Camp Gagnon - UFO Hearing Highlights, Trump's Disclosure Plan, & "Go Fast" Debunked

Episode Date: November 22, 2024

Jay Christopher King is the cofounder and director of The Experiencer Group, a private online community for people who’ve had anomalous events of all kinds. He is also the co-founder of the phenomenal Inquire Anomalous conference series in NYC. He will explain the current state of UAP politics, the recent UAP Congressional hearing, Trumps plan for disclosure, & whether the “Go Fast” Video was successfully debunked. WELCOME TO CAMP! Check out Jay's first episode after this one: https://youtu.be/GaZ6t2e_O7k Shoutout to Prizepicks, Huel and SculptNation for sponsoring the show: Prizepicks: https://prizepicks.onelink.me/ivHR/CAMP TIMECODES 0:00 Intro 0:15 Jay Is back 2:45 Current State of UAP affairs 4:35 Origins of UAP Hearings 8:58 Cover Ups 13:28 Lue Elizondo 24:00 David Grusch Hearing + Crash Retrieval 33:28 Project Beta 40:22 Intentional Misinformation 44:43 Immaculate Constellation 53:40 Advanced Crafts 1:01:49 Underwater Craft + Tim Gallaudet 1:04:00 Unasked Questions At Hearing 1:16:28 Mario Woods and Michael Johnson Case 1:28:13 Truth In Folklore 1:35:40 Interdimensional Beings 1:41:30 Sentient Program 1:55:34 Operation Highjump 1:58:55 Admiral Byrd and Antarctica 2:01:00 Hidden History 2:07:38 Artificial Moon Theory 2:11:55 Jacques Vallee 2:15:04 Tucker Carlson + Aliens or Demons 2:18:50 Jay’s Alien Experience 2:30:05 Jim’s Story 2:34:00 Trump’s Disclosure Plan 2:39:25 ARRO + “Go Fast” Debunked 2:47:12 Archeological UFO Crash Sites 2:57:03 Nordic Beings 3:08:35 Comment Your Experiences!

Jay King. Mark. How are you, Sarah? Great. It's great to see you. Absolutely. Great to see you as well. You came...

I love the new tent. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. We're on the woods. We're deep in the woods right now. We are. Yeah, yeah.

Thank you for coming all the way out of here. Five hours. I know. It took forever. Yeah. The hike at the end was intense. It's crazy. I know.

Yeah, you have to park. Four-wheel drive. Thanks for the rental. Yeah, of course. Well, don't tell everyone where in the woods we are. Okay, I know. I won't say anything about that. Yeah.

Backwards. Yeah. Uphill both ways. Exactly. Blindfolded. That way. You don't know where we are. I have no idea where we're, yeah.

We're at a disclose black box location. That's right. But this is the best way to see UAP. That's right. Yeah. Out in the woods. And it has the internet. Conveniently.

Thanks, Starlink. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Starlink hooked it up. Yeah. I've thought about our conversation that we had almost a year and a half, maybe two years ago. Yeah, it was a while. I think it was last May. Yeah.

Actually, yeah. I've thought about that conversation. Like May 20, 23. Yeah. I've thought about that frequently. Ever since that conversation, like, for anyone that doesn't know, you are a leading sort of figure in the UFO, UAP space, in the high strangeness community. You are the co-founder of the experiencer group, which is basically a community that offers support to people that have experienced, you know, anomalous events, things of high strangers, not only involving, you know, UAPs, but, you know, people that have, like, precognition. That's right.

Things like that. Absolutely. And furthermore, you also run a conference here in New York City. That's right. For folks that have experienced things as well, right? Exactly. Absolutely. Yeah.

So that's called the Inquirer Anomalous Conference Series. And I'm the primary organizer of that. And I've been supported in the past by Leslie Kane, a great independent journalist, who actually wrote some of the articles that we might be referencing today. and also James Ian Doley, who you've had as a guest. The gentle giant, UFO Hulk. Jamesie and Doley, he's incredible. The genius himself.

That's right. But yeah, our conversation was just great. At that time, I didn't know a ton about UAP. I was just a casual enthusiast. You know what I mean? I'm fascinated by the topic. I think it's like just my favorite thing to consider. That's why I can't smoke weed anymore.

Because if I, if I puff, I just start thinking about planets and then I start thinking about what you told me, and I was like, dude, this is just too much. I get, I get spooked. But that conversation I just thought was excellent, and we dove deeply into your personal experiences. That's right. Which I'm sure we'll probably touch on here and there.

Sure. But I think the purpose of today, I'm just interested in the current state of UAP affairs. Obviously, in the last month, there have been two congressional hearings. That's right. And then about a year ago, maybe six months after we spoke,

David Grush came out, which was a massive, obviously, a massive hearing. That's right. And kind of just like a, I mean, is he a whistleblower? Is that, is that the turn? Yeah, I think in his case, like, absolutely a whistleblower. Yeah. Yeah. So I would just love to maybe start with, you know, the hearing that happened last week.

Last week. Sure. What was the nature of that and what was the purpose of it? What were some of the findings? Like, what did you think of it? Okay. So last week, thanks, Mark. Yeah, so it's interesting that for years and years and years, within the UFO community,

if you can think of it as such and or the transparency and accountability community in general. I think that there's kind of a wider community that are interested in these topics, partially because, you know, people want to believe in the powers of B, and they don't often, right?

And they'd like to, but often they don't feel like they can, right? And that has a lot to do with the kinds of cover-ups that have happened over the course of, you know, our government and other world government's history. And it is kind of an is-what-it-is-situation. If I was an anomalous experienceer myself

and I wasn't surrounded by other anomalous experiencers, I would be maybe a little bit less interested in that as something that I kind of had to pay attention to. But, you know, given that this is the situation, here's where we're at, right? So there were no hearings for about a million years. You know what I mean? The first, like, 70 years of kind of the cover-up and, like, the actual documentation of UFOs and UAPs from the Air Force, from private defense contractors, from people like the CIA.

Starting with, what, Betty and Barney Hill? Well, yeah, Betty and Barney Hill, but, like, long before that as well, there are folks going back to 1947 and even before that would report interactions, you know, pilots, like, can. Kenneth Arnold in 1947, that case actually kind of brought about the whole idea of the flying saucer. And it's not, weird little minor point. In Kenneth Arnold's case, the ship that he reported didn't actually look like a flying saucer. It didn't look like a plate. He described the motion of it and the way that it behaved was like a flying saucer. So almost like a skipping

You're skipping a stone across water And he said that it had this kind of like wavering effect That to him felt like He described it as a flying saucer But the actual shape of it was more like a boot heel Which is kind of interesting You said a boot heel? Like a boot heel

Yeah kind of like rounded in the front And kind of like either a wedge or a flat in the back Oh wow Isn't that interesting? Yeah and I feel like I've heard other people explain things Kind of in that shape Where they'll say like oh it's flat or on one side and kind of rounded on the other side.

That's right. And that's not like necessarily a unique depiction of what he saw. Like other people have seen that. Other people have seen that as well. And kind of there have been a lot of variations that are along those lines. For example, the Roswell crash, that might be one that is kind of in public consciousness, you know. And it's famous, of course, because this was, it was such a surprising situation. that some reps from the military in Roswell, New Mexico were actually kind of like, you know, they were psyched and they were like, we got one, we got, you know, and actually reported it before, before the kind of, there were procedures about how to, um, to kind of classify this information, which started essentially through the atomic energy act of 1954. We're already getting like way in the weeds here.

But like the Roswell craft actually looked kind of like a Manta, like according to a lot of reports. A Manta? Like a Manta ray? Yeah, yeah, yeah, wow. In terms of its shape. Hmm. Yeah. That's interesting.

So that basically was the state of, you know, UAP affairs for a long time. Yes, yeah. That there was a guy named Donald Kehoe in about 1950 that wrote an incredibly explosive magazine article called the Flying Sources. are real. It was published in January 1950, as I recall. And it was eventually expanded into a book later that same year. And it was one of the

biggest bestsellers of that year. It sold over a half million copies right then. It kind of took over public consciousness in a lot of ways. And the thing was is that Donald Kehoe actually had access to Air Force reps. And so

he was able to talk to this guy named, I think it was Albert Chop, who was the spokesperson person at the Air Force at the time, they were conversant, and Chop had like a pretty good view of this guy, Donald Kehoe, and Donald Kehoe himself had a military background. And so he was a great writer. He was kind of a pulpy writer, but he really stuck to the facts. And at that time, there were a lot of sensationalized reports, even then, of UFOs. And there are a lot of kind of, like, yellow journalists that would kind of like make confabulate details or try to drum it up for essentially like the 30s and 40s version of clickbait right um but uh kehoe had such a great reputation that even people like

carl young the famous psychologist he took an interest in UFOs later in his life and he had incredible favorable things to say about don't kehoe as being like one of the only legit people talking about this back in the day oh wow yeah so how does that bring us into a congressional hearing. Exactly. Why is that coming up now? Exactly. And so what we're dealing with now is that there's this kind of like strange, longstanding cover-up.

And Kehoe saw an openness back at the very beginning, and then he documented the beginning of the cover-up. In fact, his first three books are kind of like, they're talking about it, they're talking about it, and then talking about it. And then even in the second book, he started saying, like, he started saying, like, Oh, they're starting to really kind of clamp down on this thing. They don't want to talk to any about them. What's this about?

And so the hearing that happened last year with David Grush and Ryan Graves and Commander David Fravor and then last week's with Lou Elizando, Rear Admiral of the Navy, Tim Galadette, independent journalist Michael Schellenberger, and a kind of like a pseudo-Nassah rep, this guy named Michael Gold. we're really about kind of addressing within the House subcommittee on oversight. So really looking at accountability issues, transparency, and like, where's the money going? Like, what's going on here? What are we getting?

What are the taxpayers getting for their money? And if the answer is nothing and, like, a basic, you know, cover up of something that is maybe baked into the fabric of reality itself and, like, something that's kind of basic to science, which is that, you know, we may not be alone in the universe, if we even understand what the universe really is, right? Then that's important. And it's great that, you know, it's a popular topic that's very bipartisan, you know. And I think that as far as this goes,

it's important to recognize that there have been whistleblowers within the government that have left the government that left the military industrial complex and have said, you know, at least temporarily, you know, said, come out and said, you know, this is overclassified. Why is it over classified? Like, people should know this because it happens all the time. People have these sightings and have these interactions all the time.

Right. Like almost every day, right? Right. And so along those lines, you know, there's been kind of this, it's like, you know, it's as if something has been boiling and boiling and boiling for decades. And now there's there's just so much Pint up information and pent up kind of anxiety seemingly on the part of the military and Contractors etc that and

Some of the cover up has been kind of ugly Like people have been threatened there's been you know rumors that people have even been like off Yeah, I mean I think David Grush said in his testimony that he has you He knew coworkers that were injured, and they asked whether it was involving the actual, you know, work on the crafts and things like that in and of themselves, or if it was by people within sort of that branch or that arm of, you know, what he was working on. And he said both. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's an interesting, that's an interesting sort of admission. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's important to recognize within this, you know, if some of these topics that we're going to be talking about today. they're going to seem incredible to people because they are incredible topics. This is like, you know, if we can just kind of make a basic assumption, we don't have to for the purpose of the show, but if we can make a basic assumption that there's a fundamental reality, that UFOs exist, and we don't necessarily know what they are or where they come from, but there's been a lot of them.

And these sightings have gone back potentially centuries. So, like, that being the case, and that they're now with the Grush hearing and then now with this El Zondo hearing or however you want to frame it from last week, there's been a lot of word that some of these UAP are seem to be surveilling military sites. They seem to be surveilling nuclear sites often and having other interactions with specific individuals. Now, you know, if that's if that's the case, you know, there's there's something there that seems to demand some answers. Yeah. Was there anything from Lou Elizondo's testimony that stuck out to you? Sure. Okay.

So. And also, would you mind explain just who Lou Elizondo is for anyone that's not familiar? Sure. Yeah. Lou Alizondo, he kind of originally came into, there we go. Yeah. We see a picture of him. Thanks, thanks guys.

Gabe. Yeah, Gabe. Yeah, thanks Gabe. So, Lou Al-Zondo is a military vet, and he, a really bright guy, and he rose through the ranks and really got into counterterrorism and counterintelligence during, like, the Afghanistan war and after in terms of interrogating people, things like that, and really trying to figure out, like, what's going. on with terrorists and, you know, military people in kind of like the opposition side during those years. And he was posted up at places like Guantanamo, you know, really kind of high-level facilities at the time.

And after that, he started working over at the Pentagon doing, again, kind of counterterrorism, counterintelligence, and really looking at kind of foreign intelligence. and things that he can't even talk about even to the stay. Eventually, he got tasked. Okay, first of all, he wrote a memoir earlier this year, and so some of this information has just recently come to light within the last few months, really. But according to his memoir,

he says that he was brought in by this guy named James Lakatsky, who's seen as kind of a huge insider when it comes to crash retrievals. he was brought into James Lackatsky's office back in the late odds and was asked if he had any thoughts

about UAPs and UFOs and Blue was like no I'm sure there's going to be some people that are watching this that are going to be like he didn't exactly say no you know what I mean like I'm paraphrasing here you know right but like he was like I don't really think about this stuff it's not really my thing

whatever or that's his report of it And Likatsky was like, well, maybe you should take a look at this because there's something happening here and we could really use your help. Yeah, I believe his quote was, don't let your personal bias get in the way of your research or something like that. Yes, yes, absolutely. Hey, yeah. It's an interesting, again, another interesting point. That's right. These inner workings of like these government officials meeting each other being like, hey, just keep an open mind here.

That's right. Wild. Wild. Makes me excited. Very wild. So eventually he got tasked with an aspect of what he termed as the UAP portfolio in terms of like active cases. They were looking at unidentified anomalous phenomena. UFOs essentially, right, in all the different ways that UFOs manifest.

And now we kind of are aware that UFOs, we think of them as like these crafts that are off somewhere in the sky. But people see crafts like this undersea sometimes. what are sometimes termed submersible or USOs, right? And then other people have situations where there might be a landing or orb phenomena or things like that that might happen in somebody's backyard. Straight up abduction. Or straight up abduction or non-human intelligences like actual beings right in front of them. So Lou Alizondo, he kind of accepted this UAP portfolio. And there's a, there are two programs related to that one called ASAP.

And then another one called A-Tib. And the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, as I recall, was the one that he kind of ended with at the Pentagon. And this was, at the time, this wasn't the only thing that he was doing at the time. This was kind of an add-on. It was kind of like something that he was brought in to do as well as the normal tasking that he had, some of which he still probably can't talk about to this day because of the nature of what it is. So he did that and then he recognized over and over and over that there's a fundamental reality to this, that there was something there. He was seeing data that was really eye-opening, really shocking to him.

And in his mind, it constituted a kind of a basic reality of our existence here. and that even more than that, that there are situations that seemed to be not just important to national security, but important to kind of civilization in general, and that more people should be, more people should know about it, if nothing else,

so that the stigma could be removed and people talking about it, so that they could just get more data. Interesting, because if everyone feels like, oh, this thing happened to me, but it's so crazy and it's so out there and people are going to think I'm insane so I'm just not going to say anything but if we're trying to sort of piece together what this phenomenon is and where it's come from if it's a you know sort of like an overlay on consciousness

or if it's a interdimensional thing or if it's people from you know things coming from outer space it's like we just need to get all the information down from all the people aggregate all this data and then we you're able to make you know better informed decisions and uh Yeah, just come to better conclusions based off of what we have. Exactly. And so it's not just situations of, you know, there's the public aspect in terms of just the citizenry and the destigmatization that seems important because if you or I see something and then we go tell our friends or our loved ones like, it's all this weird thing in the sky,

you know, they might think you're crazy. But, you know, if and there is, in my humble opinion, there is an absolute reality of the situation, then nobody should feel like they're crazy for just making a basic report about something that they see, you know. And so Lou was really, really looking at that. And then in December of 2017, there was an article that came out in New York Times, written by Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal and Helene Cooper. and they kind of outed, or were talking about how Lou Elizando had just resigned the Pentagon

and kind of a huff and wrote this resignation letter saying that he was frustrated with the over classification essentially of UIP phenomena. It also kind of brought to public consciousness, this guy Christopher Mellon, who was very close with Lou in the last few years there, and he worked as kind of a liaison between intelligence and the DOD, the Department of Defense, and the Secretary of Defense. So he's a very high-level guy, Chris Mellon. And between the two of them,

they managed to kind of get out, declassify or leak, depending on your framework here, those famous cockpit videos that have been kind of baked into the public consciousness for about the last seven years. Like the Tic Tac or the Go Fast? Exactly, exactly.

And so that, article really kind of like outed that like yes in fact there was a secret program running at the Pentagon that people threw around a number of like I think it was 22 million dollars that had been like funded towards some of this it turned out that it seems like most of that money or if not all of it was with ASAP which was kind of like an like a version or kind of a legacy aspect of the ATTIP program And that those videos in that article, what Leslie and Ralph and Aline did there, along with Lou and Chris Mellon, really kind of like set the stage and kind of made a new demarcating point for what people think of as UFOs and UAPs and really the kind of history of such. And by kind of rebooting the topic in general in a way, because, you know, things. through the 90s, we had like the X-Files.

There's, you know, starting in the 70s, there's close encounters of the third kind. There'd been a lot of lore, and, you know, people had been talking about this stuff for years, decades, centuries even. And there had been so much fictionalization and so much stigma that there was a lot of muddy waters about, like, what is, like,

the actual nature of the phenomenon, what's really going on here, where the reports actually look like, Like, what are people actually reporting? Because there had been such a pervasive cover-up. And so, you know, a lot of credit to Leslie, Ralph, Helene, Lou, Chris, and others associated with that. Even just the editors of the Times in general at that time. And people from the DOD, like, in getting that information out,

because it really started the process of normalizing the conversation to the point where you and I can be sitting here without. you know you know not saying you but in general a host thinking that I've got like a tinfoil cap on my head or something like that right yeah it is interesting it definitely feels like and I think 2017 is that demarcating line where prior to that I mean granted I was in you know high school generally but you know if you were interested in this topic it was like an obscure video here or a CD website with you know terrible coding and a forum they'd be like what is even going on yeah just people yelling at each other yeah exactly but then there seems like to be be a deep marketing line right around that time where it's like, oh, now the field has become a bit more academic. That's right. But we have actual geniuses that are working within the government that are now, you know, fully committed that this phenomenon is happening and working actively to disclose it or at least release

information to the public for them to make their own conclusion. Absolutely. Yeah. It seems like, to me, it's an exciting time. And it's, to me, things have only kind of heated up since 2017. Absolutely. Yeah. I think David Grush's testimony was like the moment.

where I was like, oh, is this shit, is it about to come out? Like, is this, is this happening? That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And you were at that one. That's right. Yeah.

Yeah. That was last year. And it's funny because, like, actually, I did a conference. I'll say this year. I did a conference in April of last year. I organized a conference for April of last year. And it actually had Ryan Graves, who later went on to be one of the people that testified at that hearing. And, like, I also.

I was working on that conference with Leslie Kane, who again, like, was one of the writers of the 2017 article. And she actually wrote another article that kind of brought David Grush into prominence. And that was on the debrief. And I believe it was June of last year. Yeah. And so basically when I came to do your show last time, I think you may remember me being like, some things are about to happen. And I was like, eh.

And the thing was is that in planning that conference, you know, I was literally sitting around and like even the days before, like building a stage and kind of an assembly hall and things like this, I'd be hanging around and hearing details and things like that from some of the people associated with this. And like, I couldn't say anything.

And like, you know, Leslie's great about being quiet and making sure that things don't get to, So like I didn't know Dave's name. I didn't you know there are a lot of aspects that I didn't know but I did know that this article was coming and You know and of course I hung out with Ryan Graves at the conference and afterwards we went out to dinner together afterwards and things like this And so then I came and did your show and I was like Big things are and that's like the famous last words right like you always think like it's like okay. Yeah, we'll see it when it well you know we'll see it when it actually happens. Yeah.

And then literally within two weeks of that, I was at Contact in the Desert, which is this, it's like the biggest UFO kind of like entertainment UFO. It's not an academic conference. It's more for like fans and enthusiasts. And it's at this resort out in kind of Palm Springs area. And I was out there. And I had been prepped. Like I was out there and I heard like it's coming out, you know, this, it's coming out the day. that you're leaving town essentially.

And I was like, oh, shit, wow. And so there's this night before the article came out when I was, like, looking around. And, like, you've had Richard Dolan on your show. Yeah. I saw Richard with his wife, like, hanging out, having drinks, like, on the couch. And, like, Danny Sheehan, who's kind of a big disclosure advocate.

He was sitting there, too, and Steve Bassett and all these other folks. And I was just like, I don't think these guys have any idea about what's happening tomorrow morning. Oh, wow. And, like, there's actually a couple pictures of me from,

that night where I'm just like... And how did you go to the hearing? Like, how did that... Sure, yeah. So, um, so, uh,

me and a good friend of mine, Jordan Flowers, who is, uh, another executive producer on the show that I'm working on, uh, that it's coming out towards the end of the year. We can talk about that later.

But Jordan is like the CFO of the, of the, the new entertainment company that I'm working with, called On Tocalyps, uh, along with Kelly. Chase. He's the CFO of On Talk Lips and he's actually now the CFO of what's called the UAP Disclosure Fund. And so they actually did kind of an after event from the hearing last week.

Logan Paul and Jake Paul talked about the UAP Disclosure Fund on their last show in terms of like funding the legal fees for whistleblowers. The really well-intentioned guy. So Jordan calls me up and he's like like, like should we go to the hearing? And I was like, oh yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. And we had and essentially like for a hearing like that there's only up to maybe like 30 spots for the public because there's a lot of reps from the military industrial complex in general and government that take up some of those seats in the background in any of those hearings and um i wasn't like on the guest list i didn't have a plus one i knew a bunch of people that were going to be there and you know I knew Ryan to a degree.

I'd never met David Fravor. I'd never met David Grush before that. But we showed up in D.C. And we basically just stood in line. What you do is either stand in line or you could pay for a line setter. There's like a professional line-setting business for stuff like that down there.

And it's like part of the process. And so Jordan and I were like, we got there at like, fuck, it must have been like, it's okay if I cast on. life show. Yeah, yeah. So, like, it was like 2.30 or three in the morning or something like that. Wow. For like an 11.30 a.m. hearing, right? First one's in the line? Um, we were actually, I think we were like six or seventh. How crazy. Yeah. And, but like at a hearing like that, honestly, like, I think

maybe like eight people after us got in and they didn't set up many chairs. They weren't anticipating the response. Like, I saw security people like in that building, the Rayburn building. That day, they were like, They were like, we have never seen response like that. There were hundreds and hundreds of people in line up and down all the hallways, like in that area of the building. They were like, we've literally never seen this kind of response. They had to put up, you know, like, yeah, it was crazy. And they had to set up an overflow room. Even people didn't even get into that.

It was crazy. Wow. And so, what did you think? Like sitting there listening to Gruscious testimony. Did it, and now I'm sure you've looked back and kind of like unpacked how you felt, but like what was the feeling? Like, what, based off what he was saying, did it all seem like, oh, this is, you know, he's trying to be diplomatic with the military community? Did it feel like, oh, this is full disclosure? What was your feeling?

It felt like he was being very, very forthright. It felt like he was coming from a very well-intentioned place. And that well-intentioned place was a place of like, I have spoken to. I was in a position to know this information, and I have over 30 people that I've spoken with and I've gotten testimony with that have been actually in these programs or have been working on these programs that involve like literal retrieval of UFOs, the crafts themselves, whether they crashed or whether they got recovered in a state. where they were fully intact. And it's like, well, how could that be? But like there's like kind of like rumors and word that places like the CIA Office of Global Access

has been able to recover craft that has been spotted in an inert state like underwater or even in archaeological digs. Yeah, I remember that. That was like, that was the craziest part, like an archaeological dig, effectively meaning, you know, hundreds of years old. Thousands, maybe.

Thousands? Yeah. And we don't have great details about what these could be, but there is word that some of these craft have been recovered intact in situations where they've essentially been just left where they were. Do you have any conjecture on that? Is there any conversation within the UFO community about where these archaeological sites are or what they recovered? Absolutely. There's a ton of speculation about that. Could you give me a couple? I'm so curious.

Oh, sure. Okay, so as far as, you know, people speculate about places like Egypt. Right. Right. And people speculate about that there was, there are like longstanding ruberance that could be just total like pulpy lore. You know, it's important to recognize, and we can talk about this later, that there's like a giant amount of misinformation and disinformation within the space. and that even people that are well-intentioned that are like trying to get information out may also be obligated to lie to people about some of the information that they're getting out there, right? And so there are people that, you know, work within the disclosure movement that literally could be obligated and have signed agreements where, you know, they have to kind of pepper the truth with falsehoods every once in a while.

Within government agencies. Yeah, and or defense contractors, sure. And are they deployed sort of covertly into these communities in order to sort of muddy the waters? Often covertly and sometimes overly. Have any of them been declassified or sort of exposed? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, this is kind of an aside, but like we can get back to the archaeological stuff. Yeah.

But for example, there was a really great case that we actually cover in our show called Cosmosis, UFOs in a New Reality. coming at the end of the year. Check it out. Check it out. There's a guy named Greg Bishop, a really great researcher. He lives out in the L.A. area. And Greg Bishop wrote a book called Project Beta. And Project Beta was about, is the case of a guy named Paul Benowitz, who lived in New Mexico. All right.

He lived in Albuquerque, essentially. And he was within sight. His house was within sight of some airfields for an Air Force base that had some classified material, possibly experimental aircraft going on over there and other elements like that. And he saw craft that were exhibiting odd flight characteristics, kind of coming in low,

you know, kind of zooming around without kind of a general trajectory motion that we associate with conventional aircraft and and kind of like exhibiting odd characteristics with this mountain pass that he had in direct sight. And so being a good citizen, he reported the stuff to the Air Force and said like, hey, I think you're getting watched by something weird. You know, he was kind of, that was his interpretation. And then, They essentially, he got swept up in a disinformation operation where this guy named Richard Doty and other people were tasked with essentially like feeding his belief in aliens and feeding his ideas about about what was happening at this base. And so basically, like, there have been longstanding UFO sightings around this area. It's New Mexico, like, you know, Roswell, all this stuff.

Going back since, you know, before we had experimental aircraft potentially that could exhibit some of these characteristics, okay? But they, it got so far that, that according to Greg Bishop, this researcher who wrote this book, and it has a lot of great documentation attached to it. And I know a lot of significant figures in the field that would be in a position to know really kind of point at this material and being like, this is a very legitimate case and this happens.

It got to a point where like somebody, and Greg thinks it was the NSA, actually gave him a computer like way back in the day that was, attached to like a radio antenna, okay? And they fed, like, messages that were purportedly from, you know, alien beings, like, saying, like, we need to come to your earth. We're worried about the environment, all this stuff.

And they were, like, they gave him the computer and were like, we need you to, like, sit here and feel this stuff. And they were sending him, like, messages that were just being written by some guy, you know what I mean? or a team of people that were essentially lies, that were essentially like supposedly coded messages from some other civilization. What the hell? And they were,

and it wasn't that they were, you know, they, you know, according to Greg and others, like they were worried, not just that he was a member of this group called APRO,

which was a UFO organization, like an enthusiast organization, that had great case history, a woman named Quarrow, named Coral Lorenzen, kind of one of the unsung heroes of euthology, actually kind of ran that organization with her husband Jim, as I recall. And he was a member of that, and so he was kind of plugged in to the community at that time. But you have to recognize, people have to recognize that when you're involved in the subject, you could be kind of like, you could be adjacent to,

literally adjacent to experimental aircraft that are highly classified, like this guy Paul Binowitz apparently was, right? And so they're going to, like, there's going to be like a strong intent, and there's going to be a lot of money in hiding that. With some of these classified programs,

they actually have the budget of the program, there's a budget to the program, and then it can be up to six to seven times the budget of the program itself, and the research itself could be the budget of hiding the program. Oh, wow.

I had no idea. Yeah. So they were just messing with this one guy, Paul Bennox. They were just literally screwing with his head. Yeah,

and they brought him to a certain point where eventually this guy had to be checked into a mental health facility. It ruined his life. Wow. And this was all uncovered

from this one researcher. He was able to access the documents? Yes. He was able to access documents. Other people, they were corroborating documents and there's corroborating information around it but Greg Bishop did like a huge service I think to you know the world in general in bringing this up and you know he took a very balanced

approach he wasn't saying you know these people are evil like why did they bring he was like they had legitimate security concerns and they went and maybe they went too far and you know what I mean and it's kind of up to other people to be like that was definitely too far or however they think about it, right? So then how do you know the information that any one person is getting isn't somehow tainted by, you know, a military intelligence apparatus? Exactly. And the thing, and, you know, the kind of open secret is that you don't, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, and one of the aspects here is that the closer you get to these issues, the closer you get to this stuff, you recognize how much attention is right there. Right. And in those situations,

it becomes like very palpable to people like that and others within the community that, that, you know, there's a lot of money. Yeah. In that. I mean, we're talking about some of the biggest, I mean, I don't know if you remember. Do you remember there's a, I won't name the company, but they make commercial aircraft as well. Okay. And they had some whistleblowers recently. And some of them turned up dead. Yeah, that's a weird coincidence.

And it was about commercial airlines, but they have a strong military component as well. And they, like, there was no, you know, there's nothing happened with that. It's just everybody was like, okay, well, I guess we don't, not going to talk about that very much, are we? Now, you run a conference where people that are interested in these sort of details and also have experienced things themselves come to. That's right. So ostensibly, you must have met someone that is on the government's payroll that's supposed to come to the conference and, you know, be friendly, but also, like, slip in some misinformation. That's a very perceptive question. Now, you don't have to necessarily disclose, but have you ever met someone at these conferences?

You're like, this guy's a fed. I've met people at conferences. I'm not going to say whether they were mine or other conferences, but I've met people that were definitely... Make your antennas go off, really? Yeah, they made my antennas go off, and maybe there was even some more corroborating information either that day or later on that was like...

Wow. And that's not in common. People like Diana Pisalka, who's Dr. Diana Pisalka, she's written about this and some of her material, I think in both her books, American Cosmic and Encounters, great books, by the way, for anybody that's really looking to dive into this stuff, she talks about situations like that

where people are tasked with kind of monitoring the conversation and are especially interested in situations where people congregate in person. Wow. To kind of like case people and maybe like push out information that might not be entirely legitimate. Now I'm starting to think. you're one. Now I'm starting to think you're on the inside, Jay. That's what happens. That's what happens,

bro. Okay, there's this. Your jawline is too sharp. Like, you're, like, you're, like, you're, like, this air force jawline. It's like 90% beard. There's like a butt chin under there. You know what I mean? Like, there's not as, I think you're Air Force, bro. No. Joke. Oh my God. Yeah, like, I am, it's kind of hilarious because I'm, I'm like the least Air Force guy that I can think of for myself. You're probably afraid of a high force. What's that? You're afraid of heights also. Oh, yeah, yeah. Now I am.

Now that I'm in my 40s, man. Like, you know, you develop, you start developing a sense of mortality. I used to ride a bike through Times Square. I don't do that anymore. You know what I mean? This is wild. I never would have, I never would have guessed that. Have you ever been approached by military specifically, like, you know, openly to say, like,

hey, we are a part of, like, this branch of the military and we're looking to come to a conference? Um Actually Not How do I You're kind of putting me in a spot here more But like no it's fine Like there have been people from

Contractors There have been people that have been associated with You know the military industrial complex in general That have worked for Specific kind of startups and initiatives like that that have kind of pinged up as being in or you know somebody will hand you a card or something like that but they could be acting in good faith rightly just because you were for a you know big contractor it doesn't mean that you haven't experienced something or that you're not interested in experience exactly yeah

people have reached out to me from a lot of the scariest branches and it can be really hard to figure out like you know is this person just very well-intentioned and they are just wildly plugged in yeah or is something else going on here. And like, I can understand you even thinking the same about me or anybody else because, like, there's, like, my friend Kelly, who's a writer on the show and, like, one of my best friends. She, um, she likes to bring up this quote from Linda Moulton Howe, who's this older researcher, who really got, like, disinfoed within an inch of her life, like, many times over the course of the last, like, 30, 40 years. And she was like, this field is like a hall of mirrors with a quick sand floor and like it can often feel like that yeah and so you know there's the aspect when

we talk about disclosure it's like you have to be careful in in understanding like the veracity and information that you're getting from the national security state because like it's literally their job and like look at what's happening in the world today it's like we're in a proxy war in Ukraine we're in a proxy war here we're in a proxy war there like we're sending stuff over here We're sending stuff over here. Yeah. And it's like, oh, it's not technically World War III. We're not there yet.

Yeah. Right. As they say, right, the first casualty of war is the truth. Exactly. So. It's a great quote. Yeah. So fascinating.

Yeah. Okay. We can go back to the archaeological retrieval sites now. Sure. Before we jump back into that, I actually just want to cut to just a quick break and just say thanks to our sponsors for support in the show. Also, if anyone listening right now has specific questions, they would like to ask Jay, feel free to comment them. I'm going to look through during the break and we'll come back in with a

couple questions. Sounds great. What's up guys? We're going to take a break really quick because if you're anything like me, you're probably running late all the time. I am. I'm always leaving right when I'm supposed to be somewhere and I never have time to sit down and grab a nutritious meal. And that's why I want to talk to you about this little product right here called Hewle. Hewle is absolutely amazing. It's got everything you need, all the essential vitamins and minerals, all the nutrients, all the protein you need, and a regular meal packaged in this beautiful, convenient little bottle. That's right.

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It's not being so late. Let's just fix that also. Be on time. All right. Sudden alarm. Let's get back to the show. What is the Immaculate Constellation? Okay.

So this is a, it's a really interesting program. And by the way, even the name of it has been said by people like Nancy Mace herself, Michael Schellenberger, an independent journalist, and Jeremy Corbell, who you might know of, all of whom had earlier access to this document, they had heard from their sources that if you even say the name of the document, which you did already. No.

I know. I don't mean to say it. I know, I know. A lot of people have already. You know what I mean? And Nancy Macek mentioned it at the top of the hearing was like, I've heard that like even saying it could get you in trouble. And she was like, come at me, bro.

Right? Wait, really? But like... Someone set me up in the comments. comments, dude. I got cop. I'm never saying it again. That's right. I mean, at this point, now that the hearings happened, I mean, they, the word on the street, according to Schellenberger and Corbell and Mace earlier was that it could get you on like a watch list, like a FISA list, which is what they're called. So, so they'd have an excuse to put you on a list. And like, I don't know how true that is after it becomes part of the congressional record and stuff like this. But yeah, before the hearing, and even now I'm a little dicey of. saying the because I'm like there's enough reasons

to be like I've got enough I've got enough trouble you're already on a list yeah you're already being track don't work enough trouble as it is

yeah but like and so like like what day are we on here she posts a lot now we're looking at a monkey keep yeah keep going you know you might want to go

like Nancy Mace slash the name of the program if you want to say it I'm not saying it you're not going to trick me Jay that's right

what the hell do I didn't mean yeah yeah Yeah, the EC. Yeah, yeah, if you, yeah, now Gabe is even like, I don't know if I want to type it. Yeah, okay, so anyway, the substance of this is, though, is that, like, Michael Schellenberger, this independent journalist was asked to testify because he'd published this, like, information about this document. And there you go, yeah, so if you can bring that up, thanks, Gabe.

And then if you can kind of click in on, if you scroll. down, Gabe, yeah, click on that 1.93 megabole, or open it there. Then we can kind of like scroll through it here. Yeah, whatever you want to do to open that PDF. There you go. Okay. And so if you want to scroll down

a little bit to like section one. Yeah. Okay. So this is essentially about what's termed a USAP. So an unacknowledged special access program. And so essentially what you're saying here is like,

is an unacknowledged special access program is established following the public disclosure of the ATIP OSAP programs by Lou Al-Azondo in 2017, as we were talking about earlier. Upon disclosure to Congress, it was determined that this USAP and its collateral information

have not been lawfully reported to Congress for oversight. Name of the programs. Primary mission is collecting imagery intelligence on unidentified aerial phenomena and ARV-R-V-R-V reproduction vehicles. So the idea there is that that might even be some reverse-engineered craft

or some kind of technology that we have or maybe another world government has that apes the kind of characteristics of UFOs. And there's a strong possibility that that could be the case. It's like anti-gravity, things like that. Exactly, yeah. People like Eric Weinstein

and others have speculated about, like, okay, there was a lot of talk about antigrave in the 50s, And then it kind of went and and there seemed to be a lot of progress made in public and then it kind of went into a deep dark hole And he's like where did these people go where did this research go and then he started tracing it back to like Specific areas of Long Island and Austin Texas and others where he was like wait a second I think maybe these guys got sucked up into something Which is interesting right? So anyway

So ARV RV utilizing tasks and untasked U.S. military intelligence resources as part of a network of SAP's special access programs linked to non-human intelligence aliens and UAP Technologies program name acts as a nexus for collecting, analyzing, and disseminating intelligence on the activities, capabilities, and locations of anomalous aerospace threats that originate from foreign or unidentified sources. If you can scroll down a little bit, Gabe. Like, I just want to get through the... The intelligence within the program primarily consists of high-quality imagery intelligence,

imint, I-M-I-N-T, and collateral measurement and signatures intelligence, mass-int, of UAPs and ARV-R-Vs within Earth's atmosphere. And that's important, Earth's atmosphere. The collection platforms involved are a blend of tasked and untask capabilities in low-Earth orbit, the upper atmosphere, military and civilian aviation altitudes, and maritime environments. So that could be submersible objects like Tim Galette talked about in the hearing. This program pays particular attention to anomalous aerospace platforms that have been developed through the study or acquisition of technologies of unknown origin by foreign nations or unknown entities, UAP and ARV signatures, and preferred operating areas are known to the program enabling a degree of strategic awareness.

awareness and warning. Finally, program name shows that UAP and ARVs are operating around the globe often in close proximity to sensitive foreign assets and locations. So essentially, like, as we go through here and, thanks Gabe, we'll come back. If you can scroll down to section two at the beginning, we'll just talk about that first part here. So like there have been programs going back to, I believe, the late 60s, there's a rumored program called Saint that was actually launched out of Canada, one of Canada's first satellites, went and was essentially tasked with, it was essentially developed by U.S., NASA, and military sources, and was kind of promoted at the time as a Canadian satellite system that was apparently,

doing kind of analysis of objects that might be entering into our atmosphere or like what's kind of like the space traffic looking like up in orbit, all right? And so like that has developed over the course of the last decades and people are starting to open up about it. For example, that guy we talked about earlier, Chris Millen has really talked about this in terms of there are objects like the Tick-Tac that have been tracked going from low Earth orbit down to like the water or even underwater in like 0.87 seconds like 30,000 times faster than our fastest planes. Yeah. Which is absolutely insane.

Or the reverse like coming out of the water and up to orbit and then out in the same amount of time. Right. And it's like. Yeah. No craft can do that. No. And like some of... No pilot could even.

Withstand that. Like if you're a pilot, you know, a human pilot on that craft, let's say it was military tech. Yeah, you'd be a pancake. It would have to be a remote controlled vehicle or a drone or something. Exactly. If it was, you know, our tech. Yeah, and then it would have to withstand that amount of speed. And, like, even that would be very challenging for a lot of the materials that we have.

Wow. All right. And so even if you were to put somebody in there, like people have run the numbers, like this guy, Kevin News, who's an amazing, like, scientist, physicist. and that Professor here in New York and you know people have run the numbers on stuff like this and you would really have to

you would have to essentially have some kind of gravitational what's theorized as some kind of like essentially like a shield a gravitational shield of some sort around the craft itself to make essentially like a space time bubble

within it for or that's the best guess for how somebody could exist, like a biological entity like ourselves, could exist in a craft like that that was moving in that kind of a fashion. Like you'd have to have some kind of segmented envelope where you're not abiding by the normal laws of gravity

within that space. And that actually somewhat tracks to what's been happening overseas because some of these craft seem to essentially be able to move at similar speeds underwater. Wow. And like that doesn't, and to our conventional physics, it doesn't make any sense at all. Right.

Yeah, I mean, wind resistance is one thing. Like, it's dubious that these craft would even be able to, you know, move through the air at that speed. But underwater, I mean, it's however many times more. Right. Wow. And what are those cases, like those documents regarding the underwater craft? There's some really great ones.

There's some really great ones. Because obviously the Tick-Tac comes from David Fraver. That's right. So I had seen that and listened to a lot of his interviews. And he's very compelling. Yeah. But I haven't listened or heard any people speak about the underwater ones. Yeah, the Tic Tac, David Fraver and Alex Dietrich, this amazing, total badass, who was also, she was also part of that flight group.

And it's kind of awesome. I mean, like, people that I know and, like, my niece and things like that, like, it's pretty cool that. that Alex Dietrich that she was part of that flight group as well but um so

so Tim Galadette he mentions uh USOs and actually Richard Dolan is about to release a book on USO cases and he worked on it

a little bit um with Tim Galadette um he kind of sent some of his early drafts apparently to Tim Galadette to see what he thought of these so so there is a

um there is a a foundation called the Soul Foundation They're actually going to have their second symposium this weekend out in San Francisco. This was founded by Gary Nolan, who's a Stanford professor. He has his own medical lab. He has his own research lab out at Stanford. He is extraordinarily well known within his field in dealing with cancers.

And he's kind of all over the place. Yeah, there's Gary Nolan. So he's the executive director of Seoul Foundation. There's another guy named Peter Scafish that's a guy. associated with it as well. He's an anthropologist and another guy named Jonathan Bertha, really nice guy, who are really kind of leading the charge in one respect of several in terms of like what are other avenues other than the national security state that are avenues for like talking about this information. And so they're really trying to push things forward

in an academic framework like essentially from the Stanford campus and around there. There's another one at Harvard and another one at Rice University that are kind of like leading the charge that way in our country anyway. But so Tim Galadette published a white paper recently within gosh, it must have been

earlier this year. It might have been at the end of last year if you can bring up the papers on Soul Foundation or if you want to do Soul Foundation Tim Galadette, Gabe. So Tim Galadette wrote this white paper. and he was pointing out some undersea cases, including one case of a joint Navy exercise

between Canada and the United States of America. There we go. And beneath the surface, we may learn more about UAP by looking in the ocean. So Tim Galadette was more revealing in this white paper that he wrote for the Soul Foundation than he was in the hearing last week. And that's partially because, you know,

he's only answering the questions that he's asked, right? Right. And so if people haven't read this, they wouldn't necessarily be asking him about this. But there's a case in here where he's talking about a joint Navy exercise where divers, Navy divers from U.S. and Canada, spotted a craft, like essentially like a saucer-type craft, a UFO, on the seabed, like off the coast of Canada,

and there appeared to be non-human beings on the outside of the craft that seemed to be doing some kind of a technical operation on the outside of the vehicle. Okay. And not only that, there is reportedly film footage, underwater film footage of this happening. He wrote about it in this paper. This is a rear admiral in the Navy. He's a former Navy oceanographer. This is like a very senior official within the Navy.

Is that this right? Furthermore, the divers claim that they not only saw the occupants of the two, craft trying to repair one of them but also recorded underwater footage of this extra vehicular activity. Isn't that insane? It is only after the recent U.S. military UAP whistleblower testimony that this story seems

credible. What? That is crazy. And so who witnessed this specifically? Like, do we know who actually... We don't know the names. Whoever was manning that submersal. And and I think for purposes of plausible deniability.

Like, again, like for full disclosure, Like, I know Tim Galadette. Like, I don't sit and text him every day. But, like, I, he spoke at a conference that I organized last December. I met some of his family at the Soul Foundation conference last year. I met his mother before she passed. Like, he's a really interesting, great guy. But, but, yeah.

So, like, if a guy like this is putting something in there, he put references in there that were public source references, right? actually from APRO, which we mentioned earlier, with regard to Paul Benowitz. So this was something that was written about by Coral Lorenzen, that UFO researcher back in the 60s and 70s, she kind of published about that case, and then it got kind of hidden for a long time. The APRO records for years, they went missing, essentially. And so there was a lot, there were a lot of questions about, like, what was this? What was this? But if a rear admiral in the Navy is pointing at a case like that and is suggesting in a high-level paper by this new foundation that's really trying to get somewhere and is working with some of the biggest contractors and other institutions on this topic, if he's like, maybe you guys want to look into this. If that's one of the main cases that he mentions, there might be something there. Wow. Yeah. And I know people might listen and be like, well, oh, you could just be making it up short. And it's like, you have to think this is a guy with a reputable military career. Exactly. That's been working in this industry for, what, 40 years? Yeah. Probably something along those lines. And he will be risking his entire career if this, what he's saying is completely fallacious. If it's completely wrong. Right. He's putting everything on the line. And he still sits on on the board of, I mean, if you bring up his LinkedIn, like he's got, he sits on a lot of boards.

for like environmental organizations, like, like, sea-based operations, things like this. He's like, he's, people really point at this guy and really admire this guy. In fact, if you met him, you'd be like, I want this guy to run for office. Like, this is the kind of guy. Like, he just kind of exudes integrity, at least to me. Right. Like, people don't, you know, you can think whatever you want about Tim Gallaudet, but like, but like, I, like, I think that he's a very credible individual. And he put his, he stuck his neck out.

And he risked his, like you said, his career, to put some of these really fascinating cases in this white paper. And you've got to wonder, maybe he knows some information that he can't publish, but has some good, strong inclinations to believe them to be true. And he says, like, and like, where it is, there's film of it. It's like, have you seen it? Like, blink twice. I can't believe they didn't bring that up in the hearing. I know, right? That is, like, that's got to be the first question you asked.

Like, hey, dude, you wrote this white paper. Oh, man. Yeah, tip of the iceberg. Like, you know, it was a two-hour hearing, and there are so many questions to ask. And there's only so much time. Yeah. And, like, you're dealing with these folks, and it's just like, you know, I know for me, and, like, I was in some signal chat groups and stuff like that with some other folks that were like,

you know, like, why didn't they ask about this or why didn't they ask about that? And, you know, I understand also because, like, these, you know, if they're getting fed questions by AIDS, you know and etc. And what else should they have asked at the hearing you think? Were there any other things that jumped out? Oh, great question. Okay, so one of the guys that was on the hearing last week was this guy in Michael Gold.

And he's former NASA. Okay. And he is essentially with a NASA contractor called Redwire, I believe, is the name of it right now. Gabe's like furiously typing to get up who's Michael Gold. Yeah. And so he was basically representing NASA, or he was kind of talking as if he was representing NASA.

But in fact, he works for this contractor. He's like an ex-Nasha administrator. So he's a muckety-muck up there. His former lawyer, he's not, as I recall, he's not, yeah, executive vice president for civil space and external airfares at Redwire. But he was essentially representing NASA. Okay, first, why didn't they just send somebody from NASA

rather than this guy? Like, people hadn't really clocked that this would be somebody that would be out there wanting to talk about this stuff. And in fact, when he was asked a lot of questions, he was kind of swerving them. They'd be like, so what does NASA know about UAP? And he's like, well, you know, we could learn a lot more, you know, in the days ahead, we really hope to learn a lot.

Like, he was... It felt kind of media trained. It felt very, very media trained. Very media trained. In fact, like, one that was in the UFO community, like, NASA, like, there's an old joke that it stands for never a straight answer, like going back decades and decades. And like that seems to be kind of still the case here.

So Michael Gold, he was kind of like sitting there ostensibly representing NASA, but with this level of plausible to liability because he's no longer with NASA and works for this other contractor. So he didn't, he hadn't have to be held accountable for whatever's happening at NASA right now. Right. So, you know, to me, like my personal humble opinion, that's a little weird. like maybe that's good because it seemed to somebody like he could speak a little bit more freely and on another level it's like what are we even doing here if you can't talk about what's happening on the ground these days but the fact of the matter is is that he used to work for

this for 13 years for a company called bigelow aerospace and bigelow aerospace actually kind of was strongly related to the OSEP contract that really was looking at UAP phenomena in the ATS and then kind of fed into the ATIP program later that Louis Alizando was associated with. And so to your question, like what else should have been asked? At one point, Eric Burleson, Republican Representative Eric Burleson, ask Lou Alizando a series of questions. And one of them, he mentioned this independent journalist, Christopher Sharp, who's a friend of mine. He's great. Hi, Chris, if you're out there, amazing work.

So he was like, so independent journalist Chris Sharp just published this report that's kind of a bombshell. And it says that the CIA, actually, the Office of Global Access or somebody else within CIA, blocked a transfer of a retrieved craft that was held by Lockheed Martin and was going to go to Bigelow Airspace slash Ossap. There have been longstanding rumors for years that part of that $22 million that I mentioned earlier for that was spent on modernizing and security for a facility associated with Bigelow Airspace to be able to,

to bring in this craft and have the level of of security in that facility that was necessary. Right? And that's been kind of like a detail that's been kind of covered up for years. I don't know whether it's fundamentally true or not, I want to say, but it's been out there. I think Loua talked about it.

I think he had mentioned that... That's right. That, yeah, there was the deal where, like, oh, it was going to come through and then it gets blocked. Yeah. And he couldn't disclose why or... how, but we know that it gets blocked and it never actually makes it to Bigelow. Exactly.

And so that's exactly right. So Burleson asked Lou at the hearing. He said, so Chris Sharp says that the CIA blocked Lockheed from transferring this craft to Bigelow for whatever reason. Is that true? And he was like, correct. And then Lou Alizondo also said that because he had recently, you know, he had recently, you know, He left the Pentagon, but then he's been doing contracting. And it seems like it may be some of it, at least some of it is for Space Force.

So Lou is like, I signed an NDA a couple years ago, and I literally can't talk in great depth about crash retrievals. Like it's one topic where I'm like really not allowed to talk about it anymore. And people like Ross Coltart and other journalists now say like, well, maybe he got read into the program. Maybe he got read into a program where he's more directly associated with this stuff. I don't know that to be fundamentally true, but, you know, it was interesting. And I think that there was a lot of frustration for people, for some people watching, that, you know, Lou was a little bit more bound to these kind of security protocols and these NDAs. And, you know, Grush last year had similar situations. And he was like, I can talk to you about it in a skiff.

we can talk about it later he got blocked from doing it in a skiff later but why was he blocked from the skiff do you know there even at the outset of last week's hearing

I think it was Jared Moskowitz was complaining that that in his opening remarks that they had been that members of the panel congress people had been approached by people within the intelligence community

and maybe elsewhere, telling them to not ask specific questions to specific panelists. And that he was really frustrated by this kind of like backdoor influence campaign to not ask certain questions of certain people. Wow. Right.

Yeah, it seems very strange. Like, you know, like even seeing like interviews with Lou, he seems like very open, he seems very candid. And, you know, ostensibly, like, is very much a proponent of disclosure. Yes. But then in the hearing, they were asking him questions, and it seemed like, I don't know if it was intentionally done this way,

but there was like six or seven questions in a row where he was like, technically I can't discuss this, I can't disclose this. Like it seemed like there was a lot of, you know, on the one hand, it's like, oh, we're blowing the whistle, but another hand, it seems like there's a lot of red tape about what's allowed to be disclosed. Absolutely. It's like, is this really even a whistleblowing if the DOD is allowing what's being blown? That's right.

And that's a very good question. And, you know, I think that there are people like, a friend of mine is this philosopher named Jim Madden. And he wrote a book about a year ago called Unidentified Flying Hyper Object. Really great guy. And he really dives into kind of like the ethics of this stuff. And like, you know, philosophical issues, like, what is true? And like, what's the nature of truth? How do we come to an understanding of what truth is, right?

You know, kind of the big pictures of things like this. And one of his points is like, you know, if you're getting disclosure from the same organization or adjacent organizations from the people that are covering this stuff up, how do you really approach the veracity of the information that you're getting? Right. Because are we just really getting like two different sides of a similar coin that are kind of managing the upper and lower kind of poles of this? Right. The opposite of a lie isn't necessarily the truth. It could just be another lie. Yes, exactly. If the truth is in the middle somewhere, you can't just look at the opposite and be like, all right, this is actually the truth. Yeah. And so along those lines, what it feels like to me anyway, like I don't, I have nothing against Loe-Lazondo. I have nothing personally against, like, I think that that disclosure for myself, like, I think that it was really brave of him to do what he did. Like, not just in the hearing last week, but, you know, the original 2017. article, him resigning, him really

like bringing attention to the issue. Absolutely. No, it just seemed like his hands were tied in the hearing. Exactly. It just seemed like there was... Yes, there was that. Like, it felt like he wanted to say more and couldn't. That's right. Which is a shame. Yes, yeah. It was a shame. And I think that, you know, what you probably clocked into and others

have as well, and I saw when I saw it, is that there's frustration on the point of some of the Congress people. And I know that Annapolino Luna, Representative Anna Paulina Luna after the hearing was like Why are we going to bring these people in if they can't talk? You know essentially paraphrasing but she basically said that Yeah, it seems like it was to get some things on the record

That's leading into Trump's presidency Yes Like it seems like as we're about to have an administration change Let's bring in you know like the Foremost intelligence experts on this issue And get their statements on the record going into Trump's presidency. That's what it is That's kind of the way I interpret it, because there was no, like, major bombshell, you know, quote-unquote. But there were really interesting things I found throughout.

But it just seemed like, okay, let's just get everything out, written down, and then we'll move on. And that's kind of the way I interpreted it. Yeah, I think that that's a really great way to look at it. I think that kind of like laying that stuff out as it was is extraordinarily important. Representative Burleson had kind of some bullet points from that day that were great along those lines. I mean, there were some nice reveals like the block of that crash retrieval. And it is important. You know, it's easy for us to have kind of in this media landscape and given just the state of things these days that it's like, you know, there was the holy shit moment last year where it's like, oh my God, crash retrieval programs and bodies, they have bodies.

And they're just saying it. Biologics. Biologics. Biologics. Which, you know, essentially, you know, a lot of people have some questions about it. Is it like remote controlled like AI bodies? Like, what are these? Right.

And then here we are a year later. And, and Luz, like, yeah, like there was an attempt to pass a craft from one defense contractor to another defense contractor and was blocked by somebody in intelligence. And we're just, and like in any other year, in any other landscape, and maybe even closer to a year ago, that would have been like a huge bombshell. Yeah, I mean, it's crazy because we're not even disputing, oh, do we have craft? We're disputing, like, internal logistics of getting craft delivered and, like, bureaucracy blocking it. And that's the conversation. Right. You know what I mean?

It's like, oh, yeah, I heard this unicorn was trying to go from the Bronx to to Cincinnati. Right. And it was like, but it got stopped. And everyone's like, oh, yeah, that's annoying. It's like, put time about a unicorn. This is like, why is it not being talked about? Exactly. Yeah, it's very strange that Dash is being brought up and it's kind of blazze.

It's like, oh, yeah, you know, that's how the government is. Exactly. And there was more word, again, that was kind of confirming from various people on the panel. Like, in terms of that UFOs, UAPs have been, seemed to be surveilling or even stalking, like military formations, safety of flight issues, issues around surveillance. of nuclear facilities. They seem to be extremely interested in our nuclear developments. Right.

And, you know, there's kind of more word along those lines, which, again, is something where in any other year, or, you know, like, that might be a bigger headline. You know, UFOs, like,

going around and being really interested in launch facilities. Like, and this goes back decades. There's a, whistle, there's a legit whistleblower that spoke to Arrow. We can get into who Arrow is later if you'd like. But named Mario Woods,

who actually, he's on our show, Cosmosis, coming later this year. Mario Woods is a very legit whistleblower who worked at Ellsworth Air Force Base, a nuclear launch facility. Back in 1977,

there were UAP spotted over the launch facility where he was. And like where they were, they saw this thing up in the sky. And Mario got this idea because his dad was like in the merchant marines or something like that. And they used to turn off all the lights on a ship and turn them back on again to try to get some communication. If there was like a rogue ship on the water and they wanted to come to SOS by flashing lights. Yeah, things like this. And so he was like, okay.

And so he like flicked on and off the lights of this kind of outpost and the lights flashed back from this giant thing that was in the sky. It just went on and off like two or three times, right? And he was like, oh shit. So he did it again and it flashed back again. And then he tried it a third time. And the lights went off and they stayed off. All right? And he was like, okay, that's strange.

Then hours later they got a ping from an actual. missile launch silo, right? Like a couple miles away from there. And it was a 1.1 megaton like missile launch site. Like this thing could have done serious damage, right? And they get this ping that there's been an incursion. They go, like he and his partner Michael Johnson, they drive over to the site. And as they drive over, there's a, they see.

What he thinks is that same thing in the sky. And he describes it as basically like a giant. It looked like there's some field around it, but a giant ball, and he terms it as like the size of a super store, like the size of a Walmart or something like that in terms of its width and its height. Like it was as tall as it was wide.

And it was like the size of like a grocery store at like a strip mall or something like this, right? And it was hovering 10 feet above like the doors like that silo doors to this underground nuclear launch site, right? So and like this is like a wild case that like that has been covered up for years. So Mario like he goes to the site with Michael Johnson. His partner who's driving is just like frozen essentially. like Michael, we got to get out there. Michael's just like, they park,

and Michael's just basically like that, is how he describes it. And so Mario's trying to ascertain what to do, and all of a sudden there's just this big light. He's sitting there under this thing, giant fireball, again, 10 feet over a nuclear missile launch site. Right? Very, very sensitive installation.

And then he, like, there's this weird black ball that shows up like over the hood of the pickup truck that they're in. Okay? And it seems to like scan them like a drone and then it zips off

and he feels this kind of weird sensation. He looks over to his right and he sees four beings like three small grays and one tall gray like according to him. Like the three small and then a one all behind them.

And they weren't walking towards him. They were gliding as if they were like levitating slightly over the ground towards the vehicle. Okay? It's a wild story. So he heard in his mind, do not fear as this happened, okay? As this happened, he passed out. Like it just went, he just said it just went, it was like that, right?

Just his, his eyesight just like closed down like a barrel. okay he wakes up hours later hours later and the entire pickup truck had been moved like at least three to five miles away from where it was it's in the snow is in mud and snow okay and it turned out like he there's somebody there's a radio that you know people were trying to contact him It turned out they had gone missing for hours All right And they were miles from where they were supposed to be He just wakes up

And then they get found there You know there's like a rescue operation to go to go get him And get this There are no tire tracks or footprints Leading to or away from the vehicle From where it was found And what year was this? 1977

Wow Yeah So both of them did they both kind of document the same experience? Michael Johnson. Okay, this is interesting. They both got debriefed right afterwards. And it was an extensive debrief and Mario was essentially threatened. You know, like don't, you're not ever going to talk about, you're not going to talk about this to your wife. You're not going to talk about this to anybody or you're done. You know, it's over. And he had one conversation with his partner that night, Michael Johnson, after that, a couple weeks later.

Michael Johnson showed up at his door and was like they'd been separated and they'd been essentially like sent home and like we're and later and quickly thereafter Michael Johnson apparently and Mario Woods were both transferred to other facilities and this is something that happens often when somebody has an extraordinary encounter like that in the military they get separated from the people that they get intimidated they're like you're never going to talk about this and then they separate you from you from. anybody that you know like there's other cases like this going back decades wow so he got sent overseas he got sent over to the south pacific from south dakota like he got separated from his wife they they had like he was gone so long they got divorced like he was like this was not a very happy situation for mario woods and he by the way he's an amazing individual this guy is 69 years old he's built like a tank he's an incredible individual and like he went on like he had had to keep the secret, right? And then he went on to work, he got a job with the Department of Energy, like actually working at Los Alamos, which is to people in nephology and others. Like, it's like there's

a lot of lore built around Los Al-A-Lazars. It was one of the places he was, yeah. Right. Right. And like, and there's apparently a lot of secrets associated with that place. And like, you know, he ended up working there much later and some people attribute that to him being able to keep the secret while he was active duty about this happening but later he blew the whistle and was like this is this actually happened and there's been a longstanding cover up about this case because there's there there's a paper trail that's missing like there's documents that should exist from that night that have completely that aren't there. And like there's even medical record. Like he was, you know, they did like swabs of his mouth and all sorts of stuff like for, you know, any kind of biological after effects. Like all those

results got locked in a file somewhere and like those went missing as well. And, you know, and the fact of the matter is is that there are significant people around Mario that are are well-regarded people within this field that are associated with National Security State and stuff like that, that continue to really, you know, support Mario and to be around Mario, you know? And there's nothing around Mario's case that seems to, that lends less veracity to his historical account.

You know, there's been nothing, there's been nothing debunked about him. And in fact, like, it seems like he's just, at this point, like, allowed to quietly say what he does, but it just, the information doesn't get very far. Wow. And that's Mario Woods, his partner. Michael Johnson disappeared. And Mario Woods has been looking for him for decades.

What? And, like, other researchers have been trying to find the guy, too. Nobody knows what happened to Michael Johnson. People wonder whether he got killed, whether he died, like whether he changed his name, what the heck happened to Michael Johnson? He just, like, he seemingly disappeared off the face of the earth. Wow.

Now, he didn't say that there was any type of interaction with the grays or, like, any type of abduction necessarily. He has a fragmentary memory where, okay, so his recollection is, like, these three small grays and one tall, like, glide over towards the side of the pickup truck. Again, giant flaming ball, like right over here. Nuclear launch site, missile silo, underground missile silo, launch doors right there.

Being zooming up to his, like, military pickup. And he hears, do not fear. Like, it goes, and then he has a fragmentary memory. He had gloves. It was the middle of winter, and he has this fragmentary memory of, like, him looking and seeing a glove on this kind of, like, pristine floor. And then, like, two days later or something like that, he was like, oh, yeah, there is this memory of this glove. And then he looked in his pack from that night, and he was missing one glove. And that's, like, one of the only things where it's like, like, I woke up in the truck.

I passed out in the truck, but I do have this one memory, and it's of this, like, weird floor and this one glove, and the glove went missing. And then he's like, the only other memories that I have, he's like, I don't know for whatever reason. I started having dreams about, like, war and, like, nuclear war and, like, bombs and missiles and stuff like this. He's like, I don't know what that was about, about kind of, like, ecological issues, like environmental disasters. And he was like, and I had to start researching about pyramids for some reason. He was like, I have no idea like why I cared about pyramids before. Like, I never cared about pyramids before that. But all of a sudden after that, and it seemed like it was tied to it, like I needed to research everything I could associated with it.

And he was like, I don't remember a conversation about it. I don't remember anything except for that glove. But for whatever reason, I became obsessed with figuring out what the heck was going on with those pyramids. Wow. Isn't that weird? So bizarre, especially like even the details of his case mirror so closely to any other person I've spoken with that has like had interaction with, you know, this phenomenon. Yourself included. Right. Weird little details that you would have to have known his story before you told your story type thing. You know what I mean? Exactly. Like even, you know, mentioning like, oh, the gliding. Like I've heard like, oh, like these grays, like they will glide or like they'll almost walk in kind of like a weird land. Exactly distorted type thing. Yeah.

Or sort of like the telepathic communication thing, which is just another interesting ripple like, oh, I was speaking to them, but neither of us were talking, but we're, you know, sort of... Mind to mind. Yeah, trading information some way. Yeah. Very, very interesting. That, like, the details, like, I don't know, I read Jacques, Jacques Valet's book, Letters from Mangonia. Oh, Passport to McGonia. Passport to McGonet. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, great book. by the way. Excellent. Highly recommend it.

But, I mean, once you kind of read that, you're like, like, either, it's all the same thing. Like, whatever's been going on for a millennia. Yeah. More than that. I mean, you know, he dates it back. I think his earliest ones are, like, basically, like, written history. Yeah.

Like, it's so, so old. And he basically makes the case that, like, you know, these stories of, like, elves and dwarves and gnomes. Like, we have them in pop culture sort of as, you know, these funny little characters, but they oftentimes have sort of like sinister or mischievous characteristics in the lore of the, you know, countries that they come from, whether it's, you know, Scotland or Ireland. And again, these types of little characters exist basically all throughout the world, whether you're in, you know, Australia, you know, South America, Africa,

there are, you know, continents and countries within these contents that have these types of lore. That's right. But their stories resemble so much these kinds of stories where it'll be, you know, some peasant in the 1400s. It's like, I was. I was walking home with a loaf of bread, and I got this strange feeling, and then I heard a spirit talking to me, and it said, fear not. And then I saw this leprechaun, and it ran into the woods, and I kind of watched it, and it didn't look like it was running. It was almost gliding into the woods. And it's like, this is the same exact thing. We're just calling it a different name.

Yeah. It's like the window dressing is different. Right. Like the curtains are updated, right? But, like, the fundamentals of what's going on here. Yeah, and again, I'm not here saying leprechauns are real, but I'm saying that there are some, the stories of leprechauns are real that people are claiming that these things happened and they could be lying if they wanted to, I guess. But it is strange that there are details from all of these types of stories that persisted throughout time that all have these weird little overlaps. Exactly. And so yeah, yeah, it's unsettling when you hear these kinds of things. And I mean, your story included. I mean, that's right. Yeah, the way you shared it, like you've had. telepathic communication with beings. That's right.

They were like right there in front of me. Downloading information. You're like, whoa. Yeah, that's right. And I don't, you know, and I don't, I think another thing along those lines is that I, first of all, I want to get back to Jacques Ville like in a minute because like Jacques Ville is incredible. He's amazing. And there's so much to still learn from Jacques Ville. And one of the things that Jacques Ville and his contributor, like his kind of co-collaborators, which include Gary Nolan, but also Chris Aubelie.

who really kind of dives into the historical situations of like cases from old Roman history where they saw flaming shields in the sky and stuff like this. So, you know, there's Chris Abeck is one of them. They wrote wonders in the sky together. That kind of was a follow-up to passport to McGonia. But yeah, like, so, you know, in these situations, we have this kind of bias towards presentism that like what we're dealing with now is like the legit.

thing. And so there is there is that kind of understanding that it's like, okay, well, maybe they presented differently to these other cultures. And, you know, people would see them wearing funny hats that were a little bit like theirs or something like that in these historical accounts. Like in Evans Wins's Ferry Faith in the Celtic countries, which was written in 1912, or published in about 1912, and was heavily referenced in Passport to Magonia by Jacques Ville. He kind of goes back to that particular reference. point quite often in there. It's one of the best records and kind of compendiums of of fairy lore and things like that. But, you know, a lot of that, those cases, they're interesting because people like

Joshua Cutchin, who's a contemporary kind of anomalous folklorist, like studying like anomalies through the history of folklore, for example, they're looking at like, you know, we would get these cases together and some of them are just total outliers where it's just like, oh, somebody was probably just telling some stories around the fire. And then there are these other situations like, like you said, where just a lot of the details really line up. And so then it's like you're not saying leprechauns are real, but like we also have to maybe recognize that like maybe the grays aren't like the fundamental unit of reality either.

That you know that that could be like that they in some ways could be like a puppet. Or they could be like, like when Crush says non-human biologics, are they like some kind of AI-driven, remote-controlled body? Right. You know, like there's a lot of questions about things like that. And, you know, what's behind that intelligence? And, you know, in 100 years or in 200 years, will people have a better understanding that, you know, even the grays may have been kind of a placeholder for what's essentially. behind some of this phenomenon. And like, I don't have the answer to that.

You don't have the answer to that. But we have to keep kind of, like, walking into this mystery. And sometimes that involves having more questions before we get more answers. Yeah, my general feeling after reading his book is like, and again, with no real evidence other than, you know, like, just things that I've read and people I've talked to, but, you know, I've never experienced anything, even supernatural. You know what I mean? Like, I'm a fairly, I'd say, religious person.

You know what I mean? I believe in God. I go to church. But, like, I've never experienced any type of supernatural apparition or anything of that nature. So with that being said, I oftentimes think about this topic as almost like some type of, like, consciousness. I think it's, like, ultimately a overlay of consciousness, which is why, like, one person or a group of people can see it and other people might not see something. And it's because it's existing sort of. not in their mind, but in the realm of like their experience consciousness with reality,

like what they're actually interacting with. And the problem is these stories like Mario, what's name? Mario Woods. Mario Woods is that now you're having physical manifestations of these, you know, visual things like the truck moving with no tire tracks where it's like, oh, maybe they're now interacting, you know, in our actual world, which is concerning. That's right. But, yeah, I just, I don't know.

I did think one of the interesting questions from the congressional hearing to Lou, I believe, was the question of interdimensionality. Yes. And I think, I forget who asked him it. But one of the Congress folks said, you know, are these things interdimensional? To which Lou, I think, said, oh, I can't answer that. I deal with nuts and bolts, I believe. Yeah. Well, and Gresh was asked last year whether these things could be interdimensional.

And I believe it was Mace that asked that question. It was either Mace or Luna. Yeah. And yeah, there's a lot of question about that. And I think that there's something maybe to that where, you know, one aspect that comes out recently, there's this term called the Umbelt and the Uber Umbelt. And the Umbeld is essentially like the around world. It's the German term that means the around world. And it's like what demarcates your perception or the world?

perception of like a tree or your dog or whatever you know and for example jim madden that philosopher that was talking about earlier he's like you know there's there are certain types of ticks right and like all they can sense is like blood sources they can sense that blood's in a certain direction you know they're trained to find blood they can and they can detect a heat source so that they've got a better area for where that target is and they can detect changes in temperature and they can detect maybe like, I think it was humidity level, or like, you know, dry versus wet,

or like when they're hitting skin, essentially, and that's it. And, like, that's about all that they can... Oh, and butyric acid, for whatever reason they also have detection for what's termed as butyric acid, which I think is kind of a little bit like ammonia or kind of like residue that would be on some skin.

So they have four senses effectively. Yeah. But like, think of all it's missing. It's like it's not, you know, it can't hear, you know, the best fucking pop tune on the radio today. You know what I mean? It can't, it's not going to hear our language. It's not going to know what terms we're using. It's not going to know what a car is.

It's not going to know, you know, what's the country of France versus the United States. There's so much that it's not going to know. It's not going to know what a dog looks like versus a cat versus whatever, right? Like that's the limit of its senses. And so, like, that tick can come on you and it can get blood out of you and it can do its mission. But, like, and it'll have been on your body. But it has no idea that you're even you. It has no idea that even the size of probably of the being that it's that it's attaching itself to.

It's just not wired to do that. And so there could be a real situation here where we're in a similar boat where we've been evolved. We've evolved over how many hundreds of thousands, millions of years to have sight and hearing and smell and touch. And, you know, and we have our senses. And then it seems that there's some realm like you're talking about that is maybe even just beyond our senses. And it could be right here, right alongside of us, evading our senses. you know there's there's this kind of bias in our culture and there there are folks you know there there are scientists of perception and kind of consciousness studies that joke about us being as

humans having a strong bias towards medium-sized objects you know meaning that like all of this is real but if something is like an atomic level or if it's at a planetary scale that all of a sudden it becomes just a wash. Yeah. And so, you know, there are other theories that, like, maybe some of these intelligences, maybe they live in some kind of pocket dimension. Maybe they live in some other, like, just adjacent to us, like, as if they're on a different radio frequency

that's, like, right here and may even be overlapping with us at all times. But they have developed the technology or, you know, the scientific process or whatever to get over here to where we are and we haven't and we're just that close but we haven't quite gotten over there yet and maybe that has something to do with why they're monitoring us so closely if we're going to go out on that limb

but I think we can you know which is like you know maybe you know we're pretty smart monkeys you know when it comes down to it or we found ourselves to be over the course of the last few hundred years you know the industrial revolution all of a sudden we had cars all of a sudden we could fly

All of a sudden we could get to our own moon. You know what I mean? And here we are on the precipice of maybe getting far beyond that. But maybe there's something like right next to us that doesn't need, you know, the largest rocket ship ever made. Maybe it's something to do with nuclear. Maybe that's why they're so obsessed. We don't quite know yet, you know. And maybe it just has to do with our elements of being able to detect or sense something that's like right beyond us that could give us

some of those clues. But whatever it is, it seems where, you know, and again, this might be just another case of presentism where we, there's a bias towards like us and really knowing something right now. But maybe we're, maybe we're really close to stumbling on what that is. And that document, you know, I'm from front from, right? They're talking about these advanced detection systems. and one of them, they were talking in there

about machine learning models and there's a... Yeah, there you go. And like, there is a... There's a program that that... that closely aligns with what is talked about

in the document. And you can look up a Wikipedia page on it. It's called sentient. And it's probably, and is rumored to be, like the main sensor array system that that document is actually talking about.

It's not called. Like, maybe there's some truth to what that program name is, but there, you know, anybody can find it on the internet. There's a program called Sintient. And it's a sensor array system that is partially seemingly, it's highly classified, but it has AI training built into it to look for and identify, like any kind of object in low orbit, anything kind of entering our atmosphere. atmosphere exiting our atmosphere, etc. Yeah, there you go. So scroll down a little. It's a heavily classified artificial intelligence

satellite analysis system in the United States operated by the NRO and developed their advanced systems. Available information describes as a complex automated system that allows intelligence agency of the U.S. to use artificial satellites in Earth orbit to track any real-time objects detected or photographed and to automatically repurpose with artificial intelligence

and machine learning the tracking of targets and to even decide which targets are worth tracking. Interesting. And what is the implication of this? Okay, so that document that was kind of put up last week in the hearing that Michael Schellenberger and Jeremy Corbell had kind of early copies of and Schellenberger was directly talking about. Okay, so that document, some of the congresspeople, you know, for good reason, were like, well, who gave you this document? Where are they from? Like, what's their deal?

And he was specifically pressed about, like, where are you getting this document from the Department of Defense? And going out on a limb, I think one of the... And he was like, I can't answer that. And they're like, there's a lot of people in the work in the Department of Defense. You're not going to give up a source

just by saying that they work in the DoD. And he's like, I can't answer that. And I think that one, you know, there's been speculation that, again, like we were talking about with regard to what Jim Madden, And then others talk about it's like like the DOD kind of swats cases down left and right through arrow and through their spokesperson Susan Gao Susan Goh and others they swat down cases they debunk cases and then on the other side they they push for they they push things forward a little bit through other mouthpieces and so they you know there's this idea that maybe they're kind of like creating a funnel a kind of like controlled disclosure if you will around around this phenomenon. Like the upper and lower bounds for what people are really going to talk about, what they're really going to explore.

And there's a case to be made that there's like that's an issue of responsibility and like managing people's expectations. You know, you don't want people running around going mad in the streets or whatever. But at this point, it's like 2024, man. Like, shit's pretty crazy as it is. And everybody kind of already believes in aliens anyway. So, you know what's really the problem here? Yeah, it seems like we're right on the edge. Yeah.

And so, you know, they were asking, like, well, who gave you this doc? And the thing is is that, like, you know, sentience, apparently, like, a very real domain awareness program. And, like, I've heard, you know, rumors about this for years. I don't get into classified stuff. Like, I don't want to have classified documents. I don't want to touch any of that kind of stuff for obvious reasons. But, like, you know, there's a, you know, we just, Gabe just brought up that Wikipedia page. It's just right out there.

And there are people that are associated with the, disclosure movement that would probably have been in a position to be aware of the findings of of sentience program and deep in that Wikipedia page and in the document the Schellenberger produced they're talking about how there is the sensor array platform or several and then that program part of it is is so that AI and algorithms etc. can find these you know the anomalous flight characteristics and et cetera and find all that stuff and then essentially sequester it you know kind of stovepipe it throw it over here for the for the people that have authority to be looking at uap cases and then everybody else in the military intelligence community won't even

see the data right is it possible it's just collecting like asteroids and stuff that's flying in like there's space guards and stuff that's coming into the atmosphere all the time oh it's absolutely doing that as well and that's great too because like you know there's There's been plenty of movies made about that, right? We don't want to get, you know, we don't want to, you get surprised with a meteor one day. Yeah, right. Poffice.

Have you heard about that one? No. Oh, I think it's 2028. There's like, uh. Oh, is it the one that's supposed to come on Valentine's Day or something like that? I forget. It's April, I believe. Okay.

I think it's 2028, but then 2032, it's going to come right back. I'm pretty sure. Same date. And it's just a massive asteroid. It's like the size of like, uh, like the Rose Bowl. It's like giant. And it's supposed to come within like a couple thousand, 100,000, something. Oh my God.

Oh, yeah, it's an asteroid that ervis the sun every 324 days. It will make a close pass in 2029. Yeah, and it's a massive thing. People, like, it's apparently way bigger than like the Tunguska event. Wow. Yeah, that happened to hit Serbia, I believe. Yeah, crazy. So I'm glad it's tracking some stuff.

How many people do you think are going to bet on that? They're going to be like, I'm going to put my money on where it gets destroyed. Well, I don't know if it was the whole, no payoff. Apparently if it hits... I was right! It's just like Earth's exploded. Yeah, they'll get paid out.

As long as your parlay hits, it's kind of all that matters. I don't care if the world ends. But if it hits the ocean, it could be worse than it hits land. Like, because if it hits the ocean, you get tsunamis. And basically, like, if it hits a Pacific Ocean,

like the entire west coast of, you know, America. California is basically just like... Turnt water. Yeah. Kind of sketchy. It's freaky, man. Maybe in a lookout for that. Yeah, no.

But, yeah, the... I'm glad it's tracking. some stuff. Absolutely. But do we know if Sentient is tracking UAP is that disclosed also?

We're deducing that based off of the document that was out there. Well, there's that and then even on the Wikipedia page, it's like there are some paper ties

to the old UAP task force in other locations that would say that like there was analysis and there were records that were

flowing to places like the UAP task force. If you scroll down, Gabe, um, history, keep going down.

I'm doing this as if like I'm going I mean, yeah, there was one moment there. Gabe, if you, can you go to the other UAP reference if you click down on the little tab thing? If you hit that down arrow, I think it'll bring up the other one. Can people who are watching this see what we're looking at?

Yeah, oh, that's nice. They should be able to. Okay, great. Yeah, public details. Yeah, keep going down, I think. Let's see. National Reconna. Yeah, see, UAP Task Force revealed in

22, the Sintiant program had involvement with C NRO revealed in 2022 that Sintient had involvement with the United States Department of Defense's Unidentified Aerial Phenomeno task force in tracking and research of unidentified aerial phenomenon, also known as UAP, in June 2022. Wow. It sounds better in your voice because these people, you know, that one is interesting, June 22. NRO declassified and released two unique and redacted reports on sentient activities related to UAP sightings of what was described as. a quote, tick-tack shape and other successes at detecting UAP.

Interesting, right? Hmm. So, you know, this report comes out, and they didn't get to this level, because first of all, Sintient wasn't named in the document. Right. It just acknowledges, like, some AI detection software in the atmosphere. And the doc itself, it seemed to be scrubbed. The only real name that was in it was Lou Alizondo's name,

and he was saying right there. And Lou was briefly asked, like, and he said, like, I haven't read that document. And the moment just kind of passed because he was getting barraged with questions. Right. But, you know, there's a good case to be made. There's a decent case to be made. I'm not saying that this is completely it or not.

But this document could have been produced with like before this hearing. This hearing had been announced for months. Tim Galadette months ago was like, I'm going to do the next one. They haven't fixed a date for it. But it's probably happening in fall sometime around the election. Right. And so then, you know, this document. document comes out, it gets fed to

Michael Schellenberger and it gets fed to Jeremy Corbell and they're like, it's good source, it's good source. But there's not many much actionable data in there. Like the data that's in there is just that the program exists that like this is what it's doing. But there's kind of not many dates attached

to it. There's no names attached to it. Program names or like personnel names. You know, if something's like a real whistleblower dock, you'd think that there'd be some more breadcrumbs on that trail rather than just comes like some procedural old blow-by-blows about what's going on there. And so it seems

there's a case to be made possibly that there's a basic legitimacy to the dock but by it getting fed anonymously then there's no track record and so there's deniability built into it and then by not having even saying the name of the sensor array

or what have you that is really looking at the stuff or names attached to it then it kind of like creates this this like stopping point This inbuilt organic stopping point that's like, well, if they just got this doc, like the week before or the day, that day or whatever, then like how deep are they really going to get past that dock? They're not going to be able to ask deeper questions about who these people are, where they're from, or anything like because they don't know. That's interesting. Does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. I want to ask about Trump and whether or not he's going to disclose. I know this has become, obviously, the UAP community has become politicized. that there's people on both sides that feel strongly about it. But before we do that, we're going to run to a quick break

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and we'll be able to reference them and we'll ask Jay specific questions from the audience. So please, we'll be back in a second. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because testosterone is at an all-time low. I think that's a fact.

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couple interesting ones. I don't want to go too far on a tangent here, but just a couple of random little thoughts. Okay, we got to get back to the archaeological UFO sites. So we're going to touch on that. Do you have any thoughts on Operation High Jump? Oh, wow.

This is an interesting one. It's not necessarily related directly to graze necessarily, but is an interesting Admiral Bird That's right Yeah Gabe

Can you bring up Operation High Jump on the old Wikipedia Yeah Have you looked at this before? Yeah absolutely

That Admiral Bird Okay so he was He was kind of He was an old Rear Admiral In the U.S. Navy And he was

He was very much an explorer He was a hero at the time He was considered this To be this Wild World Explorer And he There was

there's an expedition down to at Antarctica and it's been long like kind of long rumored that back around August 1946 yeah to 1947 it was a large scale effort that apparently included like over 4,000 men and it's it says here on the Wikipedia page 70 ships and 33 aircraft this is not a small operation yeah wasn't like a little thing but there going down there to really explore and kind of like really kind of get a footprint on antarctic itself and there have been longstanding rumors that that they got um basically uh interacted with by uapes by craft by actual physical craft um that were apparently coming out of the water or coming out of the area around Antarctica and essentially swarming

the expedition and made them feel very unwelcome. And so the expedition Operation High Jump, like apparently ended quite early and was relatively unresolved. Like Admiral Bird didn't get done what he set out to do by going down there. And apparently it was because of these interaction with UAP. And where do these stories come from? I know that he has diaries and journals that I guess have been a bit disputed. That's right.

Yeah, and like it goes back to old lore from the late 40s and early 50s and then afterwards. Around that time, there was a lot of information that got fed to early UFO newsletters. There were kind of like early zines that people would subscribe to back in the day. There would be major stuff that would show up in newspapers and magazines of the time, like time or life. and stuff like that. And then there were small newsletters, basically zines, to folks in Gen X or older than what that term means even.

But before the Internet, you know, these kind of like self-published independent operations. And so there's like one organized by NICAP and APRO and others. And sometimes they would get fed information. And sometimes it would be associated with military figures of the day. Because those were, A lot of those people were kind of like the heroes, you know, that they would read about in the newspapers and stuff like that. And so it'd be like, oh, this guy went down and did this thing.

And so there's a lot of lore about like, did this actually happen? Because at the time, Admiral Bird was like this huge living legend of the military. Right. And, you know, as Word got around about this, it was afterward. But it was close enough that Admiral Bird's name still read. resonated in the minds of the audience, right? And so now, like, these days, like, maybe the only thing that anybody's ever heard about Admiral Bird is Operation High Jump, and it's associated with this idea that there could be,

like, a protected, essentially base, like, on or under or closely associated with Antarctica. And what do you make of it? What's your personal assessment? Do you look at this and say like, maybe, or are you like, hey, I'm coming up? I think that there's a lot of interesting stuff about Antarctica that's fascinating. There's been a lot of other stories associated with Antarctica where, you know, there's been other defense contractors that have explored the area. You know, that continues to this day. There have been longstanding rumors that there's a giant pyramid.

Yeah. Gabe, could you pull that up the giant snow pyramid? Pyramids in Antarctica? Yeah. Yeah. They're strange. You see the topographical view, and you're like, those lines are pretty straight. Yeah, it's true.

It's true. Pretty pyramidy. Yeah, there are a couple of them that it's just like, yeah, that one up in the top left, like, yeah, that looks pretty, uh, those look like pretty defined corners on that puppy. You know what I mean? And when you look at like old, it's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, mountain top, maybe, I don't know. I don't know.

But like I've been, you know, look at how, I mean, it looks almost like creases, you know. Like, I don't think that that's a legit pick. But like that, you know, heck. And the folks in home can see that, right? The audience can see it. And, I mean, I think an important thing to recognize is that we're still discovering stuff down in like Mexico. Oh, did you see the one that got discovered like a week ago? Yeah, with like LIDAR, like some kid found it.

Dude, how crazy. So can you pull this up? I forget exactly. There's a new, basically, like, civilization. and they were discovered in Central America. I believe they called it it starts with a V. it's like Victoria or something.

It was named after a lake that was nearby. Yeah, this one right here. Can you pop that open? Oh, Valeria. Yeah, this is only, this is like less than a month ago. And look, there's a pyramid right there and like PhD student finds... Dude, you do it.

This makes me so excited. The way he found it is so cool. Like, literally he was just going through LIDAR scans of the region. Yeah. He's a PhD student, I think, at Tulane. Yeah.

And he was looking at, looking at LIDAR scans from the region, just kind of in his free time, just kind of going through, perusing, and he noticed something on the LIDAR. And again, LIDAR is basically using, like, basically these frequencies to go and hit mass areas of land in order to get bounce back to then get detection of like geographical and topological things that are appearing on the surface of the Earth. So he's looking at it. He's like, oh, this seems interesting, these sort of scans that we're getting. This doesn't seem, you know, it seems strange. But he's kind of like, oh, there's no way I just discovered something significant. Right? Like there's there's people have been looking at this for years. Yeah, and then he takes it, I think, to his advisor and then they look at it and then they ultimately discover like a 1500 year old civilization that's been in Central America. That at one time housed like 600,000 people or something like that. It's insane. Crazy. And it just and it's just like it was just right there the whole time. Yeah. And it just got announced like last month at the end of last month. You know, less than a month ago. And it's like and so you know this stuff like there's still. I'm like, there's still.

a lot left to be discovered, like, on our own planet, like, clearly, and including, like, giant remnants of civilizations, pyramidal structures. And, like, you know, there's this idea that that we, there seems to be a lot of fear associated with us having, like, making a huge advance into, like, learning about our history or also, or that, like, our history is somehow cobbled together. and then it could be a little bit wrong. But it's like, of course it's going to be wrong. Of course there's going to be gaps. Like there's a whole generation,

like probably, you know, millennia where people were just illiterate and they couldn't record the history of what was happening, right? And then, you know, there's also situations like the fire at, you know, the library at Alexandria and stuff like this were just like what was like the repository

of like whole generations and civilizations like just went up in flames one of. night, you know, and like how much was lost then? And so then it's just like, okay, you know, that does look like a pyramid. Like, can we talk about the pyramid? Like, is anybody going to say anything about the pyramid? And they're like, shut the fuck up about the pyramid. And it's like, well, you know, we don't know how long, you know, there are, there, there are reports that would suggest that Antarctica, like, had a flash freeze situation where there are areas under the ice in the snow, like this isn't my forte

at all, but like, because I like anomalies and weird stuff, you know? Like, I can dip into it a little bit. That, like, there's been traces that it looks like there was actual like trees. Oh, yeah, I'm pretty sure. There's a lush jungle underneath the ice shelf

and it's, you know, miles deep. Yeah, but... It's there. Yeah, and ostensibly we could get to it if we had the time and energy. Yeah. And there's even pieces of Antarctica that are actually really interesting that are, like, grassy. Yeah.

Like Gabe, could you Google just like, you know, like grassy Antarctica? There's like these little pockets and obviously it's not a ton of it and it depends on the season. It's probably more of it happening every year at this point. Yeah, probably. But like you look at it and you're like, oh wow. Huh. Antarctica is it looks like Iceland or something. It's like, oh wow.

It looks beautiful. It looks gorgeous. And, you know, there's this idea that oh, nothing could have lived. But like look those pictures. Like there's clearly stuff living right there. Is it possible 20,000 years ago? There was a civilization? Yeah.

Yeah, somebody parked over there. And, you know, it also makes sense. There's been longstanding rumors about areas in, like, the South Pacific, you know, rumors and lore built around Operation High Jump. Even back to Donald Kehoe, we were talking about earlier, who was, like, an early disclosure advocate back in the early 50s, you know, and documented the beginnings of the cover up with the Air Force when they were initially, like, there's something here. They were actually, you know, there were people within the Air Force that initially. were excited about talking about this stuff and then the cover-up started happening.

But Kehoe was like, like, there's rumors that there's something on the moon, there might be a base on the moon, he was one of the first person to come out with that. But at the time, he was like one of the most credible people in the topic and he was one of the most plugged in with regard to military folks.

Do you have a take on the moon? There was a comment that someone had asked if I forget exactly what it was, but if you have any theory on the moon, is the moon stick out to you, something bizarre or anomalous or is it just a space rock that you know helps the tides i mean there there's a lot about it that you know people say like it's very statistically improbable that it would perfectly map against the sun with relation to us you know on our planet oh yeah that's like the solar

eclipse yeah that that that like one of the reasons why we were able to evolve as safely as we were because of you know uh the like tidal flow and like how much of that is regulated by the moon things like that I get that and I'm like well so maybe we are the anomaly you know we're the extension of that anomaly in the universe why it's so hard to find somebody else you know and at the same time like there are accounts that are really fishy about like not that you know the moon's fake or that's made of cheese or whatever artificial moon theory was what someone had asked yeah well you know one thing that is weird is that there are reports from NASA from landing on the moon and like essentially that it that's that the weight of the moon doesn't really make sense.

Like, it has, that there needs to be, like, hollow pockets within the moon for it to, for it to account for what's going on up there. Like, for example, there's an account of the moon ringing like a bell when it got landed on. And essentially, that, like, I don't know if it was seismography or something like this, that was, like, you know, that there's some resonance after a moon landing that the moon, that the moon rang like a bell. And like, I don't know, you know, I don't know exactly what that means,

but, like, you know, like, speculative cutaway. Like, I love how people will do a speculative cutaway, and then they'll be like, yeah, and then there's, like, maybe there's an elevator over here. And, like, I don't know, maybe there's a fake sun in the middle.

Like, that sounds fun. I mean, it does sound fun. Our Earth has hollow pockets. Right. Right. I mean, people talk about, like, the honeycomb Earth is, like, a thing that people talk about.

And there are. You know, and there's like, you know, people discover these crazy caves that are just filled with crystals or whatever, you know. Sinkholes in Florida. And your whole house might get swallowed up on a Tuesday. Exactly. And so, yeah, maybe there is some hollow pockets of the moon. And, like, there's definitely been some, like, strange film of, like, UAPs around the moon. And, like, along with Operation High Jump, there was a lot of talk that, you know, Apollo 11, Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, Michael Collins.

and Michael Collins, I think, was the third guy there. He always gets forgotten. He's staying on the craft, right? That's right. Yeah, so, yeah. Somebody has to firew us. You know what I mean? Like, it's like the designated driver of the moon.

Yeah, he just gets, like, lost to history. It's a bummer. Yeah, the DEED finishes last, bro. Yeah. That's how it goes. So, like, you know, they go up there, and then there's a news conference that happens when they come back down.

And like a lot of people, conspiracy theorists or whoever, like, look at that news conference that happened when they got back, and they're like, these guys' worlds got rocked. And like, they're clearly like holding back about something. And like, I don't know. There's also the element where they went to space. And they came, they went and landed on the moon. They just, you know, maybe felt like they barely made it back.

Yeah, I'll fly back from Cleveland. I look like a wreck. Yeah, I mean, I look like, I'm in trouble. I'll do like a three-hour layover and a red eye. Yeah. I'm just toast for like three or four days. I've cooked, bro. You see me after a flight.

It's like, oh, this guy's a tough shape. Yeah, absolutely. But then at the same time, you know, Buzz Aldrin developed a longstanding fascination with UAP issues and UFO issues. Really? Yeah, there's an old clip. Gabe might be able to find it of Buzz Aldrin on C-SPAN. And he's like, there's a moon. Yeah, monolith on Mars.

Yeah, can we play this clip? Is that going to be weird? I think C-SPAN should be fun. Yeah. Yeah, as long as the people at home can hear it Can you turn the audio up a little bit? Can we get a little more audio? Yeah.

There's a monolith on the moon of Mars? Like, what the hell is he talking about, right? What is he talking about? I mean, do we have imaging of that? There's not, I mean, I haven't seen great images of this, but, like, you know, this is fed into some of these, like, long-standing issues around this stuff, where it's like, what is he talking about?

And, like, you know, like, you've got a poster for 2001. And that's like essentially the plot line of 2001, Space Odyssey, right there, you know. But like, I don't know, maybe there's some fundamental truth to it. A monolith on the moon? I'm trying to think. Who put that there? Who put that there, he says, right? And how does he know about it?

He's seen it and it's a class pod? I'm not sure, but, you know, there's a long history of NASA people, astronauts and folks associated with NASA, leaving NASA and then having really interesting things to say about having, about having been up there. You know, there was, for example, Jacques Valet, who we were talking about earlier, he used to work for NASA. He was one of the original people that mapped Mars himself. Like, he was on a team of two people that I think it was actually an early, you know,

example of digital stitching the way that they actually did that, which at the time was revolutionary. You know, he left that to help create the internet. You know, Jacques Valet, you know, we. can talk about how he was like speculating about leprechauns fairies and grays but you know some people tend to forget that he helped create the damn internet and he also mapped mars like before that like the guy's a badass living legend yeah pretty bright guy yeah yeah and so when somebody like that he said that like like when he was even before that at the paris observatory that you know one of the big kind of like ontological

shocks for him like being like oh the world's different than i thought it was was recognizing that he heard stories and he saw evidence of cover-ups happening about reports and being like, oh, we're, you know, that data, that doesn't go over here. It goes over here. And Jacques being like, well, that's weird. Like, why are we, you know, this is, this is anomaly. Like, why can't we talk about this? And him recognizing that, that there was a formal policy of, of kind of ignoring anomalous reports. You know, and then eventually, after that, you know, he, ended up working for Project Blue Book under Heinek, you know, in the kind of medium term before he helped. He was literally on the internet portal, like computer number two on the internet.

Lonely place. I know. That's probably the only time the internet was pure. It was like the only time. I know. It's like. And there's two people. Yeah.

What are you wearing? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It immediately went to ASL. It was like, oh. We ruined it already. It's so fat.

Yeah. He's a beast, Jacques Ville. And his book is great. It's long, but it's great. Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting, though. And, like, he's so thorough.

You read it, and you're like, dude, this is insane. Absolutely. I wanted to ask also. He mentions it, actually, Gabe, can you bring up the cover of Jacques Follet's book, Passport to Megonia?

It's interesting, because the cover is very multi-layered. Yes. And there's an element in this cover that I want to ask you. Yeah. So if you see the cover, and ideally the people at home

can see this as well. It is, and this isn't even the full image. Right. The full image shows. Yeah, let them see that one for a second, right? Yeah. And then look up the anniversary edition. Just to add anniversary, I think, to that one, and you'll probably see it come right up.

Let's see. Oh, there it is. Kind of in the middle. You'll see that one with the arm. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. And so basically it shows a gray that's a puppet being controlled by some sort of mysterious arm. Right.

And then three different masks. One of them being like a fairy one of them being like an over type thing and then one of them being a demon That's right now the demon one is the one that always sticks out to me right? I grew up religious right? Oh yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, you know, so I've I've spoken to some people and I actually think Tucker Carlson even made a comment where he was like Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, these things are real yeah, and they're not good and they're demonic So what does your take about his comments? I think that's what he said I don't want to I don't want to miss quote him there, but that is I think the gist of what he said Yeah, yeah And I think that's fascinating And like what he was talking about

I didn't listen to the whole thing But I listened to an excerpt from From that It was just a few weeks ago He was interviewed I don't even I'm not even sure If it was on his show He was like outdoors or whatever

But like he... Yeah, there's two things There's the one where he says Oh these things are demons and they're scary And then there's the second thing where he says I was attacked by a demon Yes That's what you're getting at

Yeah yeah yeah And so he was talking about a situation That you know sounds Like he was like oh, he woke up at night and he had this feeling or sensation or view of like some demonic force or whatever. And he said that he like woke up, you know, the next morning he had like scratch marks, like weird scratch marks or something like that on his body. And people said like, oh, you know, he had a dog or this or the other thing. But, you know, he was rattled by the situation.

And it does kind of mirror closely, again, like abduction reports and situations where people wake up at night and there are odd beings around. And again, like you were talking about earlier, there's an issue of potential interdimensionality. You know, there's people talk a lot about sleep paralysis, right? But then at the same end, of course, people see these beings when they're driving down the highway, when they're doing all sorts of manner of things. But, you know, sleep paralysis is often used as an excuse or to kind of explain away these situations. But sleep paralysis is still a mysterious situation. And some of the side effects around sleep paralysis are people hearing a buzzing noise or feeling they're somehow like they're not just their body, but their like energy or like something within their body vibrating.

And interestingly, those are hallmarks of what out-of-body encounter witnesses report happening just before their consciousness or what they term is like their energy body or, you know, however you want to frame that. It like rolls out of its body and starts kind of exploring, right? And like, I don't have personally that much history with that, but like I hear a lot of accounts of out-of-body experiences. And there's a lot of overlap with, you know, not just other near-death experiences where people kind of leave their body and kind of go up towards a light or whatever, you know. But also with non-human entity encounters, specifically at night. And so there's kind of this gray area, no pun intended, where this confusion between like what's really going on here. And like, you know, when people have an out-of-body experience,

is there just something where their senses are getting temporarily like the horse blinders come down? And they're kind of like unbound, you know, with their perception. And then they're able to see like some of this overlapping realm. But then, like, there's other, there are situations, like, where it seems like these beings are able to, and people report beings that look like all of these situations, like demons, gargoyles, grays, in out-of-body states. Okay. Are they seeing that unseen realm that we were talking about earlier? Or, but then, like, how did the scratches happen? And, like, I wasn't there. I'm not, like, a forensic detective or anything like that.

But I have heard a lot of other situations where people's world were. rocked by like having an encounter at night was something that seemed to be messing with them. Have you heard of an encounter similar to Tucker's where, you know, the next day someone had like visible marks and scratches? I think you actually had mentioned that you had something. You had some type of like scratch or something. Yeah. There was, um, there was a situation when I was a kid like we talked about this. Like, you know, we, we talked a little bit about kind of an interaction that I had when I was a kid, which which is weirdly, you know, a common situation for some that I woke up one night and I was like

semi-reclined in a bed and I saw two grays past my bed. I was about 10 years old. It was a very, the whole interaction lasted maybe a minute and one of them seemed to be levitating and one of them kind of moved towards me. The one that was levitating, kind of raised this weird rod. And I passed out. And like, I don't know, like, before that, I didn't have any kind of, like,

knowledge of Delor of Grays. I hadn't seen close encounters of the third kind. Like, I didn't know about Willie Streber. Like, Woodley Streber, I'd only started publicizing his stuff, like, around that time. And I was a child.

And later, I came to understand I was I kind of like I didn't repress it but like it's not in memory that I love thinking about but later I recognize like oh shh like that no that really I remember that like very distinctly like and it was a waking memory and it really scared me and you know there are other situations like that like in my youth and even to early adulthood um where it wasn't like a regular thing it was super erratic but there are other situations and you ever have marks did you ever have like physical score?

Yeah, one of those times like there was like a strange like scoop mark what's often called a scoop mark where it seems like it seemed like

almost like someone took a tiny little ice cream scoop and like and like took like a little wedge out of out of like my leg and like just tiny tiny on my left leg

and um and it stung for like a really really long time like it would periodically sting like years later like I would feel like

a weird little sting Yeah, kind of like that In like that fourth picture Or something like that like that Like a little bit like that Hmm Yeah And like

You know And I associated it With like an experience That I had at night But like I recognize As an adult That like I never saw them

Do it I never saw the device That would have done it I don't know Why my brain I'm not even certain Like why my brain Was like

Oh that must have been correlating Do you know what I mean? Like it happened around the same time And I have no conscious memory of like having an injury right there that was so kind of precise And even now when I see stuff like that I'm like yeah, that's what it looked like But I don't know I don't know I don't know what to make of it

And so similarly with Tucker's situation, you know there are physical things that happen People will wake up with bruises And situations like that and you can say like well maybe they had fitful sleep and then you know but then there are cases where it's like they had identical bruising

that kind of looks like restraint situations I don't know what to you know and have you heard stories about this first hand yes really

involving those types of things like identical bruising that's right yeah on like legs and arms wow and I

and it's difficult to wrap one's mind around it partially because in situations like with Mario Woods who were talking about earlier, like people will report these situations where there's telepathic contact and this kind of like domain mastery

almost where these beings like they can like levitate seemingly levitate themselves their craft is floating like all of this seems weird to us people report levitation of themselves like as if the being is like moving them from one place to another

via some form of an energetic field or something that levitates the person. So it's like, okay, if they can do that, if they can levitate people at well, well, then why are there these weird restraint marks? You know what I mean? There's just these kind of gaps in our knowledge where it's like, like, would, if they have that level of mastery of like time and space or physicality or something like that, why would there be such like a blunt force kind of reflection of that later on? Right. But the reality is that like, I don't personally, and I don't know anyone that does, like, have enough of a kind of, like, mastery of what is going on there.

And I would suggest that anybody who does act like they know exactly what's going on, they're either kidding themselves or, you know, or worse. Because, like, I know a lot of the best minds in this field, and I know a lot of experiencers. and and we're all still working it out. Yeah. Yeah, it's just, I don't know. Even after our first conversation, I was like, look, I don't know because I've never seen anything, right? I've never experienced anything myself.

So, like, it's difficult for me to wrap my head around, but I one million percent believe that you're telling me the truth. I don't think you're lying. You know what I mean? You're saying, oh, I experienced these things. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah. And you have this group of thousands of other people who have also experienced things.

I don't think that can be discounted. And I think even the most, you know, like rationalist, skeptic, I think needs to look at this with, you know, genuine concern and say, like, you know, you described your experiences traumatically. You did not enjoy this. You know what I mean? This is an awful thing that happened. And whether it, like, was purely a fiction of your mind or whether was this thing interlaying interdimensionally coming into your consciousness or whether it was something that existed in the real, real world that, you know, came from. you know, a different planet. Yeah.

Whatever the thing is, I think it should be taken seriously and the people that are suffering from this or that are affected by it deserve to have some type of acknowledgement. It feels like there's like a gas lighting that happens where it's like, uh,

you didn't, nothing. It's like, well, look, I mean, even people that are like, you know,

schizophrenic, like we look into what their problem is. You know what I mean? Like, we don't just say like, ah, nah, it's nothing.

Like, so I don't know. I think there's a lot of skepticism that comes from certain groups that I think is kind of unwarranted. Like, I think listening to your story and other people's stories, I'm like, I don't know. I think this is a genuine thing that needs to be looked at. And if the outcome is, oh, there's, you know, an interdimensional force that's coming or, you know, something from a different planet, like, that's insane.

I appreciate you saying that also because, like, you know, last year when I came here the first time, like, you know, I came in and I was kind of booked under the idea that's like, oh, this guy knows about UFOs. And I don't think that you really recognize that, like, I'd had, like, an encounter more myself. Not at all. And I remember afterwards, like, you know, you're great in the room, but you seemed a little shook. But is that a fair assessment? Oh, yeah. I was just like, what the? I'd never spoken to anyone that this has happened to before.

Yeah. So I walked away from it being like, that is crazy. And, like, it was, like, it's not like you were making it up or, like, you were disaffected. You were explaining trauma to me. And I was like, this is, what happened to this guy? Yeah. It made me uncomfortable and has perpetually made me uncomfortable to this day. I mean, I think you were probably more uncomfortable than I was.

But it has absolutely has etched its way into my brain to be like, we got to figure this shit out. I appreciate that. And yeah, we do have to figure this stuff out. And it's like, you know, there's this kind of newfound reduced stigma where we're having hearings now. There was a hearing this week. There was a hearing last week. there's there's an increase in public awareness of these issues and there's kind of a there has been a bit of a normalization and destigmatization destigmatization you know and like that absolutely needs to continue and the part where you know there's a natural human impulse to

to kind of say like okay i'm okay with stuff up to this point and then after this point it's like i'm done it's almost like when if you're watching like somebody's watching a horror film or something like that it's like I'm okay with this I'm okay with that and it's like as soon as they get out the sawblades or whatever it's like I'm done I'm out you guys like I can't do this anymore yeah I think almost anybody that's watched a horror movie with someone else has probably experienced that moment at one point or another and like these encounters are a little bit like that where you know people get scared and it's understandable that because like partially because it seems unbelievable at first, and then when you recognize the numbers and that there might actually be something to it, then the closer that people walk you to the actual information, and like when you hear how strange these encounters can get,

then, like, you know, people, you know, like the hair raises on their arms, and then at some point it's like, no. And often it gets kind of like, even within the UFO community and enthusiasts of these topics, they'll say like there'll be these kind of public, semi-public debates about like, what can the public handle? And often it's like a projection where it's like, you know, I can't go into work and like talk about grays or beings. But I can talk about lights in the sky.

And like that's where the public, that's where the public discourse should be. Like we can get to this later. Like we can get to figuring out the deeper stuff later. And it just keeps pushing the ball further out. You know, and there's an impulse even among enthusiasts within the community to be like, they can't handle it. But what I hear is like, no, you can't handle it. Right. And it's like maybe like leaning into our fears, you know, just as humans and culture.

Like there's often a lot to be gained by being like, what am I afraid of? And being like, why am I afraid of it? And like leaning into that rather than going the other way. Yeah. No, I think you're right. I think going into the fear is oftentimes extremely fruitful and really, really helpful. And also, if, let's say we're accepting the fact, like, you know, the things that have happened to you and the people in your group are exactly as you described them. And they are from some type of, you know, I actually don't even necessarily know what you concluded to be, but some type of phenomena.

And the government has answers as to what it is. I think they kind of owe it to the people that it's happening to, to disclose the stuff. Like to me it's like saying like oh can can the American public handle Jeffrey Epstein and it's like yeah well maybe they can or can't but the victims of this guy I think deserve closure on the topic Absolutely I I'm looking for a message here while I'm talking to you about this I had I completely agree with you about closure and You know one one of one of the one of the members of my group is this guy named Jim and Jim died this summer. He died very suddenly. He was 42 years old. And he just died in his kitchen. He was fine. He had a great day with his wife, a few kids. And he just keeled over and died. It seemed to be like a massive seizure, maybe associated with a heart event. His parents

died relatively early. It could have just been, you know, like a question of genetics. But he had interactions with beings when he was younger. And like, he actually contributed some images. We have a bunch of great experienceer images, art, illustrations in our upcoming show that's from people that are just describing their experiences as closely as they can. And he was a great artist. And he's a sweetheart, really funny guy. and he only kind of was able to talk with his wife and other people in the family around him

like in the last couple years before he passed away suddenly. And, you know, when I think about how many generations before that and like how people to this day and even passed are still going to die, like never being able to feel like their accounts were validated and you know you can say like oh well you know what's the fundamental truth and like I don't know where these beings come from

I don't know you know what I mean Zeta reticuli another dimension you know under the sea I'm not sure yeah exactly but I do know that you know there are reports that go back millennia by like almost all world cultures like seeing stuff that's like

that's behaving in these ways right and a whole array of other ways that we haven't talked about today. But I got a message from his wife, and I haven't identified his last name. Like, you'll see a dedication card in our show. But, like, she said, I can't tell you how proud I am of him, you, the group. This is after he died, and she was sending out some messages to some folks. To think this was once something he'd only speak about to me very cautiously and privately, to standing confidently in his truth

and being so open about it in all aspects of his life. It makes me tear up when I think about it. I credit you in the group for facilitating his growth. I'll be eternally grateful. Anything you ever need regarding anything, please don't hesitate to ask. And she also said that through him being honest about that,

I don't want to read it directly. but like that it led to like the best years of their relationship and him being able to be honest about this stuff Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think that there's a lot of that, you know, and there could be a lot more and Yeah, I mean, there's there's probably a lot more of this than you or even I are aware of in terms of just the numbers of people that are having encounters and just experiences that don't really conform to what we feel that we're allowed to talk about at the grocery store. Yeah.

Or when we're even just hanging out with our close friends. Do you think Trump will move the ball forward in this regard? I, you know, I'm hopeful for any administration, you know, being able to get stuff out there. There's a lot of, there's a lot of question about, you know, I think that we see with his cabinet picks lately that it's safe to say that he's a wild card and he likes and that and that you know he's got some unpredictable situations out there but you know I brought up a list of you know some of his cabinet picks and like you know a lot of people Matt Gates has been a political football lately the attorney general pick a lot of people think he's not going to make it

he was in the grush hearing and he was asking great questions about I mean whatever to Matt Gates. Like, I'm not pro or anti-met Gates. Like, I'm not from Florida. Like, I don't, you know, whatever. But, like, he was asking some decent questions, some well-informed questions about UFOs

over military facilities. And, like, and at the time, in being there, I was like, huh, this guy gets a lot of crap, but that's a good question. You know, whatever. And he's in the list. You know, Marco Rubio is getting floated as Secretary of

state and Marco Rubio has been a huge disclosure advocate the last four or five years. Yeah, he's spoken out on the topic many times and like there has been an effort in the last two years in the defense and the kind of like defense funding bill that happens at the end of every year. There's been this measure called the UAP Disclosure Act that's gotten kind of fed in and like defeated the last two years. But it's a bipartisan amendment. essentially like a little chapter of the larger defense bill. And it's specifically about like disclosure of these topics and like being able to create kind of a panel so that people can like be appointed to like assess whether

things have been over classified and especially with historical documents that are I think it's 20 or 25 years or older that there's a presumption that it should be disclosed unless there's any, like, overwhelming reason not to. Things along these lines. And Marco Rubio's been a real proponent of that. You've just named Floridians so far. What's that? You've just named Floridians, I'm pretty sure.

Floridian. Yeah. Well, I mean, we need Cubans to disclose it. Thank God Marker Rubio's here. They love cigars so much. They're just going to look in the sky. Be like, that's a cigar, bro. I mean, I think that there's something to be said for, like, UFOs and Florida, man.

Yeah. I accept that. That's okay. Yeah, you know. It comes with a territory. It comes with a territory. But interesting. So yeah, there's a couple people that are, I guess, that could be, you know, picks for him that seem, uh, seem cozy with the idea of kind of getting stuff out there. Absolutely. Yeah. And so, you know, I, I'm hopeful, you know, not just with them, but there's some other wild cards that were in that house hearing last week. You know, Tim Burchett is, is, uh, you know, a very staunch Trump supporter and, and seems to have a good relationship with him.

Tim Burchett really led the grush hearing last year and has been a strong advocate. And I think just posted a letter up on X with him kind of encouraging Trump to do more transparency and disclosure efforts. And I expect to see more of that. Nancy Mace, another Trump supporter and advocate of disclosure efforts, they're a fair amount, Anna Polino Luna. And then it's important to recognize that this is. one of the few real bipartisan issues. Like AOC was in the Grush hearing asking great questions. Jamie Raskin, Jared Moskowitz, also from Florida.

That's correct. That's right. Jared Moskowitz, all Democrats that are, that really one of the few things where they'll reach across the aisle and work with people like Bridgett are on the topic of UAP, you know, and like UFO alien transparency and disclosure. You know? And so I'm hopeful that if people, Trump, or anyone around him, you know, they want to have a good day with the press.

Yeah. If they want to reach across the aisle, if they want to feel that Kumbaya moment, that they'll get there. And there seems to be a lot of lip service being paid these days to accountability, transparency, and things like that. So without getting into the weeds of the partisanship, Like I you know I like I'm crossing my fingers like I did for this administration

And like the last Trump administration we didn't get much from Trump last time But like it's important to recognize that in any of these kinds of situations they're up like The Congress people anybody and like you can be mad at the folks on Capitol Hill, but there is a longstanding Decades long you know cover up effort that you know a lot of times predated and these people being born. Right. And it's like getting presented with, you know, a 30 by 30 Rubik's Cube. And just being like, okay, you know, here you go.

Here's your disclosure. Now, it seems like things are trending in the right way, right? You got people that are kind of asking questions. Everyone's feeling excited. But then they debunk the Go Fast video. That's right. So what's up with that, right? Like Go Fast is this famous clip of, I forget which was the USS Roosevelt.

I believe it was the Roosevelt. And it was associate. That sounds right. Let's bring it up. Yeah, another great piece of reporting by Chris Sharp here in Liberation Times. So this week, just on Tuesday, so if I get some details a little scary, again, this is just like about 48 hours ago that this hearing happened. So Dr. John Kozlowski, he's the new appointed director for the All-Domain Anomily Resolution Office in Arrow. And it's a Department of Defense Office that's essentially like the new Project Blue Book, where they say that they're about UAP stuff, but actually they spend a lot more.

more of their money on things like optics and perception management than actual research. Okay. And so it's and it's closely associated with a a Department of Defense spokesperson named Susan Goh who her history and her field of study is literally psychological operations, sciops. Okay. So Kozlowski and Sue show up for this hearing in the Senate, the Senate, the Senate subcommittee, again on oversight, chaired by Kristen Gillibrand of New York, not from Florida, right here. And so she had Kozlowski show up, and Kozlowski and Errolski had published a thin report the day after, what amazing timing.

There's a big UAP hearing last week with Alzando and Galadette and Schellenberger and Michael gold and then the very next day Arrow who had been silent for months and months issued a new report amazing and then Kozlowski the new director gets brought in and he

he uses part of his time to kind of debunk and or as he likes to say it they resolved a few of these cases and one of them was the GoFAST video which is associated often with

with Ryan Graves who is a Navy pilot who was in the Grush hearing as well last year in 2023

and the it was in his he wasn't flying that day but it was his strike group that was that kind of taped the GoFass video and you know

here it is and you've a lot of the people that have seen this have probably seen this car that ski do or whatever that's

on that that snowmobile. It ads on ads. Yeah, ads on ads. But the GoFast video, Kozlowski brought it up and it was like, good news. We debunked the GoFast video. And this was one of the videos associated with that original December 2017 New York Times article where Lou Elzondo, Chris Mellon, and those cockpit videos.

It's like the main cover. It's like the... Yeah. Yeah. And so... And they were like, what this is is parallaxing. So the craft isn't as low as you think it. is.

What we think is that, yeah, it'll kind of box the target and see it's the line's moving fast, they're trying to track it, they're trying to box it in and then they eventually

they do. And then there's some audio and they're like, oh, whoa, you know, we don't hear it right now, but that's what's happening. And so

Koslowski, just two days ago, it was like, good news, we figured it out, it's parallaxing. So it's a phenomenon where it looks like

the craft is super low, but it's actually like, you know, maybe halfway between the pilot and the water, and so it looks like it's a lot faster than it actually is. And he was like, so good news, it's not a UAP.

There's still a lot of questions. Right. Right. And they were like, maybe it's a balloon. And it's like, uh, really? But the thing was is that they, Kozlowski, even in that moment was like, we talked to a few people that looked at the video,

this, that, and the other thing. And then Ryan Graves, was talking and Chris Sharp and others and you know and Graves said I spoke to the weapon systems officer who recorded the video a couple weeks ago and he confirmed no one from the Arrow office spoke to him and then Graves added

I think it's important to to raise the point that Arrow's lack of conversation with witnesses on videos they're attempting to resolve indicates they're simply finding technicalities to resolve video evidence versus looking for the truth. So they didn't actually go talk to any of the witnesses associated with the GoFast video. They didn't go to the pilots. They didn't, you know, there would be radar tracking. There would be other sensor data. And from what they said, they just went from image analysis. And, you know, like, that's not a great route to go by. And if they were really trying to, to, to,

get to the heart of something, you think that they might pick up the phone once or twice, right? Yeah, like, it seems like you're only getting a part of the truth. I think, like, tracking the image is probably essential. Sure, I think fundamentally need to do that. Yeah. But I think even taking the findings and then asking the pilots, like,

oh, was there anything else in the sky that day? Like, what is it possible as a balloon? Like, is it possible as parallaxing? Like, even asking them the questions to get their assessment because they actually saw it. Exactly. Not only do they track it on their actual, you know, surveillance, but they saw it with their eyes. Absolutely. And so it just seems like a question of even just basic due diligence.

Mm-hmm. Where it's like, okay, what do you guys have to be proud of if you're showing that you don't even, you can't even do what a local police officer would do if he was confronted with a piece of, you know what I mean? Like, you go take your notebook and you go knock on a door or two, you know? I mean, this is kind of a basic of detective work or any kind of case that you want to. resolve. You typically want to talk to the people involved with that situation. So you're not convinced by the debunking. I'm not convinced by the

Kozlowski. And in fact, they said that there were a few other cases that they thought were curious, but they didn't really produce any data about it. And that really falls into a pattern with arrow. And it's unfortunate.

It's really unfortunate because they've been playing this musical chairs with director. and then each time they get a new director, they've only been, the offices only existed since 2022. And they've had two directors and an interim director in that time.

And every time the chair switches over, people will say like, well, let's give the new guy some time. Let's give the new guy some time. It's like, they can ride this out forever. You know what I mean? It'd be like, okay, the last guy, there's a history here where those,

you know, the past two guys didn't really get anywhere. And they seemed more interested in debunking things than actually looking for anomalies. And they'll even say like, oh, yeah, there's some anomalous cases. However, over here, we debunked this stuff. And it's like, well, you only need one black swan

to have a reality where black swans exist. Right. Yeah. Yeah, you're not trying to prove all the videos correct. Right. Or wrong. You're not trying to prove any of the videos. Like, you just need one of them to be true.

Yeah. For now, the reality of these things to exist. Yeah. some point yeah yeah that's really interesting and just to end i promised someone in the comments i forget who um that we would we would revisit the archaeological retrieval site conversation oh yeah yeah yeah this is from i think an hour and a half ago but it is fascinating and like maybe the greatest thing ever it's just my it's so fun to think about so i'm curious if you have specific examples maybe things we can pull up obviously a lot of this is probably going to be you know classified

to difficult to actually access but i wonder if you've heard little murmurings or rumors amongst the people you talk to. Oh, there have been. I mean, one case, and, like, there's not, he won't say where it is. And, like, this is, like, an object of frustration for a lot of people in the field is that that Ross Colthard, who's a big journalist, he's with News Nation these days. He also has a contract with a station in Australia, I believe, still. He's an Australian journalist, really great guy, interesting guy,

and he really pushes the UAP ball forward in a lot of ways. And he went on record a while ago saying that he heard from several great sources that there is a U, there's a craft that's under a recognized, like, historical site, like, that people would know. That's like a known site. and that the craft is so big that it can't be moved. What? Right?

And people are like, well, if you know what it is, then you should say where it is because, boom, disclosure, there it is. And to a degree, like, I see that point. But then there's the other side where Ross Coltrard is like, I can't, you know, like, I can't burn my source. I'm like he has a high degree of confidence that a lot of this information is going to eventually come out he's a patient individual

is he more patient than I am probably you know but like that's curious and people have speculated it's like is it under the Vatican like what like where where could it be

is it under the pyramids and the reality is like I don't know and like a lot of this and there's just a lot of speculation out there And what is the thinking that this thing crashed and then it possessed some type of energy power or something and they built on top of it for some purpose? Maybe. You know, there's a lot of speculation.

And like it might not even be a side to the site itself. I mean, like it could just be under there. And then there could be, you know, it just happened to be a place where it became a pilgrimage site and then it became a religious side. Maybe they even forgot that the thing was buried there. And then it became, you know, associated with other things. as has often happened in the case of like religious sites and things like that. Right, there's like a pagan hill and then they build a church on top of it. Totally.

Situations like this. So, you know, maybe along those lines, right? Interesting. And how did he find this out? Like, he didn't disclose, like what his... You won't say who told them. It's more, right? Yeah, I know.

I mean, it's classic, right? Yeah. But like, along those lines, like, I mean, there's there are other rumors of archaeological sites. Again, in Antarctica. there's an old case that Linda Moulton Howe talked about for years. And she's quite old now. And, you know, I think that she did a lot of great research in the 90s on, like, crop circles. And, like, she was one of the early people to look into cattle mutilations.

And then she wrote these two books called Glimpses of the Realties, Volume 1 and Volume 2, that looked at abduction cases. and like odd morphologies of other types of beings. And some of that stuff like really kind of, you know, it only looks more true as the years go by and that she was just kind of early on a lot of these situations. And she also, a lot of people tried to feed her bad information. But she had some really interesting stories some years back

of a giant craft that had been found in Antarctica because of like glacier melt that this that um that a craft that was still fully intact or largely intact had kind of like risk like the ice receded and it kind of popped out and that it had been accessed and there were like accounts from mysterious whistleblowers that were like oh you know um we got to the door and it just and like it was a giant door but you could push it open with like one finger or something like this. There are all these stories about, and like, I don't know how true it is. You know what I mean? Like, I would, my gut instinct is like, it's probably not true because it's, it just sounds so fabulous. You know what I mean? And it's like, if that, it's like what you all want to be true. Exactly. Yeah. And so there's, like, if you go back,

there's even some like kind of like fanciful illustrations of like over on the left. You see, there's like these, kinds of illustrations that were done of like a wedge piece of the craft like kind of peeking up over the ice and things like this and like you know alien secrets beneath the ice yeah and and it is very sexy it's sexy you want you want a giant you know black obsidian like stop sign under the ice to be filled with like you know you know and you get you breach the cockpit or whatever Ace jewels or something. Absolutely. Absolutely.

But then, you know, there are cases that are more linked to objective reality, let's say, or, like, or people that have been associated with these retrieval programs. Earlier, we were talking about how James Lekatsky was the guy that originally, like, you recalled yourself, brought Lou in and was like, hey, like, do you want to work on this thing? And Likatsky has been very tight-lipped about retrieval programs. he actually wrote he co-wrote or is credited with co-writing a couple books that have kind of like a very controlled

approved by dopser a kind of like government agency that's a that looks through things and make sure you don't say anything that's too classified or whatever Lakatsky says that he would never he would never want to get called in front to testify in front of Congress like he has no interest

in doing that one of his closest associates Column Keller, another interesting guy, associated with Bigelow Aerospace, by the way, in the old Ossap program. He was the day-to-day manager of Ossap. They worked on a series of books and worked with George Knapp, the independent journalist, to really kind of try to acclimate some of the public to the reality of the UAPS situation. But people often point to Likatsky as being a true insider. And in the last book that came out, gosh, it was about a year ago this time, it was called Initial Revelations, as I recall. And they kind of buried it. They kind of threw it out there, did like one interview and then didn't want to say a damn thing about it.

But it seemingly, and I'm overcharacterizing it. They did a couple more than one interview. But Lakatsky, who's a very tight-lipped individual, he was like, oh, yeah, there's a craft that I'm aware of. and it took considerable effort, but we were able to breach the hall. He said this? Yeah. What?

Right. Breached the hole. That's right. Yeah, breach the hall was like the terminology there, the phraseology. And like I might have been, you know, we were able to bring, like the exact sentence I can't remember,

but breaching the hall was, with considerable effort, we were able to breach the hall was like the messaging there. Strange. Right? And so there have been a lot of, And this is a very scrupulous guy.

This is a guy that's like, I'm not saying anything I can't. Like, he's very, very by the book. Exactly. And even he said that. Yeah. Yeah. Even he said that. And this is a guy who's like very reticent to like, you know, this is, he doesn't, you know, nothing against James LaClazky.

I'm sure he's a great guy to go and have Thanksgiving with or whatever. But like he's very like taciturn, quiet, conservative when it comes to these topics, but also deeply, deeply enmeshed in them. Are we certain he was talking about UAP as it possible? Yes. It was talking about other military craft or anything? UAP. Interesting. Like retrieval of like a non, like not associated with our civilization.

Right? Very strange. It just makes you want to. Yeah. Again, I'm just like, I'm disturbed. I'm just back at square one. Like, what is going on? Exactly.

And that's the thing, you know, like, but we have to kind of back into these mysteries. and kind of soak in them. And then, you know, and then it makes sense that we have to come up for air and, like, you know, go about our lives and remember that we have fingers and toes and, you know, kids. You know, all, you know, go get the grocery.

Yeah, tend to the garden, you know, chop wood, carry water. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when we're ready, you know, maybe take a smoke break. And then come back to the aliens, come back to the UAP. So, so wild. I mean, speaking of which, we were just talking about Matt Gates. Looks like he's withdrawn his name from consideration as Trump's AG.

Oh, my gosh. Just while we've been sitting here. Yeah, like an hour ago. Look how fast history happens. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah, like 15 minutes ago. Is it because we talked about him? Maybe.

Maybe we might move the needle, too. Jesus. Yeah, we got to chill out. That's my bed. That's right. Last question I want to ask before we go. Sure. There's a random part about this whole phenomenon that I find so strange is this,

this idea of the Nordics. Yeah. So when I talked to Ian Doley, he had mentioned, like, one of his experiences, and I'm paraphrasing best I can, he says, I was in my room, I got this extreme feeling of energy.

He says he felt good. Like, he felt like he was excited and, like, was energized. And then he said that there was an overlay on his consciousness of these sort of, like, blonde-haired, tall, sort of, like,

thin, you know, faced Scandinavian looking folks wearing futuristic clothing. And he knew immediately, once he saw them, that he had to go outside because they were back. I don't know if they said anything to him or if he communicated anything with that sort of apparition, but then he goes outside and then sees a craft.

And I'm looking it up and he explained briefly like this idea of like, oh, the Norricks. People have described this in sort of UAPiology and this high strangeness sort of community. So my question is, is what are the Nordics and why do they exist and show up in this field? Fantastic question. Yeah, yeah.

It's great lore and there are some really tantalizing aspects of this. There are a lot of landing cases before we really got into kind of like the more contemporary landscape where people like really only wanted to hear about grays, you know, and that's partially due to the, you know, Stephen Spielberg being like too good at his job. you know, other folks like that, which is great. And, of course, the groundbreaking work of people like Whitley Streber, who's, in my estimation, a total hero for the genre, Bud Hopkins, John Mack, other people like that.

But before that, there were a lot of cases that involved, like, humanoids. And people would report, like, oh, it landed, like, it was a being that talked in my mind, but it just looked like a human, but, like, maybe taller than me. And really entrancing eyes, big eyes, and other descriptions. it'd be like, oh, they were blonde, or, oh, they were, like, really, like, weirdly, conventionally attractive in a strange way.

Okay? And it just sounds like, it sounds like horse shit. You know what I mean? It sounds like a story. It sounds like... It sounds like someone was horny, bro. Yeah. It sounds like, they're laying in their bed and they're like, dude, this Swedish model peer to my room.

It's like, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like, okay, man. Get a girl, dude. Exactly. Yeah, but then there are so many cases. And then some, from those early cases, people, they would get thrown out,

partially because of the kind of atmosphere of the day, which is just like, oh, you know, if you talk to somebody that was, you know, it's okay to talk about a UFO, but if you encountered somebody that was actually in a UFO, then you're crazy. Yeah. And there's still a little bit of that happening today.

But then, but like there was kind of an overcompensation where actually if you look at, if you look at reporting history, there are a lot of like cases of seeming humanoid. Like humanoid's not just like two arms and two legs grays, but like actual near humans or like maybe, you know, very closely genetically associated with us. And people have often termed them as the Nordics because they look Nordic. Like, or it's often reported that they do or that they appear in Nordic, right? And they seem to often use telepathy.

they seem to skew a little taller than we do like it's the average Nordic like male or female is north of six feet tall and often like well north of six feet tall penetrating eyes one of the only characteristics that seems different than us is that often kind of like wide set eyes

like almost almond shaped and like that this bone these bones right here like right next to our eyes seems to be set back almost so that like almost as if the whole orbital socket can be bigger to accommodate these like somewhat larger eyes. So it's it's a really there are accounts going back a long time that they're associated with like places like Mount Shasta, like a mountain in northern California that there's been a lot of lore built up partially from like some apparently like Native American stories like that that may account for. for like, you know, these blonde visitors coming in sky ships that are kind of like associated

with the mountain itself. An interesting situation here, though, is that going back to the fairy lore in fairy faith in the Celtic countries, which is what Jacques Valet references heavily, this book by Evans Wentz, that was published, I believe, in 1911, 1912, somewhere around there. They have, there's an old kind of fairy class that they call it. the gentry. And the gentry were tall, blonde beings that appeared almost as like, as if they were watchmen. And they were, the lore was that they were said to like live under mountains and hills in some other layer of reality somehow. And that the gentry would like, and they're not really

widely written about. Even within that marginal book, they don't, they don't come up very often, but they're there. And there are other accounts of the gentry as well. And Shockville-A mentions this as well. But, like, the gentry, there's a footnote in Evans Wince's book. And, like, there's an, and he mentions that he heard from somebody in California that there are similar reports from the Indian culture of gentry-like beings on the West Coast of America. And so, like, the thing was is that, like, Evans Wince was not a UFO guy. He was a folklorist.

He was writing before Roswell, anything like this. And if he was writing about any, anything about stories, if there's any stories about these gentry. And, like, there are even accounts about, oh, the gentry, they lived over under hills and mountains. And they even said that they would rotate between bases. Like, they used to talk to us. And they had this very fair voice. and sometimes they would seem aggressive, and sometimes they would seem standoffish,

and they were very elusive. You'd only see them every once in a while. But they would say that, like, there are other outposts and that they would get, and that they would be stationed there, and that they were, like, watchful, or that they were, like, guarding somehow. And that they were other, that they were, like, another race or another species.

Anonaki. They were basically ananaki. Yeah, but like I don't know. Again, it's like it gets back to this question. It's like, like people hadn't even until valet and then afterwards and still are not making those connections between these stories that people have been reporting within recent decades of what are called Nordics or that visit, you know, people. And then these historical cases that are from hundreds of years ago where people report similar situations of like. these weird tall beings that seem to have like secret underground outposts of some sort and I don't know about like the fundamental you know I don't exactly I don't know what that is I don't know where they're from I don't know who they are but there are a lot of reports and the and like I won't say the evidence but the anecdotal situation of the pervasiveness of it is fascinating and that like some of the tendencies from people that don't know other accounts,

again, there are, like, little details that seem to kind of resonate in terms of, like, how people are approached or, like, what's said, or, like, the affect of the beings, how they come across, what they're dressed like in situations like this. It's fascinating stuff. Or that, or, like, there's an old account, and I can't remember, like, I'm going to garble the details of this,

but like there are old, there's an old Native American account that, of like a Nordic being using a hand, like an element, a tool in a hand, to freeze, to freeze one of the Native Americans. And that like, that it seemed like the device could even give somebody

the sensation of burning. And like, and, you know, this was on like an old historical lore account. And then, you know, there are other accounts later of, you know, Nordics as beings that came out of craft, having some kind of hand tool that could, like, paralyze people or could even give people different sensations. Whether they be positive sensations, like the kind of like good vibes that Ian Doley felt before his situation or kind of more negative situations, especially if somebody was approaching one of them in a threatening way. apparently they don't take very kindly to them. Yeah, I can imagine.

Yeah, but again, like, yeah. So I don't know the fundamental reality of the Nordics, but like I've heard a lot of stories and I've heard a lot of accounts and like I'm going to keep listening to them. Yeah. I mean, yeah, fascinating. I don't feel like I'm any closer

to understanding exactly what's going on. Well, we're going to have to keep having conversations. Yeah, I guess we will. I still think about that story that she told us. The one off the air, too, that was crazy. Maybe one day you'll share that with us. But it's been, there's been an awesome convo. appreciate it. Where can the people find you? Where can they watch your stuff? You're working

with some awesome directors. I don't know if we can put that out there just yet, but there's a lot of stuff you're working on that's really cool. Yeah, if people want to see me lately, I was just on a, me and some other folks like Jacquesvillee who were talking about earlier, Gary Nolan, who we mentioned earlier, Kelly Chase, who came up in conversation. A bunch of other folks are on a new show called Beyond UFOs and the Unknown that just premiered on MGM Plus. If anybody has MGM Plus. You can also find it through Amazon Prime. I'm on episodes three and four of that. You can hear more there. But I have

a show that I directed and executive produced, along with my good friend Kelly Chase of the UFO Rabbit Hole podcast, our good friend Jordan Flowers, and some amazing, amazing collaborators with some of the best people in the field, including Diana Pesalka, who I talked about earlier, Whitley Streber is in it, a bunch of other great folks, called Cosmosis, UFOs and a new reality.

and we're waiting on a date that's going to be up on Apple TV and then after that it will show up on Prime and other streamers looks like at the end of December, right around the holidays. It might even be the week of New Year's Eve. So Cosmosis, UFOs, and a new reality, and then if you're an experiencer and you're looking for community, you're looking to compare notes with other experiencers, the vetted community private site that I found,

back in 2021. It's called the Experiencer Group. You can Google it up, the Experiencer Group, or you can look up TeGMembers.com and find out more about that. That's amazing. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you everyone for listening. Every person that wrote a comment, sorry, we couldn't get to everything, but I appreciate everyone that submitted questions. I'm loving doing these live streams, I'm going to be honest. This is very fun. So I think we're going to be doing another one next week, I think, on Monday. But just keep on a lookout. We'll be dropping more. Again, you guys keep on asking questions as we go

through the episodes and they'll definitely be brought up. There's been awesome, man. I really appreciate it. Thank you to the mods. Thank you to Christos and Gabe for producing and doing an awesome job. Absolutely. They're right through there. I'm looking at them. Let's do this again soon. Thank you so much, Jay. Absolutely. Thank you, Mark. Until next time. All right.