Camp Gagnon - UFO Lawyer REVEALS Deathbed Witness Bombshell—And Why Disclosure Stalled | Danny Sheehan

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

Danny Sheehan is a legendary constitutional attorney, public interest lawyer, author, educator, and activist and has been at the center of some of the most important legal battles, government disclosures, and paradigm-shifting conversations of the last five decades. From his work on the Pentagon Papers and Iran-Contra, to his groundbreaking involvement in UFO/UAP investigation and disclosure efforts, Danny is one of the most informed voices on these topics and today he's in the tent to discuss why government disclosure has stalled, encounters with non-human intelligence and what he believes about the existence of God. Welcome to Camp! 🏕️👕🧢 Use CHRISTMASCAMP at checkout for 17% off when you shop at https://camprd.com/collections/christmasShoutout to our sponsor: Morgan&Morgan and BlueChew 🎟️ 🎫 Comedy Tour Tickets Here: https://markgagnonlive.com🎩👽 Daily Dose Of History Here: https://www.dailytodayinhistory.com0:00 Stigmatization of UFO’s12:01 Priest’s UFO Photo 14:44 Defending John Mack’s Abduction Witnesses25:43 Graphic Witness Testimonies27:27 Deathbed Confession of Alien Interview34:31 Witnessing Project Blue Book UFO Images38:40 Danny Draws UFO Symbols45:14 Crash Retrieval Programs In Other Countries49:30 Reverse Engineered Craft + Nimitz UFO51:28 Physics Behind UFO’s53:48 Frequencies Shooting Down UFO’s56:08 First UFO Witness + Alien Technology1:02:36 How Crash Retrieval Works1:06:00 Telepathic Aspect of Craft1:09:51 Top Secret Security Clearance1:14:47 The Boxer Amendment1:19:10 Creation of Majestic 121:23:46 Operation Golden Lily1:42:54 Reason For Nondisclosure1:46:06 Fake Space Program1:47:40 NASA’s Occult Scientist + GATE Program1:56:33 Age of Universe + Advanced Alien Technology2:06:30 Are Aliens Advancing Humans?2:15:17 The Jesuit Church 2:27:39 Cuban Missile Crisis UFO Connection2:39:06 God’s Role In Human Nature2:52:33 The Garden of Eden’s Metaphor2:58:12 Aleister Crowley’s ‘Lam’ Sketch3:01:20 The Seth Tapes + Telepathic Communication3:04:42 Danny’s Meditation3:05:46 Check Out New Paradigm Institute

There was this direct program undertaken directed against the American people. It's a full-scale, demonstrated, documented, proven campaign. This is Danny Sheehan, and he's not just any attorney. He's a lawyer that's been involved in America's most high-profile cases, the Pentagon Papers, the Iran-Contra scandal, Watergate, and most recently, the UFO whistleblowers. He has literally battled the national security state for decades, and he's the man that insiders call when the truth gets too crazy. Danny has spent years inside the rooms that most Americans don't even know exist,

briefing military officials, advising UFO whistleblowers, and seeing evidence that the public still has never heard about. So do you believe that the government is in possession of recovered aircraft? Oh, I'm absolutely positive. I've seen photographs of them. And today, we're diving into the questions that everyone is asking, but only a few men can answer. Has the U.S. government recovered non-human aircraft? Who is actually controlling the UFO secrecy?

how deep does the government's misinformation campaign go? And why is UFO disclosure suddenly becoming bipartisan? If you think you know the UFO story, just wait, because Danny Sheehan is here to show us the version that never makes it to the press conferences. This episode is fascinating and has something for everyone. Danny is truly one of the sharpest minds in law, politics, and UFO disclosure, and today he's showing us everything he knows. So, sit back, relax, and welcome to Kim.

Danny Sheehan, thank you so much for joining me. Terrific. I'm very, very excited. I, uh, you are, I'm honored that you're in the tent today. Oh, you don't be honored. Okay, fine, I won't be. Yeah. Um, I, uh, you, I mean, you've had a fascinating career from, you know, such high profile

cases, the Pentagon papers work in Watergate and, uh, maybe more recently and, uh, more notably within the, you know, the internet space working on a lot of UAP and UFO cases. Yes. Um, oftentimes defending whistleblowers and people that are caught in the crossfire between, uh, you know, the big guys and the government and the people, trying to get information out. Yeah. So I'm really excited to talk about all of that as it relates to consciousness and spirituality

and going through all the different theories as to what exactly this phenomenon is. What are extraterrestrials? Do they exist in, you know, physical form? Do they exist in the, you know, the minds of the people who have seen them or do they not exist at all? And where is that information truly being held? Is that the list? Is that all? I mean, that is it.

It goes off in lots of subcategories. I can only imagine. I have a feeling we're going to get into it. There's probably many people listening that have some skepticism. And I can speak for myself that, you know, I see a ton of things coming out of the Pentagon and different papers being released as far as, you know, these UAPs and we're not sure exactly what they are. They go fast video. David Grush's, you know, disclosure as a whistleblower. And on the one hand, there's something happening that is very strange. And I've spoken with, you know, individual experiences that have, you know, had these profound experiences, whether they're being visited. And by some type of extraterrestrial, waking up with their sleep and seeing a Nordic-looking person speaking to them, telling them to be concerned about the environment, and nuclear war. But yet, there's still sort of this difficulty really putting your thumb on what is happening and what this experience is. And for me, I kind of exist in sort of this fluid state where I don't really know how to parse

all of this. So in your experience dealing with these people and being in, you know, these closed briefs where, you know, everyone is signed to an NDA except yourself. Right. What can you tell me about this phenomenon as far as extraterrestrials? What exactly are they, to your understanding? Do they exist? And what are the most compelling pieces of evidence that would make you believe your worldview?

Okay. Well, one of the first things we have to do is get past this effort on the part of the national security state to obfuscate what we're talking about, that they've changed the UFO issue. You know, you go to the average fifth grader and ask them to draw a UFO, and it'll draw it for you. You know, and you ask them to draw, you know, an alien, and they'll draw you one, you know, with the big eyes and the big head and all that. And but the national security state people now say, oh, no, let's let's not call them UFOs because that's got a stigma attached to it. Which we've now proven they're the ones created it. Right. You know, that we've gotten all the documents now that Richard Dolan in his two-volume work called UFOs in the National Security State has actually extracted.

through the Freedom of Information Act, lawsuits, the documents that show that there was a conscious program organized by the Central Intelligence Agency's Operations Directorate and the Pentagon to actually attack and savage anybody who tried to reveal the reality of the UFOs, okay, because they had, they'd attached themselves to keeping it secret because they wanted to back-engineer the technology to make a secret weapon system of it.

And so they convinced themselves, oh, look, we're the guardians of a new secret weapon system development program like the Manhattan Project, and you can't let anybody know about it. And so they've actually convinced themselves that they're authorized to use lethal force, if necessary, to silence anybody who's trying to reveal the secret. Okay. So they had this extremely sophisticated SIOPS operation going on to poison the well on the part of everybody. in the country against the reality of UFOs, to lead people to believe that anybody that believed that UFOs were real were mentally ill, literally mentally ill. They actually had a protocol in the military. Any officer who wanted to report an actual UFO encounter,

if they insisted upon filing an official encounter report in writing, that the first thing happened is they were required to take a psychiatric test. you know, it would go right into your record. That would make me be quiet. Yeah, well, it made all of them be quiet mostly, you know, and then if you still insist upon it and they make you go take the psychiatric test, then what they do is they deny you of your, you know, next promotion. They deny you, ultimately they take your security clearance away, you know,

then they'll take your pension away, you know, and they have this entire panoply of retaliations that they take, and so that they were suppressing the information. But equally importantly to all that is there was this direct program undertaken directed against the American people. And so that this kind of skeptical response that you have, when you hear about any of this information, you know, you sit there with a person who's a, you know, a 30-year police officer, you know, in your town who said, well, UFO landed in this field and I was called in. There they were, you know, and here's what they looked like. and, you know, I filed the report and so, and you go, oh, I don't know.

This is kind of hard to believe, you know, and what you're doing is you're responding to the programming that you've been subjected to by the national security state. It's a full-scale, demonstrated, documented, proven campaign that they mounted against the American people. And so people are very responsive to that now. myself personally, I started out, you know, just as a young kid, you know, up in northern New York, you know, that, you know, looking up when I was old enough to be outdoors at night, you can see the stars in the Milky Way, and you're going, holy macro, you know, when you realize that each one of these is a sun, you know, this is like our sun that's got like planets going around it. I mean, I was convinced that they all, they had planets going around them because

Because I knew what a solar system looked like, even when I was seven years old. You know? And so I said, oh, wow. Then that means that there's got to be, like, people on some of them, you know? And so just think, you pick one of these stars out at night and you just concentrate on it. You see it kind of pulsing there in the night, thinking about the planets going around it. There are someone standing on one of their planets looking up into their nighttime sky, seeing our star, wondering what it's like on our planet. And this was just absolutely fascinating to me.

And then I started finding out about all these weird things that we were doing to each other, you know, of drawing a line in the sand or in the dirt, saying if you step over on the side, I'm going to use my intellect to dig into the earth and pull out metals and melt them down and put them with gunpowder and shoot bullets into you and kill you, you know, for coming into my territory. And you're going, excuse me, you know, I said, look up. You know, look up and kind of keep a perspective on where we are here. you know, and so that all through my life, I was saying this, this is bizarre, how we're acting toward each other.

And I wanted to help get people to maintain kind of a larger perspective on where we were. So I said, okay, what I'll do is I'll become an astronomer and I'll figure out, you know, what all these stars are and where the right ones are, where they are and all that. Now, I realize that's an awful lot of math. You know, and I was good at math, but I didn't like it. So then I discovered that you could be an astronaut. You know, by the time I got 90 years old, it turns out that they founded the United States Air Force Academy. So I said, oh, good, I'll go to the Air Force Academy.

I'll just focus on this, figure out what the courses are I need to take and do all that. And so I ended up becoming one of the top three, at least, candidates for the U.S. Air Force for the state of New York, you know, back in 1963 when I graduated in high school. So I get to go talk to Jacob Javits, right? The Republican Senator. So I go down and come down to New York City, you know, go to his little office on Fifth Avenue. And I go in and he says, Danny, he said, why do you want to go to the Air Force Academy? I said, well, because, you know, I want to become an astronaut. And he goes, oh, yes, all young boys want to be an astronaut.

Now, you know, John Glenn went around. And I said, no, no, I've wanted to do this since I was like five years old. He said, well, why do you want to do that? I said, well, because I said, in our lifetimes, we're going to actually be encountering beings from an extraterrestrial star system, you know, and this is the most exciting thing that's going to be happening in my entire lifetime.

I really would like to be part of that, so I can go out and become part of getting to meet these other people. He said, do you actually believe that there's other beings on these other star systems? And I said, well, sure, I said, said, so much you, you're a United States senator. You know, you've got to know that. And he was so flummoxed.

I mean, he was completely astounded that I said that to him for some reason. He said, look, look, Dan, he said, I wasn't expecting this. He said, you know, you're from this little school way up in the boonies of New York. I wasn't expecting this kind of a conversation. So let me be candid with you. I said, look, I've already given the appointment to the son of my primary financial backer. says that's the way it is up here. He said, I'll give you the appointment to the Naval Academy, you know, and I said, I'm not into boats.

You know, I'm into airplanes. You know, I want to become a pilot. And it gets to be an astronaut. He says, no, no, he says, you can be a pilot in the Navy. I said, you know, but still all the boats and stuff. And I wanted, so he said, all right, well, look, you can just go take your appointment from the congressman. You know, there's 42 congressmen in New York. You know, you can get, who is your congressman?

I said, you know, it's, wherever it was. And he said, oh, I know him. He said, I'll call him. And so, so it turns out the congressman gives the appointment to the son of the Republican mayor of Glens Falls. Yep. You know, and I'm saying, wow, what is this? I said, you know, that, you know, I was like possibly even number one. I knew that I was the one of the top three guys.

You know, I said, you know, they give the appointment to the kid who's number seven in our congressional district. You know, I mean, this is not the way to pick the best people to go to the academy, you know, to do whatever it is we're supposed to be doing for the country. So I guess I better become a lawyer and figure out how the government is supposed to be working and make sure that it's working better. And I can help get the government back into tune and then I can go back into becoming an astronaut. And so I got out practicing in the world and ended up, you know, doing the Pentagon Papers case and, you know, the Watergate burglar and other kinds. And I realized that our country wasn't just a little bit out of tune. You know, it was playing a completely different song than we'd been told. You know, and there was this whole thing going on with our country,

that we were a national security state that had 800 military bases around the world, that we were, you know, invading other people's countries. We were assassinating the political officials of other countries because they wouldn't give our corporations access to their resources. You know, I mean, it was, I was flabbergasted. And so I just, as I got farther and farther into trying to fix this thing, I became closer and closer and closer to the core of what it is that's really going on, which has led me to the UFO issue.

Interesting. Because as it turns out, the UFO issue, is the deepest and the most closely guarded secret in the entire government of the United States. So do you believe that the government is in possession of recovery aircraft? No, I'm absolutely positively. I've seen photographs. of them. And where have you seen these photographs? In the classified portion of Project Blue Book. And so what can you tell me about this? Like what, what level of certainty do you have? What did it

look like? Well, it was, what I came upon where it was a classic UFO with the big dome on the top and the big, you know, must have been like 30 meters across, you know, and it has skidded across this big snow covered field. And it plowed this great big ditch through the, you know, it must have been like 30 meters across, you know, and it's skidded across this big ditched through the field. You can see the dirt. It was kicked up into the snow and it was stuck in this embankment, you know, sticking up at like a 45 degree angle. And I, you know, saw that there were multiple photographs of it. It was a retrieval. It was a crash retrieval. You could see U.S. Air Force personnel all around it, taking photographs of it and actually a movie camera they had going of it with the two little canisters on the top. So it was like, I don't know, late 50s or early 50s.

So I saw it, and I praised the symbols that were on the bottom of the dome of this UFO. And I brought him back to Jesuit headquarters. I was at a general counsel at the Jesuit headquarters at the time in their social ministry office. And I showed him to Father Bill Davis, my superior, and he just bent down and slid open the drawer of his desk and pulled out this little eight and a half by 11 manila envelope with a little clasp on it and handed it to me. And I unclasped it and pulled out this eight and a half by 11 black and white photograph of a UFO in flight, you know? And I said to Father Davis, I said, where did you get this?

And he said, my sister Doty gave it to me. And I said, well, where did Doty get it? She said, she got it from Mike, her husband, who's the chief air traffic controller in the Seattle airport. And I said, where'd Mike get it? He got it from his best friend who's a cargo pilot, flies cargo all around the northwest. He took this picture right out the window of his plane. He said, and he brought his little camera to the drugstore to get it developed. This is how you used to do it back then.

And when he realized what he had, a photograph of this UFO, he didn't want to get in trouble. He didn't want to lose his pilot license. So he took it and gave it to his best friend who was the head of the air traffic controllers at the Seattle Airport. And then Mike didn't want to get in trouble and lose his job. So he took it and gave it to his sister or his wife, Dode. He said, here, bring this and give it to your brother. He's a priest. And so that's how I got it.

And so I started getting those photographs. And I got retained by Dr. John Mack, who was the, at Harvard University, was the head of the Department of Clinical Psychiatry. He's the guy to whom they were sending these officers whenever they would insist upon filing a UFO claim. You know, and so he was having to be the one that administered the psychiatric test, the battery of psychiatric tests. And after he'd done a dozen of these, he was kind of thunderstruck. Say, wait a minute. These guys are all testing out as being within the normal parameters of psychiatric health.

And yet they've all got this story that they're telling about seeing these things. He said, this is astonishing. So he started looking into it. And he started, he was talking to his mother about it, actually. And his mother said, oh, you ought to be. you ought to talk to the Hopkins boy. You know, they were family friends. And Bud Hopkins was this guy down in New York City.

He was from a very wealthy family. And he was an artist, a sculptor and a painter. But he had this avocation of interviewing people who had had direct contact experiences, at least they thought. So he had gathered all of these interviews, which he tape recorded of all these different people. And so when John Mac called him, he got to hear some of these and meet some of these people.

So he ended up interviewing over 100 people. And he, you know, wrote a paper to submit to the New England Journal of Medicine, the number one peer-reviewed medical journal in the country. And John had written numerous articles before the scientific articles, right? And he sent it in, and they sent it right back to him. He said, you know, we're not going to print this. and he said, well, here, let me flesh it out a little bit more. I'll put him some more footnotes.

I put more examples in, and he sent it back in. And two days later, the executive secretary for Arnold Relman, who was the head of the, who was the editor-in-chief of the New England Journal of Medicine, sends it back to him, and she comes into his office and says, here, Dr. Relman wanted me to hand this to you personally and point out that it has not been opened. Wow. And making clear that we're not only not going to print this, we're not even going to open it. And so John, John was so offended that he contacted a publisher because he had won the Pulitzer Prize already.

He won the Pulitzer Prize for writing the definitive psychobiography of T.E. Lawrence, you know, Lawrence of Arabia. He's the one that wrote the major analysis of him. And so he got it published. And as soon as it got published, the dean of the medical school comes into his office and invites him to come to a meeting to talk about this book he just wrote. And so John says, oh, this is good. I'll get to come and meet with the dean and explain this all to him. And the dean said, why don't we just have some more people from the faculty come in? And we can talk to all of them.

And John said, oh, this is great. You know, I'm going to have like this little grand rounds here about the UFO thing. And he shows up and it's like a tribunal. You know, not like a tribunal that was a tribunal. Here they were, you know, arrayed up on this dyes, right? And you've got not only the dean of the medical school, but sitting right next to him, his legal counsel for Harvard University. Wow.

And Dr. John Relman, who was the head of the New England Journal of Medicine, who was a visiting scholar at the university, and then three or four other members of the faculty, and they just started to excoriate him, you know, about writing this book about these people that were thinking they were having this contact. He said, you were actually giving the impression that you believed them, you know, and John was trying to explain to them that, well, you know, it's absolutely real to them. Whatever is going on here. What I was doing is opening the question of what is this?

What's actually happening? He didn't make any conclusion in the paper that UIPs or UFOs are legitimate or that aliens have been here. He just said that these people were not clinically insolk. That's right. These people are not clinically mentally ill. And they're genuinely having this experience and it's very real to them. And it's extraordinarily puzzling. And what he began to do is when he was interviewing into these people, he would never hypnotize them.

So he couldn't be accused of kind of planting some ideas in them. He said, but what he did is he did this what they call holotropic breathwork. It's this deep breathing exercise that Stanislav Graf developed. He's a European psychiatrist. And it gets people into a very, very calm state so they can remember all kinds of details of things. And that's what he would do. And so he was trying to explain this. the board, and they were demanding that he bring in tape recordings of any of the interviews

that he had with these people and tell them whether he ever had charged them for us. Did he have them sign a paper, knowing he was using them as a part of an, they were just after him. And so he ended up calling his best friend, Ron Robertson, who was the, who had been his best man at his wedding and everything. and he was a professor at the Santa Barbara City College out in California. And Ron Robertson had come to a number of lectures that I had delivered, you know, at the university in Santa Barbara about the Karen Silkwood case that we did against nuclear power plants

or the Watergate burglary case that I did or the Iran-Contra case that I did, you know, against the Enterprise. I'd done a number of these cases. and Ron Robertson had come to know us. So Ron Robertson said to him, well, wait a second. He said, I've met this Danny Shee, and, you know, would you be interested in having him represent you in front of this committee? And John said, oh, I don't think he would be interested in doing something like this, you know. And so Ron Robertson called me up and asked me to come to dinner at his house. And so I went to dinner, and we got toward the dessert time at dinner.

And he said, yeah, he said, do you mind if I ask you a personal question? I said, no, you can ask me anything you want. He said, what do you think of this UFO issue? I said, I think it's the most important public policy question that there is in the whole world. He said, really? He said, how come you've never said anything about it? I said, well, you never ask me, you know? And so the bottom line is he had John Mack call me, and I wanted to represent John in front of the committee.

And one of the things that I got to do on behalf of John Mack was go around interviewing people to become witnesses for him that we were going to present the witnesses, you know, bring in police officers, bring in the head investigator for the federal aviation agency, bring in, you know, two star generals, you know, in the Air Force, you know, bring in the people that were at the Malmastrum rocket missile base where all the missiles were shut off by a UFO. I knew who these people were, right? And so I had interviewed all these, I got to interview all these people. And I got to interview like every, virtually every Illuminary, you know, in the field at the time. You know, Dr. Stanton Friedman, you know, Dr. Stephen Greer, David Jacobs, you know, all of them. So I got to know them, and I was preparing them to testify in front of this committee. and the legal counsel for Harvard University, I stood up in one of the meetings, I said,

excuse me, I said, I'm not exactly sure what this tribunal is exactly. I said, it's certainly not an AAUP convened panel from the Association of American University professors, you know, that is necessary if you're going to challenge the tenure of a tenured faculty member. I don't know what this is, actually. you know, and so,

Relman, Relman, who was, John Romman, who was actually chairing the committee to the Indian Journal of Medicine, said, well, what it was is, you know, Dr. Mack wrote this book, and when it hit the stands, a number of people started calling the dean here,

asking him questions about it, and he wasn't able to answer their questions. And so he thought, you know, why didn't he just have a conversation with John? And as long as he's going to be having a conversation, Why did I have some other members of the family? I mean, he's trying to come up with this kind of bullshit line. This is just a friendly conversation, you know,

after they'd already been excoriating him for doing this. And so I said, okay, I said, then in the spirit of fairness here, then who was it that called? And it was this big, dead silence kind of fell over the room for like about 20 seconds. And finally, the legal counsel shakes her head like this, noot. He said, I'm sorry. He said, we're not at liberty to discuss who called. And I said, okay, well, in the spirit of trying to be of assistance, if they were asking questions that he needed to get the answers to him, what were the questions that they were asking?

Big long pause, nothing. Shaking their head, no. And he said, I'm sorry, we're not at liberty to discuss that either. And so I said, well, look, let me ask you this. I said, whatever the nature this tribunal is. I said, is either one or both of the following fact questions going to be at issue here in the course of these hearings? Number one, whether extraterrestrial intelligence exists, and secondly, whether at least some of these sightings of these UFO vehicles might actually be a vehicle from an extraterrestrial civilization. And Rehman says, well, they absolutely are going to be relevant. He said, and it's completely ridiculous to think of either one of those things is true. He said, So, I mean, this is Harvard University, like in 1994.

And I was just kind of thunderstruck that they could be so completely abysmally ignorant, you know, in light of all that I knew about this. And so I went about, you know, gathering witnesses to start presenting to them. And John Mack's set up a thing called the Project for Extraordinary Experience Research, the peer group there in Cambridge. I became general counsel for them. So I got to interview people, tons of people, you know, who came in. you know, giving details of it. And we, and John started kind of like investigating, say, okay, now, okay, there you are in the room, you're on the table, you know, they're kind of examining, look around.

Now, tell me what you see. What do the instruments look like? And he started getting them to describe these little, you know, kind of non-conspicuous aspects of what they were experiencing so he could see how detailed the information was they knew. And then he would ask other people, and they were giving him almost kind of the same information, the kind of things they were seeing. Now, were these people that had seen UFOs? Or these people that were in the UFOs that had been abducted?

These were primarily people who had been abducted. We got way past the people who had seen them. So what do you make of the abductions? Do you believe that the people you spoke to were legitimately abducted, or do you think it was a phenomenon of their consciousness? No, that these people had scars on them where devices had been inserted in them, you know, that we actually had taken out.

And the devices were retrieved. Oh, yeah. They were electronic devices with little wires on them that were running right into their nerve endings. You know, that they're, these were, these are the real deal. And what happened with these cases and these devices? They were, they were taken in the, brought to laboratories and verified and stuff. So we've got a whole panoply of these things. The information has been made available to Congress, you know, that these are, that the, the, the evidence.

the evidence of the reality of the UFOs is absolutely overwhelming now. You know, there are videos of them. There are photographs that the F-18 super hernets pilots have taken right out the window of their airplanes, not just the gun cameras, you know, that can see these things, you know, four miles away. You know, they've got UFOs that are right up next to their craft, and they've taken the photographs of them with their own little cameras right out the window, you know. We've got Jay Stratton, who is the head of the Advanced Weapons Special Access Program in the United States Pentagon, has stated that he has been in the hangar with a verified non-human origin extraterrestrial spacecraft.

And he has seen the beings with his own eyes. They're alive? Yeah. They've captured live guys. And the U.S. government has live non-human entities? I interviewed a guy by the name of Oscar Wolf, his name was. He was a member of Project Blue Book, a special team that was investigating the unacknowledged sightings, that there were over 700 of these things, that they excluded from Blue Book that

were all in the classified portion of Blue Book that I saw, right? So I got to interview him, and he went into detail about being present for one of these interviews, you know, out at S-4. Were they able to speak with these entities? It's telepathic. It's all telepathic. And are they in custody of these entities? Well, it was interesting.

Oscar couldn't tell. He went with his commanding officer from Project Blue Book, this special unit of Project Blue Book, out to S-4. They went way down underground, and he wasn't even sure how many stories down they went. And they came into this place where they had actual UFOV. vehicles that were there hovering, just, you know, hovering. They're functional. Sitting in the air.

Yeah, right. They had them there at S4. And they go into this facility where the, where the E.T. guy was, and he was in this room, like about maybe 20 foot long, you know, and about 20 feet wide. And he was, you could see him through the window, this two-way mirror that they had, that was in the room. And you can look at and see him. They had him in this big blue jumpsuit.

They had him all dressed, and he was standing there in the room, and his commander went in and invited Oscar to come in with him. Oscar wouldn't go near him because he thought he was demonic. He said, Oscar was from this really fundamentalist Christian congregation, and he thought it was demonic. He didn't want to go near it. And so he could see his commander go into the room. You could see him standing right there, as close as you are to me here. and they were telepathically communicating. And Oscar was sitting there, and they showed in these boxes.

They had these boxes of eight and a half by four little cards, note cards. And they were from interviews that had been conducted with the ET guy. And the personnel were all there that were involved in doing this. And he was reading through them when he was waiting because he didn't want to go in to see the thing, see the guy. And so he said that like they were asking questions. And one of the questions they said, well, where are you, where are you from? Where are, what are you doing here? You know?

And he said that, well, I'm part of a group of different beings. They were from different star systems. And we're all involved in this program of going around here inside our galaxy, you know, checking on these different planets where life has evolved. And Earth is one of them. and so that we're just checking up and making reports on how the people are evolving. And the follow-up question was, well, who assigned you this? Who's coordinating this anyhow?

And he said, well, it's what you people would call God, but it's a lot different than you think it is. That's what he said. And Oscar would never tell him, but he told me on his deathbed. He called me, you know, one of those. homes where you're dying, you know, hospice home. And he called me from, he was in northern Minnesota, called me at my office, you know, and I flew out to see him. And went in and he's got all these tubes and things in him, and he's right at death's door.

And he said he didn't want to die without telling somebody about this, that he had seen this. And what was Oscar's role again? He was a clerk typist for Project Blue Book, that he was in, he was in the, he was in, he was that special unit that was assigned to investigate these 700 or so cases that they could not explain away. They couldn't come up with, you know, they were ball lightning or, you know, spotlights, you know, shining off the bottom of clouds or something. They couldn't come up with any even conceivable explanation because there were just too many witnesses or they had photos of them or there were, you know, there are reasons why they couldn't get rid of the case.

And so that he would be at the office, at this base that they had, and the, in the, in, Investigators would go out and interview all the people and come back and give them records and he would type them all up. And so he ended up staying there for a long time and got to be very close with the commander. And so that's how he got to be invited to come with him to go to S4 for this interview that he was going to do. And where is S4? It's in Nevada. Wow. It's in Nevada.

It's about 11 miles away from Area 51. And do you know what happened with this extraterrestrial or craft? I don't. I don't. Did Oscar disclose anything else? No, Oscar didn't know. Didn't know. All he knows is what he knew and what he saw.

And that's what he wanted to tell somebody before he died. So he knew that I've been at Jesuit headquarters, and he was getting set to die, and he needed to tell somebody. And what was Oscar's clearance? Like, did he have... He had above-top secret clearance because he had access. I mean, this secret is one of the... It is the most closely guarded secret in the American...

intelligence community. And why was Oscar so certain that this wasn't a foreign government's tech or some type of sci-op to... Because he could see the guy. He could see the UFO guy. He was staying it right there. And what year was this roughly? It must have, it must have been sometime before 1967 because that's when they disbanded the Blue Book. I see. Yeah. And is it possible, I always wonder with these things, is it possible this is a misinformation campaign to utilize people, to say that they saw things in order to divert attention. I mean, given the depths to which our national security state is willing to go to deceive people and to plant ideas in the minds of the American public and to conceal something, you know,

that you can't put anything past them. But when you're doing a professional investigation and stuff like I do, and I've been doing for 50 years, you know, that you lay out what the possibilities are, you start to attribute probability, projections to what the alternative explanations are. And in these particular cases, the possibilities of this being fabricated have gone down to almost zero now in light of all of the data and information that's available. You know, and I've been sitting talking like this to guys with the, there are 12 levels of security clearance is above top secret.

Now, Oscar himself said that he telepathically communicated with this. No, no, no, no, his commander was. I see. His commander went in and was having this, this, when he talked to the commander, the commander told him that he was, he could telepathically just communicate back and forth with this ET guy. Now, this crash retrieval that you saw, the photograph, do you know the story about where that came from or what that was? It was a bad part of my part. I was so kind of excited about the fact that I had found it, you know, that what I did is I went, because they told me I couldn't take any notes

and I couldn't take any recordings or anything. So they took my briefcase and stuff away, but I had a yellow pad with me. I happened to have a yellow pad under my arm, and I walked in. And so when I saw this, it was in these canisters, these little film microfiche canisters. And so I had this microfiche machine where I would put the microfiche in and I would crank it and see these. So when I was looking for the photos of these things, right? And there they were. And so when I saw them and I saw the symbols along the bottom of it, bottom of the dome,

I just focused the picture right down to fit the inside cardboard of the yellow pad that I had. And I traced exactly detailed what every one of these symbols were all the way around. bottom of the dome of this craft. And then I closed up the yellow pad and put it away. And I said, okay, that's it. I'm getting out of here. And I put it all back in and put it all away and just got up and walked out. And I walked out past the guards and picked up my briefcase and started going down the

hall. And one of the guards said, Shian, what is that you got there? And I said, oh, this is my briefcase. I just picked my briefcase up. No, no. He said, what's under your arm there? And so they came over kind of menaced over me. yanked the thing away from me and kind of flooded through all the yellow pages.

There wasn't anything in it. So he handed it back to me like that. And what were the symbols? They were here. You got a pencil? I'll show you. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I got to tell you a story.

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1 million point one, I can get a cool 100,000 out of that regardless. All I'm saying is if you're ever injured and you are looking to get the money that you deserved, the compensation that is entitled to from your injuries, Morgan and Morgan could be the way to go. Hiring the wrong law firm can be disastrous. I mean, you can be locked up in litigate. It's a nightmare. But hiring the right law firm could substantially increase your settlement. And with Morgan and Morgan, it's easy to get started. Their fee is $0 unless they win. That's right. Their fee is free unless they win your case. You don't pay zero, you pay zero cents unless they win your case. You can visit for the people.com slash gagnon, that is f-or-the-people.com slash gaggon. Or dial pound law that's pound 529 from your

cell phone. That's for the people.com slash gagnon. Or click the link in the description below. And so much to the good folks over at Morgan and Morgan for sponsoring this program and making this show possible with this paid advertisement. Well, let's get back to the show. Okay, here we go. So, so here's the, uh, here's the, uh, I'll do it right side up here. Here's, here's the field right here, right? And, uh, and you can see there's this big gouge right through the field where in the, in the dirt is all kicked up all around it like that because there's snow, all over the place, right? As if like a plane crashed or something.

Well, but it was interesting. It just plowed this big gouge through the field. You can see it. And there was this hill, this big embankment here. And the craft itself was stuck into the side of the embankment, sort of like this. It kind of skidded along here and then stuck into the snowbank like that. But it was dirt. You could tell it was an earthen bank there like that.

And it had this dome on it like this, had this dome on the top, right? And around the bottom, around the bottom of the dome here, you can see, like, right, and there were these guys around. There was a guy here and a guy here, and there was a guy over on this side. These two guys had cameras taking photographs of it. They were all dressed in like winter garb, Air Force garb, without a little furry around the hoods. And then this guy is the guy that had the thing with the two little canisters,

the movie canisters. taking a movie of this thing. And around the bottom, right along here, right along the bottom of the dome, there was this stuff. You can see it. And it was like this. And it went all around the bottom of the dome like that.

And it was just a whole bunch of variations on that kind of slant, whatever, to slash with these little things all around the sides, these little dots and dashes and little horseshoe-shaped guys. And so I just copied them all down just like that. And I said, okay, that's it. And are these images that you're showing me, is this exactly what there was,

or is this more or less what it looked at? Well, no, this is, it's not the right order. See, I don't, that we, I brought it back to Jesuit headquarters, that what I had, but the, they would look like this. And what I did is we put them into the files we had at the Jesuit headquarters. We took the files with us out to California when we did the Iran-Contra case, you know, against the enterprise and all that. And at the end, George Bush, Sr. pardoned all the main guys that we had gotten indicted. We got them indicted by the special prosecutor, Lawrence Walsh.

And then he pardoned them all. And then the judge in the case down in Florida was in the Southern District of Florida in Miami that we filed a federal criminal racketeering complaint against them, right? Because that's where they were shipping a lot of the things out from the Fort Lauderdale Hollywood Airport so that we'd have venue over them. And the judge, it turns out, was appointed by Richard Nixon at the recommendation of BB Robozo, who is a major mob bank owner along with. Meyer Lansky, they owned the Miami National Bank down there. That was where the skim from the casinos was kept and all that. Right. Anyway, and so Judge James Lawrence King entered an order excluding four different

eyewitnesses who had, it was a bombing. It was all about a bombing. But we identified the entire enterprise. We identified who the people were that were in it and what the aircrafts were, what the weapons were that they were smuggling and all that. We had them. And you brought this with you? Well, no, in that case, that we had the headquarters up in Washington, D.C.

But we were doing the case down in Florida. But what happened is when George Bush pardoned all of the defendants that we had filed the civil case against, the judge entered an order summarily dismissing the civil case, saying that since no one had been ultimately criminally convicted. What are we doing? Because they were pardoned. Right. That we must have been filing this for political purposes.

And we were a 501C3 tax-exempt foundation. And therefore, we'd violated our 501C3 tax-exempt charter that you couldn't engage in political activity because Bush was running for the presidency. So it's the time we filed the complaint when he was vice president. He later became a candidate for the presidency. And so what they did is Bush, when he got elected, directed the Internal Revenue Service guy to revoke our 501C3 tax-exempt charter. And so the judge summarily dismissed our case. Wow.

And then the Tom Spencer, who was the lawyer for Jack Singalab. Jack Singalab was the president of the World Anti-Communist League, the former NATO command. U.S. military commander in South Korea. Anyway, that he, his lawyer, Tom Spencer, filed a motion with Judge King asking to impound all of our documents at our headquarters so they could find out who the sources were that had provided this information to us. And so what we did is we packed up all of our, all of the files

in a big 18-wheel taractor trailer and took them to California. to Jackson Brown's ranch. In those files. That was here. And what we did is we put the files in a storage facility where they couldn't find them. And what happened is it had one of the big super rainstorms in California that wiped out this part of this storage facility. And they unilaterally threw out a shitload of the different things that had gotten wet.

And we got all of our files eventually out of there, but these were gone. And so we're a whole bunch of other ones that the people just threw out. So it's one of those things that kind of goes to glimmering into history, but that we got a look at it. So I just don't know what the order of all those symbols was. I see. So now how does this work, right? Like United States is not the, maybe in that time, even in that time, wasn't the only polar, you know, superpower in the world. If a aircraft from a different star system crashlands or is captured on our soil,

aren't other governments able to see what enters into, you know, this, you know, cosmic airspace? Are they not able to detect what's entering in? Do other countries not have crash retrievals like this? Well, it's varied. I mean, the levels of surveillance capacity have evolved over time, both with us and with Russia and China. And there's no doubt at all that Russia has at least one of these craft. You know, we have nine of them.

That Russia's got one. China has got one. At least nine or nine? Well, we know that we've got nine. I don't know how many more we might have, but I know that we've verified that we've got nine of them. And I've talked to the guys who know where they are, right? And we've been trying to get Congress, some members of Congress, to go to the place and see them.

But they won't do it because they don't have the adequate clearance to go do it. And then when they try to apply for the clearance, they won't give them the clearance. And Congress is just sitting there going, oh, well, you know, we don't have the clearance to get to go see these things. So we don't know whether they exist or whether they do or not. Now, what a country like India with their, you know. They're starting. They're on the brink of doing this kind of stuff now. We don't know.

We don't have any verification. We've got verification that both Russia and China have at least one. And why don't they disclose? I assume that they may be doing the same thing that we're doing, which is trying to reverse engineer the technology, so that they can generate an entire new weapon system. Our people are trying to master the propulsion system so that they can transport a nuclear payload

from launch in the U.S. into the heart of Russia or China within like two minutes. You know, to have a first strike weapon. And so no other country would say, oh, we have things coming into the earth, you know, like other, you know, I guess like, you know, space programs

in different countries that would say, hey, there's things entering into our solar system or into our atmosphere. Brazil has said it. France has said it. You know, there are several countries that have been very explicit. about the fact that they've got files on all these different landings and things like that.

Could you point me to one of those? Yeah, the Brazil, I think, is, there's a big report. You can just, like, you just Google the Brazilian report on UFOs. It's an official Brazilian Air Force account. Because I know they had the Virginia or Virginia incident that happened in Brazil. Yeah, that's a specific incident. But they've got, the Brazil, Brazil has done. a report.

The Virginia thing is the thing that James Fox did the documentary about and all that. But there's, but there's a, there's a, uh, they did it earlier, uh, about, uh, in France has done it too. France has, has released it. Uh, yeah, is there, there's a, uh, or basically the government is saying there's things entering into the earth's atmosphere that are not, they're not ours and they're not asteroids. They're, there's some kind of craft, uh, that we've spotted them.

They don't profess to have one in custody. That's what kind of set off the unique set off the program that the U.S. has, is that we've now got David Grush and others testifying that we've got them physically in custody. And we've got 40 witnesses now that have actually gone before the Senate Intelligence Committee under oath and had depositions taken, under oath, giving details of their own personal involvement in many of them of the 40. Some of them have secondhand information that have directed them toward the other witnesses, but they've got people directly that were involved in the back engineering program that have testified now. And do you think we've successfully reverse engineered these craft?

We can mimic some of their functions now that we've been able to construct craft that look virtually like, except the problem is ours have got like bolts in them, you know, in solder. and there's don't. Their crafts are all one piece. That's one of the ways you can tell. If you can get up close to one of these man-made objects, you can see that they've got rivets in them and stuff like that. That's how you can tell. But they can hover. You can see that they've gotten a grip on some of the kind of anti-gravity aspects of them. And some people, And some people suspect that they've gone even farther to the point of having some at least localized propulsion operation, where they can kind of go, like, you know, they can shoot, well, they've monitored them coming from 80,000 feet, which is technically outer space, down to the

surface of the ocean in seven-tenths of one second for over 80,000 feet. And they stop dead like that instantaneously, generating what they have. estimated to be 6,000 Gs, which would totally disintegrate any kind of material craft that we know of. And then they plunge under the ocean, like with no splash under the ocean, and travel at over 200 miles an hour. And where does that report come from? From the Nimitz. The Nimitz was on station down off Baja. There's a base, they believe, down there.

that they've, they've, radared, you know, at least 100 different times, a UFO craft coming right to that very exact longitude and latitude in plunging into the ocean right there. And then they've had summaries that monitor them. Now, it seems like these craft violate the laws of nature, that they are able to operate outside of what we understand, you know, the craft operating. They obviously don't violate the laws of nature.

They appear to violate the rules. as we presently understand them. But obviously it's scientific. I mean, there's some kind of, there's some dimensions to all of this that we haven't quite figured out yet, you know, that they can do things. Not only the speed,

but they've got this cloaking device that they do. They kind of materialize, you know, and dematerialize. They can do that. And it's not just apparently masking them, but that they actually materialize. And it appears to be having more to do with how they transport, how they go from point A to B, that it may not be a linear process, you know, no matter how fast it is, how fast beyond the speed of light they go. But it appears to be moving from point A to point A to point.

be like almost like astral travel. Mm-hmm. And that's how they, what they compare it to. Is it strange to you that they crash? Well, it's interesting that, uh, that the, the original, uh, the original, uh, recovery that went on at Roswell, uh, appears to be, was some kind of a function of, uh, either, because, you know, it was near the 50, 509 bomber group. It was the only place on the planet.

that had nuclear weapons. It's the place from which the Anola Gaye was launched. Oh, wow. They dropped the bombs on Hiroshima in Nagasaki. I didn't realize it. Yeah. See, it was the only place where atomic bombs existed on the planet right there. And it was surrounded by massive amount of radar around that place to protect it.

And it appears that they either ran into that kind of heavy radar system, but it was also, there was a huge electrical storm that night and lightning everywhere. And it's possible that got hit by lightning. But when they refer to the crashes, the, it's, they may not be crashes at all. I mean, the other, the later ones, because they were working like mad to develop some sort of a technology

by means of which they could interrupt their navigation capacity. And we've been working on it. And there's some kind of an electromagnetic field that were, able to project that forces them down to land. In fact, there's, in fact, the people that we were talking to that were talking about being involved in deploying this thing, one of the problems is that when you deploy this field that can neutralize their navigation capacity, it just keeps on going. And it'll knock down commercial planes if you do it. In what way? How does it, how does it work?

It apparently, like, blows out all of their electrical circuits. It's sort of like a pulse weapon, you know, just like you can knock out a small plane. They've got a weapon, a pulse weapon, that you can aim at a small piper cub or a beachcraft and zap it, and it'll fry all the wiring in the whole plane. And it'll just go in, you know. in this they've got some really super powerful mechanism of some sort that can deploy a field like that. But it has, in fact, according to one of the sources that we have on it,

is that it actually on more than one occasion has knocked down a private plane that they hadn't kind of taken into account because it kept on going. The effect kept on going. Knocked the plane down. And you've had to go recover that craft. and figure out how to handle the disappearance of that craft. Wow. So this was just a regular citizen on a private plane?

Yeah, just a private plane. Yeah. Was that private plane crash, was that politicized? Or was it a, was it a news story, or was it just a random person on a plane? No, it was just, no, it wasn't anything. It was, it was an effort to bring down a UFO, a targeted UFO, but the scatter from the event knocked that other plane down.

And this has been, I mean, people talk about this happening around the time of the invention of the new, weapon, the Manhattan Project, that many of these, many of these crafts start to all of a sudden appear. The first, the first one that we have a specific record of, it was with then-captain Philip Corso in 1945 in June, early June of 1945, that he was a range officer at White Sands, Yucca Flats, Alamagardo, Elimogordo. And he, they had this whole place.

because they were getting set to test the Trinity site. They were going to try to explode the first atomic bomb to show that it could be done. So they had all this radar, intense radar up everywhere. A lot of guys have suffered consequences of being exposed to all that. But he got ready to take a lunch break. He got one of the Jeeps and had his lunchpacked, and he drove away from the site and drove up to the little foothills. And he drove into this little kind of valley.

And here was a UFO sitting right there. and he was freaking out over it because the first time they'd ever seen one, this is 1945. This is before Don Quihull or any of those. Bannie and Barney Hill. Right? Yeah, way before it.

And so, but he saw it there, and he walked over toward it, and one of the beings came out, almost six feet tall, five and a half feet tall, arms, legs, big round head, you know, a thing, and telepathically communicated to him, he said, that said, look, our planes, our craft, something has gone wrong with our craft. We think it has something to do with what you got going on here electronically.

Could you please turn this off? Would you please turn this off and just let us leave? And, of course, so said he actually did do it. He said it was just one of those moments that he was kind of transported to this other kind of place. And he went and called up and ordered them to turn it off. for five minutes and several of them saw this thing just fly out of there like that. And now the reason that I credit this is because the way I found out about it is that Corso before he died did a eight and a half millimeter, an eight millimeter, a little home

movie for his grandchildren that he just right at the camera, just told them about this event that he experienced back in 1945. Did you see the video? Yeah, yeah. It was an 8mm movie, home movie. It wasn't even a video. It was pre-video. Does it exist publicly? Yeah, well, it doesn't exist publicly, but it exists. It exists. And how did you see it? That George Knapp showed it to me. That is bizarre. And I'm curious with something like this, I mean, around 45 is like one of these first credible sightings. It must have been going on for time before that that these beings were coming to Earth.

Well, I don't doubt that. I mean, I haven't gotten into all the ancient astronaut stuff. You know, I know that it's on television all the time, and they're into attributing the pyramids to them. Oh, that I haven't, that the concrete studies that I've done about it, the reason I know about the Corso's thing is because George showed it to me. You know, and I've met Powell Harris, who was very, very close to Corso. I've seen the notebooks that he had

that he actually wrote another book that was published in Italy, and all in Italian, where he talked about that. So I've confirmed it in his notes, and it goes with the 8mm film that I had seen earlier. So I credit that. And then, of course, in the book that he wrote

called The Day After Roswell, that he ascended to become, he was a captain back in, in 1945, he became a full colonel, and he was in charge of the United States Pentagon, a foreign, what they call it, foreign technology acquisition department. So it was his job, if they recovered any aircraft or any other foreign technology, it was his job to figure out what it was and how to develop it or use it. And he said that he was given the technology from the Roswell craft.

Hmm. He was very, I mean, you know, got a full bird colonel in the United States Army that's in charge of the thing, you know, writing a book saying that that's what he was in charge of, you know. And so that, you know, so why would he do that? I mean, you know, that's not a career builder. And, but because he had told his grandchildren in that 8mm, you could tell that he felt compelled, you know, as he got older and older to make sure that that was, there was a little bit. record of what he had seen. Wow. So he told about that. They got not only the silicon chip out of that crash. Which is the silicon chip that they've used to develop all the computers and stuff came out of the 1945 Roswell crash. That's what Corso says. And do you think there's

credibility to that idea? I find it hard to believe why the United States colonel in commanding the U.S. Pentagon or office would make that up, you know. It also had Kevlar. They started the Kevlar. It also had the, what do you call it, optics, what they call those? Like fiber optics? Fibre optics. The fiber optics were in that, and his job was to get this technology and filter it into certain private corporations to get them to, who develop it. And he says so. You know, you can get it.

It's called The Day After Roswell. It's the book he wrote about it. Wow. The Day After Roswell. Yeah. And also the night vision stuff. You know, you see all of our troops and stuff running around in Afghanistan and stuff, and they flip down the kind of binoculars that they flip down and can run around

in the night. He said that the night vision stuff, technology can be, yeah. Wow. The day after Roswell, there it is. I've never heard of this. That is fascinating. So how does this work on a broad scale, that you have this craft that is either, you know, forced to descend or crashes? Someone calls in and says, hey, there's been a crash of some kind.

U.S. there's a, there were special units. There was a special unit that handles this. They had a unit. I talked to one of the guys that was in it, was in the unit and interviewed him, Clifford Stone, his name was. Sergeant Clifford Stone. And how do they know where the crash is going to be and how do they get people there immediately? They have different units at different bases in different regions of the country and that they fly them in. They have almost like, you know, scramble jets, and they scramble them, and they fly right to the site.

And then they start ordering in the local, they have the authority to order in local equipment from the nearest military bases. You know, they roll them on in, cordoned off the whole area and declare it usually to be a biohazard. that's their that's their favorite so local police aren't involved well they get they can get local police enforcing the perimeters right they can say look we got a biohazard here you know we need you to block off highway two and in six you know and don't let any cars through here direct traffic out around here you know that there's a temporary period where we're going to be shut down and then they bring in the big heavy equipment uh to try to load these things up and they put on trucks presumably there's a they're great big gigantic trucks that they've got that they care

area of the money. I mean, the ones that they've recovered are basically 30, 40 feet wide, you know, most of these little craft. I mean, the big ones now, you know, they haven't recovered any of those. They've got, they've got videotape of one of these things that's bigger than two football fields. The videotip. Yeah. Yeah, just sliding, sliding right over the top of, what's the place in Texas, Stevens, Stevensville. I've heard of these types of crafts, these massive or like football field type things that moves pretty slowly. The big lights, there's three,

there's a big triangle shape thing. Nick Pope spoke to me about one of them. Yeah, yeah, there's Stevensville. Do they have the footage of this that's publicly available? Yeah, yeah, there's footage. There's footage of the Stevenville thing. Stevensville, Texas.

It's like the one in Phoenix. The Phoenix lights, that they could, that they, there are dozens and dozens of people that testify about having, having the Phoenix lights, one go right, over them right over the house and how it blocked out the entire stars above, you know, and it's a,

it's got a big bulb on top and one on the bottom. And then there's these three lights at each one at the corners of the triangular vehicle. And I mean, these are the size of a football field. And that they can, the term that they use is they move like sparks off a, grinder and that they're the size of a football field. And they can enter into our atmosphere and it's not globally detected. Our government must be aware

that these things are doing it. Oh, no, we can't show. They've got a thing called Golden Dome, not the one that Trump stuff. There's a thing, the code name is Golden Dome and that they can actually track them. They can pick them up pretty quickly when they start coming in.

And they can even see them when they're veiled. So then these blue teams come in and then they move these to, an undisclosed site where the nearest military bases. Usually the military base. They've got, they've got two of them at Wright-Patterson, Air Force Base. There's apparently one in a base in Missouri that they've got one. There's one outside of Maryland right now that we know where that one is. So they've got them. And that they've had an awful hard time. It's a very beginning, you know, I mean, I'm talking about in the 1950s and stuff when they, if they

ever got one of the, they couldn't figure out how to get into them. You know, I mean, if they found a completely intact craft, they couldn't figure out how to get into it. It didn't have any kind of apertures anywhere. And it took them a long time to figure out how to get into them. And they didn't know how to fly when they finally got into it. There wasn't any, there weren't any controls. And so, you know, there wasn't any control board or anything in them. And then they finally realized that they were pilot, they were navigated by telepathy.

The craft itself. And that the craft, the wiring inside the craft is not only the fiber optics, which are like flow right. into the metal. They're not like soldered in or anything. The fiber optics flow right into the metal of the craft. And they've got, the wiring is actually stem cells, like ET biological

stem cells that have generated dendrites and synapses, like in your brain, are inside the craft. So that the craft are semi-sentient. And they they direct the craft through telepathy. And where do these reports come from? Is this people that have spoken to or are these disclosed? No, no, it's not disclosed.

These are people that have done the back engineering on them. They're telling Congress about it. And you spoke with these people? I have. Under what context? In the context of people trying to persuade them to come forward publicly in them saying that, you've got to get me protection. Because, you know, I don't have adequate protection.

I'll get retaliated against if I go public with this. but they're willing to tell the staff and members of the Senate Intelligence Committee. And a lot of them haven't even been willing to talk to the House Oversight Committee because they view the House members as less kind of reliable. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because you need help pitching your tents. Yes, and that's what we do over here at camp. Maybe you're in line waiting for a concert somewhere and you just need something to lean on.

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That's like a coffee. Okay, so to skip your morning, cold brew, and instead get that hard brew for an entire month. Yes, that is at bluechew.com. Use the promo code gagdon and start laying it down like they deserve. Let's get back to the show. These types of sensitive issues, right? these types of, you know, crash retrievals and, like, deep, deeply classified, you know, operations that the government are doing.

Who has access? If Congress can't, you know, investigated, who can? They have different categories of clearance. So I say there's at least a dozen clearance levels above top secret. There are hundreds of people that have got top secret clearances that are all through the intelligence agencies and military services. but you start getting into these kind of programs and you start rising into these higher classifications. And then they have these programs, the ones that are kind of the equivalent of top secret are like they call special access programs.

They call them. Then there are unacknowledged special access programs. then there are exempt unacknowledged special access programs. And then there are black, black, unacknowledged, exempted special access programs. And each of these kind of correlates to a higher and higher level of clearance. And then there is a close to the top level of clearance, where in order to get the clearance,

you have to sign a non-disclosure agreement that authorizes your immediate execution if you violate it, that you can be gunned down on the street anywhere at any time. And that's confirmed, or this has been speculated? That's confirmed. Really? Yeah, it hasn't been acknowledged.

It hasn't been acknowledged, but I know that to be true. because I know people that have signed them. And inside of these documents, they say you will not disclose what you know, and if you do, you will be summarily executed. You agree to. You waive any kind of claim, any kind of claim of your relatives or family or anybody for any kind of cause of action that you were consenting to being gunned down at a moment's notice on the street anywhere if you do that.

What it is is an extension of the authorization of the use of lethal force. If you go to Area 51 or one of these other highly classified areas, you'll see these great big, huge signs, lethal force authorized. So that if you step onto that property, you can be shot and killed. With no recourse. With no recourse. And they've just extended that to believing that they're authorized to use that lethal force to protect those secrets that are normally in that physical area,

even though they're not in the physical area. You know about it, you can't reveal them. So does the president have access to this information? Not always? No. No. That's a question of discretion, whether they're provided the access. I'm sure that Clinton wasn't. I know he wasn't because he's, and Obama wasn't briefed in on it. Biden was not briefed in on it. Apparently Bush Sr. was briefed in on it. It appears that Dick Cheney was briefed in on it, but not the president.

Was Trump briefed in, to your knowledge? He's been briefed about the fact that we're in possession of non-human origin spacecraft. And he's been briefed in on the fact that we're in possession of the bodies of some of the occupants that have been tested and that they're non-human. He's been briefed in on that. And how do you know that he's been briefed in? Because I talked to the people that briefed him. And they came from these specialized operations. Now, why would they share this with you if they could be executed?

Because I'm the one that's drafting the statues to protect them. So you have to know the kind of things that they're afraid of in order to get them covered. Because if you don't cover them, they're assuming that it's waived, you know, and that it's not covered. So we have to be able to specify. the kind of threats that are exposed to and have Congress explicitly prohibit them.

And we have to have the authority to take depositions, involuntary depositions from people that are in possession of this information, compelling them to do it and have the power of contempt against them if they don't cough

the information up so that they can be subjected to imprisonment for refusing to answer. You know? And I mean, so you have to have to have lawyers that know enough to track them into their den, you know, on this stuff. So who are these people or sections of the United States government that are operating

without this presidential oversight? And how does that work? Oh, I mean, there are extraordinary levels of activity in the Pentagon that are functioning without congressional oversight. I mean, it's like it's a constitutional disgrace that But, you know, for example, when back in 1991, because we've been so deeply involved in the Iran-Contra thing, and we knew what they were doing and lying and carrying out, and we were asked at the Christic Institute by Senator Barbara Boxer from California to draft a statute which would prohibit the president and the Secretary of Defense and the head of the Central Intelligence Agency and others. from engaging in covert operations that entailed action that would be considered an act of war against any foreign power without the prior written express authorization of Congress. Right. That's the Boxer Amendment. And what happened is once it got into the House and Senate intelligence committees, and,

that were set up after the Church Committee hearings and the Armed Services Committee hearings, they amended the statute to say that the president was authorized to engage in covert operations, even if they entailed actions that might be considered an act of war, but that he had to report these to the Congress, to the Senate and House Intelligence Committee and Armed Services Committee, chairs within 60 days of their commencement. And if after that, if the Congress had within an additional 60 days following their notice had not provided written authorization for that to continue, they had to stop. I see. So you say to yourself, how'd that work out for us? Yeah.

You know, what kind of a real imprimatur did we impose upon the president? What really happened is it transmuted it into the first delegation of explicit authority from Congress, waving their Article 1 power to declare war, delegating it to the president under certain circumstances. Isn't that kind of what caused the Iran-Contra affair initially that we wanted to arm the Contras, but because of this, there was a statute that was put in place that we couldn't do that. Yeah. So we had to find a loophole. The bull of them. Well, we didn't have to find it. I mean, that's not constitutional.

That's like saying I had to find my way into the bank so I could rob it. Fair. You know, because they had a locked door on the thing. I mean, what do they think they're doing here? Putting myself in Reagan's position. Yeah, right. We had to do something to fund these Congress. Well, they didn't have to do it.

You know, the bottom line is they wanted to. Right. You know, and that's the reason Congress passed the statute because they knew they wanted to do it. Mm-hmm. You know, they knew that they had been supporting Samosa. and Samosa had been disappearing thousands of people, torturing them, killing them, assassinating them, you know, and had death squads that were trained by the Central Intelligence Agency at a place called the School of the Americas. We knew right exactly where it was. I see.

You know, and you have to just pound them into the floor to give all the information to the Congress. And once the Congress knows that you know, and they know that you're telling the public that you know, then they think they have to do something about it. Right. And so that the good guys try to draft up a statute to do something about it. And the other people inside, primarily in the Intelligence Committee and in the Armed Services Committee, transform that statute into authorizing them to do it. But now in this case, the president still is the one that sort of moving the ball forward. I'm curious.

No, no, he wasn't in that case. That, I mean, the fact is that it was being run by Poindexter. Poindexter was his national security advisor. And John Poindexter testified that he never told the president because he knew the president would agree. but he wanted to protect him so that he could deny any particular knowledge about it. I see. And that's how they did it.

So do you believe with the UFO issue, these sites like S4, that this is a similar kind of thing that goes on? No, I mean, the presidents know about S4 and they know about Area 51, but they believe the ones that are not briefed in on this, they believe that it's like, you know, developing the SR-71, you know, the Blackbird and supersonic planes,

you know, the F-22, you know, that they're cutting-edge kind of traditional weaponry that are being developed, particularly aircraft. You know, I mean, we've got, we've got aircraft that go like Mach 15. I mean, really weird aircraft. I mean, they look like, they look like one of these terrible cyber trucks that Elon Musk designed, you know, those terrible looking things. You know, we got, we got jets that look like that, you know, and they go mock-fif. Wow. These aren't like the, what kind of jets are these? These are disclosed or they're still technically classified? I've seen them. I don't know how many old people have seen. These aren't like the black sort of stealth bomber type. No, no, no. Those are SR 71. Those are the big

backwards and stuff like that. People, people have gotten, they fly them over football games now. Right. You know? But the other ones, they don't. But, you know, so there's all that whole world of stuff going on. And a lot of those, the presidents will say, well, I don't need to know, you know, what the latest, you know, version of our fighter jets are. You know, so it's okay if you don't brief me on that. I trust you, go ahead and do what you're going to do. But what these are things that are specifically concealed from the president because they view the presidents as part-time employees. Right. So this is kind of the deep state that people talk about.

That's right. This is the deep state. And who controls this permanent government? Well, in this particular case, in this particular case, there appears to have been a committee that was set up by President Truman back in the end of July of 1947 after the recovery of the Roswellcraft. And once they realized what they had here, he designated this group and he selected a group of 12 guys. Some were inside the government, somewhere from inside major corporations, et cetera. some were the big wealthy bankers that were influential in the political realm and assigned them their responsibility of keeping this secret.

And what was the name of this committee? They called it Magic, MJ12, the majestic group they called it. Now, there's lots of debates going on about these papers that have been discovered that were provided to Bob Wood and his son. But the fact is that people have seized upon one or two particular pages that have been salted into these things that have things in them that were fabricated. And so that they say,

ah, see, there's something that's not true. So therefore all these documents are completely untrue. But they found numerous documents that make reference to this MJ12 or the magic group they called him. And what happens is that those 12 people, each of them, was to hand-pick who his, successor was to be. As he got to the point of getting ready to die or retire or go away,

they would handpick their successor. So it's come down through the years as to who is in it now. You know, and we don't know right now who is in there now. And so that's part of what we're trying to find out is who are they? Because what kind of authority do they claim? Are they asserting that because Truman appointed somebody back in July of 1947? that those guys had the authority to appoint another one who had the authority to appoint you. You know, I mean, and then the present presidents don't know anything about it at all.

And they're receiving money from the defense budget. Well, what they're doing is they're embezzling money from the defense budget. What they're doing is they're having Congress appropriate billions of dollars for certain programs, and then they're embezzling it, and they're directing it off into these programs to do these super secret programs,

and it's all being covered by paperwork pretending is doing something else. And what disclosure is there on that topic of kind of these black sites pulling off these? There's a major investigation going on right now to track all of that. And this is an investigation that you're a part of? I'm not a liberty to talk about that. That's fair. So I'm curious, like, as far as how these things stay covert,

because you have these 12 people maybe, and maybe it's expanded. It's not really difficult. It's difficult to really understand how. these infrastructures work. Who would know about them? It seems like Congress doesn't really have the access. The president may or may not if he's interested, but he's probably being briefed by his, you know, immediate staff to say like, hey, we're developing weapons.

It's all good. Don't worry about it. Who would have some connection? They must have employees or they must have cleaners. They must have some level of, you know, interconnection with these other agencies. What does that look like? Those are the right questions, you know. But, for example, you know, in congressional hearings that I was in by the House Oversight Committee,

you know, members of Congress would say to, for example, Lou Elizando, was my client, would say, you know, who is it that ordered you not to tell us this? I'm not at liberty to disclose who that is, you know. And when you're not able to tell us who it is, you know, how can some people? somebody be telling you, you can't tell Congress, you know, and you're not going to tell us who it is, you know. So unless Congress is willing to hold him in contempt, for which he'd be perfectly willing just to go to jail, rather than get shot. Right. You know?

And so the national security state has set up a series of boundaries around themselves and protections around themselves to continue to function secretly. And they've not only embezzled this money, they have access to literally trillions of dollars, trillions of dollars, you know, in gold and stuff, that they've illegally shipped out of the Philippines that were recovered in troves that the Japanese buried in the Philippines at the, toward the end of World War II,

that they recovered 12 of these different tranches of gold, each one of which was worth over 100 billion, billion dollars at the time. That's gold at $32 an ounce, which is now like $1,400. But they've got, they've got 12 of those troves. What is that story? Well, that's a nervous story. What was the name of that operation to find the gold? It was, it was, it was, it was, it was called Operation Golden Lily that there was a unit of the Japanese military prior to World War II. going on from about 1932 all the way to 1943, okay, for like 10 years.

And there was a unit under General Yakoshima that was assigned to go all throughout Southeast Asia, robbing banks, taking their gold, you know, taking golden Buddhas out of the monasteries, you know, stealing people's diamonds and rubies and taking every single gold, silver, platinum, and precious jewels,

and that they had these big 50-gallon drums of diamonds and rubies and sapphires, et cetera, and that they had them in the Japanese islands as a war chest for their war, that they were getting ready to wage to keep the Western powers out of the Pacific. That was their region. The Pacific was to be governed by them.

by the Japanese Empire. And what happened is after the Battle of Midway in May of 1942, you know, where our sixth fleet basically destroyed the Japanese Navy, you know, so they were helpless. And so we could project power into the Pacific through our aircraft carriers. And when the Germans surrendered, the 5th Army of Germany surrendered in May of 1943, in front of the gates of Stalingrad, because they had frozen during the winter there, that we knew that we were going to win.

We crushed the Japanese Navy. We'd destroy the German Fifth Army. So it was just a matter of time. And then the Germans surrendered in May of 1945 in Germany. Japanese were still at war, and what they were doing is they decided they had to immediately shift all this gold and silver. out of Japan to get out of Japan because they were expecting a land invasion by the Western powers. And so what they were doing is they were secretly shipping it out in burying it in various troves in the Philippine Islands, 176 troves, each one having $100 billion in gold, bullion, in platinum, and, and, and, and,

and silver and these big 50-gallon drums of precious jewels. And this was recovered by the United States. No, they got 12 of them. They got 12 of them. But there's 176 of them, you know, and they got 12 of them. That Ed Lansdale, who was the G2, U.S. Army G2 in Manila, knew about the fact that they had done this, and he knew that General Yakashima is the one that had buried them

because he's the one that had been gathering them all together. this Golden Lily Battalion that he had. So he was the one assigned to bury them in the Philippine Islands. And what they did is they kept maps of the, where they buried them. And the emperor, Hirashito, sent his nephew, who was a Japanese prince with General Yakushima so he'd know where they were. And so he would have the maps of where they were all buried so that the emperor would know where the treasure was.

Well, it turns out that that nephew of Hiroshima, who was emperor, Herohito. Herahito, right. That prince was gay, and he had a gay valet who was a young 18-year-old Filipino guy who was his driver, and he would drive the prince around, and so that at Lansdale was smart enough to realize at the end of the war, that he couldn't get a hold of General Yakoshima.

So what he did is, he kidnapped his driver. And they found out about this prince that had these maps, and they found out that he had this gay ballet, and they started searching for him, but that they ended up finding through the driver of Yakushima. his physical driver, they tortured him, that Ed Lansdale had him tortured by this guy by the name Santa Marino. His name was a sergeant who tortured him until he coughed it up and they found 12 of these.

And they, when they punched the first one and found the $100 billion or that I've seen photos of it, it's like the length of, it's like size of a football stadium. And you can see, you know, gold bullion, you know, shoulder high stacked as far as as you can see, and that they, that Ed Lansdale flew to, from Manila to Singapore to see General Douglas MacArthur, who was the commander of the Pacific forces at the time. And this is in December of 1945, right? And he started briefing General MacArthur about it. MacArthur said, hold it, I'm going to bring in my G2.

He brings in, uh, uh, I was named Charles Willoughby. His name was. Charles Willoughby, who was his G2, right? Uh, it comes in and, and so, uh, Ed Lansdale briefs him on the whole thing. McCarthy, MacArthur says, okay, I'm going to have Willoughby and you fly in my private plane back to Manila, back to the Hawaii, back into the states and go see the president. And you're going to tell President Truman. that we have found these 12 troves of gold in silver and platinum and jewels.

So he flew him back, and they come back into Washington and started trying to get a meeting with Truman, and his chief of staff wouldn't let him let them see him unless they briefed the chief of staff as to what it was about. And so they briefed him on it, and that was Clark Clifford. These are names like boomers would like jump out of their seat when they, what? Clark Clifford, yeah, well, that's Clark Clifford.

That's who he was. It went on to become the head of the United States Treasury Department. So he came in and they started briefing President Truman about this, and Truman said, hold it, you know, I need to bring in Stimson. And he brings in Stimson, who was the Secretary of War, brings him into the meeting. Stimson brings in his three deputies, Robert Lovett, Robert B. Anderson, and John J. McCloy. He brings them into the meeting.

They brief them about what they've got. And Truman says, we're not telling anybody about this. We're going to set up a private trust and put these 12 troves of gold in. We're going to fly it out with U.S. military craft. We're going to put them in the bank, the International Bank of Credit in Geneva, Switzerland. And we're going to write gold certificates on it and use the gold certificate. It says bearer bonds, and we can finance the campaigns of former Nazis, actually, all through Europe so that we can keep the partisans from being elected into these offices in Europe, because we cannot allow the range of government of any country in Europe to fall into the control of the socialists or communists, even if it is the will of the majority of their own people. That's the Truman Doctrine, 1948, taught by Henry Kissinger and Gov 182 at Harvard College.

You know, that's a fact, all right? And so that's what they did. So they moved all that gold to the bank, and they've had that access to those covert funds, which they've been using, you know, to fund covert operations all around the world. Then they had the Congress pass. It was at the behest of Robert Lovett, who was one of the trustees. They made them the trustees. Robert Lovett and Robert B. Anderson and John J. McCloy were made the trustees of this private trust called the Anderson Trust.

Okay? And they are the ones that manage that money. Robert Lovett and John Robert Anderson are both senior partners in Brown Brothers Haremont. Brown Brothers Haremont was a huge private investment group based in New York that was made up of almost all the Robert barren families that were private investors in Brown Brothers Harriman in the investment group. The CEO of that group was George Herbert Walker, okay, the grandfather of George Herbert Walker Bush. His son-in-law was Prescott Bush, okay? And the legal counsel for Brown Brothers Harriman was Alan Dulles, who was made the first

civilian head of the Central Intelligence Agency. And it was Robert Lovett that wrote the memo to Truman suggesting they create the central intelligence agency who could engage in covert operations to do all these things that they wanted to do to basically crush any kind of socialist movements in Europe. And it was funded by these troves. Yeah. I mean, what happened to the other 64 sites? 100. 176 troves there were. But that's how many of the word were you recovered 12.

That's right. What happened to others? Marcos recovered two of them later. Marcos, Fernando Marcos, he got two of them. He's a Filipino guy? He was the Philippine president. And one of them was discovered by Senator Pimentel, who was the majority leader president of the Senate of the Philippines.

He and a man by Mr. Ayala, who was the third richest man in the Philippines, they punched one of the sites they found it and got a $100 billion. Are all the sites accounted for? No, none of them. So where are they? In the Philippines. And why is this not a massive war that's being undertaken to extract them? There's been all kinds of stuff going on.

I can close doors to try to find them, you know. Lots of folks. That is crazy. Does that contribute to the current state of Filipino politics, as we know it today? Really? No. That's, that Pimentel just stole it. He stole the one thing that they found. He and Mr. I had conversation, I sat and talked to him just like this at his desk in the Senate in the Philippines. He wanted me as legal counsel of the Jesuit headquarters in the social ministry office to get permission from Cardinal Sin. That was his name, S-I-G-H-N. Cardinal Sin was the primate of the Catholic Church in the Philippines. and wanted me to get Cardinal Sin to sign a letter blessing him and Mr. Aaya to be able to take the $100 billion trove and lift it out of the Philippines and keep it for themselves. He offered to give us $10 billion if we would agree to do that.

He gave us 10% of the trove. And I said, no, we're not going to do that. But he was able to retain it anyway. Yeah, he did, and he lifted it out of there and took it. Was there any recourse room for taking this trove? I mean, this is, are there still operations today to try to identify these sites? A lot of people killed, a lot of people killed over it. People go crazy over that stuff.

You know, that really, I mean, literally psychotic people, you know, going crazy looking for those troves. I mean, I'm sure many foreign governments are trying to get their hands on it. Yeah. And that's going on to this day. Yeah. The United States included, I'm sure. Covert operations. primarily.

And do you know if any of been successful since? No, they've not been. They've not been. They've not been. Is it possible they don't exist? Nope. Not possible at all. Hmm.

That is just bizarre. And it's these funds that are partially funding these black sites that control a lot of these UFOs and UIPs. Well, we don't know about that. We don't know yet the linkage of utilizing those, 12 troves that they punched, that they're in the bank, international credit bank. We don't know yet that they're being used to fund this.

It's perfectly logical to think they would be since there's such huge money now. Since the gold has gone up to like $1,400, you can find out what it is today. Christoph, you can find out what is the price of gold today? But it was at $32 an ounce. It was worth $100 billion. Wow, okay. Wow. $3,6.6. Yeah, it's about $3,700 an ounce.

$3,700 an ounce. So it's 10 times, or no, more than that. Yeah, more than 10. But 100 times, a thousand times. Wow. It was $32 an ounce. It's a thousand times, a thousand times what it was worth then. I mean, that is just unbelievable.

I can't believe I've never heard of this. Wow, that is remarkable. Yeah. So that, I happened to have been privy to that because the Jesuit headquarters, I was called in to brief Mr. I on the consequences of global climate change for the Philippines, the rising ocean levels. And he asked me to fly in to brief the top 50 businessmen in the Philippines on behalf of the Jesuit order about what the consequences of global climate change were going to be for not only the Philippines,

but for the entire American Association of Island States. in the United Nations. And we were trying to persuade them to mount an action in the General Assembly under the Uniting for Peace Resolution of the Charter to impose mandates on the United States and China, in Russia, and India,

to stop global climate change because it was destroying the sovereignty of these island states. Wow. You know, and that's how I was brought in to do it. And that was why they asked me to come to the meeting with them.

And then all of a sudden spraying this offer on us saying, look, let me tell you what we got here. And so I just said, no, we're not going to do that. And why did they want the church to condone it? They wanted cover. They wanted cover in case they got caught. They could flash the letter from Cardinal Sin saying that he had blessed this, and the church has been blessing it.

Does the church retain that much power in the Philippines to this day? They're pretty Catholic. It's pretty intense. Yeah, it's pretty intense. That a letter would be worth $10 billion. Yeah. This was back in 19, this was in 2001 that I had these meetings with them. So I was 24 years ago.

Right. And it's wild to me that the church still would retain that much power, that they would be willing to spend $10 billion just to get the church's approval. Wow. Yeah. Did it ever get to Cardinal Senate that this is what they wanted? Did you ever? I never even told him.

I never even talked to him about it. Wow. I wouldn't participate in something like that. The Jesuits wouldn't do that. On a moral basis? Legal, moral, you know, practical. Right. Yeah.

Wow. Wouldn't do that. I told them, I said, you know, that some of that gold, you can tell exactly where it comes from, you know, you know where the Buddha comes from. They knew exactly where it was. You know, they knew where the ingots came from. You know, they took all, Japanese took all

the gold out of the Bank of England in Singapore. And the Japanese came in. And they raided the whole bank and took all the gold. It's all, all UK gold. Wow. You know, so I said, you have to return that to the people that have it, they own it. You know, and they just looked at me like, you know, what is this guy? Wow.

So you have these sites that have these craft that Congress can't get into. they're being funded potentially by, you know, these sort of black budget covert troves or these accounts, you know, now. And money embezzled from other programs that has been appropriated by Congress for other programs and then is abeseled and sent into these other programs. And they manufacture completely fake papers and records of how it's been spent. And, you know, they just, everybody winks and nods at it. And the reason for not disclosing is primarily for this desire to reverse engineer. Is there another reason they would not want to disclose? Yeah, and the private aerospace corporations that are partners with them that want to have patents on it.

And they want to be able to own it. So the corporations, the corporations have a hand in this as well. Absolutely do. Similar to the Roswell situation you mentioned before, that they personally benefit greatly from access to this technology. Absolutely do. And if they could get the patents on them, then they would for the next thousand years, license this technology to the United States. Every time they wanted to build one of these craft to go to another star system, you'd have to license it from, you know, the company, the corporation that would own them.

Are these companies like Boeing or Northrop Grumman, these Lockheed? Lockheed Martin is one of the big ones. Interesting. So, you know, and that's what they want. They want to get patents and they want to have licensing authority and they want to own. own the technology. So the high brass at Lockheed Martin would have access to these sites?

Some of them do. Some of them do. I mean, others that they have some of the technology placed in their custody to research it and figure out what to do with it, but they don't necessarily know where the craft is. Everybody doesn't need to know that. It's very much need to know. Right.

What's up, beautiful people of America? I am on the road. That's right. I'm doing my hour of stand-up comedy in many cities. some of which are near you. Going to Fort Wayne, Indiana, and Chicago, you can get tickets at my website,

www.w.m., mark agnonlive.com. We also got the link in the description. I would love for you guys to come on out. I say what's up to everybody after the show if you want to come hang, have some laughs, grab a pick with me, shake my hand and tell me some crazy story.

I would love to see you guys there. Can't wait. Let's get back to the show. And I wonder about, like, the sensitivity around these crafts. Like, you know, I was mentioning before, like cleaners or, you know, the security guy or the, you know, the lunch lady. Like, are there, are there no sort of, you know, I guess like low salary non-essential

workers or essential workers that are in this space? We'll find out all this stuff. We don't, we don't know all this, you know, that we're dealing with people primarily that are engineers that have been put into possession of some of the technology and asked to back engineer it that are working on, for example, this thing called, what's it called, prompt global strike is one of the programs, prompt global strike. It's in this company, radiant technology is the company, you know, and they've got offices, you know, right next to Wright Patterson Air Force Base out in the 10th District of Ohio.

And so they got the congressman from the 10th District of Ohio. There's just hair on fire trying to keep this from being made. public. And opposing the Disclosure Act, you know, doesn't want it to be passed because they want to keep a secret and get the patent on it. I see. I'm curious if you have any thoughts as far as like the U.S. space program, obviously we're familiar with Operation Paperclip, bringing, you know, infamous former Nazi aerospace scientists into the United States to build these programs. Do you believe that the U.S. space program was predicated on any of this type of technology? Do you think that existed in its own. No, because they're lighting rockets off. I mean, you know, they're like

Roman candles. They light to be rocket off and shoot it up in the air is totally crazy. They're spending hundreds of billions of dollars just as a cover operation, you know, to pretend that that's the state of their art in trying to get to the moon, you know, and they've got these other craft, you know, that they're working at back engineering that can, you know, move from one star system to another, you know, in a matter of seconds. But you're suggesting that they haven't successfully reverse engineered this. I don't believe they have. There's lots of discussion going on right now, and there are different sources that I'm

involved in getting to talk to, who have asserted that they have seen the craft functioning, that they've reverse engineered, that they have actual man-made mock-up craft that can perform some of these functions. And there are others who've, you know, drunk the whole Kool-Aid on that deal. and believe that we've got actually star-faring craft and that we have an entire division of the U.S. Space Force that are capable of star jumping. But I don't believe that's true.

I don't believe that's true. Are you familiar with Jack Parsons? Sure, I am. Do you believe that Jack Parsons' occult interests and his desire to understand sort of like the spiritual realm plays any role in his aerospace or rocket propulsion science? or do you think those two things exist independently? Actually, the more you know about this whole thing with the UFOs,

the more you might begin to suspect that they would overlap those areas. But I don't know to what degree he knew about it back then when they set up the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, et cetera, because lots of stuff at JPL was very nuts and bolts, kind of straight-ahead stuff. when you, you've got to know an awful lot about the UFO stuff before you start crossing into this domain. You know, you start out with the mental telepathy, the ability of the pilots of the craft to telepathically navigate the craft and that the craft being semi-sentient with the stem cells in their fiber optics, you know, and then you move on from there to other, capabilities that the beings have.

And then you know that the people that were involved in doing this research and investigation began discovering that because they realized that telepathy was true, that maybe some of these other psychic things are true. And one of the first things that they were most interested in was psychokinetics. They were trying to see people that people that were. could move things, you know, with their mind, just push the pen across the table, just with their mind, and that they realize that that's true. That's absolutely right.

There are people that can do that. And is this from sources to you or this disclosed document? I've seen it done. You've seen it done. Oh, yeah. By whom? Oh, yeah. Over the Chinese Social Sciences, Department of Social Sciences, Dr. Jen Jojing, you know,

that they've got videos of them doing it. You know, so human beings, human beings have the capacity to, some people have the capacity to do that. They can actually move things, you know, with just their mind. And, you know, you know that they've now got robots and stuff that they can, you can direct through telepathy to function. They can make little carts go around in a room and stuff like that and direct them psychically. We've got that technology. I mean, and they're working at it. partly because they've seen it done by the ETs,

and that they therefore know that they can do that. And they realize that the human beings latently have that capacity, so that once you get into knowing you got it, you know, they can really get into it. And so they're looking for people that are psychic. They've recruited people that are psychic to try to pilot the craft, you know, because the normal pilots that they have, if they take that helmet and put it on them

and try to get them to pilot the craft, it kind of fries their brain. And I don't want me to laugh, I mean, but it does that, you know, so we've lost pilots. I mean, we've spent millions of dollars training to fly these super, you know, F-18s, etc. And it just fries their brain,

and they're killed. And is this the reverse engineered craft? Or is this the actual craft that they used? Both. They're trying to, they're trying to transport some of the technology from the real craft. They're trying to figure out of manufacturing

and what they're doing is taking whole technology out of the longer and trying to put it in the other craft and see if they can make it work, you know. And so what they've done is they've said, look, we better stop doing this. We're, you know, running through a lot of well-trained and expensive pilots.

How do they die? Is it? It fries their brain. Like, they'll go, like, comatose? They just die. I mean, it just, like, like, you know, it fries parts of your brain, and the parts of your brain, and the parts

the brain run your heart, run your circulatory system, run your organs, and you die. You know, that's what happens. Wow. Yeah. So what they've done is they started looking for people who are psychic to begin with to get them to do it. And then they realize that young children tend to be more psychic when they're younger. And then the culture kind of trains it out of them, you know, attacks them for being weird or something's wrong with you, you know,

and that they untrained them to do this so that they were searching for kids and they were starting to recruit kids from the military bases. They would go into the schools on the military base and they would go into the families of intelligence officers and stuff to get their kids and test them

because they wanted to kind of keep it in-house so that they wouldn't leak out what they were doing. So they had this entire thing called the gate program of a recruit young psychic kids. And then they would, then they started going into some of the public schools actually looking for them. And they would offer them a position in the gate program.

They would go and meet with their parents and give them large grants to the parents to authorize them to take their child and bring them to one of these gate schools where they were going to give them special training and full scholarships to go to college and all of that. and that they were searching for the psychic kids. And where are these gate schools? Where are these what? The gate schools. One of them is at the base of the Grimond field in the southwest.

There's a place there where they, and they've actually recruited some of the parents pay them to come to the base and help cook food and take care of the kids. Wow. There's a whole program like these things going on. And these kids matriculate and then go to college? Yeah. And have you spoken with them? I've talked to the people who have spoken to them.

Wow. Yeah. And do these kids live normal lives of this? Do they retain their psychic abilities after the training? Some leave the program and don't want to be in it because they realize that it's kind of a weapons program, that they're actually training them to try to pilot these craft for military purposes, and they don't want to have any to do with it, you know. So there's a spectrum of support or opposition to this program.

But these things are going on right now. And we were trying to get Congress to get in place to oversee all this, you know, and set the rules and regulations. It's not because you can have great confidence that they're going to withstand being manipulated and coerced by the national security state. Because, you know, I mean, these senators and congressmen are just, you know, toadies, you know, to the national security state because they're afraid of them. They're afraid of the national security state people, you know, just like Frank Church,

who chaired the church committee, you know, his very next election, millions of dollars came pouring and mysteriously to his campaign against him, you know, up in Idaho, publicizing the fact that he supported the Equal Rights Amendment and that he supported registration of automatic weapons. And bingo, he was out just like that. You know, after three, you know, winning 70% of the votes, you know, in his other elections just got booted right out. Did the same thing to Dick Clark of Iowa, who was opposed the CIA court operations in Africa. Did the same thing to, to, was it in Indiana?

Anyway, the, I can I remember everything. Anyway, they will oust sitting senators. You lose your entire political career by going against this. national security state. I mean, they, they mount and deploy against members of the United States Senate in the House of Representatives the same criminal covert operations that they've been authorized or believe they've been authorized, or at least they've authorized themselves to engage in against foreign adversaries. And they just turn them on the people who oppose them. I mean, we warned them. I say we, the Civil Liberties community people warned them when they

were getting ready to pass the National Security Act of 1947. You know, as soon as in May of 1948, the National Security Council issued an executive order authorizing the CIA to engage in covert operations. I mean, themselves. They authorized themselves, basically, to do it. Right. And Congress has just acquiesced. Now, you made a comment before that one of these beings that your friend Oscar spoke to,

or listen to the correspondence of, said that they were sent by who we would call God. Yes. What are the implications of that? Oh, huge. Huge. What could that mean? Well, what you have to stand, Mark, is that the, right now,

we've got the James Webb Telescope is up, right? If you had the Hubble up, we had the Max Planck up. We've got these space-borne observatories that are in the process of identifying these exoplanets now. I mean, just it's only the last 25 years that the scientific community even acknowledged that there were planets anywhere outside of our solar system. You've got to understand where we're at in history here.

Okay? So, I mean, this is pretty stunning. So the bottom line is that what's happening is we're entering into an age now where we now recognize that there are other planets. We now, most of the people in the scientific community acknowledge that there's clearly, life elsewhere in the universe.

There's obviously very intelligent and highly technologically developed life elsewhere in the universe. And so what the Webb Telescope is doing right now is trying to find the exterior boundaries of the actual material universe. You've actually seen the graphic, the pictures of the universe, what it looks like. It's like this big toroidal, you know,

with a big funnel of energy light going up through the middle of it. There's famous pictures of it. the radiation field of the, and so that, in that our material universe, they believe to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, 13.8 billion years old. Our star is 4.7 billion years old. Our planet Earth is 3.5 billion years old. Okay. So our species, is only like a billion years old, or 300 billion years old. Okay? So the bottom line is what that means is they've now discovered other galaxies out toward the edges of the physical universe that are 3.5, 13.5 billion years old, the galaxy itself, okay?

which means that there are star systems and planets and stuff inside that galaxy that could be as much as eight, nine billion years older than we are. Okay. And so that they've had all that time, even to raise up an entire species and blow themselves to smithereens with their version of nuclear weapons and still come back and still, you know, still be billions of years in advance of us, okay? So what they're doing is they're exploring at the very edges of this reality. So the question that arises is, okay, so we find the exterior perimeters of the expansion of all the mass and energy that make up our physical universe. And so you get to the boundaries of that and you say, what's on the other side of that? Okay, what's there?

You know, and you have this entire postulate that it could be an absolutely infinite and completely eternal, the sea of completely undifferentiated consciousness that actually unfolded into being the original discontinuity that through a process of mitosis just replicated itself and replicated itself to the point of generating all of the inchoate quantum fields

that actually go into making up every single ultimately irreducible integer of matter in the entire universe. You know, you take, you know, these, you know, the number of periodic elements that we've got in the periodic table, and you, you resists down to one atom of that particular element,

and you've got so many protons and neutrons and so many electrons, right? And you break them up. You can break up, we know we can break the atom now, and you break it down into its constituent elements. Because every single one of the atoms of every single element in the periodic table is decaying at its rate of atomic breakdown. That's one of the major signatures of them. There's a certain rate of atomic breakdown, and it breaks down into its component elements.

And then each of those elements has its own half-life, and they will break down, and those will break down. And so every single one of the atoms of matter in the universe, the different elements are breaking down. They're disintegrating, all right? And they disintegrate down into their neutrons and protons and electrons. And what we've discovered is that you can accelerate these particles and smash them together and they'll break down further. And so that you can break down a neutron or a proton or an electron down into muons and leptons

and that you can go down an entire array of these things until you get down. to the absolute minimal thing like around the leptons, and you smash two of these together, and they disappear completely. There's no material manifestation of them at all, except that there is, in fact, an inchoate quantum field that remains there, and it will flash right back into a material manifestation in the next 10 billionth of a microsecond, into either a wave of energy or a particle of mass.

and then it'll flash right out of existence again, out of material existence, right? And then it'll flash back into a wave of energy or particle mass and blank out of material existence again. And it does that in a sequence that is completely unpredictable. They've monitored it and monitored it, trying to figure out if they can figure out what the pattern is, pursuant to which it chooses to manifest as a wave of energy or particle mass.

Couldn't figure out how to... unless, unless you direct human intention. The observer effect. To it. And if you direct human intention to it, you can affect to a statistically significant degree which of the two things it's going to manifest as. So what's as done is this is knocked completely into a cocked hat,

the Newtonian, Cartesian, radical materialist worldview. And yet they're still teaching it in high schools. This is partially the double-slit experiment you're describing, that the observer can actually change whether or not this exists as a wave or as a packet as a photon. And what they realize is that the entire material universe is made up of these inchoate quantum fields, which are in the next one trillionth of a microsecond manifesting as either a particle of mass or as a wave of energy. and that there is a decision being made to collapse that wave function where there's still a wave frequency down into a particular manifestation

and that if there is adequate intention directed to the next 10 billionth of a microsecond of it manifesting in a particular choice of all the different options of reactions of reality in the next 10th billionth of a microsecond, that you're going to actually control reality itself with directed intention. And they know this, okay, that they have figured this out because they've had another nine billion years to investigate the stuff that we are all knocking on the door of right now. Okay? And so that that means that they can, in fact, say, okay,

here's all of the different myriad realities in the next 10 billionth of a microsecond, one of which has our starcraft being in the Milky Way galaxy instead of here, where we are. And they've discovered some kind of technology that's called psionic assist that can ramp up the psychic capacities

of a sentient being into the point where they can actually cause the double-slit experiment to have it condense into this reality instead of this previous reality. And so that you've got a starship in a particular star system in our galaxy, and they project the reality out of the tens of billions of alternative realities that exist in the other dimension. And they can bring it into material manifestation in our,

own solar system. So these extraterrestrials, potentially by using psychic intention, can basically manipulate our reality. And their reality, the reality itself, so that they can transport a craft from a point in the galaxy, 50 billion light years away, to manifest right inside our own solar system. Because it's the double slit experiment. Now, why would they do that? Like if their intention, hypothetically, is to prevent nuclear war or to advocate for

environmentalism or whatever the people have speculated that the intention for these beings to be here is, why would they manifest reality to move craft rather than to manifest reality to make it such that Oppenheimer doesn't develop this nuclear capability? Because that is a much more complex thing in the midst of the flow of people engaging in particular actions and making particular decisions and any given one time. The things that you would have to alter, the number of things you'd have to alter in order to have that happen are so multifarious at that point. But what they do is it appears that what they're doing is they're obviously coming

and going from our planet, right? And they're collecting, you know, flora and fauna. They've been witnessed hundreds of different people have seen them, you know, collecting samples and stuff, you know. So they're collecting flora and fauna, and they're collecting. genetic material, including human genetic material, right? And so that they could be conceivably, you know, attempting to bring these genetic materials to other planets that have not yet been able to gestate life, but they're capable of

sustaining life. And so that they could be seeding the universe of planets to bring life to other planets. And therefore, if we have a total thermonuclear war, that what we're going to do is totally screw this up. We're going to totally annihilate all of the living beings on our planet. And we're going to totally mutate all of the genetic material, you know, over what? Over fighting over who's going to have continued privileged access to the strategic raw materials in a given part of the world so that they can promote their corporations, you know? I mean, it's a lack of proper perspective at a minimum, okay,

that to be engaged in these kind of short-sighted things. I mean, it's like two guys who have no higher consciousness and they'd be in a bar, and one guy thinks that he looked at the other guy's girl's butt, you know, and so he's going to get into a fist fight with him. That's just real low consciousness. Right. And low consciousness is the inability to perceive the larger context

in which you're functioning. You know, this is absurd to do things like that. You know, it's observed but only to the extent to which is completely inconsistent with reality. And if you don't know what the rest of reality is, you don't know that you're acting in a way that's completely disharmonious to reality itself. And so that's why I've always thought

that the more people could know about, you know, what's really going on in the galaxy, And in our universe, the less likely we are to be engaged in such bizarre, short-term, uninformed, ignorant, fear-generated activity against each other. So they have a specific interest potentially in keeping us from having a thermal nuclear war. Okay? And they've shut off our nuclear missiles. They've shut off our nuclear aircraft carriers.

they completely shut down entire carrier groups, leaving them completely helpless out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. You know, no propulsion, no energy, no communication capacity. You know, an entire carrier group. It's just to say, look, then we can do this, but you guys ought to smarten up, you know, you ought to try to avoid doing this, you know. And so the same thing is true. They say over and over again, you've got to stop polluting your planet.

You keep on pouring all these chemicals, and stuff into your rivers and into your lakes and pumping all this crap up into the atmosphere, you're ruining your entire climate system, you know, you ought to stop doing this. And so people say, you know, why don't they just do it? Why don't they just start? And it reminds me that I remember that Lou Alessandro

and I had just come from one of the meetings with the Inspector General in the Defense Department, right? And we went to this little restaurant that was closed, but Lou or somebody knew who the people were, so we were all alone. And there were some other guys that were from A-TIP, some of the staff that were there. And we were sitting at the table. And one of the guys said, you know, why don't they just come down and, you know, stop the people from doing these awful things? And I said, you know, really, you got to remember, there's a famous story about this little boy who loved butterflies.

And he collected all kinds of different butterflies. and he had out in his backyard, he had this great big mesh net with all the butterflies flying around inside it and stuff, and he wanted to find a perfect specimen of a monarch butterfly. And he finally found this cocoon of a monarch butterfly, perfect cocoon.

He brings it back home, he puts it in this little box with cotton in it and he puts some little lights on it to keep it warm, and he's watching it, observing it, waiting for it kind of to go through this metamorphosis. And finally, it gets to the point where the butterfly is trying to break, out of the cocoon. And it's struggling and struggling against the cocoon, and it finally breaks

out of the cocoon, and it's struggling against this last silken thread of the cocoon. And it's pushing, and slapping its wings and flopping all the place, and the little boys washing it and washing, and he starts to feel really sorry for this butterfly. So he goes and he gets a little pair of scissors, and he snips the last little silken thread, and the butterfly comes loose. And it's an absolute perfect specimen of a monarch butterfly, except that it can never fly. Because it turns out that it was in struggling against that last silken thread that I had to develop the muscle structure and enabled it to fly. And so that's what's happening here, is that they're watching us, monitoring us,

waiting for us to develop, you know, the kind of muscle structure and the kind of moral fabric that we have to have, to be trusted. to come into a community with them. If we're allowed, if we can figure out the star jump technology, our guys that are presently in charge of this program are perfectly willing to mount up with nuclear weapons and just star jump right to their star system, to their planet. And say, let's get rid of these guys

as a potential threat against us, you know, or they're potentially going to interfere with us, you know, mining the asteroid fields or something, you know, that the level of consciousness that our people are at right now is so low that they're afraid of allowing us to come into the community. And so what they're doing is they're trying to cede all kinds of information to us, you know, bringing people aboard their craft, is like, let us tell you something. You know, you've got to do everything that you can do to try to get all these size to get rid of these nuclear weapons. This is totally crazy what you're doing to yourself, you know, showing those little kids at the aerial school, the kind of, you know, trees without leaves and deserts as far as you can see and stuff on our planet because of our not paying attention to protect their own climate system. You know, these are things that they're doing.

It's all by indirection in trying to seed, you know, ideas to us. I'm saying that this is what's going on. And what we're dealing with is people with extremely low, consciousness. Not that they're not smart. Some of the people in the intelligence community are extremely smart, you know, and people who are in the military are really pretty smart people, but that their perspective is so limited, you know, that they've got, they're so tunnel visioned about what their assignment is, you know, that they've been raised in this culture of believing. I talked to one of the fellows who said that, you know, well, you know, if there's this third world

country that has got some natural resource that is of real value to us, but we should go and take it. Because if we don't go take it, China will go take it. Or Russia will go take it. So we'll go take it first. I said, well, don't you understand that that's aggressive war. That's completely a violation of all the just war theories. No, no, it's not.

That's all just a bunch of language, you say. You know, they don't have any sense of moral constraint at all. all. And so that what we're trying to do is that I started working at this stuff from Jesuit headquarters, you know, that I was there as a candidate for the Jesuit priesthood. And I was, you know, in their social ministry office trying to figure out what the public policies were for all 15 of the major cabinet level offices in all eight of the major federal agencies. That's what I was doing. I was, you know, I studied it all at Harvard college and had all these, you know, Kissinger for foreign policy and had, you know,

had all these other, you know, Reesman for sociology and all that stuff. And went on to Harvard Law School. And, you know, so I said, you know, I'm, I'm prepared to help on this. I know how the government works. I know how the different departments are. I know what all the different committees are about. You know, let's start figuring out what policies we ought to have here. And one of the things that the Jesuit order was devoted to was the eliminate. from our planet of thermonuclear weapons. Because the superior general of the Jesuits was Pedro Arupe when I was there.

Pedro Arupe was a surgeon, a medical doctor, from Spain. He was from the Basque territory of Spain. He was a surgeon, a medical doctor. And he decided to become a Jesuit priest back in the 1930s in Spain. And he started preaching from the pulpit against Franco, saying that Franco was a fascist and an authoritarian, and just like Mussolini and Hitler, that these guys, it was a really bad idea here, that these guys have got.

This is going to come to the ruination of our whole country. And he began preaching about that. And it turns out that Mussolini had assigned a three-man team to go kill him. And one of the guys felt so bad about being ordered to go kill a priest that he went to, confession. And in the confessional, he said, Father, I got this real problem here. You know, I'm a patriot. I support Franco. You know, I've been instructed to go kill this priest, and I feel really terrible about it. And so he confessed it. And so the priest gets done with the confession. And he goes and talks to his bishop and says, I got a problem here. You know, I got this guy in the confessional that said he's assigned to kill this guy, Pedro Rupé.

You know, and so the bishop calls the provincial, the Jesuit provincial. It says, you know, your guy's getting set to be killed. You've got to get him out of here. So they take Pedro Arrupe and they put him in a monastery to hide him out. And it turns out that it's a Zen monastery. And so he ends up being in this Zen monastery throughout the duration of World War II until it turns out that it was in Hiroshima. So he was up in this monastery high in the mountains.

outside of the city of Hiroshima when we dropped the bomb on it. On August 6th of 1945, and it completely knocked down the entire monastery. It collapsed all the buildings and stuff, but he was far enough away that it didn't kill him, but it knocked the whole place in and it knocked him out. He regained consciousness, and he could see, all he could see in the records was the clock that was on the wall all stopped. And he said, he realized that regular time had stopped, that we had entered into a new era

where whatever this horrible weapon was, it spelled the potential doom of our entire species. And he climbed out of the rubble and organized all the other monks to go down into the city of Hiroshima and led the people out from under the mushroom cloud before it all came and fell down on everybody else and poisoned everybody.

And he led these people up into the mountains and attended to them as a medical doctor, surgeon, and then devoted himself to trying to get rid of nuclear weapons. So his postulate, his mission as a Jesuit, had become getting rid of nuclear missiles, right, and weapons. So he, all the way from 1945, all the way up to 1962, it was 20 years, whatever is, that he was working on that. And what happened is when John the 23rd, Pope John 23rd replaced

pious the 12th who had signed a concordat with the Nazis that when when John the 23rd decided he was going to convene Vatican 2 now we get to your mom and the folks right that when they he was going to convene Vatican 2 he wanted to have a committee on ecumenical relations with other religions and so he picked Pedro Rupert because he was Zen He was like a Zen Buddhist now. And so he brought him in to chair the committee on a communism or ecumenical relations. So he was in Rome in 1962 when the Superior General of the Jesuits died. And so John the 23rd nominated, suggested Pedro Rupa to be the new Superior General of the Jesuits.

Well, that's the kiss of death. You know, the Jesuit provincials will never pick a guy that the Pope picks. Because then he wouldn't have any independence at all as an order, right? And so there wasn't any chance they were going to pick him. But it turns out that the Secretary of State for Pius XI. The 12th was still alive in 1962, a Cardinal V.O. who had been a Vichy French Nazi, you know, supporter of the Vichy French, right? And so it was an aggressive advocate of signing the Concordat with the Nazis.

And so he ended up being so free. freaked out about the fact that Pedro Arrupe had been recommended by John 23rd to be the Superior General. He cabashed it. He said, I'm going to the conclave. So all 100 provincials from around the world were called into Rome, just like they do the Cardinals, to pick a new Pope. They brought in all 100 of the Jesuit provincials, and they were in conclave. And Cardinal VO violated all of the normal norms and went over to where the conclave was and started going around buttonholing. the different provincials saying,

you can't vote for this guy Areupé. He's a communist. He opposed Franco. So they were all saying, really? He opposed Franco. And they said, yeah, and they said, we better take another look at this guy. And so they chose him.

They chose Pedro Orupé to be the superior general of the Jesuits in 1962, right? Wow. And so the provincials, the hundred provincials, are still there in Rome, and they're going to go to the J-Zoo, which is the big international headquarters, the Jesuits is right next to the Basilica. And so they go in there to have this little choiré, you know,

with drinks and, you know, hors d'oeuvres and hang out and get to meet the guy, right? So they come in and, like, all the furniture is gone. And there's no cigarettes, there's no hors d'oeuvre, there's no drinks. All there are is 100 Zafu pillows sitting there in this big semicircle waiting for the guys to come in. And here's Pedro sitting. sitting in a Zen meditation waiting for him.

And they're all going, what is this all about? Who is this guy? You know, do we get another chance to vote for somebody else? You know? And so they finally all grumble and they take their shoes off and they sit down on these Lazzafu pillows.

And Pedro is there and he just opens his eyes up like this. And he says, I have seen the end times. He sat to him. I was there. He said, and we have got to do something about this.

You know, we are the order that was established in 1537 to reform this church. You know, this church was selling indulgences and, you know, it was gross and, you know, murdering people, everything, you know, with the Medici's and everything. You know, we've got to re-take up the task of reforming this church. So, you know, we've been spending the last hundred years hanging out in royal courts and, you know, waiting to speak the prophetic word into the ear of the, the king, you know, at the auspicious moment in, you know, paling around with all these rich people, you know, and we're not doing our job.

So he said, look, we're going to have to undertake some radical change in the church and in everything else here. He said, and this is now 1962, you know, right when they're getting set to do Vatican II. So he said, you know, we're going to have to take some dramatic steps to open the church up to get the laity to participate in. this to basically try to get them to understand that, you know, that the church back in, you know, in the, you know, the 1,000, you know, the first thousand years of the church, you know, the treaty of, you know, the various conclaves that they had, you know, that they inserted themselves, the priesthood inserted themselves right in between the infinite and the eternal and the laity. He said, you know, the lady, it's not your job.

It's not your job to try to experience God. It's not your job to try to experience the numinous experience. That we're in charge of that. You know, we'll handle this for you. You come, you know, you come to church every Sunday. You do what we tell you to do on the holy days of obligation. You know, you don't have to understand what we're saying in the mass. You know, we'll do it in Latin because it's got you guys all.

You really love the Latin. Oh, this is really mysterious. I don't know what the fuck you're saying, you know, but I don't care because it's really, really interesting. You know, and we'll, you know, blow smoke on you and we'll ring the bells. We'll do all these kind of things. It's like neurolinguistic programming, you know, that we'll get you into this kind of state of euphoria where you're open to listening to us, you know, and they're saying that's the best we can figure out what to do because, you know, 99.9% of all the people are completely illiterate.

You know, they can't read anything. You know, they don't travel more than 50 miles away from the place where they were born. Right. You know, so what we're going to do is we're going to figure out this way of us, you know, going to monasteries and sitting and meditating and doing all this kind of stuff and developing these faculties, you know. And then we'll figure out how to tell you what to do. Well, how's that working for us? You know, how's that working for us?

Not well at all. You know, we're on the brink of totally destroying ourselves with thermonuclear war, you know, you know, that we got 10 million people dying of starvation every year. We've got people dying of diseases that we've known the cure for for 100 years. And while other people are, you know, buying yachts and having country homes and stuff. You know, this is not working. You know, we've got to do something about this. What we've got to do is we've got to devote ourselves to taking steps to disassemble the structural sources of injustice.

Not just in Western civilization, but in Eastern civilization as well. This whole violation of individual human rights and stuff in the Eastern, in the Eastern countries. You know, that's our job, okay? Most of you aren't capable of doing this, you said, you know, you smoke cigarettes, you drink alcohol all the time. He said, you know, half of you've got mistresses that totally compromise you. He said, so you may not be able to make it. But, you know, if you can, I'd love to have you help us in this. He said, but what I'm going to do is order you now all to have to start engaging in 40 days of complete silent retreats every single year, every single one of you. Okay? And for you to search your soul and to meditate and fast

and do the things, the things that we know that are helpful in developing your spiritual consciousness, you know, not smoking cigarettes and drinking whiskey and carousing with rich people and, you know, nights of Columbus and, you know, nights of Malta and all these things that you guys are doing, you know, you got to do this. He said, and so that I'll call you back. He said, but I may have to replace a bunch of you. This is 1962. This is the time period when 1962, later

on, October, is the Cuban missile crisis. Right? Where Kennedy had, in 1960, in April, after the Bay of Pigs fiasco, had

promised Nick Kitty Crucef that Kennedy would stop the raids and stuff. that were going on down against Cuba, that were all being run by Richard Nixon under Eisenhower. He was the vice president under Eisenhower from 1952 to 1960. He ran the 54-12 committee that ran all covert operations pursuant to the National Security Act of 1947, right?

Okay. And so that Kennedy promised that he would stop all those attacks, and he just lied to Khrushchev. And he just changed it from Operation 40 to Operation Mungoose. and just continued the operations. And so, so Crucchev says, screw you,

I'm putting missiles into Cuba. And Fidel teams up with that. Okay, so he starts sending missiles in to protect this island against, you know, overthrow by the United States military, blah, blah,

you know, and gets a foothold in Western civilization. And, and so we have the whole Cuban missile crisis, right? We come to within like a minute and a half

of having a total thermonuclear war. You know, and we know all the details about that now. We know that Curtis LeMay, who was the head of the chief of staff of the United States Air Force, wanted to have a thermonuclear exchange with Russia. He was convinced that we would only lose 40 million people, but we would wait for them out. You know, we were vastly superior to them.

We'd wipe them out, and we could come back from losing 40 million people. Russia had come back from losing 20 million people in the war. And that was Curris LeMay. And so he actually gave the order without any presidential authorization to go to DefCom 2, without any authorization of the president at all. And he did it in the open. Wow. So that all the Russians would hear him and went to Defcom 2 and ordered the U2 flight over Russia, which was going to do all the final retargeting of all the missiles, okay, to try to instigate a nuclear war. And Kennedy found out about this, and they finally stopped it.

you know, but like a minute and a half short of Russia having to launch their missiles. All right. And so Kennedy and Khrushchev were so completely traumatized. This is 1962. This is right when Pedro Ruppe comes in. This is when John the 23rd is the Pope, right? And so what Kennedy and Khrushchev start doing is they start exchanging a series of completely confidential letters to each other. And they have this guy with Norman Cousins, carries them back.

back and forth, 18 letters back and forth and back and forth, not authorized by the CIA, not cleared by the State Department, not even informing them that it was going on. And the two of them decide that what they're going to do is they're going to exercise their respective executive powers to start disassembling the nuclear warheads of the entire arsenals of the Soviet Union and the United States and destroying them, not putting them on a shelf

so they could just be put back on in 40. hours, you know, but just destroy them. Okay. And all of that's going on. And what Kennedy decides is that what he's going to do is to make up for the lack of massive spending on this hugely expensive nuclear weapons program in the United States and in Russia. They're going to have the economic stimulus of having a joint space program. That what they're going to do is have a joint Soviet United States space program exploring the other star systems. Okay. Okay, and what he does is on June 5th of 1963, he sends an order to John McCone, who is the new CIA director, ordering him to brief Kennedy on all the UFO stuff. He knows it's there. He knows that he hasn't been briefed on it. He wants to have the information because he's going to share it with Khrushchev, saying if we're going to have a joint space program, I want you to know what it is we know, because we're going to have.

going to encounter these beings and we want to get you to know about this. So he notifies John McCone that he wants to get the briefing on this. McCone tells the other guys in the CIA Bissell and Angleton and the others, they go right straight to Alan Dulles. And even though Dulles had been fired back in December after the Cuban Missile Crisis, humiliated by Kennedy. Dulles has never left, never left Washington. He's got the big townhouse over in Georgetown functionally running the CIA because he's

legal counsel for Brown Brothers Harriman. Brown Brothers Harriman is the one that's made up of all of those private investors, which are the DuPonts, the Rockefellers, the heromans, the people who own the steel industry, they own the railroads, they own the agribusiness corporates. They're the robber barons, right? And they've all come together in this Brown Brothers Harriman operation that they've got, right? and at the end of World War I that when the Bolsheviks

overthrew Tsar Nicholas the second, right? And threw him out and established the Bolshevik government, the Secretary of State, Robert Lansing, orders this military expedition into Russia to try to kill the Russian revolution in the cradle, right? And it turns out that Robert Lansing

is the son-in-law of the war. of John W. Foster, who was the Secretary of State under William Henry Harrison, who had overthrown the Hawaiian Islands, was the one that initiated this huge age of American imperialism. It's called that in high school civics. Yeah. Right? And it started to set the stage for the 1898 Spanish-American War to overthrow Cuba and all that. And his two grandsons, John W. Foster, are John Foster Dulles and Alan Dulles.

both of whom were lawyers in Sullivan and Cromwell, which is legal counsel for Brown Brothers Harriman. So what happens when Dulles finds out about this plan to talk to Khrushchev? Dulles, Greenlights, the assassination team, that have been put together by Richard Nixon back in 1960 to kill Fidel Castro to kill the president because he's a traitor. He's having completely secret negotiations with Khrushchev

and has decided he's going to disassemble the nuclear warheads of our United States military arsenal. So that we can't wait a year for the next elections, you know, we're going to kill him. And you've already been trained to kill Castro, you know. You've been trained down in Wohawkah, Mexico on the ranch of, who was it? The guy owned a ranch down in Wauca, Clint Merchison Jr., his name is. And I know the guy that trained him. It's Carl Jenkins was the guy that trained them in triangular rifle fire.

to kill a moving target. And those are the guys that killed him. And Dulles says, the guy's a traitor. You want to kill him anyhow because he, after the Cuban Missile Crisis, shut down all the military bases, shut off all of that Operation 40,

which is now Mungoose. You know, so you guys have your own reason of wanting to kill him. Go ahead and kill him. And that's what they did. And then Kennedy gets killed and they set of the Warren Commission and who's in charge of that?

And Dulles is the main guy. Okay. So what I'm saying is that this, the request to get the information about the UFO stuff played a role in triggering the decision to kill him, not because he was asking for the UFO stuff, was because it revealed the fact that he was, as soon as he realized that something was going on,

they investigated and found out he was exchanging these letters with Khrushchev. And once he found out what the decision was that they were making in the letters, he said, that's it. You know, let's get this guy. He was the attempt to denuclearize and lose the American. He was going to eliminate the nuclear weapons. And they, in Brown Brothers Herriman, knew that they needed the nuclear weapons. Not against Russia, against China.

This is where the China lobby sits, is in Brown Brothers Heron. These are the ones who decided at the end of World War I that what they were going to do is they were going to turn their attention to developing the entire Pacific in all the Asian markets. for them, and they were going to put Germany in charge of Europe. And so what they did, Brown Brothers Harriman, the CEO of Brown Brothers Harriman, George Herbert Walker, steps down and retires, turns the CEO position over to Prescott Bush, his son-in-law. He goes and founds the Union Bank of New York. And it's capitalized by all these rich guys that are in Brown Brothers Harriman.

They capitalized the bank. They set up a foreign subsidiary up in the nether. called the Bank of Shipping and Commerce run by the Skyford-Thysen, they financed the construction of the international headquarters of the Third Reich to establish Germany as the bulwark against Bolshevism in Europe. And that's a true fact. Wow. That's where it came from, that whole operation,

because they believed in the same theory that Mussolini said, is that you utilize the instrumentalities of your government to serve as the interest of the private corporations and that they can, in fact, then maintain their continued privileged access to the strategic raw materials that are needed by their major corporations. What's up, people? We're going to take a break because we got new merch. That's right. It is the holiday season and the good folks over at Camp R&D have been cooking up in the lab. We got the Christmas sweaters with the aliens.

We got the Christmas sweaters with the conspiracy vibes. You already know. I mean, this one might be my favorite one. A Christmas tree full of it. of aliens full Christmas sweater energy. And then, of course, if you just want something simple, you know, you bust out the camp logo tea with the little Christmas lights on it.

Come on, bro. Get cute for Christmas. Okay, it is a holiday season, all right? We're celebrating the birth of the Savior, okay? And what better way to do it? Then it cop a couple threads for the person in your life that you know that loves a campsite that loves hanging with us every single week.

And right now we're running a promo through the holidays. That's right. Use the promo code, Christmas camp, for 15% off. I just made that up on the spot, but I think we can do it, right? I'll call some people. Christmas camp for 15% off.

Sure. 16% off. Whatever you say, Mark. Should we give them more? One more. 17% off people. I think this is going to work. I'm not positive.

We're going to see if we can do it. But I'll, yeah, check it out, guys. We got all the camp stuff going until the end of the year. Check it out. Thank you guys so much for support in the show. I love you all. God bless. and Merry Christmas.

How much do you think family bloodlines play a role in maintaining this corporate interest in these raw materials? Well, for the most part, for the most part, the shares of stock are passed down generationally.

But it's, primogenitor doesn't work that well. You know, I mean, they tried it in the royal families and you end up with these morons, you know, of the kids, or they're playboys

that don't have any kind of training or they don't care about what they're doing. You know, and they, of course, can't, have their daughters take over the, you know, they're so biased against women. And so the bottom line doesn't work that well. That's why the majestic group that Truman set up is they, each of them got to pick

their successor, but they weren't picking their eldest son. They were motivated by high mission and that they picked a person that they thought was the most competent possible person who could be carrying on this. extraordinarily secret program to be able to establish complete control over this technology. So they could develop the weapon system that would put them an entire two generations ahead of everybody else. Of being able to have a propulsion system to move their craft, you know, to, you know, to, you know, propel a nuclear payload from launch into the heart of Russia or China within two minutes. I see. So where does that leave us with God?

That leaves us with the fact that if you believe that it's possible that these extraterrestrial beings who may have had an additional eight or nine billion years more to investigate these issues that we ourselves have been dealing with, which has to do with the relationship of this consciousness that abides within us, that is conditioned, you know, by the place. where you're born, is conditioned by who your relatives are. You know, you've got genetic dispositions that are in you from your ancient ancestors. You have almost certainly astrological predilections. I mean, if you've ever talked to a person who is a really accomplished astrologer,

they'll sit right there and tell you, you know, all the description of who your wife is, you know, what your favorite colors are, you know, what your favorite pastimes are. You said to you, go, what the hell is this all about? You know, because you don't know any better, that there are just these kind of dispositions that you have. Because, I mean, everybody knows that the moon, for example, you know, attracts and sucks off hundreds of trillions of tons of water off to one side of the planet every single day. Because of the attraction of each unit of matter in the universe is attracted to every other one. And so that this attraction that it has for the water sucks it all off onto one side of the planet every day on the side of where the moon is. So you know that there are these tractor forces that are operating on the planet all the time.

It's just a fact question. It's a fact question whether during the gestation of yourself, you know, in the body that you're going to be inhabiting, the genetic material of 24 other chromosomes from your mother and 24 from your father joined together, form the original cell, and then it through mitosis generates additional cells until the blastula is developed. And then the embryo, the zygote, develops in the womb, in this pool of fluid to which they're exposed to all of these different tractors. forces. True, none of the doubt about it, you know, just like we got radio waves and stuff going through us here. You know, that there are tractor force. It's just a fact question whether that has some effect upon you. And the fact of the matter is the reason why it's so important is to know where you

were born, physically, where you were you were. It isn't where you were born so much. It's where you were gestated because you were then subjected for a whole nine months through the particular confluence of forces that your mother's womb was exposed to during all this period of time in which you were gestated. And so the question is, can that have any effect upon your dispositions? You know, and I'm just telling you, I can absolutely guarantee you, if you have a really accomplished, and they're not mind readers or anything. They just know what the data says about people that were born in this, the gestated in this

particular physical geospice in this particular time with the given configuration. And here's the kind of unreflecting dispositions that you'll have. But if you don't know it, you just think they're your own best ideas, you know, coming from your own mother wit. But it's not, you know, just like your genetic material, you know. That whole thing where your grandmother would say, you know, look at Mark. Look at him. He walks just like his grandfather.

Look at that. You see that? You know, and like some of the young women, they'll say, you see how she does that thing with her hair like that? It's just like her aunt used to do. Her grandmother used to do. And she never even met her. You know, they're just these things that you do that are unconscious. And they come up out of your cellular training.

You know, you have cellular memory from all these things. And so that we know that what we're trying to do in meditation is you're trying to do. to transcend in consciousness all of these kind of predispositions that are not subject to your own conscious decision. And as you elevate more and more and higher, higher consciousness, and you get into a place where you can actually get into the state of meditation where all you're doing is paying attention to your breathing in and breathing out and breathing in and breathing out. And you're sitting in a position where tens of thousands of other human beings,

down through the centuries have set in that exact same posture, same breathing and breathing out. And what you do is you discover that you get to a state of consciousness where you've transcended all of these other predilections and that you dwell in that place and that what happens is you start to discern things there. They had a set of experiments that were actually done at Downstate Medical Center back in 1965, I think it was, in that they brought together like an Indian faker, a Buddhist monk, a trappist monk, a bunch of others, excuse me, and they brought them all together and they had them get in this little booth they had. They had this booth with this computer on the top.

You know, had these thousands of little hair thin cilia that had hung down into the booth. booth that could discern minuscule voltage differentiation between one, one filament in the other, and they would have you get in. They say, here, each of you get in this little booth and do that, do that thing that you guys do, you know, and what happens is each and every one of them, they would get in the booth, they would either kneel down, squat down, sit down, they would get into a posture where their back was completely erect like this. And the second thing that they would do is they would start to chant.

They would start a prayer or a chant or some kind of mantra that they would start doing and that they would exhale all the air and then they'd inhale the air and then they'd and so they got doing that. And then they discovered that the third thing they discovered is that the amount of time they spent exhaling doing this chant or prayer and the time they spent inhaling, was virtually identical, even though they did entirely different prayers and different chants and stuff.

And then the fourth thing that they discovered is that the alpha waves in their brain would start becoming more and more pronounced because they had them in electrocephalograms, in electrocardiograms. They had them all hooked up to very scientific, this thing they were doing, right? And they discovered that the alpha waves

started increasing dramatically in their brain. And then the fifth thing they discovered is that the photoplasma around their body, this energy field around their body, started energizing. And it was kind of pulsing kind of lightly around their body. And that with the cilia that were hanging down all around them, they could actually monitor it at that time. That was the technology that they had available. And they could tell that the energy,

envelope that was being generated by your body, that the center of it was inside your body. It was inside your body below your heart and by your solar plexus inside your body, right? And then they discovered that this energy envelope around your body as you got deeper and deeper into the meditation would start to pulsate in direct sync with your heartbeat. and so that they had these people there chanting, breathing, electric field just pulsing like this and direct sync with their heartbeat. And what they concluded is that their body, the human body, functions like a crystal radio set. That it can actually pick up the bonding phenomenon that bonds every single ultimately irreducible

and it is of matter in the entire universe into unity with every other one. And that there's this entire unified field that bonds the whole universe together. And it has a very particular frequency, you know, with a particular amplitude and pitch, and that what it does is that you can actually directly experientially engage with this phenomenon and that it downloads information. And is that God? It's, no, no, this is just inside the material universe. This is just inside the material universe.

This is all of that voodoo shit. This is all that stuff of the, you know, that people can get psychic abilities. They can see the future. They can tell the past. There's a whole set of occult kind of things that people can do with this stuff, right? But the question that remains is that is there an other capacity, the human body has, that can actually go outside of this entire field, a unified field, and go outside the physical limitations of the material universe and experience the infinite

and eternal. And if you get into that complete state, it's a state where you are in complete union with the infinite and eternal. And that you're not troubled by any of the idiosyncrasies Is there any of the kind of sub-messaging that you're in this state of perfect quiescent being? You know? And then the question is, can you still move around okay? Can you get up and walk around? Can you conduct yourself? And this is the state that you're in when, in fact, you are in union with the infinite,

that it's the father, the source of all being, you know? you discover that you are indirect union with this. It doesn't mean your God. What it means is that God is not a person. A localized being. Not like a homo sapien. So we don't have to worry about,

oh, you mean that God might be a reptile? You know, no, but he's not a homo sapien either, and it's not a he. You know, and it's not a noun. It's not a noun. It's a verb. It's an intransitive verb, non-transitive verb of being, simple being, okay, in that all of the efforts to thignify it, to nounify it, to genderize it, all this kind of stuff are all functions of our culture, of different cultures on the planet. Can Catholics attain this through prayer?

Well, not with authority from the church yet, because the church still is in that mindset of interposing itself between this experience. and the infinite and eternal, that they think that it's like sinful, it's like occult. It's, you know, you're defying the authority of the hierarchy of the church. Can Buddhists access it? Yes.

That's part of their, the Hindus and Buddhists and Catholic Trappist monks and nuns and stuff that actually do the meditation, Jesuits, that do the Ignatian spiritual exercises, You know, but that they've restricted it to people in the professed religious life. You know, they haven't, they haven't shared it with the laity. And so, you know, now they're starting, you know, something's going wrong here. I mean, they're losing the grip on everybody.

How do we know it's good? Pardon? How do we know that it's good? Because knowing more is always better, not allowing other people to keep secrets from you and manipulate you, you know, because they assume that you're not capable of making your own decisions about yourself, you know, is usually a bad idea. And it just coincidentally tends to iner to the benefit of those that are keeping the secret, you know, and they just say it just happens to be coincidental, you know, but it's not, you know. Now, that doesn't mean that the average Joe,

you know, that is driving a truck or something and doesn't pay any attention to anything but watching football, you know, all of a sudden you're going to plug him into the wall and he's going to have this experience and he's going to, you know, do anything much with it. But the fact of the matter is, this is the salvation dynamic. This is the salvation dynamic. What about the Garden of Eden? Garden of Eden is a metaphor. Clearly it's a metaphor that harkens all the way back into the primordial origins. You just read Tayhard. I mean, Tayhard de Chardin, writes about this at some length, you know, all about the phenomenon of man. You know, he's the one,

he's the Jesuit paleontologist that discovered Peking man, actually. And he said, look, I know how to do this, you know, let me tell you, you know, that you need to really understand that Jesus was displaying and actually said, you know, that you will do much greater things than I, eventually, you know, And do not pay so much attention of what it is I'm saying to you. It's what I am. Understand what I am. That Jesus was the demonstration out of time of where our human family is evolving. That we're evolving these kind of capacities.

The ability to lay hands on and heal people, to reestablish the electric balances in the system of the human body that are extraordinarily subtle, to levitate, walk on water. you know, transmute mat water into wine. The high sit-is can do this, you know. And all the church says, don't pay attention to that. Nothing to see here. Don't go look into all these other Sufis and Hindus and stuff like that.

Because Jesus is the only one. It's the only one. You know, and that's totally common to tribalism, you know? Now, when you say knowing more is always better, do you see any similarities with the Garden of Eden, that the serpent might appear to Adam and even say, oh, eat from this tree, you'll know more. It was very, that's a very interesting image

of what that is all about, of suggesting that you have to remain completely subservient to the, quote, will of God, and that this serpent, who is of the world is going to try to lure you into believing that just by getting more knowledge that you can be superior to God, That's true enough in itself.

It's clear that just a whole bunch of additional information, you know, isn't necessarily going to make you a saint. You know, there's an openness of the heart. There's an openness to love and the kind of unctuous, supportive, loving nature of the universe and of all reality that you have to open yourself to. And to share that type of joy, the good news, you know. with everyone. That's a calling that you have. But I don't think it's a proper thing to demonize or serpentize, if you will, you know, knowledge like it's the enemy of good or of innocence. You know, there's all

kinds of things of things of the Bible and say, here, you know, you have to go in and seize the land of Israel and crush the heads of babies with the stones and in to bury their women and kill them all, you know, you know, you go, excuse me, you know, I don't think so, you know, I mean, you can get carried away and suggest that I'm somehow unreligious, you know, if I don't think that's a good idea, you know, but so I don't, I'm not worried about that, about people saying, you know, oh, you're, you're not accepting literally the translation of the Bible in not taking it. it as a directive of things that you're supposed to do. But what people do is they tend to scan the entire writings,

not only the writings of the Bible, but the New Testament and the Gospels, and the so-called missing gospels, you know, of Thomas and the others. But I think that the war against the Gnostics, you know, inside the Catholic Church is perfectly understandable why they would do it. but, you know, that it's totally unsupportable, you know, the Gnostics are the people that were actually trying to strengthen this type of direct experience that people could have of

the numinous of the infinite and the eternal, you know. Now, you'll, you'll know them by their fruits as to whether or not that turns to them being really wonderful, decent people. but I think that the Gnostic writings that really come from the tablets, from Anorabi or whatever it was called, you know, that found the tablets, that those are all important additions to the scriptures. And Nagamadi. Yeah, the Nagamadi. You know, in the, you know, that the King James version of the Bible,

there are all kinds of scholarship about it now. You look at, there's a book, I should know what the name of it is, that tracks the entire process by means of which they compiled the King James version of the Bible and the things they excluded and the things that they rewrote and the things like that. You know, you shouldn't be surprised about it. You know, I mean, it's the way our human family is. But to have people that, you know, that lock onto that King James Version of the Bible and interpret it is absolutely totally literal, you know, into the point of demonizing anybody who doesn't, believe it. It's just a further example of kind of primitive tribalism, you know,

of segments of our human family. Do you think people have used these meditative abilities to download bad things or evil things? It's a really, it's clear that there are people who have been blessed

with capabilities, evolutionary qualities, that haven't had the kind of moral training that they should have and that they have begun, they have over the course of their youth into their adulthood, they've learned to kind of utilize those things for their own personal short-term benefit into the point where as grown-ups, they're into manipulating in utilizing this. And it actually finds some of its manifestation in these high, weird, evil, occult.

gatherings, you know, where they run into some of those kind of people that have got some of these kind of skills that are completely un morally moored. Yeah, yeah. So people can do that. People can use some of these kind of abilities for immoral activities. When Alistair Crowley summons lamb, this demon that he sort of sketches, what do you make of that? And can we pull an image up of that? Yeah. I think this, this,

uh, Alistair Crowley stuff and people playing around with these kind of skills is, uh, is, uh, dangerous stuff. It's, uh,

it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's always significant to me that in the 30s, I believe,

he summoned this entity that looks, I mean, stereotypically alien. Well, I'll, I'll, I'll, admit that it has that look.

I mean, their eyes are, not really the alien eyes, the kind of the huge head is big. I mean, that they have in common. But the alien beings have virtually no nose structure like that. And the eyes are very, very different. You know, they're much, much bigger than that. And they go all the way around to their temples, you know. But I see what is you're saying? I've never actually seen that picture. I've never paid that much. Oh, really?

As soon as I bumped into Crowley and realized, I'm not going there. I don't, I'm not particularly liking this guy. Right. You know, I don't think he's doing the right stuff. So I didn't really pursue that very much. I just gave a lecture at the Los Angeles Philosophical Society. And I was, well, I was in the green room waiting while all the crowd and stuff came in.

I kind of snuck out the back, went over to their little library that they had there. And they had one of the great big Alistair Crowley books, you know, about all the secrets and stuff like... Bellema? Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't even get it. They could offer it to me for free and I wouldn't take it. That's not a good idea. I mean, you don't want to exclude yourself from even knowing about any of it.

But I didn't, I don't mess with that stuff. Right. I'm curious about the Seth tapes. Have you ever heard of this? Yeah, yes. I've heard the Seth stuff. Do you think this is channeling some type of legitimate, spiritual practice?

Our instance is going to have to really research these things specifically. There are several of these channelers that are indicating that they're in direct communication with an extraterrestrial being. I think it's worth evaluating. I don't think that it's necessarily not true, but I don't credit any particular one of them. right now. But I've, I used to kid about, you know, people picking up messages on their molars. So I used to refer to it.

Yeah, this person's things that are picking up messages from Mars on their molars. Yeah. You know, but that was being a little too flippant, you know, that I don't know, that to the, to the extent to which a person can stand face to face with and have telepathic communications, you know, that the indication is that telepathic communications are possible. over distances. So, you know, but I mean, these are major distances that they're talking about. They're talking about like a billion miles or something like that.

You know, I'm not certain yet. Right. What we're trying to do is we were trying to get past this stage one of getting the Congress to actually stand up to and try to assert its constitutional obligation to oversee the activities that are being undertaken by these executive branch agencies. that's what we were trying to do to begin with as a constitutionalist. You know, I'm disappointed that they haven't done it, that they haven't risen to the occasion, that they have either chickened out specifically in the face of some kind of coercion,

or that they've just, you know, failed to see the importance of what it is that we're talking about here. Right. Whatever it is, we're not going to take it lying down, you know, and so that we're continuing to mobilize the regular people to get people educated about the data that is here. We're trying to get more and more of the data and make it available. If the government, Congress, isn't going to do it, we'll do it ourselves. You know, I mean, that's what we're going to do. And we've proven in the past that we're perfectly capable doing these kind of things.

You know, I mean, everybody was sitting there wringing their hands over the contras and saying, oh, I think that maybe the administration is really giving them. them weapons. I said, really? Do you plan to do anything about it? You know, so we've done that. So we've, oh, that people think Karen Silkwood was murdered. Really? Are you going to do anything about it? Nope. And so we did. We found out who did it and we, you know, stopped, shut down the entire facility that she was run, that they were running. You know, so we've got experience in doing this. So we're quite confident that we're going to be able to figure out a lot of this information. Yeah, I've got a lot of the information already, you know, and I've absolutely refused to take a security clearance.

You know, no, thank you. You know, I'm not going to do it because I intend to tell the people, you know, basically everything that I find out, you know, and they can not tell me if they want to. That's fine. But that's not going to stop us from getting that. Hmm. Do you meditate on your personal life? Yes, yes. Have you had any of these experiences where you feel like you're in, like, direct contact? With the extra trust release, no. With the divine, with consciousness? No, I mean, I still am in a kind of a much more humble kind of perspective,

that I just realized that I know that I can get to a point of transcending kind of inclinations that I've got, the other normal Irish inclinations and tough football, nasty linebacker kind of vibes that I have, you know, that I've been able to kind of transcend many of those. I mean, it helps me like, if I, if I, I'm sitting doing the deposition of the Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan in North Carolina that's just gunned down, you know, six, you know, doctors who came down to try to set up a union to deal with brown lung, you know, that I've now avoided leaping across the table and grabbing him by the lapels and thrashing him, you know. So I've gotten, I'm approving,

improving a lot of step by step, you know, yeah, I'm working at it. If people want to support you on your mission to ultimately reach this disclosure and uncover this great secret, where can people find it? You go to the Internet and you go to New Paradigm Institute.org. And it easier, you can go to Romero. It's easier. Most people who can't spell New Paradigm. No, but P-A-R-A-D-I-G-M paradigm. But you go to the Romero Institute, R-O-M-E-R-M-E-R-M-R-M-E-R-M-E-R-N-E-U.

It's named after Archbishop Oscar Romero. who was assassinated down in El Salvador for trying to organize peasants to oppose the death squads down there. And so that, you know, we've been, earlier we were the Christic Institute, but George Bush Sr., when he got unelected in 1992, you know, issued a direct order to the Internal Revenue Service director to Yank our 501C3 tax-exempt charter. So we became the Romero Institute.

And we've been that 501C3 for the last since 1992, basically. You know, so now we've got the New Paradigm Institute, which is a wholly integrated project of the Romero Institute. So they can contact us at new paradigm institute.org. And the key that people want to sign up for is to become a member of Citizens for Disclosure. Now, citizens for disclosure is going to, to be working specifically on getting the Congress to force the executive branch to disclose what it is they've got.

We've already seen how feckless they can be on that. So that's not all we're going to be doing. You know, we're not going to stop doing that because we believe in strengthening the constitutional structures of our government. But we're going to be moving to have direct activity, you know, reaching out to the E.T. people themselves, you know, through these CE5 activities and establishing contact with them, having diplomatic relations with them, you know, no matter what the government says. Well, Danny, thank you so much for your time today.

Generally, this has been fascinating in every which way, and I could speak with you for another five hours. And I hope you do come back and we can chat more. Sure. No, I'd be happy to do that. This is wonderful. I really appreciate it. Everyone go check out New Paradigm Institute, Romero.

And I look forward to chatting with you again. Terrific. Thank you, brother.