Camp Gagnon - The NFL’s DARKEST Tragedy | Aaron Hernandez

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

Who was Aaron Hernandez, and was he an evil individual or a victim of CTE? Today, we take a closer look at the dark storylines of one of the most famous athletes. We’ll talk about the early life of Aaron Hernandez, his abusive parents, joining the University of Florida, Aaron's life of crime, the killing of Daniel de Abreu and Safiro Furtado, the trial of Aaron Hernandez, Aaron’s stage 3 CTE, and other interesting topics...Welcome to CAMP! 🏕️Shoutout to our sponsors: Sleep-Dust and Morgan & BlueChewIf you’re ready to revitalize your sleep Use promo code SLEEP for 20% off. when you visit http://www.sleep-dust.com/ 👕🧢 GET YOUR CAMP DRIP HERE: http://camp-rd.com🎟️ 🎫 Comedy Tour Tickets Here: https://markgagnonlive.com🎩👽 Daily Dose Of History Here: https://www.dailytodayinhistory.comTimestamps:0:00 Welcome to Camp1:00 The Early Life of Aaron Hernandez7:30 Abusive Parents in Sports12:18 Gay NFL Players14:08 Aaron’s Dad Passes Away16:36 Aaron Joins University of Florida19:58 Punching a Guy In a Bar + Questioned By Police24:40 Nick Saban’s Henry Ruggs Speech30:55 The Patriots Draft Aaron Hernandez36:23 Returning to Crime Life38:15 The Killing of Daniel de Abreu and Safiro Furtado44:13 Aaron Kills Odin Lloyd1:01:19 The Trial of Aaron Hernandez1:09:31 Police Discover Aaron’s Body + Aaron's Cell Drawing1:12:40 Aaron’s Stage 3 CTE1:21:19 What Happened to Aaron's Money

Today we're diving into one of the most shocking and tragic cases in sports history. The rise and fall of Aaron Hernandez. This isn't just about a football player that threw away a promising NFL career. This is a story of how childhood trauma, untreated brain damage, and a double life of violence led to multiple murders that shocked the entire world. We'll explore how Aaron Hernandez went from an abused kid in Connecticut to catching passes from Tom Brady and becoming a superstar in the NFL, all while secretly committing brutal murders. We'll examine the warning signs that ever.

Everyone ignored. The evidence that brought down his carefully constructed facade and the devastating brain disease that may explain his descent into violence. By the end of this episode, you will understand how Aaron Hernandez became capable of such brutal murders. And why his story serves as a cautionary tale about trauma, brain injury, and the hidden cost of our most popular spruce group. So, let's jump into it. Without further ado, sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. What's up, people, and welcome back to camp. My name is Mark Agnon.

and thank you for joining me. In my tent, where every single week we explore the most interesting, fascinating, controversial stories from around the world from all time, from all ages. I'm always joined by my good friend. Christos, how are you, Christos? Doing great. All right, all right, enough gab and Christos.

I've seen a lot of the comments. People are annoyed with all of your jibber-jabber. All right, every single episode, I'm good. It's just enough. Love you guys. You're taking time away from our illustrious guests and a dear friend of the show and my new friend, Alex Monaghan.

How are you? Great. Doing well. Excited to talk about some murders. Yeah. I guess. And some sports also. For a Wednesday afternoon, yeah.

Yeah, I think if we, obviously we're going to be discussing Aaron Hernandez today. But I wonder if I feel like it would be way funnier if we just only talked about a sports career. If we were just like, he was so good. Dude, he was unbelievably talented. And at the end be like, wait, what is this? He killed something? Yeah, exactly. That's crazy.

Possibly five people. Yeah, I didn't know about all this. That's wild. But yeah. I mean, I, to be honest with you, I was never an American football fan. Like, I would, like, I'm from Orlando. You know what I mean? Like, we don't really have a team.

I'd have friends that are like, you know, like UF fans. But even then, it's like, I was always so disconnected. My parents are Canadian. They never had a strong interest in American sports in general. So I hear about this whole Aaron Hernandez thing. And I'm just like, this is crazy. I couldn't even, like, understand the gravity and, like, the magnitude of everything. Even basically up until I actually started doing research on it that I was like,

Oh, this is wild. Yeah. Like, you were obviously a sports fan growing up. Yeah, huge. You were familiar with Aaron Hernandez, like, when he came onto the radar. Like, what was your, like, earliest Aaron Hernandez memory? I mean, you guys were best friends, so. Yeah.

Well, we were not best friends. I mean, they were just, like, him, him plus Gronk was obviously, they were unstoppable. And then with Brady, like, I mean, he was a freak athlete, right? Like, I think so many people knew that, you know, even going back to Florida, like, he had all these problems kind of circulating. Mm-hmm. Or rumors at the time, allegations or, like, connections, or was a suspect. But, like, there was nothing proving it and he was so damn good at football. Yeah.

Just the same way, I think, like, if LeBron does anything bad, which he almost certainly does. Like, I feel like there's a billion rumors about- Don't even start this right now. Okay. I'm a LeBron stand. Okay. LeBron has never done anything wrong. Whatever you're accusing him of, he's innocent.

Okay, okay, better. I mean, look, I love Kobe. He's also innocent. Definitely, yeah. But like, he's like, oh, shit. But like, I think, I mean, if someone's good enough at sports, like, I mean, Kobe, like, kind of got washed over, right? Obviously, caused trouble for a bit, but has not affected, really, his legacy at all. It transcends.

It transcends sports, it's, like, it's just culture. Like, if you're good enough at something, it's so genius, it's something. American society in the world at large will look past things that you do until your grievances sort of come close to your talent level. That's how talented Connie West is is that he's literally on the record

being like, yo, Hitler. And it took people up until that to be like, hold on a second, maybe this guy might be bad news. Like that's how good he is at music that, like everything else he was saying leading up to that. They're like, all right, Confederate flag,

we can look past it. You know, this other crazy thing he said will look past it. And then that was finally like, all right, you can't, you can't DFI Hitler. But it was up until then that everyone was like, no, the music's still. And then even now, there's still people who are like, music's great. Right. You know what I mean?

I mean, Michael Jackson, right? Quintessential, which, I mean, he was never charged, so, allegedly. But yeah, you got to be, if you're going to be bad, you've got to be talented. Yeah. And Aaron Hernandez certainly was up until the end and that everything came out. But we're going to get into the whole story. And it starts in Bristol, Connecticut, a place that I have never been to. I'm actually going to be in Stanford pretty soon

maybe by the time this drops I'll have already been there so if there's anyone mad about this please don't come to the show. But Aaron Hernandez was born November 6, 1986, which is so crazy like how old I'm getting that I read people's birthdays and I'm like, this guy was almost, he would have been like close to me in age.

Like it's like, it's crazy to think about. Does it bother you now that you'll see professional athletes that are younger than you? Yeah. That shit works me. I think I had a realization. Who wasn't? Who was it?

Well, I think it's like once you hit like 25, 26, there's still like a few left. But then when you're 27 and you're watching March Madness, like the best player in the country and just seeing they're younger than you. Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's crazy. For me, it was John Morant. John Morant was crazy. Seeing John Moran play and I'm like, well, this guy's obviously, you know, 32 and I'm 19. And then I was like, wait a second.

I'm fucking 27. and he's 24. Yeah. I was like, well, fuck. I mean, yeah, I think that. I think that with a lot of people, though, not just athletes. Like the up-and-coming streamers, it's crazy.

It's crazy their success, speed, Kai, just at, like, such a young age. I mean, speed, 20? I don't even think he can drink. Isn't that insane? He has, like, 40 million YouTube subs or something. He has the wrongs of people in Indonesia following around at every given moment. Everywhere. My boy can't even rent a car.

Like, that's insane. I mean, the new, these are the new, I mean, dude, I don't even want to know where he's at at 40. It's going to be crazy. Yeah, true. It's uncharted. I mean, yeah, Mr. Bees. The level of fame at 20 is insane. Yeah, it'll be fast.

I will watch that Netflix documentary. Yeah. But anyway, to Aaron Hernandez. He's the son of Dennis and Terry. Okay. Dennis, Pops. He was a football player back in the day, star athlete at Bristol Central High. And play at the University of Connecticut.

So his dad was a college ball. And Bristol, for anyone that doesn't know, is basically it's like your typical working class spot. You know what I mean? It's like Friday night, everyone's going to the football field, watch some high school kids play ball. Kind of Friday night lights sort of energy, which, low-key, sort of sick. But Dennis, his dad, wasn't only his dad. He is, he was the kid, he was the dude that would be on the sidelines. So they're like going crazy at every game, allegedly.

Hate to see it. Which I knew so many of these dads growing up. which playing soccer you get every different type which is fascinating. I feel like football and baseball, you get like a very specific type of sports dad. When you play soccer, you'll get like the Jamaican like soccer dad.

You'll get like the Brazilian soccer dad. And they're yelling at the ref in different languages. You know what I mean? That shit was hilarious to me. But that was his dad. He was like, he was taking it very seriously. And he's like not just yelling at Little League umpires.

According to investigations from the Boston Globe, he would physically abuse both Aaron and his older brother, and the basic rule in their house was simple. Do great at sports, and you won't get, you won't get whooped. So Aaron and his brother learned that their dad's love was a little conditional. And as a result, they got pretty fucking good. So maybe violence is the answer. But basically, yeah, his dad was like, yeah, if you do well, I'm going to go to your games.

I'll feel good about the game afterwards and we'll be good. And if you don't do good, I'm going to fucking lecture you. potentially put some hands on you, which less than ideal. Yeah. Which, dude, I used to like play games. My mom would try to give me advice afterwards, and I'd be like, you don't even know, you don't even play soccer. You know what I mean? I would get so pissed.

But if you just hit me, I'd be like, all right, maybe, maybe I'll come around. You didn't, you were saying you didn't really play sports growing up. No, I did, but not super competitively. Like, I remember. Like high school? Yeah, the high school I went to, we went, like, I think one in 13, my junior year. And the game we won, my mom was like, ah, like, I feel, like, It was so sad looking at the other team after they lost.

They look so discouraged from like, to fuck, mom, we're like one in ten. Your mom's an artist. You know what I mean? She has like, she has an artist's empathy that comes through. She's like, why are you being so mean to those kids? Just lose. Make them happy, you know?

I do feel like though, I mean, I mean, obviously I don't, I don't feel like I grew up with anyone whose parents were obviously, I mean, hopefully not as intense as his dad about sports, but I mean, a lot of parents with school nowadays with their kids. Oh, yeah. They completely changed their tune depending on. how, I mean, tiger parents, right? Like, I used to high school I went to, I feel like that was pretty common.

Which it is a tricky thing because... That guy looks psycho. Yeah, I mean, he's got... Dennis Hernandez. Oh, he's an intense dude. Oh, yeah. I mean, I would go through a brick wall for that guy, though. You know what I mean?

Yeah, he looks like he'd be a good football coach. He has the look that he's... Yeah. No, he's dialed in. I mean, I would be afraid to just play against that guy's team. You know what I mean? Like, forget what the players look like. If that guy's the head coach, I'm like,

no, I'm just going to sit this one out. I mean, that is intense. But yeah, it's such a weird thing because all these, like, greats, whether it's, like, music, sports, maybe that's it. They had a parent that was, like, diabolically focused.

And that's, like, obviously not the best way. I mean, like, we talked about MJ before, like, his dad was, like, psycho. And it's such a tricky thing because, like, it does create excellence, but at what cost. And... Yeah, I mean, his dad, like,

would just, like, throw, like, balls at him while he was, like, trying to, like, drive, you know, like, it's like crazy. Yeah. But at the same time, it does create the greatest of all time. For sure. So it's like, is it possible to create greats without being a demon? I mean, 100%.

But I mean, like, you look at, yeah, I think it's just like there's a line because you see videos now of Jalen Brunson as like a kid and his dad training him. His dad's intense. And Jalen Brunson's like, he just looks like a kid. His dad's having him run sprints like faster, faster, got to keep shooting. Like, I mean, that is not the relationship. Like, definitely intense, but. But it seems much more productive. Not abusive.

Yeah, much more productive and paternal. Yeah, I'm trying to think, like, yeah. I think that is the, you need someone that's like intense and like, it demands excellence, but is also balanced and like still paternal at the end of the day, you know. And it doesn't stop there for our, or, you know, Aaron Hernandez because not only was the abuse. But you were going to say our boy Aaron Hernandez. Not that, but... Well, he was a boy here. So up until this point, I do feel bad for him.

Yeah. But he was also sexually abused as a kid. And though the details have never been fully disclosed, um, he's literally learning from a young age, like the people that are around him that are supposed to, like, kind of have his back, whether it's like his dad or, you know,

certainly people that are close to him, like, sexual abuse, typically and unfortunately disproportionately happens to kids from people that are close to the family, whether it's like, you know, a Boy Scout coach, a pastor in the church, uh, like a football coach, whatever. Yeah. So certainly he's learning at a young age like, hey, no one has my back.

No one's protecting me. I got to ultimately fend for myself. And so not only that, there have been sort of like rumors that have gone around that he was also confronted with sort of confusion about his sexuality. So according to a high school report from people that knew him in high school that he had a boyfriend that he was gay, but he was terrified his dad would find out. And so as a result, he's dealing with like all this internal confusion. and psychologically is damaged from this upbringing. They're like you have sports excellence on one hand that will save you and everything else,

you know, your own mind, the people that are around you that protect you are also, you know, like coming at you from the opposite side. I mean, a tough spot for a kid. So. Definitely tough. Especially, I mean, I assume this is when he was already playing football.

I don't think, is there a gay NFL player? Can we look that up? now I don't even know or NBA I would be shocked I think I mean Carl Nassad was like the only one but that was like how many NFL that was that was yeah but that was years ago I feel like he retired

from the league well yeah it came out in 2021 while playing for the Raiders and oh his jersey's now with the Smithsonian I mean shout out to you dude got put up in the rafters my boy damn right I mean I would do it if I was in NFL now dude

I would just you know I would get I would get a hand job one time to get my jersey in the Smithsonian. That seems like a worthwhile trade. You know what I mean? Just be like, yeah, dude, I'm a little gay. Hang my jersey up from the fucking, from a dinosaur. I mean, that's sick.

I mean, this is hilarious. But I... You're just Googling gay NFL players and it's just pulling up random people's names. Can you look up gay high school players? Yeah, because I think we're talking about that time. Yeah, yeah, look up gay podcasters in this tent right now. Just my image a thousand times.

Like, fuck. So, everything changes. 2006, Dennis went in for a routine hernia surgery. And these surgeries happen all the time without any problems, but something goes wrong. And Dennis, his father, dies of complications when Aaron is only 16. So you can see how this adds a complexity to the story. Dennis is, you know, one of Aaron's, like, largest sources of trauma,

but also his, like, biggest cheerleader and, like, the guy that's, like, pushing him to excel. So this guy, right, like, you can imagine your dad. like having your back but also kind of abusing you, I mean, fully abusing you, and then him passing away sends you down a spiral. Like losing your dad at 16 regardless is traumatizing, but then also the mixed emotions of like what your relationship, what your dad was.

So after Dennis dies, the situation gets a little weirder because Aaron's mother, Terry starts dating her niece's husband. So basically like Aaron's older cousin's husband. And Aaron then moves in with them. So now you have like a grieving teenager. confused by his sexuality, abused by his dad, sexually abused also at a certain point, now living with his mom and, like, his cousin's husband, and they had, like, a whole fallout

and they're, I mean, this is, like, the most chaotic web of a childhood I've heard, which is also a problem because you read about people and almost always, like, people that have done terrible things and you get into their backstory and you're like, oh, I kind of feel bad. Yeah. Yeah. I have, like, a problem with this because, like, I over-empetize with everything, to a fault where like I'll read about some serial killer and it's like, yeah, you know, he was a ritually tortured by his father for eight years of his life and I'm like, yeah, that's probably not good for anyone's psychology, you know?

But I'm like, damn, I'm fucking feeling bad for a serial killer. Regardless, this is Aaron's situation. And to add another layer of the chaos, Aaron was living with people who were sort of family, but not really, in a house where his place was unclear and a sense of belonging is constantly up for debate. And sports is kind of like the only, Escape.

Which also, how tall was Aaron Hernandez? Can we get a, can we get a fact check on that? Because, like, he's not a small dude. No. So, like, given this whole family situation, plus also just being, like, a gifted freak athlete. All right. Shorter than I thought. I mean, six, two.

But he had to be. That's a heavy. Can we get his weight? Yeah, yeah. I want to know. I mean, he was, this guy was moving. 2.45. Yeah, he was moving.

And he was fast as fuck. That's a big boy. Yeah. Damn. So, that is basically. Obviously his childhood, as you can imagine, is not a great spot to be in. So he graduates from Bristol Central High School and then enrolls at Florida in January 2007. And this is not just any college program.

This is U.F. University of Florida under Urban Meyer, Tim Tebow. So sick. Tim Tebow at Corvette. So sick. Right. That would have been a great year to be at UF. I couldn't imagine, dude.

Like my parents used to go, like despite them not really being fans, like they had friends that were like involved in the school. so they would go to UF football games and like they were going in this era like sitting in the box watching Tim Tebow just throw dimes. Yeah. Were you like falling sports at that point like in the Tim Tebow era?

Yeah, but not. I mean, I was young. Dude, kids in my school were on fire for Tebow. Like every like football game like I would be like with my little like fucking 10 year old friends. I mean he was legendary. They put on the John 316, the Philippians 413 like fucking eye black.

Like it transcends. transcended, like, my school and, like, my area. So that's the team he goes to. And this is championship level program. And, yeah, this is the team. And not only that Urban Meyer also is, like, a... He runs a tight ship. He's a goat.

Yeah. He's a goaded coach. What is he doing now? Where's Urban Meyer at these days? Is he coaching still? Let's find that out, actually. He was coaching for Ohio State. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, that's right. Now I think he's a commentator. I mean, I mean, the amount of, yeah, I'm so curious. I bet you, I want to know what he made. Yeah, Fox Sports. What is his net worth? The, the salaries of these college coaches is so absurd to me. Every time I see, like.

But you have no job security. Yeah, yeah. These NBA coaches, I feel like they're fired every six months or a year, 35 mil. I figure to be a little more than that. Probably wrong. Yeah, right? This guy's blowing money.

I mean, yeah, what was a salary? That wouldn't surprise me. six year $24 million deal Oh shit He didn't get paid that much Compared to like Nick Sabin Yeah Nick Sabin was making like 15 a year

Unless I'm crazy And he's on all these commercials Yeah maybe I'm wrong Sabin was pulling crazy money Yeah what is what is Sabin pulling 80? 280 I don't buy that 130 I'm buying the over I would hammer the over for a lot of money

earning 130 million salary Yeah fuck that bullshit at Alabama alone He doesn't strike me as a guy to blow money on fancy cars either. I mean, you see fancy hats, though. Yeah, fancy hats. I know you've seen his hats, dude. I mean, dude, when Gillis was cooking him, Alabama Jones is so funny. So that's Urban Meyer, right?

Urban Meyer has a reputation for taking talented trouble players and basically turning them around and, like, changing the trajectory of their lives through discipline and structure. And, you know, the idea was that football could be a positive force in these dudes' lives and with the right coaching, the right environment, you help grow them up. You know what I mean? They're 18 years old when they're getting to college.

So he genuinely believes that he can help these players from these different backgrounds become better people. And Aaron is sort of like the ideal student for this kind of model, right? He's like struggling, but extremely gifted. And, you know, he's got this childhood trauma and he's able to fit into, you know, Meyer's sort of, you know, college conditioning.

But within a few months of being on campus, Aaron start to go off the rails. And somehow it seems like there was not a ton of attention that was paid to him. So April 2007, he goes into a restaurant near the campus with some teammates. He's still 17 at that point, not even old enough to vote. You know, 17, you're still a kid. And according to the police report, he had been drinking, which first red flag, right, under like Urban Myers, you know, tutelage. Like, you should not be drinking at all.

I don't know if that's a red flag. College kid drinking? No, that's fair. Around a bunch of hot girls at UF on the football team. I'm not... That's fair. Not a red flag, but... I understand.

I do think, like, with the way Urban Meyer, like, from what I've heard, the way he runs shit, like, especially with, like, Tim Tebow, literally Jesus reincarnated as quarterback. I imagine he probably has, like, a pretty strict rule over, like, how the guys behave. So he's at least breaking the, you know, the football code of conduct. He gets into argument with restaurant staff, refused to... to pay the bill and starts making a scene. When the manager tries to intervene, Aaron punched him so hard that it ruptured the man's eardrum.

So not ideal. Catches a little charge off rip. Tim Tebow, you know, the golden child of college football, maybe of all time, was there and tried to break up the fight because he could see that Aaron was like, you know, out of control. And somehow he's not charged with anything. The incident gets handled quietly, probably because, you know, he's this, you know, football star and the university wants to stay

of some publicity. And this is Aaron's first lesson that his talent and skill can help him skirt around the law, right? I mean, like, you beat the shit out of a dude, and then nothing happens. You're like, oh, I'm invincible. I can handle myself and, you know, I'll be protected. So most people would learn like, hey, I should not be fighting people, but he's not most people. So five months later, September, he gets questioned by police in connection with a shooting that leaves two men wounded. Someone had opened fire on a car with three men inside and the witnesses identify Aaron Hernandez as a suspect. Which is psycho. I mean, I don't think there was anything that provoked it either. Really? I don't think so. I mean, you just started firing. But I could

be wrong, but you got to wonder, like, is he involved in like gang shit in Florida? Like, he's not, this is not where you grew up. He doesn't know people that are, like, connected to local gangs. Like, I don't even know if Gainesville is like a big, like, gang area. But somehow, He gets involved in, you know, a gunfight or maybe just a straight up shooting. And he's brought in for questioning, but once again, no charges are filed. There's not enough evidence. The witnesses aren't willing to testify. Maybe the investigation is enough to go through.

Whatever the reason, Aaron walks away from another serious violent incident without any type of consequences. And like, dude, if I got questioned for a shooting I had no involvement in, I'd be like, whoa, that's crazy. I should chill. Like, even me. You know what I mean? Like if like I would be like yeah I'm not going to do any other type of illicit activity at all just being questioned the rest of the day Yeah for at least the rest of that Not buying blow later

Yeah exactly yeah like like I like like I don't even like going through like TSA I'm just like oh shit It's like scary did if I have a waterball I think that's oh okay We're thinking about different things but yeah I'm like I just don't like that kind of confrontation with authority I'm just like I don't want to no No it's not fun you ever go through border control you go to a different country and they're like do you have anything in your bag? Do you have money or like did you bring food back? I don't travel outside the country. For good reason.

Yeah, exactly. You're more afraid than me. So during the 2007 season, he's a freshman. He catches 16 passes. 111 yards, which might not sound like a huge number, but for a freshman tight end in a program loaded with superstars, it's pretty impressive. And it's pretty clear to everyone that, like, yeah,

this guy we're going to build, you know, our team with him. So by 2008 season, is when Aaron really excited. explodes in the national scene because if you don't know, this is when Florida, last won the national championship. Playing alongside Tim Tevo, catches 34 passes, 381 yards, five touchdowns in the regular season, and plays a key role in that championship run. So now he's a junior, 2009. He's become one of the most dominant tight ends in college football history. He's catching 68 passes, 850 yards, five touchdowns, becoming the first gator ever to win the John McKay Award as the nation's best collegiate

tight end. And pro scouts are already looking at him like, yeah, this guy's going to the league. But the pattern is becoming clear for anyone who wanted to see. And of course, hindsight is 20. Because Aaron gets into some more legal trouble. What were you going to say? No, I was just going to say it kind of reminds me of Henry Ruggs a little bit. Like, I think like with Nick Saban, I don't know. I just feel like the coaches don't actually know all the players that well. Like Nick Saban said something about Henry Ruggs after he was going like 140, whatever, got into the car accident and killed that dude. Now he's in jail. I think still.

Is Henry Rugg still in jail? Really? He's still in jail. But Saban has a famous. I never even heard about this story. Like he was always such a kid at Alabama and like there was nothing known. But yeah, he's, yeah. Sabin like has a very emotional clip about it, speech.

But I think like these coaches, how many players are on a college football roster? 100 something? Yeah. These guys have wives, they have kids, like, I don't know. Yeah, you don't know the dealings, like, especially behind the scenes. And if you're able to... That's a great clip. Hold on, click this.

Let me see this. This was so viral, I remember when it first came out? If there was a player in Las Vegas who was drinking at 3 o'clock in the morning with his buddies and his girlfriend and somebody would have taken his keys away, probably would have pissed them off. Probably would have made him bad. Probably wouldn't have thought very much of you. you for doing that. But would he be better off now or is he better off where he was going

156 miles an hour and running an ass into somebody and killing him? And he's in jail. And he doesn't have a career anymore. And he's a good kid. And he never had one problem on our team in Alabama. So what kind of friend were you? What kind of leader were you when you allowed the guy to do it? But nobody wants to do that because they're afraid of what somebody's going to think of him. 156 is crazy. Damn. How do you even go 156, dude? Yeah, what kind of car goes 156?

Yeah, it'd actually be so curious to know. Man, these receivers, though, they got a problem, they got, I mean, Kyron Lacey, who was probably going to be a top draft pick, LSU player. He, I bet on him all. That's how I know the name, but he I'm a. Oh, damn, Corvette. Corvette. No, but he I'm a, another wide receiver.

speeding, he clipped an old guy and hit him in a hit and run, then he committed suicide after. No. Yeah, because he was going to go to jail. He committed suicide. Probably would have been football, or people who know football may disagree, but he was probably going to be, he was going to be pretty high up in the draft. He was going to the NFL. I mean, fuck. LSU. I know, it's crazy. There's a tragic thing all around. You're like, damn. Yeah, I mean, it is, it is a tricky spot to being, especially as, like, a college football coach, because, like, you have these kids that are coming in, some of them troubled.

They're trying to prove themselves. A lot of them not getting paid, especially in this time. So it's like their life depends on this program. You don't want to just like kick him out and be like, hey, you're done. You know what I mean? And so you try to like, okay, we can make him work. And on top of that, if you're so talented that the program benefits, it's like, yo, this is lifting everyone up.

And your success will then kind of help you focus a little bit more. So I can see why these guys are in such a tough spot, like Sabin, Urban. And like, yeah, it's like, it's impossible. So it's like, okay, you have this dual life that's happening with Hernandez already where it's like, okay, he's doing some things. He's getting involved with, you know, confrontations. This is just the stuff that, like, we know about. I'm sure there's way more things like behind the scenes where he's like, oh, he got in a fight with this guy. He's at a bar fighting this dude.

Like, these things, in my opinion, are not isolated incidents. No. And not everything goes up to the head coach or the, you know, like front office guys. So what do you do? You know? And this guy's, he's one of you games. He's a part of the team. Maybe he just needs more time.

And Urban Meyer later so that he regretted some of the decisions he had made regarding Aaron. But at the time, it's like, yeah, you're in like an impossible spot. It's like, yeah, let's just keep him around and hopefully these guys will help him. And he wasn't convicted. Yeah, exactly. He had never done anything criminal. He didn't even go to trial at this point. He had never done anything criminal.

So it's like, if this kid gets out of our program, like he's just going to, he's going to be a mess. So, you know, there's like a duality that's happening. What's up, guys? So we're going to take a break really quick because you need better sleep. I mean, if you're like me, you'll probably wake up feeling exhausted. You miss your workout. You're drinking too much coffee. You feel wired the whole day because you're just shock in your nervous system.

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So go check them out. And thank you so much for support in the show. We got the link in the description. Now let's get back to it. So by the time that Aaron declared for the NFL draft his junior year, he had a resume that looked incredible on paper, right? National champion, John McKay winner, first team, All-American, and basically any NFL team would be more than happy to have him come on. So now NFL scouts and the GMs are not dumb, so they're doing their homework. And while Aaron's issues at Florida aren't front page, obviously within, you know, secret, you know, internal scouting circles, people are starting to, like, hear about some stuff.

and the teams are concerned about his character. Some are so worried they took him off their draft boards completely. Colts, bangles, Steelers, even the Pats, ironically, didn't want to deal with the risk, which I imagine is probably like both. It's like, okay, we don't want a guy that's like legit, a hazard publicity-wise. Yeah. Invest all this money and time into a guy that, like, goes to prison. But then on top of that, like, internal team dynamics, it's like, is he coachable?

Is he able to get along with other guys in the league? Is he able to sit on the bench for a season? Like all that stuff goes into these calculations. So this is what they're dealing with. But New England eventually changes their mind. They take a chance and that decision would later tie them to one of the most shocking murder cases in sports history. And like that, I think, yeah, I feel like it happens with players all the time. Like Sanders this past year, right?

People were talking about him being a top three drapick, fell to fifth. So of his ego and like, you know, Johnny Mansell. Yeah. Right, partying and like, I don't know. Yeah, do these guys fit into the system is like, the psychology of it is actually, that would be a fascinating job. Like, do like psychological evals and like see how guys can actually fit into systems. I mean, also like, I mean, there's a big jump from getting in fights to like murder.

Yeah. Like I assume a lot of football players have been in fights. I mean, right, like, what's his name, Miles Bridges? Like, there are NBA players who like have assault charges. Like, they have beaten up their wives or girlfriends, but, like, I really got a basketball. And, like, I don't know. Like, should they be kicked out of the league or not? Yeah.

And it's like, oh, if they did their time, they resolved it internally. If they, you know, were on probation and now they're done and say, all right, they serve their sentence. Like, what do you do? Yep. So he gets drafted fourth round in the 2010 NFL draft. And, you know, obviously, Patriots know about his incidents in Florida, but they also knew his talent. and Bill Belichick's thinking was pretty simple. Aaron is too talented to pass up

and if anyone could straighten him out, it's the Pats. Which it is kind of ironic to me that he played with Tebow and Tom Brady. It's crazy. Like two, like arguably in their times, like the goats of like different sort of leagues. But then also almost like symbolically, like similar.

You know what I mean? Like Tim Tebow is literally like carrying on like this Christ-like sort of like iconography. And Tom Brady in a different way is also seen as like this golden child. Like the fact that you played for both of these guys,

I find interesting. And you want, yeah. And like I feel like in sports you always wanted people who seemed a little psycho. Like they were the best players. Yeah.

The guys who like cared way too much about Little League and like in high school it was the same. I didn't play college sports. But like the people who were psycho, you know, throwing water bottles when their team lost

were typically the best players. Yeah, someone that cares. Sure, Tom Brady love playing with him. Yeah, I'm sure. It's like, yo, this guy leaves everything out on the field. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, and he gets drafted, and the gamble pays off immediately. Aaron steps right into the Patriots offense and basically proves to be one of the best tight-end prospects in years.

He plays alongside Tom Brady, of course, and then fellow tight-end Rob Grunkowski. And he became part of what many people are calling the most dangerous two tight-end offense. in NFL history. So, Grancowski was this massive guy who could overpower defenders and make catches in traffic, but Aaron is different. He had the size of a tight end, but the speed and the

agility of a wide receiver. So during his rookie season, he catches 45 passes, 563 yards, six touchdowns, and there's solid numbers for any tight ends, but he's a 20-year-old rookie. Again, still can't even legally drink. Then, second season, Aaron goes crazy. Like, kind of similar to what he did at Florida, right, like first season he's good, second season he's out of here.

79 passes, almost 1,000 yards, seven touchdowns, becoming one of Tom Brady's favorite targets. And the chemistry between them is obvious, right? Like Brady trusts Aaron to be in the right place at the right time. Aaron has a skills to make catches and can just do shit on the field that other players can't do. And off the field, it seems like Aaron is kind of like, you know, turning things around. He's in a legit relationship with a girl he's been dating like since high school. And in 2012, they had a daughter. and to anyone watching with the outside, it's like, all right, Aaron's like, all right, he figured it out.

Like the Urban Meyer system, like straightened him out. He's now in the league. He's taking things seriously. He's got a family. And he's going to put all of his... He's got money. Yeah, he's got the life. It worked. Like, whatever the thought process was, it worked. And the Patriots also thought so. You know? Aaron is becoming a cornerstone of their offense and his personal life is stable. And team officials and coaches later said they saw no warning signs that anything was wrong. Aaron showed up to practice on time, worked hard, played well in the games. And from their perspective, it was like, yeah, this is the exact type of story that we wanted.

But under the service, the reality is a little different. So while Aaron is building his NFL career in Massachusetts, he is still maintaining connections to dangerous people back home in Bristol. Aaron would regularly return to Connecticut during the offseason and spend time with gang members, drug dealers, and people who are involved in sort of these, crime circles that he is trying to escape. And this is where the psychology gets interesting, right? As we've said, he has money, fame, success that most people can only dream about. He's playing for one of the most successful teams under one of the most successful, like, coaches, most successful quarterbacks living in a mansion and is still drawn to sort of like the crime world that he knew growing up. Shout out J.

It's interesting, though. I mean, did Jolly even have like, no? He had no connection, right? He grew up in like a nice suburb with like, I mean, that's the extent of what I know. But it is interesting that people, I don't know, you hear this all the time of relationships, right? Where it's like people long for the love that they know, even if it's not good for them. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like, like, typically you see it like with women, but I think it happens both ways where like they'll deal with like abuse from like a parent and then marry a guy that does exactly what their parent did and abuse them. And it creates like these cyclical psychological patterns of like habituation. where like you're getting into these bad experiences that you knew from childhood because ultimately you long for the feeling that you had as a child regardless of how it affects you. Yeah.

Which is just like, I don't know, it's a beneficial thing that I think people need to kind of be aware of. Like if your childhood was tough, you might be drawn naturally to bad situations. And that's like the whole like breaking the cycles thing that people talk about. And it's hard to do.

But obviously, I mean, Hernandez's story is a good example of why it's necessary. necessary. So, you know, some people speculate like maybe this world feels more real in the NFL. He's hanging with these, like, rich dudes that all are making money. Maybe it's because they feel like these are authentic relationships. Maybe it's because, like, the violence is familiar to him. Whatever the reason, he can't leave the old life behind. And this is the first incident in Aaron's story that really kind of makes headlines. So July 16th, 2012, Aaron is out of Boston nightclub called Cure. And it was, kind of a typical night out for like a young NFL All-Star, right? He's got drinks, VIP treatment, the whole deal. But this is when Aaron encounters Daniel Diabru and Sefero Furtado. These are two young men who had immigrated from Cape Verde and they were just there celebrating. They had no connection to Aaron and no reason to be on his radar in any capacity. They're just two guys having a good time at a nightclub. But according to what prosecutors would later argue in court, Diabru, accidentally bumped into Aaron. while dancing and some drinks got spilled. Now most people in the situation, I mean, Alex, you correct me if I'm wrong, what would you do?

If you're at a bar, you got a table, someone bumps into you. How would that interaction go? What would you do? That would be normal. Just be like, I mean, if I spelled it, it's just like, yeah, sorry, bro.

And then if someone spills on you, maybe give them a look, like, get the fuck out of here, but aside from that. You'd be a little pissed and then things would go on. Maybe a little annoyed, depending on how they, react right right at most like annoyed and then maybe if they escalate you're like into some

type of confrontation again then gets broken up so Aaron doesn't doesn't forget about it instead he becomes fixated on what he sees his disrespect in his mind these two strangers had somehow wronged him and that can't be allowed to stand and this is where you can kind of see like some of the lessons from his childhood where it's like violence is a normal response to you know disrespect and this is still driving him psychologically. So Aaron leaves the club, but he doesn't go home. Instead, he gets his gun and he waits. And when Diabru and Frito leave the club and get in their car, Aaron follows them, track them through Boston streets until they stopped at a red light in the South End neighborhood. Then Aaron pulled up beside their car and opened fire. He shot both men multiple

times, killing them instantly. So, you know, these guys were basically murdered because they had spilled a drink on a guy at a nightclub. I don't know how if that's the reason that he killed someone, like, how does this guy not have like 50 bodies? Right. Like 500. Or maybe it's just drinking? I mean, I have no idea.

I would be, again, I don't. That is a crazy reason. Yeah, I don't know. Even throw hands, right? Yeah, I mean, yeah, you have to be like fully psycho to be like, yeah, I'm going to fight over this. Like, getting in a fight sucks. And I know because I've never been in a fight.

But I do know. that it is avoid them at all cost I truly do I had friends that I would hang with like especially back in the day like from home that like would love to fight yeah and I would always hang with them because like they were funny but then they would get shit face and then try to fight people and then I was constantly breaking up fights and I was like this is so dumb yeah like this they're like you'd wake up the next morning just be like fucking have a black eye I'm like yeah dude by fuck them up yeah like you're fucked up for what like what like what was the point of this and fortunately no one I knew would take it this

far. I also would be skeptical if alcohol is the only thing involved. No, for sure, but you know, I also don't understand, like, maybe it's different nowadays. Like, do NFL players of that caliber not have, I don't know, I feel like once you're that on the map, you're just like constantly worried there's going to be people who know who you are, like taking pictures of you. Even just, even a fight, you're like, oh, this could risk my NFL career. Right, exactly. Like, if I get in a fight with this guy and he gets permanently injured, like, Like my career is on line, much less, I mean, tracking them down. This is also like there's a premeditation here that's also like.

Psycho. Really, really strange. So after the shooting, Aaron drives away and went on with his life like nothing had ever happened. He didn't confess to anyone, no signs of guilt or remorse. He just went back to being an NFL player. And here's the part that kind of shows Aaron's mindset. A month later, August 27th, 2012, he signs a five-year $40 million contract extension with the Patriots. So think about that.

He commits double murder and then literally like a month later gets a $40 million payday. And he literally, you know, goes from, you know, being like one of the most successful tight ends in the NFL at the time

to like killing two virtually innocent people. So while the families of Diabrew and Furtado are still grieving, the Boston police are investigating the murder and Aaron was celebrating this contract extension. At the Patriots press conference to announce the new deal, Aaron is smiling for the cameras,

talked about his excitement to be in New England and thanked the organization for believing him, yada, yada, yada. I would love to see the pictures of him at the contract extension because it is sort of chilling. That would be so. It is chilling. Right? To be like, yo, this guy just like... Like, imagine like your family got murdered by this dude

and you're just like, this guy's just celebrating just like having a good time. Like, it's like, it's very strange. Like, even I like watch true crime documentaries. I'm like, yeah, people that kill people, like, don't just like pretend like it never had. happen like there's some type of cover-ups they get anxious there's like nervousness yada yada yada so at the press conference he's doing his thing and he's able to sort of compartmentalize things

that are happening to him in a very strange way right like it's it's not just like keeping different parts of your life separate this is like two almost like different identities there's like a psychological thing happening here that i think is fascinating but like he's violent and paranoid and dangerous but also able to just be like charming and hardworking a family man and like you know, be a good dad. Remember football plays. Yeah, yeah, literally. So, and he's able to kind of like switch between these things, but obviously this double life comes at a cost and that cost is a constant paranoia, right? He had to be controlling of who knows what, you know, the, who can be trusted and he's living

in constant fear that people are going to discover him or investigate. Or he's not. I don't know. Like, maybe he's just a psycho. Yeah, I guess. I don't, I don't know how you do that. I, like, murder people and then just show up to a news conference, go to football practice. It's like, it's insane to me. I would, I wouldn't be able, I would be paralyzed by fear and fear of people finding out. Well, I think, even if I had no remorse, I would be terror. Like, I just can't imagine it. Yeah.

And I think the paranoia thing does play a role, as we'll find in a second. But yeah, I think even for like the most psychopathic people, there's like, oh, I don't want to go away forever. Right. You know what I mean? And so, like, that is like, and especially for him, like, he has so much. much to lose. So by 2013, he has this paranoia kind of growing and, you know, he doesn't know who he can talk to and who he can trust. And this is where, you know, there is the Odin Lloyd situation. This is the case that basically brings everything down. So to understand how this happens,

you need to understand Odin Lloyd. He's a 27-year-old and just a few months older than Aaron and he plays semi-professional football for a team called the Boston Bandits. No, this wasn't the NFL. And a lot of these guys like have jobs or are trainers or coaches and they play football basically like on the weekends because they love playing football. And he comes into Aaron's life because he's dating Shania Jenkins. And Shania happened to be the sister of Aaron's fiancee, Shana Jenkins. So when Aaron and Shiana gets serious, Odin basically becomes a part of the extended family. Can you pronounce the sister's names again? Yes, Shania and Shiana. Got it. I mean, that's a, that's a sick little time.

You're pretty good with your pronunciation. Shania and Shiana. Yes. Got it. Mom had a field day with those. You know what I mean? I mean, I wonder, it'd be like good twin names. You know what I mean?

Like, I like when twin names rhyme. Like, we had two twins in my high school. Yeah. Lamar and Jabar. I love that. And I was like, oh, this is great. And they were identical twins. And if you messed up one of their names because you didn't, you know, remember, like,

who was who? They'd just kind of roll with it. They'd be like, yeah, sure. What do you want to know? Yeah. It was great. I had a girl named Jasmine in my high school. No way.

Her mom said the name Jasmine wasn't interesting enough. So just switch the E to an eye. I'm like, fuck. I love that. You ever see anagram names? I know a couple people whose names are just like brand new anagrams of like the grandma's name. Like what? Oh, no, but that's kind of cool.

And like they'll just like switch it all around. It's very funny. So basically from Odin's perspective, you know, he's sent me for a football player. he's seeing this guy's like extended family and it's a cool connection right he's like a regular guy who all of a sudden has like this NFL player is basically a brother-in-law and Odin a lot of ways kind of looks up to Aaron and was genuinely impressed by his lifestyle

right he's got like cars success he's playing with Tom Brady and he basically represents like what can happen if you work hard and are talented enough right and Aaron seems like Odin you know they'd hang out Aaron would bring Odin to parties and clubs and for someone like Odin who worked a regular job and played seven pro football, getting this experience is like pretty awesome, you know? And so it's like, yeah, from the outside, they're their homies. But in Aaron's mind, he's thinking about the situation

a little differently, right? Remember, this is the same dude that basically just committed a secret double murder like a few months before. And every day he wakes up knowing that he killed two people and knowing that if this secret gets out or if anyone ever knows or if there's any evidence, he's gone forever. So he's constantly worried about who knows what's going on and this paranoia is brewing. So this is what. the story gets a little deeper. Prosecutors believed that Odin had somehow learned information about Aaron's involvement in the 2012 murders.

Maybe Aaron had said something he shouldn't have or he overhears a conversation. Maybe he saw something that didn't make sense at the time. He sees a weapon. Who knows? And we'll never know exactly what goes down. But something made Aaron believe that Odin knew too much. Probably nothing, if I had to guess. I mean, knowing.

He got a side stare one day. Yeah, he was like, dude, that's it. So June 14th, Aaron and Odin go to rumor nightclub in Boston. This was one of those upscale places, NFL players, other celebrities, they go to kick it. Aaron is a regular there, and bringing Odin along is just a normal friend thing to do. But according to witnesses, something goes wrong that night. Aaron is pissed at Odin during the evening. And at some point, storms out of the club.

People notice because it seems like a big overreaction to whatever is happening. Prosecutors later suggest that Aaron might have been angry because Oden's, spoke with people at the club who are connected to the murder victims in 2012. Maybe Odin mentions Aaron's name in the wrong context. Maybe he asks questions that makes Aaron a little nervous. Whatever happens, it convinced Aaron that Odin was becoming a problem. Three days later, June 17th, Aaron has a plan. Around 1 a.m., he picks up Odin along with two associates, Carlos Ortiz and Ernest Wallace.

These were guys from Aaron's past, people who would help him out with whatever needed to get done. Aaron told Aaron or told Odin that they're just going for a ride. I'm just going to go hang out. Go kick it. Get into something. Odin had no reason to be suspicious. You know, this is basically family to me. So he gets in the car thinking that they're just going to have a good time and fuck around.

They drive to an industrial park in North Attleboro, Massachusetts, about a mile from Aaron's home. This is like a desolate area warehouse is kind of like a like a, like a basically just like a shipping district. And there's, you know, businesses that would basically be around just completely empty in the middle of. night, the perfect place for what Aaron had in mind. So by 3.23 a.m. Odin sent what would be his last text message. He texts his sister. Did you see who I'm with? Think about that message for a second, right? Odin was starting to get nervous about the situation. Maybe something about Aaron's behavior is making him uncomfortable. I can imagine if you're plotting to kill someone, the energy is going to be a little weird. Or maybe you just wanted, you know, the sister to know he's hanging with someone

someone famous. Two minutes later at 3.25 a.m. workers at a nearby business hear multiple gunshots in rapid succession and then silence. Aaron had basically just executed someone who was virtually family, someone who was extremely close and just leaves his body in an industrial park. He drove home after the murder and immediately went into cover-up mode. He attempted to destroy his home security system. He smashed his cell phone into pieces to destroy any messages. He hired professional cleaners, to come scrub his house, and in his mind, like, dude, I did it. I got away. So the next morning, his body is discovered by a jogger.

This is Odin, of course. And it was revealed that he had been shot multiple times with a 45 caliber pistol. And at this point, Aaron makes a crucial mistake. He underestimates how much evidence modern police could actually uncover even when you think you cover everything out perfectly. And I think this is important to even underline

because this is different than the two, the double homicide that happened earlier. Those are just random dudes, no connection that he pulls up on drive-by style, kills him. This is a dude that he knows that he's intimately connected with, that people are aware that they're hanging out. A mile from your house.

A mile from your house. And then hiring a clean, like, extremely sloppy. So the investigation that followed would uncover a mountain of evidence that Aaron didn't even realize was even going to be connected. And it would, you know, connect him not only to Odin's murder,

but also the double murder from 2012 that he had gotten away with. And he officially has flown too close to the sun. I mean, imagine, like, you kill two people and basically get away with it. Like, I don't know if there would ever be any connection to him, like, had he not continued this type of lifestyle. But, of course, people that do erratic

and unexplainable things typically will get caught. So when his body's discovered, police didn't look too far to find their first suspect, right? The connection is, like, pretty obvious. You have... And the test. Yeah, which I still, I would love to know what the interaction was like the two hours before. Right? Like, I wonder what that energy is. I can't imagine it's good personally.

But did you see who I am with? That seems like a like bragging like, oh, ha ha, like so sick. I'm hanging out with Aaron Hernandez. Yeah. I was like, how are you that rich and you know higher hit, man? It's like the whole thing. It's just like, again, I wonder if in his mind it's like, oh, I'm, I can handle my own business. I can handle myself. And on top of that, I don't want to implicate some random hitman. But if he also has two dudes that are basically doing... Or he just doesn't... Maybe he didn't care

about getting caught. That's a sloppiest shit I've ever heard. Mile from your house. Okay. A relative. So scroll up a little bit here. So this is coming from Fox Sports. It says,

the messages were displayed on Hernandez's Blackberry cell phone and that were shown to the jury. Two messages were sent from Hernandez's phone to one belonging to Ernest Wallace, one of the men allegedly with the former New England Patriots.

its tight end. The first message at 245 says, you grab everything out of the car, clip and CDs and everything. The second sent at 139 a.m. That says, Love you. Fuck.

I wanted to kill you, but you know I love you. Hit me tomorrow, get some rest, and tell the rest I love them. What? So that's the one that he sent to his associate,

not to Odin. I don't believe. Can you kill his associate, too? No, no, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. I wanted to kill you So this is two

Unscroll down please And so this is two messages That were sent to a phone One belonging to Ernest Wallace Jr. Yeah so I'm assuming that he's messaging his boy That I wanted to kill you Love you Fuck I wanted to kill you

I'm assuming that they had some type of disagreement Or something that happened And he was like Yo that shit was a little hairy But we're good Hey you tomorrow. It's so crazy. So prosecutors have alleged that Lloyd was killed with a Glock.

Yeah, this is interesting. So basically, you know, the bodies discovered and they understand the relationship. And police knew that Aaron and Odin hadn't been spending time together. So Aaron was going to be questioned basically no matter what. But what started as routine questioning quickly becomes much more serious once the investigators started to uncover evidence. and the first breakthrough comes from Aaron's home security system, the one that he attempted to destroy.

The footage showed Aaron leaving his house on June 17th carrying what appeared to be a gun, but later footage showed him returning to the house without a weapon. Aaron had destroyed the security system after the murder, thinking that he eliminated the evidence, but he made a mistake because he didn't realize the police could recover

the footage from the systems even after they had been destroyed. Can you actually pull up that link of the home surveillance footage. So they actually, the prosecutors actually show the surveillance video of Hernandez inside from his home security system. Next day, surveillance shows Hernandez

greeting her when she came to babysit the night before Lloyd's murder. Video shows him light up and take a drag in the driveway before leaving. While he was gone with his fiancé, his two alleged accomplices into his home at midnight. Erness Wallace and Carlos Ortiz.

When Hernandez returned, he walked right by with what looks like it could be a gun. Minutes later, he was picking up his daughter, and after that affectionate moment, he and his two accomplices left in a silver Nissan rental. Crazy. About two hours later, Odin Lord. Those are his cameras, too. Yeah. And I don't know what type of oversight went into this.

If he was like, oh, if I destroy the camera, there's no video. I don't even understand. Like, I'm assuming that there's like some type of like central system or all the video gets uploaded through Wi-Fi or something. But that's like just really dumb. Did he plead guilty? We're not there yet. We're going to get to that. Okay.

Well, you don't have to log it up yet. So the second piece of evidence that happens, that kind of shows things, involves the car that Aaron had used that night. He hadn't used his own vehicle because that would have been obviously. That would have been dumb. You know what I mean? You can't use your own vehicle. That's stupid people behavior. Instead, he had rented a Nissan Ultima from a local enterprise dealership.

So again, Aaron once again underestimates how many securities cameras exist in a place like Boston, so police find the footage of the Silver Ultima on multiple cameras throughout the night, and they were able to track its entire route from Aaron's house to the industrial park where Odin was killed. The car was captured on camera, basically showing a clear timeline of the movements. Even more damaging, the rental car contained gunshot residue in the vehicle, and other trace evidence that connected to Odin's murder. So you cleaned your whole house, but not the car that you rented to do the crime. The third piece of evidence...

Probably in his own name. Yeah, probably. And the third piece of evidence is maybe the most absurd. At the murder scene, police found a piece of bubble gum stuck to a shell casing from the gun used to kill Odin. When they tested the gum, it had Aaron Hernandez's DNA. So that's... I mean, that's about as close you can get. I mean, that's like, like, yeah, you're fucked.

And this is the part that kind of shows how thorough this investigation was. Police were able to prove that Aaron had purchased the exact type of gum. I'm saying gum here, not a weapon, literally like fucking five gum or any other brand. I don't know if they want to be associated with this. Earlier in that day, they had receipts, security camera footage from the store, everything. So not only did Aaron's DNA place him at the murder scene, they could also prove that he had bought the exact type of gum that ended up. at the murder scene. So he was, you know, shot a guy, spit the gum out.

And it's a detail that fortunately the police were actually able to, you know, to get. The fourth piece of evidence, as if this is not compelling enough for you, I know you're probably still on the fence. You're like, maybe he didn't do it. Yeah, maybe. Well. I feel bad for him, man. He's a tough childhood, dude. Yeah, now you start to feel a little bit less bad.

You're like, what the fuck? Now I am. But who knows? Maybe he's still innocent. You know, the DNA is there. same weapons, same gun. But then the footprints. Police find shoe impressions at the murder scene

and they were able to match them to the boots that Aaron was wearing that night. And how did they know what boots he was wearing from the same security camera footage that he had destroyed that showed him allegedly having a gun. He did not watch Forensic files grown up. At all, right?

This is like the most obvious stuff. There are cameras everywhere. Your own cameras. You have like, you're spitting out DNA at the scene. Yeah. You watch... You go on days you find. fucking murder people. Everyone knows this.

Don't even smoke cigarettes. You put them in your pocket when you're done with them. It's just like, dude, what the hell? So the footprint evidence wasn't particularly damaging because it placed Aaron at the exact, or it was particularly damaging because it places Aaron at the exact spot. So he's not just in the general area. He's right there where the triggers pulled with the cameras, with the gum. And the fifth major piece of evidence comes from his cell phone. Remember, Aaron had smashed his phone into pieces after the murder, which is obviously going to destroy any evidence, except the police. were able to uncover the text messages almost immediately between Aaron and his associates that we had mentioned before. So the messages show them planning to meet up with Odin on the night he was killed, as well as text between Aaron and Odin setting up their meeting, and the phone records created a timeline of how this murder was actually organized. What's up, guys?

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And let's get back to the show. Aaron gets arrested, June 26, 2013. New England Patriots release Aaron exactly 90 minutes after the arrest. An hour and a half. The Patriots hear about what happened. I'm sure they have some sort of like police sergeant that's like, yeah, it's not looking good for your boy. And immediately they're like, out of here. So they didn't even wait to see about the charges.

They just immediately cut them loose. which I wonder if that indicates anything internal where they're like, oh, I could obviously see this. What's happened with Antonio Brown a bunch of times, right? In a little way. Oh, yeah. But just like for like you're being crazy. Like you're not a criminal, but like you're just being a psychopath.

Yeah, you're being belligerent. Right. We don't want you. We don't want you, you know, jet. But something like this, I would just, run in your mouth. I would presume it'd be like, all right, well, let's just wait till he's convicted. Let's just see the charges.

I wonder if they had a guy on the inside being like, yeah, we found gum. I mean, yeah, the cop just like, hey, you know, released. By the way, the DNA was found, footprints were found. Also, we think we have security camera footage of him with the same weapon. Yeah, and like the whole movement's tracked and his phone. Like, I don't know. I'm cutting him loose.

And it, yeah, right? So you also have to keep in mind, he just had gotten a $40 million extension earlier that year. He's one of like their best key offensive players. And, you know, he was like a part of like the team system. So he's immediately cut loose and, you know, this is basically a career-ending release before most people even knew that he was arrested. And the trial didn't begin until over a year later, January 9th, 2015, and it became like just a media. Start of the NFL playoffs. Oh, really?

Basically, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy. Also real quick. Yeah. It's important to place the context of the Patriots are in the middle of their dynasty. Bill Belichick and Tom Brady are gods in New York. So the fact that not a single cop told them what was going on.

You have a TV in his jail cell? Probably. Probably. You get to watch the Pats games? Yeah, I'm sure a cop or an investigator, like, gave them a tip. Like, yeah, this is terrible for the record, like, safe face for the organization. And these cops are all Pats fans. I mean, murder is different than like, you know, I feel like a lot of NBA players recently.

Like Zion even this summer, I think, right? Like, but it's civil. Some girl wants money, possibly sexual assault. Right. But they're not, you're not releasing somebody. Yeah. I mean, murder is just. Yeah, it's a different level.

I think it's less the charges. It's more just the compelling, overwhelming evidence that they were able to gather almost immediately. Or they were just like, yeah, he did it. Like, we've heard the rumors like, yeah, he's probably going to be guilty. Let's just get rid of him. Right. I don't know.

The whole thing's crazy. I watch so much forensic files. I feel like I've never seen him more. black and white case. It's like, this can't even make a forensic file's episode. He's so fucking stupid. Yeah, it would be a 10 minute episode. He'd be like, well, all right, it's him. I mean, also being on his defense team would be so stressful.

You'd have to be like, look, someone else, he kissed a guy. The guy had the gum in his mouth. He spit that guy is the real one that did it. And yeah, so he goes to trial, January 9th. And his behavior during the trial is pretty strange. He would like smirk at the camera. He was like kind of goofing off with his lawyers. And he kind of seemed disconnected from every.

everything that was going on around him. That pisses me off. Like your life is going to be done. You know what I mean? And also like, again, you got to think like, I'm so curious what it does even to his family. It's like, dude, you killed like your brother-in-law. Like his wife is like, this is, this guy is like in my family. Like my sister loves this dude.

I would love to know what she says about him now. I, that is actually a great question. Wait, could you remind me, was it Shania or Shoy Naya? I think she's Shia Anna. I think that's his wife. We should double check that. It's always crazy to me how you can be married and these people have no idea. Yeah.

It's how fucking psycho their boyfriend is. This is husband, right? They were married. This is what's interesting. So according to Chad Chhabit, there have been some things over the years that have kind of changed. So allegedly, according to Chatshivati, it says that she maintains his innocence saying he was full of life, sweet, lovable, would do anything for anyone. He's a love of my life. And I want him to be known for what he is rather than what people are speculating.

I don't know when that was said in the things here. And then additionally said, you know, talking about like his mental health, she says, I thought it was a hoax that this was some cruel person playing a trick on me. We were, you know, we were looking so bright going up a ladder in a positive direction. It was crazy seeing him grab his baby like on that surveillance photo. Yeah, but like smiling. You look happy. I mean, granted, it's a grainy security video.

You see this so often, though, with like, monitoring. guys, right? It's like, oh, they just killed a guy that night. Then they're like at like a, you know, turkey cookout the next day, like for Thanksgiving, like shaking people's hands and saying hi and hanging with their kids. Like, there's a real compartmentalization that happens, I'm assuming. And I bet you in his mind, he's like, this guy's got to go because he's going to leak my secret, which is going to destroy my family. So he's like, I'm actually doing this for my family. Like, I think that's part of the psychology that goes into the mind of these people that commit crimes and then still are like loving fathers and husbands. Like, I'm doing this for them. So,

People are commenting on his behavior saying, like, this is pretty strange. And legal experts said that Aaron's courtroom demeanor was damaging to the case. Juries don't like defendants that are arrogant or unconcerned. And Aaron comes across to someone that's just like above the law. Like, yeah, I've done shit before and nothing's ever happened. I'm sure this is fine. The prosecution methodically presented their evidence over several weeks and security footage, the rental car, DNA, footprint, cell phones.

And they basically lay everything out piece by piece. and they build a case that seems pretty impossible to really refute. So Aaron's defense team tries to create reasonable doubt, but they're fighting against this overwhelming mountain of evidence. So by April 7th, both sides present their closing arguments, and the case goes to the jury. They deliberate for 36 hours over three days, and the jury reaches their verdict that Aaron Hernandez is guilty of first-degree murder.

So in Massachusetts, that carries a mandatory, sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole, and at 25 years old, Aaron throws away everything. NFL career, family, freedom, and will never get out of prison. But again, we know about, in hindsight, the totality of his criminal behavior, and this is just the beginning. Aaron is convicted of murder, but the prosecutors believe that his crimes go far beyond. And the investigation had revealed that Aaron was connected to the 2012 shooting, and, you know, the prosecutors finally believe that they had enough evidence to prove Aaron was responsible for those killings as well and to put them on trial again. So this double trial murder, or this double murder trial, rather,

has been kind of brewing in the background for a lot of these investigators. But this trial is different from the Oden Lloyd case because the evidence isn't as overwhelming. The witnesses are not as reliable, and Aaron's defense team is able to create reasonable doubt. The prosecution's case relied heavily on the testimony of Alexander Bradley, Aaron's former friend who claimed that Aaron had also shot him in a separate incident in Florida. I believe it.

So people question, they question his credibility. He's testifying in exchange for immunity because, you know, he had initially lied to police about what had happened. So Aaron's lawyers were able to attack his credibility suggesting that he was just trying to get revenge

against Aaron by blaming him for crimes that he didn't commit. So by April 14th, After weeks of testimony, the jury finds Aaron not guilty of double murder and was convicted on a single charge of illegal gun possession. But that is not what the prosecutors were hoping for. So for a few hours, it looked like Aaron might have finally caught a break, right? Yes, he's still serving life without parole. But his lawyers were talking about appeals and already talking about, you know, trying to

get into like acquittals that would mean he's not facing additional charges. and then he would eventually get released from prison if he's able to go on parole at some point. But then, just five days later, on April 19th, at 3 a.m., guards are making their rounds, and they find Aaron had killed himself in his prison cell hanging from a bed sheet and was pronounced dead at UMass Memorial Hospital shortly thereafter.

And his death is bizarre and disturbing in ways that went beyond just the act itself. So when guards found him, he had written John 316. What is John 316? This is a verse from the New Testament in the Bible that says, For God so love the world that he gives one and only son so that we may not perish but have eternal life. Damn, you just recite that off the bat? Come on, dude, I'm a Catholic, bro.

I was raised. I was raised. I was raised very religious. Holy, my church, or are we talking about Aaron Hernandez? Imagine that's not at all what it says. Like, whoops. For God so loved in the world that he gave his only son. What?

Yeah. And if you can search, John 316, Tim Tebow. There's a interesting revelation, I think, here as well. I don't know if this is necessarily the case, but if you can go to images real quick. But he would have this on his eye black while he would play. So that's super weird, too. So I don't know if you can connect it, but I wonder if, you know, this played some type of impact on him. How popular reverse is that?

Tremendously popular. So amongst, like, the, you know, Christian coalition in the United States. States. It's like, we talk in top five. Oh, that's easy top five. Is that the goat? Like the LeBron James of the Bible? Might be the goat. To be honest with you, like Philippians 413 will be up there. Okay. No, for I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength. Right. Like that's up there for sure. All things through God, rather. But yeah, I mean, that's a goaded verse for sure.

So he writes this on his forehead and his blood, and that's not all. He'd also made strange references to the Illuminati on his cell wall. He drew pyramids in the all-seeing eye. And below the pyramid, he wrote Illuminati in capital letters and above the pyramid he drew an oval with rays coming from the edges. There were also letters to his family found. He wrote that he was entering into the timeless realm and that he would see them in heaven. It's sort of heartbreaking, right? You've got to think like his wife and daughter, kind of read that. Aaron's lawyers said that, you know, they had never seen any signs that he was suicidal. Jose Baez. His lead attorney said that Aaron had seemed hopeful about his appeals and was looking forward to spending time with his daughter and that this you know, sort of tragic end

that kind of came out of nowhere. But then something wild happened because Aaron died before his appeals could be heard. Massachusetts law required that his murder conviction be erased. It's called abatement ab initio. And it's an old legal principle that says if you die before your appeals process is complete, your conviction is ultimately vacated.

So legally speaking, Aaron Hernandez, upon his death, was an innocent man. It's the most fucked up, I mean, I guess it doesn't really matter, but like, I don't know. Pretty wild, right? So despite the overwhelming evidence that he's a killer, his conviction is a race in the records as if this media circus trial had never actually happened.

Then Aaron's family made a crucial decision that would change how he, how we basically understand his whole story. They donated his brain to the Boston University Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy Center for research. And this is, you know, not unusual because many families of former football players have made similar donations to help scientists understand the long-term effects of playing the sport and basically what CTE does to the brain. But Aaron's was different because of his age and the pristine condition of his brain. So Dr. Anne McKee, who's the head of Boston University's CTE Center, had studied hundreds of brains from former football players. But she found that Aaron had stage three CTE, the most severe cancer.

case Dr. McKee had ever seen in someone so young. So to put in perspective, previous cases with similar damage have been found only in people who were at least 46 and had played a long time in the NFL. Was it from football? I mean, that's a question, or was it from this guy being in fights? Also, I would say almost certainly football. Just from football? It's just like, especially in this time, I think they had different helmets.

I think they've actually updated them because of a lot of the CT research. You know, but 46. Yeah. And basically it's just like from my... Microt traumas that happen to your brain through just chronic hits. And it creates literally just like a Swiss cheese in your brain. It's this chronic traumatic encephalization of the brain tissue. Are you tried together in a double murder?

Like are both the cases tried together? Like if two people murder someone, like because his murder conviction was erased, his like his partners in the crime of killing Odin, I assume they're still fucked. I don't know. I don't know. That's a good question. I actually have no idea because I don't know if I'm assuming, I mean, their trials are separate

I'm assuming that they're... Oh, you have separate. I'm assuming that their appeal process is also separate. Because they're probably going to say, like, I didn't murder anyone. Like, I was with this guy. That'd be my defense. I didn't know what was going to happen.

Aaron Hernandez. He has his personal beef with this dude. He kills this guy. Yada, yada. So, the damage to Aaron's brain is pretty severe. His frontal lobe, which controls, obviously, you know, decision-making, impulse, judgment is severely damaged.

and this is the part of the brain that ultimately makes us human. You know, this frontal cortex that actually like elevates us and many people would say like actually gives us consciousness. This is why girl should date comedians and not football players.

Yeah, that's a different type of trauma. You know what I mean? It's not head trauma, but an emotional trauma that's, you know, far ranging. But yes, date a comedian. So it seems like his brain, like literally this encephalization of the brain

is like literally causing his brain to shrink. And there's large holes basically found in the, the brain tissue and Dr. McKee showed images of Aaron's brain next to a normal brain for someone his age. I would actually love to see what those images look like. I would love to as well. The differences are pretty shocking where a healthy brain should have been, you know, white intact. His brain is, you know, literally traumatized and has, you know, damage and scar tissue.

Why? Is this hockey, too? Or just UFC football? I've actually heard different things about different sports. And again, I'm not an expert. There's actually a great documentary that covers a lot of this. But yeah, basically any sport with like chronic, chronic head trauma, like repeat head trauma. So it's not necessarily only the big hits, of course, those cause head trauma where someone goes in like a fencing pose and actually is, you know, concussed. But it's just like a little hit that's a pretty inconsequential tackle. You're like, oh, that's a whatever tackle. But they put their head directly into some guy's chest. And yeah, you're going to have like a microconcussion. And you get 10 of those a game over, you know, however many, you know, 15, 20 games a year.

for five years. Right. That's only the NFL. That's not even counting potentially high school, Pop Warner. As soon as you start playing tackle ball. So, it seems like his brain is severely damaged,

you know, where, you know, a healthy brain would not look this way. His brain literally has, like, but could that also have been from his dad being, I don't know. There's so many questions. It's possible.

I mean, it certainly doesn't help, like the psyche. But I would assume that for CTE, it's going to require repeat impact. and like repeat like smaller impacts over time, which is possible. I mean, I can't imagine that it helps.

So Dr. McKee found a tau protein deposit throughout his brain, which is the main proponent of CT. She also found signs of previous small hemorrhages from impacts, these tiny brain bleeds that accumulate over years of playing football. He's been playing football since he was eight years old. I mean, he's been taking some version of head contact for two decades. You know, so even though he only had, had like two documented concussions, scientists believe that he suffered many more sub-concussive hits.

And CT isn't just like the big hits like we were saying. It's like, you know, thousands of these smaller impacts. And people that have CT, they will typically, you know, exhibit like aggression, depression, depression, paranoia, poor decision-making. Makes sense. All the things that we saw. That all just checks out. All the things that we saw Aaron basically do prior to his death. Because he did seem paranoid, right? He's paranoid his, what? brother-in-law is going to snitch on him about a murder. Yeah, and then even the stuff that he's writing in his jail cell is like, you know,

psychotic. Like, he's talking about the Illuminati. Like, who even knows what all that's about. So looking back on his life through the CTE lens, things kind of start to make a lot more sense, you know? Like, even like his temperate Florida and the paranoia and the disrespect and his inability to control himself. And again, this doesn't excuse his crimes, right? Like Odin Lloyd is still dead and their families are still grieving. but it does kind of give an insight into how someone with so much to lose would just, you know, make so many catastrophically bad decisions in a row.

Could we, could we pull up a clip of him? Just like, I'm very curious now. I haven't heard his voice since so long. Yeah. Like, what is he like at a press interview? Does he come across as normal or is he a little, you know? Yeah, I mean, I mean, we should pull up a video, but my assumption. Some NFL players seem a little psycho and then others are super articulate and like, it's like.

Yeah. I would assume it's a, yeah, I would love to watch this. Pull that up. It's kind of nice to get out of the cold weather for a little bit, but regardless of what we played, we got to come to play, and I'm excited about the game regardless. Is it nice to get in the bubble today instead of out of the cold here? Well, it was, but regardless, it's going to be a hard practice, so you got to get your mindset. Damn, look at that smile.

It was nice to be in the bubble. Nice, handsome dude. Got a little sweat in there. It got some heat, so we could be prepared for Miami, but it was a good practice. Was it? I'm less confidential. Did you hear what the question was? I'm just glad to be

unless confidential. Go back. It was a good present. Grank it up? Was it? None. That's confidential. I mean... Gardner, seems super normal. In fairness, I actually know a few people that I think have...

I know a few people that I think have had CTE that have had... Does it go away? No. No. I mean, some people are... They're looking into seeing it. there's a way to actually regrow the brain tissue, but it doesn't seem like, from my knowledge,

if there's actual treatment for it. But I knew a person who had committed suicide that was a former D1 football player that played many years, I think actually played in the league for a little bit. And the family had suspected that it was CT. And in all the time that I knew him was just like a regular affable guy.

I mean, look at that smile. Yeah, just like... Could you go back down to the comments? Sorry. Yeah. No one says exactly. No one is even talking about murder. He was so damn fine.

Well, there you go. Women do love things. There we go. Beautiful, talented success. Yeah, it's crazy to me. I feel like so many Forensic Files episodes, like, a guy commits crime, meets his wife while he's in prison. They, like, write to him.

I mean, how often, I mean, dude, Ted Bundy proposed to his wife on the stand. That's crazy. Like, while he's facing, like, the trial. That's, like, real bad boy vibes. Oh, it's insane. I mean, some people, because I think Ted Bundy, represented himself and basically did that in order to like try to appeal to the jury like you're not going to sentence me on the you know on my engagement day yeah that guy mr m in the chat he he

summed it up perfect hard to believe that dude killed three people so chill and relaxed right what's his name dj mj g has a long name LLC 7701 yeah it's an LLC you know it's small business Shout out. Small business. Respect. So yeah, looking back on his life through that lens is pretty chilling. Chris, did you have something you wanted to throw in? Yeah, apparently because he committed suicide, he was still eligible for benefits for his kids. Is one thing people are saying.

What benefits? Like from the league? From the league. Interesting. So had he been in prison... Had he been convicted? But I thought he was convicted of first-degree murder. But then in the appeals process, you mean?

No, I can be wrong. That's interesting, though. I wonder if it's because, like, oh, your contract is cut short, you're in breach of contract because you're a convicted felon. Like, your family is not entitled to any of the compensation, but if he dies, then they are entitled to some type of, like, you know, player pension or something like that. I wonder if that's the case.

That'd be worth a... But also, like, I mean, maybe not. I mean, I assume his wife is... rich, right? He was making good money. I assume he didn't get the full 40. But yeah, they're... That would be psycho. But they're probably good forever. I mean, I imagine. Again, I don't know what they're spending habits for.

I want to click on that one? So because he was appealing the conviction, did he know about the law? Like, oh, if you die, you're going to be innocent? But then what is... Maybe his lawyer told him. What are his kids entitled to? Maybe his lawyer told him. So, basically, to Christos's point, Some people believe, basically with this abatement nullification rule, that under the Massachusetts law at the time, if an individual died before exhausting their appeals, the conviction would be vacated.

And that rule applied to Hernandez because of the conviction, it's vacated because basically in his death, he's innocent. It's actually interesting because that nullification was reversed by the state Supreme Judicial Court in 2019, permanently restoring the conviction. but some believe that with his conviction vacated Hernandez's contracted $15 million guarantee from the Patriots would be payable to his estate potentially benefiting his daughter. However, the reinstatement of the conviction, the NFL's contract terms and legal rulings around the abatement nullified that, meaning that his family never received the money. Reports indicate that Hernandez set up a trust before his death, possibly to shelter assets, potentially around $9 million. The prosecutors argued in hearings that his suicide seemed deliberate aimed to benefit,

his family under the abatement rule. Again, it's sort of speculated. Some sources suggest that Hernandez wrote in his suicide note that you're, he basically said, you're rich, which prosecutors saw as hinting that he acted on financial motivation. What does that ESPN article say? Federal judge says a six-year-old and can't separately pursue a $20 million sue. Oh, they can't sue the NFL over CTE. Oh, yeah, that's a whole other thing.

But basically, like, people would think that the league should be on the hook regardless. So, again, this doesn't necessarily excuse him of his crimes, right? As we've said, but it does kind of show it in a different light. No, but I feel like it's that way with a lot of crimes. You end up feeling bad for a lot of people involved. I feel bad for his daughter, obviously. Yeah. Right?

I feel bad for his wife. I feel bad for him in many ways. He had a shitty life. Yeah, just kind of tragic all the way around. It's just tragic. You know? I'm actually curious what was the

what were some what was some of the evidence in this other case like the other two guys I wonder if the weapon is the same let me look here that would be beyond stupid maybe

I mean that would make sense like why can you link it after this first murder so with these other two guys the key prosecution witness was this guy Bradley that we talked about and basically said that

you know he had like a violent past There was nightclub surveillance. Separately police identified a silver Toyota forerunner that was allegedly Hernandez at the shooting scene. And detectives tied the same SUV to Hernandez via ownership during the trial. Investigators recovered a 38 caliber revolver from a vehicle connected to one of Hernandez's relatives. And the ballistic tests matched the revolver to the bullets used in the murder of Diabro and Frittato. And then bouncers and surviving friends provided graphic testimony. describing what had happened that, you know, there was bullets flying, people ducking, and then moments after the shooting, establishing this real-time event scenario.

They couldn't possibly identify Hernandez as the shooter, but they corroborated the elements of the crime. So they also highlighted procedural errors. So, for example, the bullet-riddled vehicle wasn't properly processed at the crime scene, which then led to contaminating evidence. So they concluded that there was reasonable doubt that Hernandez was the one that was guilty, therefore he was acquitted. But yeah, pretty tragic all the way around, to be honest with you. I guess, I don't know, I'm trying to think what are the lessons, right? Like if you see someone who's kind of struggling with this kind of stuff, like try to get them professional help. But Hernandez doesn't seem like someone that you could get help for.

I can't imagine. You'd be like, hey, go to a therapist. He'd be like, no. But I wonder if you could like convince him, like if there was like a family member, a really close friend being like, Like, hey, you know, your daughter, like, just do it for her. I mean, I watched that clip, and I just, like, wouldn't ever be able to pinpoint. Yeah, but I guess if you knew him well enough to know that he had, like, a violent history, you know what I mean? Like, these are not isolated in sense.

Like, if you're like, oh, hey, dude, you have, like, anger problems at the very least. He plays football. I don't know. That would check out. Yeah. But I don't know what the lesson is. Pretty tragic all the way around. But, I mean, yeah, I guess if you, you know, someone's a professional.

professional athlete that's getting head trauma and seems like they have anger issues, they should probably go get checked out for help. And then on top of that, you know, the parents here seem like they, uh, didn't. I mean, just no motive. Yeah. That's crazy to me. Yeah. Nothing. Yeah, I wonder if, like, I wonder how like the sexual abuse stuff came up. Like, I wonder if that was in like pre-trial, if that was like a rumor that someone had shared. But, uh, yeah, I mean, someone with like childhood trauma like that definitely needs to get professional help. I mean, I just think it's so rare. like maybe it's the type of content I see but like or like I watched a lot of crime shows but just murdering random people. Yeah. Wife opposing gang, guy who robs you like I don't know, right? You're trying to rob someone to actually get something. This is just that is like a rational criminal behavior though. Right. This is just full full blown psycho. But again this is just you know I think the CTE thing actually probably makes a lot of sense here that this is not someone behaving in a normal fashion. This is a mentally ill person that unfortunately caused a lot of damage and harm to not only the people around them, but people that came in contact with them.

But anyway, I'd love to know what you guys think. Please drop a comment below. If there's anything from this case that we had missed, I would love to know what you guys think. If you had never heard of this case before and you found this interesting, I would love to know what your thoughts are. Alex, thank you so much for joining me, brother. I appreciate it. This is fun. This is a wild story. And Christos, once again, thanks for just being on the ones and twos and just being on. a bench. Anyway, there's been an episode of camp. Appreciate y'all, and I'll see you guys next time in the tent. Peace. What's up, people? Quick announcement. If you are a fan of Camp Gagnon or Religion Camp, I have great news because we're dropping History Camp. That's right. This is

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