Camp Gagnon - The Mystery Religion Hidden in Iran's Mountains

Episode Date: March 8, 2026

Today we dive into the history of The Kurds. We explore their origins and examine their belief system while also looking into various stories. Welcome to Religion Camp! 🏕️Shoutout to our sponsors...: Shoutout to our sponsors: Ultra and Chubbies Gett 15% OFF For New Customers With Code “CAMP” Who You Visit http://takeultra.comGet 20% OFF With Code ‘CAMP’ When You Visit http://chubbiesshorts.com/CAMP✝️☪️✡️🕉️☦️ Religion Camp Merch: https://camp-rd.com🎟️ 🎫 Comedy Tour Tickets Here: https://markgagnonlive.com🏕️ Get Today In History Email Here (Free): https://www.dailytodayinhistory.comTimestamps:0:00 Preface: Mark’s Not Kurdish2:12 Origin of The Kurds + Kurdish Mountains5:20 Yazidism Belief + Peacock Angel7:37 Pilgrimage to Lalish9:44 Yarsanism Belief12:20 Islamic Sufism15:45 Saladin Was Kurdish16:57 Kurdish Persecution22:44 Conversion to Zoroastrianism25:52 Peace Be With You#podcast #religion #history #peace #knowledge #educational #information

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 They have been called devil worshippers. They've been accused of heresy. They've had fatwas issued against them for centuries, religious edicts declaring them apostates worthy of death. And yet, Kurdish communities have kept their religious traditions alive. Traditions that reach back thousands of years in Iranian history. They've preserved ideas and motifs with roots that are even pre-Islamic. They've maintained faith and have survived for centuries in the mountains when empires tried
Starting point is 00:00:25 time and time again to erase them. The Kurds are the largest ethnic group on. earth without a country. 40 million people spread across four different countries, but what most people don't know is that the Kurdish story isn't just political. It is deeply, profoundly religious. From the peacock angel to the Sufi sheikhs, the sacred valley of Lalish, to the philosophical mysticism of the Yarsanis, the Kurds have one of the most fascinating, complex, and misunderstood
Starting point is 00:00:53 religious traditions in the entire world. And today, we are exploring the spiritual world of Kurdistan, the faith that evolved. over centuries in the mountains, the persecution that nearly destroyed them, and the enduring question, how do you keep your faith alive when everyone around you wants you dead for? Well, if you are interested in geopolitics and matters of the divine, well, this is the episode for you. So, sit back, relax, and welcome to religion camp. What's up, dude?
Starting point is 00:01:26 Welcome back to camp. My name is Mark Gagnon, and thank you for joining me in my tent, where every single week we explore the most interesting, fascinating, and controversial stories from around the world from all time forever. This is religious camp. This is the place where I try to understand what everyone believes. I've said it time and time again. I don't think you can understand a people without understanding the God that they worship.
Starting point is 00:01:47 And if you truly want to connect with your fellow humans, you've got to at least know the holy books that they're reading. All right. That is kind of my M.O. And I'm just trying to figure out what does everyone think is going on. All right? And ultimately, where does everyone think we're going? All right?
Starting point is 00:02:01 This is basically my way to amalgamate all the good teachings from every religious tradition from around the world. them to my life so I can be a better human. Now, the show is not possible without you. Yeah, you watching right now, listening in your AirPods, driving your car. This is my thank you to you truly for clicking this video, for watching the pod, for listening to the link, whatever, however you got here, I just want to say thanks, because every time you engage with the content, you make my dreams possible.
Starting point is 00:02:27 You keep the lights on, and ultimately you keep the fire burning here at the campsite. Now, I also want to thank Christos Papadopados. Christos, what do you know about the Kurds? Not much. All right. good because I'm going to explain everything word for word bar for bar okay I'm going to put you on game about who the Kurds are what happened to them why they're why everyone hates them and uh yeah kind of what they believe also David's here anyway so all right let's just jump in okay I just
Starting point is 00:02:53 want to say a few things up top first off I'm not Kurdish I don't know if you guys knew that from looking at me I don't uh I don't like embody like the Kurdish archetype so if I mispronounce anything or if I get anything wrong here, just my bad. All right, I'm doing my best. Okay, I'm really, I'm trying. All right. So if you have any adjustments, if there's anything I missed completely, if there's anything that I got wrong or anything of that nature, please, by all means, drop a comment, let me know. Okay, I'm not immune to the truth. If anything, that's the whole reason I do this show. I want to know the reality. Furthermore, if I mispronounce stuff, my bad, okay. I don't speak Arabic or Kurdish or the litany of different things that these words are, are, are, are, are, are, presented him. So, forget me. So to understand the Kurdish people, you got to understand the Kurdish religion. And to understand the religion, you need to understand Kurdish geography. So traditionally speaking, the Kurdish homeland, the mountainous region that they call Kurdistan stretches across southeastern Turkey, northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, and northern Syria. And it's this rugged landscape of, you know, snowy mountains and valleys and plateaus that are all
Starting point is 00:04:05 across, you know, this, like, very dynamic part of the Middle East. Many scholars and Kurdish nationalists link the Kurds to the ancient Meads, the Iranian people who helped topple the Assyrian Empire in 612 BC, though this connection is obviously debated today. The Meads built an empire that stretched from modernity Turkey to Afghanistan before being absorbed into the Persian Empire under Cyrus the Great. Here's what matters for our story. Ancient peoples in this region practiced pre-Zorastrian Iranians.
Starting point is 00:04:35 religions. They worshipped like elemental forces. So fire, water, earth, air, airbender shit, all right? They believed in angels and divine emanations. They practiced forms of sun worship. And, you know, they were almost animistic. They saw the natural world as sacred. And when Zoroastrianism spread through the Persian Empire, Kurdish regions absorbed some of these teachings as well. So this cosmic battle between good and evil, the importance of, you know, fire is like this, you know, purifying sacred symbol, the belief in divine beings who mediate between God and, you know, us humans. But here's what makes the Kurds unique. In the remote mountain villages of Kurdistan, elements of those ancient Iranian beliefs persisted, merging and mixing with later Islamic
Starting point is 00:05:19 and Sufi influence, and ultimately contributed to new distinct religious traditions found nowhere else on earth, except, of course, in the mountains of Kurdistan. So the Kurdish people have this deep spiritual connection to these mountains. to this specific place that they call home because it is built almost on this animism, right? We've done an episode on Shinto, and ultimately it is this animistic religion or philosophy that these different geographical features within Japan
Starting point is 00:05:48 have a spiritual essence. So it's almost intrinsic to the Japanese people and to the islands of Japan that Shinto exists there. And one cannot really exist without the other because it is fundamental. So Mount Fuji is only, in Japan, and therefore, Shinto can only really exist in Japan. This is a bit of an oversimplification, but you can understand how the Kurds feel about
Starting point is 00:06:11 this region. There's actually an old Kurdish proverb that captures it kind of perfectly. Kurds have no friends but the mountains. And that saying isn't just a reference to the political strife that they have endured. It's also representative of their survival strategy in a way. Whenever a larger power has tried to convert them by force, the Kurds retreated higher into the mountains and they regrouped and they waited and they've outlasted everyone. I mean, the Mongols, the Arabs and, you know, they kept core elements of their older beliefs alive within
Starting point is 00:06:43 new religious forms. Of all the Kurdish religious traditions that have evolved over the centuries, none have suffered more or been more misunderstood than Yazidism. The Yazids are a Kurdish-speaking community whose religion developed through a complicated historical process. It combines elements of pre-Islamic Kurdish belief and ancient Iranian religions and the teachings of Sheikh Adi Ibn Musafir, a 12th century Sufi mystic who settled in the valley of Lalish, which is now northern Iraq. Now, Yazidis are monotheistic. They believe in one god, a being whom they call Khoide. And they believe that this being created the world and entrusted it to the care of seven holy beings, often called the seven angels. These angels emanated from gods,
Starting point is 00:07:31 and light before the creation of the earth. The leader of these seven angels is Tawusi Malek, the peacock angel. And then there's a tragedy. For centuries, Muslims and Christians have falsely associated the peacock angel with Satan. The Yazidis were labeled devil worshippers, a misconception that has incited centuries of violent religious persecution. And let me be clear, okay, this characterization is not just offensive to Yazidis, but it's also just technically wrong. Yazidis believe Tawusi Melek is not a source of evil or
Starting point is 00:08:04 wickedness. He is the leader of the archangels, not a fallen angel. The Yazidis considered themselves Melete Tuusi Melek, the nation of the peacock angel. And they venerate him as God's greatest servant, a being who has entrusted who's been entrusted by
Starting point is 00:08:20 God with the care of the world. But of course, the devil worshiper, slander basically stuck around. And it's now used to justify atrocity after atrocity. So the Yazidis have their own word for these massacres, Fremans, and they've been keeping count for centuries. By Yazidi reckoning, the ISIS genocide of 2014, that was the 74th Fremont, the 74th campaign of extermination against the Yazidis and, you know, the Kurds at large. And they remember it in their collective history. Seventy four campaigns of
Starting point is 00:08:54 violence driven heavily by religious hatred. And that's a long side the political and cultural motives that, you know, vary from era to era. So part of Yazidi belief is that every person is expected to make a pilgrimage at least once in their lifetime to La L'Leish. This is a small valley roughly 58 kilometers northeast of Masul in Iraq. It is the holiest site in Yazidism, and it is ultimately the spiritual center of the faith. You can imagine something similar to the Hajj in Islam, where you take a pilgrimage to Mecca and Saudi Arabia. Now at the heart of Lalish sits the tomb of Sheikh Adi ibn Musafir. This is the 12th century Sufi mystic who's considered a divine figure in Yazidi theology.
Starting point is 00:09:40 His shrine with the conical spires is the focal point of Yazidi worship. Lalish is ancient. Springs flow through the sanctuary and Yazidis believe that the water itself is sacred, connecting all the way back to the creation of the world itself, fire and water. The main elements that are held sacred in ancient Iranian traditions are also central to rituals that they perform here. So when Yazidis enter La Lish, they first remove their shoes, they tie special knots in cloth at the doorway, and each knot represents a prayer or a wish or a connection to the divine. The walls are blackened by centuries of oil lamps kept burning in honor of God and, of course, the angels. And for much of history, La Leiche was protected by its remoteness.
Starting point is 00:10:28 The mountains kept it safe when Yazidis in the plains were being slaughtered. But in 2014, when ISIS swept through northern Iraq, the militants came within miles of LaLeish itself. And fortunately, they were stopped by Kurdish Peshmerga, which are the Kurdish fighters and American air strikes. But the terror that Leish might fall, you know, that the holiest sight of one of the most persecuted religious communities of one of the most persecuted people groups on earth might be destroyed, it really sent shockwaves through the entire global Yazidi community. And today, Lalish still survives and the faith indoors, as it always has. But that fear remains.
Starting point is 00:11:09 While Yazidism is the most well-known indigenous Kurdish religion, there's another faith just as fascinating, but a lot more secretive. And that faith is Jarsanism, also known as Al-Irish religion. I Hakh, the people of truth. It's this esoteric religion founded by Sultan Shahak in the late 14th century in Western Iran. Its followers are, you know, there's not a ton. It's somewhere between like 500,000 to maybe 3 million on higher estimates, and they live primarily in Iran's Kerman Shah, province, or in parts of Iraqi Kurdistan. Yarsanism is built on profoundly mystical beliefs, and at the core is the concept of divine manifestation, the idea that God has appeared
Starting point is 00:11:53 in human form multiple times throughout history. Yarsanis believe that different epochs of the world have seen different incarnations of this same divine being. According to the second epoch, the primary divine manifestation was Ali Ibn Abi Talib, the fourth caliph and the first imam of Shia Islam. This has led some outsiders to call Yarsani's Ali al-Ali al-Hi, or worshippers of Ali.
Starting point is 00:12:21 A label that the Yarsanis themselves actually were object as a just a blatant misunderstanding of their beliefs. Now in the fourth epoch, the current era, the divine manifestation was Sultan Sahak himself. And according to Yarsanian tradition, Sultan Sahak's mother was a Kurdish virgin named Katsun I. Rezbar, who became pregnant miraculously when a pomegranate kernel fell into her mouth from a tree. Yarsanism also teaches that transmigration of soul. So basically the belief that the soul passes through successive bodies and a
Starting point is 00:12:53 cycle of spiritual purification. And this is what they call the changing of garments, or Dunaduni. Now, like Yazidism, Jarsanism emphasizes a group of seven divine beings, the Haftan, or the seven persons, who are charged with the affairs of the spiritual realm. Their sacred texts are written in Gorani, this ancient Kurdish language that few Yarsanis can read today. And for centuries, Yarsanis have practiced their faith in secret. They have no form. like mosque or church, religious ceremonies take place just in homes, also known as Jumkanas, where the sacred ten-bore, this stringed instrument, is played during worship. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break real quick because I've got to ask you a question.
Starting point is 00:13:37 Are you the type of person that just wakes up in the morning and immediately, like, hits your vape or gets a coffee or throws in a pouch because you just want to feel anything at all? Like, just throughout the day, you're like, okay, coffee pouch, coffee pouch, coffee, pouch, Vabe coffee pouch. I mean, to be honest with you, that was me. Like, I was just going from cold brew to pouch to cold brew to pouch all day, and my heart felt like it was going to explode. Like, I was just, like, felt strung out, like, all day, truly. I was like just kind of anxious and I didn't even know why. And I was trying to, like, eat clean. I was lifting weights. Meanwhile, I was also chemically nuking my nervous system. And that's why I started these ultra
Starting point is 00:14:12 pouches. I'll be honest with you. I found these on my own. And then I reached out to the company, I was like, hey, I would love to work with you guys because I love what you guys do. Ultra is amazing because it's nicotine-free and caffeine-free, and it still gives you that focus and energy. It's really the best. I'm like, okay, there's no nicotine or caffeine. I was like, well, what is it? Well, basically, they partnered with neuroscientists
Starting point is 00:14:31 to put together a blend of like neutropics and adaptogens to actually help you focus and get energized and kind of help with that oral fixation, no ditty, without like the jittery crash. So it's got like altheonine, Infinity PX, Alpha GPC, vitamins B6 and B12. and I'll be honest, they taste great, they make you feel great, and I don't know if it's just me or what,
Starting point is 00:14:52 but I truly feel like I'm more locked in when I'm taking them, and there's no crash. And the craziest thing is that, you know, sometimes I'll still use nicotine. It just helps me cut back, and I feel way better. Now, caffeine and nicotine are going to wreck your resting heart rate. It's going to make you feel anxious if you're taking them all the time. And on top of that, it's going to destroy your sleep.
Starting point is 00:15:09 So that was my biggest issues. I felt cracked out. I felt anxious, and I wasn't sleeping that good. But ever since I've been taking Ultra, I'm still getting that same little kick. I'm getting that thing to do throughout the day, and I just feel better in general. Ultra is absolutely amazing, and if you're interested in checking them out, I have great news. You're going to go to takeultra.com, that's t-a-k-e-O-K-E-U-R-R-T-com, and you're going to use a promo
Starting point is 00:15:31 code camp, and you're going to get 15% off when you use that code. That's take ultra.com and use the code camp for 15% off. And when you check out, they're going to ask where you heard about Ultra. Just please tell them that we sent you over at Camp Cag. It really helps us out a lot. Thank you guys so much. feel better, sleep better, get less anxious, but stay locked in. What's up, people? We're going to take a break really quick because I want to tell you about a sponsor we have that I'm so stoked about.
Starting point is 00:15:55 Yes, it's Chubbies. If you never heard of Chubbies, I've been wearing these since legit, like, late high school. Yeah, I'm so stoked. I started this podcast because I wanted a deep dive on crazy stuff in history and just, you know, random wormholes that I got into on the internet. And now I'm working with a brand that I've literally worn for 10 years. Because Chubby's one of those brands that you put on. and you go, oh, this is comfortable. They're like the OG, like I'm going to the beach, I'm chilling on the boat, I'm walking through Soho in the summertime shorts. I mean, they are the best. Their stuff is super breathable.
Starting point is 00:16:28 I mean, the stretch is like OG. They're like one of the first ones that started that. I mean, you can actually move, you can sit, like you can exist without just being absolutely swamped. And they don't just do shorts. They got everything. I mean, they got polos, they got sweaters, they got anything you can imagine. And it's all that wrinkle resistant, quick drying,
Starting point is 00:16:45 anti-microbial greatness that basically makes all their stuff, you know, the most, basically the mix between like, I'm the most comfortable I've ever been. I could go to sleep right now, but also I'm a functioning adult that looks amazing while I'm at work. And great news, this is the 15-year anniversary, and they're bringing back the originals. These are literally the shorts that started the entire thing. Same iconic fit, the same inseam options, and that same energy like, you know, I'm just going to pull up and, you know, crack a brew on a Friday, that type of vibe. So whether you are weekending, weekdaying, going to the beach, barbecue, or just living your life, Chubbies has you covered. So for a limited time, Chubbies is giving the listeners of this program 20% off
Starting point is 00:17:28 with the code camp. If you go to chubbies shorts.com. That is 20% off your order with the code camp, C-A-M-P at chubbies shorts.com. I mean, if you guys trust anything I ever say, Chubbies is fantastic. The shorts are truly amazing and you're getting 20% off. What are you waiting for, go check them out. Now, let's get back to the show. Now, the town bore is not just an instrument to the Yarsanis. It is a sacred symbol of their faith, and they believe that the instrument itself actually carries a divine power. Because of their secret of nature and their beliefs about Ali and Ali's divinity, Yarsanis have faced persecution from both Sunni and Shia Muslims. And during the ISIS onslaid, Yarsani villages in Iraq were specifically targeted, and militants considered them
Starting point is 00:18:12 heretics worthy of death for the belief their ancestors had held for 600 years. When the Arab Muslim conquest swept through the Middle East in the 7th century, large portions of the Kurds gradually converted to Islam, or reverted, technically. And today, a clear majority of Kurds, roughly two-thirds to three-quarters, identify as Sunni Muslims. But Kurdish Islam has never been, you know, ordinary Islam. For one thing, most Sunni Kurds follow the Shafi. This is a school.
Starting point is 00:18:42 of Islamic jurisprudence, not the Hanafi school, which is followed by their Arab and Turkish neighbors. And this distinction might seem technical, but for many Kurds, it is an identity marker. And more importantly, Kurdish Sunni Islam is saturated with Sufism. And Sufism is basically the mystical tradition within Islam that emphasizes a direct experience of Allah now. Basically, that you can connect with God in the present reality. And it has very, you know, there's very much the guidance of spiritual masters and a very much a charismatic movement within the faith. And there are two Sufi orders that dominate Kurdish religious life. The Naqshbandia and the Qadiria. These orders are organized around shakes, basically spiritual leaders who serve as intermediaries
Starting point is 00:19:30 between ordinary believers and the divine. The shakes deployed their influence through caliphas. basically deputies who live amongst the people. Now, historically, these Sufi sheikhs wielded enormous political power. In the 19th the 20th century, some of the most important Kurdish nationalist leaders were also Sufi sheikhs, men like Sheikh Saeed or Sheikh Ubedullah of the Naqqqqqqandia order. This fusion of religion and nationalism actually makes a lot of sense. The sheikhs had networks, they had followers, they had moral authority to call people to action, and when the Kurds fought for independence, they often fought under the banner of their faith, basically, if not more, than the banner of their ethnicity. And it's worth noting that Kurdish religious identity is broader
Starting point is 00:20:16 than Yazidism or Yarsanism or Sunni Sufism. There are also Alevi Kurds, particularly in Turkey's Tunceli province, who practice a distinct, syncretic tradition. There are Shia Kurds in parts of Iran or Iraq. there are Kurdish Christians, some belonging to ancient churches, others more recent converts, and there are secular and atheist Kurds, especially among the urban classes. The religious map of Kurdistan is extremely complex. But not all Kurds in the mountain villages converted to Islam. Pockets of Yazidis and Yarsanis and Christians held out. Some converted nominally while continuing to practice their ancestral faith in secret, while others were treated to you know, even higher in the mountains, as they always have, beyond the reach of politics and armies
Starting point is 00:21:07 and, you know, people trying to, you know, collect taxes. The Islamic authorities called them kafirs, meaning infidels. They issued Fremans calling for their death and elimination. But again, the mountains provided protection. And to this day, their faith has survived. Now, here's something that most people don't know. One of the most celebrated figures in all of Islamic history was actually Kurdish. Saladin, the sultan who recaptured Jerusalem from the Crusaders in 1187, was born in Tikrit, in what is now Iraq, to a Kurdish family. He founded the Ayubid dynasty, united the Muslim world against the crusaders, and became a legend across the Islamic world. Historically, even his enemies respected him.
Starting point is 00:21:52 Richard the Lionheart of England reportedly called Saladin one of the greatest princes of his age. Saladin was known not just for his military genius, but for his... mercy to prisoners and his chivalry and his piety. However, there's an interesting irony here. Saladin is celebrated across the air world as an Arab hero, like there are statues of him in Damascus and in Cairo, but he was Kurdish, one of the most famous figures in Islamic history, kind of misidentified for generations. And for Kurds, Saladin represents proof of their place in broader Islamic history. They weren't just converts who came to the faith. They produced one of the greatest champions of Islam. But the irony cuts both ways. The same Islamic civilization that venerates Saladin has
Starting point is 00:22:40 for centuries persecuted other Kurds simply for practicing different faiths. The Yazidis and the Yarsanis, who share Saladin's mountains, who speak his language, who are ethnically his people, have also been called devil worshippers and heretics and have been killed by the thousands. The Kurdish religious experience contains both things, the height of Islamic achievement and the depths of religious persecution by their Muslim brothers. Under the Ottoman Empire, religious persecution of the Yazidis would intensify. For example, in 1516, when Sultan Selim the Grim conquered Syria, Yazidis briefly held positions of power. Some served as emirs or local governors, but this period of tolerance didn't last long. By the mid-16th century, the Ottomans had turned against the
Starting point is 00:23:27 Yazidis. And in 1566, the Grand Mufti of the Ottoman Empire, Abu al-Saud al-Amadi, who was himself occurred, issued fatwas that legitimized the killing of Yazidis and the enslavement of Yazidi women and even the sale of Yazidi slaves in markets. Now, the Yazidi homeland was declared Dar al-Harb, the realm of war, where Islamic law permits military conquests and the taking of spoils. Sunni Kurdish princes, particularly those of the Badinan principality, repeatedly requested Ottoman permission to eliminate these people, to eliminate the Yazidis. And Ottoman documents from 1568 survive in which local rulers asked for Firmans, basically the ethnic cleansing, to end the corruption of the Dacini sect. Descini's being just another colloquial name for the Yazidis.
Starting point is 00:24:20 And these massacres continue for centuries. Every few decades, a new campaign of violence, would sweep through Yazidi villages, and men would be killed, women would be enslaved, and children were then forcibly converted to Islam. Yazidi tradition remembers over 70 such campaigns, though historians debate the exact number and characters of each. Some were large-scale military expeditions, some were localized pogroms. What is not in doubt is the pattern, wave after wave of violence targeting a community because of its faith. Now, by the time the Ottoman Empire collapsed after World War I, the Yazidis had endured. centuries of persecution, and the 20th century would still bring more. If the Ottoman era was brutal for the Azidis, the 20th century was catastrophic for all Kurds,
Starting point is 00:25:05 regardless of their faith. In Iraq, Saddam Hussein viewed the Kurds as a threat that needed to be eliminated. His response was the on-fall campaign, a military operation between 1986 and 1989, designed to permanently solve Iraq's Kurdish problem. The name itself was a religious desecration. On fall comes from a chapter of the Quran where, you know, Saddam appropriated Islamic language to justify his plans for genocide, which is extremely messed up considering how many Kurds identify as just regular Muslim. The campaign involved the destruction of approximately 4,500 Kurdish villages. Men and boys were separated from women and children, loaded into trucks, driven to mass graves in the desert, and executed. The most notorious single event was the chemical attack
Starting point is 00:25:53 on Halabja on March 16th, 1988. Iraqi aircraft dropped a combination of mustard gas and sarin and taboon and VX on a town of 70,000 people. And roughly 5,000 civilians died in a single afternoon. Many of them are children. It remains the largest chemical weapons attack directed against a civilian population in human history. The victims include Kurds of all faiths. Sunni Muslims, Shia Muslims, Yazidis, Yarsani's Christians, Saddam didn't discriminate at all. To him, they were all just Kurds, and they all had to die. Human Rights Watch estimated between 50 and 100,000 Kurds were killed during the onfall campaign. But the truth is, the real figure might never be known. And then came August 2014. The Islamic States swept through northern Iraq, conquered territory with terrifying speed.
Starting point is 00:26:47 And when they reached Sinjar, the heartland of the Yazidi community, they unleashed horror. that even the Yazidis, with their long memory of persecution, had never seen before. There were mass executions of men and young boys, forced conversion of children, and the systematic enslavement of women and girls, sold in markets, passed between fighters, sexually abused, repeatedly in what ISIS ideologies called religiously sanctioned marriage. ISIS specifically targeted the Yazidis, again, because of this peacock angel thing. The militants still maintained that the Azidis were devil worshippers and that killing them, enslaving them and destroying their holy place was actually a religious duty for them to do. The United Nations formally recognized what
Starting point is 00:27:32 happened at Sinjar as genocide, and the Azidis added it to their count. By their reckoning, it was the 74th Fremont, the 74th campaign of extermination in their collective memory. Thousands fled to Mount Sinjar, trapped on the mountain without food or water as ISIS surrounded them below. American airstrikes eventually helped break the siege, and Kurdish Peshmerga fighters, including many Yazidi themselves, fought house-to-house to liberate their homeland. Nadia Marad, a Yazidi woman who survived ISIS captivity and sexual slavery, actually won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2018 for her advocacy. She became the first Iraqi citizen to receive a Nobel Prize. Thousands of Yazidi women remain missing to this day. Many are believed to still be held captive,
Starting point is 00:28:20 somewhere in Syria or in Turkey. Now, in the aftermath of the ISIS genocide, something unexpected happened in Kurdistan. Some Kurds began converting to Zoroastrianism. For some, this was a rejection of Islam. They blamed Islamic extremism for the horrors that they had witnessed, the beheadings, the slavery, the destruction of these ancient sites, and they wanted a faith that felt authentically Kurdish, untainted by the violence done in the name of Allah.
Starting point is 00:28:47 And for others, it was just a spiritual calling. Zoroastrianism's emphasis on this cosmic battle between good and evil, its reference for, you know, its fire and truth, the ancient Iranian-Persian roots, all of that really resonated with Kurds and really helped them find meaning after this trauma. Many say they chose Zoroanism because it felt like a return to their pre-Islamic heritage, though historians note that the relationship between ancient Kurdish religion and Zoroastrianism is complicated and contested to this day. In 2015, the Kurdistan regional government officially recognized Zoroastrianism as a religion in small Zoroastrian communities, and at least one fire temple have emerged in Iraqi Kurdistan. Estimates speak of hundreds to a few thousands of adherence, and these numbers are, once again, contested difficult to verify. But the symbolism is powerful. After everything, after onfall by Saddam, after ISIS, after centuries of persecution, some Kurds are reclaiming a piece of their pre-Islamic heritage. However, not everyone approves. An Islamic cleric in Soleimania called for Zoroastrian converts to be killed if they didn't return to Islam within three days.
Starting point is 00:29:57 But the converts continued anyway. They persisted and once again, the mountains protected them. The Kurdish religious story is not ancient history only. It's happening right now. There are still Yazidi women in captivity today. There are still Yarsanis practicing their faith in secret in Iran. afraid of what their neighbors might do if they found out. There are still Kurds across four countries who cannot build a church or a temple or a Jumkana without fear. And yet, they're still around. They're
Starting point is 00:30:30 still here, still practicing, still believing, and every year, thousands of Yazidis still make the pilgrimage to La Lish. They still tie their knots of prayer on the doorway. They still light their oil lamps. The Yarsanis have been called heretics for six centuries. They still played the sacred Tanbor in their Jamkanas, they still passed on the teachings of Sultan Shahak. And the Kurdish Sufis have seen their sheikhs imprisoned and executed. They still gather in their tekkas. They still chant the names of Allah. And there's a Yazidi hymn that says God has 1,001 names. Another that says he has 3,003 names. Kurdish communities across all their faiths have been preserving these religious traditions whose roots stretch back millennia through
Starting point is 00:31:14 persecution and exile and chemical weapon attacks and genocide. And they keep speaking those names. And if history has taught us anything, we know that the Kurds are probably never going to stop, and the mountains will continue to protect them. And that is a brief overview of the religious and theological background of the Kurdish people. I mean, a fascinating, a fascinating group. I mean, it's a, it's a difficult thing when you are a religious or ethnic minority without a country, you're going to have a tough time. Like, I know people are going to talk about like, oh, like Jews get expelled from all these countries. It's like, yeah, dude, like if you don't have a country and you are an ethnic or religious minority, you're going to get effed up. And the Kurds are another example of that.
Starting point is 00:32:02 It's like, yeah, if you don't have a country, you don't have Kurdistan, you're just existing between all these other countries. people are going to try to kill you a lot. It's an unfortunate feature of nationalism that happens when economic times get tough in our current system. The leaders in place will try to place blame amongst a population they can scapego. It's messed up, but it's true. And this is why presently there's like a lot of talk about Kurds in Iran because there's some fear that if there is a Kurdish state that is established, that that creates an existential threat for Turkey who has. you know, 15 to 20 million Kurds, and people are afraid that basically Turkey would lose a
Starting point is 00:32:42 massive piece of their territory, which then would cause more fighting and wars and da-da-da-da. It just never ends. And, yeah, that's one of the casualties of how things were kind of cut up after World War I and World War II, where, you know, countries were reshaped and everyone got new borders and the Kurds were just shit out of luck. Completely unfair. I mean, 40 million people without a, you know, ability to autonomously. govern themselves or, you know, choose their own destiny. But not many people know about them.
Starting point is 00:33:13 I feel like people are familiar with like the Peshmerga probably. Like if you ever seen like the BBC or read an article in Al Jazeera. But I'll be honest with you, I'm not an expert. I don't even know that much about Kurds. But I think we should do an episode about the history of the Kurds. I think that would be a fascinating history deep dive. Maybe that'll be the next one that we do. And I'm sure you're wondering where are you going to do this. I'm glad you asked. We're going to do it at History Camp. History Camp is another channel we do. Basically, we go through a deep dive on everything that's ever happened ever in history. That's kind of the goal. And if this channel is to figure out where we're going, history camps to figure out where we've been. And of course, I have Camp
Starting point is 00:33:46 Gagnon. That's where I do deep dives and all sorts of other random miscellaneous stuff that's going on right now. And if you guys want to check this out, we've got the links in the description. If you want to get the merch, you can go to Camp R&D. If you want to see me live, you go to Mark Gagdon live. And if you want to just keep rocking with us here, our religion camp, you more than welcome. Christos, you have anything you want to contribute? What do the Greeks think about the Kurds. I just didn't realize how persecuted they were. It's kind of sick. 74. 74 times, dude.
Starting point is 00:34:13 Good thing they have the mountains. Thank God they got the mountains, dude. They got to keep on going up. At the very end, it's just going to be like five Kurds at the top of the mountain just like hang on for dear life. Like, gee, can we get a fucking apartment or something? Can we get anything? Maybe we'll start to go find me for the Kurds. Like a copper dome or something. Yeah, it's something that we could be able to do.
Starting point is 00:34:33 Anyway, shout out to the Kurds. There's any Kurds watching. Please let me know. Did I mess this up is there anything I got wrong. Please drop a comment. I would love to be informed, even a little bit more. And if we have Kurdish listeners here at the campsite, how sick would that be? I had no idea. Add us up in the comments. Drop a comment. I read them all and be nice to each other, all right? This is not that serious. We're all going to die, okay? Nothing. Come on. The world's going to explode. Your legacy means nothing. Just love your family and drop a comment, all right? Anyway, God bless you and I'll see you next time. Peace with you.

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.