Camp Gagnon - Pro Surfer on Almost Dying, Fighting Locals, & Surfing The Arctic | Ben Gravy Surfer Podcast

Episode Date: January 30, 2024

Ben Gravy is the novelty wave king. He's on the hunt to surf in the most obscure places on earth, but today he's in the tent to talk about his deadliest wipeout, fighting locals, and surfing in the arctic. WELCOME TO CAMP!Thanks to our sponsors BluechewMorgan & Morganedited and produced by @99OvrAll TIMECODES00:00 Intro01:08 Surfers are cr*ckheads + too much protein07:15 Guilty pleasures08:42 Mark loves boarding + step-offs v purists14:16 What are novelty waves? Surfing in Neb...

Every single server will say it's the most dangerous wave in the world. There have been four deaths at that spot. That's the spot on the North Shore where the lifeguards can't see you. You almost have to experience it to believe it. Essentially what happened is took a wave, kicked out. There was a set behind it. There could be like 20 waves in a set. I took like the first wave of the set, which you're never supposed to do.

Kicked out, bang, next wave hits me, breaks my leash. I didn't have any flotation on, got pulled into the wave, thrown over. Boom. Hold my breath, come up. Another one on the head. I can't get to the surface. So I finally get up, boom. Another one on the head. I'm like, dude, this is...

I gave up and I was so winded, gas. I was like fading black. Essentially, I got stuck in like this 12, 15 wave set. So this happened for like probably five minutes. So this kid breaks his board. I see the nose of his board. I'm like, dude, can I please use that? He's like, yeah, cool.

I grab it. I'm like, finally have flotation. And then this wave hits me, boom, rips the board out from under a day. I'm just like, dude, this is it, boys. This is it. Are you able to explain the obsession and the passion to people that don't surf? Like, what is it about surfing if there's something that could help people understand that maybe have never surf before?

So, yeah. Okay, so surfers are like crackheads. Like, straight up, people will blow off work, lose their job. They will get in fights with their wives. like I don't know about if it goes this far but pretty much like not pick their kids up at school but like make no money like have a job that facilitates them able to surf like

people will go the distance to surf and uh so surfing is a very spiritual thing whether people I don't know if everyone like connects with that aspect of it but I think for the most part that's what people are kind of chasing like a feeling that

you only maybe get the first time or if you up the ante so like the first time I wrote a wave I was like this is me everything makes sense the speed the feeling of floating

like not not being in my body and I was like this is who I'm supposed to be and then my first barrel I was like this is really it like this is really who I'm supposed to be

and then like the first time you do a turn on rail and you can feel the board gliding through the water and you're just it takes you out of your body and I believe you you get rid of anxiety

you get rid of negativity all those worries that you've had in the day because like let's I don't know something like commuting to work like all you do is stress

commuting like when I was commuting here I just thinking about stuff. Yeah. You know? Anxious ruminations. Yeah.

And surfing is something that ridge you of all of that. And I truly believe that that is why it is what it is for people. And yeah, you're right. Like, I'm sure that's funny to look at from an outside perspective. People are obsessed. Too obsessed. And then like, but then this other thing happens where people who don't get to surf a lot we'll just talk about it all the time.

And that's pretty gnarly. What do you mean? Like hearing it. Because people will just be like maybe they don't feed their obsession enough or they don't put the time in to get like the barrel that they want or whatever. So they just talk about it. And then they take it out on whoever's around them being like, oh, I'd love serving. And they're just explaining like, dude, this wave it broke.

And then people are like, what the fuck is wrong with this guy? And then you're hearing about their wave in Costa Rica in 98 when they were, you know. And you're like, well, maybe you should just go back. You know what I mean? But I think a lot of people have that experience where they meet servers and they're like, yo, there's a crackhead addiction. There's a real fucking addiction here. And if you haven't done it or it hasn't hooked you, then it seems weird.

So my wife told me, like, so like when I first met her, she was like not really, she surfed a few times in her life. And then I was like so stoked. Like, oh, dude. And I used to joke around and be like, you're going to be a Roxy girl. She was like a Blue Crush fan and stuff when she was a kid. And. And she's terrified of the water, terrified of sharks, terrified of waves, terrified of everything. And I push her into waves and like a couple of times I've gotten her.

Perfect. And when she surfed at the scoot and pool, she got like the best wave of her life. And I'm just like, how was it? And she's just like, I don't know. Like, I guess I don't get the feeling. Like it's not, I don't get it. It's weird how that happens, right? I'm just like, what do you mean you don't get it?

Isn't that crazy? So this is what's happened with me. Like, I've surfed a handful of times. Like, growing up, I would surf. like foam tops at New Somerina like I would do I did that a lot like my wife actually surfed like a decent amount even before me her dad was a big surfer so like we would go together I would try it I'd get up I would go to scootons pool loved it I would get up but it never hooked me and it's like so weird because like I would ask people I'm like what am I missing my brother surf like nonstop

my brother was obsessed with surfing and I remember asking him like dude what am I missing and he's like yeah it just might not be for you And it was one of the first times in my life where I tried something where I was like, oh, damn, it didn't hook me. But, like, I'm still appreciative of the art of it. But other things have grabbed me. Like stand up. First time I were just stand up, but I was like... Stand up paddobording?

Standup comedy, bro. See, for you, you're just only thinking board terms. You're like, dude, it's paddleboard, right? That's close. But not, like, first time I would stand up, I was like, oh, yeah, this is it. even like working out I was like oh I like this like meditative process of like being in the gym

feeling like tired like that kind of thing I was like that's why you drink like nine power power cores a day despite being the skinniest least strong guy ever I looked at the bottle and I was like it says elite vanilla it's like what about that vanilla is elite no this is one of the most elite

that's actually oh it is 42 grams of protein that was my nickname in high school elite vanilla yeah yeah there's some black kids that would call me that but yeah this is 42 grams, dude. Sponsor me. That's a lot.

Fair life. Yo, come on. How many grams do you need a day? Do you need? Yeah. As a human being. A hundred? No, probably not.

Probably like 40. Well, dude. I'm doing 200 a day. Okay. I don't know if that's good. I don't know. My kidneys are a quagmire right now. I'm in trouble, I think.

But I was just like... Are you regular? I ride goofy. I mean, is that what you mean? No, I'm... My whole shit. is fucked up. My stomach, lower intestine. I don't know. I'm working on it.

Okay, dude, I'm in transition. Too much protein, man. Yeah, maybe. I got to look into that. I don't know. Even not of carbs. I should eat more candy, man. I'm going to work on. Dude, I've been on a diet recently. Really? Yeah, it feels good. Wait, why? Because, dude, I've been working out since April.

And I definitely toned up a little bit, but, like, I didn't get skinny, really. Because I'm, like, working out really hard, but then just eating like a maniac. You know what? I deserve it because I've been working out. Or like I'm about to pass out.

So then. Wow, what's your guilty pleasure? You're like a cookies guy? You're like a, like, what's your sweets? Like, what are you doing? I eat ice cream. I love ice cream. It's so good.

But what are you talking about, though? Like, what kind of... Just chocolate. Anything chocolate in life is... You just go regular straight chalk? Nah. Like, if I have to... But you're not going to go, like, I go to cookies and cream or something.

Coos and cream, okay. Yeah. I don't know. I just like having, like, texture... Like, if I had a death row ice cream. it would be like a Dairy Queen like Blendini or whatever

The Hurricane or whatever And it would be chocolate ice cream With extra Recy peanut butter cups Oh that's actually good See because definitely you need texture I feel like that's important If you just get straight chocolate I'm like are you six years old?

I was talking like desperation Okay You just finished a long workout You're exhausted You just got to crush a pint Don't even Oh dude then I'll just go Ben and Jerry It's like the

Whatever they got Yeah, yeah. Chocolate brownie? Whatever, dude, I don't even care. A mericon dream, you know what I mean? Cherry Garcia? I'll suck down some BJs. I don't know about the cherry Garcia. I thought that one was good.

Yeah, I never tried it, but I never trusted it. Don't hate, bro. I didn't hate on surfing. You know what I mean? I tried it, though. You kind of do, though. I'm like low-key. The thing is, bro, you got to understand. I love every other board sport.

I love snowboarding. I was going to ask you that. I love skateboard. I skated all the time as a kid. Did it hooky, though? Or did you just do it because it's easy to hop out? Skateboarding was the thing closest. And then wakeboarding was close also.

I grew up of Florida. So I would be at OWC. I would wakeboard all the time. My brother would wakeboard. I had friends with boats. Wakeboard with them. I loved wakeboarding. You ever tried like weak surfing?

I did. So like I was scurfed like and that was fun. The thing that I didn't like about surfing and tell me if I'm thinking about this the wrong way, I never got into the Zen meditation. So like I would go out and I would paddle and I'd be like, man, I'm pretty tired from all this.

trying to get past this break right here. Like, this is kind of a lot. And then I'd like try to line up. And I'd be like, okay, the wave's coming. I see it. Paddle, paddle, kick, kick, kick. Get up. And I'd be like, boom, eight seconds, having a great time.

And I'd be like, all right, now what? Okay. I'm trying to figure it out. Because it's like the time expenditure and the energy cost for the thrill. I felt like that ratio was off. That's part of the magic. but that's also why I own a jet ski that would be fun

getting towed into a wave would be really cool I freaking invited Andrew so many times dude really yeah you're welcome to come Jersey but you can tow into waves in Jersey I thought that was like a big wave thing it's called a step off so you don't need big waves and these waves that I'm going to put you in

are going to be big for you like you're going to be like what am I doing but to like Garrett McName Mara or the guys from 100 foot wave, they're not big. But like for us, they're big. They're like as tall as the tent. Like 10 foot? 10 foot face.

Wow. So over your head for sure. Yeah. So you, okay, so I'm driving the jet ski, right? And you're behind me and you're sitting side saddle, both legs on one side, holding your board. So then I'm driving, drive and driving. I come over the back of a wave, 10 footer.

We're looking down it before it even breaks. I go, jump. You jump, you land on your stomach, get in, you're in early, you're already up and riding, and then you pull into the barrel. And like, it's called a step off. It's the best. That sounds sick. Because then once you're on the inside, no paddling, nothing, you go like this, I drive in, pick you up, take you over the white water, back out there. Never miss a set wave, never get caught in a current, never get cold. It's like.

That sounds awesome. It's awesome. Genuinely. I'm like, that's everything I love about weightboarding. I'm like, so you could jump on a wakeboard, like jump the wake a bunch of times, practice some 180s, like, it's constant stimulus. And then you get tired, your legs kind of get sore, you jump on the boat, hang out, crush some Twizzlers, and then run it back in 30 minutes. I guess I could put Twizzlers. If there's Twizzlers involved, I'd be completely down.

That would be sick. There's thick ones that like peel into one. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the flat one, yeah, no, those are fine. But don't give me Red Vines. If it's Red Vines, I'm just like, what are we done? Redvines used to sponsor the NSSA that contest in California No way

So like the beach was just packed with red vines Are you like loyal now Are you brand loyal? No I thought those things were gone I didn't even know they were still around I think they are I don't know Yeah I haven't seen if it's like a publicly traded company or anything I don't know if they're publicly traded or what the deal is

They did all right for themselves because I still remember Yeah right I guess it worked in that name Yeah they killed it But no that sounds fun actually Getting like Doing a step off would actually be really cool Yeah Is that frowned upon

the surf world? It is a little bit. Why? Because people that frown upon it can't afford a jet ski. You don't talk that shit, no, it's there's purists that are like the art of surfing

is putting on a wetsuit, paddling out, fighting the ocean, but then I would say, then why don't you just body surf? If you're a true purist. Take the board out of it. But like, I enjoy paddling. paddle surfing. I enjoy big wave toe surfing, big wave paddle surfing, big wave paddle surfing, step-boss, whatever. For me, it's wide open. I'll do anything. It's as long as I'm enjoying myself.

Yeah, you like being on a wave. But some people are just purists. Yeah. They need to do their ritual, surf a certain way. A lot of people surf the same spot over and over. Only one spot. Which makes sense. Like you were saying before, if this is like a meditative practice for you, Like being in nature, paddling out, like getting kind of lost of the repetitiveness of like getting past a break, getting up, having fun for 20 seconds and then start doing that over and over and over. If that ritual is what you need to kind of like quell your anxiety to feel, you know, like you did something that day to like really feel accomplished to like whatever that grounding is for you, it doesn't matter where you're at. That just matters that you do it all the time.

I think that is what it is for a lot of people. But and then for like me, it's, it's more about, I think I got enough of that when I was younger. Yeah. So for me, it's like, let's find a new wave. Let's find a different type of wave. Let's go on the jet ski today. Let's surf big waves tomorrow. Let's, you know, like keep it exciting.

You like the stimulus. Yeah. I like to keep it exciting. Yeah. And so I feel like, incredibly if I'm wrong, you've like really blown up your vlog and like your show through these like novelty waves. For sure. And can you explain to people what a novelty wave is? So, yeah, so like normal surfing would happen out at your local beach,

a bunch of people out there, you see them floating, normal stuff, whatever. A novelty wave is either a wave that doesn't happen often or is in a location that maybe people wouldn't go and surf because there was this thing in surfing where we'd always be like, oh, look at that. Like, that looks rideable. And, like, we always, like, look at mini waves and we look at maybe a way behind a boat or whatever. And people always looked at these waves.

But then, like, what I did was I just went the extra mile to go surf them. Like, no matter how bullshit they were, no matter how small they were, junk, whatever. So a novelty wave is, like, it's hard to say the Great Lakes now because it's very popular surfing in the Great Lakes, but, like, a lake wave. a wave in a river where you're doing a standing wave, a wave behind a barge or like a ferry, or maybe inside an inlet. And like you look to your left and there's 30 people surfing here,

but then there's this mini wave peeling down the inside of the inlet and there's no one on it. Like that might be a novelty wave. Anything that's different and maybe not, maybe a little obscure and not normal, you know, novelty. Yeah, I like that. Just a little something different. There was a wave.

that I saw I was with my family when I was like a kid we we went to I think it was somewhere in Germany and they had there was a riverway Ikebach I think so yeah yeah yeah and like you go by this bridge very popular and you would just see like this natural it's a river wave yeah standing river wave so can you speak on like that have you have you surf that I haven't oh really but that's an extremely famous thing now okay social media it's crazy social media has changed like surfing so much and the novelty aspect, there's almost like those types of things

like the Munich River Wave or like something new and different is like almost competing with regular surfing because people are interested in seeing this different world, this different side to it. Interesting. I wonder if it's similar like skate culture

where like street skaters will basically like be on the hunt for like spots. Yeah. And be like, oh, these steps outside this bank, I don't think anyone's ever jumped them excuse me but it's like perfect it's like a perfect like little like five step that I could go jump I think the niche is more way more niched in novelty waves or new different waves than street skating but yeah it's the same idea because that's how I am and now I believe there's a culture of people that think like me kind of like we're like dude look at that wave it's perfect

no one would ever surf that but I'm going to go surf it so for you the thrill is twofold it's not only surfing it, which is obviously fun, we've established, like, there's like a meditative, spiritual, like, excitement to jumping on a wave and, like, just going after it. But then there's also the speculation of being like, can you even surf that thing? For sure. For me, personally, absolutely. That's what I chase. That's what I love. I'm more interested, like, I don't know if you saw my Nebraska video, but I went and surfed in a, on Lake McCona, McConaughey, Lake McConaughey in the middle of Nebraska during a windstorm. No one's ever even thought about it, before. And I swear that's my most underrated content I've ever made because like you can't

surf in Nebraska. But like I fully found like a three foot wave in Nebraska because of wind swell fetch coming across the lake. And like for me, I flew to Denver and drove four hours to the lake. Like that is commitment. Yeah, it's insane. People wouldn't even do that travel to guarantee themselves a wave. To go to an actual beach with great waves. So for me, it was like, that's what it's about for me. How do you even find that there's a, what do you call it, a fetch? Fetch, wind fetch. So that's when wind is basically hitting the water.

It's blowing, yeah, and it blows long enough. I think it was 40 hours across in the same direction long enough to create rolling waves. Wow. And then those ways have to find somewhere to break. And then like, there's no buoy information on Lake McConaughey because, No one's ever surfed there. Yeah. So it's just, it was, it was wind finder.

And I was like, okay, 38 miles an hour sustained from the, you know, I think it was the north. For 40 hours, we should be good. No way. Like, why not? So you're literally just looking at like a wind map. Yes, there's this app called windy and you can look. Yeah. And it's like green, yellow, red, purple.

Like purple's the stuff. Yeah. I love this, dude. So that was like a big Bill Nye moment for me. I was like, dude, I can really expand on this. Like this changes everything. When was that wave? 2020, actually.

This is pretty recent. Pretty recent. So I had already finished the 50 states. I had already done so much novelty. But it was like, is there more out there? You know, like I scratched the surface. I went to these ways that kayakers knew about that this guy knew about, this guy DM me, this guy showed me.

But you were never discovering waves. The Nebraska wave was all in my mind. It was imagination. And my friend Dan Setsky, this guy from Colorado, he texted me. He's like, hey, Lake McConaughey is 180 miles long, just putting it out there. And I was like, okay, I can figure this out. So then three years later, we went together and did it. And there was a full wave.

So it was literally a three-year journey. Yeah. of like speculating on whether or not it's even possible. And then like I'm watching windstorms like getting anxiety on my couch like, I should be there. It's yellow right now. I should be there. You've literally done that where you're like, what if I get on a flight?

Like looking at flights being like, if I make it tomorrow, there should still be wind and I can try to get it. Yeah. So and then like picture trying to explain that to your wife. She's like, yo, it's my sister's wedding. You're like, but it's purple on Lake McConaughey right now. I don't know how to explain this to you because you're afraid of the water Now you're getting it

Dude am I getting hooked Oh this is sick Right that's actually really cool So you're literally speculating So wait but you already surfed in Nebraska before I did but it was a wave pool But I literally thought It wasn't possible to surf in Nebraska

So you're like I'm gonna do this kind of like cheat They invited me to go They saw what I was doing And I was like I'll do it I'll count it like Because you did surf in Nebraska Yeah counts It counts.

But you want to be in the ship. So now there's no wave pulls in my 50 states. And like, yeah, I will say I accomplished the 50 states. I did it. I surfed in every state. But there's more for me. Like I have ideas about North Dakota, South Dakota. I have ideas about other states that I'm like,

I can make this more surfing. I can make this better. I can, this can become more than what it is. And like that is, not something for anyone else but myself because, yeah, sure, I'm going to make a vlog of it. It's going to be fun. But like, I don't expect to go surf North Dakota and do it better than I did it before. And people to be like, wow, you know, the new frontier.

For me, it's just like personal. Okay, the wave I surf to North Dakota is okay, but I want it to be like this. Oh, I love it. I want it to be better. That's so cool that you're genuinely like, yeah, people might not give a shit that I surf North Dakota up better than I did before. Yeah. But it's a personal mission that I want to be natural waves in every state.

So that's the Nebraska thing. I was like, dude, I'm not, I'm not happy with that. So we're going to figure this out. Because it's technicality. Yeah. Wow. And are those the states that are generally the toughest to like find novelty waves in? Flat in the middle of the country so far from the ocean.

Yeah. Yeah. Anything with coastline, pretty straightforward. Easy street. Yeah. And then anything with a big lake Like anything on the Great Lakes That's like probably second tier

Yeah And then just flat And then rivers So like mountainous areas have Like Wyoming has great rivers Like Montana has great rivers Gotcha Like yeah there's a couple riverways in Montana

That are probably better than some of the breaking ways Like not better but taller Than some of the breaking ways I counted for Like Connecticut was fun Why? Because it's landlocked Well it's not landlocked It's blocked by Long Island

So I actually had to get south wind blowing South, right? So I had to get wind blowing from essentially like New York City-ish area out through, because like Long Island goes around, you know? And then the Long Island Sound blocks Connecticut from the ocean. So there's no swell coming in. So I had to get South Wind.

And then I went all the way to the end in Connecticut to like not, I think it was like near stoning, I'm not exactly sure. It was a state park, but I went as far as I possibly could so then the fetch could be the biggest and I served. So it was wind swell,

same idea as the lake. Wow. But it's cool. It was like a really, it was a crazy experience because it's like, is this going to work? Yeah.

And then it worked. What about like Rhode Island? Is that like? Rhode Island is just ocean. Ocean. Rhode Island gets great waves, dude. Really? Yeah.

Trying to think of like weird outlier way, like outlier like areas. Like Alaska, obviously on the water. Alaska. Freezing? I surfed. there's a tidal bore in Anchorage. So there's this river called the Turnigan Arm.

And like in the northern parts of our country, the world, I guess it's far away from the equator. So like think about this. Like Hawaii and like the Caribbean have like these very relaxed tides. They're like two feet, one foot. So like if you go from the Caribbean all the way up like Anchorage, Alaska, even Maine and like Canada, northern areas have these like crazy 30 foot, 40 foot tide swings. So essentially all this tide will go in and it'll be a 30 foot difference. Like you can see it on the, if you're in the turnig and arm, which is this river that the tide pulls into and it pulls all the way back into the mountains.

And it's just normal. can't tell it happened over a six hour period so you're just like whatever okay cool there's a goat some mountains we're in alaska yeah and then all the sudden the tide switches and it comes flooding back and that 30 foot difference can create it creates a wave on the front of the tide and it's not a 30 foot wave but the tide difference 30 feet it could be like a four or five foot wave so like we went there and like the white water was just rushing down the river the front of the tide and we caught you have to go out into the middle of the river and just stand there and be like, oh God, like here it

comes the time. Well, you can see it coming. Oh, you can see it coming for minutes and you just stress the whole time. And then and the water's like pretty calm that you're standing. Oh, it's dead calm and then it starts pulling. Starts pulling back towards the, where

it's rushing from. And the current's coming towards you. The wave is coming towards you and the current is pulling you into the wave. Oh, wow. But it's only like this deep. So we were standing knee deep. Here comes the wave. and then it comes and they were saying like

you don't know it could be powerful it could not so I've done this three or four times and the most recent time I did it the wave was way more powerful than the other times so like I was standing there

and I was showing my friend we went on like a boat trip in Alaska and I was like dude we got to hit this I was being Bill Nye I was like we got to hit this on the way to the boat like we're not missing this opportunity so then I brought my friend Blair out into the middle of the turnigan arm and he's like dude what is going on and so this thing hit us and

we were just like boom like dude it like hammered us but then you ride the wave for 10 minutes 15 minutes because it's going down the river it's trying to work its way to the ocean all that tide so we were on the wave carving back and forth like it's going to close out oh it's opening up that way go that way so like 10 minutes riding riding right like dude it's mental it sounds like like in movies, you know when a volcano happens and you ride like the piece of the volcano like down on the magma, but you're just going down the mountain for like an hour? That's what it sounds like. You're literally

in this thing, dodging rocks and shit. It's cool. Cruising through the river. And how fast are you going? 10, 12? It picks up and slows down. You're moving. Yeah, you're moving. That is wild. It probably could get up to like 15 miles and a half. And if you miss it. Oh, you're done.

That's it. Except. What happens if you miss it? So, all right. So like, the first time I went there they told me about this thing it's called getting mud fucked so like these people were like

apparently this lady sunk into the mud and like she got stuck and then like the wave hit her and they were like trying to pull her out with a helicopter or something and then like once the tide went over her like she was just gone

so like they were just like constantly like don't get mud fucked don't get mud fucked like it's pretty gnarly dude um and that's when you're standing waiting for the wave Yeah. Wow. So less gnarly than that, it happens a lot. People miss it. Or they get hit and thrown.

Or like, my buddy Mackey, you met Mackey. He rode the wave, but he only wrote it for like three minutes and then fell, and then he was just done. And we just kept going. So if you fall, you're just back there. But, like, you can swim out. Yeah, like, it'll throw you around for a little bit and you'll get sucked with it. Because the whole ocean's going back out. So, like, you'll get sucked with it.

But it's not as, like, you can get smoked, but, like, for the most part, you're fine. And then when I was in England, did I watch this old headlike? So there's a title bar in England. And we were riding, and he fell. And then, like, I watched, he flipped his board backwards so the fin was in the front, and he started paddling sideways. Because there's this area in the white foam that, like, it'll keep you in it.

And you're not in the wave, but you're just behind it. And if you keep paddling, you'll stay with it. You'll never catch up. but he paddled to the shoreline and then the shoreline like explodes around because it's where it's pinching the tide in so then he like exploded around

and he was on like the mud like this deep and then he when he got back into the wave he flipped his board around and got back up I was like this guy's a wizard dude and is this a guy that must like ride that that bore all the time dude England was so wild like I met these guys

and the coolest thing about novelty waves is like they'll just reach out to me because they'll just see my novelty wave videos and they'll be like, dude, you gotta come surf like here. So I got, I hung out with this, this group of guys they call themselves the Muddy Brothers because like it's all these mud flats and like classic English dudes.

And they took me to like a secret spot and I wasn't allowed to film the first wave. So like we rode this wave for like 25 minutes and I wasn't allowed to film. No way. And it's like, so that was cool. It was like spiritual. Because they didn't want to blow the spot up.

Yeah, yeah. Because they had, there's the spot that's blown up that everyone knows about. everyone serves and then there's the secret spot like different area and how was that one is sick really yeah sick what's up guys we're gonna take a break really quick because it's 24 and it's time to talk about something important when you are seriously hurt your injury could be worth millions yes that's right the world is a crazy place and one person's negligence can result in another's settlement and that's why i got to talk to you about morgan and morgan morgan and morgan is america's largest injury law firm

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pound-5-29 from yourself. phone. This is a paid advertisement. Now let's get back to the show after the short disclaimer. That must be so cool to be able to touch the culture and all these little places. Yeah, dude, that is... That are just obsessed with getting on a wave. That is

the best part of my job, the most amazing thing I get to see because you got this group of dudes in England who surf, now they have a wave pool nearby too, but they surf a tidal bore and a wave pool. And they don't even they're like ocean surfing? Who cares? You know what I mean? But then like, and then I can go, I've served in the Great Lakes

with guys that are just like, yeah, lake surfing, that's it. That's what it's all about. Wow. And then like people that are just like ocean surfing is the only way. But it's all surfing. So it's like, it's very cool. And you like seeing every little flavor. I love seeing it all.

Oh, that's so cool. And that's what like I always, I have to keep it changing up, keep it interesting. How do you find river waves? Like obviously if someone tells you, but like have you found any on your own where you're just like walking down a river and be like... Yeah, I found a couple... Like, there was one in Vermont that, like, we pretty much saw it from... My buddy actually saw it, and he was like, let's go check it out.

And then, like, the first time it was flat. Then, like, two years later, we saw it again, and we were like, do, let's go check it. And he just saw it, like, just near his house. Just Google mapping. Oh, on Google Maps. Because he knew I was coming out there to try to surf, and he was, like, looking up the river. And he found it, and I wrote it the one time. And then it's...

So rivers are gauged on cubic feet per second, the CFS reading. And for what I was doing the 50 States, a lot of it was kayak websites, kayak forums. I was reading through like, oh, whatever. I don't know. The centaur is not good unless it's 80,000 CFS. You've got to make sure it's raining or they release the dam or this or that, whatever. So it was all this, like, crazy research.

And it's like one of those things at first you're like, what are they talking about? and then when you start getting into it at all, starts clicking, making sense. Yeah, yeah. Because, like, the river, you don't have to worry about the wind, you know, the lakes, ocean, everything else. Yeah.

And so how does a river wave get formed? Is it like a rapid? It's a drop. Yeah, it's like, this part of the river is this tall, this part's this tall, drops down, but it also has some type of hook. So, like, a lot of times

there's, like, a big rock, big boulder, and then, like, it'll drop down in the bowl, and create white foam here so like you don't want to surf there you would die but if you're over here it's like safer white foam and then like a clean face so then you can go in that foam to catch it it's called the pile they call it um and sometimes the pile disappears like right as you're paddling it's like oh no pile i'm gonna miss it just get washed down through and you're down the

river um but then you can get on the wave and say there's foam here and the clean face here they call it the green wave or the green part of the wave and then you can mimic ocean surfing and like our goal with river surfing always is to mimic like do a turn totally different sport though but you have to make it look like you're riding a regular wave yeah so that's interesting it's fun and so

for those river waves you can ride those indefinitely yeah as long as you like your legs will let you I mean that sounds kind of sick too like you could just be like kicking turns like on that all day yeah so you can like we went to this One, like, in Montana, that was just like, dude, you could ride for 10 minutes, and then you'd go lay down and someone else could ride next to you. And then, like, maybe they fall and you get back up, do a couple more turns, and then you go sit back on your board, truck driver style. What do you mean to sit on your board?

Like? So, like, you could be surfing. And then, like, we have this trick we call the truck driver. It's a joke. It's like a joke. But, like, you sit on your butt and then you put your feet, like, on the nose of your board, and then you, like, go like this, like, drive the truck. While you're on the wave. Yeah.

Wow. That's so sick It's cool And so this would be I mean correct if I'm wrong Like the actual physics of it is like I've seen it like Like cruises will have it sometimes

We're like they'll have like a little fake wave Floor rider Yeah exactly We're like they're shooting water up a hill And then you're riding down the water On this little like ramp Yeah but the flow rider is what they call A shallow water wave

And like In my opinion that has nothing to do a surfing Because like they ride like the skate deck style thing Yeah yeah And then they have deep water ones now they invented. But yeah, the river surfing is the same idea as that. But it's deep. So you can ride your fins.

Right. And you can get more traction and get more turns. You can do like real committed maneuvers. Interesting. Are people like airing out on these? Yeah. Oh yeah. Especially in Munich, dude.

The one that you were looking at. Yeah, yeah. They do it, dude. Oh, that's so cool. It's sick. And so what places have like thriving surf communities that you wouldn't expect? Like when I think surfing, I'm obviously thinking like, you know, Hawaii, I'm thinking like Florida parts of it

I'm thinking like Portugal like parts of like you know the coast like off Africa like where are the spots where you're like you know you would not believe it there's a community here that love surfing like Erie Pennsylvania Really?

Yeah Lake Erie and they're lake waves Yeah and they're sick And you go out there and you're like Oh this is like a beach town Yeah it's sick It's rad

But the thing about lake surfing is For the most part They don't get to surf board charts. A couple times a year maybe. They're surfing in a six millimeter wetsuit, boots, boots, gloves, full hood, like the whole deal. So like... Lake surfing is that much colder.

It's just when they get the waves, it's cold. I see. So if it's summertime. Chances are the lake's just flat. Wow. So when you say a beach town, it's a little different. Mm-hmm. But I would say like Montana,

and now they've created ways like Idaho. They have like a wave and there's a surf shop and I've been to the surf shop and I guess it was in Boise, Idaho. I can't remember. I've been to so many, dude. But yeah, there's like surfers, surfboards, like a surfboard rack. And it's like, whoa, that's crazy. What about Antarctica? Yeah, I was trying to get that at the end of my seven seas thing, but Red Bull wasn't into the, it's a lot.

There's waves. Yeah, oh yeah, there's waves. Has anyone done it? Yeah, there's a guy that surfed it. There's a documentary about it on the Red Bull surfing app. Oh, really? Yeah. I think he's a...

He might be from Argentina, the guy. He's like a big wave surfer. And what would go into doing something like that? Dude, you got to ride. You got to ride the shipping boat to Antarctica. Or take the... There is a plane, but I don't know if you can even bring, like, bags.

And, like, I think a lot of the trips are... they're like tourist trips. So like you go to Antarctica for six days and like you pay 15 grand and they take you to see penguins and this and that. It's very organized and structure.

It sounds like a cruise. So it's impossible to break away. Yeah. But I think you can ride the ship over but you need to be in touch with a country because you know how like Antarctica is divided into like different countries?

Politically it's like a whole word thing. Yeah. So you have to be like representing I'm a part of a U.S. You have to work with those people and they have to give you military people that will take you around to waves and you need

you'll probably need a 6 million meter wetsuit boots, gloves, the whole deal and then you could probably be stuck inside for a couple days because of the wind and the storms and I definitely want to do it though that's on the bucket list. Yeah for sure. I was trying to figure it out

I was trying to just convince Red Bull to let me just get a plane ride because they have planes for the 7 Cs but they're like I don't think we're need it. I was like, yeah, but we need it. You know what I mean? Yeah. How are the the seven Cs that you did? Seven Cs, seven days. Yeah. Where'd you go? Um, Cheba, Japan.

Bally, Indonesia, Bells Beach, Australia, Melbourne, Australia, Texas, which is the Gulf of Mexico. I subbed that in for the South Atlantic. Then I went home, North Atlantic, and then I went to Norway for the Arctic? That's so far. It was sick. Yeah, I mean, it's just conceptually, it's such a good idea. Thanks, dude. Appreciate it.

I was even listening to you say it to, on a different show. You were like, I've heard the seven Cs my whole life. Yeah. What are the seven Cs? Yeah. I have no idea. Oh, you don't. I've heard that term like, oh, he sailed the seven Cs.

But like, I didn't even really ever think, you know, how many Cs are there? Yeah. So, well, so the seven Cs have changed throughout time. Right. And like, I had so many. different ideas like talk about anxiety did that project was like because i produced the whole thing like front to back conceptually everything um and i was like okay so what do we do do do i involve shipping routes is it this is it that like what do we want to do so at the end red bull was kind of like

just do the seven Cs that you want to do so then i found like surf spots i really wanted to go to and then i connected them but it was north pacific in japan then it was the Indian Ocean in Bali, Indonesia. Then it was the southern ocean in Bells Beach, which is the ocean that's connected to Antarctica. But only Australia counts that as the southern ocean as that part. The rest of the world doesn't. So that was a nice loophole, like a fun.

So then Sydney was South Pacific. Then the Gulf of Mexico, we subbed in for the South Atlantic, then North Atlantic, Jersey, then Arctic. Wow. So they divide the Pacific and the Atlantic. into two, which like I wasn't the biggest fan of when we first went into it. I wanted more names, make it fun. But it's whatever.

It was more about the location, showing the culture, showing, I don't know. Yeah. And what about Oslo Arctic surfing? So sick. Really? Best thing of the whole trip. Really? Why?

Dude, it was awesome. First of all, we saw the Northern Lights. And like the first night we pulled up and we were just like, ah, my buddy J.T. one kid film and he was like, I think there's a shot at the Northern Lights and we rolled up at like 930 at night and dude, by 10, 10.30 they were just like blasting. And that's surreal, dude. Like that's something you hear about your whole life too. Yeah. And I was, that's one of those things. Like the 70s is really special to me. Not only was it a massive project that I got to come up with the idea, do the whole thing and I actually got to follow through with it, but like

surfing there's certain points in my life when I'm like wow surfing got me to see the northern lights like that's crazy that's crazy how cool is that it's like out of body the shit blew your mind huh blew my mind dude yeah I really want to go see those it's it's amazing and how long it just goes like for hours hours like all night dude and then like I think it went the first night the second night and then it didn't go so like that was one of those things too like I get pretty like spiritually connected to stuff that I do. Yeah. So when we rolled up and saw that,

I was like, damn, I was meant to be here. Yeah, that was a moment. This is it. Like, this is what it's all about. Did it look anything like you had seen before? Like, is there any, like, analog for it? Or is it like... There's one thing I can tell you

is that it looks cooler on an iPhone than in real life. Which is kind of a bummer. No way. I swear to God, you can hold your iPhone up and look at the North than lights and you're like, huh. Wow. It's pretty crazy, dude.

Okay, I'll just watch your video then. I'll just be like, all right. I feel like you kind of covered it. But like, dude, the kid J.T. that was filming, he like stayed up for hours, like time lapse. He's like, oh, if I film this time lapse at this speed, I'll do this, I'll do that. Like he did all different angles. And he got some amazing footage.

Oh, that's so safe. Like mind-blowing. Yeah, I would love to see that. Pretty cool. Yeah. And then... It seems just so wild. It's just like the whole sky lit up.

Yeah, it's something, dude. It really is. And it's just like, I don't know. Life's so weird nowadays. Like, uh, I like to like stop and appreciate stuff. And like I feel like the Northern Lights is just one of those things you could just forget about that it ever exists. It doesn't really matter that much. But then like when you see it, it's like, holy shit.

Yeah, it's a real thing. This is for real. The earth is crazy. Like, no wonder people are talking about this. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, get what the hype is about.

Everyone's been talking about this for so long. Yeah. Yeah. Because, like, I always say, like, cliches are cliches for a reason. Yeah. Because, like, you know, your parents always tell you bullshit, and you're like, shut out there. Like, I get it. But then, like, you get older and you're like, oh.

Yeah, they were completely right. Yeah. Northern Lights is one of those things. You're like, damn. What is, which spot? Can you explain, like, local culture? Like, locals culture in surfing and, like, what that means? Yeah, it varies.

But, yeah, essentially, localism in surfing is, like, people protecting their surf spot. And there's so many different rules and so many different things that happen around the world. And like, for the most part, like, you can, for the most part, everyone in surfing is very friendly. But there are people that are agro. And there's certain places, like, I guess kind of what I was saying. before about people are very like stuck in their mindset about how surfing is and how it should be and I feel like at a certain point surfing was so influenced by this like Hawaii localism thing

that it spread to certain parts of the world maybe where like it doesn't need to be interesting and like I've experienced localism like on the great lakes and the biggest thing about localism in this day and age is that most of it happens on Instagram so like they'll just wait until you leave and then they'll attack you on Instagram and it's like, bro. Oh, really? It's like gone digital. It's gone digital. That's crazy. Because like the stories you would hear back in the day is like, oh, if you go to this

surf spot in Hawaii, you got to like check in with someone that like is a local and if you just go out there and no one knows you, then like they'll fight you. And like you'll get your ass beat on the beach. Which like if you don't know serving it seems crazy, it'd be like, wait, how, like these guys are like chill. Why are they fighting people? So for the most part, it's kind of like

if you are respectful of like the unwritten rules of the lineup you're fine like so in Hawaii for instance like the North Shore is like the spot where everybody serves north shore of Oahu

but then like there's other places around the island where like you just don't film and it's not like and no one needs to argue about it it's just like we get it Like everyone's cool with the North Shore being the place that you film. But then what that does create like crowded, a lot of cameras, like the North Shore gets crazy. And if you go out to the North Shore and you act like you paddle out to pipeline and maybe you're inexperienced or you're not as experienced as you think you are and you go out there and you just turn around and take like the first wave, like someone's probably going to say something to you or you're.

you're probably going to end up going over the falls and getting injured. So for the most part, like in Hawaii, the waves kind of keep the surfers in check. They kind of police the surfers. They police because they're so gnarly. So, like, I've seen situations where, like, a guy's taking off and then, like, there's a guy on the shoulder of the wave, which is, like, further down the line. And, like, the guy taking off clearly has priority. and like he's in a better, safer spot. But then, like, in Hawaii,

there's pipeline locals. And, like, you just know that, like, if they want to wave, like, they're going to get it. Like, I'm very respectful in surfing because, like, obviously I don't live in Hawaii. I have a ton of friends there. I love going, love visiting. I get some ways when I go.

But, like, I'm not going to paddle out and try to get in, like, I'm not going to go out and try to be the man and, like, try to paddle battle a guy that's been surfing there his whole life. Like, it's his spot. He deserves it. So, localism really only ever comes into play, like, if you are completely oblivious to the rules and regulations of just surfing. Because surfing is basically, like, the wave breaks, there's a surfer closest to the curl, they call it, and, like, they have priority on the wave. Don't take off next to them. Don't try to push foam down the face. Don't get in their way.

That's called snaking. Yeah, snaking someone. Dropping in, snaking, taking off on. But then like the other form of localism that like I've run into a few times, like I was saying with the Great Lakes, there's this crazy mother. There's crazy dude from Michigan that was just like he was gnarly. I had to block him because he was like going, he was going nuts on my Facebook page and stuff. And he was like, don't be coming here and filming this and belittling calling this a novelty wave and all this stuff. And I'm just like, bro, I don't know.

Because like, I'm just like, I always, I always link up with like the nice, cool. Yeah, people like you. Yeah, like normal people. Yeah. And then like there's definitely, there's, it's weird to think about, but like this guy's a meth head. You know what I mean? So he's just like going wild. So then there are places around the world where like there's localism for no reason.

And like there's a place in Oregon. It's called Seaside. And like, I would probably. just never surf out there because like apparently like the locals will like actually throw rocks at you and like attack you and like I don't even know if the way's that good I haven't really seen that much footage of it's an ocean wave yeah and it's in the ocean and it's like it's interesting dude because like they're just taking it too far for what reason yeah and for the most part what I've come across is like these violent crazy local people that I've run into like people that will actually say something to you um They're like terrible surfers. So it's like a really weird. Yeah. Because like if you're a talented, good surfer, you're competent and your skills, like you're not really going to have any issues in the lineup.

Like you're not going to be cutting people off. You're not going to be running people over because you know how to turn your board. So like a lot of like the heavy locals are like usually not the best surfers. Yeah. It's really, it's strange, man. No, that makes sense actually. That makes me happy to hear that like that because I've just heard these stories where it's like, yeah, the locals will fuck with you if you. you're not from there or whatever. And I was like, damn, that just seems like territorial.

But it makes me happy to know that it's like, no, it's just the insecure guys that are the worst. Oh, for sure. Yeah. That have nothing. Definitely. That are like, okay, this is one thing that I have. I live near a wave and this is my thing. Even though it's not your thing.

But you get to own something. Yeah. And then when someone else comes in, especially if they're better than you, then it's like, fuck that guy. I'm going to take away the thing that he wants is to be on the wave. Yeah. Wow. So, yeah, you nailed it. It's odd.

And like I actually had someone pretty much like yell at me when I was in Florida. I went out and I was on the Gulf Coast of Florida that ways were this big. And it was the exact type of person you're talking about. Yeah. Because I have a GoPro on the front of my board. And like, he's like, don't be putting that camera at me. And I was like, what? And he's like, don't be putting that camera at me.

I was like, I'm not. And he's like, well, good. That's what's happening. Don't point it at me. I'm like, dude, I would never point this camera at you. Trust me. And he was just so mad. He just like went in.

And then like I walked by later. I heard him talking shit. And I was just like, I heard him say something like, I wish fucking Ben Grave would go back to Jersey, whatever. And I'm like, no way. He knew you. Yeah, yeah. Well, dude, sometimes like it makes you a target.

You know what I mean? Of course. But it's like. I mean, at this point, your profile has gotten so big, specifically within the surf world. Like, if you got on a wave, I'm sure one out of like probably two or three people know, like, oh, that's been graving. So, yeah, so like, I don't know.

It was weird, though, because he, like, got out of the water. Or, like, he got out. Like, he didn't want to surf near me nothing. I was trying to be cool. I was like, oh, what board are you riding? He's like, you don't matter. I'm like, okay, dude. So then he got out, though.

And I'm like, okay, so you just got so mad you had to get out. And then like what did that solve? Like I would have shared ways with you. Like it's all good. Like plus like I'm not I'm not gonna film the spot and be like Yo everyone go here. Yeah,

I'm gonna fuck with this guy. I'm gonna protect the spot. I'm not gonna show the street sign. Right. Because like that's another thing in surfing too. Like I don't go places. Like I have to film a lot. I don't film every session.

But I don't go places and I'm like, yo this is in this spot in this town. Like come here. coordinates here. You know I'm like dude like I film just the way. and I don't show anything else. Right. It's just the town. But those types of people that you mentioned earlier are they'll use any excuse to.

I mean, you know how Instagram has, dude. It's nuts. And so you've seen it happen now, like, on Instagram where people will be like, they'll tag people specifically or will it just be like a rant into like the ether? Yeah, rant, tagging, all kinds of stuff. And it's just... And you see it all the time. All the time.

And it's just getting worse. Like Instagram's just getting worse in general, I believe. Yeah. I just choose to not even engage. I don't care. Sometimes I'm just. throw like a funny comment. But like if they come back, I'm just like, dude, I'm not wasting my time with this.

And so have you seen people that are like tagging pros? Like, yo, this pro came in here? Or like, is there more reverence and respect for like tour guys? It depends. It's, I've seen it. I've seen both. During COVID, I feel like a lot of stuff. I remember there was this just this specific situation with this guy, Kanoa Igarashi.

He's a Japanese pro surfer on the tour. And he was in Port. I guess during COVID and he went to a spot and everyone was like freaking out that he drove three hours to go serve. I don't know Because he was like bringing COVID or something shit? I don't know. I don't know. It seems kind of racist, right? What the hell? Come on, dude, let the Asian dude serve. Like, what's wrong with this? That's crazy. But like, yeah, that's like bullshit. That's generally speaking, localism is like stupid. Yeah, generally speaking. Is there ever an excuse for it? Like, is there ever a need for localism? For sure. In what sense? But the crazy thing is whenever I've seen a situation where a local,

someone who's competent at surfing, talented, had to say something to someone else, the local was respectful. They were like, hey, man, just want you to know. You just paddled out here. None of us know who you are. You're back paddling us and you're taking too many waves and just want you to know, like,

we're, like, someone will snake you eventually if you keep doing that. And then the guy's like, oh, man, I didn't even notice, you know? Like, and then they're like, all good. Don't even worry about it. Like, let's just surf. So, like, that, because, like, if you're, like, say you just come from California, you go to Hawaii, you paddle out, or the East Coast, you go to Hawaii, or anywhere, dude.

You paddle out and you just take a wave, and then you just, everyone's sitting, and then you just go back out and you take another one. and then like maybe other people wanted it, but you went deeper than them, then you're kind of breaking the unwritten rules of surfing. But for the most part, if you mention something,

it's, I mean, I pretty much never care. I'm not that type of guy. Even on your local spots? Nah, whatever. I'm just whatever. Have you ever gotten in a fight even in your argument over a wave? Like an argument or anything physical?

Either. with my brothers but no I mean nah I just don't care I just I don't care Have you ever seen a fist fight?

Yeah What happened? It's usually just Not as exciting as anyone Would expect it to be You know what I mean And then it's usually just sad You know it's just like

What are you guys doing? Yeah come on Stupid We're 40 Yeah you're at the beach Because like Your favorite thing Because like yeah

Remember guys like once Like we leave this like Surf spot that you're clamming? Like, the real world is, like, right there. 15 feet away on the beach over there. Like, let's remember that. There's, like, a weird bubble that I think people get lost.

They just, like, they think surfing. I think surfing is one of those things, too, where, like, people don't get to do it as much as they want, so they have this whole fantasy world that they live in. And there's so much pressure on each experience. Yeah. Like, when the experience happens, it's like, it has to be perfect. Because I only get to do this once every two months.

And if I don't get the thing that I need, people are going to have to pay. And they literally take it out. And it's probably smaller spots, too. They get, like, the most localism. Or, like, smaller waves or, like, more, like, novice waves because more people can access them. Like, Mavericks, like, no, like, you have to be so talented to do that.

You're spot on. And if you're able to do that, then everyone's like, oh, yeah, that's the dude from, you know, Long Island or the dude from Jersey. They're, like, he's cool. So you're 100% right because that's how I'm, same. Most ways regulate themselves. Because that crazy, stupid way over aggressive localism happens at point breaks that peel down the line for a really long time

that are usually no consequence waves. They're just mellow ways that peel down the line. I don't know. I just don't get involved in any of it. It's just like I just don't care. And I would rather just be on a novelty wave anyway. Ain't no one going out there. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, there's no localism on novelty waves, right? Or I guess like lake waves and stuff. But like, I can't imagine you're finding like a breeze coming across some water in Nebraska. People are like, dude, that's my breeze. Why are you getting on my fetch? It's my gust of wind. No, but and for me, like, I'm trying to just go find the final frontier. Like, I don't want, pretty much in my personal opinion, if like there's a million people out, I don't even really care for it that much, you know?

Like some people thrive on the fact that they drive down to the beach They get out of their truck They put their board on the back of their truck They look like the man They talk to these guys And then they paddle out and think they're ripping Yeah that's not your deal Let me wear my pineapples

I'm just like fucking river Yeah like if anyone's if all the boys are going over here Like for the most part like It's just like what I like to do spiritually Like I want to go find something that no one's ever written And like that's just my vibe That's what that's what gets me that feeling. Would you try to do every country? What's up guys? We're going to take a break

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It can always be better. Let's say you're in the 1% you're about to be in the 0.01% with Blue Chew. Let's get back to the show. Dude, I'm doing it. Did you know about that or no? I think I heard you mention it. Okay.

And what's the status with that? Status is I'm like 10% finished. I have, I'm like 22 countries in. I actually haven't done the count. Dude, it's way harder than, I thought. Well, yeah. I can imagine. I can imagine.

Explain why. Money. Yeah. 50 states was like, 50 states probably cost me like, like relatively, let's just say, if I averaged it out, maybe $300 a state, $500 a state, because I would go, you know, like I went Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, and like that whole trip's like $800.

Yeah. But then like I do one drive that cost me a couple hundred dollars in gas and then that sets me back. So the average- You're sleeping? You're getting hotels and stuff? I was sleeping in my van when I did that. Oh, really? Yeah. I had a nice bed in my van.

Oh, that must be so nice. Yeah. So like, okay, so like we did a trip to Germany and cost me like six grand. So, but we did Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Switzerland. Did I get five? It was four or five countries. And I was like, okay, so the country's just going to average out to like a thousand bucks a country. Not 200, 300. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's also way more countries. So yeah, there's like 193 countries. 44 landlocked countries but so my plan is to chisel away at all the coastline countries and then be like okay I did 150 countries that's pretty good let's knock out these landlocked countries yeah

chances are there's rivers lakes I'm thinking like the people's republic of the Congo might get a little it's just like a flat desert how you looked into that? I've looked into some stuff like the lake of Chad wow like some just been like what am I going to do when I get here?

You know what I mean? Wow. But that must be like part of the thrill. Like that must be the most fun part now. Yeah. Because now you're looking at countries and you're like, yeah. Okay, there's like like an old well.

Like over here in Namibia. Like I might be able to get on that. That's so cool. So Namibia actually has an amazing wave. Oh really? Yeah. A skeleton coast. Oh, really?

Yeah, there's all these like really interesting surf spots like like off the was it the west coast of Africa? Yeah. Oh for sure. That I never knew about. Yeah. Like, uh, Nazare. Oh yeah.

Portugal. Oh, that's Portugal. No. But yeah, like Morocco. What's the big one that's, uh, I forgot where it's at? There's like, there's like a new famous one that like popped off on the West.

Skeleton Bay? Maybe. They were talking about? Is it a left like crazy long left? Maybe. So like, well, like Portugal,

obviously and is connected to France. Uh-huh. Spain and then Africa's right there. Yeah. So like Morocco is a great waves and then like everything I actually don't know what's below that In order yeah, but yeah there's waves all down all down that coast but um Europe's good too Europe has great waves yeah which is like you just wouldn't expect it like there's no surf culture like are you discovering that there's like historical search surf culture in all these different areas like oh people have been like riding these waves for like yeah a thousand years like Vikings but like we don't even talk about it dude it's crazy to

think about like yeah because you do like France is a place where first of all the waves are amazing and like I went there

and I was like wow like surfing is for real in France like as a kid you're not like you know you think Paris

it's baguettes and mimes and Eiffel towers and shit and like there's a full booming surf culture the whole thing in France

it's pretty mind blowing even though like there's always been a pro contest there I knew about it everything but like when you

go there, you have to experience it to see. One thing I do want to tell you about Europe, which is really cool. So, like, you know when a hurricane comes up the East Coast, and it spins, and, like, you see it off the coast on the news or whatever, and we get ways from it. Those are some of our best ways. Then it

goes up into, like, Canada. Then it spins around, and goes to, like, Ireland, England, France. Like, it goes like this, like around the Atlantic and then down. So, like, that storm just hits the East Coast of the U.S. and then builds, builds, builds.

And they just get like bigger waves from like the same cycle. Wow. It's pretty sick. I had no idea. It's cool. Everything's connected. That's something that surfing has taught me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because you're in the ocean. You're like, yeah, this water's kind of the same water as that war. That's part of my game, like with the 50 states and the countries and the oceans and stuff because I'm like, really it's one. Yeah. But like these dudes just decided to like. Yeah, I guess this is different. South Dakota is different than North Dakota for some reason. ever got in the position to be able to make that claim.

Yeah. Like that was their claim. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty interesting.

Yeah. You did surf in 50 different pieces of land that are apparently the same thing. Same one. Even though it's not, like even though they're not different at all. Yeah. Except Hawaii is completely different. But that is a part of the same thing. Yeah.

But and then like cultures are funny too. Like things are just different in different places everywhere. Do you find that people have a different mentality towards surfing? Like I know like in Hawaii you have a very like spiritual like, like, surf culture that has been there for thousands of years and people canoeing and standing up on canoes and stuff like did you find remnants of that in different places yeah i think surfing the one thing about it that's amazing is that like you take a surfer from all these different parts anywhere lakes rivers oceans whatever and they're all standing on a beach together they're all going to be

able to talk and get along and chat and speak about the energy that we're riding even though it's different energy everywhere and there's some crazy connection between all surfers which is why that localism thing is such a bummer and it's like why does surfing attract

like how did those people get attracted to surfing? Because like all these other people for the most part are just like like I can stand on the beach like with anyone I've ever surfed with no matter where they're from and just be like

look at that one. Like we'll just watch the wave break and they'll be like, whoa, that's a sick one. Yeah, there's like a purity to it. Yeah. And it's like, how did these like cooks that are just like fucking up the whole vibe for everyone? Why are they also into it?

The good thing is they don't. Because it's such a small amount of people that they don't end up fucking up the vibe for everyone. Yeah. But yeah. But it must be so cool to see it cross-culture. Like a Hawaiian dude, a kid from Jersey

and then a Japanese guy can all like connect. Yeah. And like, dude, that's the crazy thing because we were in Japan for the seven season. Like, I don't even, could never even communicate with some of the guys that I was surfing with, but I would paddle out. And we knew that we were there for the same reason. So, like, I take off on a wave and they're like, hooting for me. You know, like, yeah. That's so cool. And we're like,

and I'm like, dude, it's good. And they're like, yeah, it's good. And like, that's it. Like, we don't have to know anymore. It's just like, that's... Feel the stoked. Yeah, we're stoked. And so I'm curious, like, with Japanese guys, like, obviously Japan is a very distinct culture. You know what I mean? It's like, there's a very precise, like, excellent version of Japanese culture. It's like everything they do, do they do extremely technically to the best of their ability. It seems like across everything, right? For sure.

So I'm curious, does that transcend into surfing? Do they surf in a way that's like very technical? Yeah, like that guy, Kanoa Agarashi, he's actually like more, he was born and raised in California, but he like has roots in Japan. But we've noticed like Asian countries are getting better. better really fast. But Brazil dude is the spot. All the good surfers are coming from Brazil. Like when I was a kid 20 years ago, there was like two Brazilian surfers on tour. Now it's like a majority of the tour. And they're the strongest, the most powerful, the most skilled, the biggest

airs, the most technical. It's pretty crazy. And what is it? Is it just the geography of having the best waves? Is it the culture? I think it has a lot to do with like the fact there's this guy name's Adriana DeSuzza and he's a Brazilian surfer he's a world champion I think 2015 he was on the world tour forever and like he's from the favela like he's from like the poorest part of I think either Sao Paulo or Rio de Janeiro and it's like I think they want it the most a lot of those guys so and I think that that's what makes the difference interesting and it's it's pretty some of their stories are amazing like I brought that guy up because he's like one of my favorite surfers and by no means is he one of the most skilled surfers that's ever

won world titles or whatever there's so many good people but his story is like my favorite it's awesome so he was like raised in a favela like yeah basically poverty yeah poverty like making money growing up like doing whatever yeah i can imagine and then just found surfing at a young age yeah that and that that's a lot of the Brazilian guys stories like they found surfing and it changed their life. Wow. Then they end up on the world tour and making millions of dollars.

Yeah. It's like, whoa. And it even, like, there's even an element of that that might even go a long way because like,

even if you can get into like a lower level tour and make like, you know, $20,000 bucks. Yeah. Like, if you're living in a favela in Brazil, like that's 20,000 goes a long way.

For sure. You know what I mean? So like for him, it changes his life. Whereas like, you know, for you, you were making $7,000 at year,

you're like, I'm living in Jersey. Like, I'm 18. This is not going to cut it. But if you're living in a favela, it's like, this is already working. I made it. Yeah.

And so now you're just like triple down and then who knows where it goes. Well, yeah, because and then they have that killer instinct to be like, dude, if I make $20 grand, I can make, you know, I can make this a life. Exactly. Yeah, I can live off five. Totally. Whereas like a kid from Jersey or California, their parents are going to be like, dude, seven grand. Yeah, yeah.

What are you doing? And then the kid like feels like shit. He's like, yeah, I guess surfing sucks. I'll sell insurance or whatever. I'm supposed to do. Yeah, that's crazy. That's actually a really interesting mentality. So you come from nothing, so you're willing to hustle. And then

on top of, I guess, the barrier to entry for surfing is probably pretty low. Like, if you're trying to play, like, you know, like, if you're trying to go skiing, you need to, like, live near snow. You need to have a snowboard. You need to have snow equipment. You have to buy a lift ticket. Yeah. Like, just to try it out, you're dropping like at least

four, 500 bucks. Yeah, for sure. That's tough for most people. And surfing, like, well, now it's even better because there's There's guys that have grown up and surfed and they will help the younger generation. But yeah, you can still find a surfboard for $100, $150, and it'll get you out there. And it's going to be a piece of shit, but it'll get you out there. Yeah. And like, you ever see those videos of the kids in like Indonesia or Africa surfing on planks of wood?

Oh, yeah. It's amazing. Yeah, it's insane. It's like the most beautiful thing ever. Like, just purity, dude. Yeah. And they're more stoked than any guy trying to localize. a knee highway in Florida.

You know what I'm like that's what surfing's about for me, dude. Yeah. Like just that purity is the magic of it. Making it work with what you've got. I think that's why novelty ways is such a thing for me because it's like every time you go to a wave that no one's ever ridden and you have to watch it and figure it out, you go back to that like figuring out how to ride a surfboard as a kid

or figuring out your first wave or whatever. like it's like that childhood like adventure to make it magical and because at a certain point like going out at the pier every single day and trying to do the sickest top turn isn't that magical for me for whatever reason yeah for some people it's enough some people love it yeah yeah yeah do you think there's going to be a wave of surfers that come out of like the west coast of africa oh for sure like are there already some where it's like sullanoly senegal has like the booming surf scene there's one guy I took them up to a standing wave in, there's a standing wave in Albany, New York. And they literally DM me on Instagram and they're like, hey, we're going to this wave.

Can you give us a ride? And I like drove to the JFK airport. And I picked out like 15 Senegalese surfers like straight and took them up to Albany, New York. And I like didn't really know what I was signing up for. But I rolled out. Thank God I had the van. And I was like, all right, we're doing this. Oh, that's so sick. Let's go.

Because I was just like, I don't know, for whatever reason, I do certain things. Like, you know how Instagram is. Like, a million people could reach out to you. But then, like, for some reason, I was like, I should do this. Like, I should help these guys out. These guys are coming from across the world. Yeah. And they just want a ride to find this spot.

Yeah, so it was cool. It was cool. That's so cool. But there's this one guy. Okay, his name is Sharif Fall. And he's like six foot four, just like big dude. And he's from Sanagal. and he is gnarly, dude, throws huge airs, like, rips.

Really? So, yeah, there's definitely going to be, like, it's common. I wonder if in the way that Brazil had this huge come up. I'm sure, dude. Like, those areas can have, like, Senegal. Like, you have, like, guys winning, you know, tour from Senegal. There's no reason, like, there's no reason why not. Oh, that's so cool.

No, it's cool. Surfing is, it's progressing. I mean, there's more surfers than ever. There's more technology than ever. There's more ability access. more access than ever. So surfing, it could just keep growing and keep blossoming and just keep being like, who knows. Are there any like Arab waves or like Middle Eastern waves?

Yeah, for sure. Lebanon for sure. Pakistan. Really? Yeah. Because, wait, is Pakistan right above India, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so there's ways there.

I think access is pretty tough. But, dude, there's, there's ways in the Dead Sea. In the Dead Sea? Yeah. Dude, there's, yeah. There's waves in the Dead Sea? I thought there was like barely any tide. Wind chop, dude.

Really? Just from the wind. Just from the fetch. That must make it also hard for you to try to get to every country because like you probably got to move pretty quickly. Like if you're in New York and you see there's, you know, a wave in Nebraska, like you could get there by tomorrow and it might cost you a couple hundred bucks but like it's doable. Yeah.

Whereas if you see that there's like wind in, you know, Pakistan, like it's going to be tough to get over there by the time the wind's still going. So like here's my hope that I start chipping away so much that some brand or someone is like, dude, he's going to do it. Like I'm going to back this.

So then it becomes easier for me to make it happen whereas like maybe I don't have to like get there. Like we can plan like the best time to go and figure it out because like juggler right now juggling YouTube videos, my normal life, my blue collar life in New Jersey.

It's like, it's rough to think like, oh, I'm going to go serve every country. But that's also the beauty of it, you know, being like, okay, how can I do this? Dude, what if North Korea has like the best ways? Oh, they got waves, dude. There's some photos. Really? I've seen them. I've seen, I was in the, you know, there's like an overlook between North and South

Korea. So I looked over and I was just staring down the coast, like zooming in. Like the DMZ or whatever? Yeah, there's wait. There's, well, I surfed in the DMZ, but actually North Korea, there's, I saw like all kinds of waves. And it's like, dude, if I could get in there, I could surf so easily. You surf, like, raid on the demilitarized, like, partition? My friend took me, like, as close as you could possibly get.

So we were actually, like, in, we were in the DMZ. And he kept, my friend was freaking out. And he's from South Korea. And he was like, dude, we're north of Kim Jong. Moon's vacation house. Because the border goes like this, you know what I mean? And he was like freaking out. But there's like beaches where it's cool.

And then there's a certain point where it's like, okay, we're not going over there. I mean, you basically surfed in North Korea. That's what he was saying, but I'm not counting it. That's crazy. If you're above his vacation house. Yeah, it's cool. It's a good experience. I mean, that's wild.

It's fun. Okay, what's the sketchiest, like, experience you've had trying to find a wave? You can give me a couple because I have a feeling there's probably a handful. of situations you've gotten yourself into, Mr. Gravy. Man, I'm trying to think. Well, there was one time when I was in Missouri, and they had this wave, it's called the Centaur shoot, and, like, it only flows at, like, 80,000 CFS.

And, like, I went there by myself before I was good at river surfing. And I had my seven-foot board, which was a mistake. And, like, I went out, pretty much went out and, like, nose dove. and like I got like stuck in the what do they call it it's called a whatever the the wave pretty much keeps flowing over in the same spot it's called a hydraulic and it's like really dangerous but I ended up like stuck in it and thank God I was holding like the tail on my board but it was pretty much trying to pull me under like over and over and I like dude I like pooled every muscle in my body like keeping myself above water like pretty much it was trying to drown me. and like I was by myself dude filming like with a tripod from the shoreline and it was and I was in Missouri like in the summer it was hot and it was just like flies biting me it was like one of the most like brutal experiences to where like I had PTSD. What's that? PTSD from it when I was on the I didn't even like realize that till like weeks later but I was on the bank of the river like damn if I died in Missouri that would have been pathetic. It's all the ways to die as a surfer.

Like, yeah, he died surfing. You're like, dude, big wave. He's like, man, Missouri. What? Missouri River Wave? It was brutal, dude. That's crazy. And so literally, like, it creates, like, that little hydrologic.

And it pin you... And you can get sucked under it. It can pin you in it, and you can't get out. It just keeps whipping you around. So then I found out there had been four deaths at that spot. Specifically that one. Not surfers, but, like, fishermen getting pulled out. Wow.

Yeah, pretty crazy. I haven't gone back I just went somewhere else to check off Missouri But um Because that one freaked you out pretty It freaked me out Yeah And then what's funny is like my buddy

This Grom From like my hometown His name's Brian Gorberg He was just like I'm driving cross country dude Can you tell me where that wave is And like He like

Took a bunch of acid And like went and surfed it And he was just like ripping Rip it The one that almost killed you And your boy Like 16 year old kids Just crushing it

I was just like, you should have dropped. If you had done ass, he would have made it. The problem is you were too sober. That's really what the issues is. That's my problem, dude. You got to do more drugs. What's wrong with you? Dude, but like, it was, that is so funny to me, dude.

Like, he just, like, went and made it happen. And I think, like, I think he, like, visualized what I couldn't see. Because when I went there, it was only, like, the third river I ever tried to surf. Yeah. And then over the years, I've gotten good at river surfing. But then I had no idea what I was doing. but I think he was able to like watch river surfing and like visualize it so when he went he was ready for it so if you went now like had you never done it so you don't have the mental block if you just went now for the first time

it would be a great wave yeah good spot but it's just see it in your brain it's not worth it so how'd you let go your board I what would I eventually oh if I let go I just would have gone down and once you go like down in the certain spot it'll just pin you like if the drops to like 90 to 90 degrees and what was happening is it was going down a shelf and then it hit like all this debris and it was going over the back of the debris

and that created that 90 degree drop and that's what pins you like for some reason when it's flowing like this it just keeps going and like I'm not an expert but there are like kayakers and people that can be like, they can look at it and be like, oh, you're good. Or like, oh, you're, yeah, don't go in.

But that, like, I couldn't, I didn't know anything. So, like, I would have gone down and then just not been able to come back up. Like, it just holds you in that hydraulic underwater. Is that the most dangerous situation you've been in surfing, you think? Um, dude. Up until I got, so there's this, like, rip at pipeline. So, like, you know, Pipeline is a left. Can you explain Pipeline for people that I know?

So Pipeline is the world's most famous wave and probably the world's most dangerous wave. People literally make livings off of surfing this one wave. Like my friend, Jamie O'Brien, he's a huge YouTuber, legendary server, Pipemaster. He has made his whole career surfing this wave. And it gets 20, 25 feet tall, massive barrel. And it pitches over, super-shunders.

shallow reef and it's really dangerous and they hold like the they used to hold the end of the year event for the world championship at pipeline now it's the first stop of the year I think to try to make the tour more exciting or something in the beginning but it's like the spot it's the spot out of all surfing so there's a left which is pipeline and then on the same wave it breaks at the same time there's a right, which is like, if you're standing on the beach, a left would actually be going right, and a right would be going left, like if you're looking at it.

But if you're out in the water. It's correct. Yeah. So there's a wave called Backdoor, which is the right, and then there's a wave called Off the Wall, which is the next reef down, and it's pretty close. But in between those, there's this, like, circular suction thing on the reef, and it's like a phenomenon that happens.

And essentially, what happened is I took a wave at, I guess I was at backdoor or somewhere over there. The thing about reef waves is like you see them on video and they look perfect, like they land in the same spot every time. They're a little different every time. They can be eight feet to the left, eight feet to the right. It's not exact. So like it looks a lot easier than it is. But I was somewhere in that zone between back door and off the wall and I took a wave, kicked out. There was a set behind it and when so there's there's different types of waves there's waves that are a long period swell and they've come from thousands of miles away and they come in sets so if it's like 18 seconds

of period between the waves there is like there could be like 20 waves in a set so when it's long period that's called long period a set can last forever then it'll go flat for like 10 minutes 20 minutes but short period ways it never goes flat there's always ways breaking everywhere like all the time so this was a long period swell and essentially I took like the first wave of the set which you're never supposed to do

but in Hawaii like because there's always ways behind it so like if you don't make it all those waves are gonna hit you gotcha so I took the first wave of the set because I'm in Hawaii and it's hard to get ways and I wanted to get a wave kicked out bang next wave hits me

breaks my leash So now I'm at backdoor Between backdoor and off the wall in this vortex So I didn't have any flotation on It was like a small day It was like small out there There's like 10 foot faces So I got pulled into the wave

Thrown over boom I'm like okay cool hold my breath Come up got this Another one on the head So then I'm like okay I'm in the foam I'm in this weird foam like I can't get to the surface And I'm like what the hell's going on So I finally get up

Boom, another one on the head. And I'm like, dude, this is fucked. So essentially, I got stuck in like this 12, 15 wave set in this foam. Like, I couldn't, I would get sucked out. And the next wave wouldn't pull me up it. And it wouldn't let me be far away from it to where the wave would land. It would pull me to the perfect spot every time and land on my head. Take me down.

And then the foam had, like, air pockets in it because it was very turbulent. and I was fighting to get up, fighting, fighting, and then as soon as I got up, the next one would land on me. So this happened for like probably five minutes. No. And it doesn't seem long, right?

Five minutes, but if you're, you're exacerbating every physical thing you have left, out of breath, the whole thing. So this kid breaks his board. I see the nose of his board. I'm like,

dude, can I please use that? He's like, yeah, cool. I grab it. I'm like finally have flotation and then this wave hits me boom,

rips the board out from one or eight dude, I'm just like, dude this is it boys this is it it was my last day in Hawaii it was my last surf session like so now I'm literally about to die

I'm a little superstitious now about surfing out there like the last day so I was literally about to die and I told my filmmaker and everyone I was like dude I gave up

and I was so winded gas, I was like fading black and my toe touched the sand. And like as soon as my toe like touched the sand I was like, I got this. And like I felt the beach and I was like, dude, I can do it. So like it might be weird to hear

but like as soon as my toe touched I was like, okay, I swam down because I knew it was only like five feet deep or whatever. Swam down and then pushed dug my feet in and pushed in towards the beach underwater. So then, like, I broke out of the current.

And then, like, I was like, okay, I'm home free. And then I drifted in. And I was just, like, totally out of breath. Just laid on the beach. Like, dude, I just almost died. And then this guy, Nathan Florence, he's like a pipeline specialist guy. He, like, made a video about my video. And he was saying, like, that's the spot on the North Shore

where the lifeguards can't see you. And he was like, that's the spot. Like, all of us have been. stuck in it and then I was staying at Jamie's house and he's a pipeline specialist and I came in and told him about it he's like all the boys have been stuck there all the boys have almost drowned there like so it is it was eye opening eye opening because it was like perfect blue water perfect barrels offshore wind looks beautiful small day it's not big and it just almost died and I was just like mind blood fuck it's narly that's crazy it's not I mean you think there would be like more

combo about that. People should talk about that more like, yo, there's this wave is sick, this wave is sick, but just so you know, don't do this because you can die in this little. Yeah. It's one of those things where like every single server will say it's the most dangerous wave in the world and you almost have to experience it to believe it. Yeah.

Because I'm always thinking my whole thing was always like, it's the most dangerous wave in the world for sure for G. for Jamie who's going to go out there and surf the 20 footer and I'm going out there and hoping to get a wave that I'm pretty reasonable with like I'm the novelty guy

like I don't need the 20 footer I don't need the wave of the day like you know but then that opened my eyes to like just the overall experience of like how dangerous it can be yeah

and just getting caught in that cycle is like so scary and it's like you're not even surfing it's it's so with big wave surfing, the biggest, the scariest part is actually waiting. Like, riding the wave is fine. Really? Waiting?

You see sets coming? And they're always long period. Like I said, like 20 wave sets, because it's long period swells are always the big wave swells. You see them coming. You don't know if they're going wide, deep, tall, breaking in front of you. If you're far enough in, far enough out. And you're just sitting there kind of like, all right, here we go, boys. That's sketchy.

It's nilely. Because if the set comes in and you're in the wrong spot, it could just break on you and then... You can get hit with one, push deeper, and then... And now you're just getting crushed on. Crushed. Yeah. Damn.

So you've got to really know where to position. It's less about knowing how to ride and more knowing like where to be and not get sucked in. Yeah. So like that's when knowing a spot is... Like being a local is like the meaningful. Or being with people that are local. Yeah, yeah.

Because then, like, Jamie tells me exactly, like, he's like, your best bet is to sit right there, in there where no one catches, like, and there's going to be a wide one every now and then. And then I'm like, oh, perfect, you know, which is, is, it's crazy, like, the knowledge of, because every surspot's different. But when you're in Hawaii in those situations, it's like, the severity is high. Yeah, the stakes are so high, you have to trust. local guy. You have to trust the people you're with or just look around and be like, yeah, I'm the only one sitting over here. Like, is there ever like, would people ever just holler at a stranger

and be like, yo? Yeah, oh yeah. Get over this way. Yeah, yeah. You're going to get crushed over here. And then rip currents are a real thing too. Have you been caught one? Um, no, but like, so like, if I get caught in rip current, I'll just get out of it. Like, for like, just

like, some guy who comes down to the Jersey Shore on a boogie board or whatever and he gets caught in a rip current, like, they don't know and it can happen in a second like how so those situations and and with inexperienced surfers is where you're usually like yo just so you know yeah it's a crazy rip current day yeah like there's a writ like you're in it like come over here or like just so you know like ways are going to break on you if you hang out there or like yeah so that happens a lot bro it's so sad i mean florida where i was growing up like we got taught early like here these are rip currents these

how they work, like this is how you get out of them, but like, I forget that not everyone grows up hearing about them. So people go, most people go to the beach and they can just get sucked out in one. And if you don't know, like, yo, swim, like parallel with the beach, like perpendicular to the rip current, like you'll get out pretty easily and then swim back. If you don't know, you just get taken out to the ocean. Yeah. It's an insane thing. Like, I'm assuming everyone knows what it is, but it's literally just like you get a current that will just go directly out into the middle of the ocean that can take you pretty quick. Yeah. And if you swim against it, which is what most people do is they kind of feel themselves getting pulled out and they'll be like, oh, you got to swim. And I assume that they think that the whole beach is doing that or something. Yeah. And so they go, okay, I just got to swim against the current and I'll make it back to the shoreline. And then they just get gassed out because you can't beat the current. Yeah, that's the thing that most people die. They just use all their energy. Yeah. But yeah, usually rib currents are like 20 feet wide. Literally. Like, and you could just swim to the side and be.

good. But if you don't know it, it's like yeah, you just think you got to go back against it. I had, I saved a kid in like, me and my buddy Kalani like we saved this kid in Ocean City Maryland who was like he was literally like five feet from the beach but he was in the rip current and that same thing was happening.

The wave kept landing on his head and then he would be in the current again and get hit and it was like a 11 year old kid or something so he didn't know what was going on and we just literally grabbed him and like pulled him and then like I was just we pulled him in and it was like crazy like just that little bit of knowledge like changed his whole situation yeah right because like no one else was helping him at all he just like stuck if you're not aware of it as a lifeguard like you just get stuck in there yeah that's crazy

pretty wild what do you think is the biggest wave you ever caught um so i went big wave surfing in oregon um with my friend will scudin who is like he was just in the nazary contest yeah the other day He's like a, he's from New York, Big Wave Surfer Oh, he was just in it recently. Yeah, he was in it yesterday. Yesterday? I think it was yesterday. Oh, shit.

I can't remember what police they got. I watched their heat, but, um, I don't remember the overall. But, um, I went surfing with him, paddle wave. So there's a difference. You can tow surf with a rope and you get pulled into the way by a jet ski, which is very common in big wave surfing, or there's paddle surfing, which is way gnarlier. Like I said, like you can get caught in the wrong spot, whatever. but he told me I caught a 33-foot wave paddling

like when we measured it and I trust his judgment how does that feel? It felt pretty cool when I was doing it Did it feel bigger than any other wave you done? Not really So like I've surfed like 15, 20 I've surfed 30 foot waves a few times They all kind of feel the same to me

That's really interesting Like it's big you know Yeah So like for that one the cool thing about that wave was this guy like this local guy um

got a good story about this by the way he was paddling for it and like I could tell he wasn't going to catch it and uh I'm going to take it I'm going to take it back to the beginning so Will Scootin took me to Oregon and uh we rolled up and like

we like I was filming vlogs obviously So like we filmed the vlog like the day I got there and I like released it right away and like Will Scootin got like a phone call from one of his like local friends like heavy local friends and he's like what the fuck you guys do it? What do you, Ben Grave? He's just going to come here and like just blow up our spots like all this stuff and the guy's like we got to meet you guys like we gotta have a talk like we're gonna meet you guys at the coffee shop and like Will was like yeah yeah you're fucking out my program. Like, the locals are calling me. What are you dropping videos already? So anyway, we end up going to this local shop. This one guy is super cool.

Like, we roll in. He's like, look, guys, the ocean belongs to everybody. Like, we just want to know, like, sorry my buddy overreacted, but we just want to know, like, what your intentions are. Because, like, I get it, too. Like, we rolled out there. They might just think I'm some douchebag. It's like a protective father.

Yeah. What are your intentions with my wave? Exactly. Because they might just think I'm like fucking Johnny YouTube. Like, yeah, like, oh, here's the spot. Like, making a mockery of big wave surfing or whatever. Which, like, that's never my intention. Of course.

And it's like, I feel like some people might not watch my videos. And they just think, like, whatever, this guy filmed everything. He's a tool. But, like, I guess I feel like if you watch my videos, you'll realize. Yeah, you get the intention. You understand your spirit. Yeah. But if you see a title and a YouTube video and you're like a local surf guy,

you're like, what's this guy's? Yeah. What's this guy's problem? Yeah. So anyway, we end up having like the heavy meeting and with the boys, like the heavy locals. And they're pretty much like, what are you guys doing? I'm like, look, guys, like I have no intention of blowing up the spot. I have no intention of disrespecting it.

I don't want to make a mockery. I literally just want to ride some big ways. Like, I've never done it before. Like, I want to experience this. Like, I'm good friends with Will. Like, whatever. And we just talked it out. And then the other guy, the guy that was freaking out showed up.

he was like snapping in the beginning, like all gnarly. And then, but like, I don't know. I feel like my sense of humor. Like, we were like kind of just being like, you guys got it. Like whatever he needs, but like being funny about it. You know what I mean? So like eventually like we smoothed it over with all the boys. Like they were fine.

But then we went out for the session and then like you get out there and everyone's like high fiving and broing down and like everyone's hooting for each other and whatever. As soon as that anger. guy got his wave, he is cool for the rest of the day. He freaking went out, paddled into like a 25 footer right first wave of the day and then he's like, yeah, like now he's like cool. And like, dude, all he wanted, he was just stressing. Yeah, he just wanted to get the bomb. That's it. He thought, I'm like, dude, I'm never taking the bomb from me. I respect you guys. You guys got it. So they all ended up being super cool. And then the one guy, the first guy we met at the coffee shop,

that wave that I got, the 33 footer, he was paddling for. And it was. kind of a moment because he knew he couldn't get it and he kind of like went like go ben you know so like the heavy local like gave me the biggest wave of my life so it ended up being a really cool experience but i dropped in and this thing was towering over me six times over my head whatever and then like i got cocky and i'm like drawing a line up and i thought i could get barreled and do the thing just axed no axed and then dude the crazy thing about big wave surfing is it sends you like sent me like 20 feet underwater and then like you pop up

and you're like oh my God where was I I was in a vortex but super classic situation grateful for that so thanks Will

that's crazy so when you get crushed by a big wave you're still obviously leashed you get you get sent 20 feet down sent down yeah you need do you need to know how to fall like do you practice this we're like okay I'm about to get clipped

super deep breath close my eyes and then wait for my board to bring me up So serving's really weird Like the things that you think Are gonna just Absolutely destroy your body

Don't and then the things that you don't Do Like I don't know if you saw When I broke my collarbone last year It was on like a two foot wave And I literally Dropped in and the wave Just threw me over

And I hit the sand Oh fuck But then like in Yeah I broke it in like three pieces Dude it was like standing off No But like that wave like 20 feet of water

to landing on my head sent me down and like I came back up and I was just like I'm amped amped like let's go crazy but I will tell you this before I even caught a wave that day we did toe surfing in the morning before everyone was out there that's how you get like reps

you get a bunch of waves under your belt and then we went for the paddle session and I'm thinking like oh I caught a bunch of waves towing earlier like I know where the waves break I'm gonna sit further in than everyone else And that's where I learned my big, big wave surfing lesson of the sets break further out as the swells getting bigger. So I was sitting like where the waves were pitching because I thought that was the spot because I was just toe surfing all morning when really not realizing you have to paddle super hard from out the back and get in it way early and all this stuff. So I ended up catching before I even took a wave of that day.

I caught like a 25 footer on the head and I had to stand up and you. stand on your board and dive because you paddle towards the wave as fast as you can and then you have enough speed where you can stand up on the board on flat water and then you dive to try to get more depth

and I got rocked I got like toss turn and that's like where like you can feel the wave like take your body and like it'll bend your arm and you're like oh is this about to be bad and then like your knee will be sideways and then like

Like, like, people can get hurt. That much water is moving you. And it does this. Like, it, like, it, like, it like, it whips around underwater and it will just, it can mess your body up. But, like, for the most part, I feel like what I've put my body through, I've been lucky, but it can get nuts. I mean, that's crazy. Have you been out there where someone, like, really got hurt? I've seen a few just, like, I think pretty minor injuries.

Yeah. I broke my nose surfing, too. My board, like, hit me. I saw this kid like really mess up his knee He dove off and I think he hit the bottom And his knee was like sideways But for the most part I haven't seen like anything too gnarly

But this year at pipeline there was like a lot of people That got super injured I wasn't there for any of it but Does that mess the vibe up like if you're like You know this guy like almost drowned? Yeah yeah it's not it's because everyone's protective And they want to save the person you know And like so for like

for like hours after or that day like a lot of people probably i don't know for me that's like a kind of a sign i think what i mean to be like okay this guy got smoked like i'll probably take it easy the rest of the day but like i haven't really witnessed it but i would think that's how i would feel i guess um but uh would you say generally big wave is the most dangerous type of surfing um I would say waves like pipe or like Jopu in Tahiti, like waves where it doesn't have to be the biggest wave ever, but it ledges on the reef.

Like a lot of big waves, well Mavericks is kind of a different story because you've seen videos of Mavericks where it's like 50 foot and barreling. That's dangerous. But like waves like pipeline, where it goes from deep to shallow and it stands up and ledges and barrels,

that's where people get hurt. Because if it's a wave, like, let's say the wave I was surfing in Oregon, like, yeah, it's 30 foot. But if you get hit by it, chances are you're going to get pummeled, dragged around, flipped upside down, and you have a better chance of drowning, then you do, like, hitting the bottom or breaking a bone or something. And that's the most dangerous thing is getting hit or, like, hitting the reef.

The most dangerous thing would be going over, hitting the reef, hitting your head, getting knocked down. And then that's it. That's how a lot of people. get hurt at pipeline. Because, like, yeah, the big wave, you're just getting washed in and tossed. But you're going to come up. Yeah, for the most part, with the flotation and for the most part, you should be good.

So, waves like pipeline. And how close is the reef on pipe? Dude, it can be like a foot. I mean, that's crazy. Yeah, it can be like, because pipe is like this, it's like a super flat shallow reef in the takeoff area. And then the reason it tapers off is because it gets a little deeper or turn. into sand, it kind of depends on like the time of the year.

But right at the takeoff and usually going back door when people go right, I feel like a lot of people get hurt because if you get taken over right at the top and slammed under that lip, that's when it can be like three feet deep, a foot deep. Like it can be super gnarly. Like I've hit the reef at backdoor a few times. Really? Just like your shoulder? Shoulder, side slam.

And just on smaller ways and whatever. And then, like, a few times I've gone out, and this one time in particular I went out and, like, I was just feeling it, you know? So, like, I just swung on, like, a way that no one wanted. And, like, that's usually a bad sign. No one wants it. And I took it. And it was, like, a big backdoor barrel. And, like, I'm regular foot.

So I like backdoor and I like rights. So I was just, like, feeling it. And it just bottomed out. And, like, it sucked me. up and like as I went up I like saw the reef and I was like now I see I know I wanted this one but it like tossed me a couple times around like in the barrel before I hit and I hit and I just didn't hit the reef or anything I just hit the water and got lucky and I kind of popped up and I was like thank you God like thanks for the wake-up call yeah that's a little now I know what I need to be

doing out here and it's not taking the first wave of the set like that so like it's a lot of spiritual signs and I feel like just trying to like read the situation in front of you. What are some of the superstitions that you abide by when it comes to surf? Is there ever like, oh, I don't wear this color or I don't put on this thing? Or if I see this, I got to go. I think for me it's mostly just all feeling. Like there's not certain rituals that I do really, but like sometimes it just feels sharky and you're out of there. Are there general rituals that like people abide by?

Like there's like a thing with like fishing like no banana. on the boat. Oh yeah. You've heard this? Yeah, I've had to throw some bananas off too. Sounds like a classic fishing thing. Is there anything like that with surfing where it's like no X when you're doing Y? Dude, I might be tripping, but I can't think of anything like that. Like always wax your board. Always waxed your board.

But like, yeah, I mean, I think it's just more stuff that like maybe people don't talk about really. Or it's like every break is unique. but it's like, yeah, don't take the first wave of the set at certain breaks, like, or don't. Yeah. But that's more like a practical thing. Yeah. Like there's something associated with that still.

But as far as like that kind of thing, like superstitions, I can't really think of anything. And I don't really practice anything. I just always am just feeling it out. Yeah. And sometimes like a session could be like super dangerous, but I'm just like in a good mode. My head's working and like it's good. Like I'm charging. Yeah.

I'm ready for the danger. Yeah. And I feel good. and then like other times, like, it's not even that sketchy and I'm just like, this ain't for me. Mm-hmm. And like, I think you have to just believe and follow that. Yeah.

And I think that's the, definitely the best, like, way to go about it. Because, yeah, if you're turned on all the time trying to charge and trying to prove something, that's, I feel like we're going to hit a wall. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At a New Smyrna, which is like the beach I was always at, just even just like hanging out, just like in high school,

we just got like drink on the beach or, you know, just parties and shit at New Smyrna. but that was the shark bike capital of the world oh yeah the sharks everywhere everywhere like it was like the number one spot there are sharks absolutely everywhere and but it's like spinner sharks it was like little little spinner guys yeah and so these are like little sharks that are probably like I don't know two three feet they like jump out of the water and they actually do this cool thing where like they'll sit at the bottom see little fish and then jump up grab the fish and jump out of the water and then land and that's why they call spinner sharks like they're

like they're spinning out of the water but they're super cool but they're like little and they're just like nibbling on people all day. They like knit people, right? So like I have so many friends that have shark bites. It's like no one really loses any limbs or nothing or like even a toe, but it'll just be like, oh yeah, on my calf, there's this little scar. It's like that big of just like a little shark bite. So in the times you've been surfing, have you seen sharks like that? Like what is the vibe and the sense when it comes to sharks or sea creatures?

All right. The only time I've ever seen a shark eye is that seaside reef in California. and it's in San Diego and it was like it was like a there's a certain word for it is a baby great white juvenile great white and the fin was up

and I literally I don't know what is wrong with me but I was like dude there's a shark I like rolled my GoPro and just started paddling towards it and I was like this is sick there's a shark so then I got like five or six feet away from it I was like, yo, what am I doing? What's wrong with me?

And I just took a wave in. Like I got like a shivered down my spine and like freaked out, like went in. How big was it? It was like seven feet. What? Seven feet long. But like someone told me after that if you can see the fin above the water like that, they're not hunting.

So like I was safe and I was like, could have got a shot. So you were just chilling with a great wife for a little? I was super stoked when I saw it. And then I like quickly earlier. that I'm insane. Like, what was I thinking? Did you get any footage of it?

I got, like, kind of some footage, but my freaking camera was in Superview because I was filming surfing and you want it wide. So, like, you can see the fin, but it's so, you know how it is with those cameras, dude? It wasn't what I was looking for.

Oh, that's crazy. But then it's one of those things where, like, if I dipped it underwater, I definitely would have gotten a shot, but I wasn't thinking. I was thinking I was too far away to dip it. Yeah. But it was cool.

I got a little bit of footage of it. That's sketch. It's pretty cool. And then I've been in the water a few times when people thought they saw sharks and stuff. But it's more of a general vibe for me. Like, if I feel like there's a shark, I'll get out. If someone says they saw one and I still don't feel like I don't feel the vibe, I'll stay in. Oh, crazy.

I don't know. What about dolphins? You ever see dolphins? A lot of dolphins. Really? Yeah. They're kind of sick, right? Like, you ever surf with them?

Yeah. Dude, like on the wave. Yeah. It's rad. happens. It's like magical. It's like we were surfing Hurricane Larry like three years ago. We were surfing this outer shoal.

Like in New Jersey and in between some of the inlets there's a sandbar that's like a mile out. And dude, we were doing the step-boss with the jet ski because it's like far out. And I just got a couple ways where I was riding. And out on the shoals like the waves will pitch but they won't like break for a while.

They'll just like pitch like the lip like you can see the lip but it's not breaking but you can like ride them and carve and it was sick because we were riding the rights and the dolphins would just be in the wave diving in front of us and it was just like magical experience dude and you're just like dude I'm in the right spot right now because like this is

that's a good sign universal yeah like universal energy or whatever like they're riding the wave we're sharing that energy yeah I don't know how to like it was good for the dolphins is good for me yeah I mean like they live here yeah if it's like those are the locals Those are the heavy locals. Like so local.

You know what I mean? And then I got a friend who's afraid of dolphins, dude. No. How? His name's Palm Beach Perry. I don't know. When we go on the jet ski,

he's like, I'm not going near those dolphins, dude. I'm just like, dude. Well, you know, did these dolphins be,

you know, they be, you know, have you heard about this? No. You never heard about this, dude? No. The dolphins can, like,

get after it. Like, they're like, sexually deviant. Really? Yeah, dude. I've like heard stories about it. This isn't from South Park? Also from Southwere, that's where I learned a lot of the science from

But no dolphins will get up there and they'll start fucking wiggling on you Really? They're little creeps That would Okay, wait I don't want to generalize all dolphins Dude something Was it a dolphin?

There's probably some dolphin Shill ones Something like lobbed up on my board once I don't think it was a dolphin I can't remember What was it like a Maybe like a Puerto Rican guys What you're talking about?

I do you not know what it was Dude because like you know you ever have like a distant memory that you're like Oh dude that happened but like I care. Oh yeah, it's kind of foggy. Yeah. Yeah.

You might need to recess. Some type of animal. You might need to do some ketamine therapy. Find it. You can get that. You love ketamine therapy, huh? Die. Oh, yeah.

The fur? Do they know about that? Yeah. Actually, I don't know. I haven't really talked about that. Should like insert like a... Yeah. There's got to be a way to use it,

but for now it's just like, if I ever get kicked out, I'm just going to sleep in the tree house. Did you build that? Yeah. Why? Just for vibes. For vibes?

Yeah. Couldn't think anything else? No. Sometimes you just need a treehouse, dude. It's true. What else you're going to do with that? This set is like a little bit of, I don't know, maybe you didn't get to have this when you were a kid or something?

Like I had a big-ass tree house when I was a kid. Why are you psychoanalyzed? You're like, oh yeah, maybe you got molested or what do you think? Bringing up dolphins, dude. Maybe just want to be a kid forever? Yeah, basically. That's what surfing is. Yeah, damn near.

No, I just, honestly, the set is just like, what is the best way for human beings to communicate? Yeah. And it's like being out in the woods. Camping. Camping, dude. Genuinely. Like, it's the best way. I've felt good the whole time I was here, dude. Yeah. That's what I'm saying, dude. Have you gone, like, surfing, camping? Like, where you just camp out? No, but like... Wake up and then go. I always, like, dreamed about that. But that's what I was doing the van life thing for. Like, I would just park and be like, all right, we're waking up. And the only thing I have to worry about is, like, surfing a state tomorrow. And, like, I'd wait. up in the van and be like dude going to serve Arkansas that's a nice little lifestyle

huh it's cool it's fun what was it like why could you not do that forever I probably could but the only thing that would be holding me back is like how could I could I continue to keep people interested in the 50 states mm-hmm you know for views yeah it's like at the end of the day I gotta get views yeah to continue my career. So we got to keep pushing it. We got to keep finding the frontier. So I got to keep chaining it up. Yeah. Yeah. It was cool for a while though. I think it was the everything happened in the perfect time because like I feel like if I was doing that now like people now expect me to surf like better waves. They expect me to go on crazier adventures. But then it was perfect. Yeah.

It's it's been like a slow growing process, you know. And all the times you've been traveling, not even including like not even looking at the surfing component. what's the most dangerous thing that's happened to you on your travels have you ever been robbed has anyone ever been like oh you're sleeping in your van like are you on drugs been arrested i got woke up by the police one time banging on the thing and dude that was the scariest thing ever it's sketchy right and then another time i was with my wife and i was like let's just sleep in the van let's just sleep in the van and she's like no she forced me to get a hotel room this is in massachusetts because it was going to be like freezing right so she made me get a hotel room woke up the next morning

van window was smashed. They stole $3 in cash like out of my little thing. You could barely see it. I don't even know how they saw the money sitting there. $3? $3. And I was like, good thing we didn't sleep in the van. Like robbers must feel so dumb.

Sometimes. So it's so good. I see cash. Then they're like three bucks. What can you get with three bucks? McDonald's? Barely. They want crack though. Yeah.

Right. But what's crack going for? Like what's the market rate on crap? Probably more than $3. That's what I'm saying. In this economy? How many cars you got to break just to get like $30?

10 cars just to get $30. And that was the only broken window in the whole row. So they obviously saw like the three bucks and they're like... I wonder if they saw your van and they're like, there's probably crack in here. Like they were really looking for crack and they're like, damn, it's just money.

So a picture if I made my wife sleep in there we got the windows smashed, dude, that would be so heavy. You'd wake up just glass hitting it? You're like, what the fuck? And then the guy would be like, yo, where's the money? Take the $3.

Yeah, you have to give it to him. And then you have to try to go back to sleep after your windows got crushed in. Oh, dude. Yeah, that would suck. But never anything dangerous. We were just like traveling around, people fuck with you.

Nah, not really, dude. Honestly. That's cool, actually. I don't know. I don't know. I feel like I'm just like out there. Maybe I'm just like in my own world or something.

Do you believe in God? Yeah. Like, is it a religious God or is it like a... No. It's just like higher being. Okay, so like I just, I went from like, I went from like Christianity. Yeah. I grew up Protestant, United Methodist.

Mom forced me to go to church. And then like when I got old enough where I could say no, I like, I like, like, God was out, dude. Didn't believe in it at all. And then when I got... So I quit drinking. I got completely sober from everything, but drinking was my issue. You were drinking a lot? I drank every day in my life.

Oh, really? Every day. From when to when? Probably from 18 or not. I probably started drinking. I was introduced to alcohol at like 13. Started partying heavy at 15. Probably from like 18 or 19 to like 25.

I probably, it just was a slow, slippery slope. So by the time I was 25, 26, I drank every day. I'd buy a 30 pack of bush light every day in my life, dude. Bush lights, dude. Natty light, bushline. Boozing off light beers. Back in the day, dude, back in my day, dude, that shit was like $15 a 30 pack. Yeah.

Yeah. So you were just a, you were an economic drinker. You were like, what can I get for 30 bucks? You're breaking windows trying to find $3. Just like, yeah, let me get a bush. Never got that bit. But I do remember there was a point when I had $60 in my bank account

and I remember my dad was like ripping on me he's like what are you gonna do? And I was like I can go to Maynard's three nights with 60 bucks dude I'm good. Wow. Like I can go to the bar for three nights

bro. And you literally saw like the amount of nights you could go out and get fucked up. Yeah. Are you blacking out most of these times? Man I never really was like a big I never blacked out that much because I drank a lot of beer I would be like two shots at the bar guy

but a lot of brownouts Yeah you know like where you're kind of foggy Oh that thing happened Yeah And then like Just like for me it was it was I don't know I'm like pretty spiritual

And for me it just crushed my spirit Crush my soul Crush my ambitions And it wasn't necessarily I don't think the physical dependency Like a lot of people say like if they're an alcoholic, like, they're physically dependent on the alcohol.

I don't know if it was that. Because, like, I definitely had withdrawals. I'd go through depression and stuff if I didn't drink, but it was more so the lifestyle, I think, I was addicted to, like that. Just, like, being around people like that, like. And I don't know. There's something about, like, I was talking about it a little bit earlier, but, like, when I had to not surf and I had to,

to be like a normal person, I really hated myself and like I kind of hated like the fact that I couldn't do what I wanted to do with my life. But that was a block that I put on my own brain, I feel like. I was like, well, if I can't be a pro server,

fuck it. You know what I mean? What was the point of anything? Yeah. So I was kind of just going through the motions of college and life and I loved video production, but I didn't find a way to do it passionately for myself.

I was always working for someone else, and I think it, I don't know, it was just like a lot of, I hated myself at that point in my life. But in those days, I really got away from God and spirituality and everything. So when I decided to get sober, which was Christmas morning, 2015,

I sobriety was a crazy wake-up call for me spiritually emotionally like for someone like me who numbed themselves for years getting sober like did I would just like cry I'd be like fuck do like I would just be like how beautiful is life like I forgot that this existed and that's how I started my vlog I started surfing every day because I missed it so much and I because of drinking and my life and everything I was away from it. So I started surfing and vlogging and the vlog was kind of, what do you call that? It was like therapy for me. It cathartic.

Yeah, it was like, and it kept me, I guess it kept me honest, the vlog. Because I vlogged every day when I first started. And I'd be like, all right, I'm not drinking today because I'm going to vlog. And how many views you were getting at this point? Negative five. Like it started real slow, 50, 60 views. That's awesome. And then 300, 400,

by the end of the first year, I was getting like a thousand views of vlog. And you were stuck on that? Super stoked. Did I remember the first time I made $1,000 in one month? I was like, this is it. That's when I quit editing.

Oh, really? A thousand bucks a month. That's pretty sick. That's sick. Yeah, this will do. Looking back, I feel like I'm nuts. But like the Ben today, looking at that Ben,

I'm like, you're a dreamer, buddy. Yeah. You know. You needed that, though. Good for you, though. You needed that. But being there, that was everything to me. Yeah.

And the sober high, it was like two years, I feel like. And then I remember when, I feel like reality hit me at a certain point. And my wife, who is also in, she's in the program, she's been clean for like 10 years. She told me like, that's called the pink. I think she called it like the pink. cloud or the pink balloon popping or something like when reality sets in after you're sober it took like a year and a half or two years or whatever um but like like i was saying like i'd just be like i was so emotional and like i connected back with spirituality and i just believed in the universe

and i saw the oneness of everything and i just believed in like i felt like everyone could win and like it is looking back it's it was a magical time because now i'm a little bit bit more like, I guess, beaten down by society and normalcy and everything. And I'm a little more cynical. Yeah. But back then, I thought everyone could win. It was beautiful. The world was magic. Like, we could all do this. And it was a great time in my life, dude. And the vlog would never have been if I didn't have that mindset. I couldn't have done the 50 states. I couldn't have done everything I've done. Because you got a second chance kind of. Like you feel like you were like reborn. Well, yeah. And surfing, I accidentally became a pro surfer.

Well, I semi-pro surfer, but I accidentally became able to surf for a living. Right. From that whole sober experience and everything. Because once my videos got popular, then I got sponsors again and stuff. And then like, it's kind of all just been like a fun experiment. Because when you started making the vlog, you never thought like, oh, I'll do this and then I'll get views and then I'll make the money and then I'll convert to. No. It was literally just to keep yourself on.

I was like, dude, if I do this, I'll stay sober. That's it. Wow. So it was a very honest, like, very pure thing. Because, like, now I'm like, okay, well, I got to, now it's more business, you know? Yeah, of course. But back then it was like, yeah, it was pure. It was like, all I have to do is make it to tomorrow.

Yeah. You know, and that's why the 50 states is beautiful. It was like a checklist for me. And then, like, by the end of the 50 states, like, I had, like, sponsors and it's fucking crazy dude and how early in that process you do the 50 states um i started the 50 states in 2017 okay so like a year after you got a year and some change yeah but then i already had like i think i had like 14 states done by accident because i was like driving around and like trying to surf and stuff and uh yeah i forget where this whole story started

but no this is like this is the kind of stuff that i'm really interested in like that that journey of like, okay, I'm like alcohol is ruining me, getting disconnected from spirituality. Oh yeah, that's what we're talking about. This vlog connects you back to who you are, to yourself, keeps you honest. Yeah. And then that honesty, I think, ultimately probably merges you with like your spirit. Yeah. And then, yeah, then I was all into like universal energy and stuff.

And then I don't know. I've just, I've just slowly as I've gotten older been like, I think I've seen evil kind of show itself in weird ways in my life and like temptation and stuff and I'm like I feel like there is like you know it's not the Jesus with a beard but there's a force there's a negative

force and a positive force there's like a god and like a devil I think yeah I don't know I choose to just like live like positively and try to do good things and like I think everyone knows what's good and bad

right so like you know for the most part but like I know what's good and bad and I know what hurts people and doesn't and I just try to stay

on the path of righteousness just like the good side of things and when I pray I talk to God I'm like hey God like we've got to chat about this not getting enough views dude yeah

I don't know if you know the people at Google but maybe you could talk to them Jesus, please put me back in the algorithm. Do I need to make shorts? What do I need to do? I really hate short-form content. I feel like it's the devil. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I just want to surf and show people what it's like. That's so funny. But, yeah, I feel like I just got driven back to that. And are you completely sober? Do you, like, smoke weed, mushrooms? Nothing. Really? Coffee.

Caffeine. Did you ever do, like, psychedelic drugs, like, early on? No, but. But I feel like weed affects everyone differently. And I've had full-blown hallucinations from weed. I never liked weed. Every time I smoked it, I'd hallucinate and hear voices and bug out and see colors and shit. Yeah.

And I'd always ask my friends and they're like, dude, what are you talking about? And I'm like, dude, I think it affects me differently than, like, because weed can be like a psychedelic. Yeah, yeah. From the research I've done. I feel that way. And so I quit smoking weed probably a year before I quit drinking. Because I was just like, you know what, it's been too many, I don't like it. That's how I feel.

I'm like 50-50. I've like smoked weed probably like, let's say 20 times. Ten of the times have been so fun. It's like me and my friends just laughing, like watching a movie, like the best movie ever. Then the other 10 times are like pretty heavy, like weird, paranoid, like kind of seeing shit, like having these thoughts that are like scare me where I'm like, dude. Yeah, okay. Dude. So maybe you're a little bit similar.

Type shit. I'm like, literally one time I smoked with my buddy over here and then I would just like, immediately, it was like, hey, dude, I got to go home. Just like immediately. Like the thing that happened. I know the feeling. Bro, like, I even told him, I was like, I don't really do well with weed, so I'm going to do a really small amount.

He was like, all right, cool. So I did this, like, I couldn't even explain to you how small it was. Immediately, I'm like, well, I'm going to go home. And he was like, you go? I was like, no. And so I immediately text my wife, like, as like I feel like kind of coming on. like oh I'm about to be too high when it sets in it's gnarly I text her I'm just like hey just so you know I smoked my buddy I just need you to kind of just bring me down okay and she was like all right let's go and so I'm climbing the steps to my place it's like a three story walk up up up I'm going I finally hit the top step at this point I'm just too high I'm just like so anxious I'm thinking about the planets I'm like our planets even real like how are they even up there like just losing it and then I was like human beings like we're just apes I guess like we're like primates that just walk around like with language. And I saw my wife and I was like, you're not even a person, you're just another

primate. We're all primates, dude. And I'm just, and that was freaked me out because I was like, is everything alive? Is God real? Like if we're primates, like, is there a guy? And I was, dude, not having a good time. And then my wife was like laying there like petting my hair and I was like, this is exactly what a primate would do. This is exactly what like a chimpanzee would do right now. Like, we're definitely chimps. And I was like, fuck. And I was like writing it down in my notes. just being like, let's see if this makes sense tomorrow. And I fell asleep, woke up, felt like super kind of foggy the next day,

but came back. And I was like, yeah, I'm good. And that was the last time I ever smoked. That was like a year ago. Yeah. I'm good. I don't need all this, dude. Think about primates and shit.

It's too much, dude. Too much reality. Maybe not enough. I don't know if it's too much or not enough. All I know is that the weed that were smoking, God had nothing to do with them. This is not real weed. That's true.

This is science weed, dude. There's something else going on. There's too much science. In the wheat, right? It's crazy. But that's interesting, you had all these, like, realizations of oneness

and, like, universal sort of, like, global unity without, like, any psychedelic drugs. I hear that, and people have, like,

mushroom experiences. Yeah, I think, I think I, I suppressed my understanding for so long. Because I literally, like, dude,

I would not, like, I would drink a lot. Yeah. And it's, like, 72 hours. before alcohol is completely out of your system. And I think I

had it suppressed for so long. And yeah, dude, I got everything I wanted that I was chasing by drinking from getting sober. What do you mean about it? Like all those, the feelings I wanted from drinking and being around people and partying.

Confidence, acceptance, feeling like you're a part of the thing that's happening and that you're actually cool and that people like you. Well, I just dropped all that as soon as like a couple months into being sober I was like I want to be lame fucking this rules let me get a wife and a house

and like a dog and like let me just surf as much as I can dude there's there's there's beauty to like living a normal life yeah like it's fucking awesome I don't like I've been able to experience some awesome stuff from like what I do for a living but like I don't want anything to do with like being like a rock star lifestyle at

all. Zero percent. Yeah, it's an interesting thing. I was actually talking to a friend of mine. He was like, you know, like, how do I make my kids like great? You know what I mean? Like, if I'm, you know, if like they're too coddled, like, they won't be great. But if like, you know, they're like they need a little bit of like, you know, toughness and like bad things to happen to make them resilient. Like, how do you balance that, yada yada? And I was thinking about it. I was like, if your kid like grows up to like live a regular life and like three kids that love them and like a job, he really loves.

likes. Fucking won. He's like, he's great. Yeah. You know what I mean? He did something truly great. Like,

that is like, that's borderline harder to do than like being, I don't know, like disordinately successful in a career, I guess, which sounds inverse.

Like, you would think, like, no, living regular life is easier than, and by regular life, I mean, like,

happy. Yeah. Like, there's this guy, I forget his name, Neval, something. He's on Twitter at Naval.

He's like, a tech startup guy that's just like a genius genuinely he has like all these like Twitter storms where he just like tweets life advice very wealthy like very smart worked in all these companies like in the startup space like but just really really well thought out and is one of these guys that like in Silicon Valley like tech world that actually has his head on straight and like has like really cool life advice and he said these three things he's like look the way i see the world everything else is kind of irrelevant if you don't have these three things And he was like, he described them this way.

And I think the way he described it was actually important. He's like a calm mind, calm specifically. I thought it was like such a great way to put it. A calm mind, fit body, a house full of love. And I was like, I've heard versions of that before. Yeah. But that, the way he described that was like so precise that I was like, that's really all you need, dude. Everything else is kind of super fit.

Like it's like the other things around that are great. but calm mind like just being at peace how hard is that alone you know what I mean fit body like with everything fit body you can't even control like if you get sick

like that's not on you yeah and then a house full of love like kids and a wife that like really love you like that's if you get those three things that's so hard yeah

yeah so true well like in this day and age too like not only like just I mean your area specifically New York but like where I'm live to the Jersey Shore, it's like we see like wealth, right? And then

not only that, we see Instagram where like people are just flexing. Yeah. And then like, I'm just grateful that like none of that affects me. But like I have friends that just like they just don't stop. And like their mental health is affected by what they see around

them and the thought that they'll never get it. And I'm like, dude, you got to stop. Most of it's fake. And just you got to not give a fuck about that. You got to give a fuck about what's right in front of you. What you have and be grateful for, because you might have things that people that you are jealous of don't have. Yeah. It's tricky to have that perspective if you haven't been around it.

You know what I mean? Like growing up, I grew up in like a pretty like well off little community. I went to like a private school. Like the college I went to was like very wealthy. Like it was like kids of like tech CEOs type shit. Yeah. Like some of these kids that I knew, I wasn't really tight with them. But like some of the kids that I was in class with were like taking private jets on the weekend type of shit.

And it was through that. experience of seeing extreme wealth and how like still kind of miserable they were. Yeah. That I was like, oh, God. I understand the depth of the game here. Yeah. Like I was an RA for a couple of years when I was in college. So I could live on campus.

Yeah, yeah. And so I would like do like low-key counseling sessions with some of the kids. Yeah, I'm sure. And so I'm having like heart-to-heart conversations with a kid whose dad is like running some major company that you would know of. Yeah. the kid is every all access to everything and it's just like fucking measurable damn money means nothing ambition means nothing i have everything i want everything i thought i wanted but his mind is not

calm he's smoking all the time and like drinking the fuck ton to feel something his body's not fit and he doesn't have a girlfriend he doesn't want to get married and i don't know like if you can have a house full of love without that so it's like damn those three things that seem like the easiest things, the cheapest things, even with all the money in the world, it actually makes it harder to get. Yeah. Dude, it's just like, I mean, we adopted a rescue dog last year, Dennis. And it did I truly believe it's the greatest thing I've ever done?

Like, he was eight years old, surrendered to the ACCCT in Philadelphia, the kill shelter. He was rescued from that shelter by another shelter, and then we adopted him. We brought him home for Thanksgiving. We were only supposed to have him for four days, and I adopted him the same. second day. No. And um, dude, it's like the house full of love thing just like clicking with me right now because like he's the reason like I've, you know, I'm in love with my wife. Love of my life. I'm married her for a reason, but like bringing that dog into my life, dude, changed everything. It really does. He made us a family, dude. Like it's crazy.

But, uh, yeah, it is. But what I was going to say to your point is like small practices every day that like people would either see as meaningless or never even think about, but like just getting up, taking Dennis out, taking them for a walk, doing these small things at home are like these tiny little practices that create that environment,

I believe, for like a happy life. Yeah. And it's so weird because you just skip right over all that stuff in your mind. You never think about it. Yeah. That's the beauty of stuff like that and responsibility and taking out responsibility. Yeah, for sure. I don't have any kids myself yet, but like all my siblings have kids. I have like 14, little nieces and nephews.

And I think about them so much because anytime I go home and I do stuff, I always try to bring a kid with me So like yeah gotta go to the store all right, who's coming with me? Like and I enjoy the practice One because they're not my kids so I can just like you feel around with them Yeah, there's no responsibility like we just like talk shit But kids anytime you do something with kids they slow you down Yeah, which is annoying yeah, but it's also the point absolutely you know what I mean like You go do an errand with kids like it takes twice and much time just like put them in a cars you have to get them out like they're asking questions like they're you have to get the stroll you

got to put them in it like they're grabbing stuff like it slows down everything and the maybe that's the reason that they're there for you just to slow shit down you know what I mean like Dennis is stuff that you have to deal with yeah well even like when we were in florida this past week like we rolled up to the beach this one time and like I didn't expect there to be waves but I just had Dennis and Jordan with me. And like there was like this perfect little wave peeling down the line and I was like, well, I can't surf because I got Dennis. I can't leave him in the car. It's too hot. And then I'm like, but who gives a fuck? The point of all this is for me to be on this beautiful beach right here with Jordan and my dog. It's just as perfect because the 2017 band would have ran to the car, got the

board, went out, got a couple GoPro shots. Fuck everybody. I don't care what you guys need. I'm doing what I need. And it's like, and then like I was thinking. Like even if I went out there and caught a couple ways, like, yeah, would I even be as fulfilled as I am now? And I was like, no. And it's kind of crazy. Like, but like you're saying, responsibility really is that thing that makes you like, I guess whole would be the word. Yeah. It's crazy, man.

But I think it scares a lot of people because they're like, for sure. Once I have responsibility, then my life is going to be way different because I can't do what I want. Yeah. But sometimes the things you want is to be in charge of something and be responsible for something yeah I don't know man I think like the perspective you have on this stuff is really really cool thanks bro I think it's like a major contributing factors to like all the success you've had like it's for me at least it really comes through in the vlogs thanks dude like there's a purity to it like it's not overdone it's not I don't

feel like you're like trying to sell me on something you know what I mean thanks it feels honest I appreciate it yeah gotta give a lot of credit to my wife did because I'll be like hey kind of looks like there's gonna be some pretty good ways in France. And she's like, cool, have fun. You know, I'll watch the dog. It's fucking amazing, dude. Yeah, what is your general, like, advice for people that want to try to turn a hobby into a career? Fuck what everybody else thinks. Because the only way that you're ever going to make anything happen is by going, there's 100% and there's trying. And then there's wanting it more. more than anything else.

Because, like we talked about before, mine was half, like, almost a mistake. But I wanted, what I cared about was my clarity and all that. And it just so happened that vlogs was part of that. But as this had become a business for me, and the novelty thing in the 50 states and all these things that I've accomplished, I wanted them.

I put in 100% to get 10% back and you can't be scared of that. You have to be ready to put in everything that you have and fail. And the thing about life is that everything that you do happens one step at a time. You're not going to go from starting your YouTube channel to having a million subscribers.

You're going to earn those subscribers one at a time, one foot in front of the other, and by putting yourself out there truly and trying. Like, you can't second guess what you believe in. If you believe in it, you can make it happen. And you can't be thinking, oh, what if this guy doesn't think I'm cool? What if I get there and the waves aren't good?

What if, you know, you just have to be like, I'm going to try as hard as I can and see what happens. And that's everything that I've accomplished, literally just. just being like, I'm going to try as hard as I can. I don't care what anybody thinks. Bad stuff's going to happen to me, but what are you going to do? Yeah. I'm going to try as hard as I possibly can. I like that point of like, yo, I'm going to give everything.

And even if I get nothing back, it's still worth it. Yeah. Will you learn? Yeah. And if there's something that you're considering, like, okay, I'm going to dedicate a lot of time and energy to this. And if I get nothing back, like, that would be heartbreaking and, like, crushing for me, and I'd probably quit.

It's like, I don't know if that's the thing. thing you should dedicate to. Yeah, well, I have a couple friends who asked me for advice when they started their YouTube channels and this and that. And they're like, if it's not working after six months, you know, and I'm just like, what do you mean working? I didn't have, like, this wasn't a choice for me. This wasn't working or not working.

Yeah. It was. Yeah. There was no, oh, I'm going to bail. It was just like, this is it. So, yeah. Yeah, there's no other way that it could go. I'm just going to do this until the wheels fall until the end of time.

Like until I can't do them anymore physically, I'm just going to keep on making them. Exactly. And if a million people are watching or 100 people are watching, like, I'm still making them. And I think expectations can hurt you too. Because like there's this thing like if you're living in the past, you're depressed, if you're living in the future, you have anxiety or something like that. That's funny. I like that. You know what I mean?

I like that. Like expectations are just putting anxiety. on what you're doing. Like, for me, it's just like, I'm here right now. I'm going to try as hard as I can. And I feel like I just maybe just have a super blue-collar mindset towards everything because of how I was raised. And I got to give a lot of credit to my dad for just...

I meant to bring him up multiple times through the... When we were talking, but just he's... He did landscaping and he built driveways and he's done like... development and a bunch of just like construction type stuff and he's just instilled like so much like never give up spirit like just every day just one foot in front of the other just not entitled to anything no he's the man dude yeah guy still works really he's the man oh that's so cool yeah have you ever bought him anything have really like got him a gift or like i won't take it really he's that kind of got yeah oh that's so like a trip or something like hey dad we're gonna go on

i tried to take him to Costa rica did he He's just like, he might let me one day. That's sick. Because I want to take him with like a really long wave, you know, where he can just cruise. Because he likes surfing. Yeah, he loves surfing. He never gets to do it. But, yeah, he instilled so much just like blue collar fucking.

And is he happy that you get to do this and not have to work construction? He can't even believe it. He blows his mind, right? He's mind blood. He doesn't even understand half of it. And then like. But he's like, you surf. And if you just film.

it, then you get to keep on surfing. Well, he watches YouTube now. Like, he watches everyone's videos and stuff. Oh, that's sick. And, like, he's, like, it's funny, though, because he, like, analyzes it and stuff. Like, he's still got the old school mindset. You know, he analyzes it so differently.

What do you mean? And, like, sometimes he takes stuff, like, way heavier than he shows. You know what I mean? He's like, are people mad at you? You know? Oh, yeah, like, he'll read comments. And he'll be, like, this video sucks. And he's like, yo, do you know Penguin Guy?

Yeah. Penguin Guy 46 is, like, talking mad shit. Yeah, yeah. But then like, yeah, he, he kind of gets it the, it's funny, man. But, yeah, dude, it's a different world. This whole thing is fucking crazy. Yeah. It's cool to try to, like, explain to your parents.

Like, yo, it's working. Like, I'm able to really do this. Yeah. And I think more and more, I hope that people can do that where, like, they really can just focus in on, like, what they really care about. And try to, and be able to turn that into a way to live a life. Yeah, for sure. A lifestyle. Well, like I brought up, people online looking at other stuff and just wanting it or being jealous or whatever.

And like, I think the biggest thing for me has always been like, I guess just working on being comfortable in my own skin. And like, just like being very happy about what I have or what I've accomplished or like just enjoying the work. I think because the work's never over. and I think if you enjoy that ride and that grind and that. There's a lot of beauty to it, dude. Yeah. Like embracing that. Because if you want to skip to the finish line, like, what's the point?

You know? I don't know. No, I do think about that. Someone even told me that idea. Like, what is the point of watching a movie? You know what I mean? Like, is the point to, like, finish it? Is the point to, like, know what happens at the end?

Or is the point to watch the movie? The point of the thing is to experience the thing itself. And so if you're so focused on getting to the end of the movie, it's like, well, you're missing the point of what the movie's actually for is to enjoy the really stressful part where you think the main character is done. Yeah. Or the really, like, cool part where they, you know, win the thing.

Like, the whole point is to experience it. Yeah, and I guess if you're winning, like, if you're winning every day, like, you're not going to win every hour or every minute. Like, there's no shot. Actually, you might not even win every day. But if you're winning for yourself or like you're taking every loss and being like, I can come back from this or like this is a good lesson for me or like maybe that's just straight up sucks. And I got to move on.

Yeah, yeah. But like if you're winning along the way every as you go, then like you're winning. If it all gets stripped away from you, whatever. Yeah. The experience was great. Exactly. So like. And trying to look at the experience positively.

Like I always think about this like whenever I work out. whenever I'm lifting the small weights that I was. I literally always think, like, man, there's someone out there that wishes they could experience the pain that I'm feeling. Like, there's probably a dude that was in the military. They got his legs fucking blown off. That's like, man, I wish I could, like, do a squat. And I'm over here being like, I don't feel like squatting today.

But I think about that guy and I'm like, man, he, I'm so grateful for my problems. I'm so grateful for the pain I get to feel. I'm so grateful for, like, the things I get to endure. Because there's so many people that wish they could endure those things. They wish they could even get the chance to feel that pain. So all of a sudden you start thinking less about the pain and more about how grateful you are. You even get to do it in the first place.

Calm mind, fit body, house full of love. I think we figured it out. Mr. Gravy. I appreciate you, brother. This was very fun. At this point, everyone knows you. Everyone on the wave knows you. You're a household name.

Thanks, brother. But then specific households. Okay. but Ben Gravy vlogs all over dropping shit all the time merch line going crazy people should check it out

thank you so much for being here man thanks dude I appreciate it let's do it again I enjoy camp let's do it again baby peace