Camp Gagnon - The FINAL Days on Earth Explained

Starting point is 00:00:00 Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca. Six-headed monsters, a river of blood, a woman with eagle wings, locus with human faces, and a dragon, and of course the most infamous demonic number.

Starting point is 00:00:39 That is literally the source for Satanism, the occult, and hundreds of conspiracy theories. This is the book of Revelation. Perhaps the most terrifying, thrilling, and confusing apocalyptic text in the entire Bible, from angels, monsters, plagues, beasts, and all kinds of things with multiple wings, tons of eyes, and a bunch of horns, to the city of God. Judgment Day and the well-known Armageddon, Lake of Fire, and of course, the end of the world. This is the text that human beings over the last 2,000 years have turned to, to decode the apocalypse, to look for what will happen and how the people of God can escape it.

Starting point is 00:01:14 For 2,000 years, people have been arguing about what revelation really means. Who is the beast? What is 666? When is it all going to happen? But almost nobody stops to ask, perhaps the most simple question. What does this text actually say? it predicts, not who it's really about, just scene by scene, image by image. What does John claim that he saw? Well, today we're going through all of it. We are going to walk through chapter by chapter

Starting point is 00:01:39 step by step from beginning to end, and we're going to discover what is actually in this book and what is still left up to interpretation. So today we are not solving revelation. I'm sorry, but we will be opening it. So sit back, relax, and welcome to Religion Camp. What's up, people, and welcome back to religion camp. My name is Mark Gagnon, and thank you for joining me in my tent where every single Sunday we explore the most interesting,

Starting point is 00:02:11 fascinating, and controversial stories from every religion from all time forever. Yes, that is what I do here on this very show as I try to figure out what everybody believes. I do this show for two reasons, all right? I do it one, because I feel dumb walking around, not knowing what everyone believes. For a lot of people, billions of people on this planet,

Starting point is 00:02:27 God is the most important thing to them, and I walk around and I meet them, and I'm like, I don't even know who your God is. So whether it's, Islam, Hinduism, Mormonism, Judaism, I try to find out what is actually at the core of these faiths and the people that follow them. Additionally, I like to take all the good stuff from every faith I study

Starting point is 00:02:45 and apply it to my own life. Now, admittedly, I was raised Catholic, so that is a very important part to my upbringing and kind of who I am as a human being. And I take all the good stuff from every other religion and apply it into my framework and my spiritual journey. And oh boy, today we're diving into a fascinating topic that has plagued the Catholic mind

Starting point is 00:03:03 for, I mean, basically 2,000 years. And Christians all over the world discuss this text at length. But before we jump into Revelation, I just want to say a few more things. One, I want to say thanks to you. Yeah, dude. I want to say thank you for tuning in to this show.

Starting point is 00:03:15 Every time you click on an episode or you know, you comment or you like or subscribe or even post on Instagram, whatever you do, it helps, truly. It helps the algorithm know that this is good content. It, you know, shows other people that we're, you know, we've got a cool little community here. And, you know, you keep the lights on in the 10. you keep the fire burning here at the campsite.

Starting point is 00:03:34 Also, I want to thank my palpit, my palpados, the Greek freak himself, the Orthodox legend. He has returned from his escapade in Noxos or wherever he was in order to join us. How are you? Crete, but yes, you were in Crete. I'm sorry, okay, my bad, which it is a beautiful place, Crete. Love it. We don't have time to hear about your holiday, okay, because we are talking about perhaps the most, you know, debated, contested, and, you know, I would say, misunderstood text. the entirety of biblical canon.

Starting point is 00:04:05 And that is the book of Revelation. And today, we're going to go through the whole thing. And I'm sure you know, this is one of the most complicated texts in the entire, maybe like the totality of like ancient scripture of any religion. I mean, it is this strange apocalyptic literature. And there's all sorts of stuff in there that is difficult to understand. People have disagreed about how to even read the text for literal centuries. But today, we're just going to go through it, scene by scene, chapter by chapter, and learn what's actually in the weird book, not going through every possible interpretation because that is its own, you know, 20 podcast series.

Starting point is 00:04:41 And we're not going to decode every image. Not today. You know, we are planning a bunch of episodes that will focus on laying out all these different interpretations. And, you know, is there going to be a year, a thousand years apiece and then the apocalypse or is there going to be the apocalypse? And then peace, like all this stuff that's super kind of nuanced. But just for today, we're going to explain everything. So to start off, we're going to just lay out what's in the book and kind of walk through the context that we know, like, who wrote it, when, who, what, when, where, why, all that stuff. So let's just start with the basics, okay? The book of Revelation or the Revelation of John or the Apocalypse of John is the last book of the New Testament. If you know nothing about Christianity, our Bible is split up into the Old Testament and the New Testament. And I'm just going to put that out there because there's really no better spot for it other than, you know, the tail end because it is talking about the end of the world. And here. Here's what I mean by that. In the New Testament, you've got four Gospels, which are the stories ultimately about the life of Jesus Christ. You've got letters, like, literally like mail written by early Christian leaders to actual churches, usually given to them, kind of instructing them on, you know, what Jesus would want for the church and teaching them, you know, Christ's ways. And then you've got a history book, you know, acts basically detailing the growth in the movement over the first few decades of Christianity. And then at the very end of the New Testament, you get to this.

Starting point is 00:05:59 It's a book of thrones and beasts and angels and trumpets and disaster and so many songs. I mean, an insane amount of songs. And then a dead lamb that somehow controls the fate of the whole universe. And then there's a dragon. And then there's, you know, streets made out of gold. The book is nothing like anything else you see in the entirety of the New Testament. It doesn't even really read like the rest of the Bible. I mean, there's like some other apocalyptic literature in the Bible.

Starting point is 00:06:26 But like this is, it stands out. And it's not an accident. It's a completely different kind of writing. It's a different genre. The book's name actually tells you what it is. We call it Revelation and everyday speech. But the very first word of the original Greek text is Apocalypse. And that's actually where we get the word apocalypse from, obviously.

Starting point is 00:06:46 Now, there's a big misconception here. When we say Apocalypse today, we mean the end of the world, right? Like you can think of movies like explosions and like some zombies and like destruction. Okay, that's technically not what the word originally meant. Like, when we're talking about Apocalypseis, like the Greek version, it literally means an unveiling, like a disclosure, pulling back the curtain, like showing the totality of reality. I'm sorry to rhyme, but you got what I'm saying. Like, you can think of it like pulling back the curtain on the Wizard of Oz, that you couldn't just see the truth, but it was kind of always there. And an apocalypse, in the original sense, isn't the end of everything in existence.

Starting point is 00:07:26 since it is the ultimate reveal of everything that was right there that you couldn't see before. And with that in mind, it actually reframes the book. Like, almost immediately, the text is now subtly different. Revelation isn't primarily trying to be like the countdown to Armageddon. It's claiming to be the unveiling, to show the curtain being pulled back. So in this story, somebody is being shown something, this unveiling. And that somebody is a man named John. And I say that specifically, and we'll get to that in a second.

Starting point is 00:07:58 But what he's being shown, I'll also explain in detail, which brings us to what's actually in the book. Scholars say that Revelation is doing three things at once. So let's just kind of go through them. The first one is an apocalypse, right? Remember what it actually means. That's the genre, the kind of writing. It is this unveiling.

Starting point is 00:08:15 And that was actually not unusual to the ancient Jewish world where, you know, human beings would get shown hidden or heavenly or like future realities. is usually guided by some type of, you know, otherworldly being, like, you know, a vision or, you know, seeing angels or being exposed to, like, these, like, weird symbolic scenes, like, you know, going to heaven themselves. That is the apocalyptic genre kind of repertoire. That is the toolkit. And Revelation uses all of the tools in this toolkit at some point.

Starting point is 00:08:45 The second thing is prophecy. The book calls itself that, like, pretty directly. But, again, be careful because prophecy doesn't just mean, like, Oh, I'm seeing the future because in the biblical sense, a prophet is someone from God who was sent to call his people to be faithful and to change course and to turn away from sin and to do all the stuff that prophets do. It's a kind of like a decree on how to live as much as it is to forecast the future. And the third thing that the revelation is doing is that it's a letter. And people always forget this. Like John wrote all this out for someone specifically.

Starting point is 00:09:25 It wasn't like a diary that he wrote down and was like, this was crazy and then closed it. Like this is not a dream diary. It opens like a letter. It's addressed to seven specific churches that are real congregations in actual cities with real people in actual problems. And then it closes like a letter. And that's why Revelation can kind of feel like whiplash.

Starting point is 00:09:44 Because one second, it's very pastoral. You know, it's very intimate. Like, you know, to the people. in this church at this town, I am addressing your specific problem. And then bang, there's like this cosmic story and there's dragons and the skies exploding and like all that stuff. So it's a letter and an apocalypse and a prophecy all at the same time. So, you know, here's the analogy that I think is helpful to use. Like imagine trying to describe a dream, like any dream that you've had. Like it's super vivid, overwhelming. And you're only able to use words. Like the way that a dream like kind of jumps around

Starting point is 00:10:18 in time the way like one scene kind of just like melts into the other and like it made a lot of sense to you in the dream but then you're explaining to someone and you're like this makes no sense at all but like you know you were there but you weren't really you and you know i was doing this thing and i don't know why but i just knew that i was supposed to like the way that like the images in a dream feel more true somehow than just like the plain description ever could the feeling of just knowing that something in a dream is you know like it's important to you in the moment without really being able to explain it that is the best way to look at revelation. It doesn't usually stop and argue a point.

Starting point is 00:10:52 It doesn't try to explain every detail. Like, you know, trust me, this makes sense. It just paints a picture. And those images mean something. And, you know, we today, like you and I, we just kind of argue about what that is. But before we can even talk through the visions in detail, we still need to talk about who.

Starting point is 00:11:07 Who is the guy? Who actually got this revelation? Because the who here and where he was when it all started is kind of its own mystery in its own right. And the thing is, if you know the story of Jesus at all, if you have any kind of familiarity with the Gospels, there's a chance that you already know him. Today's episode is sponsored by Incogni. There is a religious idea that God knows everything about you, whether you are Christian or Muslim or Jewish. God knows all. He knows your mistakes, your thoughts, what you've done, what you're going to do.

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Starting point is 00:13:34 that's a pretty important guy. And so a lot of people just connect it and say, of course, the Gospel of John. That's the same guy that wrote Revelation. But here's the thing. The book never confirms it. So when you read it front to back, the author calls himself John, but he never once calls himself an apostle. He never says, I'm one of the 12. He never says, and then I saw Jesus, and I was super stoked because I know Jesus and we're best friends. He just calls himself John and then calls himself a brother, like a fellow person that is suffering alongside the people that he's writing to. Now, later Christian traditions absolutely did connect the two. An early church writer named Aaronaeus writing in the second century does link Revelations John to the Apostle John. And that became the popular view for basically up until now. But even modern scholars are starting to separate them.

Starting point is 00:14:20 And to keep it neutral and to avoid claiming something that the text doesn't say, scholars just call the author by the one detail that we are actually sure of. And that is where he was. So the scholars of the modern era will call John, John of Patmos. Because John does tell us in the text that he received the whole thing while on an island called Patmos. This is a small, like, rocky kind of island in the Aegean Sea off the coast of now Western Turkey. Now, why was he there? Well, again, the text doesn't really say. John just says that he was on Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. That's it.

Starting point is 00:15:00 He doesn't personally, like, walk us through, like, okay, before I get to this dream, so I'm in Patmos, and the reason I'm there, like, he just kind of like says it. Now, the tradition, again, of the early church leaders, they kind of fill in the gap. So later Christians say that John, was exiled there, banished, sent to the island as punishment, maybe even sentenced to like manual labor in the mines on the island. And that's the image that most people will carry. Like the lonely prophet, he writes the gospels, he's dumped on a prison island, staring at the sea,

Starting point is 00:15:28 and then has this crazy revelation. And it's a great story. And it might be true. But, you know, again, that's tradition in the church kind of filling in blanks. And the book just sort of leaves it open-ended. So the text itself just says he was there because of God's, word. Okay. So now just so everyone's on board, you have John that wrote the Gospels. You also have a John that wrote the book of Revelation. They might be the same person. Modern scholars call the

Starting point is 00:15:52 Revelation John of Patmos, and they say, John the Apostle is just John the Apostle. But again, early church leaders were like, no, no, no, John the Apostle is John of the same John. You get what I'm saying. Now, the when here is also really debated. And this one is a heater. Most scholars land on like the late first century, often during the reign of the Roman Emperor Domitian. So somewhere around like 90s A.D., that's the majority view. And it goes all the way back again to Aranaeus. But that detail is not fully unanimous. Some scholars argue that it even is an earlier date putting it back closer to the time of

Starting point is 00:16:28 the Emperor Nero, closer to like 60s A.D. Now, we're not going to settle that today. The safe way to discuss it, the honest way is that most discussions put Revelation in the late first century, although the exact date is still debated. But what we can say for sure is the situation that it was written in. Regardless of the exact decade, the timeline here is like pretty clear to most scholars that these were still very early Christians. It was a small misunderstood movement living inside this massive empire dealing with a ton of social pressure. And, you know, some of it was official pressure, some of it was violent, like Christians were getting killed. Some people

Starting point is 00:17:05 saw it as like a cult. And it's into that world. of social pressure, government pressure, and this small group of Christians trying to keep it all together, that this strange and terrifying book actually shows up. And it derives first, like I said, as a letter addressed to seven churches. So the book opens with something called a chain. So let's just read that part really quick, and then I'll break it down. It reads like this, the revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant, John. You know who just is. John is now, who testifies to everything he saw. That is the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Starting point is 00:17:44 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it because the time is near. A little bit ominous. The time is near. I mean, that's like classic, you know, the world is ending type vibes, right? It's not a little ominous. It is. It's ominous, right? That's basically how it opens. So this chain is also called a prologue, giving you context for the book. So God gives the revelation of Jesus. Jesus is God. Jesus makes it known through an angel.

Starting point is 00:18:15 The angel shows it to John. And then John writes it down for everybody to see. Revelation passed hand to hand down the ladder from God to an angel to a guy with a pen. And then John greets his readers and offers them grace and peace, you know, the equivalent of being like, what's up guys? Hope everyone's doing good. Asalam al-a-lakeem. And then he drops a really important phrase that will, echo throughout the entire book. And that is basically this. God calling himself the alpha and the

Starting point is 00:18:41 omega. The first letter of the Greek alphabet and the last. So pretty clearly saying the beginning and the end. And then John hears it. It's like a voice. And he says it's loud like a trumpet behind him, telling him to write down what he's about to see and send it to seven churches. John turns around to see who's talking to him. And then bang, the first vision starts. He sees seven golden lamp. shades. And standing in the middle of them is, quote, one like the son of man. Now, the son of man is one of the ways that the Bible typically refers to Jesus. Though again, the text in Revelation doesn't say it explicitly, but it does describe that he is a towering figure with hair, white as snow, eyes like flames of fire, feet like glowing bronze, a voice like rushing waters with seven stars in his right

Starting point is 00:19:29 hand, a sharp double-edged sword coming out of his mouth and a face shining like the sun, at full strength. It's a pretty remarkable image specifically of Jesus Christ. You're like, wait, that's not the Jesus that I remember reading about in the Gospels. And John's reaction, when he sees him, he drops. He completely falls down, just like collapses at the feet of this figure, a quote, as though he was dead. And then the figure reaches down and says, hey, don't be afraid. I'm the first and the last. Remember Alpha Omega, I was dead. And look, not only am I not dead, I'm alive forever. Now, here's something really crucial, because right here, Revelation does something, that it does not always do.

Starting point is 00:20:08 It stops and explains what's going on. So the figure tells John that two of the symbols are very important. He explains what two of the symbols mean. The seven lampshades represent the seven churches and the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches. And remember, Revelation doesn't normally do this. Most of the time, it kind of shows you something crazy and then it moves on.

Starting point is 00:20:28 And I'll show you all those examples on a little bit. So when the text hands you the answer, I'm like pretty stoked. I'm like, nice. We got, okay, that one is clean. cut. These lampshades are the churches, stars, those are angels. And when it doesn't explain it, we just have to kind of be honest about that and not pretend that we know 100% for sure what it's saying. So that's the opening, seven churches. And next, John writes each one a short little,

Starting point is 00:20:51 like a little punchy little beat. You know what I mean? He spits a little freestyle at him. Now, keep mind, these are real churches with real people in seven cities across the Roman province of Asia. And you can actually still visit like the ruins of these cities. And you can actually still visit like the ruins of these cities to this day. So let's just go through all of them. First, there is Ephesus. And John praised them for working super hard and not tolerating liars. But then he scolds them for one thing.

Starting point is 00:21:16 He says that they've abandoned the love they had at first. So he's basically like, hey, you guys are doing great. You got the discipline, but you're losing the heart. You're losing the soul of what this is all about. And then we have Smyrna. It's one of the only two churches that John has no criticism for. They're suffering. They're poor.

Starting point is 00:21:33 and he straight up tells him, hey, it might get worse for you before it gets better, but just keep on being faithful. You're doing a good job. And then there is Pergamum and Thytira. And these two churches get, I guess we'll call it mixed reviews, probably three out of five stars. So they're praised for some things, but they get called out for teachings and practices that the text links to idolatry and immorality. And then you have the church of Sardis. This one, this one's bad.

Starting point is 00:21:59 This is not, you don't want to be in this one. Okay. John says, you have a reputation for being a lot. live, but you're dead. Essentially meaning like, hey, you got great PR. You got the right Instagram account. You got the nice, you know, like a little photographer taking all the sweet picks, but you got no pulse.

Starting point is 00:22:14 You got nothing behind it, okay? You're a walking dead man. You talk to talk, but you do not practice what you preach. And then you have the church of Philadelphia. Now, funny enough, this is the other church with no criticism. Shocking. That Philly, of all places, John's basically like, hey, you guys are small. You're not powerful, but you're keeping the faith.

Starting point is 00:22:32 and keep going, boys, go birds. That's basically what he says. He's just got nothing but love for Philly. And then the last church. This one is pretty infamous. This is the church of Laodicea. Laodicea gets torn into. John has a pretty brutal message.

Starting point is 00:22:49 He says, you are neither hot nor cold. I wish that you were one or the other. I wish you guys were super evil and hedonistic. I wish you guys were way more faithful. But because you are lukewarm, quote, I am about to spit you out of my mouth. Now, lukewarm is extremely important in this text. It's perhaps the most famous line from like all the church feedback stuff.

Starting point is 00:23:12 And I used to hear people talk about this all the time going to Presbyterian school. People would be like, don't be lukewarm. Don't be on fire for Jesus. Or don't even be in at all. Like just be in or out. It's a binary. Don't be lukewarm. But the cool thing about this is how much it actually shows that this entire revelation was written to specific people in a specific place.

Starting point is 00:23:32 in a specific time now leodicea had a genuine infrastructure issue they had a water problem the city didn't have any consistent water source of its own so it piped water in over miles through an aqueduct there's actually a neighboring city not far away called hyarapalus and it was famous for having hot springs like literal springs that came out of the ground that were hot and they were soothing and medicinal And then another neighbor had cold, fresh drinking water. But Laodicea, by the time that the water traveled all those miles to reach them, it was lukewarm. It was tepid and like kind of gross. It was useless for healing and useless for refreshing.

Starting point is 00:24:14 So when the message says, I wish you were hot or cold, but instead you are lukewarm, the people of Laudicia, they would have interpreted that extremely strongly. They would have understood exactly what they're talking about. They would have been like, oh, John's like making a comparison to our water, that the water that we get isn't actually that good. And that there's hot springs and there's cold springs, but we're just kind of this, you know, lukewarm, boring spring that doesn't do anything for anyone. Now, after the bits of feedback for all the churches, we go back into this abstract cosmic poetry. Because once the seventh letter is done, John looks up and he sees a door standing wide open and the door is to heaven. So here, John starts to repeat a phrase that we will continue to hear throughout the rest of the book. He says, in the spirit.

Starting point is 00:25:02 And this shows up in all, like, the big scene changes throughout the entire book. It's basically, like, John's way of saying, like, hey, buckle up. We're going to just kind of scene cut to a brand new place. And now, that location is heaven. John gets pulled up through that door, and he sees the literal throne room of God. And he says that it is overwhelming. John says that there's a throne, someone is sitting on it, but he doesn't even try to describe what the figure is or who's sitting on it. He just describes how the light coming off of the figure

Starting point is 00:25:34 is so bright that it fills the entirety of the room. He also says the figure on the throne looks like Jasper and Carnelian, which are precious glowing gemstones. And wrapped around the throne, there's a rainbow that looks like an emerald. And coming from the main throne, there are these flashes of lightning and rumblings and cracks of thunder. And in front of it, there are seven flaming torches. And these torches are just there and they're burning. And the text says they are the seven spirits of God. And stretched out before the throne, there's something like a sea of glass. Basically like it's crystal clear sea of glass. What exactly that means is kind of open for interpretation. So we have a kind of a green rainbow thing that

Starting point is 00:26:22 looks like emerald that's kind of, you know, surrounding the throne. You have a figure on the throne that's emitting a ton of light shining like gemstones. The throne itself is its own roaring thunderstorm thing with these torches in front of it and then a crystal clear sea in front of the throne. Now, just to pause real quick and note, keep in mind, since we're describing, you know, this dream or maybe a vision or maybe like an actual literal spiritual journey when John got to see heaven. Whatever it is, it's like so amazing and fantastical that it's impossible to describe, right? So John is just doing his best in trying to use as many similes as he can to try to give these churches and us today an idea of what he's seeing. We know this because he uses the word

Starting point is 00:27:10 like a lot. Like it's kind of a funny thing. Like it's almost like Valley Girl. You know, so he's basically like, it's not actually a rainbow made of emeralds, but it's like, it's a a rainbow that's like emeralds and we'll continue to see those sorts of descriptions throughout the book all the time right so let's move on around the central throne there are 24 more thrones and on them are sitting 24 elders dressed in white golden crowns sitting on their heads and then we see the creatures yes it is time for the creatures these at first we see four living creatures that are flying around the center throne each of them have six wings and john says they are covered in eyes, like eyeballs. Eyes in the front, eyes in the back. One looks like a lion,

Starting point is 00:27:56 one like an ox, another has a face like a human. And the last one looks like a flying eagle. They're flying around the throne singing, holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come. And while they do that, those 24 elders lay down their crowns before the center throne and then fall down on their hands and knees and join the worship. They sing a different song. They say, you are worthy, our Lord and God to receive glory and honor and power. That song's a little longer, but you get the gist. Now, that image of these flying creatures, right? Like the lion and the ox and like the human one and then the flying eagle, you'll actually see that depicted in churches all around the world. So next time you walk into like an old cathedral, look around for that because

Starting point is 00:28:43 sometimes you'll see it. Oftentimes people will, you know, connect these with gospel writers. And if I'm not mistaken, the lion is the symbol for the gospel of Mark. Look that up. I'm almost positive. That's kind of like the symbol is typically associated with that gospel. You know, my zodiac sign is a line. See, look at us. We're betwixt. We're kindred spirits. Now, that is just one little detail that that I think is kind of fun. So we have this pure, roaring, nonstop worship from the creatures and, you know, from the elders. And that's the thing about revelation that people don't really expect, how much of it is kind of interrupted by singing, like literal singing, literal music,

Starting point is 00:29:23 choirs of angels, and singing creatures and massive crowds, even all of creation itself singing and just showing worship and praise to God. But then the mood shifts. In the right hand of the one on the throne, John notices a scroll. It looks like it's written on both sides

Starting point is 00:29:42 and it's sealed shut with, once again, seven seals. And a mighty angel, calls out in a super loud voice, who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals? And then there's silence. All the singing stops, all the chanting, silent. Nobody, not in heaven, not on earth, not under the earth. No one is found worthy enough to open the scroll.

Starting point is 00:30:05 And then, according to the text, John starts to cry. He says that he wept bitterly because it seemed that no one would ever open the scroll. But one of the elders leans in and tells him, hey, don't cry. The lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered. He, he alone can open the scroll. And John turns to see the lion. And instead, he sees a lamb, a lamb standing, but looking as though it had been slaughtered. A lamb that had been killed and is now somehow impossibly on its feet alive.

Starting point is 00:30:39 Now, in Revelation's logic, the roaring lion and the slain lamb are the same thing. They're actually really important imagery that the book keeps on mentioned. over and over. But again, we should stay focused. We're not going to do any interpretation right now, just description. Anyway, the creepy thing is that the lamb is not really a normal lamb. It has seven horns and seven eyes. And the text says, those seven eyes are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. So it's not like acute lamb. It is a slaughtered, likely, bloody, seven-horned, seven-eyed lamb. And the lamb steps forward. and it takes the scroll right out of the hand of God, and heaven erupts.

Starting point is 00:31:23 It's crazy. Pandemonium, the four creatures, and the 24 elders, they fall down and start singing a new song about how the lamb is worthy to take the scroll because it was slain and all the other stuff that I mentioned. And each one of them is also holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense. Now, this part is really cool. The text says that the incense, quote, are the prayers of the saints. So it's a pretty cool image.

Starting point is 00:31:48 Every prayer is collected in a bowl in this throne room with all the creatures, elders, God himself, and of course the slain lamb. So the creatures and the 24 saints all start singing this new song. But then thousands upon thousands of other angels join in, and they all start singing another new song about how the lamb is worthy. John says myriads of myriads. Basically, like an old-school Greek way of saying, like infinity. And then every creature in heaven on earth, under the sea, in the sea, under the sea,

Starting point is 00:32:21 you know, music is better, downwards, wetter. The whole universe joins in, and there's a third new song. And they're all singing still all to the lamb. You can see how important, like, the repetition is and how integral the lamb sort of metaphor is to this entire thing. Here's just a portion of one of the songs to give you an idea. You should just go through and read the songs. They even have versions of the songs where you can listen to people's interpretations of it. But they sing, you are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because you were slain.

Starting point is 00:32:53 And with your body, you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priest to serve our God and they will reign on earth. So yeah, that's just like a piece of sort of the overall song. But you can see how beautiful it is. They're like, hey, this lamb, because it was slain and it has purchased people from all over the world, every single person, because of this sacrifice of this lamb, aka Jesus, you are worthy to open it. Now, the four creatures say amen. The elders fall down and worship. And the lamb starts to open the scroll one seal at a time.

Starting point is 00:33:30 And with the very first seal, a new vision begins. The first seal is a vision of judgment. Hey, dude, we're going to take a break really quick because I want to talk to you about something. You know the entire premise of this show is basically. me going way too deep on something. Like I'll read two books, watch a documentary, and then talk to someone for two hours. And then three weeks later, I'm like, who is the CIA guy talking about mushrooms? And that's what I love about plot. The cool thing is, I don't really think of it as a voice recorder. It's more like a searchable second brain for conversation. It looks just like this. It's

Starting point is 00:33:59 tiny. I can use the plot, no pro during a conversation or an interview or a research session or even when I'm doing a stand-up comedy show. And afterwards, it gives me a transcript, summary, key points, and action items instead of me having to go back through two hours of audio recordings. And this is the part that I actually love. I can literally ask it something like, hey, what did Tim Hogan say about the treasure of the Knights Templar? And instead of me scrubbing through an entire podcast trying to find it, ask Plod pulls the information back out of the conversation for me.

Starting point is 00:34:24 It's insane for what I do and for my life. And if something important happens while I'm recording, I can tap to highlight that moment so it knows, hey, pay attention to this. It also works across Plod desktop. So all of this stuff can live in one place instead of being scattered across voice memos and notes and podcasts and a bunch of Chrome tabs. And because these are actual conversations, the privacy side is so important. Plod says that your data isn't used to train AI and they meet standards for GDPR and HIPAA. Obviously, if you're recording a conversation with someone else, you should get

Starting point is 00:34:51 their consent. But if you're someone who has a lot of conversations or meetings or interviews or stand-up shows, check out Plod. They've also got a 30-day return policy, so you can actually try it, see if it works. And if it doesn't fit for you, you can send it back. Check out the link in the description and use the code G-A-G-N-O-N. That's Gagnon for 10. percent off. That is Gagnon at checkout in the description below. Click the link and you're going to get 10% off plot. And let's get back to the show. And now this is actually the part where a lot of people get lost when they're trying to understand Revelation. So I'll give you a little bit of an overview before we officially dive in because there is a, you can say like a rhyme and a rhythm to it. And if you

Starting point is 00:35:26 can anticipate what's coming, the chaos is like easier to kind of manage in your mind. So the whole book of Revelation moves in sets of seven. Seven is like perhaps the most significant number that shows up over and over. You've heard a bunch of them so far, right? You know, there's seven seals, seven trumpets, and then later there's seven bowls. Three big sequences of seven. Each one brings a different kind of escalating disaster. But, and this is very important, the book does not just rattle them through like a checklist. It takes its time and tells the whole thing like an actual story with, you know, rises, falls, peaks, journeys, the, you know, the details, everything.

Starting point is 00:36:06 And after each little moment it pauses and right before the last item in a sequence, John stops the action and then shows you something else, like a little side quest, a little like, you know, adjacent vision, a moment of like calm or reassurance and then delivers the finale. And those pauses are called interludes. And there's some of the most powerful moments in the entire text. So now with that structure in mind, let's go back to these seven seals that the slain lamb is opening. So the lamb opens the first seal. and John hears one of the four creatures say, in a voice like thunder, come. Then John looks around and there's suddenly a white horse,

Starting point is 00:36:44 like right there, and its rider is holding a bow. And the text says he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest. That's all we know. We are not told who this guy is or really like any details about what he looks like, only that he's on a white horse, he has a bow, he has a crown, and he's on a conqueror.

Starting point is 00:37:05 quest, whatever that means. Now, if you haven't figured this out by now, these are the famous four horsemen of the apocalypse. So every time the lamb opens the next seal, another creature that's flying around with, you know, all the wings says come, and then another horse comes out on another rider. The second seal releases a fiery red horse, and its rider is given a great sword and the power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. So yeah, that's there verbatim. the power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. Very creepy. The third seal is broken.

Starting point is 00:37:40 Another creature says, come, and then a black horse appears its rider is holding a pair of scales. And then John says something else that's a little bit ominous. He says this verbatim. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures saying, two pounds of wheat for a day's wages and six pounds of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil. and the wine. Now, this is the kind of dream stuff that is hard to really understand, right? It's something like it feels nonsensical. It kind of comes from nowhere. And I mean,

Starting point is 00:38:13 it's nonsensical to us. Like, I'm sure it's probably important, especially like specifically in context, but it just kind of comes out of nowhere. And then the story doesn't really explain anything. It just keeps on moving. It says like, hey, this is super normal and then goes right to the fourth seal. Now, this horse and rider are different than the other three. For starters, it seems like this horse comes riding out like towards John, whereas the other one's just sort of like appeared. And this is the first rider where we actually learn his name. The fourth seal breaks, and the creature says come, just like the other ones,

Starting point is 00:38:45 and a pale horse comes out. And the rider's name is death. Now the text says Hades was following close behind him. Apparently they were given power to kill a fourth of the earth by sword or famine. or plague or by like wild beasts of the earth. So I know, again, we're not really doing interpretation just yet, but just notice it specifically says that they were given power to do that. By whom you would presume that is God?

Starting point is 00:39:15 Again, I don't want to get too deep into the interpretation here, but it does say in the text that these four horsemen were given power to kill a fourth of the earth. Just interesting, though. So now, we've met the four horsemen of the apocalypse, red, white, black and pale, and we see each of their rider's instruments, like whatever they're two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation

Starting point is 00:39:48 walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of Cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca holding and it tells us a little bit about like what their purposes and then you know three out of the four are given like a little instruction. Now again, there's seven seals. Those are just four. The fifth seal, John sees souls underneath an altar. They are the souls of people who had been killed for their faith. And they cry out how long, how long until this is made right until justice comes until their blood is avenged. And then John says they're each given like a white robe and told like, hey, just wait a little

Starting point is 00:40:36 longer. Apparently the rest of their quote, fellow servants were killed in the same way they were. So it kind of sounds like they're under the altar kind of holding out waiting for like a quota of martyrs or some other type of thing. But again, we'll get into the interpretation another time. with the sixth seal, the sky itself breaks. John says that there's a massive earthquake and the sun turned black like sackcloth. That's the actual word sackcloth. And the whole moon turned red like blood and then stars start to fall from the sky, quote, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

Starting point is 00:41:17 And then the sky just kind of seems like disappear. I don't know. The text literally says, the heavens recede like a strong wind. scroll being rolled up and every mountain and island was removed from its place so again whatever that means difficult to say now you have kings princes generals the rich all of them plus everyone else they all run and hide down in caves basically begging the mountains and the rocks to fall on them you know surround them to protect them it sounds pretty brutal right and this is why they're begging for protection they are crying out quote fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the

Starting point is 00:41:55 the throne and from the wrath of the lamb for the great day of their wrath has come and who can withstand it pretty intense now like i said there's seven seals and we only went through six at this point you would expect the seventh seal to be open right this is the big finale but nope at this point there is an interlude this is like i said like the little side quest vision first in this little side quest John sees four angels holding back the four winds of the earth so that the wind can't even blow, while the other angels come up from the east, having, quote, the seal of the living God. The text says, he called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea. Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal

Starting point is 00:42:43 on the foreheads of the servants of our God. So in the text, the servants of God get sealed. And remember that detail because it's going to come up in just a little bit. So after that, John hears a number. 144,000, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, from Judah to Benjamin. And the text lists them all out. And then he looks up and he sees something that number can't contain. He sees a crowd, a massive crowd, and literally says a great multitude that no one could count from every nation, every tribe, every people, every language on earth, all of them dressed in white robes,

Starting point is 00:43:22 holding palm branches, and standing in front of the throne, singing. And then suddenly, we're back in the throne room. So, like, you see what I'm saying? Like, there's, you know, the lamb is opening the seven seals. All of a sudden, right before the seven, we go on this diversion. We see this multitude, all these people in robes, singing from all the different tribes. And then, bang, back to the throne room. And now we're in the throne room.

Starting point is 00:43:43 We've got all the angels, not some, not many of them, all of them. every angel is standing around the throne around the elders and around those four you know like massive kind of terrifying creatures and then the angels join them all falling down on their faces and worshiping god now at this point one of the elders comes up to john and he asks him he goes who are these people the ones in white robes and john says sir you know and then the elder answers his own question he goes these are the ones who've come out of the great tribulation They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb. He goes on about these people in these white robes saying that they will serve God. They're never going to hinder. They'll never thirst, like all that good stuff.

Starting point is 00:44:30 And then this is actually the passage where we're here. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. And that's a really important line because people, especially if you grew up in like any type of Christian church or Christian community, people quote that line all the time when they talk about heaven. And this is specifically where it comes from. that idea that God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. This is the text. And then, of course, that big finale, the seventh seal opens.

Starting point is 00:44:57 And it opens to silence. Silence in all of heaven, all the angels, creatures, elders. It is dead silent for like half an hour. And it's weird because the text is super specific about how long they're silent for. Literally, it's like, yeah, about half an hour. And then out of that silence, seven angels step forward. And they are handed seven trumpets. Specifically, John says, and I saw the seven angels who stand before God and seven trumpets were given to them.

Starting point is 00:45:23 So it's not really just like any seven angels. It seems like these are like super specific angels. It says the seven angels. And then again, this entire pattern sort of starts over, but now it's leveled up. Remember how I said Revelation moves in like three big sequences of seven? Well, this is the herald of the second sequence. There's another angel, not one of the seven who get the trumpets. He walks up to the altar holding a golden censor.

Starting point is 00:45:51 That's like an incense burner, basically. And he's handed like a ton of incense, like a lot. And the whole point is to mix with the prayers of God's people. So literally everybody's prayers all going up together off this golden altar right in front of the throne. It's kind of a beautiful image, like the smoke and the prayers and the incense all rising up towards God out of the angel's hand. And then the angel takes the same sensor, the incense thing. fills it with fire straight off the altar and he chucks it down at the earth. And the second it hits earth, there is rumbling and thunder and lightning cracking across the sky and then a massive earthquake.

Starting point is 00:46:29 So just think about that. The prayers go up like smoke and then something comes back down. And then we turn our attention back to those seven angels. Each one of them has got a trumpet and they line up and they get ready to blow one at a time. And every single blast makes something new happen. So with the first angel that blows the first trumpet, hail and fire come raining down. But it's not just any old hail and fire. It is mixed with blood and a third of the entire earth burns up as a result. And then we have the second angel with the second trumpet and something like a giant mountain completely on fire gets thrown into the sea. And a third of the sea then turns into blood. And a third of everything in it dies as a result and a third of the

Starting point is 00:47:11 ships in the sea get destroyed. And then of course you have a third angel and this time a great star comes screaming down out of the sky, blazing like a torch and it lands on a third of the rivers and the springs, completely just destroying the drinking water. And what's interesting in this passage is that the star actually gets a name. The name is wormwood. Wherever it touches, the water turns bitter and is basically poisoned. And John says that a lot of people die from drinking this poisoned water. And then there's the fourth angel. Now it's the sky itself. A third of the sun and the moon and the stars.

Starting point is 00:47:47 A third of all of it just goes dark. So that's four, right? You have four trumpets, four angels, four disasters. And then after all that, you'd be like, all right, finally, we're going to get a break, right? No. Because right then, John looks up and he sees an eagle flying straight through the middle of the sky and it's screaming one word three times. Woe, woe, wo to everybody living on earth.

Starting point is 00:48:09 Why is this eagle saying, well, because there are three trumpets left. And apparently those are the worst ones. So the fifth angel comes up and a fifth trumpet blows. And this is when like the real kind of terrifying nightmare stuff begins. John sees a star that had already fallen from the sky down to the earth. And the star gets handed a key. And this is a key to the abyss, the bottomless pit. and the star takes the key and unlocks it.

Starting point is 00:48:41 And the second it opens, smoke comes pouring out of the abyss. And John says it's like the smoke of a giant furnace. And then out of that smoke, there are locusts. And these are not like normal locusts. Like you know what a locust is. It's not that. They're like evil mutant locusts with stinging powers like scorpions. And they get very specific instructions.

Starting point is 00:49:02 Don't touch any plants. Don't harm the nature. only go after the human beings, only attack the people, but only the people who don't have the seal of God on their foreheads. Remember the seal I was talking about earlier, the mark on the forehead of all of God's people? Well, yeah, it turns out that it was like a shield or like some type of like repellent.

Starting point is 00:49:22 And that is what is shielding the people of God from these kind of mutant evil locust things. Now here's the twist. The locusts aren't actually allowed to kill anyone. All they're allowed to do is torture. So for five months, they are just torturing all of humanity that doesn't have the seal of God on their foreheads. And the pain is like scorpion stings over and over. And it's so unbearable that John says, people are going to go looking for death and they won't be able to find it.

Starting point is 00:49:51 They will be begging to die, but death won't ever come for them. Super dark. I mean, a pretty awful thing. They're just tortured for months and months waiting to die and they never do. Now, that's not even the worst part about these logos, because John described. them in a very strange freakish way. He says they are shaped like horses geared up for war. And apparently they've got what looks like little crowns of gold on their heads.

Starting point is 00:50:16 And then they have faces. But these are not locusts or like bug faces. They are human faces. He says their hair is long like women's hair. Their teeth are like lion's teeth. They've got chest plates with iron armor. And when they fly, the sounds of the wings is like a whole army of horses and chariots charging into battle. And now, of course, you're not going to have a, you know,

Starting point is 00:50:39 legion of mutant locust without having some type of, you know, leader, right? You need an organization here. So there's a king, and he's called the Angel of the Abyss. And his name, depending on the translation or like the language, is Abadon or Apollyon, both of which mean the same thing in their respective languages, and that is the destroyer. So yeah, I don't even really know what there is to say about that specific vision. It's just wild. And now keep in mind, all of that, the locusts, the torturing people, the human faces, and the leader of all the locust, that's just one trumpet. And then John goes, that's just the first woe. Remember, that eagle put out three woes. There are still two left. So we'll go through these

Starting point is 00:51:21 next two a little quicker. All right, you have the sixth trumpet. And a voice comes out of the golden altar in front of God. And it gives an order to the angel who's holding the trumpet. And it says, release the four angels who are tied up at the Great River Euphrates. Now, these four angels had apparently been kept ready, tied up in this river for this exact moment, and they are let loose to kill a third of all mankind. And they don't come alone. They bring an entire army. John even gives us the number of the mounted troops with an actual quote.

Starting point is 00:51:53 He says, the number of the mounted troops was twice 10,000 times 10,000. I heard their number. What does that mean, dude? The number of the mounted troops twice 10... Okay, hold on. Let me read this again. The number of the mounted troops was twice 10,000 times 10,000.

Starting point is 00:52:14 What, like, a riddle? 20,000 times 10,000? Okay. 200,000 times the number of troops? 200 million. Yeah, that's right. I forgot to move the decimal. 200 million.

Starting point is 00:52:29 That's what John's saying here, saying, yo, 200 million of these soldiers wearing breastplates that are fiery red, dark blue, like a deep sulfuric, like yellow. And the horses that they're riding, they have, of course, they're not normal horses. They have heads that are like lions. And also, out of their mouths, they breathe smoke, fire, and sulfur. And they're terrifying. But that is not all.

Starting point is 00:52:54 Their tails are also deadly because their tails are like snakes with like an actual, like head of a snake at the end of their tail and these snakes are hungry and they're biting. And still, after all that, the locusts, 200 million, a third of the human race dead, horses with lion heads and snake tails. What about the people that survive? Because think about it, like one third of the people are gone, two thirds are still alive. Well, John says they don't change, meaning like they don't repent to God. They don't turn away from their sin.

Starting point is 00:53:25 They keep on murdering and stealing all that stuff. and they keep right on worshipping their demons and their idols and themselves, the gold ones, the silver, the bronze, the stone, the wood, the ones that can't see here or walk. None of it makes any difference. They see this massive calamity, but yet they don't turn towards God. So they went through an apocalypse, basically, a version of an apocalypse, and somehow they still double down.

Starting point is 00:53:52 But again, that's only two woes. We still have another woe. after all that carnage, the locust, third of humanity gone, the story actually takes a little bit of a break. And John sees something different. Not a monster this time, but an angel, a mighty one. This guy basically comes down from the heavens wrapped in a cloud. There is a rainbow over his head.

Starting point is 00:54:11 His face is said to be shining like the sun, and his legs are like pillars of fire. So you have to picture this towering figure glowing, coming down, and he's holding a little scroll. And it's actually already open in his hand. And then he plants one foot in the sea and the other foot on land. Like he's basically like, you can see it's like straddling the whole world. And he lets out a shout.

Starting point is 00:54:34 He says it's more like a roar, like a lion's roar. And when he roars, seven thunders answer him back. These aren't just like loud claps or rumbles. Like seven thunders are speaking and they say actual words. And John, remember he's writing down everything that he sees. He goes down to jot what the thunders are saying. then bang interrupted a voice from heaven stops him in his tracks and it says seal up what the seven thunders said do not write it down hold on what this is a book where like the entire point is like

Starting point is 00:55:06 revealing this is the apocalyptic it's like hey show us everything god wants everyone to see this the unveiling of all reality right and then in the middle of it john is about to write down like and then okay the thunders came down and the thunder said and then bang he's interrupted and specifically ordered not to share with you and me what's going on so we will never know what the seven thunders said or maybe we will you know at the end of everything i guess technically in my opinion as a catholic we will all know but now it's not the time it's the only redacted line in the whole book in the whole revelation files there is one black bar and it is over what the thunders said i don't know what it could be i mean who like who even knows maybe

Starting point is 00:55:53 Maybe it's profanity. Could it be a terrible swear word that we're not supposed to hear? It's redacted. It might be redacted. I think, I don't know. Anyway, that mighty angel, the one that's unlike the sea in the land and talking to the thunder. Well, he raises his right hand up to heaven. And he swears an oath.

Starting point is 00:56:09 By God himself, the one who lives forever, who made the heavens in the earth and the sea and everything in them. And here's what he swears. There will be no more delay. So he's saying that when the seventh angel finally blow him. his trumpet, the last trumpet, the mystery of God will be finished. Like the mystery will be revealed, just like God told his prophets it would be. And the clock will basically run out, and there's one trumpet left. And then the same voice from heaven comes back to John, and it gives him a job.

Starting point is 00:56:39 It says, hey, go take the scroll, the open one, out of the hand of the angels standing on the sea and the land. So John kind of like waddles up to this massive glowing world straddling angel and says, thank you very much for the scroll. And this is where it gets weird. because the angel says, hey, you got to eat the scroll. John's like, that's not normal what you do to scrolls. This is something that you read.

Starting point is 00:56:59 He goes, you got to eat it. So we give John, you know, kind of like a heads up about kind of what's coming. He goes, it's going to be sweet as honey in your mouth, but it's going to turn your stomach sour. So John takes it and he's like, all right, let a rip, pops a scroll and eats it. And it happens exactly like the angel said. And then John says that he's told, you've got to prophesy again. about a whole lot of peoples and nations and languages and kings and everything else. But the text doesn't really clarify who tells John to do this, and John doesn't even know.

Starting point is 00:57:31 He literally just says, then I was told. And so then this interlude keeps on going, and John eats a scroll, it's sweet, and then it's bitter and sour in a stomach. And then immediately, someone hands him a measuring stick and once again gives him an assignment. The assignment is this. Go measure the temple of God in the altar and count the worship. but leave out the outer court. Don't measure that part because it's been handed over to the Gentiles and they're going to trample the Holy City for 42 months,

Starting point is 00:58:01 aka three and a half years. And then God says, I'm going to send my two witnesses and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, which is basically like the same three and a half years. Like that's roughly the same time. And they will be dressed in sackcloth the whole time. Now, who are these two?

Starting point is 00:58:24 Well, John gives us a pretty unhelpful clue. It's pretty cryptic, but he says they're the two olive trees and the two lampshades that stand before the Lord of the Earth. Which is not super specific, but that is what the text says. And here's what matters is that you don't want to mess with these two. Because if anyone tries to hurt these two, fire will come out of their mouths and burn the attacker alive. And that's not all. They literally have the power to close. up the sky so that it doesn't rain. They have the power to turn water into blood and hit the earth

Starting point is 00:58:58 with any plague that they want whenever they want to. They're basically like two natural disasters, killers of men manifest just like on the loose for a whole three and a half years. And then when their time runs out, John tells us what will happen. A beast will come out of the abyss. That same like bottomless pit with like all the smoke and where the locusts came out of. And it will attack and kill them. Their bodies will be left in the public square of the great city for three and a half days and people from every nation will come and just stare at the corpses. Nobody's allowed to bury them. And apparently these people will be happy about it. They'll be celebrating, sending each other gifts like it's a holiday because everybody hates these guys. So the whole world

Starting point is 00:59:42 basically throws a party and these two individuals are dead. And then after three and a half days, the breath of life from God will go into them. They will stand up and everybody who sees them are completely terrified. I mean, pretty understandable. They were just dead in the public square for a couple days and all of a sudden now they're alive. And then they will hear a voice from heaven that tells them come up here. And they will just go up to heaven in a cloud while everybody is watching right there on the street. And at that exact moment, a massive earthquake will hit and a tenth of the city will collapse. Seven thousand people will die and the survivors are terrified and they will give glory to the god of heaven that they

Starting point is 01:00:25 lived now this is a very important section because notice the difference in the people's response compared to the last time that like a third of the people died remember that the last time people go through this horrendous thing and they refuse to change they don't turn away from the demonic they don't turn away from their idols and what's interesting is that here some of them actually responded and that they actually change their ways and then john closes it out he says the second woe has passed. The third woe is coming soon. And in that moment, the seventh trumpet blows. Now, at the sound of the seventh trumpet, John says that there were loud voices in heaven saying how the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of God. And the 24 elders started

Starting point is 01:01:07 worshipping again now with a new song. And then it says God's temple was opened. And inside the temple is the ark of the covenant. And yet another thunderstorm and another earthquake. happens and then suddenly John sees something completely new. He says, a great sign appeared in heaven. And this time, it's a woman. She's clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet. There's a crown of 12 stars on her head. Also, she's pregnant, full term, actually, and she's literally crying out in pain because she's about to give birth. And then opposite her, he says a second sign appeared. a great red dragon with seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns on each of its heads with a sweep of its tail. The dragon will then drag a third of the stars out of the sky and then fling them down to earth.

Starting point is 01:01:57 And then the dragon crouches down in front of the woman waiting so that the second her baby is born, the dragon can devour the child. And then the child is born. It's a son. And immediately he's snatched up. Now the story doesn't say how, just that he's taken straight to God. into God's throne and is safe. And then the book says that the child will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And then the woman flees into the wilderness into a place that God prepared for her to take

Starting point is 01:02:27 care of her for 1,260 days. And then a war breaks out. So then the Archangel Michael, we all know and love, the Archangel Michael, right? One of my favorite prayers, by the way, is the prayer to the Archangel Michael. Why is that? It's just, it feels just, it's fire, dude. It's like, you know, protect us from like the evils of demons and stuff. I can't recite it off the top of my head.

Starting point is 01:02:51 If you got me going, I could get it pretty good. We'll do it at the end when we do a wrap-up, but it's just fire. The Archangel Michael and his angels versus the dragon and all his angels. Now, it's interesting because it does say angels, by the way. It doesn't say demons. It says Michael, his angels, the dragon, which is a very evil figure, and his angels. And, of course, the dragon, lose. It gets thrown down, hurled out of heaven down to earth, and John does specifically tell us who the dragon is.

Starting point is 01:03:19 It says, that ancient serpent called the devil or Satan who leads the whole world astray. Now, you probably already could draw the context here, like, okay, this ferocious, terrifying dragon thing is Satan incarnate? And the text pretty explicitly lays it out. So that one we don't have to wonder about as much because the text basically tells us everything. And now at this point, you're like, okay, the war is done. But it is not. Because the dragon, since he lost in heaven, comes down to earth and is furious, and he goes to find the child's mother, that same woman who went into hiding. Now, the text says she was given wings like an eagle so that she could fly to a hidden spot where God said she would

Starting point is 01:04:00 be protected for a while. But then from the serpent's mouth, he spit out enough water to make an entire river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away, but it doesn't work. Because the earth itself steps in to help the woman and it swallows the river whole. So now, this dragon gets hurled out of heaven, splashed on earth, and is trying to find the woman that birth this child that God has now taken to the throne. And the dragon is really mad because, you know, he's losing. He's taking like a couple of ls in a row. So what he does instead is go off to wage war against the rest of her offspring. those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus. So that tells us that there is a new war that is underway and that the dragon is gearing up

Starting point is 01:04:50 to call in a bunch of reinforcements. So he stands on the shore of the sea and then John sees this. Basically, John sees everything like unfold with this war, a beast rising up out of the water. It had 10 horns, seven heads, and then 10 crowns on the horns. and a different blasphemous name is written on each of the heads. And John describes it like this nightmare menagerie of all these different animals. It's like a leopard, but it's got like the feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion, and it looks like there's like a wound on one of the heads, but like it's healed up and like a James Bond villain or something.

Starting point is 01:05:29 And then there's like a bunch of other authorities that the beast is then given. And the worst part is the dragon gave this beast its own power, and its own throne and like a bunch of authority and like power on earth. In fact, people start worshipping the dragon and the beast because of how powerful it is. So much so that the text actually says verbatim, all inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast all whose names have not been written in the Lamb's Book of Life. But that's not it.

Starting point is 01:06:00 All of a sudden, there's a second beast. This one comes up out of the earth. And it's got two horns like a lamb, so it looks kind of gentle. it looks harmless, and when it speaks, it speaks like a dragon. And its whole job is to point at the first beast and get people to worship it. Basically, it's like the manager, like the PR guy for the Beast of the Sea. And then the text backs it up with signs. It makes fire come down from heaven in front of everybody.

Starting point is 01:06:23 It sets up an image of the first beast. And then in a very unsettling sort of twist, it's given power to breathe life into the image. Like it can make statues talk, and the talking statues order that anyone who doesn't worship this beast should be killed. And then the second beast does something super crazy. It forces everybody to get a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads. Whether you're great or you're just like a regular guy or like a peasant or you're rich or poor,

Starting point is 01:06:54 you're free or enslaved, everyone has to get it. And you can't buy or sell anything without this mark. And then the text says that the mark is the name of the beast. and or the number of its name. And then comes perhaps the most infamous line in the entire book, and I'll read it directly. It says, let the person who has understanding calculate the number of the beast,

Starting point is 01:07:21 for it is the number of a man. That number is 666. So yeah, that's where 666 comes from. A ton of stuff to unpack there. Obviously, that is for a future episode where we're going to go through every single, like, basically like section like every different you know revelation of these you know like uh triplets and explain like all the different interpretations of it but that's for you know another time now if you

Starting point is 01:07:48 never actually heard this before this is the context for like the mark of the beast on the right hand or the forehead and the story goes on because the dragon has waged war on the children of god and he's got two beasts who the world is worshipping they're super powerful and they basically forced their mark onto every person. But the lamb is about to come back and the final sequence of the seven is about to begin. Now, at this point in the story, it cuts back to the lamb, standing on Mount Zion with those 144,000, the ones who had the seal of the father written on their forehead. And then John hears a sound that he describes as like a roar of rushing water and a crack of thunder and then harps being played. And the 144,000 were singing a new song.

Starting point is 01:08:33 that only they could sing because these are those who did not defile themselves with woman for they remained virgins they followed the lamb wherever he goes and then three angels fly overhead one after another making announcements the first one proclaims an eternal gospel one cries out fallen fallen is babylon the great and the third warns against basically worshiping this beast now the third angel's message is the scariest. He says that those who worship the beast will get the fury of God. And quote, they will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.

Starting point is 01:09:26 I mean, that's like pretty explicit, right? Like super hardcore. Like, hey, if you, you know, worship this beast or, you know, you've received the mark of its name, you will be tortured with burning sulfur forever and ever. And then, well, it says burning sulfur forever, and then the smoke will rise forever and ever. So maybe you're only tortured for a little bit. I don't know. Then John heard a voice from heaven, and it tells him to write this message down. Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.

Starting point is 01:09:59 and then there are these two like creepy kind of harvest scenes so in the first john sees someone quote like a son of man sitting in a white cloud with a golden crown and a sharp sickle but if you don't know what a sickle is basically like a curved thing it's like what the grim reaper has and use it to you know like you know like a reap or like harvest wheat and stuff and apparently he's swinging the sickle over the earth to reap it and in the second another angel with a sickle, gathers the grapes of the earth and throws them into the greatest wine press of the wrath of God. And the wine press then gets trampled and then blood flows out of it. John says that there is so much blood. It's as high as...

Starting point is 01:10:46 Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. A horse's bridle for 180 miles. And then comes the third and final set of seven.

Starting point is 01:11:24 John writes down what he saw in heaven, seven angels with the seven last plagues. and after these ones it says God's wrath will be complete. This is finally the end of these escalating disasters. There was what looked like a sea of glass that was glowing with fire and standing next to the sea were all the people who hadn't worshipped the beast who had been victorious over the number of its name and God then gives them harps and they are all singing. And after that, John saw the temple in heaven basically, gets opened. And out came those seven angels with seven plagues. One of those flying creature things

Starting point is 01:12:05 I talked about earlier, well, they give each of them a golden bowl filled with literally God's wrath, like in the bull. And the temple is now full of smoke and no one can go into the temple until the seven plagues were completed. Next, a loud voice says to pour out the seven bulls over the earth. The first bull brought painful, ugly, festering sores on everyone who had the mark of the beast. The second bull got poured into the sea, and it turned the entire sea into blood and killed everything that lived in the sea. The third bowl turned rivers and springs of water into blood. The fourth bowl got poured out onto the sun. And then suddenly the sun had permission to scorch people with fire, so people were being burned left and right, and still they cursed God's name rather than

Starting point is 01:12:55 turning around and repenting. The fifth bull covered the throne of the beast and made his whole kingdom completely dark. Like the lights just switched off. The text literally says people nod their tongues in agony, but yet they still refuse to repent and kneel towards God. The sixth angel poured out the bull into the river Euphrates, and it made the entire river dry up to prepare for kings coming from the east. Like the dried up river was like a road for them to enter.

Starting point is 01:13:25 her in or something. And then John actually saw a few other weird things. Like he saw three impure spirits that he said look like frogs. They came out of the mouth of the dragon and then another one came out of like the beast that I described coming from like the sea. And then the other one out of the

Starting point is 01:13:41 mouth of the false prophet. Apparently in the text says it pretty explicitly, they are demonic spirits that perform signs. Which again, very strange and really difficult to even understand. Now these little like demon frogs go all over the world and they gather up the kings and prepare for a big battle that

Starting point is 01:14:00 they're going to have against God. And they gather them up at a very special place. The place is Armageddon. Now, we have to pause on this word Armageddon because people use it in everyday parlance where they're kind of describing like the final battle of the apocalypse. It's like, you know, total war. It's the end of everything. But in the actual text, it is like an actual place. It's describing a location, and it most likely refers to Magido. This is a real ancient battlefield hill up in, like, now, like modern day northern Israel, a spot where like a lot of historical battles got fought over different centuries, specifically in this time. And here's the part that surprises a lot of people. Revelation names Armageddon as the gathering spot. And then it does not

Starting point is 01:14:50 give you like a giant hours long epic you know marvel style like fight sequence that you're expecting the kings assemble and then the scene kind of just moves on so like the hollywood version of like armageddon the epic war the final battle the showdown between good and evil it's not really how the book describes it it just sort of proceeds and then the seventh bowl gets poured out into the air. And then suddenly a loud voice from the throne, it says, it is done. And then of course, there's lightning, thunder, and the greatest earthquake in human history so big that the great city split into three parts. Other cities just completely collapse. Islands and mountains are just basically vanish off the face of the earth. And a hundred pound hailstone fell from the sky

Starting point is 01:15:42 and just crushes people. And then there's something important in this section. The book, actually mentions a single target that God pours out his wrath on, and it is a city called Babylon. And Revelation, like the text itself takes a turn at this point, talking about the fall of Babylon the Great. And Babylon is sort of pictured as a woman and like a very specific kind of woman. So here's how the text sort of goes on. One of the seven angels comes out to John and says, come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute who sits by many waters. With her, the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries. That is Babylon. John gets carried away, like,

Starting point is 01:16:33 in the spirit, that kind of like a scene transfer thing, and then gets basically teleported into the wilderness where he sees the woman. She's dressed in purple and scarlet. and, you know, dripping in like gold jewels and pearls. And it says that she's sitting on a scarlet beast that has seven heads and ten horns. And she's holding this golden cup filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. And she's drunk on the blood of God's people. And she has a name written on her forehead. But the text says that it was a mystery.

Starting point is 01:17:08 But it also kind of tells us what it says. It says literally Babylon the Great. the mother of prostitutes and the abomination of earth. The angel explains the woman to John, and he says that the beast once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the abyss and go to its destruction. So again, it's not super clear. Like, it kind of gives you an idea of, like, who this woman is

Starting point is 01:17:37 and, like, how it connects to, like, the city of Babylon, but, like, it doesn't really explicitly lay it all out. And then it moves on. and says, the inhabitants of the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world, will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, is now not, and yet will come. So yeah, that's kind of what John was probably meaning when he was like, look, I read the text, but I don't really get it. It's a mystery. And then the angel says that the seven heads of the beast are seven hills. There are seven kings. Five of the kings have fallen. One currently

Starting point is 01:18:15 is, like in power, and the last one has yet to come. The beast apparently is like an eighth king who belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. The ten horns are ten kings who have not gotten a kingdom, but for one hour only, they will get authority alongside the beast. Now, the waters represent tons of people and nations and languages and the beast in its ten horns will hate the prostitute and bring her to ruin and leave her naked and then we'll eat her flesh and burn her with fire like it literally says quote for god has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority until god's words are fulfilled dang i mean that's

Starting point is 01:19:08 it's you start reading and you're like this is a lot like that you can see why they don't really go through this in like a ton of detail when you're doing like sunday school with your kids this this part kind of gets glanced over a little bit so now at this point in the story the great city of babylon has fallen and when it falls the reaction splits in two so down on earth the kings and the merchants and the sea captains everyone who got rich off of babylon they mourn they stand at a distance watching the smoke go up they cry over like all of their goods like all their cargo that no one's going to buy anymore so like all the gold and the silver and the silk and spices and in the last item on the list john says human beings sold as slaves and they weep over the fact that

Starting point is 01:19:57 babylon is now gone like all the luxury in the splendor and all their material wealth is just seized basically. And an angel picks up a boulder the size of a large millstone and chucks it into the sea, along with some final curses about Babylon saying things like how she's been thrown down and how no worker will be found in her again, no music, no light. She can't harm the merchants or lead people stray anymore and basically just like cursing her. And it's kind of like one last like, hey, screw you Babylon, everything you did, you destroyed humanity. And this city is like, you know, destitute and decrepit, and this millstone gets thrown into the water. But up in heaven, there's a roar. People are shouting, hallelujah, celebration, everyone's party and

Starting point is 01:20:44 having a great time, they're so stoked. And then a voice calls out to God's people, come out of her, my people. Get out before she falls. Like, they are completely celebrating the demise of Babylon. And out of that celebration, the tone shifts yet again. towards a wedding. Yeah, the marriage of the lamb. And the lamb's bride has made herself ready and she's dressed in fine linen, bright and clean. And the text actually tells us that the fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God's holy people. That's like a direct line. The righteous acts of God's holy people. And then suddenly there's a white horse standing in front of John. And it has a rider. And the name of the person on the horse is

Starting point is 01:21:33 faithful and true. And he comes out to now wage a just war. His eyes are described like a flame of fire. There are many crowns on his head. And he's got a robe. And here's a very important detail. The robe is dipped in blood before the battle even starts. And a sword comes out of his mouth. The name written on him is the word of God. And the armies of heaven follow him. All of them also riding on these beautiful white horses and all dressed in white lindon. And the beast and the false prophet, that second beast, they get captured and thrown alive into a lake of fire that burns with sulfur. And the battle itself, again, in this section, it doesn't really go into any explicit detail. It's pretty brief.

Starting point is 01:22:18 John doesn't really belabor the battle part. The rider basically just comes out, the enemies fall, and the birds are called to feast, and then it moves on. So here's a little of what the text literally says, quote, but the beast was captured. and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs, he had diluted those who had received the mark of the beast and worshipped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. So now we have the beast, the false prophet.

Starting point is 01:22:52 They're taken care of, but there's still one more enemy, the dragon. And the strangest most argued about thousand years in all of scripture. And again, I'm not going to explain every different. interpretation of this millennium, but I'll kind of give the context of where it comes from. So the text says an angel comes down from heaven holding a key. This is the key to the abyss and a great chain. And he takes the dragon. The book kind of reminds us one more time that it's an ancient serpent and that this ancient serpent is the devil. Like it makes it very clear that this is Satan. And it binds up this dragon serpent and throws him into the abyss and shuts it.

Starting point is 01:23:33 and it seals over him. And he's locked up for a thousand years so that he can't deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years are up. Now, that thousand years, you'll hear it called the millennium. There is an entire theological undergirding about the millennium.

Starting point is 01:23:52 And there are multiple different ways that the church has interpreted this as well as different Christian communities up until this very moment. And it's actually pretty controversial depending on who you're talking to, And again, we will do an entire episode on what that millennium means, but we'll get into that at a different point.

Starting point is 01:24:09 Anyway, John sees a bunch of thrones and people sitting on them who are given authority to judge, people who had been executed for their testimony, who had now come to life and to reign with Christ for those thousands years. And the text calls this the first resurrection. And what happens is after a thousand years, the dragon gets let loose. and he goes straight back to what the dragon always does, he goes out and deceives the nations, the ones that the text calls Gog and Magog,

Starting point is 01:24:41 and rounds them up for battle. There's so many of them, John says, that they are like the sand of the sea, and they surround the camp of the saints, the beloved city, and it's over, like, almost before it even starts. Fire comes down from heaven and consumes them, and the dragon, like the devil, Satan incarnate,

Starting point is 01:25:01 is thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur to join the beast and the false prophet, but this time for good. The dragon, Satan is completely defeated. And then comes one of the most like solemn scenes in the entire Bible, not only Revelation, but like the whole, all the books. John sees a great white throne. And the one seated on it looks so overwhelming that John says the earth and the sky. flee from his presence. They run, and there's no place left for them to go, and the dead,

Starting point is 01:25:36 all of them, great and small, stand before the throne. And then the books are opened. What books do you ask? I'm glad. The books of judgment. And then one more book is opened, a specific one, the book of life. And the sea gives up its dead and like death as a concept itself. And Hades, like the underworld, the grave. They also give up their dead. Everyone is there, every soul that has ever existed, and they are judged. The text says, according to what they had done by what's written in the books. And then this is a crazy moment. Death and Hades themselves get then thrown into the lake of fire. Death dies. Like the last enemy in this whole thing is not actually Satan. It is death itself, and death is officially conquered. And then John adds, this, the lake of fire, is the second.

Starting point is 01:26:28 death. The text says anyone whose name is not found written in the book of life is also thrown into the lake of fire. So after all this, the seals, the trumpets, the bowls, beasts, dragons, the, you know, throne, the lake of fire. After all that judgment and fire and terror, the book kind of turns a corner and becomes something super gentle and soft. John says, then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. Because the first heaven and the first earth, the one that we know, they're gone. And he adds, the sea was no more. Now, the sea, like, as a concept, means something different in this context that would have made sense to ancient audiences, broadly speaking. It doesn't literally mean that there's, like, no water in the new heaven or the new earth.

Starting point is 01:27:20 But, again, that's an interpretation that I'll save for another time. It's just an interesting thing to note. John sees a city coming down out of heaven from God. The holy city, new Jerusalem is descending out of heaven. And the text says it's prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And a loud voice from the throne makes an announcement. And honestly, after everything that you and I have been through for like the last hour and a half, the next section here has such a crazy different feel to it.

Starting point is 01:27:49 And you'll notice it even as I'm just reading. Again, this is word for word. See, the home of God is. among mortals. He will dwell with them. They will be his peoples and God himself will be with them. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more. Mourning and crying and pain will be no more. For the first things have passed away. And then the one on the throne says, see, I am making all things new. And then he says it again, I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. the exact phrase from all the way back in chapter one that starts this entire thing this is where

Starting point is 01:28:27 the book closes that loop and then an angel carries john again in the spirit like that like flash frame teleportation that's like this is the final time up to a great high mountain to show him the city up close and john describes it in like obsessive loving detail the city glows with the glory of God, like a precious jewel. Again, he says like jasper, clear as crystal. And it's got a great high wall with like 12 gates. And at those 12 gates, there are 12 angels. And the names of the 12 tribes of Israel are written on them. Three gates to the east, three of the north, three of the south, and three of the west. I did not point in any of the right directions right there, my bad. But you got what I'm saying. Three gates in every direction. And the wall has 12 foundations. And on them

Starting point is 01:29:17 are written the names of the 12 apostles. And the angels got this golden measuring rod, basically, and he measures the city right in front of John. And here's the crazy part. The city is a perfect cube. Its length and its width and its height, it's all equal. 12,000 stadia each.

Starting point is 01:29:40 That's something like 1,400 miles. Stadia is just like a unit of measurement. So it roughly translates to 1,400 miles in every direction. The city is as tall as it is wide as it is long. And then he lists the foundation stones. And once again, it's basically like a fine jewelry box. And it's maybe a metaphor. Maybe it's literally what he saw.

Starting point is 01:30:01 But he describes Jasper, Sapphire, a gate, emerald, onyx, Carnelian, Chrysolite, Beryl, Topaz, Chrisapraise, Jacinth, and Amethyst. And the 12 gates, well, each one is a single giant pearl. And the main street of the city is pure gold. But gold that's so pure, it's like basically transparent. It's gold that's like as clear as glass. But the detail that matters the most is the thing that isn't there.

Starting point is 01:30:36 Like John looks for a temple. He's like, okay, where's like the holy center? where's like the worship place like every ancient city that john had ever been and has a temple and a temple was like the whole point it's like the one place you go to to be close to god but in this new jerusalem there is no temple and john tells us exactly why because god himself and the lamb are the temple there's no holy room that you have to go to to interact with god because god is just there like out in the open like living um amongst everybody in perfect communion with all of his peoples.

Starting point is 01:31:14 There's no sun, there's no moon, not because it's dark, but because the glory of God is all the light that's needed and the lamb is the lamp. There's so much light coming from them that there's no need for a sun. And the gates of the city are never shut because there is no, there's no darkness, there's no night to shut them against. And then the last image. It's not a throne. It's not fire or any type of beast or creature. It's a garden. There's a river. Quote, in the text, the river of the water of life is bright as crystal flowing right down the middle of the city's main street, right out from the throne of God and the lamb. And on both sides of the river, there's the tree of life. It bears 12 kinds of fruit and a fresh crop every month. And its leaves, the text says, are for the healing of the nations.

Starting point is 01:32:08 there's no more curse no more knight and god's servants will see god's face and his name will be on their foreheads and then the book sort of ends the way that it started like i said before like a letter and the angel tells john these words are trustworthy and true and then twice john is so overwhelmed that he falls down to worship the angel and both times the angel stops him and says hey don't do that What are you doing? I'm a fellow servant. I'm just here to help you worship God. Like, don't worship me.

Starting point is 01:32:42 Worship God. And then John's like, you're right, you're right, right, right. Falls down again, tries to worship the angel. He's like, dude, get up. Why are you doing this? Just worship God. You don't have to do the whole, I'm not God. And then John is told not to seal up the words of this book and to keep this open because the

Starting point is 01:32:59 time is near. And the final lines are basically a promise, repeated, over and over. It says, see, I am coming soon. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer.

Starting point is 01:33:35 register today at pmcf walk.ca. And it continues, my reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright morning star. And to this promise, there is an answer. An open invitation to anyone who's thirsty, come, take the water of life as a free gift. Then there's one last morning against adding to or taking away from the words of this specific book.

Starting point is 01:34:16 Literally it says, hey, no edits, no additions, no subtractions, no messing with what John wrote down and what John said and what he saw. And then it ends with John saying, amen. come Lord Jesus, the grace of the Lord Jesus, be with God's people, amen. And that is the last sentence of the entire Bible. So, there it is. That is all of the details in chronological order as it is written down by John of Patmos, as he describes this revelation was revealed to him. So think about where we start, right?

Starting point is 01:34:56 six-headed monsters, a river of blood, locus with human faces. And then the book ends at this place with a river of clear water and a tree that heals whole nations and every tear is wiped away and death is defeated. Not every last verse. You should honestly go read the whole thing for yourself. And it's actually shorter than you think. I mean, this episode we go into a lot of details. But you could probably read it in a couple hours maybe.

Starting point is 01:35:23 But we go through the shape of it. like the vibe and go through all the really important details from beginning to end, alpha, omega, pun intended. And here's kind of the feeling that I have, right? Like we started this by pointing out a strange fact that the most feared book in Western history, the one that we, you know, stripped for monsters and the Mark of the Beast and the end of the world, like merch and like Armageddon and all this stuff. It actually ends in a garden with tranquility and peace with a riftly.

Starting point is 01:35:55 and a tree that heals and perfect light with no more darkness and no more pain or death or tears. And I think the reason that that's surprising to me is, I mean, maybe it says more about me than it does the book. Because for thousands of years, people have come to Revelation trying to like hunt for a code or try to find like when it's going to happen, like a key. What is like, you know, like the, what is the Rosetta Stone for understanding of the end of the world? Like, who's the beast? Who I need to watch out for? Like, what is the mark of the beast? What's the number? or when's it going to happen? And when you read it that way as like a puzzle that needs to be cracked, and then you spend the entire time like kind of, you know, focused on the evil and you

Starting point is 01:36:37 kind of miss the beauty. You sort of fixate on like the dragons and Satan and you kind of miss the river. But the word, the very first word, the one who the whole book is named after, it's never destruction. It is apocalypse. It is the unveiling. It's pulling back the curtain to show you something that was already there the whole time. And the thing that actually, I don't know, that I kind of took away from this, we deliberately did not tell you what any of this means. Because frankly, I don't know if any person on earth truly knows what all of this means. So I didn't attempt that. And I didn't really, I didn't try to name the beast. I didn't try to decode the number. And many people have done this, both in, you know, antiquity and even today. And I didn't try to put like a date on the thousand years and

Starting point is 01:37:22 like when that'll happen and you know maybe the whole time it felt like you know that's what you were hoping for but we'll get into all that another time but there is something worth noticing in the feeling of like wanting to know like what does it all mean because that itch like yeah like just tell me like what is it that's the exact thing that has driven 20 centuries of people to you know be super certain about the end of the world and then inevitably be wrong like every generation was so sure that they cracked it. Every different, you know, priest or pastor or like, you know, religious, you know, like individual, a holy man. They, they were like, I figured it out. I understand Revelation. I know what it means. And then almost always they're proven wrong. So maybe before we even try to get into

Starting point is 01:38:09 what it means, the more humble way to kind of approach this is to just actually try to absorb it. Basically what we did today, to try to like understand the context and just the order, like looking at the dragon, the lamb, the number, the city of Babylon falling apart, the river and the garden and the tree. And to be honest about what's just in there and what we can fully know based off John's description and what we can't and what's ultimately speculation from the church. Because maybe the main issue with how so many people interpret this text is that they're so busy hunting for the ending and for the ending and for all the secret mysteries that they never really just actually look at the book. itself. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a brief or maybe not so brief, summary of the entirety

Starting point is 01:38:59 of the book of Revelation. I mean, it is a fascinating text, truly. It is maybe like my favorite text in the entirety of the Bible because it is just so rich with like metaphor and secrecy, but then also ends with like a really beautiful moment where it's like, hey, everything's good. And the end of times, there is peace. And if your name is in the name is in the book, the book of life, life is good. And that there's, it seems like many chances to repent and go to God. It's not like some mystery where it's like, I hope I'm on the right path. It seems like pretty clear. There's going to be a lot of terrible shit that happens. And ideally at the end of it, you will have repented. And my hope is that by the end, all people will repent. I, that's,

Starting point is 01:39:44 I don't know why I want, I mean, I know why I want that. I don't know where that comes from. But I'm like, there will be enough calamity. Assuming that this plays out in some type of actual way, and it's not just like purely metaphorical, if there's some type of actuality to this and like a fundamental truth underneath it, I think most people will repent. The vast majority.

Starting point is 01:40:03 That's my hope. That's all I can really hope for. But truly a fascinating text. And I'm very excited to actually like do the diligence and the research of like going through every different interpretation of every different section. Because I mean, people have written entire books on just like the interpretation of the dragon, right?

Starting point is 01:40:20 Like the serpent, ancient serpent thing. So like there's so much that can go into this. So if you enjoy this episode, please let me know. I will do an entire series breaking down every single metaphor, every different Christian interpretation of every different section. It might be like five episodes long. But if you enjoyed this, please let me know and we'll make it an entire month. Maybe we even dropped like two a week to like really get through all of it

Starting point is 01:40:43 and go through the entire complexity and density of what this text has to offer. But for now, I mean, it kind of makes me a small, like, read my Bible and pray. I'm just like, dude, I got to get back in the gym. You know what I'm saying? I got to hang with God. I mean...

Starting point is 01:40:56 Oh, what is this? You want to give the people a little Archangel Michael? Of course, dude. The short prayer for the Archangel Michael. I mean, it is fire, dude. St. Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness

Starting point is 01:41:08 and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, O prince of the heavenly, by the power of God thrust into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. That's just bars. Amen. I mean, that's just fire.

Starting point is 01:41:27 Who thrust into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl the world seeking the ruin of souls. These demons be prowling, bro. They are out here prowling. That's what they do. They're trying to ruin your soul. and fortunately for you, the archangel Michael can help you out. That's all safe for that. Creast, is anything you learned from this?

Starting point is 01:41:48 I just thought it was fire that death died. Sick, right? That's crazy. It's awesome. It's like, dude, death is the final beast. It's like, hey, we're going to get rid of Satan. And then the final one is death itself. Also, I love the shout out to, and my interpretation, again, we'll get more into the details of this.

Starting point is 01:42:05 But the Blessed Mother, the Virgin Mary herself, giving birth to a son that the demon tries to, or the dragon, tries to devour and then, you know, God has a special place in heaven for her. Right? Pretty cool. With like a beautiful crown, the moon at her feet. What does that look like, Christos? Bang. Our lady of Guadalupe, what is she standing on? Crescent moon. Crescent moon, right? It's just what I was about to say. That's what I'm saying, dude, it's all right there. It's all right there. Anyway, what do you guys think? If you guys are biblical scholars, if you went to seminary or maybe you're a priest or something, if there's anything I missed, please drop a comment. Any details

Starting point is 01:42:41 that you feel like maybe I overlooked or maybe some translation stuff that I may be missed? Because I will take all of these comments and I will apply them into the later episodes that we do in this series explaining all of the interpretations of this text. So if there's anything you want to see specifically mentioned, by all means, drop a comment. I will

Starting point is 01:42:57 shout out the username or the channel that came from as direction in that. You can put it on YouTube, Spotify. Whatever you're listening on or watching right now, you can just comment and I will see it. Also, a couple other, you know, camp announcements, let me say, if you were interested in history and you like to break down all the craziest things that have ever happened, great news, we have history camp. If you like to go through mysteries, conspiracies, the occult, all sorts of other wacky crazy things, specifically with interviews with people way smarter than me that have like, I'm just pulling on, you know, research that I find online. These people are the ones actually doing and like inventing the research.

Starting point is 01:43:30 So you can check out those episodes at the main channel, Camp Gagnon, as it has said in my mother nation. of Quebec City. And furthermore, if you just like to deal with the, you know, the spiritual and matters of the divine, well, great news. You're in the right place here at Religion Camp. We drop these episodes every single Sunday. So make sure you subscribe and just keep the comments civil. If you can, I would love to know what your thoughts are. Please write a comment everywhere. If you're not of any type of Christian affiliation, if you're Muslim or Hindu or Jewish or some other type of thing, I would love to know what you think of this. Like how does this compare with your end time story. What does your eschatology have to say about the end of the world? And does this

Starting point is 01:44:11 map on there? Is it completely incongruent? I would love to know your thoughts. Any thoughts are welcome. And if they're productive, they will be included in later episodes in the series. Thank you all so much. Go to church today. Crisis King. God bless you all. And I will see you in the future. Peace be with you. Hey, guys. If you love conspiracies and hypothetical history, well, I want to invite you to check out Signal 33. This is a. companion pod to our podcast here at camp. It's made and edited by the same team that runs all of our shows, and I choose the topics every single week. So check it out, subscribe, and start the dialogue in the comment section. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why

Starting point is 01:44:54 every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21, kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca.

Camp Gagnon - The FINAL Days on Earth Explained

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