Camp Gagnon - The TRUTH John McAfee Took To His Grave - Janice McAfee Speaks Out

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

Janice McAfee joins us in the tent today to talk about John McAfee’s entire timeline of crazy events, how she met John, never-before-heard stories about their marriage, answers the question of who could have potentially killed John McAfee and other interesting topics... WELCOME TO Camp! 🏕️Shoutout to our sponsors:Relay, Morgan & Morgan, and BlueChewJoin the Relay App community HERE: http://www.joinrelay.app/camp👕🧢 GET YOUR CAMP DRIP HERE: http://camp-rd.com🎟️ 🎫 Comedy Tour Tickets Here: https://markgagnonlive.com🎩👽 Daily Dose Of History Here: https://www.dailytodayinhistory.comTimestamps:0:00 Intro1:35 John McAffee’s Early Life + Belief In God9:59 How Janice Met John14:30 Johns LSD Trip 18:45 Creating Anti Virus Software + Building Real Estate30:50 Why John Left America36:37 Government Harrasses John + Handing Out Spyware Computers 42:02 Johns Dogs Are Poisoned 46:17 Did John Have Concrete Evidence?47:52 Johns Enemies + Home Security50:40 Lies In John’s Documentary56:40 John’s Drug Use1:01:22 How John Escaped Belize1:08:14 First Time Meeting John1:18:12 Hidden Money Stacks1:22:51 Janice Escapes Her Pimp1:34:45 The Cartel Starts Stalking John1:55:20 Feeding Fake Information to Cartel1:58:50 John Hired His Own Enemies + Escaping Murder Plot2:29:16 Tasked to Kill John + Coming Clean to John2:30:08 Escaping Kidnapping Attempt2:42:00 Tweet Exposes Johns Location2:50:30 Insane Arguments w/ John2:59:17 Pimp Contacts Janice Again3:17:46 Traveling to Spain3:27:09 John’s Arrest3:36:40 The Death of John + Identifying Body3:41:59 Official Police Report + Hiding Autopsy Report3:48:54 Possibly The Real Story3:52:20 Receiving John's Body3:57:16 John’s ‘Whackd’ Tattoo3:58:34 John’s Deadman Switch3:54:44 Life After John4:07:47 The Legacy of John McAfee4:10:27 Janice’s Favorite Memory + John's Assets4:14:26 John McAfee’s Antivirus Project#podcast #horror #foryou #mystery #scary #crime

The official story is that he was overcome with grief and then killed himself in a cell. And everyone kind of accepted it and moved on. So if you had to put together as best as you could, what do you believe happened? John wasn't a quitter. He was a fighter. To the end. This is Janice McAfee, the former wife of the eccentric tech millionaire, John McAton. The man behind the antivirus software that made him a global name, made him a fortune,

and may have given him access to some of the most coveted information in the world. Janice was his partner through the chaos of his final years, and she remains one of the few people who can speak directly on what he was dealing with leading up to his untimely death in 2021, which has officially been ruled a suicide. Now the camera is facing John's cell. The guard is walking down the hallway and he's checking each cell. And when he gets to John's cell, his door is cracked open like this. I just think it's strange that all of the other cell doors were completely closed and John's was cracked open. That's strange. Since that day, McAfee's death has sparked endless theories involving organized crime, political pressure, intelligence agencies in his years in Central America. Some believe that he knew too much.

Others say that he was running from bad relationships back in Central America or demons that only he knew about. But no matter what you believe, the mystery around John McAfee has only grown. And today, who better to talk about the real genre than the woman who live closest to it. So if you were into true crime, conspiracy, and the life of one of the most unpredictable millionaires ever, this. is the episode for you. So, sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. Janice, how are you? I'm good, how are you?

I'm excellent. Thank you for flying all the way from lovely California, from the Bay Area to New York City just to chat with me. It means the world. Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me. Absolutely.

I'm excited to talk about the man, the myth, and the legend of John McAfee. Yeah. You were married to John, and you were in a relationship with John for about 11-ish years, 12 years, roughly? Not so long. What was the timeline of that?

We met in 2012 and he died in 2021, so about almost nine years. Okay, so about nine years. It certainly felt longer, for sure. Yeah, I can imagine that the last nine years of John's life, it was full speed ahead. I don't think that there were many days off. No. So, I mean, in that time, I mean, you guys lived a really, really fast. and just awesome life together, which I want to discuss kind of how you two met and how things

sort of evolved with you two and then ultimately your time in Spain when John passed away. And kind of going through and really clearing up the details behind his death, which the official story is sort of discussing as a suicide. But it seems, at least by your account, that that is not the case. And I think it would be obviously really important to go through all that. But in order to catch the audience up, because I think a lot of people, people have seen John McAfee. They're familiar with, you know, the antivirus software. I think there's a sort of cultural understanding of who this man was.

But if you're able to just kind of briefly take us sort of a little bit to the beginning of like, who is John, what was he, you know, like based off of what you learned from, you know, spending so much time with him as a person. How did he make his money? And, yeah, kind of lead us up to when he left, you know, this software side of his life. Okay, okay, perfect. So John was born in England. He had dual citizenship. His mother was British and his dad was a U.S. soldier. And so he was actually born on the U.S. base, which is how he was able to get his citizenship through America. An only child. His dad was an alcoholic and also extremely abusive to John and his mother as well. So we're talking like broken. broken bones, you know, busted ribs, you know, black eyes, all the things. And so that's what John grew up under, you know.

And so I think that had a lot to do with who he became in his later life as far as just, he had such a huge heart for people and he wanted to do what he could to make everyone's life better. If you were in his vicinity, if you were in his life and in his spear of influence, that is what he sought to do, you know, to make it. And his father died when he was still in his teens, correct? Yeah, he was, I believe, 15, if I'm remembering correctly. 15 when his dad died of suicide. Now, his father kills himself.

Does John, while you two are together, does he talk about his childhood or talk about his father's passing? Not so much. He didn't really, I mean, when he was working on his book, like there was a book that was supposed and not a biography that was supposed to come out, but that didn't work out. But anyways, during those times, he would discuss his dad, but not, I don't think it was a subject that he liked to talk about. Right, I can imagine. It's traumatic.

And when this is happening as a kid, it obviously has, you know, the trauma has an effect on any person that goes through that type of trauma. How do you feel like that manifests later in his life? Well, I could say that. It definitely affected his belief in God, only because his mother would send him to church, right? Like, she didn't go with him, but she would send him to church. And I remember him sharing once that he, you know, that he would pray to God that this, you know, this situation would not be like what it was, you know, that her dad would stop, you know, abusing them.

And God never answered, you know. And so for him that, I think that definitely marked him. deeply in that sense because as a child you have this child like faith but you don't see what you're asking for come to fruition so naturally you're no longer going to believe and so I think that fast forward

played out greatly in his in his adult life in the sense that I don't know if I want to say he was his own God if you will You know, I just, you know, me growing up how I grew up, I've always believed that there is a God. I've always believed that. And so, you know, other things happened in my life, took me away from that. But I think just to have, I don't want to say a moral compass, but I think we all need something higher than ourselves to believe in, yes.

And when you don't have that, it's, I don't know. I don't know, I would imagine it's kind of a bit despairing, you know, to not have something outside of you that you can look to to draw strength from, right? And so anyways, let me get back on track to where we were. I think that makes a lot of sense, right? I can imagine as like a young kid, you are depending on this higher power to save you, to take you out of the situation. And it never happens. And then especially for someone like John who, by all accounts, is extremely intelligent. And so he's noticing that like, okay, I'm doing this behavior, I'm doing what they're telling me to do, and I'm not getting any benefit.

This is extremely frustrating. And then slowly he starts to do better in school. He starts to, you know, do well in business and through his own accord is able to change his life. Something that God never did for him or couldn't do. And so I can imagine for him in his mind, he goes, I am the thing that ultimately gets me out of bad situations. And when I can control the environment around me, things go good. it up to God, I get, you know, my ribs broken. Right.

And I can imagine how that would create a very sort of tenuous relationship with a higher power and, you know, a lot of self-belief in a lot of ways. Yes, yes. And I think that kind of manifested in a lot of his behaviors. And I think as well, just our relationship probably would be also a manifestation of what he saw growing up, you know, his mother being abused. I came from a situation where I was, you know, a working girl, a prostitute. I'm not supposed to say that word anymore.

You know that. It's supposed to be sex worker. A sex worker. Oh, God. Listen, I believe in calling a thing a thing and I was a harlot, okay? No, you weren't. You're a worker. You're a worker.

That's what it was. That's so funny that someone else is probably going to comment on this, be like, Janice, it's not a prostitute. You're like, look, I put the prostitute. What do you want me to say? Yeah. And so, and I had a pimp who was extremely abusive. So that's the situation that I came out of.

And then the women that he met in Belize, those women were the same, had come from similar situations. And so I think, again, that was just his nature, right, to want to help. And it wasn't just only women, you know, that he wanted to help in that way. The men that he had around him as well, he sought to mentor and, and, um, and I guess share the knowledge, you know, the wealth of knowledge that he had. Right. He really commiserated and identified with people and probably women to a large extent that had been abused. Yeah.

Broken people, if you will. Yeah, in a way. And I think that that's pretty traditional. I think a lot of men, you know, emulate, you know, characteristics within their mother in a lot of different ways. And if his mother's abused and he's meeting women, they're also abused. I wonder if there's a feeling like, oh, I can help them, I can save them, I can get them out of this. And as a result, he's sort of, you know, around a lot of these types of women and men.

And I'm curious with you guys in your early relationship, was there connection on sort of trauma and, like, you know, upbringing and things like that? Not really. Not really. For me, for me, for me, John was an answer to prayer, okay? Because I was, I had just turned 30 before I met him. And I grew up very religious. My father is still a minister. My mother's dad was actually a pastor.

He had a small, like, storefront church. And so growing up, I was around my grandparents, you know, and going to their church. And the people in that church seemed really serious about God and who God was. And he seemed really real to them, right? And thereby real to me, right? I think that was the first time I experienced God. love is just being in that environment. And so my grandfather had passed, you know, years prior to my turning 30.

But I remember just sitting Miami Beach, it was on South Beach. And I was actually on my birthday. I was actually at work, which I was very upset about, because I had made enough money to at least have a night off, right, where I could just go to the club, buy some bottles, enjoy myself, right? And he took me to Benihana. for dinner. This is the same thing we did the year before for my birthday.

And then sent myself and the other girl that was working with him or one of his other host to work. Right. And I absolutely refused to work. I just sat on my butt all night. I didn't care. And I remember just watching the girls walking in. And I just, in my mind, I'm like, I can't do this anymore. And so it was kind of having a conversation with my grandfather, you know, because I knew if God was real,

my grandfather knew him and if heaven was real my grandfather was there and so I was saying in my mind you know if your God is real I need him to do something for me because I can't do this another day

a week month or year I just can't and I said and if he doesn't do anything then I'm just going to give myself over to this life which meant you know I was just going to start hitting the bottles drinking you know drugging whatever because up until that point I hadn't

you know I drank of course because that was the nature of the job but nothing where I was getting black out drunk, you know, or doing cocaine or any of the other drugs that are prevalent. You didn't fully give in to the lifestyle. Right, exactly. I had standards. Right. But four days later, I met John, right? And so he was absolutely an answer to my, that secret cry of my heart. Nobody heard me. Like, I didn't speak this audibly to anyone, you know.

And so that's what John was to me, right? And initially, though, I mean, I received that as a gift from God, right? But also at the same time, there was a self-sabotaging that began to happen because it was like, how could this person want to be with me? You know what I'm saying? Like, he's so super smart. Like, he's lived this fascinating life. Like, what can I possibly offer him, you know, and why?

Well, like, why is he keeping me around? You know, like, we're not, and it's not, obviously, we met, you know, I was working, and sex played a part, but it didn't play a part as to why he wanted me with him. And so I was like, okay, well, if I'm not even good for that, then why does he have me? You know what I'm saying? It was just, so there were a lot of things that I was doing initially to just try to make myself as unattractive as, possible or maybe to push him away I think that's a better way to say that

because he can't try to push him away yeah because if you're able to do that then he can't reject you which is the ultimate fear that like of course he's going to reject me so before he can reject me I'll just reject myself I'll just make it such that he doesn't want me at all exactly and this seemed to backfire

because it seemed like he did yes it did it did for a while I guess until I figured out you know what am I doing here You know, like what, like, this was an answer to your prayer, and what are you going to do here? You're just going to, you're going to blow it, and how stupid would you be right now to blow this, you know? And so, you know, eventually I got my act together.

It took a couple years, but I did eventually. Okay. I want to jump to more of, like, how you guys met and then sort of what that journey was like. But just to catch the audience up to speed, John basically, you know, brilliant, gets a degree in mathematics. and feel free to fill in any gaps here as we're kind of jumping along. Starts working with NASA. Yeah, he worked for Xerox first.

I think that was important because I think that's where he learned about programming. Okay. So he's programmed with Xerox. It becomes a programmer for NASA? Yeah. He worked on a lot of black projects,

things that he couldn't even talk about at the time of his meeting. So they were still pretty secret things that he worked on. And he was always very shocked that he got a security clearance. because he was completely honest about, you know, the questions they were asking, have you sold drugs, yes, you know, have you done drugs?

Yes, how much, how more than I could carry, you know, just... Even at that time, because he was probably in his 20s at that time. And even in his 20s, he was always the same John. He was partying, doing drugs, having fun. Yeah, well, I mean, he was born in, what, 40, 45? And so, you know, he would have lived through that whole hippie, you know, generation. Right. And so, yeah, he, yeah, he was full on.

And embraced it in a lot of ways. He is full on, yeah, for sure. Interesting. He had a one, oh, I should tell this story, though. The story that he told him having this one trip where he, I think he said he was in St. Louis, and he took some acid or something. And he's out walking, right?

And so he takes a little bit, and then nothing has. happens so he's taking more and more and more because nothing's happening so then all of a sudden it hits and he said he's this dog is like barking and so he said you know this caught his attention naturally because of his love of dogs and so he goes over to the dog and the dog says finally you came over i've been trying to get your attention and it's like come with me so he goes on this crazy crazy trip which culminated in the end of him a voice in his head telling him that he needed to go and kill his wife and his daughter. And he said on his way there, someone came and met him outside.

I guess it was a minister or someone. I don't know. Some man who kind of talked to him and talked him down out of that, I don't know, lunacy. I don't know what to call it. I've never had a trip like that. But he, yeah, he was gone for a good little while, you know. And the voice told him.

kill his wife at the time and his daughter. Yeah. And he was like, all right. Like, for whatever reason in that state, he was like, I was sure. He had actually made it to the house, and I think maybe his mother called someone. Because, you know, obviously they lived near to each other. So I think that's how, I don't think this random person just showed up. I think someone called.

So he did actually make it to the house, but hadn't done anything. Right. And he told you this story. Yeah. Well, he's spoken about it publicly before as well, you know. And then you were like, hey, let's never do LST ever again or whatever that was. Right. Heaven forbid you get another voice.

But see, he had I done drugs like that in a, and I would say decades. You know, so even for all of his wild and craziness, even for all of his talking of drug use, he was always talking about prior drug use, never current. So he was very much a sober day. I was the one that smoked the weed and he was like super against it when we were living in Portland because he was scared or concerned that if the police wanted to

if for whatever reason they wanted to come and harass him or make us like difficult to you know that's that would be the reason problem cause so so yeah he later on once we were in Tennessee he led up on that rule but but yeah he was completely different than

than the John McAfee that you saw, that public figure. Right. Wow. Okay. So this is his time in the 60s where he's simultaneously, you know, he's living this crazy life, really genius guy, but also doing a lot of 60s era things. You know what I mean?

Yes, of course. Having orgies, all the things. Right. And probably maybe half of the 47 children he allegedly had probably came during that. Those two years. Right. Yeah. So then at that point, once he starts working,

within these companies, NASA, Lockheed. Does his act clean up a little bit, or is he still partying to your understanding? To my understanding, I think yes, yes and no. I mean, cleaned up in the sense that he did his work, right? He was very adamant about making sure his work was done before, you know, partying or what have you. But he was, I don't know, I guess he was able to dance this dance. So simultaneously being super hardcore party guy as well as making sure he fulfilled his responsibilities at work. Right.

And then goes on to create, you know, I forget which company he was at, but basically he's at this company and finds out of this computer brain virus thing. And it goes on to create McAfee antivirus. I'm not sure what he was doing at the time when the antivirus came about. But I know that his brother-in-law, so he had since been divorced and married. twice since then. So this was his third wife, Judy, and that he was married to at the time.

So his brother-in-law came and brought him, there was an article about the computer virus. And so he said when he read it, he immediately knew what they did, how they did it, and how it could be reversed. And so that's how the McAfee-anctivirus was birth from that. And it seems like he really pioneered a few different things

within the software world where he was kind of like, hey, like free software trials, like, you can do this. He was really great at marketing and explaining to people like, hey, this is like a cold or like a fever for your computer. And it really attached to a lot of people. And as a result, you know, he was making millions of dollars fairly quickly. He was actually giving it free, giving it a way free to individuals, individual users, but his first contract came from the army, from the military.

So, and then, of course, CIA, FBI, all of those things. And so that's how he made his millions. It was a contract with the military. Government contracts. Interesting. Now, was he ever, like, this relationship we had with these government contracts? Was he working with them in close capacity or was he just selling the software to them? I don't know.

I don't want to speak out of turn. So I'm not sure. I would imagine that he would have been working in close proximity because he was a genius. Right. He absolutely would have known what they needed. right as far as as because obviously antivirus for the individual and then for the military is different things yeah completely different things so i would assume he was working quite closely with with whomever his contact was him so then by the 90s he's you know the company goes public

at that point i think he'd already left the company due to some differences early 90s i think from what he expressed is that he just wasn't meant to be in boardrooms and you know board of directors and answering to anyone. Which I think most people can see based off of his public persona, that's probably the case. Yeah, so he got out really early, really early. But still kept the shares and then when eventually went public. Kept the shares and then eventually sold the shares, yes. And it seems like based off public reports made somewhere in like the $100 million range.

And then at that point he starts investing and I feel like this is kind of like the birth of the John Mac for that people really see online. and is very eccentric and is doing all sorts of wild things, but is also investing a lot into real estate. Right. And then... Well, he was... Yeah, I guess you could say investing. I think he was more so building homes.

He was a friend of mine actually said the way that he built his homes was kind of like how Michelangelo would paint, right? And so it just was very beautiful, the work of art that his homes were, right? The details that he went, you know, in decorating it. And because he did all of that, you know, himself. Really? How many? How many homes did he build that are still around? Are there many?

So the one in Colorado Springs, that's a big compound. So there was the big main house. And then I think there was like 20 different cabins on, you know, spread out on the property. The New Mexico home, I believe, is still standing. That was a really nice one that he had as well. His homes in Belize, so he built homes for three of the girls. So I don't imagine those have to look pretty nice. I don't think I've ever seen those online, I'm sure, you know, for obvious reasons.

But the home that I was able to see was actually the color. Colorado Springs home, which is really cool. I mean, it was beautiful. You know, it was still designed in the way that he had it. And it was just like a work of art. Wow. It was, yeah, it was nice. And then he claimed at some point in 2008 that he had lost much of his fortune.

But then later kind of was like, I was using the media. What can you clarify on that point? I think there's nothing that I can do to clarify because John was very private about that, as he should have been, but there's really no one's business. I will say that he was brilliant, so I doubt that he would have had 50% of his holdings, you know, that he lost, you know? That just doesn't seem right, knowing what I know of John McAfee,

and maybe even you, just knowing him publicly that, you know, that just would seem absurd, right? that he would, you know, kind of put eggs in one basket and not, you know, be prepared for a rainy day, you know? Right. Also, I think the whole situation in 2008 was not a surprise to anyone paying attention, right? So I would assume he would have been paying attention, you know.

But he had other companies as well. So he had other things that brought him his wealth as well. So he had a company called Tribal Voice, which was an instant messaging program that he was running, that made him something like $17 million. But obviously, the antivirus was the bigger, had the lion's share of his wealth. But he was always busy creating.

And once his creation came to fruition, then it was on to the next thing. That was kind of his immo, you know, because he would get bored and now it was on to the next thing that excited him. This is how he strikes me just based off of reading about him is that he's very much a work hard, play hard type of, you know, like a centric multimillionaire, right? Which like there's very many of these people that I've read about or met that, you know, they'll work, you know, 18 hours a day and then party the other six, you know? And they just, they love to, you know, go fast and try things and disrupt things. And if they're smart, like John was able to disrupt industries, but then also liked to.

party and meet women and have fun and go do crazy cowboy things with his friends. And so to me, there's like a little bit of a dichotomy, I think, to many people where they're like, okay, this guy's a partier and he likes to shoot guns and he likes to go on boats and he's living like this crazy, you know, larger than life, you know, sort of lifestyle. But simultaneously is also building multi, a hundred million dollar companies and working, you know, 12, 16, 18 hours a day. To me, I've met some people like this, but I'm curious, like, how does that square with your relationship with him and the way that you saw him work? Was he, like, does this dichotomy exist for you, or do you see him as someone that was able to do all things and be multiple people? No, very much so.

This was his existence, right? Very much so. He just liked to have a good time. He liked to enjoy life. And I think the partier of him was not. as prevalent maybe in those earlier years. You know, obviously with age comes wisdom usually. And then also our lives were just, you know, dangerous, right?

He was very much in real danger when he came back from Belize. Well, Guatemala is where he actually came from, but his problems were birthed from what happened. in Belize and so that followed him into America he liked to

work hard and play maybe not hard but just play you know enjoy life and and that definitely took a different

shape you know it wasn't you know drugs and women and all of that it was guns right bows

booze you know just and just relaxing you know just relaxing and doing whatever it was that tickled his fancy in the moment.

Was he competitive? With himself. Yeah. Like he didn't speak about rivals or other people in different industries that he wanted a bigger boat then or a bigger house than, like things like that?

No, I think, you know, at the height of his wealth, he was able to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted, however he wanted. So he got to live that out, you know, and there was nothing that he wasn't able to do if he so chose to do it.

So I think, no, he was not in any competition. I don't even think then, you know, at the time, he would have been either. I think just with himself, you know, what can I do? You know, what can I do with all of this wealth? And obviously, I think he mentioned before, you know, that amount of wealth, the people that are around you, you don't know who you can trust. You don't know if they're laughing at your jokes because they're funny or because, you know, you have the money, right?

you know, and they just want to be, stay in close proximity to you. So there was a loneliness there as well, you know, because you never know why people are with you or around you. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick, because you need help pitching your tents. Yes, and that's what we do over here at camp. Maybe you're, you know, in line waiting for a concert somewhere,

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Let's get back to the show. At this time, before he goes to Belize, does he have friends? Um, friends because he had money, maybe. Yeah, but not like a guy that he knew since he was 16 or another. Not that I ever heard him speak of. Now, that's not to say, I apologize anyone that may have been a friend of his hearing this. It just never shared that with me. I think the person he was closest to was his uncle who kind of took on the father role when his dad died.

And so that was who he spoke with great affection about. Right. And so outside of that, I can't speak confidently on that. That's fair. I will say, though, well, not we'll say, but I will just tell you briefly why he left America. And so he was living in New Mexico, I think, at the time. and he had

through his wife's family on his wife's side nephews, two nephews and a niece twin boys and then an older daughter and so they would come and spend the summers with John right and so them being children you know John's like well I'm not going to change my life you know

to fit these kids in because they wanted to be they wanted to spend time with Uncle John they loved Uncle John and so he would take them I think where did he say in Santa Cruz like in a really posh area

of Santa Cruz or if they'd go on a vacation in Palm Springs so it's like super duper posh people right and he would have the kids go and like if there was a cigar story he sent I think he said

he sent his nephews in there and asked him where the children's section is for the children's cigars or he would send them up to you know people older people usually and ask if they could have a cigarette and they'd say well where's your parents

oh my uncle John's right over there he said it was okay so this is what he liked to do you have fun just a mess of people yeah they adored him and so unfortunately one of his nephews died in a plane crash and so

that really rocked John's world you know because that was he was more of a son to John and this is the reason why he left America and went to Belize, right? He just kind of decided he had enough and he sold his home like in a fire cell. He was giving way all this expensive art, cars, everything, just go now. And he went to Belize with what he had. Do you know why Belize?

I have no idea why Belize. I mean, he just said that it was beautiful, which it is. I've seen pictures. I'm not allowed to go there, apparently, because of my relationship with him. He said I would be foolish to ever go there. So anyways. But I could see a man so overcome by grief.

Yeah. And, you know, I don't want to be in my home. They gives me memories of this, you know, basically a son to me. And I don't want to be in the city that I know at this point. Like, I could see him being so overcome by grief that he wants to leave. But Belize just seems, you know, with all the respect. I've heard Belmont upon is a beautiful city. but I just don't know

Why? I had a Belizean friend You know, but that's about the extent of what I knew about Belize So I don't know why someone would be like, oh, I need to go to Belize. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know either.

Had he traveled there earlier in his life? Probably. Mm-hmm. He probably spent some time there. I mean, mind you, he was extremely wealthy at one point, so he probably went to all of the places that he ever wanted to go to. Right.

And so... Maybe it just had a fixation. Again, why Belize? I don't know. But when he goes down there, it seems like somewhat quickly there's tension. I actually don't know how long he was living there before all of the things that people know about happening in Belize happened. So I'm not sure. But he goes there and he's living there.

He's building homes. He's meeting women. He's doing the things that John does. And so minus the partying. I should say that. I don't see that that would have been a thing at that point in his life. So he started a company. Well, he opened up a coffee shop, I think he built it and opened it

or just opened one in a previous standing building. I don't know. Anyways, because he wanted coffee. So he was always trying to solve his own problems. He wanted coffee, couldn't find it until he opened a coffee shop, gave it over to the locals. He would try to catch a fear. to the mainland, but the ferry was never running on time.

So he bought boats and opened his own ferry company, gave it over to the locals. So one of his girlfriends, Amy, was living in an area that was very dangerous. So he wanted her to live somewhere that was safe. So he donated equipment to the police and money to the police to equip them what they needed to do their jobs. So this is just what he was kind of doing, living over there, enjoying his life. And then he decided that he was going to make a topical antivirus because when I actually met him,

he had like all of these marks from bug bites all up and down his arms and his legs. And so that's why he was working on this topical antivirus for himself. Not ironic too. Yeah. He just has this antivirus company and then also creates another antivirus company. Yeah. And he had made samples and was giving them out to the locals

and it was working. He was doing a good job. And so eventually he was two political representatives came to his property. And they asked him if he would be willing to give a $2 million donation to, I'm assuming, the ruling political party. And for that, he would get all sorts of perks, women, drugs, land, whatever it was that he wanted. And he, you know, politely declined. And he says a week after that happened, the G.S. which is a gang suppression unit came to his property and handcuffed him and I think 14 other

people on their knees in the ground outside for over 12 hours they were handcuffed that way they destroyed his lab and shot his dog his deaf dog in front of him and they arrested him as well and said that he had an illegal firearm which they later dropped that charge because he was able to produce the license and um A week after that, those same representatives came back to the property and asked if he'd reconsidered his donation, to which he said, get the F off my property. And this began the war for him. And so what he was trying to find out was information showing that he was set up for the raid on his property because he wanted an apology from the prime minister. And so what he decided to do was he decided to give laptop. to boyfriends, girlfriend,

people high up in the government, secretaries, people close enough proximity to people high enough up to where he could prove

this information, right, or find out this information. So on these laptops, there was key stroke logging information

to spyware on the laptops. And quickly, he found out that instead of finding out information related to him and about this raid on his property, found out about drug trafficking, human trafficking, murder for hire, passport selling, all sorts of money laundering, all kinds of terrible, terrible crimes that were being perpetrated by people that were extremely high up and within the Belizean government.

And so he hired a group of women to kind of parse through the information for him, looking for things that were relevant to him. And so one of these young ladies was sleeping with, I believe it was the head of the GSU. And she, during some pillow talk, kind of spilled the beans and said, oh, yeah, this is what we're doing for John McAfee. And so that's how they found out what he was doing. And so this happened sometime in the summer of 2012. and so he had to go into hiding or go on the run while he was still there in Belize so

he's you know kind of island hopping moving around he and Samantha just trying to stay you know safe basically and this all culminated within the murder of his neighbor which John was convinced was actually a botched hit on himself this is Gregory Fall

yeah Gregory Fall they went whoever killed Mr. Fall, they went to the wrong property. And so John always felt that he was the intended target of that. Now there's obviously much speculation around

Gregory Fall and that it has been said that John was a person of interest. Right, which is not true, actually. And can you clarify that point? So he was never a person of interest. He was only wanted for questioning. He was never wanted for murder. He was

never even suspected of murdering him. And this is all from the Belizean news, right? So the reporting in Belize was that he was never wanted for murder, only for questioning, as all of the other neighbors were questioned. But because of what was already happening with John, he, of course, was not going to turn himself in for questioning. And so that's why he was refusing to go to them and be questioned.

Right. Especially, you can understand John's perspective. Because he's saying, like, look, I had nothing to do with the murder. But I am connected to it in the sense that whoever killed this person really meant to kill me. So I'm not going to go talk to a government that I think is hostile to me that I believe killed this guy trying to get me. Why would I go into your private room to go speak with you about anything? Exactly. Which, correct from wrong, he did express a willingness to be questioned just not in beliefs.

Yes, definitely. When he came back to America, that's kind of what people were asking him. He was going on these news stations when they were asking him about the situation. He always said, I'm more than happy to answer any of their questions, but in a neutral place. They can come here to Miami. When we were in Portland, he offered for them to come there. He just was not willing to go back to Belize to answer the questions. When you think about it, why would he have needed to go specifically to Belize, you know, to answer questions?

Why not just come and ask your questions, you know? He also had dogs at the time. Yeah, he had a lot of dogs, which were not, he actually only brought two or three dogs with him from the state to the Tuba Lees. All of the rest of the dogs were stray dogs that, I guess, made their way to his property one way or another. So they were not officially his dogs, but they became his dogs. And so he would look after that. Yeah, he took very good care of them.

And so he understood that people had issues with his dogs. He had issues with the dogs because they had issues with the dogs because they would look after that. They were wild dogs, if you will, you know, and so they barked a lot and they were just kind of a nuisance, you know. But from what John expressed about the situation is he felt that someone, I guess someone within the authorities of the Belizean government poisoned his dogs. So there was a story or allegedly Mr. Fall had filed some report or complaint against. the dogs prior to his being killed. And this then is why people are saying or why it was then said that John killed him because he allegedly poisoned the dogs. So this was kind of the story that because Mr. Fall filed this complaint, he was probably the one who poisoned the dogs.

John probably assumed that he was the one that poisoned the dogs and then thereby that's why Mr. Fall is dead. but John believed that it was someone within the government. Again, just trying to, I don't know, agitate the situation because obviously if the dogs were disabled, then it would be easier for whomever to come onto the property, right? Because there's less of an alert. And so there was actually nine dogs that were poisoned. I think it's reported that maybe one or two,

but it was actually nine dogs. And John had to, you know, go and kill them all because they were throwing up blood and blood was coming out of their, you know, their anus, so it was pretty bad. Right. And especially for John, who's a dog lover. Yeah.

But obviously, they were suffering, so, you know. Yeah, of course. I can imagine that being a very difficult decision, right? Well, maybe not a difficult decision, but maybe having to carry it out, yeah. I mean, the decision was simple. They're suffering. Right.

You want to stop that from happening. Yeah. So I'm curious in that regard, Why is he paranoid at that point that the government is basically trying to get him? Is it because they've uncovered this plot where he's basically tracking all this? Was he ever going to go public with that? Was he ever going to expose this? He might have threatened to.

I don't know. I don't know. He might have threatened to. But the fact that he had that information, they knew that he had that information. They wanted that information. They wanted to collect him to find out where it was who had it to make sure they had all of the copies. Because imagine for however long this was going on So I think there was a few months

That they that went by without them knowing Right? So imagine the kind of candid conversations That are being had Because you have no idea anyone is listening right Right What you're discussing so freely You know and knowing that someone has all of this information You know and and

And you don't know where it is or where it's going to or who's going to get it, right? But you're ruined, you're ruined if this ever gets out. So, of course, this is why he's paranoid. Of course, this is why he thinks, you know, that the murder of his neighbor of Mr. Fall was, you know, a botched hit on him, you know. And of course, that's why he refused to go to Belize for questioning.

You know, this, I mean, for me, this just makes complete sense, you know, like he's literally has shared this story. numerous times publicly of what he did, what he did, right? Because he just wanted an apology. And so he has this information, you know. And so, of course, why wouldn't he be under constant threat, right, until they are able to get that information from him?

Right. You know? Did he ever have, like, concrete emails from the government officials that were meeting with him? Or were they doing everything secretively? I think he had everything. Oh, really? He had all communication.

Like hard evidence. Like, hey, they tried to basically get me to bribe them, or they tried to extort me. No, not in that sense. No, not in that sense. I just mean of their criminal activity, the criminal activity that they were involved in. Got it. Right? So that's the information that he had.

And again, you know, it's... Anyways, I don't want to get too deeply into that. But yes, he had a lot of incriminating information. that should have completely wiped out the Belizean government, you know, all of them being arrested, you know, but obviously it's a banana republic. I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I guess they do what they want to do over there, and that's just the law of the land too. Right.

But prior to, you know, the spyware, like those correspondences he had with the government. I don't think so. I don't think he ever found the evidence that he was looking for as it related to himself. I don't think so. Got it. I see. I mean, yeah, I can imagine that being terrifying. Living in a country, you're like,

oh, these people can just take me out of nothing. Like, they might not have any justice. Like, especially if it's done being perpetrated by the government. Right, right. I mean, and especially, I can imagine in, you know, a place, you know, like, you know, most of Central America, you can find someone that could carry out a hit. Yes, very easily.

Fairly easily. Cheaply. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I can see this being stressful. Did he have other enemies at that time? Or was it primarily? people within the government that he sort of had

uncovered this crime network. Well, at that time, I think that was his biggest threat. But I think him just being a gringo and living in the jungle. So he was living off the beaten path of tourists, you know, where

Americans typically, if they had a home there, then it would be kind of in the safer area where it's known for the tourism, right? But he was, like I said, off the beaten path. And that's just how he liked to live, to live authentically as possible to the natives, yeah.

And so there were issues that arose because of that, you know, people wanting to extort money from him or wanting to harm him, you know, for this reason. And so he needed to protect himself until that's what he did. You know, he hired, I think, I forget the man's name, but he hired, oh, I almost had it. Anyways, he was a gentleman who was very much feared on the island. He was a former police. And so he hired him and his gang, well, maybe not gang, it's not the best of his associates to protect him.

So he did have a private security detail? Yeah, he had, yeah. And did he also have security cameras? Yes, of course. robust security system within his home. I'm sure. I'm sure. But with that system,

he never caught who poisoned the dogs? I don't think so. Again, I'm assuming he had cameras and all of that. I'm making a huge assumption here because I actually don't know. I never really asked him. But, yeah, I would imagine if he did, he would have been able to capture that

because from what I could see in the pictures, the gate of where the dogs would have been to receive the poison. I'm assuming it was put in some food or something. Would have been right there along the beach on the beach side. So just knowing John, like he would have had cameras that would have been able to, because that would have been a spot of vulnerability. And so I would assume if he had cameras, he would have had footage there and could have proven or figured out what.

I imagine it's going to be a masked man, you know, which doesn't give you a ton, right? Is that someone from the government? Is that someone from a local gang? Is that, you know, a neighbor? Like, you can't really, you know, pin down who exactly it is. Yeah, I can see this being challenging for him in that moment. So effectively, this whole situation goes down. There's the documentary that we spoke about Breedle's before, Gringo, that details, you know, some of John's life.

and specifically this time in Belize and it depicts him to be and again I haven't seen the documentary so forgive me here but from what I understand from the documentary it depicts him to be violent and potentially dangerous and the time that you were with John

did you think he was capable of the violence though was sort of disgust in the documentary no not at all and if there's anyone that should have been in fear of John it should have been me right because of the

situation with myself and the pimp and the cartel And so I never felt unsafe around John, ever. I never felt unsafe with him carrying a weapon, ever. I will say about the gringo, when they were actually just looking to begin filming, right? They were going the producers, Nanette Bernstein, who was the director or producer, and I believe Josh Davis as well went down to Belize and each person that was in the Gringo

all of them called John, not at the same time but individually called John and said hey this person's here from Showtime and they're wanting me to tell them all these sorts of stories about you and they said they're going to pay me X amount of money and so so John knew what was happening you know because he still had friends you know they were still very friendly he they didn't leave

he didn't leave believes on bad terms with the people that that worked for him right or that were in close proximity to him you know um he was a he was a good man by all um by their stories and just them even reaching out to him to say hey let me give you a heads up about what's happening right they don't owe him anything right they owed him nothing and so um you You know, John told them all, each of them. He said, listen, if it gets you more money, just tell them that you saw me eating babies. You know, he's like, tell them whatever they want you to tell them, right? And because at the time he wasn't able to, like many of them worked for him.

So obviously that dried up because they, you know, he was no longer there. So he was concerned, you know, as far as financially, you know, this is a lot of money or this is money that can help you. so do what you can to get them whatever they're going to pay you. So I never saw the Gringo either. I saw like snippets of it. But I will say that again, these, I think concrete proof that John received that they were being paid. It was from Eddie McCoy, who in the Gringo is Mack 10, who was allegedly the hitman that John hired to kill Gregory Fall.

and paid him with a check, which is so stupid. Like, who's going to... This is, to kill my neighbor. Right, you're going to write that on the check. It was so stupid. And so anyways, he was paid $3,000 through Western Union, and that was paid directly to him by Nanette Bernstein, you know. And so a little bit of devil's advocate,

maybe he's being paid because he was appearing in the documentary, but $3,000 is a lot of money for someone to just... you know, be a part of a documentary. Now, I don't know what the going rate is for people being paid to participate in a documentary, but $3,000 sounds like a lot of money to me, especially if this is allegedly the hitman who is saying that John wrote him a check, you know, a check payment to kill this neighbor. So I think I have great disdain for the gringo.

Because John's story, John's story, is so fascinating and it's so wildly entertaining that you do not need to have people lie, right? You just don't need to. The truth is just so much better than the fiction that has been created.

You know, and so yeah, that's, and I think John as well, he was actually invited to participate in the documentary. He had a few conversations with Nanette, but because of the direction that she was obviously going in, he just refused to be a part of it.

And then I think at some point there's discussion of like meth and like a meth lab. Yeah. Is there any validity to this? I doubt it. I doubt it. Like, again, I wasn't there. So I'm going to just tell you what. And the time that you knew him, he was not actively doing meth or running a math lab.

No, not at all. Not at all. Again, I believe what he told me to be true was that the lab was him creating a topical antibiotic. and the plant in which he was using for the antibiotic was native to that part of the jungle where his property was. And so I do believe the woman, Allison, I believe her name was, was the one who was working with him in the lab.

So I think she would have known if he was working on meth. I don't think she's ever stated anything to that effect. I do know there was some other accusation that he forced himself on her. Again, I can't speak to the village. validity of that, I will say that there is nothing in John's character that leads me to believe that he would be capable of something like that. My experience with John is that women were always throwing themselves at him in front of me when I wasn't around, you know, giving their hotel room keys to him or given, slipping their phone number to him. So this was my experience with John. So just, yeah.

So as far as like doing drugs or any reference he has, Because I do believe there were some times where he spoke about meth or maybe a meth equivalent. But in your opinion, that would be about a previous, like in his childhood or in his younger years. He talked a lot about drug use and his drug use and his expertise in how to, you know, the dosage of drugs and all of that. And that was related to prior drug use. But he did. So there was something happened to him, I think before. he left for Belize, I think he had a heart attack or something and it was meant to have a triple

bypassers. Is that the right wording? I think I'm... Perhaps, yeah. Anyways, and so he, instead of doing that, he went completely natural and was doing all, finding out whatever information he could, doing research to find out how he could naturally reverse the effects. And part of that was I guess you'd call it a supplement or something that he was getting from China. And that was, I think maybe this is what the people refer to when they're talking about. He was using meth or something. I don't know because I don't think he was very quiet about it. It wasn't something that he tried to hide.

It wasn't something that he abused, but it was definitely something that, at least what he told me, was just something to kind of maintain the proper functioning of his heart and all of that. Because he doesn't seem like a bashful person to me, right? Like all the things that he enjoyed, he was pretty upfront about, right? He's like, I like guns, I like women, I like drinking. And in my mind, if he also liked drugs, I could see him being like, I also enjoy doing drugs and here's me doing drugs, right? So I've heard just both sides of it where there are people that say like, oh, he's on these internet forums. and he's, you know, detailing how to, like, could we make meth?

You've heard these rumors before? Yeah. Well, I think, I don't think it was necessarily a rumor. I think that was him at some point. I think the handle was Stuffmonger was on one of the, I guess, the forum that you're probably speaking of. And so he shared, yeah, a lot of the time, his knowledge, you know, his extensive knowledge. But it wasn't active is what you're suggesting. No, to my knowledge, no.

Because again, I mean, running as a libertarian, like he seems like someone that is very much a free will connoisseur, right? Very much so. So long as you're within the bounds of like natural law and you're not like murdering other people, whatever it is that you'd want to do, that you can more or less do that. If you want to do meth, go do math.

And he's not doing it, obviously, by your account. but he was, you know, telling people and sort of discussing the nature of these kind of drugs with them. Yes, definitely. Interesting. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick

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We're all in this journey together, trying to be better men. So if you're interested, go to joinrelay.app slash camp and become the person that you know you can be. Now, let's get back to the show. How does John get from Belize to Guatemala? So after his neighbor was murdered, John now has to get off the island. And he, so what first happened was he, somehow he was actually on his property sometime after the, His neighbor was murdered, and they came to his property, the authorities did. And he tells the story of how he was hiding in, and he was hiding basically in the ceiling in his bedroom.

But they couldn't see him, obviously. And he had the way that it was built, like it was seamless. You know, the ceiling was seamless. So they couldn't, sorry, they couldn't see where he would have been hiding. But he could hear, you know, all the movement, you know, talking and looking, you know, really looking for him. Was it intentionally built to be like a hideout? It's a safe, safe room.

Really? Yeah. And so, not because of this situation, but for whatever reason. I think that also goes to the danger that John felt he was in even before all of that happened with the gifting of the laptops and all of that. There was obviously an element of danger there that existed prior to any of any of these other events happening. So he had arranged for a taxi driver, one of his trusted taxi drivers to come and meet him. And he was able to then get away from the home and then get ferried somewhere to catch a boat so that he could get to Guatemala.

I'm sorry, this story is a little sparse because I'm not exact on the details. But anyways, he eventually makes it on boat to Guatemala. And I think this is the part that Vice Magazine was able to capture a little bit if your audience is familiar at all with John's story. John was on a boat with Samantha and there's some footage, video footage of them kind of escaping from Belize into Guatemala. And then once they got to Guatemala and had finally could finally breathe a little bit of relief, the people with Vice Magazine decided to take a picture and it said we were with McAfee-Suckers, but the XF data wasn't removed. So immediately the location was known to the world. And John was having to go on the run again. and Samantha's uncle was a former attorney general for Guatemala

and so he called him and he sent his driver to come and pick up John and the crew and Samantha as well and drive them to him where he was in Guatemala assuming where we saw him being arrested by Interpol. Again, if your audience is familiar, they would have seen these pictures that are images of John being arrested by Interpol in Guatemala. And so he was brought there and then arrested for entering the country illegally. And this was the charge that they got him on. And the Belizean authorities immediately went into action to have him extradited from Belize.

But John's attorney needed time to file paperwork to kind of stay the extradition. request. And so this is when John fake the heart attack and then magically got well once the stay had been granted. And so after that, John was then taken to the airport. Because I guess once they stayed the extradition, then the jig was up. You know, there was nothing more that could have been done. Right. And so also, So because John was not wanted for a crime, right? He wasn't wanted for murder. She's just wanted for questioning.

There was no reason why he should have been held there, right? Because entering the country illegally slap on the wrist and they just send you back to your country of origin, right? So this is what happened. He was actually deported from Guatemala to Miami. And he said once the plane landed and they were still in the tarmac actually, that the plane was then boarded by men in black suits and the pilot called him forward to the front of the plane

and he said that he was like, well, what did I do now? You know, what trouble am I in now? And then the gentleman responded to him, nothing, we're here to help you. And so apparently the terminal was packed with like hundreds of media personnel, journalists, aren't they even journalists anymore? Anyways, news people, and they were wanting to get the story or whatever. So they were saying, you know, we're just for your safety and everyone else's safety, we want to escort you, wherever you want to go.

And so John asked to go to a taxi stand. And so they cleared out one of the terminals and there was just the one taxi there. And they put him in the taxi. And the taxi driver was like, who are you? And he said, I don't know. Can you just take me to South Beach? And so John was apparently I didn't know this. The Beacon Hotel is the hotel that he stayed at whenever he was on South Beach.

And so that's where the cab driver took him. And he went in and asked the manager there for some cash so he could pay the cab driver and also for a room. And he didn't have any money. He just had the clothes on his back. That's all that he had. All of the money that he had was stolen from him. So when he left America, I would assume that the majority of his, whatever he had left, money-wise, went with him.

And so that was all stolen when all of this situation happened with the neighbor and him having to leave Belize. His homes were raided, all of the expensive, you know, art, all of the things. All of it was gone. Basically seized by the government. No, I won't say seized. I think stolen. It's a better word. Right.

But stolen by either government officials or people working around these officials that knew that there was a vacant home, things of that nature. Yeah. Well, with the homes, anyone, I mean, whoever was around, right, I'm sure. But as it related to the bank account and all of that. Was his home ultimately sold? Yeah, the one home that was sold. I don't think it was in his name, though, but it was sold. I only mentioned that because there was a home that was actually in his name that was burned down

just before it was to sell. It was burned down allegedly, accidentally, but I think it was more an on-purpose situation. For what purpose? I don't know, because he had found a seller forward to maybe just to prevent him from being able to collect the money from the cell. I'm assuming Interesting

Yeah Yeah so all of All of his wealth Was you know Gone in an instant right So again all he had was the clothes on his back And I met John

I guess it would have been the day after he was deported So that would have been December 14th, 2012 Right And by the time you met him Yeah based off of your understanding, he had very little money. Yes, he had no money, actually.

Virtually at all. No money, yeah. I didn't realize that. Yeah, he had no money. When I met him, he had actually a friend of his came and brought him $5,000 in $5 bills, extremely crisp, $5 bills, and he gave me $1,000 of it for the night that I had spent with him. So December 13th, right, it's the night before or just a few hours before, we actually meet. And I'm in my condo with the other young lady who was working for my Pimp and

we were sleeping. It was a slow night. I think it was like maybe a Wednesday night or something. It was just a really slow night, a night that usually you wouldn't go out, right? Especially if we already had some money kind of saved up, you know, didn't want, there was no urgent need for us to go out. It's not a Saturday, Super Bowl weekend or something. Yeah, exactly. Because otherwise you're putting your yourself at risk of being harassed by the cops or arrested. Right. Every night you're out is exposure.

Right. And so you want to be smart about it and not be out when there's nothing going on. Right. So anyways, the pimp calls and he's like, why aren't you guys outside? So slowly, very slowly, we get dressed. We end up outside about midnight. And I happened to park my car across the street from the Beacon Hotel. And we went to a place called Clevelander and mangoes.

These are like night spots right there on over. Ocean Drive. And nothing was happening there. So I decided that we were going to go to the Hard Rock Cafe in Fort Lauderdale, or the Hard Rock Casino, sorry, in Fort Lauderdale. And so we're walking back to where the car is parked. And I see John standing out in front of Johnny Rockett speaking to one of the workers there. And we make eye contact. You know, I smile and nod, and He does the same. But I keep walking because I very quickly assessed that he was broke and that he wasn't interested. He just looked very disheveled.

His clothes were not. He just didn't look like he had money, right? And so he looked rough, actually, as well. And so I just kept walking. And by the time we got to the beacon, the night manager was coming outside. And so I've chatted with him before and I was asking him, hey, what's going on? tonight. Is there any parties in town? The cops out harassing, like, what's going on tonight, right? A temperature check, if you will. And, you know, while he's telling me, you know, nothing's really going

on, he looks down to where we just come from, where Johnny Rockets is, and he sees John. And he says, well, you know who that is, right? And I was like, no, I don't. And he said, that's John McAvey. I'm like, okay, who's that? And so he's like, well, do you know the McAfee antivirus? I was like, of course. And he said, well, that's the creator of it. And I was like, oh, really? Interesting. But I still hesitated because again

my assessment was a fair assessment maybe he's not broke but he definitely wasn't interested but anyways I just bypassed that and I was like

okay let's just go and see what happened right so by the time we get to him he's now at the news cafe which is right on the corner of Aethan Ocean

it doesn't matter the street number but anyways whatever he's at the news cafe which is still there by the way and he's smoking a cigarette talking to the workers there and so I asked him for a cigarette

and while he was lighting my cigarette he said what do you girls out of doing drugging and rolling old mint to which I responded we don't use drugs and that intrigued him greatly and he then invited us to join him for coffee and so I immediately went into my spiel would you like some company

you can have some chocolate or vanilla or you could do a little swirl or whatever just to get it out of the way again i already says he wasn't interested and he did not look any more interested right even though he invited us for coffee so so i got that out of the way he declined you know and said i'm not interested and so then i was like okay well what brings you to miami are you here for business or pleasure and he was like um he's like no you don't know who i am i was like no i have no idea who you are and he's like well i've been top of the news for weeks now it's like well i don't watch you guys you're like well i don't watch the news, I'm sorry. So he seemed a little offended by me not knowing who he was.

I wonder if he was relieved. Maybe, maybe. But I think he was a little more offended. Yeah. Well, just because I, you know, I'm there in Miami and had I watched the news, I should have known exactly who he was. But I think that also there might have been relief in the sense that he kind of felt safe that I wasn't sent to him, you know? Right. You know, and so he began to share with me the circumstances that led to him being there. So all of the things I just shared with you about Belize, he shared with me. Maybe not in such great detail, but kind of just a rough overview.

And then he started sharing about his girlfriends, right? and about Amy and Samantha and Tamisha and these girls, he helped to change their lives, basically. You know, he built them homes and, you know, eventually I would find out more about all that he did for Amy, which I would love to hear her story if she ever felt comfortable with sharing, right? Just because he, from what he said, you know, he hired tutors for her. so that she could get a diploma and she could learn English. He built her home as well. And at the time when John was back in America,

maybe I think when I was say 2014-ish, he had spoken to her and she was working for one of the wealthiest men on the island, working very close proximity, like a secretary or something, or assistant, personal assistant to him. Yeah. So she had done very great for herself. You know, she still had her home. She had her mother living in her home, the mother who sold her, you know, for sexual favors for money.

But she turned her life around so much. Now, before I knew all of that, just knowing the little bit that I did know, I was like, okay, so I said, well, maybe I could be girlfriend number eight because he said there was seven of them. So I was like, maybe I could be girlfriend number eight. And it was like, you know, whatever. And so then he asked me to dismiss my girlfriend Because she was high on Molly And not really adding much to the conversation So then I did ask her

You know, I told her, you know, he wants me to stay And so she did leave And we stayed So we spoke for like maybe three hours We were just sitting there You know for a long time, yeah And it was really nice And so then he invited me back to his hotel

and while he's in the bathroom I'm kind of being nosy just seeing what he has in the room and he didn't have anything just again what clothes on his back so I'm in his hotel room again just assessing things

and he comes out of the bathroom and he's standing on the side of the bed and he's kind of rocking up and down on his tippy toes so I'm like okay what's going on and he was like would you mind if we just cuddle and I was like

yeah, sure, we can cuddle, of course. But in my mind, I'm like, what the hell is cuddling? Like, I've never heard of cuddling, and I'm trying to go through my rolodex of what sort of kinky sexual thing cuddling could it be. I was like, you know what, screw it, I'll figure it out. I'm sure I could do it, whatever it is. And so he gets undressed and we're in the bed,

and he just literally wraps himself so tightly around me and puts his head on my shoulder and goes to sleep. And that's what we did the first night we were together. I'll be honest. Reminds me of myself, right? I feel like John and I have a lot in common. Like, because if I had to guess if I were to, you know, interact with a lady under these circumstances, I'd probably just want to cuddle too. You know what I mean? The sexual pressure seems like so much. Just like, hey, let me just grab on and just take a nap. That sounds nice. Right. So he had just described, you know, while he was telling me all of the things that happened, you know, that if he wanted sex, he could have had that. that, you know, in Guatemala, you know, and he wasn't looking for that.

He had a rough couple of weeks, whatever was going on, you know. Again, he expressed that to me, but I didn't know the truth of that, you know. But he looked like he had just been in the fight of his life, you know, like he was returning from war or something. You know, there was just a heaviness to his presence, you know. And so So I would imagine Just being able to

To feel safe Enough to relax Enough right To go into a deep enough sleep Where you're getting rest You know I would imagine that was That was extremely important to him

Which is why I guess he paid me $1,000 for it Because I mean it was just a cuddle Right I mean that was nothing special about it One fifth of his net worth Right. Right.

That's a hefty price. Right. Especially for a guy that's just getting on his feet. Yeah. So then how do you go from here, you know, in this interaction, this moment, to then going to Oregon? So for whatever reason, well, I should say, John, he, there was a graphic novel that was being written about his, you know, his saga in Belize and kind of just about his life in general. And the artists lived in Portland. Now, I'm not sure if that's the.

only reason why we went to Portland because it actually never made any sense to me why he chose Portland. And so he was purchasing a pickup truck and we were going to drive from Tennessee to Portland. Now, unbeknownst to me at the time, the reason for the drive was because he was stopping. Each place that we stopped at and spent the night at was somewhere where he had buried some sort of emergency cash funding, whatever it was. I don't know exactly what it was, but he later shared with me that that's what he was doing because he would disappear for hours at a time, sometimes, you know, a whole day I wouldn't see him. So this is what he was doing.

What was one of the towns you stopped in? Oklahoma. We were somewhere in Oklahoma, an exact town, I don't know. Pull up into some random place in Oklahoma, and then you get into a hotel. Well, random to me, but not to be. Yeah. And you get into a hotel and then he just says, hey, I'll come back later. Did he come back with, like, a bag?

No. I never saw what he came back with. So I would imagine maybe he stashed it somewhere in the truck. But you didn't see it in the truck? No. Interesting. Do you know how much money roughly was in each cash? I have no idea.

That's so fascinating. And I'm sorry, I skipped a step, actually. You went from Miami to Tennessee first. Yes, I skipped a step, actually. And what brought you to Tennessee? So, because he was there. And that's when he was in Tennessee because of his head of security, who had worked for him for over 20 years at that point, that's where he was his home base. Got it.

So that's where he went to. And then I went and met him from Miami there in Tennessee. And then we drove together to. Now, was he going to meet up with his head of security for security purposes or because that was just someone close to him that he was still in regular contact with? Probably both. I see. Yeah, because I was with him. Yeah.

And so John Laterale told me that I was actually, he had a dossier on me, I guess if he could call it a dossier. So he had a choice between myself and two other hoes, I guess, of who tickled his fancy, I guess. I don't know. So he knew about me. He knew enough about me. And I'm assuming his security would have as well. And so I'm just thinking about this now, actually,

just because of what you asked me, you know, security purposes of why he would have met with his security. But I think it makes sense that he would have met him for security reasons in the sense that he maybe needed someone to keep an eye on the pimp, right, to see, like, let's just monitor that situation. because obviously I was being monitored by John himself, right? And so he wouldn't need to have me monitored by anyone else, right? And so perhaps, again, to monitor that situation

and maybe what he would get it up to knowing that I was with John, you know, just to kind of keep him safe on the back end, I guess maybe. Right, because you are working for a pimp. Yes. And as far as that industry goes, I mean, unfortunately, you were sort of under the purview of this person and property in a way. Again, I don't know exactly the terminology to use in this instance, but it doesn't seem like there's very much a employer-employee situation.

You can't quit freely necessarily. Right, exactly. There's a due that has to be paid. So how does that go from you basically getting out of this, you know, borderline trafficking situation? It took time And it took time mostly because of me Right and I had to There was just a fear there

I wasn't afraid for myself But I was afraid for my children Because very quickly the cartel got into this situation So Once we got to Portland I had to leave I should also say John did a lot of

off-roading before I met him during and before he left for Belize. So I'm assuming this would have been the time where he would have been stashing. Yeah. A lot of off-roading was that was kind of his thing that he liked to do off-roading. And so, okay, brief intermission. So back to the Pimp. So everyone knew in our small Pimp and Whole World, they all knew that I was with John McAfee. And so everyone's got their ideas

And I was like, oh yeah, pimping, we see you, you know, you got this big thing, whatever, whatever, right? So it was the talk of the town. Yeah. Now, I'm not sure when the pimp was approached by Francois, who was the cartel representative. But we had, we, myself and the pimp, we parted ways and shortly after I had gotten back to Portland

So what happened was we arrived in Portland. I had to then leave Portland to go back to Miami to close out a court case that I had. And until they were just going to basically say, okay, you're free and clear because I had adhered to all of the stipulations as a deferred judgment. And so they were just going to close out the case. So I was there with a pimp. There was a lot of discussion. He was talking about, well, maybe he can pay you $50,000 or maybe you can take pictures or take videos and sell it to the tabloids. make money that way and there was just a lot of i'm not sure what what he was thinking of because like

what is he going to pay me 50 000 for you know like that's an insane amount of money for i've done nothing to to earn that but anyways but he sees you as as an asset of his and if john takes you away then he's losing money exactly and so um so when i got back to portland again after after after leaving, I told the pill, I didn't, I wasn't going to be with him anymore. And it was over essentially. And then John took the phone and there was a lot of back and forth going on. And so then John finally said, listen, if you come to Portland, you're going to leave in a body bag. And so then John said, it's not a thread.

It's just I'm just telling you what's going to happen. And so, you know, the pimp is cussing and it's screaming. And so we hang up the phone and that's that for a few months, right? then John and I get into an argument he kicks me out now mind you I don't have money because I'm not working right I don't have a regular job and I'm not you know a prostitute anymore so the money that I had access to was John's money and I wasn't allowed to touch that you know when he kicked me out so I called one of my regular clients who you know had in the past you know helped me out financially and he sent me some money to get a hotel and then I came up with a brilliant idea that

I would call the pimp and ask him for some money. And then I would use that money to fly home to California to get back to my family. Okay, but instead of the pimp sending me money, he sends me for Ensois, the cartel representative. So he comes, we do our business, he pays me. And then just before he leaves, he's saying, he says to me, hey, you know, listen, I know you know John McAfee and, you know, I want to talk to you about him or whatever. And I was like, well, I don't know who John McAfee is. I don't know this person.

And he was like, okay, well, listen, you know, I know you're Pimp and I know, John McAfee, so it's cool. You know, we're going to have a meeting and, you know, we'll tell you more of the details. So anyways, fast forward to the meeting. This meeting is in Portland? Yes, in Portland. So this cartel head comes to Portland to meet you. Yes. Wow.

So from the time you get kicked out to the time this guy meets you, it was probably a- about a week. And in that week where you had the money from a former client to put you up. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. I mean, the fact that this guy came all the way from... Wherever he came.

Wherever. Sorry. Sorry. Somewhere South Florida. Who knows? All the way up to Portland. That's a long trip. Yeah.

Yeah. So it seems like this was the motive the whole time. Yes. I believe so. To basically give you this offer that you'll share. Yes. So there was a Pimp from Portland and another Pimp from California that was also at this meeting. But Francoisle was in a luncheon.

the phone. And so on the phone, he then reveals that he, you know, is represented, representing the cartel, this in a lower cartel, and that they want to use me as their inside man to just give them information about John. So like his whereabouts, guns that he may have, security he may have, kind of his just his comings and goings, yeah? And in the pimp and hoe, world when you're around when you're with your pimp around other pimps you're to be seen and not heard right and so the fact that i was very vocally saying i'm not doing none of this like i'm not doing this you guys are crazy like this is not in front of two other pimps yeah was a was a massive no-no um and so my my pimp dismissed me into the bathroom um but i'm like what the hell is going on you

So now I'm like sufficiently like alarmed, you know, of what's going on. What has he gotten himself into and thereby gotten me into? So when I come out, the other parent from California threatened me, you know, and my family, you know, that if I snitch that we would all be murdered. And the reason I bring that up is because my family, my parents had lived in the same home at that point for over 30 years. They had the same routine. They didn't vary from that routine.

My children went to the school that I went to. They were easily findable, you know, very easily to pay anyone $5,000 to shoot up the house, $10,000 if you want them to target someone specifically in the house, right? And so this was the concern. And this was always and only the concern, my children. Because now I had at this point, you know, when, so while, John and I were driving from Tennessee to Portland. This is leading up to New Year's.

And by New Year's Day, we were in California, and John is now driving me to my parents' home because he's like, you know, it's time. You know, it's time for you guys to reconcile. Mind you, like, we're talking. Like, we're talking, you know, all, you know, deep things and all of the things. And for me, I was just nervous about going back

because I didn't know how I. would be received because the last that I heard from my dad was I wasn't allowed to come, don't come, don't call, don't write. And so that's what I did and why I stayed gone. Your father obviously had objections to your lifestyle at that point. Of course. Of course, but he also didn't know what was going on. He didn't know that I was being beaten, you know, and I just couldn't tell him that.

He had made his assumptions about who and what I was. So there probably would have been no sympathy on he probably wouldn't have believed me. Anyways, and I actually took John to tell him what I had actually been living through before he could be willing to hear it from me, you know? So anyways, by New Year's Day, you know, I had gone and I had seen my family. So then fast forward back again to this meeting, which happened about April, April-ish of 2013, you know, this is what I'm thinking of.

You know, I've come back into their lives and I'm bringing this danger with me now, you know? And so initially, initially I wasn't sure what to do. I just knew that I couldn't tell John because he probably wouldn't have believed me and he probably wouldn't have helped me. And he probably would have done something

that would put my family in danger. Right? So he probably would have called the pimp, threatened him. I don't know. Something would have happened that could have put my children in danger, right? And that was my concern just to protect them. You think John wouldn't have believed you that the cartel was trying to get a beat on him? I don't think he would have believed that I was not a willing participant. You know, that I wasn't willingly cooperating with my PIM. that at that point he was concerned potentially about, you know, your allegiance. Right, right. Because I had been with the Pimp

almost 10 years. Right. And so for him and his, and the people around him, you know, his security, this was a concern that I would always be loyal to the Pimp because of, you know, how long I spent with him.

And so I decided that my best bet was to just play along as best I could without putting John in any real danger, okay, but also fulfilling the obligation of being cooperating with them. It was extremely stressful. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I got to tell you a story.

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for sponsoring this program and making this show possible with this paid advertisement. Let's get back to the show. Now, at this point, are you wondering why does the Sinaloa cartel care about John McAvey? Not really,

because I believed John. I believed what he told me about what happened to him in Belize. And for me, I just assumed, I made the assumption that the cartel this situation had to do with what started back there. And I say that because when the night that I met John and we were talking,

you know, we were talking for all those hours, he was sitting. So the way that the restaurant was set up was that there was a ground level and then an upper level, right? And then until there was like a little wall area. So anyways, his back was against the wall. But I was watching him the whole time, like, you know, watching people walk by, watching the cars, getting licensed, like all doing all. the things that I would do as a working girl just to try to keep myself safe, right? Because it's a very dangerous job, right?

And so I felt that there was a sense of danger that he felt that he was in just from that first night. But then also there was the cab driver that came. So the next day, John went to go and do an interview and he invited me to stay. He's like, well, are you going to be here when I get back? And I was like, oh, yeah, of course. You know, because I thought that was it. You know, asks me to stay. You asked me to leave.

Right. And so he said, you know, you can go down and get breakfast and just charge it to the room. So that's what I did. And I'm sitting in front of the hotel waiting for my breakfast and a cab driver pulls up, parks right in front of the hotel. And he walks directly over to me. And he said, hey, I know you're with John McAfee. Can you tell him that his cab driver's here?

And again, I was like, you know, I don't know who you're talking about. I don't know John McAfee. And I can't help you. And he was like, okay, right. Just tell him that his cab driver is here. And so for me, again, this is just raising the alarms for me because nobody knew I was with him except for my pimp and the other hoe that I was with. Obviously the night manager, but by that time, they would have been gone, right? There would have been the day shift people would have been there, right?

So for this person to have found out To me that meant that there was something else that was happening Especially when I told John that his cab driver You know, was there and was waiting for him And he said he didn't have a cab driver Right, so already So off-rip in your relationship You understand that he's being surveilled in some capacity

And that there are one or multiple groups of people Trying to have information on his whereabouts So when you're told that the Sina Loans are trying to, you know, watch him. You don't dig too much deeper, but you go, yeah, of course. This jives with what he's told me and what I've already experienced. Now, in hindsight, do you believe that the Sinalowans were doing work on behalf of the people in Belize or the Belizeian government? Or do you think that was a separate...

I think they were hired. I think they were hired because the cartel can operate freely here in America, right, with impunity. basically. And they have been forever, actually, well, for however long they've existed, right? And so in hindsight, this is why the cartel, because again, you could very easily operate. They have their operations, their drug operations, their human trafficking operations that have been able to work again with impunity, right? And so who better to hire? And so who better to hire? And You can't hire official people, right? That's not an official situation.

So it has to be kind of clandestine, right? And it also has to be clandestine in a way that it's almost like gangstocking, right? Where we could talk about it and we probably sounded crazy saying the things that we were saying that people were. In fact, people thought that John was crazy. They always called him paranoid and, you know, a madman and all of the things. things, but it was difficult to just sort of capture what we were experiencing, you know, on camera or in a picture. Like, you wouldn't know.

Like, I could show you a picture of a car and say, oh, this is what the car was doing, but you wouldn't, you wouldn't know that. You would just see a picture of a car and how would you, you wouldn't understand the danger that it was. You understand what I'm trying, how I'm trying to explain that. Yeah. So. Yeah.

Yeah. And there's also one piece of data doesn't capture the pattern of data that you guys might be experiencing, right? Like if there's the same car outside your home at the same time every day, that might feel different to you than, you know, just showing me a picture of a car being like, look, it's watching us. And I'd be like, what do you mean? That's just a car, right? Right. So you guys are noticing patterns of behavior. And I mean, would you say John was paranoid? Yeah.

But justifiably. Justifiably. I was, but I would say that I was actually the most paranoid of the two of us. Right. Because I had no idea exactly what was going on, whereas he had more details of what was happening. You also have a lot on the line. Yeah, yeah. And it was very intense.

It was super stressful, so intense. I was being followed even when I would go to see my children. By whom? By cartel people, Spanish people. And so the assumption was that they were cartel people. And when you say followed? Like when I would go out, because we would go and do things, you know, fun things, or arcade or a restaurant or the movies or something until we would be followed.

So much so that my son pointed out to me one time. Like, hey, mom, that car is following us because I didn't tell them what was going on, but just coming from my background, I guess, it just made sense for me to kind of share this with them. you know what I'm saying? And just kind of teaching them how to stay safe, right? How to be aware of their surroundings at all times, you know, how to, you know, if you have your phone, you know, don't be so engaged with your phone that you're not watching and looking what's happening around you.

You know, if somebody's like kind of standing near you or kind of watching you, pay attention to that, you know, because you may not be in danger, but you might be. And so you want to be able to make sure that you're just being a little bit. aware of your surroundings. And so I was actually kind of proud to know that he was listening. You know, he was paying attention to that. So it was the same car, same license plate that was showing up in different places? No, it was just a situation where I had already clocked this vehicle following us.

I think we were coming from an amusement park or something. But I had already clocked, like I said, I had already clocked it. And I was already kind of being watchful of it in the rearview. And he noticed, I guess he had been watching long enough to notice that the car had been following as well. And followed you to your home? No, not to our home, but just close enough to it. Close enough to it. Interesting.

Yeah. And I've heard different things about gangstocking. Again, I'm not an expert in this. But there are certain people that are legitimately gangstocked. And then there are other people that have these sort of paranoid delusions of gangstocking and both exist. Yes. How are you confident that yours is the former version and not being in a period of high stress and anxiety from this legitimate threat and then seeing things around you that, you know, make you feel as though you're being gangstocked?

Were there specific pieces of little evidence that you would see that you would be like, oh, this is? No. Mostly it was just it's just a knowing. You know, I don't know how to explain it other than in that way. You just know, right? But I wouldn't say anything. I wouldn't say anything to John or anyone because I needed to assess within myself. Because sometimes it was like sometimes it could have been, okay, no, that wasn't nobody, right?

Even though they look suspicious that that was nothing. Just Mexican dude. Right. So I would keep it because we lived in California. Yeah, of course. I still live in California, but, you know, so obviously. But there's just a difference. There's just a difference and there's just a knowing, you know.

But because I wanted to make sure I wasn't being paranoid, I wouldn't say anything. Right. Because I wanted to assess it for myself because I could be wrong sometimes. But definitely the threat was definitely real, for sure. but also that threat was neutralized rather quickly by John. He somehow had gotten the phone number of the man who was the head of the Senolora cartelow at the time, John Zabeney. And I think he was like the second in command because I think this was during a time

when El Chapo, when El Chapo was on the run, because he went on the run twice before that final time when they were able to keep him in custody. And so there's actually a recording of John. There's a YouTube, it's up on YouTube where he actually calls, he calls Mr. Zabonay and has him on speakerphone and basically saying, you know, my wife is being followed. to have people, you know, following my wife

and basically she's, you know, not feeling safe or whatever and Mr. Zabini saying, oh no, Mr. John, it's not me, it's not me. And John basically telling him to, you know, to figure out who it is and, you know, see synthesis, if you will. And so I will say not long after that conversation, there was just a difference in when I was, you know, returning to California where I was always being watched, you know, And so it was either by John's people or the Sinolao cartel people, the cartel people.

And were you being watched in Portland? Yes. Got it. Watched and listened to. Yeah. Listen to how? Through my phone, through whatever electronics means. This was the assumption that was later confirmed.

Of course, I was being watched and listened to. You know, John had private. security that were only there to keep him safe, obviously. And to them, I was the biggest threat. I was the only threat, right? And so, yeah, I was being watched and listened to it. Not only in Portland, but like I said, when I would go back to California with my kids, my cars were bugged.

My car was bugged. I must say it was bugged. For sure, I was bugged. John told me later on once we got rid of the car. You told me, yeah. Just to be like, hey, I had to keep tabs on you. Yeah, I mean, but I knew that. Right.

The assumption was this, oh, and I should, let me briefly tell you that story. So I remember I said when I went back to briefly to Miami and the pimp was saying, oh, you should take video and picture of John sell it to the tabloids or maybe he'll give you $50,000. Okay, so then when I came back, the day that I came back, myself and John's head of security that had been working for him over 20 years, we arrived at the same time. So we're in the elevator going up to our rooms. And he just very randomly, the head of security says his name was John as well, John Poole. But anyways, he just randomly says, oh, yeah, and I brought that 50K in cash that you wanted me to bring.

And so immediately, to me, I'm immediately, my mind goes to, that's a very specific number. And that's a very specific number that we were talking about in Miami. So obviously, duh, they were listening and maybe watching even, you know, when I was there in Miami. which again completely understandable right did he ever confirm that no but he did but he did say that he that everybody thought I was going to steal the money every everybody thought I was going to steal the money yeah but he he said he wasn't sure when you say steal the money you mean he he had $50,000 cash that he brought to him in his back in the back bag oh really yeah and was it given to you no okay no it was just done had it in the room and then he left for like a few hours

thinking that I was going to, or allowing the opportunity to be created. Yeah. And everyone thought I was going to take the 50K. And it was clear to you that there was money in this bag. Yeah. Did it ever cross your mind? I wanted to look at it. I didn't want to steal it because I never seen $50,000 before.

So I definitely wanted to look at it, but not steal it. No, stealing it never crossed my mind. At that point, I understood that John McAfee was not someone that you wanted to cross. and not because you would lose your life or be in any danger from him, but just because all that he lived through, right, there has to be more to this man than what meets the eye. And I'm not sure that I want to be on the wrong side of that, you understand? And so that's why I didn't, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I think we even spoke about that briefly offline, I think, was like it doesn't it seems plausible that he's someone that will uh you know get even but i don't know if he's someone that will kill to get even because it seems like that would get him jammed up right you know and i don't think he's dumb no he wasn't dumb but he would get even but he's not dumb and so you know with like the the government of belies they you know they do wrong by him and so he says you know what i'm going to find out how i can get my get even which would just be an apology which is all i want and then uncovers far more than even, which sends him into a whole spiral. But that is an indicator to me like, yeah, he's someone that's going to get even,

but he's not going to hire someone to get after the head of the GSU or anything like that. He's someone that's going to use his intelligence and his savvy to get back. And in the same way, I can imagine someone like you being like, hey, I don't want to be on the wrong side of this because I don't know what could happen. Not necessarily you're afraid of your life. Yeah. But you don't want to find out what could be on the other side. Right. I didn't want any problems with his security.

You know, John Poole was, he was a nice enough man. But, yeah, but he was not someone that he wanted to cross. Did you look at the money? No, I didn't look at the money. I didn't touch. I was too scared. I was really too scared because, I don't know. I just was too scared. And then I should tell you this, though, because I'm like,

I was really wanting to look in the bag. It was like, okay, no, I better not. because that might get me in trouble even just looking, you know. And so I went to go smoke a cigarette out in front of the hotel. And, you know, I'm kind of looking around and I see like people are sitting in a parked car. Everybody looks strategically placed, right, to intercept me. In hindsight, I'm saying to intercept me. But just in the moment, it just looked not random, the people that I was seeing that was just kind of hanging about.

And then I noticed this man coming from the other end of the block, right? And he looks like a homeless person and he's sort of limping, you know, kind of limping, right? And as he starts to get closer to me, I notice that he's wearing one black shoe and one white shoe. And then I notice all of a sudden that he's now walking up straight. He's no longer limping back straight and his eyes are locked on me. and he gave me the cult like if looks could kill, I would have been brutally murdered. Okay?

Because that's just how steely-eyed he was, you know? And so, yeah, no, I didn't steal it. But that was kind of unnerving. So I'm just saying these little bitty things are all adding up to me as this is not someone that I want to cross. Right. And especially not for something as stupid is trying to see. still money from him.

Like, that's dumb. I will say that I've had situations where I tried to finesse people out of their belongings, you know, and it didn't go well. So I had already learned that lesson before I met John, you know? And so I was just in a place where that was not an option, not for this situation, not for this man. For you in general. This was a special situation.

And if I, for me, what my mind was on is that if I played my cards right, I could change my life with this, with this relationship or whatever it was. I didn't know what it was going to be. I wasn't looking to be his wife or his girlfriend. I wasn't sure how long he was going to keep me around. But what I knew was that at the end of it, I didn't want to go back to being a prostitute. And you're hearing stories about Amy and you're like, oh, he changed her life. Right.

Maybe my life could change. And who knows what that looks like, but at least I'm not going to have to be on call on the streets. Exactly. While at the same time, self-sabotaging. Right, exactly. So all of this, yeah. Yeah. I mean, people exist in dichotomies, right?

Where it's like, I have dreams where I'm going to do this, but also I'm not going to do the things in order to get to that dream. And I think everyone can relate to that in some capacity. And in your case, it's not different. Yeah. Yeah. I can see how that's a stressful situation. Extremely so. Yeah.

Okay. So you don't touch the money. No. And he comes back and you guys, does he tell you it's a test? No. No, not at that time. This years later, he reveals. Oh, he told you years later?

Yeah. And he said that was. Yeah. Now, I'm so curious because he comes back basically penniless, but then fairly quickly is able to access hundreds of thousands of dollars? Probably, yeah. So maybe at each one of these different places that he stashed money, it was hundreds of thousands?

It had to been a sizable amount of money. Millions? Maybe not that much Maybe a million Right So enough to fund Or maybe two or three million Enough to fund a pretty solid lifestyle

He would have had a lot Well yeah To live comfortably To not have to be worried about money Yeah For sure That's so interesting And did you ever ask him about it?

I never asked him Amount I never asked Because that just wasn't my place And I didn't You know It just wasn't my place It's not something that I thought

to, that I even thought to ask. Did you ever ask how he stashed the money? No. Did you ever confirm that the money was stashed? Yeah, well, he told me himself, you know, later that that's what he was doing, that he was going and collecting money. Fascinating. Wow.

Okay. So now, back to Portland. Yeah. How are you feeding information to, you know, this guy, Francois, as well as the cartel, basically? Not Francois, but I was. was feeding it to the pimp, and then the pimp was disseminating it, yes. What would you tell them in order to keep them happy, but also protect John? Well, that was very easy, because the pimp was always calling me.

He's always calling me, he's always texting me. And he wasn't shy about it, right? And so sometimes he would call back to back to back if I didn't answer. You know, and Jones right here, so I can't answer it in front of John, but not answering it is, you know, so John knows he's seeing what's happening in real time, right, but I can't answer it because I know what the conversation is going to be like, because the pimp was never smart enough to figure out how to have a conversation with me and allow me to answer in a way that's not going to give away what it was that we're talking about in front of John, you know? And so, so this was always my excuse. Like, I can't do whatever you're asking me to do or I can't call you because you're calling. calling me all the time and John's suspicious now and he's watching me and you know so I just can't find a way to do whatever it is the thing that you're asking me to do so it actually worked out

really well I always had a built-in excuse but also Francois worked for John so so that was difficult as well how did he work for John he was working with John to they were going to they were working on a movie, so they were working on a script for a movie, and Francois introduced him to the director. They were, there was the graphic novel also that was being worked on. Was Francois working on that? Yeah, I believe in some way he was, because John said that he had sold his life rights to Francois. And so that's kind of what Francois was working on. Who was this guy?

I don't know. Like, I don't know to, like, I'm sure John knew exactly. That's obviously why he was working for John still. Because I know John knew. I know John knew everything that was happening. I know he knew about the meeting. I know he knew what was said in the meeting, right? I know that he obviously then would have had Francois-well followed or whatever

to figure out. you know how deep of a connection or where the connection extended to right and so um again when i say that john knew exactly what was going on that's that's how right because he he's not stupid right and so he always made sure to understand what was going on around him what were people saying about him what were people you know all of the things right much like much like how the he hired the women to kind of parse through the information from the laptops with the spyware to look for information regarding him or related to him the same thing people were probably put into place or software placed on devices or whatever to just kind of stay abreast of potential danger yeah or

maybe not potential danger but actual real danger yeah yeah and so um i'm sorry if i missed it but i thought you mentioned that francois was involved in some type of organized operating organized crime operation. Yeah. Well, he, what he said during our meeting was that he was representing the cartel. In what capacity? I'm not sure. In what level, I'm not sure what did he do for them or what was his ranking in the order?

I don't know any of that. But John's also working with him in a professional capacity. Yeah. What do you think that's about? So John liked to bring his enemies close, extremely close and that was something that never set well with me ever

ever ever ever because he would hire them as security so they would be living with us it was very intense but he would get the information that he needed to gather John was so smart he was so

smart and he was clever like a fox right and you've heard that saying definitely and so people being in that close proximity to him because a lot of people made assumptions about who John was

because of his public persona, because of them knowing the drugs and all of that. So everyone assumed that this was an active drug addict an active alcoholic even though he has mixology videos and he's like online, if you don't see him drinking

the drink, then nine times out of ten he didn't always drink the drink. He may have sipped it but no one saw all of the glasses that would pile up in our bedroom. It was still full because he didn't drink him. So he played up the role that he needed to play very well. Even with these people living with him, they did not pick up on the fact that he was playing a role. And he was actually playing them to get whatever information he needed out of them. So he was hiring his actual enemies as security? Yes. In what sense? Not all of them.

Sure. But I would say there were a few. What would be an example of an enemy? Don't just say their name in particular, but for what reason were they an enemy? There was one security in particular who actually came from Medellin, Colombia. Okay, so, I mean, you can get any more enemy than that, yeah. And why did he have, he had enemies in Medellin on some cartel connections? Some cartel connection, yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

And he hired this guy after you guys, after you had spoken. This was long after the Cinelloa cartel, long after the pimp was no more. I mean, wait, he's still alive. I didn't mean that. I'm sorry. After we were no longer connected. Yeah. So this came way down the road.

Like just before we were leaving, just before we left the states to go eventually to Spain. I mean, maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems like. negligent to hire someone that you believe is an enemy. No, not for John. No, he... I mean, this guy from Medellin, was he just a Colombian dude that did security, or he was connected to the cartel? He was definitely.

How do you know? Well, I can't say how I know for sure, but he was definitely. And you're confident that he was? I'm extremely confident that he was probably there to maybe participate in physically disabling John in order for him to be collected. I'm fully persuaded of that. And help me just kind of paint the story, broadly speaking. He crosses these people in Belize.

Collects information that he shouldn't have against high-ranking people in the government, their connections with people, I'm sure, in a cartel and, you know, Belize that are doing illegal activities that the government is aiding and abetting, he has this information, he flees, he's able to get away. The Belizean government or people connected to the government

then are contracting with other organized crime groups that are able to have access to America to find him. And so they're reaching out to their contacts, like, hey, can you get a beat on this guy? Do you know who he is? Can you find him? And it ultimately works its way to people close to you that then get in touch with you and say,

hey, you are as close as you can get to John McAfee. I need you to get us information on him and his whereabouts so that we can ultimately collect him. Right. Is that more or less the... Right, more or less, yeah. But there's all these moving parts. So I was just the inside person,

but then you had Francois and then you had all of the things that I wasn't privy to that were probably happening as well. You know, we were at that time, we were traveling, and John was doing keynote speeches, and so we would have questionable people that would be, you know, there. that would try to come up to John afterwards and get in his face, or not in his face, but just get close to him.

Now, again, these situations could have been nothing. We could have just been being hyper-vigilant. But there was always this threat of potential danger, right? And then also I need to say as well that, yes, the information he collected was directly related to the Malaysian officials and all of that. but imagine who they would have been doing business with outside of Belize. Right. Okay.

And the type of people that come to Belize. Right. These are legal crime networks. Wealthy, wealthy people, right, who are not just Belizeon. Potentially Americans. Exactly. Yeah. And so now I think we're touching on a little bit more where, why the threat was so persistent, you know,

because of the information and how far out. it probably stretched, you know, and again, why he was seen as such a threat, you know, and why, obviously, they could have killed him at any point in time, right? That was easy. That would have been extremely easy to have him killed. But they needed to collect him to get the information, to find out where the information was and make sure that they had all of it before they did something to happen. Right, because you could get rid of him, but you don't know if he has a dead man switch to basically, publish all the information or reallocate it to someone else who then can, you know, use it. I see. So they can't just get rid of him. Right. Or else that would have happened very, very easily. Right. Yeah. And so I should, and then we can move on, you know, but I do want to share this portion of Portland.

So by the summer, I think it was July of 2013, the Belizean soccer team had come to play soccer in Portland and they were a part of a tournament apparently this was the first time that they'd ever come you know out of Belize to play sorry to play soccer and and it was just very alarming to me that that they were there now in Portland right and so John found out information that I guess all of the all of the players that flew over from did not return when they left. Okay, and so fast forward, you know, a couple of weeks, we start seeing people kind of canvassing our neighborhood.

And so where we lived off of 20th and Hawthorne, we were in a neighborhood where I was the blackest person that lived there, yeah? You know, people would come to the shops, but as far as in the neighborhood where the homes were, I was the standard bearer for the blackness, right? Anyways. And so these people that were then kind of canvassing our area looked Caribbean, right? They looked Belizean.

Well, not Belizeon, but Caribbean, I should say. Black but not American. Not your typical Portland residents. Exactly. And so we lived across the street from there was a pizza place that was there and then an old movie theater. So people would be sitting out. for hours sitting at the tables in front of the pizza place, just maybe have a drink, but not any pizza, you know, longer than one should with just a cup, you know, people would be milling around

in front of the thrift shop that we had, which was across the street this way from our building, you know, just kind of looking at something in the window, but the shop, the thrift shop is not that interesting, right? So obviously they weren't there for that reason. And so John then decided that we would hire, well, we had security that we had at the time. It was a biker couple, male and female, but he hired them, the gentleman to come and live with us. Right. So he would come and spend the nights with us just to make sure we'd stay safe. And so then fast forward to September 11th, 12-ish, there was a news article that came out about John overdosing in Vegas.

casino. And so he was getting calls all that day from people saying, hey, are you okay? What's going on? I saw this article. And he would later tweet about, you know, the reports of his death were greatly exaggerated, something to that effect. And so then after that, maybe a couple days after that, the security was arrested on trumped up. Well, he says trumped up. I don't know how true it was. Anyways, trumped up child abuse charges, right? He said he didn't do it. So anyways, but he's arrested. So now we don't have our live in security anymore.

Do you believe that was coordinated? Yes, of course it was. Also, I should say in August, sometime in August, we had a property manager. Her name was Virginia. And one day she had put on notice on everyone's door that there was going to be new management. And then the very next day there was new management. Now, I'm not familiar with how these things work if they move that quickly, but it just seemed very quick to me. So all of these things are happening right at once.

Then fast forward after the security is arrested, maybe a couple of days, no more than a week. John and I are, we're binge watching Family Guy. We love Family Guy and American Dad as well. But anyways, so we were binge watching Family Guy and I think we took like a bathroom break or something. I don't know. but I haven't to look out of our bedroom window and I saw this pickup truck had pulled up and the person, the driver, got out of the pickup truck

and was slashing a flashlight four times down our street. So the way our apartment sat, it sat on an L shape, right? So we were on the fourth floor and we could see all the corners, the whole, you know, basically neighborhood of where we were, right, the main streets. so we could see everyone coming and going basically. And so when I saw the gentleman flashing the flashlight, I told John about it, and he came to the window,

and he saw him do it again. And so he was like, okay, turn off the lights, turn off the TV. And he's got his binoculars, and he's watching, and he's listening, and he's going from the second bedroom to the living room to our bedroom, just watching. And for me, I haven't put it together that something was happening. happening, right? I'm just like, okay, well, that was strange. You know, and then I'm like, okay, let's go back to watching TV, you know, but he has already put it together of what's

happening or assuming what has happened. And then he kept asking me if I heard motorcycles idling. And I'm like, no, I don't hear anything, you know, like I don't hear what you're talking about. And so I get frustrated. I eventually go and lay down. And then John comes, I think it's about two in the morning, he comes and wakes me up, and he's like not panicked, but he's like urgently trying to just, I guess, panicked, whatever. Anyways, so he comes in and he tells me that they're here and we have to go. And I was like, who's here? What are you talking about? And he said, a sedan pulled up with two motorcycle cops and a garbage truck is here. And he said, we have to go. And I was like, well, where are we going? And I'm like, what is going on? And he's just like,

listen, you can stay here if you want to, but I have to leave. And so I was like, okay, well, I was like, threw something on. And I asked him, I said, well, should we take the gun? And he was like, no, because it might be real cops. So don't take the gun. So we go and we run down the opposite end of the hallway, and we run down into the parking garage. And, you know, John's kind of, of running back and forth like a madman looking for somewhere for us to hide. Now, our apartment building was on top of a coffee shop and a dental office. And so there were doors that led into each of these businesses. And so John's trying to see if the doors are unlocked.

There are also storage closets in there as well. So he's checking all of these doors, none of them are unlocked. So he goes into the trash room where the big, you know, rolling garbage bin is. And he said, okay, let's get in here. Let's hide in here. And I was like, hell no, that's gross. And so he was like, fine. And so he turned the light off.

And now he's looking and he's like, okay, well, can you climb up here? So in the parking garage, there was a lower level. It was like an elevator system sort of thing, a lower level, main level, and then upper level. And so he's like, well, can you climb up here? And we're going to hide under a car. So I climbed up there. And I remember I had a dress on. And I remember pulling the dress, you know,

under me because I was like, okay, well, I don't know what's happening, but let me just play along here. Like, this might be real danger. And so I'm glad I did that because had I not, if they would have just bent over, they would have saw my dress hanging and they would have seen us under the vehicle. But anyways, so the parking garage, the light, in the parking garage, the lights are motion detectives. So naturally they are on while we're running around like crazy. And I'm thinking, And once we get settled on the car and the lights finally go off, I'm thinking this is crazy. We're going to get kicked out of our apartment because there's cameras in the parking garage.

And I'm thinking like once they see this, they don't kick us out. Like, what are you guys doing? Running around like crazy people in the middle of the night in the parking garage. And are you suspicious at this point? Do you think John's like going a little crazy? No, I think he went a little crazy. I seriously thought he lost the plot. But I was like, okay, I'm just going to, I'll go along with this, whatever.

Because in your position, if he's feeling crazy, you're dealing with a crazy dude. Right. And it's like, okay, I'm not going to fight with him about it. Exactly. Let me just follow along. I will say that I did hear the garbage truck idling outside, but still, I haven't put it together yet.

And so the lights go off, were settled. All of these thoughts are going through my mind, and then you hear a click of the key fob unlocking the door, and then the lights come up. in the garage, but you don't hear anyone. You don't see anyone. Well, of course, you don't see anyone

because we're hiding, but you don't, you don't, you don't hear, you don't hear any feet, you know, walking, you'd hear nothing, but you can feel the movement of someone moving through the garage. Do you see feet from underneath the car? I couldn't see the way that I was positioned.

I couldn't see anything. I couldn't see shadows. I could see nothing. But obviously, someone was in there because the light stayed on all night. And then in the lobby, you could hear people now, like, maybe not arguing, but they were loud. They were very loud. You could hear people running up the stairs from the first floor.

Obviously, you couldn't hear them going all the way up, but you heard enough to know that there was a lot of commotion that was happening in the lobby. And so I would say then about three or four in the morning, maybe four in the morning, the garbage bin gets rolled out. The click of the fob happens again, and you hear the gate of the garage, the parking garage open. And then the garbage bin gets rolled out to the garbage truck. You hear the garbage truck doing its thing, you know, lifting the garbage bin and then doing the dump. and all of that. Obviously, how do I know that? A garbage truck sounds very familiar. We all know what a garbage truck sounds like, right? So that's how I knew it was a garbage truck without seeing that it was actually a garbage truck. And so the garbage was compressed and then the bin was

rolled back into the room and then maybe half an hour later you hear someone yell out, fuck! And I'm assuming that's because they realized we weren't in the garbage truck. And so now it's getting closer to five in the morning and now their window of time is now ending of whatever them trying to collect us is now ending because people will start to get up and you know to go to work and everything so um maybe about another half or half hour or so later the lights finally go off in the parking garage and it gets quiet in the lobby the truck the garbage truck drives away or it's no longer idling so it's gone now And then about seven in the morning, the property manager, a gentleman named Connor,

he comes into the video room where the TVs, I guess, for the video cameras would have been. And he stays in there for like 30 seconds and he leaves out. And so then maybe about 9 o'clock, we finally decide to get up and get from under the vehicle before whoever decides they need to come to work and sees us hiding. And so we go up to our apartment, we collect some belongings, we get dressed. Was anything in the apartment moved? Not that I noticed, no, but our dog was freaked out. She didn't move.

So normally when we come to the door, she's at the door, greeting us at the door, tail wagging, you know, how dogs are. But she didn't, she didn't, you know. And I remember John opening the door and he's calling out to her, but she never moved. she never came to him, but she was right on her bed with the door open, but she just didn't come until it's like, oh, no, something happened to her. Like, I'm noticing, like, that's the weird behavior for her, like, you know. So anyways, we called the girlfriend of the security that had been arrested because strengthened numbers. You know, we wanted to have somebody with us because we were going to leave town.

We were driving out of town that day. So we, as we're leaving our apartment with what belongings we had in our hand, our neighbor who lived right next to the elevator, she was coming out of her apartment at the same time. So while we're waiting for the elevator to come, John's asking her, you know, hey, did you hear anything strange last night? And she was like, yeah, I did. You know, I was just going down and ask the manager if there was something going on because I heard so much noise and commotion.

People were like running in the hallway and there was a lot of noise and talking. and she was just saying she was just concerned that maybe was there an emergency or something that happened. So again, just further confirmation for us, not that we needed it. We get downstairs, the manager is then talking to our neighbor, but he doesn't see us, so we're behind him. And while he's talking to our neighbor, and then we come from behind him, and when he looks at us, his face goes white. Like all of the blood is immediately drained from his face, which obviously, I thought was a strange reaction, you know. And I guess John would later find out that he was somehow a part of this situation,

not necessarily a part of the danger or the threat, but just to be a witness there, right, to do any cleanup that may have needed to happen or like getting the surveillance footage, right? So nobody would have that. And so John was like, yeah, it was a strange night last night. And what I have expected him to say was, yeah, why were you guys running around in the parking garage like crazy people in the middle of the night? But he didn't even say that, you know. So these are just things that I was marking in my mind.

Again, John would have had further information than I was privy to, which he would later find out that the building was actually sold. and he followed the money and apparently the person that it was sold to was somehow connected to to well maybe I shouldn't get too much into that but he was able to trace the money and find out some very

unnerving things about the people that had bought the buildings and their sort of connections to other nefarious operations So that was kind of my introduction into how serious of a situation I found myself in, right? And whatever the pimp was involved in was nothing in comparison to this massive operation. And again, for me, just in my simple mind, not having any experience in a situation like this before, I'm just assessing that this would have cost a lot of money for whoever put this plan into action.

It would have cost them a lot of money to execute this plan. And this was far above the PIMS pay grade. And so I was sufficiently scared after that. So as far as cops and garbage trucks being outside of the property, Did you see them or you just heard the garbage truck when you were running down? I only heard the garbage truck. I heard the garbage truck idling. I heard the garbage truck doing its thing to lift the garbage bin up and the compressing noises.

And I heard it drive away. Now, as far as the sedan and the police motorcycles, I don't know. But I do know. I can verify that the garbage truck was there for sure. So what is, again, there's a few different plausible explanations. here. One is that there happen to be police motorcycles there for an unrelated incident and there's a garbage

truck that is there for some other reason doing garbage collection late or something but that seems sort of unlikely. Because that's not the normal collection time. Right, for a garbage truck to be there at 2 in the morning. It's possible that John is having some delusion where he thinks that he's being followed

by these people because he's extremely paranoid and is seeing things that aren't actually there. Which is definitely what I thought. Right. Before everything. got started yeah right and then there's another option maybe a few other options but one is that there are fake police officers that were hired to effectively carry out a hit on john and anyone he may be with right or a collection or a collection now when you say collection can you clarify that um collecting him they wanted to um get him in their custody right so they could then um get access to the information

Yeah, I'm sure I would have been murdered, like, instantly because there was nothing that I needed, that they needed me for. Right, and you're a liability, potentially. Now, getting a garbage truck, it's either a privately owned garbage truck or it's something that they've coordinated with, and then you'd basically be collected with the garbage truck. Is that the theory? Right. So I'm sure you've thought about this moment. How would it have worked had they been successful? I don't know.

Like I said, I probably would have been dead immediately. Right, the garbage truck would have taken us somewhere to where they could have safely gotten John out of, you know, the garbage bin. I'm assuming it wouldn't have killed us. It would have just incapacitated us, you know. And then at that point, you know, probably a bullet in my head and probably them, you know, guns pointing at him and just, you know, it's over Mr. McAfee. So you're coming with us. And maybe he would have tried to fight his way out of it. Or, I don't know. And then from there, I don't know.

I've actually never really fully thought about that, honestly. But I'm assuming something like that. Now, when we talk about the security, this biker couple, that was arrested on, you know, like ostensibly some type of trumped-up child abuse charge, that would require some type of coordination with the local government? or do you think it's possible that they put in like a fraudulent claim

it could have been a fraudulent claim I think so that's easy enough to do I'm curious about the depth of how it would go is it possible that the government is involved in the United States I don't think so at all

I think it's just very easy to pay a cop to put up a report you know or to pay somebody to do a thing that's very easy to do right especially if you're paying them sufficient amount of money right and obviously obviously you would have already done your homework enough to know who would be the one that you would approach, right?

I don't have a high regard for the police, but I think it's very well known that they are very easily bribeable, right? It's very rare that you have a cop whose hands are clean, right? So I'm assuming it would not have been difficult to find someone to play ball, right? But I do think that they could have been real cops. They could have been real cops who were paid to just, you know. The strange thing was that they were on their motorcycles. Because motorcycle, to the best of my knowledge, motorcycle cops don't, they're not on their motorcycles at nighttime because that's dangerous for them.

You know, that's a danger to them physically, right? To be out on a motorcycle, right? You're going to be in your cop car, not on that motorcycle. So that was really strange to me. But again, for me, it just, it's not difficult to find the people that you need to play ball, right? Whether you're paying them or whether you're coercing them in some other way, right? Threatening them personally or threatening their loved ones. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is just, it's so wild. Yeah. And like living through it must be like, like, so terrifying because you're going through all the emotions that I'm sure I'm going through where you're like what is going on who's involved in this and you're trying to put it all together but I have the luxury of not being in real danger yeah you had to do it while thinking on your

feet trying to not not die yeah pretty stressful very stressful like I'm curious with the security guard like if you're going to pay the cops to arrest him I wonder if you could just pay him to flip him. Possibly. And just be like, hey, how much is, you know, 50,000 of you to get you to, you know, take this guy out? I don't, I don't, well, hmm, I'm sure that might have been, and maybe he was approached, and maybe that's why he was arrested, because he wasn't willing to play ball. Right.

You know, I mean, because the people that John hired were not stupid. Like, even, like, even in my situation. the thing I kept coming back to of why I couldn't do the things they were asking me to do and why I was very limited on the things, on the information I did give them, is because he would obviously know it was me. Like there's no one else around here

that I could shift the blame on, right? So it's going to always come back to me, right? And so if nothing else, I'm, you know, I'm all about my own survival, right? And there's no way to give them one. Right. Exactly. Even if I wanted to.

I would always come back to me. I would, you know, the blame would be laid at my feet. Did you ever explain to John explicitly that you were basically proposition to... I did come clean with him eventually, yeah. How long did that take? 2014. Okay. So...

And when you told him, what did you say? He was upset. He was upset, but he was more disappointed than upset. Disappointed at some of the things that I had done because it put him in danger in a way that I just didn't consider. Do you have a specific example you can share? No. I'd rather not.

But he understood, right, he understood the situation that I understand. was in but but also I guess again some of the things that I did were just put him directly it could have put him directly in danger from from maybe people taking matters into their own hands you know it is possible he knew he knew what that you had been solicited yeah he knew for sure so when you told him he wasn't surprised no it was I wasn't surprised at all. I think he was relieved that we were finally having the conversation because we were always sort of having the conversation without having it because I can, okay,

so very quickly what they were wanting me to do, which was just giving them information, very quickly changed into, okay, park the car over here. The assumption was so they can do something to disable it or put a tracker on it or something. And then I was given a substance, a grainy substance, and I was told to put that in his food. And I wasn't sure what it would do to him. I'm assuming incapacitate him in some way. How were you given the substance?

From the pimp. And he met with you. He met with me on the street, like not far from our apartment building. Just that old meeting place. Yeah, he was just calling me, calling me, calling me, like harassing me, calling me to the point where I remember it actually. I told John that I wanted to go get some ice cream or something from 7-Eleven, which was like really close to our apartment.

And so what I did first was I went and met with a pimp, and then he gave me the substance. And I went to 7-Eleven and I went straight back to our apartment. Yeah. Did you ever consider using the substance? No. I should have just thrown it away, but in the moment, in the moment, I just needed to get back to the apartment because I had been out far longer than what could have been explained of what I was purchasing, right?

It's 7-Eleven. You're not doing like a big, you know, grocery shopping thing at the 7-Eleven. So I just had it in my pocket, and I just went quickly to 7-Eleven and went back to the apartment. And I remember stuff in it and my nightstand in the back of the drawer, but I just left it there. You know, I was thinking, like, like, how can I get rid of this? But maybe I was just putting too much thought into that. So eventually I did throw it away. I threw it out.

We were cooking. We were going to cook, John and I, one day we were going to cook. But John got busy on the phone. So I got hungry and I decided to cook. And so he came out of the bedroom and he stands in the doorway and he said, oh, you cooked. He's like, he's like, crap. She did it. And so I think just in hindsight, I think that was the reaction.

It was like, damn, she did it. I know she put it, you know, because I don't think he was expecting me to. Again, I think that he knew that I was given this for sure. And I think that when I cooked, he was just disappointed. that I had actually, you know, went ahead with putting the substance in the food, which I did not. Did he eat the food? Yeah, he did eat the food. But what happened was, you know, I said, yeah, I cooked.

I was hungry. And you were taking a long time. And so it's like, okay. And I was like, well, do you want me to make you a plate? And he was like, yeah, you make it. So he's watching me. So I'm already thinking what he's thinking. I'm assuming that he's thinking that I put this stuff in the food.

So I stir the food around. It was just some noodles and broccoli and chicken. So I made it sure I stirred it all up so he could see I wasn't like addition from. Yeah, it's all the same. And I give him his food and he starts to toss some of the noodles to our dog, tequila. And, you know, then he was waiting for their, you know, to see if she was going to get sick. And he later told me that. And so your reaction too.

Yeah, he later told me he did that because he knew that I loved the dog and I would never, you know, allow him to get. give her the food if there was something wrong with it. Did he wait for you to eat? No, no. Once he saw how, you know, that I allowed her to eat the food, he was convinced that everything was cool. And he did eat. They didn't eat all of it, but he ate.

This is a wild relationship up until this point. Yeah. That both of you know, hey, I met with someone to try to kill you. Yeah. But I'm not going to. Yeah. And he's seeing this. and you're simultaneously gaining trust with him

because you're not violating your relationship but also you're not telling him the full truth of what's happening but he already knows so somehow there's trust being built and being eroded at the same exact time and this goes on for years until you eventually tell him where are you living when you tell him?

We actually had to leave the states but we were staying in Tennessee at the head of securities home in Tennessee, John Poole's home. Back at Poole's Place. Yeah, and so, but we went to, we went to Maine first. I don't even know why we went to Maine. And this is just relevant only because we bought phones while we were in Maine.

But John, instead of paying cash for the phone, to use our bank card at the cellular one store. And why is that significant to you? Well, this becomes relevant. later, not long after this. So then we leave Maine and we go to Boston. Now we go to Boston because we're meeting with Francois, who is bringing a director who will do the documentary style thing because we have now been filming. We had been filming with a different crew of people and Francois actually came to my parents' home. So it's so crazy, all of the things that were

happening and just the stress that is continually building for me. So he came to my parents' home because we're filming there, right? Because it's kind of our story and, you know, John's story and all of the things, yeah. Does he tell you that he's going to your parents home? Yeah, no, he comes with us. John. Francois comes with us with John when one of the visits we were going on to see the kids. And this is a preliminary visit before you actually film? Yeah. And so, so back to So we're meeting now with a different director. This was why we were in Boston. But then John and I get into a fight.

I leave the hotel to go, I just need to get some air, right? And I'm looking for a store. So I come out and there's like a bus depot next to this parking garage, which is right next to our hotel. And someone standing at the bus stop. And I asked him, hey, is there a store around here? And so he says, yeah, I just cut through this parking garage and it's right there. and immediately after I go through the parking garage

there's a gentleman sitting in a car right outside the parking garage with his windows down not smoking a cigarette not reading not on the phone not doing anything just sitting there and so immediately I'm like well that was stupid and okay and you never go into a parking garage you know but it's a dangerous place for women and I knew that but anyways

so I was like okay I'm not going back the hotel that way. And so I get my red bull and some cigarettes, and then there's a bus stop that's in front of the store. So I sit there just to watch the sky and to kind of watch the foot traffic, car traffic. And so nothing's really happening. So I decide to then go and start making my way back to the hotel.

So I cross back across the street, but I go behind this vehicle that the man is sitting in and he has government plates. So I'm like, okay. All right. So I walk down now. I'm going down because the hotel is just right here across from where I was and then to the right. So now I'm going in the opposite direction to go around the block to come back around to the front of the hotel.

And so I'm walking down the street. This woman is walking now towards me. And something I learned from John that if you feel like something's going on around you, or you just want to check the temperature of what's going on around you. Just stop abruptly. Whatever you're doing, just stop it abruptly. And then kind of watch the chaos that ensues. And so after I passed this woman, that's what I did.

I just stopped abruptly and I took out a cigarette and to smoke it. And she's still walking. And then all of a sudden she turns around and she sees me, see her. And so now she's kind of like, okay, what do I do? And then she decides to go over to this window of this realtor's office. And she's like looking in the window. And so I'm like, and so I'm the butthead that I am sometimes. I say, I see you, ma'am.

So your cover's blown. And again, just making the assumption based off of other experiences that she was, you know, just a spotter. Nothing else, right? Because there's always a spotter when danger is. a foot, right? There's always someone to watch and to say, hey, she's coming this way or they're over here, whatever. So I get to the corner now and I wait there and let the cycle, the red light go through a full cycle before I decide to cross the street. Again, just keeping an eye on foot traffic, car traffic. I don't see anything out of the ordinary. So then I proceed to go down, walk down,

So I make a right at the corner to walk down to make another right at the next corner to then be on the same street at my hotel isn't. So when I get to the next corner, I stay there again assessing foot traffic, car traffic, and then I decide to walk to cross the street just before the light turns, you know, for the oncoming traffic. And all of a sudden out of the, like I don't even know where these men came from because it felt like they just materialized. but I have three people now behind me, three men behind me, black men behind me. Not American black men, though. So I'm not sure if they're Caribbean, just regular clothes. They're not government officials. These are just regular street dudes.

And so now I'm on high alert. Then I look, as I'm just assessing what's ahead of me, I see a gentleman, a Mexican dude, sit. in the window. So the window of this business that was on the corner, it had like a little seating area, not necessarily a seating area. It's just a part of the building,

but he was sitting on it. And he had tattoos on his hand, tattoos on his face, right? And he's sitting across from a panel van with, you know, no windows except for the, you know, two passenger side. windows and then the windshield, right? And so, you know, immediately I recognize what that was because whenever you see a van like that, somebody's trying to kidnap you, right? This is just my experience, right? Coming from being a prostitute, this is my experience. And so before the men could get close enough to me to grab me, because this is what I'm assuming is about to happen,

because why else would three men be walking so closely behind me and this man sitting here? You know, anyway, so I immediately crossed the street. I didn't even look for cars. I almost got hit because I was just, I'm crossing the street immediately. And there was a hospital that was right across the street. So I went and sat in front of it and just tried to get my bearings, you know, what's going on. I never saw those three men come from behind the vehicle. I didn't see the Spanish man move either, nor did I stay long enough to see the van pull off, right?

So I don't know what happened. And I'm just sitting there and I'm just watching because now I'm like spooked and I'm trying to figure out, okay, because I can see my hotel. And I'm just trying to figure out how can I get there quick enough before something happens. And so anyways, eventually I make it there back to the hotel and I see John and I tell him what, happened and so he's like okay we gotta go we got we got any um you know francois like well you know what like how do you know like what's like this is even like somebody's even here for you and he was like because i trust janis you know i trust her instincts and so now i've got this pressure on me like did i just like did this really happen like or am i just being overly paranoid or

whatever and so on our way to the airport because john decides we're going to the airport um He, one of the ladies, a lady that's with us, she is on Twitter or something. I'm not sure how she sees this tweet, but there's a tweet that says John McAfee, then Maine, the name of the cell phone store, and I'm sorry, so it said John McAfee, the name of the cell phone store, and the city in which we were in Maine, right? And so it was the exact place where we were, right? Again, why I told you about that is because he used this card to pay for the phone instead of cash. And so for me, that confirmed to me that something that maybe I didn't just imagine what had happened, right?

Because there's always that concern. Did you see the tweet? I did see the tweet, yeah. Is it still up? I don't know if it's still up. I'm not sure. Who was the woman that you were with that saw? She was someone that was just working with us at the time.

I see. Just by happenstance, she saw it. Well, because we were just, I don't know what we were doing. Because I'm like super amped up because of the situation. I'm not sure how that portion of it came about, but I do remember that. Now, is Francois connected to this in any way at this point? I don't know. Do you suspect that he was?

Maybe to get me out of the way, yeah. I mean I mean I didn't suspect him at the time And I don't really now Like that he had necessarily had a hand in it But definitely that Whatever it was was meant to just get me out of the way Because I was in the way

I was preventing things from happening I was keeping you know Telling John don't park your car here Make sure you have security Which you don't be driving nowhere by yourself You know If we were going to different keynote speeches and things.

You know, I'm there, I'm with him, I'm watching his back, watch off of this person, watch off of that person. You know, so I'm intercepting so that he can do what it is that he does as John McAfee, right? He can be engaged and talking to people and feel confident that not just me watching his back, but John Poole would be with us as well. So even John Poole confident enough that I'm going to make sure nothing happens to him. And I don't think John Poole felt that way because he felt that I cared so much about John. I think he just knew that I was smart enough to know that John's survival, my survival, depended on John's survival.

There was a line, no. And so, duh, you know, that I could be trusted in that sense, you know. And this is all happening before you tell. Yeah, before I tell him, which is what prompted me to tell him. That experience. Yeah, because, yeah, because now they're after me. And it's like, whoa, whoa. Yeah, that was not part of the deal.

Right. Oh my goodness. I know it's not funny, but... No, you got a laugh. I got away from it so I can, you know, it's just in hindsight, the craziness of it all, you know. So how does this tweet get out about where he is? I don't know. Again, people were keeping tabs on us, and so this just showed... And why tweet it? In what way? I don't know. I think maybe to just make... people whoever whatever operatives in the area to make them aware again I don't know I can't say that I know that I understand and I can't say that maybe that was what I want to

say I don't know maybe that was just something that was shown to John to to make him more concerned I don't know like I don't know how real the tweet was but I do know I I saw it. I do know it was on Twitter because it was in the old Twitter format. Right. Right. The whatever that, you know, because it changed. It morphed into something else.

There was just, I think, I hope that you can understand what I'm saying. Yeah, like the old Twitter, like tweet style. Yeah. It was like that. Because this is again probably 2014-ish. Yeah. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because we got merch.

If you don't know, we got Camp Research and Development merchandise. You can see it right here. my buddy Andrew Schultz was actually just out, hanging with his fam, having a good old time. All of a sudden, a dude walks up and goes, yo, what's up, Schultzie? And guess what he was wearing? This shirt right here.

So shout out to that legend, whoever you are. You're the man. I appreciate that. And if you want to copy your very own camp threads, go to camp dash rd.com. We were dropping all sorts of new gear. You can see some of the images here of some of the products that we got.

And anytime you buy a t-shirt, you help this show directly operate. It is a huge, huge lift. And I'm very grateful for everyone. that reps the gear, especially at the live shows, seeing you guys wearing the t-shirts at the shows, truly makes my life. It's the coolest thing ever.

I cannot believe people are actually wearing clothes that me and my friends are designing eye message chats. Like, yo, you think this is cool? It's the craziest thing in the world, and I'm so grateful for everyone that does it. Check it out. We got the link in the description. Now let's get back to the show.

What's up, beautiful people of America? I am on the road. That's right. I'm doing my hour of stand-up comedy in many cities, some of which are near you. Going to Philadelphia, Fort Wayne, Indiana, and Chicago. you can get tickets at my website,

www. www.markagnonLive.com. We also got the link in the description. I would love for you guys to come on out. I say what's up to everybody after the show if you want to come hang, have some laughs, grab a pick with me, shake my hand, and tell me some crazy story.

I would love to see you guys there. Can't wait. Let's get back to the show. So when you ultimately tell him, he knows, is he pretending to be mad? No. Why is he? But if he actually knows,

and he knows that you also haven't flipped on him in two years, What like I wonder like my assumption would be you tell him and he goes I know we all know Everybody knows I mean he did that was kind of the gist of the conversation But there was genuine anger because There was a lot of relationships that went towered because of me

He had a lot of issues Like with other girlfriends? No with security I see people that had been with him for and a long time there was get rid of this girl she's a liability

yeah I was a big problem for him a big problem for him he lost a lot he had a lot of sleepless nights because of me and I think just the frustration of I should have just said something earlier like why didn't you just say something earlier

because I already knew and maybe a lot of the issues he was having could have been cleared up Are you two married at this point? Yeah. Yeah, we got married October. Well, we got married twice, so we were married first, October 2013, and then again, March of 2016.

Gotcha. So this is the first marriage. Yeah. And what was the nature of that marriage? Was it just? Well, we got married, but then there was an issue with our marriage license. So it was voided because we ended up leaving where we got married at, Colorado Springs and so we just never rectified the issue with the marriage license.

Is there a large ceremony? No, no. It was in the backyard of his friends, Pam Jones, whose sister is Grace Jones. And so it was her girlfriend and her family, her children and her ex-husband. It was really nice, actually. That's awesome. Yeah. So you guys were already technically married, but like the state didn't necessarily validate it.

Right. But between you two, you were married. Yes. And so once you bring this up to him, he's pissed. Yeah. Now, you had mentioned up until this point, there'd been like a couple arguments. Yeah. Were the arguments around the same type of thing, or were they all kind of like different things?

Like whenever there'd be like a... Um, the same type of thing. The same type of thing. And for me, it was just like, well, fine, I'm leaving. That was always my go-to. You know, because he had... Because of the time, the first argument that he kicked me out, right? And I had to do with one of his girlfriends.

She didn't want me at the house. Jealous, whatever, I don't know. But so he kicked me out for that. And so every argument after that was like, okay, I'm leaving. Like, you know, I'm not going to let you kick me out again. I'm out. I need to be here. Gotcha.

And the other arguments were they? The other arguments were, like, stupid, like him, like, accusing me of something or one argument in particular, I can remember, was so stupid because he had this number. It was a number he was concerned about that called him. And he was like, well, let me use your phone. I'm going to call him back. And I was like, no, I'm not going to let you use my phone

because you're going to call them back and then you're going to be going through my call log and you're going to say, hey, you call this number. Why did you call this number? And I'm going to say, no, this was you calling my, right? And so I was like, no, we're not going to do that. And so he's like, just give me the phone, whatever, whatever. And so I did eventually.

let him use the phone. And sure enough, he makes an argument with me about, hey, you called this number. It's in your call log. And I'm like, are you kidding me? You called the number. Like, we're not doing this. That was a huge argument. I ended up key in his car doing that.

I was so pissed. I was so pissed. I broke every glass in the house. And I remember he was standing or he was like sitting on the back of the couch. And there was like this perfect ring around his feet. of glass. I somehow broke the tequila bottle and you know how thick a tequila bottle is. You got to get it right. And he was suddenly like, he was like, okay, I'm done with this conversation show. He goes into the bedroom and I chucked the way that the top broke,

you know, so I'm holding the top, but there was like this jagged part in it and I chucked it and I chucked it at the door so hard that it embedded itself in the door and almost went through to the opposite side of the door. Yeah. I was so pissed. I keyed his car. I walked around the whole truck and with the key and then on the hood i was like trying to sign my signature or something i don't know i scribbles on it was it was it was it was a lot i did i was i've never ever behaved that way ever before because no one has ever gotten me that angry before i didn't care about the pimp right i didn't love him right it was just a stupid situation that i i stayed too long in you know but um there are real emotions there apparently with John.

Right. And at this point, love was not something that was on the table, right? So me saying that I loved him or admitting that I loved him was not an option, but apparently there were feelings there that were triggered by this betrayal of, I told you that this would happen, right? And now you're accusing me and it just really made me angry. Yeah, of course, especially getting accused for something that you didn't do. It was like the most...

Especially when there was things that I was actually doing that we could have spoken about. It was like the elephant in the room that we never spoke about. But what is that? Like, was he in a position where he would forget things? I don't think so. I think it was just a way to kind of... Maybe he thought maybe it would trigger me into confessing. I don't know.

Because it was just always something we just danced around. But we were clearly having that argument. Why aren't you coming clean about this, but we just weren't actually having that argument? Right. So maybe, so you're suggesting, because he didn't exhibit like memory issues in any other capacity. So you're suggesting that maybe he's like, hey, let me call the number on your phone. You call it. He goes back through your phone log and says, why is this in your phone log?

And then that gets you nervously to be like, yeah, I've been calling the other people. Like I've been working with someone da-da-da-da. And then he can get you. And then finally you two can have the conversation. Yeah. Maybe. Do you think by the time you tell him, had you said that you loved him? I don't think so.

Did you love him at that point? I liked him. I liked him so much. Like, I really, really, really liked him. And I think that was probably the closest I could get to love, right, coming from where I came from. But when I say I liked him, like, I was smitten. You know, like all the rom-com movies. Yeah, like, yeah, like really in that sweet sort of when a girl likes a guy kind of way,

like absolutely smitten. Did he love you? Ever or at that point? At that point. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe the woman that he thought I could be, you know, once we were able to. have a real conversation

maybe he saw glimpses of that woman and maybe that's why he was willing to take the risk that he did with me now a lot of people would assume that when you get married to someone love is a is a is a pretense

but not in your case no but I liked him how did the marriage come about without the two of you sort of being on the same page as far as love that is weird yeah I honestly, I have no idea why he asked me to marry him. I really, really don't know.

When he did, it was there a party that I was like, hmm. No, when he did, I was like, no. I turned him down. I said, no, I'm not going to marry you. And he showed me the ring. It's a beautiful ring. It was purple, my favorite color. But, yeah, no, I turned him down.

And this happened after the Pimp situation, after the Francois situation, after all of that, him asking me to marry him happened um and i was just like no i'm not going to marry you like i don't like we don't need to get married you know i'm happy with the way things are right now my assumption was because um remember i said that uh when i was in miami the pimp was talking about all these you know let's you know take pictures and sell it to the you know to have a thousand yeah i also was talking to the the other hoe there because she was still there at the time she eventually left but um and she was like well what's he like what do you like what do you think what do you think is going to happen?

And I just very jokingly said, I want to marry him and get in the will, right? I'm going to marry him and get in the will. So this is what, fast forward, why I'm assuming why he's asking me to marry him, right? That he's thinking that I somehow to be able to fulfill this obligation. I don't know, right? But this is where my mind went back to.

Yeah. So I just was like, no, I'm not going to marry you. Right. But he kept asking. and the reason I said yes was because I did like him very, very much and I wanted to be with him. And I felt that if I kept saying no,

if I kept turning him down, that would say something to him that I wasn't trying to say. Like I didn't care about him and I didn't want to have a future with him, you know? Or that it wasn't necessary for you. Yeah. Well, I don't know.

I just felt that he would, he would, I just felt that it would hurt him or offend him in some sort of way that I was not intending, you know? Because again, I did like him a lot. I cared about him and I did want to be with him. But I just didn't, marriage was just not something that I thought about. Not just to him, but not to anyone, you know, because you can't make a help. a housewife. It's so stupid. Do you believe that or is that

just an adage? I just believe that that wasn't in the cards for me. You know? Like that sort of normalcy was not in the cards for me, you know? So when it came around you were like, no. Right. But then you're like,

I don't want to be really... Right. Yeah, I've been offered worst things. So, you tell him he goes okay does your relationship change after that moment yeah it does

are there any more secrets after that yes there are okay take me forward from that point okay so so we're just living you know a normal life and this is in Tennessee now we're back with the head of security

we're at his home is day to day fairly normal are you guys going to restaurants are you yeah we have we have movie dates we go out and go to the movies and do a dinner date and... Still somewhat concerned about your safety? No, no.

I mean, this sounds great. The pimp is not in the picture, yeah? And you're not getting followed? Yeah, the pimp is not in the picture, and I'm not being followed when I go, you know, back to see the kids. But that's also because John is with me, right? Both Johns are coming with me, right? I'm not going by myself anymore.

This sounds pretty good. Yeah, life is good. This should be the end of the story. It should be. But so I'm not sure exactly because by this point I'm drinking heavily. And so I can not give you a blow by blow of how the pimp contacted me, but he contacts me. When you say at this point drinking heavily, do you mean in that phase of your life? Yes, at this point.

Well, I had been drinking heavily by the time we. were in Tennessee, initially in Tennessee. So this would have been, let's see, solidly living in Tennessee. So maybe after the whole situation where I've told him, right? So now I'm drinking quite heavily. And you're drinking for what reason? Just stress. It's just stressed out because I wasn't sure what the pimp was doing.

I wasn't sure what the cartel was doing. I wasn't sure that that threat was over, right? Because for me, this was still an active situation. You know, even though I had come clean, you know, I didn't know if John was what John was keeping tabs on. And then for me as well, I didn't think that he would have been aware necessarily of the danger of the pimp.

Not the pimp per se himself, but him just hiring someone, like I had mentioned earlier, hiring someone to shoot up my parents' house. That could have happened at any time for any reason. You know, and no one would have investigated it because it would just have been black-on-black crime, right? They would have just been an assumption

that they were involved in something, yeah. So this was the concern, great concern for me. So again, I'm not sure exactly how he got in contact with me, but he was able to do so. And he tells me that he is living, in Jackson, Tennessee, which is about 45 minutes away from where we are. And I decide to go and meet him at his house. And he's basically like, what's up?

Where you been? Whatever, whatever. And so I just am expressing to him, you know, the same thing that I had always expressed to him, you know, that I can't reach out because John is suspicious. You know, he's watching my phone. he's watching, you know, my communications, all of the things. And there were, there were some men there, a couple of men there. And I remember that I went to the bathroom while I was in there,

and I could hear my pimp over here, I'm talking to one of the guys there. And he was like, I don't care. You have to kill that bitch, too. So what they were planning on was a home invasion, right, so that they could collect John, that we were going to collect John. in that way. And what I was supposed to do was give them a call, you know, and then leave, like, leave the house and give them a call just to let them know, you know, it's on or whatever,

right, to give the signal, if you will. And they told you this whole plan. Yeah, this was the plan, yeah. And so, so John, again, he, I didn't tell him, I didn't tell him, what was going on. Because you were afraid of how he would react Yeah, very much so Because then

Then my coming clean Before was just like what was that for You know what I'm saying? Like why I don't know I just made a I just should have told him You know I should have told him

Why I even Thought it was a good idea to go Which again was for me For me And my limited wisdom I was just trying to do a temperature check, you know, and see where everyone's head was at, you know. Now, you met this pimp and we're working with him in South Florida. Yeah.

Is it common for pimps to get places in Tennessee after working in South Florida? No. So why is he in Tennessee? Because I was there. And he's now tracking you? Well, yeah, I should let me throw this little incident in there really quickly. So when John and I were married October 2013, but we had been living in Colorado, which is where we got married, Colorado Springs, we had been living there since maybe April of the same year. Or no, that's not right.

Anyways, we were living in Colorado Springs after we got married, I'm sorry. And then fast forward until about April of the following year. Okay. And so while we were there, John was doing interviews with different mainstream media, so CNN, Fox, whatever. And he was asking them to not give his location while he's online or on air. And so there was an interview with Fox News and this first thing the guy said was we have John McAfee here from Colorado Springs. Okay, so now people know where we are. All right.

And so maybe a month or so after that, I randomly just go to CVS just to pick up some things. And I went to another grocery store first, but I went there to pick up like my toiletries. That's where I got my toiletries from. And when I came out of the store, he was standing next to my car. Your pet. Yes.

Now, how does that happen? I have no idea that he would know exactly where I was. He didn't have my phone number. We had brand new phones. This was kind of fresh off the hills of the whole Portland situation. So I was not in contact with him. Did you guys talk? No.

At that point, we were not talking. So there was nothing to explain how he found out that I was in Colorado Springs, nor was there anything to explain how he found out I was at the store at that time. Did you talk once you got to the car? Yeah, of course, once we got to the car. But he obviously didn't tell me that. like why he was there or how he found out where I was you know and you know I was just immediately you can't be here

you have to leave and he's like well I don't have no money whatever whatever okay so I took a necklace that John bought me and I took it to the pawn shop because I couldn't take money out of his bank account because that was what we agreed on you know wasn't going to give any of his money to okay so I went in pawn the necklace just to give him some money and you have to leave you cannot be here you know, because you just can't be here. So that's what I did.

So anyways, this again, I don't know how he was able to contact me. But again, like I said, I was drinking heavily at the time. So there's a lot of things that are spotty with my memory. And so I didn't tell John, but now he's on super high alert. And when we've got, now we have a team of ex-military people that are living with us. John is convinced that people are hiding under our house in the crawl space, and he's now just randomly firing off the gun in the house, right? We have so many holes, so many holes.

And so I remember the one night we get into an argument and he asked me to leave or I decide to leave something. And I remember leaving and I was scared to go. out of town, there was just this irrational fear that I had, that if I left, like, to go further away from our home, there's something that's going to happen to me. So I got a hotel right at the end of town, our town, which was Lexington, Tennessee. And I didn't call the pimp. I didn't, I didn't even attempt to call him. I was just there with my dogs. By that time, we had four dogs, and the dogs I had with me were our German Shepherd puppies,

brother and sisters. I had them with me. And I stayed there, I think, overnight. And then John had one of the security come and get me the next night. And, you know, that was that. When I came home, that was that. And then we had a whole other discussion,

a whole other kind of coming to Jesus sort of moment, but he was really pissed then. Now he was pissed. Before he was upset the first time, the first conversation, but this time he was pissed. Because what was the explanation and I had no explanation? There was nothing good enough that I could have said to him, you know, to help him to understand why I was doing what I was doing. Even for me, I didn't understand it, right? you know, why couldn't I have just simply told him

since we had already did the big discussion, right? And that was hard enough as it was, but why not just be, you know, come clean about this situation and why not tell him in the moment, you know? Now, it must be abnormal for a pimp to follow around one of his former workers across the country. Yeah. Like, why is he doing this?

Is it because he knows that there's someone, much money in the line with collecting John? Maybe. I do know that he was paid. The Pimp was paid. I've heard $50,000. I'm not sure. It could have been more.

But he was beholden to them, right? They paid you. And you have to do whatever it is that you said that you would do for that money that they paid you. And he's thinking, I can get this girl to do whatever. Well, I think more so that now his life is the line because you've now accepted money and you have to come through with what you promised that you could and I can only imagine what he might have suffered through for not being

able to come through with whatever it was that he promised them you know but for me I wasn't paid right the you know I wasn't directly contacted by the cartel you know I wasn't directly in connection with them, you know. So also there's, there's rules, right? I'm a civilian, right? I'm not in a relationship with someone who's in the cartel and I know what's going on. So of course, that might be a casualty, right? Then of course you may be beholden to them because of the relationship that you were, you know, close proximity, if you will, right? But at least this is my assumption, you know, on how these things work. There's some sort of organization. or rules, right, to the criminal activity that they engage in.

So I think that's why I've stayed safe, even far beyond, you know, and why I feel comfortable with being able to talk about the things because I don't really know anything that I could point out someone, you know, where it would become a danger for me or even the people I'm sharing the information with. Yeah, so, so, yeah, he was very upset. said but we of i don't say that i won't say that we ever really got back we never really got back the rhythm that we had gained after the initial coming clean we never really got back there it was just um it was just different and it stayed that way you know it's it stayed that way till till the end

you know and he's getting more and more paranoid and sort of agitated it seems like um not paranoid Just things are becoming more dangerous, but then now I'm questionable again. Right. Right. And questionable in a way that I wasn't really before, even though I probably should have been, you know. But now with that incident, because it was like, you know, maybe for him, I thought we were past this. I thought we were at a point where you could have. to go back.

Felt like you could have come to me, yeah. Like if a guy cheats 10 times and then comes clean, it's the 11th cheat that is worse than all the other ones. Because it's like, yo, I thought we patched it up. And now how many times? Now patching it doesn't seem like an option. That makes a lot of sense. And remind me again, how did he find out that you had went to go see him?

Oh, he just, he knew. He had people tracking. I told you my car was bugged. So by the time you come back, he goes, what the fuck? Yeah. So then what happens with this plan that the, this pimp had laid out to you? It doesn't.

You never called it in. No. No, I never called it in, and I don't know what happened at the house, but it felt like something happened at the house. I don't know what, and I don't know if they decided to try to go in anyways. I don't know. It seemed, or it would seem,

the pimp was somewhat desperate now at this point. He seemed more frantic. The fact that he was not frantic, but determined. maybe to see it through or to make good on on whatever the promise was that he was, that he made. And so that's, I can only guess maybe that's why he came to Tennessee, right? And why he was set up there. Sort of kind of moving around following me, you know, that seems to attract.

It seems to make sense, maybe. as to why he would have been doing that. But as far as what happened again, I don't know. But then life just slowly began to move on. And he eventually ran for president 2016, which was really cool. We went on going on the campaign trail. And when he would talk about me, like, So the very first speech that he did, he made sure to address me and my situation, you know, and how, you know, yes, I was a prostitute when we met and how, you know, I had a pimp and how he, you know, basically not rescued me, but, but, you know, help me escape that situation.

And he's saying all of these glowing things about me and, you know, we've just been through all of this crap, you know. And I've broken his trust, you know, like you said, that 11th time cheating, you know. And but he never, he always spoke about me like the sun rose and set out of my butt. Like, seriously. And it was genuine, though. Like it wasn't like, it wasn't put on, you know what I'm saying? It wasn't him just saying something just for the sake of, you know, this would be a good thing to say. know, while I'm on the campaign trail, you know, to make myself look good.

Right. It was never, it never came across that way, never felt that way. It always read honest and true. So did John love me? I do believe so that he did, even to his own detriment. I do believe that he did, you know. And so, you know, the campaign trail was cool. It was crazy, crazy in the sense that the corruption, the level of corruption

that exists there and it's a small nothing party right that's never going to ever make any real difference in the grand scheme of things right but the the level of corruption is as something on par is what i would imagine it being in the democratic republican parties you know um but it was a really cool time i really enjoyed it because i began to see that okay maybe i can maybe there is more to me than just who I was in the past. That's when I really began to first see a glimpse of maybe I can no longer just be the former prostitute, right? But maybe I can just be Janice, you know?

And, you know, but I settled for Janice McAfee, right? And I'm figuring out who just Janice is, you know, right now. That's the journey I'm on now. Yeah, so life just continued to be crazy. Like, we continue to be crazy. At what point do you go to Spain? So that happened, um, 2019, summer, the end of summer, 2019. And what prompted the exit to Spain?

So we, John had gotten word of a grand jury indictment from one of his attorneys in Tennessee. So we were buying homes there in Tennessee. And so obviously we had attorneys. would finalize paperwork and things. And so one of his attorneys had reached out to him and said that he had been subpoenaed to give testimony to this grand jury. And so John, I'm not sure if John had already had knowledge of this

because he had purchased a boat and was beginning to restore it. The great mystery was actually the boat we ended up leaving AmeriCorps. And so he was restoring it that whole summer of 2018. is being restored. And so when we got noticed, I think it was around Thanksgiving

of this grand jury. What were the terms of the grand jury indictment? It didn't say exactly, but it just said, I think it was just unspecified tax-related things. But I was named in it, and then four other people that had once at some point worked for John.

And obviously John was named in it as well. And so then January rolls around and we leave January 19th. Why that specific day, I don't know, not important. And so we leave from North Carolina because that's where we were living on Hatteras Island. And we drive down to Miami and we get on our boat and we leave and we go to the Bahamas and we stop there because there's no income tax there. So we could not have been extradited back to America because, whatever you're, the crime that you're being accused of has to be a crime in the country that you're in,

for them to be able to extradite you. And so since there was no income tax, then they couldn't extradite us. So instead, what they were going to do was collect him on any sort of charge, drunken disorderly or drunken in public, something, just taking him in custody and shipping back to the state. So instead, we left and went to Cuba. And Cuba was really nice. It was really fun. And so then after a little while of us being there, maybe a month or so,

someone comes through our boat while John and I were gone in a military uniform and says that John's presence is requested at this location. So I go with John and it looks like an old army barracks of some sort. And we go inside, there's a general in there and he tells us that, you know, the U.S. government, someone has contacted them and they are pressuring them

to send John back to the states and they didn't want to do that. And so they were given us 72 hours to leave Cuba. And so we were able to leave just in time because we had to wait for our captain, our boat captain to come back because he had just went on vacation because he had been with us that whole time.

So he came back just in the nick of time, and we left there to go to the Dominican Republic, and we were immediately detained once we got there. We didn't even know why we were being detained. We were just detained. They removed us from our boat. They took us to a jail, and they let us stay in the cafeteria. So we weren't arrested. So we were in the cafeteria.

We slept there. They fed us. but our dogs were with us until our dogs were on the boat for what, three days without food or water. You know, we had, when we got there to the Dominican Republic, we had ran out of food and water. You know, we were, you know, four days at sea.

So it was a rough trip. It was a rough trip, but our dogs are, you know, and they just wouldn't let us go and take care of them anyway. So someone was finally able to do that and feed them and let them use the bathroom. and eventually we figure out that they what they were trying to do on our boat because someone came and searched our boat while we were not on it. And so they finally, after four days of being in their custody, they let us go back to the boat

for us to collect some belongings, right? And when we got on the boat, the boat was completely ransacked. I mean, everything was everywhere. Completely ransacked. And so John found, John take, he took out his money, right? He had a stash of almost $100,000, right? And so we had declared the money in Cuba. Yeah, we had declared it in the Bahamas as well.

Obviously, you have to declare what you have with you. And so somehow, I don't know how they found it in the Dominican Republic, because that's what they were searching for. They were searching for the money because they asked John to go and show them where he had the money hit. And apparently it was somewhere they hadn't looked, you know, because John was clever that way. So that's what they were doing on our boat that whole time,

trying to find where the money was stashed. Maybe they thought drugs as well they could find. I don't know if something else they were looking for. So John showed them eventually where it was? Yeah, where he hit the money. Did they try to take it? They did. They were trying to because they took us instead of after that,

they were supposed to take us to the airport, but instead they took us to another holding facility where, you know, and they made John give up his money. They made him give up his money, even though they let us keep the rest of our belongings because we were supposed to be going to the airport. So all of the things that we took off the boat was with us in suitcases. And so they let us keep all of that with us in the cell.

Well, John kept my stuff because they sent me over with the ladies. And so they had all of our stuff, and that's where you see some of those pictures of John in jail. He was able to take those pictures because there was a phone in my luggage that I didn't turn over to them because it wasn't a phone that I was using. It was an active phone. It was just an old phone. And so he found it and was able to take some pictures. But what John did was he asked them for a receipt.

And I don't know why this mattered, but he asked him for a receipt for his money. So they counted it out and gave him a receipt. So anyways, he was able to get his money back. And then there was a big debacle about them trying to make. John go back to America, but because he had dual citizenship, he said, I can go to, you know, the UK. I don't have to go back to the States, but they said, no, you have to go back to the U.S. And so he hires attorneys. Again, same situation like in Guatemala where they needed time to have the stay of extradition. And so this time John fakes a stroke. And so he comes over. So the rooms were in two separate rooms where they're going to count out the money. And then we're we're being held. And so there's a glass window so I can see him. So he comes over to my room and he says, listen, don't be alarmed. I'm just doing my thing. And then he goes back over. And then like maybe

a couple minutes later, he like passes out. And he's when he hits the floor, bam. And so everybody's like standing back like, you know, this is BS. He's not like he's fine. Right. And so when he comes to, he's like, oh my God, where am I? Who are you people? Where am I at? Where's my wife? And, you know, just like he's out of it and he doesn't know where he is. And so the security, our security that was with us, he goes over, he said, sir, it's me, it's Steve. He's like, I don't know who you are, get away from me. He was a really good actor.

And so eventually they let me go and see him. And he was like, oh my goodness, my wife, where were you? Where are we? What's going on, right? And so then I eventually am able, I just give him a hug. and I told them, you know, they're making me leave. They're sending me to the airport. So I got to go.

I love you. Because they were sending each of us back to our country of origin, right, because we're being deported. So I leave, go to the airport. As soon as we get to the airport, someone gets a phone call and says to bring me back because he's in the hospital. So I go back. I get into the hospital and I come into his room and he's got his feet up. He's on his phone. He's like chilling.

And I'm like, okay, so the doctors and nurses keep coming in and asking. They're trying to do tests on him, run tests on him to make sure he's okay. And he's like, no, I don't need that. And eventually the attorneys come, and they're coming in, smiles and like, yeah. And he's like, okay, well, calm down because no one's supposed to know what we're doing, right? And anyway, so they were able to get the stay of extradition. And that ended the whole debacle there. And then they ended up buying us our tickets to the UK.

and we got to the UK safely on a Friday evening. So this allowed us time to kind of catch our breath and still get out of town before anybody opened up in the government, right? And so we left on Sunday because obviously the UK and the U.S. have very close relations and we needed to get out of there before any government offices were open. So that's what we did. And we eventually made our way into Spain. And so you changed.

Chose Spain specifically. I'm not sure why John chose Spain. I don't know. He had friends there. I don't know if he chose Spain because of his friends there. I'm not sure. Now, once you arrive in Spain, at what point is John intercepted? It's almost a year later.

It's over a year later. So you live in Spain for a year. Basically. Yeah, free and clear. No interruption. No interruption. We're traveling. We're crossing borders.

We're giving pass. sports, right? We flew. Where did we fly to? Oh, we were flying, we were going to fly to, what was it, Germany? We were going to fly to Germany, but we got turned back because while we were in mid-flight or in the air, they reinstated, sorry, they reinstated the COVID restrictions. So we got turned, we got turned right back around. Now, I mentioned that because we had to go through security, they flagged or they ran his passport and there was no problem with his passport. So there was no issue.

There was no warrant for him at all. For me either. How was that year for the two of you? It was amazing. Were you on good terms? Yeah, we were. We were on the best terms. No stress of this pimp.

No stress from anyone else. By that time the pimp was no more a factor. You're not being followed? No. Not in Spain. No, we were perfectly safe there perfectly. Until when? It was a good time.

Well, until he was leaving to go to Turkey. So this is October 3rd, October 3rd of 2020. And why is he going to Turkey? John is leaving to go to Turkey. I don't know. Business maybe, I'm not sure. I never fully understood it, but I know that I didn't like it And because we were having to separate, you know, and I was just concerned, you know, I was just concerned that, I don't know.

So anyways, I just was, you know, I told him, just please call me when you get where you're going, just so I'm, you know, I'm not worried about you. And there was just, there was just something about his demeanor. He seemed, do I want to say on edge? maybe on edge when he was leaving, you know. And so, yeah, because I stood outside, you know, waiting, you know, I just watched, you know, watched him leave. I don't know. It just didn't feel good. It didn't feel good him leaving.

And he was not his normal, you know, jovial sort of, you know, kind of John McAfee's himself, you know, there was just a pensiveness about him. And so anyways, I message him and I tell him, you know, I'm going for my jog. And I'll let you know when I get back to the, you know, to where we were saying. And just, you know, let me know when you've made it safely to your destination. And then a couple hours later, I was told that he was arrested at the airport. And so what happened was his passport was flagged as. stolen and that's why they took him into custody initially and then after that i think it was the next day this uh red notice from interpol materialized and now he was being held um for extradition

or being held for these uh charges related to the the tax and and um the u.s wanting him to be extradited from his grand jury in the u.s. Yeah. So then he goes to a Spanish prison. Yeah, he goes to the Spanish prison. It takes about a week or so for me to be able to be in contact with him. And in the meantime, I get his clothes together because I'm able to send him a care package, things that he needs.

So I send him clothes, shoes, things that he needs to be comfortable. And finally, he gives me a call. And it's felt really, really good to hear his voice. I was, yeah. And so we spoke every day, three times a day. The conversations were eight minutes apiece. We, oh, he asked me too to start collecting, like, news headlines for him. So I would collect, like, the day's headlines,

just to kind of keep him abreast of what was going on in the world. And he would dictate to me his tweet. because while he was in prison there was tweets coming out from his account and that was me. So he was dictating or telling me what he wanted me to tweet, what time he wanted me to tweet. And so that's what I was doing. And I believe the very famous tweet of him saying that he was content and that if he hung himself a la Epstein, it wasn't his fault. I think that was just kind of a warning shot across the bow. I think maybe he just didn't feel safe, obviously, because,

if he didn't know, prison and hospitals are the easiest way to whack someone. So I think he was just trying to preempt that I do think that he felt maybe he was in danger as well. Maybe it was real, maybe not so much. I don't know, you know, because he never really told me that he was having any issues in the prison with any of the prisoners or any of the guards or anything like that. But that's not to say that he had an easy time. You know, I don't, I just don't know. But he never expressed suicidal ideation.

Never. Never. Ever, ever, ever. When he told you to tweet that and dictated that tweet to you, did it seem strange to you? Or did you understand what he was doing? Yeah, no, I understood what he was doing very much so. Like I said, I think it was just to preempt.

I don't know if he felt that he was in imminent danger or if it was just preemptively because obviously he was very vulnerable, right, to someone, Wacking him and obviously the very famous situation with Jeffrey Epstein had not long occurred, right? Did you think this was a possibility at this point? No, no. I was fully persuaded that John was going to Houdini his way out of the situation. Like he always does. Right.

Fully, fully persuaded. Never even considered that his death. would be the end of that. Never even considered that his death would be the reason why we would be no longer together. That time was coming. It had to come because I had to go back and be mom to my children. I had to go back to them. So we couldn't stay together forever.

That just wasn't in the cards for us, right? So eventually we were going to separate, but I never considered once that it would be because he is dead. Never once. So when did you find out? that he was dead. I found out a few. So, okay, so that day we had spoken, we spoke twice earlier than normal.

So the normal phone calls would be like between 8 or 9 a.m. and then between 12 and 2 p.m. and then between 4 and 6 p.m. right? and so the day of was I spoke to him earlier than that so I spoke to him before he went to court which is sometime about 7 in the morning and we were just discussing what I had discussed with the attorneys about at this time John had five attorneys

two in the states because there was a the tax charges and then the SEC had filed something in New York so we had an attorney for each case and then we had two in two Spanish attorneys the initial attorney was someone that his friends hired. The second attorney was someone who specialized in extradition and who had gone up against the U.S. and fighting against the extradition of one of his clients.

And then we had a British attorney because of John's dual citizenship. So we had all of these people working together to figure this out for John. And so none of us were surprised. that they were granting the extradition. We all understood that, John included, but we also understood that it was going to take time for them to be able to extradite him, right? Months, at minimum months, you know, because there's going to be appeals and all of these things.

So there was no imminent threat of him being extradited right away, right? There's not, it just wasn't a possibility. But so again, we spoke before court, and we spoke after he came back from court, and he was disappointed and we just talked I asked him if he wanted me to read some headlines and he said no let's just let's just talk

so again he was disappointed very much so but there was nothing in his conversation nothing in his voice that even just looking back on I could say he did sound no there was nothing

so at that point he knew that extradition was going to have That they had granted the extradition. And it was just a matter of time. Well, I mean, there was a pills that were going to happen. So we're not talking 24 hours. We're not talking a week even. But he knows that.

Well, yeah. But not in the, but not, but that didn't bring him into this great despair. Right. And he didn't communicate anything to him. No. And I don't think that he would have rage quit, as I've heard people say, because of that. John wasn't a quitter. He was a fighter to the end for sure.

And so like I said, my thought was that he was going to Houdini his way out of the situation. So when I found out, which I found out through a DM on, well, a DM on Twitter, someone I was on Twitter just scrolling. And somebody, I got a notification of a DM and it said, OMG, tell me this isn't true. And I immediately just thought of John and I went to Google his name. And sure enough, there was the report there that he was found dead in his cell by suicide. And I remember just breaking down like, you know, I don't know. It's just like, no, there's no way that's not possible. But then a part of me was like, okay, well, what if he, what if this is just what it's supposed to say?

Because actually he's not, he got out. But I'm having all of these emotions. Like, oh my God, he's dead. But then it's like, okay, maybe he's not. Maybe he's actually alive. Maybe he did actually get out. You know, but I can't say that out loud, right? And I call my mom and I'll tell you to my mom.

And I'm just, I'm losing it. So these are real emotions, right? Because I don't know. Like, I don't know what's happening, you know. And so then I had to go a few days later to identify his remains. And when I saw him, then I knew that that was him. So when I They brought his

They brought his body into a room So it was like um And there was like a glass Partition Separating me So there's a separate room But it was like a glass Sorry glass window

And um They had him Covered all the way Like from the neck down So I wasn't able to see His full body Just his face And his head obviously

Um Because they said that they were in the middle of doing the autopsy. So this is why I wasn't allowed to fully see his body. And I just remember staring at his face because I was just trying to look for the markers, the markers that I know. You know what I'm saying?

And my heart just sank. My heart just sank because now there's no possibility that that wasn't him, you know? but I still needed to see his body and this is what will always haunt me and frustrate me is because they never let me see all of him you know even though I'm sure I know who I saw

I knew it was him I know that you know but to have that question that lingering question you know it's like torture so yeah I went to the prison and they gave me his belongings, which is why I have his ring. And when we were talking to the, so it was the head of the guards, I guess he had the supervisor of the guards. And there was a woman there.

I don't know who she was, but I remember him just saying that, now this is being translated to me, but he was saying that he was surprised by what happened to John, that nobody saw that coming, that he had spoken to John, and John was his same upbeat, sort of joking self, right? He was the same John McAfee that everyone knew him to be there. There was no concern of maybe we should keep an eye on him after he came back from the court, you know.

And so, and I think this, I think this tracks as well because it was the prison that opened the investigation into his death. I didn't request this. The prison itself opened. And that, from what I have been made to understand, is not the normal procedure.

Like, you just, if you're dead, you're dead. That's it, right? And the verdict was already out in the press, right? That he was found dead. And that wasn't the case at all, actually. And the official story is that upon hearing the news of his extradition and the potential, you know, you know, jury that he'd be facing in the United States,

he was overcome with grief and then killed himself in a cell. Yeah, basically. And everyone kind of accepted it and moved on. And moved on, yeah. But that's not the situation. So from the prison investigative report, he was not dead when they found him. He was alive. He had a pulse and he was breathing.

His breathing was shallow, his pulse was faint, but he was breathing and had a heartbeat nonetheless. Okay. He was found attached to the window. I'll say attached to the window. So there was something attached to the, it was shoestrings. A lot of shoestrings. It was this thick.

Now you know how skinny shoestrings are. So it was pretty thick. It had to be a lot of shoestrings anyways. And this was connected to whatever was connected to the window. and they burned this to get him to release him from the window and the manager of the guards made it a point to tell me or made it a point for me to be told that John's feet were on the floor when they found him. Okay, so in the grand scheme of things, I'll let you guys sort of speculate on what you think that means.

So in the surveillance footage, they bring John out of the room, they lay him down on the floor in front of the door while they're waiting for the medical response team. And then they come. Eventually they come. Now the camera is facing John's sale. And when they find him, let me go back to this point. So the guard is walking down the hallway

and he's checking each cell, just looking in the window. And when he gets to John's cell, his door is cracked open like this. John's door is. And so the guard looks in and sees him and he, you know, immediately he's trying to get someone's attention to get the door open. And they open the door. And that's when, you know, eventually John gets brought out and he's laid on the floor. And so the medical response team comes. They put the bag over his mouth.

They're pumping air. They're doing chest compressions, yes. And after over 10 minutes, they eventually call it and they place his body back in the cell, close the door. Now, from the police, from the investigative report, in the pictures that they took of John and of the sale, the pictures of John, he still has the noose around his neck, which means while they were pumping air and while they were doing chest compressions, he still had the noose around his neck. There's no way they could have loosened it to, because if you loosened it, why wouldn't you just remove it? why wouldn't you just remove it in the first place? Like that's the first step in CPR. It's to make sure the airway is clear, right?

And I would assume that medical training in Spain is similar, right? Bodies work the same over there that they do here. You still have to clear the airway. Is it possible that it wasn't like firm around his neck, that his body weight was leaning on it or something to that effect? association then yeah i guess if he's leaning his body weight into it maybe that's some real determination there right yeah wouldn't it just be easier to slitch or risk right and so they didn't were they able were they not able to remove it i'm trying to think like what justification did they give any reason for

why this wasn't why it was never removed no was it ever brought up in the investigation was it ever a point of contention i don't i don't know because you know i had the attorney you know, representing me, right? And I wasn't privy to, I don't know that I was privy to all the communications with the court or what arguments he was making. You know, I know that I was insistent on being able to see John, right, and for his body to be released to me, because there was no need for them to continue to be holding his body.

And so the prisons investigate, lasted for eight months. And so during that entire time, they weren't releasing his body. Okay, and so after they had closed their investigation, my attorney informed me that if I don't request from them the full autopsy report now, or at that time, that I couldn't come back

and do it later once the investigation was closed. So that's what I did, because what they gave was for an autopsy report, autopsy report was a four-page basically summary. There was no pictures. There was no, like, autopsy reports are very extensive. They're usually pretty thick, yeah. And there was none of that.

And so, of course, you know, for me, well, of course, I'm not going to let you close the investigation. I'm going to demand this, you know. And I didn't know that that was then going to prompt them to say that I still couldn't have his body back. So they kept his body until they decided that, again, they were, I guess, reviewing my appeal, which they never addressed what I was initially wanting to know, which was, can I have the autopsy report? Their findings were that they felt like John, you know, there was nothing untoward about his death, right? They felt like the findings of him dying by suicide is what it was, and there was nothing that they found in the course of their investigation

to deter them from that conclusion. Okay, but that's not what I asked them. I just asked him for the autopsy report. That's all that I wanted was give me the autopsy report. I don't need you to tell me what you think happened to him. And that was the end of that. And I was eventually able to get his body in December, of 2020, 2023.

2020? Yes. Oh, my gosh. Yes. I'm sorry. Oh, you're good. Yes, 2020, December. Because I then left Spain, 24, March, 2024.

So, yeah, it was a long time that I had to wait. Just battling. To get his body. Yeah. And did you ever get the autopsy report? No. I never got the office report. Did you ever see security camera footage?

I did see the security camera footage. security camera footage. I wasn't able to see footage leading up to the incident. I just saw footage right before he was found and then all of what they did

during, after they found him and then shortly after they found him and they have closed, you know, put his body back in the cell and closed it. They put it back in the cell. Yeah. And then took pictures. That's protocol for them? I don't know.

Strange. Very strange. because now it's staged. Now you're staging the room now. Right. And it's where he was, sure, I guess, but you're putting him back there. It's just very odd.

And did you request to see footage leading up to it? I did. Was that granted to you? No. Well, my attorney was, I don't know, honestly, actually. I had some more footage, but I hadn't gone through it yet. I probably should have done that. But I don't think it was a full footage.

I think it was just kind of clippings. And there was also like still shots from the footage in the police report or in the investigative report from the prison. So if you had to put together as best as you could, what do you believe happened? I think he would have been drugged for sure. And I think there would have been there would have been evidence in his body to show that he would have put up a fight that there was a struggle of something. some sort. I definitely believe that. I definitely believe that is possible that the footage was spliced in some way, possibly, in a way that I wouldn't, to an untrained eye, you wouldn't see, you know. And I just, I don't know, honestly, but I just think it's strange

that all of the other cell doors were completely closed and Johns was cracked open. You know, that's strange. The fact that they didn't come prepared to remove, like they would, in their calling for someone to come, they would have said something he's hanging, he's hanging, right?

Right. So you need to bring... It's not the first inmate to have this happen. I'm assuming it would not have been, you know. Also, I've heard people comment about, well, how did you have shoestrings because they take your shoe strings? I don't know if that's the same

Spain. You know, I do know, I've been to jail here in America and yes, they take your shoe strings, they take your belt, they take anything away from you that you can use to harm yourself or someone else, yes. I don't know that that's the case for Spain, you know, because I sent him shoes with shoe strings in them, you know, and how else would he have been to, been able to wear them, you know, if they didn't have them. Did you ever see the shoe strings? Um, what I mean? Like, did you ever see what shoe strings he used? Like, were they discernible in any significant way? Could you be like, oh, that was from the, shoes. I saw

they were black shoe strings and then they took pictures of his shoes as well but it didn't explain all of the shoe strings that were around his neck. It seemed like more shoe strings than what you had given him. Way more. So then

I mean to go with the official story would have had to have been, he would have had to have gotten shoe strings from someone. Other inmates or someone else. And so whenever you had received a body whenever it was discharged what is that process like are you able to do an independent autopsy i would have been had i had the money i just didn't have the money um 20 000

it would have cost me to have um uh what do they call them i don't know a pathologist or whatever i don't know a person to fly in from madrid mortician or something yes to fly in from madrid to Barcelona to do an autopsy because they had to throw out his body anyways to cremate him because that's what

John's wishes wanted to be cremated and so I would have had time in that interim to have someone come in or at least that was what we were going to attempt

to do but I just didn't have I didn't have $20,000 I had run out of all my money I've been there for you know such a long time

And so I just didn't have it Or I would have absolutely done it Now did you get in contact with anyone else from his team Like his security or anyone else to discuss what had happened Or did any of them check on you? No No one reached out Did you find that strange?

Yeah there's always been sort of radio silence And I'm not sure why And again I kind of just go back to Because of the nature of our relationship early on until maybe, I don't know. I don't know, but I have felt it strange, extremely so, especially people that have called John a friend or have called themselves a friend of John

and to not hear anything. I can only assume that maybe it's because people assume, like many people assume, that he's alive somewhere. I've got to see that a lot. line. Which you don't think has validity? No. I would have heard something. We would have heard something, like the world in general would have heard something because John's hubris would not have allowed him to stay silent for this long. You'd want to prove it. Yeah, he'd say something. So whenever the body gets released to you, are you able to see it at that point? They wouldn't let me see him.

Because it goes from one facility to another. It's not going to get released to and then you can't go into the crematorium. I was in the crematorium, but they wouldn't open it. I asked, I did ask him, and initially the woman that was there, she said, yeah, I think we can, I think we can do that for you. And then some man came in and he stayed on his phone the whole time he was there and he blocked it. You blocked the situation so he wouldn't.

And so I had people with me because we were. So I had decided that I wanted to tell this story because a friend of mine had reached out to me and said, you know, these people are interested in telling the story and, you know, would you be okay with, you know, kind of talking to them? And so anyways, eventually I agreed to that and they came to Spain. They sent a team to where I was in Barcelona and they filmed me receiving the boss. I guess, receiving John's body in the casket, no, in the casket and they filmed that.

But also they assisted me with translation and trying to be able to see him before they cremated him. And so they were the ones that kind of were facilitating that for me and were getting nowhere with this man, you know. And so I don't know who he was on the phone with or why he even came in. You know, I can only, you know, obviously I can speculate about what I think was happening there. But yeah, it was, you know, it didn't get recorded, you know, his body going into the incinerator and thing like that. There's no cameras allowed down there, but they allowed me as much time as I needed to see. and just, you know, it just sucks just to not have that answer, you know? Just not have that answer settled in your mind, you know?

Which answer specifically? Just that, yes, that was him, you know, for sure. Yeah. Like, because you would say you're, without question. What percentage sure out of 100? 99%. But that one percent is torturing me. And you think about it.

All the time. all the time yeah now he had this tattoo yeah the wax tattoo it's a bit ominous

yeah what is the what was the background of that um well just what he said it was you know that he was getting um he was getting word that he you know

was in danger potentially and so he just wanted to to get that tattoo I don't I don't know honestly what he would have been thinking, you know, other than, again, just a shot across the bow or, again, for me, and just in hindsight, if, like, I was fully persuaded that he was going to Houdini himself out of the situation,

then, of course, he would have to do things to make it believable that he felt like there was danger afoot. You understand? If he was going to then, you know, magically get removed from the situation, how that was going to happen, I don't know. But you could look at it in that sense. But other than that, I don't know exactly why, you know, why he felt a need. Other than maybe he did, maybe he was getting word that an attempt was coming of some sort. because it wasn't fully unknown where we were.

There were pictures that are still online that if you look at them, you could suss out where we were. You could figure it out if you were so inclined. Now, you mentioned before that it would have been easy to take him out when he gets back from Guatemala, but you can't because he has information on important people. So why was it the case that he was able to be taken out in this moment? What happened to that dead man switch?

That I don't know I don't know There was a failure somewhere For sure Whether it was with a person or with A thing that was meant to release it I don't know Do you believe it existed?

I do believe it existed Why? Well Because I believed I believed what happened to him in beliefs I believe that to be fully The truth of what happened and what else could he have been collecting, right?

That's just what he told us he was collecting. Right. Well, not to say that he doesn't have the information, but how certain are you that he actually had some type of apparatus to release it? Like, did he ever mention it to explicitly? No, we never spoke explicitly about anything like that. I was just, I just would reasonably deduce just from the things that I would see and hear. going on around.

And again, that's just what he told us he had. So I can only imagine what he might have actually had that he wasn't talking about or what he might have actually had access to that he wasn't talking about. I also would imagine that that was, what he did talk about was maybe also just a shot across the bow to just say, hey, I have this, right?

And so if you know that I have this, then you can imagine what else I have. I don't know. You know, I don't know that there would have been one person that would have been in control of it or how it should have been released. But I don't think it hasn't been released because he's still alive. I don't think that's true. Because either way, he wouldn't be coming back. And so I think he would have just released it anyways, even if he was alive somewhere,

he would have still released it. Right. because what does he need to keep it secret for, you know, at that point, right? So when you return back from Spain, you go back to your family in Bay Area? Yeah, yeah. And has your life been quiet since then? Yeah, it's been quiet. It's been quiet.

You know, it wasn't quiet in Spain. I actually had a situation in Spain. And so there was deep concern. you know me coming back Was it a situation related to this Or was it sort of a... Yeah, no related to this I think someone's just trying to tie up loose ends

And I was apparently a loose enough end That they wanted to tie up Um And so, you know Yeah so I was So what happened was I had people following me In Spain And this is not imagined people

You know, I have the picture still of the people. But also I was injected with something when I was in Spain. So what happened was, we were, John and I were staying near the Barcelona area. And when John died, I was moved nine hours south to the Costa del Sol. And I was moved with a young lady that was working with John, you know, helping him with his social media, his Instagram. He was trying to build this Instagram followers. I think it was Instagram or TikTok. Maybe it was TikTok. Either way, whatever. And so I wasn't alone, you know, and we were, we moved to this place that was near the beach and her parents came into town. So she was not in the apartment with me. I was in the

apartment by myself, but I remember the next day, the next day it was or the next late afternoon. I noticed that there was a big knot on the side of my butt that was like the size of a golf ball. So that was the injection site. And maybe an hour after I noticed that it was like a light switch was switched on. And immediately from the tip of my finger to my shoulder, the blood stopped. Everything stopped. And there was excruciating pain in my arm, excruciating pain in my chest. I was short of breath.

and I just doubled over in pain. I was in so much pain. It felt like I was having a heart attack and I probably should have had a massive heart attack which probably would have killed me. And I just remember saying Yeshua Aoudemay. And like right after I said that, very slowly the symptoms started to subside.

It's just crazy because I still have like phantom pains in my arm and in my chest. And so... What does that mean? Yeshua, Edomé? Oh, Jesus help me. Is it Hebrew? Yeah, Yeshua is Hebrew.

Ayurda me is Spanish for help me. And so I didn't even know Spanish at the time to know Ayudema, but anyways. But yeah, so that happened. And the gentleman, I believe that was responsible for that. It was a very big Russian guy. that was living in our building. I've actually never told that part of the story. But, yeah, after that happened, I had people following me.

There was a gentleman that was out, like, right out in front of the apartment. I was in, oh, now I'm magically by myself as well. You know, now I'm just kind of left alone, you know, because she's got to go to work. You know, she's looking for work or whatever, and that was fine. And so this gentleman was standing, like, right out in front of, my building and the building was like embedded into the mountain so there's nothing like there's cliffside behind it and so i remember he turned around and he's got his phone he's like facing like

towards me and i flipped him off right so um he turned around and i could see him look at this camera and he's like and then he you know he kind of walks off like you know um so anyways again that sounds like nothing to you right but having lived it i know No, it's just a knowing. I know when I'm in danger. Did you ever correspond with this guy? No, the other man that took the picture? No, I never corresponded with anyone.

What about the guy that was living in your building? No, no, but I saw him. You ever spoke to him? He was pointed out to me. But anyways, no, I never spoke to him. And do you know when you were injected? It would have been like the night that we got into that place, that same night. because again, like I said, I was by myself.

She was with her parents, staying somewhere else. And it was an Airbnb, so, you know, anyone could have had the key to it, you know. So, so, yeah, things happened, right? But I'm still here. There was probably an attempt to collect me again after that, because people were following me after that. But I think simply because people have realized that I don't have information that they're looking for or I'm not as lucid end as they think, you know, that I need to be tied up, you know, which is why I feel comfortable with sharing, sharing the information I'm sharing. Because I'm sharing enough for if someone wanted to dig deeper, they can dig deeper. you know, if anyone were so inclined, you know, you follow the money trail, you follow, you know,

just the trail, the breadcrum trails of things, you know, that John left on his Twitter account, you know, and I'm just trying to fill in the gaps, you know. And at the very least, really what I'm trying to do is to dispel the idea that John was just a crazy paranoid man. You know, just the truth of it is that he was actually. in danger. People were actually after him, you know, and now he's dead. And he's not dead because he committed suicide. He's dead because CPR was performed on him with a noose around his neck, you know. I'm curious, as far as John's legacy is concerned, is there anything that you wish people would know about him as a man that sometimes his perception in the media doesn't

always showcase? Yeah, and that was his own fault. as well. He really played hard into that public persona that he carefully crafted. I guess I just would want people to know that he was a man, you know? He was a man that loved and

he loved people and he just wanted to be left alone. He just wanted to be able to live his life on his terms, you know? And he just wanted to be left alone, you know? And I guess what also I would want people to know about John, well, like I said, he wasn't just paranoid. People were literally after him.

And he was really in danger. And now he's dead. And I just, he just didn't deserve to die that way, you know. He deserved to have a better ending to his life than what he was given, you know. What would closure to John's story look like? I don't know. I don't know because I can't get it now because the body is cremated.

That would have been closure for me anyways. And the autopsy report? The autopsy report, obviously. Okay, yes. If it exists. Right. If the autopsy report existed, then that would be a huge step

and the way towards closure, you know. Yeah, I guess, yeah, in lieu of not being able to see his body, that would be the next best thing to have the autopsy report, to know what they know. Mm-hmm. Right? To absolutely know what they know and understand what happened to him exactly. Because I would imagine that an autopsy report was done. I would imagine that they still would have adhered to their procedural norms. Right.

Right. And maybe they just were refusing to release it. So this notion that he's a paranoid drug addict, in the time that you knew him, he was not a drug user. No. And he was not unjustifiably paranoid. No. That his paranoia was legitimate and rooted in actual lucid experience. Absolutely.

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. What was your most fun memory with John? There was so many. So many. So many. times with John was when he would, um, when he would put his phone down and you'd say, okay, let's do something. Like, let's go, like, you want to watch a movie? Oh, no, okay. Oh,

let's go ride our scooters or, um, yeah, because we were riding scooters, our razor scooters in, um, in Spain. We would go and ride him on the beach. It was so much fun. Um, but those, those were the best times where he'd just get into action of trying to entertain me. Um, because he would be fully engaged. I would have his full. full attention, you know, and that, I guess that's what I'm, what was the best times, just having his full attention and being fully engaged and present in the moment of us being together, whatever we were doing, you know, it was the best. Now, people have wondered about his assets. Yeah. Do you have anything when he, when he died? Not to my knowledge. He sold, like,

before he went to Belize I told you he had a fire sale of his things you know Belize he lost all of the things there before we left America we sold our homes that we had so whatever assets he had I'm sure they would have been seized for this you know his taxes you know tax debt I guess so I don't know I do know that he always spoke about never having a will because then that would give someone motive to kill him whoever was named in the will.

But again, you have to remember that he was once worth $100 million, right? And so obviously having a will would definitely give someone whoever was named in it motive to remove him sooner than would naturally have happened, yeah. So you didn't get any cash? No. And he never told you, like, hey, look under this rock somewhere. And there might be something.

No, no, he never told me that. I will say that we did get divorced before we left the States until he left me things in our divorce, but I haven't gone about collecting them, so I don't know. Like what? Homes, homes or the money from the sales of the homes, vehicle. You haven't gone about collecting. No. Well, I just came back, well, not been back very long.

And also, I didn't have the means to go about hiring whoever I needed to hire to go about collecting it. And so I think I will get to that eventually. I do have to go and talk to our divorce attorney in North Carolina and see. And so I think that will happen here shortly, but I'm not in a hurry. I'm okay right now, you know, for work and everything. And, you know, I'm with my family, so, you know, I'm okay as that relates. You know, I've got a roof over my head, a couch to sleep on. Are you enjoying the peace?

Yeah. I mean, we had peace. John and I had peace. I mean, as crazy and chaotic as our lives were, we had moments of peace. It was always enjoyable. But the extended peace, yeah. But I will say I am getting a little bored. And so I am understanding John in an even deeper way.

Because when life was too quiet, you know, he would seek out ways to. Shake it up. Yeah. Yes. Well, Janice, you deserve all the peace in the world. You've been through quite a lot and very courageous. Thank you.

And above all, I'm very grateful that you came to speak with me today. Thank you for having me. This was awesome. Was there anything from a conversation that's, I guess, that we skipped over or anything that we glossed over in sort of the tale?

I know that there's probably many specific stories, but any details that you really want the audience to go home with? No, I really think that we touched on everything, but if I could, just do a really quickly shameless plug. Okay, of the project that I'm working on, antivirus, A-I-N-T-I-Virus.A-I. If you go there, you can check out.

So on there, what we've done is we've archived John's books, the books that he's written. We've archived his blog, a blog that he was working on during his being on the run in Belize. So you get to hear from John's own words what was happening as it was happening and why he believed he was in danger and how he was able to collect the information. That's all on the project website. So what the project is is just this, what we have done is we've kind of revamped John's vision of having privacy products as it relates to the blockchain. So as you transact on the blockchain, just giving you a little more privacy because as it is right now, there is no privacy, you know, on the blockchain.

on and as you move around your coins and people can see what's in your wallet and see who you're sending money to and see who you're receiving money from so we have these suite of products that kind of help you to kind of cloak your information if you will and and this is important because there has been like an uptick of people being kidnapped and being held for ransom as it relates to their crypto so we're trying to be an answer to that again these are just all ideas john worked on in some capacity before he died also we have an animated series that we just come out with and it's just telling john's story in an animated way it's really cool we just released that and also we have a john mackafee a i which does its own

podcast and it came up with the name waltzing with anarchy is the name it comes up with the content that is in each podcast episode. It was just, you know, the AI kind of giving a dissertation, if you will, on a certain subject. But it's really, really cool. And our hopes with that is to eventually have it interviewing people live. I would be the first one, of course, I'm excited to see what it's going to have to say. That's going to be really weird, actually.

But it's going to be cool. Also, you know, just interviewing people as it. as we fine tune it better. You know, hopefully maybe you could be on there or Joe Rogan or Elon Musk. You know, it would be really cool things that to see John be able to sit down with that we weren't able to see while he was living, but, you know, maybe the AI

could capture the essence good enough. But, yeah, that's the things that we're working on. Also, our hopes with the AI is to also be able to maybe do keynote speeches, right? So, yeah, we're doing all kind of fun things. So that's just a way to kind of keep up with the way that I'm trying to honor John's legacy because I'm sorry. Because he changed my life.

He absolutely changed my life. And I'm so grateful. I'm so, so grateful the risks that he took on me, you know. And I just want to honor that, you know. I want to honor that. the best way that I can. And so this is the way that I'm trying to do that. So it would be great if you guys could check it out.

And, you know, if you want to criticize it, that's fine. But, you know, maybe we can, it can, my hopes is that it could be like a community project and that people that knew and loved John, right, could give their input of what they want to see and how they want to give an input of how they want to honor John or how they think he should be honored and how we can keep his legacy alive,

not just me myself, but as a collective, you know, group. That's beautiful. Like, as I said before, I think John's story is fascinating and exciting and, you know, every part of a Hollywood film. Or a GTA game. Yeah, exactly. But Janice's story is also really important,

and I don't know if the two exist without each other. No, they don't. So I'm grateful to hear his side, but I'm also grateful to hear your side. And hearing how they sort of intercept. sect has been really fascinating. Thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time.

I appreciate it. Thank you for having me for sure. Yeah, as things develop, I'd love to chat more. Okay, great. Thank you, Janice. I'd love to come back. Let's do it.