oh, your cases, listen, yeah, I got to quit it. Why did you get a, why I got to quit it?

I didn't do it. The fucking jury's seen it. You know, we didn't do it. So then tell me, obviously, there's a lot of reasons, but I'm curious for your specific reason. Why do you hate rats so much and how does this apply to your personal life and sort of the work that you did? They just lied to save themselves. I mean, that's...

Listen, this shit's been going on since life. Look, Judas, that motherfucker. He's over here, right, Judas. He's doing the Jesus. Yeah. Look, he's talking to him in his ear. Hey, what's up, guys? Sorry to interrupt this amazing program, but I need a little bit of help.

If you're watching this on YouTube, you can probably see our subscriber number right down here. And if you're able to, it would mean the world if you could be able to, if you could subscribe. That is the best way to support this show because when you subscribe, I'm able to show it to potential guests or to different brands and stuff like that. And it really, really helps grow the show, get us cooler guests, have cooler conversations, and it helps everything so, so much. So if you don't mind, thank you so much. Let's get back to it. Hang on one second. I got to take my magic mind. Helps me stay alert. Anyway. Now in your time with some of the, with the family in Philadelphia, there were a couple of guys that ratted on you, that turned on you. Is that fair to

Yeah. And so did that change your perception of rats, or were you always steadfast on handwritten? Everybody who testified against me and my friends got caught doing their own crime. They didn't get caught. It ain't like we robbed a bank, me and Ralph Natale in a car, and then he said, I'm going to tell on you. He got caught selling meth. It was his fourth time he was getting life with no parole. He's never getting out.

He got his son pinch, his son-in-law pinched. And then he just made up stories about me and my friends. Yeah, so you get out of jail-free card. That's what it was. I see. Another guy, Pete Caprio, from Jersey up here. My lawyer asked him to understand, how many people did you kill? He said, I don't know, 28, 30.

He didn't even how many people he killed. He needed me. He said that I told him to kill this guy Sedano, which was not true. We didn't do it. I had nothing to do with it. He did it. And he got out of jail. His son got out of jail.

Some is doing 14 years. They let him out of jail just to get me. He's fucking nuts. Say Joey Merlino's name. That's it. That easy. Yeah. He told me to do it.

That's it. That's all he said. There was no evidence. Oh, really? He told me to do it. There's no tape. Me told him to do it. Then he lied at the trial. This is how we beat the case. I mean, I didn't do it anyway, but we were innocent of all the things. And the jury, and we proved it. This motherfucker said he met me in the talk of the town steak place.

That's where we're going to open our. Our cheese state place. I'm opening the cheese state place in South Florida. Yeah, Skinny Joe's. So he said that after the murder, happened. I went and met him there and he hugged me, kissed me. We sat down, we had cheese steaks. It sound good. I mean, the story did sound good. That's not a good look. But come to find out, the joint was burned down a year ago, burned down to the ground. There

was no cheese steak place there. So we called the owner and the guy came in a wheelchair. He said, this is your place? Yeah. Could this meeting have to take place each year? He said impossible. The place was burned down. Wow. But they don't check. You know, they just sounds good. So they just make up a story. They made up his fucking story. That's it. Look how easy it is. Joey he told me to do it and I met him in a cheese steak place. And now why do you feel like the DA was so so dead set on getting you? Like why were they given such good deals? They all get promotions.

The guy, Zane Meminger, he was the head U.S. attorney. He's making four or five million a year in a big law firm. Listen, they don't care, but they just wanted conviction at all costs. They don't care. Look at this lady Barbara Christie. She tried my father that motherfucker. And the murder case, we beat it. A friend of mine, Joey Marone's lawyer from Philly, he's getting a lot of people.

out of jail that are innocent. He just got a guy two days, three days ago, whatever. 44 years straight, innocent. Innocent. The guy did 44 fucking years. How you replace that? They let him right out. Yeah. Has the fifth guy, the fourth guy he got out this year. 147 years, 144 years, 1.30s. That's fucking nuts. To being fucking Jill. You're at your whole life. It can't be replaced. Completely innocent. Innocent. We had a guy on the show about this. Wow. My friend McKeil, 47 years in jail. innocent. And what was the charge that they alleged to go out on?

But they lied. They said that they confessed. They didn't confess. They beat them up. They made false statements. I mean, it's just nuts.

It's fucking nuts. Years ago, I mean, it was really bad. And these juries can't verify, the judges can't, like, they don't know about it. They don't hear it.

Are the cases not strong enough from the lawyers? They don't hear about it. They hide shit like Marty just said it. He's got a shot to get out. Now he's in jail 33 years. Two guys testified for Leonetti this fuck.

and the piece of shit and this other guy Al Diarco they said that he did this murder they held the 302 it's a FBI

reported 302 they had it for 30 years he was at a dentist when it happened it's impossible for him to do the murder because the dentist was fucking hour

and half away he was getting his teeth done in a fucking dentist chair and they held it back it's crazy and he got it from the Freedom Information Act

now he's got a shot they should let him go but he's still 33 years in fucking Jill he's in jail now he's in fucking dirt

time? He's in the rollway. I mean, did they get the dentist to come testify? Well, they didn't, you know, I guess when they pinched him, he didn't remember exactly where he was at. They fucking, you know, I don't know what I eat last week, let alone fucking 20 years ago, you know what I mean? You don't remember. I guess if I'm a-if, now they got the 302. Now they got everything. They got the dental records where he paid, so he should get out.

Wow. But it's fucking sad. It's fucked up. Yeah. And then how many other people like that? Not even in your circle. Listen, no, just, listen, how many Spanish, black guys are in jail? They don't have no money to get a good lawyer.

Yeah. They give them a fucking public defender. When they get roofed. They don't go to fuck. Yeah. The public defender is getting 100, whatever, a fucking hour. They just keep on dead. Don't worry, you're going to be good.

They get life. That's it. The public defender goes home. They go to fucking Jill for the rest of their life. Now, Ralph Natal. Right. This is one of the main, quote, unquote, rats that you would say. He was the guy in our case, yeah.

This is the guy that you were working with that then flipped on you. No, I wasn't working. We knew him. I met him in Jill. I met him in 1991, 92. I should have fucking, I should have fell down the steps when I met him. He was in jail for drugs. I didn't know.

I never knew him from the street. Oh, really? Yeah, we met him in jail. We were like friendly. Oh, so you guys never knew each other. No. He came home from jail. He got for selling meth.

He got caught selling meth again with Ron Prevety, who was another, he was an undercover informant. He was wearing a wire on him. And we got a tape. He tells, he called us the kids. He tells Prevety. He don't tell the kids what I'm doing. They were selling meth. Oh, wow.

I got a tape he's saying we could sell it to the college crowd. He's trying to tell fucking meth. There's college kids. And Prairie was a cop. And Prerty was on the cover cop. And we played in the tape and they were saying it, the prosecutor got up. He was mad. It don't say college crowd.

It says older crowd. Motherfucker had said college crowd. So the judge was fiery. He said, well, let them play it and let the jury decide what it says. And that's what it said, college crowd. He wants to sell fucking drugs to the kids. Sam and a bull. He got out.

Listen, the guy got a break. The guy got fucking five years. five years for 18 murders he did like three years he got out you figured he got a break from God what do he do soon as he got out he sold ecstasy to kids he got 20 years

they don't they don't they can't stop like it don't sound right like a normal person you say yourself like how could they only get five years for 18 murders something's wrong I got two years for making a bet and it's legal now three years more than me for fucking killing 18 people yeah that's a little I got two years for making a fucking bet

so what happens take me through like how this whole process works. So Natal gets jammed up for a different crime. His crime, nothing to do with me. Nothing to do with you. And then what happens? The district attorney goes to him and they say what. The U.S. attorney tells him, you're dead.

Here's the tapes. You're getting life with no parole. You ain't never getting out. And his charge was like a RICO or something? Well, he got charged meth. That was his fourth drug conviction. Oh, wow. He got two convictions while he was in jail.

He had his son-in-law and son-in-meth. Why he was in jail? He got his son-in-law. Yikes. And then he got him pinched again. He got the son a little pitched again when he got out. So he gets jammed up. They come to him and say, hey, you're dead, but we have a little deal for you.

Right. And what is the deal? Give his Joe when you go home. That's it. Say Joe Marlino and you leave. 10 years. The son-in-law got out a couple years. They were never getting out of jail.

Wow. Pete the crumb, never getting out. He was 80s son anyway. They let his son out. His son got 14 years for drugs. Nothing to do with us in Jersey. When he got pinched and cooperated, they let him out and let his son out. Wow.

That's how easy it is. And now, do you think the state is working with them to say, hey, like, you want to the feds control the state? Are the feds saying, hey, make this story up, hey, push this story to the press? Or is it just like, hey, whatever you want to say, then we will go with that. Like, how does it work with? I mean, all they got to say is Joe, all you got to do is read the paper. So Joey told me did this.

Joey told me did that. And then that's it. That's that easy. Wow. We had a guy we just did Adam, a good friend of his, he was facing 213 years in jail, never met Joey a day in his life. they told him listen all you have to do is say Joey Merlino is involved in this

you get out tomorrow morning just like that we just did a whole podcast on it we went to Vegas to do it you guys didn't know each other no I met him and Jill I was fucking never known and the court like going to court hey how you don't what happened you know nothing he said I can't do that they gave him 212 fucking years

and he got out thank God you know I'm gonna keep that in mind if I ever get pulled over I'll be like hey I know Joey yeah I'll tell you whatever you want you'll be right out yeah no point now right now it's just it's crazy He's another kid. We're going to do a show on him.

The one with the Stevie Crea, the Dominic, Pasqualee or something. Yeah. He was driving and fucking, he was one of them fucking Hillbilly Towns. He gets pulled over.

He gets pulled over. He's a fucking dead junkie. He puts heroin up his ass. The cops get him. I guess they found it or whatever. He's getting locked up. He's on parole, probation. He tells him, I know stories about Stevie Creer.

They like, they call the FBI. Hold them. them let him go and the guy went in and just lied about this poor guy this guy's doing life with no parole we're trying to get him out too it's we push back you'll see us posted all the time Dominic so yeah it's crazy it's scary well listen you don't know it till you live it yeah i mean i've never been in this right you never been in court right so i've never seen this but i guess what look at joe byde like they look look down with his son he's living it like yeah i mean he seems like he's having a

great time. Yeah, he's having a ball. He's everywhere. He don't know where to fuck he's at. But I'm just saying, like, you don't know it until you live it. Wow. Like the kid, Adam, his wife, he met her why he was in jail. Like, she was like, I never even talked to a cop.

Like, you know, she didn't want to go out with him. You know, they became friends. Now they got a beautiful kid. They're married. But she never, she said, I wouldn't, like, you always think they're telling the truth. You know what I mean? You don't know. Until you live it.

Now, do you feel like they wanted to pin you down because you were sort of like, you know, doing public appearance? You were having this big Thanksgiving thing. Like you were very, I guess, open with the press. Well, I helped the kids. I mean, I help people. Do you think that angered the feds? I mean, I don't know.

I mean, they ain't giving the fucking kids nothing. Right. I mean, what did I give things? I mean, we had homeless kids. I had fucking, how many kids was? A hundred kids living in an abandoned church with no heat. I paid their heat. It was fucking dead winter, Philly freezing.

Wow. With the girl Sherri Honkla, she was good. How many times did you pay somebody's electric bill, welcome by? Yeah. I'm not doing it. Like, people don't even know. You know what I mean? Like, we just have the hangout.

I see the electric company shutting the fucking ladies electric. How fucking electric? I would go fucking pay it. Yeah. Oh, wow. For just the past holiday, we raised $100,000. We gave 50 coats, 100 jackets, dinner for how many kids were there? 100.

100 bikes. 100 bikes for Christmas, like for people to have, you know, a holiday. We gave $5,000 back to prison reform for families. Their kids are home and, like, their grandparents were taking care of them and can't buy them gifts. We just gave them, we donated to everybody. breast cancer, SPCA, gave $100,000 on. We're doing a big dog thing on the 20th.

Yeah, Romeo's rescue. So Joey's been giving back since like the eight. Yeah, even doing this for a whole life. I've seen the old videos. The Christmas Day, feeding everybody. We gave about 500 turkeys again, sure. And I wonder if the fed see that and they go, oh, this guy, this guy's like, he's being arrogant.

He's putting it out in our faces. We got to go get him. Do you feel like that's what's going on? I mean, I got something. Something bothered them. But regular cops, like, love it. Oh, yeah, of course. They think it's the greatest thing ever.

Like, they support it. It's crazy. Yeah, it's not the cops really that you didn't. No, it's not the cops. It's the feds and the... Yeah, I mean, it's just fucking informants and it's just dangerous. Yeah. But now it's over, what the cases are over.

What about Damien the other day? Leave me to fuck alone. I'm going to fucking Florida golfing. Yeah. Like the other day, we took a young kid. He's 13 years old, right? Damien. So when the podcast came out, he found Joey on social media.

13 years old. loved them, like just loved the show. He got diagnosed with cancer. He's got leukemia. It's a rare form of cancer. Joey would FaceTime him every day. You got this. You're going to beat this.

He was in Children's Hospital. Like, getting radiation, chemo, you know, and I would FaceTime. You love it. You know, you got out of hospital. He's out. He took him to lunch the other day. I took him to lunch.

He's a beautiful kid. Yeah. I mean, you got kids of your own. Yeah. Like you remember when your kids were that age, like to go through that is terrible. That's the worst fucking thing in the world. But you won't see that in the news.

You'll never see the positive stuff. But we don't do it. He doesn't do it for that. He doesn't care. I'm going to go, fuck. But I'm in the news. It don't bother me to the media. They're going to talk bad about me anyway, so fuck.

Yeah, don't matter. I mean, that must have been a stressful time. Like, looking back, I look at that time, like the mid-90s between, you know, dealing with the feds coming after you and them trying to pin you for all this stuff. And then on top of that, you have 30 different hits out on you, 30 different attempted murders. I didn't even know nothing about them. I didn't even know it. I mean, it all came out in court. I don't know these people.

I don't know none of them. I don't even know her. That fucking, the ugly girl, what's her name? Colletti's wife. She said, she tried to poison him in a bar. She says, he's never even seen her. Oh, really? That's what she said.

She was staying outside the federal building with a bullseye, said I was going to kill her. I don't even know the motherfucker. Like, that's crazy. She said she was going to put Sinai in my drink. She was so ugly she didn't have the chance to talk to me. If she was pretty, I would have drank it. Like, these are real life stories.

Like, it's crazy. Wow. Yeah. And when I'm on the pie, And he's telling the stories. You see my reactions. Like, your reactions. Like, I'm listening to him like, this is crazy.

You got really, I'm only 32. Yeah. So I'm here. Like, my dad, of course, heard the stories. Before your time. You know what I mean? It's before my time. So I'm really staring at him like, wow.

Stories are crazy. Yeah. Listen, these rats been around. Look, Judas. Yeah, it's beginning of time. Look what he did. I mean, it's stressful. I mean, it's stressful.

So even in that whole time, because obviously there was the one drive by that actually you got clipped by it and you got injured. Yeah. Would you mind just kind of taking me through some of the steps of how that occurred. I was just walking down the street, me and Michael. And the car came and we got shot. That was it.

I don't know who did it. I didn't see no, but we didn't say it. I mean, you're fucking dunking. I ain't fucking looking, and they drove away. I mean, that's a... And then it came out in court testimony. They said they did it. I don't know.

I have no idea who shot us. Yeah. I mean, that's a brutal thing. Like, that's probably the worst thing that could happen to someone is. Like, you were there because Michael ended up passing away from it. Right there. Well, he was dying. I didn't know.

At the time he went to, he went in the ambulance. and I went to the hospital, and then I seen it on news. But Michael was a good man, tough, tough man, good father. Young, young, young kid for no reason. Yeah. And did you even know what was happening? No. You heard the shots, obviously.

And you went right down. Did you feel it when it hit you? Yeah, motherfucker right. 45 in my ass. Wow. And what, was it immediate? You're like, oh, I just got shot. Yeah, you heard the sound.

Wow. Yeah. I mean, and were you, like, did it, were you afraid in that moment? Were you, like, did you think you were to, I knew, no, I knew I was okay because it was my leg, you know, didn't hit no artery. It was bleeding, but not bad, you know what I mean? He was bleeding in bed. It's crazy.

I mean, that's wild. So even in that moment, you were like, okay, we got to help out Mike. Yeah, we're trying to save him. Because he, my, my... The ambulance came. I made him go into the ambulance. I went with two kids in the neighborhood. They drove me to the hospital.

Wow. We got in a flight on the drive. Yeah, that's a crazy story. You got no flight driving the hospital. After you got shot? We were in a car. I had these two black kids from my neighbor. I know what I'm going. I said, drive me in the hospital. I'm shot. So to drive me, you know, to beep the horn.

They ain't got no fucking siren. And the guy's like, fuck you, fuck you. They start fighting. I said, you got to take me to fucking hospital. I'm bleeding over there. And then they took me to Pennsylvania hospital and let me out. I got in a wheelchair. I wheel myself in. That's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. It's in the Philly and you, a little bit like, hey, fucking move guy. Like, why are you in a war? Yeah. We got a car. Fis fight. Yeah. Did you yell it all? Be honest. Did you get out the window? Yeah. Yeah. He's in the backseat probably screaming. fucking funny funny shit they were new guys

but you were never afraid in that whole time you were like oh I'm not gonna die you were like I can get through this I mean yeah I know

I was okay I was worried about Michael and then when did you hear about Michael when I was in the hospital and they came and told you that had no I see the news

I put the news on it's crazy oh wow I see no news yeah I was sad you got a beautiful family three kids well poor Natalie

just passed away his bar yeah no I'm best friend with both sons. Michael and Tino are good kids. Tino's my godson. Yeah.

Monique, poor, but she's been through. Yeah, scary. What an awful thing. Yeah, it's fucked up. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I need to tell you about one of my favorite new products

in 2024. It's called Zippix. Yes, Zipix is a nicotine-infused toothpick. Now, if you know me, you know I like to indulge in a little bit in nicotine from time to time, okay? That's true. I don't like to smoke it.

I don't like to vape it. Obviously, those things are very bad for your lungs. They're bad for your health. to make you feel bad when you work out. Not good. But nicotine on its own has been proven in scientific trials to actually improve neural communication, improve cognitive function, improve sharpness, improve mental clarity. Look it up. It's very, very interesting research. Anyway, back to Zipix. This is a nicotine-infused toothpick, okay? This is probably my new favorite way to get my little kick of nicotine. It's absolutely amazing. And it's great because you can use it anywhere at any time.

It's very, very discreet. You just pop it in, and immediately you're getting whatever. flavor you've purchased. This one right here, peppermint watermelon. Tastes amazing. They have six different flavors. They're all fabulous, and they all do the trick. Zipix is great for a couple of reasons. If you're like me and you don't like to smoke or vape, Zipix is probably my favorite way to deliver that nicotine fix right to your body. It feels absolutely amazing. It looks cool. And also on top of that, I sometimes get food caught reading this little tooth right here. I always carry flossers with me. I always carry toothpicks with me. But now I have two and one. Boom, after dinner, I'm getting a little fix and I'm getting food out of my teeth.

I mean, that's a win-win right there. Two, it looks cool. It's discreet while you're driving. You pop a Zipix in. You're feeling good. You're cleaning out your teeth. What do you want more than that? Secondly, if you're someone that maybe does smoke,

maybe you do use vapes, maybe you do use cigarettes, you're going on a long flight. You're going to be stuck somewhere. You're going to be at a funeral. You're going to be at a wedding. You're going to be a baby shower for your baby, and you can't be ripping Sigs or your own baby's baby shower. I mean, that looks insane.

So what are you going to do? Pop a Zipik. in, now you're getting your nicotine fix, and you're feeling good. Now, what if you're someone that doesn't even like nicotine? Zipix has something for you as well. They have B12 and caffeine-infused toothpicks if you're not a nicotine user or you're trying to get away from your nicotine habit. That's totally fine. Zipix has helped tens of thousands of customers in leading away to a healthier lifestyle that, you know, maybe they currently vape or use cigarettes, and they can probably help you too. Make your lungs happy and try Zippix nicotine toothpicks. Ditch the cigarettes,

ditch the vap, get a nicotine infused toothpicks, okay? Here's what I want you do. I want you to you go to Zipixtoothpics.com today. Get 10% off your first order by using the code Gagnon, G-A-G-N-O-N-N-A-N at checkout. Your lungs will be glad that you did. You must be 21 years old to order, and I just want to say this is a warning. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Zipmore, smoke less with Zipix nicotine toothpicks.

Now let's get back to the show. I mean, it's brutal. It's brutal to go through stuff like that. Do you feel like that affected you at all? Like, that experience, did it make you more cautious going forward? Did it make you a little paranoid? No, I'm the same. He is.

I'm the fucking same. Yeah. It's crazy. I'm the same every day. To experience something like that, to see someone that you love, like, get hit and you get hit, it's fucked up, of course. But you walked away, no PTSD, like, just kind of. No, I'm fine. Wow.

His mood never changes. His mood's always the same. Yeah, always solid. Yeah. Wow. I mean, that's wild. So how are you guys, though? I mean, I'm fascinated, bro.

What an interesting profile. Yeah, like, see, when you're, you don't know anything about, like, certain ways, like, we grew up in South Philly. Like, you're, you're just looking like, this is crazy. Yeah. But it's all good. And then there's all, then you got to look at the good times, too. Like, you know what I mean? Like, just even breaking balls and going to gamble and playing cards all day, like, going

the best places to eat. Break balls all day. Who was the funniest mob guy? Like, who was the funniest guy that, that, that was kind of associated? That was the funniest, the funniest dude. Why are you got to say to mob? He's the funniest friend. Yeah, funniest friend.

That's a good point. We'll edit that out, okay? Who was the funniest guy that you would have? We got some funny ones. Goggles. Yeah, Ralphie Head. We're going to do a podcast with him. He's funny.

Like old gambling stories. Ralphie Head? Yeah, his head's huge. Bold head. Philly got old nicknames. We got a show on Nicknames. Listen, he just texted us, told us he's playing 50 cents to spin right now at the Brigada in Atlantic City.

Think about that. It's 7 a. 7 in the morning. He's playing fucking, he found $100 in his car. Oh, this guy's a beast. 75 years old, still doing it. Yeah, I mean, just for the love of the game.

Yeah. All we did when we were younger is just break balls all fucking day. Like, we used to do it. He did it to me when we played cards. He used to fuck with me. But when I was younger, I used to fuck with the older guys, they used to chase us, beat us up.

Like, you know. Do you remember, like, the worst, like, the worst roast you ever got? Like, was there a guy that would just, like, that would just tear you down, that would just make you be like, oh, shit. There was a lot of bull breaches.

Yeah, a lot of ball burgers. I can't wear this shirt to go play cards because I'm going to get destroyed. They still break my balls. I go out to dinner. They pick on me. Like, it's just fun, though. That's just what it is. You know, it's South Philly.

We have a good time, anything we do. No, we have fun. Every time we go out, dinner. We have fun. We have fun. Who's the punching bag? Who's the guy that gets the most jokes? Probably snitch.

They're like goggles. Goggles. Yeah. Wait, who's got us? Goggles. I don't know. He's funny. Carmen?

Carmen. He's right, Carmen's balls. It's just like, bunch of the guy. How about Joey Batula? Your godson. So his godson, I mean, he tortures him. When he was a kid. Funny.

He lived on Court Street. Jackson Street, his grandmother. Right of course Street. So we had him in a blanket. And we were throwing him up in the area, you know, woo, woo. And Donnie let go of it. And he fucking fell. He hit the fucking ground.

He hit his head. He was fucking dead. I think I fucked him up. Yeah, he's messed up now. He still got something going. You watch an Eagles game with him? He'll take a shirt off. He don't have one dollar bet.

He runs up and down. I watch the championship game by him, man. Yeah, insane. He fucking plays offense, defense, special teams, jumping in the ear. Joe, get the fuck out. You kicked him out. Yeah. At halftime, you let him get to the third quarter.

You got to go. We're big into sports. Yeah, the sports, we'll go. I'll stay home in Florida. We'll cook. We'll watch the game. Everybody come over, drink and eat. But you all got it, wherever we bet for you, got to roof.

for. You can't hurt against. Yeah, you got to go. You ever gotten a real argument over a sports game? Of course. What's the biggest

like yelling argument? Y'all, you ever been in? Whether with each other or was someone else over a game? Not really because Yeah, we're all on the same side

all the time. We had a party one time right before I got locked up. It was Green Bay in Denver. And we had the Gino's, the bar. We were having a Super Bowl party. And we bet Denver.

Denver was like a 12-point underdog. Who was the guy did Brunnenbeck? I don't remember I was even born yeah no it was 98 yeah

I was 5 yeah I remember it's going on stuff and and we had the party there and guys should

come in a bar and I said listen you got it if you ain't bent in Denver don't come in here don't come in here room for fucking

green bay and they didn't there was nobody was all us old devil yeah Denver won the whole yeah

my father was trying to get me to bet green bay he's called me from Jill yeah he picked the fucking winner in 30 years

crazy Denver won out right there were like plus 12 They're 12-prong-round-dog. What was your biggest, like, most heartbreaking sports betting moment? Or the biggest, the most heartbreaking gambling moment. I mean, this Super Bowl is pretty bad, losing like that.

Fucking, I lost, what the fuck was it? Twice with Cleveland, or Denver. Fucking Elway killed me. I got hit with a, I got hit with a safety one time. The game was over. I got hit with a safety, like, with fucking 22nd. That's bad. That's a bad beat.

And what's the name was on the one-yard line going in Cleveland? They handed the ball off. and the guy followed. I thought he scored. I jumped up. No. He fumbled. Fumbled in the end zone.

We lost recently, too. We were all sent up to club. We have like a little clubhouse. And there's got to be 10 of us. We're about to hit a parlay for 80,000. We needed three yards. Instead of running the ball, they threw the ball. We lost.

Twice. He's supposed to run. 80,000 hours. We would have won off a thousand hours. Yeah, a thousand dollar. That's a bad beat. That's brutal. Three yards.

And I picked it. I went six for seven. It was a seven-leg parlay. I picked six winners. The last one lost. You got to drink yourself to sleep after now. Brutal. That's a tough night.

Yeah. Yeah, that's wild. But then we laugh. Ten minutes later, we're laughing. Yeah. I can't. Listen, if I don't bet, I'll only watch the game. I'll watch, but I'll watch, but you got to bet.

But do you like stock market? Like, I feel like the stock market is betting also. Yeah, that's the same thing. It's good, but. It's just last. The game only lasts four hours. Yeah. We need a quick.

Like, quick. Like horses, 60 seconds, you know the winner. Can you tell me the Vegas story? Ah, the armored truck. Yeah. Oh, we took the money to, I was with Gogs. I gotta, we gotta get him on a show me and tell the story. We had like, take me through everything.

Give me all the beats. Well, the fucking idiot, the two rats threw the, well, the one kid, he threw the wrong bag out. And then they blamed me what I was after. We went to Vegas. Me, Barone, the other guy, he told him me, and Goggs. And we had, there was, it was supposed to be five, five million. They were fucking true the wrong bag out. It was only, there was $350,000.

But a lot of, it was mostly 20s. So, so what, what, what is the plan? here like what was the what was the whole situation richie had this guy he said he come to me so listen i got this guy works the arm drives the arm it was no it was no what he called like no guns or not no violence yeah it was fucking inside jill he put the bag out yeah he says you're gonna put a bag out there's five million in it you come with me we'll split it with him it's all right five million ain't nobody getting hurt we ain't doing nothing pick up a bag yeah we go the fucking idiots were the wrong bag out so now we go to vegas i go with richie the two

days later, Gogs comes, we got the money again, we, we, and I was up too. I was up when I first got in.

Then you find out though there was the wrong bag from the news? Didn't they say it on the newsday said. Yeah. It was raining money on I-95 or something,

but the one bag, one bag's missing but the big bag, every car, something about them. That's how I found out there was not $5 million in that bag.

No way. So it was heavy, weighed 100 pounds, but it was all, it was all fucking ones, fives, 20s, 10s. I think there was only

like 50, 20, 30,000, hundreds. The rest was all fucking 20s. Did you go through it at one point? We went to the dice table. Me and Goggs were in Caesars.

That's the best. So we got 20,000 and 20s. You know how many fucking, it's a lot of 20s. So I said, shoot the dice, yeah. So now he throws it on a, we throw it on a table. We told him 540, he crossed, $1,000 on a line. Took him fucking 20 minutes to count the money. What did he say?

So Gog says to me, they said in the paper, the money's marked. You know, that the money was marked. I said, we'll find out soon. He said, what do you mean? I said, if they lock us up with the dice table, it was marked. If not, shoot the dice. And we went broke.

We lost the $20,000. No. Yeah. Bro. Whose role was it, be honest? Was it you or was it? No, it was Gogg's. I don't know.

Yeah, he don't win. Yeah, he's a snake man tick. You got to know, you can't trust God. But the whole bank roll got blown in Vegas, right? Everything got blown. The whole thing. This is how much? 300K?

Sick. Did you ever go up? Did you ever go green on it? I was up. When I first got, it was up like 100. That ain't. Yeah, we just... And then what took you down?

What was it? Send it. Just keep on playing. But which game? Blackjack. Always, no worst game ever. Do you gamble? A little. A little.

I'm not good at it, though. We should try stocks, maybe. Yeah, maybe we'll switch over. At least a much longer. Yeah, crypto stocks. Like, everybody's... Yeah. Yeah, especially down in South Florida.

It's fucking 65,000. Bitcoin, yeah, yes, that, right? It's up now, like crazy. $65,000. Yeah, I got a guy here. If you want to talk crypto, that I don't know. Everybody loves it. I don't even know what it is.

Them kids love it. I might a kid 10 years ago at the beach club. He was trying to get me with crypto or Bitcoin. Yeah, there you go. I said, let me ask you a question. What would you want right now? 10,000 of cash or 10,000 of Bitcoin? He said, Bitcoin all day.

Yeah. I said, how would you not want money? He said, I don't want my one of Bitcoin. He might be right. He was right. It's fucking 65,000 though. Yeah. Pizza delivery drivers, you're all lucky.

He got somebody ordered a pizza like 10 years ago. And he didn't have cash. He said, you take Bitcoin. The guy's like, I don't know what Bitcoin is. He's like, open this app, I'll send it to you. Now it's worth 100 million. Yeah. Like, think about that.

I mean, it's crazy. How does that guy feel that bought a pizza for fucking pizza? It made a hundred million. For 60,000. That's an expensive pizza. Yeah. Well, think about it. Sometimes you catch a break in life like that.

What's your best, like, blackjack advice? Like, don't play. Like, when do you split? You got a split against threes and eights. Yeah, sixes. You know, I just, we play good. they just, I think they cheat. I mean, they probably do.

It's impossible they never bust. Listen, a friend of mine, a friend of mine I had dinner with last week, he's a car counter, and he's sharp. So he was playing at the Har Rock in Florida. Now them, the Indians run, you know, there's nobody overseas.

They do what the fuck they want to do. He was counting cards. Now, he's playing blackjack, six decks. You know, six decks. Yeah. He counted seven four speeds. There's only supposed to be six in her. Yeah.

he said he signed himself out he said he said they they cheat he told the guy count the cards the guy said no we're not doing it oh wow so he even verified he's like yeah i think they cheat how the fuck they never break i mean have you seen some of the ways that like uh i mean allegedly i don't know if any like the big casinos do it but like the way like they'll be able to use a mirror to see oh yeah yeah well look at mickey he exposed them all yeah yeah yeah mickey on tictock the one i sang all the time he exposed them all and that's

why he's banned from every casino yeah He figured out what they're doing. What a fucking sugarhouse in Philly, them motherfuckers. They got caught. They threw me out. They got caught. They said that the cards were getting stuck in the automatic shuffler. Yeah, the card.

Fucking, all face cards were getting stuck. Yeah. Thinking about that. It's crazy. They know, like I said, like they're onto it. They know what's going on. But like the Indian casinos, they make their own rules up. Or even if you go across Congress, like, if you're in, like, Dominican Republic, it's not regulated.

You do whatever they want. You win. They'll kill you. Yeah. I mean, that's impressive to blow three. K in Vegas. I mean, over how many nights was that? A couple. He tells the story.

On the way home, he had a bar $20. My mother, I had take cab home. I left all my clothes in Vegas. I took a cab home to my mother's house. I had no money. I had a bar $20 off my mother. There was no Uber back then. Bro. That's crazy. That's brutal. It's one thing. Like, if you told me you spend it

on meth, I'd be like, yeah? Yeah, it happens. You tell me you spend it on gambling. I'm like, bro, do better. Listen, gambling. I'd never fuck with drugs. Thank God. If I'd ever fuck with drugs. God, if I did, I would have been, I got compulsive disorder. So whatever, I just can't do nothing in moderation. Like, I can't go play one hand, bet for $100. I got to play fucking three hands at $3,000 each.

Yeah. So if I did drugs, I'd been dead 30 years ago. I would have a fucking OD. Yeah, but you also would have some fun nights. Yeah, probably. Well, what was your biggest win when you're at the table? I won a couple hundred thousand a few times. Really?

Yeah. Wow. And was that black check? Yeah, how does that feel? No, it was good, yeah. But I was only holding it. You're only bar and off the casino until you give it back. Yeah, they go back.

As a gamble, you know that. You know they're going to get it back. It's a shame. I'm barred from every casino. Every casino. Well, I'm barred everyone in Atlantic City. Everyone in Florida. Delaware.

Delaware. Any Delaware? Then you go to Delaware and they three out? No, not the way. Oh, Philly. Yeah, Chester. Philly. Philly on barred from.

I mean, I know the one in AC. The one in AC that was an old thing. Yeah, but I was 18 when I got barred. Right, which is you're like, a kid. Youngest person ever to get barred from a casino. Yeah, that's impressive. He's off. Youngish person, that's a record. It was me. I tell you got barred. Me, my father,

Nikki, Salvi, the two-piece shit rats, my uncle and Philip. And what happened? There was like a fight that broke out or something? No, it was no fight. They just sent us a letter from the casino control commission. Undersirables. Yeah. And barred. Damn. And what was that? We fought it. We lost.

Hmm. I wonder Phillips probably allowed back in now. Since he became an informant, They probably had a new identity So you can get in Yeah But I'm just saying I mean

They just barred us For no reason This is everyone undesirables Yeah That's a little wild Listen I can't go I can't go see a show I can't go to dinner in there

Really you can't even go to Yeah I can see if they just bar me from the casino I can't go in the hotel I can't go nowhere Have you tried? No What happens? Yeah one time

Yeah they locked me up for trespassing some fucking shit No way They got face recognition now You walk in they know Oh damn Yeah they lock you up A trespassing

I mean that's brutal Yeah. That's brutal. Can't go to a show. You just brought up your uncle. Was that Lawrence? Yeah. No good rap motherfucker.

Now, this is a guy that flipped. He worked with the feds. Yeah. And some people have pointed out, like, you know, you talk about informants all the time. Right. But then what about your family? What about your uncle? I had something to do it.

So what's your... We didn't condone it. We never talked to him ever. Never went to his wake. I told my cousin when he died. His daughter called her, I called her up from jail. I said, throw him in a fucking trash. What day's trash?

He said, Thursday. It's 12 minute trash. Fuck him. Wow. We just saw him. I never, see, these guys can don't it. So even though he's family, it's like, look, you broke the trust.

I don't, fuck, yeah, he's no good. Wow. No, we had nothing to do with him. There's some of them never talked to him ever since, I think it was 88, whatever. No, when the fuck did it? Yeah, somewhere, right? 89, whatever. Never, never.

And when you got, when you got jammed up either for the, you know, armored truck thing or the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the Rico thing later, was there ever a situation where they came to you and they're like, hey, Merlino, let's work together. We can do something. We can take down these other guys. Did they ever offer you anything? Never. Really? I mean, even if they did, it wouldn't have made a difference, I imagine. No, never. Hmm. But they didn't want to get any other guys or anything. Or they didn't want to try to use you to leverage towards any other friends that you had. Nope. They never came. Interesting.

I would never ever have been attending anyway. I would never go down. Like, they used to, a lot of times in jail, like they tell you, Merle, you got a visit. And you go downstairs at the fucking FBI. And we would always check, like, who is it? What lawyer? I knew if I had a lawyer. They tell you legal, but you go down as fucking two agents there. Interesting.

Yeah, I'm so curious. I'll never go down. If I just say, my lawyer ain't come. I'll know if the lawyer's coming. Yeah. I ain't even going to fuck down. I knew this guy, we were talking about it before, Chickatelli. Chick and Chick-Chicotelli.

So he was running a book in Boston, in Springfield. Yeah, in Springfield. And he got jammed up because. because there was like a guy that he was working with that just flipped on him, that like he had a debt and he couldn't pay it back. And I was like, this just seems like so vulnerable. That like one guy that... Well, they just set you up.

And Chicky wasn't one of these guys that he wasn't like, you know, I wasn't going to do anything to the guy. He just had a debt and he needed to pay it and he didn't pay it. And I was like, hey, I need the money. Like, what's going on? Like, we had a deal. I run the book and you got your team's lost. And the guy ended up flipping.

He went to the feds. He wore a wire. Yeah, you go to jail. And he set a month. They do. They just take your house now. The government does it. Oh, really? Well, think about it's legal. If you order to bank money and you don't pay, they're taking your fucking house.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm curious. If you go to collect it, it's an unlawful debt, you go to jail. Yeah. Yeah, it is interesting. Yeah, you can't do it, but the government can't. Yeah. Well, look, they take their, go to a bank. Don't pay them. I'll take your house in two minutes. You'll be sleeping in this teepee. Yeah, it's true. Look where the interest rates and the government controls everything now. Yeah.

You know, they legalize weed, sports gambling, so they have it all. Everything everybody went to jail for, they do now. Yeah, how do you feel about that? Is that frustrated? I got a friend, Georgia Mortarano. He did 33 years for selling marijuana straight. 33 years. It's crazy. It's legal now.

You're going to fucking... I went this morning before I came here to go buy coffee in the bodega. They saw coffee, pot. Shirts, babies, every one. Yeah, yeah. You could play the lottery. That's another big... That's another big thing.

It's a funnall. The bodega. Yeah, it's crazy. The fucking lottery is the biggest fucking scam ever. In Philly, I don't know if you have it here, but there's slot machines and gas stations in Philly. Oh, yeah, yeah. Casino slot machines.

Yeah. That's crazy. My friends went to Jill for a poker machine. You know, video poker machines are fucking, they're fucking legal. Moussey got 15 years for a fucking poker machine that didn't work. What do you mean? He set up this little poker machine. He had a poker machine in a bar.

It didn't even work. They had the machine backwards. They said, like, facing. Yeah, but you couldn't turn it on. You come play it. And just because he had it. 15 years. 15 fucking years in prison.

Wow. I think he just got out, right? I mean, for, I mean, while, they're fucking, the city's got, the state's got them all over. Listen, the lottery is the biggest scam. Yeah. It's fucking $2 billion. Yeah. They take in $2 billion.

You know what you get, you hit like $300 million. They keep fucking, they keep a billion and a dollar. That's fucking crazy. Yeah, we should look at that. Where's all that money going? They keep it. Can we go to the schools? They may go to the road or something.

They paved their balls. They ain't going nowhere. They're keeping it. Look at the politicians. They're making $100,000 a year in office. Their net worth is $40 million. Hell. Nancy Pelosi.

Yeah, hell. Come on something million. Think about it. You're a hundred-something million dollars, making $200,000 a year. Good at stock picking. Yeah, agree. Yeah, I agree. So all the inside information.

The husband. No, probably not. She's lucky. She's lucky. They know what they're doing. I mean, listen, what do they call them, the lobbyists? They know, like, fucking, you want to pass a drug, things, want to pass the FTA, whatever fuck it is.

Yeah, yeah. They know it's when they get pissed. They go by the fucking stock. Yeah, exactly. And they make fucking millions. millions of dollars. It's always the little things too. I always hear stories where it's like, oh yeah, we're going to buy like road barricades, but we're only going to buy them from one company.

And then that guy happens to be a donor for the politicians. And then he makes, you know, a billion dollars in a year. They're the fucking gangsters. Yeah. That's what it is. I mean, they control the whole world. Yeah. They make a zillion dollars. Yeah, it's interesting.

It really is. You do what you get 30 years. Yeah. But if you run for office, then you get paid to do it. Look at these people The money they make. I know. I mean,

think about how could you make $200,000 a year but when you retire, your net worth is $50 million? Like if anybody has a brain, they look at it and say, yeah, something's wrong here.

So, so no one. He was dead broke. Yeah. They left fucking on to work $500 million. I don't fuck you worth $500 a million. The president only makes $400,000 a year.

Well, you know, you have a little speaking of engagement. And you go give us a speech. Yeah, and you make, you know, $500,000. Hunter Biden's giving speeches for $50,000. How about his paintings at motherfuckercker?

It looks like I painted. Yeah. And he's getting paid. What the fuck with pay? That's fucking painting. It's crazy. He's worth four, is he worth four million or something? Who's this?

Hunter Biden. Yeah, he said he's worth like four million. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, he beat the system. Go for him. I mean, what are you going to do? It's crazy. He played the game.

That's how it goes. It's really crazy. Everyone's playing it in their own way. Yeah. He's going to say he's on drugs. Of course. He's going to go to rehab. Yeah.

What's up guys? We're going to take a break really quick because it's 2024. and it's time to talk about something important. When you are seriously hurt, your injury could be worth millions. Yes, that's right. The world is a crazy place, and one person's negligence can result in another's settlement. And that's why I got to talk to you about Morgan and Morgan. Morgan is America's largest injury law firm.

They have over 100 offices nationwide and over a thousand lawyers. Yes, these are the big boys. You know them, you see them, you see their billboards all over the world. If you ever drove down I-90 from Florida to New York, I'm telling you, you've seen the billboards. All right. Have you ever watched a UFC fight? You've seen them right on the banner. I'm telling you, these are the biggest guys in the game, all right?

With over $20 billion recovered for over 500,000 clients, Morgan and Morgan has a proven track record of fighting to get you full and fair compensation. The annoying thing with most attorneys is that in order to submit a claim, you got to call them up, you've got to talk to their people, you got to go back and forth on emails, you got to hope that they see it. They might charge you just even look at their claim. Here's the cool thing with Morgan and Morgan. With eight clicks or less, you can submit a claim, and one of their licensed attorneys will take a look at it and get back to you. It's that easy. It's like ordering something off Amazon.

It's just a couple clicks. You can submit your claim very easily and cheap. Yeah, how about $0?00. That's how much it costs to submit a claim with Morgan and Morgan. Extremely easy. No fee required. So, if you are ever injured, you can go check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free unless they win.

That's right. Unless they win for you. they fight and get you compensation, you're not paying a single dollar. That's a pretty good deal. So for more information, go to for the people.com slash gagnon. That's correct. F-O-R-the-people. com slash gagnon or dial pound law. That's pound-five-29 from your cell phone. That's for the people, F-O-R-the-people.com slash gag-on or dial pound law, pound-five-29 from your cell phone. This is a paid advertisement. Now let's get back to the show after the short disclaimer. Now I'm curious with knowing this that the legal system is going to try to set you up,

that the feds are going to try to paint you in any way, they're going to get people potentially drug addicts to tell stories about you. Were there any days in court where you're sitting there and you're thinking to yourself, yeah, I'm innocent. I didn't do this. That's the fucked up part. We were innocent. Were you stressed at all?

Like, oh, they're going to try to flip this into something that's not. I mean, they tried, but I mean, not only we beat it, we were innocent. That's why, like, people, oh, how did you win? But fuck, we were innocent. What was it stressful, though? No one... Yeah, I mean, you're facing... Innocent guys go to jail all the time.

Yeah, you're facing all day long. You know, we get convicted, we're done. What was the sentence that you were looking? Life and life. And how old were you at that time? 30 something? 35? 35?

You got kids and you're thinking yourself. I'm about to be in here for the rest of my life. I went away. We're one and two years old. Crazy. The rest of your life. Yeah, me and my co-defense. I mean, everybody, they all had kids.

We all, you know, we just... Our kids are two, three, four, you know. Wow. How stressful was... Life with no parole, never getting out. How stressful were those days? Your paper says, release upon death. Jesus. That's what it says. Scary to look. When you get conveyed, release upon death. Your whole life. Yeah. When he died, they milled your home.

I remember someone I was saying, though... They mill my father home with handcuffs on. No. That's sacking. Yeah. With handcuffs? Yeah, he died and jailed. We went to police off or we picked the, you know, they picked them out. Yeah. Yeah, fucking handcuffs on. I mean, that's distressed. That really is. That's sick. Come on.

Yeah. There was a story, Joe, that they were saying, why I was telling me before, like when you were facing life, like, there's nothing you can do. Then you say, I'm going to take a nap, and then I'll wake up and say, nothing's going to change, like, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. You live or you learn.

Was it stressful sitting in there being like, ah, fuck. I mean, we did our work. I mean, me and my code defense, I mean, we had 6,600 tapes. We listened to every fucking tape. Like, we did our work. You know, we were fighting for our life. Yeah. And we had, listen, we used more tapes against them than they used against us.

We were innocent and we beat the case I mean the juror said what Ralph They interviewed the juror next day She said I don't know why the fucking government We didn't believe one word he said I don't even know why he brought him on Oh wow They didn't believe one word he said

Yeah How does it make you feel seeing guys He got caught in fucking 500 lies Like he just lied Mm Yeah he was a sick guy Is that like Describe that feeling sitting there

Seeing someone that you knew Someone that maybe at one point you trusted That you know Well the worst part about is he's lying too Like you're sitting there like you know, you can't fucking, you want to curse him, you fucking lie a motherfucker.

But you can't, you know, the juror is there, so you just got to... How does that feel sitting there? He's got to keep quiet. The lawyers just keep, you know, keep, I know, it's hard.

It is hard. You know, especially your motherfucker lying. Yeah, that's a lot of, that's a lot of discipline to sit there, listen to somebody got lie on you. Yeah. And, but we, my lawyer fucking killed them.

The jury, they didn't believe, they said, they didn't believe one where he said. Yeah. It's all of them. They didn't believe none of them. Yeah.

How about with JR? When the guy was coming off the stand, he said, I hope you beat him. He's lying. The FBI agent told him, this fucking guy's lying. He said, I get him locked up, the FBI. Wait, take me through that. What happened?

We just did this episode, right at a month, we call it, J.R. Rubio. And he lied so much on the stand that the FBI agent said that Joe, he walking off the stand. I hope you beat this motherfucker. He's lying. He said, I wish you're like. And he meant it, too. Yeah. The informant, JR, he tried to get the agent locked up.

and the other and the other and the girl agent locked up. He was trying to get the FBI locked up. Wow. They know he was no good. He committed nine crimes. If you make a deal, you're not supposed to commit a crime again. He committed nine crimes. They just let him get away with it.

They got a fucking, they got a license. Yeah. I mean, that must be frustrating. Yeah, that must be. I mean, look at that guy and what the fuck's that guy in Boston. Why do you boulder? Why do you boulder? Yeah, why did he go.

Yeah, the fucking FBI was telling him to go kill. I mean, come on. Right. Yeah. with him. It's pretty wild. Enabling crimes. Yeah.

Scary. Yeah. You snuffs over there or go kill him. They kill them. It's fucking sick. Yeah. Yeah.

It's kind of messes with your head. You start to really be skeptical. Yeah. How is it be to be like, all right. I don't know if I can trust these guys. Nobody polices in. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious. Like a regular, like a regular cop they have what they had like the fraternal. They got like somebody. Faternal affairs or something like that.

Like internal affairs or something like that. Yeah. There's like a board. Right. But the FBI got nobody. Who fuck investigates him? I don't think they got no internal affairs. Yeah, that's tough.

Yeah, I don't know if I could handle it. I'd be pretty frustrated. If some guy was lying on me. Like, what was the most disgusting lie he said? Or was there something that he said that you were like, I could reach across his table and just smack you? They just, they said. The house.

Well, we quote him in a lie there. But he just lied. He just lied so fucking, fuck him. Like, he put us in some fucking murders that we didn't do. I mean crazy Not only we beat it We were innocent Yeah

That's the fucking You know what I mean We're innocent And was he putting you at murders of guys Like that you knew That you were like Oh this is my friend And you're saying that I killed my friend

Like that always said yeah They told me they did it They did it He did it It's just nuts The guy Pete the Crum Was the craziest This guy killed fucking 30 people

He needed me to fucking He was old He was like in his 80s He's my lawyer asked him He'd been killing people since the 40s. I wasn't even born yet. My lawyer said, so you needed him to fucking tell you to kill somebody?

Yeah. No, it's just nuts. That's how easy they make it. And what happened to this guy, the crumb? What did he? I don't know, where to fuck you? They probably still, if he's living, he's got to be fucking... 105? He's older than wild with that motherfucker. I got him out and his son out. His son was in jail for drugs. They let him out too. Wow.

So how long was his sentence? How long did he, how long did he spend? I don't think he did time. I don't know. I know he testified in the last case in Philly. I wasn't in the case. He testified when I went back to trial. He can't be living. I don't know.

I don't know where to fuck. I mean, he's got to be. He was fucking 90 back then. Usually all these people are going out of jail. They don't do no time. They bought him houses, cars, give their family. And then they get thrown out of the program for some reason. They all get thrown out of the program.

They all get fucked up. And then some of these guys are going to witness protection. That's what is. The program. They get thrown out there. But then most of them all get, they can't. They all leave. They get thrown out.

Oh, really? Yeah, same in the bowl. He got throwing himself next thing. So if you commit a crime while and witness protection, they say. Oh, wow. But most of them get all thrown out. Not a jerk over, Roger from Philly. He was threatening a girl. This kid from Philly and not a guy ever going to.

They never used them, though. I wish they were, I was waiting for him. They never used them against me. But he was getting life, no parole. And he testified against him and his mother killed. Him and his mother killed somebody. Right? And they blamed us, me and my friends.

And his mother? Yeah, the mother was in. His face. What? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

They blame me and my friends. I didn't even know this motherfucker. I mean, I know him, but I wasn't friendly. What am? I just came home from jail. We didn't know him. He was way younger than us. Wow.

The son happened. He was a drug dealer. The house got home and his sister got tied up. Anyway, him and the mother did it. And they blamed us. They let him go. He did 12 years instead of getting life with no parole. And they were going to use them against us.

They never used them. I wish they would have. I wish we would have killed him on a stand. You know, I had stuff on him. He was dead. And that's how easy it was. And then he went in the firm. He went to program.

He threatened the girl. He was going to smash her head in with a fucking hammer. Yeah. They threw him out, put him, they threw him out of program. They put him back in jail. And now he's still down. He's thinking he's in Atlantic City somewhere. Vettner, Margate, and he's got a sexual harassment thing with a hooker.

Yeah, that was in the paper. Yeah, some with a hooker. Yeah. And the paper puts it right in there. They just do what they want. Wow. So you feel like a lot of these guys. They call up their handler.

They just, it goes away. Wow. But you feel like a lot of them will, eventually do some other thing. Oh, yeah. We're going to do a show. We're going to do a show. I'm working with a lawyer in Tampa Bay.

We're going to do a show on everybody that went into the Woodstock, not only a Tangs, anybody who went in Woodstock and all the, because they changed their names and all, and all the crimes they committed. What do you see this? Yeah, the stats are crazy. Yeah. See, nobody talks about that. They don't know that.

Yeah, I assume that someone goes on witness protection and then they just go away. There was just one motherfucker. I can't think of his name from New York. He went, witness protection. He went to Arizona. He got hooked up with a movie star, like a celebrity. He robbed a country singer. He robbed him for $90 million.

They opened like restaurant. He took all the money. 90 million? Yeah. That's a good look, bro. Yeah. I mean, that's a good look. 80 million, like something crazy.

Like the open franchise, I don't know what the fuck it was. I'm going to get all the information. But that's what they do. They just give the license. That is wild. Now, in my mind, like, I always thought, like, snitching or ratting was like, if you, you know, told any evidence to the state at all, if you were any type of person in society.

Like, I remember even just like, I grew up as a white kid in the suburbs. Like, if I saw something happen, if I told the police, then I would be snitching. Does that fall under your guy's definition of ratting? Like, if you talk to police at all, is that, is that snitching?

Yeah, tell him, it's telling. When you're a kid, tattletale. Yeah. Your mother, your mother ever told you, you know, don't tell on your brother. Yeah, don't tell your sister. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Which is actually a funny rule. Like, I remember snitching on, like, my siblings and stuff. My mom would be like, yo, stop being a pussy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nobody likes them. Come on. Yeah. They don't like themselves. They just, they try to get up there and change.

You know, I change, all that. The change, they changed all right. The change when that motherfucking handcuffs went on. That's when it changed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if anyone talks to police, that's, that's, that's, like, it's not just people that are, you know,

involved in specific relationships. Listen, law-abiding citizens, people do that, you know. Listen, we have witnesses in our case that, that saved us. I mean, the lady, I don't know what was one of the murders. She was waiting for a bus. Of course, Ralph said that we, who do you say? It was Mikey Penknife. So he weighed like 200 pounds, you know.

This lady, two ladies were waiting for a bus when the murder happened. And their statement right there was the beerbelly gunman. The guy had, the guy who was big fat, like 300 pounds that did it. Like a fat, like a big fat guy. This kid was named fat that they blamed, and we showed a picture at my christening. Well, you know, and we made him come in court, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my lawyer asked, he said, oh, that was a year ago.

He said, well, I'm going to show you a picture. And he said, pull the picture up. My daughter's christening. They took pictures. And he was there. He said, that's three days after the murder. Oh, wow. Does he, could he lose fucking eight pounds?

Yeah. In three days? Oh, wow. Yeah, see. They were regular witnesses, and then they told the truth. And we got to quit it. I mean, we didn't do it anyway, but I'm saying we got to quit it. Right.

But it was just a regular person that went up there. Two ladies waiting for a bus. Wow. Did you ever talk to them after? We were you ever like, hey, thanks. Oh, not, no, no. Oh, man. And the jurors, too.

I'd like to get them a Christmas gift. Thank them. Not giving them, you know, I thanked them for. Yeah. I mean, they said they didn't believe nothing they said. Yeah. I had good jurors. I had a good juror in Newark.

I got to quit it. On the sedan number, I got tried twice on the same fucking murder. Really? How was that possible to get tried twice? I still don't know. Yeah. I still don't fucking know. Then you beat them Philly the next day?

I beat it in Philly the next day. They indicted me on the same thing in Newark Federal Court. The next day. So 24 people found him not guilty. 24 jurors acquitted me. Maybe I, the one guy when a raider said, maybe the guy didn't fucking do it. Yeah, like, I didn't do it. Yeah, it's 24 people said.

No, I didn't, we didn't do it. Wow. So there was one full trial. How long did that first one take? The first one was four or five months. Four months. So you're going back in four, four, five. months every day and then the judge says not guilty not the jury or the jury said not guilty and you

go see i fucking told you we we we told them we we lost we told them we lost the gambling and the and receive installing property bullshit and that's what we didn't give a fuck about that but we beat all the serious charge we didn't do it we beat every series charge wow and then the next day then the next day I got to tell you on one of the murders the Sedano murder that I just got acquitted of crazy the next day they charged me in this federal court in Newark and I had to go to trial again And how do you feel that day? I said, fuck. Like, what the fuck?

I just beat it. How many times you got to beat it? They got to win once. We got to win every time. They win once, we get life. And then how long was that second trial? I had to go, I fought double jeopardy. So it was like, I didn't go, I went to Beaumont.

I was doing my time there. And then after I lost the appeal, they sent me back. I went to trial. I lasted about a month, three weeks. And then beat it again. Beat it again. I mean, this is... It's a lot.

Stress. Fucking sick. Oh, my God. Waking up and being like, am I going to get to, you know, pulled in on this again another time? Look. Yeah.

The last supper, look, all his friends. Yeah. Here they go. There goes Ralph. Huck and horse head. Gravity. It's amazing. J.R.

Wow. He broke bread with them. Which one of the... They hung them. Look. The guys... The other... The guys that turned on you.

Which one was the one that was the... the most heartbreaking. Hardbreaking. We weren't, I mean, I knew them. Yeah. But the way they come off, they were best friends. Oh, really? Ralph, I met in Jill.

He was fucking, he's fucking, he's like 20-something years older. He's like, I didn't know that. I didn't know what he was. And you weren't hanging with him afterwards. It's not like there was like the relationship. I didn't fucking hang with him. I mean, you've seen him and he'll fuck home with him. Oh, so when these guys turn on, you don't feel like, oh, how could you?

You're just like, this fucking guy? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this fucking guy. Wow. We were to get out of jail card. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because we got to talk about your amazing dick game.

Yes, you. You right now, listen to my voice, my deep soothing voice. You have an amazing dick game. Or maybe you know someone with an amazing dick game. Maybe you got a boyfriend. Who knows? But if you have an amazing dick game, there's a way that you can make it better. And that's with the good people over at Blue Chew.

Blue Chew is an amazing service that basically delivers a chewable tablet that has the same active ingredients, Viagra, Cialis, all that stuff, but this is the chew. It's at fraction of a cost. And it's never been easier to get your hands

on the greatest dick game of your life. Never been easier. I'm telling you. You can go to bluechew.com and you can submit all your information to a licensed person,

a legit person that will then mail you a discreet, very unassuming, but very, very powerful package. You know what I'm talking about? The powerful package.

To your home. That's how easy it is. You don't got to go talk to a doctor and be like, yeah, you know, I want, no, no, nope, easy. You got to just go on the internet, yo, bluechew.com, I want to get the best dick given of my life. And that's how you do it.

Easy is that. And for the listeners of this show, of this program, you are going to get free first month of Blucho. You were going to be getting Bluechu for free. All you got to do is pay $5 ship, and that's a cup of coffee, black to be delivering that BBC. You know what I'm saying? That's bluechew.com, B-L-H-E-W-W.com.

Use the promo code Gagnon, Gagg, N-O-N, and receive your first month for free. That's bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And thank you so much, Bluchu. I'm telling you, man, check out this product. Even if you're one of these people that's like, I don't know, I don't really need it. What are you talking about? It could be better. It can always be better.

Let's say you're in the 1% and you're about to be in the 0.01% with Bluetooth. Let's get back to the show. And so then how did you feel in the day that you got sentenced, that one, you know, last one, 2001 or so. The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, I got, I got 14 years. My guidelines, we hired a guy that, he was like an ex, ex-probation officer, you know, because they, I should do that the guy lines, the, the probation department. Mm-hmm. And he came back with, my guyline should have been 60 months, 60-something months.

Oh, really? The money gave me 14 years. Well, they give you leadership. They, they got all the enhancements. They just lie. Things keep up in it? Three points for leadership. Three points for that.

Two points. And I got 14 years. I was still, it wasn't bad. Oh, really? I mean, for what we, you know,

I was facing death. Yeah. So, yeah, I had nine years left. Yeah, that quote that you had is funny,

where people are like, yeah, you know, what do you think of sensing? You're like, better than death. Yeah. Yeah.

Which actually, I like the attitude. The attitude is like, yeah. Like, you even had a comment and you're like, yeah, you're going to do.

Listen, nobody wants a beer you, you make the best of it. Yeah. But then the charges they got you on all bullshit. Yeah, it was all bullshit. Yeah. The last case was a real fucking joke.

The one in New York. I mean, in New York. Mm. I played the game when I had to play. The judge won't let me play my tapes. But I would have won it. I got a hung jury. I would have won't have won immediately.

Oh, really? But they won't let me play one of my tapes. We had this kid buried, Rubio. And when you say tapes, what do you mean? He wore a wire on me for fucking three years. Well, a lot of people for years. If you listen to the tapes. You would say I'll represent you.

That's how crazy it is. Listen, I'll go to trial right now tomorrow. I'll represent myself. They let me play my tapes. I'll get it quit it. Wow. The judge wouldn't let me play them. And these are the tapes from his wire?

Him? He's wearing a wire on me. And they wouldn't allow it? No, the judge said it was hearsay. How the fuck's it here's saying? It's crazy. I got him on tape telling 10 people. Not me now.

He's telling you. I don't even know the fucking people he's talking to. Yeah. And they're like, yeah, I'm done here with that kid Joe. How's he doing? He said, man, this fucking kid won't do nothing illegal. I asked him to do it. Listen, told five different people that.

He won't do nothing. He won't do nothing. Can't get him to do nothing? He came to him to do nothing with cigarettes. He said, you know, I got hot cigarette. I don't want him. I said, whoever is getting him is the FBI. No, no, it's my friend from me.

I don't give a fuck who it is. It's the FBI. I told him no about that. He came to me this medical shit. I didn't know what the fuck it was. I ain't about with that. I said, I'll try to help you. He said, it was all legit.

He came to me with gold. well he comes to me one time it's on tape we're at the bar he's like you know a jeweler I said what do you want to buy a watch he said no I got gold what do you mean gold he said I got I get hot gold he said I got it in the and he didn't say hot he said I get it from New York he says I've been doing it with with the this is on tape now he said I've been doing it with Patsy and Buddy which was a lie he was just trying to get me said but it's too there's a little heat over there he said you got a guy down here he said I could bring it bring you nice money. I said, what's the stolen? He was like, yeah. I said, fuck out. I said, I told you

motherfucker, 10 times, I ain't doing nothing illegal. I don't want nothing to do with it. He's like, oh, well, patchy and buddy, I don't give a fuck who did it. I don't want, which they didn't do it. He was just trying to set me up. I don't want nothing to do with it. If it's illegal, I want, I just did 14 fucking years in jail. Leave me to fuck alone. You want to gamble? You want to gamble? You want to smoke cigars? You want to drink? I'm here. Other than that, don't ever mention out of me illegal. And it says it on the tapes. I mean, I couldn't bring them in. Yeah. And you can't bring that in.

I mean, that seems crazy. But if I said something in the gray area, it was let in. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Well, I was all right. The judge hated me. He hated me. I mean, so many guys have worn wires trying to get you.

Listen, I told him 5,000 times. I mean, I had told him over 50 times. I ain't doing nothing to leave me to fuck alone. Like, how many fucking time do you know. Yeah, listen to them all. Have you ever caught a guy wearing a wire while you were talking to him? No. Like, did you ever know while you were talking to someone?

Like, oh, I bet this motherfucker's wired up right now. Prevety said he was in my office one day. it fell out of his leg. I didn't say it. He said he had his leg across. Yeah, he had a fat motherfucker. Yeah, he came out in an interview and said that.

Oh, wow. He put his leg like on the desk, he said. He put his leg crossed the son and fell out. He was another guy. It was a beauty. If it was today, he could never use him. Wait, why? Well, we had, I had tapes of him

telling other people. He wasn't telling us. He was telling him something I don't know who the fuck it was. He used to be a cop. You know, regular Philly police officer. And he's telling him, yeah, when I was a cop, I used to go into black neighborhoods. and throw the blacks down out the window,

two stories, rob them, take all their money. And meanwhile, the fucking, the head U.S. attorney, he knew about it because they,

they had all the tapes. They heard him. He was a black guy. I gotta fucking use this motherfucker. Listen, he, there was a guy he went to, when I first got pinched, the guy reached out

from my lawyer investigator, preventy went to him. This is when he's a fucking informant. I don't know he's an informant. He's on the cover. And he's shaking the guy down. Tell the guy's going to kill him. The guy owed him.

He owed a money. He'll fuck. Him. He shot joints up. They had a license. And he went to this guy. I got to get all the information on it. I think his name was Perna. And the guy got scared.

The guy was an insurance guy. It was a legitimate guy. The guy went to the state police. They said, we can't help you. So then he went to the fucking FBI. They said, we can't help you. The guy moved. He packed this whole family of him, but moved.

Put his house on wheels. So, yeah. He wanted to stay police in the FBI. They said they can't home. This motherfucker. Because he was an informant because he was getting us. Wow. Sick.

Yeah, he was no good that fat motherfucker. He was a fat pig. That's just what he was. He was. He was no good fat pig. Scumbag. Robbed everybody. He's another guy.

Like, he got caught. Like the same thing. Like he makes it, they make it look like Shratwise and Anastasia. Yeah. Like he just walked in. No, he got locked up for extortion. And then that's when he became an informant.

Oh, really? Yeah. They just, he was a real beauty. He was shooting up diners, threatening his girlfriend. Yeah, you can read all about it. Threatening his girlfriend. It's in the public. Real, real violent guy.

Yeah. You had a license. They have a license. Wow. I mean, that's just crazy. I mean, did the feds ever use, like, like, women to be informants? Like, do they ever try to, like, honeypot people? Like, not for you specifically, but have you ever heard of that happening?

Yeah, I heard him using a drug case. They used, I think it was undercover agent. She had sex with the guy. He ain't supposed to have sex or something. I remember reading that. That's the end of that. Years ago. Wow.

It was an undercover. I don't know if she was an agent or an informant, and they ain't supposed to have sex. They had sex with something. It just perks of the job, I guess. It really is. I mean, that's wild. Yeah, the whole informant game is just. Well, that's why really with the podcast, like, you know, he's exposing people for what they did and things like that.

That's why all these other guys that are on YouTube all have his name in the headlines. You know what I mean? I talk about me. I don't even know them. The only person I know that talks about me is full bleeding. Like all these other guys, I never seen them, I never was in jail with them. You never met them. I don't even know.

I never seen them in my life. If they walked in here right now, I wouldn't know what the fuck they are. And they're talking about you because... Every day. I don't know. Because I told about rats, I don't know. Are they talking about you because you talk about them? Well, they're jealous.

They talked about me. I just exposed them. I don't know them. I never taught. Like, listen, I never talked about Franchisi or Sammy to Bull. They started with me. They invited me on their show when I first did the pot. Oh, yeah, I love Joe.

I'm, you're a rat. I never talked about them. then franchisee. I'm not a rat. No, motherfucker, you're a rat. I expose them. So then they got, you know, I guess they got mid.

Oh, wow. But I'm exposed a lot of other motherfuckers, too. Don't worry. Yeah. I mean, how many guys out there do you feel like are, but I don't know none of them. I'm like, they keep more. Our informants, though.

Like how many dudes out that are. We have so many things. You know how many, you know how many confidential informants there are? You don't even know what that is. You'll never know. And so what is that? What is a confidential informant?

They don't have to tell you who it is. you could be one right now. Yeah. They have a list. I want you to know. You're wired right now. I got a wire on you. But I'm saying,

they never have to tell you. Wow. That's a CI, a confidential inform. Then you've got a CW as a cooperative witness. That's one that I wear a tape and get on a stand and testify. But there might be fucking 10 million CIs out there.

Wow. They just call up. What are you here? They just report everything. Yeah, like you ever hear the report to say, our sources say they're getting it from them. Yeah, like they're not a fucking blowjob. Bernstein.

He keeps on talking about me to some fucking idiot on YouTube. And what's the deal? This fucking stories. He should make shit up. Yeah, they make whole lives. I got sources. I got three. I don't know these fucking people.

He don't know nothing about me. And so now you feel like- Well, Philly and Eddie's his man. Oh, yeah, he's his best friend. Yeah, because he wrote a book with him. Yeah. They're fucking idiots. But they got to talk about me.

If they don't talk about me, nobody goes, who the fucks don't watch the channel? Yeah. Like we went to Peter Lugers last night for dinner. It will be all over YouTube by tomorrow. They'll post videos about it, that he went to Peter Lugers. They're sick. They just put his name. We could go eat anywhere.

What's wrong going to Peter Lugers? They can't go to Peter Lugers. They're jealous. Oh, wow. Yeah. We went to the Super Bowl. They can't come back in their neighborhood. People don't want them.

I'm not saying they're going to come back and somebody's going to kill them. They just people don't, they would spit on them. Like, ladies, everybody, they don't want them in their neighborhood. I go, mind, I go anywhere in South Philly. I go anywhere in New York, anywhere in Florida. I go anywhere. Hmm. Yeah, this is very, very interesting.

I'm curious. Why would someone, yeah, I guess the state wanting to get you, they're just going to be like, hey, just say, say whatever. Say whatever. You were talking a little bit before, by the way. I asked if there were any, like, you know, gay guys that were maybe affiliated with, like, different, you know, mafia families or. Gay? Yeah. I'm trying to, I'm getting some information now. I think Sammy the bull might have been gay. Really? Yeah, I went out. I'll let you know. And where would that come from? Like, how would. I can't reveal my sources yet. We're working on it. Breaking news. That's fair. That's fair. Yeah, I'll let you know. Wow. Not a big deal.

It's not like we don't like gay people. It's nothing to do with that. Yeah. It's just it is what it is. Yeah, it's interesting. And he's never, he's never been forthcoming about any of those conversations. He killed a 16-year-old kid for no reason. Nobody knows about that.

Really? Kill the kid, 16. You don't talk about that. I mean, that's pretty rough. Innocent fucking kid, yeah. Nice. Yeah. Poor kids' family.

A lot of them shows all say, now they do it for the kids. They don't give nothing to anyone. They literally, they're in it for the money. You know what I mean? We came out with a podcast. It was a good idea and we just rolled with it. Like, you see the sports, the food, this, that. You know, they do it for all the reasons.

Yeah. They talk about the same shit for fucking, nobody wants to hear about the fucking same story 30 years. Do something that we do shit differently. We're going to cook. We're going to do it all. Yeah, we go out. We were at the Super Bowl.

Like, we do the golf events. Golfing. We do it all. How were snitches treated on the inside in prison? Not a key. I mean, in a low, in the low, the whole place is snitching and shop. But in the penitentiary, there's none.

Oh, really? That you know of, no. You got to show your paperwork soon as you come in. If you're a snitch, you're getting smashed. That's that. No fucking if-ends. No, I know this guy. You ain't got your paperwork.

Woman beaters, pedophiles. Pedophiles, snitch is done. Really? Did you ever see anything like that? Like, see a guy come in, paperwork kind of look a little funny and then. Smash, done. Done. Done.

None to talk about. Really? Yeah. They can never, like, all these guys talk all that shit. They could never go to a... Yeah, they go to low and a medium. I mean, a medium you're going to see by medium of stabbing or something,

but in the penitentiary, they can never come on a compound. Wow. And the spot that you were at was in Indiana. It was a Max? Tara hot, yeah. That was a fucking... It was called a CM communications management.

CMU unit. Fucking, like a, fucking... It's all terrorists in there. Like 35 terrorists. Crazy. Wow. That's why I got released from. My last two years, my year and a half, they sent me there.

Any guys you were in prison with that you were like, not that you necessarily talked to or had relations with, but anyone that you were like, whoa, this guy's in here? Like, was there anyone that shocked you or that you thought was like? No, a lot of them were in the CMU unit, a lot of them were like supporting terrorism, like shit like that. Anyone that you were familiar with? You just heard. John Walker Lim was with us. Who's that? He's the one when we invaded it.

Afghanistan. He fought for, he was American fighting for the Taliban. So fuck I know. Some of the Taliban. Oh, really?

Yeah, he was in there. Oh, wow. But the rest of him were all like a lot was supporting terrorism. This fucking one guy

was with me, right? All he did was cry all day. Right? This one terrorist. What? He said, I can't believe

I'm in here. Right? I said, me neither. I'm here for stolen property and fucking in gambling. Yeah.

So one day, he shows me his photo album. He's got a picture the motherfucker he's in the mountains with bin laden i said now you wonder why you're fucking here yeah i mean a fucking pitcher with ben latin yeah no way yeah i mean these are the guys that you were around that you were locked up with i mean that's in the last two years but all before that i was in a penitentiary i mean none of them they can talk all they want i don't go to fuck where they say they were records aisle and this one they can never never

ever go to federal penitentiary wow were you ever putting the put in the hole put in solitary yeah a lot oh really just for bullshit. They just to fuck with me and shit. Oh, really? Yeah, but yeah. But they wouldn't even let him on a compound. What was the longest time you spent in solitary? Almost a year.

A year? That's wild. And what was it for? Would you mind sharing? They said we're on the investigation. I still don't know what the fuck I was in there for. Then they sent me to the fucking, where they sent me? I was in Marion. They sent me to fucking CMA unit, wherever the fuck it is. They don't have to tell you anything. You just go. On their investigation.

Investigation for what? They didn't tell us. Wow. Now, I've heard that when you're in solitary, your mind starts to go a little bit. After three, four months, you kind of start to go a little crazy. You're not seeing people. You're not sleeping properly. Listen, lock yourself in your bathroom.

Yeah, fuck that. That's it, bro. That's it. You don't fucking, the food comes through the door. And what did you do to stay? There's no phone. You get one phone call. How did you stay sharp?

What did you do to stay solid? Red. You read books. I did puzzle. The Sudukas. I used to be hooked on him. Oh, really? Really?

Yes, those docos are good. I guess you have to pass time, right? Yeah, you got to pass time. Work out. The guys I talk to

is like, it's not even only passing time. It's like keeping your brain from literally just going. Yeah. Like, if you're not activating your mind reading stuff,

like your brain will just, you go crazy. How about these fucking, Joey Moran got the guys out? They'll fucking death row for fucking 30, 40 years. They're innocent. Death row?

Yeah, you're in a fucking, yeah, you're in a hole. Picture being on death row for fucking 40 years. Completely innocent. Innocent, let them out.

Wow. Wow. You can't be fucked up. That's fucked. You're sitting there at 40 waiting to die. Yeah. I mean, your brain can't recover from that real quick. Yeah.

You know what I mean? And then even if they let you out, it's been you lose a quarter of your life, half your life. And you're never the same. Yeah. And you miss your kids. You miss so much. Yeah. You got an ash tray here.

Can I smoke a cigarette? Absolutely, please. You're smoking everything in there. He's got fucking. What do you call? Babagna. Bambia. Yeah.

What do you smoke? What's the? Marble reds. I quit. I started back. Yeah, you picked these up while you were, or you were jammed up or what?

No, I quit when I was away. Really? You quit when you were away? Why is that? I'm fucking institutionalized, I guess. I don't know. I fucking quit in jail. Come out here and smoke.

Yeah. Came out a six-pack. He was ready to go. The exact opposite of every prisoner. I got to quit again, though. Yeah? I'm starting out. We're going to do a workout video of him.

Not me. I ain't working out. I'm fucking. Yeah. I have no interest. You're not going to get this guy in shape. No. He get a six-pack.

Oh, he's empty. That's what I'll do first, then maybe get a little six-back. You got to see, what you do is eat. Oh, really? I love to eat. Listen, I don't drink, so I like eating. You know what I mean? Parmesan.

Yeah, I love it. They eat everything. Lobster fray and cheese. Soup to nuts. We, listen, we're like, I'm like a kid, so breakfast, lunch, down, I have to eat three meals. Yeah. Yeah, I like it. Every time.

Every time. But what's your snack of choice? Be honest. When you're really going to go for. Yeah, and you're like, y'all, I'm really going to go for it. Probably tasty cakes. Yeah, probably tasty cakes. Yeah.

I'm in Philly. You got tasty cakes here? No, I don't think so. Yeah, and the bodega is. They sell them. I just like how happy it made them. Yeah, we loves it. Yeah.

Look at how happy is, right. Yeah, it's good. Ice cream now. You said how he smiled? Yeah. Well, I want to get it. Before we leave today. He's on the night.

Oh, I am. Before we leave, we got a nice little bagel. Then for lunch, we'll probably be back in Philly. We'll get a nice little hoagy or sandwich. And then dinner we'll probably wind up at the saloon again. We've got to invite you to fill. You were just there, right? Yeah, I know.

I really wish you guys to know. You should have came. But you guys are going to come out to the show when we're in Florida. Yeah, yeah. That'll be fun. Yeah, we definitely will. The way he got happy about the tasty cakes is how you said you sound when you get said you want to. Food in New York, Philly.

Like, Philly, of course I'm from here. Like we have great food. New York has great. Even in Florida where he lives, great restaurants and stuff. That's what we enjoy breaking balls, going to dinner, laughing. Who was the best chef in prison? What was the best food you had? Fat Angelo was good.

Angela Lutz. He was good. Jared of Jew. He was real good. See, everybody has a nickname. Jared the Jew. Jerry Jerry Jee. He was a good cook. He was just had that fucking microwave for fucking hours. They did an episode. He showed how to cook a grilled cheese and how to make pasta in prison.

How do you do it? How do you make a proper prison grilled cheese? On an iron. You know, iron, iron to close with? Yeah. Right on there. Oh, wow. Yeah, he was, Jerry Dio was a real good cook. What's the name was a good cook? Mad Dog, Anthony. I see. There was a lot of good cooks.

Yeah. What was the, like the currency in prison? Stamps. It was stamps. First cigarettes, then they stopped the cigarettes. And so stamps get you, you buy whatever you want, right? Yeah, stamps, yeah. Oh, wow. So stamps was just the way that people would buy stuff.

Yeah. Did you ever get in fights or did anyone ever try to fight you? Nothing like that? Mind your business. You conduct yourself like a man. You don't fuck with drugs. You're fine. And what was your cellmate like?

Were there any people that you were you were bunked up with that you liked that you thought were good guys? Yeah. Who were some of the people? I had a good kid at myself, Coacho. He was with me for six years. The little Mexican kid, funny. I should have learned Spanish. I taught him English.

Oh, really? Really? Well, he didn't out of talk. Yeah. He was funny. Is that the one that showed his paperwork when he was on the bunk? No, no. That's a good one.

Tell me that one. What happened there? Cocho was a good kid. I don't know where the fuck he's at. He'd be back in Mexico. They had to send him back. Probably. No, definitely.

He has so many people who reach out them from jail. Like, it's crazy. Yeah. Like, people that he was away with. people who just came out, you know, it's crazy. No, he was a good kid, Coacho. And so what was Coach's deal? What was he allegedly in there for?

And, like, what was the... He didn't even speak English. I read his paperwork. You should have seen it. The guy said to them, oh, you're selling drugs or whatever. Yeah. And the guy's like, you got crack.

He's wearing a wire on him, you know? He's like, I got everything. He didn't even know what the fun crack was. Yeah, yeah. But they wanted to get in the crack was you get... You get him most time. You get 20 years. They get him 20 fucking years.

Damn. If it was the regular powder, it would only have been like, whatever, five years. The crack was five times more. That's what they did. They went after like the Spanish, the blacks with the crack.

Biden passed it. And now he's talking all that shit, prison reformed. Motherfucker, you don't want to piss the law with the crack. Yeah, white people do coke. And we're going to criminalize the one

and the brown guys are done. The white people that don't give a fuck. They wanted to bury it the blacks and the Spanish. That's crazy. He came up this fucking crack shit. And so that was your sellmate. He got, the guy asked him.

Listen, he didn't even speak English. The guy said, you got crack. He said, Cocho got everything. He don't know. Yeah, yeah. You got fucking 20 years. That's crazy.

Damn. You should have learned Spanish from it. Listen, Mike. Josianigweed had a case one time. He beat it. The girl, it was a girl and a guy. The agent went to the house to sell them Coke. Like powder, whatever the fuck it was.

And the agent, they made the deal. And the agent said, you got a microwave. I want to cook this. I guess make crack out of it so to get them more time. Wow. And they said, yeah. And they picked them for the crap. I think they beat it.

But the agent did it. Yeah. I don't know if it was an agent or a rat or a foreman. But they issue got a market. She's like, yeah. And they cooked it. That's wild. And they charged him a crack.

But I think he won the case. I mean, that's crazy. Yeah, it's not. Like if my wife says, hey, can I make you dinner? I say, yes. I didn't make dinner. Right. If I try to take credit for that, my wife will get pissed at me.

I didn't do with it. Yeah. Listen, there's a guy who's got buried with that. Mostly black and Spanish. They fucking buried. They got fucking 30, 40 years for fucking that much. Like, it's not even... And they don't have good lawyers.

They don't have the money or resources, you know? They don't even speak in English. They don't even speak in English. No, fucking poor people are fucking rotten and jailful. Yeah, of course. Well, that's always how it is. The poor people are going to get fucked up by the laws and the rich people are going to be able to do the same crimes.

There's no problems. Look at him. Yeah. Look at that motherfuckers. They never got nothing. His whole thing is crazy. The poor girl. Well, I'm saying, that's the only one that got pinched.

Yeah. She got 20 years. I don't mean, poor girl, but I'm saying. Yeah, she's still there. All the other people, they were all involved with them. You don't hear a fucking name. You don't hear Pete. Meanwhile, Trump's got four cases.

Yeah, so it's pretty wild. It's fucking nuts. And the guys that you hung with in prison, was it a lot of, like, Italian guys, or was it just any, anyone that you were cool with? I was never close, so they always sent, I was far. They sent me to Texas, Indiana, Kentucky. No. People used to write me.

Any Italians there? I'm like, no. I said, nine of them put me here. Fuck, I can go back. Nine of the Italians, put me here. I'm what I'm fucking, fucking Tangians for. Yeah, maybe hanging with the French or something. Guys, you know, you got guys from Philly there, you know, like, you're homies, you know, from Philly.

It was good. Nice crew we cook, work out together. Good card games? Oh, yeah, cards, play everything. Fucking dice, fucking poker, gin. Really? Yeah, everything. Some of those prison card games must have been pretty fun.

Oh, they're fun. We have a good time. A lot of laughs. Softball. I mean, it sounds like a country club, the way... You got to adapt, like he says. You have to adapt to that. I mean, the camps in all are country clubs.

Like, you know, like, you heard the things years like a club fed. Like, you go to the fucking camp. You know, that's a country country. It's like being in a fucking booger resort. Yeah. Not a penitentiary, ain't no motherfuck country club. There's a lot of fucked up things. You see, you see crime.

You see people get killed and shit. Did you see anything really crazy while you were in prison? You were like... Rites. Fucking nuts. Oh, really? Yeah. What happened on a riot day?

It was a fucking riot. They're fucking, listen, the days to come out shooting, they had towers. They shoot the fucking gun. We got to lay on the ground. That's wild. I mean, that's brutal. Yeah. No, they don't fuck around over there.

There ain't no fucking around. Was there anything in prison that you enjoyed or that you missed it all, that you think back on you're like, oh, wow, that was, there was something about the structure that was kind of nice or the camarader. Was there anything at all? No. I mean, you don't miss it. No. I don't want to go there. Yeah.

I'd heard for some people that, like, they would go in and then they leave and they're like, oh, man, I miss the structure. I miss having the routine. Well, some guys are fucked, you know, been in a long time. They're fucked up. I watched the video. Somebody who sent me a video of a guy, the warden came and got him, he said, I don't want to go home. Yeah.

Some people were scared. They ain't got nowhere to go. Yeah. Listen, you got on the stand. You got a guy doing, say he's in there for 30 years. They lost their mother, their father, their grand. They got no family. You got nowhere to fucking go.

They got them. Can't get a job. Can't get a job. You can't get a job. They never get a visit. It's fucked up. Yeah. I mean, the child molesters is they get everything.

What do you mean? Well, they love them. They protect them, the child molesters. Like the status. Listen, if I go right now somewhere in a development in Florida, say, I want to move here, once they Google me, I'm dead. I can't. But if you're a child molester, they've got to rent to you.

You're going to tell me this fucking ain't shit ain't fucked up? As long as you ain't near school. Wow. Yeah, I mean, that's fucked. Like, they got you on stolen property. I'd rather have a guy that's got stolen property than a fucking. Kids and child molester. I'm going to do a show about them motherfuckers, too.

Wow. Yeah, long as it ain't near a school. We got so much content to come. We got so much good stuff that we're going to do. We've got to get you on our show. Yeah, let's do it. Come to Boka. We got a great studio out there.

It's going to be fun. Yeah, we'll do it in a studio. Are there any stories about this guy that you really like that? Well, I mean, they're all interesting to me. You know what I mean? But my favorite stories are just when we're all together and we're breaking balls and laughing, you know what I mean? And just hearing like, you know, back then it was different. You know, like, even the clubs that they went and the fun that they had, my generation, we didn't have that.

You know what I mean? Like, now everybody sits in a bar, nobody gets dressed up anymore. Like, I was more interested. Like, he's a great dresser. Like, all his generation, they dressed to the nines. His father's generation. My grandfather died, he was still wearing a suit. Yeah, they were suits.

You know, so I like that stuff, you know what I mean? But all his stories are great. When I'm listening to them, I'm really listening to the stories. We got to invite you down to the hangout. I would love that. Next year, we would never see no way. When a football game's on an ego, everybody's betting. But I'm going to talk some shit.

I don't want to get in trouble. Okay. I'm going to bust balls with it. Yeah, of course. No, we fucking torture each other. Listen, the last time we all watched the game, he had a guy selling light bulbs, a guy selling Viagra,

people were running out, who's getting mad at who. I mean, it was bizarre. No, it's like, listen, they put a camera and be the best fucking reality show ever. I mean, he might need to. Like, see, real world,

that's what that needs to be. Like, all fucking nuts. Yeah, you might need to. The sword at nuts. Ever seen a box of chocolate, all nuts? Yeah, yeah. All nuts.

Is there a story that he's told you that is like the funniest one that sticks out where you're like, oh, dude, maybe even something you guys talked about on the pod. I mean, probably the funniest one is the Vegas story to me, like with the armored truck. Like, that's crazy.

You're not going to make God come on and tell you that story. Like, not enough money to get home to borrow $20 hours. That happens to me all the time leaving the casino. I got money to eat. No way. So, yeah, it's real life. Yeah. Who's the biggest degenerate gamble you ever met?

One of the guys in the crew were like, yo, this guy, give him $100, he'll come back with minus $1,000. I mean, I don't know. Probably everybody. We're all gamblers. You know, it's what we do. You ever done something crazy, like, pawing to watch to get some cash? Yeah, I'm pulling this right now when I leave. I don't get it to fuck.

What do you mean? I used to go to Carver Reed. Yeah, see you later. Well, you got to go. Carver Reed. It's a pawn shop. So what would you do? I got buried when the Flyers lost to Detroit and the Red Wings in the Stanley Cup.

Here you go. I fucking Hawk three watches. See? Listen, I grew up watching my father. Like, my father the other day, he was in the casino for literally 24 hours. His father is a slender. Yeah, like, I grew up like at eight, seven, eight years old. Like, my father didn't bring me to Disney,

rather you brought me to Tenth or Carpenter to the hangout, watched them play cards. Oh, wow. Like, so I grew up in that. Thanksgiving, we used to go, like, they had, back then they had two football games. Well, Detroit was always on, like, I'm talking about when we were a kid.

And my father's like, root for Detroit, you got $10. Yeah. I'm fucking root my balls off. Same thing. $10 is a fucking lot of money. I mean, it's. I'm fucking like seven. They don't fucking $10 is?

Yeah. But, I mean, it's like having a bet on a game. It's so, your family's so obsessed with it. Your father even made you a jockey. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, that to me is like the funniest story of all. Yeah, they send me down a track.

Like your dad's like, you know what? I love watching horse racing. Yeah. And I want to spend more time with my kid. Listen, he used to come to the fucking track and I tell him like the horse didn't have a shot. Yeah, he still bet it. And he still bet it. Yeah.

Fuck, I told you that don't bet the fucking horse. That's crazy. But when your dad, your dad would fucking cursing me for it. I told you don't bet him. Would your dad bet on you? Yeah. And you knew you weren't going to win. I would tell him like the horse didn't have a shot.

You know, I quit it. Crazy. And he still bet it. Horses are the best. And then curse me. Wait, what is the obsession with horse, horse bedet? It's fast. It's fast action.

Yeah. Especially now. I mean, years ago, they have, years ago, was one track. Yeah. You got to wait an hour between, like 30, 40 minutes between races. Now they got fucking, there's a race going on from fucking Philly, another one from Florida, another one from New York. And it's a nice sport. You go watch it, you could enjoy, you could sit outside.

And the horses, you know, they're beautiful. Beautiful. At first bet I ever made was on a horse. Oh, really? Yeah. I used to love going around the hang. You have to see everybody there because they always give me $20, $50 bills. You know how big that is as a kid?

Yeah. You know what I mean? That's why I wanted to go around there. Massive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy.

What about Greyhounds? You ever see Greyhound? I went to Palm Beach. Me and Donnie, over 16. No way. We bet 16 races. Over 16. I mean, that's hard to do.

I don't even run on a bat. Yeah. Just pick a dog and that's it. You ever see, you ever see High Lie? You ever? What's that? This is popular? where I grew up.

So there was a dog track. Highlight's big in Miami. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So there was a dog track where I grew up and that was like the big, like everyone would go and then they added Highline

to like the same facility. So it was dog track and Highline. And Highline is like this old Spanish game where you basically have like these giant things and you're whipping this ball and people would just go and they would run numbers. That's easy. Yeah.

The dog's hard. The dog can't talk. The dog can't talk. Yeah, yeah. You can't wake up and ask the dog. How you feel today? You're going to win? Yeah.

You might have a headache. Yeah, you don't know. That's crazy. We're women allowed into the club? Like we're wives and girlfriends allowed to come hang out? No. No, that's weird. It was just old guys.

That's kind of nice. Yeah. That's a little nice. Listen, when you want to get out of your house and you know, you want time away from, you know, just say your wife or whatever, you're a widder for six-day street. You go to hangout. You just sit there all day and break the house. The girls don't want to go there. Everybody's smoking a cigarette, a cigar.

Screaming. Yeah. Fucking screaming. You need a fucking, you can't even see it. You can't even see to fucking smoke. Yeah. My wife says to me, don't you got anywhere to go. Go.

Go to casino. Yeah. It's cool to have those spaces like it's dudes to be able to like, yeah, let's hang out, bust balls, talk shit. That's the best part. Yeah, I feel like we don't have that as much anymore. It's nice to have like a club. The world's changed. Yeah.

There's no more to social clubs or nothing. My friends, they don't go. Like, I'm the only one at my age like that goes to social clubs. Like they're not, they don't exist no more. Why not? Why do you think that it's faded away? Because nobody comes out in our house. Everybody sits in and plays video games.

They're all fat. listen, I play cards from I'm seven years old. Like, they don't even have to play cards. They don't have to shuffle. Yeah, nothing. They don't know to play. If you tell a kid right now you want to play a game of gin, they would have no idea what you're talking about.

Yeah. You know what I mean? It's just different. Yeah. Years ago, we played everything. Sports outside, half ball, handball, a kickball. Do you have kids? No, no kids.

No? When you have kids, you think you'll teach them like, yo, this is how we play cards? This is how you lose. I think that it's just going to happen. Like, I don't think that I'll have to teach them. You know, you're like, my father really didn't have to teach me. It was just like.

We were around it. Yeah, I was around it. My wife. Yeah. That's just what it is. It's just what it is. You know what my mom didn't, of course, want me to be around it, but, you know, it just is what it is. And when you guys are playing together, everyone's betting actual money.

I bet against my father and my uncle. I'm playing against my father and uncle. They're sitting right there in a poker game. And it's like, it gets legit competitive. You guys are really trying to go out of each other. Well, think about, I beat him for $10,000 later that night. I'm out to dinner paying for everybody's dinner with your money. Yeah.

You know what I mean? That makes sense So it's still all communal It's like hey we're gonna play together And we're gonna go eat together The winner's gonna be Yeah we're all friends Yeah but you ever gamble against someone

That you didn't like Probably Yeah And how is it When that guy wins I mean is that Yeah they always win Yeah you see yeah

You see rat's like you just want to take Everything off them Oh wow I mean that would be infuriating Yeah Yeah To lose to a guy that you don't like Yeah

No it happens a lot Because he's the guy Always wins Yeah always wins I mean that's brutal Some guys are lucky. Yeah. Some guys are lucky.

Very lucky. Yeah. Yeah. We got to get you in a game. Bro, let's do it. I don't know how to play gin, though. I've never played. Oh, we'll teach.

It's easy. Very easy. Yeah, you get the hang of it. Yeah. I mean, has it been nice since getting out of prison? And then now living life down to Florida and kind of being out of the game for a little bit? I love it. Yeah.

Golf. I saw on a quote that you said that you were like, I'm no longer involved with any of this crime shit. There's too many rats. That was something I think. that you had said to that effect. Is that true? Or is it? I'm legit.

I live in Florida. Yeah. My family, I golf. I work out. Well, I gotta start working out again. Yeah. Yeah.

But it's nice to be kind of like, you know, separate. Yeah. Leave me to fuck alone. Yeah. Let me chill. Tell my stories, talk my shit.

That's it. Yeah. And trying to get people out of jail, prison reform. Yeah. Working with Joe Morone. Mm-hmm. You got four people out.

Yeah. Hey, we do a lot of stuff for a minute. Another guy's going to get out soon. Yeah. How many's people are in jail? 40 years. Yeah, it's fucked up. That's fucked up.

Yeah. Like, it's fucked up. And innocent. Yeah, I couldn't imagine. I mean, how many, every week there's a new guy. How about you're sitting in fucking jail for 40 fucking year? You know, you didn't do it. Yeah, it's scary.

A new guy gets out. And then you're like, oh, yeah, didn't do anything. Some lady accused him of something 50 years ago and now he's out. One of one kid, he got out. The guy was on death row for 30-something years. The DNA saved him. They didn't have DNA back then. Yeah, yeah, that's crazy.

It wasn't him. They had the DNA. It wasn't him. Wow. I mean, I even wonder about like people on death row. There's probably people that got killed. How many people? What?

100%. Yeah. Dead already. They killed them. That's fucked up. It's crazy. I mean, you never hear their stories because they don't have the resources, you know? Yeah.

It's scary. Yeah. Was it frustrating when you were down in Florida and you've been out and you've been clean, you're not doing anything? And then they try to get you again and jam you up on some other shit. They did with that fucking case in New York. Yeah. But like, how does that feel being like, I'm doing what you guys asked me to do? I'm living a regular life as a good citizen.

And now... They didn't like it. That motherfucker came down and set me... Try to set me up. Yeah. And was this a different guy from back in the day that wanted to get...

I didn't even know him. JR. Wanted to get, like, revenge on you? No, I just met him. I didn't know. I meant him in a bar. Really? You know, he said,

told me, it was nice kid. You know, gambling. Again, you bet. Yeah, I bet. I bet my whole life. Yeah. That's how it started. Yeah.

And, you know, try to get me... Ask me about cigarette. I ain't doing nothing. I just did 14 fucking years, leave me to fuck alone. You want to bet. I'll bet all day long.

I'm a degenerate. You know, you want to drink. I'll go drink. You want to smoke a cigar. But as far as anything illegal, I told him ten times. And he had a successful restaurant during this time. Then he went to Jill and that was it. Yeah, Merlin.

Because it is. Yeah. And it was great. See, that's what happens. Yeah. They don't want to see it be successful. And the restaurant, you're probably even hiring maybe some guys that might have served time. Like, you're helping out people trying to get on their feet.

And then it all gets taken away. You live when you learn. It's all. Yeah, I mean, that's, and then how long was, was that whole process? That was like 2019? I got locked up 2016. I went to trial, when the fuck I go to trial? 18, like two years later, a year and a half later.

Then I got two years. Yeah. And then now. I went to the half, I asked, then COVID hit. We were all fucked up with the COVID, so they put me on house arrest for the rest of the time. Oh, wow. And then now you got no problem. You're not worried about anyone from the past trying to like.

I got no probation. trying to do something, trying to get you jammed up on a charge. I mean, it's not hard to do. I mean, just don't do any crime. I'm saying you could do it. You could go to tomorrow and say, Joey told him what I left. Joey told me on the side. He did this, he did that.

And you got to work it. I mean, that's how fucking easy it is. Yeah. It just must be so frustrating. Yeah, why do you guys keep on trying to bring me into this? I don't know. Yeah. That's why we do.

Hopefully, God spares it's over. Leave me to fuck alone. Yeah. That's why we do the podcast. I'll be 62. Leave me to fuck alone. Yeah. What the fuck I got, 10 years left? Let me die on a beach.

Let me go die on a fucking beach or on a golf course. Yeah. And that's it. Do you get to travel much now? Yeah, I mean, with the pockets, you are. Yeah, wherever. We're living out of suitcases. Yeah, live out of fucking suitcase.

Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, it's cool. And you get to meet cool people. Yeah, we do. We meet a lot of good people. A lot of good people in Vegas. And now that you're sharing your story, there's probably a lot of people that are like, dude, I remember when this trial was on.

Yeah, a lot of people reach out. Are there any interesting people that've reached out recently? We've got a lot of people on here, really. 90% positive we have. 10% negative. Like, you know, you're always going to have haters. Well, you need the haters. Yeah, yeah.

Keep on hating, you motherfuckers. Yeah, keep watching. Yeah, we love it. Yeah, fuck, I don't go fuck what they say. Yeah. I say whatever to fuck they want. Yeah. Talk's cheap.

And there's people that you were even saying from prison that have reached out. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and a lot of people. Yeah, Joe, we let's hang out. Try to do. Yeah. It's all the fuck we do. Yeah.

Yeah, really truth. I mean, it's the truth. I mean, that's cool. Are there any of the guys, like, funny stories of any of the guys that you knew from prison that got out that maybe you linked up with that that stick out of your mind is like, oh, this was a funny, a funny dude, a funny time? Well, you know what it is when they get out and you're out, your own supervisor release, so you can't talk. We can't talk. You go to jail. They violate you.

Me and you can be in itself for 20 years. We get out next week, I can't talk to you. And I ain't fucking fucked up. We had nothing to do with each other while we were. Nothing to do with each other. You're a felon. It's a revolving door. It's how to keep them putting you back in.

I got violated every time. You know what am I going to do? I know a guy fucking 30 years. I say him. I ain't going to say hello to him. Yeah. But what was your job in prison? Did you have to do anything?

No, orderly. Clean it, clean, you know, mop, nothing really. But you were tight with the people that had like, you know, maybe like kitchen access. Yeah, kitchen, yeah. Buy chicken. They can help you out with some things. Yeah, you buy the food. Everybody's hustling.

Yeah. No, we used to buy, well, they had. Well, they had decent commissary. Cookies to cook, rice. You know, it was good. Make the best of it. Yeah, I guess that's the only thing you can. Yeah, that's it.

That's it. Yeah, and there's probably, like, fun games that you're like, yo, I didn't even know this was a thing. Like, like, the ingenuity of people in prison is like, it sounds me. They play the handball. Them guys are good. Oh, really? You got your ass beat?

No, I didn't know. No, they're good. Yeah. Well, that's what they do all day long. Yeah, fucking good. Would you ever bet on games in prison? Yeah, it was been on the saltball games. Every fucking thing.

Yeah. Bet on any fucking thing. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. I mean, so you weren't even playing. You were just like, yeah, let me make some money on this. They're very competitive things. Yeah.

Basketball games. Just betting stands. Yeah, something got good in basketball, too. Look what Bernard Hopkins did in prison. Built a gym. He was a world champion in jail. You know what I mean? So it's competitive.

It's crazy if you think about it. We did Hopkins on our show. Oh, really? Yeah, good guy. How was it? Great guy. Yeah. It's cool.

Good. Got all his marbles. Yeah. He didn't get hit? No. He gives back to the community. Don't forget where he came from. That's cool.

In hindsight, all these people that are kind of like, you know, betrayed you, turned on you. Is there anything you would have done differently? Is there anything you would have done? You're like, man, I wish I... Yeah, I wish I'd never talk to the motherfucker. Yeah. That's my problem. I'm nice to everybody.

It kind of opens you up. You know, I'm not nice. I should be. Get the fuck away from me. Well, that's how I'm going to be now. Leave me to fuck alone. Yeah. Yeah.

It's tough. You don't really know, I guess, if someone's... No, you try to. You know, you're being nice, you know what I mean? But you can't. You can't be nice. Don't pay to be nice. Look what happened.

Yeah. They say nice guy always finishes his last. That's truth. Yeah. So in hindsight, you would have been a little bit more maybe standoffish. Like, I don't need to be buddies with them with these guys. Yeah. That's my new thing.

Leave me to fuck alone. We'll make a shirt with that. Yeah. To the fucking. Leave me to fuck alone. Wow. That's it. Yeah.

Yeah. This is very interesting. Just the whole, the whole ride of all of it. Yeah. Yeah. Are there more stories that you feel like will come out? I know you were saying that there's a lot of stuff that you're planning. Yeah, we got a lot of stuff.

Yeah, we got a lot of big guests coming up. He's got a lot more stories. Yeah, we got a lot of shit. Yeah. Yeah, you'll say, stay tuned. Yeah. Some more, I guess, quote unquote, rats that are we got them. Patreon.

You can never, you can never get fucking, there's too many of them every day. What about, uh, someone that people accuse all the time, Takashi 6-9. Are you familiar this guy? Yeah, he's a fucking rat, too. And yeah. I mean, he's legit. Yeah. from New York. He worked in a bodega.

Look at that. He worked in a bodega. Somebody found him, gave him a whole career, made him millions of dollars, and then he ratted on everybody to get out of jail. Think about it. Yeah. Yeah, he's a piece of shit. Yep. Yeah. Now, is there any justification ever for ratting? If there's someone that's like, hey, you know, these guys all,

like, they killed my whole family, they did all this terrible shit to me, and the state says if I just, if I snitch on one guy, they'll let me free, but I got life in prison. Is there ever a justification where you're like, all right, I can see it? Like is there ever Really?

No, I mean, it's Nothing to do it. No, nothing to do it. I mean, that's solid. Yeah. I don't know if I could be solid like that, bro. I'll be honest. If I'm standing there and it's like

these guys killed my family and they're saying, hey, just... You'll stand up like a wet napkin. In different situations. You know what I mean? I'm not built for it. No, I'm good. At least you're honest.

Yeah, no, I'm not the one. Don't do crime with me. I ain't doing nothing. Don't do crime with me. I'm not the one. Yeah. I don't know. It just seems.

a yeah I guess you need to have a mentality where it's like you know if one of if you're one of those types of people that's involved and stuff like that uh you know it's like hey we're there's there's a code there's a code of honor there's a code of trust you know well people don't need to get involved with thing like Takashi 69 you were a rapper like you didn't need to do anything extra you were doing i mean you got look at look at like what the rappers got guns they're showing guns they're shooting off guns you're going to go to jail yeah it's not like you're saying you're doing a podcast you're shooting guns on the street. You're going to get in trouble.

You don't need to do that. You're already a millionaire. Yeah. Yeah, what do you think it was? I said, I have no idea. All I know is if we get a check for $10 million, we ain't going outside and shooting guns out today. That's for sure.

That's the worst we're going to do. So I don't know. I don't know. You know what I mean? Especially when you come from nothing, you get that kind of money, you fuck it all up. Yeah. I mean, you must have an alibi for anything they ever try to get you on.

I'd be like, hey, I was at the Borgata this night. I was at Cesar's this. night. I was at the win this night. I had nothing to do it. It's hard to remember though where the fuck you were though. Yeah, we were at the win for in the Super Bowl. It was great. We had a great time. No, like, when I had the case in Atlantic City, at Danishore, with Philly and Eddie's mother when I got locked up with the fucking fight, I took the stay. I got on the stand and I got pitched two years later. And the fucking prosecutor asked me like, where was you that night? Fuck, I said, I don't remember what I ate two nights ago? Yeah.

You know where the fuck you were in? If I'd say, where was you? I don't know. What years is this? 2020. I saw a fuck eye. I know I wasn't in no fight. Yeah. And especially back then, you might not have like your phone, like, pinning you everywhere you are. There was no, we had no cell phones. We never fucking beeper then.

Surveillance camera that's not going to pick him up everywhere. Yeah, now the iPhones and this, you don't find anybody. But at least in that case, you can be like, hey, my phone ping me at this place. Yeah, of course. I'm innocent. I had nothing to do with this. Right. Which I guess helps a little.

Yeah, it helps. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, but back in the day, it's like. No, back in the day, there was nothing. It's just your word. Not there's cameras.

everywhere. Yeah. All over the street, every house. Fucking red lights got cameras. Do you feel like the surveillance is helpful because they can just

prove that innocent people are where they said they were? Yeah, I mean, it can help you. Yeah. I guess it's a double-edged short. Who the fuck knows? Yeah. Yeah, it's very, very interesting.

Is there anything else from the pod or any of the stories you guys want to share before we wrap up? You just got to check out Patreon. Yeah. You know, patrons where you're going to get all the exclusive stuff.

We're going to have all a good shit coming out. Yeah, yeah. That's where we put all our, like, content at that you could see so we don't get you know bans from anywhere else so anything you need is going to be on Patreon the links in all our bios yeah and then

any uh is any book any movie anything anything like that? No just a podcast podcast yeah this guy's just a smart fucking what am a gay just a podcast we're enjoying ourselves we're having a good time we're having a good time yeah and we'll see you in Florida

absolutely man it's gonna be fun thank you so much thanks for having us we really appreciate it yeah this is fun it was good