Camp Gagnon - SERVING The Ultra Wealthy: Joe Rogan, DiCaprio, Guy Fieri

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

Phillip Frankland Lee, also known as Chef Phil—legendary chef, businessman, and friend—joins us today to talk about his incredible culinary career. We’ll discuss what it means to be a white sushi chef, the origins of sushi, serving Joe Rogan for the first time, going on Guy Fieri's Grocery Games, cooking for the ultra wealthy, and other interesting topics… WELCOME TO CAMP! 🏕️Shoutout to our sponsors: Odoo, Morgan & Morgan, and BlueChewTry Odoo with a 14-day free trial at: http://Odoo.com/CAMP👕🧢 GET YOUR CAMP DRIP HERE: http://camp-rd.com🏕️ Get Today In History Email Here (Free): https://camp.beehiiv.com/🎟️ 🎫 Comedy Tour Tickets Here: https://markgagnonlive.comTimestamps:2:30 Story of The Michelin Star9:55 Designing a Michelin Star Restaurant20:32 Being a White Sushi Chef + Origins of Sushi30:05 The Evolution of Sushi35:58 Serving Joe Rogan For The First Time47:31 Going On Guy’s Grocery Games + Guy Fieri Story53:45 Cooking For The Ultra Wealthy1:00:39 Serving Ashton Kutcher & Mila Kunis1:02:24 Serving Leonardo Dicaprio1:04:49 Chef Philip’s Restaurants That Didn’t Work Out1:08:42 Iterating To Find the Finished Dish1:10:47 Chef Philip’s Future Restaurant1:12:17 The Process of Cooking From Scratch1:15:54 Scaling Restaurants + Getting Sued for $15 Million1:23:25 Employee Salaries

This is Philip Franklin Lee, or I just call him Chef Phil. He's a personal friend of mine and one of the most prominent chefs in America today. He's truly a genius. He has multiple Michelin Stars. He has 27 restaurants, all different concepts. And the guy is just like a dictionary or like an encyclopedia of culinary knowledge. And he's met everybody. So today we talk about stories of how we met Joe Rogan and actually moved his entire restaurant operation to Austin, Texas. We talk about what it's like cooking for the most elite of the elite, heads of everybody. state billionaires and what it's like going to their homes and making them food. He even tells his stories about Guy Fieri and what it was like starting off at how Guy actually really helped

him out with his career. And he even goes on to talk about how he scaled his businesses, which I think is valuable for anyone that's interested in chasing their dreams specifically, and it fits in an unconventional industry. I love this episode. I think Phil is truly a genius and is so kind and so knowledgeable. He knows everything about sushi and food and is just so truly passionate about his craft. So if you share a similar passion about anything in your life, I think that will come through in the episode. So without further ado, sit back, relax, and welcome to King. Chef Phil, what's up, brother? Yo.

How are you? How are you? I'm excellent. Thank you for joining me on my lovely couch. It's a nice couch. It's a comfy pillow here you got here. You said you've never done a couch pod. I've never done a couch pod.

Oh, welcome to it, dude. Thank you. I almost did a pool pod with Matt McCusker yesterday. That's on brand. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Literally pulled up, and we felt the pool. was like a little pool, and it turns out it was a hot tub. And I was like, it's so hot outside.

If we get in this hot tub, we might die like friends. Like, I don't think we can do this. I don't think we could do the hot tub. That'd be a great story for the pod lore. How did they die again? Well. Murder suicide? No, they both just singed in a hot tub.

It was a suave. As you probably know much about. Now, I know you just as a friend and as a wonderful chef and just a homie of mine. But can you explain to the people some, like, in brief, the background and I want to ask you about your genius but first I want you to brag because I know that you're going to feel very uncomfortable doing this and it's going to be kind of funny to watch me see you try to brag I'm not really a bragger but but I can I can just list facts yeah just do facts so I've got today as we sit here I have just opened my 27th restaurant

in resorts world in Vegas on the strip yeah I have been awarded Michelin Stars two different of my my restaurants. Actually, I went from zero stars to one day I went from zero to two restaurants getting a star at the same time. I've, I've, you know, done a bunch of competitions on TV. At one point held the record for most wins on Food Network, currently hosting or co-hosting and head judging a sushi competition show with Iron Chef Morimoto. him and I called Sushi Masters. And as of two weeks ago, my little brother, Lennon, who you probably met, he made, who's making sushi at Andrew's wedding.

He just got his first Michelin star. And we found out via this headline for this huge article in Michelin that we've made history as the first two brothers in America to ever each hold star simultaneously. So that's probably the coolest of all of the accolades. Yeah, it's pretty wild. You and your brother both get Michelin stars. And I think we're also might be the only two white guys who also got stars for sushi. Yeah. So, hold on, can you just start with Michelin? What exactly is Michelin? Why does it matter? There's probably people listening, like, a Michelin star, this is some fancy BS. You know what I mean? Can you explain why it matters and what it is?

Yeah, so I've been obsessed for almost 20 years with chasing Michelin stars. Some actors want to just act and some actors want to. Academy Award. Some cooks just want to cook, and some want Michelin Stars. I'm of the latter. Of course, I also just want to cook, but I want Michelin Stars. So the Michelin Guide started, I think, in 1900, maybe 1901, I can't remember. But I think it was 1900. And what they basically were Michelin Tires, right, French Tire Company.

And in order to, they basically put out a guide, and it was a map. of all of France and it was like, hey, you should go check out these hotels and these restaurants. And it was a way to get people to put more wear and tear on their tires, right? So they'd have to buy more tires. After about 20 or so years, they introduced stars. So there's three stars. So nowadays you're hearing a lot of, like, there's a lot of misunderstanding about Michelin. There's a lot of people who, like, will get what's called a plate or a recommendation.

and the media will be like, oh, they're a Michelin Star. It's like, no. There's, you can get, the lowest thing you can get is a recommendation or a plate. That's what they call it, as opposed to a star. A recommendation just means that you are recommended. Then you have a Bib Gorman. A Bib Gorman is somewhere between recommended and a star, but specifically you have to be, thank you.

Specifically, you have to be under a certain price point. So it has to be a place where it's like, yo, awesome, restaurant, great value. You'll get full. You'll be happy for a certain amount of money. That's interesting. And that's Bibb Gorman. That's Bibb Gorman. Then you go to Michelin Stars. What about Michelin Guide? So the guide is the book. Now it's online. It used to be a little red book before everything was digital. And so the book is called the Michelin Guide. And inside the guide, you have recommendations, Bib Gormon's, one star, two star, three star, one. star is um uh it it means worth a stop so basically the idea is like if you're in the area and you're and you're going by it's worth a stop uh two stars is worth a detour like hey go out of your way

but not too far just detour and three is worth a journey three is like you should buy a plane ticket to another continent it's that good um now you might think that the fact that i only have one star would mean like I'm not, you know. That you're a schlub. Yeah, you're a huge failure. I still I still literally cried on camera when I got those stars. Well, it's worth noting like I feel like you're being a little bit generous with the

rating here. Maybe like that 1900s rating is kind of what you're referring to. Like, oh yeah, worth a stop. Well, that's what it was. They've kept, I mean, it's still worth a stop. Because here's a thing. You go through New York City, right? And there's thousands of restaurants. Fair. There are some that's worth a stop.

Meaning if you're in New York, it's worth your time. A detour would be, I'm on the East Coast. It's worth detouring into the city to hit that restaurant with two stars. Three stars is you live in Spain. You should fly to New York City. Right. So it still makes sense. But I feel like for me growing up like in Florida, I don't even think in my town there

was any Michelin-starred restaurants. There might have been like a Michelin Guide. No, Florida got it in 22 or 23. It's brand new in Florida. So there is a Michelin guide now, but it's maybe three or four years old. Right. Now, I wonder, is there, how political is the Michelin system? Is there like a gamification that goes on?

Is it truly just like a good faith critic that tries a dish? And it's like, yeah, this is great. So in my opinion, and I've now had a star for five years, there is nothing. There's no politicking you can do. You cannot pay for it. You can't, like, average. for it. Now, you can definitely, they have to hear about you. So, like, yes, you can hire a big PR firm because that will get you on their radar. But as far as actually get, like, there are a lot of other rating systems and awards that I won't name names on, but you know, you know, about them. And it is kind of pay to play. You got to show up. You got to campaign. You got to make donations. You got to show up and do free dinners at the gala.

Now, you don't have to. It just so happens that if you don't, you don't win. So, no, with Michelin, it's still the one. Michelin, to me, is like that, I don't know if it's like a girl figure or a father figure. It's like, you just want their approval. You know what I mean? It's like, I hate that I don't understand what I have to do, but I just need your approval. Yeah.

You know. Yeah, no, of course. There's things like that in comedy where it's like, you'll get off stage and, like, like, you know, Louis or like some like Chris Rock will see your set. And if they go, hey, good set. That's it. Like, it's just, like, it doesn't do anything. It's not like it's going to change your life.

You know what I mean? Like, you don't get to all of a sudden a million dollars in open for them. Like, maybe it could happen. But more so, it's like, oh, I just got approval from people that I really respect that have been doing this longer than me. And when I got into the game, I looked at them as like the zenith of greatness. And now they're giving me an accolade. That just means the world.

Yeah, I mean, and you get that, you get those nods too. You know, I had, you know, I had the privilege and honor to cook for Thomas Keller from the French laundry. Most legendary chef alive, you know, still responsible today for being the beacon of fine dining in America. And he came in and sat down in front of me and, you know, ate my sushi. And afterwards, you know, invited me to hang out and drink some beers. and like that was probably like one of the coolest things ever. Did he give you any specific compliment that means a lot to you that the average person would be like, what does that even mean? He gave me a specific compliment that matters to me, but I think the average person would get it.

What was that? And that was, I can't remember this isn't verbatim, but it was something to the effect of like, so he's, he's a bit older now. You know, he opened the French laundry 30 years ago, something like that. So he's in, he's in his sort of like, um, legacy phase of his career, you know, and still very active, but he said something to the effect of he was very happy and excited to see,

like, young chefs who were going to, like, take the torch. It was something about, like, hey, it was a recognition of I won't be here forever, and I'm very stoked on what you're doing because you will help move this along. The kids are all right. The kids are all right. When I'm gone,

there will be you're part of a class that will continue. I mean, that's like the highest confidence. Yes, I'm getting goosebumps, right? My hair is standing up just thinking about it. Yeah. Now I'm curious as far as Michelin goes, is it possible to curate a menu or a cuisine or an experience that would kind of put you in better standing?

Absolutely. Yeah, very rarely does a film get an Academy Award out of nowhere, and they had no eye. of what they were they were building right right they touched on like a massive they were going perhaps like a historical figure they're going for it yeah right so like the reason i'm so proud of getting one star is because i wasn't going well that's not true i am going for two at pasta bar but i wasn't going for two in the beginning um and so uh like for example i don't currently have a restaurant that should get three stars sushi should get one

pasta bar should get two. We haven't gotten two yet. I'm hoping next year we'll get it. But I'm building a restaurant right now in Austin that I am going for three stars. I am from inception to execution, I will be designing a restaurant to get three Michelin stars.

Now, I'm not doing it to get three Michelin stars. I'm doing it to open a fantastic restaurant, but it is designed to get three Michelin stars, if that makes sense. Yeah, if you're on your, way to making a grill restaurant, you might as well also include some of the accoutrements to get the third star. Yeah, which, but again,

there's no criteria. There's, and nobody knows. But I've worked in three Michelin star restaurants and I've dined at dozens of them. And there's a, there's a feeling, there's a vibe. There's a there's a X factor that you can't really touch on, but you're like, oh, I'm in a three star

restaurant. Yeah, can you extrapolate on that? Because I bet you there's people listening and like, you know, they might live in Florida like me. You know what I mean? And like they, you know, they work with a forklift or something. And they're over here being like, dude, there's like a Mexican spot down the street from me. And it's like a mom and pop and they've owned it for 25 years.

And they have the best food in the world. And all this Michelin stuff is just rich people and fancy people trying to put awards on things that don't matter. It is rich people. It is fancy people. It is awards. I mean, those are all true things. But is there a delineation between like that amazing mom and pop spot and like a three Michelin Star restaurant? And what is the intangible factor that a lot of people miss? So, you know, when Texas was getting.

stars. We got our first round of stars this last year. And I was reading all of like the media's like, you know, anticipation, like who they thought was going to get what. And it was so clear that nobody had any idea what the Michelin Guide is. No idea what it is. Like, to give you an example, all of the local food media in Austin were thinking there'd be between four and six three stars in Austin. Los Angeles got its first three star this year. year. Los Angeles has never had a three star before two weeks ago. Right, which is a rich food culture going back 60 years.

And we think that there's going to be six of them in Austin. Yeah. There isn't six of them in New York City, you know. Now, that's not anything against anyone. That's just there is a big misconception that the stars are based solely on best in class. It is best in class, but not best in class in city. It's best in class on Earth, right? So like all the three stars on earth share a DNA.

All the two stars share a DNA. All one star share DNA. It might be a great restaurant in Austin, but is it Jean-George? Is it, you know, is it some of these other places? And so really what it is is, you know, and Austin had several one-star barbecue spots. You would, you know, everyone was thinking, you know, in L.A., they were mad. They weren't giving them taco trucks, you know. But they did.

They recognized in Austin that barbecue, you can get an awesome. Austin is is up there with the world class of anything you can get anywhere on earth, right? But really what it is, it is the intangibles. It's the feeling that you take away from those restaurants that you don't recreate. It's not about feeding people yummy food because our grandparents, our grandma's either make or made yummy food, right? It's about curating a feeling. It's about curating an experience.

To give you an example, the difference between Mike, like you've been to sushi, right? It's, you know, that's a solid one star to me. It's you show up 30 minutes early. It's a 10-seat restaurant. We give you complimentary cocktails and canopays. You come in, you sit up with the chefs. We're giving you the best sushi possibly can. But we're keeping it fun.

We're keeping it light. It's kind of a party atmosphere, even though it's very respectful to what we're doing. And then you get your bill and you fuck off, right? Um, what we're going to do at the new restaurant is it's, it's, well, first of all, it's set on a four acre ranch right outside of downtown Austin. And there's going to be, uh, little, little cabins that you can stay overnight. Hmm. And I'm going to have my own, uh, longhorn dairy cows that I'm going to milk every morning

for all the butter and the cheese and the, all the desserts. And I'm going to raise my own ducks and goats. And I'm going to hunt all. of the of the animals and I'm going to do a tasting menu that like when you show up for dinner it's meant to be somewhere between depending on your at your leisure somewhere between a three and a six hour experience you know where it's like come and hang out on the four acre farm for like 45 minutes to an hour before we even go and start now you'll have a drink in your hand but it's like this is not the local mom and pop that just has awesome cevice this is a this is a

once in a lifetime experience. Which is kind of what most people's greatest meals are anyway. You know what I mean? If you think about like, oh, what is the greatest meal ever? And it'll be like my grandmother, my nonna was making this thing and my family did a trip to Napoli where she lives and we stayed at her little villa

and like she cooked for us and I played with my cousins. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's rarely just the food. The food is an addition and sort of a multiplier to this full experience of like this moment when I was a child. And so when you think about the restaurant in that same way, it's like it transcends the food.

It is the full experience starting from when you make a reservation or when you get in contact with the matri-D and you walk into this place and you stay there for an extended period of time. And the reason some of those restaurants that are on the side of the road that are just great don't end up with stars

is they have, you know, of the three or four different tangibles and intangibles, they might crush one, maybe one and a half, but they don't have all of them. Right. You know what I mean?

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And it's not because they're not capable. It's like, what can you do in a strip, with your 800 square feet. You know what I mean? Like you just can't give that type of experience. And also they're not going for it.

Right. Yeah, they're happy making great food for their community, which is its own thing. Again, that's the actor who just wants to act, who doesn't necessarily need the Academy Award. Same idea. And there's a purity in that as well. A hundred percent.

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and making this show possible with this paid advertisement. Well, let's get back to the show. Now, I'm curious, you talked about sushi by scratch restaurants, one of your, you know, many wonderful, wonderful dining establishments. I've always wondered this, and I've asked you this in passing at different times. Do you get shit for being a white sushi chef? I got shit for being a white sushi chef for a very long time. It stopped when I got a Michelin Star. The night before we opened the first location in Los Angeles in 2017, I think it was,

my publicist quit because she thought what I was doing was blasphemous. Wow. And she was unwilling to represent my interpretation of something. sushi. Can I ask what the ethnic heritage of your publicist was? I believe she was Chinese. Oh, really? I believe. I'm fairly certain. She wasn't Japanese. Yeah, she's sticking up for the Japanese now. She wasn't Japanese and she wasn't white. Interesting. But especially this was a time in 2017. This was a cultural moment where this was when cultural appropriation was getting smashed on Facebook. Right. You know, there was, you know, I remember reading at that time about these white

girls who like lived in Mexico who went back to like Seattle and were making burritos and there were people picketing. You know what I mean? Yeah. A white lady with like a kimchi like digital store. Yeah. And and and you know so. Which I can understand the frustration. If you lived your whole life eating kimchi and your Korean people have been making funny because your food stinks and all of a sudden some white lady does it and everyone loves it. I can understand the frustration. I don't think it's justified to like protest in front of someone's store, but I can get where that animosity comes from. I don't.

I don't get where that animosity comes from unless it is a, well, I was just saying unless it's a strictly like capitalistic move where someone is just literally trying to exploit. Right. But like sushi didn't originate in Japan. You know what I mean?

I'm listening. Yeah. So like every cult, well, it started in China. But modern day sushi, like what you know today, is from Japan, but sushi didn't start in Japan. Really? And when you say sushi, do you just mean like the exercise of like eating raw fish in small bites?

Sushi's been around for about 2,000 years. And only 200 years ago, this year was the first piece of nagiri ever made. Like rice with a little piece of rice with the fish on top like I do? It's 200 years old. And sushi being raw, I think is 250 years old. maybe 300 years old. And was that Japanese? Yeah.

Yeah. This is a great Japanese move, right? Because they just take everything and make it the best. So again, Japanese make the best whiskey and scotch. Did they start that? No. Make the best steak? They make the best everything.

What the Japanese do amazingly is they take stuff that other people have started and they fucking perfect it. I've never had a Japanese person be upset with me for making sushi. I've only ever had white people upset with me from making sushi. And, you know, several of the, and it's not like what I was doing back then was like way different than what I'm doing now. Like the hamachi with the corn and the sourdough was on the menu when she quit. Interesting. You know what I mean?

The bone marrow was on the menu when she quit. It's just that if you look back 10 years ago at the state of sushi in America, it was. fish on top of rice, soy sauce, wasabi. It wasn't garnished back then. Now, I won't say it wasn't garnished. It was very rare to find it garnished. And so what I was doing is I was, you know, I wanted to make the most traditional and respectful

type of sushi I possibly could. The problem is white people were mad because they don't know the tradition. They don't know where it comes from. This is an imitation, correct. That's what traditional respectful sushi is. There's no Philadelphia cream cheese on this. But the fact that I was white and I was doing it different than what they were used to made it seem like I was being blasphemous as opposed to actually going, hey, how come you, first of all, Phil, why sushi? Oh, because when I was five years old, it became my absolute favorite food.

And I was obsessed. When I was seven, I would only eat omicasse. When I was 13, I bought my first book on making sushi, started making it at home. Like, I grew up in L.A. in the 90s and early 2000s, and we had the second highest concentration of sushi bars per capita in the world. I grew up outside of, like, Tokyo. Yeah, all of my friends from Japan grew up eating less sushi than I did. So when you say it's not part of my culture, why? It's not part of my blood?

Why? You know what I mean? So I just thought the most traditional and respectful. thing I can do. So the thing that makes Italian food Italian is they only serve what's from their region. It's why every region of Italy has different food. What makes Japanese food, Japanese food, is the same thing, right? And so sushi would have, if you have a sushi chef in Tokyo from Okinawa and you have a sushi chef in Tokyo from Hokkaido, they're going to have different styles of sushi. I'm not from Hokkaido. I'm not from Okinawa. I'm from L.A. I'm from L.A.

So I treated L.A. as the prefecture of Japan. So all of my my sensibilities, my flavor profiles, I used L.A. as my, as my, the colors of my paint on my palette. Which is the most Japanese thing you can do. Which is the most traditional thing you can do, but everybody didn't fucking understand it. Right. That makes a lot of sense. But then over time, we became, you know, the media would shit on us,

and people would show up and be like, this is the best thing I've ever had in my life. and we became a cult classic that like, you know, one of those movies that has terrible rotten tomatoes, or I don't know about, it has terrible critic scores, but like is sold out. Yes, exactly.

And it's got like the audience rating is 98%. Yeah, so audience loved us, but everyone whose job it was to, you know, you know, review didn't. Was that frustrating? Yeah. Did you have animosity? Like at a certain point where you're just like,

I'm pouring my life out to try to make this one. I'm going to Japan learning under these famous chefs. Well, I didn't go to Japan. I didn't learn under the famous chefs. Did you go to Japan after the restaurants started over? I went to Japan. I've now been three times, but I think my first trip to Japan was 2019.

Oh, really? Oh, I thought you had one before. No. No. No. Interesting. But I've been, you know, obsessed with and studying sushi for, I mean, I don't, we're not going to turn this podcast into it, but like we could open a bottle of wine and we can talk about the history of sushi by,

century, you know, for hours. It's been a, like, it's been a passion of mine. And, um, uh, I lost my train and thought. Where were we going? No, just this idea of like animosity that people are, like, lambasting you in the media and you're like,

I'm pulling my life into this. So I, so I was very lucky. I played music when I was younger. And when I was in like middle school, I was in a, like, a pretty popular band for like our hometown. Um, and that's when message words started. And people talk shit. Of course. People talk shit. And I learned in like 12 years old, 13 years old, 14 years old to just let people talk shit. You know, tried fighting them when I was younger. But like I just, you know, you let it go. And then I've had, you know, I've had other like instances.

I won't mention what TV show, but I've been on a show before where like the edit is so bad, like making me look so bad. And the words that are. coming out of my mouth on the screen aren't actually coming out of my mouth. They're overdubbed with other words that I've said, you know, that they caught on camera. That should be illegal. Except for the fact that when you do these shows, you sign a piece of paper that says, uh, we're allowed to doctor, alter, make you look bad, you know, all that kind of stuff. Of course.

You know, um, so I've had, I've had those opportunities to be completely misunderstood and to be, you know, lied about. And so here's the thing. If I went out of business because of it, it probably would kill me. But I got a fucking, I had a sold out restaurant every night. And so to me,

I come from the, like, I played in hardcore bands and punk bands. We're not supposed to be mainstream. You know what I mean? We're supposed to, we're not supposed to sell out amphitheaters and arenas.

We're supposed to sell out bowling alleys to 200 kids who give a shit. You know what I mean? And so in the food world, I was selling out these little tiny restaurants, these little tiny clubs to people who gave a shit. The critics didn't get it. Cool.

Whatever. And you got to really be with the people every night that you were affecting and you were like, yeah, this is what I've got into this for anyway. Here's what I have learned. There's only one person who actually matters, and that is the guest who's paying money. If the guest who's paying money

is having a great time, you're killing it. If the guest is who's paying money isn't, you need to fix that. Right. Yeah, I don't think you would trade having an empty restaurant

and all the accolades in the world. No, no. Yeah, I'm also curious, like I am a fan of history and I love history very much. Could you give me in brief, if there is such a thing as a brief answer, what is the Japanese obsession with perfection

as you've understood it through sushi? So I am not, I don't claim by any stretch to be like a Japanophile. I'm a sushi file. I don't even know that's a word, but you know what I'm saying. I know the history of sushi.

I don't know the history of Japan. But why does sushi come through Japan and get perfected? Well, the thing about sushi is that the only constant is that it has been evolving. It's never stopped evolving. And so even today, you see the world of sushi isn't what it was eight years ago. ago, you know, eight years ago you couldn't find a speak easy 10 seat 17 course with the words behind you on the back wall, Nagiri only. You couldn't. Now, like the Houston Chronicle did the list of the top 20 speak easy 17 course 10, you know what I'm saying? It became a genre in its own right.

It is, it has become a genre. And it's actually one that I, you know, I have a couple of, I have several friends, but I have a couple of friends in Japan who are, world-renowned chefs who, you know, dined with me early on. And they were like, this is going to be the future of sushi. Because the thing is, you're, everybody's handcuffed by tradition. They're not, no one's allowed to go outside of the box. And you just did. And you're doing it really, really, really well.

And so this will be the, you know, Hasato Hamada from the Wagyu Mafia said it in 2017. This will be the future of sushi. And two years ago when he hosted me in Tokyo at his, at his restaurant to take over and do my sushi, he went on the record again and said, I said this in 2017, and now you can see this is the future of sushi. Yeah, there's a...

His words, not mine. It's an interesting disruption, right? Like, I like that about sushi, even just in the way you're explaining it, that there is an inherent kind of evolution to it, which I think a lot of white America doesn't really understand or respect. And there's almost like an inert sort of prejudice

that Americans have that, like, if I were to see like a Filipino guy or like even like a central American dude with like a monolid making sushi I would be like well this is his culture you know what I mean like it's just as much like Filipino cultures as it is yours you know what I mean like like I don't think like the color of your skin or like where you were raised which should preclude you from making great sushi this is the only thing that should matter right your heart that's it if you're like I said earlier I can see an argument for you're a capitalist you're a vet you're a VC firm you're equity and you're just trying to cash in, I could see an argument for like, hey, that's not

right. But if it is your soul, if that's what you want to do, if that's what you want to spend your life doing, you should be able to do it. And I'll tell you, you can do it. You might have to nowadays, no one's getting in trouble for making sushi. Right. Right. But I did. I got a lot of hate for making sushi. And it instantly died when I got Michelin Star. Yeah. What's up guys? We're I'm going to take a break really quick because you need to rebrand your crotch. That's right. You need a full rebrand under your dong, and you're going to do it with Blue Chew. Because Blue Chew, their tablets aren't just for better sex.

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That's like a cup of coffee. All right, five bucks for shipping. You're going to get free Bluetooth straight to your door. So upgrade your legacy. Let your name ring out for eons. And let's get back to the show. What's up, people? Quick announcement.

If you are a fan of Camp Gagnon or Religion Camp, I have great news because we're dropping history camp. That's right. This is the channel where we're going to be exploring the most interesting, fascinating, controversial topics from all time throughout all history, right? You probably know about Benjamin Franklin, I don't know, Thomas Jefferson, Nikola Tesla. Interesting figures from history, and you probably learned about it in school and they were pretty boring, but not here. No.

As you know, I was raised by a conspiracy theory, so I'm going to be diving deep into all of the interesting, strange, occult, and secretive societal relationships that all of these famous influential men from our shared past have. So if you're interested, please go ahead and subscribe to the YouTube channel. It will be pinned in the description as well as the comments. And if you're on Spotify, this doesn't really apply to you, but these episodes will be dropping as well. Just go ahead and give us a high rating because it really helps the show.

And you've also met some pretty interesting people doing this. Like very many. Most of my closest friends today, I met across the counter from me. My daughter's godfather, I met across the counter from me. You know, like Neen Williams. my partner in NAAC Burger and the NAAC podcast, I met across the counter from me. Is that I even at Joe as well?

Yep, I met Joe across the counter from me. Like, he just pulled up one night. You want the story? I would love it. So, December 2020, living in L.A. Four or five restaurants at the time.

I had three sushi by scratch restaurants. At the time, it was called sushi bar. California outlawed outdoor dining. So during the no indoor dining, we just moved the sushi counter to the sidewalk and people were eating the full experience on the sidewalk. That's hilarious. Then we moved back indoors,

back outside, back indoors, then they said no indoors or outdoors. That was going to kill us. So the entire state of California was shut down and I took a poll how many of you guys are willing to relocate for jobs. I can't carry your salaries. You can get unemployment or I can find you.

I'll find us a state that will let us cook. Enough people raised their hands. We flew to Austin. We were supposed to be here for five weeks. This is back in 2020. The first week, we reached out to all of the local media to promote us. And they all said, no, we're not promoting. first of all, we don't think restaurants

should be open at all but also if we're going to promote restaurants it's not going to be an outsider's restaurant we're going to promote I get it not mad about it at all those are just what happened so because we had a cult following in L.A. With like 100,000 people

on our mailing list over the last decade sent out a mailing that said hey guys you know us because when you come to our restaurant you typically leave with a hug and if not your first visit your second visit It's, it is really that type of, I mean, you know, I mean, you've, you've only been there as my friend, but it is that kind of environment. Not only from you, but like, I'm talking to people next to me. And like, I'm like, I'm like, oh, you know this guy?

Like I'm going to New York City. So I'm like, oh, yeah, we have mutual friends. Like, it becomes like you go as a person and then you leave kind of as a group. And there's so much of the, what I wanted was being in hardcore. I wanted, I do, I like sing-alongs. I like pylons. I like when you're getting the mic. Everybody up to the stage, get close.

That's what I've designed as a restaurant, is the club version. We're like, like, we're a show. I never played concerts. I played shows if you know the difference. Right. So like Nobu is a concert. Sushi by Scratch restaurants is a show. Right.

And so anyways, we've sent out a mailing list. Hey, guys, you know, as you know, we're shut down. We're going to Austin to try to have jobs so that we can stay afloat so we can reopen, you know, whenever California. is ready. Please, if you have any friends, tell them to come support us. Well, it turns out that somebody who got that mailing, on the mailing list, was Joe's wife's best friend. And she reached out to Joe's wife and said, you got to check these guys out. So it turns out the very first reservation ever made was by Joe's wife. Now, she didn't make it until like week four of the five week pop-up. And so first week, we pretty much sit empty. We have a couple of people straggling in.

Second week, we're like 50% capacity. By the third week, we're sold out for the following two weeks with 100 people on the wait list. Wow. Then comes our fourth Saturday of our five-week stint. And in walks Joe Rogan. Now, at the time, I didn't know we had a podcast. I didn't really watch UFC back then. And I loved Fear Factor. So I was like, hell yeah. And so he comes in with his wife. He's got the little hat on.

He's sitting hat low. He's not there to see and be seen. He's there on a date with his wife. Didn't even know when he left the house he was going to have sushi that night. Starts eating. You know, we're sitting literally this close to each other. And I'm, I like watching people's reactions. And I like it because it's just like comedy.

I can turn left. I can turn right. I can make adjustments based on my banter will change based on are we talkative, are we not? Right. Am I doing crowd work? Am I just sticking to the fucking script? A lot of that. And so, you know, Joe's very expressive.

He takes a bike. You know, looks at his wife and goes, so a couple sake's in. Hey, you know, Philip, I got to know, like, where's the Japanese chef? What's going on? I'm the chef. You're the chef. What's your story?

You know, and he's asking me questions. And two-thirds the way through the menu, he's like, I guess I's got to say, I've never had sushi better in my life. This is like the best thing I've ever had. He's like,

and I've traveled everywhere and blah, blah, blah. He's like, how do I eat this again? And I'm like, unfortunately, we're sold out the next two weeks. But if you want to leave your number, I can make sure I'll move you to the top of the wait list. And he's like, you should, you know, LA, you should move to Austin.

I'm like, I can't move to Austin. I have five restaurants and I'm going to need to open in a couple weeks. And he goes, they're not going to reopen in a few weeks. And I was like, yeah, he's like, Philip, they say a few weeks. It's going to be a few months. You and I both know that. They're not just going to, they're going to be a while. You should stay.

Just stay one more month. Just do one month. And I think he could see that he had me on the ropes. He's like, I'll tell you what. Don't think about it. Just say yes. If you say yes right now, I will guarantee you're sold out. And I was like, what do you mean?

He goes, I'll take a picture of you. I'll put it on online. And any seats that don't sell, I'll pay for. What? I've never heard the story. You haven't heard the story? No, this is wild. Oh, wow.

Okay. Well, then I'm glad I'm going as in depth as I am because I'm giving you the full story. Because I figure people at home might not know the story. That's so funny. That's a pretty solid sales pitch. How the fuck do you say no to that? I don't, you say yes. You say yes.

Thank you, sir. right um so he's like all right you know open up the reservations i go do i'm wearing a mask and gloves like let's finish dinner i got one more seating and after the last seating i'll open up the reservations he's like great stand there takes a picture what's all the socials blah blah blah he leaves i do my next seating i open up the reservations at about 1230 a m on a random Saturday night, I think it was January 12th, 2021. Within four minutes of his Instagram post, February sold out. Wow. And we wake up the next morning, there's 25,000 people on the wait list. And we've had a lot of big, big, big celebrities, bigger in terms of like, you know,

30 million, 60 million Instagram followers who will post about us. And, um, We'll get three new reservations. Yeah. You know. And, you know, I really, I mean, I'm forever indebted to Joe. You know, there's not a year that goes by that he doesn't get a birthday present and a Christmas present from me. It's starting to feel kind of weird five years later. But still, like, dude, you changed my life.

But we were so blown away that when Los Angeles and California turned, not the, not the people, but the city and city. state turned their back on us. Austin answered the call in our darkest hour. Right. And Margarine and I decided that we will not shut down this pop-up until everybody gets a chance.

And so about four or five months later we have not gone back home to L.A. We're just running this pop-up and we make the announcement because we just keep extending month, extending month. And the months are selling out and like, We're breaking talk, which is like the, like, you really know Rezi.

Like, talk is the same thing. So literally we're like, it's going on sale and it's the fucking site is crashing. 40 seconds and all 300 seats for the month are gone or whatever it is. Is that ever happening in your career before this? We always, all of our restaurants sat at or near capacity with between like 10 and 20 people on the wait list on a Saturday night. Now we're looking at like 4,000 people on the wait list tonight. Like just nuts.

And eventually we decided we should probably tell the IRS that we don't live in California anymore. And so we bought a house here and it's been almost five years. Wow. Yeah. That's why we live in Austin now. That is crazy. I didn't realize that it was that dramatic of a moment. Like I thought it was like, oh yeah, like we came over and we kind of had some success and we met some cool people and we just kind of stuck around.

I didn't realize it was like. No, it was Joe literally. It was Joe literally forcing me to move to Austin. What a legend, though, right? How do I leave that? And the fact that he would do it in that way to guarantee that it would work out. Like, what an, like, I've always, like, obviously as a comic, I know he does this with comics, but the fact that he does this with people outside of the comedy space in such a significant way is, like,

really a testament to, like, his character, right? Like, that he would just put you guys on. I mean, you know, he told me once that he understands his, like, level of power. Yeah. And he tries to use it for good. Yeah. And sometimes it's misunderstood, you know, often, most of the time it's misunderstood

by specific people. But he's trying to use it for good. Yeah. You know, he, you know, and he tells me all the time when somebody goes to the restaurant and then hits, he gets tagged or his friend hits him and goes, dude, you were right. Because he told me he's like, every once in a while, they'll style me. me out, but then somebody will go and be like, why did you like that? It wasn't that good. And he's like, dude, you're batting a thousand. And it just, it makes me happy because like,

nobody has been able to say, yo, why did you say that place was good? I mean, that's wild. It's crazy that it can really change that quick, even in the restaurant world. Like, in entertainment, it makes sense. But I guess in the restaurant world, I'd never would anticipate that. Like every overnight success, we were at year 10. Right. You know, year 10 of owning restaurants. Today I'm at year 20 of dedicating my life to this And I'm at year 13 at owning restaurants now So I guess it was year nine When when he when he did that

But I mean like Marguerite likes to remind me all the time Yes, we're an overnight success 10 years in the making Right And you know Guy Fieri told me He's been he's been a Almost like a mentor of mine And I'm just amazing champion of my career

And he told me once long time ago, probably back in like 2014. He's like, success, it's like a street. Success is going to drive by. You don't know how often it will, but it's going to drive by. And you will never, it might stop for a second, but it's never here to stay until you're ready to accept, like, ready for it. And I feel like had Joe's first, because we, we both lived in LA, he could have found us there. and had he found us in 2017 or 18 or 19 maybe we wouldn't have been ready for it maybe it wouldn't have been maybe the food wasn't as good maybe the experience was you know but like we were

ready to to hold on to success at that point what can you tell me about guy fear I feel like this is another person that's extremely misunderstood by the all right I'm going to tell you that my best guy story and I had the honor of telling this story to his wife recently um in front of him because he did something for me that is, it's almost unbelievable. So, I actually, so I never wanted to be on TV.

I was like, fuck that. Fuck being a TV chef. I'm a real chef, right? So out my first restaurant, no paycheck, really hard to survive. And a bunch of my, so chopped, which is filmed in New York, was only really doing East Coast chefs.

Well, this year in 2013, or 14, I can't remember. they started doing West Coast chefs. And a bunch of my friends went on and they all won. And if you go on and win, they ask you if you know anyone else who will win. Now, apparently, the producers got my name from like eight or nine different people. And I was like, nah, I don't know. And all my friends was like, dude, it's $10,000.

You need money. Fly to New York for free. Get $10,000 and fly home. Like, why would you not do that? So, all right, fine, I'll do it. So I fly there and I win. And as I land back on the tariff. Mac at LAX, phone turns on, I get a text. Hey, we just got your number from Chopped. There's a new show

that's shooting tomorrow called Guy's Grocery Games. Would you like to be on it? It's up to a $20,000 prize. And I go, okay, so I show up the next morning. This is episode three of season one of Guy's Grocery Games. And I had just done Chopped where nobody speaks. to you. None of the judges, none of the hosts. You are, they turn the lights off. You have to put your head down and walk single file. Like, it's, it's psychological warfare, right? I get to this thing, and I'm expecting, it's my first cooking competition, or on TV at least, so I'm expecting that's what it's going to be like. And I get there, and it's light, and it's airing, it's cheery, and guy comes out to all of the contestants before we even go to our welcome interviews or whatever.

He's like, I just want you all to know that you've made it. You won. The fact that you're here, you know, blah, blah, it gives us a real amazing prep, pep talk and shakes all of our hands. Spends a few minutes. Hey, what's your name? Philip, okay, what do you do? I have my own restaurant, you know. Oh, what kind of restaurant?

I make everything from scratch, blah, blah. Wait, you own it? Yeah, I do. Okay, well, good luck today. you know, blah, blah. So then don't see him for a while, and now we're starting. And what he does is he goes, all right, next up, you've got chef so-and-so from so-and-so, and you do your big walkout, right? And I'm like the third one to get called out. So he calls, all right, so next up is Chef Philip Franklin Lee. He's a chef and owner of a bistro in Beverly Hills, California, you know, reading off the teleprompter.

And I'm doing my big walkout. And he goes, no, no, no, no, stop, stop. And everyone's like, wait, wait, wait, why do you, what's going on? And he's like, no, no, no. This kid owns his own restaurant. I'm not saying he's an owner of a bistro. He owns Scratch Bar. Let's do it again. And the producer's like, well, you can't say the name of the restaurant.

He's like, bullshit. This kid came, he's 27 years old or 26 years old. He's fucking putting himself out there. He owns his own restaurant. We're promoting his restaurant. And he gets into a fight with the producers on episode three of his first competition show. And I'm just standing there.

We're all standing there while they're arguing. And he's like, and they're like, they finish up and he walks over to me and goes, listen, we're going to go back. We're going to do it. We're going to say Scratch Bar. I don't know what they're going to air, but I want you to know this. No matter what you do today, you cook from scratch. You're the scratch man, the scratchedster.

You don't stop saying scratch the entire episode. And I go back and I do the thing. He does the intro for me with saying Scratch Bar. And I do every single course that I do. I make my own butter in one course. I do something from scratch. And I end up winning, I think, like 16 or 18K that day. And I just can't believe that a celebrity on TV would not only care about a 26-year-old kid,

enough but like he didn't just advocate for me he fought for me and I didn't know him he didn't know me he didn't know me anything

you know what I mean I mean that's awesome and it was the most like that was like that was one of those incredible things that ever so then yeah

people talk shit about me later about being white it's like I don't care because there's like you know what I mean like I've had enough love that the hate gets kind of drowned out

I mean that's fascinating I really feel like the procession of Guy in the media is like, oh, he's this wild dude and he wears these crazy shirts and his hair is funny. Do you know that? I think they missed. Shane Torres? Yeah, of course. Have you heard his bit on Guy Fieri versus Anthony Bourdain? I've heard, I've seen excerpts of it.

I've seen like clips. Amazing. Yeah. No, I mean, Shane's like all time. But like, I do think people miss guys genius. Yes. His whole thing is, look, yes, he has racing stripes. Yes, he has, you know, spiky hair.

But that's his personality. Yeah. You have long hair. That's your personality. I have a beard. That's my personality, right? That's just his personality. And is it a little bit different than everyone else?

Sure. But he's not doing it as a schick. Like he collects hot rods. He's a hot rod guy. So he dresses like a hot rod guy. Like, why is that, why do we hate him because he dresses like a hot rod guy when he has such a huge fucking heart? You know what I mean? It's weird.

Yeah. But that also goes to show you that a person that amazing, who's done nothing controversial in his entire existence. If people can hate him, then you can discredit everything people say. Yeah. As a whole. Now, I'm curious when you're cooking and sort of working with these like high power people, right?

Like you're like someone like Joe is massively influential and he's not the only one that you've cooked for. Is there a pressure when you're making each dish? Do you do you psych yourself out? Do you have to kind of calm yourself down? Like, what is that? There was only two people who I've ever been. nervous to cook for.

Davy Havoc, the singer for AFI. That makes sense. It's a weird one, but it's true. Knowing you, that tracks. You're a big AIFI guy.

Yes. Yeah. I have several AFI tattoos, but my favorite band since I was 12. You know, my, yes. And Thomas Keller.

Right. Those are the two that I have like, I'm like, I'm like messing up my words. You know what I mean? Yeah. But no, I mean, otherwise, I really try to treat every guest. And a lot of them I know who they are.

And they know I know who they are. Because everyone knows who they are. Because everyone knows who they are. Yeah. But like you can be one of two things ever. A human or a fan. You can't be. And the second you're like, if you start out as a fan, you're almost never going to become a human.

Right. And so I've always treat, like all of my restaurants have always been like, welcome to my kitchen, welcome to my home. So I just treat you like a guest at my house. And if I'm, if all I do is treat you like a guest in my house, it's really easy because I don't have to do anything different than I do for every other person. Right. Because I'm already chatting up the room. I'm already offering you a drink. I'm already making sure you feel taken care of.

Now the fact that you're a celebrity, you just also are getting that treatment. Right. Yeah. If you treat everyone great, you don't have to switch it on. And now I have so many friends who are, you know, that sounds bad. I have so many celebrity friends. But I have a lot of friends who have celebrity status that I met because they ate at the restaurant and they liked the food and felt a connection because I treated them like a real person.

And I viewed them like a real person. Now it's one thing to do it in your own restaurant. People come in and they get a reservation or maybe like they work with a concierge and they go through sort of traditional channels. But I've heard that you've done some private events for some pretty interesting and high-powered people, are those experiences different? Like, you might go to someone's home and cook in their kitchen at, like, some, you know, multi-billion-dollar mansions somewhere.

I think, I think, I can't talk about who it is, and I think I know, I think I know that, I think you know what, what it is, right? It's one that's set up. Yeah. Yeah, okay. You know, I try not, I just try to stay out of my head. I just try to do my thing, you know. it's always a little,

but the first time you see someone, it's like, oh, that's a president. Oh, that's one of the richest guys in the world. Oh, that's, you know, head of state, whatever. Oh, that's, you know, 100-time Grammy Award winning, whatever. Like, yes, there's a little bit of, like, anticipation,

but probably no different than if you're doing a show and you know that Chappelle's in the back. Right. You're a little, but the second you get up there, you do your fucking thing and you, it's gone. Yeah, the most memory kind of locks it. And you're like, this is just like,

sort of any other experience. And so, you know, I'll tell a fun story about that. I'm going to leave all of the names out. Fair. So I get gifted to some, like, I get gifted as a birthday present to somebody. And go to their house, make sushi. The gentleman who it is is like, this is the best sushi I've ever had and I've traveled the world.

and, you know, there's nothing I can't afford and incredible. And this is over COVID, so, like, you can't go to restaurants or whatever in L.A. And do the dinner. Great time. Leave. Get a call back a couple of days later. Hey, so-and-so wants to know if you can come back this weekend to do another dinner. And the person who I'm talking to is like that, and that's crazy because this person

never brings back the same chef. So I go back that weekend. And this person has invited. three couples to join, you know, him and his significant other. And it's like, I'm so excited to show all of my friends the best sushi in the fucking world. And so I'm getting ready. I come out with the first dish. And he goes, hey, guys, this is Philip, blah, blah.

And I know every single person at the table. It's like an aluminum part. You're looking around. You're like, what the hell? Well, no, no, no. I know them personally. Oh, really? Every person at the table is a regular at my restaurant.

Oh, hilarious. Yeah. Oh, that must be nice. That was cool. Oh, that's crazy. What's up, guys? I'm on the road. That's right.

I'm going to Chandler, Arizona, San Diego, California, Burlington, Vermont, Montreal, Toronto, Detroit, and a bunch of other dates that I will be adding to my website, Mark Agnon Live.com. I would love to see you guys there. Obviously, if you don't know, I'm a stand-up comedian, and stand-up comedy is my passion. It's the thing I love to do. And seeing you guys all come out to the shows truly makes my life.

I hang out after the show and say what's up to everybody. So if you want to come through, check out the show, say what's up to me. It would mean the world. You can see me at all these dates and more on my website, Mark Agnon Live.com. And I'll see you guys. We're going to take a break really quick because we got merch. If you don't know, we got camp research and development merchandise. You can see it right here.

Also, my buddy Andrew Schultz was actually just out, hang with his fam, having a good old time. All of a sudden a dude walks up and goes, yo, what's up, Shultzie? And guess what he was wearing? This shirt right here. So shout out to that legend, whoever you are, you're the man. I appreciate that. And if you want to copy your very own camp threads, go to camp dash rd.com. We're dropping all sorts of new gear. You can see some of the images here of some of the products that we got. And anytime you buy a t-shirt, you help this show directly operate. It is a huge, huge lift. And I'm very grateful for everyone that reps the gear, especially at the live show, seeing you guys wearing the t-shirt,

shirts at the shows. Truly makes my life. It's the coolest thing ever. I cannot believe. People are actually wearing clothes that me and my friends are designing eye message chats. Like, you think this is cool? It's the craziest thing in the world. And I'm so grateful for everyone that does it. Check it out. We got the link in the description. Now, let's get back to the show. Now, are there logistical issues? Like, do they, are they like, okay, well, we need to test the food and we need to look at the rice and make sure that everything's fine. Like, we did do a background check on you. I've definitely had background checks done in some of the dinners that I've done. My team asked, we have to sign NDA.

Sure. Yeah, there's definitely been those things. Not too often, but it does occur. I've never had to look like a metal detector or like they're checking the food for poison. Right. Because again, I was a chef who was like brought as a gift. Right, of course.

Like it goes through the right channels. Yeah, because the right person vouched. Right. They didn't find me on Craigslist. So I know at the restaurant very many, you know, celebrities have come in, as we've said. Are there any specific people that you can share? I know you don't like to kiss and tell,

but are there any specific stories of people that have come in that you can share as far as celebrity? So, yeah, I mean, you're right. I don't kiss and tell. However, if the paparazzi saw the kiss, I can say it happened. You can comment on it. Yes. I mean, obviously, you know, I mean, you know who's been to the restaurant

and, you know, there's been a lot of big, you know, great people. Some fun, fun story. Two come to mind. Two come to mind. One is Ashton and Mila. Ashton, Kucher, and Milakunis. They actually came to Scratch Bar about a month after I opened my first restaurant. And we're now, you know, 13 years later when we now, you know, happy Thanksgiving kind of thing.

But they did something for me that was really. really cool. When they had their first kid, they, the first time the kid was ever seen in public was at our restaurant. Oh, wow. Yeah. And the first photographs of them with the kid ever is right in front of the sign of the restaurant. Whoa. That's wild. Yeah. And, you know, that was,

you know, I never asked if that was planned or not. but I do know that the paparazzi did not come on our side of the street. They stayed on the other side of the street. But regardless, it felt really, really cool. Yeah. Especially at that time, like restaurant one, first couple months. Well, that was restaurant two that that happened. Okay.

The Gatering Swine in 2014 in... So that means guys, Grocer Games, was 2013 then. Because I didn't have Garinger Swine then. The second time, and I don't think I've told this story, on a podcast, but it's public knowledge that Leonardo DiCaprio has been to the restaurant. But I'm going to tell a fun story since we're on this topic. In Austin, right after Joe blew us up and we're sold out with the wait list and everything, there was a very affluent gentleman who lives in Austin who reached out to us.

He'd been in several times, and he reached out and said, hey, I need this Saturday night 930 seating and our concierge was like I'm sorry we're sold out with a wait list and he said

I'll give every person $1,000 to buy their seat so she calls me and goes hey what do you want to do and I said well I'm not kicking every like I'm not just going to say

hey sorry you pick another night but you can call every single person and offer them $1,000 for their seat and do me a favor anyone who accepts, put them to the head of the line. Like get them into the restaurant in the next month. I mean,

as you probably guessed, every single person accepted the $1,000. This gentleman comes in, and it turns out the reason that he came in was because Leo was only going to be in Austin for one night, and

him and Leo had a bet. Him and Leo had a bet on where the best sushi in the world is. One guy was saying Austin. Leo was saying L.A. So they come in, so basically Leo was in Austin, and this was like a way that they could settle. Like, hey, you come and try my dude in Austin and see,

you know, since he's been in a bunch of times. But like, hey, come to Austin and see my guy and then, you know, we can settle this bet. So they come in. I don't even know that who's all going to be there because they didn't tell us this. but Leo walks in they all sort of sit down He stands up and tells this story So you know we have this argument

Blah blah blah and he's like I just want you to know The place I was going to take you in L.A. Was Phillips Restaurant So they're arguing about The same spot, the same guy Oh that's so funny You should have taken him up on that

Be like well you better get a reservation over there Yeah let's run it back dude That's wild Yeah so you go from these sushi restaurants I'm actually curious, were there any concepts for restaurants or ideas that you did that failed? Yes. Well, failed. Failed is a strong word, but...

Failed is a strong word. I have closed restaurants. Okay. My second restaurant was called the Gatarin Swine. It was a meat. There was no animal product on the menu. And it was a tasting menu. Kind of like what Love Madison Park is doing now.

Back in 2014, it was a tasting menu, high-end, only vegetables. vegetables. And that closed because I had a partner in the original scratch bar and that that allegedly took all of the money out of the account and left the country. And then basically I had to get a restraining order so he would stop taking money out of the accounts. And just a judge can remove them from the account, but the judge can can't remove him as a partner. So he was like, if you want to take over,

it'll be a million dollars cash. After already allegedly fleecing you. Yes. So what we did is, he had me, I was 25 at the time, he had me sign, all the paperwork that I signed,

I didn't realize I had personally guaranteed everybody, including the IRS. So IRS hits me up for 40K. My vegetable purveyor hits me up for 30K. staff hasn't been paid so on and so on. So I kept that restaurant open

until I paid every single person out and then closed the restaurant. So I wouldn't call that a failure. The restaurant didn't fail. But the restaurant closed. The relationship, perhaps, maybe failed. Yeah. I had Franklin's crabbing company

was like a lobster roll, you know, concept up in Montecito. Yeah. It was doing all right, but it was in a hotel and the hotel really wanted sushi because they loved our sushi in L.A. So we did reconcept that to be sushi.

So that one also closed. I had two other restaurants that also closed. The Silver Bow and the Monarch were all in the Montecito Inn. So in the Montecito Inn I had Franklin's Crab and Company, Silver Bow, the Monarch. Monarch and Silver Bow closed never to return. Silver Bow was my attempt at Three Michelin Stars. And had I not closed it, I think we would have got there. Really?

And why did those close? So the hotel that we were in, we're still in, when they found us, you spent time in Montecito? A little bit, just like. You know, it's like the wealthiest zip code in the world. Staying at the Montecito Inn was like $2.50 a night. But every other hotel around there was like $2,500. So now half of the Montecito in were these unbelievable suites. and half were $205 a night.

And they brought us in to go buck wild on the food. And they were going to remodel the entire place and just go high, high, high, high. You're part of their plan to modernize. They eventually decided not to do the remodel. And eating at our restaurants was 2 to 3X staying there. Yeah, there's a mismatch. It didn't work out. And so no hard feelings.

It is what it is. They now have a beautiful restaurant there called Coast. olive. They took over both the restaurants and turned it into one big bistro style thing. And then sushi is still there. Funny, they actually, when they agree, what, because, you know, all these hotels, there's like buyback, you know, blah, blah, blah. They were like, we'll let you keep sushi. But you have the rest, you have basically have the rest of this lease, which was two more years to get a Michelin Star. And if you don't get one, then that will be out too. And then I got a star. So I got to keep it.

Put the pressure on. Yeah. Now I'm curious, like with comics, there's always like a joke that never worked or an idea that you always thought was going to make it that never really worked. Was there ever a dish or a piece or a roll or something that you were like, I think this has something

and every time you did it, you were like, this doesn't work. No. I don't think so. Really? No, because the thing is you just, you just iterate until it works. And it may seem like,

from an outsider's perspective, that like when you write a dish that like you kind of like that like like throwing darts at like it's like mad libs you know what i mean but it's but it's it's not it's more like if you ask a guitar player like yo how'd you come up with that song they're like well it's been kind of strumming this thing for a few years and lately i've been doing this and so it's just the next thing that i wrote and so that's kind of the way like i never sit down with a pen and paper and go i'm writing a menu if i'm doing an event or something I need to write a set list. I can write a set list, but I don't write dishes. I can, I never sit down to those right dishes. They just sort of come. And it's because I've been thinking

about this sauce for a couple of years. I've been thinking about this concept for a couple of years. And then something goes, oh, you know what that would be great with? That sauce I have my back pocket and this thing. And boom, it all comes together. I don't think I've ever like had an idea cooked it, start to finish. I mean like, that's bad. Interesting. Because it's like how often is is Eric Clapton, and I'm not comparing myself to Eric Clapton, but how often is he going to play a riff that sounds bad? Right.

He might not be finished. Right. But it's not going to, it's not going to sound, it's not going to be unpalatable. Right. It's just not done. It's not done. And so he might have a really short riff that he can sit on for years because he can't figure out where it goes. And then one day, oh shit, there it is.

Because he hears one, it's just something. Did you ever have a concept for a restaurant that were like, I would love to do this, but it just wouldn't, like, this is like, too expensive, inconceivable, too crazy. Like, what's like the highest? It's the restaurant I'm about to open in spring. How long have you been thinking about it? More than, more than a decade.

Because it's just so, it's almost like James Cameron level, like, oh, yeah, it's a place you can stay where everything's made on the farm. Yeah, I'm going to have an acre and a half of a culinary garden. I'm going to make my own sugar out of honey from our APER. I'm going to feed my dairy cows, the olive mash from the olive oil, Texas olive oil company on the road and all the leftover beer mash from Jester King. Every six months, I'll send my dairy cow to slaughter. That will come on the menu for the next six months.

I'm building a 4,000 square foot, you know, like Hunter's cabin, you know, in the middle of the fucking woods. It would have been impossible. to do six years ago. It would have been impossible. Yeah, I actually have had this property for almost four years because it was, it was a good price and I could just get it. But I've not been able to start on it until literally we broke ground like in the last month. This is like James Cameron having Avatar, like in his drawer.

This is my avatar. The technology isn't ready to do this. Well, technology is ready to milk cows, but, you know, there's just something about, so I'm, I'm super. Super literal. So when I first, the reason that Scratch Bar and now scratch restaurants and we don't serve anything we don't make from scratch is I'm very, very literal. And when I was going to open to my first restaurant, I looked up the definition of restaurant. And that's a hilarious place to start. Well, you got to know what the fuck you're opening because I'll tell you what. A lot of restaurants aren't restaurants by definition. Okay. A restaurant is a place where guests sit and pay to eat food. to consume food that was prepared on site. So if I buy someone else's bread, and I buy someone else's butter,

and I buy someone else's smoked salmon, and I buy someone else's roasted turkey, and I buy some, and I put all them to, and I assemble all of them, by definition, I'm a delicatessen. I'm not a restaurant. So I wanted to take it further and say, I'm not going to serve anything I don't make myself.

Now, there is a slight caveat there. I don't refine my own sugar. I don't, you know, like there's certain things you don't actually make. So the rule of thumb is, if it's an ingredient in something, it can be purchased. But like, I can't purchase a bagel chip and then garnish a bagel chip. I'll have to, and I can't purchase a bagel and slice it and turn into a bagel chip. I don't need to make my own bagel chip. Right.

If that makes sense. But if I'm making a sauce and it needs, well, now I make my own soy sauce, but I didn't, back in the beginning, if it needed soy sauce in there, I would buy soy sauce as one of the 13 ingredients in a sauce, if that makes sense. Of course. You know, if you're going to use Katsubushi, which is like basically dried bonito flakes in your dashi, I'm not buying fresh bonito and then making my own, you know what I mean? but if I am going to serve it as like your next course is bonito flakes then I would have to make it myself right oh that makes a lot of sense here's another good example I want prosciutto on the menu so I got to get a whole pig I got to break it down I got to wait two years however however if I wanted to boil prosciutto into a sauce I could buy prosciutto does that make sense yeah of course yeah if it's if it's sort of part of a greater ingredient. I'm not serving you that prosciutto. I'm not serving you with anything I didn't make.

When I say I, it's the general, you know, it's the global eye because I have, you know, a giant team. Yeah, of course. And I also imagine like supply chains and like global logistics also play a role in this. It's like, oh, we want to do like a coffee thing. It's like, well, it's got to go to Ethiopia. You know what I mean? Like you can't grow coffee, you know?

Yeah. And so we're taking it all the way back to like growing our own vegetables, hunting our own, you know, meat. And if you can't grow it. You're not going to... So same idea. Put it on the, like, the title of the dish. I'm not...

Well, so for example, if I serve a carrot course, and there's a carrot on the plate, that carrot came from my garden. Now, if that carrot is garnished with a sauce made from onions, I might buy the onions from the farm across the street. Right. Because that's going into the sauce. Yes.

And I need hundreds of pounds so that I can reduce it all the way down. Yes. And I'm not dedicating four acres of the... You know, not dedicating the entire thing to onions for sauce. Yes, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that makes a ton of sense. So, like, I'll buy chicken carcasses from a local farm, but the chicken meat you're eating will be from me. Right.

Now, this is so much detailed culinary knowledge, and I would consider you a genius specifically in sushi and specifically with the other restaurants and concepts that you've developed. But then there's also the business element of scaling all of these restaurants and managing people and hiring people to manage in your stead when you're not. not there because you have 27 places there's only one fill so like where does that come into play how do you learn all of this and how terrifying is that concept of scaling i never meant for any of this to happen right um at all uh in 2011 11 maybe 12 i got my first executive chef job and um it was a restaurant called decashe and taluka lake in los angeles in los angeles and I very quickly learned that so guests were calling in to be like hey it's Philip cooking tonight because we're open seven days a week and I was off one day oh he's not when is he cooking

okay I'll come in that day and when the owner came and told me that I said I got to I got to do something because being a chef is a big misnomer about just me being a cook and being a chef if I come to your house tonight and I cook you an amazing dinner does not make me a great chef makes me a great cook but if i bring four or five dudes from different walks of life who maybe they do or don't know each other and i orchestrate them to cook you a great dinner that makes me a great chef and so i realized right then that i have to stop cooking and um i need to start training so i immediately because i was the chef who was like working saute and expediting i went around the other side of the expo and i started expediting and you guys are cooking and at that point is when i was

when I realize I'm not going to teach recipes ever. I'm going to teach approach. I'm going to teach like mindset philosophy. I'm going to teach you to think the way that I think, not recreate what I'm doing, but to create the way that I create. Right, because then you can't solve problems. Exactly.

And so like if you have, if you're a restaurant that has a beet sauce and the beet sauce recipe has 35 grams of sugar, every time, regardless of how sweet the beats are, it's never going to be perfect. So my idea of consistency is not that it should be the exact same every time.

It should be the fucking best every time. I have this idea about first kisses. If the kiss is exactly the same on the second and third and fourth time, it's not as exhilarating. You don't need the kiss to be the same. You need the kiss to be as good. So if it's the best kiss you can have,

it'll be just as good as the first kiss. Right. Yeah, there's like a proportionality. Yeah. Context. So, you know, as we've grown, what I've done is I've promoted from within. There's this, there's this, you've heard of chef driven. Most restaurants when you hear chef driven is like, well, we put bacon on our Caesar salad. The CEO of Scratch Restaurants Group was my sous chef at Scratch Bar in 2015.

And as he's aged out of cooking, slowly has just been my right hand and we've grown. And now the entire company, not the people who do the taxes, but the entire logistical brand of the company are chefs who have aged out. And so chefs get things done. We're efficient.

We do not fail. Problem solve. Figure shit out. Correct. And, you know, I never meant to, open this many restaurants. What actually happened was when I sold, so the restaurant that Joe blew up, that was a pop-up and that was our fourth location of sushi bar. Private equity comes in,

offers to buy that location, just that one, not my other ones. At that moment, I'm only a 50% owner of all my restaurants in California. Marguerite and I are 50% owners. The deal is going to allow me to buy out all my partners in California and go back to 100% ownership of everything that we had. And so I did. I sold that one location. It was in East Austin here. They were supposed to run that. They'd run sushi bar Austin.

I'd run sushi bar L.A., sushi bar, L.A., because I had two of them. You know, when I was on Rogan in January of 22, at that moment, I don't think I had a single restaurant open because I had ones in LA that were still closed in California that were still closed and I had just sold the one in Austin and now today there's 27.

I mean, that's insane. Three years. Keep in mind, though, that my biggest restaurant is the size of this in, you know, this room, right? You could fit all 27 restaurants in a TGI Fridays. Right. Right? So, you know, the thing was

and you asked me this earlier before we even started rolling, but like I had to figure out a model that didn't exist because the model that existed was invest millions of dollars take three years to break even. I had to open restaurants and break even on week one or else I would die. Right. And so my father-in-law would build the restaurant. My father-in-law would build them.

I would go with him and I would help, you know, like in New York, all the brick on the wall, I spent 48 hours, I did all that brick, you know, with a fucking thing myself. So we would open restaurants. Again, it's a DIY fucking punk mentality. It's like, fuck you, I'm not giving up. I have like over 300 employees now. Every single person has a 401k with a 5% match, which is the legal limit.

You can't match more than that. Even my dishwashers. Everybody, if one of my chefs who's making six figures, his, you know, girl is, given birth or whatever, six week full pay paternity. You know, medical, dental, benefits, extended education stipend, everything we can give, we do. And instead of starting kids out of culinary school at minimum wage, we now start them at like, depending on the restaurants, somewhere between like, you know, low 60s, mid-70s.

I have this idea that we should stop being the help. We should stop being, you know, just service. We should be professionals. Yeah. You know, and so, I mean, I think chefs should make as much money as lawyers. I think chef should make as much money as anyone else. And I think that this should become a career where you could, you know, your parents can be proud that like, you know, not only have you found success, but you now, you drive a nice car and you bought yourself a house. Other than my brother and I getting that Michelin thing,

the proudest I've ever been is when one of my cooks who came, started with me while he was in culinary school when he was like maybe 19 or 20, still works with me 12 years later. He came to me and said, chef, I just got approved to buy my own house in California. And that was the coolest thing ever, because now not only do I care about him like a son, but like we're providing a life that I don't need that much to be happy. I have a nice house.

I have everything that I need, right? And so I thought, these are my real partners. Everyone who shows up, because I'm not at the restaurant every day. I can't be. But they are and they deserve, you know, basically what I did is when I bought out my 50% of my partners, is the full 50% that used to go to my partners went out into fucking salaries and benefits. And you probably have no turnover.

Like, I couldn't imagine people are leaving. There's still turnover. I mean, I'm sure, like anything, but I'm sure a lot of people are going off to start their own restaurants and chase their own dreams. There are several speakeasy, 10-seat sushi restaurants around the country that are alum. Yeah.

Several of them in Austin, too. Mm-hmm. And I can imagine there's probably people clamoring to just be a part of what you've built. Well, the thing is what you actually want, and this is where Thomas Keller is, and I mentioned earlier, legacy, for a chef, your art doesn't get hung on the wall. It's gone. When you're gone, it's gone. What lives on is the family tree. It's the lineage that you train under him, he trained under him, and he trained under him. And so what you want as a chef is that one day it means something to have worked for you. I mean, that's awesome. Well, Chef Phil, it means something that you're a friend of mine, truly, and I'm very grateful to call your friend and a brother,

and I appreciate everything today, all the knowledge, and just even hearing the stories. A lot of the stuff maybe you've told before that I've never heard, which is fascinating. There's a lot we talked about that I don't think I've talked about. Well, I appreciate that. Well, thank you for doing it with me. It means the world.

Thank you so much, brother. Thanks for having me. And we're actually going to check out sushi by scratch restaurants tonight. Hell yeah. I'm excited. Thank you again, brother. Absolutely, my pleasure.